November 1, 2019 • 47 mins
Colin explains why Jimmy Garoppolo's face has a lot to do with his success, NFL scouts agree. He thinks the Cardinals have a good young QB in Kyler Murray but might not have the ability to help him. The Ringer's NFL Writer Kevin Clark comes in studio to talk about the Patriots toughest test so far against the Ravens and why he was so right about Mitch Trubisky. Plus, Colin thinks the AFC North is still up for grabs between the Browns and Ravens and explains why.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Friday.
(00:25):
We are absolutely loaded. This is the Herd live in
La wherever you may be, however you may be listening iHeartRadio,
Fox Sports Radio and FS one. One hour from now
Blazing five. Love my picks, Love Love Love my Blazing
five picks this week, some fascinating games. I'm going with
(00:47):
some favorites this week. Last week I went with dogs
and they were all dogs. Joey Taylor is joining me. Yeah,
the World Series. Two nights ago, we had an NFL
game that we didn't know about but ended up being
wildly entertaining. It's a great game. Actually, what's you pretty
much called? I said it would be closer than people think.
It's not to get caught up in that h not
the hype, but I think I think it delivered. It
(01:09):
was very fine. San Francisco had a bunch of dominating wins.
It's the NFL, go on the road, come back to Earth.
Let me start with this. I started, Um, I've been
doing syndicated radio now for about fifteen years. I was
a local guy, right, and about fourteen fifteen, sixteen years ago,
I started talking about something on the air and nobody'd
(01:30):
ever talked about it, and some people said it was
ridiculous and absurd, and people wrote articles about it, and
I said, you ever notice that there's a lot of
quarterbacks in the history of football. A lot of the
best quarterbacks are really handsome, Like would walk into a
room full of men and you'd be like, Oh, that's
a guy's really handsome. You know, there's you know, obviously
there's obvious some Brett five guys out there, but like,
(01:50):
there's quarterback position more than any other position. And I
started getting calls and back then emails from NFL guys saying, Hey,
I like your show. You talk a lot of football,
and there's something we call quarterback face, and it is
a real thing. We're looking for confidence. Yes, an arm Yes,
(02:12):
you started for three years in college. Yes, all the
requisite skills. NFL scouts call it quarterback face, and Jimmy
G has the league's best quarterback face. My wife doesn't
watch a lot of sports. She goes, boys, San Francisco's good,
who's their quarterback? And I showed her a picture of
Jimmy G on my phone. She goes, oh my god,
(02:32):
Oh my lord, he looks like a quarterback. And I said, yes,
it's called quarterback face and it matters. And he reminds
me of a young Tom Brady who we said, well,
he's got a coach. Brady's got balot check and a
defense in a running game. But there was an it
quality to Tom Brady and that it, to me, was
Oah's confidence. And I know it sounds absurd, but he
(02:55):
was so great on third down last night, and third
down in the NFL for a quarterback is not only
the money down, it's the confidence down. Garoppolo is great
on third down. He plays cocky, he goes for it.
And I know it sounds absurd, but I started talking
about this years ago. And if you look like Jimmy
(03:15):
G and walked into rooms from fifteen years old until
twenty eight years old, I don't even have to ask Joy,
I can figure it out, you'd feel pretty darn good
about yourself. You'd turn heads and look at baseball, Look
how many great players going to hitting slumps. They don't
forget how to hit, they lose their confidence. Look how
(03:36):
many great golfers get what they call the yips. They
don't forget how to chip and put, they lose their confidence.
Derek Jeter used to o say, I don't want a
lot of things negatively swimming in my head during a
baseball season. I want to go to the plate and
feel good about the game and feel good about myself.
(03:57):
It's easy to feel good about yourself when you look
like Jimmy And last night on third down, I'm watching
him and I'm like, God, he plays. I mean, the
guy's only started like eighteen games. He plays? Was so
much confidence on third down? Eighty six percent completion percentage,
hundred and fifty three paths are rating. And Kyle Shanahan
(04:18):
talked about his third down after the game, and that's
usually where quarterbacks are in their money. I mean, you
can do a lot of things. I'm first and second down,
and you know you can mix and run or pass
and kind of even out the game. But on third
down that pass rush is coming. They always have their
best coverage as and Blitz called and I mean, you
need a good guy back there. He was on a
night throwing. He got to the right spots and when
it wasn't there, he made plays with his legs. You know,
(04:40):
it's funny about this topic, Dolan, You're really silly and
this is but when the scout started calling me and
saying no, it's a real thing. You go back to
the Dallas Cowboys. If you look at their franchise quarterbacks,
it's you know, Aikman and stop back and Dak and
this square John and the Tony Romo. It's like. And
then the Niners all time quarterbacks Joe Montana, Steve Young, Garoppolo,
(05:01):
Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady and I grew up in Seattle.
All the girls love Jim Zorn. And then it's Russell Wilson.
There's a confidence thing when you're a handsome guy. It's
called quarterback face. You walk into a room, high school, college,
you walk in and guys are like, that's the guy
on the recess on the playground in seventh grade who
(05:23):
gets the ball, the popular boy who's popular on the playground.
The girls think he's cute, the guys think he's cool.
It's called quarterback face. And I told my wife last night,
and she's got her initial reaction was, oh, my god,
he looks like a quarterback. And I'm like, it's funny
how that works. You think it's nuts? Now, you know,
I'm not saying I'm not saying it's it's always works,
(05:47):
and I'm not saying if you don't have perfect facial symmetry,
you can't be great. I don't need to mention names,
but it is funny far Vind Rodgers into Montana and
the Brady and the Russell Wells, and I watched Roppolo
last night. He plays with so much confidence for a
guy that hadn't started very much, and much like Brady.
When Brady came into the NFL, all we talked about
(06:08):
was his coach just like Kyle Shannon's defense, just like
the Niners. And well, I mean, they run the ball
at will, just like the Niners. And it's like, no,
there's an it quality. And by the way, you gotta
have the you know, by and large, you want to
be about six two in the NFL exceptions, obviously, you
want to have the requisite mobility arm. Obviously, you want
(06:29):
to be a two to three year starter in college. Obviously,
I'm not saying it's the number one box to check
check tech tech tech check. But there is a box
for quarterbacks, the IT box, the confidence box. And I
asked Jimmy Johnson what once? I said, what's leadership? And
Jimmy Johnson, one of the great coaches ever, goes, I
don't really know what it is. Yeah, I g it's
a lot of confidence among other guys. I can't really
(06:52):
explain it, but you know, do you have the confidence?
You know, if you if you succeeded at something a
lot in life. And I'm like, and Jimmy Johns and
I said, with Troy ache when he's like he just
had the Troy just was a it it it it it,
there's an it And I think the it part of
(07:12):
it is quarterback face. That dude, he plays confident. I
would too. I mean that razorstubble that's after shaving. I
mean it's observed. All right, let me shift to this.
There is a player who's very talented. He has been
in and out of rehab, struggled personal struggles. Josh Gordon
(07:34):
very talented New England basically letting him go. And so
now they waited a while, he'll go what they call
like a waiver wire list, meaning you know, bad teams
get the first chance at Josh Gordon. So there's a
team in the NFL that may not get a shot
at him, but there's a team in the NFL. I
would absolutely go get him. Hey, he's imperfect, he's head
(07:58):
of relapses. There's a story are in New England his
work ethic tailed off. If I'm the New Orleans Saints,
you have to go get Josh Gordon because I got
news for you. If you're the Saints, the Dallas Cowboys
give you trouble defensively because you have no vertical passing threat.
You have none, and you have no mobility at quarterback.
(08:20):
So the New Orleans Saints are not getting past San
Francisco's defense. Because to beat San Francisco's defense, there's only
two ways to do it. Arizona showed it last night.
You gotta beat him over the top, and you have
to have a quarterback that's mobile. So Green Bay could
beat green Bay could beat San Francisco. Aaron Rodgers can
move and they can beat you over the top. New
(08:43):
Orleans cannot beat San Francisco. Dallas has shown you, Dallas
last two times they play, the Saints beat us over
the top. We're gonna go into the box, put a
pass rush on Drew Brees, who's not very mobile, and
stop Alvin Kamara. Saints camp score. Now, the Saints have
a great quarterback, great defense, and a great coach. And
I'm not saying San Francisco would blow him out, but
(09:05):
the Saints culture, like New England's, can certainly handle a
player who's had some personal issues. Josh has don't know
him very talented, but you know he's a guy that
struggles with some things that football coaches don't love. But
if you look at New England, what was the hole
of their team? Receiver? They went out and got one
of the trading deadline. San Francisco, what was the hole
(09:26):
in their game? A veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders. They went
and got one. What is the hole in New Orleans game?
No vertical passing threat. Michael Thomas averages one hundred and
nine yards a game. Their second best receiver, Ted Gin
averages less than forty. They don't have a number two
receiver and they don't have any deep threat, nor do
they have a quarterback who's mobile. You're not getting through
(09:48):
San Francisco without one of those two. You gotta beat
him over the top or you gotta beat him with
your legs at quarterback, and Kyler Marie could do both,
especially the latter. He can move by time outrun their
defensive ends. New Orleans. This is absolutely worth the risk.
You have the culture to withstand it, and he gives
(10:09):
you ed the mension you desperately neat. Don't kid yourself.
I mean you know right now in the NFC, I
like a lot of teams in the NFC. Three of
them look different. San Francisco, Green Band, New Orleans, they
all look different. New Orleans is going to have to
face either both or one of those two. And if
you face San Francisco with Breeze, his lack of mobility
(10:31):
and no deep threat, you're not moving the football. You
are not moving the football. I think Josh Gordon to
the Saints makes a ton of sense. Be sure to
catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern
a Empacific. So I'm watching Kyler Murray last night. He's
having a great year. By the way. He's fun as
hell to watch. He's having a terrific year. You know,
the Russell Wilson comp I always said that this is
(10:54):
the closest to Russell Wilson, and they're both baseball players.
He throws a beautiful ball, tight spiral, you know I
always say about Trubisky, his ball dies. Kider's ball just elevates.
He throws a much better ball than the other young quarterbacks.
I think he's more accurate. I like his throwing motion
better than Sam Arnold. I think I like him athletically
more than Baker Mayfield. I think he throws a better
ball than Lamar Jackson. I think he throws a much
(11:15):
better ball than Mitch Trubisky. He's small, and you know,
it's hard for me to get over that because he
just doesn't even look like any quarterback I've ever seen.
But he had a great night last night seventy one
percent completion percentage, passer rating of one thirty one against
the Niners. And he's had a tremendous year. I mean,
he throws a beautiful football. But there here's what I
(11:37):
worry about NFL organizations. It's kind of crazy. Some just
draft certain positions well Steelers wide receivers and linebackers, whatever
it is, it's a certain scout in their organization. Steelers
draft wide receivers and linebackers. Chicago drafts linebackers well, a
Green Bay drafts offensive lineman very very well. An organizations. Similarly,
(12:02):
even good organizations don't draft certain positions well. New England
can't draft a wide receiver to save their life. Chicago
historically in Miami struggle with a quarterback position. And frankly,
Arizona is lousy for whatever reason at drafting offensive linemen.
