May 26, 2020 • 38 mins
Doug discussed the new audio of Michael Jordan admitting he kept Isiah Thomas off The Dream Team and why this changes nothing about the way Doug views MJ. Doug talks to FOX Sports CFB analyst Reggie Bush to clarify his comments about paying college athletes. Plus, NBA Insider Chris Mannix joins the show to discuss the NBA’s plan to finish the 2020 season.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gotli Show on Fox Sports Radio. There
are some dream Team tapes out there now. Full disclosure,
we have a podcast on I Heart Radio and you
can listen to our show e CaAl, list to Colin Show,
any of our Fox Sports Radio shows. We are in
fact the same company. I know. It's really it's confusing
(00:42):
to my children. They're like, but I thought your Fox,
like were I Heart and we're Premier? Wait what Yes,
it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is
we have the best content, right, you know I got yet,
Seacresty got Bones, you know you got You've got some
of the others shows that are on Premier that maybe
(01:05):
you like, maybe you don't like the biggest names in
audio are all right here and our I Heart Radio.
We have a podcast out now called the Dream Team Tapes. Now.
Jack McCallum is a an award winning author. He worked
for Sports Illustrated who wrote national best sellers. He joined
me on my All Ball podcast and he's the he
(01:27):
he has these tapes and he we created a several
parts series. How many parts do you know? I mean
the is it ten parts as well? Not eight? Eight
parts series? Well, how we got to eight? I don't know.
I just know that Jack has an eight part series
which is available on your I Heart radio app you
want to download him. And it's never before heard conversations
with Dream Team members during the Summer Olympics. What's come
(01:53):
out of it. Let's come out of it is Michael
Jordan's on tape, his out admission that he didn't want
Isaiah on the Dream Team. Here's Jack McCollum, this is
on my podcast discussing it. No matter what you heard,
there was never much of a chance for Isaiah Thomas
(02:15):
to make the Dream Team for this reason, mainly Michael
Jordan's did not want him. I wrote that back because
a source close to the situation, no, not Jordan himself,
told me that was the case. But Jordan's reaction to
the question did you keep Isaiah off the team was
either angry no, dismissive no Isaiah questions please, or coy Hey.
(02:40):
I didn't pick the team. So when I went to
interview Jordan for the Dream Team book in two thousand eleven,
I wondered how I would nudge conversation over to Isaiah Thomas.
But against all odds, Jordan went there himself suddenly and
without warning and called me to ask me the book
rock throughout. I will have to play Thomas, he said.
(03:04):
You know what, Chuck, If you didn't hear, he said,
I don't want to play if Isaiah Thomas is on
the team. Wow, okay, But I heard something in there
that's completely different than just the full frontal kind of
(03:25):
brazen statement he plays. He's basically the opposite of Jimmy chitwould, right,
you guys, remember Jimmy Chitwood. Jimmy Chitwood is the star
player for for what was the high school? Why am I?
Why am I blanking on the name of the high school?
And Hoosiers Hickory High School who doesn't play and they're
getting ready to fire the coach, and he walks in.
(03:46):
He says, I got something to say they'd already taken
a vote as if the coach stays, Coach goes, I
think it's time for me to start playing ball. Everybody goes.
By time we got rid of that guy, right, and
he's like one more thing. Coach stays, I play, Coach goes,
I go. Ultimate baller moved. Jordan did the opposite. You
wanna have Isaiah Thomas? Fine, I ain't playing with Isaiah,
(04:08):
But that's not the part I heard. The prior was
Chuck Daily, head coach of the Pistons, head coach of
the Dream Team. Chuck Daily won two championships with Isaiah
Thomas as his point guard. Michael Jordan's says he was told, hey,
don't worry, Chuck doesn't want him either. Done. This is
(04:29):
from my All Ball podcast. This is when I asked
Jack McCallum, what role did Chuck play. Chuck Daily had
certain guys he wanted. They began with Jordan's. They went
to pitmen because of his defense. They went to Chris
Mullen because of his shooting. They went to David Robinson
because of his center athleticism. So there was this group
of guys that everybody wanted, probably Charles Barkley because of
(04:54):
his you know, he just was going to be unstoppable.
Isaiah was not in that group of guys, so he
never really had any traction. And part of the reason
that Jordan has always been pisked off when it's been
brought up was Okay, yeah, I said I didn't want him,
but nobody else, right, nobody else did. So here's the thing, Okay,
(05:18):
is it fair to say that Jordan's wasn't even close
to being honest during the Last Dance documentary in regards
to why Isaiah Thomas wasn't on the Dream Too. Yes. Right.
On the other hand, if the true defense of it
was not only did I not want him on the team,
Magic didn't want him, Bird didn't want him, and his
(05:41):
own coach, Chuck Daily didn't want him, I think you
end up doing far less harm in a calculating way
if you're not fully forthcoming. Because he didn't wipe his
hands of it, right, he didn't wash his hands of it.
What I believe he said was I was never asked
about Isaiah Thomas, right. I think that's what he said
(06:01):
in the documentary. I was never asked about Isaiah Thomas. Which, again,
if we listen to the tapes. The tapes do say,
don't say. He was asked about it, he just said, volunteered.
If Isaiah's playing, I ain't playing. And they said, don't worry.
Chuck Daily doesn't want him on the team. All right,
well that's done. We move on, ye Mike, And look,
(06:22):
maybe this is the Jordan defender in me, but it's
also the reality. He didn't have anyone who was the
rabbi in the room. He didn't have anyone sitting there
and going like, hey, either Isaiah's on this team or
I'm not playing. And it's interesting. It actually does circle
back to what Michael Jordan's said about his own way
(06:45):
of winning. Winning has a price? Right? Wasn't that the
quote winning has a price? Isn't that what Isaiah Thomas
is feeling right now that winning has a price? It does.
It has a price. And the way in which the
Pistons won, which was effective, which did intimidate many of
(07:06):
the bulls, which did kind of push around the league
and it became the bad boys. Hey, they embraced it,
and they all because of their success, those guys have
had a lifetime of success, right, Like this is interesting,
Isaiah Thomas didn't get to be on the Dream Team,
but he did just in spite of the fact he
(07:26):
had no real background on it. Get to run the
Toronto Raptors from their infancy, he did that. He had
no experience running a league. Get to run the c
b A. He did get another opportunity. He got the
opportunity be a head coach, even though he never coached before.
With the Indiana Pacers. He got another chance to run
an operation with the with the New York Knicks, he
was broadcasting the NBA Finals where Jordan's hit that last
(07:50):
shot like he has gotten a lifetime out of his
incredible career. But winning has a price, and the way
in which they one cost him friendships, relationships, and a
chance of immortality. To be on the most decorated, most
celebrated American Olympic team in the history of the sport.
(08:13):
Right at m j knew it alright like Michael Jordan
knew it. He knew what it meant, he knew how
it made people feel, he knew probably what it did
to his personal life at times. Winning did have a cost.
The price is not universal across the board. If you
want to know why Isaiah is not on the Dream Team.
(08:35):
It's not just Jordan's, it's Chuck Daily. When Chuck Daily coach,
you didn't say, hey, Isaia and playing I I'm coaching,
then you know he didn't have his back. When Magic Johnson,
who was supposedly his best friend, didn't have didn't go
to the go to the mattresses for him, then you
know it didn't have his back. Winning, as Michael Jordan's said,
(08:56):
has a price. Forrisaiah Thomas, the price was the Dream Team,
you know. For Michael Jordan, it was his privacy and
at times relationships with his teammates. Every winning has a price,
It's just the payment is different for different people in
(09:18):
different times. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
He's the one and only Reggie Bush. He's kind of
have to call in and join us here on Fox
Sports Radio. Reggie, how are you doing? Great? Dude? Great? Um? Okay,
(09:39):
So let me just here's what America knows. American knows.
