July 9, 2024 • 43 mins
On a Tuesday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug tells you how he interpreted the words of Klay Thompson as he explained the reason he chose the Mavericks at his introductory press conference.
Doug reacts to Jayson Tatum claiming that he has ended a debate by winning an NBA Championship.
Doug gives his take on Cooper Flagg. Doug welcomes former NBA executive and player Pat Garrity on to talk about the NBA off-season to this point.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
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Find your local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at
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Gottlieb Show, Foxsports Radio Coming to you from the tyrag
(00:25):
dot com studios tyrat dot com. Well we get there
on max selection, fast, free shipping, free road as protection
over twenty four So we're ten thousand, was it? Why
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tyraight dot Comswait tire buying should be welcome in. You know,
(00:47):
there's something interesting that happened today with Klay Thompson. Yes,
we'll talk about Cooper Flag upcoming in in fifteen minutes.
Something interesting happened with Klay Thompson. If you've worked at
a company for a long time, I think in many
ways you understand what happened between Klay Thompson and the Warriors,
(01:11):
and it really sucks, but there is something to it
which I completely get so Klay Thompson is an all
time great warrior. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.
He's Game six Clay. And look, if we're honest about it,
he's not in the Hall of really good that played
(01:33):
for a really long time. But he's also not in
the elite, elite wing of the Hall of Fame. Right
like truth is a true Hall of Fame, I think
Klay Thompson would get in, But the true Hall of
Fame should be only the best of the best of
the best, and he was probably the best pure shooter
in the league. Right'm pure shooter and we could kind
(01:54):
of get into the world stuff. Cour is the greatest
shooter of all time. Well, it's it's different. Styles are
different in terms of cat shoot shooter, I don't know
if there's ever been anyone as good as Clay. And
he's a two way player. He played. He was a
very good defender, but he was never the best player
on that team. An incredibly dangerous weapon that had gravity
(02:14):
and could hit you for twenty in a second and
did bail them out, especially against the Oklahoma City Thunder
in Game six. That's where he got the Game six
Clay reputational that the other game six. But the point
is the point is Klay Thompson's the Hall of Famer,
is a great player. Today he had his press conference
(02:35):
because he is officially a Dallas Maverick, and he explained
today why he chose the Mavericks to be what's likely
his final home in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I'm very grateful for my time at Golden State, but
I just felt like moving on could just re energize
me and do something special for the rest of my career.
Dallas was so attracted because of the young players they have,
the style of play, the world class treatment these players
get from this organization, and just a beautiful city who
(03:09):
loves their hoops. When I was watching the playoffs and
I'm watching the mass you know, make a run for
the championship, I just saw myself fitting in really well
with this team and the personnel, and they look like
they have fun playing with each other. They play for
each other, and that was very attractive for me, and
that's really all I needed to see. And there's mutual
interest there and that's why I'm here.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Right somewhere
in between, Hey, we want you back and we love you.
Think you're the greatest Ever is where where Golden State landed?
And Dallas made him feel like he was more important. Look,
he chose Dallas and Dallas was maybe the second, maybe
(03:51):
the third highest bidder. I didn't choose the Lakers, And
we all talked about that, right, talked about that on
this show about how it's it is not sort of
it is completely damning towards the LA Lakers to not
have uh, you know, to not have Klay Thompson choose
(04:12):
them when Clay Thompson is kind of a lifelong Laker
that was always thought to be, Hey, that's where he's
gonna go, and it just didn't work out that way
and didn't work out that way only because Clay chose
to not go there. Right, That's all that really happened.
But I think we can all sort of relate, can't we,
(04:35):
to what happened in in Golden State? And isn't that possible?
Isn't that fair? Right? Like he'd been there for a
long time, he felt I don't want to say disenchanted,
but he felt like he wasn't feeling the love that
(04:56):
that happens. It happens in so many busines.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
This is.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
How many businesses have you been a part of that
You've been there for a long time. I'm like, listen,
I can tell you when I was at ESPN. And
one of the reasons that ESPN has lost people over
the years is not because they had their final bid.
Isn't where it should be. It's a lot like the
Paul George thing, a lot like here with the with
the Klay Thompson thing. That first offer where people want
(05:26):
to come in low right, that first offer is so
low that you're like, what excuse me, I'll give you
a firsthand. Okay, Now this was not the time I
left ESPN, but after my first contract. The way my
first contract was structured was I got an amount of
(05:46):
money for doing radio. And I did radio at the
time four days a week, six hours a day. There's
a show called Game Night with Chuck Wills. Chuck is
was just awesome. What a great teacher and human being
to learn radio from. I wasn't a college broadcasting student.
I took one class in the Journalism Broadcasting Building at
(06:09):
Oklahoma State. It was a marketing class. Actually two one
was a sports law class business law class. Be law
with Andrew Yurick anyway. So I had no real background
other than I had done local radio for a year
and I had done spots on other shows, and I'd
filled in a local show, but I don't really know
anything about especially national sports radio. And Chuck was my teacher.
(06:32):
I worked one hundred and eighty days. I also had
eight contracted games, and that's it. That was my contract.
And the way it worked was if I was going
to do TV, and the late Great Barry Sachs was
running ESPN News at the time, if I was gonna
do TV, I had to come in on days when
(06:54):
I was doing radio because I had an overage that
means a use above It's like overtime above that of
my contract. And it was I don't know what it was,
one thousand dollars a day or maybe more or something
like that. It's good money, but they didn't want to
pay it. And even though I was doing six hours radio,
if I want to do TV, fine, I had to
do it on a day I was doing radio. It
(07:15):
was a three year contract. By the end of the
three year contract, I was doing TV and getting paid
additionally for TV. And I'll never forget The first offer
that came in was above that of what my contract was,
but it was below what I'd actually made in the
two previous years because somebody hadn't been alerted to the
(07:36):
fact that I was doing TV and I was getting overage.
So imagine if you're making I don't know, fifty thousand
dollars and at the end of the year, you clear
seventy five thousand dollars and somebody comes in and says, hey,
great news, We're going to pay you sixty five thousand
dollars for the next three years. Like, well, say, I've
been making seventy five thousand dollars the last two years,
(07:57):
what do you like. You're giving me a pay cut,
you know. And eventually you negotiate and you threaten to
go out, and there becomes a window in which you
can get competition and you get closer and closer to
the number that you want. Even my final contract, which
again by the time I walked from ESPN, was a
five year deal, it was really good money. I have
(08:20):
no issues with the ESPN and all, but the initial
contract was really flat of what I had made in
the previous contract, Like, well, we're gonna give you a
three percent raise. That's what we're gonna do. Okay, We're
gonna give you a three percent raise. And so I
had to go out and negotiate, got an offer from CBS,
(08:41):
which actually ended up being above that of ESPN. But
the point is, and here's how it relates to Paul George.
Here's how it relates to Klay Thompson is, even though
that's not their final offer, and even though that's all
part of the business, when you've been somewhere for my
espno is there for nine years. I mean, look at
that long Klay Thompson, his entire career been spent in
(09:02):
Golden State. When you come in, you come in law,
you're like, what are we doing? Just come in with
what the final number is going to be and have
a real conversation. And the conversation is, hey, now look
the Klay Thompson thing. They they told they were going
to bring him off the bench. He didn't want to
come out the bench. And the truth is, Clay Thompson
doesn't need to come off the bench. He just can't
be your second best player. If you want to win
(09:23):
a championship, he has to be your fourth or fifth
best score to win a championship. That has to be
the plan, and that's Dallas's plan and it actually works.
But we can call it agism, you know, we could
call it kind of timing out. There's a certain born
on date. It's almost like a relationship. Right, have you
(09:44):
ever ever heard that expression? Every for every beautiful woman,
there's a guy that's that's tired of being with her. Right,
whatever it is, there is this sense of complacency and
maybe false sense of what loyalty means from companies at times.
(10:05):
And look, a lot of it is a lot of it.
There is truth to it. Right, when you get older,
you're not a killer nearly as much as you used
to be. You won't grind like you did in your
twenties and thirties. You got a family, you got kids,
you got perspective. You can get all your work done
and get out and still be just as effective in
your own mind. Like you don't have that same you
(10:27):
want to have the same energy towards it. But you're
not like a psychopath. You're not like skipping birthdays and
skipping recitals. Like you're a human being as you should be.
And oh yeah, by the way, as an athlete, you're
not as productive as you need to be. Clay Thompson
is not a max player. Heck, Paul George isn't the
number one option by his own estimation. But there's a
(10:48):
way in which those conversations have to be have. There's
a way in which you have to negotiate, which is
different than any other sort of negotiation. And the different
way is, hey, listen, here's the deal. Here's how is
the most we're going to pay you. We are not
going to negotiate with you out of respect to you,
(11:09):
and if you can't make a work for that, it's fine.
