April 26, 2024 • 48 mins
On a Thursday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug talks about the player that is overwhelmingly considered the favorite to go number one in the NFL Draft, Caleb Williams, and explains who the Bears are getting in the former USC quarterback.
Doug welcomes former Cardinals' GM and FSR NFL Draft Analyst Steve Keim to talk about what it is like to be a general manager going into the NFL draft and the major topics going into the NFL Draft.
Doug breaks down the Heat's upset over the Celtics in game two of their series and explains what happened to Boston.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:25):
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welcome in kids. Uh, it's Draft Day right right, It's
(00:46):
Draft Day, which is a big thing, And tonight we
got great draft coverage right here on Fox Sports Radio
starting at eight eastern, five Pacific, brought to you by
Express Pros. You know, most people think think the draft
starts at two, right, because whoever the Washington commanders take
(01:07):
then sets us in a path of what quarterback goes next,
what a quarterback goes next, et cetera, et cetera. And
that's probably mostly accurate. But I think the draft starts
obviously at one, not just because Chicago hasn't officially made
the pick, but because it does set us on this course,
and it's a very unique first overall pick in the draft.
(01:30):
By my estimation, Caleb Williams is the first of his kind.
The first of his kind. We've seen other transfer quarterbacks
go number one overall. We've seen other transfer quarterbacks who
play for Lincoln Riley go number one overall. We've seen
(01:51):
other Oklahoma quarterbacks, other USC quarterbacks. We've seen guys who
have great years whin a Heisman Trophy and then sort
of disappoint years in their final year in college go
number one overall and have varying degrees of success. What
we haven't seen is the generation of players that have
(02:12):
never been told no before. I'd never been told no before.
And that's what happens when you throw a lot of
money at people. It's really hard to tell him no
because you financially you have skin in the game. Remember
this is Caleb Williams who didn't play his high school
(02:34):
senior year because it was a COVID year. And despite that,
he's come out and said, Hey, I thought I should
have started day one, Like I was really mad I
didn't start to stay one when Spencer Ratler was there
ahead of him, and Spencer Ratler at the time was
thought to be the number one quarterback prospect in college
in America. Yeah, it took him some time to beat
him out and to get that opportunity. But the fact
(02:58):
is that the reason Caleb Williams thought for sure he'd
get to start and play right away is well, he's
never been told no before. Then his coach leaves, and
if you remember again the timeline of it, when the
initial portal window opened, he didn't transfer right away. It
took a long time to get that deal done. What
(03:20):
does that mean? It was a bidding war, And unlike
quarterbacks in previous eras, I know that Joe Burrow didn't
have to sit out, but Joe Burrow also hadn't played,
you know, and that's why he got his degree at
Ohio State. But guys had to sit out previously when
they transferred in couldn't play right away. He didn't, you
(03:42):
know why, because we don't tell these guys now anymore.
He doesn't. I mean, like listen, I don't think the
story landed well and I don't think he would ever
do it, But the fact is he would make more
money staying in college than he would play next year
in the NFL. Now, the reason that you want to
(04:03):
play in the NFL is you want to get through
that third year and get your second contract, because that's
generational wealth, the likes of which college sports to this
point cannot compete against. He's not the first transfer quarterback.
He's not the first quarterback to get paid. He's not
the first quarterback to have great success followed by a
(04:25):
disappointing season. He's not. But if you factor in all
of those things together, and then you have the eccentricities
of the fingernail polish, the things written on him, the
use of social media, some of the confidence bordering on
arrogant statements. This is a different generation of dude, a
(04:48):
different generation of dude, and that's what he represents. That's
what he represents. Remember, Eli and Peyton Manning came from wealth.
That's the first family of football. Archie is an amazing dude.
He's really well respected. Andrew Luck came from wealth. But
(05:09):
Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, you name the quarterback,
Deshaun Watson picked the number one overall pick. That that's
a bit a quarterback successful fairy doesn't matter. They may
have they came from different levels of the economy. But
(05:30):
the difference is with this one. It's not Caleb's dad
that has money. It's not his family that has money.
Caleb has money. And I'll take from Chris Carter that says.
Chris Carter always said money doesn't change you. It makes
you more of who you really are. And then you
factor in the old Mike Tyson expression saying, which was,
(05:52):
if you want to see real tragedy, give an eighteen
nineteen year old a limitless budget and not you know,
and not have their parents around and see what happens. Now,
he does have his parents in his life, but they
haven't been with him for the last two years, three years,
and he does have millions of dollars and he's basically
(06:13):
been allowed to do whatever he wants with it. And
oh yeah, by the way, you know, things are going
to get hard for the first time around. And he's
never been told no, he's never been told what you're
doing is wrong. He's going to be on his own.
He's going to be a professional. He's going to be
viewed as a guy who is arrogant or super super
(06:35):
confident and It's going to be fascinating to see how
this works out. Oh yeah, by the way, you have
a quarterback deprived city. You have a city that Chicago
has a lot of amazing things, despite the fact the
weather sucks. Even in the summer. It might be the
best summer city in America because everybody comes to Chicago
(06:56):
to go to the lake. I hope you understand that.
Right in New York, I love New York summers. A
little hot, smells a little.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Bit of urine.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
But on the weekend, you can park anywhere on the
streets because people go either to Connecticut or upstate, or
to a lake, or they go out to the island,
they go to Montauk, they go down the Jersey Shore.
They scatter you go throughout all of these cities. Miami's
too hot in the summer. Texas too hot in the summer.
(07:26):
Chicago might be the best summer city in America. They
have great sports fans, They have some great tradition with
the Bears. It looks like they're going to keep the
Bears in Chicago right by the water. All those things
are good. They no longer have the curse of the
Billy Goat. No curses with the White Sox, no curses
with the Bears, and though the Bulls aren't currently a
(07:48):
championship caliber team, they do have the Michael Jordan legacy.
Like all of these things, it's a great sports town.
It's an amazing place to live. You know what they
haven't had, they haven't had a franchise quarterback. So you
walk in with a confidence not previously seen, right, because
(08:11):
nothing gives you as much confidence as I got ten
million in the bank. If I fail, I'm rich. I'm good.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You walk in with the he's not a West Coast guy, right,
he's from DC. But the perception is you come in
from sc paint your fingernail polish, do things a little differently,
walk differently, talk differently. That gets viewed if you don't
play well on a more negative scale. More quickly, what's
(08:43):
the expression from from Bull Durham Jay stew about being
eccentric when you're in the miners?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah about foot funguses. You won twenty games on the show,
then you're eccentric. If you lose, you're just a clown
and bad fungus shoes whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, you got your you have bad, bad hygiene, you're
a slop. Right, which is the same thing for Kaileb Williams.
If you win, nobody cares literally at people champion, everybody
will start painting their nails. In Chicago, everybody start doing
the Caleb Williams whatever touchdown celebrations. But if you lose
or you're not super successful early, it's the another Mitch Trubisky,
(09:24):
California guy with the fingernail polish. He doesn't care. He's
got money. Anyway, it can be used against you. This
is a very different era we are entering into. We
have had transfers before. Obviously, We've had players that have
gotten paid before. We've had quarterbacks that have come from
affluence before. We've had guys come from Lincoln Riley's system before.
(09:48):
We've had quarterbacks that have been Heisman Truphy winners. We've
had quarterbacks that have been Heisman Trump winners and then
not been as good the next year. All of this
we've seen before. We have not seen all of these
things together in this type of pack personality. And you're
going to Chicago. It's a different deal. Twenty twenty four
is the first year of the true nil transfer quarterback.
(10:11):
And if you don't think that changes how we look
at things. I will give you one very very easy
analogy I liked. I've used this analogy for the entirety
of my time in radio, and it always works. Are
you guys familiar I know? Does anybody get the newspaper anymore?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
The physical paper?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
No, I don't know, Dan Byer, any physical paper you get.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
We somehow have gotten a subscription to USA Today because
it's on my driveway every single morning.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
It's amazing, Sam. When was the last time you got
a newspaper in your driveway?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Man?
Speaker 5 (10:45):
I mean, I subscribe to a digital paper, but I
have not probably a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
At like an airport, I've purchased a.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
My mom still gets the Orange kint Of Register in
the La Times, Orange County, Okay. But in those papers
you may remembered, on the Sunday edition they would have
the Parade magazine, and on once a year in the
Parade magazine they would have what people make, and your
entire perception of people changes based upon what Parade Magazine
(11:11):
said their field made. In Dubuque, Iowa, You're like, what
are you kidney here? A librarian in Dubuque makes seventy
five grand? Well, that's got to go a long way
in Dubuque. Right, a postal worker in Cheyenne, Wyoming makes
(11:36):
a buck twenty five, And then you start thinking, like, man,
can you imagine the weather in Cheyenwa? That goes a
long way? How long? You don't have the factors of
how long the guy's been at his job, how long
he's been doing it, what else he does, whatever, But
you read those magazines and you look at people differently, Like, Dude,
the garbage man makes one hundred grand, I don't feel
so bad for the garbage man, Like that's not a
(11:56):
bad gig, plus you get full benefits. Or if the
garbage man makes for forty grand, you're like, dude, I
feel really bad for him. I'm gonna separate my trash.
I'm gonna do it the right way. I'm gonna make
sure and for like a month, you line out your
trash perfectly. We perceive people totally different we do with athletes.
Same guy can be on a rookie deal, sciences next deal,
(12:16):
You're like, this guy's a bum, he's not worth thirty million. Well,
last year he was only making two and he was underpaid. Right.
I say that because it changes our perception of people.
And then when you have money. One everybody knows you
have money, you're supposed to dress different, act different, walk different,
(12:37):
talk different, surround yourself with better, smarter, more forward thinking people.
You're gonna be different. Once you get that first big check,
everybody is, you'll feel yourself a little bit and then
at some point, hopefully you have people around you that
help level you off. Kayleb Williams is the first, and
(12:57):
because no one really knows how much he may sc
but everybody believes that it's upwards of eight figures over
two years. He's walking in with a bunch of change
in his pocket. He's walking in with a huge social
media following. He's walking in with a perception, maybe not
a reality, but perception of being just kind of a
West Coast dude, unafraid to push the bounds of how
(13:23):
we view sexuality as well as leadership and quarterback play.