You did an interview with Playboy magazine and they talked
about paying players, and you said, hey, and I'm like
kind of paraphrasing here, Hey, there's some pitfalls to it,
right in terms of people who are who who are
around like guys don't have financial literacy. They don't know
(10:00):
what to do with the money. And there's a very
dangerous downside to it. I think one of the quotes
was it's going to ruin some kids. Um, can you
paint the full context, because that's really it's about. It's
a conversation you're having with somebody interview. You give me
the full context of the conversation. Well, the context of
the conversation was, you know, now that we've gotten past
(10:22):
the first hurdle, right. The first hurdle was we've got
to allow college athletes to make money off their name,
image and likeness because the universities are hamstringing a lot
of people and a lot of families. Um. And it's
unfortunate because the universities that are making all the money
offer these kids then go and invest that money, right,
and they are able to invest that money into various
(10:44):
things like the stock market and all these other different
things that you know from them from their endowment funds
or or wherever you know, they put this money to
this fund, right, And and so the universities are investing
and using that money that they're making off kids, right.
And so now I think this should be the same
opportunities for kids as well. They should have the financial
(11:07):
literacy to be able to go out and to invest
their money for passive income, right, not just going out
and buying things, right like shoes and cars and clothes,
and teach them financial true financial literacy. Right. It's not
just about business, but it's about also understanding how understanding
how to save money through taxes. Right. We could spend
(11:28):
three or four hours on just that, right, Um, understanding
the difference between a liability and the asset um. Those
are things that eighteen year old kids don't think about, right,
Or nineteen year old kids don't think about what they're
in the belly of the beast, right. And the belly
of the beast is this college, this big college program
(11:49):
where there's lots of money that's being made off of
these kids, and there's lots of business that's happening, right,
And it's all because of the athletes, right. And so
I'm saying, give those athletes those same opportunities. Right, you're
already using the money you're making off of them. Give
them the same opportunities that you have to invest your
money into the market and to make money off of
(12:10):
that and make their money make money. I listen. I
agree that there are financial fitfalls. I totally agree with
you in terms of what college is teaching. I do
think that a lot of a lot of colleges are
morphing and evolving, and it's not as cut and dry
as it was when you and I were in school
in regards to you know, like, but there is a need.
(12:31):
I mean, there's always been a talk of a pre
professional sort of degree, right like I mean, or even
you know, some schools well out not to day my
freshman year they have freshman studies. I instead of taking
bio kem my freshman year, which is of no use
to me at all. Me and everybody else in that
classroom we should have been taking like we like financial literacy,
(12:53):
like you buy a house. I didn't know I had
to buy a house in order to learn how to
buy a house, Like I shouldn't be doing that. The
life insurance, the difference in life insurance, like do you
do you know what what term life is? And whole
life and how you using investment. Nobody knows these things
until unless you have money or you have a parent
who's that financially educated. Right, Um, And what happens with
(13:14):
a lot of these guys is and I think this
is the part you're getting to. They're just like, look,
I'm just a kid. I'm a football player, you know what,
I'm a basketball player. I'm just gonna trust this adult
because exactly right, and you have no idea what they're
gonna do with it, exactly you hit it right on
the head. The other thing I want to go back
to that you said is that the kids who you
(13:37):
know who are financially literate are the ones who their
parents we're financially literate. Right. But from of these kids,
right that go to these colleges and they get these scholarships,
most of them come from nothing, which means that their
parents come from nothing and they don't have the financial
(13:57):
literacy to help their kids out right because they didn't
do it right. Like for me, I didn't have another
superstar in my family, right, I didn't have somebody else
to show me how to be a superstar. I didn't
have somebody else to show me how to use millions
of dollars the right way. I had to learn it
on the fly. And you know, it's it's really right,
all right, and you don't you don't ask questions, right, someone,
(14:19):
let's give you something you don't don't ask questions. Look,
I had two parents who had combined three degrees, and
I wasn't really financially literate, but I do what you know,
and they went to college and I knew. I knew
some of it, but but not not not a ton
of it. But yeah, it's a I remember Mike Tyson said,
like you want, you want something really dangerous, give it
nineteen year all that's when he went the heavyweight chap.
Give an nineteen year old millions of dollars and nobody,
(14:40):
nobody looking out for him. You know, it's really okay. So, um,
I just full disclosure. I'm not to pay the player's guy,
among the other reasons because of it, just because I
just I think that the value there is a value
in education, right, And you pointed out, and I agree
with this, there's such a high percentage of kids a
the first ones in their family to go to college
(15:02):
that you do get something out of it. Now, what
I think colleges should do, like you said, is make
them financially literate. But I also think that if, if
this is a way in which players will stay in
school longer and finish out and become a finished product,
I think that I think colleges are doing a better
job of fulfilling the true ideals of what it's about.
(15:23):
Is that fair? Okay? Uh, if you just screet a
little bit, a little bit, let me let me let
me let me back you up on one thing, right,
Because you alluded to the education and how you're getting
something for that education, right, And the thing that school
teaches you. School teaches you how to be an employee.
School does not teach you how to be a boss
(15:44):
or a ceo. Right, You go to school, you get
an education, you go get a job and make a
honest living. You get a house, nice house, and you
drive a decent car. Right. But but I didn't learn
how to be a CEO or a boss or you know,
in my own company through school. I learned those fundamentals
from football, right and and and for most people, right,
(16:08):
like for for you, for example, Right, how much do
you remember from what you learned in your biochemistry class? Nothing?
But but I agree with you in basketball, like right,
like you play basketball, I learned everything I need to, though,
let me ask, Okay, that was my next question. How
much do you remember and how much more did you
take away from basketball? A lot? I will I'll say,
I'll say this, Okay, So I was when I went
(16:29):
to Oklahoma State as a marketing major, and I did
learn a ton from marketing. You know it was I
took for me what I thought was the perfect major
in that it was all it was all oral presentations,
right case studies. So you you learned why New Coke failed,
why the Chevy Nova failed, you know, things like this.
So I actually do remember a lot. I agree with you,
(16:51):
like I can tell you every play, every set, everything
that happened in every basketball that's your passion because it's
your passion. That's your Passionate about okay, because you know
what school can't teach you your passion. School gives you
the tools to sharpen for your passion, but school is
not gonna give you your passion. That passion has to
come from within, right And so I'm not saying that
(17:13):
education isn't worth anything. All I'm saying is, right now,
in the middle of a pandemic with thirty million people
who just filed for for unemployment. How much is that
education helping him right now? How much is that cowege
degree or whatever? Here's here, Here's you want the real answer. Okay,
So if you're a USC guy, which you are, and
you lose your job, your network of s C alums is,
(17:37):
who's gonna get you that job? And I but it's
about who you know. Colle aren't available to everybody, Yes
it is. You don't think to look Reggie, if you
didn't have the job at Fox. You don't think every
USC alum is gonna is gonna want to like Reggie
Bushes wants to be a wants to do medical sales.
Get him? Get him today. Because they set you down
(18:00):
with a doctor and they're like, let me give you
a perfect example. Let me give you a perfect example, Doug.
I tried to join bell Air Country. I'm not Bellaire.
Um Uh, what is it? Brentwood? I get you in
that if you want. I don't belong I do, remember,
but Brentwood Country they don't serve your kind. What's going on?
I'm gonna just give you an example, all right. I
(18:21):
had opportunity. I wanted to join. The head guy wanted
me there. All right, Now, you gotta go through this
process where lots of people have to make a decision
whether they want you in the club or not. There
are U s C people there. I got denied, right.
So what I'm saying is that just because you went somewhere,
just because you went to this school, doesn't mean you're
(18:41):
gonna get all these resources right now. They are, they are,
they are there for you. But I'm telling you, I
have a bunch of USC teammates right now that ain't
doing nothing. They ain't doing nothing at all. I I
got it. I'm gonna But I think USC does more
for you than most schools. I I just do. I think, like, look,
that's why I went to go to Dame and and
(19:03):
I yeah, you yeah, or you why they keep you
out of Brentwood. Get get Brentwood Country Club on the phone,
Like now you gotta be like, I'm just I understand.
I understanding just because of who I am, that I
automatically have this access or just because of where I
went automatically have all this actions. And that's not necessarily true,
I understand, but I think that's I do think there's
(19:25):
other parts of college that that that do teach you, right.
You You learn about budgeting your money with whatever your
scholarship check is, if you get some from home, if
you don't, if you get a pell if you don't, etcetera, etcetera.
