3 & Out - Does Aaron Rodgers deserve MORE credit, what's going on in Cincy, JJ Watt or Aaron Donald

ohn answers all of your questions from if Aaron Rodgers is actually underrated, the latest drama with the Bengals, who was better; JJ Watt or Aaron Donald, and much more in this episode's massive mailbag segment.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing?
John Middlecock three and our podcasts. Hopefully everyone is doing
well out there in the real world and enjoying life.

(00:25):
NFL teams all over the country have broken for the summer.
They are on now five or six week little break.
Players obviously keep working out and staying in shape. Coaches
probably hang out their family they don't see that much
during the season and have a few cocktails and hang out.
And today I thought, you know what, let's empty the

(00:46):
mailbag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram
two f's and I just answered a bunch of questions.
So we will attack that today. I think Sunday i'll
record after the US opener reaction on I'm not sure
on the day, but we will release the John Schneider,

(01:07):
the general manager of the Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl champion,
his interview next week sometime. Keep you updated on that.
Got some big news also with that involves Coward that
I'll talk about next week. Kind of exciting, be a
little curveball, be fun. Other than that. Yeah, if you

(01:30):
if you listen on Collins Feed, make sure you subscribe
to three and Out We also got a YouTube channel.
All of our content is up there as well, and yeah,
you can find us, so make sure you subscribe to
Three and Out Golf podcast also goes on there. Everything
goes up on YouTube, and yeah, we got you covered.
But first, you know, I got to tell you about
my friends, my partners, and the official ticketing app of

(01:51):
this podcast, Game time best ticketing ap of ever use.
Someone actually just forwarded me a video from the sphere
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It's not even that far away from me. It's a
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(02:15):
James Dolan might regret firing his head basketball coach given
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(02:57):
see if my phone will work. I think I need
a new iPhone. I've been thinking this for a while
because it's just not been working. It's one of those
where you've had it forever and it just it might
be coming down the home stretch. Question for the mailbag
cowboy fan. Naturally, a topic that comes up is whether
Dak or Romo was the better player in terms of

(03:19):
career numbers in playoff success. They seem to be very
similar personally. I think Romo had more arm talent. Well,
Dak is a more accurate and has better in tangibles.
I ultimately see both as the type of quarterback with
whom a strong team around them can have you contending

(03:39):
such as perty GoF Hurts, etc. What do you think
love the show? Thanks for keeping us entertained. It's a
good question. It'll be interesting to see the version of
Dak Prescott that comes back after this this hamstring injury.
Is his mobility completely gone? Because I think there are
different iterations of him as a player. I mean, on

(04:00):
when he was younger and they had some good teams,
he was a pretty I mean, he's never had a
huge arm. I mean, like you said, I think Romo
probably had a little more pop. But Dak was a
really versatile player, and I think that athleticism and me
and Colin have talked about this, like during the fall
he is his ability to run now after that ankle,
I mean shattered his ankle, it doesn't really exist. So

(04:22):
he's a pocket quarterback. He's actually I mean it's gonna
sound crazy, but he's kind of like a less mobile
Alex Smith. Now. Now, when their team was good several
years ago, and he was really good in the playoffs,
I thought they were gonna be a major problem and
then he just shiited the bed. So you know, Tony
Romo had a little pizaz to him. That there was

(04:44):
a little like there was almost like a collegiate aspect
to him far Van when I'm I don't I'm not
comparing him to Brett Farv, but there was just an
entertainment factor, like had no clue what was gonna happen.
Maybe he was like a better playmaker, but he was
hard to trust as well. It's a pretty good question.

(05:04):
I think if if your team was just awesome, you know,
you could probably flip a coin because you're not gonna
feel great about either guy in the playoff game. So
it's like, yeah, both guys could throw you a bunch
of touchdowns and you could win twelve thirteen games, But
when you know January fifteenth comes and you're playing another
fourteen win team, you're not gonna have faith. So that's

(05:25):
where I think it's like does it really even matter?
Or you could argue they're very similar guys. I can't
speak to Romo's intangibles, but I didn't view him. I
guess I just viewed them as like equals in terms
of like good guys, no issues. Yeah, I don't know.
Romo was a bad intangible guy. Obviously. Dak is thought

(05:48):
of like a high level, intangible guy. I assume Romo
was too, but clearly you know Romo had the issue
with Terrell Owens. I would say that aids pretty well
on Romo side. Guys like him. I mean that's there.
I can see when you're Jerry, when you're the coaching staff,

(06:09):
It's like everyone likes this guy. He's producing on the field,
like it. Those type players are really really hard to
get rid of. I mean they really are. That's why
they wouldn't have got rid of Romo if his back
didn't fail him, and it's why they have shown zero
idea or thought of pivoting off Dak. I want to

(06:29):
break this into two parts. One heard your podcast with Coward.
I know Rogers has a bit has had a big
fall from Grace, but I feel like I'm going crazy.
This dude is the best thrower of the football I've
ever seen in my life, with Mahomes probably being second.
The way the media and people on social media talk
about this dude, I feel like it's absolutely crazy. I
know he's underwhelmed in his career, but I know this

(06:51):
team has failed him a lot. Saying this dude had
a peak of less than ten years to me is asinine.
I always felt like he got hurt by the fact
that he didn't have an NFL owner. That being said,
this dude was amazing. Am I crazy for thinking the
way we cover this guy is idiotic. He needs to
stay out of the media and not make everything about him.

