June 30, 2025 • 58 mins
John opens the week talking about a portion from Mike Silver's new book that talks about how Tom Brady didn't want Sam Darnold in Vegas as the Raiders QB. Next, John talks about George Kittle's comments on how much rookies were making in college with NIL and if it's a mistake for certain players to leave college early because of how much they will make in college. Later, John dives into his take on the Aaron Rodgers doc on Netflix, and the way too early conversation about which coaches are on the hot seat heading into the season.
Finally, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.
5:42 - Tom Brady didn't want Darnold
12:11 - George Kittle on NIL deals
23:11 - Aaron Rodgers doc
29:42 - Early hot seat
38:31 - Mailbag
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on, everybody? How are we doing?
John Middlecoff three and now podcast? It is a Sunday afternoon.
(00:21):
I actually recorded a podcast earlier today with Colin. You
can go find that on all his feeds YouTube as well,
and I thought, you know what, let's do another podcast
because we're gonna break for Fourth of July here later
this week, so let's bang out a couple podcasts early
in the week. We'll do some football talk. Tom Brady
didn't want Darnold. I watched Enigma at least a couple
(00:42):
episodes till my wife was like, turn it off. The
Aaron Rodgers documentary. I listened to a podcast with George Kittle,
who had some interesting comments on the nil. We're also
gonna do a big mail bag at John Middlecoff is
the Instagram Fire in those dms. I'm gonna need you, guys.
You this offseason. July is a big month for you.
(01:02):
So at John middlecop fire in those dms, get your
questions answered on the show. We will interact with the
people over the course of the next month because we
need you, and we'll have podcasts. I'll probably do a
golf podcast tomorrow and then maybe one more football podcast
later this week, so make sure you're fire in those dms.
Other than that, you know the deal. If you listen
(01:24):
on this on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to
three and Out. Obviously everything up on YouTube as well.
But before we dive into any football, you know, I
gotta tell you about my friends, my partners, and the
official ticketing up of this podcast. Game Time best in
the business. You guys, want to go to what is
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(01:45):
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take as the lowest price guaranteed. Mike Silver, the longtime
(02:47):
reporter slash writer wrote for Sports Illustrated in its heyday,
just put out a new book on kind of the
Shanahan Clan. I actually just hit me, like, I think
I'm gonna try to read a couple of books this July.
That's a goal of mine. Let's read two books this July.
Not listen. I do a lot of audio books, but like,
(03:08):
sit there and read no phone, just enjoy the book,
even if it's on MyPad. Just let's do. And that's
one of them. I need to download it later tonight
for the holiday. And Mike Silver, who's pretty dialed in
through something out last week that Tom Brady was the
driving force in making sure the Raiders were not interested
in it, were signed or went down the path of
(03:31):
Sam Darnold, and obviously they didn't. They Actually he goes
to Seattle that they get Geno Smith that Pete Carroll,
you know, had a history with, and it kind of
hit me. I'm sure some of you listening are with
the company work somewhere where you started as a young intern,
started out of college, and if you're my age, maybe
(03:52):
you've been there fifteen twenty thirty years. However long that's
pretty impressive. Obviously, you know, anytime you work your way up,
but usually when you enter a company at twenty two,
twenty three, twenty four years old, if you're young, they
kind of look at you a little differently. It's like
sometimes I think that my parents' friends that you know
as you get older, you know, you saw me in
(04:14):
junior high and high school doing the dumbest shit, and
now I was like, you're married, you have a house,
you have a career. It's like, I can only imagine
one day when I'll look at like my kids friends
and then they're grown up and they're big. It's like,
how do you take them seriously. Maybe it's just as
time goes on, you just become kind of numb to it.
But I do understand from Tom Brady's perspective, like he
(04:36):
had a front row seat of the ugliness and now
a huge part of that clearly was the Jets, but
of the Sam Donald experience. And maybe it's hard for
Tom Brady to look at Sam Donald regardless of what
happened last year, and take him seriously, and that there's
an element of that, like a lot of you that
you know started a company then go somewhere else because
(04:57):
you want to be taken seriously, right, And sometimes that
helps that when you go somewhere else and they don't
look at you like, oh, I remember when he was
just an intern, right. And I also wonder if Tom
Brady who Kevin O'Connell was drafted to the Patriots, like
that's where he started his career. The relationship with Tom
(05:18):
and Kevin is probably kind of unique where it's not
just like football conversations, like these guys are friends and
they can have an honest conversation about the experience of
the last couple of weeks. Now, I'll never defend Sam
Darnold in that last game against Detroit, he did not
play well. There is no excuses for that performance. I
(05:39):
do think the playoff game is partly on the coach.
The coach did a really poor job when the offensive
line was getting smoked and he just refused to run
the ball. It was just I'm gonna pass, We're gonna
go down my way. And I think sometimes in football,
and Tom Brady knows this better than any anyone, is like,
we don't have a style. Well, pass if it's working,
(05:59):
we'll run it. If it's working, well, do whatever it
takes to move the ball, get first down. In score points.
We have no quote unquote offensive philosophy beside to try
to score more points than the other team. We will
do whatever is working. That's not normal. What Belichick and
Tom Brady was used to philosophically is basically abnormal to
(06:20):
everyone else in the NFL. Sean mcvaigh has a certain
style in which he likes to play. Same with Kyle shanahan,
same with Kevin O'Connell, same with Andy Reid, same with
Jim Harball. And they kind of win or lose playing
that style. Bill Belichick, you know, his operation offensively and
defensively had none. They did whatever it took to win
that individual game, and it's you know, wild go down
(06:41):
is one of the greatest coaches, is not the greatest
coach of all time, but I do think Tom Brady. Listen,
you know, we talk about this in scouting all the time,
and it's discussed a lot now because so many people
discuss the different the way people view, you know, biases
when it comes to viewing players, and previous experiences when
(07:02):
it comes to building teams, and listen, we're all a
product of the way we've been taught in our experiences.
And Tom Brady had a front row seat for the
ugly of Sam Darnold. And you know, he goes to Seattle.
I think he's turned the corner. I expect him to
be a solid player, but I do understand where Tom
Brady's coming from. You also don't tie yourself to a
younger player. You did trade a third round pick for Gino,
(07:25):
but if in a couple of years it doesn't work,
you're still in the mix, like of looking to draft
a quarterback, and it doesn't change anything. Though. I don't
think Seattle, who just drafted a quarterback in the third
round really viewed it that way. Either. It's not like
we're signing up for this guy and he's our quarterback
for the next five years. But listen, one thing that's
going to be clear is John Spytech has been in
(07:48):
the scouting profession a front row seat for guys that
know what they were doing for twenty plus years. Obviously,
Pete Carroll as a head coach has specific philosophies with operation.
It's going to be interesting to see Tom Brady's influence
when it comes moving forward, because what if they get
to the point Sam darnlds is an easy one if
your spike se clear, I'm not going to battle Tom
(08:08):
on this, even if I liked him. Whatever, cool, We'll
just go with Geno. Pete will be happy. It's but
what if we get to a point in like a
year where it's like Tom, I like this guy. I've
been scouting quarterbacks for a while. I understand you're the
greatest player of all time, but like, this is my profession.
I've had a front row seat, Like I got a
pretty good idea what works and what doesn't you know?
I've scouted every player in this league for a long
(08:28):
long time, and what Tom disagrees, and it's gonna be
fascinating to watch how that plays out over time. Because listen, Gino,
if you're John spy Tech, this year, to me, the
number one goal of your scouting department is we are
we are all in on looking at all these quarterbacks.
We're evaluating every single guy that's gonna get drafted, let alone,
(08:49):
all the guys are gonna be top you know, one
hundred prospects. All my scouts are gonna see him in person.
If I'm spy Tech, I would like to find ways
to see a handful of them in person over the
course of the year, so that they are going to
be scouting quarterbacks very, very heavily. You know it's Tom,
so I don't know. It'd be fascinating to watch it
play out. George Kittle had a comment on the bus
(09:13):
that I thought was pretty interesting and like most teams,
and you see this during hard knocks, right when a
rookie's introducing himself, and most teams have certain requirements what
your school is, where you're from, what your signing bonus is,
and Kittle said that the forty nine ers, when rookies
during OTA's introduced themselves to the team they added what
(09:34):
you made during NIL, and he said it was the
most eye opening experience he's ever had because he'd get
a guy that's an undrafted free agent that would like,
come up. My signing bonus is thirty thousand dollars. Last
year in NIL, I made seven hundred thousand dollars. George
is thinking, like, you made a bad decision. And listen,
(09:57):
the numbers that are thrown out there at seem like
a little crazy. Knowing people in the business. Obviously it's
been well reported. Now I feel pretty comfortable, like some
of the seven figure deals clearly are going to the quarterbacks,
but like good players at big programs, starting players were
making anywhere between half a million dollars to you know,
(10:19):
seven to eight hundred thousand dollars, and some of these
guys historically, if I was going to be a fourth
or fifth round pick, maybe I just didn't like school.
I don't blame them. I did not like school. I
thought about that today, Actually, how did I How could
someone who hated school as much as me somehow have
multiple degrees from a higher institution of learning, Like, it's
(10:41):
pretty crazy. Now, I cheated in high school. I hated school.
Because it was just so boring to me. Looking back,
there were some classes in college that would probably somewhat
interest me now, but I just remember sitting in class
and thinking, what a waste of time this all is,
Like this is so how is any of this gonna
(11:02):
help me? Like going to I remember taking chemistry in college.
I'm like, what the fuck is this gonna do for
me in five years in the real world? And the
answer was absolutely nothing, but I had to take it.
The point is a lot of athletes think like that.
Don't blame them, because if you're starting for the University
of Texas, for the University Alabama, for the University of Ohio,
State Oregon, whatever, a top thirty forty program, how could
(11:24):
you not think I'm gonna be in the NFL. Don't
blame them at all. And most of them are at
least going to get a shot, right if you're a starter,
several year starter in Division I college, especially the top programs,
probably at worst going to be an undrafted free agent
and just get an opportunity in a training camp. Even
if you get washed out pretty quick, you're gonna get
your shot. And a lot of guys would be like, listen,
(11:48):
I'm not gonna be a first round pick, but I
got a year of eligibility left. But I despise school
I'm leaving Nowadays, I've talked to more and more people that,
which is crazy to me now. Granted I graduate way
to college in eight I mean, the internet was big then,
but nowhere near what it is now. A lot of
these kids don't even go to actual tent like actual classes.
(12:11):
They take online classes. A ton of athletes never enter
the actual classroom of a college. I saw was a
Kanka Nipple, the Duke player that was just drafted, I
think fourth overall in the NBA draft, said one reason
that he chose Duke. I think it was concoc nimple.
(12:32):
It could have been someone else, but I was pretty
sure talking about Duke, like they actually the kids actually
went to class, you would actually interact where all these
other programs. One of their recruiting pitches was like, hey,
come here for a year or two, we'll pay a
lot of money before you go to the NBA, and
you will never actually have to go to a classroom.
Like that is fucking That wasn't even an option ten
(12:53):
years ago, let alone twenty years ago. And I do
think that more and more. And this is where the
draft was viewed as pretty bad the last couple of years.
After the first couple of rounds, especially last year, people
were like, after the fourth round, this thing is doesn't
feel as deep. Why would any guy on the fence
not go back to school. It's like, even if I
hate classes, I don't actually have to go to one.
(13:16):
And let's face it, you think I'm the guy actually
logging into the classroom. Of course not. And I'm making
six seven, eight hundred thousand dollars. Do you know how
much money that is just in general, let alone being
and listen, I'm pro these guys making coin. I've said
this to countless people. I mean, I saw it's one
(13:37):
thing like Cooper Flagg and reports are all over the place.
I saw something that he might have made twenty eight
million dollars his first year or just his nine months
at Duke, if that is true, Like, I can't even
imagine going from He didn't as necessarily go from nothing
because the companies were already trying to buy him. But
even if he's on retainer for hundreds of thousand dollars,
(13:58):
going from that to twenty eight million dollars. Again, if
that's true, let's not even use him. He's a bad examp.
