April 23, 2019 • 41 mins
Colin says the Giants have an opportunity to fix the mistake of not taking a QB last year by going out and trading for Josh Rosen right now. He thinks the Raiders are more concerned with winning the headlines on draft night than winning on the field. Plus, 3x Pro Bowler LB LaVar Arrington comes in studio to talk about the best defensive players in this draft and why the Raiders and Browns will never win. Presented by Perky Jerky.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. Here we go to Tuesday. Draftis Thursday,
(00:25):
right around the corner. This is The Herd live in
Los Angeles. Wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. We're on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Lincoln Riley, Oklahoma football head coach who coach Kyler Murray,
who now appears to be going number one. We'll join
us in one hour from now. Joy Taylor stopping in
(00:45):
as usual. How are you, Joy, I'm great. In morning.
Here we go pretty close to the draft, very very
close to the draft. It's Thursday, and there are stories.
Now here's where we begin. There are stories now from
reputable sources, people I trust. But it does appear Arizona's
made a decision, and increasingly it looks like the decision
(01:06):
is to move off Josh Rosen and to draft Kyler Murray.
Not what I would necessarily do, but I get what
they're trying to do. They have a coach in Cliff Kingsbury.
It appears Kyler Murray is better for his system. You
can certainly make the argument in that division with Jimmy
g Russell, Wilson, Jared Goff, you're gonna need some dynamic
(01:27):
playmaker at the quarterback position. I get the argument. But
Arizona last year, I don't think they're brilliantly run. I
think they have the fourth best roster in the division,
and I think Josh Rosen may be very lucky here
and end up with a better football team and a
better roster and an easier division going forward. So Peter
King is saying this morning he would be surprised if
(01:49):
the Cardinals didn't draft Kyler Murray with a top overall pick,
and Joel Klatt said this yesterday and I trust him
on our show. Any inside sources saying Arizona will take
Kyler Murray, Yes, Oh, so you're breaking news here. I'm
not breaking news. I'm okay. I would be shocked if
(02:10):
they're If they're not going to take him, right there
you go, Peter King, Joel Klatt believe it strongly. Let
me just say this, you got to get the quarterback
position right. This is starting to feel like not only
a game changer for Arizona, but such an opportunity for
the New York Giants. A couple of years ago, there
(02:30):
was this team on the West Coast called the San
Francisco forty nine Ers, and they'd hire this young offensive coach,
Kyle Shanahan, no proven head coaching track record. They had
a general manager, John Lynch that we were all kind
of unsure off if it would work, and they had
some good players on the roster, but we just kind
of thought, nah. All of a sudden, they signed Jimmy
(02:53):
G from New England, and like instantly you're like, okay,
we got real franchise here. Okay, now we got the coach,
Now we got the quarterback. The GM seems to know
what he's doing, and they already had a good pie.
Just the Jimmy G signing took the Niners from like
a mess. And the Niners again had an offensive coach, unproven,
a GM we weren't sure of, they were unsure going
(03:15):
forward on quarterback. And then Jimmy G came in boom.
Here's the New York Giants. They have an offensive coach,
Pat Sherman, with a great track record, but we're not
sure of they have some good players on that roster.
We know that for sure. Like the Niners, they got
some explosive players. They have a general manager Dave Gentleman.
We're not really sure it's gonna work. And they're unsure
their quarterback going forward. And here's Josh Rosen. He's the
(03:40):
Jimmy G and, like Jimmy G, a beautiful thrower of
the football. Little bit with both of injury concerns. Jimmy
G got hurt at New England couple of times. People
are like Rosen in college got hurt a little bit, Bubba.
Both Rosen and Jimmy G did not have enough starts
to definitive Lea say. We know they'll be blank, but
(04:03):
boy they looked apart. And for both Garoppolo, all it
took was a second round pick, and for the Giants,
it appears all it's gonna take is a second round pick. Giants,
being the Niners, step up, make the obvious move if
you're not gonna draft Dwayne Haskins which I would. I
think we're overthinking the room on Dwayne Haskins. I draft him.
(04:24):
If you're not, go get Josh Rosen. If you don't
have the quarterback situations settled in this league, it hangs
over the fans, the locker room, the players. I mean,
Jacksonville had that one great year, but I mean you
just it never felt sealed in The Niners. Were the Giants,
(04:44):
smart offensive coach a GM. We weren't sure of some interesting, captivating,
talented players on the roster. Quarterback unsettled, and the Niners
are like, let's seal this up. Let's just seal this.
Let's let's get our guy boom Garoppolo. And the next
day we're all like, all right, at the real franchise, Giant,
you have twelve draft picks, two high first round draft picks,
(05:07):
three of the top thirty seven draft picks. You have
two major needs on the team, pass rusher and a
quarterback going forward step up. This seems so incredibly garoppolo
ish to me. Josh Rosen, Garoppolo second round picks, good
(05:32):
throwers of the football, little injury concern. Pick up offense
is real quick, make your move, all right, let's shift
gears to this Oklahoma City and Russell Westbrook could be
done by the end of the night. I think it'll
be a close, competitive game. One of the things my
wife always says in life, you can be a great example,
(05:54):
or you could be a horrible warning, and both work.
As apparent, kids see their mom and dad as great examples,
or maybe the family's a little chaotic and the kids
look at it and go, I'm not going to be that.
Be a great example or a horrible warning, preferably a
great example, but both work. Russell Westbrook has obviously since
(06:18):
the divorce from Kevin Durant eroded. He's not the same player.
Durant has flourished, Westbrook has eroded, But Russell Westbrook is
also a horrible warning. If you draft and build around
a highly athletic point guard that's a below average shooter.
Derrick Rose, John Wall Westbrook now three examples, you will
(06:39):
not You will not be a playoff contender. It is
now a Shooters League less athletic point guards that can shoot.
Kyrie Irving has never lost a first round playoff series.
Steph Curry and James Harden are now growing and flourishing.
Sports gives you great examples and horrible warnings. We now
(07:04):
have three hyper athletic point guards that teams in the
media fell in love with wall Rose and Westbrook, and
it doesn't work super athletes. We now have three point
guards that aren't as athletic, Hardened Steph and Kyrie Irving.
I think Kyrie is now something like I don't know
(07:25):
sixteen to know in the first round. Listen, this year
Westbrook shot thirty one percent on jumpers, Hardened shot forty,
Lillard shot forty, and Curry shot forty four percent. Just
pay attention. Just pay attention. If you're a GM, if
you're an executive, you're a coach who has GM powers.
(07:46):
If you fall for the highly athletic point guard who
can't shoot, then it's on you. From time to time
all speak to young broadcasters and young journalism students, and
one of the messages I always say is just pay attention.
Twenty years ago newspapers died. Don't go into newspapers. Ten
years ago magazines died. Get rid of that idea, and
(08:09):
today websites are dying. Don't go out and spend all
your money on a website. Think about a podcast, Think
about audio, think about TV, think about play by play,
think about life, will tell you which direction to go,
lose your ego, pay attention. Like Westbrook is really actually
(08:29):
a great warning going ahead. He'll give you highlights, he
can give you some awards, he can sell tickets and merchandise.
He's fun to watch. I mean, I'll be watching that
game tonight. I watched a lot of Westbrook. But if
you want to win in the playoffs in an increasingly
shooters driven league, the answer is scale back a little
(08:52):
bit on the athleticism. Don't pass on a guy in
the draft because he's not quite athletic enough. Kyrie Staff,
James Harden, because it's a shooters leak. And you've got
now multiple examples over and over of what works and
what doesn't. Okay, this is be a great example or
(09:14):
a horrible warning. My guest tonight is Portland wins the
series simply because they've got more shotmakers. They don't have
the best athletic roster, they got the second best. Curry
Damian Lillard never gets talked about as an elite point guard.
CJ McCollum, I think is a really good shooter, but
not much else. Doesn't play any defense. They got shotmakers,
(09:35):
that's what Portland has. The athletes some size, that's Oklahoma City.
The guys that can hit sixteen footers and twenty one footers,
that's Portland. I think they'll win tonight. Be sure to
catch live editions of the Herd weekdays and noon Easter
ninety Empacific. I would not trade Josh Rosen for Kyler Murray,
but Kyler Murray's coach is joining us in an hour.
(09:56):
The draft is kind of fascinating. So, oh, here's another
Raiders story that's come out. This is this is very interesting.
So according to Ian Rappaport, the Raiders may be planning
quote a surprise pick their fourth overall selection. Hey, everybody,
we got a big surprise coming. I don't know. Unless
(10:17):
you're drafting like a baseball player, I don't know what
you could do at this point. Maybe a quarterback technically,
Kyler Murray is also a baseball player, all right, gas,
But I think Arizona's got the number one pick and
they're gonna take him, you know. Then Friday, the story
came out that the scouts had all been sent home
and nobody trusted them. I'm just gonna give you an
(10:40):
opinion here. It appears the Raiders are leaking stories to
be the most talked about team on Thursday because Arizona
right now, not a very good football team, is getting
talked about a lot because of Kyler Murray. And a
story came out this week they were trying to sell
some tickets. I don't know if that's true or not.
