April 23, 2021 • 38 mins
The NFL Draft nears with some potential future hall of famers and busts alike being drafted in the first round. A man that knows a things or two about being a first round selection joins Ben and David.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Bob. If you thought more hours a day, minutes a
week was enough, I think again. He's the last remnants
of the old Republic, the sole fashion of fairness. He
treats crack heads in the ghetto cutter the same as
the rich pill poppers in the penthouse, to clearinghouse of
hot takes, break free for something special. Fifth Hour with
(00:23):
Ben Maller starts right now in the air everywhere. We
are back at it yet again. Another weekend is upon us,
and we are back at it because we do the
radio show. I do the radio show five nights a week,
as you know, and then we have the spinoff here.
(00:44):
We have a Friday, Saturday and Sunday show. So two
shows on Friday, got two shows kind of on Sunday
in to Monday. And we do thank you for supporting
the podcast, even when there are issues. More on that
coming up. We'll talk about that on the Saturday podcast.
But today is an interview podcast, a conversation, a chat
(01:06):
with someone who we know, someone who we like, someone
that we're curious to talk to. And so, by the way,
Gascon is back this week. David Guescon is back. He's
a he's fun lay in don't get used to it.
This could be his final weekend on a podcast. We
(01:27):
can hope that he goes somewhere else, but he's here
this weekend, booking great A guests yet again, and contend
to shine like like a diamond. That's what I do. Yes,
pat yourself on the back a little more. I actually
a little more pretentious. Yes. Uh. Anyway, this week in
the NFL Draft coming up here just a few days away.
(01:48):
A chance to catch up with a man who is
synonymous with the NFL draft. A number two pick of
the old San Diego Charger show me your lightning bolt
in it was neck and neck. It was belly to
belly between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning. Colts had the
(02:10):
number one pick, the Chargers had the number two pick.
We know how it turned out. If you somehow I forgotten.
It didn't turn out well for Ryan Leaf, one of
the historic NFL Draft bus He only played twenty five
games in the NFL. He said some fights with demons
over the years, but he has continued to counter punch,
and you gotta respect that that Ryan Lee has been
(02:32):
knocked down, he's done time in jail, and he's continued
to fight back. And a lot to a lot to
talk to Ryan Leaf about which we are excited about.
So let's get right into it right now. We welcome
in a now former NFL player for many many years
played with the Chargers and the Cowboys and had a
cup of coffee and training camping off season with some
(02:54):
other teams. But let's bring in Ryan Leaf. We'll start
with the NFL draft. Ryan, We thank you for spend
some time with us year. Put let's start at the
very top. Trevor Lawrence, the number one pick, he presumptive
number one picked by Jacksonville. Is he as good as advertised? Yes?
He is every He's everything in a bag of ships,
I'll give you that. Probably the most complete player UH
(03:18):
coming out of college since Andrew Luck would have been
the number one overall pick after he upset Alabama or
more or less destroyed Alabama. To talk about law in
the National Championship after his freshman year um and to
not move a spot after two years um, which everybody was.
The expectations were so high the only way, only where
(03:40):
only place you could go is is backwards. He didn't.
He is still the UH overwhelmingly presumptive number one overall pick.
And best player in this year's draft. So so Ryan
he's going. It looks like he's going to Jacksonville unless
something crazy happens. Is that a trip to the googlog?
If you William Jacksonville is not actually been a wonderful
(04:01):
outpost in the NFL. I do you put any stock
into that. Let if you get drafted by a team
that's not, you know, not that great, that you are doomed. Well,
I wouldn't. I wouldn't say doomed because Trevor is a
transformational player. Like you could walk into an environment and
he changes the environment. You know, there are guys that
(04:21):
are just guys that are great quarterbacks, but they just
they can't change the environment around them, and it kind
of happens the other way. He's capable of doing that. Unfortunately,
a lot of times when these top draft picks, Uh,
you know, Trevor reminds me a ton of Carson Carson Palmer.
He goes to Cincinnati, there's a couple of great years
where they get get into the playoffs. Um, but that's
(04:42):
as far as they go. You know, you you just
kind of lost, kind of forgotten, never been a Hall
of Famer around of Jacksonville. Tony Baselli could change that
maybe down the line here someday, but um, it's gonna
be really, really difficult. And unfortunately for the likes of
Joe Burrow and Trevor Lawrence, the best quarterbacks each draft
(05:03):
are going to the worst possible teams, and systemically that means,
you know, we probably won't hear from them in terms
of a ton of success at the NFL level. So
so right, I saw a story that I wanted to
ask your opinion on it. There was an a f
C coach they didn't name, of course, who said that
Joe Burrow is better than Trevor Lawrence, that they would
(05:25):
have taken Burrow a hundred times out of a hundred
in the draft if they had both been in the
same draft. You buy that that takers that hyperbole? Well,
I mean their head to head matchup was just an
absolute dismantling. You know, I know it's not, you know,
quarterback versus quarterback, but I mean that's what you're going
off of. Right. Uh, what Joe Burrow did in that
(05:46):
one season in l s U is remarkable. It's it's
absolutely remarkable, and I really think he's gonna change the
environment in Cincinnati. I just you know, um, that's a
that's a coin top, that's that's the Peyton Manning Ryan
leaf right there. If that those two are in the
same draft, I would argue that was exactly the same
in ninety eight, where no one knew who was going
to go one and who was going to go to two.
(06:07):
That I think there'll be a lot of opinions on
both sides of that coin if that had been the
case last year. Yeah, I actually I want to talk
about it. We'll get back to the draft. But back
when you were you and Peyton Manning were neck and
neck for the number one pick. Did you did you
think you were going to go to the Colts? Did
they talked to you like they were gonna draft you?
I mean everyone in the media said it was gonna
(06:28):
be a you know, a last minute decision. How close
do you think he came to being drafted by the
Colts instead of the Chargers. Well, I was hosting Rich
Eyes and the other day and when he was off
and I had Jim mursay on, I had the owner
of the Indianapolis Colts on the show, and I asked
him that specific question, like how close was it, and
he said, well, you know, it was pretty much split
(06:48):
fifty fifty in our in our war room with the scouts,
Bill Polly and who of course the general manager at
the time, who was the final word. He really was
leaning towards Peyton um And and Jim R. Say that
the owner was leaning towards me. And he had asked
a really close confidanta his in the NFL who came
to him a couple of nights before the draft, and
(07:09):
guy he trusted a lot, uh, said to him and said, Jim,
you gotta take that least kit. And luckily for the
Colts and for Jim and for everybody involved, Uh, they didn't.
He he didn't listen to his longtime NFL confidant, and
he and they went with Peyton and that was was
the best best choice they could have made. But if
(07:30):
you if you had gone to Indie like well you,
I mean you obviously had some you know, some some issues.
You've admitted that you you're still battling the stuff occasionally.
But if you had gone to it, he wouldn't have
been different. I mean, you don't know in a parallel dimensions,
if you go to the Colts, is there a different outcome.
You know, I might have been able to keep my
character defects under wrapped a little while longer because they
(07:51):
were there was some more they would have been more
talent around me. But ultimately, you know, I was the problem.
So how you know Peyton through the most touch of
interceptions ever, uh in a season for a rookie, and
uh the team went three and thirteen. I don't know
if I could have dealt with that failure. Um, you know,
I don't know if I could have you know, gotten
(08:13):
through that. I had a really hard time dealing with
failure in a positive way, where Peyton saw it as
an opportunity to do it better the next time and
clearly was the right choice. Um, there's a saying I
use all the time. No matter where you go, there
you are, and and no matter where I went, there
I would have been. And I was definitely the problem.
So I just I just assumed that no matter where
(08:35):
I would have gone or where I would have been drafted, Um,
if it was that high, you know how it went
in the sixth round and no one knew who the
hell I was, There might have been an easier way
to work my way up. But when you're drafted that high. Um,
it's it really wouldn't have mattered where I went. I
was going to Uh, I was going to implode no
matter what. Ryan, What gave you that sense that that
(08:56):
there was going to be an implosure? Like did you
ever get that feeling when you're at Washington State? Never?
Never never got that. No, it was gonna be easy.
