May 31, 2023 • 35 mins
In this Best Of The Herd, Doug Gottlieb—in for Colin—knocks Denver Nuggets head coach Mike Malone off his high horse over Malone's unending "nobody gives us the attention we deserve" campaign. Also, Pat Garrity—NBA Front Office Analyst for Stadium Sports, former NBA executive, and former NBA player—joins Doug to discuss Jayson Tatum's value to the Boston Celtics, Bob Myers' resignation from Golden State, the possible makeup of the Los Angeles Lakers' roster next season and Heat-Nuggets in the NBA Finals. Finally, Doug dissects some Packer drama that former Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers recently divulged to the media.
#DougGottliebShow
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowherd
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
What Up. Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be and however you may be, making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in
for Colin Cowherd, and for the next three hours we'll
be talking sports and some other stuff. Right, We're in
(00:52):
this weird kind of waiting game now, weird kind of
waiting game in terms of there's no NBA Finals yet,
although it's set, there's nothing really NFL Baseball. It just
feels like we're making it up to try and talk
about it. This is just like, look, Colin's smart man.
(01:18):
If you're gonna take a week off and go see
Raykovic do it in these next couple days. By the way,
see men, I'll be back on Friday. Getting you ready
for or reacting to NBA Finals Game one. So look,
I I'm fascinated by the psychology backflips that Mike Malone
(01:40):
is trying to pull off, right, because up until this
point he was the nobody pays attention to us guy, right, nobody,
nobody pays attention to us. And it got to the
point where you're like, dude, we hear you already. And
I think the greatest port story you have for the
(02:03):
media not paying attention to the Nuggets is there's nothing
else going on. There's nothing else going on at all. Okay,
and now there's nothing else going on, but the NBA
Finals are set. The Denver Nuggets are in the NBA Finals.
They've been nothing short of incredibly impressive. They have been
(02:24):
the best team in the playoffs. It's not really close,
and yet, I mean, what are we talking about here?
And I understand it's hard to make up storylines when
they don't yet exist. We don't yet see the matchups.
Tyler Herro is gonna come back and play. Does that
help her screw up the Miami heat? Ah? You know,
(02:46):
I don't know, But I found the backflips that Mike
Malone did yesterday to be really interesting. Here's the Nuggets
head coach talking about the Heat being an eight seed
in this series.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Forget the A seed stuff. They beat Milwaukee, one team
that the most wins in the NBA this year. They
beat Boston four to three and they're up three to
zero team, but I think the second most wins in
the NBA this year. So you get to the NBA Finals,
it's not the best seeding anymore. You're trying to win
the first NBA championship in franchise history. It's gonna be
the hardest thing that we've ever done, which is the
(03:18):
way he should be.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I mean, look, I understand what he's saying, which is like,
it doesn't matter. And this is back when you go
to the NCAA Tournament's like, look, seed number doesn't matter.
Team starts winning a game, they're playing above their level.
And if we're really honest about it, what does the
seed mean in the NBA playoffs anyway? Since the regular
season doesn't matter, it does, and it does. Is it
(03:45):
really a determinant entel who's really the best team? Not really?
Just like the MVP is a regular season award, the
regular season, the best record in the regular season is
it's a it's completely different sport. I do think home
court advantage now he matters, but especially matters in Denver
with the altitude, and matters with a team that has
(04:07):
a couple of as one player that's been there before,
albeit in the bubble with KCP, but for the most
part inexperience at this point of the playoffs. I but
what Mike Malone is doing is he played the underdog
card as much as he could, and now he looks down.
(04:27):
He's just got a handful of aces, and now he's like, well,
you guys think it's easy to play with, you know aces? Yeah, yoh, sure,
we're the best team, but seeds don't matter here. I mean, look,
it's brilliant. It's not diabolical, right, He's not doing anything
(04:48):
sinister here. But it's painfully obvious we're out of underdog
cards now that we're the favorite, and it's obvious that
everyone expects us to win and to this thing up
pretty quickly. Despite all of that, I can't allow my
guys to be complacent, which only shows that all the
(05:09):
other stuff he said was clearly psychological nonsense to begin with.
It's like when you have when you have an argument,
and I don't know if you guys do this when
you're it's like whenever I've been on debate shows. Did
you know I was on the debate team in high school,
Jason Stewart, I was actually tested in high school. We
(05:30):
had a model un debate team and I was on
the debate team.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
You've mentioned that before. I could see you.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Oh yeah, totally, but it was you know, it's like
to lose.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Doug and you like to talk over people, So that
sounds like a debate tactic.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Would you say, I couldn't hear you. I was thinking
about what actually actually in debates. I don't like to
talk over people. What I I struggle to do is
I find and the way in which I feel like
you can win debates is when you find the one
falsehood in something someone's saying, Like they can list ten things.
(06:08):
You find the one thing that isn't correct, and that's
definably incorrect, and it can bring down all the other
arguments even if they are correct. Right. The other way
is to use their argument against them, use the exact argument.
You go, okay, it works for you there, how about here?
Those are the two ways in which I like to
find ways to win arguments, and the easy way to
(06:32):
pick apart this argument that he's making is to simply
say that, Okay, then if regular season and seeding don't matter,
why did you complain so much about the lack of
attention that you got based upon the success of your
(06:53):
regular season previously? It dismantles every part of his of
his argument. So look, I think Malone has done. First
of all, they're a beautifully coached team. They're really well
coached team, and there is something real to the Hey,
(07:13):
they haven't played, they won't have played in a week
when they played, and as much as the Heat were
pushed to seven games, they've had a good recovery time.
I think some of it balances out with playing an
outstudent being in altitude and that doesn't make it easier,
and the Heat will have a different look and a
different rotation, however they choose to use Tyler Hero. But
(07:36):
I just think that this whole thing is brilliant and
yet very easy to see what he's doing. He's been
the perceived underdog, or tried to build up that they're
the underdog the entire time in the playoffs. Nobody believes
in us. Nobody watches us. Nobody respects us despite all
(07:59):
of our successes. You didn't realize Jokisch was that good. Course,
not nobody watches. He's right, But it's not because we
don't think you're good. It's because it's regular season NBA.
You're in Denver, you haven't won anything. It just it
doesn't necessarily fit on our radar with all this other
(08:19):
stuff going on. But all of a sudden, you do
the flip to the no, no, no, we're not the
favorite now because seeds don't matter. Wait huh, it mattered
when you were the underdog. It doesn't matter when you're
the favorite. And yes, they were the underdog going into
the Lakers series. The Lakers had the best odds after
(08:42):
I think the midway point of the Warriors series. The
Lakers had the best odds to get to the NBA Finals.
