April 16, 2021 • 33 mins
Longtime Sportscaster who called gams for the Orioles, Rangers, Bullets and many more, Mel Proctor details his amazing career and the unbelievable talents that he worked with, worked for, and learned from over his riveting career.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Boom. If you thought four hours a day, minutes a
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(00:24):
Maller starts right now that it is the Fifth Hour
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(00:50):
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(01:10):
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So I am very excited. I admit it's one of
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(02:39):
that influenced me, that I watched and listened to in
my younger days. And we have pulled out of the
ethos Mel Proctor. Now, if you're from the Washington, DC area,
if you're from Baltimore, chances are you are well aware
(03:00):
of Mel Procter because for years he was the play
by play voice of the Washington Bullets. That's right, they
used to be the Bullets and the Baltimore Orioles. And
I most associate Mel with the Orioles. I actually was
around him a bit a few years ago. I spent
a long time now, but he was the radio guy
(03:21):
for the Clippers for several years, and that's where I
got to know Mel a little bit, and I had
lost track of him. I was like, I wonder what
Mel proctors up to. And for those that have not
seen his work, if you're younger, you can actually find
some old Orio games on YouTube and very entertaining fun broadcaster.
(03:45):
Did everything, did network play by play, did NF for basketball,
did play by play boxing football. He was all over
the place, so let's welcome in now, Mel Procter joining
us here on the fifth Hour with Ben Maller and Mel,
thank you for doing this. I guess we want to
talk about you, who make this all about you, at
(04:06):
least most of it. So how old were you Mel
when you realized you wanted to be a broadcaster? Well,
when I was growing up, but it was the last
thing that I thought of. I wanted to be amazing
League baseball player, and uh, it was good enough to
play in high school and college, but I had a
little trouble hitting the curve ball. So when I graduated
(04:28):
from college, I had no idea what I wanted to do.
I took a real job in Denver for about six months,
and uh, there was a football player who just retired
from Denver Proco's named Lionel Taylor, and he worked at
this company C A. Norgren. He was, you know, he
kissed babies and shook ads and stuff. And I got
(04:48):
to know him and we both admitted that we missed
being in sports and had to get back. And he
showed up one day and said, I'd like you to
meet the new wide receiver coach the Los Angeles Rams,
and he left for that job, and I thought, well,
I gotta get out of here somehow. Code and tie
seven thirty in the morning were two coffee breaks a day. No,
(05:11):
thank you, I can't do this. So uh, Steve Sable
of NFL Films had gone to Colorado College, where I
went to school. I didn't know Steve, but he was
several years ahead of me, and some of my fraternity
brothers knew Steve. So I started writing letters to his father,
Ed Sable, about a job, and they said that out
(05:34):
there's nothing there, and so I just kept sending stuff anyway,
ideas for shows and that kind of thing. And I
happened to call one time talk with a friend of
mine new works there, and I said, I gotta come
back there for a wedding. Would it be worth stopping
buy in Philadelphia to see NFL films And he goes, yeah,
You're timing may be perfect. So I went back, Uh,
(05:55):
talked to Ed Sable, he hired me. I spent three
and a half years at NFL Elms as a writer producer,
still having no thoughts of being a broadcaster. But I
got to know a lot of the guys who came
into their age films like past summer and Charlie Jones
and Tom Brookshire and those guys. And I heard him
talking about the games they've done that day, and I thought,
(06:17):
you know, I would really rather be out of the
game somewhere, but in a dark editing room or writing
a script. So I cont the local radio station into
let me do some high school football. I was a
coling man at first, and then one day to play
by play guy called and said, no, I can't do
the game. I'm sick. Gonna have to do play by
(06:39):
play and I can still to this day remember it.
It was the Upper perky Omen Indians and in Pennsylvania
against somebody. That was the first game I did, and
I said, God, I could do this for the living.
So I went from there to doing high school again
for for a team for a year or so and
(07:00):
who lollly advertising did everything and then uh, to make
a long story showed, I guess. I went to Hawaii
on vacation and fell in love with the place, and
I had written a letter there to the radio station
but never got an answer. So I called the guy,
Earl McDaniel, who was general manager of k g MP,
(07:20):
and he said, come on over and we got together
for lunch, and he liked me and we hired me,
and so I love for Hawaii Wire spent five years
and that's where I really got online experience. So to
answer your question, I never really thought about being broadcast
until after I got out of college and the real
world kind of hit me. Yeah, well, it certainly beats
(07:42):
having having a regular job. But I didn't even realize
he would have worked in NFL films, And I knew
you had done all the different play by play stuff.
But I loved, you know, growing up, it influenced me
as a sports fan the stuff that NFL films turned out.
And like a lot of guys around my age before
high school football games to fire up the team, they
(08:04):
were putting an NFL films, you know, season and review
documentary and and it was an amazing thing that you know,
and you worked and you were part of it. I
they would make the most mundane, boring team that was,
you know, like a typical little six and ten and
five and letter, but they were it seemed like gladiators
(08:24):
in the uh in the NFL films. What was it
like behind the scenes there in those days putting those
videos together? Oh? It was. It was a great place
to work. They basically you didn't have hours. You just
showed up and work when you wanted to go on
your films. As long as you got to work done.
You could work from midnight, day in the morning, or
anytime you wanted. Really, so it's perfect and it just
(08:46):
lets you do your own thing. And I got to work.