It's been awesome, but it's actually disrespectful to go through
the traditional process of le me go low, you go, Hi,
We try and meet in the middle. Whoever ends up
on their side of the middle wins. Jase, do am
I wrong? Like? That feels what happened to Clay and
to a lesser extent, Paul George feels like every negotiation
(11:33):
for every employee that's been in a company for a
decade or more.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Ever, no, I think you're right. I think you're right.
And to add to that, I think that everyone who's
listening right now, including everybody in the studio I think
shares one thing about their job. They want to be
valued by the people that employ them. They want to
(11:57):
feel valued. And I just think that the longer you
stay at a place, the more chances there are of
feeling devalued or taking advantage of or complacency sets in.
And I just think that Clay reached that point with
ownership a couple of years ago at the Warriors according
to some reports, where he's been miserable for a couple
of years. But we could all relate to that, right,
(12:19):
We all just want to feel valued, and I'm guessing
the Mavericks set all the right things to make them
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Sure, sure, I mean, look, this happens in relationships, not
just in you know, in business relationships, relationships as well,
and I think we all get the kind of wandering
eye and business as well. Where you you know you drive.
I used to drive down a street when I was
at ESPN called Huckleberry Hill, and I just remember driving
down Huckleberry Hill for like six years straight and it
(12:47):
was great, especially in the fall the leaves are changing.
I wouldn't have any music on had the windows just
cracked open. I feel like man. And then at some
point you go like, am I going to drive down
Huckleberry Hill? My entire life is this how my life ends?
But I just drive down Huckleberry Hill. And then when
you leave, you're like, man, I miss Huckleberry Hill and
driving down that hill. But that's the reality to kind
of mankind is we all wonder what the grass is
(13:08):
like on the other side. And you know our grass,
sometimes you take it for granted, you don't treat it
as well, you don't worry about Ah, it's just a
little crab grass. It'll go away next season. That sort
of thing. Whereas you go to somebody else's like, man,
look at how manicured this lawn is. Yeah, we all
want to feel valued. That is twenty twenty four. We
(13:33):
all want to feel valued. We all want to feel hurt.
And whatever was done in both those situations, neither guy
felt valued, neither guy felt hurt, and it could becomes
really easy for the new guy, you know, to recruit
you to that idea of being valued, when the truth
is that Golden State knows his flaws better than Clay
(13:56):
even does, but it's how he feels that those laws
are being focused on instead of when you go to
a new place. Only the positives, only the superlatives are
being focused on. I don't know. I just I listened
to him talk today and Jason and I we came
to the same conclusion, like this is every fifty plus
(14:16):
year old male worker in America who's been in a
place for a decade. You're like, man, I just don't
feel valued anymore. Like I got to go start that
clock over. Then you go to a new place, but
you don't have the sweat equity. You still bring in
a reputation, but then you have a very different culture
you got. It's not easy. Staying's not easy. Leaving is
not easy. Very human though.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
This is the best of the Done dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
One of what you dog gott Leap Show Fox Sports Radio,
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That's the way the tire by should be. I've said
this before that I think one of the biggest challenges
(15:12):
in a man's life is not just making it. Matter
of fact, making it is probably the second hardest challenge
you'll have. It's staying atop there, and there's a balance there.
You want to stay motivated and you also want to
stay humble. I read this story earlier today from Tim Bonteps.
(15:33):
Tim bontepscuse me, who wrote fresh off winning an NBA
title and signing a record contract extension over the weekend,
Jason Tatum arrived in sim City for his first Team
USA training camp practice Monday with the fresh haircut and
feeling that the weight was lifted off his shoulders. Just
being the topic of discussion of so many debates or
whatever it is. Can he lead a team? Is he
a top five player? There's still a lot of things.
(15:55):
I guess they can debate, but what I've done they
can't debate. I won a championship. Having that under my belt,
Like obviously it's still a conversation whether to be had
or whatever people want to say. But they've always got
to refer to me as an NBA champion. Yeah, now, look,
(16:16):
he is a champion. Unlike Dwight Howard, who after losing
in the playoffs said I'm still a champion when he's
We didn't win a championship until the COVID championship with
the Lakers, which still sort of a championship, right, But
the interesting part about it is, I'm not sure what
debate he settled. He's right, we do have to point
(16:39):
out he's an NBA champion. That does not settle any
sort of debate. I mean, I guess if you want
to make the debate, hey can they Cohen's can Jalen
Brown and Jason Tatum work together win a championship? There's
a portion of time where that was some sort of debate.
I'm not sure this debate does more a question that
has been answered. That has been answered, But there's also
(17:04):
the let's we're settling all debates. That's it. I settle debates.
That's that's just feeling yourself. And it's fascinating. I understand.
This is the way the NBA works. Where a guy
gets done, and even though he had a second straight
disappointing finals, we reward him with the biggest contract in
(17:25):
the history of professional sports because he's next guy up
and he's a really good player. But it actually didn't
settle any debates as to whether or not he's a
top five player. Did it, Like, do we put him
in the pantheon of Joel Embiid, of Nikola Jokic, of
Luca Frankly, I don't don't think so, and and obviously
(17:51):
Yannis getting hurt. But when you get hurt or Embiid
has gotten hurt, when your team doesn't and you don't
play well and your team still wins, as opposed to
you don't play well and your team loses, I actually
think it settles the debate as to who won. Was
it your team or was it you individually? I mean,
(18:11):
with this group right now, Jason Tatum is a fabulous player.
This is not in any way me telling you Jayson
Tatum stinks. But if you had to choose in a
game today, would you even start him? On USA Basketball? Remember?
USA basketball doesn't have Giannis, doesn't have Yokich. I wouldn't.
(18:31):
I wouldn't. But Jason Tatum wants to believe that he's
settled all debates by being part of a tremendous championship
year where they have the best season, the best regular
season record, and of course won the postseason as well.
It's like you want to pull them aside and go Stason.
That's not exactly a debate that you're an NBA champion.
(18:54):
That's a fact. A debate is whether or not you're
a top five player, and that's still debate. Most people
are on the other side of it, right And you
can just see Jayson Tatum going no, no, no, I sell
that debate. We won a championship, like no, no, It's
(19:15):
it's the hardest thing, you know. I did the NBA
Draft for I started at ESPN doing it, so nine
years of the ESPN, and I did it for I
think five years elsewhere, either with Fox Sports Radio. I
did it with Stadium Sports as well. And I remember
there'd be so many of these players who, like Jason Tatum,
(19:36):
are just really fabulous people. When you meet him and
they come out in the NBA Draft and they're nineteen
twenty twenty one years old, and you want to grab him.
And sometimes we would grab him, pull them aside and
go like, hey man, just my hope for you is
you have this great career in that five six years
from now, when we meet up somewhere on a street,
you're the exact same guy then as you are now.
(19:58):
And I'm not saying he went Hollywood or went to
his head, but I think there's somewhere in between that
and staying humble, and he's very very close to the
it going to his head phase. Well, we've ended all
debates because you have to call me a champion. Yeah,
(20:19):
that's not actually how the debates ended. The question was
whether or not you could play well in the finals,
and you had a really one, really good game. The
question was whether or not you and Jalen Brown could
co exist. That's fair, you can Jalen Brown did co exist.
Jalen Brown played better than you in the finals. It's
also fair to say, hey, you were top of the skyingport.
(20:41):
That's okay, that's a hard way to live. They were
focused on you. But you've played two NBA finals. You
have him an exceptional consistently in either of them. So
if there's a debate about where you are at the
top of the food chain, I'd say that debate is
still out there. Well, no one can debate if you're
not an NBA that you're an NBA champion. Jase w
(21:02):
am I missing something. Is there some sort of debate
that he settled that we don't know about.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I mean, I think I could speculate. It's I'm guessing
that there have been a few segments on first Take
and Undisputed? Can Jason Tatum win at all? Does he
have what it takes to win at all? How about
the debate of who's the best player right now to
not have a championship? I think he can end that one.
(21:29):
He's can remove his name from that debate. But he
started a new debate which player reads his press clippings
the most, Kevin Durant or Jason Tatum. And I love
the phrase press clippings because it's very dated. There's no
such thing as clippings of presses anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Sam, do you even know what press clippings were? Oh?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Come on, Doug.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Yes, I have read newspapers in my life.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I have. When was the last time he read a newspaper?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Probably?
