Best of The Herd

In this Best Of The Herd, Jason McIntyre—in for Colin—dissects some Packer front office drama that former Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers recently divulged to the media, and offers some supportive context for Rodgers. Plus, Top 10 NFL teams under the most Super Bowl pressure. Also, FOX Sports NBA analyst Ric Bucher joins The Herd to opine on the remaining championship window for the Boston Celtics, Golden State General Manager Bob Myers' resignation, and Heat-Nuggets in the NBA Finals. Finally, Albert Breer, NFL Reporter for THEMMQB.com, drops by The Herd to look at some potential landing spots for free agent wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins, one NFL playoff team from '22-'23 that is flying under the radar heading into training camp, expectations for New England quarterback Mac Jones, and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern, nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowherd
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Welcome to the Herd.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
It's me Jason McIntyre in for vacationing Colin Cowherd.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I believe he is.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
On maybe a I don't even know what the word
is for, but he's somewhere in Iceland enjoying a nice respite.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm joined today by Alex Curry. Alex, how you doing.
I'm doing great. How was Paris?

Speaker 5 (00:47):
You were also vacation jmag Yes, one of my favorite places.
I got to spend like six weeks there for the
World Cup in twenty nineteen, so tell me goodness favorite part.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
I got less than a week there, but it was incredible.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Uh, arc Treof was amazing, The Eiffel Tower was decent,
the flaunt, the people, the vibes, the energy, culture list.
I mean, Paris probably now on my favorite cities would
have to be after New York in the world that
I've been.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
To as just traveling. Are you a traveler?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
You know? I actually have in the open that I'm
gonna say. It's tough to travel when you're doing the
sports stuff. You can't travel during football season. It's kind
of relegated to summer when all the tourists are out.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
It's difficult.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
But we got one in during the NBA playoffs, and yeah,
it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
It's good to be back.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Obviously, the calendar says June first, and Alex, I don't
know if you know.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
June first a big day for me.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Seven years ago today we moved the family from Pennsylvania
out west. So this is my seven year anniversary at Fox.
Very exciting. And you moved to my hometown I did. Yeah,
we're enjoying the South Bay greatly. While I was on vacation. Obviously,
you know, some NBA happenings occurred, and we'll get to
the NBA Finals. Obviously, Nuggets versus the Heat. I thought

(02:01):
it was gonna be Celtics. We'll get to that shortly.
Couple a couple of good wagers in play for the series,
But I do want to start with a big kind
of bombshell that dropped in the NFL. You know, sometimes
when you get new information, you've got to change the
way you look at a story.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
And for the longest time, Aaron Rodgers had kind of.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Been wacky guy, you know, issues with his family, jetting
around between celebrities, and just kind of one of these
guys that we couldn't really.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Get a handle on.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
And now you've got a big story that dropped. The
Athletic had it that Aaron Rodgers back in twenty twenty
one tried to fire his GM Brian Gutkuanz, who had
been with the organization for twenty years. Now, Obviously, you
know when you get somebody who's been with the organization
that long. I believe he had been GM since twenty eighteen,
you need some context. So why would Rogers want this

(02:48):
guy out? Why would he do that? Why would he
push a power play? And I think the answer is simple,
And you've got to, you know, look around the league,
and you've got to look.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
In your own life and say, wow, you know, maybe
I agree with him.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
So the context is in twenty twenty Aaron Rodgers coming
off a good year. They went thirteen and three in
twenty nineteen, and the Packers decide lo and behold, we're
gonna not help out the defense, which just got shredded
by the forty nine Ers in the NFC title game.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
They lost thirty seven to twenty.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
The Niners memorably had like eight pass attempts in the
entire game. And the Packers, you know, they could draft
defense to bolster the roster, and Aaron Rodgers get scored
from his agent. They traded up for a quarterback and
Rogers kind of went into a tail spin. And I
don't think you can blame him. Ladies and gentlemen, just
think about this briefly. You have your job wherever you do.
Maybe you're banging out TPS reports in the office or

(03:35):
wherever you work, and all of a sudden, one day
your boss comes to you and says, hey, we just hired.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
This new guy.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
I want you to introduce so I want you to
kind of mentor him, and I want you to tutor him.
And you look up this new gentleman who was hired
and you're like, Wow, this guy's kind of on the
same track that I am.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
He's kind of in my role. Did they just hire
my replacement?