A guy who is literally irreverent, and he's going to
a place that's in the Midwest hardcore football. They've been
dying for a quarterback for fifty years. They've been dying
for a quarterback, and you better deliver, dude, otherwise it's
(13:46):
gonna be a hard run for you. Stug Gotlieb show
here on Fox Sports Radio. Reminder, we have our podcast
which follows this show. Sometimes I forget what we're doing
podcasts or we're doing radio. Thank you, Seamy, got damn
Buyer alongside Buyer. Most things you thing you're most excited
about about Tonight's draft.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Most excited about I'm just curious what the Seahawks are
going to do. Yeah, I don't will They's a weird
way of looking at it, like of one thing, like
I think we all just kind of like take it in.
I mean, if you're a fan of your team, you're
you're a You're a very big.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Am I wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Is that a weird question from Doug Jason there saying.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I specifically wore my Chargers polo today because I'm fired
up for the right tackle We're gonna hurt that time.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Of course you're excited for the Chargers. I'm you know,
excited for the Seahawks. But I'm not like man is
Malik Neighbors gonna you know, like, I think your favor
for your team, right, it's gotta gotta be what it is.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, I think so, Yeah, I I tee you up
and probably unfairly so because I did think you you
probably wonder I'm wondering aloud maybe.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
What the Seahawks are going? Like this is a whole
new Seahawks regime. Yes, right, yes, so this is so
and I get it, like their storylines like where does
Pannix go? Where does bo Nix go? Like I don't
but you know, like but I'm not, like, man, where
does bo Nix go? Like I'm like, what are they
going to trade down again? Now that Pete Carroll's not there?
How different it is?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
So?
Speaker 5 (15:11):
Yeah, so I'm I don't even know they're going to
make a pick tonight, you know, to be honest with you,
because there's been some you could trade down twice in
this draft and pick up other picks because they don't
have a second rounder. So I'm Seahawks focus tonight though.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, we'll go around the room. And by the way,
a belated happy birthday to Brody, who celebrated than your birthday.
Yesde that's three cute, cute cute. You do know you
have heard my thing about three year olds are worse
than two year olds?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Yeah, yeah, finding finding that out?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yes, he's a birthday guy, Uh, what are you gonna say?
There're jaysu.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
The terrible two is the only reason why that is
the case is because of literation. Yes, if if you
could find a literation with three, then it would become
a thing. But terrible twos is just such a you know.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Well, no, two years.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Two years old is a tough year, right, because now
they can talk, they can walk.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Probably isn't any tougher than one or three. But because
you throw the alliteration in there, it's what makes Dodger
dogs so amazing because they're Dodger dogs. Jason's obsessed with
the literation.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I think he's he has he has a point. It's
a portion of it, but a big portion of it
is kids can be a holes when they're two. Right,
it's they're they're not babies anymore, yet there's used to
being This actually is kind of parallels to college athletes. Right,
you're not babied anymore, but they still want to be baby.
(16:36):
They still and they also learn the word no. Yes,
they can use the word no, and you're like, all right,
what do I do here? He says no, Oh it's
a hard one. But they're also like rookie, this is
where I've always said two year olds are like rookie quarterbacks.
You have limited expectations of them. Like guy, he's a rookie,
I's two years old. Of course he pooped his pants.
(16:57):
You're three, You poop your pants, right when you've been
in a big boy, big girl bed. For is he
in a big, big girl bed yet? Not see a
big girl bed yet? But big boy busy? Are we
trending towards that? Are we purchasing one of those?
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Where are we at? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Yeah, well it's one of those convertible sort.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Of convertible thing convertbile crip smart purchase.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I hope you, I hope you brought. You have plenty
of water for the next three hundred and sixty five days.
Because everyone knows about the thirsty threes. You've got to
keep them hydrated. Thirsty threes.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
My bo has always been and Dan previous to him
having a child, knows that that. My point has always been,
it's about your expectations, right, And they're still three years old,
they still don't know anything. They still are just becoming
potty trained, just getting to a big boy bed. And
yet you know your expectations of them are not the
Terrible Twos because of alliteration, but also like you went
(17:51):
through the Terrible twos. Same thing with rookie quarterbacks. We
give them a pass at times, like, ah, he's a rookie, right,
Jordan Loves an example, your love was not a rookie
this year. But because this his first year, starting when
they choke and he misses some throws against the Niners
in the NFC playoffs, what do you hear everybody say,
(18:12):
Jordan loved you know, it's only his first year. It's
his first road playoff game. Next year doesn't happen anymore.
So Brody's got to come through in road playoff games.
That's pretty obvious. That's a big thing for him this
year is how does he perform on the road in
hostile environments. That's a big question I have for your son.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
This is the best of the Done Dot Lead Show
on Fox Sports.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Radio, and this I can dream about you. I can
dream about you. None is this?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Who is this?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Who's the actual singer? This is the instrumental version? Anybody?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Is it Dan Hartman?
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Is that what it was?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
You don't know? I don't know Hartman And it's Dan Hartman.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
This is just one of the songs that has your
name associated with it because you like it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I'm playing it for you.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I've never heard it plays, has never.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Been played on our show ever. Your name is literally
attached to this instrument. Maybe you're looking at the gut
leaf folder.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
I'm not calling you a liar. I'm saying we can
these things can both be true. I've done this show.
I had started ESPN. My own show was oh five,
I think, or maybe six six. I started at four o'clock.
So it's been it's been a minute. It's been eighteen
years in the afternoon time slot. This is the first
(19:41):
time I've heard any instrumental played.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, we have this conversation recently. Like you, you brought
a bunch of bumps with you to the show, and
you know, and you have your preferences. And then Ramos
mixed it in over the years. So I said to Sam,
I said, why don't we mix in some of those
old so that Doug brought. You know, thought I thought
that's what it was, but maybe be the wrong folder. No,
I think Ramos maybe liked that song a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
That sounds like it. That sounds and that's one it's
a little bit older.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Than me.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
What's his name?
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Dan?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
What Hartman?
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Does he have any other songs?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Doesn't he host a show on weekends.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Here loves La La dan.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Ah?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh that Dan Hartman. I had no idea was I
was today? Years old?
Speaker 5 (20:33):
I learned our Steve Hartman. More popular than the CBS
is Steve Hartman?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
M M.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes, Sunday Morning, Yes, Sunday Morning. Steve Hartman never watched it?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
What is it is it?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Does he do the Sunday Morning Showow?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
He's the East Coast Steve Hartman.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
No, he's he's the guy who does like the great
stories like, yeah, you know, we were here in western
Nebraska where time seems to stand still?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Can you do it again?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Can you do it?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Do you have any music for that?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
But actually, here's the deal.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
You don't need music for it, because that's how CBS
Sunday Morning goes. But not for Zachariah Wilson.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's so good.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
That gets into the whole deal.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, So Sunday Morning starts out with CBS Sunday Morning,
it ends up with like twenty twenty, and which is
always the husband or wife did it right? The ex wife,
the husband wife did it Almost always poisoned, right, And
I mean, and who's that guy? What's that guy's name?
He's got the great kind of creepy sort of voice,
(21:35):
really good.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Jay Moore used to do that voice.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
That was Keith Morrison of Dateline.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Keith Morrison, murder, God, can you give me the can
you give me a little Keith Morrison?
Speaker 5 (21:45):
No, but I could do it. I think it was
johnsh Mankowitz will talk like this. So the murder weapon
was in the bathroom pockably.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Right, murderer.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Do you know like.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I love is Jay Moore does have a kind of
a lugubrious sound, and it's like he was involved in
something he probably oughtn't to have done. Mossibly murder.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
That's really good, very very Actually he had some Keith
Morrison in the system.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah about that? There you go?
Speaker 4 (22:15):
There you go?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
That was that on the was that the on the
gotlie pile to.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Keep that dropping and then lose the Dan Hartman uh instrumental?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Is Jade and Daniels going to the commanders? That's I
think the big question, right what happens at number two?
Here's Jade Daniels talking about the possibility going the commanders
after his much reported visit with three other dudes before
the draft.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It would be fun be able to go there and
just be blessed to really just fulfill my childhood dream
whoever that is, whatever team that is. So you know,
I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
How about the whole idea of the group visit.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Some guys said they really really liked it.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Did you get a lot out of it? Yeah, for sure,
I mean, you did have fun.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It was the only visit I went to that whether
the you know, where you have to remember a play er,
you know, trying to remember astar or something like that.
So it was dope, and especially to be with guys
that I kind of moved throughout the process and before that.
So it's fine.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Stet Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Let's welcome
in Steve Khin. He's a former general manager of the
Arizona Cardinals. Of course, he selected quarterbacks in successive years,
in Josh Rosen and then Kyler Murray, who he took
number one overall, and he joins us, how did you
approach those visits with quarterbacks, especially subsequent years?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
You did it?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
How'd you approach it?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Well?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I mean I think that's a great question. I mean
Number one. The biggest thing is is the skill set
is the easiest part to identify when you see that
on tape. I think the biggest thing that you want
to get out of the interview process, or at least
I should say the in person meeting process, is certainly
to know more about the person, what makes him tick,
what the metal makeup is, how they approach the game,
(24:00):
the professionals and those sort of things, And to me
at that position, that's so critical for any kind of
success to the next level.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
What was what was Rosan like?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
You know, Josh was you know, a little intellectual guy.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I mean he really was.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
He's smart. Biggest problem I think maybe when you look
back on it is he had a lot of outside
interests and you know, whether it was you know, things
with uh, different organizations for for you know, saving the
beaches and the different things that he believed in which
were very strong in the community. But at the same time,
you know, the guys that you really, really I think,
(24:35):
are are dying to have on your team as a
leader are the ones who you know, are trying to
call the seven and sevens, the off season program stuff.