Let's just use a starting quarterback, some guy in college
like cam Ward who was making decent money and then
all of a sudden, Miami gives him two or three
million dollars. Like, what could you possibly do with that money?
You're twenty three, You're just You're going to practice eating,
hanging out of your teammates the whole time. I don't
(14:19):
even know. I can't even fathom having that much there.
But I do know this more and more as these
kids see these examples of these guys that get drafted
either in the mid grounds or don't get drafted, and
basically their career might be over in a year and
only get fifty thousand, seventy five thousand, and thirty thousand
signing bonus. It's like I could have just come back
(14:39):
for one more year of seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
even if I'm an impressive guy and I'm going to
have a very lucrative career non football in my life.
I don't know what the starting salaries are in most industries,
but they aren't sniffing seven hundred thousand dollars, So you
do have to wonder the ramifications moving forward only gonna
(15:00):
help out and make college football better because better players
are gonna stay now. If you can be a cam Ward,
a Cooper Flag, a guy get drafted really high, you're
always gonna go pro because there's a lot more money there.
But some of these guys that aren't gonna go h
and they're just our question marks, Like you're not guaranteed anything.
It makes no sense for you not to go back
(15:22):
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(17:11):
not proud to say this, but Friday afternoon, we were
just kind of hanging out at the house and Maria
and I was like, you know what, let's throw on
the Aaron Rogers documentary. Now granted it was you know,
you know, Netflix. It wasn't like I had been thinking
about it. It had kind of popped up on the
Netflix when we were looking around, you know, right around
(17:33):
probably I think we had just had dinner, so it
was early. We had an early dinner on Friday, So
let's just let's just throw this one. See what it's
all about. And I didn't make it through the whole thing.
She uh, let's just say she was the driving force
of like, yeah, let's watch something else after about halfway
through episode two. And I had two big takeaways from
(17:56):
the documentary. One somewhat of a troubled soul and listen,
there are elements to all of us that we all
have issues. One thing I see a lot from my
generation is like the trauma we all had it. So, yeah,
being a parent's hard. Most parents try their hardest. There's
no handbook to do any of this for the most part,
(18:17):
like you could find an example in most human beings
if it's not like specific things, right, I'm just talking
most people's childhood, like the trauma we had to endure
of our parents, Like oh my god, it's like, yeah,
some people just kind of grow out of phases or
can figure things out for like, yeah, holding on to
(18:40):
this anger and this chip on my shoulder is something
that's not going to be that healthy or be able
to balance it. And there is a chip on Aaron
rodgers shoulder that you feel and listen only you know,
just like only I know what it was like to
grow up in my home, what it was like to
grow up in his home. And obviously no like laws
were broken or anything. It's like, yeah, it's like probably disagreed,
(19:03):
probably agreed with some things your parents force you to
do as a kid, and like still be harboring this
energy toward like his childhood. You kind of feel it,
like watching it, like there's this it's like he's this
troubled soul who really likes himself some Aaron Rodgers and
it was like Jesus and I My takeaway watching this
(19:23):
was like I just have a hard time seeing Tom
where Peyton kind of act like this, and a huge
element of it is, you know, part of this was shot.
It's he's single, no family, no kids, obviously, doesn't talk
to his family. Just feels like he's kind of a
(19:44):
lost soul with no family to lean on. And I
do think as you age, right, as you get older,
especially if you have the amount of disposable income which
you have in Aaron Rodgers situation, they have no nothing
to lean on like family. When you are someone that
is famous as him.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Is.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Potentially the only part of your circle that really can
keep some humility in your life. Obviously, your parents, your
brothers and sisters, your wife can say things to you
critically that no one else is saying. And obviously, once
you put children in that you are living for someone else.
There's a bigger purpose to your life. And you're just
(20:29):
watching Aaron Rodgers, You're like, this guy feels kind of
like a lost soul, a huge ego, who's just a
lost soul. Now, the one thing I will defend with
his parents from his perspective is the thing that happened
with his brother on The Bachelor when they left the
open seats, Like that is a complete loser move by
(20:50):
his parents. Even if you weren't happy with your child
and you weren't speaking to your child, there would be
a level of respect you would think. I know, I
would never do this to my future children. My parents
would never have done this to me. It's like, yeah,
we're not doing this, Like we can bring cameras into
the house for my other son dating this girl, But
to put those two seats you knew exactly what you're doing.
(21:13):
That's a loser fucking move. And I don't blame Aaron
from like double middle fingers now the rest of your life.
I don't know what else happened. It just feels like
there's all this negative energy surrounding his family that's forced
him into the kind of this weird life that I
see people on the internet right now or making fun of,
Like do we got a Manti Tale situation going on?
(21:34):
He's got a wedding ring, no one's seen his wife,
He's going on solo walks on the beach. I don't
recommend Enigma. If you'd never watch it, you're not missing much.
It's just kind of a the football part's kind of cool,
like I enjoyed, like Mike McCarthy's a big part of it.
Some of his former coaches are a big part of it.
(21:54):
But any part outside of football just feels a little weird.
And this is what I was saying, like about you know,
people making fun of them for the ayahuasca, for the
darkness retreats, Like you get made fun of for doing
that stuff, Like even if there are positive benefits, you know,
like listen, I don't journal, but clearly watch a lot
(22:18):
of successful people that like talk about on Instagram like,
probably journaling's pretty healthy. If I want on a couple
of my group chats that I'm on text message with
from friends from college or friends from the NFL, and
just started throwing out like here are my thoughts that
I've journaled over the last week, and they made fun
of me. I'd only have myself to blame. And I
(22:38):
just think when you've I mean, he's made hundreds of
millions of dollars. There's like a Lebron element to this.
What does he get made fun of all the time.
It's like Lebron lives in his own little world. Well,
who in Lebron's camp is gonna tell Lebron? No, who's
gonna tell Lebron, like, hey, that's kind of sounds stupid.
I just saw today he opted back into his contract.
He will have made five hundred and eighty million dollars
in his NBA career. So when you factor in the
(23:01):
amount of revenue he's generating for everyone in that little circle,
this is pretty business booman. And the one thing when
business is booman, you don't want to fuck with the
cash cow. So I just watched this enigma, thinking, this
is a bizarre experience. This is not even uncomfortable, but
there's an element of kind of sadness. There's an element
you feel for the guy, obviously the family element, but
(23:24):
it's like there's just like this egotistical factoring in, like
this resentment toward others. It's just it's a wild experience,
which yeah, wouldn't recommend. Other than that, I was thinking today,
like some of these guys I saw Florio put out
like a hot seat. Obviously every year we know on
(23:47):
the low end it's five. On the high end, it
could be like six or seven guys getting fired. That
some of these guys that are on summer break right now,
that have you know, one of the best jobs in
professional sports. You're the head coach of an NFL team.
Even if you're on the low end, you're making seven
eight million dollars. Think about Major League Baseball managers. Some
of these guys make like eight hundred thousand dollars. So
that's like what a running back coach makes with ten
(24:10):
years experience in the league. So it's an incredibly highly paid,
highly public, highly you know, you get a lot of
a lot of power that comes along with it. It's
a great gig. It's an intense gig. It's a stressful gig,
but it's one that not many people get the opportunity
to ever do. Even in the profession. Some of these
(24:30):
guys know they're screwed. I was thinking about if you're
Brian Dable, you head to vacation, you think my career,
my head coaching career at least is depending on Russell
Wilson throwing touchdowns. If I'm Shane Steiken and listen, I
one of the you know surprise predictions last week on
(24:50):
The Herd was Daniel Jones resurrec's his career what if
he doesn't? And if you're Shane Stike and you're thinking
a couple of years ago, I was known as a genius.
I helped save like Nick Sirianni's career because they gave
me the play calling duties. I helped make Jalen Hurts
a high end player offensively. I was known as a genius.
(25:11):
Hell two years ago, I was like, this guy won
nine games of Gardner mint. You now I'm potentially fighting
for my job and it's tied to Daniel Jones by
all reports and everyone in Indie. You could see this
coming from a mile away. He's going to be the
starting quarterback in Indianapolis. You can put that in sharpy
right now. Daniel Jones week one starting. That's who you're
(25:33):
depending on, man. I mean sometimes when your backs against
the wall, you just hope to get a lifeline. Right.
It's like you see some of these situations someone's like
floating that gets found by a coastguard in the water.
It's like, well, we had my boat capsize, but we
had this incredible blow up booie thing that I was
able to sit on. I had a flair. It wasn't easy,
(25:58):
but given the circumstance, it's saved my life. I don't
know if that's a situation here could get really really
ugly and obviously every year, you know, you have situations
that you didn't see coming. You know, everyone thinks Mike
McDaniels in major, major trouble. I think that team is
just not going to be very good. And I think
(26:21):
said this forever. You know, it's one of those jobs
like Brian Daball and Schaansdyke and if they were to
get fired, would be offensive coordinators immediately. Like look at
Dennis Allen, who was he was an embarrassing head coach.
Your boy picked the Saints last year. Shows you what
an idiot I am. But he'll never be a head
coach again. But the moment he's available, like three teams
(26:43):
are trying to hire him as a defensive coordinator and
he will be a defensive coordinator until he doesn't want
to work in the NFL. Well, a defensive coordinator like
Dennis Allen, he's making like two and a half three
four million dollars. He has none of the stress of
being a head coach. He's not in charge of the personnel.
All he has to do is coach defense and he's
making millions of dollars. He's making more than probably I
(27:04):
don't know of the roster and he's a failure as
a head coach. So Shane Sike and Brian Dable, these guys,
even Mike McDaniel, I'm sure would get hired to be
an offensive coordinator pretty quickly. Being a head coach pretty lucrative.
It gives you a lot of fame, gives you a
lot of money, gives you a lot of power. You
(27:25):
see at the front of the seat, you sit at
the front of the table, everyone's looking at you. You
make the hires. You have a huge influence. Even if
you're not in control of the draft, you have a
huge influence on the draft because what GM wants to
give a player to the head coach that doesn't want
to coach you, So say, you know, whether the front
offices in charge or not, you kind of have to
(27:46):
acquiesce a little bit to whoever your coaches are because
you want them to like the players. Because they don't
like the players, they can control that guy's trajectory and
all of a sudden, he's not playing and does you
no good.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high out team
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range of programming that goes beyond the game, from action
pack live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to
hard hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.
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(28:18):
makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive
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Speaker 1 (28:32):
Okay, mail bag time at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
is the Instagram. Fire in those dms. Gave your questions
answered on the show. Want to bang out a bunch?
If you guys, we're gonna do. I'mnid you probably later
in the week, So fire back in those dms at
John Middlecoff. You guys know the drill is your time
to shine in the offseason. This from Kevin Good question.
(28:53):
Did you see Big Bens take that he would take
Prime Rogers over Prime Mahomes? What are your thoughts? You
know what's funny is on my YouTube like I don't
even know page homepage, Roethlisberger podcast where he's I don't
know who his buddy is, young kid. It looks like
popped up today and I watched for a minute. It
(29:15):
was like Ben talking about his vacation. But I didn't
hear him say that. I saw the headline. Listen, you
could and this is what I noticed in Enigma. You
could make the argument, in the peak of his powers,
I'm talking regular season, is as good of a quarterback
that has ever played. I mean, Aaron was a total package.
(29:37):
He was smart, he was athletic, He had a huge arm,
He could make throws from the pocket, he could scramble
and make throws on the run, meaning he was a playmaker,
and he was incredibly accurate, and he could play in
all weather types like he was as good of an
individual player in the regular season that's ever played. Now,
(29:57):
I think if you wanted a nitpick early on the defense,
let him down. I do think he let them in
him down a little bit as he got older. But
this isn't like, yeah, I would take I think there's
something special about what Mahomes brings to the table. But like, listen,
you could argue like anything you wanted in sports, right
(30:22):
you go, Rogers, Well, you know hit Mike McCarthy was
as head coach. Don Capers was his defensive coordinator. You
put twenty six year old Aaron Rodgers with Andy freaking
Reid and Steve Spagnola and let like that operation, who
do you like you go? I think it's a fair argument.