That's the story. Oakland is struggling to sell tickets. It's
(11:02):
a lame duck here in Oakland and there it's one
of the poorest ownership groups in the NFL. I think
it's the poorest. They don't have great stadium revenue. It's
a mess. I think they're trying to sell tickets, and
I think they're leaking stories right now to drum up interest.
I think they want to sell them in Vegas. I
think that that's why they went out and spent for
Antonio Brown. I don't think they thought Antonio Brown was
(11:23):
a didn't come without risk, but I think they thought
it would sell tickets. Oakland's gotta sell tickets. John Gruden
had a quote last summer. His quote last summer was,
I want to be the Patriots. Aren't the Patriots quiet?
Aren't they covert? They don't pay wide receivers. They buy
low and sell high. The Raiders are doing the opposite
(11:45):
of the New England Patriots. And Gruden told you he
wanted to do the New England Patriots. So his first
move was very patriot like, let's get rid of Khalil
Mack can get a bunch of picks. That was his
first move in Oakland. And you're like, it's a no
patriot like, let's let Chandler Jones go and get picked.
And then they let gobamarray Cooper. And you're like, well,
(12:06):
New England doesn't pay receivers. That's a little bit like
the Patriots. So John Gruden talked and I listened. We
want to be his quote last summer, we want to
be the Patriots, all right, Khalil Mack for picks, Well,
that's very Belichick. Belichick does not pay wide receivers. Amari
Cooper gone picks, all right? And then suddenly in the
(12:27):
last couple of months, let's pay a fortune for a
left tackle that maybe the third best in our division.
Let's pay a fortune for wide receiver. Let's go and
leak everything of the press. They're trying to win Thursday night.
That's what this is. They're trying to win Thursday Night
and sell tickets because they can't sell them in Oakland
because the community. The community's ticked off. That's what it
(12:51):
totally feels like to me. John Gruden's initial plan was
exactly what he said it would be very New England like,
which is, don't pay a fortune for anybody outside of
your quarterback. And by the way, don't give your quarterback
a bunch of love. Belichick doesn't give Brady a bunch
of love. Gruden hasn't given Derek Carr a bunch of love.
(13:14):
He moved to Maori, he moved Khalil. That was very
New England. But in the last couple of months, it's
the opposite of New England. And this is what my
biggest fear with John is he's turning into a TV
personality because remember, if you think about Thursday's Draft, and
don't kid yourself, not all organizations in American sports are
about winning games. There's all sorts of organizations. The New
(13:36):
York Giants would love to move off ELI, but they're
afraid of what their older fan base will do. Kobe
Bryant signed a massive contract last couple of years with
the Lakers, why because Time Warner Cable said, we're not
giving the money if your best players. D'Angelo Russell organizations
make moves. All there's two different kind of sports organizations.
The one that are all about winning titles, and then
(13:57):
you get some owners they want to make money. If
they win titles, that'd be great, but we gotta make money.
The Raiders have literally shifted what they do in the
last six months, and I think it's the sell tickets
in Oakland. I think that's what they're doing now that
you get rid of Khalil Mackinamari Cooper and you're bringing
Antonio Brown who's got all sorts of baggage and it
(14:17):
is more expensive a wide receiver. And outside of Arizona,
the Raiders have three picks in the first round. So
I mean that they should be the second story. And
I think they want to be the number one story
and sell four thousand season tickets either in Vegas or Oakland.
That's what I think they want to do. And this
is why are these stories leaking. You know, I have
(14:39):
a theory on this. Stories get out when somebody wants
them out. Why listen to this story? The Raiders may
be planning quote a surprise pick is that New England
Ish no that's trying to sell tickets Ish one more Herd.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
(14:59):
a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search her to listen
live or on demand whenever you like. Let me start
with a Laker topic. They are obviously not in the playoffs.
There's a story out The La Times is all over this.
Now the Lakers are not going to replace Magic Johnson. Okay,
but but Magic will still be helping them recruit players. Okay,
(15:21):
that's not how it works for other teams. But okay,
Now it's up to Rob Polenka. Apparently he's going to
get the job. Rob Polinka, who are Rashmar Kazi, a
Tom column us for The La Time said last week
multiple teams won't return his calls because he was an agent.
He offended people, he alienated people, and a lot of
people won't take his calls and pick up. Here was
a rash There's no trust from people outside of this
(15:43):
Genie Bus Linda circle. Like they don't think Rob knows
what he's doing, and they don't trust Rob. Rob is
not the guy that teams want to trade with. You
got to bring in a guy that if you get
that phone call and you see that color ide, some
teams aren't picking up a photo us as Rob Polinka.
Nobody realize is how big of a problem, Rob Polinka,
I think kids for this team. Okay, So if that
(16:06):
being that's an LA Times columnist, reporter, feed on the
ground foot soldier, a lot of information around the organization.
It feels like to me, two things feel like they've
happened with the Lakers. They've become a mom and pop
organization an incredibly corporate, sophisticated analytical world in the NBA.
The league is very sophisticated, and they feel mom and poppish.
(16:28):
They do not have an elite owner, an elite analytics department.
They don't have a coach, they don't have an elite roster.
I do not believe they have an elite front office.
I'm not taking shots at just you compare them to
Golden State, where do they win players, front office, analytics? Owner? No, no, no, no, no.
You can stack them up against Toronto where do they
win owner, analytics, GM players no, no, no, no no. Now,
(16:51):
I think the Lakers have moved into hail Mary category.
Hail Mary's are occasionally successful, so we're onside kicks. I
think it really comes down to this. I think the
next five years to the Los Angeles Lakers and their
franchise going forward come down to one week, and that's
as soon as the season ends. There's a dead week,
(17:11):
and then July first, it's free agents, and I think
this is their Hail Mary. You trade everything to get
Anthony Davis. I don't think he works necessarily that well
with Lebron, but he's a hell of a player. So
you trade everything to get Anthony Davis. He's represented by
Clutch Sports. They'll probably help lean him into the Lakers.
(17:33):
So you'll have Lebron and Anthony Davis, and then you
cross your fingers on Jimmy Butler. If Philadelphia loses to
Toronto in the next round, and it's going to be
a heck of a series. I get the people who
like Toronto. I like Philly, but I get the Toronto.
They play real good defense, they've got tremendous chemistry, they've
got a little more menum here. And then Jimmy Butler's unhappy.
(17:53):
They decide he's a little distroynt Old Simmons doesn't like him,
and they move him. Jimmy Butler loves La, made no
secret of that. He likes La. That's your hail Mary,
trade everything, just give, Just give the Pelicans more than
everybody else will for Anthony Davis. Just say, here's Kuzma,
here's Ingram, here's Lonzo, here's just just Boom, And then
(18:16):
you have Lebron Anthony Davis, and you cross your fingers
on Jimmy Butler. By the way, I don't think this
is like a ten percent chance or a twenty percent chance.
I think you're in the fifty percent category here. I
don't think this is crazy talk. I think Butler likes
Los Angeles. I think his game actually works with Lebron.
I think he'd stay in line with Lebron a little bit.
I do. Anthony Davis isn't perfect with Lebron, but he's
gonna give you twenty four and ten, twenty four and twelve.
(18:39):
He's a good player, and he's a he's a thoughtful player.
I mean, he's a guy didn't need a lot of attention.
You know, he didn't have problem Lebron getting love and
Butler getting love. Anthony. He likes to play hoops. He
likes to win games. He'll give you twenty three twelve.
I think he's a good kid. I don't think he's
a great leader. I think sometimes he's a tad soft,
doesn't play with injuries much. But if Kevin Durant left
Golden State and nextra I said, well, it's one team's
(19:02):
got Anthony Davis, Lebron and Jimmy Butler, that sounds like
it's pretty good. That a pretty good team. That's better
than Lebron, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingham, Lonzo Ball, Josh Harden,
a bunch of nothing. So I kind of feel like
right now, if you're a Laker fan, an ownership, front office, analytics, roster,
(19:24):
and they're really stack up. But I don't think it's
a crazy hail mary. This is a hail mary when
you have two six seven wide receivers in the end
zone and they have small corners. It's it's not a
terrible hail Mary. And I think that's where we're at
right now. Yeah, it's yeah, it's a it's an Aaron
Rodgers hail mary. Better than average. Aaron's slown it up there,
(19:46):
Davante Adams is tall, Jimmy Graham's up there. You got
a shot um all right. So Odell Beckham and Dave
Gettlman had a little whizzing match on over the weekend.
Dave Gentleman said we no longer have a culture problem.
Odell Beckham fired back. I think they both should have
just not said much. I will say this about the
(20:09):
New York Giants though very quietly. The New York Giants
have accumulated twelve draft picks, folks. That's double the league average.