I was gonna walk on the football field and do
what I've always done my whole life. It shocked me that, uh,
that the scrutiny came, that the criticism came, that the
fan hatred came, all of this stuff. It was utterly
(09:18):
shocking to me such in a way that I was, Um,
I wasn't shock, you know. And no way in the
world did I see something like that coming down the
coming down the pipe. I don't. I mean, no one did,
clearly because I had. It was one of the highest
graded players ever going into a draft, Payton Manning and
I think there were eight point five in terms of grades,
(09:39):
and you just you just don't see that. I think
Andrew Luck at an eight point eight or something like
that when he came out, and that was the highest
we've ever seen. The relationships that you had when you
were in the National Football League players and coaches and
management alike. What was the biggest one that you regretted
the most and just in terms of how things unfolded
and dissipated. Well, well, you know, just Junior say I
(10:02):
and Rodney Harrison two real leaders on that on that defense.
When I when I came into the league, and um,
I just did not listen or or was willing for
like just glom onto them and asked them how they've
done it and then followed their advice verbatim. That's the best.
That's the advice I give to guys coming into the league,
(10:24):
no matter how highly drafted they are, because it all
starts over. You go into that locker room, you find
a guy that's played ten, twelve years, who's been a
veteran in this league, because that is the odds of
you playing eight odds of you playing at least eight
years is crazy. I think it's like a thousand players
in the history of the NFL to have played eight
seasons in the NFL. You go find those guys, you
(10:45):
look them in the eye, you ask them how they
did it, and when they tell you, you follow their
You follow their guidance verbatim. Any guys that you follow
now verbatim? Oh yeah, plenty. I have a few mentors.
I gotta my sponsors. Thirty two years sober, I follow
I mean every everything he said, I follow him. You
(11:06):
walk into you walk into one of those meeting rooms.
You find a guy that has what you want, you
go ask him how he got it, and then you
follow him and you get the life of your dreams.
And that's exactly where I'm at right now. I mean,
the days, obviously are are not always the highest of highs.
How do you how do you combat the loads of
the lows? You know, they just they don't exist anymore.
(11:28):
I mean, because you know, I was not on the
golf course the other day and I heard a guy
just so upset and screaming about how long the round
was taking. And I looked at him and I said,
I said, man, it could be worse. And he's like,
I don't know how, and I go, you could be
in prison and uh. And he looked at me like
in complete and utter shock, and I go, I go,
(11:51):
so hey, it could be a lot worse, buddy, all right,
let's just enjoy it. So I don't I don't take
anything for granted anymore. Life is life. Life is hard.
But I mean the amount of gratitude and perspective I
have because of what I went through, there isn't There
isn't a day where I look in the mirror at
the end of it and go, God, that was awful.
(12:12):
It is it is never it is never awful. It
will never be awful no matter what, because of the
life I've gotten to live. Yeah, run, I wanted to
ask you speaking of you know, one of the things
that we played the sound by a lot. You had
a famous locker room melt down with j Pose and
you you scream knock it off? What led? Were you
(12:34):
just having a terrible day that what led to that interaction? Um? Yeah,
it's incredibly embarrassing. Um um, maybe that maybe he'll take
that into consideration next time you guys want to You
said you run it a lot. Um. The day before
I played the worst game I've ever played in my
life at Kansas City. Completed one path, uh for four
(12:57):
yards through a couple of picks, bumbled three times was
I think seven times in a rainstorm. It was completely humiliated.
A cameraman was in the locker room after the game,
and it was back in the day when they had
those big, big batteries on the end of the camera,
and he swung around when I had stood up, and
it just smoked me in the eye. And I was
(13:18):
so angry, of course, by the way I played, and
so I just addressed this this cameraman down like made
him feel like an absolute peon for permitute pretty much
doing his job. And the local beat writer Um had
witnessed it all, and you know, I didn't I didn't
think much of it. I didn't apologize to the guy. UM.
I just kind of went about my business. And the
(13:39):
next morning, of course, it was in the in the newspaper,
um Jay Polser had written all about the incident. And
so after my gaggle with the reporters on Monday, I
I asked him to stick around afterwards, and you know,
like you know, like I always used to do back then,
just trying to intimidate people and sho him who was boss.
(14:01):
And I said, Hey, we're gonna have a relationship. You know,
I'd like some kind of privacy in the locker room.
Everything that he just he I think he saw an opportunity, uh,
and and kind of baited me with it, and I
took the bait, and I proceeded to kind of fortunately
get him into the chair. And from what you guys
saw is when a cameraman in the corner of the
(14:23):
room spun around and heard me standing over the top
of him trying to be like the big bad man.
UM pulled my man card Um and really it looked
like a petel and child just screaming at somebody who
was doing his job. And luckily for me, Um, I
didn't you know, physically harm him. And Junior Sales popped
(14:44):
in there and pulled me out through me in the shower,
turned the cold water on and and again was there
to protect me Um like like he did for me
for those pretty much the entire time. I was there
until the end where where he just like, I can't
do anything more for this guy. He just he's just
he's self sabotaged it so much. He really tried to help. Yeah,
(15:06):
and you know it was I don't we don't play
it anymore, right, but back in those days when you know,
we did disclosure, full disclosure, but uh, and I mean
you came up nine. Social media really kicked in in
the two thousands, around twenty nine. That's when that really
became a huge deal. How different, if at all, would
(15:27):
your career have been if you would add on top
of everything that happened. You've got a lot of negative
publicity because of the way you played, But then if
you add on top of it social media, how would
that have changed the dynamic? You know, I didn't get
a lot of negativity around how I played. The negativity
came for how I behaved. People can get passed. I
(15:47):
mean there was there were glimpses in time. We played
at Denver on t for three sum yards and three
touchdowns and just lit it up, and my athletic ability
was always there, So it was never really that it was.
It was how I behaved and how I acted, And
so definitely it would have been constantly berated on social media.
(16:08):
I cared so much about what other people thought um
post prison. I've worked with a therapist on an affirmation.
We we use it all the time. I say it
in the morning every morning. I've been saying it for
four consecutive years now, every morning in the mirror. What
other people think of me is none of my business.
I believe it now, I truly believe it. I can't
control people, places, or things. Ever. All I can control
(16:30):
is how I react, how I deal with the situation.
And and when you've come to that realization, there's a
ton of there's a ton of like radical acceptance with that,
and so it would have been very difficult. And now
I'm on social media a lot, but it's all positivity.
I don't let any negativity on it. It's all about
(16:51):
pushing the envelope to help people who are dealing with
substance abut some mental health issues and for me to
use it as a platform in mine, you know, in
my sporting brought asking career, which is which is blossomed,
which I never thought was something that was going to
be able to ever happen, you know, being a communications
major from college, not utilizing that when I got out
because um, the purpost thing I wanted to be was was,
(17:13):
you know, in a newsroom because I disliked the media
so much. Chronically, it's funny that I'm now in the
media and doing that for a living. So it's it's
interesting how things come full circle. Ryan, do you think
the National Football League does a good job of helping
talent deal with with mental health issues? Oh god, No,
they're awful. They don't they They don't care about about
(17:37):
the player. They care about how much money that player
can bring in. And usually when the player becomes a
former player, UM, that no longer is a viable option
for them. Even if you are a Hall of Famer,
you know. Um, they can build up that a little bit.
But I think that they are a huge propaganda machine
and they're really really good at it. Their multi billion
(18:00):
propaganda machine that promotes violence and says they care about people,
which they don't. Um, they disliked counting their money, and
so it took me a while to figure that out. Um.
The recent deaths of Vint and Jackson, our NFL brother
you know, alone in a hotel room at thirty eight
years old, that that was the final I think that
(18:23):
was just the final nail for me. And uh, I
was really upset about it. And luckily a bunch of people,
UM jump to action with me, and we've gotten the
business with a company that's associated with the Hall of Fame.
Because the Hall of Fame is kind of like Switzerland
between the NFL, p A and the NFL, they really
don't have a side there. They can be neutral and
(18:44):
truly helped the player, and a lot of us former
players can control that. So we've worked a deal with
the Hall of Fame and it's called the Hall of
Fame Behavioral Health Center. And Um, when something like that happens,
when the family reaches out to us and as Vincent
is locked in a hotel room, he won't talk to
anybody's drinking himself to death. Um, it's like the bat
(19:06):
line they call me. I get on a plane, I'm
in the Tampa area, I get to that hotel, I
knock on the door and I'm like, brother, I was there.