You learn about your your time, managing your time, and
then you learn about kind of socially managing relationships. And
I think it's of value. Do I do? I think
it's the end all be all. No, but I do
(19:46):
believe you're better off going there, especially when no one
else in your family went there like that not going
to I'm not saying that going to college is a
waste of time. Going to college is not a waste
of time, right, But college is not going to teach
your passion. That's all I'm saying is that for how
many times do we hear about people who go to
college for certain things, Like you said biochemistry and what
(20:08):
are you doing with it now? Nothing? I went my
my freshman year in college, I went to school. I
was a pre med major, and then I realized that
was too much pressure for me to handle while playing football,
so I had to make a switch. So all I'm
saying is it's just that you can't. You can't just
you can't say just because somebody went to a school
that they're automatically guaranteed no this success. No, they're guaranteed
(20:30):
these resources. You gotta put out the work and for
those resources. And I know a ton of players went
to colleges who are broke right now and doing nothing
and miserable and you know all these things. You know
what I mean. Yes, But here's here's the here's here's
the counter to it. Okay, the team you played on,
the teams you played on that nearly one back to
(20:51):
back to back national championships, right, I can almost guarantee,
and I don't know this for a fact, but I
have a pretty good sense that those guys, if they
go in to interview for a job and you write
down on your resume USC football and the years in
which those years, they're gonna have a better shot, especially
if it's an SC guy than anybody else, because being
(21:15):
very specific to a team in a year, I'm just
I'm just using it. I'm using I'm using an example.
And the example is like SC dudes hire SC dudes
within reason, right, and and look, and that's it's it's
actually one of the problems we see with the Rooney rule, Right,
people hire people they know or they think they have
a relationship, correct. And I do think that the the
(21:41):
thing that we don't discuss enough, and you and I have.
I'm not saying you and I we I'm saying the
whole rest of the world. We all discussed college and
the pitfalls of the trappings of college, the wrong things
to college, the thing that college provides you among anything else.
And I never forget my my freshman year at Notre Dame,
I got to be in the school one class. There's
one class to by. The president of the university at
(22:01):
the time is Monk malloy. There's twelve advisors they recommend
one person. Somehow I got in this class and the
president pulled me aside. He said, you gotta get to
know these people. I was like, why. It's like those
people are going to be running Fortune five companies for
the next thirty years. We picked the best and the
brightest and we put them all in a room and like,
that's kind of what that campus is about. They want
(22:23):
to push you and you if you make friends, those
are the friends that run companies. And I think, yes,
he's similar in that way, obviously different and similar. But
again I never went up one of those classes. I
didn't get that class. Maybe you had that in order,
why did you do pre med? But now you want
to do premed for do you know how long it
takes to be? When I came out of high school,
I wanted to study medicine. I wanted to I wanted
(22:46):
to study in that field. That was something that was
very interesting to me. And that was something that I
did all the way up until I graduated from high school.
But then when I got to college, You're like, man,
I couldn't. I got you. Even though I still wanted
to do it, I couldn't juggle it because football is
a full time job, and then going to school is
a full time job, and then try to provide for
(23:06):
your family because a full time job. Hey, you know
what you should do. You should get on one of
those doctors shows, right, like the next Grayson Anatomy, like
the next Graze Anatomy, right where you get to do
all your doctor stuff and talk like a doctor and
act like a doctor. But you don't actually have to
go to medical school. You just gotta memorized lines, right,
None of the none of the none of the debt
from college. You don't have to be a resident and
(23:26):
work eighty hours a week and not sleep. That's where
to get your agent on the phone. As soon as
you hang up, I'll find the guy at brent would
who kept you out. And you get your agent on
the phone, and and and get on the next get
on the next graze and one of the next Grayson
anatomy is we want Reggie Bush to be a doctor. Okay,
not a p a Okay, not a nurse, Okay, a doctor.
There we go. Good catching up, Reggie. It's Reggie Bush,
(23:49):
of course. Uh is a college football analyst for Fox
Sports and a great dude. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three
pm Easter noon Pacific. Chris Mannock Jointsis from Sports Illustrated
NBA Insider, UM, all right, how close are we to
having an announcement on what they're gonna do? Well? I
think the NBA would like to be able to announce
(24:12):
something on Friday. Um. They have a call schedule with
the general managers on Thursday. There's the Board of Governors
virtual meeting on Friday, and I think at that point,
the league would like to have something to be able
to submit to kind of put forward to you know,
move this thing um in in a forward direction. So
(24:35):
the problem is, as we sit here and talk on Tuesday, uh,
there really isn't anything concrete yet. There are still ongoing
discussions about how many teams are going to be involved
in all this, how it's all gonna work, um, you know,
will there be some kind of playing tournament at the end.
It's it's a very fluid process. I mean I have
(24:57):
from different people, you know, every or that that suggests
something else is on the table. So you know, the
short answer is that they like to you know, move
this forward on Friday, but you know it's gonna take
a lot of work to get there. Michelle Roberts said
she wanted certainty. Players want certainty. What do they want
certainty about? Well, I mean, I think there's a number
(25:20):
of different things they want certainty about. They want to
know if they're going to play. I mean, there are
the bottom tier teams that you know, some would like
to play, others, as we've heard, Golden State kind of
stay publicly. They're they're good with kind of wrapping this
thing up Um, there are our teams, and you heard
Damian Lillard say what he said to Yahoo earlier. You know,
(25:41):
players want to know if they're coming back, is it
gonna be meaningful or are they just coming back to
satisfy uh television obligations. So that's a big part of this.
I mean, I think if there weren't these these obligations
to regional networks that that the NBA either has to
fill still now or deal with down the line, we
probably be closer to a sixteen team playoff and just
(26:02):
go from there. But you know, I don't think players
want to come back just to you know, be part
of this whole process of satisfying financial commitments. So I
mean that, And of course there's the certainty of the
safety protocols, which ended up himself, Doug. I don't think
it's been fully fleshed out. Yeah, look the Damian Lillard thing.
So for people who are just joining us, Damian Lillard said, look,
(26:24):
we don't have a chance to play in the playoffs.
I'm not gonna play. Um, which is interesting because I've
talked to a lot of NBA people are like, man,
that would suck if they let the let the the
Trailblazers have a shot because now they're healthy, there are
three and a half games out, whereas Memphis had had
played better for them for the season. What do you
think they end up doing with the playoff teams? They
go just playoff teams? Where do they go playing? You know,
(26:47):
it's there's a difference opinion on both sides. I wish
I could be more specific with this, but there's every
person I talked to offers a different assessment of what
they're hearing and what Adam Silver is going to do
now there there is there's a strong push amongst a
lot of people to at least give those Western Conference
(27:07):
teams a chance to find a way to give Sacramento,
Portland's and New Orleans a chance to get in all
those teams of three games back at that final spot
in the Western Conference, and it's to come back for
five or ten games at least to give them a
mathematical chance to to do it. So there's some momentum
to only having those teams brought back of the mixed
teams with some kind of mathematical chance to to make
(27:30):
a run of this. Uh pushed back into the mix.
But to your point, Portland's could be a different team.
I mean, right now the seventies sixers are going to
be a different team. Utah is a different team because
Boyon Bogdanovic has done for the year. I mean, there's
just a lot of of of different unknowns with all
this and variables that you know, if I think, and
(27:51):
this is just guessing at this point, Doug, Honestly, like
if I had to guess, at some point, the India's
gone throw up at hand and say, look, we're sorry.
We'll deal with the regional network stuff later. We'll deal
with the teams that might be piste off later. We're
going sixteen teams into the playoffs. We're gonna preserve each
round best of seven to try to give us a
ligitimate champion. And that's what we're gonna settle on. How
do they do the exhibition games? How do they do
(28:13):
the ramp up games? You can't go zero to no,
you can't. And you know, there's been some talk about
doing just scrimmages, you know, but inter squad scrimmages between teams, um,
you know, extended training camps, extended practices and maybe you know,
if you do bring certainly if you bring all thirty
teams back, you can have you know, five to ten
(28:33):
regular season games. But you're right, that's that's legitimate concern.
You can't just go from a training camp where guys
are quite literally shaking off the rust. And when we
think about it, there's gonna be as much time is
gonna pass between the stardust pandemic and when the league
comes back to roughly at the end of the finals
in mid June, for when the league would start in
(28:54):
mid October, and in between the normal set of circumstances,
you have players working out every day. I've got the
personal trainers, They're in gyms, they're they're improving their game,
they're improving their bodies. For the most part, these guys
are doing nothing and you know, a handful of them
are able to work. My comedy has got home gym
that looks like by high school, but like the rest
of them are doing, you know, basically what you and
(29:15):
I might be doing on a regular basis. So they've
got to they do have to find a way to
bridge that gap between you know, going through the most
and training camp and dropping players into the most competitive
atmosphere there is. Chris Mannix Sports Illustrated NBA inside of
joining us Doug Gotlip show here on Fox Sports Radio.