The great leaders that are you know, really their day
in and day out in the off season.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, it's interesting, right, every but everybody warned you. Everybody said, like,
really smart kid. But here's my thing with with Rosen
at the time, which was, and I got this from
another GM who was looking at him when when you
draft him, which was you know nowhere you call to
people go like Josh Rosen, I love that kid. I
love him. Right, No one disliked him. No one thought
(25:10):
he wasn't talented, smart, none of it. And a matter
of fact, when you saw him against Sam Donald against
as he like he looked like the pro Donald did
not really but but that was kind of the mo
which was nobody there was. There was no true gravitational
pull towards him. Fair.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah. Yeah, and I say that all the time. I
mean right now, I mean as you look back on
things and mistakes that you know I have made or
that I've seen people make in the NFL, is you
know there are certain warning signs and you just can't
avoid the warning signs, you know, the red flagstick. Alex.
So if i'm sometimes and the problem is that supplying
demand is such an issue. You know, I drafted, or
I should say, my first year as a general manager.
In twenty thirteen, I traded a seventh profic for Carson Palmer.
(25:50):
So in the next five success to seasons, we had
over fifty wins in five years, two time executives year.
I thought I was pretty good at this thing. Yeah,
and then all of a sudden, Bruce Arians retires and
Carson Palmer's retires, and now all of a sudden, you know,
we're in a position where you know, you don't have
a quarterback. And the quarterbacks that went before us obviously
a Baker and Josh Allen, et cetera. Uh, he was
(26:11):
the next guy up, and you know, obviously he looked
back on it. Now everybody missed on Lamar.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yep, but why why I'll just again, I'll give you
a full disclosure. I saw Lamar's last game in the
bowl game against Missippi State. He was awful. It's awesome, right.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
No, No, there were times when when you when you
studied Lamar coming out, I mean he wandered whether the
game would translate because there were some times. To his credit,
I mean, he has really become a much better pure
passer than he was. I mean he's gotten more accurate,
which I think there's any degree you can get more
accurate at this level. But he has done a good job,
and he's obviously played within the system, and they've done
a great job, you know, using his feet and his
(26:48):
legs and all the different things that he brings to
the table. And the guy's just a winner. I mean,
you can't That's the one thing about J. J. McCarthy
and tonight's draft. I mean, people can can say all
they want about the guy, but I mean, at the
end of the day.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
The guy is a winner, no question.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Stuck out Let Shore here on Fox Sportraity that voice
to Steve com You're going to hear him tonight starting
an eight eastern, five Pacific right here on Fox Sport
Trade the iHeartRadio app. Part of our coverage of the
first round of the NFL Draft is brought to you
by expresspros dot Com. Okay, so that first year, your
offensive line wasn't very good. You got a first year
(27:22):
head coach, I mean, it didn't work out well. When
was the point where you're like this, this is not going.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
To work with my quarterback, you know, I think it
was probably midway through the year, because I think you
remember Sam Bradford had gotten injured, and that gave us,
you know, a great opportunity to see Josh play and
to play a number of games regardless of the skill
set and the talent that was around them. We were
able to see the way you approached the game as professionalism,
(27:49):
all those again, all those things to me that make
quarterbacks great at this level, and the fact that we
had the number one pick, you know, and again the
biggest thing is, as much as I love Nick Bosa
and Quinn Williams, you know, to have an opportunity to
take a quarterback that I felt propel, organization, the quickness
which he did. You know, he looks back on it
(28:11):
now and Kyle's had some ups and downs. But at
the same time, I don't know that Nick Bosa Quinn
Williams were won US eleven games in year two right
the time?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
There, Yeah, no, I mean people people dismissed the fact
that you took a team that was the number one
overall at the number one overall pick one four, then
one eleven, and obviously injuries befell him and your best
wide receiver, and that that changed you dramatically. What was
different or what was your approach like with Kyler as
(28:37):
opposed to Josh, it's one year to the next. How'd
you how'd you change? How did you approach that draftic?
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Well, you know, I think number one, you know, and
making sure that everybody in the building was balled in
and they were a number two. Once we identified and
decided that he was our guy, to make sure it
was known and not only for him, but the rest
of the team, the Kyler Murray was going to be
our guy moving forward, and to give him that confidence
when we roll the ball out there like this is
this is your team, you know, regardless of the fact
(29:07):
that you're a rookie. You have guys with Glarry Fitzgerald
on your side and as your teammates, and hopefully you
use those guys, you know, to to a degree with
with their experience and some of the things that they've
been through, and hopefully that will help you becoming pro much.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Quicker Cliff's a guy who you smartly hired because, in
addition to being a good offensive coach, he had a
relationship with with Kyler, and Kyler knew his offense, so
there wasn't as steep a learning curve as there is
for so many rookies. In your mind, which of these
quarterbacks fits best with Cliff because Cliff's going to be
doing the same thing, granted as an assistant coach, but
(29:43):
with the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Well, I mean, I ideally I think it would be
kid who's gonna be the first pick in the draft
because he's already coached him for a year at USC,
But that's not going to happen. But you know, I
think Jayde and Daniels would be a good fit. I
think Jayde is the guy that has the wheels that
Cliff knows how to utilize those legs and his athleticism
as well as you know, his his ability, you know,
in some ways, in my opinion, similar to the way
(30:06):
Kyler through the football, nice stroke, very accurate, pet him
out of the pocket and let him do some things
on the move. And to me, I think Jane Daniels
is a guy who fits extremely well for what Cliff
can ask to the Douce.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Thematically, it's it's going to be fascinating to see. Obviously
you saw him when he was in college at ars
On State before he went to His improvement is dramatic.
There have been criticism of how many sacks he takes
and why is how many sacks he takes important from
an evaluator.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Size, Well, you know, I think number one, you got
a to me. In the NFL, the game becomes even
quicker and the decisions have to become faster, So you
have to not only have your feet to get you
out of trouble, but you obviously have to use your
brain to get rid of the ball and in a
quick fashion. And to me, you know, I think that that.
You know, when you take a lot of sacks, it's
(30:55):
for a number of reasons. But sometimes those guys, now
you see the more athletic quarterback, they put themselves in
a predictament. Even with Caleb Williams and some of these
guys at Kyler Murray, they get to the point where
they can almost improvise too much, if that makes sense.
You know where they get in bad habits because they're
seeking get amount of so much trouble that you know
that they're willing to take the extra chance, so they're
(31:16):
willing to hold onto the ball a little more because
they've they've been able to make things happen so much
in the past. The problem is is you get those
kind of guys at times and you're now playing behind
the stick so much because all of a sudden, instead
of being in second and four or second and six,
you're sitting back there in second and twelve or third
and fourteen. And that's not the way you can win
NFL football.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Nope, it's very, very hard to win that way. Steve
Timar guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox
Sports Radio. You mentioned JJ McCarthy. You mentioned that he's
a winner, there's no doubt about it, and he's playing
a pro style system, played for essentially a pro coach
as well. How do you balance that out with the
man they didn't even let him throw against Benn State
(31:57):
and just a lack of volume of throws in comparison
to so many others.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt his so to speak,
his work and then what you've been able to feel
on tape has not really probably been equal to a
top ten pick. Yet at the same time, you know,
and I know a lot of the scouts are you know,
have missed in the past when players like him Number one,
(32:23):
you were able to go see him in his pro workout,
and from the people that I talked about there where
they are showed much more athletic ability and arm strengthen
they anticipated and then at the end of the day
you look at the team that just all they did
was win. And the really you know, when you look
at Jim Harball's offense, they won because they can run
the ball effectively. And to me, that's the way the
NFL is built, is to be able to operate at
a high level within your offense. And I know that
(32:45):
people call him system guys. I don't believe in system guys.
To me, I think that it's just if you're not
is twitchy as talented, maybe you can identify that. There's
very few Patrick mahomes out there. But at the same time,
you all have to operate within the system. And nobody
did it better than a J. McCarthy.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
If Steve Kime was to write a book on approaching
the NFL draft, and you've done it for so long,
you know, going back to even scouting days before he
became a GM, what's the number one do and the
number one don't.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Well, the number one do is to trust your instincts
and as long as you can trust your gun and
your instincts, and and the don't is do not avoid
red flags. And again, you know you you mentioned there
were may be some red flags with Josh Rosen. There
was another guy that I drafted in the first round.
(33:35):
I think he's like picked twenty six named Robert Knbecchi.
You know, Robert was a guy I think we just
won fourteen games or thirteen games a year before went
to the NFC Championship, so we were riding pretty high,
and you know, we thought we needed a defensive tackle
that was explosive. Robert Kindichi was the guy I should
have been a top five pick athletically, but again, there
were several red flags there from his off season, his
(33:58):
work away from football, his passion, the different things that
we studied, and we felt like we tried to really
dig deep with the player. Yet at the same time,
there were enough red flags that we ignored them because
of supplying demand. And again, when you get in a
position where you're trying to you know, when you don't
have something or I should say particularly the quarterback position.
You know, when when we drafted Josh, I mean supplying demand,
(34:21):
it makes you do some crazy, crazy things because if
you don't have that one position, it can make you
do things that are not logical and that's the hardest
part to avoid.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, the Camdchi thing, and again, I know there was
some other stuff, but there was also the you know,
did he go to ole Miss? That he got paid
to go to ole Miss? Right, that's it, and it
does bring us to you know, you know, circling back
around to the Caleb Williams thing, which is this is
a different generation, literally different in that Caleb Williams walks
(34:50):
in with likely seven figures in his bank account. I
don't want to say he doesn't need football, but it's
not the same hunger passion as desire to make it
that so many others previously to him have had. There's
also social media, there's a lot of other things. How
different do you think it makes these players, considering they
(35:12):
were so handsomely compensated at the college level before getting
to the NFL.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Well, I think there's a degree of it to make
them less hungry. But I think the thing you got
to sort of dive and figure out is really what
sort of drives them regardless. I mean, you know, enough
guys and especially some of the pros that have made
a ton of money, guys like Larry Fitzgerald that I've
been around have made a gazillion dollars, but they love
They did it because they loved it, and that's the
key thing you got to figure out, you know. Robert
(35:38):
Candici is the guy who's funny. Interesting story is we're
in a draft process and we all love this talent
and his ability, and I told our defensive line coach,
I have some concerns. Obviously, these red flags are a
little scary. Certainly, don't want to put my name on
a player that doesn't love it. And I'll never forget.