Speaker 4 (03:56):
And you know, Aaron Rodgers looks in the mirror says, wait,
I'm in my mid thirties. You guys just drafted a
quarterback who was mediocre at best in college. And let's
be real, Jordan Love I think his highlight was leading
the country in interceptions his final year in college. And
Aaron Rodgers was ticked off. And this can go one
or two ways when this kind of thing happens. You know,
you could do door number one. Hey, I'm gonna be

(04:17):
motivated and I'm gonna kick button. I'm gonna show them.
Or you could go number two and say, hey, this
is unacceptable. I've been with the company for a decade. Okay,
I'm your guy. Blood, sweat and tears poured into this organization.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
I'm out. And you could reach out around the league
or in your job.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
You could reach out in your landscape of work and say, hey,
I need a new job. I'm getting out of here.
And it's funny, but we have seen this before, ladies
and gentlemen. High profile quarterback mid thirties had a good
but not great year, and they went and drafted his replacement.
Let me introduce you to Tom Brady and the New
England Patriots, who could forget twenty fourteen, The Patriots go

(04:57):
and draft Jimmy Garoppolo, a little known quarterback.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
It was not a trade up in the first round.
I believe he went second round.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
And the context here is I was at that NFL
combine right before Garppolo was drafted, and there was some buzz. Yeah,
Garoppolo could be interesting, but Patriots with Brady locked in,
and you know what Tom Brady did, of course memorably
took it as motivation, said you're gonna draft my replacement.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Tom Brady went on to win the Super Bowl the
next year.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Remember the awesome Super Bowl he had against Seattle where
he drove the length of the field twice in the
fourth quarter against the best defense in the league, the
Legion of Boom, and the Patriots win Brady Super Bowl MVP.
He showed them, He showed Belichick, Hey, you're gonna draft
my replacement, And of course Brady went on to win
another Super Bowl. Patriots capitulated and said, okay, fine, fine,
we messed up.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
We'll ship Garoppolo out of town. That was not good
enough for Brady.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, everybody knows He ended up leaving to go to Tampa,
where he won another Super Bowl. And then he really
showed Bill Belichick how he missed. Hey, makes just a
catastrophic mistake drafting Garoppolo. And now you look at Aaron
Rodgers and folks, let's be real. Aaron Rodgers used it
as motivation. The year after Jordan Love was drafted. What
did Rogers do? He through forty eight touchdown passes, nearly

(06:09):
doubled his output from the year prior motivation, You're drafted
my replacement, bleep off. Brian gudakunzt I'm gonna go win
an MVP. And then the year after he won another one.
But the problem here is he tried to get gudacunt fired,
according to the story, and the Packers refuse to do it.
Now that's where it gets icy. The Patriots said we
will trade Garoppolo. The Packers they refused to trade Jordan Love.

(06:34):
Aaron Rodgers unhappy, Aaron Rodgers forced his way out. Can
you blame him? Just think about it for a moment.
Can you really blame Aaron Rodgers for demanding the fire
the GM It doesn't happen. And then Aaron Rodgers Bailey
I think this story coming out now, what a couple
weeks three weeks after the Jets land Aaron Rodgers in

(06:57):
what everybody thinks is like a massive win. Jets finally
have a franchise quarterback, and everybody's questioned, well, Aaron Rodgers
as a wacky guy. He went on to Darkness Retreat. Okay,
he's going to Taylor Swift concerts in New York now
with the guy from Top Gun, Maverick Miles Teller his
actor buddy.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
This is a This is a new Aaron Rodgers as.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
A Jets fan, and everybody knows I'm born in New York,
massive Jets fan. I think you've got to look at this, like,
wait a minute, Maybe Rogers isn't that wacky dude who
goes from dating celebrities to having issues with his family
and his brother.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
Maybe this is like a genuine.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
I'm ticked off at a franchise I poured my life
into for a decade, I would stand out in the community.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I was a leader on.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
The field, as a leader not always but occasionally off
the field, and you're gonna kick me to the curb
in my mid thirties for my replacement, Like, how do
you expect him to respond. I think it's a normal
reaction that Tom Brady had in New England and that
now Aaron Rodgers had in Green Bay. And the Packers, well,

