John reacts to the Bears announcing at rookie mini-camp that Caleb Williams will be the Bears starter in week one and if that is the right decision or should they have made the rookie do a little work to earn it. John also dives in to the latest with Bo Nix, how Joe Burrow's surgery seemed to be a little more serious than originally thought and until he proves he's 100% it will be hard to believe it, and finally, the ManningCast has become must-watch TV again with Belichick joining during every first quarter.
Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.
5:44 - Caleb Williams update
10:16 - The latest with Bo Nix
23:48 - Joe Burrow's surgery
26:27 - Bill Belichick joins the ManningCast
33:54 - Mailbag
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Speaker 1 (01:28):
What is going on, everybody? How are we doing? John
middlecof three and Out podcast sitting around on Sunday and
I'm like, you know what, let's fire the podcast. I
watched a bunch of press conferences and was on the
internet looking at football stuff. I'm like, I got some takes.
So I want to talk about the rookie quarterbacks who
were all on the field this weekend, the Bear's name
(01:52):
justin field starter, some thoughts on bow Nicks. I want
to dive into bow Nicks, some information about Joe Burrows surgery.
It's not as seamless as I think I assumed. And
then Belichick will be on every Monday night football game
with Peyton Eli in the first quarter according to Peyton Manning,
(02:12):
So we'll talk a little football as well as the
Middlecoff mail bag at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff as
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(02:32):
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Veterans rookies are all together, and we'll spend the next
I don't know month, forty plus days talking some ball
as things happen at those all over the league really,
(02:53):
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minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. So let's dive into
the rookie quarterbacks. A lot going on First and Foremost
(04:20):
on Friday. I originally thought it was a pretty big deal,
like I was gonna give eber Flus a lot of
credit when they just go Have you talked to Caleb
Williams how this process the competition of training camp? Starting quarterback?
Is he the starting quarterback? Have you told him he's
a starting quarterback? He's like, no, he's the starting quarterback.
I don't need to tell him that, and I was like,
(04:40):
you know that that's the way to handle it. Cause
one of my things always with some of these coaches,
especially defensive guys, like compete. We got to earn it
in practice. And then I just typed in right before
I hopped on, I'm like, do they even have like
an older veteran on the roster, you know, like a
Flacco just some of those names that are around the league.
(05:03):
They do not. I mean they got like Tyson Badget
and Ripping, So it was an easy one for him.
But I do appreciate just there's no competition, there's no
you know, we'll just we'll start it out. We'll see
where he's at. Mentally like, no, he's the starting quarterback.
I don't care if John middle coops the backup. I
don't care if Joe Montana at sixty years old is
(05:24):
the backup. Regardless who's on the roster, Caleb Williams starter
immediately when everyone gets together on Monday morning obviously at
rookie mini camp and starting the first day, we're all
on the field together sometime this next week or two.
So the Bears, and this is the thing the Packers
have had a huge advantage in that division for thirty years,
(05:45):
they have easily been the best run organization in the
NFC North right, The Bears have been very up and
down with just their organizational structure. The Lions, for the
most part, have been a disaster. Let's face it. I mean,
all Lions fans know these last couple of years is
so cool because it's never felt like this. It's like,
(06:06):
we got real coaches, we got real players, we got
a real plan. Wait are we the Detroit Lions or
we the Pittsburgh Steelers And Minnesota's definitely had their moments
of being well run, but they've also seen some weird
times as well. The Packers have been set the standard
for consistency and now it feels like and this is
(06:26):
why so many people are high on that division is
because a bunch of teams are well run. Now, that's
why you play the games on the field. But you
know the Bears eber Flus with his new look easy,
this guy's are starting quarterback. I would have actually thinking
about it, little shock that they didn't sniff around. I
don't know that five million dollar mark for just a
(06:49):
veteran backup, just basic principles of what it's like to
be in the NFL like, this is usually what we do.
This is how we handled it, even a Flacco type, right,
This is how I prepare. This is what time I
get up. This is what I like to do instead
of just Caleb looks around, he sees Tyson Badget. But
(07:09):
I like where the Bears are headed. And honestly it's
you know, the schedules coming out this week. I think
Bears Packers should be either Sunday or Monday Night football.
Obviously the Chiefs play on Thursday night. There was a
rumor floating around that is Chiefs Ravens. Personally, I would
go Chiefs Chargers. I would go Chiefs Chargers. Jim Harbaugh's
(07:31):
first game Chargers to me, they did that a couple
of years ago. If you remember, Amazon's first game was
chief Chargers and that was with Brandon Staley and it
was fantastic. I would go chief Chargers. But if they
go Chiefs Ravens, I can't complain. And I would go
some route of either Niners, Cowboys Sunday Night or Monday
Night and Packers Bears. Now maybe they'll want to mix
(07:54):
in an AFC team. You could go a little curveball
if you went Packers Bears Monday Night football, that would
be a Monday Night football game. Packers Bears. You could
go Niners Jets, I think would be pretty good. Aaron
Rodgers game, but I think Niners Cowboys forever they loved
going in some you know rotation Cowboys at Giants or
(08:17):
Giants at Cowboys. But the Giants have basically sucked for
you know, eight nine years beside two years ago when
they won nine games. But the Cowboys are a no
brainer to get an enormous number, and the Niners are
top two or three when they're good rating team in
the NFL. So that's probably what they end up doing.
But I do hope that Packers Bears. I think Monday
(08:38):
Night how badass, that Caleb's first game, all the Jordan
love hype. That would be sweet. I do hope they
go hardboll but it does feel like they're gonna go Ravens.
All we've ever talked about when it comes to young
quarterbacks is, you know, guys that get highly drafted, and
I would include second round players. Where do you get drafted,
what is your landing spot right, what team do you
(09:00):
go to? And for the most part, guys that get
drafted high, as we all know, get drafted to such
bad teams. If I hire you out of wherever you
went to college at twenty two to twenty three years
old and I put you in a company that is
an absolute disaster, you individually plot probably will not have
that much success. Ninety nine percent of people cannot rise
(09:26):
above dysfunction when they're young. I know I couldn't, and
I know most people I've ever met could not as well.
But when you get to go to just a normal company,
let alone high functioning one, you are going to be
put in position to succeed. And then as time goes
it weeds out the haves and halves nots. But I
know for my own experience, I got to go to
(09:47):
Fresno State right after I graduated from cal Poly pat Hill,
who had been there for a long time. The program
was successful. It was an incredible landing spot. I got very,
very lucky. I had a lot of friends that graduated,
and you know, when we graduated in like the eight range,
a lot of these companies in the Bay Area were
really taken off, and it was an oracle. Facebook. You know,
(10:11):
Apple had been around for a long time but was
going to another stratosphere and if you got in right there,
a lot of them had a lot of financial success.
It was a good time. So bo Knicks, I wouldn't
say got shpit on, but most people thought that's crazy.
You can't draft bow Knicks there, so earlier today, I'm
(10:31):
kind of bored, just kind of lounging around on Sunday,
grabbed the iPad and I just typed in some basically
cut ups highlights of bo Nicks. And I've watched him
play the last couple of years because I'm a PAC
twelve homer and that conference no longer exists, you know who.
He kind of reminded me of watching him play a
lot of and I thought these two guys were very
(10:52):
similar players in college. Derek's got a better arm, but
Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo and both those guys who
who were drafted in the second round went on relative
to where they were drafted to have a ton of
success and make a ton of money. Now, Derek's career
has been up and down, but I had a front
row seat in the organization that he had to play
(11:14):
in for a long time. And I'm not defending him.
I'm not acting like if he would have gone to
the Pittsburgh Steelers or Andy Reid, he would have been
some top five quarterback. But I think his career looks
a lot different if he doesn't go to one of
the more chaotic places for eight nine years than the
place he went to in the Raiders, and he was
still relatively pretty good. Jimmy Garoppolo is a good example
(11:34):
of a guy. Now he went later in the second
round than Derek. Where'd he get to go? Well, he
immediately gets to go sit in a room with Tom
Brady for three and a half years, be coached by
Josh McDaniels, who's terrible head coach, damn good offensive coordinator,
and be around Bill Belichick. And then when he gets traded,
Belichick trades him to Kyle Shanahan, and his career on
the field, in terms of wins and losses, has a
(11:56):
lot of success. And I watched Bonnicks, I'm like, I
see a lot of those guys, similar size, similar movement.
Both those guys were better athletes when they were younger
and pretty accurate. Now. I wouldn't say he has the
most explosive arm in the draft, but watching him like
he's got a pretty good arm, throws pretty well on
(12:16):
the run, And then it came up on my YouTube
page Sean Payton talking like, yeah he was. We're very,
very excited to have him here, and all we've hammered
home over the years is like where you go to
really matters. Patrick Mahomes obviously is one of the best
players we've ever seen, but we all agree he really
benefited from going to Andy Reid and just a lot
(12:37):
of recent quarterbacks that got drafted, like when Josh Allen.
The Bills took a chance on him. Their offensive coordinator
was Brian da Ball and obviously was very very important
in the growth of him as a player. Jared Goff
was an absolute laughingstock his first year. I mean some
people thought like, is this even an NFL player? Jeff
(12:58):
Fisher gets fired, Sean Vey comes in and the rest
is history. There was a little bump in the road
at the end of his la time, but he's gone
on to have a very very successful career. So I
watched Bo Nicks and any Oregon fan and there's a
lot of them out there go he. I mean, last
year his statistics were insane. The knock on him is
a lot of bubble screens and stuff. Okay, just remove those.