He said, you know this guy that can't do it
or whatever, you know, he can live in my basement.
Well the next year, about a year later, that same
(35:58):
defensive line coach walked into mind office with Robert Canbechi said,
I can't coach this guy. What happened to your basement?
Did you get flooded?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
So funny, So funny, Steve, listen, you're an incredible asset
to have. I can't wait to listen to your coverage
tonight because it's so important, so timely, so insightful. Thanks
so much for being our guest on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Thanks Doug de choy chob Be Rocking the night Man.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Fox Sports Radio, has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Fox
sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app What
Up with You Doug Gotlib show Fox Sports Radio. I
hope you're doing well. You're coming to you from the
tyrat dot com studios. Tyrat dot com. What you get there,
unmatched selection, fast free shipping, free road has protection over
(36:41):
ten thousand recommend installers tyret dot com. It's the way
that tire buying should be. Welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome
in m m mmmm. So the draft is upon us tonight, right,
and this is again, they're all interesting ones. This one's
going to be super interesting just because there's so many
(37:05):
quarterbacks and people have all these opinions about quarterbacks. I
think it's interesting how Michael Pennick specifically, and that's why
am I forgetting the kid's name from the Michigan JJ McCarthy.
How they've skyrocketed up boards because we saw them play
(37:27):
in the National Championship Game. That's really what it comes
down to. And there's this this happens all the time.
There's the like, are they in the National Championship Game
because they have a great quarterback, or do we think
they're a great quarterback because they're in the National Championship game.
And that's a hard one. There's obviously much more on
Michael Pennock's plate than there was JJ McCarthy's plate. But
(37:50):
he also JJ McCarthy was learning a much more advanced
scheme and you had to sacrifice his ego to hand
the ball off more. That part's fascinating. I could be
the only one, but I loved the Heats win last night.
Now what I didn't like about the Heats win last
night is inevitably every fall, everybody falls back on heat culture.
(38:15):
They even have it on their jerseys. It's like they
have mastered the art of mind screwing you by thinking
there's something special about their heat culture. Because I didn't
know heat culture had anything to do with twenty three
of forty three from three, did you like? I thought
culture was about playing hard, playing together, doing the right things,
(38:37):
et cetera. And they won the game because they shot
the eyes out of the basketball and because the zone
seemed to befuddle the Boston Celtics, And if you want
to say that, their stick touitiveness, their ability to believe
even though in the first game they were blown out.
That's part of heat culture. I'll go with that. I'll
(38:58):
allow that your Honor'll allow that your honor. But the
reality is, okay, the reality is that they won because
they did have five guys to play together. But they're
like the old guys that showed up at the park
(39:18):
and you had a bunch of young, energetic dudes that
if it's a one on one game, you got no shot.
But that's not how basketball is played. And I think
it's gonna be fascinating because what you saw last night,
what you see from Oklahoma City, frankly, you see it
from the Denver Nuggets. I get that Jokich dominates the ball,
(39:44):
but he dominates the ball and is a great facilitator
as well, and that ball does in fact move. Yes,
they get to a Jokich Jamal Murray pick and roll right,
that's definitely their kind of go to play. But there's
a lot of other things that happened before that that
set up them to get in that position where they
(40:04):
put you in a bad spot. You got to pick
your poison right, you're gonna calle guard Jamal Murray. Then
if not, he hits the roller. If you're not gonna
golle guard Jamal Murray. He can go get a bucket
if you can't doge guard Jamal Murray. He's gonna find
Yoks if you step up to help on Yokics, He's
gonna find the open guy because he's a great passer.
But man, I, I mean, are you kidneyed with the
(40:29):
guys they threw out there last night? Let me read
you the names okay of who played for the Heat
last night against the Boston Celtics, who had the best
record in the regular season, And we've told you before
regular season literally means nothing. Tyler Hero was the hero.
He had twenty four and fourteen. Uh Bam had twenty
(40:52):
one to ten and like, look, BAM's not a nobody.
He played on team USI. But Cayla Martin, Haimi Hawkez
and Nikola Yovich. Sorry, those were their other three starters
and off the bench, Heywood high Smith hit three threes
and Duncan Robinson, though he didn't shoot well, he hit
(41:14):
two threes. And every time Duncan Robinson shoots the ball,
if you're the opposing team, you hold your breath because
you think it's going in. Even Delon Wright, who was
a lottery pick, bounced around the NBA and one reason
was not a great shooter. Even he came in and
hit a three last night. And then of course they
break out Kevin Love. You're like, dude, Kevin Love is
still in the league. Yep, But man, you step out
(41:37):
in the court with some no name dudes. They just
play hard and play together and find the oapen man
and shoot threes. And it's like old dudes at the
why They're like, no, we got this, We're gonna run
this court. And then you're sitting there after the game
and the other the old guys are still playing you're not,
and you can't figure out why. Yes, football is the
(41:58):
world's greatest team sport, and yes, individuals can carry an
NBA team, but it is a great team game. And
when my five is better than your five, even though
none of my or maybe one of my five is
as good as your five by themselves, that's what makes
(42:22):
the sport a beautiful thing. And oh yeah, by the way,
that's the essence of the three point line. The two
things that are equalizers in sports in the sport of basketball,
the zone defense and the three point line, right because
the three point line allows you. If you're not that big,
you're not that strong, you can't go in there. You're
(42:42):
not that thought, you can't scort sky. There's still a
place for you here if you can make a shot
from twenty five to twenty six feet out. And the
zone defense, though not the pure zones we see in
college or we'll see in Europe, they're still effective because again,
in of itself, you can't guard these guys. You can't
guard Jason Tatum one on one, but in a zone.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
You can you can.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I thought it was an amazing thing, and I still
think the Celtics win the series. I still think the
Celtics overall talent is better. But in a one game
snareo and what is the Princeton offense famous for it? Yes,
they have back door cuts, but the reason the back
doors are open is they used the three point line
and they played a lot of zone. And it's interesting,
(43:30):
right that style is designed for inferior talent. It's one
of the things I often said when Jim Beheim was
at Syracuse, like I actually think though the zone worked
for them in the NCAA tournament, one of the reasons
they didn't work in the regular season was it's hard
to set tempo when you're playing a zone or to
play fast. And if you have better players, why would
(43:52):
you play a zone and why would you play the
way they played offensively?
Speaker 4 (43:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Athletic teams have tried to run Princeton before. It doesn't
really work, just like athletic teams, for the most part
have some have tried to play zone and to very
limited success. If you're athletic, used that athleticism to your advantage.
If you're not, well, we got his zone defense, and
we got other different ways, you know, double teaming, other
(44:17):
different ways in which we can help you. And the
other part of his own defense is the true weakness
of any zone is not necessarily the open shooting. It's
the inside. Right, You're trying to hide the fact that
we can't stop you at the rim. And Boston doesn't
really have anybody who scores at the rim, you know,
(44:38):
in terms of throwing it into the post. People ask
all that, like why didn't people's zone purdue. That's because
Zach Edy. Now he has one guy who's standing underneath
the hoop hee steps into. He just lays the ball in.
It's too easy it's actually easier to guard him in
man than it was in zone. And I know NBA
zones are different, but the idea is still the same.
What Boston doesn't and can't really do is they can't
(45:00):
really post up and score inside against his own other
than drives, and they don't have drivers. They have one
on one shooters. Let's go to uh, Dan, what do
you think in terms of last night watching that game.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I'll just say this, Doug, because I was doing birthday stuff.
What I think was not surprising about this was that
the Heat won a game in this series. I thought
Boston would win. What was not surprising was that Miami
was victorious. What I thought how it would play out
would be Boston win when they're first two at home,
the Heat maybe win game three, and then Boston ends
(45:38):
up saying, all right, we're gonna put the clamps down
game four, and then we'll close it out in game five.
It's no shock to me that the Heat won a game.
Was it surprising that I was in Boston? Yeah, a
little bit. And then now if you're Boston and you've
got this thing that you talk about heat culture on
your mind, it becomes a little bit more of any
(46:01):
and then when you're starting to look at the benches
and do you want to match wits with Eric Spolstra
because it got you in trouble in Game two. I
think that the Celtics, now if you're a fan, are
questioning that a little bit more. This just opened everything up.
We had heard a lot of maybe Heat having the
opportunity to, you know, Boston didn't want to face Miami
(46:24):
because of the history and what was there. But truly
I felt Boston was going to be the better team
and going to be the better team in the series.
But now what a Game two win in Boston does
for the Heat is it opens up all of these
cracks that you felt maybe could have been there, and
now it's just up to your star players. It's up
to Jason Tatum and it's up to Jalen Brown to
make sure that that doesn't happen in Miami. And that
(46:48):
was that was my takeaway from Again, I would have
loved to have watched the game, but it just didn't
happen last night. As an overall sort of thing, that
would be my feel from the series.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Okay, Sam, what do.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
You think.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
You shoot that hot from three? Yeah, you'll win, but
kind of an aberration.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
I think that's most people's assessment, and I generally think
that way, and I think because Jimmy's very unlikely to return,
I just this is my takeaway from last night, and
it's my takeaway from the Dallas game. Was that last
night and the night before Dallas Clippers, I'm I'm screwed
up in my knights. That's today the right, it's the
(47:30):
I don't want to get in a Game seven with Miami,
not just because the whole Heat culture thing, but because
they got a shooter's chance. It's it's you know what
it's like, and the Dallas game it's the same thing.
It's like, uh, Luca, Okay, Luca gives you a chance
(47:50):
to win any game. He's that good and he's played
in those situations right, and there's there's just a like
Luca can get a shot off. It feels like against anybody.
So I look at the Celtics, I look at the
Clippers as both don't play with fire.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
Here.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
You can lose a home game and go back and
win back home court advantage. I don't want to get
into a Game seven with the Miami Heat because they
were in the finals. Last year and they got a
shooters chance. And I don't want to get into Game
seven with the Dallas Mavericks because they have Luca and
they have Kyrie and you know what end of those series.