(08:04):
they're up the creek without a paddle. They now have
to hope that Jordan Love is their guy replacing Rogers.
In folks, this is going to reflect poorly on the
GM if Jordan Love is not able to deliver. Meanwhile,
Aaron Rodgers, you gotta be excited if you're a Jets fan.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Now.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
I know the deal is kind of front loaded, and
if he doesn't play enough games or snaps or whatever
it is, then yeah, maybe he steps away and the
Packers don't get a number one pick. But if you're
a Jets fan, I think you've got to be excited
that perhaps this is a motivated Rogers. Maybe he's going
to be as motivated as Brady was to go to
Tampa and win a Super Bowl. And you know, last

(08:41):
week Colin alluded to Rogers looking younger and more into almost.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
A different guy.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
He's a different dude in New York because he's away
from that toxic environment where he wanted the GM fired.
The GM would not fire him or the president would
not fire the GM and Rogers is kind of like
stuck in no man's lid. I'm delivering. I got you
guys two MVP awards. I put us in position to
win the super Bowl. I know he didn't deliver that.
He didn't actually win the Super Bowl. And you can

(09:08):
go back to that tough inside the ten play where
he could have maybe run in the NFC Championship game
against the Bucks, he could have maybe run for the touchdown,
did not quite get there.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
They opt to kick the field goal. You know, that's history.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
But if you're a Jets fan, this is a great day,
feeling that, wow, we could have Aaron Rodgers, not one year,
but maybe two years.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
We don't have to worry about that Zach Wilson nonsense.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
But I will say this whole idea of trying to
move on from a superstar. I did some reading on
vacation and I came across this Russian proverb where you
try to wash the bear without making him angry. And
you know that, of course is impossible to wash him.
Get a bear's for wet and he's not gonna get angry.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
That's impossible. It is extremely difficult to do that we've.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
Got a franchise quarterback. He's getting up there in age
and we do want to move on. How do you
delicately do it? You know, we saw this with the
Golden State Warriors, ladies and gentlemen, James Wiseman, Jordan Poole,
Jonathan Kaminga. How tough was that season? It just happens,
Steve Current, Raymond Green, Yeah, the punch kind of ruined it.
Jordan Poole, We gave him the big contract. Now Klay
Thompson's all worried is he gonna get paid? Draymond's upset

(10:16):
that maybe Jordan Pool's the new Clay. Jordan Pool's running
his mouth. It is extremely challenging for these organizations to
have a franchise guy and pivot to the next generation
without falling off a cliff. I'll go back to Dan
Marino memorably in Miami. They had their guy, they get
to a Super Bowl, never got back there again. Had
Dan Marino for fifteen years. You got your franchise quarterback,

(10:40):
you lose him, and now you're in the wilderness. The
Miami Dolphins haven't done Jack squat since losing Marino, and
I don't want to be too negative here on the Packers.
But actions speak louder than words, and their actions towards
the Jordan Love contract not great.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
They did not do the fifth year option.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
They give him an incentive laden one year extension. It
almost reads as if they're not sure Jordan loves the guy.
And now will Green Bay be in the wilderness looking
to replace far and then Rogers and then forever. It's
going to be extremely difficult, so very challenging for the Packers,
very optimistic for my jets. Right, we got a big, big,

(11:21):
big show today, A couple of great guests. We're gonna
get to DeAndre Hopkins landing spots with Albert Breer, Eric Mangini,
got Rick Buker.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
My guy stopping by.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
We will talk about those Warriors, a couple of head
coaching moves in the NBA. Alex should be a good one.
NBA Finals game one tonight. People will give away our
picks yet, Right, it's.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
Too early, show, But I mean June first, your anniversary
of moving to the West Coast. NBA Finals starting today.
It's a big it's a big celebration day.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
You got a monster show today, Yes, yes, be sure
to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon
Eastern not a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the Hard Radio app.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Welcome back Hour number two on The Herd.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's me Jason McIntyre in for Colin Coward, joined by
Alex Hurry.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Alex, he made it through one hour two to go.

Speaker 5 (12:14):
When did you actually get back from Paris as a
jetlag actually hit you?