Would Aaron Rodgers just have one super Bowl if in
(30:43):
the prime of his career, from like ten to fifteen,
he was on this Chiefs team? Now, would he have
gone to five to six super Bowls or five of
six Super Bowls? Yeah? I think you could make the
argument that you would rather have Mahomes in some of
these situations. Though Mahomes played a little like Rogers in
some of these big games, right, just don't make a mistake,
play smart, and his defense got the job done. Now,
(31:07):
Like listen, I would take Mahomes after watching Enigma. I
think there's some element of Mahomes that just resonates with
human beings more than Rogers. But I don't think it's
the craziest stake. I really don't. I think if you
put in his prime Aaron Rodgers and you give him
to Belichick in two thousand and one, or you give
him to Bill Walsh in nineteen eighty three, like I
(31:29):
think you're winning a lot of Super Bowls as well.
But that's not how we play the game, like I
don't think it's absurd of a take. Is like when
Darryl Morey used to call James Harden a better offensive
player than Michael Jordan. It's like, Daryl, you lost us,
like you lost the argument. And I also understand from
Big Ben's perspective. Plus, listen, we talked about Brady with
(31:49):
the bias for Sam Darnold. There's an element here off
like Ben played against Rogers, so how fucking good he was.
He's like, I'm Big Ben, I'm going to the Hall
of Fame. I'm one of the best quarter back to
my generation. And this guy's way better than me. And
I've won two Super Bowls. I'm not a better player
in this guy. So I get it when you see
something like you're not gonna convince me there's anyone better
(32:11):
at sports talk and what they do than Coward. Why
I've got a front row seat. I saw it last week.
I've listened forever, I've podcasted with them, and then I
saw him work live on television. I'm like, that's that's
as good as it gets. It's crazy how talented this
guy is. And you know, I think part of any
of our experiences are just what we see right, and
(32:33):
I think there's an element of that with Ben with Aaron.
You forgot Jalen Hurts in your top ten on your
last pot. Please tell me that's the name you're missing,
Jalen Hurts the top ten quarterback. I would agree. Sometimes
we're doing this stuff on the fly. H Okay, this
from Matt. My twin brother and I are having a
debate on who will be the better team this upcoming season,
(32:54):
the Broncos or the Raiders. With Peyton bow second year
in the system, with a better run game and elite defense,
I think the Broncos are sneaky good and could win
a playoff game or two. My twin thinks the Raiders
win a playoff game. That there's no way the Broncos
at one of the best defense in the league. They
led the league in sacks. Their offense is gonna be better.
(33:16):
Their quarterback through twenty nine touchdowns last year. They already
have an established culture operation. Pete Carroll's never coached these guys.
Even if they vastly improve, there's no way you could
objectively pick the Raiders going into this season over the Broncos. Now,
if you're a Raider fan, I totally get it, but like,
(33:37):
based on all the evidence we have the roster, you
would have to take the Broncos, so I would. I
think it's not inconceivable that the Broncos or the Chargers
win the division, right, I mean, are the Chiefs gonna
win it fifteen straight years? They're gonna have one of
(33:58):
these years where just they win eleven games and someone
in their division wins thirteen. This might be it. Two questions.
My partner and I are looking to plan a golf
spa trip. Do you have any recommendations in Scottsdale? Furthermore,
how do you see the Jets doing this year? I
would say two hotels that jump out to me that
(34:18):
also have golf courses would be the Desert Ridge Hotel.
It's in North Scottsdale. I stayed there years ago when
I was kind of looking at trying to buy property here.
I came out here for like ten days where I
met my future wife. It's sitting, especially if you have kids.
It's got like a lazy river. It's it's a cool hotel.
(34:39):
I think they got twenty seven holes of golf behind it.
Jack Nicholas nick Valdo developed it. It's a cool property,
and then the Phoenician, same type thing. I would imagine both.
I'm not a big I'm not a big spot d
A guy. I mean I like a good steam room
in a sauna, but I've never got a spat Da here.
But I would imagine both. Have you know the infrastructure
(35:01):
there for spot A you have to check, but I'd
say Desert Ridge or the Phoenician. Also, just like I
said golf, the Jets, I think they're not going to
be very good if I had to bet, like more
than likely they're selling off some of their parts by
the trade deadline, and this is a reset. You know,
it'll be fascinating. You know, Breis Hall has already been
on the trading block. I think the sauce thing is
(35:23):
pretty fascinating. I had a scout in the league that
told me, not even a scout, I mean he's like
an assistant GM that said, listen, those first two years
they let sauce, they weren't calling pis. He got to
be as physical as he wanted, and when he's tall,
long corner, he could fucking maul you. Last year, what
happened they started throwing the flag. Sauce is not a
(35:45):
four to three. He's not Derek Stingley. So if they
don't let him maul you at the line, like, he's
not just going to be able to mirror you in
the hip pocket. So it's going to be fascinating, you know.
You know, his first two years like all pro So
if you're sauce like thinking, give me one hundred million dollars,
and if you're the Jets, I could not do that.
I'd have to let it play out a little bit.
(36:06):
And then if it plays out and not the right
way and you're not going to give him an extension,
you know, what's his market? He does fit some specific
type defenses. You know, I don't know. He's going to
be a fascinating case study. I think the Jets are
just not gonna be good, and not because you know,
Aaron Glenn's impressive guy, but fields your starting quarterback. A
(36:29):
lot of just unknown, you know, with just how last
year went, how these guys are going to bounce back
or I don't know. I don't have high hopes for
the kind of the squad. I was listening to the
New Heights podcast a few days ago where Jason Kelsey
started comparing the Chiefs rookie Josh Simmons physically to players
(36:50):
like Jason Peters and Trent Williams. However, do you think
he truly will be able to be an above average
left tackle for the Chiefs like Eric Fisher Or do
you think the Chiefs a line will be good without
a player like Joe Touty. I didn't listen to the podcast,
but I obviously, you know, do this for a living.
(37:12):
I saw the headlines of Jason. One thing's pretty clear
is Jason I don't know what is you know, if
he has an official title, but like he watched his
offensive lineman for Howie and he likes doing it, and
I would imagine how he's like this guy could be
there when we draft right because of the injury. And
(37:34):
you know, the Eagles probably were interested anytime a guy
like I mean, look, they took John Campbell, who also
liked Josh Simmons. The only reason he was there because
the injury. Josh Simmons, before he got injured, was going
in the top ten. Now when you compare, you know,
Jason Peters was a tight end in college. Trent Williams
went fourth overall. I think both those guys share two
(37:57):
characteristics of physically there aren't many human beings like either one.
You know, both guys could be three hundred and fifty
pounds and they still move around as a foot athlete
like they're a linebacker. They are elite athletes. They are
just in this body type that. I mean, a small
small percentage of human beings are on the planet that
(38:18):
have six' five the girth to be three hundred and
forty three hundred fifty pounds and then athletically move like.
That but both, guys when they're right physically in their,
Primes trent will see if he's still in. It Obviously
jason's prime ended years ago or. NONE i, mean they
were as good as it gets at left. Tackle you.
(38:39):
Know Josh, SIMMONS i THINK i think the scary thing
for him would be, that what didn't he tear his? Potella? What,
yeah that's. Now, listen my dad taurrest potella WHEN i
was in junior high MAYBE i was in elementary. School
it would have been mid to late. Nineties there's a
(39:02):
man in his, fifties So i'm not comparing him to an,
athlete but it's a very very serious. Injury it's not
an acl it's not Even achilles it's not Like Tommy
John like it's some injuries like, that you're never quite the.
Same AND i think it shows you because most people
would agree him coming out even more Than Will. Campbell
(39:26):
this guy physically had the highest. Upside like if anyone
was gonna be just a seven Time pro bowler at left,
tackle it was gonna be this. Guy if he had
torn HIS, acl not torn his, patella there's no way
he makes it to The. Chiefs none would never have
made it that. Far he would have gone probably still
(39:47):
in the top. Fifteen even if someone's, Like i'm red cheering,
him it's worth. It but you, know the paateella thing is.
Scary my dad's kned never was the. Same, honestly when
he got into his mid to late six he should
have got a knee. Replacement this guy's how Old's Josh.
Simmons he's twenty two years, old SO i, mean, obviously
(40:09):
you know your body recovers. Differently if everything's fine and
he just comes out of it like a player That
terris acl breaks the, leg, whatever The chiefs are going
to have one of the best players in the draft for,
sure because, physically like this guy was At Ohio state
for a. Reason it was a big deal when he got.
INJURED i always like to look at, like you, know
(40:30):
blue chip guys like, this if you just go To
Josh simmons', rivals like if you just go to his
uh what he was like coming out of high. School
he was not the craziest recruit. EVER i guess Four
star originally signed With San Diego. State then obviously blew
(40:51):
up actually started At San Diego. STATE i actually didn't
know that started At San Diego state and then transferred
To Ohio. State it so this guy's transfer portal went
To Helix High. School you guys want to play a,
little uh a little? Trivia you know who else went
To Helix High? School, well given them Only i'm on
the podcast all Answer Alex smith And Reggie. Bush it's
(41:14):
IN i Think North San diego is. Considered this is
a good signing for The San Diego. State that's the
sad part about the fucking transfer. Portal it's, like You're
San Diego, state you Get Josh, simmons Who Jason kelsey's
comparing To Trent williams And Jason, peters and then all
of a, sudden the guy ends up At Ohio. State
how is the little guy supposed to Compete Fresno, State
(41:37):
San Diego, State Boise. State they get Their Josh, simmons
and then all of a, sudden two years, later the
guy's At Ohio. State AND i don't Blame Josh simmons
for going To Ohio. State i'd gone To Ohio state.
Too can you Imagine Josh? Simmons like the transfer portal's
got some good, players there can't be many. Guys this
guy's a future first round pike at left tackle entering
(41:58):
the transfer portal from a Smaller DIVISION i. PROGRAM i
can't even imagine how many people are coming after that. Guy,
okay this is From. Richie congratulations on your, Wedding congrats
on filling in for The. Herd guys giving me a
lot of. Congrats why do you think THE ufc AND
mma is not discussed more in major sports networks like fs?
(42:21):
One look at this. WEEKEND ufc had a major, EVENT
ufc three, seventeen WHICH i believe was stack with great
fights and fan favorite. Fighters the event also delivered with
many finishes via tkoko or. SUBMISSION i guess that would
prefer shows Like The herd And First things first to
discuss MORE ufc content over topics regarding THE La, lakers
(42:43):
the Irrelevant Dallas cowboys flagles, fly or THE. WNBA i
would like to know your opinion of THE ufc And
Dana white in how mainstream can you envision the company?
Growing it's a pretty good. QUESTION i do think there
are two elements of this. One if you if You're
(43:06):
colin Or nick or, whoever what First first, take the
majority ninety percent of what you're going to talk is
going to be football and. Basketball and you, know depending
on the, show Like collin's probably seventy, football seventy five
football and twenty five. Basketball some of the other, shows
maybe you Know First takes fifty to, fifty, right they
(43:27):
talk a ton OF. NBA i would Imagine Nick wright's
show talks a lot OF nba. Two but, like you,
know that, works like that's a winning. Formula not every
guy is going to be in THE, ufc, RIGHT i
would say THE, ufc like tennis or, golf for you,
KNOW f one OR, nascar baseball has become very niche
(43:49):
in the sense of people following it very very. Intently
so IF i just, like, hey here's a topic On
Steph curry or here's a topic On Jalen. Hurts most
sports fans are going to be able to follow. Along
i'm a good. EXAMPLE i have a lot of respect
for the. Business that The Fertida, brothers That Dana. White
(44:10):
WHEN i went to Cal, Pauly Chuck lydell was becoming
a rocket. Ship he was a Cal pauly. Grat he
trained in Cal. Pauly he would or In San Luis.