I'm with you. I know the way out. Just come
with me. Every life is so precious. We can't have
something like that happen again. We just we can't. In
the NFL, UH doesn't care one iota and everything you
(19:28):
see them say they do, it's just it's just it's
just a lie. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven
pm Pacific. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
So do you. I mean, I guess on that note
(19:49):
not to be cynical about this, but do you think
that the stances they've had against the Redskins changed the
name of the Washington football team and then with their
social justice arsues right now taking those stances or those
disingenuous Yeah, I believe so. I mean, I think it's
(20:09):
when the when the league's and predominantly um, people of color,
you better, you know, you better? At least they're good
at marketing. They're really good at marketing. So that's essentially
what this is. I mean, all of a sudden, they
just have this shift in this change. You know, that's
the biggest thing. Either they came to like an epiphany
(20:30):
and a realization. Maybe Roger Goodell finally did because he's
kind of flying in the face of where a lot
of the ownership believes in and he works for the owners.
So I was I was taken aback when I saw
it happen because we've seen how Colin Kaepernick has really
been black ball from the NFL because of his stance. Um.
But yeah, I mean it's really hard for me to
(20:50):
take anything they say at face value and seriously, just
because I've been fooled too many times by it, and
and you know the first time, you know, shame on
them that they blew you twice, shame his, shame on you.
It really is a shame on me if if I
keep believing it, but they're sot him convincing. Are you
Are you a fan of Kaepernick? Yeah, definitely. I was
(21:14):
a huge fan of him when he was coming out
of the vat. In fact, I had talked to Jim
Harbaugh about him a lot, and sure enough, you know,
he moved up and grabbed him there at the beginning
of the second round, and I thought that was a
wonderful fit. Um. I have a really unique perspective when
it comes to, you know, a law and order in
this country because I was an actual criminal right and um,
(21:34):
and the night they came and arrested me, I was
high out of my mind. I had committed a crime,
you know, and at no point did I ever fear
for my life, and I never have when it's come
to police. And that's that's like the epitome of white privilege.
And you have to have empathy around the idea of
like if you're a person of color in this country
(21:56):
and you get pulled over by the police or engaged
with the police at any time, like there's a real,
honest to god fear that you could die in that moment.
That's that's what I've that's what I've really looked at.
I haven't tried to look at incredible nuances to it that.
I just that's cut and dry. For me. I wasn't
in that moment fearful for my life. I didn't think
I was going to die from the police. I actually
(22:16):
thought they were gonna take care of me. They were
gonna put me in a car and take me to
a jail cell and I was going to be safe.
And Um, when a person of the caller in our
country is engaged with the police, they are fearful that
they are going to lose their life. And that's exactly
what Colin was trying to trying to exemplify with this protest.
It just it just took an unbelievable different spin when
(22:38):
people we wanted to look at it in a different
lights about you know, our military and patriotism and stuff,
when when it had nothing to do with that. So, yeah,
I'm a big fantist, But do you think though that
the message was just bad in the way that it
was presented to me, because you could have that stance
for obviously social justice and the racial issue and the
(22:59):
component with that against the police. But when you have anybody,
let alone a quarterback of a National Football League team
we're in socks with with pigs on him identifying a
police officers and Fidel Castro shirts like don't you don't
you think that that message out there also is seen
for the masses and can be misconstrued. Definitely, definitely disappointing.
(23:24):
You know, We're flawed human beings. I've messed up a ton.
I continue to mess up, you know. Um, I'm willing
to listen to him and accepted apology for doing it. Um,
his larger message is one that I can rally behind,
but I'm not. I don't are blinders to the fact
that those are those are things that actually exist, right, UM.
(23:47):
I have enough empathy to understand that. You know, you know,
no matter how um large of a pedestal we get
placed upon, we're still flawed human beings like everybody else,
and we messed up all the time. That's just I
think that's what makes me so much more relatable when
I travel around the country and speak. They they're in
the room and they're like, you know, we're just like
each other. You know, we screw up. We have principles
(24:09):
and values and and we don't live up to our
expectations and O those expectations a lot of the time.
And clearly those are a couple of instances that people are,
you know, a point to and understandable. I understand people
when they have those those points to make. And I
and my response to him, like to yours, it's like, yeah,
I understand it. It's disappointed. I've accepted as a his
(24:30):
acknowledgement of messing up and the larger message and what
he's trying to come across I think is more important.
And uh, and that's why I've I've been a supporter
of this. Yeah, And I think on that note to Ryan,
the one area that makes you unique, and I think
this just speaks for the mass, is whether you're an athlete,
a politician, a musician, a journalist, is that you're admitting,
(24:54):
and you have admitted, you've fucked up and you've done wrong,
and you're and you're not perfect. There are people that
will just hit the gas and they just continue to
drive right through a wall and not acknowledge and not
be at the heat part of it. It's a huge
part of it. Like you count you know what I
found that was really difficult, Like when I was playing,
(25:15):
I could not own up to my ship. I couldn't.
I don't know why. I thought it was weakness and
vulnerability and transparency, accountability and the most it costs you nothing,
It doesn't you know, it costs you nothing to to
just be honest and say, hey, this happened. I'm not perfect,
(25:37):
I want to be better. What am I just? What
am I supposed to do? Just call it? Quit, end
it all? Right now. I know a lot of you
might want me to do that, but I'm just not
built that way. I'm gonna get back up, you know.
I'm going to continue to trudge forward and try to
be the best possible version of myself I can, because
that's that's what I do, and I'm going to continue
to do it, plain and simple. Hey, Ryan, you know
(25:58):
I do the Overnight show, So we have an interesting
eclectic group of people listen to my my show, and uh,
you know, beyont mean a lot of people who are
up all night. They're fighting the demons of substance abuse
and whatnot. You've been through the battle. Uh. And if
someone happens to stumble upon this, You've talked about a
few things. But if you could sum it up in
(26:20):
a couple of sentences, what advice would you give a
person who's listening to this is Like, you know, I
kind of had some issues like Ryan, but I'm not
a former NFL player, So what advice would you give
that person? Well? Play and simple? If I could do this,
anybody can you know? That's the that's the that's the
honest scout true right in a complete public eye in
(26:41):
front of everybody, every time I messed up, you know,
Sports Center banner, you know, um complete joke. But all
this stuff like and I'm going to tell you that
was probably it was probably easier for me than it
is for you because you're doing it in the darkness
and no one may know, and you feel isolated. You
feel alone, you don't feel like anybody cares. Let me
(27:04):
tell you right now, I care. And if you want
to reach out to me, my my direct messages are
open on every social media platform. You wouldn't believe the
amount of messages from people since the pandemic started probably
at least ten thousand that we've answered and got people
in in help or just just people just need somebody
to listen to hear that you're struggling and that it's
(27:28):
gonna be okay. I know that you're not alone, and
asking for help is the strongest thing you can ever do.
I can attest to that. If I can do this,
anybody can. So, UM, you've got to surrender and access
the help, and uh, we're willing to help. That's great,
good advice. So you can reach out to the Ryan
I wanted to tell I wanted to ask you actually
(27:50):
because I was covering the Lakers when you were at
Washington State and it was right around the draft I
think it was. So I was at the forum and
I remember there was a little bit of buzz you
would come you were you were at a game, and
you were kind of I think, if I remember correctly,
you were in the in the locker room. Do you
do you recall that or my imagining things here? No,
(28:13):
it was, well, the first Laker game I ever went to.
