LeBron Is The Most Impressive Of All-Time!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
H Hey, welcome in to the Doug Gotlieb Show Podcast.
We got a great show for you. I mean this
is outstanding War Moon Hall of Fame quarterback. You'll hear
from him. Plus John middlecof three Out Podcast. We'll not
only get some football talk, we'll talk to some Kaepernick
what really happened with Colin Kaepernick when he lost his
job in San Francisco. Plus get his drink of the
weekend choice. And John Hollanders, senior NBA writer for The

(00:21):
Athletic used to work for the Memphis Grizzlies. He'll he'll
join us. Let me start though. This is one of
those this day in history for the NBA. Thanks for
listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday three to six Eastern twelve
to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for The Doug gotleave Show at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the

(00:44):
I Heart Radio app by searching fs are you're listening
to Fox Sports Radio, Boom Up America, Doug Gottlieb Show,
Balks Sports Radio. You know it is June. Many of

(01:09):
you are married got married in June. UM. And so
if you look on people's timelines, a lot of you Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
the bird okay you um, if you look at timelines

(01:31):
and be like, a happy anniversary to my whatever, today
is also an anniversary. Are you familiar with what it's
an anniversary of? Hmm? What could it be? What could
it be? What could it be? What could it be?
What could it be? Well? Today is it's it's a

(01:51):
twofold anniversary, okay, a twofold anniversary. Eight seven seven Fox
is the phone number. I would tell you. I would
tell you that I do not believe, do not believe
that Lebron James is the greatest player of all time.
To me, that's reserved for Michael. Jordan's The Last Dance

(02:14):
was a sort of documentary sort of movie. It did
help move some people who were on the fence or
just forgot or weren't alive, didn't know enough about Jordan
to understand the difference in mentality and the building to
finish and overcome and when championships in etcetera. Things are different.
His style is different. You can make the argument about Lebron.
I'm just telling you from my personal perspective. Michael Jordan's

(02:39):
is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen play. I
would also be totally honest and tell you I think
Lebron probably has better balance in his life. Some of
it is because he's let us in. Jordan didn't let
us in on his family, regardless of you know, I'm
not gonna be judgmental about Jordan having a divorce and
that's why he did. I don't. I don't, I'm not.
But the point is that that between the school he started,

(03:04):
some of the other things he's done in business, aside
from his partnership with Nike and the family unit that
he has, as well as the growth of his businesses
with his friends. If you want to tell me that
Lebron is a better overall man, I'm not gonna argue
with you. You've got some You've got some pretty good

(03:25):
AMMO for that discussion. But in two thousand three today,
so this is seventeen years ago today, seventeen years ago today,
Lebron James was drafted into the NBA Draft. I was there.

(03:45):
It was my first ever excuse me, that's not true.
It was my third ever broadcast on on on the
other network radio. And I'll tell you the quick backstory. Okay,
So when I was in college, I would be a
guest on Jim Rome Show, which at that at the

(04:06):
time was probably the biggest national sports radio show. And
I was also a guest on a show called Todd
Right All Night. And Todd Wright was very talented overnight show.
I thought he was excellent. I know both of them
are guys I look up to in the business, guys

(04:27):
I have not so politely stolen from in the way
in which they do things and think, you know what
I would like to I like that. I'm gonna take that.
What is it that Aerosmith, Aerosmith lead singer, says Steven Tyler,
Amateurs borrow professional steel. He's talking about in regards to
music and the sounds and things changes that people make.

(04:48):
Same thing as true in sports radio. Right. So, um,
Once I was done with college, I did become a
professional basketball player in the usb L, the CBA, the
I B A, the A B A, and I played
in Russia and in France and in Israel. All the while.
When I would come back, I would do some local

(05:10):
sports radio and actually filled in twice for Todd Right
in Bristol after another week. The first week of Sports
after nine eleven, which by the way, coincided with Tom
Brady getting thrust into the game because Drew Bloods got
knocked out of the game. And somewhere there's an audio
tape of me saying the Patriots are done because they
got some guy named Tom Brady who's their starting quarterback. Thankfully,

(05:33):
Old Takes Exposed has not found that tape. But I
had hosted two shows for Todd Right, and I had
begged and pleaded and borrowed and whatever to try and
get back on that network, and that it was like
the only national radio network. And UH, while playing overseas,
some of my friends had said, hey, did you know

(05:56):
did you know that the ESPN got the rights the
NBA Draft. When I came back after my second year playing,
I got an opportunity. I did UH games for ESPN,
ESPN Plus and the Cowboys Sports Network, had a radio
show on w w LS and Oklahoma City. And when
I got done with that season, this is the March

(06:17):
of two thousand three, I got a call from my
basketball agent and I went and flew and played in
France for a month and a half. I get back
done with France to come and work out for the Timberwolves.
I get done working out for the Timberwolves and work
out against some of their guys in pre draft workouts,
and I called the guy who had hired me at
espn G named Dan Steer, and I said, Dan, I

(06:38):
should do the NBA draft. My dad's an AU coach.
My brother is a college coach. I covered college basketball.
I know all these guys and know all these teams.
I know the foreign guys because you know, for example,
the second overall pick, Darko Milicitch, I had played against
twice the year before when I was in Israel. He
was seventeen playing for Hemmel Farm Brosick Right, All of

(07:01):
this did in fact happen. And he said, I can't
use you, but maybe radio can. But I couldn't get
ahold of the bosses at radio. The only way to
get ahold of them was to go see them in person.
So I I was. I actually auditioned, to the true story,
I auditioned for a movie that was being made. Spike

(07:24):
Lee's brother was making movie and it was about you know,
you know, some scene and pick up basketball. And I
was going to play a character of a cocky white
point guard. Easy right, but I said, look, an audition
for the movie, but you gotta fly me up there.
They flew me to New York. I did the audition.
I don't think I did very well. And then while
I was there, I went and saw the ESPN radio

(07:47):
guys get him chief who was the executive producer at
games five, I think Game five of the two thousand
three NBA Finals. Steve Kirk comes of it off the
Steve Kirk comes off the bench, hits a couple of threes,
and they essentially took back the series. Didn't play in
the first half, came in at the end of the

(08:07):
third quarter, replaced Tony Parker, who was only a rookie.
So he says, listen, his name is John Martin. You
want to do it? Sure, Uh, we'll call you travel
next week in New York. We'll see you. So I'll
never forget this is. This is seventeen years ago. And look,

(08:28):
I knew who all these guys were. I knew Chris
Bosh because when I was at Oklahoma State he would
come up on an official visits from Dallas where he
grew up. Obviously I knew Darko, who didn't know Dwyane
Wade and Dwyane Wade story. I didn't actually know a
ton about Carmelo Anthony because during that n c A tournament,
I was in France playing basketball. But all the college
guys I really knew, and Lebron I had known. My
dad was an AU guy. I went to some of

(08:49):
these AU events. I watched him play on TV. I
had an opinion. But I gotta tell you the moment
he walked into the to the meetings and he had
a press conference the day before. You're like, this dude
is different. So today is the anniversary not just of
the day Lebron was drafted, but also of the decision.

(09:09):
WILL play for you both in a second. But here's
the case I would make before we get to the decision.
Not only his Lebron different, but Lebron James is the
first of his kind in terms of basketball. Tiger Woods
was the first of his kind, or of this this
elk where we were told from a very very young

(09:31):
age he was the next great one, and he not
only achieved, but even if Tiger Woods doesn't pass Jack,
he basically has surpassed anyone's reasonable expectations on what the
next great golfer would look like. He broke through color barriers.
He broke through barriers of dominating the field. Uh you know. Like, look,

(09:53):
even after as much as he hasn't been the same
since the car accident and Ellen and all the divorce
and all the shame, he did win more events than
anyone on tour. And he did just last year win
the Masters. Like this is He's an incredible story. Lebron
has many of those same attributes in terms of success
on the floor, but but he also has been virtually

(10:16):
flawless off the floor. Like you can argue that it's
hypocritical his lack of taking a stance on Hong Kong
if you like, that's fine. You can argue that his
his desire to act like he invented barbershop, talk with
the shop and shut everybody else down. It's silly, okay.
But for a guy who we were told at the

(10:38):
age of like fifteen sixteen that he was the next
basketball icon to at least achieve that and probably to
and to go take it from there to being in
any reasonable discussion of the greatest player of all time. Again,
I don't think he's the greatest player of all time,
but it's a debate that I'm willing to have. It's
not like you're trying to argue Tracy McGrady is at
the level of Kobe and Jordan's and Bird and Magic.

(11:01):
Lebron James is legit mentioned in that he's between the
best and the fifth or tenth best player. So it
depends how historically you want to greet it. Everybody has
their own perspective. There is no bad opinions unless your
opinion is Tracy mcgradier, Vince Cardroboard, Alan Iverson, etcetera. That's
pretty incredible. So so this is me giving credit. Two

(11:25):
thousand three. Here's Lebron James being drafted with the first
pick in the two thousand and three NBA draft. The
Cleveland Cavaliers select Lebron James. You fast forward, fast forward,

(11:47):
and um, it's it's interesting, Like we all remember where
we were during that moment. I was actually in at
Madison Square Garden when it was announced. Seven years later,
I was very close to where I am now. I
was getting ready the next day. I was filling in
for Jim Rome on his TV show Rome Is Burning,

(12:10):
and the decision came down. Here's Lebroad the answer to
the question everybody wants to know, Lebron, what's your decision? UM?
And this fall, man, this is very tough. UM. And
this fall, I'm gonna take my town as the South
Beach and UM join the Miami Heat. Miami Heat. That
was the conclusion you woke up with this morning. That
was the conclusion I woke up with this morning. Okay,

(12:33):
So Jim Gray there there had to be some script
there that he wanted to get the conclusion you ended
up he played It was almost like, these are not
the These are not the droids you're looking for. These
are not the droids you're looking for. Jim Gray did
the Jedi mind trick a little bit there at the end.
And it's interesting, like now we look back and it
was a free agency decision, unlike any other. Of course,

(12:55):
Dan Gilbert had that awful email, which you know ultimately
probably ruined even the the att any sort of attempt
at a reconciliation and relationship. When Lebron came back. I
don't think he's the greatest player of all time, but damn,
it's been an interesting career thus far, right from the

(13:20):
boyhood gonna be a superstar. To remember, he had thirty
in his first NBA game, taking the Calves to the finals.
You had the weird way in which it ended, where
he didn't actually tell anybody has the decision at a
boys and girls club in Greenwich, Connecticut, which look, I'm
not gonna fall to anybody, raised two million dollars. It
should be pointed out that the one boys and girls

(13:40):
club that didn't need the funds raised is in Greenwich, Connecticut.
But whatever I mean, it's for some sort of decent
cause it wasn't like his money that went into his pocket.
They go to Miami and while some would say, well,
that didn't accomplish what he set out to due they
went to four NBA finals, They won two NBA championship

(14:02):
and and though he failed in his first run against
the Mavericks, he didn't in his next two and then
of course lost. Then he went back to Cleveland, came
from three one down and won them their first championship,
and now is in l A and has a chance
to help the Lakers raise another bann or one they
haven't raised in Uh what like a decade? It's a
decade ago. Uh two days ago when they won their

(14:23):
last championship. Uh, there's a lot to get to with
Lebron James. I do want to make it kind of
the focal point of today's show. This amazing, This is
an amazing career. What what happens is and this is
what happens in politics, and this is what happens with
the coronavirus, and this is what happens everywhere is you're

(14:46):
either one side or the other. Because I've said continuously
like Jordan was more of an alpha hell, I'd probably
had rather have Larry Bird. Somehow I'm diminishing that of
Lebron James, and I'm not. He's unbelievable. He's the best
player of this generation. I think Kevin Durant has been
better in the past couple of years than he got hurt.
Lebron has basically with the exception of last year, and

(15:08):
never been hurt, which that too is part of how
remarkable this story is. Yes, he missed time and his
mid thirties with a pulled partially torn growing Okay, think
about Bird's career came to an end because of his back,
he had the heel spurs, He missed a substantial amount
of time. Magic got hurt, and then of course Magic's
career was cut short because he contracted hiv uh Jordan

(15:32):
missed basically his second year in the NBA, then wasn't
really hurt, but did retire twice. Like you gotta go
back through a Kevin Durant has been hurt with the
broken foot in Oklahoma City and then the torn Achilles tennant.
You go back and you look at all of these
all time historic greats, and Lebron's basically never been hurt.
He's got a chance to take his third team to

(15:53):
the NBA Finals. He now has the quarantine chance for
Quarantine Championship. He had to comeback in Eveland. He had that,
the two wins in Miami, he had the one in
which he took a band of misfits to the finals
when he was in Cleveland the first time around. Like
this is an unbelievable life. And so while I don't

(16:17):
think he's the greatest player of all time, you can
make a good case he's the greatest and most interesting
person to who ever and have the most interesting career
and impactful career of anybody. I just woke up today
thinking like man, for seventeen years, this dude has been
a part of every single basketball discussion. And while he

(16:40):
hasn't always won and hasn't always come out perfectly. When
you stop, take a step back and take a breath,
you like it's kind of crazy, sort of amazingly, incredibly impressive,
impressive as the word, impressive as the word. So now
we're this far removed, were this far removed from uh,

(17:04):
from the decision? Where are you with it? How have
you come around to it? I said at the time
that I thought it was Remember there were shots of
a Miami sports bar and there was nobody in it.
Right to go to a fan list, you know, a
place where they had won a championship, just to play.
I thought I didn't get it, But now I kind

(17:28):
of do. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter
noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio,
a app Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Mm hmmm, um,
all right, we got a great show for you today.