(07:12):
But he's a first ballot Hall of Famer in a
living legend. Well, I mean the last couple of years
have been a little weird. There's there's no way around that.
I didn't agree with the way he was covered in
twenty twenty twenty one. The immunization thing was, you know,
let's face it, the media politically, I mean, they all
lean one way, especially when it came to COVID. He

(07:34):
was not people internally in NFL front offices, NFL coaching staffs,
and definitely in NFL locker rooms were not looking at
him weird during that situation. So that situation happened, and
that's where I felt like before he was just I
guess he was a little polarizing, but I feel like
that's when it got took another step and then, I mean,

(07:57):
let's face it, when you start doing darkness retreats, like
people are gonna think you're weird, and we're allowed to.
And I'm all for doing whatever it takes to improve yourself.
But when you're public about it and you tell people
about it, people are gonna judge you. They just are.
People talk shit about Tom Brady, but like Himmi n
Avocado ice cream and him doing all a bunch of

(08:18):
weird stuff and making out with this kid, it works.
He wins. When you win, no one can say shit.
You know, Rogers that last year in Green Bay didn't win,
they didn't make the playoffs. Then he goes to the
Jets and you from his Achilles to last year like
it didn't go well. So when you win, no one
can say anything. Michael Jordan got drunk before games, gambled

(08:38):
all the time, was an asshole. No one cares why
because he beat the shit out of everybody on the court.
Like all that matters is winning, and that's the one
thing Rogers like. He gets compared. I mean, his era
was Peyton and Tom, and obviously Tom is just kind
of unassailable because he's got all the rings. Peyton took

(08:59):
a lot of crime over his career, but he won.
He went to four Super Bowls and won two of them. Now,
you're right. I mean, it's not all Rogers' fault. And
he is a living legend. I mean, he's one of
the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league. But
his peak wasn't as long as you think because he
didn't start those first three years of his career, so

(09:21):
he just didn't I'm pulling up his stat page right now.
So he didn't become a starter till eight which first
year starting was pretty solid through twenty eight touchdowns. But
let's say like became a really good player. Nine, they
go eleven and five, he's throwing thirty touchdowns. So from
nine to basically, I mean McCarthy gets fired in what

(09:46):
eighteen Rogers did not have a good year. In eighteen
he threw twenty five touches. He didn't he doesn't throw
many picks, but that was always like a coward knock
on him. Part of the picks is like, eh, I'm
not willing to make throws that other guy like Mahomes,
Josh Allen and Lamar will attempt sometimes. So I'm like,
am I cooking the books on my number? No one's
calling him in Ron or Bernie Baitoff here, but there's

(10:09):
a little manipulation and so his career nine he did
break his collarbone in the one year McCarthy got fired
kind of out of down year. Yeah, I mean his
peak was probably twelve thirteen years. It's not all his fault,
like he didn't start right away. But you know, his
peak is not as long as Manning and Brady's and

(10:29):
those are Drew Brees, those are his you know peers,
his contemporaries, first bout Hall of Famer, probably the greatest
player in the history of the Packers. Like no one's
arguing that. But when you start doing you know, documentaries
about listen, I'm not anti drugs that help you out mentally,
but most humans are not doing ayahuasca. So you start

(10:50):
talking about doing fucking ayahuasca in the jungle next to
the jaguars and the monkeys, you know, I mean, people
are gonna make fun of you. So I think there's
two different sectors here. I think there's the media, who
takes themselves way too seriously that if you've seen like
the polling, most human beings don't give a shit what
they think about, right, So their hatred towards rogers, you know,

(11:12):
guys like Florio and stuff is very politically driven. Most
fans of football, I would include myself, are much more
I would say sarcastic in the way that they talk
about Rogers. It's not as serious. But it's also like
you don't get to just smoke pyote peyote in a
desert and think like, we can't make a little fun

(11:34):
of you. So like it's he gets made fun of,
but Tom Brady gets made fun of. Part of being
like a super famous guy is people talk about you.
I mean, it's it's just it happens, you know. It's like,
I don't know what else to say. Sports media made
everything Rogers ever did or said into an absolute massive deal.

(11:56):
Do you think if Aaron just kind of rolled under
the radar and didn't say much, he'd be looked at
like a top five quarterback all time? I think a
lot of talking heads play revisionist history and forget the
four MVPs. Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you. I think
a huge, huge pivot point for Aaron was the immunization comment,

(12:17):
where the media was like, I just think that's when
they really turned on him. They really did, and they
you know, he because he used that word. Where guys
like cousins or I mean, there was a lot of
guys in the NFL that didn't get it. Hell, I
know coaches that refused to get I mean, it was

(12:38):
not like he was not alone, right. I remember the
Golden State Warriors, there was a mandate in San Francisco
for Andrew Wiggins to be able to play home games.
If he didn't get it, he wasn't going to be
allowed to play. But you could be a road player
and play the Warriors and the mandate didn't count. So
he didn't want to get it. Obviously, looking back, a

(12:58):
healthy guy in his twenties definitely did not need it,
had no choice, right, So, like it was a very
it's a very controversial issue in the locker rooms. Why
these guys are young, the peak of health, yet they're
being forced to do something most of them did not
want to do. They're not alone. A lot of society
was that way as well, and the media was all

(13:19):
on the other side, do it or else we will
fucking destroy you. So then when that happens, Aaron then
has this huge grudge against them. At least this is
my take on it, and then he goes like overboard
on all this other stuff. Which again I think most
people are making fun of them about the ayahuasca, the
darkness retreats. I mean, if you do a darkness retreat,

(13:41):
even if you tell me there are a lot of benefits, Like,
people are going to make fun of you. And I'm
not talking about some dude that went to big Ja
school that's sixty years old to overweight, that writes for
the local paper. I'm just talking about me, you and
normal human beings, like we would make if one of
my friends on a group tech said, Hey, in two weeks,

(14:02):
I'm headed to Ecuador and I'm just gonna be in
a hut and there's gonna be no light and they
call this thing a darkness retreating. For three days, they
give you some water, they give you some protein, and
it's just no AirPods, no phone. Is gonna be me,
my thoughts and the jungle air. You think you'd be like,

(14:22):
oh yeah, chartlie, sweet idea, that'd be fun as fuck awesome.
Let me know how it goes. You think we'd go, like,
what are you talking about. As a proud Virginia Tech
graduate born and raised in the Commonwealth, I grew up
on the glory days of Beamer when Beamer ball and
stars like Michael Vick, di'angelo Hall, and Cam Chancellor electrified

(14:46):
Lane Stadium and put the Hokies on the national stage,
culminating in the ninety nine National Championship Game. Since Beamer's
retirement in fifteen, Virginia Tech has struggled to rise above
the mediocrity just inconsis and seasons under Fuente and now
Brent Fry, we got absolutely ran through in state recruiting