Dudes are tired. Sometimes just a star steps up and
makes plays, So uh yeah, it's take on last night
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five eastern, twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
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(00:25):
Coming to hear from the tyrac dot com studios. Tyrat
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dot Com is the way that tire buying should be
welcome in kids. Uh, it's Draft Day right right, It's
(00:46):
Draft Day, which is a big thing, And tonight we
got great draft coverage right here on Fox Sports Radio
starting at eight eastern, five Pacific, brought to you by
Express Pros. You know, most people think think the draft
starts at two, right, because whoever the Washington commanders take
(01:07):
then sets us in a path of what quarterback goes next,
what a quarterback goes next, et cetera, et cetera. And
that's probably mostly accurate. But I think the draft starts
obviously at one, not just because Chicago hasn't officially made
the pick, but because it does set us on this course,
and it's a very unique first overall pick in the draft.
(01:30):
By my estimation, Caleb Williams is the first of his kind.
The first of his kind. We've seen other transfer quarterbacks
go number one overall. We've seen other transfer quarterbacks who
play for Lincoln Riley go number one overall. We've seen
(01:51):
other Oklahoma quarterbacks, other USC quarterbacks. We've seen guys who
have great years whin a Heisman Trophy and then sort
of disappoint years in their final year in college go
number one overall and have varying degrees of success. What
we haven't seen is the generation of players that have
(02:12):
never been told no before. I'd never been told no before.
And that's what happens when you throw a lot of
money at people. It's really hard to tell him no
because you financially you have skin in the game. Remember
this is Caleb Williams who didn't play his high school
(02:34):
senior year because it was a COVID year. And despite that,
he's come out and said, Hey, I thought I should
have started day one, Like I was really mad I
didn't start to stay one when Spencer Ratler was there
ahead of him, and Spencer Ratler at the time was
thought to be the number one quarterback prospect in college
in America. Yeah, it took him some time to beat
him out and to get that opportunity. But the fact
(02:58):
is that the reason Caleb Williams thought for sure he'd
get to start and play right away is well, he's
never been told no before. Then his coach leaves, and
if you remember again the timeline of it, when the
initial portal window opened, he didn't transfer right away. It
took a long time to get that deal done. What
(03:20):
does that mean? It was a bidding war, And unlike
quarterbacks in previous eras, I know that Joe Burrow didn't
have to sit out, but Joe Burrow also hadn't played,
you know, and that's why he got his degree at
Ohio State. But guys had to sit out previously when
they transferred in couldn't play right away. He didn't, you
(03:42):
know why, because we don't tell these guys now anymore.
He doesn't. I mean, like listen, I don't think the
story landed well and I don't think he would ever
do it, But the fact is he would make more
money staying in college than he would play next year
in the NFL. Now, the reason that you want to
(04:03):
play in the NFL is you want to get through
that third year and get your second contract, because that's
generational wealth, the likes of which college sports to this
point cannot compete against. He's not the first transfer quarterback.
He's not the first quarterback to get paid. He's not
the first quarterback to have great success followed by a
(04:25):
disappointing season. He's not. But if you factor in all
of those things together, and then you have the eccentricities
of the fingernail polish, the things written on him, the
use of social media, some of the confidence bordering on
arrogant statements. This is a different generation of dude, a
(04:48):
different generation of dude, and that's what he represents. That's
what he represents. Remember, Eli and Peyton Manning came from wealth.
That's the first family of football. Archie is an amazing dude.
He's really well respected. Andrew Luck came from wealth. But
(05:09):
Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, you name the quarterback,
Deshaun Watson picked the number one overall pick. That that's
a bit a quarterback successful fairy doesn't matter. They may
have they came from different levels of the economy. But
(05:30):
the difference is with this one. It's not Caleb's dad
that has money. It's not his family that has money.
Caleb has money. And I'll take from Chris Carter that says.
Chris Carter always said money doesn't change you. It makes
you more of who you really are. And then you
factor in the old Mike Tyson expression saying, which was,
(05:52):
if you want to see real tragedy, give an eighteen
nineteen year old a limitless budget and not you know,
and not have their parents around and see what happens. Now,
he does have his parents in his life, but they
haven't been with him for the last two years, three years,
and he does have millions of dollars and he's basically
(06:13):
been allowed to do whatever he wants with it. And
oh yeah, by the way, you know, things are going
to get hard for the first time around. And he's
never been told no, he's never been told what you're
doing is wrong. He's going to be on his own.
He's going to be a professional. He's going to be
viewed as a guy who is arrogant or super super
(06:35):
confident and It's going to be fascinating to see how
this works out. Oh yeah, by the way, you have
a quarterback deprived city. You have a city that Chicago
has a lot of amazing things, despite the fact the
weather sucks. Even in the summer. It might be the
best summer city in America because everybody comes to Chicago
(06:56):
to go to the lake. I hope you understand that.
Right in New York, I love New York summers. A
little hot, smells a little.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Bit of urine.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
But on the weekend, you can park anywhere on the
streets because people go either to Connecticut or upstate, or
to a lake, or they go out to the island,
they go to Montauk, they go down the Jersey Shore.
They scatter you go throughout all of these cities. Miami's
too hot in the summer. Texas too hot in the summer.
(07:26):
Chicago might be the best summer city in America. They
have great sports fans, They have some great tradition with
the Bears. It looks like they're going to keep the
Bears in Chicago right by the water. All those things
are good. They no longer have the curse of the
Billy Goat. No curses with the White Sox, no curses
with the Bears, and though the Bulls aren't currently a
(07:48):
championship caliber team, they do have the Michael Jordan legacy.
Like all of these things, it's a great sports town.
It's an amazing place to live. You know what they
haven't had, they haven't had a franchise quarterback. So you
walk in with a confidence not previously seen, right, because
(08:11):
nothing gives you as much confidence as I got ten
million in the bank. If I fail, I'm rich. I'm good.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You walk in with the he's not a West Coast guy, right,
he's from DC. But the perception is you come in
from sc paint your fingernail polish, do things a little differently,
walk differently, talk differently. That gets viewed if you don't
play well on a more negative scale. More quickly, what's
(08:43):
the expression from from Bull Durham Jay stew about being
eccentric when you're in the miners?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah about foot funguses. You won twenty games on the show,
then you're eccentric. If you lose, you're just a clown
and bad fungus shoes whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, you got your you have bad, bad hygiene, you're
a slop. Right, which is the same thing for Kaileb Williams.
If you win, nobody cares literally at people champion, everybody
will start painting their nails. In Chicago, everybody start doing
the Caleb Williams whatever touchdown celebrations. But if you lose
or you're not super successful early, it's the another Mitch Trubisky,
(09:24):
California guy with the fingernail polish. He doesn't care. He's
got money. Anyway, it can be used against you. This
is a very different era we are entering into. We
have had transfers before. Obviously, We've had players that have
gotten paid before. We've had quarterbacks that have come from
affluence before. We've had guys come from Lincoln Riley's system before.
(09:48):
We've had quarterbacks that have been Heisman Truphy winners. We've
had quarterbacks that have been Heisman Trump winners and then
not been as good the next year. All of this
we've seen before. We have not seen all of these
things together in this type of pack personality. And you're
going to Chicago. It's a different deal. Twenty twenty four
is the first year of the true nil transfer quarterback.
(10:11):
And if you don't think that changes how we look
at things. I will give you one very very easy
analogy I liked. I've used this analogy for the entirety
of my time in radio, and it always works. Are
you guys familiar I know? Does anybody get the newspaper anymore?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
The physical paper?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
No, I don't know, Dan Byer, any physical paper you get.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
We somehow have gotten a subscription to USA Today because
it's on my driveway every single morning.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
It's amazing, Sam. When was the last time you got
a newspaper in your driveway?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Man?
Speaker 5 (10:45):
I mean, I subscribe to a digital paper, but I
have not probably a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
At like an airport, I've purchased a.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
My mom still gets the Orange kint Of Register in
the La Times, Orange County, Okay. But in those papers
you may remembered, on the Sunday edition they would have
the Parade magazine, and on once a year in the
Parade magazine they would have what people make, and your
entire perception of people changes based upon what Parade Magazine
(11:11):
said their field made. In Dubuque, Iowa, You're like, what
are you kidney here? A librarian in Dubuque makes seventy
five grand? Well, that's got to go a long way
in Dubuque. Right, a postal worker in Cheyenne, Wyoming makes
(11:36):
a buck twenty five, And then you start thinking, like, man,
can you imagine the weather in Cheyenwa? That goes a
long way? How long? You don't have the factors of
how long the guy's been at his job, how long
he's been doing it, what else he does, whatever, But
you read those magazines and you look at people differently, Like, Dude,
the garbage man makes one hundred grand, I don't feel
so bad for the garbage man, Like that's not a
(11:56):
bad gig, plus you get full benefits. Or if the
garbage man makes for forty grand, you're like, dude, I
feel really bad for him. I'm gonna separate my trash.
I'm gonna do it the right way. I'm gonna make
sure and for like a month, you line out your
trash perfectly. We perceive people totally different we do with athletes.
Same guy can be on a rookie deal, sciences next deal,
(12:16):
You're like, this guy's a bum, he's not worth thirty million. Well,
last year he was only making two and he was underpaid. Right.
I say that because it changes our perception of people.
And then when you have money. One everybody knows you
have money, you're supposed to dress different, act different, walk different,
(12:37):
talk different, surround yourself with better, smarter, more forward thinking people.
You're gonna be different. Once you get that first big check,
everybody is, you'll feel yourself a little bit and then
at some point, hopefully you have people around you that
help level you off. Kayleb Williams is the first, and
(12:57):
because no one really knows how much he may sc
but everybody believes that it's upwards of eight figures over
two years. He's walking in with a bunch of change
in his pocket. He's walking in with a huge social
media following. He's walking in with a perception, maybe not
a reality, but perception of being just kind of a
West Coast dude, unafraid to push the bounds of how
(13:23):
we view sexuality as well as leadership and quarterback play.