That of course makes them a favorite. They were a
favorite to beat the Denver Nuggets, so regardless of seed,
they were favorite. Now the Nuggets are a hefty favorite
to win the championship. Like, ah, seed don't matter. It's brilliant,
(09:03):
but it's so right there in front of you, And
I guess the question is, does anybody buy that does good.
You know he's right, don't matter because again, this is
where you use his argument against him. Wait, you just
said that you know you were an underdog. Now can't
you create the same energy underdog for the Miami Heat?
Nobody believes in them, eight seed, not the favorite, et cetera,
(09:26):
et cetera. I'm fascinated by the psychology of a coach,
and and it's been relayed to me by other people
because I've asked people in basketball, like why is he
why is he saying these things? Like when they were
clearly better than the Lakers? You know, he was still
(09:48):
saying and making these statements as if they were massive
underdogs and they were feeling slighted and nobody pays attention
to us. And and the response I got was like, Hey,
you're still got to find ways to motivate your team.
You need that. That feels like high school stuff, little
kid stuff. But it's true. Like the It's like they
(10:09):
say about comedians, right, the saddest people you'll meet are
the funniest people you'll meet, because comedians are they're not
necessarily hiding. They're trying to work through all the other
pain in their life, and they do so with humor. Well,
I mean, I think the same can be true for
(10:30):
confident people or people who you perceive as super confident, successful,
super The guys that have this, I mean like a
professional athlete. These guys talk and walk as if I
mean Jamal Murray, I think I'm one of the best
players in the NBA. I don't disagree, But you having
to say it and then you having to have your
coach basically make you out to be an underdog when
(10:52):
you are not, tells me that there's some either perceived
lack of motivation. I don't think that's what it is,
or that the ability to motivate is that you have
naysayers and yeah, we're all competitors. That gets anybody going,
But I think even more so at this level it's
(11:13):
the NBA Finals. Why do you need anybody to say
anything to you to get you motivated because you have
some sort of maybe insecurity and it triggers it and
gets you to lock in. The psychology of coaching is
really really interesting, and you would think that at this
level there isn't some psychological warfare you have to play
(11:35):
on your own players to make the narrative some sort
of negative But I think apparently that's what Mike Malone
and many others feel is needed.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Easter not A Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Doug Golliban for Collins The Herd on Fox Sports Radio
thee Art Radio app. One of the things I love
about a lot of the post career and even mid
career podcasts and shows that people do is when we're kids,
it was the dumb jock, right, and then you hear people,
(12:18):
you know, CJ. McCullum, and you're like, well, that dude's brilliant, right,
JJ Briddeck obviously very bright as well. There's so many
different athletes current formerly you're like, man, they're really bright guys.
Brightest dude I ever played with is our next guest.
He's the When he played, he was the president of
the NBA PA. He's now he's worked in front office
(12:42):
for the Detroit Pistons and now he's a front office
analyst for Stadium. Pat Garretty's going to join us in
a moment, of course, start Notre Dame. Ten year career
in the NBA, and I'm fascinated with the off season
of so many of these teams. Pat, thanks so much
for taking time. Let let's go to this Celtics first. Okay,
so last year you go to the finals. This year
(13:06):
you go to the conference finals, and remember you had
a tumultuous coaching change right before the season. If you're
in that front office, what do you do.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Well, the first thing you don't do is you don't
trade Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum. There I'll be obviously
looking to move Tatum. But look, you know, I think
it's really easy to look at that Miami series and
particularly how it ended, and particularly like poke holes in
some of the offensive flaws of that team, because I
(13:40):
think that that was the big story was on the
offensive end of the floor and say like, this group
is not the group that's gonna win a championship for us.
And I think that that's an overreaction. I don't think
Boston's going to do that. I think that they look
at having two guys who play a position and have
the skill sets that are that are just so in
demand in the NBA right now, and the job really
(14:03):
for them, I think is to add more playmaking because
I think that that's the one thing that they lack.
I think that you can make an argument that Marcus
Smart when he's on the floor is their best playmaker,
and it's a spot. I think that when they got
brogged in in they thought, you know, he could take
a large part of that, and maybe he didn't play
as large of a role as they thought. But I
(14:24):
think that that's the one area that can approve because look,
they're a premier defensive team, and I think that just
their offensive style is so reliant on playing a certain
type of way that in the playoffs they need to
be able to be successful in other types of ways.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, it's a great point you bring up. It's like,
I know, the true point guard is kind of no
more in the NBA. But I would also tell you
that like Jalen Brown has never been a decision maker
in the role in which he's placed, Jason Tatum like
those Brown's a slasher score, Jason Tatum's pure score. And
(15:01):
yet the way in which they attack the don't they're
the ones making all the decisions and all the reads.
I think as much as the offensive attack was flawed,
the personnel making the attack equally flawed.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Fair No I think that's absolutely fair. And I think, look,
you never try to put a feeling on a player's growth,
and so I think that every summer Jalen Brown can
be focused on improving it the decision maker and a playmaker.
But I think we both agree that that's never going
to be his strong suit, you know. And I think
that you can get playmaking outside of the traditional point
(15:34):
guard role. I think if you look at a lot
of teams, what they're able to do with the senate
position is an area where you can get a lot
of that. And so I think that you're right. I
think neither of those two guys is really going to
be the guys that never are going to be setting
on anyone up. But I think as they build their teams,
that's a skill set at whatever position they really need
(15:56):
to focus on.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Okay, so again you talked about center. That's like Nikola
Jokic right point center, point forward down. How do you
adjust that? How do you adjust that roster if it's you?
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Well, I think Rob Williams right now, that to me,
he's a really interesting question going forward because when he's
on the floor, he brings their defense to another level.
I think he's I think he's probably maybe an underrated passer,
but it doesn't look to me like they've pushed him
(16:29):
to kind of expand that part of his game more.
He's more of a lob threat at the rim, and
so I think the question becomes, if he is your
center of the future and he lacks that skill set
on the offensive end, are you willing to maybe find
defense in other areas if you're going to try to
go and you know, address the playmaking issue on the
(16:52):
offensive end. I think it's a hard question because I
think he does so much for them defensively.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
How have the Heat done this.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Well? Anyone that like is just going to dissect what
they did in the playoffs and said, yeah, there were
signs here. I think is blind new it's come number one.
Aren't just incredible epic shot making? First by Jimmy Butler
in their first round series he averaged thirty seven points
and I think shot forty five percent for three And
(17:22):
then I think what Kayla Martin has done gave Vincent
that's been really special. I think that an underrated part
of the coaching and what Eric Spolstra was able to
do in playing zone and being able to keep Duncan
Robinson on the floor and then having Duncan contribute like
he did on the offensive and not only just shot making,
(17:43):
but just a spacing. I think that that was an
underrating coaching move in an area of trust that Eric
Spolstra had that I thought was a very fun thing
to watch.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, I listen. I think it helped him. And you know,
I look, Max Shrus is not the greatest defend ride.