(17:49):
I'm super super excited. Eight seven seven nine on on Fox.
Is the phone number might be able to work in
what we might Warren Moon, Hall of Fame quarterback will
join us upcoming in Coman's Uh. He's a good friend
and has remarkable insight. We'll get We'll get his thoughts.
I'm gonna get his thoughts on he's a big basketball fan,

(18:09):
on Lebron and on this career, which again I don't
consider the greatest of all time. But I do think
you could make the argument that because of the pressure
that some of which he wanted to bring up to himself,
but some of it is not self inflicted, because of
just others anointing him the king when he was fifteen, sixteen,

(18:32):
seventeen years old and then becoming as good or better
than anyone could have thought for this long. That's remarkable.
All right. We'll get to warn Moon in a second. First, though,
here's Steve to Seger with an update on everything going
on in the world of sports. Steve what he have?
Oregon and Oregon State announced their rivalry games will no
longer be called the Civil War. Their men's basketball series

(18:54):
holds the collegiate record for most games played three d
fifty four basketball games between Oregan and Agan State all time.
They want to avoid any misconstrued reference to quote such
a divisive episode in American history. Morehouse in Atlanta canceled
its football season this year due to the pandemic. Gonna
ask you a question, has anyone ever thought that the

(19:15):
Civil War between organ Organ State was a reference in
any way to the actual Civil War. No, God, we're stupid.
We are the stupidest people on earth. We are stupid. Like,
these are not real problem. We have real problems. Like
that's one of the things that that has become aware.
We have real problems, and we'd like to address those

(19:35):
real problems. But wasting our time. We want to make
sure that we don't. We don't, we don't have anyone
has a reference to the Civil War, and Oregan played like, look, dude,
no one has ever been offended by organ and organ
state calling an interstate rivalry the Civil War. Okay, no
one has bever been offended by Utah and b y
you calling their rivalry the Holy War. It's not the

(19:58):
Holy War. Holy war? Okay, nobody actually dies yet we
call it the Holy War. Why because it's b y U,
which is a warm in university against Utah, which is
made up of probably predominantly Mormons, but not as hardcore.
Nobody thinks that's actually a holy war. They don't, they don't.
Um I we are just the dumbest. We we we

(20:22):
continue to just be so and it's smart people like,
no one's offended, no one. No one was offended by
the Dixie Chicks, okay, nor by Dixie Cups, Okay, over
by Antimimah. And a matter of fact, Anti Miima's family
is kind of ticked, like, wait, wait, you're taking her
we we we got money from this, like what we

(20:43):
were taking her off the bottle? What are you doing?
And definitely positively no one thought that the Civil War
between Oregan organ State was in any way of reference
anyway a reference to the actual Civil War. All right,
let's welcome in. He's a Hall of Famer, he's a friend,
and he I think he likes hoops more than he
likes talking about quarterback, which is why I want to
bring him on today. Warren Moon joined us in the

(21:05):
Doug got Leap Show two thousand three. Lebron James was
drafted today two thousand ten. The decision came down. So
I started by saying, look, I'm still I've always been
a Jordan guy. I'm I'm I'm not coming off of
that hill uh yet and probably won't ever. I don't know,
I'm I can't evolve on opinions. But the thing that

(21:27):
I'm marvel what with Lebron is he's basically been in
the national spotlight for twenty years. And whether or not
he's the greatest player of all time or the second,
or the top five or top ten, whatever, um, he's
lived up to and exceeded anyone's expectations on the floor.
And I would see exceeded anyone's reasonable expectations off the floor.

(21:50):
When I sit for as a as an all time
great in your own right, when I say the name
Lebron James, what comes to your mind? Just what you said? Great?
This he's the guy has been great since he stepped
on the floor as a rookie, and and uh, all
the expectations like you said that were put before him
and he's met and exceeded. So uh, he's continuing to

(22:10):
play great. It seems like he's even getting better. You know,
he's leading the the NBA and assists right now, He's
averaging somewhere around twenty twenty seven points a ball game.
His team has a second best record in basketball, and um,
the sky is the limit for the guy. Still. You know,
it just seems like he continues to to improve his game.
Every year he works on something to get better at.

(22:31):
This year is getting more people involved, and he's doing
that on his team. So yeah, he he's a very
impressive athlete, but also even more impressive as a human
being because of his social consciousness and then all the
things he's doing in the business world. So he's he's
a complete Uh, he's a complete man. The way he
treats his family and and how involved he is with

(22:52):
his family, There's not a whole lot negative you can
say about Lebron James. Yeah, I tend to agree with you, right,
Like I can disagree with things he says, but I
can't disagree with the person that he is. And uh,
you can't say that about I can't say about every superstar,
but I can definitely not say about him. Um, how
do you think? Like my take on the bubble and

(23:13):
I'm I'm taking the COVID positive tests completely out of it.
I think it's gonna be really hard to get top
level basketball warrnant. And and here's why you forget about
the fact you're gonna have training camp, you have some
of these eight ramp up games, then you have the series,
but you're away from home for three months, like that
doesn't bring out the best in guys. Um, there won't

(23:36):
be the crowd to pick you up. I just I
feel like, yes, we're gonna have a champion, and it's
the best we can do. But I I, I just
it's a it feels like we won't get the best
basketball out the best basketball players because three months in,
at the end of three months in quarantine, that's when
a champion will be decided. And I think by then

(23:56):
those guys will be like, check, please, I gotta get
away from I gotta get away from all these guys,
you know. I think what's gonna keep these guys going
is the fact that they do have a chance to
win a championship. And there's only gonna be two teams
that are gonna be there for three months. There's gonna
be a lot of teams that are only gonna be
there a few weeks, and once they're out of the
first round, they go home. And in the next round,
those teams go home. So the team that hangs around

(24:19):
for that long for three months of the team that's
gonna have a chance to win a championship. And I
think that's what's gonna fuel them as they go through
each round that Okay, yeah, we are quarantined, but we've
made it to the next round. And I think that's
gonna fuel them to to get that next step closer
to possibly winning a championship. And I think a lot
of it has to do with how you go into
this whole situation. You've got to really change your mindset

(24:42):
of what you're going into that. Uh, you just have
to know that we're gonna be locked down, possibly for
three months, um and and you just have to go
in there thinking that you can't be thinking about doing
extra things on the side, going out to dinners, being
with family, being with friends. You're gonna have to be
locked into your team. You're gonna have to be locked
in and maybe watching more tape working on your game

(25:04):
when you have all this free time. Uh, there's a
way to get it done. And this is something we've
never seen before. And I think that's one of the
problems that we've never seen a team have to go
through anything like this. And yes, it's gonna be very,
very difficult, but I think that, uh, that part at
the end of the rainbow, I think is what's gonna
keep guys motivated as they go through each round in advance.

(25:25):
Nine time pro bowler, a former All Pro, and a
Hall of Famer, Warren Moon, our guest on the Doug
Gottlib Show on Fox Sports Radio. You played into your
forties and I'm just wondering, like, and I've I've told
you this before, and and other people I know in
the NFL's all now their head. Your your ball is unbelieved.
Like you threw one of the greatest footballs I've ever seen.

(25:48):
It felt like it was getting longer. Like I don't
know what was your spiral and how sharp your arm was.
But how much does it change? Because look, Breeze, Uh,
even last year, even though he had the five games
off because of injury, he wasn't the same late in
the year. Brady hasn't hasn't been the same, Uh, Philip Rivers,
I believe one of the reasons there are so many

(26:10):
turnovers last year wasn't just the offensive line. But look,
at some point, your arm, your body is kind of shot. Um,
How how hard do you think it will be for
Tom Brady, not just at forty three, but also new system,
a system that demands uh, deeper throws and holding on
the ball. Longer. But most of for a guy who's
played in his forties, how much does it change once

(26:31):
you once you age playing quarterback? Yeah, those are the
things that I noticed the most was fatigued that later
into the season um as as uh, you know, the
season got longer, you just didn't have not so much
your arm, but it was more your legs because you
throw the ball more with your legs than you do
with your arm. And when your legs and feeder in
the proper position, you're gonna get you know, the velocity

(26:53):
and the thrust behind your throws. And as you get
older and as you get later into the year, you
start to wear it down. It's that's something you have
to really be conscious of, as far as how many
reps you take in practice as the year goes on,
when you get to that halfway point, maybe you take
a lot less reps and practice and give you a
second string guy more reps. Uh, you take less throws,

(27:13):
and you maybe put yourself on a pitch count. You
got to really make sure what you're eating, getting getting
enough rest. All those different things are gonna be important
as you go into the ladder far of the season
because fatigue will take over, and now Tom is not
gonna be playing in the cold Northwest. He's gonna be
playing in the uh in the south, the southeast, where
it stays warm pretty much the whole year, and that

(27:33):
tends to wear you down a little bit more too,
because you're in that heat and humidity a lot longer,
and your body will wear down more in that type
of weather. So those are all things he has to
be concerned about. Um Or, you're a guy who a
lot of people turn to because most people believe the
reason that you had to go to Canada early in
your NFL career and win all those Gray Cups and

(27:54):
be a star up there was was the negative perception
of the black quarterback in the National Football League. So
I guess my question you is, have we are we
past that point where football, as Tony Romo said, football
is a meritocracy right when he kind of handed the
reins to Dak Prescott a couple of years ago. Are
we to the point in your opinion, I have a

(28:15):
guy who has actually seen racism, Um, are we to
the point where football is a meritocracy, specifically at the
quarterback position? Yeah, I think we've turned that corner at
that position. Finally, and if you look at the league
right now, not only are there are a lot of
African American quarterbacks, but they are really flourishing in the league.
I mean you could you could arguably say the six

(28:36):
of the top ten quarterbacks in the league or African American.
You look at the reigning MVP as an African American,
the Super Bowl MVP is a is a uh African
American in the first overall picking the draft and Rookie
of the Year was African American, the highest paid player
in the league right now, and Russell Wilson African American soul.
Not only are they playing well, but they're flourishing. And uh,

(28:59):
I'm very, very proud to see that as a guy
who had, you know, my struggles to try and get
into the league and and did fairly were once I
got there. But these guys are now coming into the
league high round draft picks, that being highly endorsed at,
being highly paid, and that's something that should have been
happening a long time ago. But it's finally happening, and
I'm happy to see it. Who isn't happy to see it?

(29:20):
It is an amazing thing on how we've kind of
how we've how so much has changed in terms of perception,
obviously the reality of the dominance of at a position
where there was a glass ceiling for so long. Um,
you've long been a proponent of Cam Newton, having worked
with him on and off the field before he was
drafted in the NFL draft, and you know him so well.