A guy who is literally irreverent, and he's going to
a place that's in the Midwest hardcore football. They've been
dying for a quarterback for fifty years. They've been dying
for a quarterback, and you better deliver, dude, otherwise it's
(13:46):
gonna be a hard run for you. Stug Gotlieb show
here on Fox Sports Radio. Reminder, we have our podcast
which follows this show. Sometimes I forget what we're doing
podcasts or we're doing radio. Thank you, Seamy, got damn
Buyer alongside Buyer. Most things you thing you're most excited
about about Tonight's draft.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Most excited about I'm just curious what the Seahawks are
going to do. Yeah, I don't will They's a weird
way of looking at it, like of one thing, like
I think we all just kind of like take it in.
I mean, if you're a fan of your team, you're
you're a You're a very big.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Am I wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Is that a weird question from Doug Jason there saying.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I specifically wore my Chargers polo today because I'm fired
up for the right tackle We're gonna hurt that time.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Of course you're excited for the Chargers. I'm you know,
excited for the Seahawks. But I'm not like man is
Malik Neighbors gonna you know, like, I think your favor
for your team, right, it's gotta gotta be what it is.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, I think so, Yeah, I I tee you up
and probably unfairly so because I did think you you
probably wonder I'm wondering aloud maybe.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
What the Seahawks are going? Like this is a whole
new Seahawks regime. Yes, right, yes, so this is so
and I get it, like their storylines like where does
Pannix go? Where does bo Nix go? Like I don't
but you know, like but I'm not, like, man, where
does bo Nix go? Like I'm like, what are they
going to trade down again? Now that Pete Carroll's not there?
How different it is?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
So?
Speaker 5 (15:11):
Yeah, so I'm I don't even know they're going to
make a pick tonight, you know, to be honest with you,
because there's been some you could trade down twice in
this draft and pick up other picks because they don't
have a second rounder. So I'm Seahawks focus tonight though.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, we'll go around the room. And by the way,
a belated happy birthday to Brody, who celebrated than your birthday.
Yesde that's three cute, cute cute. You do know you
have heard my thing about three year olds are worse
than two year olds?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Right?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (15:41):
Yeah, yeah, finding finding that out?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yes, he's a birthday guy, Uh, what are you gonna say?
There're jaysu.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
The terrible two is the only reason why that is
the case is because of literation. Yes, if if you
could find a literation with three, then it would become
a thing. But terrible twos is just such a you know.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Well, no, two years.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Two years old is a tough year, right, because now
they can talk, they can walk.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Probably isn't any tougher than one or three. But because
you throw the alliteration in there, it's what makes Dodger
dogs so amazing because they're Dodger dogs. Jason's obsessed with
the literation.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I think he's he has he has a point. It's
a portion of it, but a big portion of it
is kids can be a holes when they're two. Right,
it's they're they're not babies anymore, yet there's used to
being This actually is kind of parallels to college athletes. Right,
you're not babied anymore, but they still want to be baby.
(16:36):
They still and they also learn the word no. Yes,
they can use the word no, and you're like, all right,
what do I do here? He says no, Oh it's
a hard one. But they're also like rookie, this is
where I've always said two year olds are like rookie quarterbacks.
You have limited expectations of them. Like guy, he's a rookie,
I's two years old. Of course he pooped his pants.
(16:57):
You're three, You poop your pants, right when you've been
in a big boy, big girl bed. For is he
in a big, big girl bed yet? Not see a
big girl bed yet? But big boy busy? Are we
trending towards that? Are we purchasing one of those?
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Where are we at? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Yeah, well it's one of those convertible sort.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Of convertible thing convertbile crip smart purchase.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I hope you, I hope you brought. You have plenty
of water for the next three hundred and sixty five days.
Because everyone knows about the thirsty threes. You've got to
keep them hydrated. Thirsty threes.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
My bo has always been and Dan previous to him
having a child, knows that that. My point has always been,
it's about your expectations, right, And they're still three years old,
they still don't know anything. They still are just becoming
potty trained, just getting to a big boy bed. And
yet you know your expectations of them are not the
Terrible Twos because of alliteration, but also like you went
(17:51):
through the Terrible twos. Same thing with rookie quarterbacks. We
give them a pass at times, like, ah, he's a rookie, right,
Jordan Loves an example, your love was not a rookie
this year. But because this his first year, starting when
they choke and he misses some throws against the Niners
in the NFC playoffs, what do you hear everybody say,
(18:12):
Jordan loved you know, it's only his first year. It's
his first road playoff game. Next year doesn't happen anymore.
So Brody's got to come through in road playoff games.
That's pretty obvious. That's a big thing for him this
year is how does he perform on the road in
hostile environments. That's a big question I have for your son.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
This is the best of the Done Dot Lead Show
on Fox Sports.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Radio, and this I can dream about you. I can
dream about you. None is this?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Who is this?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Who's the actual singer? This is the instrumental version? Anybody?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Is it Dan Hartman?
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Is that what it was?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
You don't know? I don't know Hartman And it's Dan Hartman.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
This is just one of the songs that has your
name associated with it because you like it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So I'm playing it for you.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
I've never heard it plays, has never.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Been played on our show ever. Your name is literally
attached to this instrument. Maybe you're looking at the gut
leaf folder.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
I'm not calling you a liar. I'm saying we can
these things can both be true. I've done this show.
I had started ESPN. My own show was oh five,
I think, or maybe six six. I started at four o'clock.
So it's been it's been a minute. It's been eighteen
years in the afternoon time slot. This is the first
(19:41):
time I've heard any instrumental played.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, we have this conversation recently. Like you, you brought
a bunch of bumps with you to the show, and
you know, and you have your preferences. And then Ramos
mixed it in over the years. So I said to Sam,
I said, why don't we mix in some of those
old so that Doug brought. You know, thought I thought
that's what it was, but maybe be the wrong folder. No,
I think Ramos maybe liked that song a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
That sounds like it. That sounds and that's one it's
a little bit older.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Than me.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
What's his name?
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Dan?
Speaker 5 (20:12):
What Hartman?
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Does he have any other songs?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Doesn't he host a show on weekends.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Here loves La La dan.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Ah?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh that Dan Hartman. I had no idea was I
was today? Years old?
Speaker 5 (20:33):
I learned our Steve Hartman. More popular than the CBS
is Steve Hartman?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
M M.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes, Sunday Morning, Yes, Sunday Morning. Steve Hartman never watched it?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
What is it is it?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Does he do the Sunday Morning Showow?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
He's the East Coast Steve Hartman.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
No, he's he's the guy who does like the great
stories like, yeah, you know, we were here in western
Nebraska where time seems to stand still?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Can you do it again?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Can you do it?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Do you have any music for that?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
But actually, here's the deal.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
You don't need music for it, because that's how CBS
Sunday Morning goes. But not for Zachariah Wilson.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's so good.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
That gets into the whole deal.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, So Sunday Morning starts out with CBS Sunday Morning,
it ends up with like twenty twenty, and which is
always the husband or wife did it right? The ex wife,
the husband wife did it Almost always poisoned, right, And
I mean, and who's that guy? What's that guy's name?
He's got the great kind of creepy sort of voice,
(21:35):
really good.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Jay Moore used to do that voice.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
That was Keith Morrison of Dateline.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Keith Morrison, murder, God, can you give me the can
you give me a little Keith Morrison?
Speaker 5 (21:45):
No, but I could do it. I think it was
johnsh Mankowitz will talk like this. So the murder weapon
was in the bathroom pockably.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Right, murderer.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Do you know like.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I love is Jay Moore does have a kind of
a lugubrious sound, and it's like he was involved in
something he probably oughtn't to have done. Mossibly murder.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
That's really good, very very Actually he had some Keith
Morrison in the system.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah about that? There you go?
Speaker 4 (22:15):
There you go?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
That was that on the was that the on the
gotlie pile to.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Keep that dropping and then lose the Dan Hartman uh instrumental?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Is Jade and Daniels going to the commanders? That's I
think the big question, right what happens at number two?
Here's Jade Daniels talking about the possibility going the commanders
after his much reported visit with three other dudes before
the draft.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It would be fun be able to go there and
just be blessed to really just fulfill my childhood dream
whoever that is, whatever team that is. So you know,
I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
How about the whole idea of the group visit.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Some guys said they really really liked it.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Did you get a lot out of it? Yeah, for sure,
I mean, you did have fun.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It was the only visit I went to that whether
the you know, where you have to remember a play er,
you know, trying to remember astar or something like that.
So it was dope, and especially to be with guys
that I kind of moved throughout the process and before that.
So it's fine.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Stet Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Let's welcome
in Steve Khin. He's a former general manager of the
Arizona Cardinals. Of course, he selected quarterbacks in successive years,
in Josh Rosen and then Kyler Murray, who he took
number one overall, and he joins us, how did you
approach those visits with quarterbacks, especially subsequent years?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
You did it?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
How'd you approach it?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Well?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I mean I think that's a great question. I mean
Number one. The biggest thing is is the skill set
is the easiest part to identify when you see that
on tape. I think the biggest thing that you want
to get out of the interview process, or at least
I should say the in person meeting process, is certainly
to know more about the person, what makes him tick,
what the metal makeup is, how they approach the game,
(24:00):
the professionals and those sort of things, And to me
at that position, that's so critical for any kind of
success to the next level.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
What was what was Rosan like?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
You know, Josh was you know, a little intellectual guy.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I mean he really was.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
He's smart. Biggest problem I think maybe when you look
back on it is he had a lot of outside
interests and you know, whether it was you know, things
with uh, different organizations for for you know, saving the
beaches and the different things that he believed in which
were very strong in the community. But at the same time,
you know, the guys that you really, really I think,
(24:35):
are are dying to have on your team as a
leader are the ones who you know, are trying to
call the seven and sevens, the off season program stuff.