How important is it for Lebron to win this one?
I don't know. I mean this that I wrote about
(29:38):
this a little bit today. I mean, for all the
reasons we just kind of spoke of, you know, the
difference in teams and how this really isn't a continuation
of a season but an entirely new thing. There's gonna
be a large amount of people that do this season
as Masters season anyway, and and God knows that Lebron
wins it, We're gonna be discussing this, you know, ad
nauseum til the end of time, like especially if he
(30:00):
wins like one or two more and encroaches on that
Jordan Kobe territory and then it becomes just a cluster
bleep of discussion about you know, all this stuff. So
I don't know, I mean it's it certainly would be significant.
And you can argue that Lebron winning a championship in
this type of environment is an incredible accomplishment, one of
his most incredible accomplishments of all time. But there are
(30:23):
going to be allowed chorus of people that say, look
it shouldn't count. The NBA season wasn't what it was
um and God forbid somebody tests positive that's a major
player in the postseason. That shakes things up. It's just
I don't know that it moved the needle for him
all that much. Okay, So if a guy does test positive, like, okay,
you do you deal with it right? Like you don't
(30:45):
shut it down? If one guy test positive, do you no?
And no. Silver has made it clear and he's right
that there's no point in coming back if you if
that's the only solution to all this, I don't both
think that there's a solution that's been agreed up on
by the union and the league. Yet as far as
what to do, I mean, I think the NBA, from
from the people I talked to you would probably model
(31:08):
their protocols after what UFC allegedly did. You know, god
knows what they actually did what they said they did,
which is just pulled the fighter out, quarantine and hotel
and go on with the event. Now the NBA will
have to take more precautions. You have to test more
people and you know, make sure that player X didn't
affect everybody, particularly some of the you know, older members
(31:28):
of coaching staffs, which really has some people in the
NBA uh concerned. But you know, they might take a
two or three day break to get the testing out
of the way, but they're not going to shut it down.
They will find a way to move forward that allows
as minimal destruction as possible. Chris mannis joining us here
on the Dug Out Lip Show on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
so the Warriors, Um, the Warriors clearly don't want to play,
(31:53):
probably won't play, and they'll be in prime position to
get the number one overall pick, and they're gonna get
you know, both of their stars back next year, one
of whom Staff Courier and already come back and played.
Best guess is their plan to use that first pick
or they are they going to try and package it
with Wiggins and and make another bold move. I think
(32:14):
they'd like to package it, um, And Look, being honest,
I haven't checked in with anyone there in the last
few months. Is this is this is kind of played out,
But my sense all along was that they'd like to
package it and and get a player that fits the
timeline better. Now, it was curious, and I've said written
this before. It was very curious that they moved Russell
when they did, because I've always built that no matter
(32:35):
what you think about D'Angelo Russell, I thought he was
a better option to package than Andrew Wiggins is unless.
I mean, look, if they had the last month or
so to be able to rehabilitate Wiggins some and you know,
show that he was a better player outside of Minnesota
that he was inside, then okay. But I don't know
what the market is for Wiggins at this point, not
(32:56):
with that contract and the inefficiency and the obvious and
ability to be a number one guy. I just think, look,
I think they'll try to move it and then and
who knows who's going to be available when when the
gust settles on all this. But I just thought they
missed an opportunity by getting rid of Russell, because Russell
in that pick, to me, had much more value than
Wiggins in that pick. Yes, I think Wiggins is about fit.
(33:18):
I think they want to keep Wiggins. I think he's
about fit because they know he's great as as a
third best player. He's great as a best or second
best player, he's not and you need a guy that
embraces that role. He does make he does make uh
a lot, a lot of money. You know, I don't
know how. You don't know how you move that pick though,
jug Like, it's just financially it's hard, like if you
can't package it with another player, and you're not if
(33:39):
you're not going to move off one of your core
guys like I don't. It's just hard to find a
player that that fits that that salary structure, unless you're
getting a guy but the team wants to give up
on that still on a rookie deal. It's a very
good point. It's a very interesting point. Chris mannocks our
guest in the Dug Gotlip Show on Fox Sports Radio.
The Dream Team teams tapes are out, and now there's
(33:59):
tape of Michael Jordan's saying, I you know, Rod, I
told Rod Doran I wasn't gonna play. If Isaiah Thomas
plays here, you're actually take a list. And this is
Jack McCollum in the McCallum in the Dream Team, James.
No matter what you heard, there was never much of
a chance for Isaiah Thomas to make the Dream Team
for this reason, mainly Michael Jordan's did not want him.
(34:22):
I wrote that back in because a source close to
the situation. No, not Jordan himself told me that was
the case. But Jordan's reaction to the question did you
keep Isaiah off the team was either angry no, dismissive
no Isaiah questions please, or coy hey, I didn't pick
the team. So when I went to interview Jordan for
(34:44):
the Dream Team book in two thousand eleven, I wondered
how I would nudge conversation over to Isaiah Thomas. But
against all odds, Jordan went there himself suddenly and without warning,
and the book rock I will play Thomas, Chuck if
(35:09):
you didn't hear he said, I don't want to play
if Isaiah Thomas is on the team. Doesn't that I
mean to me? The bombshell is that his own coach,
Chuck Daily, didn't want him on the team. Yeah. I mean,
I've I've talked to Jack McCallum a Watt the last
couple of weeks about this specific topic because I've been
writing a little bit about it and he's been helping
(35:30):
me along. And you know, I mean, this is two
ways to look at this one. Why is Jordan just
brazenly lying on this documentary when he knows this audio
is probably out there, and even it wasn't, He's got
a pretty credible writer in Jack McCallum saying that he
did in the book and obviously writing it in the nineties.
I think the bigger, the bigger story is certainly a
(35:51):
combination of Chuck Daily and Jack McCloskey, who was, you know,
the general manager of the Pistons at the time and
allegedly this heavily influential member of the USA Basketball operational staff.
If the head coach of the team, um isn't going
to the math forum and the general manager of the
team isn't going to the math form And I've talked
to a number of people obviously wasn't covering it back then,
(36:11):
but I've talked to a number of people that were
around it back then. Um, neither one of those guys
went to the map for Issaiah Thomas. And you're right,
like Michael Jordan's saying, I'm not gonna play without Isaiah,
is you know almost with with Isaiah is almost to
be expected if Chuck Danley the head coach, and Jack McCloskey,
this influential member and his general manager are not going,
(36:31):
you know, hard after him and that to me is
as a bigger statement. And then you have Magic, who
was his best friend, and they had they had a
fall and they had they had a falling out as
well at that point in time, So you got you
got all of these issues as of why he was
really uh really really uh not on the team. Still
fascinating to look back. Nonetheless, do you think that it it?
I mean a lot of people have said this becomes
(36:53):
it's not really a documentary. How do you view it
now that we've had kind of a week to catch
our breath. I mean, it's it's entertainment. I mean, I it.
I had one general and book I'm not knocking it.
I thought the director did a fantastic job of storytelling.
I mean, it's it's great. I was riveted by it
for for ten hours. But I had one general manager
telling me it was like a movie. He had, you know,
a hero in Michael Jordan's a villain and Jerry Krauss
(37:14):
and in other pieces in between, and I think I
thought the depiction of Krause was just wrong. I mean,
I think there's you know and you know this like
but there's there's a generation of kids that are eighteen
to thirty that you know, probably watched that for the
first time and didn't know much about Jerry Krous because
he disappeared after the Bulls and thought the Cross was
something of a caretaker. He wasn't. I mean, he had
(37:36):
one of the best drafts and the NBA history that
came with a pipping and Harris Grant. He made the
Bill Cartwright trade. He ultimately pulled the trigger on Dennis Rodman.
I mean, go down the list. I mean, the guy
has some whifts for sure, and certainly if he had
just shut up, you know, a little bit more, his
his perception would have been a lot better. But I mean,
the guy was a Hall of Fame general manager for
a reason. And the depiction of him as kind of this,
(37:57):
you know, just you know, fumbling, bumbling, you know, poon
that that Jordan's you know, mocked on a regular bassis
I thought was pretty bad. Chris mannix Sports Illustrated follow
him on social media as well. Makes you the best man.