(13:20):
Can he throw on the run? Can he be accurate
down the field? Can he understand the offense? Well? Sean
Payton believes he can. And here's the other thing we know,
Sean Payton is also the offensive coordinator. So did he
get quote unquote overdrafted in the history of the league.
Does a guy like him usually go fourteen? No? But
if you did re drafts, which has never happened in
the history of mankind. But if there ever were guys
(13:43):
like Jimmy Garoppolo, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, would obviously not
have gone where they went. They would have gone a
lot higher in their drafts. They all would have gone
in the top fifteen, maybe not one overall, but they
ain't going twenty fifth. So if you can look at
it like that, the cost of quarterback inflation is what
(14:04):
it is. We see it every day in our lives.
The cost of everything we do is a lot more.
It's still if you need a car, if you need
a home, like these things are the price. So we
know it's well established now. If there is a quarterback
that has any talent and has any success in college
at a bigger program and has any hype like he's
(14:24):
not lasting, they'll pick fifty anymore. Those days are done.
They're over. No matter how many of these guys like
Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, mac Jones, and Justin Fields flame
out and get moved on for fourth and sixth round picks,
don't get their fifth round option picked up. It didn't
impact this class one iota. But if you're Sean Payton
(14:46):
and you go god, I see a lot of similarities
in those guys who I would have loved to have
as we transition off Drew Brees, because I think I
can win with that guy. And I've always been a
huge fan of the draft from the marketplace standpoint point,
like you don't need to draft that guy right there.
You could have got him two rounds later. But I
hear a lot in the draft, like, you know, this
(15:07):
guy was probably more of a second round pick. Well,
they drafted him at pick thirty one. I'll just use
an example because the Niners took a lot of criticism
for Ricky Priersoll. No clue how this guy's gonna be
in the NFL. I would say Kyle is a pretty
good track record recently of drafting wide receivers and knows
exactly what he wants. Most people would say, that's pretty rich.
(15:28):
You know, he's a top fifty player, but pick thirty one, Well,
they don't pick again, They'll pick sixty four, so they
don't have that. If they like him and there's no
one else in the group that they feel comfortable with,
if he's their highest graded player, why not take him? Now?
When you take a guy like God And this is
what happened to Belichick at the end of his run,
(15:49):
Like God, he just took a guy in the second
round that we had fifth round grades on, Like, that's insane.
When you do stuff like that, I push back. But
when it comes to bo Nicks, like if you view
him anywhere in the world of Jimmy Garoppolo or Derek Carr,
it's an easy pick that has nothing to do with
how it's gonna look. I'm just talking about the value
(16:10):
the guy, and I think a skill set actually is
better than he gets credit for at least, and part
of it is you get you know, there's so much
air taken out of the room when we talked about
Caleb rightfully, so one of the bigger name prospects I
would say of my life. I mean seriously, I would say,
Andrew Luck's probably the most hype prospect of my life.
(16:33):
You know, Peyton Manning, I was in like junior high,
don't quite remember, but obviously he was a highly touted
everyone was talking about him. But part of that draft
was like Peyton Manning, Ryan Lee. I would say, Matt Stafford,
Cam Newton, those guys were really highly touted, and Trevor Lawrence,
and I would put Caleb right in the mix, right
behind Andrew Luck in terms of hype, in terms of
(16:56):
no brainer, in terms of would have been the number
one pick in the draft for multiple years had he not.
You know, Andrew returned to school, Caleb didn't have an option.
If Caleb could have come out last year, he would
have and he would have been the top pick. So
I just think that I just wonder if bo Nicks
is going to be a lot better than people think,
just because I think he's gonna be able to function
(17:16):
that offense, and if he's more talented than people realize. Now,
is there team good enough? Is the talent just on
the roster good enough for the team to be competitive?
There are a lot of unanswered questions. But here's the
one thing I know. The head coach is also the
play caller, and for a long period of time before
everyone has been shitting on him, and he deserved it.
Last year, I mean last early on in the season,
(17:37):
like what's going on part of it. By the end,
it's Russell Wilson. I defended him for the way he
got rode Russell Wilson. You don't like the guy, what's
the point keeping him he didn't sign a contract, get
him out of the building, especially when he's kind of
a weirdo. But that's something to keep an eye on,
it really is. And I love when videos go viral.
This one I just saw on the internet was side
by side of Drake May throwing a football, both of
(17:59):
them throwing like a deep basically a guy down the
seam and Jayden Daniels throwing the football and the ball
is down the field with Jaden Daniels before it's out
of Drake May's hands. And we talked a lot about
this with the with Drake May's situation, like Brian day
Ball was interested, Kevin O'Connell was interested. It was a
(18:20):
project and part of dealing with a project is fixing them.
And there's a lot to work with, the measurables, the
character everything, but like, you got to attempt to fix
some stuff, and it's very very hard. I love golf,
and I played Friday and Saturday, and I got a
(18:41):
lesson probably two months ago, and I've been working on
some things, but I would say the majority of my
shots are muscle memory. And it resorts back any human
being that has played any sport that tries to change
something that is different from what they inherently do, it
can be a very big challenge. So I'm fascinated. Like
(19:03):
I don't blame them for picking them especially, And I said,
if you're telling me, day Ball wanted him, and Kevin
O'Connell wanted them probably, And they've even said this, like
we knew the team's interested. It actually just you know,
hammered home and reiterated our fascination or intrigue and just
love of this player. But for now that the players
(19:25):
on your team for him to be good, you got
to fix them or at least change him. And it's
gonna be very very interesting because you know, Alex van
Pelt was just running out of Cleveland. Now, was that
because Deshaun Watson wanted him out. I don't know. He's
a former quarterback, you know, Gerrod Mayo. I'm sorry. As
of right now, I don't consider he knows anything about offense.
(19:46):
How could he. He's been coaching for five years and
he was a linebacker, and let's face it, most defensive
guys can be hard headed when it comes to the offense.
But I don't think girod Mayo could just stand next
to him and coach him up. So it's it's going
to be be a challenge getting rid of the ball
and accuracy like that's was a downfall of Sam Donald.
He's got a loopier release and he has a big arm,
(20:08):
and he's accuracy can be a problem just from the
size standpoint, movement standpoint, and arm strength standpoint. Sam Donald
has it all, but that that loopy release gives that
extra step to the dB and the accuracy is a
little off. It's something that you got to try to fix.
And I watched Donald last year. He never really fixed it. Now.
It doesn't mean he hasn't improved with his decision decision making,
(20:29):
but it's interesting to see. I like projects. I'm pro
taking big swins, but now now you got to figure
it out. Now it's now, it's on the coaches. The
thing that's not on the coaches is this Joe Burrow situation. Uh,
(20:53):
there was an article that came out on Friday that
you know, he got the wrist surgery last year. And
when I think of ACL or Achilles surgeries, and I
think most of us do, I think we just assume, yeah,
he's gonna be fine eventually, Like the timetables change depending
on who you are. You know, it could be eight months,
(21:16):
could be nine months if you'r Aaron Rodgers, could be
two months, whatever, But you're gonna come back fully like
healthy now, depending on your age. Like I don't expect
Rogers to be as mobile as he was when he
was thirty years old. Same thing with cousins who's never
been that mobile and who's getting older. But when you're
a younger player in his twenties, like Joe Burrow, when
(21:37):
I see surgery, he had surgery, he's gonna be fine,
I just assume one percent over time, right, And this
article said, actually, most surgeries right on ACL's achilles, elbows, whatever,
have a ninety to ninety five percent of success rate.
(21:57):
This specific surgery is actually seventy to seventy five percent.
What this doctor also said that it is basically impossible
to not avoid inflammation in your wrist when you are
using it, especially with a guy like Joe Burrow, who's
just there's no way to get around it. I mean,
(22:18):
you use it every time you throw, and the key
is the moment you feel it, like you gotta be very,
very cautious. And I said this, I've said this multiple times.
When that guy's on, he is as dominant as anybody,
and he's the only really active player because Brady's gone
to take Patrick Mahomes down in the playoffs. And you know,
(22:40):
obviously we've seen his good at LSU and in the pros.
The guy's a fucking star. But there is no debating
these injuries. And listen, maybe this doesn't crop up, but like,
I don't think these stats just come out of nowhere
like it. It's just pretty alarming. So it's it's something
that just time he's moving that thing around or misses
(23:02):
a practice. I think, until we're proven otherwise, it's fair
to be a little concerned, which sucks. I love watching
the guy play. He's one of my favorite players in
the league that that team is a very enjoyable team
to play, just the way you know, they fling it around,
they throw bombs, They're a really really fun offense when
he's on the field. So I'm not I'm rooting for
him to be one hundredcent healthy and it's never to
(23:23):
be an issue again. But I don't know. You read
things like that, you get a little scared, and last
but not least, the moment, Bill Belichick couldn't get a job.
Like Julian Edelman said, Foxborough High wouldn't even hire you,
even though I think if Bill was interested, Foxborough High
might have interest, but was to get on Thursday night
football Amazon Prime or Monday Night Football, which was impossible
(23:47):
because of Joe and Troy. So basically your only option
was could you get in the booth for Thursday night football.