We were at the Rose Bowl and so you were
in college. Okay, we were college. We're getting ready for
it was like a week before the Rose Bowl and
we were in l a and uh Dr bust and
his family invited h Charles Woodson and myself and we
could bring a fellow teammate and we all we all
(28:33):
went to the game and we were down there on courtside,
and I got to meet Jim Carey. I remember doing
that and the Laker girls and Dr bust And then
because of that once I got drafted by the San
Diego Chargers. Um I was up all the time as
a guest of Dr buston Is at the Form Club,
and I became close with Kobe and Kobe's assistant and
my assistant had gone to high school high school together,
(28:56):
so we became we became really close, you know. And
especially when they got tough for me and his career
kind of said take off. He was very empathetic and
tried to help. He would always send me I'm looking
at him right now in my office right now. I
got like his rookie year, when lass rookie year, his
first couple of years, when I had the Adidas deal on,
he had these K eight shoes. He would always give
(29:17):
me or send my brothers his pairs of shoes after
the game, and I got a I got a pair
of his shoes sitting right here I look at every
day in my office, and um, I'm missing Dearly. We
lost connection, of course because of how successful he became
and how um dysfunctional I did. But um, yeah, I
used to love being able to do that and be
(29:40):
Dr Buss was such a welcoming person, and you know,
he was kind of from a small town guy that
made it big in the big city and I used
to do that a lot. So definitely, Uh yeah, I
read heard me in the locker room. Yeah, because I
was there, and I remember I remember the night that
I recall and I guess it might have been the
Rose Bull thing. But you were like waiting for a
(30:02):
cab outside back before Uber was a thing in that
little tunnel at at the Forum. I so it was
Jerry Buss, a legendary figure in in l A sports
and in sports ownership. And uh he he liked to
have a good time, so you he were like you
buddies with him. How often would you talk to him?
And did you have actual like a friendship give you
(30:24):
tickets and stuff like that? Oh yeah, I mean, you know,
I'd call his assistant and you know, and say, I
wanted me and my boys wanted to come up, and
you know that's at the resident we'd eat, we sit
with him in the forum from and have dinner with them,
and then you'd have tickets either in his suite or UM.
He'd have ticket down before for me, um my boys.
I mean it was. I mean, you're two years old
(30:48):
Montana boy living this life. It's it was. It was
really really cool and you know you're watching your heroes
um play play basketball and it was pretty pretty pretty
fun deal. Ryan, did you get a chance to I mean,
because obviously the commute from San Diego to Los Angeles
is not long, um, but Dr Buss was known to
(31:08):
to go down to del mar Um quite a bit.
So did you ever get a chance to play poker
with Dr Buss? No? I never played poker with him.
I was not I've never been a good poker player
and I don't really like it, um, but I did, Uh.
I did invite him one time down to UM. I
(31:29):
was del mar Um horse racing member and so um
the turf club there. I had him down one time
where we uh where we watched the horse races and
got to be a part of all that and stuff
like that. So I think I was the last time
I probably saw him, to be honest with you. Now,
you after you left the Charges, you bashed around a
(31:51):
little bit. You played a few games with the Cowboys.
Did you have much interaction with Jerry Jones when you
were in Dallas? Yeah, I'm unbelievable to play for him. Uh.
I was a Steelers fan growing up, so I wasn't
really keen on being a Dallas Cowboy. But there's something
about walking out of that stating with a star on
your helmet. Um. And if you play for him, you're
(32:11):
his guy regardless. I mean you are. He's as loyal
as they come if you are a Dallas Cowboy. I remember, Um,
you know when when when I needed to get back
to Montana in the off season to visit some family
because my grandfather had passed away recently. Um, he he
loaned me his jet, let me take his jet to
(32:31):
Montana to be with my family and stuff like that.
I mean, so that's that's the kind of guy that
he that he is. UM. I guarantee you I can
call him up today if if I was in a
in need and and needed needed some some guidance, some help. Um.
You know, once you're a cowboy, your cowboy forever. Pretty cool.
And now I want to circle back to the draft.
(32:52):
So next next week is the big the big event
here the draft. Outside of Trevor Lawrence as a former
court back, Ryan, when you look at the other quarterments,
there's a bunch of cubis. We could see four or
five cubes drafted like rat a tat tat. Right at
the beginning of the draft, which of the other guys
really stands out that you think is going to be
the guy? Well, my list consists of Trevor Lawrence, one,
(33:17):
Justin Fields two Um, and then there's a Tassa. You know,
if you're looking for the highest ceiling I'd probably say
Trey Lance is probably one of the highest ceiling. Um.
You know, Zack Wilson and Mac Jones very capable, accurate,
strong arms. UM. David's Mills for me is a guy
that that people have slept on. I would have hoped
(33:39):
for him to come back another year, having only started
twelve games in his college career, but he's got first
round talent and it wouldn't surprise me if the team
snuck up into the late first round like they did
with Lamar Jackson a few years back to get a
get a quarterback in the first round so they get
that fifth year option on them. So um, I think
everything everything falls to Atlanta at at four. What they
(34:02):
do with their pick will lay the dominoes for the
rest of the night, because if they pass on a
quarterback and um and move back and the team jumps
up there to take that fourth quarterback, there's gonna be
you know, probably five or six other teams that are
clamoring to jump up with Cincinnati or Miami to get
(34:23):
that fifth quarterback. Because but if they decide to stay
foot draft Kyle Pitt or Jamaar Chase or um or
Devonte Smith or or Micah Parson's defense on the on
the defensive side of the football, uh, those other two
quarterbacks can drop back always because for the next few picks,
no one really needs the quarterback. I don't know what
(34:44):
Detrait exactly is going to do, but I don't I don't.
I think I think people would really poo poo the
idea that they took a quarterback after spending all that
money on Jared Jaw over the next two years. Ryan
not to geek out a little bit, but I have
to do this with the college level because you remember
what Manning do an Indy when he had three and
four wide receivers and what he did in Denver. And
I bring that because of Mac Jones. I mean, he's
(35:06):
a he was a great player at Alabama, but he
had Jalen Waddle, he had Davonte Smith and then he
had Nag Harris in the backfield and John Matchi in
the slot. So is that more of what Sarkeesian and
Sabman did or was that on him? And do you
think that even translates the national football he because in
Alabama quarterbacks have not panned out well obviously in recent years. Yeah,
(35:33):
I think he's I think he's I think he's remarkable.
I think he made the Sarkeesian this last year because
Steve kind of looked like he knew what he was
doing with Ta and Jalen, but when push came to
shot with a big game moment, uh, he looked lost
in terms of how he went about his business, and
Mac Jones made him look like a superstar. Mac Jones
got him the Texas Longhorns head coaching job. Um Joe, gurl,
(35:58):
what was it? Who was Joe Burrow throwing to Edwards Hilaire,
UH with a bunch of bums out there. No, there's
Jamar Jason, justin Jefferson, there's ballers, right, I mean, so,
I mean, if you're gonna it's gonna knock Mac for it,
you've gotta not Burrow for it too. And and I
don't believe that to be the case at all. Howcome
to UH and Jalen couldn't win a national championship um
(36:20):
start to finish? You know what if the third guy
in line was actually the best of the three. And
so therefore I'm every I'm a huge, huge fan of
Mac Jones. If he goes the third to San Francisco,
I'll be I'll be, I'll be very very happy for him.
I have no idea what San Francisco is going to do.
John Beck, who is a quarterback guru and coach really
(36:42):
close to Kyle Shanahan. Apparently Kyle had shuttled him off
to to UH North Dakota to work with Trey before
this last workout. So that makes me leave lean a
little bit towards the body. Irons taking a leap um
for the North Dakota state product at three we'll see,
we'll find out. I think any of the three guys
(37:03):
at Landed Standrancisco are gonna have great careers, all right,
and right, you'll actually be in for our old, our
former colleague, Rich eisen Right, You're gonna be hosting for
him on the NFL Draft week, Is that correct? Yeah?
So Rich is in the gonna be in Cleveland hosting
UH NFL Draft stuff for NFL Network. Because of COVID,
his his daily UH television and radio show. UM couldn't
(37:28):
travel because of COVID, and so you know, you know,
by the grace of God, he he has been a
huge supporter of mine and gaving me opportunity after opportunity,
and sure enough two of the biggest platforms day of
the Draft or the day after the first round of
the Draft. I'm gonna be hosting the Big Fellas UH
TV and radio show both days. So excited about that.
(37:49):
It gonna be a ton of talk about UM. Always
have a blast with those guys on that show. UH
can't write. It's gonna be a great week. Awesome, very cool.