It helps them keep one or even both of them
on the floor. And because of because of how Boston
attacked did and because you know out when now horforsign
or even when he was in, they're able to allow
Bam out of Baio to still protect the rim. Like
(18:15):
they kind of got the best of both worlds. They
didn't have to have their center come out and cover,
and they didn't expose their perimeter players who weren't great
defenders on the ball.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
It is, you know what, as a as a guy,
you who watches a lot of college basketball knows the
game way better than the collegey of it that I do.
I think it's always comical to watch NBA teams try
to like attack a zone when they when they rarely
see it, or go against it because you're just like
screaming at the TV of what to do, and they
never do it, moving moving the zone, side the side
(18:46):
and moving the ball and inevitably, like that's what Boston
did and that's why it was so successful. They they
tried to they tried to isolate individually and attack the zone.
The shotcock would run down and there was no time
left for two or three passes to move his own route.
And I think if that's one area that the Denver
is going to be able to do, and I'd to
(19:07):
be surprised if Miami is going to have much success
if they try to go that route, I would.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I would tend a tender grief. You let's go to
the Golden State Warriors. Bob Meyer's just worn out by
Joe lacap right, Like there's a story today, thirty texts
a day, thirty calls a day or whatever is it?
Why why step away?
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah? And I don't have any particular insight here, Like
I'm following the story and reading it just like everyone else.
Like I tend to just take him at his word.
That look, the spotlight that they've been under and what
he's done over the last twelve years there, you know,
takes a toll, and I could totally see him saying, look,
(19:53):
I still have a lot left in the tank and
a lot left to accomplish as an executive in the NBA,
and I know if I a year or two off,
I'm going to get to pick any situation I want
and compensation is not going to be an issue. And
just thinking that this is the right time. I don't
know if I'm going to read too much into it
in terms of the conflict or the you know, personalities,
(20:15):
you know, and butting heads with the owner. I just
tend to take him at his word that is look
a little burned out and I need some time and
I'm going to recharge and re emerge somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So what do you do with that roster? Right you
have Draymond with Steve Kerr said, hey, there's no championship
window if we don't have Draymond. Clearly he wants him back. Uh,
Clay wants an extension a year early. I don't know
how you feel about that. And then you have Jordan
Poole with a sizeable contract, who had a really disciplined
(20:46):
year obviously following the incident with Draymond.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Yeah, I think that the other element here is obviously
going to be the new CDA rules and just how
punitive it is to be above that second aprin and
and so you know, to me, I think it's well,
as long as you have step there, you bring Draymond back,
I think they're gonna have to pay to try to
(21:11):
get off pool. So I wouldn't be surprised if they
did that and then just tried to run it back
with the Big three and then supplementing with you know,
hopefully undrafted guys, older vets, cheap guys around the roster
and hoping that you can get it done that way.
But I don't I don't see any imminent breakup of
it this summer at all.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
All right, Lakers, it worked because they got Russell Westbrook
out of the building, but it didn't work. I don't
think if you bring back d' angelo Russell long term,
you got to have somebody else who's a playmaker shot creator.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
But yeah, well, I think I think Austin Reason is
that guy, and I think that that's going to be
the fascinating thing to watch, just because he could he
could be one of those guys that their teams go
and strug Sure, one of those funky contracts that we
saw with you know, guys like Tyler Johnson and those
guys back in.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
The day Poison Poison World contracts.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Right, poison, Yeah, exactly where you where you you know,
not to get into the captaindricacies, but it gets really,
it gets really expensive in the out years for a
team trying to match it. But but I agree, like
I think that with Lebron, well, like Lebron on the
floor is your playmaker. And what he's shown is that
(22:30):
number one, if you put size around him, they can
be an elite defensive team. And if you put shooting
around him and just maybe one other guy that if
the ball swings too can put it on the floor
and make a play, and you have two or three
other shooters, that they can be a competent offensive team
and a team that once you get in the playoffs,
(22:52):
can win games just because they can be dominant defensively
and he can carry a team on the offensive end.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
But I don't I don't think he's that guy anymore.
I don't think I mean, I just just like we're
talking again, we got to look forward one more year.
He's a year later, whether he comes off of surgery
or comes off of rehab of the foot, like the
likelihood is and he I mean, I don't even think
he knows it, right, That's why they wanted Westbrook. He
(23:17):
needs somebody else to create shots because he just can't.
And he can do it for a limited time, but
then at some point he runs out of gas doing it.
And even defensively, he's not the guy he used to be.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
No, no, no question about that. But I think that
with him, he's not going to have to play a
whole season, and you're going to see him strategically take
breaks throughout the season where maybe he's going to play
sixty games, right and be fressure ready to go. I
agree if you if you're making deep runs and you're
playing for Evinity game at some point, like he's going
(23:52):
to run out of gas. But he Yeah, I mean,
what did the average for the playoffs? He average twenty
five to nine to eight.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, look like he had forty in their last year,
had forty the last game, but they got swept. Yeah, right,
but they got swept. So uh, I just you know,
and and I and people like why does he go
down to the post he's never been crazy comfortable down there,
and when he does, he gets tired, as anybody who's
(24:22):
thirty eight thirty nine years old go to get to
get tired quicker. You know, uh, I think you.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Have no question that he's he's he's obviously he and
you just watch the games. He's much more comfortable, like
first of all, in transition attacking the rim, and then
second facing facing the defense and attacking and making plays.
And if you don't help, like he's just going to
physically still overpower GUIDs.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
All right. The coaching hires are interesting, Adrian Griffin, like
I would have thought Milwaukee will go with a guy
who had won a title, and there's several that are
out there. Instead Nick Nurse, who's won that title, he
goes to Philly. Griffin right now goes to goes to Milwaukee.