You know, I worked with Jonathan Sounder, the great voice
of God, who narrated those films, you know, Cooling Durn Green,
and you know, I came up doing but it was
it was funny that all all these announcements would come
(09:07):
in to narrate the various films. So I got to
know them. And some of the more NBA podcasters would
come into town, and I talked him into letting me
be their statman. So I go out to the games
with them, like Jack Brickles to the Chicago Bulls and
people like that Van Miller of the Buffalo Bills and
(09:29):
Buffalo Braves. Um Marty Grickman was a big influence. The
guy from New York was well known. So I got
to know all these guys, these these podcasters, top of
line broadcasters, and I thought, God, this is this is
really what I wanted to do, So I just I
was in a good spot to to learn from some
of the best, and it was It's a great place
(09:51):
to work. It tough us decision I ever had to
make was sitting on the back steps at NFL Films,
trying to decide whether to stay in this prestigious job
in the NFL with great people and creative and fun
and or quit and go full time to a little
five thousand water radio station in Chester, Pennsylvania, like a
(10:15):
broadcast sports full time. And uh, I took a leap,
and it was very difficult and time be sure to
catch live editions of the Ben Maller Show weekdays at
two am Eastern Pacific. How hard was it, mel when
you you find your networked obviously worked at the NFL
films and you met all these people, but then and
(10:35):
to do stats, to go from the stat guy, and
then you went out to Hawaii, and then to get
that first big league play by play opportunity? How how
how did that work back in those days as opposed
to what's going on in you know today? Well, I
was in Hawaii for five years and and loved it
(10:57):
and married a girl from there from Maui, and you know,
as I'm truly sure that I was probably gonna stay there,
but I wanted to do big league sports. And I
was doing minor league baseball for the Hawaii Islanders, which
are the Padres Cripple a affiliate, and so i'd go
to spring trending. I get to know their announcers Jerry
(11:17):
Coleman and Rob Chattel, and are those guys. Um, So
I started applying for a few jobs. I'm more than
a few accident, I think. I I applied to the
Houston Astros when in they're and interviewed. The balt Memorials
flew me into Oakland for a series because they thought
Chuck Thompson was going to retire. Well it went on
(11:38):
for another thirty years like chever uh, And then the
Angels talked to me. I came down the number two
guys there. Um. I'd applied for some NBA jobs and
I was getting close to things, but it was so frustrating,
you know, looking back at it, I had no idea
(11:58):
how hard it is to advance to that level of broadcasting.
But one Sunday we were sitting out on there my
lan I having a glass of wine my wife and
I are wife to be and in the phone rang
and it was w t Op in Washington, DC. The
call and asked me if I wanted to be the
(12:19):
Playboy play announcer for the Washington Bullets were just one
NBA championship, and I said sure, yeah, let's go. Well,
about about two hours later, I get another phone call
the merv Kings. It was general manager of the San
Diego UH Clippers, and he says, we like you that
(12:40):
we are player by playguy on radio. I said, oh Jesus,
I don't understand. This is after years of trying. Suddenly
I get two calls within twenty four hours offering me
NBA jobs. I said, I'd really rather come to San
Diego because it's warmer, and my wife says, from Hawaii,
I think it'd be an easy your adjustment for her.
(13:01):
But earth Caves became a good friend. Said I'll be
honest with you. He said, the Bulls suggested on the
championship it's a bigger market, there's more exposure, UH, And
to be honest, I'm not sure how long we're gonna
be in San Diego. So he said you have to
take the Bullets job. So that's how I got my
first day of league job. Wow, that's that's a wild,
(13:24):
wild story. And and and then you know, I always
associate you because in my age, I associate you with
the Orioles, but you were with the Bullets, you in
that area back and for when you run across people
that recall your career. Do people associate you more with
the Orioles or the Washington Bullets or somebody else? I
(13:47):
think both? Really, yeah, because I was sitting at Baltimore
Washington Market for almost twenty years. So uh, you know,
my first day with the Bulls a seventy seventy nine.
They went to the finals and lost to Seattle after
winning the previous year. But that franchise has never made
it back to the NBA finals since then. What is
(14:08):
that forty two years or something? They evilid it back?
I happen to be part of it, so that was
wonderful and they haven't and they have a new name now.
See they seemed their name and number of years ago.
So there no no more Bullets anymore than yeah, but
I was there when they had great teams with Wes
Unseld and Elvin Hayes and Bobby Dandridge and Dick Motto
(14:30):
was a coach, and it was a great time to
be there. And then of course I was for the
Orioles and got to see most of Cal Ripken's career
and they had some great teams there. I did that
for fourteen years um and then came to the cable network.
I worked for Home Thing Sports was being sold and
(14:51):
everything was up in the air, so I didn't know
what I was gonna do. But Loyal Lakino, who had
run the Orioles, was president of San Diego Padres, and
they offered me a job doing the TV games. And
I've always learned to live here, so I said, let's go.
So we headed to San Diego. I think maybe a
Padres be the Padres forever. It lasted five years. Then
(15:15):
Larry got pushed out by the owner, John Moore's, and
everyone who worked for him out the door too. So
far in our life works sometimes. But yeah, and you
have you know you so you've you've done play by
play across I know you did network stuff. You did
some football play by play, if you don't any hockey,
whereas if you hockey is the only thing I've never done.
(15:39):
I've done boxing for Turner, uh, T n T and
TBS uh. You know, did the good World Games boxing.
I've done everything except hockey. Yeah, I mean all the
sports that you've done, What do you find the easiest
and what is the most difficult as a play by
(15:59):
play guy. Well, I I think the easiest thing comes
easiest for me for some reason, and it's the most fun.
It's doing NBA basketball and a radio by myself, which
I did for many years, no color man, just me,
and it could get so lost and doing it's just
a wonderful feeling. And I think I had a feel
(16:22):
for it because I had played college basketball and kind
of sense the rhythms of the game and developed in
an orthodox style of describing things that seemed sitting well
with people. And I think that was probably the thing
I did best. Baseball is the most difficult because well,
(16:43):
it's every day for one thing, so you have to
you have to be around the batting gage and find
out what the latest is. It's easier now with all
the information, and but you know, in those days you
had to really work at it to get fresh information
because you can't just keep the same thing every day
about the same players, the same teams. You have to
(17:04):
come up with the press material and baseball games can
get didn't get slow. I'm free to have our game
with you know. I still remember the game in Texas
when the Rangers beat the Oils twenty six to seven
whatever for that game, and I don't think I've ever
drunk so much there in my life. And after that
(17:26):
game they saw asuly your question. Yeah, I think baseball
was the most difficult. Yeah. And I used to watch
you on the satellite during the Oil Again, you always
seem to have a good time even when the Oils
had terrible teams. Occasionally you seem like you were enjoying yourself.
You you were not you weren't taking it too seriously.
(17:48):
You had the fun. I feel like you had a
pretty good balance of having fun and then you know,
calling the game. How did you get to that point,
mel Because a lot of it is like two types.
Those guys have fun there the guys that are kind
of hard old types to take it way too serious.
I felt you had a good time. You were you
were having fun doing the games even when they were terrible. Well,
a couple of things happened, but like for many years,
(18:10):
I think I I emulated different broadcasters or tried to
steal things from different people, and did things to please
the people I work for. And at one point I
realized this is not gonna work. This business is so
fickle that you know, we can't please your boss or
you know who your boss is gonna be next year,
(18:32):
or the hell with it. If I can please myself
and have some fun, that's all I care about. So
that's the attitude I took. I'm just gonna go out.