(15:08):
and kids do not view Virginia Tech as it once
was in state. Meanwhile, Deon Sanders and Colorado has leveraged
his superstar status and the Deon effect to attract top
talent through the transfer portal like Hunter. Shador Sanders and
the number one offensive tackle in the class last year.
Given Michael Vick's recent appointment as the head coach at

(15:30):
Norfolk State, question for the POD is the real Dion effect?
Real do you feel as a program that basically I
cut off the question, but I remember taking a screenshot
of it, like do you need a big name, famous
guy in this modern day landscape? The reason Deon Sanders won,

(15:50):
I mean he had a unique relationship with Travis Hunter
as a kid. But the ot the number one player.
You were landing players because of money. So if you
have a lot of money and you could pay guys
the last couple of years, you could land big recruits.
The reason BYU has the number one basketball player is

(16:11):
because they paid them a lot of cash. The reason
Michigan got this quarterback last year is because Larry Ellison
and crew gave him like twelve to fifteen million dollars guaranteed.
So why Nico ended up at Tennessee out of high school?
They gave him eight million dollars guaranteed over four years.
Like it's it's not This isn't about like, can you

(16:34):
can you resonate with my parents at the dinner table
while while we're while we're eating appetizers. No one gives
a fuck. I'm not saying that you can't, like there's
can't be some human interaction. But over the last several years,
if I'm offering you one hundred thousand dollars and another
team's offering you eight hundred thousand dollars, you're going to

(16:54):
the team that is offering you way more money. It's
all been about the money, point blank, end of story.
It hasn't been about the history of the program or
Frank Beemer and how great their special teams were, and
you know, Michael Vick went here in nineteen ninety nine,
it's twenty twenty five. Can you get me a range

(17:15):
rover Ordnali because if you can't, then Nebraska can see
ya audios. I mean, that's that's just that's really what
it's become. I mean, I think we overthink when I
hear people talking about recruiting, or even the last couple
of years when like so and so was the National
Recruiter of the Year, It's like, give me a I've

(17:35):
always thought, you know, Football Scoop does a good job,
Like it's a website that a lot of coaches look at.
They're just pretty dialed in with college football and they
always have awards at the end of the year like
National and Rivals did to like National Recruiter of the Year.
It's like, guys, the best recruiters usually at the biggest schools,
handing out brown bags. This is before nil. They're not

(17:57):
just recruiting because they have a good personality. Like say,
it has a big personality, But I got news for you.
Alabama was paying premiums. You know, it's funny everyone always
looked at John Calipari like he's just buying players, like
coach k wasn't. What the fuck are we talking about?
Nothing ever bothered me more than the disingenuous nature of
some people that covered college football pretending that in basketball

(18:20):
and football people were not getting paid. I'm not against it,
never have been. But when people pretended like this is
Jay billis always used to drive me nuts. It's like, Jay,
your school is paying a premium for all these players? Good? Rightfully? So,

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Speaker 1 (21:26):
I read the comments about JJ in the take you
and Colin had. While I don't necessarily disagree most of
the Commons sections did, they had some good points. One
of them was that if the Vikings are so close
to a championship roster, why would they not sign Sam?
You and Colin said they wanted to. Also, you said
Sam or JJ never threw the ball at Michigan, and

(21:50):
while that is statistically true, it's completely taken out of context.
They ran the ball on first and second on the ground,
and oftentimes JJ would bail them out on third and long.
Well only had Andrew Luck throw the ball four times
more per game, and the team didn't have the offensive
line that Michigan did. Also, JJ won the Natty as
a gunslinger and IgM Academy and then transferred to Michigan.

(22:14):
Given those points, what is your take? Comparing JJ McCarthy
to Andrew Luck is pretty laughable. Andrew Lock would have
been the number one pick in every draft for the
last twenty five years. Trying to think even a player
that maybe Stafford because he had a bigger arm, would

(22:35):
have been the argument. But I still would imagine Luck
would have gone number one over Stafford. JJ McCarthy was one, two,
three the fifth quarterback taken in his own class. The
fifth quarterback taking his own class. He's not nearly the
prospect of guys in his own class. So it's like,

(22:57):
I hope he bailed him out. I mean, the guy
was a top fifteen pick. The point is, if they
wanted to resign Sam, they weren't gonna give a guy
one hundred million dollar contract. I don't blame them after
those last two weeks. But JJ McCarthy's a great unknown.
Could he be good? Of course he could. Could it
not go well? Are there similarities to Michigan? Yes, there are,

(23:21):
But the difference is when JJ was at Michigan, their
coach called a lot of run plays. Kevin O'Connell likes
to pass the ball. That's what he does. He wants
to throw the ball. So if JJ can throw the ball,
they'll be okay. If he can't, they're gonna have issues.
Great show. Listening to your take on the Pittsburgh and
Rogers brings me back to everyone always saying the teams

(23:44):
that the worst place to be is in the middle.
Does bringing him in make sense in the long term plan?
Wouldn't it be better to roll with the second tier
quarterback and even trade TJ and rebuild, especially when their
quarterback class is building up to be good. Starting Mace
and Rudolph would probably get you in the top five
or ten picks. They're just not going to do it.

(24:05):
So I think when you look at the situation is
which I respect. You know, I saw Utah hire Danny
Ainge's son to be their GM in. One of the
things he said in the press conference is like, we're
not going to be tanking anymore. Imagine even having to
say that, yeah, we're not going to tank anymore. I
mean that's obviously that's a different sport, but I mean

(24:26):
it's it's ingrained in the culture in basketball is tanking
and football it is just not only not tolerated. Coaches
and players refuse to do it because at any moment,
as a player, you can be cut and football, at
any moment you can get fired, right regardless how many
years you have left. So everyone tries, and then the
nature of the sport you gotta try. So everyone's trying.