If your phoenix place you played place, you know well,
(25:08):
and you have two stars, you got to figure out
their roster. What you do with Chris Paul what you know,
you got it? What do you do with Deandreen? What
do you do with your Phoenix?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
I'm you know, and this is not a sexy name,
but I'm a big fan of Frank Bogul. I think
that he's a guy that you know is always going
to be well prepared, like you know, and the personnel
obviously makes the team, but what he was able to
do in LA with them on the defensive end of
the floor, I think no one could argue about his
(25:39):
ability to coach defense. And then I think that there's
just a temperament and personality aspect there where he's you know,
a little bit understated and he's not going to grate
on the nerves of stars with either being you know,
too emotional, too roller coaster of emotions. I think you
(26:00):
would be a good choice there. And he's Look, he's
not a guy that you win the press conference with,
but I think he's a guy that you look fifty
sixty games into the season and say, man, he's really
doing a good job with that team.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I tend to agree. I just I wonder if you
know you got the Isaiah Thomas factor in there. You've
got a new owner. Are they looking for a sexy name,
are they looking for a younger name. It's just you
really question it. Last thing, who do you think wins
the series?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (26:27):
Wow? I mean it's not an original answer, but I
just think Denver is just going to be a both
to even if they're average defensively, they're just going to
overwhelm Miami on the offensive. And and I think Miami
puts up a good fight, and I wouldn't surpriably, it'd
be surprised if they split a game in Denver and
went back and made a good run of it in
either game three or four. But I think it's ultimately
(26:48):
going to be Denver with just too much offensive firepower.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Actually I lied, that wasn't the last thing. Victor web Yama,
Victor Ebinyama, Okay, I know you haven't broken down all
the prospects, but like, he checks all these boxes, but
there's still so much unknown. You have people going, well,
if he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer, it's
a it's an underachievement, is there any way? If you're
(27:14):
San Antonio, you build a whole new team by trading him.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
Oh no, no, no chance, because you just have so
much control over over the next ten years of his career.
If he ends up being like a Hall of Fame
type player, and even if he's not a Hall of
Fame type player, like if he's an All NBA player,
and and you drafted a number one like you did
a pretty good job. And just the way that it
(27:41):
works with being able to extend guys and maintain control,
there's there's no chance that they hit the fast forward
button and try to try to do anything like that.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Pat, you're the best. Enjoy the finals, look for your
your next hit on Stadium. Thanks so much for joining us.
Thanks Doug all right, that's Pat Garretty for in front
office analyst for Stadium Sports.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Hey gagn This Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a mental
health podcast, and each week we try to help turn
our mental health issues into mental wealth, and we dive
in with everyone from a world of sports and entertainment
like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade, got Fiemi,
and also those who can help us in between the ears,
(28:26):
anyone from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for
John Gordon. So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer,
a mental health podcast on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Doug Ot leaving for cong It's the Herd. Fox Sports Radio,
iHeart Radio app Ooh, this is a good one. This
is a good one. Good one, right, don't you love
the juicy details of a breakup? What he say and
then what she say, and then what he say and
then what she say? Right? Well, well that's what we
have in the Athletic match. Schneedman covers the Packers for
(29:05):
The Athletic and he detailed the breakup and breakdown of
the relationship between Aaron Rodgers and Brian Goodkins, essentially Aaron
Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. He talked to Aaron
Rodgers like Aaron Rodgers kind of took him through what
happened after Jordan Love was drafted. For example, did I
(29:29):
want to Rogers said years down the line, go, well,
if we had just taken somebody who could impact our
team because we had just gone to the NFC championship game. Yeah,
of course Rogers said that the Packers isn't a draft Love.
I don't think any competitor would say anything different. So
Rogers is trying to make it out that it wasn't
that they drafted Jordan Love. It's that, hey, they just
went to the NFC Championship game. And everyone knows that
(29:51):
if you draft a quarterback like it's a in order
for him to play, Aaron has to sit. So and
that wasn't happening, And it was a future selection, so
he wouldn't, right, you know, he wouldn't. T Higgins for example,
was available, taken in the second round, I would have
helped the Green Bay Packers, According to a source associate
(30:14):
with the team who was granted anonymity to candidly discuss
the sensitive dynamics between the front office and the star quarterback,
early in the twenty twenty one off season, done rogers
agent called Mark Murphy to request one of two things,
trade Rogers or fire Brian Gounenkunz. Murphy did neither. Months later,
(30:37):
news broke that Rogers wanted out of Green Bay, but
the Packers held firm. It goes to the twenty twenty
one off season. Okay, so this is obviously not last year.
It's the previous year. Okay. So in the previous year,
remember that's when he was holding out. I was when
he didn't know if he wanted to come back. What
was going on. After the first practice of camp, Rogers
(31:02):
aired his grievances, saying he wanted changes to the organization's
communication and culture. According to Rogers, the communication between he
and Goodenkunst improved, but quote, it still wasn't anywhere near
what I've already enjoyed here with the Jets in just
a few short weeks. So the Jets in a new relationship,
they want to be open, honest, full lines of communication.
(31:26):
According to the source, the next offseason, this is the
last year's last offseason, the Packers weren't satisfied with Rogers'
commitment and effort right not only during voluntary OTAs, but
day to day basis afterwards. Rogers takes exception to the
thought that the team wanted more from him in the
months after giving him the richest contract in NFL history.
(31:49):
When I'm in, I'm all in. You just want to
ride or die with off season workouts. I won the
MVP without doing off season workouts. Like my commitment level
was any then, I'd say not at all. The way
I came back to work, not just physically in good shape,
(32:09):
but mentally refreshed is the thing that for me was
the reason I was able to have the season I
wanted to In Green Bay you fast forward to this
offseason and Good and Cunts and Rogers agreed to meet
in person in southern California, where Rogers lives. In the
off season. Good and Cunts was traveling in January to
the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl. They never connected. And this is
(32:32):
that story that many people have talked about, that there
was a disconnect because the Packers wouldn't FaceTime him. Quote,
I have zero or one bar at the house. This
is Aaron Rodgers. So you call me. Sometimes it goes through.
Most times it doesn't go through. Everybody who knows me
knows when I'm out west. They know how to get
(32:54):
a hold of me. So you can say whatever you want.
But that's the effing truth. Before I went into darkness,
I hit him up and said, here's some stuff swirling
around here. We should get together you me and Matt.
Did Brian text me more than I text him? Yeah?
But did I gohost him? No? I texted him back
and there was back and forth that we had. And
(33:16):
so this is the story that you want to go with.
You're gonna stand on this hill of austerity and say, arguably,
in the conversation, the best player in your franchise history.
You're gonna say, I couldn't get a hold of him
and that's why we had to move on. Like, come on,
just tell the truth. You want to move on. You
didn't like the fact that we didn't communicate all the time. Listen,
(33:36):
I talk to the people that I like. I mean,
Aaron Rodgers contradicts himself and tells you who he really
is in all of these statements. Like first, he's like, look, man,
I want open lines of communication. They won't try to
communicate with you. You didn't want to communicate back with them,
And your defense is I communicate all the time with
(33:57):
the people I like. I didn't like Brian Goodecuns. I
didn't like him, And so there was this thing was
over two years ago, three years ago when they drafted
Jordan Love. There's no way you can read this article
in which Aaron Rodgers defends they wanted me to show
up for OTAs I need to be refreshed, like it's
not all about you. Rogers is probably right. It probably
(34:21):
is refreshing to get away, to go on a trip,
to go hiking, to go find yourself. But when you're
trying to involve new wide receivers, and have a new
connection and be one with the team and be connected.
You got to be there. You got to be there.