I want to have fun. I'm gonna try to have
much excitement as I had experience if I was at
a ballpark. And then when I got to Baltimore, they
had a crazy ex player named John Lowenstein retired and
(18:53):
he became my partner. And John is about the most
awful walk character I've ever met in my life. And
that we just hit it off and it was like
it was love stopfter after that. Yeah, that's outstanding. And uh,
and some of your some of your old games are
on YouTube, but I don't know if you ever check
those out. But every you know, I occasionally, especially last
(19:14):
year during the pandemic, I'd flip on some of the
old games and they you know, the random old like
mid eighties orios and A's game will be on and
you'll you'll be doing the playoff. That it's pretty cool
to check out some stuff. But you mentioned getting information,
and I think we have a bunch of young guys
that listen, that want to be They want to follow
(19:36):
in your footsteps, guys like yourself that have had big
careers and play by playing with not but but put
in perspective, and now I can go on Twitter and
social media and have content coming out of my ears
and my you know, my nose and my eyes miss everywhere.
But it wasn't like that. You had to depend on
the newspapers and you had to depend on getting information.
(19:58):
So so kind of walk me me what it was
like when you're preparing and you had to get, as
you said, new information. How difficult was it to obtain
new information on the teams. Well, that's a good question.
It was. It was difficult. I used to carry around
like a huge, well just scrapbook was filled with newspaper
(20:18):
clippings and stories taken out of magazines and about different
players and teams, and that was constantly updating that looking
for stuff and books and wherever I could find it.
It was all in print then, but it was not
on the internet. That what's the internet or as I know,
And uh so that's why I had most of the stuff.
(20:39):
And some of my broadcast partners you just laugh. I mean,
like the late Mike Clinic and Baltimore said, I can't
believe to carry all the stuff around, like the big
book full of clippings and stuff that I would refer
to from time to time and you know, pullout and
nugget to talk about. Then I I just spent a
lot of time around the Bad Engage in the clubhouse,
(21:02):
just you know, getting to know the players and the
manager and so forth, and just just working at it.
But I always loved the research in the things for
some reason, which I think is what let me into
writing some books. Be sure to catch live editions of
the Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern Pacific. Yeah,
(21:23):
that's right, if I wanted to talk about that, because
for those that don't know mel long career as a
play by play guy, but you've you've written several books.
The one that they caught my attention. I'm still in
the middle of it, so I have not been able
to fish it. But it's a few years old. But
love the work, Hate the Business is the headline on this,
(21:43):
and it's one of the several books that you've written
over the years that really resonated with me because I
have a similar perspective. Mel I am a little younger,
but I love working in sports radio. Some of the
politics of it. Uh, yeah, I'm not a big fan,
so kind of you know, sell me on the book here.
Obviously I'm a fan. I'm a believer in the book play.
(22:06):
But for those that considering it, why should somebody buy
that book? Well, I should point out that the book
originally came out on ten twelve years ago, but I
just recently released an audio book where I narrated the book,
and I think it's better than the pret work because
you know, my voice is there in the emotion of
(22:26):
some of the things that I felt. So that's available
now from audible, Amazon and iTunes for those who want
to get it sparted. But yeah, I I just what
what happened was how this book thing came about? It
(22:46):
was Well, first book I wrote was a book called
The Official Fans Guy That Affused It, which is about
the old TV to television show in the nineties sixties,
which is my all time favorite show, and it was
one whether when I had some spare time, so I
I always wanted to write a book, so I said,
I'm gonna research this thing and see if I can
(23:07):
come up with a book. So when we take road trips,
I would try to schedule them with interviewing people who
had worked on the show. UM, like Barry Morris who
played Lieutenant Gerard. He lived in Toronto. When I was
up there for a game, I got together with him
and UM, all these different stars that were on the show.
(23:32):
I interviewed a lot of them. They wrote the book
and got it published. So that was the first time.
But then what really inspired the book you're talking about
was in two thousand seven, Uh, I had broadcasts for
both the Orioles are most of cal Ripton's career, also
(23:53):
for Tony Gwinn's three thousand hit last game of his career,
which was my last in San Diego. But I went
to a bookstore in San Diego, Warwick's well known bookstore,
where cal Ripken was signing the book. I went down
to see cow and say hello, and I was talking
with John Maroon, who was the pr director to the team,
(24:16):
and we figured out that I was the only person
not only in the universal, the world or anywhere, to
a broadcast for both Ripken and Tony Glenn and to
call Ripken's record setting game when he broke through Garrett's
record and Tony Gwinn's the three thousand hit, and both
(24:38):
of them were going in the Hall of Fame that
year two thousand seven. So I paid my own way
back to Cooperstown and said, I'm just gonna experience this.
It's a one of a lifetime thing, and almost say
if I can write a book about it. So that's
how it began. I just kind of went from there
and thought, looking back on my career, how much I'd
enjoyed it. But I started from the big I think,
(25:00):
I just, you know, give a chronical chronological history of
what I had done, and it turned up to be
a book. Yeah, And you were around Ripken and Gwynn.
I was around Tony a little bit, uh and he
was like the coolest star most you know, down the
earth star that I recalled being around in those days
(25:21):
because he just seemed to have a really good perspective
on on everything. What was it like being around him
with the Padres in those days. Ah, he was the best,
one of the best human beings God ever made. Unfortunately
lost him too early. And you know, but he was.
He was so talented, such a wonderful person. Um. One
(25:44):
of my favorite Tony Gwen stories is my son was
in high school at the time and he was playing
baseball and he was in a slump. He wasn't hitting.
So mord Rettenan was the Podres hitting coach and I said,
lord of my son's had a whole trouble with his hitting,
but you help him out. He said, sure, bring him
in Sunday in the morning before a game and I'll
(26:04):
help it. So I brought my son in. We went
down to the batting cages inside the stadium and Tony
Groom was already there at about nine o'clock in the morning,
and they had played a late game the night before,
and he was Tony working up a sweat in the
batting cage swing Balay early the morning when all of
his teammates are probably sound asleep. And I remember saying,
(26:28):
I said, Tony, what what are you doing here? And
they were playing Seattle that night, so he said, I'm
trying to figure out a way to hit Randy Johnson
the big unit, but he was one of the few
guys who gave Tony's trouble. But that's how dedicated Tony
was to his craft to be there early in the
(26:48):
morning after a night game the night before, and that
just showed the kind of person he was. And by
the way, morv did help my son get out of
the slump. But always impressed about Tony. Yeah, and now
you were in with the oils felt were you there
when they had that one star? When you're there? They oh, yeah,
(27:11):
what do you? What do you do as a broadcaster
when you're already buried a month into the season, Like,
how do you? How do you? How did you handle
that night? Was I think was the year in the tea?