They got two first to four, three fifth to seventh,
a second, a third, and a sixth. There are certain
things in certain businesses you got to get right. In
(20:31):
the transportation business, got to be punctual. You can screw
up a lot. Gotta be punctual. In the restaurant food industry,
you got to get the service right. Just get the
service right. In the hotel hospitality business, got to be clean.
Nobody wants a dirty hotel. In the NFL general manager business,
(20:55):
for god's sakes, get the quarterback right. You can win
on the secondary. You can whiff on kickers, you can
whiff on pass rushers. I mean, folks. New England gets
the head coach and the quarterback right. They've whipped on
wide receivers. You can argue they're the worst drafting wide
receiver team in the NFL in the last seven years,
eight years. When I look at the New York Giants,
(21:20):
I have two Please either get Josh Rosen just go
get him. He's Garoppolo, just go get him. Or draft
Dwayne Haskins at six. Don't overthink the route. If you
don't take him at six, he's not going to be
available at seventeen because Cincinnati's gonna get him. Miaim He's
gonna get him. Folks were overthinking the room on Dwayne Haskins.
(21:44):
He's big, he's a good kid, he's coachable, he's strong,
he's accurate. I watched him play eight games this year.
Every time I watched him, he was better. He got
better every week. He's six three and a half now.
He doesn't have great feet, but god, let's let's not
make him into some guy in the PBA Tour. He
is athletic enough. And by the way, look around the league.
(22:06):
A lot of guys that aren't winning, a lot of
guys aren't you saying bolt back there. I think we're
overthinking the room on this thing. I mean, he's a big, tall,
accurate kid. I watched him at the end of the
year against Washington and Michigan. Those are the two best
defenses he played. Is really good. He hits the open guys.
I mean again, I don't think he's Andrew Luck as
(22:27):
a prospect. I don't think he's you know, maybe you know,
maybe not Cam Newton dynamic. But aren't we going a
little nuts here? I mean Kyler Murray. I think he's
a first round prospect. And Kyler's tiny from a conference
the Big twelve that until recently kind of gave you
a whiffs at quarterback, Urban Meyer talked about something that
(22:51):
fans don't see. That one of the things about Dwayne Haskins.
He's really good pre snap at lining up the line.
So that tells me the kids alert. And this is
what Urban said about him. There's great peasants to understand
which way to flip the protection, and that's going to
be I think that's one of the most overlooked things
or quarterbacks. What's his football IQ? Because when you see
(23:14):
a nut get hit, you say, well, the offense line's great.
Wait a minute. A lot of times is they're flipping
protections to make sure they're picking up the pressures, and
that's what other than accuracy, that's joined strength. Is he
a mature enough to be a five billion dollars franchise?
Not yet. He's close though, He's only got one year
under his belt, and I think this situation will be perfect.
And there's a couple of them out there. He comes in,
he learns for a year. At some point he'll be
(23:36):
the face of a franchise. Okay, okay, so land Zerline,
his dad was a coach for years. He's a Houston
based scout. I think he does a radio show. We've
brought him on the show before. He's a guy I like.
I bring him on the show before the draft. It
works for the NFL network. Very smart guy. And now
I'm looking at his sheet of strengths and weaknesses and
I just love all these strengths. Groom for this moment.
(23:58):
Since he was a kid, that's almost always this story
with a John Elway and Andrew Lux and Peyton mannings
well schooled understanding of how to get himself protected. Seriously,
is there anything more important than that he's a full
field reader on an NFL level. That means he's not
one of these college kids. That's overwhelmed, effortless, throwing motion,
(24:20):
ball explodes out of his hands down field, he alters
his trajectory depending on coverage and space. That was something
Kaepernick always struggled with. He threw a fastball. Only this
kid can go slider, curve, sturdy build, shake, free of
pocket traffic. I love all those things. Here's the knock
on him. There haven't been a lot of successful quarterbacks
with so many few career starts. All right, don't love it,
(24:43):
but he can sity you're in New York. The other
thing below average athlete, all right is Peyton Manning Olympics
printer Brady Sluggish, heavy feet when he scrambles. I agree.
It can't be worse than Eli. It can't be worth
an Elie. All the things I see that you don't
(25:05):
like about Dwayne are stuff you can coach up. But
the things I see as strengths if you don't do him,
I mean, groomed for this moment since he was a kid,
rare passing production, well schooled, knows how to get himself protected.
A full field reader. Like guys that come into this
(25:25):
league and they don't read the full field, they really
struggle early. I just think we're over Giants. Here's your moment.
Either trade for Rosen or get Haskins. You're gonna regret
passing on this kid. I'm sorry. I'm not saying he's
an a prospect? Is Matt Ryan and a prospect? He
got to a Super Bowl? I didn't think Matt Ryan
was an a prospect. Be sure to catch live editions
(25:45):
of The Herd weekdays in noon Easter nine a Empacific
on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app.
Three time Pro Bowl or eight NFL seasons, now a
coach both he and his wife LaVar Arrington, who I
just told him outside of a little grand that beard,
he looks like he drafted Thursday. He does not age.
He was a dominant player at Penn State, Washington Redskins,
New York Giants. How are you very well? I'm great.
(26:08):
So it's a great defensive line draft. Jet last year
was all quarterback talk. You know, this year Kyler Murray,
Dwayne Haskins. I like both Haskins a little more than
everybody else. Kyler scares me a little bit size, But
it's a defensive line draft. You coached an under armour
game and you coached a kid named Ed Oliver who
we never watched play because he played at Houston. Okay,
(26:29):
but we didn't see him in college. Sure, we saw
Rashawn Gary in Michigan. We saw Bosa at Ohio State. Sure,
this kid's an interesting prospect. What do you what do
you make of it? He's my guy in this draft.
You know, I like Bosa. I mean when you look
at his his his lineage and those different things. I
like Gary. I had those guys in an under armour
(26:49):
game just as much Evan Kyler Murray, right. But Ed Oliver,
he is Aaron Donald two point oh man. And I'll
tell you his his pad level, his movement, his ability
to deliver a blow, his motor um. I haven't seen
anything like it since an Aaron Donald. Now, he got
(27:11):
into a foreign Aaron Donald. Yeah, he got into a
fight with his coaches. He co agreement, disagreement, is coachable.
He's coachable. He no see And that's the thing about it.
You know, it's interesting. I was having a conversation about
now versus when I was coming out. If I get
into a situation like d Oliver coming out in the draft,
(27:31):
I am the worst thing. I'm a cancer. He's undraftable,
this and that and the other. But technical, you know,
advances are so great and so far ahead. Now you
can build your own, your own narrative. You can you
can endare yourself to your your consumer into to the
fan base at Oliver. If he was really the guy
(27:51):
that that maybe some try to portray him as coming
out of that situation with with his coach at Houston,
I think there would have been more conversations about it.
I think there would have been a lot of narratives
that would go along with what took place at that
moment in time. To be honest with you, I think
the culpability there lied on the leadership versus the young
(28:15):
man that was playing so and if that's the only
question I had on him at that moment in time,
I don't think that that's a large enough question to
not be high on. A. Yeah, he had an incident,
it doesn't define him, correct. I have no problem with
guys having an incident. I mean, we could have an
incident right now, right here and hug it out and
be okay. Tomorrow. They might be okay. They might be
best of friends, like I'm sorry at like I'm sorry
(28:37):
to coach, like we had a moment. It was caught
on camera. Boom boom boom. Move on. By the way,
half the NFL is undrafted. Many of the great players
your t os did not play at massive schools. I
always love these guys that play. Love where you're going.
Don't get caught up in guys play. If you go
look at quarterbacks in this league, Miami of Ohio, NC State, Boston.
(29:00):
How many Alabama guys start. How many USC guys start?
Not many. So I like guys who get overlooked at
the college level and Opata Houston and are ticked off
for three years. I think it's a huge advantage to
at Oliver and players like that. That point that you
make is so it's so tremendous. I'm from Pittsburgh, all
(29:21):
right now I'm gonna go to a different error, And
things have changed very dramatically since being in Pittsburgh. In
this draft I'm telling you about, but you were here,
I was not here. A guy by the name A
Mean Joe Green gets drafted to the Pittsburgh Steelers. The
entire foundation and identity was built on this man's his
(29:43):
ability to do what he did on the field, right right?
Could you tell me what college he went to? I
can't a college by the name of Northern Texas, all right,
and I think they were called the Green Mean Machine
or some Yeah, he goes number four in that draft,
(30:03):
all right, nineteen I want to say nineteen sixty nine.
He goes in that draft and totally changed the entire
trajectory of Chuck Knowles Pittsburgh Steelers. By the way, Terry
Bradshaw did not go to LSU. Where did he go?
Like Louisiana task something like that, right, So you cannot
when you look at the draft, the most interesting aspect
(30:26):
of the draft is the big names and the big schools.