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Well, like the only place you can really find a newspaper,
I feel like is like at the airport, And probably
the last time I flew I bought a paper. And yes,
I'm actually over the course of my life cut out
clippings and our very own Andy Furman, who does weekend
shows here at FSR. He sends me press clippings.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
All the time.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
He does, Yes, And I love them for it because
they're great.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Isaac strucks me as a guy.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
That, Yeah, Isaac, Isaac also has like boards you know
of what's what? What what? Isaac? That was a deep breath.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Like I clearly now I seek press clippings from Doug crecorians.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
The Herald Examiner. Yeah, I clearly need to update my
branding and juice up my following on TikTok if that's
what you guys are going to assume.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
But thank you anyway.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
No, back in the day, back in the day, I
would keep stacks of them underneath my bed when I
was growing up. It was an enormous fire hazard. But
that was your internet back then. If you wanted to
look up some sports statistics or something you were interesting
interested in from three weeks ago or else, you had
to wait a year for the old Sports Almanac.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
To come out.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Oh yeah, how did we live back then, Doug? How
did we live?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Your mom must have put together a scrap book of
your press clippings, right, you must have that somewhere, Doug.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I do. I do? I have one. I have one
that my mom put together, and then I have one
that I think her name was Amy Lavicky, who was
like a super fan. She was a young like teenager
when I was in college, and she put together an
unbelievable want to play in Oakland State, no question. Yeah,
I think there's nothing like some press clippings. I'm a
(23:46):
big fan of them.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Newspapers and magazines are still important for if you want
you have, like some notable moment in your your team's history,
and you want to frame that put it on your wall.
You still need something tangible. So I liked the full
color layout. You know, I have stuff from Iowa football
and other other sports. Kaitlin Clark, It's still important.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
February nineteen ninety five by Chris Foster. Loaded with Options,
Tustin point guard Doug Gottlieb has plenty of choices when
he wants to make a play.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Wow, pretty good. Chris Foster did a good job. There's
also there was a I was on the front page
of USA Today, like my third year at ESPN. I mean, now,
it was more than that because the girls were little.
I think it was before we had my son or
maybe so, I'm gonna guess that was two thousand went there,
two thousand and six, probably in the two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine variety. Yeah, there's a there's a
(24:37):
big front cover spread on USA Today.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
What's what's this from?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I have a bunch of those ones if anybody wants one.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
What's this from two thousand and six the Oklahoma and
an article titled the Collected Wisdom of Doug gottlieb.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Oh, that's a good one. What's that say? I forgot?
I forgot? That's Barry Trammel mm hmm. And he calls
and he just asks you a bunch of questions.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
So he so he So you got along with him
better than he got along with Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Huh nobody got along?
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
And look, Berry is a really talented writer. He could
tweak you a little bit. But in that particular case,
it was just a you know, in your own words
sort of thing. Anything jump out, shilo.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
Oh at everything. Let's see, broadcasting is a perception based business.
You can have your best show and somebody doesn't get it,
or somebody missed it. There's no score at the end
of it in TV or radio. There's no scoreboard. That
breeds a lot of insecurity in our business.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh. I think that's that's that is some wisdom that
rings true all these years later. Baby That's some wisdom,
isn't it. Thought that was pretty good, kind of proud
of myself that aged, well, that did age. Well, that's
my What year was that? Two thousand and six?
Speaker 6 (25:47):
Two thousand and six. The next item is I think
the IDA. I think the iPhone will go the way
of the Dodo birds. So I guess you missed on
that one.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I said that.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
No, I'm kidding, what what?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
What?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I said, but I did have ESP on the phone.
I thought that was awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
What issues you're like?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I said that, Yeah, that one is that one? That one?
If that was in my autobiography, I would have said
I was misquoted my own autobiography.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Fox
sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Doug Gotlelip Show Fox Sports Radio. It's always interesting to me, obviously,
as you all know, I'm the new head coach at
at Green Bay. But part of it is I've been
in the au culture or AU scene since I played
in it. Then my dad had a program I coached
for him. Uh and then obviously I took over his
program after his passing and I've been around it. I mean,
(26:49):
Cooper Flag has been uh frankly the great White hope
for the last couple of years in AU basketball, Like, man,
what's that going to look like when he gets to college?
What's that going to look like when he gets to
the NBA? But just I mean last year on the
eybl circuit, like just completely and utterly and thoroughly dominant.
(27:09):
And he's seventeen years old. And something other else that's
interesting is, you know, we have our seventeen U team
that just won, you know, a gold medal and has
We've never lost in seventeen U and they were just
that that class is ridiculous. Cooper Fly could play on
that team, but instead he's scrimmaging against Team USA. But
(27:33):
it's it's fascinating that all of a sudden, now it's
like mainstream people or fans are like, who wow, or
I've heard of him, but I can't believe how good
he is. I neither can win. But if there was
ever a question about will it translate to that level,
the answer is yeah. I mean the kids that could
(27:54):
and I believe good enough to bring men's college basketball
back to the fore front, you know, not that Yukon
hasn't been great the past two years, but this past
year there was as much or more excitement about the
women than that we're the men. Now. Caitlyn Clark graduates,
so too Angel Reese obviously also in the in the
(28:16):
w NBA. It's not that we don't know or like
Paige Becker's but there's always been great women's college best plaers.
But when Duke has Zion, Duke has, I mean you
name it, or a Kentucky or one of the blue
Birds has the elite kid. Now it's Duke. Now we
(28:40):
pay a lot more attention and there's some substance that
goes to it. Pat Gerdale joined us in a moment.
He's a former an NBA front office analyst. He is
a former He's an NBA analyst for Stadium Sports, a
former NBA executive, also used to be the head of
the Players Association back when they wrote one of the
previous cbash So he can give us a sense of
(29:00):
what's changed and what the Tier two tax, what that
all means to those of us who are just fans.
Stug got THEAB Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Let's
welcome in. Pat Garrity who he was the great White
Hope back when I played with him at Notes Youre Dame.
Before he played ten years in the NBA, he's been
an NBA executive. He's a Dukey too, because he's got
(29:21):
an NBA from Duke. And by the way, he also
has had the Players Association back when they wrote the
CBA and PG. I'm just wondering your thoughts take put
on your evaluator hat. As a guy who like Cooper
Flag is your size, different sort of game, what are
your thoughts on on what it looks like he will
(29:42):
look like when he gets on an NBA floor.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
Oh, you're breaking up a little bit. First of all,
good be with you. We're talking Ronnie here right, No.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
No, no, no, no no, we're talking Cooper Flag.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Oh, Cooper Fla. Sorry about that. Yeah, you are breaking
up alot of the bed at the beginning. Look, I
haven't seen a ton of him. I watched a little
bit of the clips from USA Basketball and then was
intrigued that went back and watched some vwad elp Up.
I mean, he has a chance to be a terrific player.
And I think that you have the three things that
(30:13):
when you combine them like every coach wants in a player.
Number one is his size. Number two is his athletic
ability and the skill to match that, because we know
that you a lot of times can have big guys
that are tremendously athletic and active and have high motors,
but not necessarily to have the skill. And he certainly
(30:35):
has both. And I think the third part is at
a young age, the motor and it's just to me,
it looks like a natural thing with him. It doesn't
look like anything it's had to been coached or anything.
He's just naturally a guy that looks super super competitive
and play art. So when you put size, competitiveness, skill,
athleticson together, you have the makings of a guy who
(30:56):
could be a very very good player in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, yeah, I know it's it's going to be fascinating,
fascinating to watch. All Right, let's let's talk some Bronnie James.
What was your reaction when the Lakers took him at
fifty five?
Speaker 7 (31:10):
Well, first of all, I thought it was like a
fascinating story to follow leading up to the draft, just
how open and honest Rich Paul was about what he
was or wasn't going to accept, like he said, there's
no way that he's going to sign a two way contract,
and just the brashness of that was certainly something I
(31:31):
think was kind of fun to watch entertaining. Look like,
Bronnie has a long ways to go. He didn't play
a ton of college, just played one season. You know,
you could see that there's like big gaps in his game.
I think that we all it's not a hot take
to say that if he was just another guy, that
he wouldn't have been drafted at all. And so, look
(31:54):
like the situation is what it is. I think that
there's certainly other reasons why you could be interested in
fire following his developments. I mean certainly because of you
know who his dad is. So that's going to be
fun to watch. But you know, to me, a little
bit of a spectacle, I think is the best way
I could describe it.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, it's a lot bit of a spectrum, it really is.
I can't imagine how hard it's going to be for
their for their G League team, and you know, for
their for Dane Johnson, their G league coach, just because
like you want to develop a kid, but you also
want to win and have to develop other people, and
(32:34):
yet you know who is the master who's actually telling
you how to play him, how to use them. I
could not be easy.
Speaker 7 (32:43):
Well, well, the G League to me, for him is
is going to be even tougher than if he were
to be put in an NBA game. You get you
throw in an NBA game, it's going to be for
short minutes. Maybe maybe the outcome is already decided before.