They just quit doing it about four years ago. They're
bad at it, like Belichick. Now, the problem is you
(12:23):
need offensive linemen, but they started going inside the league
to get offensive lineman. They don't do it well. And
I'm watching last night Kyler Murray has been sacked. Now,
think about this, Think how athletic he is. And I
think his size helps him in terms of scrambling, because
sometimes he kind of gets lost behind those offensive lineman
he can't see him. He'd been sacked twenty nine times.
That's with his mobility, with his size, and the fact
(12:46):
that he's got a coach that's very much about getting
rid of the ball. Quickly the rest of these guys
that lead the NFL and sacks. Flacco's not mobile, Dalton's
not mobile. Jamis Winston has had for most of his
career really bad old lines. I don't know if Arizona
can fix this. And it sounds strange. You would think,
you know, a team drafts every position equally. They don't.
(13:11):
Pittsburgh never misses on wide receivers. Chicago historically they can't
get quarterback right. Maybe it's a lack of this scout,
preponderance of this scout. Maybe there's you know, I've talked
to NFL teams about this. Sometimes you just put your
best region, your best scout becomes your southern region, and
the South gives you great linebackers and defensive linemen, and
(13:34):
you just have a bevy of them, and you draft
it well and you go back to it. I mean,
certainly New England is great drafting defensive backs, struggles with
wide receivers. But I think Kyler Murray's good for the league.
I think he's incredibly accurate. There's a lot of Russell
Wilson here, a lot of Russell Wilson. Both are baseball guys.
(13:55):
Unlike Russell, he was drafted number one. He'll have ultimate
support for the first three to four years, and I
think it's gonna work. But I do worry. Nothing look
around this league. Nothing punctures a promising quarterback like an
old line. Andrew Luck retired, Darnold and Baker Mayfield are
running for their lives. Deshaun Watson had to take a
(14:18):
bust to a game last year. Jared Goffe's first year
with the battle Line was a disaster. Second and third
year they upgrade. Andrew Whitworth. He's pretty good. Derek Carr
is as good as his offensive line. Good old line.
He can be fantastic battle line. He looks like a
CFL quarterback, So I worry about it. I don't know
if Arizona's got the personnel people to solve their offensive
(14:41):
line issue, because they do it lousy and it looks
like they've almost quit trying one more Herd. The Herd
streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week
within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or
on demand whenever you like. On Halloween last night, Kevin
Clark for The Ringer went as a brilliant, funny sports writer.
Oh it wasn't much of a stretch. He's one of
my favorite guests. We don't get him off, and let's
(15:02):
bring him on from the ringer Kevin Clark, NFL Rider,
Wall Street Journal, How are you? I'm good? How are you?
I am great? It's good to see you. You know
you took a lot of heat. I did you come
on this show and you were very critical of Trubisky.
Chicago tends to be extremely vocal. That's why we love
(15:24):
Chicago as a city in a sports city. And last
time you were with us, what did you say about
Deshaun and Trubisky? I said, if Deshaun Watson becomes Michael
Jordan Mitch Drubisky as Sam Bowie. Now at the time
that was not a ludicrous take. Then Trubisky makes the playoffs.
Chicago spent four months reminding me of this take, and
(15:46):
now i'd, you know, like to remind Chicago a yeah. So,
by the way, DeShawn, we said yesterday if he in Halloween,
he would go as a Harry Potter. Deshaun has become
the wizard. He makes losses in THEO wins Chicago. Jake
Glazer came on this week and said, listen that you
just you drafted him this high. You just have to
go with it. I said at the trading deadline, automate
(16:07):
a move for Teddy Bridgewater. But but Glazier's reasoning is,
when you're draft a guy this high, the wheels have
to come off completely. Do you agree with that? Not Jay,
but the reasoning behind it. You just you just play
the string out this year with Trubisky. I think the
disaster that was the end of the game last week
shows that there needs to be a total overhaul of
whatever is happening. Okay, I think if Matt Neggie spent
(16:30):
eight months trying to fix the kicker situation and you
don't trust your offense to get a couple more yards
for the kicker, the problem was never the kicker. The
problem was the offense and the trust you have in them.
I think Matt Neggie's a very very good coach. So
I just I just think that right now, I think
you can. I think you have to move on to
Wisky quite frankly, or at least bring in a really
good veteran who's going to push him next year to
(16:52):
where you have the option to go with another guy.
I don't think Chase Daniels that guy for next next
training camp. You know, it's interesting we are there's a
lot of breakups coming up. You can feel like Cam
and Carolina. We saw Eli Bench, Andy Dalton, Mariota, Jamis Winston.
These are Jamis Winston and the Bucks are in therapy
and counseling. But the breakup's coming. You can sense, like
(17:15):
six seven years and there's a lot of different reasons.
Winston and Eli, too many picks, Dalton, Mariota, lower ceiling,
Cam inconsistent. But when you look at the young so
we have this this movement away from guys who aren't
winning enough into young guys. And I like a lot
of the young guys. But I worried with Baker and
Sam Darnold. I said, are they talented enough to overcome
(17:37):
the dysfunction of the organization. I thought Adam Gase was
the right higher He's to blame, right, Yes, you know,
I saw a staff the other day. Baker Mayfield's quarterback
ring against pressure is thirty eight. Sam Darnold's is thirty nine.
Right above that. Those are two quarterbacks who don't this
year deal well with pressure in their face, and they're
getting a lot of it and they're getting a lot
(17:58):
of it at this point. Yeah, I mean, I think they.
You know, at this point, Adam Gays is a weird
press conference where he was looking around. That's the high
point at this point. You know, there was a stat
of that the Football Perspective put out last week. There
was Adam Gays is now more likely to lose by
double digits in his career than win a game in
his coaching career. I mean, joy And I said this, Kevin.
His optics, yeah, are terrible. He instills no confidence. I
(18:23):
talked to an NFL coach two days ago, not a
head coach and assistant. He said, great play caller, and
he can design his way to completions. But he's not
liked by a lot of people. That's a thing, right, Yeah,
I mean, and you look at him in a press
conference setting, he doesn't look like he instills much joy
or motivation in his troops quite frankly. So, I think
(18:44):
that there's if you're going to be an offensive guru,
you have to be an offensive guru. You can't be
thirty second in scoring. You can't have Sam Doarnold say
he's seeing ghosts, and I understand that was you know,
I think a lot of quarterbacks that said they were
seeing ghost. It just wasn't miked up right. But I
think this the optics of the situation are so bad.
If you are a bad off if you are running
a bad offense, as the offensive guru, what is it
(19:05):
you do exactly? Because Greg Williams has it going on
on defense, okay, and so your one job is to
improve Sam Darnold. And he looks broken right now. He
looks broken. And that's with Levy and Bell, Jamison, Crowder.
They've got some components here. It should be better. They
weren't tanking they I mean, they were not tanking. This
is this is not you know, the Miami Dolphins here.
They should not be this bad, and they are and
(19:27):
that's not I'm gazed. Kevin Clark one of my favorite
NFL guys. He writes for The Ringer formerly the Wall
Street Journal. You move to Baker Mayfield, you know, and
it's well documented. I there's a certain personality trait I like,
I've always used the story when Russell Wilson broke into
the league. I work for another company out east and
his rookie camp I would follow him as a Seahawk
(19:48):
fan growing up. I would follow him on you know,
social media, Twitter, and at four forty five in the morning,
he would be tweeting on my way to look at tape,
and I'm thinking, it's June, and I liked the guy Baker.
I struggle with his temperament, grabbing stuff, throwing balls police
(20:09):
video when he did nothing wrong. And I watched these
interviews and I you know, I could say I told you,
but is it all Baker? Should we blame John Dorsey?
It's easy for me to say I want on this
Baker's thing. He's a mess, but I don't care about that.
What I care about is a They should be good.
They have players. In your opinion, what at the fabric
(20:31):
of it, at the base of it, what's the problem?
It can't all be Baker. I think installing a new
coaching staff is really hard now, especially when you have
a lot of new faces around them. So you would
try to integrate Odell into this offense. Baker Mayfield, you know,
he started the second half of last year, but he's
still a young quarterback. You bring in a guy, Freddie Kitchens,
who was never even a coordinator before last year, and
(20:52):
make him the head coach of one of the most
dynamic rosters on paper in football. That's a lot of pressure,
and especially when you don't get full training camps like
you used to ten fifteen years ago. Try it. I mean,
there's no more two A days. It is really hard
to get up to speed now in the NFL. And
the Cliff Kingsbury looks like he's done exactly and so
what's the problem there. I think Freddie Kittens may not
be up to it. I think I think that's what
(21:13):
I'm looking at right now, is that if you just
look at Baker's regression and like we said, he can't
he's turning the ball over way too much. Listen, there
are zero teams in the last seven years turn the
ball over three straight times until the Browns last week. Okay,
that's not I know the Patriots defense is amazing, but
you can't turn the ball over three straight times, including
one like Baker is basically handing the ball off. Here,
(21:35):
you're making you're making a very good point here. You
don't have two A days, you don't have the camps.
So for a rookie quarterback, at least Cliff Kingsbury had
been a head coach. There are certain jobs that you
have to do it to learn it, like like yeah,
I mean again, you can be a pilot and work
your way up to bigger planes. But like in the NFL,
there is a Grand Canyon gap from coordinator to head coach.
(21:56):
Half fail like it's it's so I think to your point,
Freddie's just he's over his head a little. Yeah. I
think they always thought they were going to start slow
because of that. I didn't know it would be this
slow where the quarterback through half the season looks broken.
I still think that Baker Mayfield is a really good
player who's going to have a good career ahead of him.
But whatever's happening this year, I mean, I think there's
(22:17):
probably something instructive where I know there was a quarterback
injury last year, but we hyped up the forty nine
ers so much last year and they were a year away,
even the defense, they were a year away. And I
think the Browns. Maybe we hype up teams one year
two early in this league instead of one year two late.
Maybe next year is the year we should pinpoint for
the Browns. I don't know. I mean, just the way
that teams explode onto the scene now, it seemed that
(22:38):
the timing might be right for twenty twenty year point.
Freddie Kitchens is a never been a coordinator out of
the gate. He faces a competent Mike Vrabel, Sean McVay,
Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, Vic Fangio. Actually it feels fair.
That's a fair fight. At least. Let's move to Lamar Jackson.
I said last week I missed watching Baltimore play. They're fascinating.
(23:02):
You were early on Lamar Jackson. I always said, I
worried about third down. When you can run for a
first down on third down in high school, pop owner,
high school, college, you will. It's not that he can't
complete passes his mindset. Mike Vick told me this. He
goes third and seven. I ran my whole life. Why
wouldn't I in the NFL? But he's sitting in the
pocket mostly. Do they have a shot this weekend? Well?
(23:26):
I think they do. You know, they're scoring on over
fifty percent of their drives. They're the only team in
the NFL scoring points. The Patriots are giving up points
on seven percent of their drives. This is what you
want if you're a football fan. If there was an
alien coming down and you said, explain football to me.
You would show them this game as far as the
chess match, the strategy, what's going to happen. I mean,
(23:47):
I can't wait to see what Belichick throws at him.
I've always said this to this about Mahomes too. A
young quarterback doesn't become a veteran quarterback in this league
until Bill Belichick's game plan for them, because he's going
to show them things they've never seen in their entire lives.