How walked me through what that was like as a broadcast?
It's painful thing back on it. But they were, you know,
they were losing in every possible way, being there or
(27:33):
here or hit bast on the bases, loaded or fan
interference or I mean any thing you could imagine that
They just kept losing and losing. And I remember John
lowinstyme my partners, saying to me, he said, you know
the best thing that could happen to this team is
they keep losing because if they win a game, people
(27:55):
are gonna stop covering them. But the more they lost,
the more the coverage in East and there were writers
and reporters showing up from everywhere including Japan. I think
that the chronicle this team going one start this season.
It was just unreal. And uh, I can still remember
(28:18):
a picture of Billy Ripton leaning on his bat with
his forehead on his novel of his bat and looking
just so sad during that time. Um, but it's amazing
what happened. They were all in twenty one and they
came back after finally winning a game, and Larry Latino
(28:41):
was president of the team and he had been working
UH with ed were Benn Williams, who owned the team,
and the mayor of Baltimore on a on an agreement
to get a new stadium built. So when the team
came back into town they finally won a game to
end the losing street, they made this dramatic announcement about
(29:03):
the new stadium, which turned out to be calmed in
the arts. So they turned into an amazing positive and
the next year in they came within a few days
of winning American League ease, Yes, it was. It was
a great turner. And that eight Oil team for those
that are young and don't I mean they had a
Hall of famer Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray was on that, Yeah,
(29:26):
a young Kurt Schilling who was not a Hall of
Famer but a very good player, and Chilling, Brady Anderson.
Um yeah, and and still owing twenty one to start
the year. But uh no, just a word of advice
that if somebody breaking in right now, what would you
say to a young broadcaster who wants to, as I
(29:47):
said earlier, following your footsteps, what advice would you give
him go out and win twenty games or win a
Heisman trophy? That does help? I yeah, I mean it is.
It is difficult for a guy without your professionally always, right,
I mean it's very you know, I deal with the
(30:08):
same thing in my you know, doing sports radio. It's
you know, it's a little a little difficult. But it
is also networking, right, I mean, you got to know
people and you did a great thing. As you said,
you started in the NFL films. You networked. That's a
big dealt of it too, right. You gotta meet people
and usually the people you start out with, the people
behind the scenes, end up, you know, moving up, and
then they can help you out, right, he had to
(30:30):
some degree. But when I got the Bullets job, I
was working in Hawaii and I used to have a
game called the Rainbow Classic where they bring in teams
from all over the country to play. And all the
NBA general managers would would use this as an excuse,
you take a tripto Hawaii party for a week. And
(30:53):
so I you know, I hung out with these guys
and I got to know them. So in the case
of Washington team, Bob Perry was a general out at
your well, I heard about this opening in Washington. I
I called Bob and I said, you know, there's this job.
There's an involved played by played for the Bullets And
he said, yes, do you want to do it? And
I said hell yes, he said all right, So he
(31:14):
made a call and I had a lot to do
with my getting iron absolutely all right, and again promote
the pull out the book, the audio book, and uh,
how can people find it? And he said only ten bucks? Right,
that's a good that's the deal. They love your work.
I love the work. Hate the business is the name
of it, and again where can they find it now? Uh,
(31:34):
it's a audible Amazon or iTunes? All right? So where
do you get your audio books your audio content there?
And where do you go to? W w www dot
audible dot com? All right, Amazon obviously, Yeah, And then
what do you want? What have you been up to you?
(31:56):
I mean, I haven't talked to him about you would
do for those I was around you with you doing
the Clippers. You actually ended up doing the l A Clippers.
You did some some work with the clips, and I
was around you a little bit then. But what have
you been up to recently? You're living in San Diego, right,
You're enjoying life. Is a beautiful place to live, wonderful city,
the whole thing. Oh yeah, uh yeah. I I did
the Clippers for three years and I probably was stayed forever,
(32:20):
but they weren't paying me much and so I had
a chance to go to Washington to be the first
television voice of the Washington Nationals. But it was only
a one year deal because the team had no ownership.
They were being run by Major League Baseball, so they
could only offer a one year contract. And uh, looking
(32:41):
back on it, it was a mistake, but I took
the job and went there and had a ball working
with Ron Darling went on to have a great career
as a good friend. But that's where things pretty much ended.
And so I just, you know, came back here. I
wrote another book about Gene Mark, former major league manager,
and well did it. Little list little that did some
(33:05):
college games for the University of Y and a few
other things. But basically I'm just ticked back now and
spending time with my dogs and trying to think of
another book to write. There you go, you gotta come
up with another. And when you come up with the book, Mail,
we're gonna have you back. We're gonna sell the book, Bell,
We're gonna move a product for your mail, is what
(33:27):
we're gonna do. Okay, all right, Well, don't forg you.
We've got official fans guide to the Fugitive. I love
to work when I hate the business and the little
general baseball life of Gene Mark, which is very interesting. Awesome. Hey, no, thanks,
thanks for your time. I appreciate it, and we'll catch
up again soon. Thank you. Then, anytime, it's been a pleasure.
(33:50):
Thank you.
Boom. If you thought four hours a day, minutes a
week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants of
the old Republic, the sole fashion of fairness. He treats
crackheads in the ghetto Cutter the same as the rich
pill poppers in the penthouse, the clearing House of hot takes,
break free for something special. The Fifth Hour with Ben
(00:24):
Maller starts right now that it is the Fifth Hour
with Ben Mallor back at it again, a spinoff of
the Overnight show. We are so happy you have found
us is we are in the air everywhere, the vast
power of I heart, the global reach of podcasting. As
(00:50):
we are together again. It is the weekend and we
were back at it now. This is an interview podcast.
And there's a couple of things you need to know
about this. You are giving You're being given a gift
here because this weekend. Why is this weekend like most
other weekends, Because David Gascon is not here. So it's
(01:10):
you just stuck with me on this Friday podcast. Now,
on Saturday and Sunday, I'll have my trustee sidekick, not Gascon.