If it's not, you're there for you know, very specific
things you get in the G League. I mean, there
are guys that are flat out killers in that league,
(33:05):
like they have obviously big gaps for those are the
reasons they're not in the NBA. But the G League
is a league where guys are out for survival and
to me, that's that's an area where you can you
even see first round draft picks who are maybe be
like not developed that go in there and get exposed
and it really affects them. So to me, that that
(33:25):
to me is going to be the interesting. More interesting
part is how he's able to deal with that a
night in and on a basis when he's playing big
minutes and guys are really really going at him.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, what do you think of him? As a player.
Speaker 7 (33:39):
Yeah, I mean, look, let's just start in general, like
I'm not a fan of small guards, like unless you're
really a guy that can go and get in the
paint and can score and really a lightning up and
down the floor. It's just that I'm talking about the
NBA obviously, Like in college, those guys can find a
(34:00):
on a success, But in the NBA, if you're a
small scoring guard, like you really really be able to
better score just because it's it's hard to defend, no
matter like how athletic you are. So I think that's
number one. I think just from of the game that
I saw the first game, it's Covid. He's a smart
player and he made a couple of really quick decisions
out there. So you know, the the IQ and the
(34:22):
intelligence on the floor isn't you know, isn't going to
be a factor. I think just the reality is like
when you're a small guard and you're not really like
you're not really a lead in one area of the game,
like what are you going to hang your hat on?
And so that would be my question is what what
area of the game can he develop where he is
a lead enough where he could you know, hang his
(34:43):
hat on it.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
In the NBA. Yeah, I mean people say the defense,
but I mean I even watch defensively, he doesn't try
and guard the ball. He goes and runs to somebody
who's in the corner. You know, it's like similar to
in terms of playing point guard, like he anyone who
was selling to, say's point guard, Like he didn't even
want to be point caret you don't want the ball,
like he'll get it and try and go score it.
But that's not really what a lead guard does either
(35:06):
at either end of the floor. And then you know,
in terms of uh, in terms of bringing some sort
of value, right, like the best value you can bring
is you have you will guard your position and then
guard on switches and then make the reason stay out
of the way. And I don't think that he seems
to be have that mentality of really wanting to be
a dog defensively.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
Well look at look at I mean, in the last
couple of years, a smaller guard who was one of
the elite college of centers, Davion Mitchell, right, like Davion Mitchell,
you know, had a better, nice couple of first years.
But he's like most players in the NBA kind of
still trying to find his way and hang his hat
on something like sure, and to me, to me, I
(35:45):
don't see him as the level of like Davion Mitchell
was the guy that proved that on a big time stage. Sure,
you know that's a part.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Won a national title. And for people don't know, Davion
Mitchell's nickname is off night because if you guarding you
you were having an off night. It's great nickname, by
the way, awesome nick because he's go ahead.
Speaker 7 (36:03):
That's the level of defender. When you're hanging your fat
on and when you're a small guard and you're hanging
you out of defense, those are your coops.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Pat Garrett is our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb
Show on Fox Sports Radio. Okay, so the Lakers offseason,
they had Ronnie, They go and draft a big time
kind of experienced score from college, but I don't know
how much that's going to help you. They strike out
(36:35):
on on Klay Thompson, and so they're kind of status
quo with a little bit of money to spend. What
are your thoughts in the Lakers offseason?
Speaker 7 (36:44):
Well, I mean, they don't really have that much money
to spend right now. Because they're ten million dollars over
the first apron so as it stands right now, like
even the Paul George or excuse me, Demarta Rosan situation, like,
I don't know how that they were going to be
able to make a sign and trade work just because
of the rules of not being able to take a
guy in a sign and trade when you're over the apron. Look,
(37:08):
I think that they were in a tough spot. I
think that wisely, maybe after not being able to get Clay,
I think they said, let's bring this group back. We
have two first round picks, let's try to get off
to a good start to the season, and then maybe
if we're going in the right direction, we can do
something with the guys that we have under contract in
(37:29):
some combination of that pick or those two picks twenty
five and twenty seven, and then go get another guy.
And really, I think that that probably probably was their
best shot. I don't really have much of a criticism
after they weren't able to land Clay. I think that
that maybe was the one move where it would have
given him a better shot, I think to be a
(37:52):
better team. But after not being able to bring him in,
I have no problem with what they kind of did
and just be in patience.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Okay, Clippers and what what Paul George considered a low
ball offer. Eventually they got to the level of three
for one fifty. What are your thoughts on the Clippers
and how they handled Paul George.
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Well, well, this is this, this is a situation that's
a little bit different than the Lakers, Like I don't
understand that at all. Like, so, number one, for the
next two years, you're going to be pretty much married
to Kawhi and James Harden and Norm Powell, Like I
probably could train Norm Paler, but he's going to be
(38:33):
on the rush. So so you are going to be deep,
deep within the luxury text no matter if you bring
Paul George back or not. So to me, the thing
that didn't make sense is the fourth year, Like why
at that point are you caring about the fourth year?
Like you're going to be in this situation and you're
going to have this team for the next two years
(38:54):
and you don't really have a fallback option. So to me,
the only reason why it makes sense is that they're thinking,
look this team as it is, and maybe with Paul
George Beck isn't isn't good enough to be a top
four team in the West, and maybe this is the
start of kind of a slow unwind to this group.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
It's weird though, that going into a new arena when
you're going to resign Kawhi Leonard, you wouldn't resign Paul
George and trying and try and get as much juice
out of that orange as you could, no question.
Speaker 7 (39:28):
And again I go back. It seemed like, and this
is coming from Paul George, which by the way, having
these player podcasts where they just go out and like
go open kimono on the entire negotiation is great. It's
great viewing. But again, the decision seemed to be a
three year contract with a no trade clause, and so
the Clippers didn't want to give that. I'm fine with that,
(39:49):
but if you're not, then just why not give the
fourth year? Like who knows what's going to happen four
years from now, But at least at least then you
have the guy who is a three time All Star.
You have your team for the you know, for the
next two years, and then in the third year, then
then you can work to unwind it. If it's not
going in the right direction, But right now, I don't
(40:11):
know where they turn to get better over the next
two years.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, everybody's talking about that second apron. Obviously, this collective
Barton agreement is different than the one that you helped
authored kind of back in the day, if you will,
Was that twenty ten? Was that the one you did
twenty ten?
Speaker 7 (40:27):
Two thousand and five?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Okay, so two thousand and five, talk me through in
as concise a fashion as you can talk me through
the difference in the aprons.
Speaker 7 (40:37):
Well, well, right now, they what they do is they
just put really harsh restrictions. And there are the restrictions
involving draft picks getting frozen. But you know, I think
the thing that we've seen play out right now is
Number one, you're not able to accept the player in
a sign and trade if doing so put you above
(40:58):
the first apron out because player signed. So number one
like that takes like if you're a team, it's above
the salary cap. That's really the only way you're going
to get big money free agents is you have to
do sign and trades, and so it limits number one,
your ability to do sign and trades. Now, the second
apron is even more harsh because what that does is
it eliminates your ability to aggregate player salaries to make
(41:22):
a trade. So like, if you have two guys making
ten million dollars a year, if you're under the stake
and in communffirm, you can trade them. You have a
twenty million dollar trade exception. You can bring a twenty
million dollar player in like as simple as that can be. Like,
you can't do that if you're above the second apron
and so you're you're restricted to the world where you're
trading one for one. So again, it's just a much
(41:43):
more restrictive it's a much more restrictive set of rules
for these teams. And look for fans, I mean of
teams that aren't competitive right now, maybe you like it
because it puts you in the running every year free
agency and makes free agency much more of a reality.
But for these teams that have like Boston or like Minnesota,
(42:09):
oh case he is going to be in this situation
in three years that have done really great work in
the draft and put these really fantastic teams together, Like,
it's just going to be much much more difficult to
keep them together. You know, five six years down the
road from when those guys were all on the rookie contracts.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
He's Pat Pat Garretty. You can check them out on
Stadium Sports. He's the best, BG is the best man.
Thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Thanks be let
express some plumbed professionals. Help hire your next bro. Forget
about boasting jobs, sifting through resumes, interviews with unqualified applicants.
Moved to the bros. Good expresspros dot com to find
location near you. That's expresspros dot com. Can I tell
you my favorite Pat Garretty story for real quick? Jason Stewart. Yes,
(42:48):
I was a I was a freshman. He was a sophomore.
He was our best player, and he was a I
think a chemical engineering major, something really crazy smart, and
he got to be and I was. I never forget.
I was sitting with Fran McCaffrey's now the IOWA head coach,
and he called Pat Garretty into the office and he's like, Pat,
you got to be in such and such. We didn't
(43:10):
bring it in here to get bees. I got a
frand no problem won't happen again. And like he walked out.