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yet? Not yet? Not yet.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
I've got a good night's sleep, I slept a little
bit on the plane and just right back.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Into the takes. It's kind of like what you have
to do.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
It's like just keep rolling, don't don't allow yourself to
think about what time it is like back in Paris.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Like I'm here, I'm delirious.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, we're gonna do it, Yes, and we're gonna We
got a great guest coming up, Rick Buker joining the
show in a few minutes. But first, you know, listen,
I started looking at the NFL landscape for this year,
and there's certainly some teams and coaches who are under
massive pressure this year to win.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
So I got a top ten list for you. We'll
count down ten to one.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
The teams are the most pressure in the NFL this season.
Let's get it started.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Number ten.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
I'm starting with the Cleveland Browns at ten. Yes, some
weird expectations in Vegas for the Brownsers win total was
a little higher than expected. Deshaun Watson, as Mangini just
told you, has a year under his belt to get acclimated.
And oh, by the way, Kevin Stefanski, the pressure's on.
This is year four, your one. He goes to the
playoffs and wins a game, then they regress, then they

(13:15):
regress more. He's got to get to the playoffs and win.
I think he's got to get to the super Bowl,
probably to keep everybody happy in Cleveland. A lot of
pressure on the Cleveland Browns this year, starting at number ten,
number nine, number nine, number nine. The Baltimore Ravens. Listen,
I know we all love Lamar Jackson. I've defended him
on the show. A ton got one playoff win. They

(13:38):
just gave him all of the money. They added Odell Beckham.
This is the best receiving locker room that Lamar Jackson
has had in Baltimore. They got a new OC there's
a lot of newness. I'm not as bullish on them
this year. I think there is a lot of pressure
though on this team to kind of get back. Lamar's
got to stay healthy. He just got a fat contract.
Ravens checking in.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
At number nine.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Eight.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Here we go Denver, broncos My guy, Sean Payton. We
miss him on the herd, but he's got bigger fish
to fry and vet Denver.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Listen, Russell Wilson.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
We could be honest, he wasn't good last year. Massive regression.
We can blame it on Hacket if we want to.
We can blame it on him acclimating in his first
year in Denver. But the Cole reality is you bring
in an offensive minded coach and what was.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
His first move.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
Let's bring in a good backup quarterback Jared Sidham who
proved a lot with the Raiders. And I just wonder, folks,
how much pressure is on Russell Wilson and Sean Payton
to really make a deep run and get to the
super Bowl. Folks, if they don't make the playoffs, I
think we could seriously look at Russell Wilson as being
on the move elsewhere in Denver.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Number seven.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Ah, yes, here we go, number seven.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
I know my Los Angeles friends are not gonna like this,
but I have the Rams at seven.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Okay, let's remember.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
Aaron Donald nearly retired after the Super Bowl, Matt Stafford
coming off of major surgery. There were questions, do the
Rams move on from him? And oh, by the way,
they're coach McVeigh came super close to retiring. They trade
away Jalen Ramsey. Look at the defensive depth chart.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
For this team.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
You got a bunch of dudes like I've never heard of.
I don't know this team could stop anybody. We'll see
what Stafford has left in the tank. It's a very
thin roster. And folks, if they missed the playoffs, remember
they were Super Bowl winners and then the worst drop
off from a Super Bowl winner, I believe. Ever, what
if they miss the playoffs again? What's gonna happen?

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Does McVeigh say, I'm out? Does Aaron Donald check out?
I think the.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Rams have massive pressure this season. Number six, Let's go
back to the AFC. The Miami Dolphins a team I
can't stand. They got some pressure. Listen, you don't go
all in and pick up Jalen Ramsey and expect no pressure.
Remember last year, Tyreek Hill, this year Jalen Ramsey. Oh,
by the way, what's Tua's future. Like everybody gave McDaniel

(15:54):
the genius label, and I'm not banging about McDaniel was
like excellent last year, but they have a loaded, top
heavy R and a lot of questions at quarterback. If
two can't stay healthy and avoid the concussions. Financially they're
all in. I mean, you could luck. I got to
love their roster. They got talent, but they also got
to win. I think Super Bowl or bust for the
Miami Dolphins. Number five, let's go back to San Francisco. Listen.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I talked about it with Eric Mangini. This is a
team they got some issues.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
I know they were close last year with Brock Purty,
but let's remember they traded up for Trey Lance.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
There is not a lot of wiggle room.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
If this team all of a sudden regresses to say,
nine wins, you're gonna start having questions. Boy, can Shanahan
ever win the big one? What the hell were they
doing trading up for Trey Lance? And then you gotta start,
you know, thinking, like, is Brock.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
Purty the guy? If there's regression? I like Purty a lot.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
I don't think regression happens, but there is pressure in
San Francisco to get to a super Bowl. They've come
up short now twice in the Shanahan era. Number four,
let's go to the Dallas Cowboys. Everybody loves talking about
the Cowboys, folks, when you dump your OC and your
defensive quarter now and out two off seasons, has gone

(17:03):
around hunting for jobs, and you got McCarthy, who's like,
I got the offense.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Now you got Dak Prescott kind of the offense.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Jeke is gone, Like, I don't know who else you're
gonna blame if this team doesn't deliver. Dallas is as
good defensively as they've ever been, but we know offense
matters more in this league. I think there's a lot
of pressure on Dallas and folks, it's not that out
of a take, but there's a world where this team
misses the playoffs and McCarthy's gone, and then do you
elevate Quinn and what do you do? It could go sideways.