You know, I remember when Mahomes went into England last year,
he threw that weird exception almost out of the gate
because they were throwing so many confusing looks at him.
I think you're going to see that with Lamar. Lamar's
(24:08):
averaging I think fourteen yards per scramble when he's going
up against man defense. Okay, Bill Belichick's going to know this,
and so he's gonna throw different things. And I think
Seattle will they have an athletic defense if people like
Bobby Wagner. Bobby Wagner couldn't contain Lamar Jackson. I talked
to a couple of coordinators for a story earlier this
season about how to contain Lamar, and they were saying, look,
(24:29):
don't put a linebacker or a safety on him. He's
faster than the cornerbacks. Yes, and so if you're going
to try to use a defense used on somebody else,
you're going to fail. And I think Belichick is the
king of not using defenses he's used for somebody else.
He builds the game plan, he will have something for Lamar.
But Lamar. Remember the Patriots defense probably the best tackling
defense in the NFL. Lamar is probably the hardest guy
(24:50):
to tackle right now in the NFL. This is the
matchup you want if you're a football fan. One of
my favorite NFL riders totally tied in Kevin Clark. The
Ringer used to be at the Wall Street Journal, which
had an underrated sport section. Now at the Ringer. All right,
Kevin Clark, this is gonna sound dumb. I started talking
about it fifteen years ago, when I was just becoming
an American icon. I called it quarterback face. All these
quarterbacks were handsome guys, and I said, it's so weird.
(25:12):
I grew up with Jim Zorn. Everybody had a crush
on him in Seattle, then a Russell Wilson, and then
Dallas has, you know, stallback in the Romo in the
back and the Ache, but Niners have Steve Young Montana Garoppolo.
And I showed my wife at pictures. She's like, oh god,
he looks like a quarterback. And I'm like, it's called
quarterback face. Scouts use it, and it's a third down.
There's an it quality. And I've asked Jimmy Johnson what's
(25:33):
leadership and he goes, I don't know. It's been walked
in the room. And You're like, yeah, he's got it.
He goes, I don't know. And it's Garoppolo's confidence. It's something, right.
I think confidence has something to do with it. I
don't know if if looks does necessarily, but I think
the ability to quarterback is a confidence position. It is
you have to commit, you have to make throws that
(25:54):
you don't feel comfortable making. I mean, if you are
a weak minded quarterback, you will fail very very This
is the Kirk Cousins thing. People said. When Kirk Cousins
said it's all my fault, people said, no, no, no, no, no, no,
don't say that. Quarterbacks don't say that, right, they are
they live Like when Steve Steve Joe Jobs used to say,
a reality distortion bubble. Right, that's what quarterbacks have to
(26:14):
live in. They have to basically fake their way through everything. Okay,
you throw foreign receptions, Fine, we're gonna win on Sunday.
The quarterback is the only potician that has to operate
like that. Everybody else can sort of do their jobs
and stay in their own thing. You become essentially the
de facto mayor of your city. When you're the quarterback
of your football team. You have to be the spokesperson.
You have to be an optimist, and I think that
(26:35):
confidence is Look, I don't want to go. You know,
Moneyball fifteen years ago said, you know, we're not selling
jeans here, So the actual how somebody looks doesn't necessarily
matter as much as how they feel. And I think
maybe that's tied into a little bit of the quarterback.
By the way, how he long Owas jokes you cannot
have two Hall of Fame quarterbacks in the same room.
To your point, He's like, there is a alpha to it,
And I just think he plays with incredible confidence on
(26:57):
third down, which is a money down and a confidence down.
Kyler Murray, this may be crazy. Loved watching him yea,
there are organizations in this league that do not draft
certain positions. Well, Arizona stinks at the offensive line. There's
is terrible. He's been hit. He's been sacked twenty nine
times with his mobility. Am I nuts on? This is
this an unsolvable issue? I've seen organizations that can't draft units, right, Yeah,
(27:22):
it's yes, I mean this is a problem. And when
Kyler was coming into the league, there were scouts and
coaches who told me they hadn't seen anybody better at
avoiding getting hit in the college level. Think Kyler Murray.
I mean, this is a guy. There's a reason he's
under six feet tall and has been able to stay
as healthy as he has had been able to be
as good as he has. It's because he knows how
to take a hit, when to fall down before hit,
(27:44):
when they're went out of bounds. We've seen that he's
around a bounds to a fault two points this season. Yeah,
you know, I just think that what Kyler Murray's been
able to do has been really incredible. And I think
Cliff Kingsbury has made some really cool adjustments playing less
four receiver sets in the season, goes on that sort
of thing. He's coached every week, Cliff Kingsbury, he has
every week Kevin to different game plan, getting better every week. Yeah.
(28:06):
I was in Cincinnati and I saw a gu named
Rodney Anderson who's a running back for both Kyler and Baker,
and I went up to him and I said, you know,
our Baker and Kyler's success, that can a lead to
more short quarterbacks. And he said no, He said, Baker
and Kyler are two of the most special players who've
ever played the game, and they're not replicable. It's not
like they're going to start some trend of small quarterbacks.
(28:27):
They're just going to start the trend of Baker and
Kyler being special. And I know maybe you disagree on
the Baker part, but I mean, I just think their
ability to play in the way a style that nobody
else is playing because of their size in the modern
game and make it work is amazing. And when Kyler
has been able to do this half season has been
really impressive. It has. Finally, I'm shocked by the Raiders
(28:47):
noise drama. Ten years out of the league, hires Mike Mayock,
been out of the league. They're a real team. They've
played a brutally tough schedule. They've been all over the world,
and I like him. This weekend and I think they
have shocked me. They have been shockingly competitive. I watched
them go to Indianapolis and I'm like, well, INDI's good,
(29:08):
Indy's granted home. What do you make of the Raiders
could have won last week too. You know, one of
the one of my best friends, the Raiders fan, and
he's really plugged in. And he said at the beginning
of this, when I was being frond of the Gruden higher,
he say, listen, who launched Sean McVeigh, who launched this
whole offensive revolution fifteen years ago? It was John Gruden.
And I think there's probably something too that John Gruden,
(29:29):
as a personnel's are has hurt himself. As a coach,
he's helping himself. This is why you make that higher,
because he's a good coach. Maybe if Mayok were in
at the beginning and it's somebody that maybe he would
listen to a little bit more than maybe this situation
doesn't get to the point where he's rid himself of
all this talent. But I think that you know, having
three first round picks last year, was it was a positive.
(29:50):
I think he's in a place now where he can build.
It looks like he likes Deret Carr at this point,
which we were touching go on at this point last year.
So I think that this is this is John Gruden
the coach, and we're seeing now he's much better than
John Gruden the organizational leader. By the way, and I'm
sure John has had some influence on draft picks, his
offensive draft picks and his offensive free agent moves. Now
(30:13):
he's overspent for a couple of them, but they're they're
working Kevin the offensive side of the ball. He I
think he does no personnel a little bit. I like
their draft picks. Offensively, Josh Jacobs has been terrify the
ear at this point. Is he a rookie of the
earth at this I mean, who's who's been better? Kyler? Possibly?
I mean that's it. Josh Jacobs has been really good offensively.
(30:36):
I had picked Hardman from Kansas City because I thought
he would just get more targets with Mahomes and all that,
and let's be that. Put that aside. I think it's
Jacobs right now. I think you're right, hey, good stuff.
Kevin Clark, the Ringer read his stuff, terrific stuff. He's
all over the internet and we're out of time. Good
luck to you. I love having you on the show.
You're always welcome. What's going on, everybody, John Middlecoff, that's
(30:58):
me Three and Out Podcast. That's my show. Go subscribe
if you like football. That's all I talk. Coming up
on this show. Jimmy Garoppolo, Kyle Shanahan moved eight no,
and Carson Palmer joins me in retirement, talking about the NFL,
his career, what he sees now, offensive coordinators that he
likes in the league, for over an hour again, John Middlecoff,
(31:19):
Three and Out Podcast, Go subscribe. In the NFL right now,
there are some divisions we feel very strongly about. I
feel very strongly that New England's gonna win their division.
I feel very strongly that San Francisco is going to
win their division. I feel very strongly New Orleans is
going to win their division. I feel very strongly Green
Bay and Minnesota will both make the playoffs. There is
(31:39):
a division in the NFL though, that I think could flip.
And I like Baltimore a lot and Cleveland is a circus.
But if you start looking at what's going to happen here,
Keep your eye on Cleveland. Cleveland now is going to
face in the next eight weeks a series of backup quarterbacks.
(32:03):
This defensive line for Cleveland is the strength of the team.
They're gonna face a backup with Denver, a Josh Allen
less than twenty starts, a backup in Pittsburgh, a backup
in Miami, a backup in Pittsburgh, a backup in Cincinnati,
a rookie and Kyle Allen, young quarterback Lamar and a
rookie with Cincinnati. That defensive line is gonna have a heyday.
(32:24):
Baker doesn't have to be great, and they get Kareem Hunt. Conversely,
and they're two and five right now. Right Conversely, Baltimore,
the schedule gets much tougher, and we know this to
be true. The NFL has decided post Thanksgiving, not in
September and October. I like Baltimore, but if you look
at the next games coming up, they're facing very very
(32:47):
interesting defensive fronts. New England's defense, then Houston, and you know,
just think about this. They go up against Brady and
the Deshaun Watson and Jared Goff and then Jimmy g
Baker beat him the first time, and there's a lot
of defenses in here. I think Baltimore is a little overvalued.
I think Cleveland is a little undervalued. And I think
(33:10):
there's a real possibility here that five and two Baltimore
and two and five Cleveland in a month are tied,
and in eight weeks it comes down to that Baltimore
game and Cleveland game. In Cleveland, I think the division
will come down to that game. I really really do.
(33:30):
It looks crazy today, but most of these divisions I
have a real strong feeling about New England winning. There's
the Saints winning. There's you know, I think Kansas City,
when Mahomes come back, they're going to go in a
nice streak and win. There's but I think this division
could be the flip division where what you see is
not what you're gonna get. And you know, I love
to bang on Cleveland, and you know how much I
(33:52):
like Lamar in Baltimore. But there's a little fool's gold
now with Baltimore and Cleveland is not this bad. They're
just simply not be sure to catch live editions of
the Herd weekdays and Noone Eastern, not Ampacific on Fox
Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio A. Rich
Orenberger was drafted about the New England Patriots. I love
(34:12):
bringing him on our show. He does loose Cannons down
in San Diego. Very popular show. He's on Fox Sports
Radio in the weekend. Former NFL offensive lineman. So here
goes New England into a very big game week. It's
the big game you've been in these weeks. But this
is a little different because of Lamar Jackson, isn't it. Oh,
it's completely different because of Lamar Jackson. I'll start from
(34:33):
the start. Come November, we got the speech every year
about how the season changes. You have the speech about
the preseason, you have the speech about how the regular
season everything ramps up. And then come November, when everybody's
starting to think about their Thanksgiving plans, the NFL football
season ramps up again. And Bill was very, very sensitive
(34:54):
to this, so it didn't matter who the opponent was.
Once you hit November, this is the point in the
season you really have to turn it on. And then
obviously the postseason after that. Lamar Jackson is a problem.