He was clearly upset that he'd got in a b
and he never got another B and he walked out
and Fran was like, I was just messing with him,
Like I don't know
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR of America. Doug
Gottlieb Show, Foxsports Radio Coming to you from the tyrag
(00:25):
dot com studios tyrat dot com. Well we get there
on max selection, fast, free shipping, free road as protection
over twenty four So we're ten thousand, was it? Why
is my brain not functioning correctly? Ten thousand recommends sellers
tyraight dot Comswait tire buying should be welcome in. You know,
(00:47):
there's something interesting that happened today with Klay Thompson. Yes,
we'll talk about Cooper Flag upcoming in in fifteen minutes.
Something interesting happened with Klay Thompson. If you've worked at
a company for a long time, I think in many
ways you understand what happened between Klay Thompson and the Warriors,
(01:11):
and it really sucks, but there is something to it
which I completely get so Klay Thompson is an all
time great warrior. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.
He's Game six Clay. And look, if we're honest about it,
he's not in the Hall of really good that played
(01:33):
for a really long time. But he's also not in
the elite, elite wing of the Hall of Fame. Right
like truth is a true Hall of Fame, I think
Klay Thompson would get in, But the true Hall of
Fame should be only the best of the best of
the best, and he was probably the best pure shooter
in the league. Right'm pure shooter and we could kind
(01:54):
of get into the world stuff. Cour is the greatest
shooter of all time. Well, it's it's different. Styles are
different in terms of cat shoot shooter, I don't know
if there's ever been anyone as good as Clay. And
he's a two way player. He played. He was a
very good defender, but he was never the best player
on that team. An incredibly dangerous weapon that had gravity
(02:14):
and could hit you for twenty in a second and
did bail them out, especially against the Oklahoma City Thunder
in Game six. That's where he got the Game six
Clay reputational that the other game six. But the point
is the point is Klay Thompson's the Hall of Famer,
is a great player. Today he had his press conference
(02:35):
because he is officially a Dallas Maverick, and he explained
today why he chose the Mavericks to be what's likely
his final home in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I'm very grateful for my time at Golden State, but
I just felt like moving on could just re energize
me and do something special for the rest of my career.
Dallas was so attracted because of the young players they have,
the style of play, the world class treatment these players
get from this organization, and just a beautiful city who
(03:09):
loves their hoops. When I was watching the playoffs and
I'm watching the mass you know, make a run for
the championship, I just saw myself fitting in really well
with this team and the personnel, and they look like
they have fun playing with each other. They play for
each other, and that was very attractive for me, and
that's really all I needed to see. And there's mutual
interest there and that's why I'm here.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Right somewhere
in between, Hey, we want you back and we love you.
Think you're the greatest Ever is where where Golden State landed?
And Dallas made him feel like he was more important. Look,
he chose Dallas and Dallas was maybe the second, maybe
(03:51):
the third highest bidder. I didn't choose the Lakers, And
we all talked about that, right, talked about that on
this show about how it's it is not sort of
it is completely damning towards the LA Lakers to not
have uh, you know, to not have Klay Thompson choose
(04:12):
them when Clay Thompson is kind of a lifelong Laker
that was always thought to be, Hey, that's where he's
gonna go, and it just didn't work out that way
and didn't work out that way only because Clay chose
to not go there. Right, That's all that really happened.
But I think we can all sort of relate, can't we,
(04:35):
to what happened in in Golden State? And isn't that possible?
Isn't that fair? Right? Like he'd been there for a
long time, he felt I don't want to say disenchanted,
but he felt like he wasn't feeling the love that
(04:56):
that happens. It happens in so many busines.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
This is.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
How many businesses have you been a part of that
You've been there for a long time. I'm like, listen,
I can tell you when I was at ESPN. And
one of the reasons that ESPN has lost people over
the years is not because they had their final bid.
Isn't where it should be. It's a lot like the
Paul George thing, a lot like here with the with
the Klay Thompson thing. That first offer where people want
(05:26):
to come in low right, that first offer is so
low that you're like, what excuse me, I'll give you
a firsthand. Okay, Now this was not the time I
left ESPN, but after my first contract. The way my
first contract was structured was I got an amount of
(05:46):
money for doing radio. And I did radio at the
time four days a week, six hours a day. There's
a show called Game Night with Chuck Wills. Chuck is
was just awesome. What a great teacher and human being
to learn radio from. I wasn't a college broadcasting student.
I took one class in the Journalism Broadcasting Building at
(06:09):
Oklahoma State. It was a marketing class. Actually two one
was a sports law class business law class. Be law
with Andrew Yurick anyway. So I had no real background
other than I had done local radio for a year
and I had done spots on other shows, and I'd
filled in a local show, but I don't really know
anything about especially national sports radio. And Chuck was my teacher.
(06:32):
I worked one hundred and eighty days. I also had
eight contracted games, and that's it. That was my contract.
And the way it worked was if I was going
to do TV, and the late Great Barry Sachs was
running ESPN News at the time, if I was gonna
do TV, I had to come in on days when
(06:54):
I was doing radio because I had an overage that
means a use above It's like overtime above that of
my contract. And it was I don't know what it was,
one thousand dollars a day or maybe more or something
like that. It's good money, but they didn't want to
pay it. And even though I was doing six hours radio,
if I want to do TV, fine, I had to
do it on a day I was doing radio. It
(07:15):
was a three year contract. By the end of the
three year contract, I was doing TV and getting paid
additionally for TV. And I'll never forget The first offer
that came in was above that of what my contract was,
but it was below what I'd actually made in the
two previous years because somebody hadn't been alerted to the
(07:36):
fact that I was doing TV and I was getting overage.
So imagine if you're making I don't know, fifty thousand
dollars and at the end of the year, you clear
seventy five thousand dollars and somebody comes in and says, hey,
great news, We're going to pay you sixty five thousand
dollars for the next three years. Like, well, say, I've
been making seventy five thousand dollars the last two years,
(07:57):
what do you like. You're giving me a pay cut,
you know. And eventually you negotiate and you threaten to
go out, and there becomes a window in which you
can get competition and you get closer and closer to
the number that you want. Even my final contract, which
again by the time I walked from ESPN, was a
five year deal, it was really good money. I have
(08:20):
no issues with the ESPN and all, but the initial
contract was really flat of what I had made in
the previous contract, Like, well, we're gonna give you a
three percent raise. That's what we're gonna do. Okay, We're
gonna give you a three percent raise. And so I
had to go out and negotiate, got an offer from CBS,
(08:41):
which actually ended up being above that of ESPN. But
the point is, and here's how it relates to Paul George.
Here's how it relates to Klay Thompson is, even though
that's not their final offer, and even though that's all
part of the business, when you've been somewhere for my
espno is there for nine years. I mean, look at
that long Klay Thompson, his entire career been spent in
(09:02):
Golden State. When you come in, you come in law,
you're like, what are we doing? Just come in with
what the final number is going to be and have
a real conversation. And the conversation is, hey, now look
the Klay Thompson thing. They they told they were going
to bring him off the bench. He didn't want to
come out the bench. And the truth is, Clay Thompson
doesn't need to come off the bench. He just can't
be your second best player. If you want to win
(09:23):
a championship, he has to be your fourth or fifth
best score to win a championship. That has to be
the plan, and that's Dallas's plan and it actually works.
But we can call it agism, you know, we could
call it kind of timing out. There's a certain born
on date. It's almost like a relationship. Right, have you
(09:44):
ever ever heard that expression? Every for every beautiful woman,
there's a guy that's that's tired of being with her. Right,
whatever it is, there is this sense of complacency and
maybe false sense of what loyalty means from companies at times.
(10:05):
And look, a lot of it is a lot of it.
There is truth to it. Right, when you get older,
you're not a killer nearly as much as you used
to be. You won't grind like you did in your
twenties and thirties. You got a family, you got kids,
you got perspective. You can get all your work done
and get out and still be just as effective in
your own mind. Like you don't have that same you
(10:27):
want to have the same energy towards it. But you're
not like a psychopath. You're not like skipping birthdays and
skipping recitals. Like you're a human being as you should be.
And oh yeah, by the way, as an athlete, you're
not as productive as you need to be. Clay Thompson
is not a max player. Heck, Paul George isn't the
number one option by his own estimation. But there's a
(10:48):
way in which those conversations have to be have. There's
a way in which you have to negotiate, which is
different than any other sort of negotiation. And the different
way is, hey, listen, here's the deal. Here's how is
the most we're going to pay you. We are not
going to negotiate with you out of respect to you,
(11:09):
and if you can't make a work for that, it's fine.
It's been awesome, but it's actually disrespectful to go through
the traditional process of le me go low, you go, Hi,
We try and meet in the middle. Whoever ends up
on their side of the middle wins. Jase, do am
I wrong? Like? That feels what happened to Clay and
to a lesser extent, Paul George feels like every negotiation
(11:33):
for every employee that's been in a company for a
decade or more.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Ever, no, I think you're right. I think you're right.