Obispo he would show up at the frat parties WHEN
i was in college and like steal the hottest, chick
like it was a big deal because we were in
that little. World but LIKE ufc the other, NIGHT i didn't,
(44:31):
watch not BECAUSE i don't respect the. Fighters i'm just
not that into it for whatever, reason, Right AND i
Know Daniel cormier seems like an awesome. Dude Rogan ank
like their whole operation is really really high. Level but
it still is in terms of. One anytime you get
pay per, view you have a barrier to entry where
(44:53):
these other sports are just they're not technically, free right
because cable box or. Whatever but for the most, part
like it's it's easy to watch AN nba playoff game
or AN nfl game or a college football. Game it
is a little more challenging to watch. That AND i
Think Caitlin clark's a good. Example she became a story
(45:13):
on the main networks before everyone was watching, her but
then it drove people to. Watch but, like you'd have
to be pretty passionate to do that and hope that people.
WOULD a huge part of these television shows is, ratings
so you do things that you know will. Work so
(45:34):
Like colin knows that if me and him and he
was really cool, Too like he did a couple of
segments where it was a back and forth with. Me
he didn't have to do, that and we, CHOSE i
mean he, chose but like you want to do HIS nfl, Segments, like,
yeah he knows it's gonna. Work you, know IF i
was a former baseball, scout we wouldn't do like my
five favorite players In Major League, baseball, right we wouldn't do.
(45:56):
That And fox has Some Major league. Baseball SO i
think it's a long winded way of saying. ONE i
think it's still in a weird, way not that, mainstream
even though it's a very lucrative operation now And Dana
white's really famous and some of you. KNOW i do
think If connor was still, involved like you, CAN i
do golf on this medium one BECAUSE i love, IT
(46:19):
i follow. IT i, mean Today i'm Watching Max grazerman
go at it with this dude From South africa And
Jake napp and live on the other. Television but that's not.
Normal AND i know that WHEN i do go low
tomorrow that most people probably haven't watched The Rocket Mortgage.
TOURNAMENT i don't blame you wouldn't watch it either IF
i had something else to, do so you know. That
(46:41):
it's a little like that WITH. Ufc but If Tiger
woods had just played in The Rocket mortgage and won
The Rocket, mortgage you could talk about it and people
would follow, along just like If connor McGregor were still
fighting like someone that, famous you could talk about it
and people would fall. Along it's, why like When Jake
paul fought if he wanted to Fight Mike, tyson like
(47:02):
people kind of pay attention in a sport like, that
the individual. Firepower you need a superstar to. Breakthrough AND
i don't even know If chuck was quite that he
was close and then they've had you, KNOW i would
Say connor's AND i think Even dana, said, right he's
the most important fighters it's ever come along in terms
of mainstream popularity and. Fame like golf was around well
(47:25):
Before Tiger wood showed. Up he changed the sport in
terms OF i love country. Music Without Garth, brooks country
music doesn't become as mainstream as it became the last
twenty five. Years change the fucking game for. Everybody open
the floodgates for guys Like tim, McGraw Kenny, Jesney Jason,
Eldan Luke bryan to become worth hundreds of millions of.
(47:45):
Dollars before, that it was kind of like redneck honky,
tonk you, know VERY i would, say a little niche,
music and it no longer. Is you could argue now
it's the most popular music. Going and a big reason
for that happened WHEN i was a kid With Garth
brooks in the. Nineties that broke through that whether you
like country music or you didn't like country, music you
(48:07):
Followed Garth, brooks AND i think individual sports have elements of.
That Tiger woods was THAT i would imagine back in
like the fifties and Say Arnold palmer was like. That
we've seen that in, tennis like you, Know Pete sampras
was way better Than Andre. Agassy Andre agassy was the
more important player in terms of like commercial. Thing SO
(48:28):
i don't know IF i specifically BECAUSE i don't know
if there's a specific, Answer LIKE i Think colin could
probably answer that question like, no it just doesn't. WORK
i also think you're talking to an audience of, LIKE
i don't know how many people buy the pay per
view BECAUSE i love. Sports it's like the majority of
things THAT i. WATCH i don't order the pay per.
Views AND i like. FIGHTING i like watching people get
(48:50):
their ass, kids, though there was something one of the
guys that got. KOed he got knocked. Out dude hit
him right across the. Face he's out as he hits the.
GROUND i bet his head hits the canvas also knocks him.
Out he is. OUT i, mean it's it's clear the
(49:11):
guy's done. This dude jumps on, him hammer punches his
face before the ref could get. THERE i like. VIOLENCE
i am pro violence felt a little. UNNECESSARY i, was
Like jesus felt uncomfortable watching in a good, way but
it was had. Hurt, Okay, Hey, JOHN i think your
(49:48):
criticisms of The dolphins are reasonable considering they're coming off
an eight nine. Season, however TO a led the league
in a completion percentage seventy two percent last. YEAR i
also think they had a pretty good. Draft if THEIR
o line is even, AVERAGE i think they will go
back to their twenty three. Form they also were missing
seven starters last. Year ramsey can get them a trade,
package can, he, though because if he, could he'd be.
(50:10):
GONE i don't know If jalen get you a trade.
Package maybe we're all just overlooking a scenario where they
actually are decent the. Years my guess is nine to. Eight,
YEAH i Just i'm betting on them to. SUCK i.
Am i'm with. YOU i Think tua gets unfairly, criticized
like he's not as bad AS i think the way
(50:31):
he's talked, about but can't play outdoors late in the.
Season we know that's a, fact and then the injury
risks are just pretty. High is Scary terry A hall
of fame on A hall Of fame? Run he's had
a thousand yard season every single year since he's been
in the, league but no one talks about. It if
(50:51):
he continues for another four, years is he A hall Of.
FAMER i think sometimes you, know The hall Of fame,
talk you can accumulate enough numbers to be in The
hall Of, fame and, Listen terry McLaurin is a really good,
player and like you, said he's been from twenty eighty,
seven eleven hundred seventy, seven one, thousand seventy, seven eleven
(51:12):
hundred seventy, nine one, thousand eighty, two one. Thousand WHEN
i Watched terry, McLaurin i don't Think hall Of, famer
Right like WHEN i Watch Justin, JEFFERSON i Think hall Of.
Fame Jamar, CHASE i Think hall Of, fame Which terry
McLaurin really, good whatever, happened just, like this guy's just.
Good this guy's a good. PLAYER i feel like THE
Nfl hall Of fame is kind of becoming THE Nba
hall Of, fame OR i guess it's not even THE
(51:33):
Nba fall Of. Fame it's the Basketball hall Of fame
where everyone kind of gets. In or it's LIKE i
like The hall Of fames to be, like, Yeah Joe,
Montana Jerry, Rice Tom, Brady, Peyton, Manning Kobe, bryant Shack
Lebron steph like The Deon sanders the best of the.
Best But terry mclaurin's a Good i'd want him on my.
Team does anyone think And i'm not trying to shit
(51:55):
on your take, here But terry McLaurin is not A
hall Of famer to? Me does that mean if he
has another five years playing like he's, playing who. KNOWS
i wouldn't put it past. Him but LIKE i just think,
sometimes Like Aaron, donald you, Know Trent. Williams hall Of
famers should be pretty obvious that there should. Be you
(52:15):
should know right. Away it shouldn't be an acquired. Taste
should not be an acchoir LIKE i used to WHEN
i was a. KID i didn't like. Mustard NOW i
like mustard all my. Sandwiches used to hate. Tomatoes NOW
i can't eat a sandwich without. Tomatoes you should know right.
Away you know, WHAT i never turned down. PIZZA i
liked it my whole. Life it's LIKE i watched this,
player like this guy is. ELITE i don't, like there
(52:39):
can be a there can be a level of player
that between like not trying to replace but also not
going to The hall Of. Fame and that's listen sports
debate talk has kind of created, this but it's. GOOD i,
Mean i'm not putting that Much. Empa he's two time pro,
(53:02):
bowler check a, team all. PRO i mean his career
high in catches is his second year eighty. Seven not
all his, fault BUT i mean he's like averages essentially
seventy eight catches a, year one thousand, yards like four
or five, touchdowns which is fucking. Good he's gonna make
(53:23):
one hundred and fifty million dollars playing in THE. Nfl,
okay last, Question this is From Cam. Cameron maybe he's
the fan in, me but, WHATEVER i Hear baker grouped
with guys Like gino And, DARNOLD i feel like it's.
Disrespectful he had decent numbers In cleveland and since Joining
tampa has arguably been a top eight to nine guy
(53:44):
with the weapons he has this. Year do you think
he can perform well enough to be consistently talked about
as a top tier guy in the book that's already been.
WRITTEN i agree comparing him To Gino smith is. Unfair
he is a better player objectively Than Geno, Smith like
Even gino's good, games like you, know a lot of
bad games and big Moments gino. Solid like to, Me
(54:06):
gino is your, classic like somewhere between thirteen and, seventeen
and over the course of the year has good and,
bad but like serious, limitations but mix up for it with.
Leadership he's got a big, arm so he can make
some big. Plays but like you never Watched gino like
it's a top seven. Quarterback like you Have baker games
that are like is this one of the best players
in the. League and him And sam were on the same,
(54:28):
team now both of them different world to, Go baker
beat him. Out now you could argue that they were
gonna Start baker no matter what still. Happened i'm with.
YOU i Think. BAKER i would expect a huge year From.
BAKER i, MEAN i Like tampa to win that. DIVISION
i Like baker to throw thirty five to forty, touchdowns
(54:49):
AND i think he's going to be well established as
competing to be one of the best quarterbacks in THE.
Nfc like one thing with THE afc is you have
like all time great, players Right Mahomes hall Of, Fame
Lamar hall Of, Fame Josh Allen hall Of, Fame Joe
burrow probably gonna Be hall Of, Fame herbert fucking. Good
but you got big time quarterbacks in THE. Nfc you
(55:12):
Got Okay jaden incredible rookie. Year see back it, up
WHICH i expect him to. Do i'm not down on.
Him you, know you Got jalen who everyone, Loves Jalen
hurst after The Super. Bowl there were times last season
where people are, like what the hell is going on
with the pass? Game jayalen could be a frustrating player at.
Times obviously very talented dual threat, guy you Know. Goff
(55:35):
his good games look damn good in The, dome but
it can have games where you're, Like, god that was pretty.
Bad it's not Exactly murderer's row in THE. Nfc stafford's
thirty eight years. Old you Know, purdy depending on who you,
ask either's awesome or. Sucks so the Competition baker has to,
go especially in his own. Division you Got, bryce you Got,
(55:55):
penix and some times The. South you know what's, Crazy
it happens to me every time you Got, tampa you
Have New, orleans you Have carolina And. Atlanta you got
so you've Got, Tyler, Shock pennix And. Bryce and there's
a Chance tampa wins that division by a couple of.
(56:15):
Games what If atlanta doesn't, win like goes like eight
to nine or seven and, ten Is Arthur blank going
to fire? Everybody that thing could get, weird and that
thing can get weird. Fast But i'm with. YOU i
Think baker has established himself as as you, know one
of the big guns definitely in the in THE. Nfc
(56:37):
and that's how Many you're only playing FOUR afc? Games,
WELL i guess it flip. Flops maybe you're playing five this.
Year but let's just let's just end with. This let's
just pull Up tampa. Schedule who they win ten and
seven last, year so they opened with The, falcons like
them to win that game at The, Texans, Jets eagles At,
(56:59):
Seahawks niners At, lions At, Saints patriots At, bills At rams. Schedules,
actually they got some tough games because they play THE Nfc.
West if they could just kind of be around five,
hundred the last six to seven games get kind of. Easy, Cardinals, Saints, Falcons, Panthers, Dolphins.
(57:24):
Panthers so if they can be around like six and,
six five and, five they got a stretch here where
they could take advantage of. It but they got they
got some tough. Games early At houston's not an easy.
Game That's monday night. Football looks like it might be
A monday night football. Doubleheader get The eagles at, home
(57:48):
have heat on their side At, seattle that's not. Easy
then you gotta fly all the way home to play
The niners the next. Week then you gotta go At,
detroit which is A monday night. Game that's a Good
monday night football. Game to, me where they really got
to take advantage of is they just got to dominate
within their. Division AND i don't see why they, Won't
(58:09):
LIKE i would, say what they do last year in the,
division they went four and. TWO i, MEAN i think
if they go four and two, again they're probably maybe
they're a nine win team this. Year but if they
go five and, ONE i, MEAN i don't see how
they wouldn't, be you, know a ten win. Team the
(58:29):
volume
The volume. What is going on, everybody? How are we doing?