I hope you're well. Thanks so much. You got it.
Doug
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gotli Show on Fox Sports Radio. There
are some dream Team tapes out there now. Full disclosure,
we have a podcast on I Heart Radio and you
can listen to our show e CaAl, list to Colin Show,
any of our Fox Sports Radio shows. We are in
fact the same company. I know. It's really it's confusing
(00:42):
to my children. They're like, but I thought your Fox,
like were I Heart and we're Premier? Wait what Yes,
it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters is
we have the best content, right, you know I got yet,
Seacresty got Bones, you know you got You've got some
of the others shows that are on Premier that maybe
(01:05):
you like, maybe you don't like the biggest names in
audio are all right here and our I Heart Radio.
We have a podcast out now called the Dream Team Tapes. Now.
Jack McCallum is a an award winning author. He worked
for Sports Illustrated who wrote national best sellers. He joined
me on my All Ball podcast and he's the he
(01:27):
he has these tapes and he we created a several
parts series. How many parts do you know? I mean
the is it ten parts as well? Not eight? Eight
parts series? Well, how we got to eight? I don't know.
I just know that Jack has an eight part series
which is available on your I Heart radio app you
want to download him. And it's never before heard conversations
with Dream Team members during the Summer Olympics. What's come
(01:53):
out of it. Let's come out of it is Michael
Jordan's on tape, his out admission that he didn't want
Isaiah on the Dream Team. Here's Jack McCollum, this is
on my podcast discussing it. No matter what you heard,
there was never much of a chance for Isaiah Thomas
(02:15):
to make the Dream Team for this reason, mainly Michael
Jordan's did not want him. I wrote that back because
a source close to the situation, no, not Jordan himself,
told me that was the case. But Jordan's reaction to
the question did you keep Isaiah off the team was
either angry no, dismissive no Isaiah questions please, or coy Hey.
(02:40):
I didn't pick the team. So when I went to
interview Jordan for the Dream Team book in two thousand eleven,
I wondered how I would nudge conversation over to Isaiah Thomas.
But against all odds, Jordan went there himself suddenly and
without warning and called me to ask me the book
rock throughout. I will have to play Thomas, he said.
(03:04):
You know what, Chuck, If you didn't hear, he said,
I don't want to play if Isaiah Thomas is on
the team. Wow, okay, But I heard something in there
that's completely different than just the full frontal kind of
(03:25):
brazen statement he plays. He's basically the opposite of Jimmy chitwould, right,
you guys, remember Jimmy Chitwood. Jimmy Chitwood is the star
player for for what was the high school? Why am I?
Why am I blanking on the name of the high school?
And Hoosiers Hickory High School who doesn't play and they're
getting ready to fire the coach, and he walks in.
(03:46):
He says, I got something to say they'd already taken
a vote as if the coach stays, Coach goes, I
think it's time for me to start playing ball. Everybody goes.
By time we got rid of that guy, right, and
he's like one more thing. Coach stays, I play, Coach goes,
I go. Ultimate baller moved. Jordan did the opposite. You
wanna have Isaiah Thomas? Fine, I ain't playing with Isaiah,
(04:08):
But that's not the part I heard. The prior was
Chuck Daily, head coach of the Pistons, head coach of
the Dream Team. Chuck Daily won two championships with Isaiah
Thomas as his point guard. Michael Jordan's says he was told, hey,
don't worry, Chuck doesn't want him either. Done. This is
(04:29):
from my All Ball podcast. This is when I asked
Jack McCallum, what role did Chuck play. Chuck Daily had
certain guys he wanted. They began with Jordan's. They went
to pitmen because of his defense. They went to Chris
Mullen because of his shooting. They went to David Robinson
because of his center athleticism. So there was this group
of guys that everybody wanted, probably Charles Barkley because of
(04:54):
his you know, he just was going to be unstoppable.
Isaiah was not in that group of guys, so he
never really had any traction. And part of the reason
that Jordan has always been pisked off when it's been
brought up was Okay, yeah, I said I didn't want him,
but nobody else, right, nobody else did. So here's the thing, Okay,
(05:18):
is it fair to say that Jordan's wasn't even close
to being honest during the Last Dance documentary in regards
to why Isaiah Thomas wasn't on the Dream Too. Yes. Right.
On the other hand, if the true defense of it
was not only did I not want him on the team,
Magic didn't want him, Bird didn't want him, and his
(05:41):
own coach, Chuck Daily didn't want him, I think you
end up doing far less harm in a calculating way
if you're not fully forthcoming. Because he didn't wipe his
hands of it, right, he didn't wash his hands of it.
What I believe he said was I was never asked
about Isaiah Thomas, right. I think that's what he said
(06:01):
in the documentary. I was never asked about Isaiah Thomas. Which, again,
if we listen to the tapes. The tapes do say,
don't say. He was asked about it, he just said, volunteered.
If Isaiah's playing, I ain't playing. And they said, don't worry.
Chuck Daily doesn't want him on the team. All right,
well that's done. We move on, ye Mike, And look,
(06:22):
maybe this is the Jordan defender in me, but it's
also the reality. He didn't have anyone who was the
rabbi in the room. He didn't have anyone sitting there
and going like, hey, either Isaiah's on this team or
I'm not playing. And it's interesting. It actually does circle
back to what Michael Jordan's said about his own way
(06:45):
of winning. Winning has a price? Right? Wasn't that the
quote winning has a price? Isn't that what Isaiah Thomas
is feeling right now that winning has a price? It does.
It has a price. And the way in which the
Pistons won, which was effective, which did intimidate many of
(07:06):
the bulls, which did kind of push around the league
and it became the bad boys. Hey, they embraced it,
and they all because of their success, those guys have
had a lifetime of success, right, Like this is interesting,
Isaiah Thomas didn't get to be on the Dream Team,
but he did just in spite of the fact he
(07:26):
had no real background on it. Get to run the
Toronto Raptors from their infancy, he did that. He had
no experience running a league. Get to run the c
b A. He did get another opportunity. He got the
opportunity be a head coach, even though he never coached before.
With the Indiana Pacers. He got another chance to run
an operation with the with the New York Knicks, he
was broadcasting the NBA Finals where Jordan's hit that last
(07:50):
shot like he has gotten a lifetime out of his
incredible career. But winning has a price, and the way
in which they one cost him friendships, relationships, and a
chance of immortality. To be on the most decorated, most
celebrated American Olympic team in the history of the sport.
(08:13):
Right at m j knew it alright like Michael Jordan
knew it. He knew what it meant, he knew how
it made people feel, he knew probably what it did
to his personal life at times. Winning did have a cost.
The price is not universal across the board. If you
want to know why Isaiah is not on the Dream Team.
(08:35):
It's not just Jordan's, it's Chuck Daily. When Chuck Daily coach,
you didn't say, hey, Isaia and playing I I'm coaching,
then you know he didn't have his back. When Magic Johnson,
who was supposedly his best friend, didn't have didn't go
to the go to the mattresses for him, then you
know it didn't have his back. Winning, as Michael Jordan's said,
(08:56):
has a price. Forrisaiah Thomas, the price was the Dream Team,
you know. For Michael Jordan, it was his privacy and
at times relationships with his teammates. Every winning has a price,
It's just the payment is different for different people in
(09:18):
different times. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
He's the one and only Reggie Bush. He's kind of
have to call in and join us here on Fox
Sports Radio. Reggie, how are you doing? Great? Dude? Great? Um? Okay,
(09:39):
So let me just here's what America knows. American knows.
You did an interview with Playboy magazine and they talked
about paying players, and you said, hey, and I'm like
kind of paraphrasing here, Hey, there's some pitfalls to it,
right in terms of people who are who who are
around like guys don't have financial literacy. They don't know
(10:00):
what to do with the money. And there's a very
dangerous downside to it. I think one of the quotes
was it's going to ruin some kids. Um, can you
paint the full context, because that's really it's about. It's
a conversation you're having with somebody interview. You give me
the full context of the conversation. Well, the context of
the conversation was, you know, now that we've gotten past
(10:22):
the first hurdle, right. The first hurdle was we've got
to allow college athletes to make money off their name,
image and likeness because the universities are hamstringing a lot
of people and a lot of families. Um. And it's
unfortunate because the universities that are making all the money
offer these kids then go and invest that money, right,
and they are able to invest that money into various
(10:44):
things like the stock market and all these other different
things that you know from them from their endowment funds
or or wherever you know, they put this money to
this fund, right, And and so the universities are investing
and using that money that they're making off kids, right.