(24:48):
But you know, the Cleveland Browns are thinking a big
picture with some of their moves. The Steelers are obsessed
on a yearly basis, which for one hand you have
to respect. But over the course of the last like
six seven years, like, guys, we've kind of stalled out here.
We're a well run organization. We're never gonna suck. But
when we look at the Bills, when we look at

(25:08):
the Ravens, who aren't even on the level, those two
teams cannot beat the Chiefs when it matters. We can't
sniff those two teams, let alone the Chiefs. So what
are we gonna do? And the answer is like, we're
just gonna keep trying to win nine ten games, which
is what they're gonna do. And your idea of like
should they trade TJ and starting that, They're never gonna

(25:30):
do that. They're just never gonna do that. So you know,
they're depending on a forty one year old player who
doesn't move like he used to. As someone said earlier,
he still throws the ball. Well, I've always argued, like
Dan Marino, I bet if you just gave him a
football and went to a park right now and you

(25:51):
just watched him throw like a twenty yard spiral, you'd
be like, damn Marino can sling that pill. Aaron Rodgers
gonna be able to throw the ball until he seventy
years old. But what made him a great player was
the ad lib the instincts, the movement. Right, he can
make a great throw from the pocket, But like he
was the total package, and that's not quite the same now.

(26:16):
I think Arthur Smith said this yesterday, like we didn't
trade for DK and sign Aaron to run the wing
t So they're gonna push the ball down the field.
But where they need to have success. And this is
what Matt Lafleur did when he got the Green Bay job,
is they ran the ball and slowed down the game.

(26:36):
So if you get this kid they drafted from Iowa,
I think he's gonna be a beast. Hand him the
ball hand Jalen war in the ball. Utilize your tight ends.
They got multiple tight ends. I watched Rogers press conference yesterday.
He was like the Washington kid, the dude from Georgia.
He's like, he reminds me of Mercedes Lewis. They got Friarmuth,
so they got two tight ends. They got a couple

(26:57):
of running backs and just slow down the game and
play big time defense. They're gonna give TJ. Watt an extension.
I'm sure they just drafted the dude in the first
round to play defensive tackle. They got Mika Fitzpatrick and
kind of get back to some of their roots. So
I would expect, you know, the Steelers to kind of
look like an old school team, and if they're gonna

(27:19):
have success, that's what they're gonna have to do a
lot like when Arthur Smith was with Mike Rabel in Tennessee.
Not sure if you know this, but is Shamar Stewart
technically a free agent or is he a Bengals player
for a certain length of time even if he doesn't
sign the contract. I'm glad you brought this up because

(27:40):
I wanted to talk about Shamark Stewart to answer your question.
They own his rights now. I think technically, if he
didn't sign the contract over the course of the year,
he could re enter the draft in twenty twenty six,
but he would have to sit out the entire season,
which you know, I think he was a fringe going

(28:01):
into the draft top fifteen, top twenty pick. The Bengals
took him right around what's seventeen with not playing a year,
where would he get drafted and he would have to
sit out and obviously wouldn't make any money this season,
it would be a complicated situation. I would expect that
was a betting man that this will get worked out,

(28:24):
but this situation has kind of jumped the shark. And
I don't remember, you know, before twenty eleven and they
redid the CBA, there was just like a there was
a lot of back and forth with the contract negotiations,
right and typically it was these JaMarcus Russell and he's

(28:48):
had these huge holdouts because you were talking a astronomical
amount of money that's kind of ended. Every once in
a while you get them back and forth, but for
the most part, you get these scenarios where it's like,
this is the deal, just sign it, and guys just
sign it, because that's just it's like a slotted in
and this situation for him to say kind of shit

(29:08):
on the Bengals also bring up Trey Hendrickson and then
leave before the camp ended. You're like, this has become
a problem. And speaking of problems, let's welcome you to
Chasing Challenges, brought to you by Microsoft in the NFL.
Just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is the
key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI

(29:32):
solutions simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology
to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we will
explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the
NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing,

(29:53):
Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say bring it on.
This week, we're discussing the challenged faced by the Cincinnati Bengals.
I think we've talked about this a couple times. Eventually
I just thought like, he's gonna eventually sign, this will
go away, and then the kid was like, this is ridiculous.

(30:16):
I'm out of here. So as as Shane, one of
our producers here at the volume and for a show,
texted me that this guy just left while the guy
that he was replaced or drafted to replace is also
holding out. So safe to say the Bengals got some issues,

(30:40):
and I saw their center was speaking to the media
like listen, hopefully this can get worked out. There's no
animosity in the locker room. This is a bizarre organization
and they have had a lot of issues over the years.
I mean, they once had a star quarterback that just
say I quit, not like I'm retiring, like Barry Sanders
or Calvin or Patrick Willis like, Yeah, my body's given

(31:02):
up on me. I don't want to play anymore. I'm
retiring early. This is like I quit under no circumstances.
Can I ever play for you again. I still want
to play football, but if I got to play football
for you guys, I'd rather just sit at home with
my family. I'm not sure what happens here because the
Bengals have kind of been embarrassed now and one thing

(31:23):
they've shown and I think anyone that knows an old
school you know, I would say someone with the kind
of an archaic mindset, it's hard for them to pivot.
And the Bengals have proven that they've been stubborn over
the years in general, and now this rookie who's never
played a snap in the NFL is putting them on blast.

(31:46):
It's one thing to go through a contract dispute and
have issues it happens. It's another thing to make it
this public. And now that he's left camp, I actually
think Mike Brown and the front office might dig in
more so. It's like both people, it's like a road
rage situation where you're both mad at each other and
you pull up to each other next to each other

(32:07):
at the stoplights, and you're both flipping each other off.
Who's gonna put their hand down first? I don't know.
And clearly Shamar Stewart and his agent and the way
that they're going over this are not happy. I mean,
the Bengals cannot be thrilled with this situation. And this
is what we talk about all the time. Zach Taylor

(32:27):
being as a head coach, his job is to massage
all of this because eventually he's gonna need Trey Hendrickson,
He's gonna need Shamar Stewart. I mean, a huge part
of the reason this team, with Joe Burrow having an
MVP type season, Jamar Chase having one of the best
seasons I've ever seen from a wide receiver, missed the
playoffs was because their defense sucked and they're two in

(32:50):
theory best defensive linemen are just like at odds with
the team over finances in one, we don't even know
if he can play yet. It's like, is Shamar Stewart
good I don't know. I know Trey is, but Trey
clearly is not happy. And this is one of those
situations that you know the Bengals are truly there's a
small list of these teams still but kind of a