John Middlecoff three and now podcast? It is a Sunday afternoon.
(00:21):
I actually recorded a podcast earlier today with Colin. You
can go find that on all his feeds YouTube as well,
and I thought, you know what, let's do another podcast
because we're gonna break for Fourth of July here later
this week, so let's bang out a couple podcasts early
in the week. We'll do some football talk. Tom Brady
didn't want Darnold. I watched Enigma at least a couple
(00:42):
episodes till my wife was like, turn it off. The
Aaron Rodgers documentary. I listened to a podcast with George Kittle,
who had some interesting comments on the nil. We're also
gonna do a big mail bag at John Middlecoff is
the Instagram Fire in those dms. I'm gonna need you, guys.
You this offseason. July is a big month for you.
(01:02):
So at John middlecop fire in those dms, get your
questions answered on the show. We will interact with the
people over the course of the next month because we
need you, and we'll have podcasts. I'll probably do a
golf podcast tomorrow and then maybe one more football podcast
later this week, so make sure you're fire in those dms.
Other than that, you know the deal. If you listen
(01:24):
on this on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to
three and Out. Obviously everything up on YouTube as well.
But before we dive into any football, you know, I
gotta tell you about my friends, my partners, and the
official ticketing up of this podcast. Game Time best in
the business. You guys, want to go to what is
more Fourth of July than baseball? You know? I remember
(01:45):
we used to have a big baseball tournament the little
league where I was growing up. You want to go
to one of these baseball games. Do you live in
a major league city if you want to attend one
of these games? Have some beers, enjoy the sun, eat
some peanuts. This is the time of year to do it,
get some so it's really enjoyable. Take a friend, take
take take a loved one and go enjoy yourself and
(02:06):
do it on us. So here's the thing, Game Time
everything from concerts to comedy shows to obviously football season.
I saw today. I don't know Fox or NFL or
someone put it out. We're ten Sundays away till the
National Football League, So not that far. It feels far,
but once you get to July fourth, it's it's truly
right around the corner. So you want to get a
(02:26):
football football tickets for the fall. Take the guest work
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take as the lowest price guaranteed. Mike Silver, the longtime
(02:47):
reporter slash writer wrote for Sports Illustrated in its heyday,
just put out a new book on kind of the
Shanahan Clan. I actually just hit me, like, I think
I'm gonna try to read a couple of books this July.
That's a goal of mine. Let's read two books this July.
Not listen. I do a lot of audio books, but like,
(03:08):
sit there and read no phone, just enjoy the book,
even if it's on MyPad. Just let's do. And that's
one of them. I need to download it later tonight
for the holiday. And Mike Silver, who's pretty dialed in
through something out last week that Tom Brady was the
driving force in making sure the Raiders were not interested
in it, were signed or went down the path of
(03:31):
Sam Darnold, and obviously they didn't. They Actually he goes
to Seattle that they get Geno Smith that Pete Carroll,
you know, had a history with, and it kind of
hit me. I'm sure some of you listening are with
the company work somewhere where you started as a young intern,
started out of college, and if you're my age, maybe
(03:52):
you've been there fifteen twenty thirty years. However long that's
pretty impressive. Obviously, you know, anytime you work your way up,
but usually when you enter a company at twenty two,
twenty three, twenty four years old, if you're young, they
kind of look at you a little differently. It's like
sometimes I think that my parents' friends that you know
as you get older, you know, you saw me in
(04:14):
junior high and high school doing the dumbest shit, and
now I was like, you're married, you have a house,
you have a career. It's like, I can only imagine
one day when I'll look at like my kids friends
and then they're grown up and they're big. It's like,
how do you take them seriously. Maybe it's just as
time goes on, you just become kind of numb to it.
But I do understand from Tom Brady's perspective, like he
(04:36):
had a front row seat of the ugliness and now
a huge part of that clearly was the Jets, but
of the Sam Donald experience. And maybe it's hard for
Tom Brady to look at Sam Donald regardless of what
happened last year, and take him seriously, and that there's
an element of that, like a lot of you that
you know started a company then go somewhere else because
(04:57):
you want to be taken seriously, right, And sometimes that
helps that when you go somewhere else and they don't
look at you like, oh, I remember when he was
just an intern, right. And I also wonder if Tom
Brady who Kevin O'Connell was drafted to the Patriots, like
that's where he started his career. The relationship with Tom
(05:18):
and Kevin is probably kind of unique where it's not
just like football conversations, like these guys are friends and
they can have an honest conversation about the experience of
the last couple of weeks. Now, I'll never defend Sam
Darnold in that last game against Detroit, he did not
play well. There is no excuses for that performance. I
(05:39):
do think the playoff game is partly on the coach.
The coach did a really poor job when the offensive
line was getting smoked and he just refused to run
the ball. It was just I'm gonna pass, We're gonna
go down my way. And I think sometimes in football,
and Tom Brady knows this better than any anyone, is like,
we don't have a style. Well, pass if it's working,
(05:59):
we'll run it. If it's working, well, do whatever it
takes to move the ball, get first down. In score points.
We have no quote unquote offensive philosophy beside to try
to score more points than the other team. We will
do whatever is working. That's not normal. What Belichick and
Tom Brady was used to philosophically is basically abnormal to
(06:20):
everyone else in the NFL. Sean mcvaigh has a certain
style in which he likes to play. Same with Kyle shanahan,
same with Kevin O'Connell, same with Andy Reid, same with
Jim Harball. And they kind of win or lose playing
that style. Bill Belichick, you know, his operation offensively and
defensively had none. They did whatever it took to win
that individual game, and it's you know, wild go down
(06:41):
is one of the greatest coaches, is not the greatest
coach of all time, but I do think Tom Brady. Listen,
you know, we talk about this in scouting all the time,
and it's discussed a lot now because so many people
discuss the different the way people view, you know, biases
when it comes to viewing players, and previous experiences when
(07:02):
it comes to building teams, and listen, we're all a
product of the way we've been taught in our experiences.
And Tom Brady had a front row seat for the
ugly of Sam Darnold. And you know, he goes to Seattle.
I think he's turned the corner. I expect him to
be a solid player, but I do understand where Tom
Brady's coming from. You also don't tie yourself to a
younger player. You did trade a third round pick for Gino,
(07:25):
but if in a couple of years it doesn't work,
you're still in the mix, like of looking to draft
a quarterback, and it doesn't change anything. Though. I don't
think Seattle, who just drafted a quarterback in the third
round really viewed it that way. Either. It's not like
we're signing up for this guy and he's our quarterback
for the next five years. But listen, one thing that's
going to be clear is John Spytech has been in
(07:48):
the scouting profession a front row seat for guys that
know what they were doing for twenty plus years. Obviously,
Pete Carroll as a head coach has specific philosophies with operation.
It's going to be interesting to see Tom Brady's influence
when it comes moving forward, because what if they get
to the point Sam darnlds is an easy one if
your spike se clear, I'm not going to battle Tom
(08:08):
on this, even if I liked him. Whatever, cool, We'll
just go with Geno. Pete will be happy. It's but
what if we get to a point in like a
year where it's like Tom, I like this guy. I've
been scouting quarterbacks for a while. I understand you're the
greatest player of all time, but like, this is my profession.
I've had a front row seat, Like I got a
pretty good idea what works and what doesn't you know?
I've scouted every player in this league for a long
(08:28):
long time, and what Tom disagrees, and it's gonna be
fascinating to watch how that plays out over time. Because listen, Gino,
if you're John spy Tech, this year, to me, the
number one goal of your scouting department is we are
we are all in on looking at all these quarterbacks.
We're evaluating every single guy that's gonna get drafted, let alone,
(08:49):
all the guys are gonna be top you know, one
hundred prospects. All my scouts are gonna see him in person.
If I'm spy Tech, I would like to find ways
to see a handful of them in person over the
course of the year, so that they are going to
be scouting quarterbacks very, very heavily. You know it's Tom,
so I don't know. It'd be fascinating to watch it
play out. George Kittle had a comment on the bus
(09:13):
that I thought was pretty interesting and like most teams,
and you see this during hard knocks, right when a
rookie's introducing himself, and most teams have certain requirements what
your school is, where you're from, what your signing bonus is,
and Kittle said that the forty nine ers, when rookies
during OTA's introduced themselves to the team they added what
(09:34):
you made during NIL, and he said it was the
most eye opening experience he's ever had because he'd get
a guy that's an undrafted free agent that would like,
come up. My signing bonus is thirty thousand dollars. Last
year in NIL, I made seven hundred thousand dollars. George
is thinking, like, you made a bad decision. And listen,
(09:57):
the numbers that are thrown out there at seem like
a little crazy. Knowing people in the business. Obviously it's
been well reported. Now I feel pretty comfortable, like some
of the seven figure deals clearly are going to the quarterbacks,
but like good players at big programs, starting players were
making anywhere between half a million dollars to you know,
(10:19):
seven to eight hundred thousand dollars, and some of these
guys historically, if I was going to be a fourth
or fifth round pick, maybe I just didn't like school.
I don't blame them. I did not like school. I
thought about that today, Actually, how did I How could
someone who hated school as much as me somehow have
multiple degrees from a higher institution of learning, Like, it's
(10:41):
pretty crazy. Now, I cheated in high school. I hated school.
Because it was just so boring to me. Looking back,
there were some classes in college that would probably somewhat
interest me now, but I just remember sitting in class
and thinking, what a waste of time this all is,
Like this is so how is any of this gonna
(11:02):
help me? Like going to I remember taking chemistry in college.
I'm like, what the fuck is this gonna do for
me in five years in the real world? And the
answer was absolutely nothing, but I had to take it.
The point is a lot of athletes think like that.
Don't blame them, because if you're starting for the University
of Texas, for the University Alabama, for the University of Ohio,
State Oregon, whatever, a top thirty forty program, how could
(11:24):
you not think I'm gonna be in the NFL. Don't
blame them at all. And most of them are at
least going to get a shot, right if you're a starter,
several year starter in Division I college, especially the top programs,
probably at worst going to be an undrafted free agent
and just get an opportunity in a training camp. Even
if you get washed out pretty quick, you're gonna get
your shot. And a lot of guys would be like, listen,
(11:48):
I'm not gonna be a first round pick, but I
got a year of eligibility left. But I despise school
I'm leaving Nowadays, I've talked to more and more people that,
which is crazy to me now. Granted I graduate way
to college in eight I mean, the internet was big then,
but nowhere near what it is now. A lot of
these kids don't even go to actual tent like actual classes.
(12:11):
They take online classes. A ton of athletes never enter
the actual classroom of a college. I saw was a
Kanka Nipple, the Duke player that was just drafted, I
think fourth overall in the NBA draft, said one reason
that he chose Duke. I think it was concoc nimple.
(12:32):
It could have been someone else, but I was pretty
sure talking about Duke, like they actually the kids actually
went to class, you would actually interact where all these
other programs. One of their recruiting pitches was like, hey,
come here for a year or two, we'll pay a
lot of money before you go to the NBA, and
you will never actually have to go to a classroom.
Like that is fucking That wasn't even an option ten
(12:53):
years ago, let alone twenty years ago. And I do
think that more and more. And this is where the
draft was viewed as pretty bad the last couple of years.
After the first couple of rounds, especially last year, people
were like, after the fourth round, this thing is doesn't
feel as deep. Why would any guy on the fence
not go back to school. It's like, even if I
hate classes, I don't actually have to go to one.
(13:16):
And let's face it, you think I'm the guy actually
logging into the classroom. Of course not. And I'm making
six seven, eight hundred thousand dollars. Do you know how
much money that is just in general, let alone being
and listen, I'm pro these guys making coin. I've said
this to countless people. I mean, I saw it's one
(13:37):
thing like Cooper Flagg and reports are all over the place.
I saw something that he might have made twenty eight
million dollars his first year or just his nine months
at Duke, if that is true, Like, I can't even
imagine going from He didn't as necessarily go from nothing
because the companies were already trying to buy him. But
even if he's on retainer for hundreds of thousand dollars,
(13:58):
going from that to twenty eight million dollars. Again, if
that's true, let's not even use him. He's a bad examp.