Thank you for your time, Ryan continued to Briany, good
luck and we'll talk to you down line. Thank you
you Betbellots take it easy, yeah, thanks great. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays
(38:09):
at two am eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be sure to
catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays at
two am eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app
Bob. If you thought more hours a day, minutes a
week was enough, I think again. He's the last remnants
of the old Republic, the sole fashion of fairness. He
treats crack heads in the ghetto cutter the same as
the rich pill poppers in the penthouse, to clearinghouse of
hot takes, break free for something special. Fifth Hour with
(00:23):
Ben Maller starts right now in the air everywhere. We
are back at it yet again. Another weekend is upon us,
and we are back at it because we do the
radio show. I do the radio show five nights a week,
as you know, and then we have the spinoff here.
(00:44):
We have a Friday, Saturday and Sunday show. So two
shows on Friday, got two shows kind of on Sunday
in to Monday. And we do thank you for supporting
the podcast, even when there are issues. More on that
coming up. We'll talk about that on the Saturday podcast.
But today is an interview podcast, a conversation, a chat
(01:06):
with someone who we know, someone who we like, someone
that we're curious to talk to. And so, by the way,
Gascon is back this week. David Guescon is back. He's
a he's fun lay in don't get used to it.
This could be his final weekend on a podcast. We
(01:27):
can hope that he goes somewhere else, but he's here
this weekend, booking great A guests yet again, and contend
to shine like like a diamond. That's what I do. Yes,
pat yourself on the back a little more. I actually
a little more pretentious. Yes. Uh. Anyway, this week in
the NFL Draft coming up here just a few days away.
(01:48):
A chance to catch up with a man who is
synonymous with the NFL draft. A number two pick of
the old San Diego Charger show me your lightning bolt
in it was neck and neck. It was belly to
belly between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning. Colts had the
(02:10):
number one pick, the Chargers had the number two pick.
We know how it turned out. If you somehow I forgotten.
It didn't turn out well for Ryan Leaf, one of
the historic NFL Draft bus He only played twenty five
games in the NFL. He said some fights with demons
over the years, but he has continued to counter punch,
and you gotta respect that that Ryan Lee has been
(02:32):
knocked down, he's done time in jail, and he's continued
to fight back. And a lot to a lot to
talk to Ryan Leaf about which we are excited about.
So let's get right into it right now. We welcome
in a now former NFL player for many many years
played with the Chargers and the Cowboys and had a
cup of coffee and training camping off season with some
(02:54):
other teams. But let's bring in Ryan Leaf. We'll start
with the NFL draft. Ryan, We thank you for spend
some time with us year. Put let's start at the
very top. Trevor Lawrence, the number one pick, he presumptive
number one picked by Jacksonville. Is he as good as advertised? Yes?
He is every He's everything in a bag of ships,
I'll give you that. Probably the most complete player UH
(03:18):
coming out of college since Andrew Luck would have been
the number one overall pick after he upset Alabama or
more or less destroyed Alabama. To talk about law in
the National Championship after his freshman year um and to
not move a spot after two years um, which everybody was.
The expectations were so high the only way, only where
(03:40):
only place you could go is is backwards. He didn't.
He is still the UH overwhelmingly presumptive number one overall pick.
And best player in this year's draft. So so Ryan
he's going. It looks like he's going to Jacksonville unless
something crazy happens. Is that a trip to the googlog?
If you William Jacksonville is not actually been a wonderful
(04:01):
outpost in the NFL. I do you put any stock
into that. Let if you get drafted by a team
that's not, you know, not that great, that you are doomed. Well,
I wouldn't. I wouldn't say doomed because Trevor is a
transformational player. Like you could walk into an environment and
he changes the environment. You know, there are guys that
(04:21):
are just guys that are great quarterbacks, but they just
they can't change the environment around them, and it kind
of happens the other way. He's capable of doing that. Unfortunately,
a lot of times when these top draft picks, Uh,
you know, Trevor reminds me a ton of Carson Carson Palmer.
He goes to Cincinnati, there's a couple of great years
where they get get into the playoffs. Um, but that's
(04:42):
as far as they go. You know, you you just
kind of lost, kind of forgotten, never been a Hall
of Famer around of Jacksonville. Tony Baselli could change that
maybe down the line here someday, but um, it's gonna
be really, really difficult. And unfortunately for the likes of
Joe Burrow and Trevor Lawrence, the best quarterbacks each draft
(05:03):
are going to the worst possible teams, and systemically that means,
you know, we probably won't hear from them in terms
of a ton of success at the NFL level. So
so right, I saw a story that I wanted to
ask your opinion on it. There was an a f
C coach they didn't name, of course, who said that
Joe Burrow is better than Trevor Lawrence, that they would
(05:25):
have taken Burrow a hundred times out of a hundred
in the draft if they had both been in the
same draft. You buy that that takers that hyperbole? Well,
I mean their head to head matchup was just an
absolute dismantling. You know, I know it's not, you know,
quarterback versus quarterback, but I mean that's what you're going
off of. Right. Uh, what Joe Burrow did in that
(05:46):
one season in l s U is remarkable. It's it's
absolutely remarkable, and I really think he's gonna change the
environment in Cincinnati. I just you know, um, that's a
that's a coin top, that's that's the Peyton Manning Ryan
leaf right there. If that those two are in the
same draft, I would argue that was exactly the same
in ninety eight, where no one knew who was going
to go one and who was going to go to two.
(06:07):
That I think there'll be a lot of opinions on
both sides of that coin if that had been the
case last year. Yeah, I actually I want to talk
about it. We'll get back to the draft. But back
when you were you and Peyton Manning were neck and
neck for the number one pick. Did you did you
think you were going to go to the Colts? Did
they talked to you like they were gonna draft you?
I mean everyone in the media said it was gonna
(06:28):
be a you know, a last minute decision. How close
do you think he came to being drafted by the
Colts instead of the Chargers. Well, I was hosting Rich
Eyes and the other day and when he was off
and I had Jim mursay on, I had the owner
of the Indianapolis Colts on the show, and I asked
him that specific question, like how close was it, and
he said, well, you know, it was pretty much split
(06:48):
fifty fifty in our in our war room with the scouts,
Bill Polly and who of course the general manager at
the time, who was the final word. He really was
leaning towards Peyton um And and Jim R. Say that
the owner was leaning towards me. And he had asked
a really close confidanta his in the NFL who came
to him a couple of nights before the draft, and
(07:09):
guy he trusted a lot, uh, said to him and said, Jim,
you gotta take that least kit. And luckily for the
Colts and for Jim and for everybody involved, Uh, they didn't.
He he didn't listen to his longtime NFL confidant, and
he and they went with Peyton and that was was
the best best choice they could have made. But if
(07:30):
you if you had gone to Indie like well you,
I mean you obviously had some you know, some some issues.
You've admitted that you you're still battling the stuff occasionally.
But if you had gone to it, he wouldn't have
been different. I mean, you don't know in a parallel dimensions,
if you go to the Colts, is there a different outcome.
You know, I might have been able to keep my
character defects under wrapped a little while longer because they
(07:51):
were there was some more they would have been more
talent around me. But ultimately, you know, I was the problem.
So how you know Peyton through the most touch of
interceptions ever, uh in a season for a rookie, and
uh the team went three and thirteen. I don't know
if I could have dealt with that failure. Um, you know,
I don't know if I could have you know, gotten
(08:13):
through that. I had a really hard time dealing with
failure in a positive way, where Peyton saw it as
an opportunity to do it better the next time and
clearly was the right choice. Um, there's a saying I
use all the time. No matter where you go, there
you are, and and no matter where I went, there
I would have been. And I was definitely the problem.
So I just I just assumed that no matter where
(08:35):
I would have gone or where I would have been drafted, Um,
if it was that high, you know how it went
in the sixth round and no one knew who the
hell I was, There might have been an easier way
to work my way up. But when you're drafted that high. Um,
it's it really wouldn't have mattered where I went. I
was going to Uh, I was going to implode no
matter what. Ryan, What gave you that sense that that
(08:56):
there was going to be an implosure? Like did you
ever get that feeling when you're at Washington State? Never?
Never never got that. No, it was gonna be easy.