And to add to that, I think that everyone who's
listening right now, including everybody in the studio I think
shares one thing about their job. They want to be
valued by the people that employ them. They want to
(11:57):
feel valued. And I just think that the longer you
stay at a place, the more chances there are of
feeling devalued or taking advantage of or complacency sets in.
And I just think that Clay reached that point with
ownership a couple of years ago at the Warriors according
to some reports, where he's been miserable for a couple
of years. But we could all relate to that, right,
(12:19):
We all just want to feel valued, and I'm guessing
the Mavericks set all the right things to make them
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Sure, sure, I mean, look, this happens in relationships, not
just in you know, in business relationships, relationships as well,
and I think we all get the kind of wandering
eye and business as well. Where you you know you drive.
I used to drive down a street when I was
at ESPN called Huckleberry Hill, and I just remember driving
down Huckleberry Hill for like six years straight and it
(12:47):
was great, especially in the fall the leaves are changing.
I wouldn't have any music on had the windows just
cracked open. I feel like man. And then at some
point you go like, am I going to drive down
Huckleberry Hill? My entire life is this how my life ends?
But I just drive down Huckleberry Hill. And then when
you leave, you're like, man, I miss Huckleberry Hill and
driving down that hill. But that's the reality to kind
of mankind is we all wonder what the grass is
(13:08):
like on the other side. And you know our grass,
sometimes you take it for granted, you don't treat it
as well, you don't worry about Ah, it's just a
little crab grass. It'll go away next season. That sort
of thing. Whereas you go to somebody else's like, man,
look at how manicured this lawn is. Yeah, we all
want to feel valued. That is twenty twenty four. We
(13:33):
all want to feel valued. We all want to feel hurt.
And whatever was done in both those situations, neither guy
felt valued, neither guy felt hurt, and it could becomes
really easy for the new guy, you know, to recruit
you to that idea of being valued, when the truth
is that Golden State knows his flaws better than Clay
(13:56):
even does, but it's how he feels that those laws
are being focused on instead of when you go to
a new place. Only the positives, only the superlatives are
being focused on. I don't know. I just I listened
to him talk today and Jason and I we came
to the same conclusion, like this is every fifty plus
(14:16):
year old male worker in America who's been in a
place for a decade. You're like, man, I just don't
feel valued anymore. Like I got to go start that
clock over. Then you go to a new place, but
you don't have the sweat equity. You still bring in
a reputation, but then you have a very different culture
you got. It's not easy. Staying's not easy. Leaving is
not easy. Very human though.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
This is the best of the Done dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
One of what you dog gott Leap Show Fox Sports Radio,
coming to you from the tyrat dot com studios tyret
dot com. If you get their unmatched election, fast free shipping,
free road asprotection, over ten thousand recommend installars tyrat dot com,
That's the way the tire by should be. I've said
this before that I think one of the biggest challenges
(15:12):
in a man's life is not just making it. Matter
of fact, making it is probably the second hardest challenge
you'll have. It's staying atop there, and there's a balance there.
You want to stay motivated and you also want to
stay humble. I read this story earlier today from Tim Bonteps.
(15:33):
Tim bontepscuse me, who wrote fresh off winning an NBA
title and signing a record contract extension over the weekend,
Jason Tatum arrived in sim City for his first Team
USA training camp practice Monday with the fresh haircut and
feeling that the weight was lifted off his shoulders. Just
being the topic of discussion of so many debates or
whatever it is. Can he lead a team? Is he
a top five player? There's still a lot of things.
(15:55):
I guess they can debate, but what I've done they
can't debate. I won a championship. Having that under my belt,
Like obviously it's still a conversation whether to be had
or whatever people want to say. But they've always got
to refer to me as an NBA champion. Yeah, now, look,
(16:16):
he is a champion. Unlike Dwight Howard, who after losing
in the playoffs said I'm still a champion when he's
We didn't win a championship until the COVID championship with
the Lakers, which still sort of a championship, right, But
the interesting part about it is, I'm not sure what
debate he settled. He's right, we do have to point
(16:39):
out he's an NBA champion. That does not settle any
sort of debate. I mean, I guess if you want
to make the debate, hey can they Cohen's can Jalen
Brown and Jason Tatum work together win a championship? There's
a portion of time where that was some sort of debate.
I'm not sure this debate does more a question that
has been answered. That has been answered, But there's also
(17:04):
the let's we're settling all debates. That's it. I settle debates.
That's that's just feeling yourself. And it's fascinating. I understand.
This is the way the NBA works. Where a guy
gets done, and even though he had a second straight
disappointing finals, we reward him with the biggest contract in
(17:25):
the history of professional sports because he's next guy up
and he's a really good player. But it actually didn't
settle any debates as to whether or not he's a
top five player. Did it, Like, do we put him
in the pantheon of Joel Embiid, of Nikola Jokic, of
Luca Frankly, I don't don't think so, and and obviously
(17:51):
Yannis getting hurt. But when you get hurt or Embiid
has gotten hurt, when your team doesn't and you don't
play well and your team still wins, as opposed to
you don't play well and your team loses, I actually
think it settles the debate as to who won. Was
it your team or was it you individually? I mean,
(18:11):
with this group right now, Jason Tatum is a fabulous player.
This is not in any way me telling you Jayson
Tatum stinks. But if you had to choose in a
game today, would you even start him? On USA Basketball? Remember?
USA basketball doesn't have Giannis, doesn't have Yokich. I wouldn't.
(18:31):
I wouldn't. But Jason Tatum wants to believe that he's
settled all debates by being part of a tremendous championship
year where they have the best season, the best regular
season record, and of course won the postseason as well.
It's like you want to pull them aside and go Stason.
That's not exactly a debate that you're an NBA champion.
(18:54):
That's a fact. A debate is whether or not you're
a top five player, and that's still debate. Most people
are on the other side of it, right And you
can just see Jayson Tatum going no, no, no, I sell
that debate. We won a championship, like no, no, It's
(19:15):
it's the hardest thing, you know. I did the NBA
Draft for I started at ESPN doing it, so nine
years of the ESPN, and I did it for I
think five years elsewhere, either with Fox Sports Radio. I
did it with Stadium Sports as well. And I remember
there'd be so many of these players who, like Jason Tatum,
(19:36):
are just really fabulous people. When you meet him and
they come out in the NBA Draft and they're nineteen
twenty twenty one years old, and you want to grab him.
And sometimes we would grab him, pull them aside and
go like, hey man, just my hope for you is
you have this great career in that five six years
from now, when we meet up somewhere on a street,
you're the exact same guy then as you are now.
(19:58):
And I'm not saying he went Hollywood or went to
his head, but I think there's somewhere in between that
and staying humble, and he's very very close to the
it going to his head phase. Well, we've ended all
debates because you have to call me a champion. Yeah,
(20:19):
that's not actually how the debates ended. The question was
whether or not you could play well in the finals,
and you had a really one, really good game. The
question was whether or not you and Jalen Brown could
co exist. That's fair, you can Jalen Brown did co exist.
Jalen Brown played better than you in the finals. It's
also fair to say, hey, you were top of the skyingport.
(20:41):
That's okay, that's a hard way to live. They were
focused on you. But you've played two NBA finals. You
have him an exceptional consistently in either of them. So
if there's a debate about where you are at the
top of the food chain, I'd say that debate is
still out there. Well, no one can debate if you're
not an NBA that you're an NBA champion. Jase w
(21:02):
am I missing something. Is there some sort of debate
that he settled that we don't know about.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
I mean, I think I could speculate. It's I'm guessing
that there have been a few segments on first Take
and Undisputed? Can Jason Tatum win at all? Does he
have what it takes to win at all? How about
the debate of who's the best player right now to
not have a championship? I think he can end that one.
(21:29):
He's can remove his name from that debate. But he
started a new debate which player reads his press clippings
the most, Kevin Durant or Jason Tatum. And I love
the phrase press clippings because it's very dated. There's no
such thing as clippings of presses anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Sam, do you even know what press clippings were? Oh?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Come on, Doug.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Yes, I have read newspapers in my life.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I have. When was the last time he read a newspaper?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Probably?