It's just all about the consumer and what they want
to see. You know. You think about the Haskins, you
think about the Bosas, you think about the Gary's. I
named all big ten players there, right, I'm I'm partial, Uh,
But if you think about these big schools where these
guys come from, and you get the lineman from LSU
(30:49):
and from Alabama and the SEC, and it really is
consumer driven. And I take a step back as a
as a high school coach, I got how many players
get the hype machine behind them and get these tremendously
large scholarship offers, and this school and that school, and
(31:09):
they have like upwards of twenty scholarship offers, and then
there's a guy over here that has none. That's probably
twice the player that this kid that has all of
these scholarships. He didn't go to a powerhouse high school
football program. It's a possible. Let's go back to when
you were in this league. Now, you were a dominant player,
You were a dominant player at Penn State, but you
(31:29):
end up going to the Redskins. Do you remember your
first couple of years, a draft pick, a young guy
in the team that came from nowhere, and you were like, oh,
he would have been great at Penn State. Did you
ever play with one of those guys? A whole bunch?
I mean, the Holmes couches are littered. There's probably a
ton of guys helping you with your wood at home
(31:51):
depot or or scanning you out somewhere. Had at Wegman's right,
that was probably a better player than LeVar Arrington. Truth,
true story, But the reality of it is is for
someone like me, I had the opportunity to grow up
with Dwight White as a mentor. I had Jerome Bettis.
(32:12):
We had the same barber shots out to Dave on
North Side. I had the opportunity to learn that it's
more about branding yourself and understanding how to define your
identity as a person versus even being that player that
people want you to be on the football. Just think
about this, think about in the last this is why
I love the draft. If I said to you ten
(32:33):
best players in the NFL over the last ten years.
Gronk went to a basketball school, yep, literally basketball school.
Tom Brady sixth round, struggled to start at Michigan. I
remember Tom Brady. He was in your draft. He was
in my Listen what you just said. He was in
my draft. You got picked eight. That was the last
(32:55):
my thing as it applies to my versus Tom Brady.
Do you know how Manny you remember all the quarterbacks
got picked ahead of him? Yes, one of them is
now a goat farmer in Napa Valley. I swear to God,
I swear there's six of them, and a lot of them,
by the way, big arm guys, big strong guys in here. K.
You didn't even see Tom playing college in the Big ten,
did you? Actually? He beat us a few times? Really,
(33:17):
but I wore him out in college. You know, Tom
Brady was not ready for LaVar Arrington in college, right,
But that just tells you, and that goes to show
you even though I got the best of him hit
to head, they won the game. But statistically speaking, I
did very well against Michigan, very well. But that sometimes
doesn't translate to what you're gonna be once you go
(33:39):
to the next level. Do you go back to your
career with Washington. When you were with Washington, they were very,
very well run. And then he went to the Giants.
Who was the coach there, Tom Coughlin. Okay, well, if
you want to know what the Redskins I mean, do
we have enough time in this second? Got me to
name all of the coaches I had one hand with
their head coaches at one point than I did years
(34:00):
in the league. So Joe Gibbs was gone. I had Joe. Well,
I'm not that old. You had had the second. I
had the second Joe Gibbs. Okay, So Joe. Joe was
kind of like a reason why I left left Washington.
It just got to the point of where it just
wasn't going to work in Washington. Yeah. Um, but that
was his second that was his second go around. So
when I when I was at the end and I
(34:22):
went and and left and went to to the New
York Giants, that was that was so I had coming in,
I had North Turner. Then there was Terry Robiski before
the season was over. Then then I had UH coach Burrier, Oh,
Laura Uh. Then I had UH coach Ottenheimer. Wait, wait,
coach Sottenheimer, then coach Spurrier, coach Schottenheimer, then coach burs
(34:46):
So you're a great example of this, and and Joy
and I have talked about this in our careers. I
always tell people there's a sea of money, chase good management. Okay,
there's a there's not a ton of great managers in
my career. There's a lot of money out there in
a lot of networks. You're a great example of Washington.
Your experience was they couldn't get the management right well
(35:07):
as culture calling. And I think that you you you
state it very very well. If you cannot bring in
people who can identify people who build positive and winning culture,
you're destined to fail. And it doesn't matter how much
talent you bring in. Uh, it doesn't matter how much
money you pay people, you're you're going to come up short.
(35:30):
And that was that was one hundred percent. Why why
I brought up Joe Green, You know, you think about
building something Chuck Nole and the Rooney family. You know,
one of the stories that always sticks out to me
is I heard us a story about one of the Rooney's.
Rooney gets there, he pulls up one of the employees.
He pulls up, they get out of the car, they're walking,
they're talking to the building, walking to the building. While
(35:51):
they're talking to one another, Well, the story goes, wait,
I'm talking to you. We're walking from the same place,
which is the back of the parking lot. Why are
you parked up front? And Art Rooney responds to the
young man and says, because we're all here to win
together as a team. So if I get here early
enough to get one of the closer parking spaces, that's
(36:13):
where I'll park. If I get here at the time
that we just got here at and everybody's already here working,
I'll park where an open spot is. And apparently we
both have the same spots at the back of the
parking lot. To me, that's building culture. You're building winning culture.
You're no better than me. I'm no better than you.
(36:34):
If I wash the clothing that comes off of the
field when they practice, if I mow the lawn, if
I'm cleaning the commodes, whatever it may be. You should
never be so big that you remove yourself from the
people that help you to win. And I think that
that's why people come up short, especially in pro sports.
Let's talk about Cleveland and then Arraiders. There are more
(36:57):
free agent signings now than we're ten years ago. Cleveland
went and spent big money on some guys. The Raiders
have spent a ton for a left tackle who I
think is good, not great, and a wide receiver who's
talented but comes with a little baggage Antonio Brown. When
you're in a locker room and I've always wondered about this,
and a team goes out and spends money and they
bring in somebody, and you've put three years in with
(37:19):
a team and you busted your butt, and then they
go and say, we're gonna pay this guy's more than
you see. I really it, really, you know that part
of it shouldn't matter. Right. You worry about what's going
into your bank account, worry about what your performance is
and worry about how you can contribute to the team.
But that's culturally speaking, right. If you go to an
(37:42):
organization where it is it is okay for you to
feel that way about somebody coming in making that type
of dollar and you've been there, or you're in an
organization where you know the money is what drives the hierarchy.
At those places, you're destined to fail. So the reality
of it is is that you could go to a
(38:03):
place like New England make more money than the guy
that that's been there. But I'm I'm certain of this,
even though I don't know the New England uh you
know locker room very well at all at this point.
But I'm certain those guys are welcoming that guy with
open arms and saying, let's go get another Super Bowl,
not can I get a meal tonight? Can you take
me to this fast star restaurant over here. They've created
(38:25):
the culture where they trust Bill and Well and it's
a trust it's a trust environment. So so even if
it stems beyond the trust of just the coach, there
is a collective There is a collective culture that says
this is what we want to achieve, this is the
standard and once you once you've established that, once, once
(38:46):
that comes from from on hide to down low, then
that becomes that becomes gospel. And once once you've established that,
you see what why is Tom Brady still able to
have success in a young man's game? Why why are
they seemed to be written off every single year but
are always competing or winning a Super Bowl? It is
(39:08):
because of their way of approaching their business, the organization
of it. I don't I think. I think John Gruden
is trying to figure that out. I know, mayok, he's
a fine man. I think they're trying to figure it out.
But culture doesn't happen overnight. No, it does not, And
I'll be honest with you, and until you are able
(39:29):
to establish what that is, they're in a danger zone.
McKenzie was a fine GM. Yeah, I never had a
fall with them, very fine GM. But something was not correct,
Something was turbulent about that organization and still maybe to
this day. Now we'll find out. The beauty about this
game is you get to see it play out. So
(39:49):
we're going to find out if I'm a betting man,
if I were a betting man, which I'm not, but
if I were, those two organizations that you just mentioned
in Oakland. They're not gonna win. They're not gonna win. Odell,
He's Odell. You're gonna win with selling Odell jerseys. You're
(40:11):
gonna win with selling Juice jerseys. Like, oh, they're back
together the LSU. Click. Great, they're not gonna win. Sorry,
you got a Heisman Trophy winner throwing the football. They're
not gonna win. Well. I picked Pittsburgh to win the
division because of the Rooney's tomlin Ben. They're old line,
(40:32):
and people said, you're crazy, And I'm like, what am
I gonna bet on? Thirty years of excellence or a
red hot team that brought in Odell. It's not going
against Cleveland. I tend to bet cultures over rosters. That's
what I do. And it's a safe. It's a safe.
That's a safe. That's a safe decision. I'm gonna bet.
I like the Rams next year. I like the Eagles,
(40:53):
I like the Chiefs. I like the Colts, I like
the Paytriots, I like the Steelers. I'm taking cultures more
than I have rosters. I think those are good picks. Yeah,
I'm sitting here running them through my hat right now.
What you just shot off at me, and I think
those are pretty good. LaVar Arrington, don't be afraid to
drop bry the show if you want to promote something
for your high school. Good dude, Good seeing you again. Hey,
Marianatha High School in Pasadena, come come check us out Friday.