(33:11):
mom and pop shop. And it's not Zach Taylor is
not the one in charge of the finances. Honestly, he
has no pull him situation like this. So luckily they're
going to summer break. But sometimes everyone take a deep breath.
But training camp's not that far away. I mean, if
Shamar Stewart is not gonna show up, are they not

(33:33):
going to give in? And if they do give in,
what was the whole point of this to begin with?
And while dealing with this situation, are they ever what
are they gonna do with Trey? Are they gonna pull
the trigger and trade for him or trade him to
someone else? Would someone be willing to trade for him,
because not only would you have to give them probably
a first round pick, you'd have to give trade probably
one hundred million dollars, So it's not like you're getting

(33:54):
him cheap. So it's a complicated situation. And Zach Taylor,
who most people think, I think, average coach who benefits
from having Joe Burrow and some sweet offensive players. I
don't think anyone's confusing him with an Andy Reid with
a Sean Payton. But this is a situation that wouldn't
be easy for anyone. That's it for this week's Chasing challenges.

(34:15):
Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps
and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive
your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you
can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions, and
reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft dot com Slash challengers to

(34:36):
learn more. Cody longtime listener as a life long Bucks fan,
It's nice to finally see some national buzz around the team.
It feels to me that Jason Light has built a
highly a high quality culture and we've become a well
run organization. I wanted to get your thoughts on that

(34:58):
and the ceiling you believe the his twenty five team
has with Baker at the helm of a stacked offense
complimented with a revamped defense Reddick, Benjamin Morrison, some other guys.
Spytech mentioned this because I had seen the stat and
I didn't want to butcher it, and it was forty

(35:19):
four of the fifty three man roster in twenty twenty
four going into Week one was either drafted or an
undrafted free agent, so a guy they had signed out
of college on the roster, which is insane. I mean
it really is. And everyone you'll hear when we play
the John Schneider Interview, I would say that Jason Light

(35:42):
Colin I think said this on one of our shows
over the last several months, is that Steve Kahm, who
longtime GM of the Cardinals, Jason Light worked for him
for a minute and says, like the best guy I've
ever been around. Jason Lights elited at his job, like
he's an elite evalue waiter of talent. And I think
over time, you know, anyone who's in charge has a

(36:06):
better idea of how to make a team right, because ultimately,
as a GM, your exercise is a team building you know, puzzle, right,
That's what It's not just accumulating the best possible players, right.
It also has to be the right type people that
fit in the locker room. And I think over time,

(36:27):
Jason Light has just I would say, somewhat perfected it. Now.
The quarterback position is a huge curveball for any organization.
The Steelers know what they're doing right for the most
part when they're evaluating players, but when you don't have
the quarterback, you're kind of screwed. And I don't want
to say they got lucky because they signed the guy,

(36:49):
but they signed Baker Mayfield four million dollars and a
couple of years later, I think we'd all agree is
the top I don't know, somewhere between seven to twelve range.
I mean, he's definitely one of the better quarterbacks in
the league. And they have them on a team friendly deal.
So that really changed for them as a transition from Tom.

(37:10):
Because one thing was evident when Tom got there was like, God,
they got a lot of good players, you know, Worfs,
Vitavea obviously, Mike Evans, Winfield, Levonte David's like good players
at every position, and then all of a sudden, it's
like they get the quarterback right and they win the
division every year. Uh, mail back question. I was reading

(37:31):
an article regarding the finals, the NBA Finals that is
being down twenty five percent from last season. Talk to
my dad and some other friends. They all watch the games.
I'm sure you watched and willing to bet most of
your listeners turned in at some point. My opinion is
most fans of the sport will tune in regardless who

(37:54):
is actually playing in the game. Yet ratings are down
in your opinion, where's the gap? Is it really driven
by large markets and big brands or could it be
a star player themselves are the biggest drivers to get
people in front of the TV? Uh? I think markets.
I saw Adam Silver had a quote he was on

(38:17):
one of the Fox Sports one shows I think leading
into the finals and said, you know he was he's
very jealous of the NFL how unmarket dependent they are. Right,
The Chiefs are the biggest brand in the NFL, right,
no longer the Cowboys, and obviously when the forty nine
ers the Giants. Some of these teams are really good

(38:41):
in the biggest markets. If Chicago was a playoff team
every year, they would do huge ratings. But you can
have the Kansaty Chiefs, you can have the Green Bay Packers,
you can have the Pittsburgh Steelers carrier sport if they're good.
Basketball historically is pretty dependent on two things. Markets and
superstar players. I mean, the most famous player of my

(39:03):
life is Michael Jordan and Kobe Shack to Lebron to
Steph I mean, these are some of the biggest stars
of my life any sport, and I just that's this
Finals lacks that. So you factor in the markets which
are smaller, and then the star power. I'm a good example.
I don't have any money on this series. I wish.

(39:25):
I just thought the Pacers being five to one felt
a little crazy. It's like, OKC is not your typical
sixty eight win team. I was texting with a buddy
the other day, I said, obviously, this team's really talented,
and they got some young players, and you know, Shay
is the MVP of the league, but he's twenty five,
twenty six years old. Most of their better players beside

(39:48):
Caruso are young. And if they played the other elite teams,
let's just say the last fifteen to twenty years, I
think they would lose to every single one of them.
The Warriors teams with Durant and without Durant would beat them.
Lebron Cavs team beat them, Miami would beat them. Any
Kobe Shack Kobe Pow team beat them. I'm not trying

(40:09):
to shit on ok SEE, but I just think the
average consumer doesn't view OKAC as like this can't miss
Juggernaut and then Indiana I was just I mean, they're
the four seed, so Halliburton, Uh, clearly a good player,
but like, these guys aren't moving the needle. If you
told me that it was Nicks Lakers, I wouldn't have

(40:29):
missed a dribble. I watched most of Game one, I
did not watch any of Game two, and I watched
a little on my phone the other day for Game
three because she had something on the television. It wasn't
hard for me to convince, hey, can we watch the
thunder Pacers. So I watched second half of my phone
while I was laying on the couch. But if it

(40:50):
was Warriors versus the Knicks, I wouldn't have been watching
on my phone on my couch. The fucking thing would
have been on television. But it's like, I think there's
an element of star power slash the markets because oka see,
like I trust me. I went to the games when
Durant Westbrook were playing the Warriors, and that felt like

(41:11):
an NFL series, and that team was treated like a
big market team because Kevin Durant was a superstar and
Russell was huge. So it's the NBA and baseball's like
that too. When the World Series last year dwarfed these
NBA finals. It was also the Dodgers and the Yankees.