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Well, like the only place you can really find a newspaper,
I feel like is like at the airport, And probably
the last time I flew I bought a paper. And yes,
I'm actually over the course of my life cut out
clippings and our very own Andy Furman, who does weekend
shows here at FSR. He sends me press clippings.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
All the time.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
He does, Yes, And I love them for it because
they're great.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Isaac strucks me as a guy.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
That, Yeah, Isaac, Isaac also has like boards you know
of what's what? What what? Isaac? That was a deep breath.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Like I clearly now I seek press clippings from Doug crecorians.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
The Herald Examiner. Yeah, I clearly need to update my
branding and juice up my following on TikTok if that's
what you guys are going to assume.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
But thank you anyway.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
No, back in the day, back in the day, I
would keep stacks of them underneath my bed when I
was growing up. It was an enormous fire hazard. But
that was your internet back then. If you wanted to
look up some sports statistics or something you were interesting
interested in from three weeks ago or else, you had
to wait a year for the old Sports Almanac.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
To come out.
Speaker 6 (23:15):
Oh yeah, how did we live back then, Doug? How
did we live?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Your mom must have put together a scrap book of
your press clippings, right, you must have that somewhere, Doug.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I do. I do? I have one. I have one
that my mom put together, and then I have one
that I think her name was Amy Lavicky, who was
like a super fan. She was a young like teenager
when I was in college, and she put together an
unbelievable want to play in Oakland State, no question. Yeah,
I think there's nothing like some press clippings. I'm a
(23:46):
big fan of them.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Newspapers and magazines are still important for if you want
you have, like some notable moment in your your team's history,
and you want to frame that put it on your wall.
You still need something tangible. So I liked the full
color layout. You know, I have stuff from Iowa football
and other other sports. Kaitlin Clark, It's still important.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
February nineteen ninety five by Chris Foster. Loaded with Options,
Tustin point guard Doug Gottlieb has plenty of choices when
he wants to make a play.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Wow, pretty good. Chris Foster did a good job. There's
also there was a I was on the front page
of USA Today, like my third year at ESPN. I mean, now,
it was more than that because the girls were little.
I think it was before we had my son or
maybe so, I'm gonna guess that was two thousand went there,
two thousand and six, probably in the two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine variety. Yeah, there's a there's a
(24:37):
big front cover spread on USA Today.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
What's what's this from?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I have a bunch of those ones if anybody wants one.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
What's this from two thousand and six the Oklahoma and
an article titled the Collected Wisdom of Doug gottlieb.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Oh, that's a good one. What's that say? I forgot?
I forgot? That's Barry Trammel mm hmm. And he calls
and he just asks you a bunch of questions.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
So he so he So you got along with him
better than he got along with Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Huh nobody got along?
Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
And look, Berry is a really talented writer. He could
tweak you a little bit. But in that particular case,
it was just a you know, in your own words
sort of thing. Anything jump out, shilo.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
Oh at everything. Let's see, broadcasting is a perception based business.
You can have your best show and somebody doesn't get it,
or somebody missed it. There's no score at the end
of it in TV or radio. There's no scoreboard. That
breeds a lot of insecurity in our business.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh. I think that's that's that is some wisdom that
rings true all these years later. Baby That's some wisdom,
isn't it. Thought that was pretty good, kind of proud
of myself that aged, well, that did age. Well, that's
my What year was that? Two thousand and six?
Speaker 6 (25:47):
Two thousand and six. The next item is I think
the IDA. I think the iPhone will go the way
of the Dodo birds. So I guess you missed on
that one.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I said that.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
No, I'm kidding, what what?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
What?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I said, but I did have ESP on the phone.
I thought that was awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
What issues you're like?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I said that, Yeah, that one is that one? That one?
If that was in my autobiography, I would have said
I was misquoted my own autobiography.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Fox
sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Doug Gotlelip Show Fox Sports Radio. It's always interesting to me, obviously,
as you all know, I'm the new head coach at
at Green Bay. But part of it is I've been
in the au culture or AU scene since I played
in it. Then my dad had a program I coached
for him. Uh and then obviously I took over his
program after his passing and I've been around it. I mean,
(26:49):
Cooper Flag has been uh frankly the great White hope
for the last couple of years in AU basketball, Like, man,
what's that going to look like when he gets to college?
What's that going to look like when he gets to
the NBA? But just I mean last year on the
eybl circuit, like just completely and utterly and thoroughly dominant.
(27:09):
And he's seventeen years old. And something other else that's
interesting is, you know, we have our seventeen U team
that just won, you know, a gold medal and has
We've never lost in seventeen U and they were just
that that class is ridiculous. Cooper Fly could play on
that team, but instead he's scrimmaging against Team USA. But
(27:33):
it's it's fascinating that all of a sudden, now it's
like mainstream people or fans are like, who wow, or
I've heard of him, but I can't believe how good
he is. I neither can win. But if there was
ever a question about will it translate to that level,
the answer is yeah. I mean the kids that could
(27:54):
and I believe good enough to bring men's college basketball
back to the fore front, you know, not that Yukon
hasn't been great the past two years, but this past
year there was as much or more excitement about the
women than that we're the men. Now. Caitlyn Clark graduates,
so too Angel Reese obviously also in the in the
(28:16):
w NBA. It's not that we don't know or like
Paige Becker's but there's always been great women's college best plaers.
But when Duke has Zion, Duke has, I mean you
name it, or a Kentucky or one of the blue
Birds has the elite kid. Now it's Duke. Now we
(28:40):
pay a lot more attention and there's some substance that
goes to it. Pat Gerdale joined us in a moment.
He's a former an NBA front office analyst. He is
a former He's an NBA analyst for Stadium Sports, a
former NBA executive, also used to be the head of
the Players Association back when they wrote one of the
previous cbash So he can give us a sense of
(29:00):
what's changed and what the Tier two tax, what that
all means to those of us who are just fans.
Stug got THEAB Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Let's
welcome in. Pat Garrity who he was the great White
Hope back when I played with him at Notes Youre Dame.
Before he played ten years in the NBA, he's been
an NBA executive. He's a Dukey too, because he's got
(29:21):
an NBA from Duke. And by the way, he also
has had the Players Association back when they wrote the
CBA and PG. I'm just wondering your thoughts take put
on your evaluator hat. As a guy who like Cooper
Flag is your size, different sort of game, what are
your thoughts on on what it looks like he will
(29:42):
look like when he gets on an NBA floor.
Speaker 7 (29:44):
Oh, you're breaking up a little bit. First of all,
good be with you. We're talking Ronnie here right, No.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
No, no, no, no no, we're talking Cooper Flag.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Oh, Cooper Fla. Sorry about that. Yeah, you are breaking
up alot of the bed at the beginning. Look, I
haven't seen a ton of him. I watched a little
bit of the clips from USA Basketball and then was
intrigued that went back and watched some vwad elp Up.
I mean, he has a chance to be a terrific player.
And I think that you have the three things that
(30:13):
when you combine them like every coach wants in a player.
Number one is his size. Number two is his athletic
ability and the skill to match that, because we know
that you a lot of times can have big guys
that are tremendously athletic and active and have high motors,
but not necessarily to have the skill. And he certainly
(30:35):
has both. And I think the third part is at
a young age, the motor and it's just to me,
it looks like a natural thing with him. It doesn't
look like anything it's had to been coached or anything.
He's just naturally a guy that looks super super competitive
and play art. So when you put size, competitiveness, skill,
athleticson together, you have the makings of a guy who
(30:56):
could be a very very good player in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, yeah, I know it's it's going to be fascinating,
fascinating to watch. All Right, let's let's talk some Bronnie James.
What was your reaction when the Lakers took him at
fifty five?
Speaker 7 (31:10):
Well, first of all, I thought it was like a
fascinating story to follow leading up to the draft, just
how open and honest Rich Paul was about what he
was or wasn't going to accept, like he said, there's
no way that he's going to sign a two way contract,
and just the brashness of that was certainly something I
(31:31):
think was kind of fun to watch entertaining. Look like,
Bronnie has a long ways to go. He didn't play
a ton of college, just played one season. You know,
you could see that there's like big gaps in his game.
I think that we all it's not a hot take
to say that if he was just another guy, that
he wouldn't have been drafted at all. And so, look
(31:54):
like the situation is what it is. I think that
there's certainly other reasons why you could be interested in
fire following his developments. I mean certainly because of you
know who his dad is. So that's going to be
fun to watch. But you know, to me, a little
bit of a spectacle, I think is the best way
I could describe it.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, it's a lot bit of a spectrum, it really is.
I can't imagine how hard it's going to be for
their for their G League team, and you know, for
their for Dane Johnson, their G league coach, just because
like you want to develop a kid, but you also
want to win and have to develop other people, and
(32:34):
yet you know who is the master who's actually telling
you how to play him, how to use them. I
could not be easy.
Speaker 7 (32:43):
Well, well, the G League to me, for him is
is going to be even tougher than if he were
to be put in an NBA game. You get you
throw in an NBA game, it's going to be for
short minutes. Maybe maybe the outcome is already decided before.