(41:15):
You look, I'm going to look for you to come
see me on a Friday. Pasadena is great. It's good Pasadena.
It gets a little warm out there. Good restaurants though,
very nice. Good high school football super good now, Leavar,
good seeing you.
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. Here we go to Tuesday. Draftis Thursday,
(00:25):
right around the corner. This is The Herd live in
Los Angeles. Wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. We're on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Lincoln Riley, Oklahoma football head coach who coach Kyler Murray,
who now appears to be going number one. We'll join
us in one hour from now. Joy Taylor stopping in
(00:45):
as usual. How are you, Joy, I'm great. In morning.
Here we go pretty close to the draft, very very
close to the draft. It's Thursday, and there are stories.
Now here's where we begin. There are stories now from
reputable sources, people I trust. But it does appear Arizona's
made a decision, and increasingly it looks like the decision
(01:06):
is to move off Josh Rosen and to draft Kyler Murray.
Not what I would necessarily do, but I get what
they're trying to do. They have a coach in Cliff Kingsbury.
It appears Kyler Murray is better for his system. You
can certainly make the argument in that division with Jimmy
g Russell, Wilson, Jared Goff, you're gonna need some dynamic
(01:27):
playmaker at the quarterback position. I get the argument. But
Arizona last year, I don't think they're brilliantly run. I
think they have the fourth best roster in the division,
and I think Josh Rosen may be very lucky here
and end up with a better football team and a
better roster and an easier division going forward. So Peter
King is saying this morning he would be surprised if
(01:49):
the Cardinals didn't draft Kyler Murray with a top overall pick,
and Joel Klatt said this yesterday and I trust him
on our show. Any inside sources saying Arizona will take
Kyler Murray, Yes, Oh, so you're breaking news here. I'm
not breaking news. I'm okay. I would be shocked if
(02:10):
they're If they're not going to take him, right there
you go, Peter King, Joel Klatt believe it strongly. Let
me just say this, you got to get the quarterback
position right. This is starting to feel like not only
a game changer for Arizona, but such an opportunity for
the New York Giants. A couple of years ago, there
(02:30):
was this team on the West Coast called the San
Francisco forty nine Ers, and they'd hire this young offensive coach,
Kyle Shanahan, no proven head coaching track record. They had
a general manager, John Lynch that we were all kind
of unsure off if it would work, and they had
some good players on the roster, but we just kind
of thought, nah. All of a sudden, they signed Jimmy
(02:53):
G from New England, and like instantly you're like, okay,
we got real franchise here. Okay, now we got the coach,
Now we got the quarterback. The GM seems to know
what he's doing, and they already had a good pie.
Just the Jimmy G signing took the Niners from like
a mess. And the Niners again had an offensive coach, unproven,
a GM we weren't sure of, they were unsure going
(03:15):
forward on quarterback. And then Jimmy G came in boom.
Here's the New York Giants. They have an offensive coach,
Pat Sherman, with a great track record, but we're not
sure of they have some good players on that roster.
We know that for sure. Like the Niners, they got
some explosive players. They have a general manager Dave Gentleman.
We're not really sure it's gonna work. And they're unsure
their quarterback going forward. And here's Josh Rosen. He's the
(03:40):
Jimmy G and, like Jimmy G, a beautiful thrower of
the football. Little bit with both of injury concerns. Jimmy
G got hurt at New England couple of times. People
are like Rosen in college got hurt a little bit, Bubba.
Both Rosen and Jimmy G did not have enough starts
to definitive Lea say. We know they'll be blank, but
(04:03):
boy they looked apart. And for both Garoppolo, all it
took was a second round pick, and for the Giants,
it appears all it's gonna take is a second round pick. Giants,
being the Niners, step up, make the obvious move if
you're not gonna draft Dwayne Haskins which I would. I
think we're overthinking the room on Dwayne Haskins. I draft him.
(04:24):
If you're not, go get Josh Rosen. If you don't
have the quarterback situations settled in this league, it hangs
over the fans, the locker room, the players. I mean,
Jacksonville had that one great year, but I mean you
just it never felt sealed in The Niners. Were the Giants,
(04:44):
smart offensive coach a GM. We weren't sure of some interesting, captivating,
talented players on the roster. Quarterback unsettled, and the Niners
are like, let's seal this up. Let's just seal this.
Let's let's get our guy boom Garoppolo. And the next
day we're all like, all right, at the real franchise, Giant,
you have twelve draft picks, two high first round draft picks,
(05:07):
three of the top thirty seven draft picks. You have
two major needs on the team, pass rusher and a
quarterback going forward step up. This seems so incredibly garoppolo
ish to me. Josh Rosen, Garoppolo second round picks, good
(05:32):
throwers of the football, little injury concern. Pick up offense
is real quick, make your move, all right, let's shift
gears to this Oklahoma City and Russell Westbrook could be
done by the end of the night. I think it'll
be a close, competitive game. One of the things my
wife always says in life, you can be a great example,
(05:54):
or you could be a horrible warning, and both work.
As apparent, kids see their mom and dad as great examples,
or maybe the family's a little chaotic and the kids
look at it and go, I'm not going to be that.
Be a great example or a horrible warning, preferably a
great example, but both work. Russell Westbrook has obviously since
(06:18):
the divorce from Kevin Durant eroded. He's not the same player.
Durant has flourished, Westbrook has eroded, But Russell Westbrook is
also a horrible warning. If you draft and build around
a highly athletic point guard that's a below average shooter.
Derrick Rose, John Wall Westbrook now three examples, you will
(06:39):
not You will not be a playoff contender. It is
now a Shooters League less athletic point guards that can shoot.
Kyrie Irving has never lost a first round playoff series.
Steph Curry and James Harden are now growing and flourishing.
Sports gives you great examples and horrible warnings. We now
(07:04):
have three hyper athletic point guards that teams in the
media fell in love with wall Rose and Westbrook, and
it doesn't work super athletes. We now have three point
guards that aren't as athletic, Hardened Steph and Kyrie Irving.
I think Kyrie is now something like I don't know
(07:25):
sixteen to know in the first round. Listen, this year
Westbrook shot thirty one percent on jumpers, Hardened shot forty,
Lillard shot forty, and Curry shot forty four percent. Just
pay attention. Just pay attention. If you're a GM, if
you're an executive, you're a coach who has GM powers.
(07:46):
If you fall for the highly athletic point guard who
can't shoot, then it's on you. From time to time
all speak to young broadcasters and young journalism students, and
one of the messages I always say is just pay attention.
Twenty years ago newspapers died. Don't go into newspapers. Ten
years ago magazines died. Get rid of that idea, and
(08:09):
today websites are dying. Don't go out and spend all
your money on a website. Think about a podcast, Think
about audio, think about TV, think about play by play,
think about life, will tell you which direction to go,
lose your ego, pay attention. Like Westbrook is really actually
(08:29):
a great warning going ahead. He'll give you highlights, he
can give you some awards, he can sell tickets and merchandise.
He's fun to watch. I mean, I'll be watching that
game tonight. I watched a lot of Westbrook. But if
you want to win in the playoffs in an increasingly
shooters driven league, the answer is scale back a little
(08:52):
bit on the athleticism. Don't pass on a guy in
the draft because he's not quite athletic enough. Kyrie Staff,
James Harden, because it's a shooters leak. And you've got
now multiple examples over and over of what works and
what doesn't. Okay, this is be a great example or
(09:14):
a horrible warning. My guest tonight is Portland wins the
series simply because they've got more shotmakers. They don't have
the best athletic roster, they got the second best. Curry
Damian Lillard never gets talked about as an elite point guard.
CJ McCollum, I think is a really good shooter, but
not much else. Doesn't play any defense. They got shotmakers,
(09:35):
that's what Portland has. The athletes some size, that's Oklahoma City.
The guys that can hit sixteen footers and twenty one footers,
that's Portland. I think they'll win tonight. Be sure to
catch live editions of the Herd weekdays and noon Easter
ninety Empacific. I would not trade Josh Rosen for Kyler Murray,
but Kyler Murray's coach is joining us in an hour.
(09:56):
The draft is kind of fascinating. So, oh, here's another
Raiders story that's come out. This is this is very interesting.
So according to Ian Rappaport, the Raiders may be planning
quote a surprise pick their fourth overall selection. Hey, everybody,
we got a big surprise coming. I don't know. Unless
(10:17):
you're drafting like a baseball player, I don't know what
you could do at this point. Maybe a quarterback technically,
Kyler Murray is also a baseball player, all right, gas,
But I think Arizona's got the number one pick and
they're gonna take him, you know. Then Friday, the story
came out that the scouts had all been sent home
and nobody trusted them. I'm just gonna give you an
(10:40):
opinion here. It appears the Raiders are leaking stories to
be the most talked about team on Thursday because Arizona
right now, not a very good football team, is getting
talked about a lot because of Kyler Murray. And a
story came out this week they were trying to sell
some tickets. I don't know if that's true or not.