(17:33):
A lot of pressure on the Dallas Cowboys heading into
the season.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Number three.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Ah, yes, my.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
New York Jets. I'm trying to crowbar them into every
segment on the show. Obviously, listen, there's obviously pressure Sala.
We know he needs to win playoffs or you're fired, GM,
Joe Douglas, you better get to the playoffs or you're fired.
Aaron Rodgers, playoffs would be nice. You gotta get to
a super Bowl, buddy, you gotta get.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Back to a super Bowl. Rodgers, you just have to.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
I know it's your first year, you got to young team,
You're in a leadership role. I do believe Aaron Rodgers
is motivated, as I said at the outside of the show,
motivated to do what Brady did. Leave the place that
didn't totally love you or respect You draft it over
your head.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
And you want to leave and win a Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
A lot of pressure on Aaron Rodgers at the guys
in the front office and coaches. They're also worried about
this season. Number two Colin Cowherd loves Justin Herbert more
than any player in the league possibly.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
And the Chargers.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
I know some people are gonna say, WHOA can they
win a playoff game?

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah? Can they? Please? Seriously, Brandon Staley, how many more
chances is he going to get? They bring in a
new OC.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
And Kellim Moore, and you gotta wonder, like, all right,
you know we came up a little short in the
playoffs against the Jags after blowing a massive lead.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Will change out the OC?

Speaker 4 (18:50):
What do you change out if you don't win a
playoff game or maybe make a deep playoff run. Well,
it's got to be the head coach. And you're paying
Justin Herbert, so he's no longer on the rookie deal.
A lot of pressure on the charge number one. Yes,
you knew it was coming, ladies and gentlemen. The Buffalo
Bills last year went into the season super Bowl favorites,
Josh Allen MVP favorite. They won a lot of games

(19:13):
and what happened in the playoffs they crept out once again.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
The Buffalo Bills are teetering. This is a massive season.
I see the big.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Story this week.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Josh Allen's now got a new girlfriend. He's dating an actress.
Great congratulations, Josh Allen. What are you gonna do with
the Hopkins situation? You gonna go get him. Stefan Diggs
doesn't seem particularly happy, or maybe he's just old and krabby.
Buffalo really laid an egg at home in the playoffs
last year, and folks, there is more pressure on the
Bills to get to the Super Bowl than any other

(19:42):
team in the NFL. All right, let's get to our guest,
Rick Buker, NBA analyst for Fox. Here's the man, the myth,
the legend, Eric Love talking good talks with Rick Buker.
Some breaking news just before you came on. Well it's
not huge, but Brad Stevens gave more than a vote

(20:05):
of confidence to Joe Missoula, his head coach, say he
will be back.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
You were not particularly surprised by that.

Speaker 6 (20:10):
No, I think I was on with Colin a couple
of weeks ago, right after they fell down three to
zero and said that I didn't see them making a change.
It's not the way the Boston Celtics operate and generally
talk a lot about making changes and then don't. But
with Brad Stevens being a former head coach, I figured
he would have a certain amount of sympathy for Joe
Mizzula stepping into that seat for the first time. And look,

(20:33):
they've they've been churning the head coaching position a little
bit here over the last couple of years. They might
want a little stability.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
Let's stay with the Celtics real quick, Jaalen Brown eight baskets,
eight turnovers.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
In Game seven.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah, all NBA team looking at a super Max. Yeah,
I think it's a no brainer. I think you get
him together and keep the continuity.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Other people not so much.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
But I'll say this, Rick, is it easier to unload
him now?

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Or you've given the supermacs and you give it another
year and then you offload them because the market opens
up a lot more teams willing to trade for Jalen
Brown with three or four years left on his deal.
Maybe some an Orlando would be interested. I'm just throwing
out of land because that's what people do. Or Endo
magic well.