Somebody's actually good uh in here. But this particular podcast,
it's all about me in the interview and all that stuff.
So welcome in our a friend, a broadcasting friend here
(01:32):
in a minute. But a couple of things to take
care of. If you have not like this podcast, please
do that. That helps us out. I know it seems ridiculous.
It's a pain, and that took us. I understand that.
But five stars. If you have some time to write
a review, I know you've got to come up with
the name and all that. That helps us out as well.
Positive reviews. We don't need negative reviews. Positive help us out. Uh.
(01:56):
And then Cameo dot com. If you're on the internet,
and which obviously are, you'll see your podcast. But if
you if you have a big fan of the show,
if you have a relative that's a fan of the show,
and you want a video monologue, a Mallard monologue just
for you, uh, we can do that on cameo. It's
not free, but it's not very much there on Cameo
(02:16):
dot com and obviously all of the social media channels.
Ben Mallar on Twitter, we use that a lot during
the weekday radio show, on the overnight Instagram, Ben Mallar
on Fox and the Facebook page which is Ben Mallard Show.
So I am very excited. I admit it's one of
my guilty pleasures. I love talking to broadcasters, especially people
(02:39):
that influenced me, that I watched and listened to in
my younger days. And we have pulled out of the
ethos Mel Proctor. Now, if you're from the Washington, DC area,
if you're from Baltimore, chances are you are well aware
(03:00):
of Mel Procter because for years he was the play
by play voice of the Washington Bullets. That's right, they
used to be the Bullets and the Baltimore Orioles. And
I most associate Mel with the Orioles. I actually was
around him a bit a few years ago. I spent
a long time now, but he was the radio guy
(03:21):
for the Clippers for several years, and that's where I
got to know Mel a little bit, and I had
lost track of him. I was like, I wonder what
Mel proctors up to. And for those that have not
seen his work, if you're younger, you can actually find
some old Orio games on YouTube and very entertaining fun broadcaster.
(03:45):
Did everything, did network play by play, did NF for basketball,
did play by play boxing football. He was all over
the place, so let's welcome in now, Mel Procter joining
us here on the fifth Hour with Ben Maller and Mel,
thank you for doing this. I guess we want to
talk about you, who make this all about you, at
(04:06):
least most of it. So how old were you Mel
when you realized you wanted to be a broadcaster? Well,
when I was growing up, but it was the last
thing that I thought of. I wanted to be amazing
League baseball player, and uh, it was good enough to
play in high school and college, but I had a
little trouble hitting the curve ball. So when I graduated
(04:28):
from college, I had no idea what I wanted to do.
I took a real job in Denver for about six months,
and uh, there was a football player who just retired
from Denver Proco's named Lionel Taylor, and he worked at
this company C A. Norgren. He was, you know, he
kissed babies and shook ads and stuff. And I got
(04:48):
to know him and we both admitted that we missed
being in sports and had to get back. And he
showed up one day and said, I'd like you to
meet the new wide receiver coach the Los Angeles Rams,
and he left for that job, and I thought, well,
I gotta get out of here somehow. Code and tie
seven thirty in the morning were two coffee breaks a day. No,
(05:11):
thank you, I can't do this. So uh, Steve Sable
of NFL Films had gone to Colorado College, where I
went to school. I didn't know Steve, but he was
several years ahead of me, and some of my fraternity
brothers knew Steve. So I started writing letters to his father,
Ed Sable, about a job, and they said that out
(05:34):
there's nothing there, and so I just kept sending stuff anyway,
ideas for shows and that kind of thing. And I
happened to call one time talk with a friend of
mine new works there, and I said, I gotta come
back there for a wedding. Would it be worth stopping
buy in Philadelphia to see NFL films And he goes, yeah,
You're timing may be perfect. So I went back, Uh,
(05:55):
talked to Ed Sable, he hired me. I spent three
and a half years at NFL Elms as a writer producer,
still having no thoughts of being a broadcaster. But I
got to know a lot of the guys who came
into their age films like past summer and Charlie Jones
and Tom Brookshire and those guys. And I heard him
talking about the games they've done that day, and I thought,
(06:17):
you know, I would really rather be out of the
game somewhere, but in a dark editing room or writing
a script. So I cont the local radio station into
let me do some high school football. I was a
coling man at first, and then one day to play
by play guy called and said, no, I can't do
the game. I'm sick. Gonna have to do play by
(06:39):
play and I can still to this day remember it.
It was the Upper perky Omen Indians and in Pennsylvania
against somebody. That was the first game I did, and
I said, God, I could do this for the living.
So I went from there to doing high school again
for for a team for a year or so and
(07:00):
who lollly advertising did everything and then uh, to make
a long story showed, I guess. I went to Hawaii
on vacation and fell in love with the place, and
I had written a letter there to the radio station
but never got an answer. So I called the guy,
Earl McDaniel, who was general manager of k g MP,
(07:20):
and he said, come on over and we got together
for lunch, and he liked me and we hired me,
and so I love for Hawaii Wire spent five years
and that's where I really got online experience. So to
answer your question, I never really thought about being broadcast
until after I got out of college and the real
world kind of hit me. Yeah, well, it certainly beats
(07:42):
having having a regular job. But I didn't even realize
he would have worked in NFL films, And I knew
you had done all the different play by play stuff.
But I loved, you know, growing up, it influenced me
as a sports fan the stuff that NFL films turned out.
And like a lot of guys around my age before
high school football games to fire up the team, they
(08:04):
were putting an NFL films, you know, season and review
documentary and and it was an amazing thing that you know,
and you worked and you were part of it. I
they would make the most mundane, boring team that was,
you know, like a typical little six and ten and
five and letter, but they were it seemed like gladiators
(08:24):
in the uh in the NFL films. What was it
like behind the scenes there in those days putting those
videos together? Oh? It was. It was a great place
to work. They basically you didn't have hours. You just
showed up and work when you wanted to go on
your films. As long as you got to work done.
You could work from midnight, day in the morning, or
anytime you wanted. Really, so it's perfect and it just
(08:46):
lets you do your own thing. And I got to work.