Let's just use a starting quarterback, some guy in college
like cam Ward who was making decent money and then
all of a sudden, Miami gives him two or three
million dollars. Like, what could you possibly do with that money?
You're twenty three, You're just You're going to practice eating,
hanging out of your teammates the whole time. I don't
(14:19):
even know. I can't even fathom having that much there.
But I do know this more and more as these
kids see these examples of these guys that get drafted
either in the mid grounds or don't get drafted, and
basically their career might be over in a year and
only get fifty thousand, seventy five thousand, and thirty thousand
signing bonus. It's like I could have just come back
(14:39):
for one more year of seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
even if I'm an impressive guy and I'm going to
have a very lucrative career non football in my life.
I don't know what the starting salaries are in most industries,
but they aren't sniffing seven hundred thousand dollars, So you
do have to wonder the ramifications moving forward only gonna
(15:00):
help out and make college football better because better players
are gonna stay now. If you can be a cam Ward,
a Cooper Flag, a guy get drafted really high, you're
always gonna go pro because there's a lot more money there.
But some of these guys that aren't gonna go h
and they're just our question marks, Like you're not guaranteed anything.
It makes no sense for you not to go back
(15:22):
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(17:11):
not proud to say this, but Friday afternoon, we were
just kind of hanging out at the house and Maria
and I was like, you know what, let's throw on
the Aaron Rogers documentary. Now granted it was you know,
you know, Netflix. It wasn't like I had been thinking
about it. It had kind of popped up on the
Netflix when we were looking around, you know, right around
(17:33):
probably I think we had just had dinner, so it
was early. We had an early dinner on Friday, So
let's just let's just throw this one. See what it's
all about. And I didn't make it through the whole thing.
She uh, let's just say she was the driving force
of like, yeah, let's watch something else after about halfway
through episode two. And I had two big takeaways from
(17:56):
the documentary. One somewhat of a troubled soul and listen,
there are elements to all of us that we all
have issues. One thing I see a lot from my
generation is like the trauma we all had it. So, yeah,
being a parent's hard. Most parents try their hardest. There's
no handbook to do any of this for the most part,
(18:17):
like you could find an example in most human beings
if it's not like specific things, right, I'm just talking
most people's childhood, like the trauma we had to endure
of our parents, Like oh my god, it's like, yeah,
some people just kind of grow out of phases or
can figure things out for like, yeah, holding on to
(18:40):
this anger and this chip on my shoulder is something
that's not going to be that healthy or be able
to balance it. And there is a chip on Aaron
rodgers shoulder that you feel and listen only you know,
just like only I know what it was like to
grow up in my home, what it was like to
grow up in his home. And obviously no like laws
were broken or anything. It's like, yeah, it's like probably disagreed,
(19:03):
probably agreed with some things your parents force you to
do as a kid, and like still be harboring this
energy toward like his childhood. You kind of feel it,
like watching it, like there's this it's like he's this
troubled soul who really likes himself some Aaron Rodgers and
it was like Jesus and I My takeaway watching this
(19:23):
was like I just have a hard time seeing Tom
where Peyton kind of act like this, and a huge
element of it is, you know, part of this was shot.
It's he's single, no family, no kids, obviously, doesn't talk
to his family. Just feels like he's kind of a
(19:44):
lost soul with no family to lean on. And I
do think as you age, right, as you get older,
especially if you have the amount of disposable income which
you have in Aaron Rodgers situation, they have no nothing
to lean on like family. When you are someone that
is famous as him.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Is.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Potentially the only part of your circle that really can
keep some humility in your life. Obviously, your parents, your
brothers and sisters, your wife can say things to you
critically that no one else is saying. And obviously, once
you put children in that you are living for someone else.
There's a bigger purpose to your life. And you're just
(20:29):
watching Aaron Rodgers, You're like, this guy feels kind of
like a lost soul, a huge ego, who's just a
lost soul. Now, the one thing I will defend with
his parents from his perspective is the thing that happened
with his brother on The Bachelor when they left the
open seats, Like that is a complete loser move by
(20:50):
his parents. Even if you weren't happy with your child
and you weren't speaking to your child, there would be
a level of respect you would think. I know, I
would never do this to my future children. My parents
would never have done this to me. It's like, yeah,
we're not doing this, Like we can bring cameras into
the house for my other son dating this girl, But
to put those two seats you knew exactly what you're doing.
(21:13):
That's a loser fucking move. And I don't blame Aaron
from like double middle fingers now the rest of your life.
I don't know what else happened. It just feels like
there's all this negative energy surrounding his family that's forced
him into the kind of this weird life that I
see people on the internet right now or making fun of,
Like do we got a Manti Tale situation going on?
(21:34):
He's got a wedding ring, no one's seen his wife,
He's going on solo walks on the beach. I don't
recommend Enigma. If you'd never watch it, you're not missing much.
It's just kind of a the football part's kind of cool,
like I enjoyed, like Mike McCarthy's a big part of it.
Some of his former coaches are a big part of it.
(21:54):
But any part outside of football just feels a little weird.
And this is what I was saying, like about you know,
people making fun of them for the ayahuasca, for the
darkness retreats, Like you get made fun of for doing
that stuff, Like even if there are positive benefits, you know,
like listen, I don't journal, but clearly watch a lot
(22:18):
of successful people that like talk about on Instagram like,
probably journaling's pretty healthy. If I want on a couple
of my group chats that I'm on text message with
from friends from college or friends from the NFL, and
just started throwing out like here are my thoughts that
I've journaled over the last week, and they made fun
of me. I'd only have myself to blame. And I
(22:38):
just think when you've I mean, he's made hundreds of
millions of dollars. There's like a Lebron element to this.
What does he get made fun of all the time.
It's like Lebron lives in his own little world. Well,
who in Lebron's camp is gonna tell Lebron? No, who's
gonna tell Lebron, like, hey, that's kind of sounds stupid.
I just saw today he opted back into his contract.
He will have made five hundred and eighty million dollars
in his NBA career. So when you factor in the
(23:01):
amount of revenue he's generating for everyone in that little circle,
this is pretty business booman. And the one thing when
business is booman, you don't want to fuck with the
cash cow. So I just watched this enigma, thinking, this
is a bizarre experience. This is not even uncomfortable, but
there's an element of kind of sadness. There's an element
you feel for the guy, obviously the family element, but
(23:24):
it's like there's just like this egotistical factoring in, like
this resentment toward others. It's just it's a wild experience,
which yeah, wouldn't recommend. Other than that, I was thinking today,
like some of these guys I saw Florio put out
like a hot seat. Obviously every year we know on
(23:47):
the low end it's five. On the high end, it
could be like six or seven guys getting fired. That
some of these guys that are on summer break right now,
that have you know, one of the best jobs in
professional sports. You're the head coach of an NFL team.
Even if you're on the low end, you're making seven
eight million dollars. Think about Major League Baseball managers. Some
of these guys make like eight hundred thousand dollars. So
that's like what a running back coach makes with ten
(24:10):
years experience in the league. So it's an incredibly highly paid,
highly public, highly you know, you get a lot of
a lot of power that comes along with it. It's
a great gig. It's an intense gig. It's a stressful gig,
but it's one that not many people get the opportunity
to ever do. Even in the profession. Some of these
(24:30):
guys know they're screwed. I was thinking about if you're
Brian Dable, you head to vacation, you think my career,
my head coaching career at least is depending on Russell
Wilson throwing touchdowns. If I'm Shane Steiken and listen, I
one of the you know surprise predictions last week on
(24:50):
The Herd was Daniel Jones resurrec's his career what if
he doesn't? And if you're Shane Stike and you're thinking
a couple of years ago, I was known as a genius.
I helped save like Nick Sirianni's career because they gave
me the play calling duties. I helped make Jalen Hurts
a high end player offensively. I was known as a genius.
(25:11):
Hell two years ago, I was like, this guy won
nine games of Gardner mint. You now I'm potentially fighting
for my job and it's tied to Daniel Jones by
all reports and everyone in Indie. You could see this
coming from a mile away. He's going to be the
starting quarterback in Indianapolis. You can put that in sharpy
right now. Daniel Jones week one starting. That's who you're
(25:33):
depending on, man. I mean sometimes when your backs against
the wall, you just hope to get a lifeline. Right.
It's like you see some of these situations someone's like
floating that gets found by a coastguard in the water.
It's like, well, we had my boat capsize, but we
had this incredible blow up booie thing that I was
able to sit on. I had a flair. It wasn't easy,
(25:58):
but given the circumstance, it's saved my life. I don't
know if that's a situation here could get really really
ugly and obviously every year, you know, you have situations
that you didn't see coming. You know, everyone thinks Mike
McDaniels in major, major trouble. I think that team is
just not going to be very good. And I think
(26:21):
said this forever. You know, it's one of those jobs
like Brian Daball and Schaansdyke and if they were to
get fired, would be offensive coordinators immediately. Like look at
Dennis Allen, who was he was an embarrassing head coach.
Your boy picked the Saints last year. Shows you what
an idiot I am. But he'll never be a head
coach again. But the moment he's available, like three teams
(26:43):
are trying to hire him as a defensive coordinator and
he will be a defensive coordinator until he doesn't want
to work in the NFL. Well, a defensive coordinator like
Dennis Allen, he's making like two and a half three
four million dollars. He has none of the stress of
being a head coach. He's not in charge of the personnel.
All he has to do is coach defense and he's
making millions of dollars. He's making more than probably I
(27:04):
don't know of the roster and he's a failure as
a head coach. So Shane Sike and Brian Dable, these guys,
even Mike McDaniel, I'm sure would get hired to be
an offensive coordinator pretty quickly. Being a head coach pretty lucrative.
It gives you a lot of fame, gives you a
lot of money, gives you a lot of power. You
(27:25):
see at the front of the seat, you sit at
the front of the table, everyone's looking at you. You
make the hires. You have a huge influence. Even if
you're not in control of the draft, you have a
huge influence on the draft because what GM wants to
give a player to the head coach that doesn't want
to coach you, So say, you know, whether the front
offices in charge or not, you kind of have to
(27:46):
acquiesce a little bit to whoever your coaches are because
you want them to like the players. Because they don't
like the players, they can control that guy's trajectory and
all of a sudden, he's not playing and does you
no good.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
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(28:18):
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Speaker 1 (28:32):
Okay, mail bag time at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
is the Instagram. Fire in those dms. Gave your questions
answered on the show. Want to bang out a bunch?
If you guys, we're gonna do. I'mnid you probably later
in the week, So fire back in those dms at
John Middlecoff. You guys know the drill is your time
to shine in the offseason. This from Kevin Good question.
(28:53):
Did you see Big Bens take that he would take
Prime Rogers over Prime Mahomes? What are your thoughts? You
know what's funny is on my YouTube like I don't
even know page homepage, Roethlisberger podcast where he's I don't
know who his buddy is, young kid. It looks like
popped up today and I watched for a minute. It
(29:15):
was like Ben talking about his vacation. But I didn't
hear him say that. I saw the headline. Listen, you
could and this is what I noticed in Enigma. You
could make the argument, in the peak of his powers,
I'm talking regular season, is as good of a quarterback
that has ever played. I mean, Aaron was a total package.
(29:37):
He was smart, he was athletic, He had a huge arm,
He could make throws from the pocket, he could scramble
and make throws on the run, meaning he was a playmaker,
and he was incredibly accurate, and he could play in
all weather types like he was as good of an
individual player in the regular season that's ever played. Now,
(29:57):
I think if you wanted a nitpick early on the defense,
let him down. I do think he let them in
him down a little bit as he got older. But
this isn't like, yeah, I would take I think there's
something special about what Mahomes brings to the table. But like, listen,
you could argue like anything you wanted in sports, right
(30:22):
you go, Rogers, Well, you know hit Mike McCarthy was
as head coach. Don Capers was his defensive coordinator. You
put twenty six year old Aaron Rodgers with Andy freaking
Reid and Steve Spagnola and let like that operation, who
do you like you go? I think it's a fair argument.