And what I mean that is, I mean, think about
think about the military schools in college it's a problem
(35:14):
when you have to plan for one of these triple
option offenses, you have one week. They're so unique. Yeah,
you can't do this ahead of time. You have other opponents,
those are other potential losses on your schedule before you
reach this triple option offense. So you only have a
week to prepare. And it's so different. And that's what
the Baltimore Ravens have right now with Lamar Jackson. It
(35:36):
is so unique, it is so different from any other
offense you're gonna see on your schedule, and only having
a week to prepare is such a liability for a defense.
And so really what it comes down to is you
have to stop Baltimore at what they do the best
and hope that he doesn't make deep throws, sideline throws,
(35:56):
and leave the rest up to his arm. Yeah, take
mark ingram out and cross your fingers. They got big
tight ends and they hit on some of those. But
I do believe that's kind of the game. Stop mark
and just say listen, if Lamar beats us on the
edge running, there's nothing we can do about it. Because,
by the way, it's very interesting think about this. In
the NFC, most of the good teams have guys who
can run but don't breeze Garoppolo Dak the AFC, you're
(36:20):
gonna have to face either Mahomes who moves, Lamar who moves,
Josh Allen who moves, Gardner Minshaw who moves. All the
quarterbacks run. So this is your first real test. Oh,
this is what it's like, guys. For the rest of
the season, we're gonna have to beat guys like this
because the AFC, outside of Brady rich it's all moving guys. Oh,
I know. And the really funny thing is I do
agree this is a big first test. But there was
(36:45):
a pre exam in the Bills and that was a
close game. You'll remember because Josh Allen, well, I think
he's better suited to be an h back or a
tight end in an offense. He's not as good of
a quarterback and I mean a passer as some of
these other guys you just mentioned. And it's still a
dual threat quarterback. He can still hurt you downfield improvising,
(37:05):
and he's a good enough athlete and big and strong
enough to hold up against the rush and make you pay.
So they had a pre exam, but Lamar Jackson This
is a Ferrari right now. They're going against and he's
got the keys to the kingdom in Baltimore. Let's go
to something that this week, Joy and I were struck
by how many and I've said this about my White
(37:25):
House and my pro teams. Leaks tell me people are
covering their butt that whether you like a president or
a team, no leaks means everybody's in the same page.
When you get leaks politically or leaks in the sports
franchise Clippers, by the way, get no leaks, credit Trust,
Paul Chris, Paul, no leaks acquired, Paul George, no leaks,
(37:47):
got Kawai, no leaks, Lakers. Every fifteen minutes, there's a
leak that means magic, Polinka, House, divided jets, rumors everywhere.
Why doesn't knowing signs? Mohammed Sanu cricket? What's the secret
for Bill? So this is just a rumor, but I
think it makes sense because if you want to find
(38:08):
a rat, you just you just basically make a It's
so simple. You take a sheet of paper and you
write down all of your potential leak's names, and then
you feed each rat not rat, right, but each assistant
or whoever in your organization a little piece of information
and whatever hits the news, you know who's responsible for it.
(38:30):
It's as easy as just making a list. I told
this guy this. I told, you know, Coach A, we're
trading Edelman. I told Coach B, we're trading Brady. I
told Coach C, we're targeting Mohammed Sanu. And guess what
news breaks two days later. You know exactly who to
come to, you know exactly who to snuff out after
the leak comes out. And that was the rumor in
(38:51):
New England. I was, well, that was the rumor. I
don't know. I can't substantiate it. But you can't substantiate
a lot because again, things don't get out of it.
It's the way it works. Let's talk about OBJ. Came
out and supported his quarterback this week. I'm not a
Baker guy. I think he's talented. He's not my personality
prototype to be a quarterback. What did you make of him?
(39:12):
And the baker and the Tony Grossie the reporter and
the going back and forth and what did you make
all that stuff? I didn't like it. You know, look,
I mean it's some fortunate reality of playing quarterback. In
this league, you are going to be held to a
different standard than the rest of the players. And I
know he is who he is, and I know he's
an emotional guy and it's passionate, you know, when it
(39:36):
fits or whatever, he wrote in the follow up tweet.
But the deal is this, I don't want to walk
into surgery with a guy who's losing his mind in
you know, in crisis. I want my surgeon to have
a deft hand. I want the guy who's heading up
the operation to see composed. When these firefighters who are
(39:56):
fighting wildfires head into danger, they're not losing their minds.
They have a plan, they're working their plan, they're staying
on a script. The most composed person wins in crisis.
Right now, the Browns are facing crisis, and he seems erratic.
It's not what I want to see in leadership. And
(40:17):
it's really what's been presented over the course of this
season so far. Yeah, I don't blame him for all
of it, though I do think Freddie Kitchens, I had
an assistant coach in the NFL tell me this week. Situationally,
when you watch him on film, they're just calling plays.
It's not really head coaching. Freddie Kitchens is just calling plays.
They look lost situationally, and if you look at their
(40:39):
penalties that you can make the argument that what the
coach told me is largely what we're seeing is they
got a coach that's bailing water. He's just not ready
to be a head coach. He's a coach. But you
know you've been in this league. Half the coordinators, he
was never a coordinator. Half the coordinators they whip at
this thing. Oh no, no question. I mean it's a
very difficult job to do. Here's Freddie Kitts and a
(41:00):
guy who I like, a guy who have a tremendous
amount of respect for. And he did something at the
podium when he was asked about situational awareness and things
at the end of one of the games earlier this season.
It resulted in a loss, and you could argue there
were moments where the head coaching decisions gave the game
away and he said, I'm gonna make mistakes and I'm
learning on the run, something to that effect I'm paraphrasing
(41:21):
from But you cannot hear that. Go back to the surgeon.
Do you want somebody postop to be telling you about
all their mistakes. I mean, if I'm gonna have a
shoulder surgery, do I want a guy going yeah, I'll
tell you what sort of sort of screwed up In
a couple of spots, we'll see. You need to be certain.
Look a head coach, like a politician. You mentioned a
(41:44):
white house whatever. You want a crafted orator. You want
someone who, even when it's all going wrong, makes you
feel right. And Freddie Kitchens needs to learn that in
a hurry. Two quarterbacks we watched last night. Let's start
with Kyler Murray. That's interesting, right, he throws baseball background,
he throws a beautiful ball. He tell he may tell
(42:06):
the tightest spiral in the league. What do you make
of him? I really like him. I like him a lot.
I like him pre draft. I didn't like some of
the press that he did. It seemed like he was
still making the decision all the way up until the
decision whether or not he wanted to play football. But
it's clear he wants to be out there and he's
dangerous in all the ways you want a quarterback to be.
You know, it's funny we're just talking about Lamar Jackson.
(42:28):
I see a lot of the same traits. Now I
think Kyler Murray throws a better football, Yes he does,
and he's a more accurate passer. But a dual threat
quarterback in this league is a soothing bomb for everything.
It's like the vitamin C of the NFL. It's a
cure all. If you want to get good fast, draft
you up dual threat quarter But Rich I always say
(42:49):
they all work, they just don't last. Mobile quarterbacks all work.
The really good ones RG three just worked for a year, right,
Mike Vick worked for four. Yeah, but the idea they
don't work. Oh no, they do, can't work for a
long time. Then you get beat up. Yes, yeah, okay.
So a dual threat quarterback is leaving his prime at thirty.
(43:10):
A pocket passer is entering his prime at third. So
when Tom Brady, if you look at all of his
Pro bowls, the majority of them are post thirty. Because
you really find out who you are. You mature in offense,
and of course he stayed in the same offense with
only two coordinators Billy O'Brien and Josh McDaniels. During his
tenure there in New England. He was able to mature
(43:32):
and become the player of prominence that we see him today.
A lot of that has been done post thirty. You
could say the same thing about Drew Brees. But a
lot of these mobile quarterbacks they're leaving their prime at thirty. Yeah,
they've gotten dinged, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz is
heading in that direction. We'll see how long it lasts
with Russell Wilson, but some of the best may already
(43:53):
be behind him. Jimmy Garoppolo, I'm just joking all day.
Quarterback face. My wife said that looks like a friends
quarterback guy. But boy, he plays with confidence, doesn't he. Oh,
he certainly does. He certainly does. And I'll tell you
the knock on him right now is too many turnovers
and a lot of people are referring to him as
a game manager, and I'll get caught up in that
(44:13):
and people will think I'm being negative about Jimmy Garoppolo.
I need to see if he's an elite quarterback. But
what I certainly know is he's has elite football intelligence.
He's not going to give away games. He's a winner.
It's a short sample size, but he's a winner. I
really love his accuracy. I love his command of the huddle.
(44:34):
I love how these guys fight for him. I love
when they're down in the red zone. How confident you
feel about the forty nine ers chances of scoring, whether
it's on the ground or through the air. Yeah, no, no,
he plays with John was saying this John Goolan or
pre meeting. He plays cocky on third down. Yes, He's like,
now it's my team, all right. And it's like Derek
Jeter used to always say, baseball is long going to slumps.
(44:55):
I don't want a lot of negative people around me.
I don't want to be I don't want like I
want to be OPTI missed it going to the place.
I don't want negative thoughts. A Rod was an overthinker. Sure,
I'm gonna have a therapist. I want to talk. Jeter's like,
I want to hit the ball hard. Let's go have
a stake, you know. I mean it's like there is
something to be said about confidence in big moments. Jimmy
g plays confident football again. You know you talked about
composure earlier and turning to the calm death hand in
(45:18):
the room when crisis comes. I mean, short sample size
with Baker Mayfield as well, who do you want on
third and long, Garoppolo or Mayfield? Right now, who do
you want in the red zone when you absolutely have
to have at Garoppolo or Mayfield. You may argue that
Mayfield may have had more success in situations. I don't
have the stats in front of me, but I look
at Garoppolo and I see a steady, deft hand, somebody
(45:40):
who seems like he's got the leadership I need in crisis.
And when you have that confidence and then you back
it up with good play and a winning record like
they have in the San Francisco right now, that is
just It bodes so well for their future. And Kyle Shanahan,
he is coaching his tail off right now. Yeah, finally,
I was totally on this. Raiders are a fun watch.
(46:03):
Start looking at their schedule, it's the toughest in the league.
They had to go to London, Bears, at Indye, Ksey,
at green Bay, at Houston. Outside of green Bay, They're
in all these games. This this this could have just
unraveled teams. They're buying into Gruden Offensively, they got put,
They've got they've got it. They've got a group of guys.
I think they're well coached. I think they built this
(46:26):
team right. They drafted offensive lineman, they paid for offensive lyman.
They have a quarterback who, if you surround him with
more talent on the edges, could end up being a
lead in this league. You have a potential All Pro player.
And Josh Jacobs, good job on that Mac trade making
that number one pick, or it should say first round pick.
He's been going out. He's been great. And by the
way that Darren Waller they got it tied in from Baltimore.
(46:49):
Does he leave the NFL in receptions he did a
couple of weeks ago. He's been a monster. I mean,
and that's what good offenses do with maybe marginal players
or players that sort of are unknown. They turned them
into stars. It happens in New England all the time.