(34:42):
It's like they say about parenting. Most important thing about parenting,
it's just showing up. Most important thing about relationships is
open lines of communication. And Rogers saying I want to communicate,
but I communicate plenty with the people I like, tells
you he didn't like Brian cunnikins, so he communicated as
much as was needed in order to keep the h
(35:03):
in order to keep some form of relationship going.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
One More Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowherd
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
What Up. Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be and however you may be, making this part
of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in
for Colin Cowherd, and for the next three hours we'll
be talking sports and some other stuff. Right, We're in
(00:52):
this weird kind of waiting game now, weird kind of
waiting game in terms of there's no NBA Finals yet,
although it's set, there's nothing really NFL Baseball. It just
feels like we're making it up to try and talk
about it. This is just like, look, Colin's smart man.
(01:18):
If you're gonna take a week off and go see
Raykovic do it in these next couple days. By the way,
see men, I'll be back on Friday. Getting you ready
for or reacting to NBA Finals Game one. So look,
I I'm fascinated by the psychology backflips that Mike Malone
(01:40):
is trying to pull off, right, because up until this
point he was the nobody pays attention to us guy, right, nobody,
nobody pays attention to us. And it got to the
point where you're like, dude, we hear you already. And
I think the greatest port story you have for the
(02:03):
media not paying attention to the Nuggets is there's nothing
else going on. There's nothing else going on at all. Okay,
and now there's nothing else going on, but the NBA
Finals are set. The Denver Nuggets are in the NBA Finals.
They've been nothing short of incredibly impressive. They have been
(02:24):
the best team in the playoffs. It's not really close,
and yet, I mean, what are we talking about here?
And I understand it's hard to make up storylines when
they don't yet exist. We don't yet see the matchups.
Tyler Herro is gonna come back and play. Does that
help her screw up the Miami heat? Ah? You know,
(02:46):
I don't know, But I found the backflips that Mike
Malone did yesterday to be really interesting. Here's the Nuggets
head coach talking about the Heat being an eight seed
in this series.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Forget the A seed stuff. They beat Milwaukee, one team
that the most wins in the NBA this year. They
beat Boston four to three and they're up three to
zero team, but I think the second most wins in
the NBA this year. So you get to the NBA Finals,
it's not the best seeding anymore. You're trying to win
the first NBA championship in franchise history. It's gonna be
the hardest thing that we've ever done, which is the
(03:18):
way he should be.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I mean, look, I understand what he's saying, which is like,
it doesn't matter. And this is back when you go
to the NCAA Tournament's like, look, seed number doesn't matter.
Team starts winning a game, they're playing above their level.
And if we're really honest about it, what does the
seed mean in the NBA playoffs anyway? Since the regular
season doesn't matter, it does, and it does. Is it
(03:45):
really a determinant entel who's really the best team? Not really?
Just like the MVP is a regular season award, the
regular season, the best record in the regular season is
it's a it's completely different sport. I do think home
court advantage now he matters, but especially matters in Denver
with the altitude, and matters with a team that has
(04:07):
a couple of as one player that's been there before,
albeit in the bubble with KCP, but for the most
part inexperience at this point of the playoffs. I but
what Mike Malone is doing is he played the underdog
card as much as he could, and now he looks down.
(04:27):
He's just got a handful of aces, and now he's like, well,
you guys think it's easy to play with, you know aces? Yeah, yoh, sure,
we're the best team, but seeds don't matter here. I mean, look,
it's brilliant. It's not diabolical, right, He's not doing anything
(04:48):
sinister here. But it's painfully obvious we're out of underdog
cards now that we're the favorite, and it's obvious that
everyone expects us to win and to this thing up
pretty quickly. Despite all of that, I can't allow my
guys to be complacent, which only shows that all the
(05:09):
other stuff he said was clearly psychological nonsense to begin with.
It's like when you have when you have an argument,
and I don't know if you guys do this when
you're it's like whenever I've been on debate shows. Did
you know I was on the debate team in high school,
Jason Stewart, I was actually tested in high school. We
(05:30):
had a model un debate team and I was on
the debate team.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
You've mentioned that before. I could see you.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Oh yeah, totally, but it was you know, it's like
to lose.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Doug and you like to talk over people, So that
sounds like a debate tactic.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Would you say, I couldn't hear you. I was thinking
about what actually actually in debates. I don't like to
talk over people. What I I struggle to do is
I find and the way in which I feel like
you can win debates is when you find the one
falsehood in something someone's saying, Like they can list ten things.
(06:08):
You find the one thing that isn't correct, and that's
definably incorrect, and it can bring down all the other
arguments even if they are correct. Right. The other way
is to use their argument against them, use the exact argument.
You go, okay, it works for you there, how about here?
Those are the two ways in which I like to
find ways to win arguments, and the easy way to
(06:32):
pick apart this argument that he's making is to simply
say that, Okay, then if regular season and seeding don't matter,
why did you complain so much about the lack of
attention that you got based upon the success of your
(06:53):
regular season previously? It dismantles every part of his of
his argument. So look, I think Malone has done. First
of all, they're a beautifully coached team. They're really well
coached team, and there is something real to the Hey,
(07:13):
they haven't played, they won't have played in a week
when they played, and as much as the Heat were
pushed to seven games, they've had a good recovery time.
I think some of it balances out with playing an
outstudent being in altitude and that doesn't make it easier,
and the Heat will have a different look and a
different rotation, however they choose to use Tyler Hero. But
(07:36):
I just think that this whole thing is brilliant and
yet very easy to see what he's doing. He's been
the perceived underdog, or tried to build up that they're
the underdog the entire time in the playoffs. Nobody believes
in us. Nobody watches us. Nobody respects us despite all
(07:59):
of our successes. You didn't realize Jokisch was that good. Course,
not nobody watches. He's right, But it's not because we
don't think you're good. It's because it's regular season NBA.
You're in Denver, you haven't won anything. It just it
doesn't necessarily fit on our radar with all this other
(08:19):
stuff going on. But all of a sudden, you do
the flip to the no, no, no, we're not the
favorite now because seeds don't matter. Wait huh, it mattered
when you were the underdog. It doesn't matter when you're
the favorite. And yes, they were the underdog going into
the Lakers series. The Lakers had the best odds after
(08:42):
I think the midway point of the Warriors series. The
Lakers had the best odds to get to the NBA Finals.
That of course makes them a favorite. They were a
favorite to beat the Denver Nuggets, so regardless of seed,
they were favorite. Now the Nuggets are a hefty favorite
to win the championship. Like, ah, seed don't matter. It's brilliant,
(09:03):
but it's so right there in front of you, And
I guess the question is, does anybody buy that does good.
You know he's right, don't matter because again, this is
where you use his argument against him. Wait, you just
said that you know you were an underdog. Now can't
you create the same energy underdog for the Miami Heat?