The great leaders that are you know, really their day
in and day out in the off season.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, it's interesting, right, every but everybody warned you. Everybody said, like,
really smart kid. But here's my thing with with Rosen
at the time, which was, and I got this from
another GM who was looking at him when when you
draft him, which was you know nowhere you call to
people go like Josh Rosen, I love that kid. I
love him. Right, No one disliked him. No one thought
(25:10):
he wasn't talented, smart, none of it. And a matter
of fact, when you saw him against Sam Donald against
as he like he looked like the pro Donald did
not really but but that was kind of the mo
which was nobody there was. There was no true gravitational
pull towards him. Fair.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah. Yeah, and I say that all the time. I
mean right now, I mean as you look back on
things and mistakes that you know I have made or
that I've seen people make in the NFL, is you
know there are certain warning signs and you just can't
avoid the warning signs, you know, the red flagstick. Alex.
So if i'm sometimes and the problem is that supplying
demand is such an issue. You know, I drafted, or
I should say, my first year as a general manager.
In twenty thirteen, I traded a seventh profic for Carson Palmer.
(25:50):
So in the next five success to seasons, we had
over fifty wins in five years, two time executives year.
I thought I was pretty good at this thing. Yeah,
and then all of a sudden, Bruce Arians retires and
Carson Palmer's retires, and now all of a sudden, you know,
we're in a position where you know, you don't have
a quarterback. And the quarterbacks that went before us obviously
a Baker and Josh Allen, et cetera. Uh, he was
(26:11):
the next guy up, and you know, obviously he looked
back on it. Now everybody missed on Lamar.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yep, but why why I'll just again, I'll give you
a full disclosure. I saw Lamar's last game in the
bowl game against Missippi State. He was awful. It's awesome, right.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
No, No, there were times when when you when you
studied Lamar coming out, I mean he wandered whether the
game would translate because there were some times. To his credit,
I mean, he has really become a much better pure
passer than he was. I mean he's gotten more accurate,
which I think there's any degree you can get more
accurate at this level. But he has done a good job,
and he's obviously played within the system, and they've done
a great job, you know, using his feet and his
(26:48):
legs and all the different things that he brings to
the table. And the guy's just a winner. I mean,
you can't That's the one thing about J. J. McCarthy
and tonight's draft. I mean, people can can say all
they want about the guy, but I mean, at the
end of the day.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
The guy is a winner, no question.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Stuck out Let Shore here on Fox Sportraity that voice
to Steve com You're going to hear him tonight starting
an eight eastern, five Pacific right here on Fox Sport
Trade the iHeartRadio app. Part of our coverage of the
first round of the NFL Draft is brought to you
by expresspros dot Com. Okay, so that first year, your
offensive line wasn't very good. You got a first year
(27:22):
head coach, I mean, it didn't work out well. When
was the point where you're like this, this is not going.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
To work with my quarterback, you know, I think it
was probably midway through the year, because I think you
remember Sam Bradford had gotten injured, and that gave us,
you know, a great opportunity to see Josh play and
to play a number of games regardless of the skill
set and the talent that was around them. We were
able to see the way you approached the game as professionalism,
(27:49):
all those again, all those things to me that make
quarterbacks great at this level, and the fact that we
had the number one pick, you know, and again the
biggest thing is, as much as I love Nick Bosa
and Quinn Williams, you know, to have an opportunity to
take a quarterback that I felt propel, organization, the quickness
which he did. You know, he looks back on it
(28:11):
now and Kyle's had some ups and downs. But at
the same time, I don't know that Nick Bosa Quinn
Williams were won US eleven games in year two right
the time?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
There, Yeah, no, I mean people people dismissed the fact
that you took a team that was the number one
overall at the number one overall pick one four, then
one eleven, and obviously injuries befell him and your best
wide receiver, and that that changed you dramatically. What was
different or what was your approach like with Kyler as
(28:37):
opposed to Josh, it's one year to the next. How'd
you how'd you change? How did you approach that draftic?
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Well, you know, I think number one, you know, and
making sure that everybody in the building was balled in
and they were a number two. Once we identified and
decided that he was our guy, to make sure it
was known and not only for him, but the rest
of the team, the Kyler Murray was going to be
our guy moving forward, and to give him that confidence
when we roll the ball out there like this is
this is your team, you know, regardless of the fact
(29:07):
that you're a rookie. You have guys with Glarry Fitzgerald
on your side and as your teammates, and hopefully you
use those guys, you know, to to a degree with
with their experience and some of the things that they've
been through, and hopefully that will help you becoming pro much.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Quicker Cliff's a guy who you smartly hired because, in
addition to being a good offensive coach, he had a
relationship with with Kyler, and Kyler knew his offense, so
there wasn't as steep a learning curve as there is
for so many rookies. In your mind, which of these
quarterbacks fits best with Cliff because Cliff's going to be
doing the same thing, granted as an assistant coach, but
(29:43):
with the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Well, I mean, I ideally I think it would be
kid who's gonna be the first pick in the draft
because he's already coached him for a year at USC,
But that's not going to happen. But you know, I
think Jayde and Daniels would be a good fit. I
think Jayde is the guy that has the wheels that
Cliff knows how to utilize those legs and his athleticism
as well as you know, his his ability, you know,
in some ways, in my opinion, similar to the way
(30:06):
Kyler through the football, nice stroke, very accurate, pet him
out of the pocket and let him do some things
on the move. And to me, I think Jane Daniels
is a guy who fits extremely well for what Cliff
can ask to the Douce.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Thematically, it's it's going to be fascinating to see. Obviously
you saw him when he was in college at ars
On State before he went to His improvement is dramatic.
There have been criticism of how many sacks he takes
and why is how many sacks he takes important from
an evaluator.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Size, Well, you know, I think number one, you got
a to me. In the NFL, the game becomes even
quicker and the decisions have to become faster, So you
have to not only have your feet to get you
out of trouble, but you obviously have to use your
brain to get rid of the ball and in a
quick fashion. And to me, you know, I think that that.
You know, when you take a lot of sacks, it's
(30:55):
for a number of reasons. But sometimes those guys, now
you see the more athletic quarterback, they put themselves in
a predictament. Even with Caleb Williams and some of these
guys at Kyler Murray, they get to the point where
they can almost improvise too much, if that makes sense.
You know where they get in bad habits because they're
seeking get amount of so much trouble that you know
that they're willing to take the extra chance, so they're
(31:16):
willing to hold onto the ball a little more because
they've they've been able to make things happen so much
in the past. The problem is is you get those
kind of guys at times and you're now playing behind
the stick so much because all of a sudden, instead
of being in second and four or second and six,
you're sitting back there in second and twelve or third
and fourteen. And that's not the way you can win
NFL football.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Nope, it's very, very hard to win that way. Steve
Timar guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox
Sports Radio. You mentioned JJ McCarthy. You mentioned that he's
a winner, there's no doubt about it, and he's playing
a pro style system, played for essentially a pro coach
as well. How do you balance that out with the
man they didn't even let him throw against Benn State
(31:57):
and just a lack of volume of throws in comparison
to so many others.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt his so to speak,
his work and then what you've been able to feel
on tape has not really probably been equal to a
top ten pick. Yet at the same time, you know,
and I know a lot of the scouts are you know,
have missed in the past when players like him Number one,
(32:23):
you were able to go see him in his pro workout,
and from the people that I talked about there where
they are showed much more athletic ability and arm strengthen
they anticipated and then at the end of the day
you look at the team that just all they did
was win. And the really you know, when you look
at Jim Harball's offense, they won because they can run
the ball effectively. And to me, that's the way the
NFL is built, is to be able to operate at
a high level within your offense. And I know that
(32:45):
people call him system guys. I don't believe in system guys.
To me, I think that it's just if you're not
is twitchy as talented, maybe you can identify that. There's
very few Patrick mahomes out there. But at the same time,
you all have to operate within the system. And nobody
did it better than a J. McCarthy.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
If Steve Kime was to write a book on approaching
the NFL draft, and you've done it for so long,
you know, going back to even scouting days before he
became a GM, what's the number one do and the
number one don't.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Well, the number one do is to trust your instincts
and as long as you can trust your gun and
your instincts, and and the don't is do not avoid
red flags. And again, you know you you mentioned there
were may be some red flags with Josh Rosen. There
was another guy that I drafted in the first round.
(33:35):
I think he's like picked twenty six named Robert Knbecchi.
You know, Robert was a guy I think we just
won fourteen games or thirteen games a year before went
to the NFC Championship, so we were riding pretty high,
and you know, we thought we needed a defensive tackle
that was explosive. Robert Kindichi was the guy I should
have been a top five pick athletically, but again, there
were several red flags there from his off season, his
(33:58):
work away from football, his passion, the different things that
we studied, and we felt like we tried to really
dig deep with the player. Yet at the same time,
there were enough red flags that we ignored them because
of supplying demand. And again, when you get in a
position where you're trying to you know, when you don't
have something or I should say particularly the quarterback position.
You know, when when we drafted Josh, I mean supplying demand,
(34:21):
it makes you do some crazy, crazy things because if
you don't have that one position, it can make you
do things that are not logical and that's the hardest
part to avoid.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, the Camdchi thing, and again, I know there was
some other stuff, but there was also the you know,
did he go to ole Miss? That he got paid
to go to ole Miss? Right, that's it, and it
does bring us to you know, you know, circling back
around to the Caleb Williams thing, which is this is
a different generation, literally different in that Caleb Williams walks
(34:50):
in with likely seven figures in his bank account. I
don't want to say he doesn't need football, but it's
not the same hunger passion as desire to make it
that so many others previously to him have had. There's
also social media, there's a lot of other things. How
different do you think it makes these players, considering they
(35:12):
were so handsomely compensated at the college level before getting
to the NFL.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Well, I think there's a degree of it to make
them less hungry. But I think the thing you got
to sort of dive and figure out is really what
sort of drives them regardless. I mean, you know, enough
guys and especially some of the pros that have made
a ton of money, guys like Larry Fitzgerald that I've
been around have made a gazillion dollars, but they love
They did it because they loved it, and that's the
key thing you got to figure out, you know. Robert
(35:38):
Candici is the guy who's funny. Interesting story is we're
in a draft process and we all love this talent
and his ability, and I told our defensive line coach,
I have some concerns. Obviously, these red flags are a
little scary. Certainly, don't want to put my name on
a player that doesn't love it. And I'll never forget.