I was gonna walk on the football field and do
what I've always done my whole life. It shocked me that, uh,
that the scrutiny came, that the criticism came, that the
fan hatred came, all of this stuff. It was utterly
(09:18):
shocking to me such in a way that I was, Um,
I wasn't shock, you know. And no way in the
world did I see something like that coming down the
coming down the pipe. I don't. I mean, no one did,
clearly because I had. It was one of the highest
graded players ever going into a draft, Payton Manning and
I think there were eight point five in terms of grades,
(09:39):
and you just you just don't see that. I think
Andrew Luck at an eight point eight or something like
that when he came out, and that was the highest
we've ever seen. The relationships that you had when you
were in the National Football League players and coaches and
management alike. What was the biggest one that you regretted
the most and just in terms of how things unfolded
and dissipated. Well, well, you know, just Junior say I
(10:02):
and Rodney Harrison two real leaders on that on that defense.
When I when I came into the league, and um,
I just did not listen or or was willing for
like just glom onto them and asked them how they've
done it and then followed their advice verbatim. That's the best.
That's the advice I give to guys coming into the league,
(10:24):
no matter how highly drafted they are, because it all
starts over. You go into that locker room, you find
a guy that's played ten, twelve years, who's been a
veteran in this league, because that is the odds of
you playing eight odds of you playing at least eight
years is crazy. I think it's like a thousand players
in the history of the NFL to have played eight
seasons in the NFL. You go find those guys, you
(10:45):
look them in the eye, you ask them how they
did it, and when they tell you, you follow their
You follow their guidance verbatim. Any guys that you follow
now verbatim? Oh yeah, plenty. I have a few mentors.
I gotta my sponsors. Thirty two years sober, I follow
I mean every everything he said, I follow him. You
(11:06):
walk into you walk into one of those meeting rooms.
You find a guy that has what you want, you
go ask him how he got it, and then you
follow him and you get the life of your dreams.
And that's exactly where I'm at right now. I mean,
the days, obviously are are not always the highest of highs.
How do you how do you combat the loads of
the lows? You know, they just they don't exist anymore.
(11:28):
I mean, because you know, I was not on the
golf course the other day and I heard a guy
just so upset and screaming about how long the round
was taking. And I looked at him and I said,
I said, man, it could be worse. And he's like,
I don't know how, and I go, you could be
in prison and uh. And he looked at me like
in complete and utter shock, and I go, I go,
(11:51):
so hey, it could be a lot worse, buddy, all right,
let's just enjoy it. So I don't I don't take
anything for granted anymore. Life is life. Life is hard.
But I mean the amount of gratitude and perspective I
have because of what I went through, there isn't There
isn't a day where I look in the mirror at
the end of it and go, God, that was awful.
(12:12):
It is it is never it is never awful. It
will never be awful no matter what, because of the
life I've gotten to live. Yeah, run, I wanted to
ask you speaking of you know, one of the things
that we played the sound by a lot. You had
a famous locker room melt down with j Pose and
you you scream knock it off? What led? Were you
(12:34):
just having a terrible day that what led to that interaction? Um? Yeah,
it's incredibly embarrassing. Um um, maybe that maybe he'll take
that into consideration next time you guys want to You
said you run it a lot. Um. The day before
I played the worst game I've ever played in my
life at Kansas City. Completed one path, uh for four
(12:57):
yards through a couple of picks, bumbled three times was
I think seven times in a rainstorm. It was completely humiliated.
A cameraman was in the locker room after the game,
and it was back in the day when they had
those big, big batteries on the end of the camera,
and he swung around when I had stood up, and
it just smoked me in the eye. And I was
(13:18):
so angry, of course, by the way I played, and
so I just addressed this this cameraman down like made
him feel like an absolute peon for permitute pretty much
doing his job. And the local beat writer Um had
witnessed it all, and you know, I didn't I didn't
think much of it. I didn't apologize to the guy. UM.
I just kind of went about my business. And the
(13:39):
next morning, of course, it was in the in the newspaper,
um Jay Polser had written all about the incident. And
so after my gaggle with the reporters on Monday, I
I asked him to stick around afterwards, and you know,
like you know, like I always used to do back then,
just trying to intimidate people and sho him who was boss.
(14:01):
And I said, Hey, we're gonna have a relationship. You know,
I'd like some kind of privacy in the locker room.
Everything that he just he I think he saw an opportunity, uh,
and and kind of baited me with it, and I
took the bait, and I proceeded to kind of fortunately
get him into the chair. And from what you guys
saw is when a cameraman in the corner of the
(14:23):
room spun around and heard me standing over the top
of him trying to be like the big bad man.
UM pulled my man card Um and really it looked
like a petel and child just screaming at somebody who
was doing his job. And luckily for me, Um, I
didn't you know, physically harm him. And Junior Sales popped
(14:44):
in there and pulled me out through me in the shower,
turned the cold water on and and again was there
to protect me Um like like he did for me
for those pretty much the entire time. I was there
until the end where where he just like, I can't
do anything more for this guy. He just he's just
he's self sabotaged it so much. He really tried to help. Yeah,
(15:06):
and you know it was I don't we don't play
it anymore, right, but back in those days when you know,
we did disclosure, full disclosure, but uh, and I mean
you came up nine. Social media really kicked in in
the two thousands, around twenty nine. That's when that really
became a huge deal. How different, if at all, would
(15:27):
your career have been if you would add on top
of everything that happened. You've got a lot of negative
publicity because of the way you played, But then if
you add on top of it social media, how would
that have changed the dynamic? You know, I didn't get
a lot of negativity around how I played. The negativity
came for how I behaved. People can get passed. I
(15:47):
mean there was there were glimpses in time. We played
at Denver on t for three sum yards and three
touchdowns and just lit it up, and my athletic ability
was always there, So it was never really that it was.
It was how I behaved and how I acted, And
so definitely it would have been constantly berated on social media.
(16:08):
I cared so much about what other people thought um
post prison. I've worked with a therapist on an affirmation.
We we use it all the time. I say it
in the morning every morning. I've been saying it for
four consecutive years now, every morning in the mirror. What
other people think of me is none of my business.
I believe it now, I truly believe it. I can't
control people, places, or things. Ever. All I can control
(16:30):
is how I react, how I deal with the situation.
And and when you've come to that realization, there's a
ton of there's a ton of like radical acceptance with that,
and so it would have been very difficult. And now
I'm on social media a lot, but it's all positivity.
I don't let any negativity on it. It's all about
(16:51):
pushing the envelope to help people who are dealing with
substance abut some mental health issues and for me to
use it as a platform in mine, you know, in
my sporting brought asking career, which is which is blossomed,
which I never thought was something that was going to
be able to ever happen, you know, being a communications
major from college, not utilizing that when I got out
because um, the purpost thing I wanted to be was was,
(17:13):
you know, in a newsroom because I disliked the media
so much. Chronically, it's funny that I'm now in the
media and doing that for a living. So it's it's
interesting how things come full circle. Ryan, do you think
the National Football League does a good job of helping
talent deal with with mental health issues? Oh god, No,
they're awful. They don't they They don't care about about
(17:37):
the player. They care about how much money that player
can bring in. And usually when the player becomes a
former player, UM, that no longer is a viable option
for them. Even if you are a Hall of Famer,
you know. Um, they can build up that a little bit.
But I think that they are a huge propaganda machine
and they're really really good at it. Their multi billion
(18:00):
propaganda machine that promotes violence and says they care about people,
which they don't. Um, they disliked counting their money, and
so it took me a while to figure that out. Um.
The recent deaths of Vint and Jackson, our NFL brother
you know, alone in a hotel room at thirty eight
years old, that that was the final I think that
(18:23):
was just the final nail for me. And uh, I
was really upset about it. And luckily a bunch of people,
UM jump to action with me, and we've gotten the
business with a company that's associated with the Hall of Fame.
Because the Hall of Fame is kind of like Switzerland
between the NFL, p A and the NFL, they really
don't have a side there. They can be neutral and
(18:44):
truly helped the player, and a lot of us former
players can control that. So we've worked a deal with
the Hall of Fame and it's called the Hall of
Fame Behavioral Health Center. And Um, when something like that happens,
when the family reaches out to us and as Vincent
is locked in a hotel room, he won't talk to
anybody's drinking himself to death. Um, it's like the bat
(19:06):
line they call me. I get on a plane, I'm
in the Tampa area, I get to that hotel, I
knock on the door and I'm like, brother, I was there.