Would Aaron Rodgers just have one super Bowl if in
(30:43):
the prime of his career, from like ten to fifteen,
he was on this Chiefs team? Now, would he have
gone to five to six super Bowls or five of
six Super Bowls? Yeah? I think you could make the
argument that you would rather have Mahomes in some of
these situations. Though Mahomes played a little like Rogers in
some of these big games, right, just don't make a mistake,
play smart, and his defense got the job done. Now,
(31:07):
Like listen, I would take Mahomes after watching Enigma. I
think there's some element of Mahomes that just resonates with
human beings more than Rogers. But I don't think it's
the craziest stake. I really don't. I think if you
put in his prime Aaron Rodgers and you give him
to Belichick in two thousand and one, or you give
him to Bill Walsh in nineteen eighty three, like I
(31:29):
think you're winning a lot of Super Bowls as well.
But that's not how we play the game, like I
don't think it's absurd of a take. Is like when
Darryl Morey used to call James Harden a better offensive
player than Michael Jordan. It's like, Daryl, you lost us,
like you lost the argument. And I also understand from
Big Ben's perspective. Plus, listen, we talked about Brady with
(31:49):
the bias for Sam Darnold. There's an element here off
like Ben played against Rogers, so how fucking good he was.
He's like, I'm Big Ben, I'm going to the Hall
of Fame. I'm one of the best quarter back to
my generation. And this guy's way better than me. And
I've won two Super Bowls. I'm not a better player
in this guy. So I get it when you see
something like you're not gonna convince me there's anyone better
(32:11):
at sports talk and what they do than Coward. Why
I've got a front row seat. I saw it last week.
I've listened forever, I've podcasted with them, and then I
saw him work live on television. I'm like, that's that's
as good as it gets. It's crazy how talented this
guy is. And you know, I think part of any
of our experiences are just what we see right, and
(32:33):
I think there's an element of that with Ben with Aaron.
You forgot Jalen Hurts in your top ten on your
last pot. Please tell me that's the name you're missing,
Jalen Hurts the top ten quarterback. I would agree. Sometimes
we're doing this stuff on the fly. H Okay, this
from Matt. My twin brother and I are having a
debate on who will be the better team this upcoming season,
(32:54):
the Broncos or the Raiders. With Peyton bow second year
in the system, with a better run game and elite defense,
I think the Broncos are sneaky good and could win
a playoff game or two. My twin thinks the Raiders
win a playoff game. That there's no way the Broncos
at one of the best defense in the league. They
led the league in sacks. Their offense is gonna be better.
(33:16):
Their quarterback through twenty nine touchdowns last year. They already
have an established culture operation. Pete Carroll's never coached these guys.
Even if they vastly improve, there's no way you could
objectively pick the Raiders going into this season over the Broncos. Now,
if you're a Raider fan, I totally get it, but like,
(33:37):
based on all the evidence we have the roster, you
would have to take the Broncos, so I would. I
think it's not inconceivable that the Broncos or the Chargers
win the division, right, I mean, are the Chiefs gonna
win it fifteen straight years? They're gonna have one of
(33:58):
these years where just they win eleven games and someone
in their division wins thirteen. This might be it. Two questions.
My partner and I are looking to plan a golf
spa trip. Do you have any recommendations in Scottsdale? Furthermore,
how do you see the Jets doing this year? I
would say two hotels that jump out to me that
(34:18):
also have golf courses would be the Desert Ridge Hotel.
It's in North Scottsdale. I stayed there years ago when
I was kind of looking at trying to buy property here.
I came out here for like ten days where I
met my future wife. It's sitting, especially if you have kids.
It's got like a lazy river. It's it's a cool hotel.
(34:39):
I think they got twenty seven holes of golf behind it.
Jack Nicholas nick Valdo developed it. It's a cool property,
and then the Phoenician, same type thing. I would imagine both.
I'm not a big I'm not a big spot d
A guy. I mean I like a good steam room
in a sauna, but I've never got a spat Da here.
But I would imagine both. Have you know the infrastructure
(35:01):
there for spot A you have to check, but I'd
say Desert Ridge or the Phoenician. Also, just like I
said golf, the Jets, I think they're not going to
be very good if I had to bet, like more
than likely they're selling off some of their parts by
the trade deadline, and this is a reset. You know,
it'll be fascinating. You know, Breis Hall has already been
on the trading block. I think the sauce thing is
(35:23):
pretty fascinating. I had a scout in the league that
told me, not even a scout, I mean he's like
an assistant GM that said, listen, those first two years
they let sauce, they weren't calling pis. He got to
be as physical as he wanted, and when he's tall,
long corner, he could fucking maul you. Last year, what
happened they started throwing the flag. Sauce is not a
(35:45):
four to three. He's not Derek Stingley. So if they
don't let him maul you at the line, like, he's
not just going to be able to mirror you in
the hip pocket. So it's going to be fascinating, you know.
You know, his first two years like all pro So
if you're sauce like thinking, give me one hundred million dollars,
and if you're the Jets, I could not do that.
I'd have to let it play out a little bit.
(36:06):
And then if it plays out and not the right
way and you're not going to give him an extension,
you know, what's his market? He does fit some specific
type defenses. You know, I don't know. He's going to
be a fascinating case study. I think the Jets are
just not gonna be good, and not because you know,
Aaron Glenn's impressive guy, but fields your starting quarterback. A
(36:29):
lot of just unknown, you know, with just how last
year went, how these guys are going to bounce back
or I don't know. I don't have high hopes for
the kind of the squad. I was listening to the
New Heights podcast a few days ago where Jason Kelsey
started comparing the Chiefs rookie Josh Simmons physically to players
(36:50):
like Jason Peters and Trent Williams. However, do you think
he truly will be able to be an above average
left tackle for the Chiefs like Eric Fisher Or do
you think the Chiefs a line will be good without
a player like Joe Touty. I didn't listen to the podcast,
but I obviously, you know, do this for a living.
(37:12):
I saw the headlines of Jason. One thing's pretty clear
is Jason I don't know what is you know, if
he has an official title, but like he watched his
offensive lineman for Howie and he likes doing it, and
I would imagine how he's like this guy could be
there when we draft right because of the injury. And
(37:34):
you know, the Eagles probably were interested anytime a guy
like I mean, look, they took John Campbell, who also
liked Josh Simmons. The only reason he was there because
the injury. Josh Simmons, before he got injured, was going
in the top ten. Now when you compare, you know,
Jason Peters was a tight end in college. Trent Williams
went fourth overall. I think both those guys share two
(37:57):
characteristics of physically there aren't many human beings like either one.
You know, both guys could be three hundred and fifty
pounds and they still move around as a foot athlete
like they're a linebacker. They are elite athletes. They are
just in this body type that. I mean, a small
small percentage of human beings are on the planet that
(38:18):
have six' five the girth to be three hundred and
forty three hundred fifty pounds and then athletically move like.
That but both, guys when they're right physically in their,
Primes trent will see if he's still in. It Obviously
jason's prime ended years ago or. NONE i, mean they
were as good as it gets at left. Tackle you.
(38:39):
Know Josh, SIMMONS i THINK i think the scary thing
for him would be, that what didn't he tear his? Potella? What,
yeah that's. Now, listen my dad taurrest potella WHEN i
was in junior high MAYBE i was in elementary. School
it would have been mid to late. Nineties there's a
(39:02):
man in his, fifties So i'm not comparing him to an,
athlete but it's a very very serious. Injury it's not
an acl it's not Even achilles it's not Like Tommy
John like it's some injuries like, that you're never quite the.
Same AND i think it shows you because most people
would agree him coming out even more Than Will. Campbell
(39:26):
this guy physically had the highest. Upside like if anyone
was gonna be just a seven Time pro bowler at left,
tackle it was gonna be this. Guy if he had
torn HIS, acl not torn his, patella there's no way
he makes it to The. Chiefs none would never have
made it that. Far he would have gone probably still
(39:47):
in the top. Fifteen even if someone's, Like i'm red cheering,
him it's worth. It but you, know the paateella thing is.
Scary my dad's kned never was the. Same, honestly when
he got into his mid to late six he should
have got a knee. Replacement this guy's how Old's Josh.
Simmons he's twenty two years, old SO i, mean, obviously
(40:09):
you know your body recovers. Differently if everything's fine and
he just comes out of it like a player That
terris acl breaks the, leg, whatever The chiefs are going
to have one of the best players in the draft for,
sure because, physically like this guy was At Ohio state
for a. Reason it was a big deal when he got.
INJURED i always like to look at, like you, know
(40:30):
blue chip guys like, this if you just go To
Josh simmons', rivals like if you just go to his
uh what he was like coming out of high. School
he was not the craziest recruit. EVER i guess Four
star originally signed With San Diego. State then obviously blew
(40:51):
up actually started At San Diego. STATE i actually didn't
know that started At San Diego state and then transferred
To Ohio. State it so this guy's transfer portal went
To Helix High. School you guys want to play a,
little uh a little? Trivia you know who else went
To Helix High? School, well given them Only i'm on
the podcast all Answer Alex smith And Reggie. Bush it's
(41:14):
IN i Think North San diego is. Considered this is
a good signing for The San Diego. State that's the
sad part about the fucking transfer. Portal it's, like You're
San Diego, state you Get Josh, simmons Who Jason kelsey's
comparing To Trent williams And Jason, peters and then all
of a, sudden the guy ends up At Ohio. State
how is the little guy supposed to Compete Fresno, State
(41:37):
San Diego, State Boise. State they get Their Josh, simmons
and then all of a, sudden two years, later the
guy's At Ohio. State AND i don't Blame Josh simmons
for going To Ohio. State i'd gone To Ohio state.
Too can you Imagine Josh? Simmons like the transfer portal's
got some good, players there can't be many. Guys this
guy's a future first round pike at left tackle entering
(41:58):
the transfer portal from a Smaller DIVISION i. PROGRAM i
can't even imagine how many people are coming after that. Guy,
okay this is From. Richie congratulations on your, Wedding congrats
on filling in for The. Herd guys giving me a
lot of. Congrats why do you think THE ufc AND
mma is not discussed more in major sports networks like fs?
(42:21):
One look at this. WEEKEND ufc had a major, EVENT
ufc three, seventeen WHICH i believe was stack with great
fights and fan favorite. Fighters the event also delivered with
many finishes via tkoko or. SUBMISSION i guess that would
prefer shows Like The herd And First things first to
discuss MORE ufc content over topics regarding THE La, lakers
(42:43):
the Irrelevant Dallas cowboys flagles, fly or THE. WNBA i
would like to know your opinion of THE ufc And
Dana white in how mainstream can you envision the company?
Growing it's a pretty good. QUESTION i do think there
are two elements of this. One if you if You're
(43:06):
colin Or nick or, whoever what First first, take the
majority ninety percent of what you're going to talk is
going to be football and. Basketball and you, know depending
on the, show Like collin's probably seventy, football seventy five
football and twenty five. Basketball some of the other, shows
maybe you Know First takes fifty to, fifty, right they
(43:27):
talk a ton OF. NBA i would Imagine Nick wright's
show talks a lot OF nba. Two but, like you,
know that, works like that's a winning. Formula not every
guy is going to be in THE, ufc, RIGHT i
would say THE, ufc like tennis or, golf for you,
KNOW f one OR, nascar baseball has become very niche
(43:49):
in the sense of people following it very very. Intently
so IF i just, like, hey here's a topic On
Steph curry or here's a topic On Jalen. Hurts most
sports fans are going to be able to follow. Along
i'm a good. EXAMPLE i have a lot of respect
for the. Business that The Fertida, brothers That Dana. White
(44:10):
WHEN i went to Cal, Pauly Chuck lydell was becoming
a rocket. Ship he was a Cal pauly. Grat he
trained in Cal. Pauly he would or In San Luis.