Nobody believes in them, eight seed, not the favorite, et cetera,
(09:26):
et cetera. I'm fascinated by the psychology of a coach,
and and it's been relayed to me by other people
because I've asked people in basketball, like why is he
why is he saying these things? Like when they were
clearly better than the Lakers? You know, he was still
(09:48):
saying and making these statements as if they were massive
underdogs and they were feeling slighted and nobody pays attention
to us. And and the response I got was like, Hey,
you're still got to find ways to motivate your team.
You need that. That feels like high school stuff, little
kid stuff. But it's true. Like the It's like they
(10:09):
say about comedians, right, the saddest people you'll meet are
the funniest people you'll meet, because comedians are they're not
necessarily hiding. They're trying to work through all the other
pain in their life, and they do so with humor. Well,
I mean, I think the same can be true for
(10:30):
confident people or people who you perceive as super confident, successful,
super The guys that have this, I mean like a
professional athlete. These guys talk and walk as if I
mean Jamal Murray, I think I'm one of the best
players in the NBA. I don't disagree, But you having
to say it and then you having to have your
coach basically make you out to be an underdog when
(10:52):
you are not, tells me that there's some either perceived
lack of motivation. I don't think that's what it is,
or that the ability to motivate is that you have
naysayers and yeah, we're all competitors. That gets anybody going,
But I think even more so at this level it's
(11:13):
the NBA Finals. Why do you need anybody to say
anything to you to get you motivated because you have
some sort of maybe insecurity and it triggers it and
gets you to lock in. The psychology of coaching is
really really interesting, and you would think that at this
level there isn't some psychological warfare you have to play
(11:35):
on your own players to make the narrative some sort
of negative But I think apparently that's what Mike Malone
and many others feel is needed.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Easter not A Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Doug Golliban for Collins The Herd on Fox Sports Radio
thee Art Radio app. One of the things I love
about a lot of the post career and even mid
career podcasts and shows that people do is when we're kids,
it was the dumb jock, right, and then you hear people,
(12:18):
you know, CJ. McCullum, and you're like, well, that dude's brilliant, right,
JJ Briddeck obviously very bright as well. There's so many
different athletes current formerly you're like, man, they're really bright guys.
Brightest dude I ever played with is our next guest.
He's the When he played, he was the president of
the NBA PA. He's now he's worked in front office
(12:42):
for the Detroit Pistons and now he's a front office
analyst for Stadium. Pat Garretty's going to join us in
a moment, of course, start Notre Dame. Ten year career
in the NBA, and I'm fascinated with the off season
of so many of these teams. Pat, thanks so much
for taking time. Let let's go to this Celtics first. Okay,
so last year you go to the finals. This year
(13:06):
you go to the conference finals, and remember you had
a tumultuous coaching change right before the season. If you're
in that front office, what do you do.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Well, the first thing you don't do is you don't
trade Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum. There I'll be obviously
looking to move Tatum. But look, you know, I think
it's really easy to look at that Miami series and
particularly how it ended, and particularly like poke holes in
some of the offensive flaws of that team, because I
(13:40):
think that that was the big story was on the
offensive end of the floor and say like, this group
is not the group that's gonna win a championship for us.
And I think that that's an overreaction. I don't think
Boston's going to do that. I think that they look
at having two guys who play a position and have
the skill sets that are that are just so in
demand in the NBA right now, and the job really
(14:03):
for them, I think is to add more playmaking because
I think that that's the one thing that they lack.
I think that you can make an argument that Marcus
Smart when he's on the floor is their best playmaker,
and it's a spot. I think that when they got
brogged in in they thought, you know, he could take
a large part of that, and maybe he didn't play
as large of a role as they thought. But I
(14:24):
think that that's the one area that can approve because look,
they're a premier defensive team, and I think that just
their offensive style is so reliant on playing a certain
type of way that in the playoffs they need to
be able to be successful in other types of ways.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, it's a great point you bring up. It's like,
I know, the true point guard is kind of no
more in the NBA. But I would also tell you
that like Jalen Brown has never been a decision maker
in the role in which he's placed, Jason Tatum like
those Brown's a slasher score, Jason Tatum's pure score. And
(15:01):
yet the way in which they attack the don't they're
the ones making all the decisions and all the reads.
I think as much as the offensive attack was flawed,
the personnel making the attack equally flawed.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Fair No I think that's absolutely fair. And I think, look,
you never try to put a feeling on a player's growth,
and so I think that every summer Jalen Brown can
be focused on improving it the decision maker and a playmaker.
But I think we both agree that that's never going
to be his strong suit, you know. And I think
that you can get playmaking outside of the traditional point
(15:34):
guard role. I think if you look at a lot
of teams, what they're able to do with the senate
position is an area where you can get a lot
of that. And so I think that you're right. I
think neither of those two guys is really going to
be the guys that never are going to be setting
on anyone up. But I think as they build their teams,
that's a skill set at whatever position they really need
(15:56):
to focus on.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Okay, so again you talked about center. That's like Nikola
Jokic right point center, point forward down. How do you
adjust that? How do you adjust that roster if it's you?
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Well, I think Rob Williams right now, that to me,
he's a really interesting question going forward because when he's
on the floor, he brings their defense to another level.
I think he's I think he's probably maybe an underrated passer,
but it doesn't look to me like they've pushed him
(16:29):
to kind of expand that part of his game more.
He's more of a lob threat at the rim, and
so I think the question becomes, if he is your
center of the future and he lacks that skill set
on the offensive end, are you willing to maybe find
defense in other areas if you're going to try to
go and you know, address the playmaking issue on the
(16:52):
offensive end. I think it's a hard question because I
think he does so much for them defensively.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
How have the Heat done this.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Well? Anyone that like is just going to dissect what
they did in the playoffs and said, yeah, there were
signs here. I think is blind new it's come number one.
Aren't just incredible epic shot making? First by Jimmy Butler
in their first round series he averaged thirty seven points
and I think shot forty five percent for three And
(17:22):
then I think what Kayla Martin has done gave Vincent
that's been really special. I think that an underrated part
of the coaching and what Eric Spolstra was able to
do in playing zone and being able to keep Duncan
Robinson on the floor and then having Duncan contribute like
he did on the offensive and not only just shot making,
(17:43):
but just a spacing. I think that that was an
underrating coaching move in an area of trust that Eric
Spolstra had that I thought was a very fun thing
to watch.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, I listen. I think it helped him. And you know,
I look, Max Shrus is not the greatest defend ride.
It helps them keep one or even both of them
on the floor. And because of because of how Boston
attacked did and because you know out when now horforsign
or even when he was in, they're able to allow
Bam out of Baio to still protect the rim. Like
(18:15):
they kind of got the best of both worlds. They
didn't have to have their center come out and cover,
and they didn't expose their perimeter players who weren't great
defenders on the ball.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
It is, you know what, as a as a guy,
you who watches a lot of college basketball knows the
game way better than the collegey of it that I do.