(41:31):
If you tell me it's the Indians and the Diamondbacks,
it's not gonna be as big, not even close. So
it's most sports, just like most of our businesses, can
be kind of fickle. You know, if we had a
huge recession right now and everyone cut their advertising budgets

(41:52):
by a lot, guess what. Three and out probably be
impacted greatly. I'm pretty dependent on some factors that are
out of control. So I think the NBA is a
good example. It's why David Stern used to cook the books.
He wanted the Lakers in there. He's no dummy. Now.
You could also make the argument from financially, it only

(42:12):
fucks the espns of the world right ABC the league,
they're contracts set in stone, so you know they're prideful
about it and you want to be bigger. But they
just signed a decade long deal, so listen. I've been
critical over the years. I'm like, God, this is not
a good sign. Yet they signed for three x the
amount or two and a half x. That's all that matters.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports. Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game, catch action pack,
live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles, only on
Vice TV.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Tyler, is it a ridiculous idea to get rid of
pass interference? I'm so tired of feeling I'm getting fucked
by a DPIOPI call let them hand fight, let them grab.
Don't like the dB is grabbing, you throw that man
at the coach. Of course, typical defensives, receiver and other
safety rules would apply. I love the show. You sound

(43:13):
like a gambler or someone rooting for your team. It sucks.
I think there is no listen holding. You could call
a lot of plays, and when it gets called, it
tends to be egregious. Sometimes it can be questionable, but
there's nothing like I don't know, a third nine and
a dude gets called for a pass interference, You're like,

(43:35):
are you kidding me? Defensive holding is always egregious. You're
already not letting these guys hit, so you're at a
huge disadvantage. I don't know what to tell you. I
wouldn't get rid of the rule because you can't just
let them. This isn't MMA, but I do. I am
in agreement that it is typically called too easily with

(44:00):
you there, it's called too easily, but it's not going
away for the bag. Who is the better player in
their prime eighty Assume that's Aaron Donald or JJ Watt. Uh,
that's a hell of a question. I think I would
lean JJ Watt. I'm trying to look up how many

(44:23):
defensive player JJ one three, Aaron Donald won three. I
think JJ had multiple twenty sax seasons. Donald had the
one twenty. I think in their heyday they are equally
as dominant and unstoppable. I would say if they're both
healthy in the prime of their career, I would say

(44:43):
JJ is the more versatile player. He can line up
in basically every position. Now I've seen Aaron Donald against
the forty nine ers win. You know, they have an
offensive line injury and the left tackle is not Trent Williams,
and they will put Aaron Donald out of defensive end
and he will fucking smoke the backup tackle. So, I mean,
two of the best players in the history of the league.

(45:05):
If you told me I get both guys healthy for
eight straight years, I would take JJ Watt and it's no,
it's no slight at Aaron Donald, who special player? I
just I mean I just watched JJ and his hey day.

(45:25):
I mean six five, three hundred pounds. There was no
stopping him. He could pass rush like Aaron Donald, but
he was unstoppable versus the run as well. Aaron Donald's
good against the run. Two. But I would give the
I would give the slight edge. I would say JJ
Watt in his prime heyday is like a ten out

(45:46):
of ten. Like you could argue as the perfect player
as a defensive lineman because literally every position, I mean
you can't really play like true true nose tackle right
like a you know, like a Vita Vea. Like he's
not three forty pounds, but there really is not a
position he can't play. He's probably a little more versatile

(46:08):
than Aaron Donald. But we're splitting heirs. Honestly, It's like
the equivalent of like, who would you want Brady or Manning.
It's like, obviously everyone's picking Brady, but you know what
I mean, the person that ends up with Peyton Manning
and complaining, speaking of cocktails with the boys, what's your

(46:29):
go to? I'm a professional bartender and would like to
take a crack at crafting you accustomed drink. I'm pretty simple.
I'm a Tito Soda guy, been a Tito Soda guy
probably for a decade plus. That's been my go to drink.
I would say, I would say my thirties. Sometimes maybe

(46:52):
if it's sonny outside during the day, I might do
a Tito soda splash a cran If I'm playing golf,
I will have probably a transfusion with Tito's. So I'm
just a loyal Tito's guy, whether they're paying me or not.
And I've been in business with them. I'm not in
business with them technically I think currently, but I'm very,

(47:13):
very loyal to that brand. No, multiple people that work
for him love Tito. That's his name. The guy that
started the company still owns it. It's an incredible story.
And I just I'm a vodka guy. I did date
a girl probably five six years ago that was just
drank tequila sodas. So I mean, I can't have a

(47:35):
tequila soda, but I would say someone would have to
give me. I don't think I would ever order that.
And occasionally, like if you're in like a Mexican restaurant
or something. I'll have a margarita skinny, you know, try
to keep those abs. But I'm a vodka soda. I'm
pretty simple. I don't drink that much anymore. I'd say
golf course, cocktails, and out to dinner maybe and beers.

(48:00):
I mean, we're having some beers. I'll have a beer.
Hope you're doing well. Question for the pod do you
think we will ever see advertising patches on NFL jerseys
like we have in the NBA? Why away not? I
would say, I mean, I would yeah, I mean, I
think it would be very possible that we have. Everything's

(48:23):
always on the table when it comes to growing revenue.
So that's an easy one. They have the patches in practice,
like when you see the Eagles or the Patriots or
some of these teams. I think the forty nine ers
at practice and you see the still shots of whatever
the local hospital is or the local whatever the company is.