Obispo he would show up at the frat parties WHEN
i was in college and like steal the hottest, chick
like it was a big deal because we were in
that little. World but LIKE ufc the other, NIGHT i didn't,
(44:31):
watch not BECAUSE i don't respect the. Fighters i'm just
not that into it for whatever, reason, Right AND i
Know Daniel cormier seems like an awesome. Dude Rogan ank
like their whole operation is really really high. Level but
it still is in terms of. One anytime you get
pay per, view you have a barrier to entry where
(44:53):
these other sports are just they're not technically, free right
because cable box or. Whatever but for the most, part
like it's it's easy to watch AN nba playoff game
or AN nfl game or a college football. Game it
is a little more challenging to watch. That AND i
Think Caitlin clark's a good. Example she became a story
(45:13):
on the main networks before everyone was watching, her but
then it drove people to. Watch but, like you'd have
to be pretty passionate to do that and hope that people.
WOULD a huge part of these television shows is, ratings
so you do things that you know will. Work so
(45:34):
Like colin knows that if me and him and he
was really cool, Too like he did a couple of
segments where it was a back and forth with. Me
he didn't have to do, that and we, CHOSE i
mean he, chose but like you want to do HIS nfl, Segments, like,
yeah he knows it's gonna. Work you, know IF i
was a former baseball, scout we wouldn't do like my
five favorite players In Major League, baseball, right we wouldn't do.
(45:56):
That And fox has Some Major league. Baseball SO i
think it's a long winded way of saying. ONE i
think it's still in a weird, way not that, mainstream
even though it's a very lucrative operation now And Dana
white's really famous and some of you. KNOW i do
think If connor was still, involved like you, CAN i
do golf on this medium one BECAUSE i love, IT
(46:19):
i follow. IT i, mean Today i'm Watching Max grazerman
go at it with this dude From South africa And
Jake napp and live on the other. Television but that's not.
Normal AND i know that WHEN i do go low
tomorrow that most people probably haven't watched The Rocket Mortgage.
TOURNAMENT i don't blame you wouldn't watch it either IF
i had something else to, do so you know. That
(46:41):
it's a little like that WITH. Ufc but If Tiger
woods had just played in The Rocket mortgage and won
The Rocket, mortgage you could talk about it and people
would follow, along just like If connor McGregor were still
fighting like someone that, famous you could talk about it
and people would fall. Along it's, why like When Jake
paul fought if he wanted to Fight Mike, tyson like
(47:02):
people kind of pay attention in a sport like, that
the individual. Firepower you need a superstar to. Breakthrough AND
i don't even know If chuck was quite that he
was close and then they've had you, KNOW i would
Say connor's AND i think Even dana, said, right he's
the most important fighters it's ever come along in terms
of mainstream popularity and. Fame like golf was around well
(47:25):
Before Tiger wood showed. Up he changed the sport in
terms OF i love country. Music Without Garth, brooks country
music doesn't become as mainstream as it became the last
twenty five. Years change the fucking game for. Everybody open
the floodgates for guys Like tim, McGraw Kenny, Jesney Jason,
Eldan Luke bryan to become worth hundreds of millions of.
(47:45):
Dollars before, that it was kind of like redneck honky,
tonk you, know VERY i would, say a little niche,
music and it no longer. Is you could argue now
it's the most popular music. Going and a big reason
for that happened WHEN i was a kid With Garth
brooks in the. Nineties that broke through that whether you
like country music or you didn't like country, music you
(48:07):
Followed Garth, brooks AND i think individual sports have elements of.
That Tiger woods was THAT i would imagine back in
like the fifties and Say Arnold palmer was like. That
we've seen that in, tennis like you, Know Pete sampras
was way better Than Andre. Agassy Andre agassy was the
more important player in terms of like commercial. Thing SO
(48:28):
i don't know IF i specifically BECAUSE i don't know
if there's a specific, Answer LIKE i Think colin could
probably answer that question like, no it just doesn't. WORK
i also think you're talking to an audience of, LIKE
i don't know how many people buy the pay per
view BECAUSE i love. Sports it's like the majority of
things THAT i. WATCH i don't order the pay per.
Views AND i like. FIGHTING i like watching people get
(48:50):
their ass, kids, though there was something one of the
guys that got. KOed he got knocked. Out dude hit
him right across the. Face he's out as he hits the.
GROUND i bet his head hits the canvas also knocks him.
Out he is. OUT i, mean it's it's clear the
(49:11):
guy's done. This dude jumps on, him hammer punches his
face before the ref could get. THERE i like. VIOLENCE
i am pro violence felt a little. UNNECESSARY i, was
Like jesus felt uncomfortable watching in a good, way but
it was had. Hurt, Okay, Hey, JOHN i think your
(49:48):
criticisms of The dolphins are reasonable considering they're coming off
an eight nine. Season, however TO a led the league
in a completion percentage seventy two percent last. YEAR i
also think they had a pretty good. Draft if THEIR
o line is even, AVERAGE i think they will go
back to their twenty three. Form they also were missing
seven starters last. Year ramsey can get them a trade,
package can, he, though because if he, could he'd be.
(50:10):
GONE i don't know If jalen get you a trade.
Package maybe we're all just overlooking a scenario where they
actually are decent the. Years my guess is nine to. Eight,
YEAH i Just i'm betting on them to. SUCK i.
Am i'm with. YOU i Think tua gets unfairly, criticized
like he's not as bad AS i think the way
(50:31):
he's talked, about but can't play outdoors late in the.
Season we know that's a, fact and then the injury
risks are just pretty. High is Scary terry A hall
of fame on A hall Of fame? Run he's had
a thousand yard season every single year since he's been
in the, league but no one talks about. It if
(50:51):
he continues for another four, years is he A hall Of.
FAMER i think sometimes you, know The hall Of fame,
talk you can accumulate enough numbers to be in The
hall Of, fame and, Listen terry McLaurin is a really good,
player and like you, said he's been from twenty eighty,
seven eleven hundred seventy, seven one, thousand seventy, seven eleven
(51:12):
hundred seventy, nine one, thousand eighty, two one. Thousand WHEN
i Watched terry, McLaurin i don't Think hall Of, famer
Right like WHEN i Watch Justin, JEFFERSON i Think hall Of.
Fame Jamar, CHASE i Think hall Of, fame Which terry
McLaurin really, good whatever, happened just, like this guy's just.
Good this guy's a good. PLAYER i feel like THE
Nfl hall Of fame is kind of becoming THE Nba
hall Of, fame OR i guess it's not even THE
(51:33):
Nba fall Of. Fame it's the Basketball hall Of fame
where everyone kind of gets. In or it's LIKE i
like The hall Of fames to be, like, Yeah Joe,
Montana Jerry, Rice Tom, Brady, Peyton, Manning Kobe, bryant Shack
Lebron steph like The Deon sanders the best of the.
Best But terry mclaurin's a Good i'd want him on my.
Team does anyone think And i'm not trying to shit
(51:55):
on your take, here But terry McLaurin is not A
hall Of famer to? Me does that mean if he
has another five years playing like he's, playing who. KNOWS
i wouldn't put it past. Him but LIKE i just think,
sometimes Like Aaron, donald you, Know Trent. Williams hall Of
famers should be pretty obvious that there should. Be you
(52:15):
should know right. Away it shouldn't be an acquired. Taste
should not be an acchoir LIKE i used to WHEN
i was a. KID i didn't like. Mustard NOW i
like mustard all my. Sandwiches used to hate. Tomatoes NOW
i can't eat a sandwich without. Tomatoes you should know right.
Away you know, WHAT i never turned down. PIZZA i
liked it my whole. Life it's LIKE i watched this,
player like this guy is. ELITE i don't, like there
(52:39):
can be a there can be a level of player
that between like not trying to replace but also not
going to The hall Of. Fame and that's listen sports
debate talk has kind of created, this but it's. GOOD i,
Mean i'm not putting that Much. Empa he's two time pro,
(53:02):
bowler check a, team all. PRO i mean his career
high in catches is his second year eighty. Seven not
all his, fault BUT i mean he's like averages essentially
seventy eight catches a, year one thousand, yards like four
or five, touchdowns which is fucking. Good he's gonna make
(53:23):
one hundred and fifty million dollars playing in THE. Nfl,
okay last, Question this is From Cam. Cameron maybe he's
the fan in, me but, WHATEVER i Hear baker grouped
with guys Like gino And, DARNOLD i feel like it's.
Disrespectful he had decent numbers In cleveland and since Joining
tampa has arguably been a top eight to nine guy
(53:44):
with the weapons he has this. Year do you think
he can perform well enough to be consistently talked about
as a top tier guy in the book that's already been.
WRITTEN i agree comparing him To Gino smith is. Unfair
he is a better player objectively Than Geno, Smith like
Even gino's good, games like you, know a lot of
bad games and big Moments gino. Solid like to, Me
(54:06):
gino is your, classic like somewhere between thirteen and, seventeen
and over the course of the year has good and,
bad but like serious, limitations but mix up for it with.
Leadership he's got a big, arm so he can make
some big. Plays but like you never Watched gino like
it's a top seven. Quarterback like you Have baker games
that are like is this one of the best players
in the. League and him And sam were on the same,
(54:28):
team now both of them different world to, Go baker
beat him. Out now you could argue that they were
gonna Start baker no matter what still. Happened i'm with.
YOU i Think. BAKER i would expect a huge year From.
BAKER i, MEAN i Like tampa to win that. DIVISION
i Like baker to throw thirty five to forty, touchdowns
(54:49):
AND i think he's going to be well established as
competing to be one of the best quarterbacks in THE.
Nfc like one thing with THE afc is you have
like all time great, players Right Mahomes hall Of, Fame
Lamar hall Of, Fame Josh Allen hall Of, Fame Joe
burrow probably gonna Be hall Of, Fame herbert fucking. Good
but you got big time quarterbacks in THE. Nfc you
(55:12):
Got Okay jaden incredible rookie. Year see back it, up
WHICH i expect him to. Do i'm not down on.
Him you, know you Got jalen who everyone, Loves Jalen
hurst after The Super. Bowl there were times last season
where people are, like what the hell is going on
with the pass? Game jayalen could be a frustrating player at.
Times obviously very talented dual threat, guy you Know. Goff
(55:35):
his good games look damn good in The, dome but
it can have games where you're, Like, god that was pretty.
Bad it's not Exactly murderer's row in THE. Nfc stafford's
thirty eight years. Old you Know, purdy depending on who you,
ask either's awesome or. Sucks so the Competition baker has to,
go especially in his own. Division you Got, bryce you Got,
(55:55):
penix and some times The. South you know what's, Crazy
it happens to me every time you Got, tampa you
Have New, orleans you Have carolina And. Atlanta you got
so you've Got, Tyler, Shock pennix And. Bryce and there's
a Chance tampa wins that division by a couple of.
(56:15):
Games what If atlanta doesn't, win like goes like eight
to nine or seven and, ten Is Arthur blank going
to fire? Everybody that thing could get, weird and that
thing can get weird. Fast But i'm with. YOU i
Think baker has established himself as as you, know one
of the big guns definitely in the in THE. Nfc
(56:37):
and that's how Many you're only playing FOUR afc? Games,
WELL i guess it flip. Flops maybe you're playing five this.
Year but let's just let's just end with. This let's
just pull Up tampa. Schedule who they win ten and
seven last, year so they opened with The, falcons like
them to win that game at The, Texans, Jets eagles At,
(56:59):
Seahawks niners At, lions At, Saints patriots At, bills At rams. Schedules,
actually they got some tough games because they play THE Nfc.
West if they could just kind of be around five,
hundred the last six to seven games get kind of. Easy, Cardinals, Saints, Falcons, Panthers, Dolphins.
(57:24):
Panthers so if they can be around like six and,
six five and, five they got a stretch here where
they could take advantage of. It but they got they
got some tough. Games early At houston's not an easy.
Game That's monday night. Football looks like it might be
A monday night football. Doubleheader get The eagles at, home
(57:48):
have heat on their side At, seattle that's not. Easy
then you gotta fly all the way home to play
The niners the next. Week then you gotta go At,
detroit which is A monday night. Game that's a Good
monday night football. Game to, me where they really got
to take advantage of is they just got to dominate
within their. Division AND i don't see why they, Won't
(58:09):
LIKE i would, say what they do last year in the,
division they went four and. TWO i, MEAN i think
if they go four and two, again they're probably maybe
they're a nine win team this. Year but if they
go five and, ONE i, MEAN i don't see how
they wouldn't, be you, know a ten win. Team the
(58:29):
volume
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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