Speaker 6 (21:17):
In general, if you have a guy signed up long term,
it opens up your possibility of being able to deal
with because people know what they're getting and they know
how long they're going to have it. So it is
a tricky proposition for all. I mean everybody. After the loss,
everybody was like, you got to break up Tatum and
Brown and you got to change things up. And being

(21:40):
the Boston Celtics where the bar is set winning championships,
I'm not mad.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
At that logic.

Speaker 6 (21:46):
I also understand the other side of it, though, which
is they've had this unbelievable success. These guys are twenty five,
twenty six years old, and so do your risk. God,
here's the problem, and it is because of the super Max.
It is because of the the the success individual success
those two guys have had. If you pay Brown and Tatum,

(22:11):
that's your pay, Like they've got to get you there now,
and the supporting cast that you have now you're not
going to.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Be able to afford.

Speaker 6 (22:20):
So if you believe that these guys can elevate themselves
and they can make other guys better as opposed to
getting better guys to make them better, then I say
go ahead, pay them. That's where you place your bet.
I'm not convinced in the same way that when we
looked at Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, like we're like

(22:42):
two great individual talents, But can that combination win you
a championship or is there always a little bit of
friction there because of just the dynamics of how they play.
That's what I see in Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown.
So if you're happy, just like you always going to
the playoffs, which a lot of teams would take. What
Boston Celtics have had. If you're happy with that, then

(23:05):
load up on them and you know that you're guaranteed
to be good.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
There was also some duplication with Lebron and Wade, not
total duplication, but they also had Bosh to blame all
he was the fall guy anytime things went right a lot.
I had Bosh come on, hey, you're not doing anything well.

Speaker 6 (23:20):
But there was also like Lebron was at heart a
playmaker and Dwayne Wade at heart is a shooting guard.
And they also had a very unique relationship where Dwayne
Wade was going to push Lebron James. This is one
of my issues with Jason and Jalen, like who's the

(23:43):
driving force there? Are they making each other better? I
know they like each other, I know they work out
with each other. I know they're both hard workers.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
But is there.

Speaker 6 (23:50):
Somebody who's saying, hey, you're not good enough right now,
you're not playing well enough right now? Do they have
the ability to say that to each other? And and more?
And I just haven't seen that.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Do you think Brad Stevens would do this often rumored
deal Jalen Brown for Jalen Brown and something for Damian
Lillard and something.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
I do not see that. I do not see that happening.

Speaker 6 (24:14):
The difficulty is, and again, much like Katie and Russ,
like Jason Tatum has been anointed the best player and
talent wise, I don't argue with that, but Jalen Brown
is the more aggressive, plays and acts like a number one.
So how do you get around that conundrum? And that

(24:34):
for me is you take the risk. If you want
to play for championships, you got to break that up
and you got to come up with a different formula.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
We'll get to the finals in a second. I want
to go to the Suns. They still don't have a coach.
Unless it happened in the last thirty seconds, coaching Booker
and Durant, you would think that's more appealing than going
to Philly, or you'd think that's more appealing the Bucks,
both who have major questions this offseason, like why is
his job not field?

Speaker 3 (25:00):
What are you hearing?

Speaker 6 (25:02):
I I haven't heard a word about who they might
be going after at this point, but I think they're
One of the reasons that they haven't been aggressive and
going out and getting somebody is because there's still another
shooter drop, which is, what are you gonna do with
DeAndre Ayden, like they have to make that move before

(25:23):
they can do anything else.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
And one of the interesting rumors that I've heard, Oh
here we go.

Speaker 6 (25:30):
Yeah, I wasn't gonna save this, but you know what
this is for you is the idea of trading DeAndre
Ayton to the Dallas Mavericks for Kyrie. That that more
so than seeing Kyrie go to the Lakers, it makes
a ton of sense. I well, certainly for the for

(25:52):
the Dallas Mavericks.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Getting DeAndre Ayton.

Speaker 6 (25:55):
Oh, DeAndre Ayton next to Luka Dantis makes a lot
more sense than Kyrie Irving.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
One.

Speaker 6 (26:00):
You've got a little You've got you've got a rim protector,
you've got some size, you have a guy who's happily
being the number two that doesn't need the ball to operate.
And it validates having traded Dorian Finney Smith in the
pieces that they sent and Spencer Dinwittie and the picks
to the Brooklyn Nets, because you couldn't get DeAndrea Ayton

(26:21):
for Dorian Finney Smith and Spencer Dinwitty and what they
sent to the Nets. So getting Kyrie Irving now becomes oh,
but look, we got DeAndrea Ayton. So again just a rumor,
not reporting that it's going to happen. But to me,
it makes a lot of sense for both sides, and
Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving reunited and as we've seen.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
That worked out so well. It just worked out swimmingly
in Brooklyn. I'm not saying.