Kirkherbstreet college guy, one of the best college guys of
all time. I don't love him in the NFL. Part
of him and Al have weird chemistry. It's just not
a great broadcast. As someone who's been watching sports broadcasts
for that I can remember for thirty five plus years,
(24:09):
I think we all agree it's it's one of the
rougher Ones. It feels more like a lower level Sunday
game at ten o'clock in the morning Pacific Standard time
than it does one of the marquee games. When you
turn on Sunday Night Football and you get Turrico and Collinsworth,
like they just have really good chemistry, just like al
Michaels and Collinsworth had really good chemistry. Joe Buck and
(24:31):
Troy Aikman have really good chemistry. There's this clunky and
part of it is like a Kirkus in a weird way,
an outsider. And if you just remove herb Street put Belichick,
it would be an incredible way to change the perception.
Because there are two games a week that every owner
in the league, beside the two playing in the game
watch that is Thursday and Monday Night Football. Well that
(24:51):
didn't happen, and I was like, God, I hope Bill
doesn't do some like pregame show or do something stupid.
Those are so dumb that you don't even get any
out of that. Plus, especially on Sundays, most of these
owners don't watch any of that stuff because his perception
is bad. Now, I do think the roast helped change it.
I wonder if the roast was like a pivotal moment
(25:12):
for society when it's just like, yeah, we just say
whatever you want again, let's just let it rip. If
those guys are doing it like it was, it's one
of the most refreshing events I've seen in a long time.
It felt like a moment. It really did problems Tom
Brady for doing that. I know we got paid a
lot of money, but I can't imagine many people of
his statures status would would have pulled the trigger on that.
(25:36):
Maybe he just really hates his ex wife. But it
was announced I think on Friday with Peyton Manning that
Bill Belichick will be on every first quarter of the
Manning Cast and for the first time. I like most people,
the Manning Cast when it first started was really cool.
It was awesome. Well, the moment they hired Joe and Troy,
(26:00):
I just started watching the broadcast, I was like, I
love Peyton and Eli and I like hanging out with them,
but they have weird guests on Zoom and it just
I don't really care, like what Kevin Hart's saying during
the Eagle game, Like I just want to watch the game.
I do think getting Bill Belichick on the first quarter
is would get me, like, get me to change the channel.
(26:21):
And I do think it'll get the owners to change
the channel because one thing he showed at the roast,
and he showed at McAfee with the draft. I saw
some of the clips, and this is like most people
you follow, like on Instagram, write or Twitter or any
your social media channels, you're gonna have a perception. You're
gonna think something about them, especially any famous person that's
(26:45):
like real, that's like fake. It's like reality television on
social media. If you in hell, you might follow some
people you hate. I do it. It's sick, I know,
but I definitely follow some people I hate. I bet
if you met them, they might be nothing like they're
online persona, And hell, you might like him. And I
think most people just assume. I'll Belichick curmudgeon, asshole, tough
(27:07):
to dick, miserable, just not fun. And I wonder if
he can loosen up because he's gonna go on McAfee
during the day on Monday, which his clips, especially if
he lets it loose on a team or a coach,
will definitely go viral and that will be passed around
the NFL world fast and I think him with Peyton
(27:29):
and Eli could be very, very beneficial to his career
because he's no lock to get a job next year.
I know everyone thinks it, but I don't know. You
talk about a seventy four year old guy. Some of
these teams that we think are gonna suck, what if
they don't? Some of these teams that are gonna inevitably
(27:49):
fire coaches, what if their team's just terrible? And he's like,
I'm not even interested in doing that. Maybe he would
be so desperate, But I do think this will go
a long long way of just the owners that had,
let's face it, I mean he got one interview, one
team interviewed, pretty sure, they were like six or seven openings,
and I think this could this could help change it.
(28:10):
And I'm interested to watch. Like I said, I didn't
go to Peyton and Eli at all last year, and
not because I don't like him. I would say universally,
most people enjoy Payton an Eli on tv BS and
about football. It's fun, but like I and part of
it is I do this for a job, Like I
kind of I like locking in and Joe and Troy
are good. I mean, I know Joe Buck on the internet.
(28:31):
Everyone thinks he sucks, Like, yeah, he's actually really good,
probably one of the all time greats. And Troy's kind
of my style, you know, He's kind of a dying
breed of a guy that will just rip people. You know,
that was an awful call by the offensive coordinator. He
watched some of these broadcasts. Everyone's just the greatest. It's like, God,
that's not what we're thinking when we're sitting on our
couch watching this game. We just saw him, you know,
(28:52):
run a quarterback sneak on third and eight. But I
do think he's gonna get a lot of traffic. It's
actually in that first quarter. If I was Joe and Troy,
I'd be like, what is now? Both of them got
enormous amounts of money. I mean, I think Troy signed
for a buck fifty and Buck signed for like eighty
million dollars. But I wouldn't love that because it's gonna
(29:13):
make some people change the channel. Okay, Middlecoff mailbag at
John Middlecoff is the Instagram. You guys probably have Instagram,
So just fireing my dms at John Middlecoff two fs
(29:34):
dms wide open for the pod. I'm curious as to
what you think was going through Raheem Morris's mind to
take Pennix at eight. He hasn't proved himself as a
head coach, and he took a very capable quarterback. I
think he means Cousins, So he basically set himself up
for a bidding war amongst fans and the owner of
the team. I would understand if Blank wanted him, but
(29:58):
it's like he set himself up for failure. You know,
the most underrated part about this entire story has not
been that they fell in love with him the last
month and a half, that Cousins was shell shocked how
much money they gave Cousins, all this stuff. It's just
(30:21):
simply that this guy in his first year and a
GM that has had three seven win seasons, his twenty
one wins in three years, set up their locker room
for weirdness. Because you have to factor in that Cousins,
at least I haven't read. While he might be ready
(30:41):
for week one, he is not going to be participating
on the field in full speed drills for OTAs. So
pendix is this is not some young team or some
veteran team that is like, hey, listen, we wanted cousins.
Young guys. This is a bunch of young guys. Robinson's
second year, Drake London a couple of years in the league.
(31:03):
Kyle Pitts just got his fifth year option picked up.
Like these are young, impressionable people on offense that are
going to be getting the ball with, you know, on
the field, in the huddle, practicing with Michael Pennix for
a month and a half. Who think they're gonna go
to dinner with husbands? Are Pennix? The locker room dynamics.
(31:27):
I heard this about New England forever one reason when
they were winning all the Super Bowls and always drafting
somewhere between like twenty eight and thirty two. While why
Bill often traded out of the first round and even
if they were higher than that was because he never
liked a rookie on these teams that were really good
to come in making a decent amount of money that
(31:48):
he didn't view as some like camp miss player. And
obviously he did draft some guys high, but I think
you have to factor in the locker room dynamics, like
this is not an Excel spreadsheet, These aren't widgets, so
we can argue over the wasted money on Cousins, the
wasted draft pick. Well, they did it. They got the
(32:09):
two guys together, but one guy can't practice, and he's
the guy making forty five million dollars a year. He
has no equity with the fans or the players. None. Yeah,
they saw Cousins be good in the league. But it's
twenty twenty four now and he's in the he's in
the training room, and this kid who is been in
college for five years, ready made starter. Now, I don't
(32:32):
know if he's gonna be good or not. I think
he probably will. I like Michael Pennix as a lot
as a prospect. My point is, no one knows, but
they're gonna see the kids slinging around. I heard someone
like Albert Breer total to Rich Eisen that some people
in that building, because they came from LA right, think
there's like some Matt Stafford there. Well, if there's some
Matt Stafford there, how the fuck Cousin's gonna beat him out.
(32:55):
And it just shows you, like they the coaches fell
in love with him. The coaches fell in love with them.
Because this pick doesn't happen without the coach. This is
not a GM pick. It's just not You could have
taken Spencer Rattler in the third round. If you wanted
to take a young quarterback, you would have taken a
defensive player there. Oh, there wasn't a guy we had greater.
(33:18):
Just take the defensive tackle from Texas. No one's complaining.
I get the defensive lineman the ends, but they easily
could have taken the defensive tackle from Texas right there.
And the moment they made this pick, it's weird, and
the moment things get weird in locker rooms, there's usually
(33:38):
no coming back from it. So I just anyone comparing
this to the Packers is the dumbest thing of all time.
Jordan Love was one a complete project, and two he
was going in to a quarterback room led by Aaron
Rodgers who had multiple MVPs and was easily one of
(33:59):
the best players in the league, even off a down year,
had no chance to beat him out. The fans knew it,
the players knew it, My mom knew it. We all
knew it. That ain't here because I heard someone say
this the other day and I was like, guy, that's
kind of right. It's not like they're buying Peyton Manning
in his prime this what does he really accomplished between
(34:21):
and I listen, Kirk Cousins, solid player, but he is
a regular season player. You're not getting some like all
time great, you're getting one of the highest paid players
of all time, but he's not exactly mister accomplished when
it comes to the resume in terms of like playoff victories,
dominating performances on primetime games. I think the risk of
(34:43):
all the human dynamics.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Is nuts.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I really do. I think it's I think it's really
really high question for the Mailbag. You're the best NFL
podcast out there, Carly, and I like you, buddy. Teams
are concerned aboutrunning quarterback sneaks because of injury risk. Why
do more teams not put the backup quarterback in these situations. Well,
if you put the backup quarterback in those situations, the
(35:11):
other team knows, like they one hundred percent know what's coming.