You know, I worked with Jonathan Sounder, the great voice
of God, who narrated those films, you know, Cooling Durn Green,
and you know, I came up doing but it was
it was funny that all all these announcements would come
(09:07):
in to narrate the various films. So I got to
know them. And some of the more NBA podcasters would
come into town, and I talked him into letting me
be their statman. So I go out to the games
with them, like Jack Brickles to the Chicago Bulls and
people like that Van Miller of the Buffalo Bills and
(09:29):
Buffalo Braves. Um Marty Grickman was a big influence. The
guy from New York was well known. So I got
to know all these guys, these these podcasters, top of
line broadcasters, and I thought, God, this is this is
really what I wanted to do, So I just I
was in a good spot to to learn from some
of the best, and it was It's a great place
(09:51):
to work. It tough us decision I ever had to
make was sitting on the back steps at NFL Films,
trying to decide whether to stay in this prestigious job
in the NFL with great people and creative and fun
and or quit and go full time to a little
five thousand water radio station in Chester, Pennsylvania, like a
(10:15):
broadcast sports full time. And uh, I took a leap,
and it was very difficult and time be sure to
catch live editions of the Ben Maller Show weekdays at
two am Eastern Pacific. How hard was it, mel when
you you find your networked obviously worked at the NFL
films and you met all these people, but then and
(10:35):
to do stats, to go from the stat guy, and
then you went out to Hawaii, and then to get
that first big league play by play opportunity? How how
how did that work back in those days as opposed
to what's going on in you know today? Well, I
was in Hawaii for five years and and loved it
(10:57):
and married a girl from there from Maui, and you know,
as I'm truly sure that I was probably gonna stay there,
but I wanted to do big league sports. And I
was doing minor league baseball for the Hawaii Islanders, which
are the Padres Cripple a affiliate, and so i'd go
to spring trending. I get to know their announcers Jerry
(11:17):
Coleman and Rob Chattel, and are those guys. Um, So
I started applying for a few jobs. I'm more than
a few accident, I think. I I applied to the
Houston Astros when in they're and interviewed. The balt Memorials
flew me into Oakland for a series because they thought
Chuck Thompson was going to retire. Well it went on
(11:38):
for another thirty years like chever uh, And then the
Angels talked to me. I came down the number two
guys there. Um. I'd applied for some NBA jobs and
I was getting close to things, but it was so frustrating,
you know, looking back at it, I had no idea
(11:58):
how hard it is to advance to that level of broadcasting.
But one Sunday we were sitting out on there my
lan I having a glass of wine my wife and
I are wife to be and in the phone rang
and it was w t Op in Washington, DC. The
call and asked me if I wanted to be the
(12:19):
Playboy play announcer for the Washington Bullets were just one
NBA championship, and I said sure, yeah, let's go. Well,
about about two hours later, I get another phone call
the merv Kings. It was general manager of the San
Diego UH Clippers, and he says, we like you that
(12:40):
we are player by playguy on radio. I said, oh Jesus,
I don't understand. This is after years of trying. Suddenly
I get two calls within twenty four hours offering me
NBA jobs. I said, I'd really rather come to San
Diego because it's warmer, and my wife says, from Hawaii,
I think it'd be an easy your adjustment for her.
(13:01):
But earth Caves became a good friend. Said I'll be
honest with you. He said, the Bulls suggested on the
championship it's a bigger market, there's more exposure, UH, And
to be honest, I'm not sure how long we're gonna
be in San Diego. So he said you have to
take the Bullets job. So that's how I got my
first day of league job. Wow, that's that's a wild,
(13:24):
wild story. And and and then you know, I always
associate you because in my age, I associate you with
the Orioles, but you were with the Bullets, you in
that area back and for when you run across people
that recall your career. Do people associate you more with
the Orioles or the Washington Bullets or somebody else? I
(13:47):
think both? Really, yeah, because I was sitting at Baltimore
Washington Market for almost twenty years. So uh, you know,
my first day with the Bulls a seventy seventy nine.
They went to the finals and lost to Seattle after
winning the previous year. But that franchise has never made
it back to the NBA finals since then. What is
(14:08):
that forty two years or something? They evilid it back?
I happen to be part of it, so that was
wonderful and they haven't and they have a new name now.
See they seemed their name and number of years ago.
So there no no more Bullets anymore than yeah, but
I was there when they had great teams with Wes
Unseld and Elvin Hayes and Bobby Dandridge and Dick Motto
(14:30):
was a coach, and it was a great time to
be there. And then of course I was for the
Orioles and got to see most of Cal Ripken's career
and they had some great teams there. I did that
for fourteen years um and then came to the cable network.
I worked for Home Thing Sports was being sold and
(14:51):
everything was up in the air, so I didn't know
what I was gonna do. But Loyal Lakino, who had
run the Orioles, was president of San Diego Padres, and
they offered me a job doing the TV games. And
I've always learned to live here, so I said, let's go.
So we headed to San Diego. I think maybe a
Padres be the Padres forever. It lasted five years. Then
(15:15):
Larry got pushed out by the owner, John Moore's, and
everyone who worked for him out the door too. So
far in our life works sometimes. But yeah, and you
have you know you so you've you've done play by
play across I know you did network stuff. You did
some football play by play, if you don't any hockey,
whereas if you hockey is the only thing I've never done.
(15:39):
I've done boxing for Turner, uh, T n T and
TBS uh. You know, did the good World Games boxing.
I've done everything except hockey. Yeah, I mean all the
sports that you've done, What do you find the easiest
and what is the most difficult as a play by
(15:59):
play guy. Well, I I think the easiest thing comes
easiest for me for some reason, and it's the most fun.
It's doing NBA basketball and a radio by myself, which
I did for many years, no color man, just me,
and it could get so lost and doing it's just
a wonderful feeling. And I think I had a feel
(16:22):
for it because I had played college basketball and kind
of sense the rhythms of the game and developed in
an orthodox style of describing things that seemed sitting well
with people. And I think that was probably the thing
I did best. Baseball is the most difficult because well,
(16:43):
it's every day for one thing, so you have to
you have to be around the batting gage and find
out what the latest is. It's easier now with all
the information, and but you know, in those days you
had to really work at it to get fresh information
because you can't just keep the same thing every day
about the same players, the same teams. You have to
(17:04):
come up with the press material and baseball games can
get didn't get slow. I'm free to have our game
with you know. I still remember the game in Texas
when the Rangers beat the Oils twenty six to seven
whatever for that game, and I don't think I've ever
drunk so much there in my life. And after that
(17:26):
game they saw asuly your question. Yeah, I think baseball
was the most difficult. Yeah. And I used to watch
you on the satellite during the Oil Again, you always
seem to have a good time even when the Oils
had terrible teams. Occasionally you seem like you were enjoying yourself.