(29:43):
Do you do you like this idea of, Hey, let's
just sit out and somebody's gonna go down or somebody's
gonna be bad and you can become like America's fill
in starter. Is that a good plan if you were
Cam Newton? You know, I think it's a pretty good
plan for him right now, because I just don't see
the guy going somewhere as they counseled in backup right now,

(30:04):
and he's just too good a player, first of all.
I think his personality and his ego probably wouldn't be
able to handle it. And I don't think most of
the starters in the National Football League would be able
to handle having Cam Newton as your backup quarterback, especially
a lot of young quarterbacks in the league right now
who are still trying to find their way in the league.
All of a sudden, you're looking over your shoulder and

(30:24):
former m v P is your backup. So I think
for a lot of reasons, that's one of the reasons
he's not signed is because of some of those things
we just talked about. So, yeah, if in this game
a guy is gonna go down, quarterbacks do go down
even though they're being protected better than they ever have been.
And I think if he sits around and waits for
the right opportunity, that opportunity is gonna come. Um. I'm

(30:47):
hoping he can get in front of a couple of
teams so they can at least see that he's healthy, uh,
that they can sit him down and talk to him,
because hands a different personality. He's not the typical quarterback
you see in the national football that he's a big
personality guy. He comes with a lot of swagger to him,
and and that that isn't everybody's cup of tea for
everybody's football team. So I think he needs to get

(31:09):
in front of the general managers and coaches and let
people see exactly who camp he is, because he's a
really he's a really good guy. He's a really family guy.
He's one he's the guy who doesn't drink a lot.
You know, he does drink wine now I see. But
other than that, he's not a big party guy. He
works hard. He's just had some unfortunate injuries over the
last couple of years. Yeah, and I think, you know,

(31:30):
he was so dynamic as a runner, but then you
watch how Carolina used him and tried to make him
into more of a drop back pass. I do think
the teams wonder, not not just his throwing motion was
a little How hard is that to fix your throwing
motion because you have an arm? Did you ever have
a shouldering? Like? I don't feel like you ever had
a shoulder injury because you threw such a good ball.
I mean that's when I talked to one NFL jim

(31:51):
He's like, he wasn't throwing it right last year. I
don't care about all the other stuff. The guy can't
throw a football right, especially with his type of you
know arm, which is not crazy accurate but really really strong.
That gave a lot of people pause. How hard is
that to fix? You know, it is hard when you
get to a certain stage in your career. I had
a partially touring Rotator Cup Believer or not one off season,

(32:12):
and I never told anybody about it. I just had
it worked on, and we worked it through the rehab
and got it back strong again. But I was at
an age I think I was around thirty five at
the time, and I didn't want anybody to know that
that was going on, because you know, when you get
to a certain age, especially back then, they started looking
for your next replacement. So I kept it to myself.
Get to rehab and and and it all worked out.

(32:35):
But you know, Cam again, he's the guy that trying
to change his throwing motion at this stage of his career.
He's been in the league with something like nine years. Um,
that's something you don't really want to try and do.
If anything, you might, you might want to shorten it
a little bit if you can. But if it's gonna
affect your accuracy or anything like that, I'd stay away
from it. But there are little tweaks maybe you can

(32:55):
make to your to your throwing motion, but you can't
make anything major at this stage your career. Lakers are Clippers. Yeah,
I'm I've been a Laker guy all my life. I'm
from Los Angeles. Um, the Clippers are in Los Angeles.
Don't know if you know this. I mean I know
when they know when you were coming up. They always

(33:17):
they'll always be the San Diego Clippers to me until
they be until they win a championship. But I really
like this Clippers team. I think their team is deeper
than the than the Lakers team is as far as
the talent standpoint. But I just think for some reason,
because of uh, because of Lebron James and his experience
in the play in the playoffs and then the finals,

(33:38):
I think he's gonna lead that team on into victory.
But we'll have to wait and see. But I think
it would be a great finals if there was the
Clippers against the Lakers, that would be the ultimate final,
even though that can't happen. Weren't your health, kid? All?
My health is great. I really feel good right now.
I'm you know, but I've really been careful throughout the
soul virus thing. I'm still working out. I still throw

(34:01):
the ball to my son, who's a wide receiver and
playing Pop Warner football, so he keeps me active. All right,
you gotta bring him down here. My son is a
little Pop Warner wide receiver and quarterback. Got him working
out with t J. Hushman's out of some of the
pros and high school and college kids. Pretty awesome. Next
some video with my son. You'd be amazed. I would
not be amazed. You're a Hall of Fame player, you're

(34:21):
a great athlete. I would not be amazed. I would
be like, Yep, that's exactly what I think Warren Moon's
sun would look like me that that's that's fair enough.
Hey man, be well, let's talk soon. Thanks for joining us, Hey,
thanks for having me on. Talk to you soon. The
pleasure is always always mine. That's a war Moon hall
of Famer, a good friend. And I mean, like, look

(34:42):
if if you blow everybody everybody's son, like, you can't
believe my son, like you know, like Warren you're kind
of awesome, So your son being awesome doesn't. It's like,
my I have a buddy who I I went to.
He's staying at a beach house near my house, and
and he's he's got a little son who's a stud athlete.

(35:03):
He was a great play names Kyle Dotty played Arizona
State and he was like a vertical leap. Well. His
wife is a former gymnast and like an Olympic level
gymnast at Arizona State. And he's like, can you believe
how athletic? Is like, yeah, I can't believe it. You
were a great athlete. She's a great athlete. He's a
great athlete. That's what he works. Yeah, that's not not surprising. Well,
the NFL step in and stop Tom Brady's private workouts.

(35:25):
We'll tell you next. Be sure to catch the live
edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter Noon Pacific Doug Gotlip Show, Fox Sports Radio. UM.
Every day, this time we get you updated on stories. Today.
We do so by playing a game. This is Game

(35:46):
Time Tide on The Doug Gottlieb Show. Steven Sega, what's
the game? My friend John? Game psychic? Psychic. I will
give you an item, and you, Mr Psychic, give me
the prediction item number one in the world. Oh sports.
Michael Silver reported there is legitimate interests by a couple
of NFL teams in quarterback Colin Kaepernick. Psychic. Will Colin

(36:08):
Kaepernick be signed to a team prior to the NFL season? Okay,
I need some clarification here. Will he be signed to
a team? Yes? Will he make a team? No? Really?
Wait wait, you're gonna he you're saying he'll be in
camp with somebody for sure. Yeah. Yeah, And then your

(36:29):
prediction beyond that is that he won't be on an
opening day roster. Correct? And what will even with expanded rosters,
what will? What will cause this? We're only gonna keep
two quarterbacks, and it's really hard if they expand the
I like, give me, give me a team. Well, the
Chargers already have three for example, correct, the Chargers. Just

(36:52):
so you know the Chargers, I would they keep? Well,
they just drafted their their starting quarterback, Tyrod Taylor's gonna
be their starting court to back. And you know when
they drafted last year, right, So they're not he's not
gonna sign with them. I mean you know that. Anthony
lyn said, we'll bring him in for a workout. He
just but anyway, somebody will sign him, like because you'll

(37:14):
have five six quarterbacks. I just I have the idea
that he's gonna make a roster. I don't. I don't
see Item two. Quarterback Tom Brady continues the private workouts
amid the pandemic, despite the warnings, including from his own union.
He went to Instagram this week with the FDR quote,
we have nothing to fear but fear itself. Psychic. Will
the NFL step in to stop Brady and the Bucks

(37:36):
holding these workouts? Uh? No, No, because it's Tom Brady.
Because it's Tom Brady. Because the workouts frankly, are happening everywhere.
It's just because it's Tom Brady. There's video of them,
Like Tyrod Taylor's having workouts. There's there was some video
on on on the edge. Nobody cares that Tyrod Taylor's
doing it right. All these guys are throwing, all the

(37:57):
wide receivers running. I've been to wide receiver workouts with guys.
Nobody's wearing masks like they're all doing it. So it
does it the fact that Tom Brady that helps, But
the NFL is not showing. Speaking of wide receivers, Antonio
Brown has been working out with the high school quarterbackers
he prepares for a comeback to the NFL. Psychic, Where,

(38:18):
if anywhere will Antonio Brown play football this year? Um?
He will play with the Seattle Seahawks. If he plays anywhere,
has to be a coaching This is game time on
the Duck Gottli Show. I mean, they've they've taken out
some difficult personalities. They need a top level wide receiver

(38:38):
and they I'm sure he'll be suspended for some portion
of time and they'd be willing to wait. And he's
kind of worn out as welcome in a bunch of
other organizations. Uh okay. So you talk about teams and
like Kaepernick and Cam Newton and why they're not on
a team. What about the Cleveland Browns? Right? Is Baker

(38:58):
Mayfield in danger of being benched if he struggles to
be my thoughts next to The Doug Gotlip Show, be
sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio a app. What
Up Doug Gottlip Show, Fox Sports Radio. M M M.

(39:23):
Got a new quote from the commissioner of the NBA
which I completely agree with, been saying it for a
long time, and now the commissioners starting to openly agree
with me. Get to that in a moment. First though,
let's uh uh, let's let's set this up. But you know,
Steve Say was acted surprised when I said, you know
that that you didn't think Colin Kaepernick When I said
I didn't think Colin Kaepernick would make a team. Now, look,

(39:45):
I do believe. I do believe that there's a chance
if Kaepernick were to go, for example, to Kansas City,
like kan'n Cities type place, because they've rehab my fixed career.
You know, you have Pat Mahomes Kan's City and maybe Houston.
You know you have a guy who's not he's absolutely
the starter. First thing is that Kaepernick has to want

(40:08):
to play, and and wanting to play is more than
just a I want to play, Like is he willing
to get into great shape? Is he willing to take
a very small amount of money? And that's the big
thing is the money. And and one of the like
what what makes everyone who paid any attention four years

(40:32):
ago furious is it's like we completely overlook all of
the actual facts of what happened. He had non sports
guy coming in going like, yeah, he was even super
Bowl and then he kneeled and then he's out of
the league, and it's because he kneeled, Like, no, that's
not actually what happened. He was in the super Bowl.
Then they went eight and eight. Then his coach got fired, right,

(40:55):
and one of the reason they went eight and eight
was people figured out he couldn't throw going to his left,
small hands changed, he didn't at a limited number of
arm angles. You know that he was great and greg
roman system, but didn't seem to fit in other systems. Look,
the Chip Kelly thing didn't work at the end, and
before that he had Tom Seula. It was a terrible year.

(41:16):
I don't think anybody would But he also he had
lost his job previous to that because the stories where
he wears headphones inside the facility. He just wasn't a
guy who was gregarious and a leader of men. And
the leadership came from afterwards, came from leading this movement.
But even when he had the kneeling, he was a
backup quarterback. To blame Gabbert. And then they go to Miami,

(41:39):
he wears a Castro shirt. Like there's all kinds of stuff.
But but here's another part before his last year in
San Francisco, where everybody said they're gonna stink, they're gonna stink,
they're gonna stink, and your contracts gonna run out and
they're not gonna pick up the option, which all happened.
He could have gone to Denver, but Denver said, like, look,
we'll take you. You're supposed to make four. Team will
take you at seven million, and he's like, nah, good

(42:01):
here they were terrible. Season was over. He went and
visited Seattle and he told Seattle, I'm a starting quarterback.
Well that translates into I want starting quarterback money. And
why would you even go visit Seattle? They have Russell Wilson.
Did you think they brought you into to replace Russell Wilson?
Like the whole thing was silly. Then he was said

(42:22):
to go to Baltimore and his girlfriend tweets out of
meme with Django unchanged, basically saying that Bashati, the owner
of the Ravens, is like a slave master, Like, okay, dude,
Steve A. Schotti is the owner of the Ravens. He
hired the first ever black general manager in the history
of the league, and ozzieknew some who was one of
the most respected dudes. And the reason that Baltimore wanted

(42:46):
him was Flacco was starting to starting to flounder, had
the bad back and oh yeah, by the way, um
Greg Roman was was end up coming in and becoming
their offensive coarter. He was there, and you had John
Harball who believed in him because he played for Jim Hardball, Like,
you have to have connections. It's like we completely forget
about all the different things. You gotta have somebody who

(43:09):
believes in you, who's seen you, who's coached you. More
than just what Colin Kaepernick back in two thousand and
thirteen was awesome. It was awesome. Two it's two thousand
and twenty. Like, if Cam Newton can't get a job,
what makes you think that Colin Kaepernick can't and for
and there are similar reasons. Both of were really athletic

(43:29):
quarterbacks that went through multiple surgeries legs and arm. Both
are guys that Cam has seen is a much better
leader than Kaepernick, but both are kind of different sorts
of personalities than the traditional quarterback personality. I mean, the
traditional quarterback personality, and you're gonna get people who will