So I think that's coaches just hate, you know, tells
on their places. So you would never like when you
bring a certain guy in if it was just like
he's only running quarterback sneaks, That's why they would never
do it. Were there ever any players in the NFL
(35:33):
that you remember that had a fear of flying, kind
of like Madden in the bus. No, because it'd be
impossible to play college football without flying. So think about
the overwhelming majority of guys come from Power five schools.
You gotta fly, cal Pauly, they had to fly to
play Montana or whatever. So it's you can't really play
(35:56):
football at a high level in college of the pros
and not fly. How did you last year? In the
middle of season? Haven't missed an episode since Mailbag? I
watched the Eagles this grant all access twenty four draft
video on YouTube. I did as well. One thing I
noticed was that a couple of days before the draft,
the Eagles had a red Star meeting where the scouts
(36:19):
could put a star on a guy that they really
liked and bring him up to the rest of the group.
I don't know if you were part of those, but
from your perspective, what's the point. Everyone brings up different
players and says the same things about each player tough, resilient,
high football like, etc. How much does Howie a GM
(36:40):
take from this meeting. It's only two days before the draft,
so how much of an impact can it have? I
feel like it's more for the scouts to feel like
they're heard. I think it's more. I think a lot
of teams do versions of this. The point is leading
up to the draft, there is so much happening, so
many names out there. Board's huge. Your group has spent
(37:04):
so much work on grading all those players on that
draft board. It's basically to kind of get a little
clarity in the room, right because there's so much noise.
There's so much white noise. There's so many just shit
flying around. And if you're Howie're, if you're a GM,
it just gives you a chance to hear like six, seven,
(37:24):
ten names that you just know, like if we're in position,
because again, a lot of it's out of your control.
And one of the names on there was Jeremiah Trotter.
That's a bad example because he he's an eagle guy,
so it's like they would have been talking about him
no matter what. But just any player that if they've
been talking about hammered Home and this scout hammered Home
(37:45):
in the Red Star and then it's the fourth round
and how he's thinking, should we just take this guy?
Or you know we were gonna trade, but now instead
of making a trade. Let's just draft this player because
we all liked him. He came up in the Red
Star meeting. But I agree, it's not like you couldn't
quantify the power of that meeting. Is it necessary? Would
(38:09):
their draft have look the same without it, because like
you said, they've already talked about these players and people
know they like them. I think it's just a hammer
at home. It's just it's like practice. It's like, did
you really need that last rep on Friday afternoon? Did that?
Was that the reason you won the game on Sunday? No?
But it helped, So I think it's just repetition. Listen
(38:35):
how he's making seven figures but no one else in
the room is, and most of the guys are closer
to one hundred grand than three hundred. So it it
the And this is not like some nine to five job.
This is one hundred hour week job. So given the
amount of people, even my girlfriend's friends who just rushing
(38:59):
it in business, rushing it. And I'm talking funny whenever
I read about pay for younger people, I mean, her
friends are in their late twenties, early thirties. I mean,
I was like, Jesus didn't sniff that type coin at
the time, but they ain't working seventy hour weeks when
they're doing it. Because you know, you get in the
right industry at the right time. You're good at sales, whatever, football,
(39:23):
no matter what it's like, it are long fucking days,
long days, nine ten months a year. So for the
equivalent of the work ethic, it's like geez, you get
out of it, you realize, God, it's not really adding up.
But you got to make those guys feel included. That's
(39:43):
why the video that went viral of the Colts, I
don't know if he saw it, but one of their
scout was just hammering this guy all spring long, the
dB from Auburn, I forget his name, but he just
loved him. He loved him. He pushed it, he pushed them.
Then in the fifth round they looked up at the
board and Chris is like, screw it, we're taking them.
(40:05):
So he calls the dB from Auburn and he looks
back and all the scouts are in the room and
he calls up I think the guy's name is Jamie
the scout, and he says, come up here. You're making
the phone call. And part of it is like you
got to keep your people included if you're in a
management position, because it's easy to just feel like you're
(40:27):
just an independent contractor what's the point of this. I'm
just evaluating guys to evaluate them. No one actually cares
what I think. Even if they don't actually care what
you think, you're gonna lose them and you'll build a
bad culture. It's just business, one on one. So I
hear you with does the overall impact of some of
this stuff matter? You know, it's hard to know the
(40:51):
specific return on investment of all this craft, but I
think it is very very important to have people like
they feel included in the process, because it's very very
easy as a scout to just feel like you're not
even part of the draft process. You're like, wait, I
drove city to city, not making much money, eating subway
sandwiches and powering down mountain dew and had no life.
(41:14):
Didn't see my Beyonce, my family, my kids. I just
grinded my balls off, and now we get to the
draft meeting, which is the fun part. Why I did
all the work and now no one even cares what
I think. That sucks. I mean, it really really sucks.
Think about whatever you're doing in any of your company.
(41:35):
After a while, it's like you spend a lot of
time doing something you want to feel like it had
a purpose, like there was something behind it, and when
it doesn't feel that way. So I think it's more
for that, like the uh kind of bringing the group together.
I do think there's a tangible value just because you
hammer home the names. You see some of these boards,
(41:58):
even on some of these videos that are all blurred out,
I mean, you can barely see that. There are so
many names up there. It's just easy to get, you know,
kind of convoluted. You look at it, you're like, did
we like this guy? We like this guy? Recently news
broke that eighty on Mitchell A Donnie Mitchell, Adonna Mitchell.
I think I'm saying his name right to the wide
receiver from Texas on the Colts would be wearing number
(42:20):
ten to signify the ten receivers that were taken before
him in the draft. I'm a Colts fan, but can't
help but think this is cringe and immature, especially coming
from someone that dropped in the draft because of possible
character issues. Is my thinking out of line? What do
you think my first reaction is. I just don't care.
(42:42):
I don't think it matters. It would have been more
unique when less guys. There was a small, small handful
of guys playing receiver that didn't have a number in
the eighties. But how many of the receivers now wear
ten to nineteen you know that have numbers in the
teens or I guess even single digits. So to me,
(43:02):
with the number change, it's like we don't even notice.
It's an easy thing to say once he gets good.
I don't think it matters at all. And I don't
think it's a reflection like he might have worn ten
no matter what, because the numbers on the team are
already taken. Yeah, I don't. I don't think it impacts,
(43:26):
like from a I can't make a judgment from a
character standpoint because he wants to wear ten. I mean,
kind of wide receivers in the league war ten. Now,
why wouldn't the Steelers play justin fields at running back?
Ravens put Lamar and Flacco on the field together, but
they split Flacco wide, which was worthless. Haysom Hill had
found a role as a second quarterback on the field
(43:47):
and has even thrown passes. Is there a downside to
having a guy back there that can run well and
also throw like a semi legit quarterback, seems like it
could create a problem. Yeah, I mean they're already talking
about putting a kick returner. People laugh, but it's like
Justin Fields would be a dynamic kick return I saw
Sean Payton said, I don't think people realize how many
(44:09):
explosive plays are gonna come from this kickoff because there's
not like a line of defense. Right when you're playing
a defense, there are guys in the line of scrimmage,
the defensive line, linebackers backed off, you know, anywhere from
three to six seven yards, and then you have multiple
corners on the outside as well as safeties. The safety
(44:31):
is essentially the kicker, and everyone's at the line five
yards away from you know, the people trying to block them.
So if you reverse field and can make a guy
miss or break a tackle, I think we are going
to see countless touchdowns and definitely big plays. So Justin
(44:52):
Fields is proven to be an incredible open field runner. Like,
let's face it, he's got a big arm, but he's
not accurate, doesn't play well from the pocket. So far,
he hasn't been a good quarterback, though, I would like
to see what Arthur Smith can do it. There is
no one that argues open field ball in his hands.
He's one of the more dynamic players in the league. Now,
it's different catching the ball than just getting a snap
(45:15):
to you. But yeah, I mean I definitely would have
because Russell Wilson no longer like the athletic element of
his game is long gone. I think we're gonna see,
especially if they think after training camp, like you know,
making this guy good quarterbacks not necessarily possible. Why wouldn't
you just utilize the skill set and just turn him
(45:36):
into a hybrid. I think it could happen fast, like
Lamar approved really quickly that he could throw if and
it's gonna be harder for fields. If Russell's just the
starter and he's not playing, you might as well want
to use the player. But the problem is your backup quarterback,
and then if Russell were to get hurt, you'd kind
of be screwed. So it is a slippery slope. Because
(45:57):
that's my thing with the Bears, like, what if kayleb
got hurt, You're gonna play with Tyson Badget. You know,
you do have to put some thought into the backup
quarterback because you're one just broken foot, broken finger, you know,
just broken leg away from the quarterback. Concussion, just a concussion,
(46:18):
and then all of a sudden like that guy starts
multiple games, so I hear you. Hopefully they do that.