Speaker 6 (26:47):
I'm not saying that I would do it, but Matt
Matt Ishbi, the new owner, has demonstrated that he likes
to swing for the fences, and this would certainly be if.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
You thought that was the least likable team in the
league before are they keeping Chris Paul in the scenario?

Speaker 6 (26:59):
By the way, uh no, I believe you. I don't
know that you could keep Chris Paul in that.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
I think that would be the least likable team in
the in the league. I mean, Devin Booker is so mouthy.
I mean, you know Cole and then Kyrie Irving, who
knows when he's showing up.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
I shouldn't bash.

Speaker 6 (27:14):
I will say the reality, it's difficult to know how
to interpret it. But kicking Manny Williams to the curb
and the unbothered by Devin Booker that that didn't that
I'm not one hundred percent sure what he meant, but
not knowing what he meant. I don't feel good about
monniy Williams didn't deserve that. Whatever happened, he didn't deserve that.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
All right, One last one before the finals, Bob Myers
steps down.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, or was pushed out? I don't know. He was
really unclear. Definitely not pushed out. He had an offer
on the table. Oh yeah, okay, he no, he could
have stayed. So it was the worst.

Speaker 6 (27:51):
It was the worst kept rumor that he was looking
to leave because he was just he was worn out.
And he also faced the very focal proposition of you're
going to have to break up the Big Three, and
he came in and grew up and won championships with
these guys, and most gms take the approach I'm not

(28:12):
going to have a relationship with my players because I'm
going to get to a point where I have to
trade them and I need to be cold hearted about it.
And Bob decided I'm not gonna do that, and it
served them well because when things flared up between Steve
Kerr and Draymond Green, or Draymond and Jordan Poole or whatever,
all of the and half a dozen other things that

(28:33):
haven't been reported. He was able to go to those
players and say, hey, we gotta get got to we
have to resolve this. Well, the downside of it is
now you're at a point where you got to look
at Steph Curry and say, yeah, I just traded Klay
Thompson and Draymond Green and Bob said I'd rather spend
time with my kids and I didn't have to do that.

Speaker 4 (28:53):
It feels like a massive undertaking. This is not I
don't think it's a great job. I know that sounds crazy.
I don't think it's a great job right.

Speaker 6 (28:58):
Now I would agree with because the bar is set
so high and people don't want people. Look there's I'm
working with people here who believe that as long as
you have Steph and Clay and Drey and Steve Kerr,
they're still going to be a championship contender.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah. By that I do not.

Speaker 6 (29:21):
I don't seeing Clay. Look, Clay's not Clay anymore, Derey's
not Drey anymore. And the championship teams that they have
remember strengthen numbers like they don't have that same depth.
Can they reinvent themselves? Around Steph Curry. Yes, I believe
they can, but there's a lot of work to be done.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
All right, Finals, everybody in their mom is picking Denver.
They are the third largest favorite in the last twenty years.
Miami obviously, seven game series grueling exhausts Jimmy Butler. By
the way, I know people aren't talking about it. Rick
last four games against Boston, he shot like thirty five percent. Ye,
he's tired, he's exhausted. Now you've got to go to altitude.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
You've had diminishing returns for sure.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
At nine points spread tonight, is there any case that
the Heat can win this series? Like?

Speaker 3 (30:06):
What is that? Like? They have nobody to guard Yokic.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Obviously they ain't gonna guard them, Like, remember Anthony Davis
could not cart him.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
I just I can't.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
I don't know what the path to victory here is
unless they keep making threes, which is unsustainable.

Speaker 6 (30:18):
Well, yeah, so look, we didn't expect them to beat
the Bucks, the Knicks with the one team I expected
them to beat. I didn't expect them initially to beat Boston,
and then when the way Boston came out, I changed
my tune. My heart wants Miami to at least be

(30:41):
competitive in this series, and I would love to see
them get rewarded for what they are.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
It's like rooting for Seabiscuit against war Admiral. Look, but
it's a horse racing reference.