(43:52):
parse that and go like you're talking about white guy,
Like no, not. Russell Wilson is a traditional quarterback personality
where you say everything kind of politically correct, and you're
you're very close to the front office, to the head coach.
You're you're kind of some a sort of a corporate character.
You make everybody feel good, you look good, you're attractive,

(44:12):
you look good, you got a good family. Like all
of these guys from Matt Ryan to Russell Wilson too.
You know, I kinda go through the line. They all
kind of look the same. They all answer. They're all
very innocuous answers to to question. Like even Pat Mahomes,
you know, wanted to make changes, Like Pat Holmes didn't
say anything that would raise anybody's eyebrow. That that was

(44:34):
the big thing with Drew Brees, Like Drew went into
his flag thing. But the interesting part is like Drew
usually says the most innocuous stuff ever, that's what quarterbacks do.
So I know that people are like, well, why is
theano roster? He was first of all this idea that
you know he's still a good quarterback. How do you
know him play and play football a long time? You know,

(44:55):
just there's a done bunch of dudes that have been
playing and not stop playing improve their craft that you've
never heard of before as opposed to him, who he's
had another thing going on. And then you have the leadership.
How much would he actually work for? What teams would
actually want him? What starter could have a backup? Who's
that popular in terms of the social justice and and

(45:19):
social media world. It's a lot that goes into it.
I want to get into speaking of quarterbacks. You got
Baker Mayfield, good first year, disappointing second year. This is
Mike Tannenbaum, former general manager of the Miami Dolphins, of course,
a longtime agent before he was a general manager. Here's
Mike Cannonbaum on ESPN earlier today on what will happen

(45:40):
if Baker Mayfield struggles. Let's ask the question of how
long at leash do you give him if say he
goes out first game of the season and throws let's
say three picks Ryan a very very short leash. I
know Kevin Stefanski really well. He's smart, he's deliberate, he's disciplined.
He will have zero compunction to bench Baker Mayfield. There's

(46:03):
one other interesting dynamic here, guys. It's a rookie head coach.
If Baker Mayfield has a bump in the road early
in the season, he may not say this publicly, but
I'm telling you that here's what Kevin Stefanski is thinking.
This is an opportunity. If I bench Baker Mayfield, They're
gonna all fall in line and what if we said
over the last couple of years, Cleveland has underachieved as
an organization penalties, turnovers. If Mayfield gets benched, even it's

(46:28):
for a game or two, I promise you he'll get
the attention of that whole team. Okay, So let's go
back to the Kaepernick thing. Why did Colin Kaepernick need
to play in Baltimore with Greg Roman? Is the offensive
coortin right? The same reason? Do you know who the
backup quarterback in Cleveland is? It's Case Keenum. You're like,
Case Keenum. He's in Washington last year and I remember
in Houston and whatever. Case Keenum's greatest success in the

(46:52):
NFL came in the postseason with the Minnesota Vikings. He
took them to the NFC Championship Game. Where did Kevin
Stefanski come from? The Minnesota Vikings? Now I disagree, like, look,
Mike Tannebaum has forgotten more about the NFL than I
will ever know. But I also think that most people

(47:14):
understand the Case Keenum is brought in much like Nick Foles, Like, yeah,
he's won games in the system and he knows the system,
but he's brought into be kind of the quarterback coach
quarterback whisper to make Baker Mayfield great. Right, Look, I
don't and I don't know how many like case Keenum
played in the exact same system as Baker Mayfield in college.

(47:39):
Did you guys know that he played at Houston? He
played for six years because of injury y Houston differ
like crazy number of yards. But case Keenum doesn't have
what Baker Mayfield has in terms of armed talent. He
just doesn't. You know, they're both undersized. You know, they're
both good athletes in the pocket, but not they're not
Russell Wilson in terms of being able to move the

(48:00):
pocket nearly as well. But Baker Mayfield has an exceptional
football i Q and a much better arm than case Keenum.
And I think that I don't agree. I think there's
no way he would have to be so bad, so
bad to get pulled because he is their franchise quarterback.
And I know that the GM didn't draft him, and

(48:22):
I know that the head coach didn't draft him, and
I know that case Keenan went. But if even if
we remember correctly about that Minnesota Vikings team, they should
have lost at home to the New Orleans Saints if
not for one, you know, bad tackle on Stefon Diggs
where the rookie's got his head down and then he
got embarrassed against Philadelphia because outdoors he just does not
have the arm. Like that's case Keenum just doesn't have

(48:43):
an arm. So do I think, Do I think at
the end of next year, if it was a bad year,
they could get rid of Baker Mayfield. Yeah, that's that's reasonable.
What happens you get rid of the coach and the
GM first, and then the players start to go. That's reasonable.
But I don't think. My biggest fear for the Cleveland
Browns is that Stefanski runs the football too much and

(49:06):
ends up. You know, he's got two stud wide receivers
in oh b J and Jarvis Landry. Plus he's got
Austin Hooper is the pass catching tight end those boys
need to eat. I know you got Chubb and Kareem
Hunt and don Show Hilliard. You know you have two
fabulous running backs, but you better get the ball to
those dudes outside and and Austin Hooper you paid all

(49:28):
that money for. So I I but I don't. I
don't envision Baker being anywhere near the point of being benched.
I could I could be wrong. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at
three pm Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the I Heart Radio ah app Summer's open and Lowses

(49:50):
home for the fourth Make your backyard the best place
to be, Starting with the grill. Get the Charbroyl five
burner gas grill now just four It's at home with
Low's valid. That's ju while supplies. Last selection varies based
upon location. This is the Doug Gotlip Show on Fox
Sports Tradio. I do a podcast called All Ball. It's

(50:13):
really good. Mark Ptian, head coach of Maryland, UH kind
of my guest this week UM on the Herd podcast Networks.
You can type in all Ball. You can also type
in three and out. John Middlecoff is part of the
same network as his former NFL scout has his own
all football podcast. He joins us now on The Doug
Gotlieb Show. Middlecoff, Where were you two thousand thirteen? Two thirteen?

(50:37):
I was depends what part of the year. Early part
of the year work in uh in the NFL scouting
second half kind of hanging where where? Where were you
scouting in thirteen. Uh well, obviously, you know early in
the year Combine All Star Games, Draft, that's when Andy
Reid had gotten fired and Ship came in. And then

(50:58):
you know, during this you know, the fall is when
you go to all the schools and the you know,
the spring is kind of the meetings and the pro
days and all that crap. Okay, what was your impression
of Colin Kaepernick in thirteen? Uh? Well, I remember, you know,
I was a graduate assistant at Fresno State, so he

(51:18):
was a valley guy, and uh he desperately wanted to
come to Fresno State and Coach Hill didn't offer him.
You know, it was much more pro style back then,
just all around college football, and it was clear early
on he was kicking our butt for the two years
I was there, and then when I got to the NFL.
I think his second year, my second year in the
league is when he was coming out and we had

(51:39):
Michael Vick and Coach Reid was getting more expansive. I
we liked them, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say
we're in love with them, but definitely liked them a
lot as a prospect. And then once I got in
the media. I was really close to those hardball teams
and going to all the games of Candlestick, and you know,
he was a unique talent. Now, the one thing I
always said about him is if you really dove into

(52:00):
the box scores, and it's easy, you know, once everything
kind of took place. Even in his heyday, he was
much more of a feasture famine thrower. He was a
remarkable runner because he was so fast in the scheme
was just so new. But when you look at the
box scores, he had a lot of like two hundred
fifty yard games where he completed like twelve of twenty
because he would hit some huge place because his arm

(52:22):
was just you know, on Collins thing today's top five
arm talents, he would have been in his early on
in his career at number one because he could throw
it on a rope like ninety yards. But he was
not Mr Accuracy, No, no, no, no, he was. He was.
There was a lot of He was kind of La
Bar before Lamar a little bit right, not not as twitchy,
and as you know, he was much more of a

(52:43):
downhill runner than than the straight line guy and much
bigger arm though bigger, bigger arm but also had small
hands and and struggled, struggled with different arm angles, right,
like the way the wheel route in the outs and stuff.
He would just hit trainers on the sideline. People forget that,
but that used to happen a lot. No, this is
this is kind of what I want to do here. Okay,

(53:04):
Like I wanna talk about other stuff, but when we
do this thing where there's a lot of guys who
are in my position who either didn't really invest and
didn't pay attention, didn't know at the time, or just
want to they're almost deceptive in how they want to.
Like what what we want to do is he went
to Super Bowl. He's one throwaway and by the way,

(53:24):
that was a terrible play called considering you know they
call fade in the end zone that that's not something
that's not a throw he makes particularly well and he
didn't throw that ball particularly well. Right, but he's one
throwaway from winning a Super Bowl in a great comeback
too he kneeled and now he's out of the league. Like,
that's not really what happened, right, So what what changed
they hardball? I know they lost some town and they aged,

(53:47):
but didn't people begin to figure him out the year
after the Super Bowl and fourteen, yeah, I think that
by the second year, so hardbas last year because remember
the year after the Super Bowl they go to the
NFC Championship game. But if memory serves me correct, they
were like eleven and five and their offense was kind
of hit or missed. Now, they could always run the ball,
their offensive line was great. But his second year in

(54:07):
two thousand and fourteen, uh second year removed from the
Super Bowl, they tried to spread the offense out more,
you know, go like three and four wide receiver sets,
because you know, part of paying a quarterback at the time,
like twenty plus million dollars a year, they didn't think
they could sustain him running around, which is eventually gonna
happen to Lamar right in all running quarterback and he
just couldn't. Like he's not a guy that could have

(54:29):
forty attempt games and it was a disaster. And people
forget this, but the Arizona Cardinals at the time, like
they had the Honey Badger and Tony Jefferson and Todd Bowls,
they used to mock him and say he was a
one read quarterback. And there was a game you probably
remember this he threw four picks, two in the first half,
two pick sixes, and the Arizona Cardinals after the game

(54:50):
called it like a high school offense, and it would
just be in terms of his reading and then it
was just a disaster and he was he just what
we see guys do now, you know, throw forty fifty
times a game. It was that was his biggest roadblock.
He couldn't he couldn't operate an offense like that. And
when the Niners were really good. Another thing I think

(55:11):
people forget. They had like the greatest front seven of
all time. I mean their middle linebackers were Willis and
Bowman and all then before he fell off the cliff,
and then Ray McDonald bad guy, dominant football player with
Justin Smith. And then their offensive line and run game
with Frank Gore and just like four out of their
five offensive linemen were ballers and they dominated up front.
So it was it was a team equipped for an

(55:33):
inaccurate quarterback to succeed, right, who also could really run.
I mean he could fly when he got some open
green grass, right, which I want to get to the correlation, Lamar.
It's really interesting because that's kind of what Baltimore has
created recreated, which is fantastic and people. Okay, so he
had arms surgery, he had he had leg issue and

(55:53):
leg surgery as well. Um what and then he got
he got beat out by Blake. But there was also
he wasn't a traditional quarterback from the leadership aspect either.
And what what happens when I say that is like
all you mean it wasn't a white guy, Like, no,
that's not what I'm saying starting quarterbacks. And I've interviewed
probably fifty in my you know, fifteen years ago and

(56:16):
it's probably fifty and most of them at Super Bowls.
They all have this thing that that they do. They're
like senators right where they shake your hand, they smile,
they look in your eye, and they started asking you
questions before the interview, and you're like, are we best friends?
Do we know each other? Should we hang out after this?
Now you don't? Actually they don't. Actually it's not that
they're disingenuous. They just have this ability to make you

(56:38):
feel great about yourself. And he was just kind of
a quiet kid who had his headphones on and he
rubbed some people the wrong way, like there was more
to it than just he he had the injuries, he
had the inability to evolve as a quarterback, and then
he was kind of quirky as a leader. Is that
a fair way of describing I think internally when they
made the move, because Alex was playing the best football

(56:59):
of his life, that it was Internally it was not
like a thumbs up moved from all the players, because
the players loved Alex. And as we saw in Kansas City,
like he's one of those type guys you know, you
meet him, you look him in the eye. Like every
coach from Hard Bough to Andy Reid to all those assistants,
Doug Peterson, Matt Maggie, they swear by Alex. Remember Kaepernick,