He said, you know this guy that can't do it
or whatever, you know, he can live in my basement.
Well the next year, about a year later, that same
(35:58):
defensive line coach walked into mind office with Robert Canbechi said,
I can't coach this guy. What happened to your basement?
Did you get flooded?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
So funny, So funny, Steve, listen, you're an incredible asset
to have. I can't wait to listen to your coverage
tonight because it's so important, so timely, so insightful. Thanks
so much for being our guest on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Thanks Doug de choy chob Be Rocking the night Man.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Fox Sports Radio, has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Fox
sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app What
Up with You Doug Gotlib show Fox Sports Radio. I
hope you're doing well. You're coming to you from the
tyrat dot com studios. Tyrat dot com. What you get there,
unmatched selection, fast free shipping, free road has protection over
(36:41):
ten thousand recommend installers tyret dot com. It's the way
that tire buying should be. Welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome
in m m mmmm. So the draft is upon us tonight, right,
and this is again, they're all interesting ones. This one's
going to be super interesting just because there's so many
(37:05):
quarterbacks and people have all these opinions about quarterbacks. I
think it's interesting how Michael Pennick specifically, and that's why
am I forgetting the kid's name from the Michigan JJ McCarthy.
How they've skyrocketed up boards because we saw them play
(37:27):
in the National Championship Game. That's really what it comes
down to. And there's this this happens all the time.
There's the like, are they in the National Championship Game
because they have a great quarterback, or do we think
they're a great quarterback because they're in the National Championship game.
And that's a hard one. There's obviously much more on
Michael Pennock's plate than there was JJ McCarthy's plate. But
(37:50):
he also JJ McCarthy was learning a much more advanced
scheme and you had to sacrifice his ego to hand
the ball off more. That part's fascinating. I could be
the only one, but I loved the Heats win last night.
Now what I didn't like about the Heats win last
night is inevitably every fall, everybody falls back on heat culture.
(38:15):
They even have it on their jerseys. It's like they
have mastered the art of mind screwing you by thinking
there's something special about their heat culture. Because I didn't
know heat culture had anything to do with twenty three
of forty three from three, did you like? I thought
culture was about playing hard, playing together, doing the right things,
(38:37):
et cetera. And they won the game because they shot
the eyes out of the basketball and because the zone
seemed to befuddle the Boston Celtics, And if you want
to say that, their stick touitiveness, their ability to believe
even though in the first game they were blown out.
That's part of heat culture. I'll go with that. I'll
(38:58):
allow that your Honor'll allow that your honor. But the
reality is, okay, the reality is that they won because
they did have five guys to play together. But they're
like the old guys that showed up at the park
(39:18):
and you had a bunch of young, energetic dudes that
if it's a one on one game, you got no shot.
But that's not how basketball is played. And I think
it's gonna be fascinating because what you saw last night,
what you see from Oklahoma City, frankly, you see it
from the Denver Nuggets. I get that Jokich dominates the ball,
(39:44):
but he dominates the ball and is a great facilitator
as well, and that ball does in fact move. Yes,
they get to a Jokich Jamal Murray pick and roll right,
that's definitely their kind of go to play. But there's
a lot of other things that happened before that that
set up them to get in that position where they
(40:04):
put you in a bad spot. You got to pick
your poison right, you're gonna calle guard Jamal Murray. Then
if not, he hits the roller. If you're not gonna
golle guard Jamal Murray. He can go get a bucket
if you can't doge guard Jamal Murray. He's gonna find
Yoks if you step up to help on Yokics, He's
gonna find the open guy because he's a great passer.
But man, I, I mean, are you kidneyed with the
(40:29):
guys they threw out there last night? Let me read
you the names okay of who played for the Heat
last night against the Boston Celtics, who had the best
record in the regular season, And we've told you before
regular season literally means nothing. Tyler Hero was the hero.
He had twenty four and fourteen. Uh Bam had twenty
(40:52):
one to ten and like, look, BAM's not a nobody.
He played on team USI. But Cayla Martin, Haimi Hawkez
and Nikola Yovich. Sorry, those were their other three starters
and off the bench, Heywood high Smith hit three threes
and Duncan Robinson, though he didn't shoot well, he hit
(41:14):
two threes. And every time Duncan Robinson shoots the ball,
if you're the opposing team, you hold your breath because
you think it's going in. Even Delon Wright, who was
a lottery pick, bounced around the NBA and one reason
was not a great shooter. Even he came in and
hit a three last night. And then of course they
break out Kevin Love. You're like, dude, Kevin Love is
still in the league. Yep, But man, you step out
(41:37):
in the court with some no name dudes. They just
play hard and play together and find the oapen man
and shoot threes. And it's like old dudes at the
why They're like, no, we got this, We're gonna run
this court. And then you're sitting there after the game
and the other the old guys are still playing you're not,
and you can't figure out why. Yes, football is the
(41:58):
world's greatest team sport, and yes, individuals can carry an
NBA team, but it is a great team game. And
when my five is better than your five, even though
none of my or maybe one of my five is
as good as your five by themselves, that's what makes
(42:22):
the sport a beautiful thing. And oh yeah, by the way,
that's the essence of the three point line. The two
things that are equalizers in sports in the sport of basketball,
the zone defense and the three point line, right because
the three point line allows you. If you're not that big,
you're not that strong, you can't go in there. You're
(42:42):
not that thought, you can't scort sky. There's still a
place for you here if you can make a shot
from twenty five to twenty six feet out. And the
zone defense, though not the pure zones we see in
college or we'll see in Europe, they're still effective because again,
in of itself, you can't guard these guys. You can't
guard Jason Tatum one on one, but in a zone.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
You can you can.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I thought it was an amazing thing, and I still
think the Celtics win the series. I still think the
Celtics overall talent is better. But in a one game
snareo and what is the Princeton offense famous for it? Yes,
they have back door cuts, but the reason the back
doors are open is they used the three point line
and they played a lot of zone. And it's interesting,
(43:30):
right that style is designed for inferior talent. It's one
of the things I often said when Jim Beheim was
at Syracuse, like I actually think though the zone worked
for them in the NCAA tournament, one of the reasons
they didn't work in the regular season was it's hard
to set tempo when you're playing a zone or to
play fast. And if you have better players, why would
(43:52):
you play a zone and why would you play the
way they played offensively?
Speaker 4 (43:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Athletic teams have tried to run Princeton before. It doesn't
really work, just like athletic teams, for the most part
have some have tried to play zone and to very
limited success. If you're athletic, used that athleticism to your advantage.
If you're not, well, we got his zone defense, and
we got other different ways, you know, double teaming, other
(44:17):
different ways in which we can help you. And the
other part of his own defense is the true weakness
of any zone is not necessarily the open shooting. It's
the inside. Right, You're trying to hide the fact that
we can't stop you at the rim. And Boston doesn't
really have anybody who scores at the rim, you know,
(44:38):
in terms of throwing it into the post. People ask
all that, like why didn't people's zone purdue. That's because
Zach Edy. Now he has one guy who's standing underneath
the hoop hee steps into. He just lays the ball in.
It's too easy it's actually easier to guard him in
man than it was in zone. And I know NBA
zones are different, but the idea is still the same.
What Boston doesn't and can't really do is they can't
(45:00):
really post up and score inside against his own other
than drives, and they don't have drivers. They have one
on one shooters. Let's go to uh, Dan, what do
you think in terms of last night watching that game.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
I'll just say this, Doug, because I was doing birthday stuff.
What I think was not surprising about this was that
the Heat won a game in this series. I thought
Boston would win. What was not surprising was that Miami
was victorious. What I thought how it would play out
would be Boston win when they're first two at home,
the Heat maybe win game three, and then Boston ends
(45:38):
up saying, all right, we're gonna put the clamps down
game four, and then we'll close it out in game five.
It's no shock to me that the Heat won a game.
Was it surprising that I was in Boston? Yeah, a
little bit. And then now if you're Boston and you've
got this thing that you talk about heat culture on
your mind, it becomes a little bit more of any
(46:01):
and then when you're starting to look at the benches
and do you want to match wits with Eric Spolstra
because it got you in trouble in Game two. I
think that the Celtics, now if you're a fan, are
questioning that a little bit more. This just opened everything up.
We had heard a lot of maybe Heat having the
opportunity to, you know, Boston didn't want to face Miami
(46:24):
because of the history and what was there. But truly
I felt Boston was going to be the better team
and going to be the better team in the series.
But now what a Game two win in Boston does
for the Heat is it opens up all of these
cracks that you felt maybe could have been there, and
now it's just up to your star players. It's up
to Jason Tatum and it's up to Jalen Brown to
make sure that that doesn't happen in Miami. And that
(46:48):
was that was my takeaway from Again, I would have
loved to have watched the game, but it just didn't
happen last night. As an overall sort of thing, that
would be my feel from the series.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Okay, Sam, what do.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
You think.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
You shoot that hot from three? Yeah, you'll win, but
kind of an aberration.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
I think that's most people's assessment, and I generally think
that way, and I think because Jimmy's very unlikely to return,
I just this is my takeaway from last night, and
it's my takeaway from the Dallas game. Was that last
night and the night before Dallas Clippers, I'm I'm screwed
up in my knights. That's today the right, it's the
(47:30):
I don't want to get in a Game seven with Miami,
not just because the whole Heat culture thing, but because
they got a shooter's chance. It's it's you know what
it's like, and the Dallas game it's the same thing.
It's like, uh, Luca, Okay, Luca gives you a chance
(47:50):
to win any game. He's that good and he's played
in those situations right, and there's there's just a like
Luca can get a shot off. It feels like against anybody.
So I look at the Celtics, I look at the
Clippers as both don't play with fire.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
Here.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
You can lose a home game and go back and
win back home court advantage. I don't want to get
into a Game seven with the Miami Heat because they
were in the finals. Last year and they got a
shooters chance. And I don't want to get into Game
seven with the Dallas Mavericks because they have Luca and
they have Kyrie and you know what end of those series.
Dudes are tired. Sometimes just a star steps up and
makes plays, So uh yeah, it's take on last night
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