And so now I think this should be the same
opportunities for kids as well. They should have the financial
(11:07):
literacy to be able to go out and to invest
their money for passive income, right, not just going out
and buying things, right like shoes and cars and clothes,
and teach them financial true financial literacy. Right. It's not
just about business, but it's about also understanding how understanding
how to save money through taxes. Right. We could spend
(11:28):
three or four hours on just that, right, Um, understanding
the difference between a liability and the asset um. Those
are things that eighteen year old kids don't think about, right,
Or nineteen year old kids don't think about what they're
in the belly of the beast, right. And the belly
of the beast is this college, this big college program
(11:49):
where there's lots of money that's being made off of
these kids, and there's lots of business that's happening, right,
And it's all because of the athletes, right. And so
I'm saying, give those athletes those same opportunities. Right, you're
already using the money you're making off of them. Give
them the same opportunities that you have to invest your
money into the market and to make money off of
(12:10):
that and make their money make money. I listen. I
agree that there are financial fitfalls. I totally agree with
you in terms of what college is teaching. I do
think that a lot of a lot of colleges are
morphing and evolving, and it's not as cut and dry
as it was when you and I were in school
in regards to you know, like, but there is a need.
(12:31):
I mean, there's always been a talk of a pre
professional sort of degree, right like I mean, or even
you know, some schools well out not to day my
freshman year they have freshman studies. I instead of taking
bio kem my freshman year, which is of no use
to me at all. Me and everybody else in that
classroom we should have been taking like we like financial literacy,
(12:53):
like you buy a house. I didn't know I had
to buy a house in order to learn how to
buy a house, Like I shouldn't be doing that. The
life insurance, the difference in life insurance, like do you
do you know what what term life is? And whole
life and how you using investment. Nobody knows these things
until unless you have money or you have a parent
who's that financially educated. Right, Um, And what happens with
(13:14):
a lot of these guys is and I think this
is the part you're getting to. They're just like, look,
I'm just a kid. I'm a football player, you know what,
I'm a basketball player. I'm just gonna trust this adult
because exactly right, and you have no idea what they're
gonna do with it, exactly you hit it right on
the head. The other thing I want to go back
to that you said is that the kids who you
(13:37):
know who are financially literate are the ones who their
parents we're financially literate. Right. But from of these kids,
right that go to these colleges and they get these scholarships,
most of them come from nothing, which means that their
parents come from nothing and they don't have the financial
(13:57):
literacy to help their kids out right because they didn't
do it right. Like for me, I didn't have another
superstar in my family, right, I didn't have somebody else
to show me how to be a superstar. I didn't
have somebody else to show me how to use millions
of dollars the right way. I had to learn it
on the fly. And you know, it's it's really right,
all right, and you don't you don't ask questions, right, someone,
(14:19):
let's give you something you don't don't ask questions. Look,
I had two parents who had combined three degrees, and
I wasn't really financially literate, but I do what you know,
and they went to college and I knew. I knew
some of it, but but not not not a ton
of it. But yeah, it's a I remember Mike Tyson said,
like you want, you want something really dangerous, give it
nineteen year all that's when he went the heavyweight chap.
Give an nineteen year old millions of dollars and nobody,
(14:40):
nobody looking out for him. You know, it's really okay. So, um,
I just full disclosure. I'm not to pay the player's guy,
among the other reasons because of it, just because I
just I think that the value there is a value
in education, right, And you pointed out, and I agree
with this, there's such a high percentage of kids a
the first ones in their family to go to college
(15:02):
that you do get something out of it. Now, what
I think colleges should do, like you said, is make
them financially literate. But I also think that if, if
this is a way in which players will stay in
school longer and finish out and become a finished product,
I think that I think colleges are doing a better
job of fulfilling the true ideals of what it's about.
(15:23):
Is that fair? Okay? Uh, if you just screet a
little bit, a little bit, let me let me let
me let me back you up on one thing, right,
Because you alluded to the education and how you're getting
something for that education, right, And the thing that school
teaches you. School teaches you how to be an employee.
School does not teach you how to be a boss
(15:44):
or a ceo. Right, You go to school, you get
an education, you go get a job and make a
honest living. You get a house, nice house, and you
drive a decent car. Right. But but I didn't learn
how to be a CEO or a boss or you know,
in my own company through school. I learned those fundamentals
from football, right and and and for most people, right,
(16:08):
like for for you, for example, Right, how much do
you remember from what you learned in your biochemistry class? Nothing?
But but I agree with you in basketball, like right,
like you play basketball, I learned everything I need to, though,
let me ask, Okay, that was my next question. How
much do you remember and how much more did you
take away from basketball? A lot? I will I'll say,
I'll say this, Okay, So I was when I went
(16:29):
to Oklahoma State as a marketing major, and I did
learn a ton from marketing. You know it was I
took for me what I thought was the perfect major
in that it was all it was all oral presentations,
right case studies. So you you learned why New Coke failed,
why the Chevy Nova failed, you know, things like this.
So I actually do remember a lot. I agree with you,
(16:51):
like I can tell you every play, every set, everything
that happened in every basketball that's your passion because it's
your passion. That's your Passionate about okay, because you know
what school can't teach you your passion. School gives you
the tools to sharpen for your passion, but school is
not gonna give you your passion. That passion has to
come from within, right And so I'm not saying that
(17:13):
education isn't worth anything. All I'm saying is, right now,
in the middle of a pandemic with thirty million people
who just filed for for unemployment. How much is that
education helping him right now? How much is that cowege
degree or whatever? Here's here, Here's you want the real answer. Okay,
So if you're a USC guy, which you are, and
you lose your job, your network of s C alums is,
(17:37):
who's gonna get you that job? And I but it's
about who you know. Colle aren't available to everybody, Yes
it is. You don't think to look Reggie, if you
didn't have the job at Fox. You don't think every
USC alum is gonna is gonna want to like Reggie
Bushes wants to be a wants to do medical sales.
Get him? Get him today. Because they set you down
(18:00):
with a doctor and they're like, let me give you
a perfect example. Let me give you a perfect example, Doug.
I tried to join bell Air Country. I'm not Bellaire.
Um Uh, what is it? Brentwood? I get you in
that if you want. I don't belong I do, remember,
but Brentwood Country they don't serve your kind. What's going on?
I'm gonna just give you an example, all right. I
(18:21):
had opportunity. I wanted to join. The head guy wanted
me there. All right, Now, you gotta go through this
process where lots of people have to make a decision
whether they want you in the club or not. There
are U s C people there. I got denied, right.
So what I'm saying is that just because you went somewhere,
just because you went to this school, doesn't mean you're
(18:41):
gonna get all these resources right now. They are, they are,
they are there for you. But I'm telling you, I
have a bunch of USC teammates right now that ain't
doing nothing. They ain't doing nothing at all. I I
got it. I'm gonna But I think USC does more
for you than most schools. I I just do. I think, like, look,
that's why I went to go to Dame and and
(19:03):
I yeah, you yeah, or you why they keep you
out of Brentwood. Get get Brentwood Country Club on the phone,
Like now you gotta be like, I'm just I understand.
I understanding just because of who I am, that I
automatically have this access or just because of where I
went automatically have all this actions. And that's not necessarily true,
I understand, but I think that's I do think there's
(19:25):
other parts of college that that that do teach you, right.
You You learn about budgeting your money with whatever your
scholarship check is, if you get some from home, if
you don't, if you get a pell if you don't, etcetera, etcetera.