George Kittle with the forty nine Ers in a great
offense is a star. Cooper Cup who knows what he
would be if he was playing for the Bengals, But
(47:09):
in this Rams offense, I believe he's a star. So yeah,
it's building in the right direction. They've had some really
tough losses handed to them. If they improve this defense,
look out the Raiders when they head to Vegas. They
may have a squad
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Friday.
(00:25):
We are absolutely loaded. This is the Herd live in
La wherever you may be, however you may be listening iHeartRadio,
Fox Sports Radio and FS one. One hour from now
Blazing five. Love my picks, Love Love Love my Blazing
five picks this week, some fascinating games. I'm going with
(00:47):
some favorites this week. Last week I went with dogs
and they were all dogs. Joey Taylor is joining me. Yeah,
the World Series. Two nights ago, we had an NFL
game that we didn't know about but ended up being
wildly entertaining. It's a great game. Actually, what's you pretty
much called? I said it would be closer than people think.
It's not to get caught up in that h not
the hype, but I think I think it delivered. It
(01:09):
was very fine. San Francisco had a bunch of dominating wins.
It's the NFL, go on the road, come back to Earth.
Let me start with this. I started, Um, I've been
doing syndicated radio now for about fifteen years. I was
a local guy, right, and about fourteen fifteen, sixteen years ago,
I started talking about something on the air and nobody'd
(01:30):
ever talked about it, and some people said it was
ridiculous and absurd, and people wrote articles about it, and
I said, you ever notice that there's a lot of
quarterbacks in the history of football. A lot of the
best quarterbacks are really handsome, Like would walk into a
room full of men and you'd be like, Oh, that's
a guy's really handsome. You know, there's you know, obviously
there's obvious some Brett five guys out there, but like,
(01:50):
there's quarterback position more than any other position. And I
started getting calls and back then emails from NFL guys saying, Hey,
I like your show. You talk a lot of football,
and there's something we call quarterback face, and it is
a real thing. We're looking for confidence. Yes, an arm Yes,
(02:12):
you started for three years in college. Yes, all the
requisite skills. NFL scouts call it quarterback face, and Jimmy
G has the league's best quarterback face. My wife doesn't
watch a lot of sports. She goes, boys, San Francisco's good,
who's their quarterback? And I showed her a picture of
Jimmy G on my phone. She goes, oh my god,
(02:32):
Oh my lord, he looks like a quarterback. And I said, yes,
it's called quarterback face and it matters. And he reminds
me of a young Tom Brady who we said, well,
he's got a coach. Brady's got balot check and a
defense in a running game. But there was an it
quality to Tom Brady and that it, to me, was
Oah's confidence. And I know it sounds absurd, but he
(02:55):
was so great on third down last night, and third
down in the NFL for a quarterback is not only
the money down, it's the confidence down. Garoppolo is great
on third down. He plays cocky, he goes for it.
And I know it sounds absurd, but I started talking
about this years ago. And if you look like Jimmy
(03:15):
G and walked into rooms from fifteen years old until
twenty eight years old, I don't even have to ask Joy,
I can figure it out, you'd feel pretty darn good
about yourself. You'd turn heads and look at baseball, Look
how many great players going to hitting slumps. They don't
forget how to hit, they lose their confidence. Look how
(03:36):
many great golfers get what they call the yips. They
don't forget how to chip and put, they lose their confidence.
Derek Jeter used to o say, I don't want a
lot of things negatively swimming in my head during a
baseball season. I want to go to the plate and
feel good about the game and feel good about myself.
(03:57):
It's easy to feel good about yourself when you look
like Jimmy And last night on third down, I'm watching
him and I'm like, God, he plays. I mean, the
guy's only started like eighteen games. He plays? Was so
much confidence on third down? Eighty six percent completion percentage,
hundred and fifty three paths are rating. And Kyle Shanahan
(04:18):
talked about his third down after the game, and that's
usually where quarterbacks are in their money. I mean, you
can do a lot of things. I'm first and second down,
and you know you can mix and run or pass
and kind of even out the game. But on third
down that pass rush is coming. They always have their
best coverage as and Blitz called and I mean, you
need a good guy back there. He was on a
night throwing. He got to the right spots and when
it wasn't there, he made plays with his legs. You know,
(04:40):
it's funny about this topic, Dolan, You're really silly and
this is but when the scout started calling me and
saying no, it's a real thing. You go back to
the Dallas Cowboys. If you look at their franchise quarterbacks,
it's you know, Aikman and stop back and Dak and
this square John and the Tony Romo. It's like. And
then the Niners all time quarterbacks Joe Montana, Steve Young, Garoppolo,
(05:01):
Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady and I grew up in Seattle.
All the girls love Jim Zorn. And then it's Russell Wilson.
There's a confidence thing when you're a handsome guy. It's
called quarterback face. You walk into a room, high school, college,
you walk in and guys are like, that's the guy
on the recess on the playground in seventh grade who
(05:23):
gets the ball, the popular boy who's popular on the playground.
The girls think he's cute, the guys think he's cool.
It's called quarterback face. And I told my wife last night,
and she's got her initial reaction was, oh, my god,
he looks like a quarterback. And I'm like, it's funny
how that works. You think it's nuts? Now, you know,
I'm not saying I'm not saying it's it's always works,
(05:47):
and I'm not saying if you don't have perfect facial symmetry,
you can't be great. I don't need to mention names,
but it is funny far Vind Rodgers into Montana and
the Brady and the Russell Wells, and I watched Roppolo
last night. He plays with so much confidence for a
guy that hadn't started very much, and much like Brady.
When Brady came into the NFL, all we talked about
(06:08):
was his coach just like Kyle Shannon's defense, just like
the Niners. And well, I mean, they run the ball
at will, just like the Niners. And it's like, no,
there's an it quality. And by the way, you gotta
have the you know, by and large, you want to
be about six two in the NFL exceptions, obviously, you
want to have the requisite mobility arm. Obviously, you want
(06:29):
to be a two to three year starter in college. Obviously,
I'm not saying it's the number one box to check
check tech tech tech check. But there is a box
for quarterbacks, the IT box, the confidence box. And I
asked Jimmy Johnson what once? I said, what's leadership? And
Jimmy Johnson, one of the great coaches ever, goes, I
don't really know what it is. Yeah, I g it's
a lot of confidence among other guys. I can't really
(06:52):
explain it, but you know, do you have the confidence?
You know, if you if you succeeded at something a
lot in life. And I'm like, and Jimmy Johns and
I said, with Troy ache when he's like he just
had the Troy just was a it it it it it,
there's an it And I think the it part of
(07:12):
it is quarterback face. That dude, he plays confident. I
would too. I mean that razorstubble that's after shaving. I
mean it's observed. All right, let me shift to this.
There is a player who's very talented. He has been
in and out of rehab, struggled personal struggles. Josh Gordon
(07:34):
very talented New England basically letting him go. And so
now they waited a while, he'll go what they call
like a waiver wire list, meaning you know, bad teams
get the first chance at Josh Gordon. So there's a
team in the NFL that may not get a shot
at him, but there's a team in the NFL. I
would absolutely go get him. Hey, he's imperfect, he's head
(07:58):
of relapses. There's a story are in New England his
work ethic tailed off. If I'm the New Orleans Saints,
you have to go get Josh Gordon because I got
news for you. If you're the Saints, the Dallas Cowboys
give you trouble defensively because you have no vertical passing threat.
You have none, and you have no mobility at quarterback.
(08:20):
So the New Orleans Saints are not getting past San
Francisco's defense. Because to beat San Francisco's defense, there's only
two ways to do it. Arizona showed it last night.
You gotta beat him over the top, and you have
to have a quarterback that's mobile. So Green Bay could
beat green Bay could beat San Francisco. Aaron Rodgers can
move and they can beat you over the top. New
(08:43):
Orleans cannot beat San Francisco. Dallas has shown you, Dallas
last two times they play, the Saints beat us over
the top. We're gonna go into the box, put a
pass rush on Drew Brees, who's not very mobile, and
stop Alvin Kamara. Saints camp score. Now, the Saints have
a great quarterback, great defense, and a great coach. And
I'm not saying San Francisco would blow him out, but
(09:05):
the Saints culture, like New England's, can certainly handle a
player who's had some personal issues. Josh has don't know
him very talented, but you know he's a guy that
struggles with some things that football coaches don't love. But
if you look at New England, what was the hole
of their team? Receiver? They went out and got one
of the trading deadline. San Francisco, what was the hole
(09:26):
in their game? A veteran receiver Emmanuel Sanders. They went
and got one. What is the hole in New Orleans game?
No vertical passing threat. Michael Thomas averages one hundred and
nine yards a game. Their second best receiver, Ted Gin
averages less than forty. They don't have a number two
receiver and they don't have any deep threat, nor do
they have a quarterback who's mobile. You're not getting through
(09:48):
San Francisco without one of those two. You gotta beat
him over the top or you gotta beat him with
your legs at quarterback, and Kyler Marie could do both,
especially the latter. He can move by time outrun their
defensive ends. New Orleans. This is absolutely worth the risk.
You have the culture to withstand it, and he gives
(10:09):
you ed the mension you desperately neat. Don't kid yourself.
I mean you know right now in the NFC, I
like a lot of teams in the NFC. Three of
them look different. San Francisco, Green Band, New Orleans, they
all look different. New Orleans is going to have to
face either both or one of those two. And if
you face San Francisco with Breeze, his lack of mobility
(10:31):
and no deep threat, you're not moving the football. You
are not moving the football. I think Josh Gordon to
the Saints makes a ton of sense. Be sure to
catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern
a Empacific. So I'm watching Kyler Murray last night. He's
having a great year. By the way. He's fun as
hell to watch. He's having a terrific year. You know,
the Russell Wilson comp I always said that this is
(10:54):
the closest to Russell Wilson, and they're both baseball players.
He throws a beautiful ball, tight spiral, you know I
always say about Trubisky, his ball dies. Kider's ball just elevates.
He throws a much better ball than the other young quarterbacks.
I think he's more accurate. I like his throwing motion
better than Sam Arnold. I think I like him athletically
more than Baker Mayfield. I think he throws a better
ball than Lamar Jackson. I think he throws a much
(11:15):
better ball than Mitch Trubisky. He's small, and you know,
it's hard for me to get over that because he
just doesn't even look like any quarterback I've ever seen.
But he had a great night last night seventy one
percent completion percentage, passer rating of one thirty one against
the Niners. And he's had a tremendous year. I mean,
he throws a beautiful football. But there here's what I
(11:37):
worry about NFL organizations. It's kind of crazy. Some just
draft certain positions well Steelers wide receivers and linebackers, whatever
it is, it's a certain scout in their organization. Steelers
draft wide receivers and linebackers. Chicago drafts linebackers well, a
Green Bay drafts offensive lineman very very well. An organizations. Similarly,
(12:02):
even good organizations don't draft certain positions well. New England
can't draft a wide receiver to save their life. Chicago
historically in Miami struggle with a quarterback position. And frankly,
Arizona is lousy for whatever reason at drafting offensive linemen.
They just quit doing it about four years ago. They're
bad at it, like Belichick. Now, the problem is you
(12:23):
need offensive linemen, but they started going inside the league
to get offensive lineman. They don't do it well. And
I'm watching last night Kyler Murray has been sacked. Now,
think about this, Think how athletic he is. And I
think his size helps him in terms of scrambling, because
sometimes he kind of gets lost behind those offensive lineman
he can't see him. He'd been sacked twenty nine times.