You think the internet would break if Justin Fields returned
to kick in the new kick off rule and took
it to the crib. That'd be bad ass. Appreciate everyone
listening the volume
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Speaker 1 (01:28):
What is going on, everybody? How are we doing? John
middlecof three and Out podcast sitting around on Sunday and
I'm like, you know what, let's fire the podcast. I
watched a bunch of press conferences and was on the
internet looking at football stuff. I'm like, I got some takes.
So I want to talk about the rookie quarterbacks who
were all on the field this weekend, the Bear's name
(01:52):
justin field starter, some thoughts on bow Nicks. I want
to dive into bow Nicks, some information about Joe Burrows surgery.
It's not as seamless as I think I assumed. And
then Belichick will be on every Monday night football game
with Peyton Eli in the first quarter according to Peyton Manning,
(02:12):
So we'll talk a little football as well as the
Middlecoff mail bag at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff as
the Instagram. Fire in those dms and get your questions
answered here on the show. We do it every podcast basically,
so we'll do a little mail bag and yeah, you
guys know the drill. You listen on Collins Feed, subscribe
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(02:32):
YouTube page and we're rocking and rolling baby OTAs I
think officially about to start this week. I don't know
if every team's on the field, but every team starts.
Veterans rookies are all together, and we'll spend the next
I don't know month, forty plus days talking some ball
as things happen at those all over the league really,
(02:53):
which is enjoyable before a little summer break. But first,
you know, I got to tell you about my friends,
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(03:16):
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I would highly recommend if you live in one of
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check that out, because it looks as good as it
gets so hockey games, NBA playoff games, Major League Baseball.
I saw the Pirates just called up their young ace
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minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. So let's dive into
the rookie quarterbacks. A lot going on First and Foremost
(04:20):
on Friday. I originally thought it was a pretty big deal,
like I was gonna give eber Flus a lot of
credit when they just go Have you talked to Caleb
Williams how this process the competition of training camp? Starting quarterback?
Is he the starting quarterback? Have you told him he's
a starting quarterback? He's like, no, he's the starting quarterback.
I don't need to tell him that, and I was like,
(04:40):
you know that that's the way to handle it. Cause
one of my things always with some of these coaches,
especially defensive guys, like compete. We got to earn it
in practice. And then I just typed in right before
I hopped on, I'm like, do they even have like
an older veteran on the roster, you know, like a
Flacco just some of those names that are around the league.
(05:03):
They do not. I mean they got like Tyson Badget
and Ripping, So it was an easy one for him.
But I do appreciate just there's no competition, there's no
you know, we'll just we'll start it out. We'll see
where he's at. Mentally like, no, he's the starting quarterback.
I don't care if John middle coops the backup. I
don't care if Joe Montana at sixty years old is
(05:24):
the backup. Regardless who's on the roster, Caleb Williams starter
immediately when everyone gets together on Monday morning obviously at
rookie mini camp and starting the first day, we're all
on the field together sometime this next week or two.
So the Bears, and this is the thing the Packers
have had a huge advantage in that division for thirty years,
(05:45):
they have easily been the best run organization in the
NFC North right, The Bears have been very up and
down with just their organizational structure. The Lions, for the
most part, have been a disaster. Let's face it. I mean,
all Lions fans know these last couple of years is
so cool because it's never felt like this. It's like,
(06:06):
we got real coaches, we got real players, we got
a real plan. Wait are we the Detroit Lions or
we the Pittsburgh Steelers And Minnesota's definitely had their moments
of being well run, but they've also seen some weird
times as well. The Packers have been set the standard
for consistency and now it feels like and this is
(06:26):
why so many people are high on that division is
because a bunch of teams are well run. Now, that's
why you play the games on the field. But you
know the Bears eber Flus with his new look easy,
this guy's are starting quarterback. I would have actually thinking
about it, little shock that they didn't sniff around. I
don't know that five million dollar mark for just a
(06:49):
veteran backup, just basic principles of what it's like to
be in the NFL like, this is usually what we do.
This is how we handled it, even a Flacco type, right,
This is how I prepare. This is what time I
get up. This is what I like to do instead
of just Caleb looks around, he sees Tyson Badget. But
(07:09):
I like where the Bears are headed. And honestly it's
you know, the schedules coming out this week. I think
Bears Packers should be either Sunday or Monday Night football.
Obviously the Chiefs play on Thursday night. There was a
rumor floating around that is Chiefs Ravens. Personally, I would
go Chiefs Chargers. I would go Chiefs Chargers. Jim Harbaugh's
(07:31):
first game Chargers to me, they did that a couple
of years ago. If you remember, Amazon's first game was
chief Chargers and that was with Brandon Staley and it
was fantastic. I would go chief Chargers. But if they
go Chiefs Ravens, I can't complain. And I would go
some route of either Niners, Cowboys Sunday Night or Monday
Night and Packers Bears. Now maybe they'll want to mix
(07:54):
in an AFC team. You could go a little curveball
if you went Packers Bears Monday Night football, that would
be a Monday Night football game. Packers Bears. You could
go Niners Jets, I think would be pretty good. Aaron
Rodgers game, but I think Niners Cowboys forever they loved
going in some you know rotation Cowboys at Giants or
(08:17):
Giants at Cowboys. But the Giants have basically sucked for
you know, eight nine years beside two years ago when
they won nine games. But the Cowboys are a no
brainer to get an enormous number, and the Niners are
top two or three when they're good rating team in
the NFL. So that's probably what they end up doing.
But I do hope that Packers Bears. I think Monday
(08:38):
Night how badass, that Caleb's first game, all the Jordan
love hype. That would be sweet. I do hope they
go hardboll but it does feel like they're gonna go Ravens.
All we've ever talked about when it comes to young
quarterbacks is, you know, guys that get highly drafted, and
I would include second round players. Where do you get drafted,
what is your landing spot right, what team do you
(09:00):
go to? And for the most part, guys that get
drafted high, as we all know, get drafted to such
bad teams. If I hire you out of wherever you
went to college at twenty two to twenty three years
old and I put you in a company that is
an absolute disaster, you individually plot probably will not have
that much success. Ninety nine percent of people cannot rise
(09:26):
above dysfunction when they're young. I know I couldn't, and
I know most people I've ever met could not as well.
But when you get to go to just a normal company,
let alone high functioning one, you are going to be
put in position to succeed. And then as time goes
it weeds out the haves and halves nots. But I
know for my own experience, I got to go to
(09:47):
Fresno State right after I graduated from cal Poly pat Hill,
who had been there for a long time. The program
was successful. It was an incredible landing spot. I got very,
very lucky. I had a lot of friends that graduated,
and you know, when we graduated in like the eight range,
a lot of these companies in the Bay Area were
really taken off, and it was an oracle. Facebook. You know,
(10:11):
Apple had been around for a long time but was
going to another stratosphere and if you got in right there,
a lot of them had a lot of financial success.
It was a good time. So bo Knicks, I wouldn't
say got shpit on, but most people thought that's crazy.
You can't draft bow Knicks there, so earlier today, I'm
(10:31):
kind of bored, just kind of lounging around on Sunday,
grabbed the iPad and I just typed in some basically
cut ups highlights of bo Nicks. And I've watched him
play the last couple of years because I'm a PAC
twelve homer and that conference no longer exists, you know who.
He kind of reminded me of watching him play a
lot of and I thought these two guys were very
(10:52):
similar players in college. Derek's got a better arm, but
Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo and both those guys who
who were drafted in the second round went on relative
to where they were drafted to have a ton of
success and make a ton of money. Now, Derek's career
has been up and down, but I had a front
row seat in the organization that he had to play
(11:14):
in for a long time. And I'm not defending him.
I'm not acting like if he would have gone to
the Pittsburgh Steelers or Andy Reid, he would have been
some top five quarterback. But I think his career looks
a lot different if he doesn't go to one of
the more chaotic places for eight nine years than the
place he went to in the Raiders, and he was
still relatively pretty good. Jimmy Garoppolo is a good example
(11:34):
of a guy. Now he went later in the second
round than Derek. Where'd he get to go? Well, he
immediately gets to go sit in a room with Tom
Brady for three and a half years, be coached by
Josh McDaniels, who's terrible head coach, damn good offensive coordinator,
and be around Bill Belichick. And then when he gets traded,
Belichick trades him to Kyle Shanahan, and his career on
the field, in terms of wins and losses, has a
(11:56):
lot of success. And I watched Bonnicks, I'm like, I
see a lot of those guys, similar size, similar movement.
Both those guys were better athletes when they were younger
and pretty accurate. Now. I wouldn't say he has the
most explosive arm in the draft, but watching him like
he's got a pretty good arm, throws pretty well on
(12:16):
the run, And then it came up on my YouTube
page Sean Payton talking like, yeah he was. We're very,
very excited to have him here, and all we've hammered
home over the years is like where you go to
really matters. Patrick Mahomes obviously is one of the best
players we've ever seen, but we all agree he really
benefited from going to Andy Reid and just a lot
(12:37):
of recent quarterbacks that got drafted, like when Josh Allen.
The Bills took a chance on him. Their offensive coordinator
was Brian da Ball and obviously was very very important
in the growth of him as a player. Jared Goff
was an absolute laughingstock his first year. I mean some
people thought like, is this even an NFL player? Jeff
(12:58):
Fisher gets fired, Sean Vey comes in and the rest
is history. There was a little bump in the road
at the end of his la time, but he's gone
on to have a very very successful career. So I
watched Bo Nicks and any Oregon fan and there's a
lot of them out there go he. I mean, last
year his statistics were insane. The knock on him is
a lot of bubble screens and stuff. Okay, just remove those.