You you were not you weren't taking it too seriously.
(17:48):
You had the fun. I feel like you had a
pretty good balance of having fun and then you know,
calling the game. How did you get to that point,
mel Because a lot of it is like two types.
Those guys have fun there the guys that are kind
of hard old types to take it way too serious.
I felt you had a good time. You were you
were having fun doing the games even when they were terrible. Well,
a couple of things happened, but like for many years,
(18:10):
I think I I emulated different broadcasters or tried to
steal things from different people, and did things to please
the people I work for. And at one point I
realized this is not gonna work. This business is so
fickle that you know, we can't please your boss or
you know who your boss is gonna be next year,
(18:32):
or the hell with it. If I can please myself
and have some fun, that's all I care about. So
that's the attitude I took. I'm just gonna go out.
I want to have fun. I'm gonna try to have
much excitement as I had experience if I was at
a ballpark. And then when I got to Baltimore, they
had a crazy ex player named John Lowenstein retired and
(18:53):
he became my partner. And John is about the most
awful walk character I've ever met in my life. And
that we just hit it off and it was like
it was love stopfter after that. Yeah, that's outstanding. And uh,
and some of your some of your old games are
on YouTube, but I don't know if you ever check
those out. But every you know, I occasionally, especially last
(19:14):
year during the pandemic, I'd flip on some of the
old games and they you know, the random old like
mid eighties orios and A's game will be on and
you'll you'll be doing the playoff. That it's pretty cool
to check out some stuff. But you mentioned getting information,
and I think we have a bunch of young guys
that listen, that want to be They want to follow
(19:36):
in your footsteps, guys like yourself that have had big
careers and play by playing with not but but put
in perspective, and now I can go on Twitter and
social media and have content coming out of my ears
and my you know, my nose and my eyes miss everywhere.
But it wasn't like that. You had to depend on
the newspapers and you had to depend on getting information.
(19:58):
So so kind of walk me me what it was
like when you're preparing and you had to get, as
you said, new information. How difficult was it to obtain
new information on the teams. Well, that's a good question.
It was. It was difficult. I used to carry around
like a huge, well just scrapbook was filled with newspaper
(20:18):
clippings and stories taken out of magazines and about different
players and teams, and that was constantly updating that looking
for stuff and books and wherever I could find it.
It was all in print then, but it was not
on the internet. That what's the internet or as I know,
And uh so that's why I had most of the stuff.
(20:39):
And some of my broadcast partners you just laugh. I mean,
like the late Mike Clinic and Baltimore said, I can't
believe to carry all the stuff around, like the big
book full of clippings and stuff that I would refer
to from time to time and you know, pullout and
nugget to talk about. Then I I just spent a
lot of time around the Bad Engage in the clubhouse,
(21:02):
just you know, getting to know the players and the
manager and so forth, and just just working at it.
But I always loved the research in the things for
some reason, which I think is what let me into
writing some books. Be sure to catch live editions of
the Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern Pacific. Yeah,
(21:23):
that's right, if I wanted to talk about that, because
for those that don't know mel long career as a
play by play guy, but you've you've written several books.
The one that they caught my attention. I'm still in
the middle of it, so I have not been able
to fish it. But it's a few years old. But
love the work, Hate the Business is the headline on this,
(21:43):
and it's one of the several books that you've written
over the years that really resonated with me because I
have a similar perspective. Mel I am a little younger,
but I love working in sports radio. Some of the
politics of it. Uh, yeah, I'm not a big fan,
so kind of you know, sell me on the book here.
Obviously I'm a fan. I'm a believer in the book play.
(22:06):
But for those that considering it, why should somebody buy
that book? Well, I should point out that the book
originally came out on ten twelve years ago, but I
just recently released an audio book where I narrated the book,
and I think it's better than the pret work because
you know, my voice is there in the emotion of
(22:26):
some of the things that I felt. So that's available
now from audible, Amazon and iTunes for those who want
to get it sparted. But yeah, I I just what
what happened was how this book thing came about? It
(22:46):
was Well, first book I wrote was a book called
The Official Fans Guy That Affused It, which is about
the old TV to television show in the nineties sixties,
which is my all time favorite show, and it was
one whether when I had some spare time, so I
I always wanted to write a book, so I said,
I'm gonna research this thing and see if I can
(23:07):
come up with a book. So when we take road trips,
I would try to schedule them with interviewing people who
had worked on the show. UM, like Barry Morris who
played Lieutenant Gerard. He lived in Toronto. When I was
up there for a game, I got together with him
and UM, all these different stars that were on the show.
(23:32):
I interviewed a lot of them. They wrote the book
and got it published. So that was the first time.
But then what really inspired the book you're talking about
was in two thousand seven, Uh, I had broadcasts for
both the Orioles are most of cal Ripton's career, also
(23:53):
for Tony Gwinn's three thousand hit last game of his career,
which was my last in San Diego. But I went
to a bookstore in San Diego, Warwick's well known bookstore,
where cal Ripken was signing the book. I went down
to see cow and say hello, and I was talking
with John Maroon, who was the pr director to the team,
(24:16):
and we figured out that I was the only person
not only in the universal, the world or anywhere, to
a broadcast for both Ripken and Tony Glenn and to
call Ripken's record setting game when he broke through Garrett's
record and Tony Gwinn's the three thousand hit, and both
(24:38):
of them were going in the Hall of Fame that
year two thousand seven. So I paid my own way
back to Cooperstown and said, I'm just gonna experience this.
It's a one of a lifetime thing, and almost say
if I can write a book about it. So that's
how it began. I just kind of went from there
and thought, looking back on my career, how much I'd
enjoyed it. But I started from the big I think,
(25:00):
I just, you know, give a chronical chronological history of
what I had done, and it turned up to be
a book. Yeah, And you were around Ripken and Gwynn.
I was around Tony a little bit, uh and he
was like the coolest star most you know, down the
earth star that I recalled being around in those days
(25:21):
because he just seemed to have a really good perspective
on on everything. What was it like being around him
with the Padres in those days. Ah, he was the best,
one of the best human beings God ever made. Unfortunately
lost him too early. And you know, but he was.