That's with his mobility, with his size, and the fact
(12:46):
that he's got a coach that's very much about getting
rid of the ball. Quickly the rest of these guys
that lead the NFL and sacks. Flacco's not mobile, Dalton's
not mobile. Jamis Winston has had for most of his
career really bad old lines. I don't know if Arizona
can fix this. And it sounds strange. You would think,
you know, a team drafts every position equally. They don't.
(13:11):
Pittsburgh never misses on wide receivers. Chicago historically they can't
get quarterback right. Maybe it's a lack of this scout,
preponderance of this scout. Maybe there's you know, I've talked
to NFL teams about this. Sometimes you just put your
best region, your best scout becomes your southern region, and
the South gives you great linebackers and defensive linemen, and
(13:34):
you just have a bevy of them, and you draft
it well and you go back to it. I mean,
certainly New England is great drafting defensive backs, struggles with
wide receivers. But I think Kyler Murray's good for the league.
I think he's incredibly accurate. There's a lot of Russell
Wilson here, a lot of Russell Wilson. Both are baseball guys.
(13:55):
Unlike Russell, he was drafted number one. He'll have ultimate
support for the first three to four years, and I
think it's gonna work. But I do worry. Nothing look
around this league. Nothing punctures a promising quarterback like an
old line. Andrew Luck retired, Darnold and Baker Mayfield are
running for their lives. Deshaun Watson had to take a
(14:18):
bust to a game last year. Jared Goffe's first year
with the battle Line was a disaster. Second and third
year they upgrade. Andrew Whitworth. He's pretty good. Derek Carr
is as good as his offensive line. Good old line.
He can be fantastic battle line. He looks like a
CFL quarterback, So I worry about it. I don't know
if Arizona's got the personnel people to solve their offensive
(14:41):
line issue, because they do it lousy and it looks
like they've almost quit trying one more Herd. The Herd
streams twenty four hours a day, seven days a week
within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen live or
on demand whenever you like. On Halloween last night, Kevin
Clark for The Ringer went as a brilliant, funny sports writer.
Oh it wasn't much of a stretch. He's one of
my favorite guests. We don't get him off, and let's
(15:02):
bring him on from the ringer Kevin Clark, NFL Rider,
Wall Street Journal, How are you? I'm good? How are you?
I am great? It's good to see you. You know
you took a lot of heat. I did you come
on this show and you were very critical of Trubisky.
Chicago tends to be extremely vocal. That's why we love
(15:24):
Chicago as a city in a sports city. And last
time you were with us, what did you say about
Deshaun and Trubisky? I said, if Deshaun Watson becomes Michael
Jordan Mitch Drubisky as Sam Bowie. Now at the time
that was not a ludicrous take. Then Trubisky makes the playoffs.
Chicago spent four months reminding me of this take, and
(15:46):
now i'd, you know, like to remind Chicago a yeah. So,
by the way, DeShawn, we said yesterday if he in Halloween,
he would go as a Harry Potter. Deshaun has become
the wizard. He makes losses in THEO wins Chicago. Jake
Glazer came on this week and said, listen that you
just you drafted him this high. You just have to
go with it. I said at the trading deadline, automate
(16:07):
a move for Teddy Bridgewater. But but Glazier's reasoning is,
when you're draft a guy this high, the wheels have
to come off completely. Do you agree with that? Not Jay,
but the reasoning behind it. You just you just play
the string out this year with Trubisky. I think the
disaster that was the end of the game last week
shows that there needs to be a total overhaul of
whatever is happening. Okay, I think if Matt Neggie spent
(16:30):
eight months trying to fix the kicker situation and you
don't trust your offense to get a couple more yards
for the kicker, the problem was never the kicker. The
problem was the offense and the trust you have in them.
I think Matt Neggie's a very very good coach. So
I just I just think that right now, I think
you can. I think you have to move on to
Wisky quite frankly, or at least bring in a really
good veteran who's going to push him next year to
(16:52):
where you have the option to go with another guy.
I don't think Chase Daniels that guy for next next
training camp. You know, it's interesting we are there's a
lot of breakups coming up. You can feel like Cam
and Carolina. We saw Eli Bench, Andy Dalton, Mariota, Jamis Winston.
These are Jamis Winston and the Bucks are in therapy
and counseling. But the breakup's coming. You can sense, like
(17:15):
six seven years and there's a lot of different reasons.
Winston and Eli, too many picks, Dalton, Mariota, lower ceiling,
Cam inconsistent. But when you look at the young so
we have this this movement away from guys who aren't
winning enough into young guys. And I like a lot
of the young guys. But I worried with Baker and
Sam Darnold. I said, are they talented enough to overcome
(17:37):
the dysfunction of the organization. I thought Adam Gase was
the right higher He's to blame, right, Yes, you know,
I saw a staff the other day. Baker Mayfield's quarterback
ring against pressure is thirty eight. Sam Darnold's is thirty nine.
Right above that. Those are two quarterbacks who don't this
year deal well with pressure in their face, and they're
getting a lot of it and they're getting a lot
(17:58):
of it at this point. Yeah, I mean, I think they.
You know, at this point, Adam Gays is a weird
press conference where he was looking around. That's the high
point at this point. You know, there was a stat
of that the Football Perspective put out last week. There
was Adam Gays is now more likely to lose by
double digits in his career than win a game in
his coaching career. I mean, joy And I said this, Kevin.
His optics, yeah, are terrible. He instills no confidence. I
(18:23):
talked to an NFL coach two days ago, not a
head coach and assistant. He said, great play caller, and
he can design his way to completions. But he's not
liked by a lot of people. That's a thing, right, Yeah,
I mean, and you look at him in a press
conference setting, he doesn't look like he instills much joy
or motivation in his troops quite frankly. So, I think
(18:44):
that there's if you're going to be an offensive guru,
you have to be an offensive guru. You can't be
thirty second in scoring. You can't have Sam Doarnold say
he's seeing ghosts, and I understand that was you know,
I think a lot of quarterbacks that said they were
seeing ghost. It just wasn't miked up right. But I
think this the optics of the situation are so bad.
If you are a bad off if you are running
a bad offense, as the offensive guru, what is it
(19:05):
you do exactly? Because Greg Williams has it going on
on defense, okay, and so your one job is to
improve Sam Darnold. And he looks broken right now. He
looks broken. And that's with Levy and Bell, Jamison, Crowder.
They've got some components here. It should be better. They
weren't tanking they I mean, they were not tanking. This
is this is not you know, the Miami Dolphins here.
They should not be this bad, and they are and
(19:27):
that's not I'm gazed. Kevin Clark one of my favorite
NFL guys. He writes for The Ringer formerly the Wall
Street Journal. You move to Baker Mayfield, you know, and
it's well documented. I there's a certain personality trait I like,
I've always used the story when Russell Wilson broke into
the league. I work for another company out east and
his rookie camp I would follow him as a Seahawk
(19:48):
fan growing up. I would follow him on you know,
social media, Twitter, and at four forty five in the morning,
he would be tweeting on my way to look at tape,
and I'm thinking, it's June, and I liked the guy Baker.
I struggle with his temperament, grabbing stuff, throwing balls police
(20:09):
video when he did nothing wrong. And I watched these
interviews and I you know, I could say I told you,
but is it all Baker? Should we blame John Dorsey?
It's easy for me to say I want on this
Baker's thing. He's a mess, but I don't care about that.
What I care about is a They should be good.
They have players. In your opinion, what at the fabric
(20:31):
of it, at the base of it, what's the problem?
It can't all be Baker. I think installing a new
coaching staff is really hard now, especially when you have
a lot of new faces around them. So you would
try to integrate Odell into this offense. Baker Mayfield, you know,
he started the second half of last year, but he's
still a young quarterback. You bring in a guy, Freddie Kitchens,
who was never even a coordinator before last year, and
(20:52):
make him the head coach of one of the most
dynamic rosters on paper in football. That's a lot of pressure,
and especially when you don't get full training camps like
you used to ten fifteen years ago. Try it. I mean,
there's no more two A days. It is really hard
to get up to speed now in the NFL. And
the Cliff Kingsbury looks like he's done exactly and so
what's the problem there. I think Freddie Kittens may not
be up to it. I think I think that's what
(21:13):
I'm looking at right now, is that if you just
look at Baker's regression and like we said, he can't
he's turning the ball over way too much. Listen, there
are zero teams in the last seven years turn the
ball over three straight times until the Browns last week. Okay,
that's not I know the Patriots defense is amazing, but
you can't turn the ball over three straight times, including
one like Baker is basically handing the ball off. Here,
(21:35):
you're making you're making a very good point here. You
don't have two A days, you don't have the camps.
So for a rookie quarterback, at least Cliff Kingsbury had
been a head coach. There are certain jobs that you
have to do it to learn it, like like yeah,
I mean again, you can be a pilot and work
your way up to bigger planes. But like in the NFL,
there is a Grand Canyon gap from coordinator to head coach.
(21:56):
Half fail like it's it's so I think to your point,
Freddie's just he's over his head a little. Yeah. I
think they always thought they were going to start slow
because of that. I didn't know it would be this
slow where the quarterback through half the season looks broken.
I still think that Baker Mayfield is a really good
player who's going to have a good career ahead of him.
But whatever's happening this year, I mean, I think there's
(22:17):
probably something instructive where I know there was a quarterback
injury last year, but we hyped up the forty nine
ers so much last year and they were a year away,
even the defense, they were a year away. And I
think the Browns. Maybe we hype up teams one year
two early in this league instead of one year two late.
Maybe next year is the year we should pinpoint for
the Browns. I don't know. I mean, just the way
that teams explode onto the scene now, it seemed that
(22:38):
the timing might be right for twenty twenty year point.
Freddie Kitchens is a never been a coordinator out of
the gate. He faces a competent Mike Vrabel, Sean McVay,
Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, Vic Fangio. Actually it feels fair.
That's a fair fight. At least. Let's move to Lamar Jackson.
I said last week I missed watching Baltimore play. They're fascinating.
(23:02):
You were early on Lamar Jackson. I always said, I
worried about third down. When you can run for a
first down on third down in high school, pop owner,
high school, college, you will. It's not that he can't
complete passes his mindset. Mike Vick told me this. He
goes third and seven. I ran my whole life. Why
wouldn't I in the NFL? But he's sitting in the
pocket mostly. Do they have a shot this weekend? Well?
(23:26):
I think they do. You know, they're scoring on over
fifty percent of their drives. They're the only team in
the NFL scoring points. The Patriots are giving up points
on seven percent of their drives. This is what you
want if you're a football fan. If there was an
alien coming down and you said, explain football to me.
You would show them this game as far as the
chess match, the strategy, what's going to happen. I mean,
(23:47):
I can't wait to see what Belichick throws at him.
I've always said this to this about Mahomes too. A
young quarterback doesn't become a veteran quarterback in this league
until Bill Belichick's game plan for them, because he's going
to show them things they've never seen in their entire lives.
You know, I remember when Mahomes went into England last year,
he threw that weird exception almost out of the gate
because they were throwing so many confusing looks at him.