That's the story. Oakland is struggling to sell tickets. It's
(11:02):
a lame duck here in Oakland and there it's one
of the poorest ownership groups in the NFL. I think
it's the poorest. They don't have great stadium revenue. It's
a mess. I think they're trying to sell tickets, and
I think they're leaking stories right now to drum up interest.
I think they want to sell them in Vegas. I
think that that's why they went out and spent for
Antonio Brown. I don't think they thought Antonio Brown was
(11:23):
a didn't come without risk, but I think they thought
it would sell tickets. Oakland's gotta sell tickets. John Gruden
had a quote last summer. His quote last summer was,
I want to be the Patriots. Aren't the Patriots quiet?
Aren't they covert? They don't pay wide receivers. They buy
low and sell high. The Raiders are doing the opposite
(11:45):
of the New England Patriots. And Gruden told you he
wanted to do the New England Patriots. So his first
move was very patriot like, let's get rid of Khalil
Mack can get a bunch of picks. That was his
first move in Oakland. And you're like, it's a no
patriot like, let's let Chandler Jones go and get picked.
And then they let gobamarray Cooper. And you're like, well,
(12:06):
New England doesn't pay receivers. That's a little bit like
the Patriots. So John Gruden talked and I listened. We
want to be his quote last summer, we want to
be the Patriots, all right, Khalil Mack for picks, Well,
that's very Belichick. Belichick does not pay wide receivers. Amari
Cooper gone picks, all right? And then suddenly in the
(12:27):
last couple of months, let's pay a fortune for a
left tackle that maybe the third best in our division.
Let's pay a fortune for wide receiver. Let's go and
leak everything of the press. They're trying to win Thursday night.
That's what this is. They're trying to win Thursday Night
and sell tickets because they can't sell them in Oakland
because the community. The community's ticked off. That's what it
(12:51):
totally feels like to me. John Gruden's initial plan was
exactly what he said it would be very New England like,
which is, don't pay a fortune for anybody outside of
your quarterback. And by the way, don't give your quarterback
a bunch of love. Belichick doesn't give Brady a bunch
of love. Gruden hasn't given Derek Carr a bunch of love.
(13:14):
He moved to Maori, he moved Khalil. That was very
New England. But in the last couple of months, it's
the opposite of New England. And this is what my
biggest fear with John is he's turning into a TV
personality because remember, if you think about Thursday's Draft, and
don't kid yourself, not all organizations in American sports are
about winning games. There's all sorts of organizations. The New
(13:36):
York Giants would love to move off ELI, but they're
afraid of what their older fan base will do. Kobe
Bryant signed a massive contract last couple of years with
the Lakers, why because Time Warner Cable said, we're not
giving the money if your best players. D'Angelo Russell organizations
make moves. All there's two different kind of sports organizations.
The one that are all about winning titles, and then
(13:57):
you get some owners they want to make money. If
they win titles, that'd be great, but we gotta make money.
The Raiders have literally shifted what they do in the
last six months, and I think it's the sell tickets
in Oakland. I think that's what they're doing now that
you get rid of Khalil Mackinamari Cooper and you're bringing
Antonio Brown who's got all sorts of baggage and it
(14:17):
is more expensive a wide receiver. And outside of Arizona,
the Raiders have three picks in the first round. So
I mean that they should be the second story. And
I think they want to be the number one story
and sell four thousand season tickets either in Vegas or Oakland.
That's what I think they want to do. And this
is why are these stories leaking. You know, I have
(14:39):
a theory on this. Stories get out when somebody wants
them out. Why listen to this story? The Raiders may
be planning quote a surprise pick is that New England
Ish no that's trying to sell tickets Ish one more Herd.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
(14:59):
a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search her to listen
live or on demand whenever you like. Let me start
with a Laker topic. They are obviously not in the playoffs.
There's a story out The La Times is all over this.
Now the Lakers are not going to replace Magic Johnson. Okay,
but but Magic will still be helping them recruit players. Okay,
(15:21):
that's not how it works for other teams. But okay,
Now it's up to Rob Polenka. Apparently he's going to
get the job. Rob Polinka, who are Rashmar Kazi, a
Tom column us for The La Time said last week
multiple teams won't return his calls because he was an agent.
He offended people, he alienated people, and a lot of
people won't take his calls and pick up. Here was
a rash There's no trust from people outside of this
(15:43):
Genie Bus Linda circle. Like they don't think Rob knows
what he's doing, and they don't trust Rob. Rob is
not the guy that teams want to trade with. You
got to bring in a guy that if you get
that phone call and you see that color ide, some
teams aren't picking up a photo us as Rob Polinka.
Nobody realize is how big of a problem, Rob Polinka,
I think kids for this team. Okay, So if that
(16:06):
being that's an LA Times columnist, reporter, feed on the
ground foot soldier, a lot of information around the organization.
It feels like to me, two things feel like they've
happened with the Lakers. They've become a mom and pop
organization an incredibly corporate, sophisticated analytical world in the NBA.
The league is very sophisticated, and they feel mom and poppish.
(16:28):
They do not have an elite owner, an elite analytics department.
They don't have a coach, they don't have an elite roster.
I do not believe they have an elite front office.
I'm not taking shots at just you compare them to
Golden State, where do they win players, front office, analytics? Owner? No, no, no, no, no.
You can stack them up against Toronto where do they
win owner, analytics, GM players no, no, no, no no. Now,
(16:51):
I think the Lakers have moved into hail Mary category.
Hail Mary's are occasionally successful, so we're onside kicks. I
think it really comes down to this. I think the
next five years to the Los Angeles Lakers and their
franchise going forward come down to one week, and that's
as soon as the season ends. There's a dead week,
(17:11):
and then July first, it's free agents, and I think
this is their Hail Mary. You trade everything to get
Anthony Davis. I don't think he works necessarily that well
with Lebron, but he's a hell of a player. So
you trade everything to get Anthony Davis. He's represented by
Clutch Sports. They'll probably help lean him into the Lakers.
(17:33):
So you'll have Lebron and Anthony Davis, and then you
cross your fingers on Jimmy Butler. If Philadelphia loses to
Toronto in the next round, and it's going to be
a heck of a series. I get the people who
like Toronto. I like Philly, but I get the Toronto.
They play real good defense, they've got tremendous chemistry, they've
got a little more menum here. And then Jimmy Butler's unhappy.
(17:53):
They decide he's a little distroynt Old Simmons doesn't like him,
and they move him. Jimmy Butler loves La, made no
secret of that. He likes La. That's your hail Mary,
trade everything, just give, Just give the Pelicans more than
everybody else will for Anthony Davis. Just say, here's Kuzma,
here's Ingram, here's Lonzo, here's just just Boom, And then
(18:16):
you have Lebron Anthony Davis, and you cross your fingers
on Jimmy Butler. By the way, I don't think this
is like a ten percent chance or a twenty percent chance.
I think you're in the fifty percent category here. I
don't think this is crazy talk. I think Butler likes
Los Angeles. I think his game actually works with Lebron.
I think he'd stay in line with Lebron a little bit.
I do. Anthony Davis isn't perfect with Lebron, but he's
gonna give you twenty four and ten, twenty four and twelve.
(18:39):
He's a good player, and he's a he's a thoughtful player.
I mean, he's a guy didn't need a lot of attention.
You know, he didn't have problem Lebron getting love and
Butler getting love. Anthony. He likes to play hoops. He
likes to win games. He'll give you twenty three twelve.
I think he's a good kid. I don't think he's
a great leader. I think sometimes he's a tad soft,
doesn't play with injuries much. But if Kevin Durant left
Golden State and nextra I said, well, it's one team's
(19:02):
got Anthony Davis, Lebron and Jimmy Butler, that sounds like
it's pretty good. That a pretty good team. That's better
than Lebron, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingham, Lonzo Ball, Josh Harden,
a bunch of nothing. So I kind of feel like
right now, if you're a Laker fan, an ownership, front office, analytics, roster,
(19:24):
and they're really stack up. But I don't think it's
a crazy hail mary. This is a hail mary when
you have two six seven wide receivers in the end
zone and they have small corners. It's it's not a
terrible hail Mary. And I think that's where we're at
right now. Yeah, it's yeah, it's a it's an Aaron
Rodgers hail mary. Better than average. Aaron's slown it up there,
(19:46):
Davante Adams is tall, Jimmy Graham's up there. You got
a shot um all right. So Odell Beckham and Dave
Gettlman had a little whizzing match on over the weekend.
Dave Gentleman said we no longer have a culture problem.
Odell Beckham fired back. I think they both should have
just not said much. I will say this about the
(20:09):
New York Giants though very quietly. The New York Giants
have accumulated twelve draft picks, folks. That's double the league average.
They got two first to four, three fifth to seventh,
a second, a third, and a sixth. There are certain
things in certain businesses you got to get right. In
(20:31):
the transportation business, got to be punctual. You can screw
up a lot. Gotta be punctual. In the restaurant food industry,
you got to get the service right. Just get the
service right. In the hotel hospitality business, got to be clean.