(13:20):
Can he throw on the run? Can he be accurate
down the field? Can he understand the offense? Well? Sean
Payton believes he can. And here's the other thing we know,
Sean Payton is also the offensive coordinator. So did he
get quote unquote overdrafted in the history of the league.
Does a guy like him usually go fourteen? No? But
if you did re drafts, which has never happened in
the history of mankind. But if there ever were guys
(13:43):
like Jimmy Garoppolo, Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, would obviously not
have gone where they went. They would have gone a
lot higher in their drafts. They all would have gone
in the top fifteen, maybe not one overall, but they
ain't going twenty fifth. So if you can look at
it like that, the cost of quarterback inflation is what
(14:04):
it is. We see it every day in our lives.
The cost of everything we do is a lot more.
It's still if you need a car, if you need
a home, like these things are the price. So we
know it's well established now. If there is a quarterback
that has any talent and has any success in college
at a bigger program and has any hype like he's
(14:24):
not lasting, they'll pick fifty anymore. Those days are done.
They're over. No matter how many of these guys like
Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, mac Jones, and Justin Fields flame
out and get moved on for fourth and sixth round picks,
don't get their fifth round option picked up. It didn't
impact this class one iota. But if you're Sean Payton
(14:46):
and you go god, I see a lot of similarities
in those guys who I would have loved to have
as we transition off Drew Brees, because I think I
can win with that guy. And I've always been a
huge fan of the draft from the marketplace standpoint point,
like you don't need to draft that guy right there.
You could have got him two rounds later. But I
hear a lot in the draft, like, you know, this
(15:07):
guy was probably more of a second round pick. Well,
they drafted him at pick thirty one. I'll just use
an example because the Niners took a lot of criticism
for Ricky Priersoll. No clue how this guy's gonna be
in the NFL. I would say Kyle is a pretty
good track record recently of drafting wide receivers and knows
exactly what he wants. Most people would say, that's pretty rich.
(15:28):
You know, he's a top fifty player, but pick thirty one, Well,
they don't pick again, They'll pick sixty four, so they
don't have that. If they like him and there's no
one else in the group that they feel comfortable with,
if he's their highest graded player, why not take him? Now?
When you take a guy like God And this is
what happened to Belichick at the end of his run,
(15:49):
Like God, he just took a guy in the second
round that we had fifth round grades on, Like, that's insane.
When you do stuff like that, I push back. But
when it comes to bo Nicks, like if you view
him anywhere in the world of Jimmy Garoppolo or Derek Carr,
it's an easy pick that has nothing to do with
how it's gonna look. I'm just talking about the value
(16:10):
the guy, and I think a skill set actually is
better than he gets credit for at least, and part
of it is you get you know, there's so much
air taken out of the room when we talked about
Caleb rightfully, so one of the bigger name prospects I
would say of my life. I mean seriously, I would say,
Andrew Luck's probably the most hype prospect of my life.
(16:33):
You know, Peyton Manning, I was in like junior high,
don't quite remember, but obviously he was a highly touted
everyone was talking about him. But part of that draft
was like Peyton Manning, Ryan Lee. I would say, Matt Stafford,
Cam Newton, those guys were really highly touted, and Trevor Lawrence,
and I would put Caleb right in the mix, right
behind Andrew Luck in terms of hype, in terms of
(16:56):
no brainer, in terms of would have been the number
one pick in the draft for multiple years had he not.
You know, Andrew returned to school, Caleb didn't have an option.
If Caleb could have come out last year, he would
have and he would have been the top pick. So
I just think that I just wonder if bo Nicks
is going to be a lot better than people think,
just because I think he's gonna be able to function
(17:16):
that offense, and if he's more talented than people realize. Now,
is there team good enough? Is the talent just on
the roster good enough for the team to be competitive?
There are a lot of unanswered questions. But here's the
one thing I know. The head coach is also the
play caller, and for a long period of time before
everyone has been shitting on him, and he deserved it.
Last year, I mean last early on in the season,
(17:37):
like what's going on part of it. By the end,
it's Russell Wilson. I defended him for the way he
got rode Russell Wilson. You don't like the guy, what's
the point keeping him he didn't sign a contract, get
him out of the building, especially when he's kind of
a weirdo. But that's something to keep an eye on,
it really is. And I love when videos go viral.
This one I just saw on the internet was side
by side of Drake May throwing a football, both of
(17:59):
them throwing like a deep basically a guy down the
seam and Jayden Daniels throwing the football and the ball
is down the field with Jaden Daniels before it's out
of Drake May's hands. And we talked a lot about
this with the with Drake May's situation, like Brian day
Ball was interested, Kevin O'Connell was interested. It was a
(18:20):
project and part of dealing with a project is fixing them.
And there's a lot to work with, the measurables, the
character everything, but like, you got to attempt to fix
some stuff, and it's very very hard. I love golf,
and I played Friday and Saturday, and I got a
(18:41):
lesson probably two months ago, and I've been working on
some things, but I would say the majority of my
shots are muscle memory. And it resorts back any human
being that has played any sport that tries to change
something that is different from what they inherently do, it
can be a very big challenge. So I'm fascinated. Like
(19:03):
I don't blame them for picking them especially, And I said,
if you're telling me, day Ball wanted him, and Kevin
O'Connell wanted them probably, And they've even said this, like
we knew the team's interested. It actually just you know,
hammered home and reiterated our fascination or intrigue and just
love of this player. But for now that the players
(19:25):
on your team for him to be good, you got
to fix them or at least change him. And it's
gonna be very very interesting because you know, Alex van
Pelt was just running out of Cleveland. Now, was that
because Deshaun Watson wanted him out. I don't know. He's
a former quarterback, you know, Gerrod Mayo. I'm sorry. As
of right now, I don't consider he knows anything about offense.
(19:46):
How could he. He's been coaching for five years and
he was a linebacker, and let's face it, most defensive
guys can be hard headed when it comes to the offense.
But I don't think girod Mayo could just stand next
to him and coach him up. So it's it's going
to be be a challenge getting rid of the ball
and accuracy like that's was a downfall of Sam Donald.
He's got a loopier release and he has a big arm,
(20:08):
and he's accuracy can be a problem just from the
size standpoint, movement standpoint, and arm strength standpoint. Sam Donald
has it all, but that that loopy release gives that
extra step to the dB and the accuracy is a
little off. It's something that you got to try to fix.
And I watched Donald last year. He never really fixed it. Now.
It doesn't mean he hasn't improved with his decision decision making,
(20:29):
but it's interesting to see. I like projects. I'm pro
taking big swins, but now now you got to figure
it out. Now it's now, it's on the coaches. The
thing that's not on the coaches is this Joe Burrow situation. Uh,
(20:53):
there was an article that came out on Friday that
you know, he got the wrist surgery last year. And
when I think of ACL or Achilles surgeries, and I
think most of us do, I think we just assume, yeah,
he's gonna be fine eventually, Like the timetables change depending
on who you are. You know, it could be eight months,
(21:16):
could be nine months if you'r Aaron Rodgers, could be
two months, whatever, But you're gonna come back fully like
healthy now, depending on your age. Like I don't expect
Rogers to be as mobile as he was when he
was thirty years old. Same thing with cousins who's never
been that mobile and who's getting older. But when you're
a younger player in his twenties, like Joe Burrow, when
(21:37):
I see surgery, he had surgery, he's gonna be fine,
I just assume one percent over time, right, And this
article said, actually, most surgeries right on ACL's achilles, elbows, whatever,
have a ninety to ninety five percent of success rate.
(21:57):
This specific surgery is actually seventy to seventy five percent.
What this doctor also said that it is basically impossible
to not avoid inflammation in your wrist when you are
using it, especially with a guy like Joe Burrow, who's
just there's no way to get around it. I mean,
(22:18):
you use it every time you throw, and the key
is the moment you feel it, like you gotta be very,
very cautious. And I said this, I've said this multiple times.
When that guy's on, he is as dominant as anybody,
and he's the only really active player because Brady's gone
to take Patrick Mahomes down in the playoffs. And you know,
(22:40):
obviously we've seen his good at LSU and in the pros.
The guy's a fucking star. But there is no debating
these injuries. And listen, maybe this doesn't crop up, but like,
I don't think these stats just come out of nowhere
like it. It's just pretty alarming. So it's it's something
that just time he's moving that thing around or misses
(23:02):
a practice. I think, until we're proven otherwise, it's fair
to be a little concerned, which sucks. I love watching
the guy play. He's one of my favorite players in
the league that that team is a very enjoyable team
to play, just the way you know, they fling it around,
they throw bombs, They're a really really fun offense when
he's on the field. So I'm not I'm rooting for
him to be one hundredcent healthy and it's never to
(23:23):
be an issue again. But I don't know. You read
things like that, you get a little scared, and last
but not least, the moment, Bill Belichick couldn't get a job.
Like Julian Edelman said, Foxborough High wouldn't even hire you,
even though I think if Bill was interested, Foxborough High
might have interest, but was to get on Thursday night
football Amazon Prime or Monday Night Football, which was impossible
(23:47):
because of Joe and Troy. So basically your only option
was could you get in the booth for Thursday night football.