(57:20):
like you said the headphone, that was a story that
never gets brought up anymore. But Jay Glazer I remember
reported like he was isolated himself in the in the
meal room and it's like wouldn't talk. It was just weird.
And that's not it's not like these meal rooms are big,
and so it just got really weird really fast. And
then his game. The other thing is unlike Lamar Lamars,

(57:41):
like Michael Vick, where he's like a natural open field
can make you a miss and he's like a just
an athlete. Colin could not make you a miss. He
had to run by you. And then I think he
started questioning his speed, like by the time Chip got there,
and he would he wouldn't, he would just run out
of bounds. So his running element, like the pitch that
he had, like his you know, Trevor Hoffman changeup, he

(58:04):
didn't throw it anymore. He stopped running. So it's kind
of like the RG three argument. Well, if you're not
that accurate of a quarterback and then your best attribute,
which was your feet stop, you just don't even do
it anymore. That's a huge percentage of your pie that works, right,
So if I take what you're good at away, you're
gonna be a pretty limited player. So I think you're
you're right. When people talk about him like he was

(58:25):
the star, that was just not the case the last
couple of years. Now, should he have been a backup?
Did you get black ball? You know? Of course we
could argue that all day long, which I agree. People
pushed him out of the league. He should be a
back he should have got a chance to be a
backup or whatever. But his day and age of like
kicking ass and taking names a starter was like long removed. Okay,
but the backup part. John milcoff our guest re announced

(58:45):
the podcast the backup you also have to want to
be a backup, right? And if we remember after he
after he got cut by the Niners, he visited Seattle
and they came out and Pete Carroll was like, he
thinks he's a starter. We think he's a starter, and
we have a starter, Like why would you go even
visit Seattle if you wanted to be a starter? I
don't even understand that. Right, And then you have to, right,

(59:08):
you have to change your kind of mentality if you
want to be a backup and almost go hat in
hand and do the maybe not to the jamis Winston level,
But there's a lot of former starting quarterbacks that take
less money and Mariota's seven and a half billion, which
is a lot, but they go and they go in
these rehab projects. And he did not seem like that

(59:28):
was his jam, right, Like this is this isn't so?
I guess here's my question. You mentioned working for him
to read, isn't that like the only guy that this
this works for? Because he has mahomes. Everybody knows my
Homes a superstar. Nobody's gonna be calling from the stadium
to have Kaeperney come in from Mahomes. He's it's gonna
take him a long time to get up and ready.

(59:49):
I feel like that's one of the only places that
would actually work. I agree. And the problem though, is,
like you talk about money, Chad Hanny's, Matt Moore's, I mean,
Chris Jones wants twenty millions, are going to pay my homes?
Like backup has to be a veteran minimum guy, right,
So unless like Andy already feels comfortable with come of
these guys that he's rotated out, was that Matt Morrel
was the backup last year, that makes no money. So

(01:00:11):
that's part of it that you know, it has to
be really che and he already knows. The offense. To me,
this year is gonna be hard for a team, for
like for the Chiefs for example, like their goal in
this weird pandemic year, if we play football, it's gonna
be to win another Super Bowl this year. Well, they're
not gonna They don't have time to like break in
some new backup. It's just too complicated, right, you haven't
had any offseason that that's not really gonna work for

(01:00:34):
him given this coronavirus. Like I'd say the coronavirus and
Colin Kaepernick situation for a good team is not going
to work in his favor. And then when you're a
bad team, you probably have a young quarterback. You don't
want a guy with that sort of name to come
in and be your backup like it becomes. And I
don't think the argument for the it's it's the charge
your argument, right, Like he said he was on a
workout list. Well, they they've been telling us how much

(01:00:56):
they've left Tyrod Taylor for two years and then they
just drafted a guy number six overall, Like, so they
signed Kaepernick, Well, so does Herbert just red shirt a year?
Does Kaepernick just to meet? Is a third string? Most
teams don't keep two quarterbacks or I mean three quarterbacks.
So it's it's easy to say it's one of those things,
great little message, But is there any substance behind it? No? No,

(01:01:16):
the the other kid they have from was it from
South Dakota South Dakota State, what's the Yeah, the guy
Daniel Jeremiah talked about all the time. They love him too.
They love him. East and Stick. They love East and
Sticks everything but the arm. He's got everything. He's like
Drew Brees. He's like the presenting of like Drew Brees
before he went to Twenal and it just doesn't have
an arm. So yeah, I left. The league allows you

(01:01:36):
to carry three quarterbacks, which I don't think you could
discount at this point in time. Who knows the rules
kind of changing every day. It's gonna be difficult for
him to get a shot. Even if teams, let's say,
are in theory more open minded and willing to sign him,
and he'd be willing to play for whatever they the
minimum make it offer. What do you think, um? Like,
people are making a big deal about Brady having these workouts.

(01:01:58):
My thing is, I know these workouts exist everywhere in
the country. Right Do you do you really think that
Big Ben wasn't he was thrown with guys, you know,
Tyrod Taylor. You mentioned it was social media. He was
thrown with guys like the Lions tweeted out Stafford throwing yesterday.
Derek Carr just instagramed a picture of him leading the huddle.
Why do we why? Why do we work out? Shaming
Tom Brady these guys are professional athletes. Why why why

(01:02:21):
is the media so scared of their shadow on this one?
That wouldn't they be the same people, And just in
general social media that would crush him if he starts
owing too and looks bad, Like these guys are gonna
work out. Most younger people are not terrified of this
virus like some seem to be on social media. That
that's just a fact. And to like some jobs, I
think it's easy for people that are able to work
from home or in a situation that's pretty shelter to

(01:02:44):
to shame other people like Tom Brady doesn't have a
choice for the only way they can improve and practice
is with in those situations. And I listen, I have
no issue. I think you'd be naive, Like what do
you think the NBA players have been doing forever? Like Bunny,
he'll positive he's been playing in that Oklahoma league for
the last month. Like these guys are playing. That's what
these guys do. They play, you know, I don't. I

(01:03:07):
don't really get it. Plus, I mean, like the best
way to to fight off the virus is to exercay
healthy is to exercise. And in addition to the fact
that you don't fit in the demographic that's most in danger. Right,
you have the best medical care, you got to exercise,
and yeah, maybe you end up end up contracting. Do

(01:03:28):
you what do you think the season looks like? I mean,
I I get a little less confident every day. I've
been saying from the jump football, of all the sports,
it's just the the least compatible with social distancing. I
mean literally, like drills in football are fly to the ball,
everybody on defense, mega tackle right, five guys hit four

(01:03:51):
guys on every play in the line of scrimmage. The huddle,
which has become less I guess relevant over the years,
but still in the NFL, you huddle sitting standing right
next to each other. Well, the guy calls the place,
your sideline are guys all together in different little units.
Your coaches in the box are all sitting right next
to each other. Uh. These I think sometimes because like Vans,

(01:04:12):
see some of the pictures of these colleges that have
these extraordinary, you know, infrastructures of their facilities, the NFL facilities.
Unless you're like Jerry Jones, it doesn't make that much sense.
You only got fifty three guys. You're not recruiting money talks.
I mean they were. The facilities have gotten better, but
they're not enormous. You know, A quarterback meeting room is

(01:04:33):
like the size of the office I'm sitting in right now,
which is not that big. Like that, you don't need
that much space. So Hardball and McVeigh and I think
every coach is thinking this have gone on the record
saying it's humanly possible to do this. So if we're
just gonna operate like normally and just try to be
very safe, right test, Uh, do everything possible with not
allowing people that we don't know in these environments. That's

(01:04:56):
the best they're gonna be able to do. Because you
can't have, like, you know, a quarterback meeting room wherever
quarterbacks in a different room. Right, you can't practice football.
I played golf last week with a high school coach
and he's like, we tried to do a workout, but
we weren't even allowed to have football. So it's like
we we got about thirty minutes in realized we're not
even really being that productive. Um, just kind of stupid.

(01:05:17):
Uh to a come more, Um, donal call our guest
three ounce the podcast A gotlip show Fox Sports Radio.
Is Lamar and the Ravens are they that much? Can
they can they withstand what's likely coming, which is an
adjustment to what Baltimore is doing. Like I don't know
if they caught everybody off guard, but it's so different
from the rest of the league and how you put

(01:05:38):
together a defense. Um and I don't know of Pittsburgh
and Cleveland and Cincinnati. You know, if they can put
together their defense, suspend and change, considering it's only one
game a year of a team that's gonna play that way.
But is Lamar that much better than those who have
come before him? And run some sort of similar style
in order to to Ton tinue to evolve as a quarterback.

(01:06:02):
I think the one thing always rings true if you
are a dominant passing player, like a paid manning Tom Brady,
you know, far Rogers, whatever, you're always it's impossible to
keep it like that guy is always gonna have an advantage.
But when running for your team is your huge advantage,
teams can slow that down. And back to the Niners
that second year, once Colin kaepern It kind of took

(01:06:23):
the league by storm, their defense was elite. I think
they were like a top two or three scoring defense
in the league, so they could win games like seventeen thirteen. Right, Eventually,
they're gonna at least maybe not stop the running game,
because the running game, they got good running backs. Lamar
is a great runner, but they're not gonna run for
two yards on everybody. I mean, there were games last
year you look up and be like, this is a joke.

(01:06:44):
I mean, this looks like a high school game. That's
gonna slow down. And to me, if he he just
has to improve like second and third and long, you know,
against good teams, because that's killed him in the playoffs, right,
he has not been able to convert on third and
long in the playoffs. The Chargers what they do put
all those dvs on the field two years ago, and
the Titans just kind of did the same thing, like

(01:07:05):
you're not gonna be just running the football in the
regular season. That hasn't been a problem for them in
the last two years. But I do think they need
to find a way because their talent is pretty immense.
In in quote unquote blowout games or games where they
kind of have a lead, to just force Lamar to
just work on throwing, you know, because you can only
do so much in practice because you can't hit anybody.
And this year with Corona, who even knows how you're

(01:07:26):
gonna practice. But in these games, if you get in
situations on second and third and long when they would
normally run it and then gash and get easy first
down still like second and eight, it's not a problem
for them. They can run the ball, throw the ball
and just work on that when you're playing the Bengals
or you're playing a team that's not as good as you,
because that's that's been their achilles heels so far the
last two years when they've had home playoff games, right,

(01:07:47):
it's not like they've they've been the favorite in playoff
games and they lost the wild cards. They lost the
two wild card teams at home, and it wasn't and
it was and it wasn't crazy. Neither game was crazy
competitive either, Like yeah, yeah, it's it's a um okay,
who'd you who would you like in golf this week? Uh?

(01:08:10):
You know, I like d Shambo, But watching him, he
just he just swinging, you know, he looks like Ray
Lewis out there and he's swinging a tad bit too
hard and the ball starting to fly all over the place,
So I think he needs to tone it down a
little bit. Yeah, he's questioning it, um. And then have
you figured out I was watching your your your your,
your twitter feed? Have you figured out like what the

(01:08:31):
real information like? I'm I'm with you. The best point
you made was I don't know who to like. How
are we in this place where there's no reasonable information
that you can actually count on on COVID nineteen it
is kind of crazy because at least with sports, we
have something to watch, and whether you agree or disagree
with someone, you can feel pretty confident in in the

(01:08:52):
opinion you want to take on this one of us
or not. Have nothing to do with the medical field, right,
you go to a doctor, you have no clue when
you're asking him questions. You're just praying he's gonna know,
and he typically does. And on this one, every day
we read something, and I think people on social media
love to act like they're all these extremests. Most people

(01:09:12):
just want to do the right thing and want this
to end, but they just don't know who to listen
to because every day it's a different angle. And I
think I think I speak for at least all my
friends I think most people are lost, like you know,
they'll they're just trying to do the right thing. I
think most people everyone wears a mask. That has to
Maybe in California it's not a bigger problem. We wear
a mask inside. But I don't know, man, I don't.