Nobody wants a dirty hotel. In the NFL general manager business,
(20:55):
for god's sakes, get the quarterback right. You can win
on the secondary. You can whiff on kickers, you can
whiff on pass rushers. I mean, folks. New England gets
the head coach and the quarterback right. They've whipped on
wide receivers. You can argue they're the worst drafting wide
receiver team in the NFL in the last seven years,
eight years. When I look at the New York Giants,
(21:20):
I have two Please either get Josh Rosen just go
get him. He's Garoppolo, just go get him. Or draft
Dwayne Haskins at six. Don't overthink the route. If you
don't take him at six, he's not going to be
available at seventeen because Cincinnati's gonna get him. Miaim He's
gonna get him. Folks were overthinking the room on Dwayne Haskins.
(21:44):
He's big, he's a good kid, he's coachable, he's strong,
he's accurate. I watched him play eight games this year.
Every time I watched him, he was better. He got
better every week. He's six three and a half now.
He doesn't have great feet, but god, let's let's not
make him into some guy in the PBA Tour. He
is athletic enough. And by the way, look around the league.
(22:06):
A lot of guys that aren't winning, a lot of
guys aren't you saying bolt back there. I think we're
overthinking the room on this thing. I mean, he's a big, tall,
accurate kid. I watched him at the end of the
year against Washington and Michigan. Those are the two best
defenses he played. Is really good. He hits the open guys.
I mean again, I don't think he's Andrew Luck as
(22:27):
a prospect. I don't think he's you know, maybe you know,
maybe not Cam Newton dynamic. But aren't we going a
little nuts here? I mean Kyler Murray. I think he's
a first round prospect. And Kyler's tiny from a conference
the Big twelve that until recently kind of gave you
a whiffs at quarterback, Urban Meyer talked about something that
(22:51):
fans don't see. That one of the things about Dwayne Haskins.
He's really good pre snap at lining up the line.
So that tells me the kids alert. And this is
what Urban said about him. There's great peasants to understand
which way to flip the protection, and that's going to
be I think that's one of the most overlooked things
or quarterbacks. What's his football IQ? Because when you see
(23:14):
a nut get hit, you say, well, the offense line's great.
Wait a minute. A lot of times is they're flipping
protections to make sure they're picking up the pressures, and
that's what other than accuracy, that's joined strength. Is he
a mature enough to be a five billion dollars franchise?
Not yet. He's close though, He's only got one year
under his belt, and I think this situation will be perfect.
And there's a couple of them out there. He comes in,
he learns for a year. At some point he'll be
(23:36):
the face of a franchise. Okay, okay, so land Zerline,
his dad was a coach for years. He's a Houston
based scout. I think he does a radio show. We've
brought him on the show before. He's a guy I like.
I bring him on the show before the draft. It
works for the NFL network. Very smart guy. And now
I'm looking at his sheet of strengths and weaknesses and
I just love all these strengths. Groom for this moment.
(23:58):
Since he was a kid, that's almost always this story
with a John Elway and Andrew Lux and Peyton mannings
well schooled understanding of how to get himself protected. Seriously,
is there anything more important than that he's a full
field reader on an NFL level. That means he's not
one of these college kids. That's overwhelmed, effortless, throwing motion,
(24:20):
ball explodes out of his hands down field, he alters
his trajectory depending on coverage and space. That was something
Kaepernick always struggled with. He threw a fastball. Only this
kid can go slider, curve, sturdy build, shake, free of
pocket traffic. I love all those things. Here's the knock
on him. There haven't been a lot of successful quarterbacks
with so many few career starts. All right, don't love it,
(24:43):
but he can sity you're in New York. The other
thing below average athlete, all right is Peyton Manning Olympics
printer Brady Sluggish, heavy feet when he scrambles. I agree.
It can't be worse than Eli. It can't be worth
an Elie. All the things I see that you don't
(25:05):
like about Dwayne are stuff you can coach up. But
the things I see as strengths if you don't do him,
I mean, groomed for this moment since he was a kid,
rare passing production, well schooled, knows how to get himself protected.
A full field reader. Like guys that come into this
(25:25):
league and they don't read the full field, they really
struggle early. I just think we're over Giants. Here's your moment.
Either trade for Rosen or get Haskins. You're gonna regret
passing on this kid. I'm sorry. I'm not saying he's
an a prospect? Is Matt Ryan and a prospect? He
got to a Super Bowl? I didn't think Matt Ryan
was an a prospect. Be sure to catch live editions
(25:45):
of The Herd weekdays in noon Easter nine a Empacific
on Fox Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio app.
Three time Pro Bowl or eight NFL seasons, now a
coach both he and his wife LaVar Arrington, who I
just told him outside of a little grand that beard,
he looks like he drafted Thursday. He does not age.
He was a dominant player at Penn State, Washington Redskins,
New York Giants. How are you very well? I'm great.
(26:08):
So it's a great defensive line draft. Jet last year
was all quarterback talk. You know, this year Kyler Murray,
Dwayne Haskins. I like both Haskins a little more than
everybody else. Kyler scares me a little bit size, But
it's a defensive line draft. You coached an under armour
game and you coached a kid named Ed Oliver who
we never watched play because he played at Houston. Okay,
(26:29):
but we didn't see him in college. Sure, we saw
Rashawn Gary in Michigan. We saw Bosa at Ohio State. Sure,
this kid's an interesting prospect. What do you what do
you make of it? He's my guy in this draft.
You know, I like Bosa. I mean when you look
at his his his lineage and those different things. I
like Gary. I had those guys in an under armour
(26:49):
game just as much Evan Kyler Murray, right. But Ed Oliver,
he is Aaron Donald two point oh man. And I'll
tell you his his pad level, his movement, his ability
to deliver a blow, his motor um. I haven't seen
anything like it since an Aaron Donald. Now, he got
(27:11):
into a foreign Aaron Donald. Yeah, he got into a
fight with his coaches. He co agreement, disagreement, is coachable.
He's coachable. He no see And that's the thing about it.
You know, it's interesting. I was having a conversation about
now versus when I was coming out. If I get
into a situation like d Oliver coming out in the draft,
(27:31):
I am the worst thing. I'm a cancer. He's undraftable,
this and that and the other. But technical, you know,
advances are so great and so far ahead. Now you
can build your own, your own narrative. You can you
can endare yourself to your your consumer into to the
fan base at Oliver. If he was really the guy
(27:51):
that that maybe some try to portray him as coming
out of that situation with with his coach at Houston,
I think there would have been more conversations about it.
I think there would have been a lot of narratives
that would go along with what took place at that
moment in time. To be honest with you, I think
the culpability there lied on the leadership versus the young
(28:15):
man that was playing so and if that's the only
question I had on him at that moment in time,
I don't think that that's a large enough question to
not be high on. A. Yeah, he had an incident,
it doesn't define him, correct. I have no problem with
guys having an incident. I mean, we could have an
incident right now, right here and hug it out and
be okay. Tomorrow. They might be okay. They might be
best of friends, like I'm sorry at like I'm sorry
(28:37):
to coach, like we had a moment. It was caught
on camera. Boom boom boom. Move on. By the way,
half the NFL is undrafted. Many of the great players
your t os did not play at massive schools. I
always love these guys that play. Love where you're going.
Don't get caught up in guys play. If you go
look at quarterbacks in this league, Miami of Ohio, NC State, Boston.
(29:00):
How many Alabama guys start. How many USC guys start?
Not many. So I like guys who get overlooked at
the college level and Opata Houston and are ticked off
for three years. I think it's a huge advantage to
at Oliver and players like that. That point that you
make is so it's so tremendous. I'm from Pittsburgh, all
(29:21):
right now I'm gonna go to a different error, And
things have changed very dramatically since being in Pittsburgh. In
this draft I'm telling you about, but you were here,
I was not here. A guy by the name A
Mean Joe Green gets drafted to the Pittsburgh Steelers. The
entire foundation and identity was built on this man's his
(29:43):
ability to do what he did on the field, right right?
Could you tell me what college he went to? I
can't a college by the name of Northern Texas, all right,
and I think they were called the Green Mean Machine
or some Yeah, he goes number four in that draft,
(30:03):
all right, nineteen I want to say nineteen sixty nine.
He goes in that draft and totally changed the entire
trajectory of Chuck Knowles Pittsburgh Steelers. By the way, Terry
Bradshaw did not go to LSU. Where did he go?
Like Louisiana task something like that, right, So you cannot
when you look at the draft, the most interesting aspect
(30:26):
of the draft is the big names and the big schools.