Kirkherbstreet college guy, one of the best college guys of
all time. I don't love him in the NFL. Part
of him and Al have weird chemistry. It's just not
a great broadcast. As someone who's been watching sports broadcasts
for that I can remember for thirty five plus years,
(24:09):
I think we all agree it's it's one of the
rougher Ones. It feels more like a lower level Sunday
game at ten o'clock in the morning Pacific Standard time
than it does one of the marquee games. When you
turn on Sunday Night Football and you get Turrico and Collinsworth,
like they just have really good chemistry, just like al
Michaels and Collinsworth had really good chemistry. Joe Buck and
(24:31):
Troy Aikman have really good chemistry. There's this clunky and
part of it is like a Kirkus in a weird way,
an outsider. And if you just remove herb Street put Belichick,
it would be an incredible way to change the perception.
Because there are two games a week that every owner
in the league, beside the two playing in the game
watch that is Thursday and Monday Night Football. Well that
(24:51):
didn't happen, and I was like, God, I hope Bill
doesn't do some like pregame show or do something stupid.
Those are so dumb that you don't even get any
out of that. Plus, especially on Sundays, most of these
owners don't watch any of that stuff because his perception
is bad. Now, I do think the roast helped change it.
I wonder if the roast was like a pivotal moment
(25:12):
for society when it's just like, yeah, we just say
whatever you want again, let's just let it rip. If
those guys are doing it like it was, it's one
of the most refreshing events I've seen in a long time.
It felt like a moment. It really did problems Tom
Brady for doing that. I know we got paid a
lot of money, but I can't imagine many people of
his statures status would would have pulled the trigger on that.
(25:36):
Maybe he just really hates his ex wife. But it
was announced I think on Friday with Peyton Manning that
Bill Belichick will be on every first quarter of the
Manning Cast and for the first time. I like most people,
the Manning Cast when it first started was really cool.
It was awesome. Well, the moment they hired Joe and Troy,
(26:00):
I just started watching the broadcast, I was like, I
love Peyton and Eli and I like hanging out with them,
but they have weird guests on Zoom and it just
I don't really care, like what Kevin Hart's saying during
the Eagle game, Like I just want to watch the game.
I do think getting Bill Belichick on the first quarter
is would get me, like, get me to change the channel.
(26:21):
And I do think it'll get the owners to change
the channel because one thing he showed at the roast,
and he showed at McAfee with the draft. I saw
some of the clips, and this is like most people
you follow, like on Instagram, write or Twitter or any
your social media channels, you're gonna have a perception. You're
gonna think something about them, especially any famous person that's
(26:45):
like real, that's like fake. It's like reality television on
social media. If you in hell, you might follow some
people you hate. I do it. It's sick, I know,
but I definitely follow some people I hate. I bet
if you met them, they might be nothing like they're
online persona, And hell, you might like him. And I
think most people just assume. I'll Belichick curmudgeon, asshole, tough
(27:07):
to dick, miserable, just not fun. And I wonder if
he can loosen up because he's gonna go on McAfee
during the day on Monday, which his clips, especially if
he lets it loose on a team or a coach,
will definitely go viral and that will be passed around
the NFL world fast and I think him with Peyton
(27:29):
and Eli could be very, very beneficial to his career
because he's no lock to get a job next year.
I know everyone thinks it, but I don't know. You
talk about a seventy four year old guy. Some of
these teams that we think are gonna suck, what if
they don't? Some of these teams that are gonna inevitably
(27:49):
fire coaches, what if their team's just terrible? And he's like,
I'm not even interested in doing that. Maybe he would
be so desperate, But I do think this will go
a long long way of just the owners that had,
let's face it, I mean he got one interview, one
team interviewed, pretty sure, they were like six or seven openings,
and I think this could this could help change it.
(28:10):
And I'm interested to watch. Like I said, I didn't
go to Peyton and Eli at all last year, and
not because I don't like him. I would say universally,
most people enjoy Payton an Eli on tv BS and
about football. It's fun, but like I and part of
it is I do this for a job, Like I
kind of I like locking in and Joe and Troy
are good. I mean, I know Joe Buck on the internet.
(28:31):
Everyone thinks he sucks, Like, yeah, he's actually really good,
probably one of the all time greats. And Troy's kind
of my style, you know, He's kind of a dying
breed of a guy that will just rip people. You know,
that was an awful call by the offensive coordinator. He
watched some of these broadcasts. Everyone's just the greatest. It's like, God,
that's not what we're thinking when we're sitting on our
couch watching this game. We just saw him, you know,
(28:52):
run a quarterback sneak on third and eight. But I
do think he's gonna get a lot of traffic. It's
actually in that first quarter. If I was Joe and Troy,
I'd be like, what is now? Both of them got
enormous amounts of money. I mean, I think Troy signed
for a buck fifty and Buck signed for like eighty
million dollars. But I wouldn't love that because it's gonna
(29:13):
make some people change the channel. Okay, Middlecoff mailbag at
John Middlecoff is the Instagram. You guys probably have Instagram,
So just fireing my dms at John Middlecoff two fs
(29:34):
dms wide open for the pod. I'm curious as to
what you think was going through Raheem Morris's mind to
take Pennix at eight. He hasn't proved himself as a
head coach, and he took a very capable quarterback. I
think he means Cousins, So he basically set himself up
for a bidding war amongst fans and the owner of
the team. I would understand if Blank wanted him, but
(29:58):
it's like he set himself up for failure. You know,
the most underrated part about this entire story has not
been that they fell in love with him the last
month and a half, that Cousins was shell shocked how
much money they gave Cousins, all this stuff. It's just
(30:21):
simply that this guy in his first year and a
GM that has had three seven win seasons, his twenty
one wins in three years, set up their locker room
for weirdness. Because you have to factor in that Cousins,
at least I haven't read. While he might be ready
(30:41):
for week one, he is not going to be participating
on the field in full speed drills for OTAs. So
pendix is this is not some young team or some
veteran team that is like, hey, listen, we wanted cousins.
Young guys. This is a bunch of young guys. Robinson's
second year, Drake London a couple of years in the league.
(31:03):
Kyle Pitts just got his fifth year option picked up.
Like these are young, impressionable people on offense that are
going to be getting the ball with, you know, on
the field, in the huddle, practicing with Michael Pennix for
a month and a half. Who think they're gonna go
to dinner with husbands? Are Pennix? The locker room dynamics.
(31:27):
I heard this about New England forever one reason when
they were winning all the Super Bowls and always drafting
somewhere between like twenty eight and thirty two. While why
Bill often traded out of the first round and even
if they were higher than that was because he never
liked a rookie on these teams that were really good
to come in making a decent amount of money that
(31:48):
he didn't view as some like camp miss player. And
obviously he did draft some guys high, but I think
you have to factor in the locker room dynamics, like
this is not an Excel spreadsheet, These aren't widgets, so
we can argue over the wasted money on Cousins, the
wasted draft pick. Well, they did it. They got the
(32:09):
two guys together, but one guy can't practice, and he's
the guy making forty five million dollars a year. He
has no equity with the fans or the players. None. Yeah,
they saw Cousins be good in the league. But it's
twenty twenty four now and he's in the he's in
the training room, and this kid who is been in
college for five years, ready made starter. Now, I don't
(32:32):
know if he's gonna be good or not. I think
he probably will. I like Michael Pennix as a lot
as a prospect. My point is, no one knows, but
they're gonna see the kids slinging around. I heard someone
like Albert Breer total to Rich Eisen that some people
in that building, because they came from LA right, think
there's like some Matt Stafford there. Well, if there's some
Matt Stafford there, how the fuck Cousin's gonna beat him out.
(32:55):
And it just shows you, like they the coaches fell
in love with him. The coaches fell in love with them.
Because this pick doesn't happen without the coach. This is
not a GM pick. It's just not You could have
taken Spencer Rattler in the third round. If you wanted
to take a young quarterback, you would have taken a
defensive player there. Oh, there wasn't a guy we had greater.
(33:18):
Just take the defensive tackle from Texas. No one's complaining.
I get the defensive lineman the ends, but they easily
could have taken the defensive tackle from Texas right there.
And the moment they made this pick, it's weird, and
the moment things get weird in locker rooms, there's usually
(33:38):
no coming back from it. So I just anyone comparing
this to the Packers is the dumbest thing of all time.
Jordan Love was one a complete project, and two he
was going in to a quarterback room led by Aaron
Rodgers who had multiple MVPs and was easily one of
(33:59):
the best players in the league, even off a down year,
had no chance to beat him out. The fans knew it,
the players knew it, My mom knew it. We all
knew it. That ain't here because I heard someone say
this the other day and I was like, guy, that's
kind of right. It's not like they're buying Peyton Manning
in his prime this what does he really accomplished between
(34:21):
and I listen, Kirk Cousins, solid player, but he is
a regular season player. You're not getting some like all
time great, you're getting one of the highest paid players
of all time, but he's not exactly mister accomplished when
it comes to the resume in terms of like playoff victories,
dominating performances on primetime games. I think the risk of
(34:43):
all the human dynamics.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Is nuts.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I really do. I think it's I think it's really
really high question for the Mailbag. You're the best NFL
podcast out there, Carly, and I like you, buddy. Teams
are concerned aboutrunning quarterback sneaks because of injury risk. Why
do more teams not put the backup quarterback in these situations. Well,
if you put the backup quarterback in those situations, the
(35:11):
other team knows, like they one hundred percent know what's coming.