(01:09:34):
I can't even pretend to act like I know more,
feel more confident where we're headed than I did two
and a half months ago, which is crazy. I thought
it was getting better. Now it feels like everyone's freaking
out again. It does. Last thing drink of choice on
the weekend is what tequila soda? Tequila soda I've never had.
I've never had it was okay, vodka soda, I've never

(01:09:55):
had tequila soda. Well, it was vodka soda forever. And
this girl I was dating, she's like, I'm telling you,
tequila is a little bit more of a happy drink
and margarite is a little too sugary for me. So
I started going tequila soda with the lime. And it's
not bad. That's that, Okay. I got I gotta, I
gott a couple. Do you like coffee? Love coffee? Okay?
Kalua Collins, So you started drinking early no, no, no no,

(01:10:18):
no no. I'm just saying like I love the taste
of coffee and and during quarantine, like you know, cocktail
and night's fine, like you know, everybody everybody know it's
like cocktail night. But then you just you know, we
went through the we did I've done the I mean,
like you name the drink. Yeah. I was a mule
guy for a long time. Then you get you're like, oh,
I can't have another mule like the ginger beer thing

(01:10:40):
or whatever, you know, And I'm with you with the
sugary drinks. You know, I had a Greyhound the other
night at at Collins plays Kalua Collins is that I'd
recommended maybe it stop buying to look it up and
make it. Write that down. I'm gonna try it. Kalua Collins.
Have a good weekend, dude, great stuff, all right. That's
a that's John And be sure to catch the live

(01:11:02):
edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three
p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the I Heart Radio app. Get your free credit score
card day if you're not to discover Customer if it
includes your Phyco credit score. Checking your scorecard won't hear
your creditl or more discover dot com slash credit score
card limitations apply every day. This time, we like to
play for you a portion of a previous show on
Fox Sports Trade or Fox Sports when we call it.

(01:11:27):
This was Colin Cowherd on his top five armed talents
in the NFL what I call arm talent feathery soft
on the deep ball. Receiver gets hit instride. You don't
set receivers up to get smoked. We make eye contact.
You lead me regularly. Here's my guys when I watch

(01:11:48):
NFL games. Russell Wilson, I think throws the most catchable
deep ball easily in the NFL. I don't think it's close.
Brady and Breeze almost always hit a guy in perfect stride.
I think Kyler Murray throws the tightest ball in the league,
and I think Goff maybe second in the league in

(01:12:09):
the deep ball. It is just I mean, honestly, it's
a down comforter. It's a pillow to me. Now this
will go out digitally and I'll get crushed for this
because everybody's what about Mahomes. Mahomes is just the most
talented person in the world playing quarterback. He's got a
big arm, he could throw it sideways. He doesn't look

(01:12:31):
at you, but at times he can be a little
litle radic. Sometimes the strongest arm in the league. Brett Farr,
big bend, Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Carson Wentz. That doesn't
always mean it's the easiest ball to catch. Um okay,
I mean that would take Josh Allen out of it
in terms of arms strength, right. I actually think a

(01:12:54):
guy I've been critical of in terms of his accuracy
throws a great deep ball is Lamar Jackson. Like Lamar
Jackson was about as good a deep ball as you're
gonna find. Lark Jackson's thing is outside the numbers. It's
you know, it's it's kind of like we were talking
about with Mentlecoff with with Kaepernick, like wheel routes and
outside the number of throws, like oh, I mean, there's

(01:13:14):
a reason they were playing with three tight ends. He
needs a big catch radius. But then the reason they
got Hollywood Brown is somebody take the top off the
defense and that guy can throw it a mile and
usually pretty accurate in his deep ball throws. It's the
underneath stuff and then sometimes like shortenerneath of Lamar can
pop up bad accuracy for no reason at all. It's
just bizarre. Um. But he has Drew Brees on the list,

(01:13:36):
and you know Collins, my boy. But the reason he's
gonna get killed is he has not because he just
doesn't have Pat Mahomes. But he has Tom Brady and
Drew Brees in the list. And Tom Brady doesn't throw
the ball downfield almost at all anymore, and Drew Brees
never did. And Drew Brees does not have a great arm,
and he look his arm has improved since the shoulder

(01:13:58):
and playing indoors in New Orleans, but he doesn't have
I mean, now Teddy Bridgewater the fewest yards per past.
But though that's that's not a great list. He did
have Russell Wilson, he did have Kyler Murray. There's you know,
Matt Stafford. There's a great deep ball. Um. I would
put Lamar on that list. And I can't believe he's

(01:14:19):
taking deep balls and accuracy. And he didn't have Aaron Rodgers, Like,
come on, dude, what are we doing? What are we doing?
Come on the next It has been seventeen years since
Lebron and the league. What did you know find out
be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific.

(01:14:39):
What I Tug Gotlip Show, Fox Smarts Radio. When Um,
when you roll out wake up in the morning, do
you ever do that? This day in history thing? We
have him now on our Instagram memories on your Facebook, right,

(01:15:05):
do you ever do that this day in history? If
you look back June on this date UM, the New Jersey,
the Atlantic City Boardwalk was open to the public. It
was in the Atlantic City. That was eighteen seventy, eighteen seventy.
There's a lot of political stuff ran UM their ninety

(01:15:28):
six Franklin Donald Roosevelt was nominated for a second term
of office by the delegates of the Democratic National Convention
UM nineteen sixty three. There's two speeches that John F.
Kennedy is most known for. Sager. Do you know de
Sager is a pretty very bright educated man. Right? Oh, actually,

(01:15:51):
I guess three. There's the three line. Okay, so what
what what are the what are the lines? You most know?
John F. Kennedy, that's not what you can can do
for you, but that's what you can do for your country. Right.
And also about landing a man on the moon and
bringing him home safely. By the end of the decade,
we have we have nothing to fia but fea itself. Right.
That was John F. Kennedy was Kennedy. That was that
was Roosevelt. My bad, my bad. Okay, So he's a

(01:16:13):
pearl harbor, I assume, right, okay, So uh Kennedy was
um uh asked not what your country can do for you,
but asked what you can do for you? Catchy. But
there was also the it it been I am a
blinard you when that was? That was early sixties with
the wall nree today mhm today, Um, let's see here. Uh.

(01:16:42):
And in two thousand three, this happened with the first
pick in the two thousand and three n v A draft,
the Cleveland Cavaliers select Lebron James. Now, look, I know

(01:17:03):
it's Ariana ground his birthday today. Shout out to Ariana.
All right, I'm aware. Uh. Gretchen Wilson turned forty six today.
But this is Derek Jeter. Yeah, jeets Derek Jeter forty
six today. But today was the day that Lebron James
was drafted. And it's also the day that Lebron James
had the decision in two thousand and ten. The answer

(01:17:26):
to the question everybody wants to know, Lebron, what's your decision? Um?
And this fall, man, this is very tough. Um and
this fall, I'm gonna take my town as to South
Beach and um joined the Miami Heat. Miami Heat. That
was the conclusion you woke up with this morning. That
was the conclusion I woke up with this morning. So

(01:17:47):
we look back. That was ten years ago today, ten
years ago. Ramos, where were you ten years ago today
when when the decision came down? Do you remember? Uh?
To otherland ten, I was here at Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
Well your immediate reaction when he went to Miami. I
was shocked. I thought he was staying in Cleveland, all right. Uh,

(01:18:07):
Steve to Seger, what what what was your what? What
did you think when he made that decision? This show
is too long? Oh? Yeah, yeah, Um okay. I think
the general reaction was, oh, this is almost like cheating.
They're just they're grouping together. We hadn't seen that at
the time. Well we had, um, I mean, the Celtics

(01:18:31):
had a natural in the eighties by regular trade, you know,
what I mean, and draft natural big three as it were. No,
they didn't Lakers regular I'm sorry in the eighties, the
Celtics that won the NBA championship, that was not a
natural that they get. They got Kevin Garnett and then

(01:18:51):
get eventually got Ray Allen had to to go with
Paul Pierce, and they drafted Rondo right that was there,
but Rondo was three. That was two thousand nine. We had, um,
we've seen some of it before we got I mean,
like look the Lakers at the end of their run
with Shack and Kobe. They got kar Malone and they
got Gary Payton. We had seen that, um. But yes,

(01:19:14):
putting together a team, I mean, the big part about
that team that was interesting with Miami was and I
feel like I'm sometimes I'm the only guy who sees this.
The best teams in the Eastern Conference were the Celtics,
the Calves, Um and then then there's the The Heat
had had a bunch of injuries the year before. The

(01:19:36):
Raptors were like a just a playoff caliber team, and
so by Lebron joining the Heat, you pull out the
legs from under the Calves. They went from being a
championship contender in the Eastern Conference finals to you know,
a total you know, an awful team. They they scrapped
it and went to the Jordan's right right right, um,

(01:19:59):
and then Toronto, which was a playoff team. You take
bossh Off and then you add him and now and
then of course then they add the next year they
added Ray Allen and now they had they had, uh,
they'd put the steak in the heart of the Celtics,
the Celtics who were older, and that that was a
very short run. That was done once Ray went to Miami.

(01:20:20):
And then they had pulled out the legs from the
Raptors and from the Calves. So not only did they
become dominant, but the East became, you know, much more manageable. Right.
It was really Indie and the Celtics, and that's it.
In order to compete with them and the Celtics. It
was only a year or two in which there was
really competitive even even to get there. You look at

(01:20:41):
the time, I was uh working at ESPN, and I
was covering for Jim Rome on his TV show, and
remember what watching and I just thought it was really weird,
really weird. They was going to Miami. I thought he
would go to the Knicks. I thought he would go somewhere.
And actually, three days before I was walking with Scott

(01:21:02):
Van Pelt across the ESPNS campus and Chris Carter stopped
us and he's like, He's going to Miami. We're like, what,
like Lebron, He's going to Miami. I just got a
call from somebody, big, big, big big. He's going to
Miamis three days before. Mind you and Scott and I
kept we talked for a little bit. He kind of
told us about it. We kept walking. Have you guys

(01:21:23):
been to Miami Rama's Rama's hasn't traveled for twenty years
to say, have you been to Miami? I have not? Okay, Gavin,
you've been to Miami. I have not been to Miami. Okay.
I'm gonna say this for everybody, Okay, because I don't
like the idea of leaving your team. I don't love
the idea of leaving your hometown. I didn't like that.
He didn't call it. Dan Gilbert just sent him a

(01:21:44):
text at the time. But if you've ever been, if
you think about it, you grew up in Akron, you
play in Cleveland. You know now you're in your mid twenties,
you've got a ton of money. If you've ever been
to Miami, been to South Bead Like, look, when these
guys go and play in Miami, playing South Beach like
South Beach is incredible, and it feels like you're in
a different country. It really feels more like South America then,

(01:22:06):
and like Europe and South like a South am like
a really nice Argentina sort of feel to it more
so than anywhere else in the country. And like a
modern Cuba is what you're saying. Yeah, and I get it,
Like if you didn't go to college, that's your four
years of kind of going to college right where you

(01:22:27):
can go to parties any night if you want, right,
and people are wearing better clothes and they're driving fancy
car when you're when you're in Cleveland and drive a
nice car, like, look, there are people with nice cars
in Cleveland, and people make a lot of money. But
there's lots of people where that that drive, you know,
like an escalator is a really nice car in Cleveland,
whereas in Miami it's kind of over the top. It's

(01:22:47):
a very showy area a lot like southern California where
I live. But if you haven't if you just visited
that like that kind of that's good. I get it.
Then you throw in pat Riley's one championships before, and um,
see to have a great vision. You throw in Dwyane Wade,
who had been friends with you know, it's the idea
of something new. I look, I actually ten years removed

(01:23:09):
from from from it. At the time, I made fun
of it because I didn't like a superstar in sports
going to a not really basketball town. But I understand it.
Everyone needs that time away from home to kind of
grow up and mature. And I think that happened from
for Lebron. And and look, let me give him credit.
Since two thousand three we entered this league. He had
everything thrust upon him, and you know, he said some

(01:23:32):
dumb things. He's he's he at times he shuts people down.
You know, he's done some things that I don't think
are great. But there wasn't any ever a point to
where I would say, like that's a bad guy. Like
he's a good dude. He's not the greatest player I've
ever seen, but he's a magnificent basketball player. You know,
he's not the great leader I've ever seen, but he's

(01:23:52):
a magnificent leader. He's not the greatest human I've ever seen,
but he's a magnificent human. He seems like he has
in many ways his heart in the right place, trying
to help his his friends achieve something great as well
as him to achieve something great. And like we've all
anyone who has gotten a big job, you get a
bunch of pressure, and you have the pressure performed to

(01:24:14):
keep getting that that next job, that next job, at
next job, and we're not always going to live up
to that pressure, but to never falter in terms of
who he is. And look, there's obviously some arrogance there
on the shop. One time he said, you know, when
we came back from three games, the one I knew
was the greatest player ever. Like, look, there's some arrogans there,

(01:24:34):
but I it's it's pretty amazing that, like Tiger Woods,
from a very young age, we were told this dude
from Akron, Ohio would be the next great basketball player,
and he has been. And unlike Tiger, he did not
have a father in the home like so he had
to learn from other mentors. He had to learn as
he goes. He's had to make some of these mistakes

(01:24:55):
on his own, you know, and and I think the
idea of the decision in to donate the money was
a good one. To Grantwich, Connecticut felt weird to not contact,
you know, to not contact Dan Gilbert or not contact
the kas and give him the heads up like that's
not But if you if you don't have the person,
the right person to listen to who tells you that

(01:25:16):
you you don't know to do it. So I just
I sit here and think seventeen years, in ten years
since the decision, we start to have a greater different
sense of who this guy is. Um at the time
I thought it would work. It did work. Anyone who
says like, well the only won two championships, do you
know how hard as one championship? And they had the
four NBA finals in four years and that was perfect right.