I'm with you. I know the way out. Just come
with me. Every life is so precious. We can't have
something like that happen again. We just we can't. In
the NFL, UH doesn't care one iota and everything you
(19:28):
see them say they do, it's just it's just it's
just a lie. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven
pm Pacific. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
So do you. I mean, I guess on that note
(19:49):
not to be cynical about this, but do you think
that the stances they've had against the Redskins changed the
name of the Washington football team and then with their
social justice arsues right now taking those stances or those
disingenuous Yeah, I believe so. I mean, I think it's
(20:09):
when the when the league's and predominantly um, people of color,
you better, you know, you better? At least they're good
at marketing. They're really good at marketing. So that's essentially
what this is. I mean, all of a sudden, they
just have this shift in this change. You know, that's
the biggest thing. Either they came to like an epiphany
(20:30):
and a realization. Maybe Roger Goodell finally did because he's
kind of flying in the face of where a lot
of the ownership believes in and he works for the owners.
So I was I was taken aback when I saw
it happen because we've seen how Colin Kaepernick has really
been black ball from the NFL because of his stance. Um.
But yeah, I mean it's really hard for me to
(20:50):
take anything they say at face value and seriously, just
because I've been fooled too many times by it, and
and you know the first time, you know, shame on
them that they blew you twice, shame his, shame on you.
It really is a shame on me if if I
keep believing it, but they're sot him convincing. Are you
Are you a fan of Kaepernick? Yeah, definitely. I was
(21:14):
a huge fan of him when he was coming out
of the vat. In fact, I had talked to Jim
Harbaugh about him a lot, and sure enough, you know,
he moved up and grabbed him there at the beginning
of the second round, and I thought that was a
wonderful fit. Um. I have a really unique perspective when
it comes to, you know, a law and order in
this country because I was an actual criminal right and um,
(21:34):
and the night they came and arrested me, I was
high out of my mind. I had committed a crime,
you know, and at no point did I ever fear
for my life, and I never have when it's come
to police. And that's that's like the epitome of white privilege.
And you have to have empathy around the idea of
like if you're a person of color in this country
(21:56):
and you get pulled over by the police or engaged
with the police at any time, like there's a real,
honest to god fear that you could die in that moment.
That's that's what I've that's what I've really looked at.
I haven't tried to look at incredible nuances to it that.
I just that's cut and dry. For me. I wasn't
in that moment fearful for my life. I didn't think
I was going to die from the police. I actually
(22:16):
thought they were gonna take care of me. They were
gonna put me in a car and take me to
a jail cell and I was going to be safe.
And Um, when a person of the caller in our
country is engaged with the police, they are fearful that
they are going to lose their life. And that's exactly
what Colin was trying to trying to exemplify with this protest.
It just it just took an unbelievable different spin when
(22:38):
people we wanted to look at it in a different
lights about you know, our military and patriotism and stuff,
when when it had nothing to do with that. So, yeah,
I'm a big fantist, But do you think though that
the message was just bad in the way that it
was presented to me, because you could have that stance
for obviously social justice and the racial issue and the
(22:59):
component with that against the police. But when you have anybody,
let alone a quarterback of a National Football League team
we're in socks with with pigs on him identifying a
police officers and Fidel Castro shirts like don't you don't
you think that that message out there also is seen
for the masses and can be misconstrued. Definitely, definitely disappointing.
(23:24):
You know, We're flawed human beings. I've messed up a ton.
I continue to mess up, you know. Um, I'm willing
to listen to him and accepted apology for doing it. Um,
his larger message is one that I can rally behind,
but I'm not. I don't are blinders to the fact
that those are those are things that actually exist, right, UM.
(23:47):
I have enough empathy to understand that. You know, you know,
no matter how um large of a pedestal we get
placed upon, we're still flawed human beings like everybody else,
and we messed up all the time. That's just I
think that's what makes me so much more relatable when
I travel around the country and speak. They they're in
the room and they're like, you know, we're just like
each other. You know, we screw up. We have principles
(24:09):
and values and and we don't live up to our
expectations and O those expectations a lot of the time.
And clearly those are a couple of instances that people are,
you know, a point to and understandable. I understand people
when they have those those points to make. And I
and my response to him, like to yours, it's like, yeah,
I understand it. It's disappointed. I've accepted as a his
(24:30):
acknowledgement of messing up and the larger message and what
he's trying to come across I think is more important.
And uh, and that's why I've I've been a supporter
of this. Yeah, And I think on that note to Ryan,
the one area that makes you unique, and I think
this just speaks for the mass, is whether you're an athlete,
a politician, a musician, a journalist, is that you're admitting,
(24:54):
and you have admitted, you've fucked up and you've done wrong,
and you're and you're not perfect. There are people that
will just hit the gas and they just continue to
drive right through a wall and not acknowledge and not
be at the heat part of it. It's a huge
part of it. Like you count you know what I
found that was really difficult, Like when I was playing,
(25:15):
I could not own up to my ship. I couldn't.
I don't know why. I thought it was weakness and
vulnerability and transparency, accountability and the most it costs you nothing,
It doesn't you know, it costs you nothing to to
just be honest and say, hey, this happened. I'm not perfect,
(25:37):
I want to be better. What am I just? What
am I supposed to do? Just call it? Quit, end
it all? Right now. I know a lot of you
might want me to do that, but I'm just not
built that way. I'm gonna get back up, you know.
I'm going to continue to trudge forward and try to
be the best possible version of myself I can, because
that's that's what I do, and I'm going to continue
to do it, plain and simple. Hey, Ryan, you know
(25:58):
I do the Overnight show, So we have an interesting
eclectic group of people listen to my my show, and uh,
you know, beyont mean a lot of people who are
up all night. They're fighting the demons of substance abuse
and whatnot. You've been through the battle. Uh. And if
someone happens to stumble upon this, You've talked about a
few things. But if you could sum it up in
(26:20):
a couple of sentences, what advice would you give a
person who's listening to this is Like, you know, I
kind of had some issues like Ryan, but I'm not
a former NFL player, So what advice would you give
that person? Well? Play and simple? If I could do this,
anybody can you know? That's the that's the that's the
honest scout true right in a complete public eye in
(26:41):
front of everybody, every time I messed up, you know,
Sports Center banner, you know, um complete joke. But all
this stuff like and I'm going to tell you that
was probably it was probably easier for me than it
is for you because you're doing it in the darkness
and no one may know, and you feel isolated. You
feel alone, you don't feel like anybody cares. Let me
(27:04):
tell you right now, I care. And if you want
to reach out to me, my my direct messages are
open on every social media platform. You wouldn't believe the
amount of messages from people since the pandemic started probably
at least ten thousand that we've answered and got people
in in help or just just people just need somebody
to listen to hear that you're struggling and that it's
(27:28):
gonna be okay. I know that you're not alone, and
asking for help is the strongest thing you can ever do.
I can attest to that. If I can do this,
anybody can. So, UM, you've got to surrender and access
the help, and uh, we're willing to help. That's great,
good advice. So you can reach out to the Ryan
I wanted to tell I wanted to ask you actually
(27:50):
because I was covering the Lakers when you were at
Washington State and it was right around the draft I
think it was. So I was at the forum and
I remember there was a little bit of buzz you
would come you were you were at a game, and
you were kind of I think, if I remember correctly,
you were in the in the locker room. Do you
do you recall that or my imagining things here? No,
(28:13):
it was, well, the first Laker game I ever went to.