(48:43):
So I would say, yeah, definitely possible. Mail bag question
is from Art. With all these leagues struggling with crappy ownership,
what do you think of this idea? Start a five
or ten in your clock any team that can't win
twenty five percent of their games, the league demands the

(49:06):
owner sell the team. Would this motivate owners to spend
more money or just do a better job? Obviously not
a probable thing to happen, your thoughts, here's the problem.
If I'm selling you something that is worth the amount
of money that a basketball team, a baseball team, obviously
an NFL team is worth the money like what I'm paying,

(49:28):
it's hard for you to be like, well, you also
need to do this to keep the asset. It's like,
there's not a long list of these human beings. It's
why these sales are becoming more and more complicated. Because
when the Boston Celtics are going for will they go
for six billion dollars? Seven? They didn't even they don't
even own their arena. The forty nine ers just sold

(49:51):
on evaluation of like eight point five billion dollars. If
Jed York and the York family wanted to sell how
many human beings? One, there's such a small amount of
people that have access to you know, have that much money.
And two, like you kind of gotta like football now,
maybe there are people that have bought recently. Bronco fans

(50:13):
would know better, like Penner, the Waltons. Are they really
into football? It was like, we need a place to
put our money, and this is just a great buy.
So I think it's just a small list, you know,
I hear this forever. It's like, could Jeff Bezos buy
Team X NBA or football? And maybe he does. I
don't know enough about Jeff Bezos. Is like, you know

(50:36):
what he likes to do, but does he like football
and basketball? Does he like sports? Because if he doesn't
like yeah, just I'm so rich. I don't need to
do this, so I don't want to right part of
it clearly, you know, some of these guys really like football, obviously,
the old school owners, you know, the Moros, the Hunt families,

(50:56):
the Crafts like Jerry the I mean, we go on
the football. They fucking like football. They love football. Same
thing goes for like Mark. No one ever questioned, like
you think Mark Cuban likes the sport of basketball? How
Joe Lacup. It's like Joe Acob plays a pickup game
twice a week at Stanford. Okay, loves hoops. So part

(51:18):
of it I get this guy to spend all this money.
I need to find a guy that likes football or
basketball or baseball, and then I'm gonna dictate. Well, if
it doesn't go well, you have to sell what. No,
part of the reason I'm buying it usually is to
park my cash somewhere. And two I'm doing it for
my family. So I I like your idea, Like I

(51:41):
understand where you're coming from, but it's just it's too
far fetched. With South America and Australia offering better time
zones for American football, do you think the NFL will
gradually phase out of the UK when it comes to
overseas games. Uh, it's a good question. I don't know.

(52:04):
I honestly haven't even thought about it. I personally, I
do believe that it's a little far fetched to think
that they could put a put a division if they
were to expand in the UK. Like you said, not
just the time zone period, but just the logistics of travel,
you know, if you need to. I mean, hell, when

(52:26):
I was with the Eagles, it's like, Hey, we're working
out middle Cough get him a plane flight. It's like
we're gonna have a workout tomorrow. It's one o'clock in
the afternoon. It's like, where does he live? Oh, he
lives in he lives in Scottsdale. Okay, we can find
him a flight in two hours. It'll be here tonight.
Let him sleep a little bit, tell him work out
tomorrow eight thirty in the morning. Think how more difficult

(52:47):
that would be. It's like, okay, fly him out from
Scottsdale to London to Spain to wherever. So I don't
know about enough about the time zones, but I do
you think it's a little complicated, Yes, if you're talking
about putting a team there. When it comes to just watching,
isn't Australia. Is Australia better time zone? Isn't Australia way ahead? Too?

(53:13):
Could be wrong thoughts. To address the questionable officiating, we're
crushing officials in the middle of June. The league should
put out a miscall report after each week wraps up.
Report gets released on Tuesday morning. Then have the head
of officials for each crew do a press conference. That
way we can actually get real data on cruise, what

(53:36):
type of penalties get missed and what point of the
game the calls are being made missed. Your thoughts, I
think these leagues are very, in a weird way protective
over like the sanctity of listen. These are human beings.
They're going to be calls missed. Some are more egregious

(53:57):
than others. We have replay. There should be some mechanism
to try to get it right, but there also should
be some sort of human element. I mean, ultimately, this
is a reality television show. So if you're Roger Goodell
and you're the league, like, do I need that?

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Like?

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Part of the reality is everyone bitching the moment. It's like,
until you stop watching the games, Why do I care
if you're mad at the official or not. I've been
mad a million times over the last ten fifteen years, gambling, rooting,
you name it. Think how many coaches and players get
mad all the time? What does it change? It literally
doesn't change anything. Ever, so long winded way, I don't

(54:38):
think the league cares. I really don't think they care,
you know. I as long as people watch, nothing matters.
A big fan of the pod. I'm twenty five and
my dad has been on me about investing at an
early age. Although I've been investing my money in some
stocks safe and risky. What do you think is the
best strategy when investing for the long term and is

(54:59):
there any companies that you're investing in that you feel
good about. I think if I can go back and
do it all over again, Listen, it's it's always easy
to be like, oh see Patrick Mahomes saw that one come.
No one knew. It's like, oh, should have put it
all in on Facebook or Apple fifteen years It's it's
always easy to play that game stocks sports. If I

(55:23):
would have just put a couple hundred dollars a month
when I was your age into the SMP five hundred,
I mean I would be worth a lot more money
now and just having a retirement plan set up instead
of starting it at you know, truly for myself, putting
money away at thirty four instead of twenty four on

(55:45):
just safe stuff. Listen, you can play the game all
day long. And I do companies. You use companies, you know,
you know, I think we have examples over the course
of the last twenty years. I watch Netflix. It gets
flip turned on in my house every day, right, you know,

(56:06):
think how many people over the last twenty years use
Google daily. I mean I'm looking at an Apple computer.
I got an Apple phone, I got an iPad, Apples,
I watch Apple Plus the show sticks with Owen Wilson
pretty good. I wish I would have invested in Apple
fifteen years ago. So I think if you think that
mindset when you invest in stuff, listen, there's always gonna

(56:30):
be risk involved. But I think if you just in
general invest in our economy, like basically invest in American capitalism,
the S and P five hundred, the SMP, there's ETFs
with the top one hundred companies. That's what I would do.
To just have something you're just investing in at a
young age that you're just betting on the come that way,