(01:25:39):
That was him growing up, that he came back home,
he made good in his hometown, and now he's trying
in l A Like I don't like the message it's
sent to others in the NBA and all of this
player movement. I don't because I do think that this
is a lot like the Kaepernick story and other stories.
Every story has its own kind of unique nuance to it.

(01:26:00):
I've always given him a whatever you call pass or
supported him going to Miami because he was drafted and
lived in the same area for like twenty five years
and became this megastar, and you want to try and
see something new. I get that. Maybe eventually you move
back when you want to try and see something new.
So UM, I don't know. I'm left with this sense

(01:26:23):
and feeling that that I get it. I got it
some then and I understood it. I don't think it
should be used as the model for every other guy,
because every other guy doesn't get drafted by his hometown team,
achieve a level of stardom, hit a ceiling, goes somewhere else,
then come back win a championship, and then still have

(01:26:44):
one last run in him. Every story is different. It's
very very different. John Honder from the Athletic Joints is
next I'm gonna talk about. We'll have a discussion about
the NBA's plan to resume their season amid the virus.
How does it affect the basketball? Is this a legit championship?

(01:27:06):
And does Avery Bradley staying home really hurt Lebron's chance
of winning that? That that next title. We'll ask him next.
Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter Noon Pacific, Doug
Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Man, there's some really good

(01:27:32):
stuff here. Um we There was a conference call earlier
with the Commissioner of the NBA and uh, the Commissioner
of the n B A Adam Silver I said like, look,
I know you get basically, hey, look it's positive tests,
but we cannot run the virus. We feel pretty confident
in the in the bubble idea. I don't not because

(01:27:54):
I'm I'm not gonna be callous. I think the the
spiking of of the COVID nineteen is because we probably
opened up too soon. It's really hard to tell based
upon the numbers and the data. Are these asymptomatic cases,
symptomatic cases where the hospitalization, where the desks will have

(01:28:14):
to keep these numbers that spike when somebody tests positive.
You don't know for a week or a couple of
weeks in terms of how bad the case actually is. Okay,
let's hope everybody's fine. It's asymptomatic. We get here, you know,
do I I don't think that it's really dangerous to
NBA players that there hasn't been or two NFL players

(01:28:35):
or two MLB players this. It's not like they're not
sixty years old, so they're not. I don't. I don't.
I don't feel that way, And I'm concerned more about
the quality of basketball. Just because you're in a bubble
and you're staying at a hotel. It's your whole rhythms
thrown off, Like how much work can you get in

(01:28:57):
as you do that for a week? Okay, little different,
two weeks? All right, it's hard. But the end of
two weeks, you want to do you want to you
want to be away from everybody in your team a month. Man,
that's a long time. Even we had Jack mccaluman, we
should pull this sounds. We had Jack mccalluman who wrote
a book about he he had the tapes on the

(01:29:17):
Dream Team and he wrote a book about the Dream Team,
and he was telling us like, remember this is Jordan
and Barkley and Bird and Magic and how great they
got along. That was the whole stories. They didn't want
Isaiah because the chemistry. But at the very end it
started to get a little dicey because guys have egos.
I just I do think that takes away from that

(01:29:40):
takes away from from what the product is actually gonna be.
John Hollinger is our guests. He's a senior, uh senior
NBA columnists for the Athletic Course, the former vice president
of Basketball opractions for the Grizzlies. And if you like
game score, you got the Hollinger game score. It's widely
used around basketball in the analytics world. It's one of
the the easiest way to tell historically how effective, how dominant,

(01:30:06):
how efficient a player actually was. John holl Andrew joins
us in the Doug Outland Show on Fox Sports Radio. Um,
what are your thoughts on the on the bubble in
terms of how this all will affect the actual level
of play? Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me.
And I'm a little concerned, especially over a period of time.

(01:30:28):
I mean, you you pointed out obviously you played at
a much higher level than I ever did. But uh
that if you've been there six weeks, eight weeks, like
the monotony, the malaise, like how it could have an impact.
I'm interested though, because travel is subtracted out of this,
and that's another part of this that's really hard, especially

(01:30:49):
at the NBA level. I think people don't realize you
go on road trips with the team a lot of times,
you get into your hotel three am. Uh, different city,
time change, all of that. You don't have that factors.
So that's kind of an offsetting thing. And then obviously
there's this other thing that we don't really know how
to measure, which is these guys are being asked to

(01:31:10):
go zero to fifty pretty quickly after not doing a
whole lot for three months. And it's not even like
a regular off season because they haven't been able to
play five on five in a lot of cases, or
get their usual workout with their usual trainers. So this
is really new territory for everybody. It really is. Um,
how much do you think the loss of Avier Bradley

(01:31:30):
will hurt the Lakers? Uh, that's an interesting question. Uh.
It sort of depends how they go about replacing them.
When they slay Alex Caruso, their their lineups have been
really good, so if he swallows up a lot of
those minutes, I think they might be okay. Uh, if
they feel like they need to move those minutes more
to their veteran guys. I would I would question that

(01:31:54):
a little bit and and wonder a little more about
the impact of it. But so they they begun games
with him as a as a stopper, especially against the
elite guards, and you could see how it might impact
them in the series against Houston, especially not not having him,
because he'd he'd be really good to put on one
of Harden or Westboro, and so they wouldn't have that

(01:32:16):
element against most of the other opponents are likely to
play like against the Lakes, the Clippers, or the Box especially,
I'm not sure he becomes as important. Yeah, I listen,
I think, and and look. I love Caruso. He has
shown some reluctance to even look at the basket in
some of the bigger games. He just doesn't have a
lot of and and that's the one thing we can't
account for, right, Like, what does he play like in

(01:32:38):
the in the white hot, bright lights of of an
NBA playoff or final series. On the other hand, we
don't know what anyone will play like in what what
we assume will be the sterile environment of these finals
or these NBA playoffs. So even the data we have
and the feeling we have about Lebron's experience or Kauais

(01:32:59):
experience or Paul George's experience. This will be a completely
new experience to everybody. And so I don't know how
you how you formulate or calculate what things will look like. Yeah,
I have a feeling the younger guys are going to
be at a little bit of an advantage just physically
their ability to come back and and kind of ramp
up quickly. I think is is a little better and

(01:33:22):
gives give will give most of them an advantage. I say,
this is somebody with a fair amount of experience at
being old. Um, so you know, we'll see, but that
would be my suspicion that the younger guys will come out,
especially these eight games in the first round of that
they're playing to complete the schedule, and probably even into
the first round, that that the younger guys will have

(01:33:43):
a leg up on the veterans. John Hollands, you're joining
us on the Doug Gotlic Show, a senior NBA columnist
for The Athletic. Are you going into the bubble? No,
I think I'm gonna sit this one out. Yeah, there's um,
they're they're still working out all how all the media
will work. So a lot of that is still up
in the air, but I would I would say more

(01:34:05):
likely than not. I will. I will not be going
down there, and I'll be watching it off TV like
everyone else. Apparently there's gonna be some media presence, but
it's going to be pretty limited. I think a lot
of even a lot of the TV announcers are gonna
be calling games off the screen. Yeah. I was told
they'll be calling the games off of screen while quarantining,
with the hope that by the time they get to

(01:34:26):
the conference finals, everybody will be cleared and then they
can kind of go and have more of a regular broadcast.
We'll we'll see if that that plan was a couple
of weeks ago when I was when I was told
about it. John Hollinger joining us here in the Doug
Gotlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. Um, Look, the analytics
world loves the Milwaukee Bucks, but we just haven't seen

(01:34:48):
their their coaches, teams, or the Bucks themselves. We haven't
seen it work in the playoffs. And I will grant
you there are other factors at play here. What's your
level of confidence that the Bucks they are one of
those younger teams, they were the dominant team in the
East that that can translate and get them to an
NBA finals in the bubble. Yeah, it's interesting because they
were they were humming along last year. They were up

(01:35:09):
to oh On Toronto and really had Toronto on the
ropes in Game three, and then once they kind of
let them back in, they just couldn't couldn't grab it
back and they lost four straight games. I think the
Kauai Leonard matchup is still the one that's pretty confounding
for them if they were to play the Clippers in
the finals, because he's shown that he can guard Joanna's

(01:35:29):
well enough they don't really need to send a lot
of help. And that takes away a lot of the
three pointers that the Bucks that the Bucks get, uh
and and some of their easier opportunities and puts a
lot of pressure on their secondary guys then, And so
I would worry about playing the Clippers if I was Milwaukee.
I think they're gonna have a pretty solid advantage against

(01:35:50):
everybody else. I think Janice is just such a mismatch
against everybody else, uh that that that that really gives
them an upper hand that that's tough for almost any opponent.
To deal with, But I would worry about the Clippers
if I were now. I think Kauai is the one
guy who's shown he can really uh take that matchup
to neutral and then let the other four guys kind

(01:36:11):
of beat the other four Bucks. Who is the one
team in the East who you would be least surprise
if they took down the Bucks in the playoffs? I
would probably say Boston, just because I think they can
put a really good five out there at the end
of games like that. Their depth is definitely a concern,
But when you get into the game six, game seven

(01:36:35):
lateness series, your five best players are playing forty plus
minutes usually, so I would I would say them, but
they gotta get by Toronto first. I think that Boston
Toronto second round series. I hope that's what we get
will be absolutely epic. I'm so excited for that. John Hollands,
our guest on the Doug Gottlip Show here on Fox
Sports Radio, I mentioned that today is the seventeenth anniversary

(01:36:58):
of Lebron getting drafted, the tenth anniversary of the of
the decision. Um. You know your your game score is
widely regarded as the way to judge uh somebody's effectiveness
and dominance in a in a game. For people who haven't,
who haven't, who don't understand just how dominant and how
consistently dominant Lebron has been, how would you how would

(01:37:22):
you kind of characterize to the average fan, hey man
from the analytics world, here's who Lebron has been for
seventeen years. Yeah, I mean he's he's been a top
five player in the league every single year basically for
an insanely long amount of time. I mean, really care
care affuls of bar is the only one who can
who can both kind of the same longevity as a

(01:37:45):
player at this high level for this for this long
and then his peak was also awesome. Uh, like my
player efficiency rating, the highest rating of all time was
Michael Jordan in his prime years and then Lebron almost
called um in a couple of his years in Cleveland,
and uh, you know, for him to be playing at

(01:38:06):
this level even now, where he's clearly a top five
MVP candidate and may very well end up in the
finals again, is unbelievable. Okay, so when when the decision
came down, were you d s you're ds filming the decision? Game? Now,
are you. Uh, yeah, I was the yeah, the years
from together year, but yeah, yeah, I was. Would you
think that when it happened that you know, that was

(01:38:30):
crazy because they kept it such a secret. Uh, nobody
totally knew what he was gonna do. I was still
a little shocked just because he's he's from Ohio, you
know that that That was the one thing that really
threw me. If it, if it if it was somebody
who didn't have that in his background, I wouldn't have
been a surprise. And I was not sure he'll go
to Miami or l A or something. But for him

(01:38:52):
to leave Cleveland like that, being from there, I think
was what made it so shocking. Yeah, and then but
now I was just saying before he came on, I
was saying how at the time it was shocking, but
then now you look back at it and having you know,
you spent some time in Miami, you spent some time
in Cleveland, And if your whole life you're in Cleveland
and Akron, Ohio, you're never gone away to college and