It's just all about the consumer and what they want
to see. You know. You think about the Haskins, you
think about the Bosas, you think about the Gary's. I
named all big ten players there, right, I'm I'm partial, Uh,
But if you think about these big schools where these
guys come from, and you get the lineman from LSU
(30:49):
and from Alabama and the SEC, and it really is
consumer driven. And I take a step back as a
as a high school coach, I got how many players
get the hype machine behind them and get these tremendously
large scholarship offers, and this school and that school, and
(31:09):
they have like upwards of twenty scholarship offers, and then
there's a guy over here that has none. That's probably
twice the player that this kid that has all of
these scholarships. He didn't go to a powerhouse high school
football program. It's a possible. Let's go back to when
you were in this league. Now, you were a dominant player,
You were a dominant player at Penn State, but you
(31:29):
end up going to the Redskins. Do you remember your
first couple of years, a draft pick, a young guy
in the team that came from nowhere, and you were like, oh,
he would have been great at Penn State. Did you
ever play with one of those guys? A whole bunch?
I mean, the Holmes couches are littered. There's probably a
ton of guys helping you with your wood at home
(31:51):
depot or or scanning you out somewhere. Had at Wegman's right,
that was probably a better player than LeVar Arrington. Truth,
true story, But the reality of it is is for
someone like me, I had the opportunity to grow up
with Dwight White as a mentor. I had Jerome Bettis.
(32:12):
We had the same barber shots out to Dave on
North Side. I had the opportunity to learn that it's
more about branding yourself and understanding how to define your
identity as a person versus even being that player that
people want you to be on the football. Just think
about this, think about in the last this is why
I love the draft. If I said to you ten
(32:33):
best players in the NFL over the last ten years.
Gronk went to a basketball school, yep, literally basketball school.
Tom Brady sixth round, struggled to start at Michigan. I
remember Tom Brady. He was in your draft. He was
in my Listen what you just said. He was in
my draft. You got picked eight. That was the last
(32:55):
my thing as it applies to my versus Tom Brady.
Do you know how Manny you remember all the quarterbacks
got picked ahead of him? Yes, one of them is
now a goat farmer in Napa Valley. I swear to God,
I swear there's six of them, and a lot of them,
by the way, big arm guys, big strong guys in here. K.
You didn't even see Tom playing college in the Big ten,
did you? Actually? He beat us a few times? Really,
(33:17):
but I wore him out in college. You know, Tom
Brady was not ready for LaVar Arrington in college, right,
But that just tells you, and that goes to show
you even though I got the best of him hit
to head, they won the game. But statistically speaking, I
did very well against Michigan, very well. But that sometimes
doesn't translate to what you're gonna be once you go
(33:39):
to the next level. Do you go back to your
career with Washington. When you were with Washington, they were very,
very well run. And then he went to the Giants.
Who was the coach there, Tom Coughlin. Okay, well, if
you want to know what the Redskins I mean, do
we have enough time in this second? Got me to
name all of the coaches I had one hand with
their head coaches at one point than I did years
(34:00):
in the league. So Joe Gibbs was gone. I had Joe. Well,
I'm not that old. You had had the second. I
had the second Joe Gibbs. Okay, So Joe. Joe was
kind of like a reason why I left left Washington.
It just got to the point of where it just
wasn't going to work in Washington. Yeah. Um, but that
was his second that was his second go around. So
when I when I was at the end and I
(34:22):
went and and left and went to to the New
York Giants, that was that was so I had coming in,
I had North Turner. Then there was Terry Robiski before
the season was over. Then then I had UH coach Burrier, Oh,
Laura Uh. Then I had UH coach Ottenheimer. Wait, wait,
coach Sottenheimer, then coach Spurrier, coach Schottenheimer, then coach burs
(34:46):
So you're a great example of this, and and Joy
and I have talked about this in our careers. I
always tell people there's a sea of money, chase good management. Okay,
there's a there's not a ton of great managers in
my career. There's a lot of money out there in
a lot of networks. You're a great example of Washington.
Your experience was they couldn't get the management right well
(35:07):
as culture calling. And I think that you you you
state it very very well. If you cannot bring in
people who can identify people who build positive and winning culture,
you're destined to fail. And it doesn't matter how much
talent you bring in. Uh, it doesn't matter how much
money you pay people, you're you're going to come up short.
(35:30):
And that was that was one hundred percent. Why why
I brought up Joe Green, You know, you think about
building something Chuck Nole and the Rooney family. You know,
one of the stories that always sticks out to me
is I heard us a story about one of the Rooney's.
Rooney gets there, he pulls up one of the employees.
He pulls up, they get out of the car, they're walking,
they're talking to the building, walking to the building. While
(35:51):
they're talking to one another, Well, the story goes, wait,
I'm talking to you. We're walking from the same place,
which is the back of the parking lot. Why are
you parked up front? And Art Rooney responds to the
young man and says, because we're all here to win
together as a team. So if I get here early
enough to get one of the closer parking spaces, that's
(36:13):
where I'll park. If I get here at the time
that we just got here at and everybody's already here working,
I'll park where an open spot is. And apparently we
both have the same spots at the back of the
parking lot. To me, that's building culture. You're building winning culture.
You're no better than me. I'm no better than you.
(36:34):
If I wash the clothing that comes off of the
field when they practice, if I mow the lawn, if
I'm cleaning the commodes, whatever it may be. You should
never be so big that you remove yourself from the
people that help you to win. And I think that
that's why people come up short, especially in pro sports.
Let's talk about Cleveland and then Arraiders. There are more
(36:57):
free agent signings now than we're ten years ago. Cleveland
went and spent big money on some guys. The Raiders
have spent a ton for a left tackle who I
think is good, not great, and a wide receiver who's
talented but comes with a little baggage Antonio Brown. When
you're in a locker room and I've always wondered about this,
and a team goes out and spends money and they
bring in somebody, and you've put three years in with
(37:19):
a team and you busted your butt, and then they
go and say, we're gonna pay this guy's more than
you see. I really it, really, you know that part
of it shouldn't matter. Right. You worry about what's going
into your bank account, worry about what your performance is
and worry about how you can contribute to the team.
But that's culturally speaking, right. If you go to an
(37:42):
organization where it is it is okay for you to
feel that way about somebody coming in making that type
of dollar and you've been there, or you're in an
organization where you know the money is what drives the hierarchy.
At those places, you're destined to fail. So the reality
of it is is that you could go to a
(38:03):
place like New England make more money than the guy
that that's been there. But I'm I'm certain of this,
even though I don't know the New England uh you
know locker room very well at all at this point.
But I'm certain those guys are welcoming that guy with
open arms and saying, let's go get another Super Bowl,
not can I get a meal tonight? Can you take
me to this fast star restaurant over here. They've created
(38:25):
the culture where they trust Bill and Well and it's
a trust it's a trust environment. So so even if
it stems beyond the trust of just the coach, there
is a collective There is a collective culture that says
this is what we want to achieve, this is the
standard and once you once you've established that, once, once
(38:46):
that comes from from on hide to down low, then
that becomes that becomes gospel. And once once you've established that,
you see what why is Tom Brady still able to
have success in a young man's game? Why why are
they seemed to be written off every single year but
are always competing or winning a Super Bowl? It is
(39:08):
because of their way of approaching their business, the organization
of it. I don't I think. I think John Gruden
is trying to figure that out. I know, mayok, he's
a fine man. I think they're trying to figure it out.
But culture doesn't happen overnight. No, it does not, And
I'll be honest with you, and until you are able
(39:29):
to establish what that is, they're in a danger zone.
McKenzie was a fine GM. Yeah, I never had a
fall with them, very fine GM. But something was not correct,
Something was turbulent about that organization and still maybe to
this day. Now we'll find out. The beauty about this
game is you get to see it play out. So
(39:49):
we're going to find out if I'm a betting man,
if I were a betting man, which I'm not, but
if I were, those two organizations that you just mentioned
in Oakland. They're not gonna win. They're not gonna win. Odell,
He's Odell. You're gonna win with selling Odell jerseys. You're
(40:11):
gonna win with selling Juice jerseys. Like, oh, they're back
together the LSU. Click. Great, they're not gonna win. Sorry,
you got a Heisman Trophy winner throwing the football. They're
not gonna win. Well. I picked Pittsburgh to win the
division because of the Rooney's tomlin Ben. They're old line,
(40:32):
and people said, you're crazy, And I'm like, what am
I gonna bet on? Thirty years of excellence or a
red hot team that brought in Odell. It's not going
against Cleveland. I tend to bet cultures over rosters. That's
what I do. And it's a safe. It's a safe.
That's a safe. That's a safe decision. I'm gonna bet.
I like the Rams next year. I like the Eagles,
(40:53):
I like the Chiefs. I like the Colts, I like
the Paytriots, I like the Steelers. I'm taking cultures more
than I have rosters. I think those are good picks. Yeah,
I'm sitting here running them through my hat right now.
What you just shot off at me, and I think
those are pretty good. LaVar Arrington, don't be afraid to
drop bry the show if you want to promote something
for your high school. Good dude, Good seeing you again. Hey,
Marianatha High School in Pasadena, come come check us out Friday.
(41:15):
You look, I'm going to look for you to come
see me on a Friday. Pasadena is great. It's good Pasadena.
It gets a little warm out there. Good restaurants though,
very nice. Good high school football super good now, Leavar,
good seeing you.
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