You learn about your your time, managing your time, and
then you learn about kind of socially managing relationships. And
I think it's of value. Do I do? I think
it's the end all be all. No, but I do
(19:46):
believe you're better off going there, especially when no one
else in your family went there like that not going
to I'm not saying that going to college is a
waste of time. Going to college is not a waste
of time, right, But college is not going to teach
your passion. That's all I'm saying is that for how
many times do we hear about people who go to
college for certain things, Like you said biochemistry and what
(20:08):
are you doing with it now? Nothing? I went my
my freshman year in college, I went to school. I
was a pre med major, and then I realized that
was too much pressure for me to handle while playing football,
so I had to make a switch. So all I'm
saying is it's just that you can't. You can't just
you can't say just because somebody went to a school
that they're automatically guaranteed no this success. No, they're guaranteed
(20:30):
these resources. You gotta put out the work and for
those resources. And I know a ton of players went
to colleges who are broke right now and doing nothing
and miserable and you know all these things. You know
what I mean. Yes, But here's here's the here's here's
the counter to it. Okay, the team you played on,
the teams you played on that nearly one back to
(20:51):
back to back national championships, right, I can almost guarantee,
and I don't know this for a fact, but I
have a pretty good sense that those guys, if they
go in to interview for a job and you write
down on your resume USC football and the years in
which those years, they're gonna have a better shot, especially
if it's an SC guy than anybody else, because being
(21:15):
very specific to a team in a year, I'm just
I'm just using it. I'm using I'm using an example.
And the example is like SC dudes hire SC dudes
within reason, right, and and look, and that's it's it's
actually one of the problems we see with the Rooney rule, Right,
people hire people they know or they think they have
a relationship, correct. And I do think that the the
(21:41):
thing that we don't discuss enough, and you and I have.
I'm not saying you and I we I'm saying the
whole rest of the world. We all discussed college and
the pitfalls of the trappings of college, the wrong things
to college, the thing that college provides you among anything else.
And I never forget my my freshman year at Notre Dame,
I got to be in the school one class. There's
one class to by. The president of the university at
(22:01):
the time is Monk malloy. There's twelve advisors they recommend
one person. Somehow I got in this class and the
president pulled me aside. He said, you gotta get to
know these people. I was like, why. It's like those
people are going to be running Fortune five companies for
the next thirty years. We picked the best and the
brightest and we put them all in a room and like,
that's kind of what that campus is about. They want
(22:23):
to push you and you if you make friends, those
are the friends that run companies. And I think, yes,
he's similar in that way, obviously different and similar. But
again I never went up one of those classes. I
didn't get that class. Maybe you had that in order,
why did you do pre med? But now you want
to do premed for do you know how long it
takes to be? When I came out of high school,
I wanted to study medicine. I wanted to I wanted
(22:46):
to study in that field. That was something that was
very interesting to me. And that was something that I
did all the way up until I graduated from high school.
But then when I got to college, You're like, man,
I couldn't. I got you. Even though I still wanted
to do it, I couldn't juggle it because football is
a full time job, and then going to school is
a full time job, and then try to provide for
(23:06):
your family because a full time job. Hey, you know
what you should do. You should get on one of
those doctors shows, right, like the next Grayson Anatomy, like
the next Graze Anatomy, right where you get to do
all your doctor stuff and talk like a doctor and
act like a doctor. But you don't actually have to
go to medical school. You just gotta memorized lines, right,
None of the none of the none of the debt
from college. You don't have to be a resident and
(23:26):
work eighty hours a week and not sleep. That's where
to get your agent on the phone. As soon as
you hang up, I'll find the guy at brent would
who kept you out. And you get your agent on
the phone, and and and get on the next get
on the next graze and one of the next Grayson
anatomy is we want Reggie Bush to be a doctor. Okay,
not a p a Okay, not a nurse, Okay, a doctor.
There we go. Good catching up, Reggie. It's Reggie Bush,
(23:49):
of course. Uh is a college football analyst for Fox
Sports and a great dude. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three
pm Easter noon Pacific. Chris Mannock Jointsis from Sports Illustrated
NBA Insider, UM, all right, how close are we to
having an announcement on what they're gonna do? Well? I
think the NBA would like to be able to announce
(24:12):
something on Friday. Um. They have a call schedule with
the general managers on Thursday. There's the Board of Governors
virtual meeting on Friday, and I think at that point,
the league would like to have something to be able
to submit to kind of put forward to you know,
move this thing um in in a forward direction. So
(24:35):
the problem is, as we sit here and talk on Tuesday, uh,
there really isn't anything concrete yet. There are still ongoing
discussions about how many teams are going to be involved
in all this, how it's all gonna work, um, you know,
will there be some kind of playing tournament at the end.
It's it's a very fluid process. I mean I have
(24:57):
from different people, you know, every or that that suggests
something else is on the table. So you know, the
short answer is that they like to you know, move
this forward on Friday, but you know it's gonna take
a lot of work to get there. Michelle Roberts said
she wanted certainty. Players want certainty. What do they want
certainty about? Well, I mean, I think there's a number
(25:20):
of different things they want certainty about. They want to
know if they're going to play. I mean, there are
the bottom tier teams that you know, some would like
to play, others, as we've heard, Golden State kind of
stay publicly. They're they're good with kind of wrapping this
thing up Um, there are our teams, and you heard
Damian Lillard say what he said to Yahoo earlier. You know,
(25:41):
players want to know if they're coming back, is it
gonna be meaningful or are they just coming back to
satisfy uh television obligations. So that's a big part of this.
I mean, I think if there weren't these these obligations
to regional networks that that the NBA either has to
fill still now or deal with down the line, we
probably be closer to a sixteen team playoff and just
(26:02):
go from there. But you know, I don't think players
want to come back just to you know, be part
of this whole process of satisfying financial commitments. So I
mean that, And of course there's the certainty of the
safety protocols, which ended up himself, Doug. I don't think
it's been fully fleshed out. Yeah, look the Damian Lillard thing.
So for people who are just joining us, Damian Lillard said, look,
(26:24):
we don't have a chance to play in the playoffs.
I'm not gonna play. Um, which is interesting because I've
talked to a lot of NBA people are like, man,
that would suck if they let the let the the
Trailblazers have a shot because now they're healthy, there are
three and a half games out, whereas Memphis had had
played better for them for the season. What do you
think they end up doing with the playoff teams? They
go just playoff teams? Where do they go playing? You know,
(26:47):
it's there's a difference opinion on both sides. I wish
I could be more specific with this, but there's every
person I talked to offers a different assessment of what
they're hearing and what Adam Silver is going to do
now there there is there's a strong push amongst a
lot of people to at least give those Western Conference
(27:07):
teams a chance to find a way to give Sacramento,
Portland's and New Orleans a chance to get in all
those teams of three games back at that final spot
in the Western Conference, and it's to come back for
five or ten games at least to give them a
mathematical chance to to do it. So there's some momentum
to only having those teams brought back of the mixed
teams with some kind of mathematical chance to to make
(27:30):
a run of this. Uh pushed back into the mix.
But to your point, Portland's could be a different team.
I mean, right now the seventies sixers are going to
be a different team. Utah is a different team because
Boyon Bogdanovic has done for the year. I mean, there's
just a lot of of of different unknowns with all
this and variables that you know, if I think, and
(27:51):
this is just guessing at this point, Doug, Honestly, like
if I had to guess, at some point, the India's
gone throw up at hand and say, look, we're sorry.
We'll deal with the regional network stuff later. We'll deal
with the teams that might be piste off later. We're
going sixteen teams into the playoffs. We're gonna preserve each
round best of seven to try to give us a
ligitimate champion. And that's what we're gonna settle on. How
do they do the exhibition games? How do they do
(28:13):
the ramp up games? You can't go zero to no,
you can't. And you know, there's been some talk about
doing just scrimmages, you know, but inter squad scrimmages between teams, um,
you know, extended training camps, extended practices and maybe you know,
if you do bring certainly if you bring all thirty
teams back, you can have you know, five to ten
(28:33):
regular season games. But you're right, that's that's legitimate concern.
You can't just go from a training camp where guys
are quite literally shaking off the rust. And when we
think about it, there's gonna be as much time is
gonna pass between the stardust pandemic and when the league
comes back to roughly at the end of the finals
in mid June, for when the league would start in
(28:54):
mid October, and in between the normal set of circumstances,
you have players working out every day. I've got the
personal trainers, They're in gyms, they're they're improving their game,
they're improving their bodies. For the most part, these guys
are doing nothing and you know, a handful of them
are able to work. My comedy has got home gym
that looks like by high school, but like the rest
of them are doing, you know, basically what you and
(29:15):
I might be doing on a regular basis. So they've
got to they do have to find a way to
bridge that gap between you know, going through the most
and training camp and dropping players into the most competitive
atmosphere there is. Chris Mannix Sports Illustrated NBA inside of
joining us Doug Gotlip show here on Fox Sports Radio.