(01:39:12):
you're like, and you've only visited Miami right as a
as a millionaire. Four years away in Miami does almost
seem like that coming of age. I get it actually
makes makes a lot more sense to me now than
it did at the time. That's a really interesting perspective
on it, because I haven't thought about that because most guys,
obviously when they get drafted or when they when they

(01:39:33):
go to college too, they go away from home, right,
Like that's that's the usual right of passages. That's when
you go away either your your your college or your
first job. Right. And he did neither of those things
because he cut drafted out of high school by his
hometown team. So I had I had never considered it
that way. That's really interesting. Yeah, and then he trying

(01:39:54):
to came come back, and then he came back to
his hometown, he wins the title, and now he's now
he's a professional. Now he's trying to set up kind
of rest of his life. And actually, you know that
when I take a breath, at the time, I don't
think I had that same perspectives, like why are you
going to Miami and it's such a non basketball town,
such a weird fit um, and and that it makes
a lot more sense to to to me now. John
Hollands are our guest in the Doug gottlip Show. I

(01:40:16):
had this thought. Look, I think Zion has a chance
to be an unbelievable player as a small ball five,
like the way the league is trending. If he can
continue to develop his perimeter shooting skills, if he can
continue to lose some weight and not get hurt. These
are big things because he hasn't played a ton of

(01:40:38):
time without getting hurt over the past couple of years. Um.
But I think the bubble hurts him. And here's why.
I'm willing to believe that he, like most of these guys,
stayed in shape and that he'll have time to work
on his game. But we only saw him for nineteen games.
I don't know if teams are gonna be able to
actually watch in person and scout, but I would guess

(01:40:58):
that it will be harder to get your work in.
It's a lot of games on that body that hasn't
shown the ability to withstand that type of beating. But
more than anything, teams are gonna be able to see
how you want to guard him and adjust and make
him shoot and and keep him away from the rim.
I think this. I actually think he may struggle a
little bit in the bubble. Am I crazy possibly, you know,

(01:41:20):
it's not it's it's that it's so many games so quickly. Um,
And they've been pretty careful with him up until up
until this point. Uh, in terms of the load they
put on him. I'm I'm actually wondering how many minutes
are he gonna play? Is he going to play all
eight games? And they may end up pulling him too.
It's gonna be interesting. If they don't make up some

(01:41:42):
ground here, they might not even get to a playing
game because they have to finish ahead of Portland, Sacramento,
San Antonio and they have to stay within four teams
of the Grizzlies just to get to a playing game
for that eighth seed. So there's there interesting questions there
about how they can manage his minutes. But man, I mean,

(01:42:03):
I don't know if you're able to see him in
preseason or not. But but but before they held him
out like he they played Utah, They they played him
at five Like you said, they had Rudy Cobert on him,
and Gobert, who's like the best defense player in the league,
could not deal with him at all. It was he
just it's have you seen him in person? Yeah? Yeah,
I mean now in person, when he walks on the floor,

(01:42:24):
you're like, kind of looks like a football player, right,
looks like you know, you ever go to like a
high school basketball game in December and the football guy
just got out of football and he goes on the
basketball and from like and then all of a sudden,
he's so crazy, explosive and unlike, you know, like, look,
Draymond could never really score in the post. He can
score in the post. Uh, he can. He can't pass
like Draymond, but he can pass and he can handle some. Um.

(01:42:45):
I just I do wonder though, how much you know
those first of the eight games, the first three or four,
there'll be a feeling out. He will probably play quite well,
but then you start to lose some of the juice
in your legs, which is most of his game right now,
and then teams adjust to you. I wonder how that
how that works. Speaking of the Grizzlies, an organization you
used to used to work for them as their vice president,

(01:43:07):
they kind of get screwed in this thing right where
you're letting other teams like, well, not only are we
gonna let other teams come, but they don't actually have
to surpass you in the standings to get another shot
to surpass you in the in the standings. Uh. What
what are your thoughts on how they decided the two
teams instead of going with the six team. Yeah, I actually,
I actually thought it was okay because so the Grizzlies

(01:43:30):
have an advantage in the standings, but their remaining schedule
was going to be a lot more difficult than that
of New Orleans and Sacramento in particular, so their their
advantage in the standings probably was made it look a
little more like they were a little more solid in
that eight spot, and maybe they really were. So I'm

(01:43:51):
actually okay with this. They get too as long as
they hold on to eight, they get two shots at
winning to play on playing games. And then the other
thing is if they have to they go There are
three and a half up on these teams right now.
If they finished four and a half up, they don't
have to go to a plane at all. So if
if they just have to gain one game on these
guys uh in Orlando during this state game bubble fest

(01:44:12):
or whatever you want to call it, uh and and
they don't have a playing game at all, I actually
thought it was it was pretty fair to the grouplies.
I thought it was a little weird actually what they
did in the East, where Brooklyn and Orlando were pretty
clearly in and now they're kind of trying to drag
the Wizards into the race as as best they can. Uh,
I don't know. I thought that was a little weird.

(01:44:33):
And it was like Washington and Phoenix are the two
teams that are like, why why are they here? Why
are they doing this? I know, Well, I think what
it is is they needed exhibition games. They need all
these guys, They needed some sort of NBA games. So
you can't go zero to a hundred. It just it
doesn't doesn't work right. You needed kind of some ramp
up there and it allows you. There's just a disparity
between the really good teams and these teams, and this

(01:44:55):
was a way to get just enough decent teams kind
of down there. I'm disappointed to and Kyrie aren't playing
UM one one one more real quick. Obviously Durant and
Kyrie coming off of injury. How they look next year?
What are your thoughts on Golden State and the likelihood
that they're competitive at the top of the NBA next year.
I mean, I think they'll certainly be competitive. I just

(01:45:18):
don't know if we'll ever see them dominate again. Uh,
with with the age and the injuries and whatnot, I
expect Curry to still be amazing. Uh, Clay Thompson and
Draymond Green on our wrong side of thirty now they
get dollars gone. The rest of the supporting Cats, I
don't think is as good. They gotta. They got some
work to do this offseason just to kind of keep

(01:45:41):
pace with the two l A teams and the you know,
you've got the Denvers in Houston to the world lurking
in there too. I think it's gonna be a lot
harder than the last five years, where let's put it
that way. Yeah, I think there's a confluence of things though,
And you tell me if I'm wrong. John Holland our
guest and the Doug Gottlip Show. I think is this
some of it age? Yes? Is some of it that

(01:46:03):
they're they gotta You know, like when they initially took
over the league, they it was strength and numbers. They
had an unbelievable bench and that has never really been replenished.
And it's gonna be hard to do so because you
have so many you know, you're so top heavy with
the salaries. But there is also the element of the
league has adjusted to their style, right like they were
they they had small ball right now Houston's Houston's committed

(01:46:25):
to solely small ball. Everyone's trying to We talked about
the New Orleans Pelicans like they they're gonna have the
best small ball five in the league. Maybe not this
year or next year, but in years to come if
he stays healthy. There is an element to the league
either catching up to or adjusting to or adapting to
their style. No, yeah, I mean that it was called
the death lineup right when they moved Raymond to five,

(01:46:47):
and it's it's probably less deadly against teams that are
also playing smaller than it is too kind of teams
like we had in Memphis when where we where we're
playing Marcasol and Zach ran Off, the two post guys,
the whole team, and they go smaw and just run
us into the ground. Uh that that the ability to
do that is definitely lesson because as you say, the

(01:47:09):
league has adjusted, it's a you know, copycat league like
every every UH pro sports league. We'll Johny do a
great job. I can't wait to read your coverage and
and here's some of your comments on the upcoming NBA
I guess regular season and Bubble playoffs and championship. Thanks
so much for joining us on Fox Sports Radio. Thanks
for having me does all Right's John Hollander, who's just

(01:47:30):
he's fabulous, fabulous, um at at covering the NBA, of course,
us mainstay in terms of the analytics world of of
the NBA, and you can read his work in The Athletic.
The San Francisco Giants apparently found a solution two empty seats.
Wait to hear what it is is next. Be sure
to catch the live edition of The Doug gott Leap

(01:47:51):
Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio a app
every day, this time The Doug Gotlip Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Get you caught up in the stories today. We do
so by getting to the press. Get your free credit
score card today, even if you're not a discovered customer,
and include your FIO credit score and checking your scorecard
won't hurt your credit or more. Discover dot com slash

(01:48:13):
credit score card limitations apply. Steve to second what you
got my friend well, Adam One, Adam Gaze talking about
Jamal Adams, who made no longer want to be with
the Jets, his coach still wants him around, saying, yes,
I want jam All on our team. He's been one
of our best players, most consistent guys we had last year.
It's a tough part of the business, something we've got
to keep working through. He says. My relationship with Jamal

(01:48:34):
has been good since the time I've gotten there. The
San Francisco Giants will display cardboard cutouts of their fans
at Oracle Park for home games this season. They sent
a letter their season ticket holders yesterday explaining that their
home games would be played but without fans. So the
franchise then asked the season ticket holders in the Bay
area to send in images of themselves. That's amazing. That
will be placed. Marlin's will see Marlin's guy at other

(01:48:58):
stadiums if he's on the list. Yeah, he'll send a
bright orange one of himself. The Giants fan cutout program
where not only you're cut out can be there, It'll
be in front of your usual seat. That's good. That's good.
Somebody in marketing, Hey, San Francisco Giants, good job. Well,
they actually it's like what somebody else's They probably ripped

(01:49:19):
it off from England because the Premier League has already
started and Leeds United did this and at their game
last Sunday they had encouraged their fans to send in
photos to use his cutouts. But did they do the
actual in front of their actual season tickets. No, they
were just in a section and one of the photos
that was submitted was of Osama bin Laden and it
got placed in the first row along with the rest

(01:49:40):
of the fans the team batch. But you know how
to like it's ok it's okay. How does someone that young,
because you have to individually place them on the seats?
How do you not recognize that phase? That's an I
don't know how long has there Sam Bland been dead
like a decade? Right, yeah, I mean you think today?

(01:50:01):
Let me see what do you what do you guys think?
How long do you think he's been dead? Do you
want to take a guess? John? John, Yeah, I'll say
I'll say years. May second, nine years, so a year
from now, or you're gonna have a segment like the
Lebron thing today And no, no, May second, I might

(01:50:22):
might I I mean, look, it's funny. I mean the
it's funny. It got past him, Yes it is, but
I mean obviously eleven texts not funny or whatever. And
I wouldn't want I guess you wouldn't want like a
Hitler or Napoleon or some other nasty I I don't know.
It's maybe that one wasn't the one bag Dad Bob

(01:50:44):
would have been better, would have been food, would have
been funny and less. But it's okay. I like with
the Giant Ja Giants, good job. The Indie five hundred
today became the latest sporting event to say it a
welcome fans. The news is that quote. We're committed to
running the Indie five hundred Sunday, auguste. We will welcome
fans here, limiting attendance to about fifty of venue capacity.

(01:51:07):
It's a large venue. We are also finalizing the number
they say at Indie. Yeah, I don't think they'll have,
but still that'll be many more thousands than say Wrigley
Field would have, which would be maximum eight thousand. They're
talking about if they have fans because they'll always done
okay with the virus uh and also more on the
Pack twelve Oregon Oregon State uh CO announcement today that

(01:51:28):
their rivalry games will no longer be called the Civil
War The Oregon a d saying former quarterback with the Ducks,
Dennis Dixon among the leaders calling for a change. Dixon
in a video on TMZ, I am happy to see
two the universities coming together to drive change and ever
lasting change. I think they have gotten away with it,
haven't they, Because Oregon was barely involved in the Civil

(01:51:51):
War compared to the other countries, the actual one, and
so there wasn't quite the association. Maybe, but it's literally
this is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, dnnistiction.
That doesn't change anything, like that's one of those things
that you fought for. I don't just it's so silly.
I don't. That's surpressed backing out there, impressed. That was

(01:52:13):
the press. Okay, you The Civil War can mean two
different There are actually three things. It could mean the
Civil War, which it doesn't. It could mean civil war,
which is an oxymoron. You can't be civil and more
or I mean, I mean brothers fighting against each other,
which is what it means. We've reached peak idiocy. Have
a great weekend Doug out Them Show. Be sure to
catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays

(01:52:35):
at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio and the i Heart Radio app

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