We were at the Rose Bowl and so you were
in college. Okay, we were college. We're getting ready for
it was like a week before the Rose Bowl and
we were in l a and uh Dr bust and
his family invited h Charles Woodson and myself and we
could bring a fellow teammate and we all we all
(28:33):
went to the game and we were down there on courtside,
and I got to meet Jim Carey. I remember doing
that and the Laker girls and Dr bust And then
because of that once I got drafted by the San
Diego Chargers. Um I was up all the time as
a guest of Dr buston Is at the Form Club,
and I became close with Kobe and Kobe's assistant and
my assistant had gone to high school high school together,
(28:56):
so we became we became really close, you know. And
especially when they got tough for me and his career
kind of said take off. He was very empathetic and
tried to help. He would always send me I'm looking
at him right now in my office right now. I
got like his rookie year, when lass rookie year, his
first couple of years, when I had the Adidas deal on,
he had these K eight shoes. He would always give
(29:17):
me or send my brothers his pairs of shoes after
the game, and I got a I got a pair
of his shoes sitting right here I look at every
day in my office, and um, I'm missing Dearly. We
lost connection, of course because of how successful he became
and how um dysfunctional I did. But um, yeah, I
used to love being able to do that and be
(29:40):
Dr Buss was such a welcoming person, and you know,
he was kind of from a small town guy that
made it big in the big city and I used
to do that a lot. So definitely, Uh yeah, I
read heard me in the locker room. Yeah, because I
was there, and I remember I remember the night that
I recall and I guess it might have been the
Rose Bull thing. But you were like waiting for a
(30:02):
cab outside back before Uber was a thing in that
little tunnel at at the Forum. I so it was
Jerry Buss, a legendary figure in in l A sports
and in sports ownership. And uh he he liked to
have a good time, so you he were like you
buddies with him. How often would you talk to him?
And did you have actual like a friendship give you
(30:24):
tickets and stuff like that? Oh yeah, I mean, you know,
I'd call his assistant and you know, and say, I
wanted me and my boys wanted to come up, and
you know that's at the resident we'd eat, we sit
with him in the forum from and have dinner with them,
and then you'd have tickets either in his suite or UM.
He'd have ticket down before for me, um my boys.
I mean it was. I mean, you're two years old
(30:48):
Montana boy living this life. It's it was. It was
really really cool and you know you're watching your heroes
um play play basketball and it was pretty pretty pretty
fun deal. Ryan, did you get a chance to I mean,
because obviously the commute from San Diego to Los Angeles
is not long, um, but Dr Buss was known to
(31:08):
to go down to del mar Um quite a bit.
So did you ever get a chance to play poker
with Dr Buss? No? I never played poker with him.
I was not I've never been a good poker player
and I don't really like it, um, but I did, Uh.
I did invite him one time down to UM. I
(31:29):
was del mar Um horse racing member and so um
the turf club there. I had him down one time
where we uh where we watched the horse races and
got to be a part of all that and stuff
like that. So I think I was the last time
I probably saw him, to be honest with you. Now,
you after you left the Charges, you bashed around a
(31:51):
little bit. You played a few games with the Cowboys.
Did you have much interaction with Jerry Jones when you
were in Dallas? Yeah, I'm unbelievable to play for him. Uh.
I was a Steelers fan growing up, so I wasn't
really keen on being a Dallas Cowboy. But there's something
about walking out of that stating with a star on
your helmet. Um. And if you play for him, you're
(32:11):
his guy regardless. I mean you are. He's as loyal
as they come if you are a Dallas Cowboy. I remember, Um,
you know when when when I needed to get back
to Montana in the off season to visit some family
because my grandfather had passed away recently. Um, he he
loaned me his jet, let me take his jet to
(32:31):
Montana to be with my family and stuff like that.
I mean, so that's that's the kind of guy that
he that he is. UM. I guarantee you I can
call him up today if if I was in a
in need and and needed needed some some guidance, some help. Um.
You know, once you're a cowboy, your cowboy forever. Pretty cool.
And now I want to circle back to the draft.
(32:52):
So next next week is the big the big event
here the draft. Outside of Trevor Lawrence as a former
court back, Ryan, when you look at the other quarterments,
there's a bunch of cubis. We could see four or
five cubes drafted like rat a tat tat. Right at
the beginning of the draft, which of the other guys
really stands out that you think is going to be
the guy? Well, my list consists of Trevor Lawrence, one,
(33:17):
Justin Fields two Um, and then there's a Tassa. You know,
if you're looking for the highest ceiling I'd probably say
Trey Lance is probably one of the highest ceiling. Um.
You know, Zack Wilson and Mac Jones very capable, accurate,
strong arms. UM. David's Mills for me is a guy
that that people have slept on. I would have hoped
(33:39):
for him to come back another year, having only started
twelve games in his college career, but he's got first
round talent and it wouldn't surprise me if the team
snuck up into the late first round like they did
with Lamar Jackson a few years back to get a
get a quarterback in the first round so they get
that fifth year option on them. So um, I think
everything everything falls to Atlanta at at four. What they
(34:02):
do with their pick will lay the dominoes for the
rest of the night, because if they pass on a
quarterback and um and move back and the team jumps
up there to take that fourth quarterback, there's gonna be
you know, probably five or six other teams that are
clamoring to jump up with Cincinnati or Miami to get
(34:23):
that fifth quarterback. Because but if they decide to stay
foot draft Kyle Pitt or Jamaar Chase or um or
Devonte Smith or or Micah Parson's defense on the on
the defensive side of the football, uh, those other two
quarterbacks can drop back always because for the next few picks,
no one really needs the quarterback. I don't know what
(34:44):
Detrait exactly is going to do, but I don't I don't.
I think I think people would really poo poo the
idea that they took a quarterback after spending all that
money on Jared Jaw over the next two years. Ryan
not to geek out a little bit, but I have
to do this with the college level because you remember
what Manning do an Indy when he had three and
four wide receivers and what he did in Denver. And
I bring that because of Mac Jones. I mean, he's
(35:06):
a he was a great player at Alabama, but he
had Jalen Waddle, he had Davonte Smith and then he
had Nag Harris in the backfield and John Matchi in
the slot. So is that more of what Sarkeesian and
Sabman did or was that on him? And do you
think that even translates the national football he because in
Alabama quarterbacks have not panned out well obviously in recent years. Yeah,
(35:33):
I think he's I think he's I think he's remarkable.
I think he made the Sarkeesian this last year because
Steve kind of looked like he knew what he was
doing with Ta and Jalen, but when push came to
shot with a big game moment, uh, he looked lost
in terms of how he went about his business, and
Mac Jones made him look like a superstar. Mac Jones
got him the Texas Longhorns head coaching job. Um Joe, gurl,
(35:58):
what was it? Who was Joe Burrow throwing to Edwards Hilaire,
UH with a bunch of bums out there. No, there's
Jamar Jason, justin Jefferson, there's ballers, right, I mean, so,
I mean, if you're gonna it's gonna knock Mac for it,
you've gotta not Burrow for it too. And and I
don't believe that to be the case at all. Howcome
to UH and Jalen couldn't win a national championship um
(36:20):
start to finish? You know what if the third guy
in line was actually the best of the three. And
so therefore I'm every I'm a huge, huge fan of
Mac Jones. If he goes the third to San Francisco,
I'll be I'll be, I'll be very very happy for him.
I have no idea what San Francisco is going to do.
John Beck, who is a quarterback guru and coach really
(36:42):
close to Kyle Shanahan. Apparently Kyle had shuttled him off
to to UH North Dakota to work with Trey before
this last workout. So that makes me leave lean a
little bit towards the body. Irons taking a leap um
for the North Dakota state product at three we'll see,
we'll find out. I think any of the three guys
(37:03):
at Landed Standrancisco are gonna have great careers, all right,
and right, you'll actually be in for our old, our
former colleague, Rich eisen Right, You're gonna be hosting for
him on the NFL Draft week, Is that correct? Yeah?
So Rich is in the gonna be in Cleveland hosting
UH NFL Draft stuff for NFL Network. Because of COVID,
his his daily UH television and radio show. UM couldn't
(37:28):
travel because of COVID, and so you know, you know,
by the grace of God, he he has been a
huge supporter of mine and gaving me opportunity after opportunity,
and sure enough two of the biggest platforms day of
the Draft or the day after the first round of
the Draft. I'm gonna be hosting the Big Fellas UH
TV and radio show both days. So excited about that.
(37:49):
It gonna be a ton of talk about UM. Always
have a blast with those guys on that show. UH
can't write. It's gonna be a great week. Awesome, very cool.
Thank you for your time, Ryan continued to Briany, good
luck and we'll talk to you down line. Thank you
you Betbellots take it easy, yeah, thanks great. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays
(38:09):
at two am eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be sure to
catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays at
two am eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app
Host
Ben Maller
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