How important is it for Lebron to win this one?
I don't know. I mean this that I wrote about
(29:38):
this a little bit today. I mean, for all the
reasons we just kind of spoke of, you know, the
difference in teams and how this really isn't a continuation
of a season but an entirely new thing. There's gonna
be a large amount of people that do this season
as Masters season anyway, and and God knows that Lebron
wins it, We're gonna be discussing this, you know, ad
nauseum til the end of time, like especially if he
(30:00):
wins like one or two more and encroaches on that
Jordan Kobe territory and then it becomes just a cluster
bleep of discussion about you know, all this stuff. So
I don't know, I mean it's it certainly would be significant.
And you can argue that Lebron winning a championship in
this type of environment is an incredible accomplishment, one of
his most incredible accomplishments of all time. But there are
(30:23):
going to be allowed chorus of people that say, look
it shouldn't count. The NBA season wasn't what it was
um and God forbid somebody tests positive that's a major
player in the postseason. That shakes things up. It's just
I don't know that it moved the needle for him
all that much. Okay, So if a guy does test positive, like, okay,
you do you deal with it right? Like you don't
(30:45):
shut it down? If one guy test positive, do you no?
And no. Silver has made it clear and he's right
that there's no point in coming back if you if
that's the only solution to all this, I don't both
think that there's a solution that's been agreed up on
by the union and the league. Yet as far as
what to do, I mean, I think the NBA, from
from the people I talked to you would probably model
(31:08):
their protocols after what UFC allegedly did. You know, god
knows what they actually did what they said they did,
which is just pulled the fighter out, quarantine and hotel
and go on with the event. Now the NBA will
have to take more precautions. You have to test more
people and you know, make sure that player X didn't
affect everybody, particularly some of the you know, older members
(31:28):
of coaching staffs, which really has some people in the
NBA uh concerned. But you know, they might take a
two or three day break to get the testing out
of the way, but they're not going to shut it down.
They will find a way to move forward that allows
as minimal destruction as possible. Chris mannis joining us here
on the Dug Out Lip Show on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
so the Warriors, Um, the Warriors clearly don't want to play,
(31:53):
probably won't play, and they'll be in prime position to
get the number one overall pick, and they're gonna get
you know, both of their stars back next year, one
of whom Staff Courier and already come back and played.
Best guess is their plan to use that first pick
or they are they going to try and package it
with Wiggins and and make another bold move. I think
(32:14):
they'd like to package it, um, And Look, being honest,
I haven't checked in with anyone there in the last
few months. Is this is this is kind of played out,
But my sense all along was that they'd like to
package it and and get a player that fits the
timeline better. Now, it was curious, and I've said written
this before. It was very curious that they moved Russell
when they did, because I've always built that no matter
(32:35):
what you think about D'Angelo Russell, I thought he was
a better option to package than Andrew Wiggins is unless.
I mean, look, if they had the last month or
so to be able to rehabilitate Wiggins some and you know,
show that he was a better player outside of Minnesota
that he was inside, then okay. But I don't know
what the market is for Wiggins at this point, not
(32:56):
with that contract and the inefficiency and the obvious and
ability to be a number one guy. I just think, look,
I think they'll try to move it and then and
who knows who's going to be available when when the
gust settles on all this. But I just thought they
missed an opportunity by getting rid of Russell, because Russell
in that pick, to me, had much more value than
Wiggins in that pick. Yes, I think Wiggins is about fit.
(33:18):
I think they want to keep Wiggins. I think he's
about fit because they know he's great as as a
third best player. He's great as a best or second
best player, he's not and you need a guy that
embraces that role. He does make he does make uh
a lot, a lot of money. You know, I don't
know how. You don't know how you move that pick though,
jug Like, it's just financially it's hard, like if you
can't package it with another player, and you're not if
(33:39):
you're not going to move off one of your core
guys like I don't. It's just hard to find a
player that that fits that that salary structure, unless you're
getting a guy but the team wants to give up
on that still on a rookie deal. It's a very
good point. It's a very interesting point. Chris mannocks our
guest in the Dug Gotlip Show on Fox Sports Radio.
The Dream Team teams tapes are out, and now there's
(33:59):
tape of Michael Jordan's saying, I you know, Rod, I
told Rod Doran I wasn't gonna play. If Isaiah Thomas
plays here, you're actually take a list. And this is
Jack McCollum in the McCallum in the Dream Team, James.
No matter what you heard, there was never much of
a chance for Isaiah Thomas to make the Dream Team
for this reason, mainly Michael Jordan's did not want him.
(34:22):
I wrote that back in because a source close to
the situation. No, not Jordan himself told me that was
the case. But Jordan's reaction to the question did you
keep Isaiah off the team was either angry no, dismissive
no Isaiah questions please, or coy hey, I didn't pick
the team. So when I went to interview Jordan for
(34:44):
the Dream Team book in two thousand eleven, I wondered
how I would nudge conversation over to Isaiah Thomas. But
against all odds, Jordan went there himself suddenly and without warning,
and the book rock I will play Thomas, Chuck if
(35:09):
you didn't hear he said, I don't want to play
if Isaiah Thomas is on the team. Doesn't that I
mean to me? The bombshell is that his own coach,
Chuck Daily, didn't want him on the team. Yeah. I mean,
I've I've talked to Jack McCallum a Watt the last
couple of weeks about this specific topic because I've been
writing a little bit about it and he's been helping
(35:30):
me along. And you know, I mean, this is two
ways to look at this one. Why is Jordan just
brazenly lying on this documentary when he knows this audio
is probably out there, and even it wasn't, He's got
a pretty credible writer in Jack McCallum saying that he
did in the book and obviously writing it in the nineties.
I think the bigger, the bigger story is certainly a
(35:51):
combination of Chuck Daily and Jack McCloskey, who was, you know,
the general manager of the Pistons at the time and
allegedly this heavily influential member of the USA Basketball operational staff.
If the head coach of the team, um isn't going
to the math forum and the general manager of the
team isn't going to the math form And I've talked
to a number of people obviously wasn't covering it back then,
(36:11):
but I've talked to a number of people that were
around it back then. Um, neither one of those guys
went to the map for Issaiah Thomas. And you're right,
like Michael Jordan's saying, I'm not gonna play without Isaiah,
is you know almost with with Isaiah is almost to
be expected if Chuck Danley the head coach, and Jack McCloskey,
this influential member and his general manager are not going,
(36:31):
you know, hard after him and that to me is
as a bigger statement. And then you have Magic, who
was his best friend, and they had they had a
fall and they had they had a falling out as
well at that point in time, So you got you
got all of these issues as of why he was
really uh really really uh not on the team. Still
fascinating to look back. Nonetheless, do you think that it it?
I mean a lot of people have said this becomes
(36:53):
it's not really a documentary. How do you view it
now that we've had kind of a week to catch
our breath. I mean, it's it's entertainment. I mean, I it.
I had one general and book I'm not knocking it.
I thought the director did a fantastic job of storytelling.
I mean, it's it's great. I was riveted by it
for for ten hours. But I had one general manager
telling me it was like a movie. He had, you know,
a hero in Michael Jordan's a villain and Jerry Krauss
(37:14):
and in other pieces in between, and I think I
thought the depiction of Krause was just wrong. I mean,
I think there's you know and you know this like
but there's there's a generation of kids that are eighteen
to thirty that you know, probably watched that for the
first time and didn't know much about Jerry Krous because
he disappeared after the Bulls and thought the Cross was
something of a caretaker. He wasn't. I mean, he had
(37:36):
one of the best drafts and the NBA history that
came with a pipping and Harris Grant. He made the
Bill Cartwright trade. He ultimately pulled the trigger on Dennis Rodman.
I mean, go down the list. I mean, the guy
has some whifts for sure, and certainly if he had
just shut up, you know, a little bit more, his
his perception would have been a lot better. But I mean,
the guy was a Hall of Fame general manager for
a reason. And the depiction of him as kind of this,
(37:57):
you know, just you know, fumbling, bumbling, you know, poon
that that Jordan's you know, mocked on a regular bassis
I thought was pretty bad. Chris mannix Sports Illustrated follow
him on social media as well. Makes you the best man.
I hope you're well. Thanks so much. You got it.
Doug
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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