(56:52):
and it gives you diversity. That's not how I gamble,
you know, or slash invest. My investing strategy is a
little bit more of a gamble when it comes to
just investing in individual stocks. But we're all a little
different that way. Long time listener and first time messenger,
I'm headed to Arizona in October and it was wondering

(57:13):
if you had any golf recommendations. I think I've given
him a million. I need to just do a YouTube
video of like here are middle COFs recommendations when you
come to Scott's sale restaurants, low price, mid price, high
price golf courses, low priced high price some other fun stuff. Honestly,
that's probably not a terrible idea what to do when

(57:35):
coming to Scots. Maybe I should just do a video.
That's actually a pretty good idea. Jackson Who if you've
listened to the show for a while that used to
come on do college football stuff. He's now part of
the volume part of our show, and we were just
talking about some just ideas. That's a pretty good one,
actually do like a vlog. Also, do you pay attention

(58:00):
to the Niners beat? For example, the Grant Cone versus
Dave Lombardi beef. I used to be more dialed in
to those guys. I like both of them. I would
say I'm better friends with Lombardi. I love Grant's dad, Loll,
who's a legendary calumnist for the San Fransco Chronicle that

(58:23):
my dad loved, you know, my dad passed away but
loved the sports section. And Lowell was probably one of
the more important guys in the San Fransco Chronicle in
the eighties and nineties, which probably one of the bigger
papers in America. And then I got to know him
through doing media stuff in the Bay. It was fucking awesome.

(58:44):
Listen part of it is you should have healthy competition,
and the beat world is so different than it used
to be. But one thing for Grant and Lombardi, for
those of you listening, they're younger guys that cover the
forty nine ers. They're big on social media and big
on I mean, they're huge on YouTube, and they're kind

(59:05):
of the modern day beat reporter, and it's aggressive now.
The thing is, you know the hatred that you get
you see on Twitter or online. I've been to a
million practices with both those guys and it's just normal.
Though I did. I was at the practice when kin
Law javon Kinlaw, it looked like for a second he

(59:27):
was gonna kick Grant's ass and kin Law, you know,
overrated player a little bit, I thought, thought, my guy
Peters gave him a little too much money. Massive, dude,
I mean, kin Law would have beat up every Beat
reporter in any practice ever. Monster. But they calmed it down,
they hashed it out. I've tried to spend less time

(59:48):
on the internet, especially in the summer during the fall
football season. I got no choice, and it's what I do.
I try to balance it now, so I'm probably not
as dialed as I once was when it came to
internet beats with the media question for the bag. I
know it's way too early, but any predictions for Mike

(01:00:08):
McCarthy next year? A few coaches every year get fired
and a few quarterbacks get traded. Any futures on your board.
It's weird because objectively, if you look at McCarthy's career,
he's a winner, right obviously in Green Bay a ton
of success goes to Dallas. Three straight years, twelve wins

(01:00:28):
a season, hosts how many playoff games? Just the one?
I know they lost the Niners. They played the Bucks
that year they won. Yeah, because he lost the Packers.
So two of three years in the three straight years
of winning twelve games, he won the division, hosts two

(01:00:49):
playoff games. Now he lost them both. But think how
many teams you know. One issue with Mike is people
view him through a negative lens or a pessimistic lens,
instead of seeing the positives, like this guy brings something
to the table. People view what he can't do, and

(01:01:11):
I think that's gonna hurt him. I would never say
he's not gonna ever get a job again, but I
do think it's gonna be a little uphill battle. Now
it's always dependent, Like on a given year, if there's
a Ben Johnson, a Mike McDonald and a Mike Vrabel,
like he's in trouble, you know. I mean, Mickey Loomis
is like a good friend of his, and they went

(01:01:31):
with Kellen Moore over him. Maybe a couple of years
away could do him good. But one thing that hurt
him that when he said he took a year away
with Dallas and in his interview he told Jerry I
watched every game and I knew, and then he admitted
during the press conference that he lied. I think that

(01:01:53):
kind of always carried with him, you know, and which
is crazy because you go, well, what's my good at
I don't know, coaching quarterbacks? Calling offense? So think about
this his number one trait as a coach. He can
call the plays and coach the quarterbacks. It's like that
should be fucking pretty important. I don't know if it's

(01:02:13):
his look. It does not feel like people are high
on him for whatever reason, and he handled the Cowboys
job pretty well. Now. I think if you're hiring him
thinking you're gonna get some guy that's gonna dominate the
highest levels, I think it's fair to question that, but
you could do way worse. I mean, look at some

(01:02:33):
of these coaches getting hired, Like, what are the chances
would the Jags here's a good example, and this is
nothing against Liam Cohen, but like, what are the chances
that Liam Cohen wins in Jacksonville? You'd say, historically pretty low.
But if I told you that Mike McCarthy had gone
to the Jags and was coaching that team, you'd be like,
I bet they're pretty solid. I bet within a couple

(01:02:55):
of years during the playoffs. You would have to bet
that now Liam might take him to the playoffs, but
he easily might not. You would probably bet against him
doing it, just based on the history of the franchise.
So I think he's going to have to fight the perception.
I don't know. I don't quite get it, because I'm

(01:03:18):
all for being critical of Mike McCarthy in individual situations
and games, But like, if you just tell me that
he's never going to get a job, which I think
is very possible, that's kind of crazy to me. It
really is. And if I was a betting man, I
would say it's coin flip at best, that he's a
head coach again. I easily think he could be a coordinator,

(01:03:41):
and they coordinators make millions of dollars, so it's not
I don't think he has you know, his contract ended,
so it's not like he's being paid to do nothing.
He doesn't have a con like he's not being paid. Now.
He's made a ton of money, but at the end
of the day, it's like, how old is Mike McCarthy
fifty eight, sixty. It's not like he's eighty. I would

(01:04:02):
imagine he's gonna want to make some coin. Sixty one
if I was betting right now, he'll be an offensive
coordinator in twenty twenty six would be my guess. I
would say, if I did a pie chart, I would
say sixty percent, that thirty percent head coach because he's
gonna get some interviews, and ten percent just never coaches again,

(01:04:22):
which you never know. I mean, maybe he's just over it.
The volume