I think you're going to see that with Lamar. Lamar's
(24:08):
averaging I think fourteen yards per scramble when he's going
up against man defense. Okay, Bill Belichick's going to know this,
and so he's gonna throw different things. And I think
Seattle will they have an athletic defense if people like
Bobby Wagner. Bobby Wagner couldn't contain Lamar Jackson. I talked
to a couple of coordinators for a story earlier this
season about how to contain Lamar, and they were saying, look,
(24:29):
don't put a linebacker or a safety on him. He's
faster than the cornerbacks. Yes, and so if you're going
to try to use a defense used on somebody else,
you're going to fail. And I think Belichick is the
king of not using defenses he's used for somebody else.
He builds the game plan, he will have something for Lamar.
But Lamar. Remember the Patriots defense probably the best tackling
defense in the NFL. Lamar is probably the hardest guy
(24:50):
to tackle right now in the NFL. This is the
matchup you want if you're a football fan. One of
my favorite NFL riders totally tied in Kevin Clark. The
Ringer used to be at the Wall Street Journal, which
had an underrated sport section. Now at the Ringer. All right,
Kevin Clark, this is gonna sound dumb. I started talking
about it fifteen years ago, when I was just becoming
an American icon. I called it quarterback face. All these
quarterbacks were handsome guys, and I said, it's so weird.
(25:12):
I grew up with Jim Zorn. Everybody had a crush
on him in Seattle, then a Russell Wilson, and then
Dallas has, you know, stallback in the Romo in the
back and the Ache, but Niners have Steve Young Montana Garoppolo.
And I showed my wife at pictures. She's like, oh god,
he looks like a quarterback. And I'm like, it's called
quarterback face. Scouts use it, and it's a third down.
There's an it quality. And I've asked Jimmy Johnson what's
(25:33):
leadership and he goes, I don't know. It's been walked
in the room. And You're like, yeah, he's got it.
He goes, I don't know. And it's Garoppolo's confidence. It's something, right.
I think confidence has something to do with it. I
don't know if if looks does necessarily, but I think
the ability to quarterback is a confidence position. It is
you have to commit, you have to make throws that
(25:54):
you don't feel comfortable making. I mean, if you are
a weak minded quarterback, you will fail very very This
is the Kirk Cousins thing. People said. When Kirk Cousins
said it's all my fault, people said, no, no, no, no, no, no,
don't say that. Quarterbacks don't say that, right, they are
they live Like when Steve Steve Joe Jobs used to say,
a reality distortion bubble. Right, that's what quarterbacks have to
(26:14):
live in. They have to basically fake their way through everything. Okay,
you throw foreign receptions, Fine, we're gonna win on Sunday.
The quarterback is the only potician that has to operate
like that. Everybody else can sort of do their jobs
and stay in their own thing. You become essentially the
de facto mayor of your city. When you're the quarterback
of your football team. You have to be the spokesperson.
You have to be an optimist, and I think that
(26:35):
confidence is Look, I don't want to go. You know,
Moneyball fifteen years ago said, you know, we're not selling
jeans here, So the actual how somebody looks doesn't necessarily
matter as much as how they feel. And I think
maybe that's tied into a little bit of the quarterback.
By the way, how he long Owas jokes you cannot
have two Hall of Fame quarterbacks in the same room.
To your point, He's like, there is a alpha to it,
And I just think he plays with incredible confidence on
(26:57):
third down, which is a money down and a confidence down.
Kyler Murray, this may be crazy. Loved watching him yea,
there are organizations in this league that do not draft
certain positions. Well, Arizona stinks at the offensive line. There's
is terrible. He's been hit. He's been sacked twenty nine
times with his mobility. Am I nuts on? This is
this an unsolvable issue? I've seen organizations that can't draft units, right, Yeah,
(27:22):
it's yes, I mean this is a problem. And when
Kyler was coming into the league, there were scouts and
coaches who told me they hadn't seen anybody better at
avoiding getting hit in the college level. Think Kyler Murray.
I mean, this is a guy. There's a reason he's
under six feet tall and has been able to stay
as healthy as he has had been able to be
as good as he has. It's because he knows how
to take a hit, when to fall down before hit,
(27:44):
when they're went out of bounds. We've seen that he's
around a bounds to a fault two points this season. Yeah,
you know, I just think that what Kyler Murray's been
able to do has been really incredible. And I think
Cliff Kingsbury has made some really cool adjustments playing less
four receiver sets in the season, goes on that sort
of thing. He's coached every week, Cliff Kingsbury, he has
every week Kevin to different game plan, getting better every week. Yeah.
(28:06):
I was in Cincinnati and I saw a gu named
Rodney Anderson who's a running back for both Kyler and Baker,
and I went up to him and I said, you know,
our Baker and Kyler's success, that can a lead to
more short quarterbacks. And he said no, He said, Baker
and Kyler are two of the most special players who've
ever played the game, and they're not replicable. It's not
like they're going to start some trend of small quarterbacks.
(28:27):
They're just going to start the trend of Baker and
Kyler being special. And I know maybe you disagree on
the Baker part, but I mean, I just think their
ability to play in the way a style that nobody
else is playing because of their size in the modern
game and make it work is amazing. And when Kyler
has been able to do this half season has been
really impressive. It has. Finally, I'm shocked by the Raiders
(28:47):
noise drama. Ten years out of the league, hires Mike Mayock,
been out of the league. They're a real team. They've
played a brutally tough schedule. They've been all over the world,
and I like him. This weekend and I think they
have shocked me. They have been shockingly competitive. I watched
them go to Indianapolis and I'm like, well, INDI's good,
(29:08):
Indy's granted home. What do you make of the Raiders
could have won last week too. You know, one of
the one of my best friends, the Raiders fan, and
he's really plugged in. And he said at the beginning
of this, when I was being frond of the Gruden higher,
he say, listen, who launched Sean McVeigh, who launched this
whole offensive revolution fifteen years ago? It was John Gruden.
And I think there's probably something too that John Gruden,
(29:29):
as a personnel's are has hurt himself. As a coach,
he's helping himself. This is why you make that higher,
because he's a good coach. Maybe if Mayok were in
at the beginning and it's somebody that maybe he would
listen to a little bit more than maybe this situation
doesn't get to the point where he's rid himself of
all this talent. But I think that you know, having
three first round picks last year, was it was a positive.
(29:50):
I think he's in a place now where he can build.
It looks like he likes Deret Carr at this point,
which we were touching go on at this point last year.
So I think that this is this is John Gruden
the coach, and we're seeing now he's much better than
John Gruden the organizational leader. By the way, and I'm
sure John has had some influence on draft picks, his
offensive draft picks and his offensive free agent moves. Now
(30:13):
he's overspent for a couple of them, but they're they're
working Kevin the offensive side of the ball. He I
think he does no personnel a little bit. I like
their draft picks. Offensively, Josh Jacobs has been terrify the
ear at this point. Is he a rookie of the
earth at this I mean, who's who's been better? Kyler? Possibly?
I mean that's it. Josh Jacobs has been really good offensively.
(30:36):
I had picked Hardman from Kansas City because I thought
he would just get more targets with Mahomes and all that,
and let's be that. Put that aside. I think it's
Jacobs right now. I think you're right, hey, good stuff.
Kevin Clark, the Ringer read his stuff, terrific stuff. He's
all over the internet and we're out of time. Good
luck to you. I love having you on the show.
You're always welcome. What's going on, everybody, John Middlecoff, that's
(30:58):
me Three and Out Podcast. That's my show. Go subscribe
if you like football. That's all I talk. Coming up
on this show. Jimmy Garoppolo, Kyle Shanahan moved eight no,
and Carson Palmer joins me in retirement, talking about the NFL,
his career, what he sees now, offensive coordinators that he
likes in the league, for over an hour again, John Middlecoff,
(31:19):
Three and Out Podcast, Go subscribe. In the NFL right now,
there are some divisions we feel very strongly about. I
feel very strongly that New England's gonna win their division.
I feel very strongly that San Francisco is going to
win their division. I feel very strongly New Orleans is
going to win their division. I feel very strongly Green
Bay and Minnesota will both make the playoffs. There is
(31:39):
a division in the NFL though, that I think could flip.
And I like Baltimore a lot and Cleveland is a circus.
But if you start looking at what's going to happen here,
Keep your eye on Cleveland. Cleveland now is going to
face in the next eight weeks a series of backup quarterbacks.
(32:03):
This defensive line for Cleveland is the strength of the team.
They're gonna face a backup with Denver, a Josh Allen
less than twenty starts, a backup in Pittsburgh, a backup
in Miami, a backup in Pittsburgh, a backup in Cincinnati,
a rookie and Kyle Allen, young quarterback Lamar and a
rookie with Cincinnati. That defensive line is gonna have a heyday.
(32:24):
Baker doesn't have to be great, and they get Kareem Hunt. Conversely,
and they're two and five right now. Right Conversely, Baltimore,
the schedule gets much tougher, and we know this to
be true. The NFL has decided post Thanksgiving, not in
September and October. I like Baltimore, but if you look
at the next games coming up, they're facing very very
(32:47):
interesting defensive fronts. New England's defense, then Houston, and you know,
just think about this. They go up against Brady and
the Deshaun Watson and Jared Goff and then Jimmy g
Baker beat him the first time, and there's a lot
of defenses in here. I think Baltimore is a little overvalued.
I think Cleveland is a little undervalued. And I think
(33:10):
there's a real possibility here that five and two Baltimore
and two and five Cleveland in a month are tied,
and in eight weeks it comes down to that Baltimore
game and Cleveland game. In Cleveland, I think the division
will come down to that game. I really really do.
(33:30):
It looks crazy today, but most of these divisions I
have a real strong feeling about New England winning. There's
the Saints winning. There's you know, I think Kansas City,
when Mahomes come back, they're going to go in a
nice streak and win. There's but I think this division
could be the flip division where what you see is
not what you're gonna get. And you know, I love
to bang on Cleveland, and you know how much I
(33:52):
like Lamar in Baltimore. But there's a little fool's gold
now with Baltimore and Cleveland is not this bad. They're
just simply not be sure to catch live editions of
the Herd weekdays and Noone Eastern, not Ampacific on Fox
Sports Radio FS one and the iHeart Radio A. Rich
Orenberger was drafted about the New England Patriots. I love
(34:12):
bringing him on our show. He does loose Cannons down
in San Diego. Very popular show. He's on Fox Sports
Radio in the weekend. Former NFL offensive lineman. So here
goes New England into a very big game week. It's
the big game you've been in these weeks. But this
is a little different because of Lamar Jackson, isn't it. Oh,
it's completely different because of Lamar Jackson. I'll start from
(34:33):
the start. Come November, we got the speech every year
about how the season changes. You have the speech about
the preseason, you have the speech about how the regular
season everything ramps up. And then come November, when everybody's
starting to think about their Thanksgiving plans, the NFL football
season ramps up again. And Bill was very, very sensitive
(34:54):
to this, so it didn't matter who the opponent was.
Once you hit November, this is the point in the
season you really have to turn it on. And then
obviously the postseason after that. Lamar Jackson is a problem.