I think it's always comical to watch NBA teams try
to like attack a zone when they when they rarely
see it, or go against it because you're just like
screaming at the TV of what to do, and they
never do it, moving moving the zone, side the side
(18:46):
and moving the ball and inevitably, like that's what Boston
did and that's why it was so successful. They they
tried to they tried to isolate individually and attack the zone.
The shotcock would run down and there was no time
left for two or three passes to move his own route.
And I think if that's one area that the Denver
is going to be able to do, and I'd to
(19:07):
be surprised if Miami is going to have much success
if they try to go that route, I would.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I would tend a tender grief. You let's go to
the Golden State Warriors. Bob Meyer's just worn out by
Joe lacap right, Like there's a story today, thirty texts
a day, thirty calls a day or whatever is it?
Why why step away?
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah? And I don't have any particular insight here, Like
I'm following the story and reading it just like everyone else.
Like I tend to just take him at his word.
That look, the spotlight that they've been under and what
he's done over the last twelve years there, you know,
takes a toll, and I could totally see him saying, look,
(19:53):
I still have a lot left in the tank and
a lot left to accomplish as an executive in the NBA,
and I know if I a year or two off,
I'm going to get to pick any situation I want
and compensation is not going to be an issue. And
just thinking that this is the right time. I don't
know if I'm going to read too much into it
in terms of the conflict or the you know, personalities,
(20:15):
you know, and butting heads with the owner. I just
tend to take him at his word that is look
a little burned out and I need some time and
I'm going to recharge and re emerge somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So what do you do with that roster? Right you
have Draymond with Steve Kerr said, hey, there's no championship
window if we don't have Draymond. Clearly he wants him back. Uh,
Clay wants an extension a year early. I don't know
how you feel about that. And then you have Jordan
Poole with a sizeable contract, who had a really disciplined
(20:46):
year obviously following the incident with Draymond.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Yeah, I think that the other element here is obviously
going to be the new CDA rules and just how
punitive it is to be above that second aprin and
and so you know, to me, I think it's well,
as long as you have step there, you bring Draymond back,
I think they're gonna have to pay to try to
(21:11):
get off pool. So I wouldn't be surprised if they
did that and then just tried to run it back
with the Big three and then supplementing with you know,
hopefully undrafted guys, older vets, cheap guys around the roster
and hoping that you can get it done that way.
But I don't I don't see any imminent breakup of
it this summer at all.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
All right, Lakers, it worked because they got Russell Westbrook
out of the building, but it didn't work. I don't
think if you bring back d' angelo Russell long term,
you got to have somebody else who's a playmaker shot creator.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
But yeah, well, I think I think Austin Reason is
that guy, and I think that that's going to be
the fascinating thing to watch, just because he could he
could be one of those guys that their teams go
and strug Sure, one of those funky contracts that we
saw with you know, guys like Tyler Johnson and those
guys back in.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
The day Poison Poison World contracts.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Right, poison, Yeah, exactly where you where you you know,
not to get into the captaindricacies, but it gets really,
it gets really expensive in the out years for a
team trying to match it. But but I agree, like
I think that with Lebron, well, like Lebron on the
floor is your playmaker. And what he's shown is that
(22:30):
number one, if you put size around him, they can
be an elite defensive team. And if you put shooting
around him and just maybe one other guy that if
the ball swings too can put it on the floor
and make a play, and you have two or three
other shooters, that they can be a competent offensive team
and a team that once you get in the playoffs,
(22:52):
can win games just because they can be dominant defensively
and he can carry a team on the offensive end.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
But I don't I don't think he's that guy anymore.
I don't think I mean, I just just like we're
talking again, we got to look forward one more year.
He's a year later, whether he comes off of surgery
or comes off of rehab of the foot, like the
likelihood is and he I mean, I don't even think
he knows it, right, That's why they wanted Westbrook. He
(23:17):
needs somebody else to create shots because he just can't.
And he can do it for a limited time, but
then at some point he runs out of gas doing it.
And even defensively, he's not the guy he used to be.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
No, no, no question about that. But I think that
with him, he's not going to have to play a
whole season, and you're going to see him strategically take
breaks throughout the season where maybe he's going to play
sixty games, right and be fressure ready to go. I
agree if you if you're making deep runs and you're
playing for Evinity game at some point, like he's going
(23:52):
to run out of gas. But he Yeah, I mean,
what did the average for the playoffs? He average twenty
five to nine to eight.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, look like he had forty in their last year,
had forty the last game, but they got swept. Yeah, right,
but they got swept. So uh, I just you know,
and and I and people like why does he go
down to the post he's never been crazy comfortable down there,
and when he does, he gets tired, as anybody who's
(24:22):
thirty eight thirty nine years old go to get to
get tired quicker. You know, uh, I think you.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Have no question that he's he's he's obviously he and
you just watch the games. He's much more comfortable, like
first of all, in transition attacking the rim, and then
second facing facing the defense and attacking and making plays.
And if you don't help, like he's just going to
physically still overpower GUIDs.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
All right. The coaching hires are interesting, Adrian Griffin, like
I would have thought Milwaukee will go with a guy
who had won a title, and there's several that are
out there. Instead Nick Nurse, who's won that title, he
goes to Philly. Griffin right now goes to goes to Milwaukee.
If your phoenix place you played place, you know well,
(25:08):
and you have two stars, you got to figure out
their roster. What you do with Chris Paul what you know,
you got it? What do you do with Deandreen? What
do you do with your Phoenix?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
I'm you know, and this is not a sexy name,
but I'm a big fan of Frank Bogul. I think
that he's a guy that you know is always going
to be well prepared, like you know, and the personnel
obviously makes the team, but what he was able to
do in LA with them on the defensive end of
the floor, I think no one could argue about his
(25:39):
ability to coach defense. And then I think that there's
just a temperament and personality aspect there where he's you know,
a little bit understated and he's not going to grate
on the nerves of stars with either being you know,
too emotional, too roller coaster of emotions. I think you
(26:00):
would be a good choice there. And he's Look, he's
not a guy that you win the press conference with,
but I think he's a guy that you look fifty
sixty games into the season and say, man, he's really
doing a good job with that team.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I tend to agree. I just I wonder if you
know you got the Isaiah Thomas factor in there. You've
got a new owner. Are they looking for a sexy name,
are they looking for a younger name. It's just you
really question it. Last thing, who do you think wins
the series?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (26:27):
Wow? I mean it's not an original answer, but I
just think Denver is just going to be a both
to even if they're average defensively, they're just going to
overwhelm Miami on the offensive. And and I think Miami
puts up a good fight, and I wouldn't surpriably, it'd
be surprised if they split a game in Denver and
went back and made a good run of it in
either game three or four. But I think it's ultimately
(26:48):
going to be Denver with just too much offensive firepower.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Actually I lied, that wasn't the last thing. Victor web Yama,
Victor Ebinyama, Okay, I know you haven't broken down all
the prospects, but like, he checks all these boxes, but
there's still so much unknown. You have people going, well,
if he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer, it's
a it's an underachievement, is there any way? If you're
(27:14):
San Antonio, you build a whole new team by trading him.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
Oh no, no, no chance, because you just have so
much control over over the next ten years of his career.