If it's not, you're there for you know, very specific
things you get in the G League. I mean, there
are guys that are flat out killers in that league,
(33:05):
like they have obviously big gaps for those are the
reasons they're not in the NBA. But the G League
is a league where guys are out for survival and
to me, that's that's an area where you can you
even see first round draft picks who are maybe be
like not developed that go in there and get exposed
and it really affects them. So to me, that that
(33:25):
to me is going to be the interesting. More interesting
part is how he's able to deal with that a
night in and on a basis when he's playing big
minutes and guys are really really going at him.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, what do you think of him? As a player.
Speaker 7 (33:39):
Yeah, I mean, look, let's just start in general, like
I'm not a fan of small guards, like unless you're
really a guy that can go and get in the
paint and can score and really a lightning up and
down the floor. It's just that I'm talking about the
NBA obviously, Like in college, those guys can find a
(34:00):
on a success, But in the NBA, if you're a
small scoring guard, like you really really be able to
better score just because it's it's hard to defend, no
matter like how athletic you are. So I think that's
number one. I think just from of the game that
I saw the first game, it's Covid. He's a smart
player and he made a couple of really quick decisions
out there. So you know, the the IQ and the
(34:22):
intelligence on the floor isn't you know, isn't going to
be a factor. I think just the reality is like
when you're a small guard and you're not really like
you're not really a lead in one area of the game,
like what are you going to hang your hat on?
And so that would be my question is what what
area of the game can he develop where he is
a lead enough where he could you know, hang his
(34:43):
hat on it.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
In the NBA. Yeah, I mean people say the defense,
but I mean I even watch defensively, he doesn't try
and guard the ball. He goes and runs to somebody
who's in the corner. You know, it's like similar to
in terms of playing point guard, like he anyone who
was selling to, say's point guard, Like he didn't even
want to be point caret you don't want the ball,
like he'll get it and try and go score it.
But that's not really what a lead guard does either
(35:06):
at either end of the floor. And then you know,
in terms of uh, in terms of bringing some sort
of value, right, like the best value you can bring
is you have you will guard your position and then
guard on switches and then make the reason stay out
of the way. And I don't think that he seems
to be have that mentality of really wanting to be
a dog defensively.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
Well look at look at I mean, in the last
couple of years, a smaller guard who was one of
the elite college of centers, Davion Mitchell, right, like Davion Mitchell,
you know, had a better, nice couple of first years.
But he's like most players in the NBA kind of
still trying to find his way and hang his hat
on something like sure, and to me, to me, I
(35:45):
don't see him as the level of like Davion Mitchell
was the guy that proved that on a big time stage. Sure,
you know that's a part.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Won a national title. And for people don't know, Davion
Mitchell's nickname is off night because if you guarding you
you were having an off night. It's great nickname, by
the way, awesome nick because he's go ahead.
Speaker 7 (36:03):
That's the level of defender. When you're hanging your fat
on and when you're a small guard and you're hanging
you out of defense, those are your coops.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Pat Garrett is our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb
Show on Fox Sports Radio. Okay, so the Lakers offseason,
they had Ronnie, They go and draft a big time
kind of experienced score from college, but I don't know
how much that's going to help you. They strike out
(36:35):
on on Klay Thompson, and so they're kind of status
quo with a little bit of money to spend. What
are your thoughts in the Lakers offseason?
Speaker 7 (36:44):
Well, I mean, they don't really have that much money
to spend right now. Because they're ten million dollars over
the first apron so as it stands right now, like
even the Paul George or excuse me, Demarta Rosan situation, like,
I don't know how that they were going to be
able to make a sign and trade work just because
of the rules of not being able to take a
guy in a sign and trade when you're over the apron. Look,
(37:08):
I think that they were in a tough spot. I
think that wisely, maybe after not being able to get Clay,
I think they said, let's bring this group back. We
have two first round picks, let's try to get off
to a good start to the season, and then maybe
if we're going in the right direction, we can do
something with the guys that we have under contract in
(37:29):
some combination of that pick or those two picks twenty
five and twenty seven, and then go get another guy.
And really, I think that that probably probably was their
best shot. I don't really have much of a criticism
after they weren't able to land Clay. I think that
that maybe was the one move where it would have
given him a better shot, I think to be a
(37:52):
better team. But after not being able to bring him in,
I have no problem with what they kind of did
and just be in patience.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Okay, Clippers and what what Paul George considered a low
ball offer. Eventually they got to the level of three
for one fifty. What are your thoughts on the Clippers
and how they handled Paul George.
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Well, well, this is this, this is a situation that's
a little bit different than the Lakers, Like I don't
understand that at all. Like, so, number one, for the
next two years, you're going to be pretty much married
to Kawhi and James Harden and Norm Powell, Like I
probably could train Norm Paler, but he's going to be
(38:33):
on the rush. So so you are going to be deep,
deep within the luxury text no matter if you bring
Paul George back or not. So to me, the thing
that didn't make sense is the fourth year, Like why
at that point are you caring about the fourth year?
Like you're going to be in this situation and you're
going to have this team for the next two years
(38:54):
and you don't really have a fallback option. So to me,
the only reason why it makes sense is that they're thinking,
look this team as it is, and maybe with Paul
George Beck isn't isn't good enough to be a top
four team in the West, and maybe this is the
start of kind of a slow unwind to this group.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
It's weird though, that going into a new arena when
you're going to resign Kawhi Leonard, you wouldn't resign Paul
George and trying and try and get as much juice
out of that orange as you could, no question.
Speaker 7 (39:28):
And again I go back. It seemed like, and this
is coming from Paul George, which by the way, having
these player podcasts where they just go out and like
go open kimono on the entire negotiation is great. It's
great viewing. But again, the decision seemed to be a
three year contract with a no trade clause, and so
the Clippers didn't want to give that. I'm fine with that,
(39:49):
but if you're not, then just why not give the
fourth year? Like who knows what's going to happen four
years from now, But at least at least then you
have the guy who is a three time All Star.
You have your team for the you know, for the
next two years, and then in the third year, then
then you can work to unwind it. If it's not
going in the right direction, But right now, I don't
(40:11):
know where they turn to get better over the next
two years.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, everybody's talking about that second apron. Obviously, this collective
Barton agreement is different than the one that you helped
authored kind of back in the day, if you will,
Was that twenty ten? Was that the one you did
twenty ten?
Speaker 7 (40:27):
Two thousand and five?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Okay, so two thousand and five, talk me through in
as concise a fashion as you can talk me through
the difference in the aprons.
Speaker 7 (40:37):
Well, well, right now, they what they do is they
just put really harsh restrictions. And there are the restrictions
involving draft picks getting frozen. But you know, I think
the thing that we've seen play out right now is
Number one, you're not able to accept the player in
a sign and trade if doing so put you above
(40:58):
the first apron out because player signed. So number one
like that takes like if you're a team, it's above
the salary cap. That's really the only way you're going
to get big money free agents is you have to
do sign and trades, and so it limits number one,
your ability to do sign and trades. Now, the second
apron is even more harsh because what that does is
it eliminates your ability to aggregate player salaries to make
(41:22):
a trade. So like, if you have two guys making
ten million dollars a year, if you're under the stake
and in communffirm, you can trade them. You have a
twenty million dollar trade exception. You can bring a twenty
million dollar player in like as simple as that can be. Like,
you can't do that if you're above the second apron
and so you're you're restricted to the world where you're
trading one for one. So again, it's just a much
(41:43):
more restrictive it's a much more restrictive set of rules
for these teams. And look for fans, I mean of
teams that aren't competitive right now, maybe you like it
because it puts you in the running every year free
agency and makes free agency much more of a reality.
But for these teams that have like Boston or like Minnesota,
(42:09):
oh case he is going to be in this situation
in three years that have done really great work in
the draft and put these really fantastic teams together, Like,
it's just going to be much much more difficult to
keep them together. You know, five six years down the
road from when those guys were all on the rookie contracts.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
He's Pat Pat Garretty. You can check them out on
Stadium Sports. He's the best, BG is the best man.
Thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Thanks be let
express some plumbed professionals. Help hire your next bro. Forget
about boasting jobs, sifting through resumes, interviews with unqualified applicants.
Moved to the bros. Good expresspros dot com to find
location near you. That's expresspros dot com. Can I tell
you my favorite Pat Garretty story for real quick? Jason Stewart. Yes,
(42:48):
I was a I was a freshman. He was a sophomore.
He was our best player, and he was a I
think a chemical engineering major, something really crazy smart, and
he got to be and I was. I never forget.
I was sitting with Fran McCaffrey's now the IOWA head coach,
and he called Pat Garretty into the office and he's like, Pat,
you got to be in such and such. We didn't
(43:10):
bring it in here to get bees. I got a
frand no problem won't happen again. And like he walked out.
He was clearly upset that he'd got in a b
and he never got another B and he walked out
and Fran was like, I was just messing with him,
Like I don't know
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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