And what I mean that is, I mean, think about
think about the military schools in college it's a problem
(35:14):
when you have to plan for one of these triple
option offenses, you have one week. They're so unique. Yeah,
you can't do this ahead of time. You have other opponents,
those are other potential losses on your schedule before you
reach this triple option offense. So you only have a
week to prepare. And it's so different. And that's what
the Baltimore Ravens have right now with Lamar Jackson. It
(35:36):
is so unique, it is so different from any other
offense you're gonna see on your schedule, and only having
a week to prepare is such a liability for a defense.
And so really what it comes down to is you
have to stop Baltimore at what they do the best
and hope that he doesn't make deep throws, sideline throws,
(35:56):
and leave the rest up to his arm. Yeah, take
mark ingram out and cross your fingers. They got big
tight ends and they hit on some of those. But
I do believe that's kind of the game. Stop mark
and just say listen, if Lamar beats us on the
edge running, there's nothing we can do about it. Because,
by the way, it's very interesting think about this. In
the NFC, most of the good teams have guys who
can run but don't breeze Garoppolo Dak the AFC, you're
(36:20):
gonna have to face either Mahomes who moves, Lamar who moves,
Josh Allen who moves, Gardner Minshaw who moves. All the
quarterbacks run. So this is your first real test. Oh,
this is what it's like, guys. For the rest of
the season, we're gonna have to beat guys like this
because the AFC, outside of Brady rich it's all moving guys. Oh,
I know. And the really funny thing is I do
agree this is a big first test. But there was
(36:45):
a pre exam in the Bills and that was a
close game. You'll remember because Josh Allen, well, I think
he's better suited to be an h back or a
tight end in an offense. He's not as good of
a quarterback and I mean a passer as some of
these other guys you just mentioned. And it's still a
dual threat quarterback. He can still hurt you downfield improvising,
(37:05):
and he's a good enough athlete and big and strong
enough to hold up against the rush and make you pay.
So they had a pre exam, but Lamar Jackson This
is a Ferrari right now. They're going against and he's
got the keys to the kingdom in Baltimore. Let's go
to something that this week, Joy and I were struck
by how many and I've said this about my White
(37:25):
House and my pro teams. Leaks tell me people are
covering their butt that whether you like a president or
a team, no leaks means everybody's in the same page.
When you get leaks politically or leaks in the sports
franchise Clippers, by the way, get no leaks, credit Trust,
Paul Chris, Paul, no leaks acquired, Paul George, no leaks,
(37:47):
got Kawai, no leaks, Lakers. Every fifteen minutes, there's a
leak that means magic, Polinka, House, divided jets, rumors everywhere.
Why doesn't knowing signs? Mohammed Sanu cricket? What's the secret
for Bill? So this is just a rumor, but I
think it makes sense because if you want to find
(38:08):
a rat, you just you just basically make a It's
so simple. You take a sheet of paper and you
write down all of your potential leak's names, and then
you feed each rat not rat, right, but each assistant
or whoever in your organization a little piece of information
and whatever hits the news, you know who's responsible for it.
(38:30):
It's as easy as just making a list. I told
this guy this. I told, you know, Coach A, we're
trading Edelman. I told Coach B, we're trading Brady. I
told Coach C, we're targeting Mohammed Sanu. And guess what
news breaks two days later. You know exactly who to
come to, you know exactly who to snuff out after
the leak comes out. And that was the rumor in
(38:51):
New England. I was, well, that was the rumor. I
don't know. I can't substantiate it. But you can't substantiate
a lot because again, things don't get out of it.
It's the way it works. Let's talk about OBJ. Came
out and supported his quarterback this week. I'm not a
Baker guy. I think he's talented. He's not my personality
prototype to be a quarterback. What did you make of him?
(39:12):
And the baker and the Tony Grossie the reporter and
the going back and forth and what did you make
all that stuff? I didn't like it. You know, look,
I mean it's some fortunate reality of playing quarterback. In
this league, you are going to be held to a
different standard than the rest of the players. And I
know he is who he is, and I know he's
an emotional guy and it's passionate, you know, when it
(39:36):
fits or whatever, he wrote in the follow up tweet.
But the deal is this, I don't want to walk
into surgery with a guy who's losing his mind in
you know, in crisis. I want my surgeon to have
a deft hand. I want the guy who's heading up
the operation to see composed. When these firefighters who are
(39:56):
fighting wildfires head into danger, they're not losing their minds.
They have a plan, they're working their plan, they're staying
on a script. The most composed person wins in crisis.
Right now, the Browns are facing crisis, and he seems erratic.
It's not what I want to see in leadership. And
(40:17):
it's really what's been presented over the course of this
season so far. Yeah, I don't blame him for all
of it, though I do think Freddie Kitchens, I had
an assistant coach in the NFL tell me this week. Situationally,
when you watch him on film, they're just calling plays.
It's not really head coaching. Freddie Kitchens is just calling plays.
They look lost situationally, and if you look at their
(40:39):
penalties that you can make the argument that what the
coach told me is largely what we're seeing is they
got a coach that's bailing water. He's just not ready
to be a head coach. He's a coach. But you
know you've been in this league. Half the coordinators, he
was never a coordinator. Half the coordinators they whip at
this thing. Oh no, no question. I mean it's a
very difficult job to do. Here's Freddie Kitts and a
(41:00):
guy who I like, a guy who have a tremendous
amount of respect for. And he did something at the
podium when he was asked about situational awareness and things
at the end of one of the games earlier this season.
It resulted in a loss, and you could argue there
were moments where the head coaching decisions gave the game
away and he said, I'm gonna make mistakes and I'm
learning on the run, something to that effect I'm paraphrasing
(41:21):
from But you cannot hear that. Go back to the surgeon.
Do you want somebody postop to be telling you about
all their mistakes. I mean, if I'm gonna have a
shoulder surgery, do I want a guy going yeah, I'll
tell you what sort of sort of screwed up In
a couple of spots, we'll see. You need to be certain.
Look a head coach, like a politician. You mentioned a
(41:44):
white house whatever. You want a crafted orator. You want
someone who, even when it's all going wrong, makes you
feel right. And Freddie Kitchens needs to learn that in
a hurry. Two quarterbacks we watched last night. Let's start
with Kyler Murray. That's interesting, right, he throws baseball background,
he throws a beautiful ball. He tell he may tell
(42:06):
the tightest spiral in the league. What do you make
of him? I really like him. I like him a lot.
I like him pre draft. I didn't like some of
the press that he did. It seemed like he was
still making the decision all the way up until the
decision whether or not he wanted to play football. But
it's clear he wants to be out there and he's
dangerous in all the ways you want a quarterback to be.
You know, it's funny we're just talking about Lamar Jackson.
(42:28):
I see a lot of the same traits. Now I
think Kyler Murray throws a better football, Yes he does,
and he's a more accurate passer. But a dual threat
quarterback in this league is a soothing bomb for everything.
It's like the vitamin C of the NFL. It's a
cure all. If you want to get good fast, draft
you up dual threat quarter But Rich I always say
(42:49):
they all work, they just don't last. Mobile quarterbacks all work.
The really good ones RG three just worked for a year, right,
Mike Vick worked for four. Yeah, but the idea they
don't work. Oh no, they do, can't work for a
long time. Then you get beat up. Yes, yeah, okay.
So a dual threat quarterback is leaving his prime at thirty.
(43:10):
A pocket passer is entering his prime at third. So
when Tom Brady, if you look at all of his
Pro bowls, the majority of them are post thirty. Because
you really find out who you are. You mature in offense,
and of course he stayed in the same offense with
only two coordinators Billy O'Brien and Josh McDaniels. During his
tenure there in New England. He was able to mature
(43:32):
and become the player of prominence that we see him today.
A lot of that has been done post thirty. You
could say the same thing about Drew Brees. But a
lot of these mobile quarterbacks they're leaving their prime at thirty. Yeah,
they've gotten dinged, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz is
heading in that direction. We'll see how long it lasts
with Russell Wilson, but some of the best may already
(43:53):
be behind him. Jimmy Garoppolo, I'm just joking all day.
Quarterback face. My wife said that looks like a friends
quarterback guy. But boy, he plays with confidence, doesn't he. Oh,
he certainly does. He certainly does. And I'll tell you
the knock on him right now is too many turnovers
and a lot of people are referring to him as
a game manager, and I'll get caught up in that
(44:13):
and people will think I'm being negative about Jimmy Garoppolo.
I need to see if he's an elite quarterback. But
what I certainly know is he's has elite football intelligence.
He's not going to give away games. He's a winner.
It's a short sample size, but he's a winner. I
really love his accuracy. I love his command of the huddle.
(44:34):
I love how these guys fight for him. I love
when they're down in the red zone. How confident you
feel about the forty nine ers chances of scoring, whether
it's on the ground or through the air. Yeah, no, no,
he plays with John was saying this John Goolan or
pre meeting. He plays cocky on third down. Yes, He's like,
now it's my team, all right. And it's like Derek
Jeter used to always say, baseball is long going to slumps.
(44:55):
I don't want a lot of negative people around me.
I don't want to be I don't want like I
want to be OPTI missed it going to the place.
I don't want negative thoughts. A Rod was an overthinker. Sure,
I'm gonna have a therapist. I want to talk. Jeter's like,
I want to hit the ball hard. Let's go have
a stake, you know. I mean it's like there is
something to be said about confidence in big moments. Jimmy
g plays confident football again. You know you talked about
composure earlier and turning to the calm death hand in
(45:18):
the room when crisis comes. I mean, short sample size
with Baker Mayfield as well, who do you want on
third and long, Garoppolo or Mayfield? Right now, who do
you want in the red zone when you absolutely have
to have at Garoppolo or Mayfield. You may argue that
Mayfield may have had more success in situations. I don't
have the stats in front of me, but I look
at Garoppolo and I see a steady, deft hand, somebody
(45:40):
who seems like he's got the leadership I need in crisis.
And when you have that confidence and then you back
it up with good play and a winning record like
they have in the San Francisco right now, that is
just It bodes so well for their future. And Kyle Shanahan,
he is coaching his tail off right now. Yeah, finally,
I was totally on this. Raiders are a fun watch.
(46:03):
Start looking at their schedule, it's the toughest in the league.
They had to go to London, Bears, at Indye, Ksey,
at green Bay, at Houston. Outside of green Bay, They're
in all these games. This this this could have just
unraveled teams. They're buying into Gruden Offensively, they got put,
They've got they've got it. They've got a group of guys.
I think they're well coached. I think they built this
(46:26):
team right. They drafted offensive lineman, they paid for offensive lyman.
They have a quarterback who, if you surround him with
more talent on the edges, could end up being a
lead in this league. You have a potential All Pro player.
And Josh Jacobs, good job on that Mac trade making
that number one pick, or it should say first round pick.
He's been going out. He's been great. And by the
way that Darren Waller they got it tied in from Baltimore.
(46:49):
Does he leave the NFL in receptions he did a
couple of weeks ago. He's been a monster. I mean,
and that's what good offenses do with maybe marginal players
or players that sort of are unknown. They turned them
into stars. It happens in New England all the time.
George Kittle with the forty nine Ers in a great
offense is a star. Cooper Cup who knows what he
would be if he was playing for the Bengals, But
(47:09):
in this Rams offense, I believe he's a star. So yeah,
it's building in the right direction. They've had some really
tough losses handed to them. If they improve this defense,
look out the Raiders when they head to Vegas. They
may have a squad
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