He was so talented, such a wonderful person. Um. One
(25:44):
of my favorite Tony Gwen stories is my son was
in high school at the time and he was playing
baseball and he was in a slump. He wasn't hitting.
So mord Rettenan was the Podres hitting coach and I said,
lord of my son's had a whole trouble with his hitting,
but you help him out. He said, sure, bring him
in Sunday in the morning before a game and I'll
(26:04):
help it. So I brought my son in. We went
down to the batting cages inside the stadium and Tony
Groom was already there at about nine o'clock in the morning,
and they had played a late game the night before,
and he was Tony working up a sweat in the
batting cage swing Balay early the morning when all of
his teammates are probably sound asleep. And I remember saying,
(26:28):
I said, Tony, what what are you doing here? And
they were playing Seattle that night, so he said, I'm
trying to figure out a way to hit Randy Johnson
the big unit, but he was one of the few
guys who gave Tony's trouble. But that's how dedicated Tony
was to his craft to be there early in the
(26:48):
morning after a night game the night before, and that
just showed the kind of person he was. And by
the way, morv did help my son get out of
the slump. But always impressed about Tony. Yeah, and now
you were in with the oils felt were you there
when they had that one star? When you're there? They oh, yeah,
(27:11):
what do you? What do you do as a broadcaster
when you're already buried a month into the season, Like,
how do you? How do you? How did you handle
that night? Was I think was the year in the tea?
How walked me through what that was like as a broadcast?
It's painful thing back on it. But they were, you know,
they were losing in every possible way, being there or
(27:33):
here or hit bast on the bases, loaded or fan
interference or I mean any thing you could imagine that
They just kept losing and losing. And I remember John
lowinstyme my partners, saying to me, he said, you know
the best thing that could happen to this team is
they keep losing because if they win a game, people
(27:55):
are gonna stop covering them. But the more they lost,
the more the coverage in East and there were writers
and reporters showing up from everywhere including Japan. I think
that the chronicle this team going one start this season.
It was just unreal. And uh, I can still remember
(28:18):
a picture of Billy Ripton leaning on his bat with
his forehead on his novel of his bat and looking
just so sad during that time. Um, but it's amazing
what happened. They were all in twenty one and they
came back after finally winning a game, and Larry Latino
(28:41):
was president of the team and he had been working
UH with ed were Benn Williams, who owned the team,
and the mayor of Baltimore on a on an agreement
to get a new stadium built. So when the team
came back into town they finally won a game to
end the losing street, they made this dramatic announcement about
(29:03):
the new stadium, which turned out to be calmed in
the arts. So they turned into an amazing positive and
the next year in they came within a few days
of winning American League ease, Yes, it was. It was
a great turner. And that eight Oil team for those
that are young and don't I mean they had a
Hall of famer Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray was on that, Yeah,
(29:26):
a young Kurt Schilling who was not a Hall of
Famer but a very good player, and Chilling, Brady Anderson.
Um yeah, and and still owing twenty one to start
the year. But uh no, just a word of advice
that if somebody breaking in right now, what would you
say to a young broadcaster who wants to, as I
(29:47):
said earlier, following your footsteps, what advice would you give
him go out and win twenty games or win a
Heisman trophy? That does help? I yeah, I mean it is.
It is difficult for a guy without your professionally always, right,
I mean it's very you know, I deal with the
(30:08):
same thing in my you know, doing sports radio. It's
you know, it's a little a little difficult. But it
is also networking, right, I mean, you got to know
people and you did a great thing. As you said,
you started in the NFL films. You networked. That's a
big dealt of it too, right. You gotta meet people
and usually the people you start out with, the people
behind the scenes, end up, you know, moving up, and
then they can help you out, right, he had to
(30:30):
some degree. But when I got the Bullets job, I
was working in Hawaii and I used to have a
game called the Rainbow Classic where they bring in teams
from all over the country to play. And all the
NBA general managers would would use this as an excuse,
you take a tripto Hawaii party for a week. And
(30:53):
so I you know, I hung out with these guys
and I got to know them. So in the case
of Washington team, Bob Perry was a general out at
your well, I heard about this opening in Washington. I
I called Bob and I said, you know, there's this job.
There's an involved played by played for the Bullets And
he said, yes, do you want to do it? And
I said hell yes, he said all right, So he
(31:14):
made a call and I had a lot to do
with my getting iron absolutely all right, and again promote
the pull out the book, the audio book, and uh,
how can people find it? And he said only ten bucks? Right,
that's a good that's the deal. They love your work.
I love the work. Hate the business is the name
of it, and again where can they find it now? Uh,
(31:34):
it's a audible Amazon or iTunes? All right? So where
do you get your audio books your audio content there?
And where do you go to? W w www dot
audible dot com? All right, Amazon obviously, Yeah, And then
what do you want? What have you been up to you?
(31:56):
I mean, I haven't talked to him about you would
do for those I was around you with you doing
the Clippers. You actually ended up doing the l A Clippers.
You did some some work with the clips, and I
was around you a little bit then. But what have
you been up to recently? You're living in San Diego, right,
You're enjoying life. Is a beautiful place to live, wonderful city,
the whole thing. Oh yeah, uh yeah. I I did
the Clippers for three years and I probably was stayed forever,
(32:20):
but they weren't paying me much and so I had
a chance to go to Washington to be the first
television voice of the Washington Nationals. But it was only
a one year deal because the team had no ownership.
They were being run by Major League Baseball, so they
could only offer a one year contract. And uh, looking
(32:41):
back on it, it was a mistake, but I took
the job and went there and had a ball working
with Ron Darling went on to have a great career
as a good friend. But that's where things pretty much ended.
And so I just, you know, came back here. I
wrote another book about Gene Mark, former major league manager,
and well did it. Little list little that did some
(33:05):
college games for the University of Y and a few
other things. But basically I'm just ticked back now and
spending time with my dogs and trying to think of
another book to write. There you go, you gotta come
up with another. And when you come up with the book, Mail,
we're gonna have you back. We're gonna sell the book, Bell,
We're gonna move a product for your mail, is what
(33:27):
we're gonna do. Okay, all right, Well, don't forg you.
We've got official fans guide to the Fugitive. I love
to work when I hate the business and the little
general baseball life of Gene Mark, which is very interesting. Awesome. Hey, no, thanks,
thanks for your time. I appreciate it, and we'll catch
up again soon. Thank you. Then, anytime, it's been a pleasure.
(33:50):
Thank you.
Host
Ben Maller
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