If he ends up being like a Hall of Fame
type player, and even if he's not a Hall of
Fame type player, like if he's an All NBA player,
and and you drafted a number one like you did
a pretty good job. And just the way that it
(27:41):
works with being able to extend guys and maintain control,
there's there's no chance that they hit the fast forward
button and try to try to do anything like that.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Pat, you're the best. Enjoy the finals, look for your
your next hit on Stadium. Thanks so much for joining us.
Thanks Doug all right, that's Pat Garretty for in front
office analyst for Stadium Sports.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Hey gagn This Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a mental
health podcast, and each week we try to help turn
our mental health issues into mental wealth, and we dive
in with everyone from a world of sports and entertainment
like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade, got Fiemi,
and also those who can help us in between the ears,
(28:26):
anyone from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for
John Gordon. So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer,
a mental health podcast on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Doug Ot leaving for cong It's the Herd. Fox Sports Radio,
iHeart Radio app Ooh, this is a good one. This
is a good one. Good one, right, don't you love
the juicy details of a breakup? What he say and
then what she say, and then what he say and
then what she say? Right? Well, well that's what we
have in the Athletic match. Schneedman covers the Packers for
(29:05):
The Athletic and he detailed the breakup and breakdown of
the relationship between Aaron Rodgers and Brian Goodkins, essentially Aaron
Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. He talked to Aaron
Rodgers like Aaron Rodgers kind of took him through what
happened after Jordan Love was drafted. For example, did I
(29:29):
want to Rogers said years down the line, go, well,
if we had just taken somebody who could impact our
team because we had just gone to the NFC championship game. Yeah,
of course Rogers said that the Packers isn't a draft Love.
I don't think any competitor would say anything different. So
Rogers is trying to make it out that it wasn't
that they drafted Jordan Love. It's that, hey, they just
went to the NFC Championship game. And everyone knows that
(29:51):
if you draft a quarterback like it's a in order
for him to play, Aaron has to sit. So and
that wasn't happening, And it was a future selection, so
he wouldn't, right, you know, he wouldn't. T Higgins for example,
was available, taken in the second round, I would have
helped the Green Bay Packers, According to a source associate
(30:14):
with the team who was granted anonymity to candidly discuss
the sensitive dynamics between the front office and the star quarterback,
early in the twenty twenty one off season, done rogers
agent called Mark Murphy to request one of two things,
trade Rogers or fire Brian Gounenkunz. Murphy did neither. Months later,
(30:37):
news broke that Rogers wanted out of Green Bay, but
the Packers held firm. It goes to the twenty twenty
one off season. Okay, so this is obviously not last year.
It's the previous year. Okay. So in the previous year,
remember that's when he was holding out. I was when
he didn't know if he wanted to come back. What
was going on. After the first practice of camp, Rogers
(31:02):
aired his grievances, saying he wanted changes to the organization's
communication and culture. According to Rogers, the communication between he
and Goodenkunst improved, but quote, it still wasn't anywhere near
what I've already enjoyed here with the Jets in just
a few short weeks. So the Jets in a new relationship,
they want to be open, honest, full lines of communication.
(31:26):
According to the source, the next offseason, this is the
last year's last offseason, the Packers weren't satisfied with Rogers'
commitment and effort right not only during voluntary OTAs, but
day to day basis afterwards. Rogers takes exception to the
thought that the team wanted more from him in the
months after giving him the richest contract in NFL history.
(31:49):
When I'm in, I'm all in. You just want to
ride or die with off season workouts. I won the
MVP without doing off season workouts. Like my commitment level
was any then, I'd say not at all. The way
I came back to work, not just physically in good shape,
(32:09):
but mentally refreshed is the thing that for me was
the reason I was able to have the season I
wanted to In Green Bay you fast forward to this
offseason and Good and Cunts and Rogers agreed to meet
in person in southern California, where Rogers lives. In the
off season. Good and Cunts was traveling in January to
the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl. They never connected. And this is
(32:32):
that story that many people have talked about, that there
was a disconnect because the Packers wouldn't FaceTime him. Quote,
I have zero or one bar at the house. This
is Aaron Rodgers. So you call me. Sometimes it goes through.
Most times it doesn't go through. Everybody who knows me
knows when I'm out west. They know how to get
(32:54):
a hold of me. So you can say whatever you want.
But that's the effing truth. Before I went into darkness,
I hit him up and said, here's some stuff swirling
around here. We should get together you me and Matt.
Did Brian text me more than I text him? Yeah?
But did I gohost him? No? I texted him back
and there was back and forth that we had. And
(33:16):
so this is the story that you want to go with.
You're gonna stand on this hill of austerity and say, arguably,
in the conversation, the best player in your franchise history.
You're gonna say, I couldn't get a hold of him
and that's why we had to move on. Like, come on,
just tell the truth. You want to move on. You
didn't like the fact that we didn't communicate all the time. Listen,
(33:36):
I talk to the people that I like. I mean,
Aaron Rodgers contradicts himself and tells you who he really
is in all of these statements. Like first, he's like, look, man,
I want open lines of communication. They won't try to
communicate with you. You didn't want to communicate back with them,
And your defense is I communicate all the time with
(33:57):
the people I like. I didn't like Brian Goodecuns. I
didn't like him, And so there was this thing was
over two years ago, three years ago when they drafted
Jordan Love. There's no way you can read this article
in which Aaron Rodgers defends they wanted me to show
up for OTAs I need to be refreshed, like it's
not all about you. Rogers is probably right. It probably
(34:21):
is refreshing to get away, to go on a trip,
to go hiking, to go find yourself. But when you're
trying to involve new wide receivers, and have a new
connection and be one with the team and be connected.
You got to be there. You got to be there.
(34:42):
It's like they say about parenting. Most important thing about parenting,
it's just showing up. Most important thing about relationships is
open lines of communication. And Rogers saying I want to communicate,
but I communicate plenty with the people I like, tells
you he didn't like Brian cunnikins, so he communicated as
much as was needed in order to keep the h
(35:03):
in order to keep some form of relationship going.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
One More Heard. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.