So I think that's coaches just hate, you know, tells
on their places. So you would never like when you
bring a certain guy in if it was just like
he's only running quarterback sneaks, That's why they would never
do it. Were there ever any players in the NFL
(35:33):
that you remember that had a fear of flying, kind
of like Madden in the bus. No, because it'd be
impossible to play college football without flying. So think about
the overwhelming majority of guys come from Power five schools.
You gotta fly, cal Pauly, they had to fly to
play Montana or whatever. So it's you can't really play
(35:56):
football at a high level in college of the pros
and not fly. How did you last year? In the
middle of season? Haven't missed an episode since Mailbag? I
watched the Eagles this grant all access twenty four draft
video on YouTube. I did as well. One thing I
noticed was that a couple of days before the draft,
the Eagles had a red Star meeting where the scouts
(36:19):
could put a star on a guy that they really
liked and bring him up to the rest of the group.
I don't know if you were part of those, but
from your perspective, what's the point. Everyone brings up different
players and says the same things about each player tough, resilient,
high football like, etc. How much does Howie a GM
(36:40):
take from this meeting. It's only two days before the draft,
so how much of an impact can it have? I
feel like it's more for the scouts to feel like
they're heard. I think it's more. I think a lot
of teams do versions of this. The point is leading
up to the draft, there is so much happening, so
many names out there. Board's huge. Your group has spent
(37:04):
so much work on grading all those players on that
draft board. It's basically to kind of get a little
clarity in the room, right because there's so much noise.
There's so much white noise. There's so many just shit
flying around. And if you're Howie're, if you're a GM,
it just gives you a chance to hear like six, seven,
(37:24):
ten names that you just know, like if we're in position,
because again, a lot of it's out of your control.
And one of the names on there was Jeremiah Trotter.
That's a bad example because he he's an eagle guy,
so it's like they would have been talking about him
no matter what. But just any player that if they've
been talking about hammered Home and this scout hammered Home
(37:45):
in the Red Star and then it's the fourth round
and how he's thinking, should we just take this guy?
Or you know we were gonna trade, but now instead
of making a trade. Let's just draft this player because
we all liked him. He came up in the Red
Star meeting. But I agree, it's not like you couldn't
quantify the power of that meeting. Is it necessary? Would
(38:09):
their draft have look the same without it, because like
you said, they've already talked about these players and people
know they like them. I think it's just a hammer
at home. It's just it's like practice. It's like, did
you really need that last rep on Friday afternoon? Did that?
Was that the reason you won the game on Sunday? No?
But it helped, So I think it's just repetition. Listen
(38:35):
how he's making seven figures but no one else in
the room is, and most of the guys are closer
to one hundred grand than three hundred. So it it
the And this is not like some nine to five job.
This is one hundred hour week job. So given the
amount of people, even my girlfriend's friends who just rushing
(38:59):
it in business, rushing it. And I'm talking funny whenever
I read about pay for younger people, I mean, her
friends are in their late twenties, early thirties. I mean,
I was like, Jesus didn't sniff that type coin at
the time, but they ain't working seventy hour weeks when
they're doing it. Because you know, you get in the
right industry at the right time. You're good at sales, whatever, football,
(39:23):
no matter what it's like, it are long fucking days,
long days, nine ten months a year. So for the
equivalent of the work ethic, it's like geez, you get
out of it, you realize, God, it's not really adding up.
But you got to make those guys feel included. That's
(39:43):
why the video that went viral of the Colts, I
don't know if he saw it, but one of their
scout was just hammering this guy all spring long, the
dB from Auburn, I forget his name, but he just
loved him. He loved him. He pushed it, he pushed them.
Then in the fifth round they looked up at the
board and Chris is like, screw it, we're taking them.
(40:05):
So he calls the dB from Auburn and he looks
back and all the scouts are in the room and
he calls up I think the guy's name is Jamie
the scout, and he says, come up here. You're making
the phone call. And part of it is like you
got to keep your people included if you're in a
management position, because it's easy to just feel like you're
(40:27):
just an independent contractor what's the point of this. I'm
just evaluating guys to evaluate them. No one actually cares
what I think. Even if they don't actually care what
you think, you're gonna lose them and you'll build a
bad culture. It's just business, one on one. So I
hear you with does the overall impact of some of
this stuff matter? You know, it's hard to know the
(40:51):
specific return on investment of all this craft, but I
think it is very very important to have people like
they feel included in the process, because it's very very
easy as a scout to just feel like you're not
even part of the draft process. You're like, wait, I
drove city to city, not making much money, eating subway
sandwiches and powering down mountain dew and had no life.
(41:14):
Didn't see my Beyonce, my family, my kids. I just
grinded my balls off, and now we get to the
draft meeting, which is the fun part. Why I did
all the work and now no one even cares what
I think. That sucks. I mean, it really really sucks.
Think about whatever you're doing in any of your company.
(41:35):
After a while, it's like you spend a lot of
time doing something you want to feel like it had
a purpose, like there was something behind it, and when
it doesn't feel that way. So I think it's more
for that, like the uh kind of bringing the group together.
I do think there's a tangible value just because you
hammer home the names. You see some of these boards,
(41:58):
even on some of these videos that are all blurred out,
I mean, you can barely see that. There are so
many names up there. It's just easy to get, you know,
kind of convoluted. You look at it, you're like, did
we like this guy? We like this guy? Recently news
broke that eighty on Mitchell A Donnie Mitchell, Adonna Mitchell.
I think I'm saying his name right to the wide
receiver from Texas on the Colts would be wearing number
(42:20):
ten to signify the ten receivers that were taken before
him in the draft. I'm a Colts fan, but can't
help but think this is cringe and immature, especially coming
from someone that dropped in the draft because of possible
character issues. Is my thinking out of line? What do
you think my first reaction is. I just don't care.
(42:42):
I don't think it matters. It would have been more
unique when less guys. There was a small, small handful
of guys playing receiver that didn't have a number in
the eighties. But how many of the receivers now wear
ten to nineteen you know that have numbers in the
teens or I guess even single digits. So to me,
(43:02):
with the number change, it's like we don't even notice.
It's an easy thing to say once he gets good.
I don't think it matters at all. And I don't
think it's a reflection like he might have worn ten
no matter what, because the numbers on the team are
already taken. Yeah, I don't. I don't think it impacts,
(43:26):
like from a I can't make a judgment from a
character standpoint because he wants to wear ten. I mean,
kind of wide receivers in the league war ten. Now,
why wouldn't the Steelers play justin fields at running back?
Ravens put Lamar and Flacco on the field together, but
they split Flacco wide, which was worthless. Haysom Hill had
found a role as a second quarterback on the field
(43:47):
and has even thrown passes. Is there a downside to
having a guy back there that can run well and
also throw like a semi legit quarterback, seems like it
could create a problem. Yeah, I mean they're already talking
about putting a kick returner. People laugh, but it's like
Justin Fields would be a dynamic kick return I saw
Sean Payton said, I don't think people realize how many
(44:09):
explosive plays are gonna come from this kickoff because there's
not like a line of defense. Right when you're playing
a defense, there are guys in the line of scrimmage,
the defensive line, linebackers backed off, you know, anywhere from
three to six seven yards, and then you have multiple
corners on the outside as well as safeties. The safety
(44:31):
is essentially the kicker, and everyone's at the line five
yards away from you know, the people trying to block them.
So if you reverse field and can make a guy
miss or break a tackle, I think we are going
to see countless touchdowns and definitely big plays. So Justin
(44:52):
Fields is proven to be an incredible open field runner. Like,
let's face it, he's got a big arm, but he's
not accurate, doesn't play well from the pocket. So far,
he hasn't been a good quarterback, though, I would like
to see what Arthur Smith can do it. There is
no one that argues open field ball in his hands.
He's one of the more dynamic players in the league. Now,
it's different catching the ball than just getting a snap
(45:15):
to you. But yeah, I mean I definitely would have
because Russell Wilson no longer like the athletic element of
his game is long gone. I think we're gonna see,
especially if they think after training camp, like you know,
making this guy good quarterbacks not necessarily possible. Why wouldn't
you just utilize the skill set and just turn him
(45:36):
into a hybrid. I think it could happen fast, like
Lamar approved really quickly that he could throw if and
it's gonna be harder for fields. If Russell's just the
starter and he's not playing, you might as well want
to use the player. But the problem is your backup quarterback,
and then if Russell were to get hurt, you'd kind
of be screwed. So it is a slippery slope. Because
(45:57):
that's my thing with the Bears, like, what if kayleb
got hurt, You're gonna play with Tyson Badget. You know,
you do have to put some thought into the backup
quarterback because you're one just broken foot, broken finger, you know,
just broken leg away from the quarterback. Concussion, just a concussion,
(46:18):
and then all of a sudden like that guy starts
multiple games, so I hear you. Hopefully they do that.
You think the internet would break if Justin Fields returned
to kick in the new kick off rule and took
it to the crib. That'd be bad ass. Appreciate everyone
listening the volume
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