Speaker 6 (30:51):
But the fact is the zone is what killed Boston
Nikola jokicch You put him in the middle of the
zone and you have guys cutting and the shooters that
they have that ain't gonna work against Denver, and so
I just don't I wish I saw a path to

(31:12):
Miami pulling an upset or being formidable. I just don't
see it. So I'm with the majority the masses.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
I saw a stat where they played eleven possessions of
zone this season against the Nuggets that he did, and
the Nuggets scored nineteen points, which is not bad.

Speaker 7 (31:29):
Now.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
The one bet that I do kind of like here
is like, do you think Spultro, who's a great coach,
goes all in and says we're stopping Jokic, or do
you think the strategy is we're gonna let Yokic get
fifty three like he did against the Sons and the loss.
We're not letting Jamal Murray and Michael Porter and those
guys go off from deep and that's our best path.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Do you think that they.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
Let Yokich eat That would be my strategy, Okay, because
one it's going to test his endurance.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
And two.

Speaker 6 (31:56):
The one thing that Jokic showed me more of this year,
but that I haven't considered distantly seen, which is why
he was never my MVP at the top of my
MVP ballot, is because he rather be a facilitator. He
rather get everybody involved. If you said, you know what,
go get fifty and beat me, I don't know that

(32:16):
he would consistently do that. It's just not It's a
little bit like Lebron James. He feels like, I want
to play the game, I want to get everybody involved.
I don't want to dominate the ball So I look,
as I said, he's done more of that this year,
which is why I considered putting him at the top
of my ballot for the first time this year. But

(32:37):
there was time I saw a regression through these playoffs
where it was like, Yokich, this is your time to
press the issue, this is your time to impose your will.
Don't lay back, and he was still he was relying
on Jamal Murray happy to set screens and hand it
off and he's just too good and he was too
big in the last series not to do that.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
I'm work shopping take here on just the idea that
centers are back in.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
On his show, so like, hey, I'm just trying out
some new new material that centers are kind of back
in vogue. Yoka.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Remember the last center to be a centerpiece on an
NBA Finals team was was who it would be?

Speaker 3 (33:18):
You want to go Duncan?

Speaker 4 (33:18):
You want to go shack, But yeah, you could go
Duncan and it wouldn't be shacked with the Heat, it
would be shacked with the Lakers. I just wonder, like
Jokic center, I mean, he's best player in the league
and and Rick there is something to the analytics revolution
going on in the league. And Miami Heat are anti analytics.
They couldn't make threes all season. Now they make all

(33:39):
of them. They got undrafted players scoring fifty two percent
of their points against Boston.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
That's unheard of.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
Like what is happening or is this just a wacky
outlier of a season.

Speaker 6 (33:47):
No, I think it's I think it's a natural evolution
because I when we say centers it's not traditional center.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
These guys aren't on the.

Speaker 6 (33:55):
Block right right, It's it's it's really they've We've just
gotten taller and heavier and stronger. And but if you
can't shoot a three, you're not playing a five. I mean,
Jokic Embiid. You have to be able to shoot the three,
and most of these guys are operating from the high
post are beyond. So yes, big I would say big

(34:20):
men are back in vogue. But it's simply a byproduct
of like we've seen the six, nine, six ten guys
becoming guards and point forwards and all of that. So
now we've what we're getting is we're getting point We're
getting point centers. That's what we're getting.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
The other half of this would be the AAU culture.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
I know, we talked about this for a while. Your
kid played AAU. My son asked, like, it's just not working.
I don't think in America.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
And you look at the league and how these Europeans
are coming in and totally dominating Rick. You go back
twenty twenty five thirty years, it was like barely any
non Americans on the all NBA teams. Now the MVPs
are almost all did not play high school basketball here.
I know MB did a little bit, but then you
look at one Bin Yama number one pick, he didn't
play here. And you look at twenty twenty four because

(35:08):
I do that because I'm a nerd. Yeah, three of
the top five guys European. Like something's there's a there's
a shift going on. I know it's been happening for
a while, but people aren't really talking about this. It's
happening in baseball if you look at like how many
players or Latin versus it's starting to grow.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
It's happening in the NBA, But does the league do
you think cares?

Speaker 4 (35:27):
And I just I know that's a wacky question, but
we look at interest in Jokic versus the heat and
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (35:34):
Continue, Yeah, no, I think there is an element there.
I don't think that US basketball fans embrace international play,
Like for all that Giannis has done and for as
great a personality as he is, he's not embraced the
way staff for Lebron are. He's just not. And that's
not I mean, that's just the reality. So I think

(35:55):
there is that little bit of disconnect and US basketball
fans don't want to hear this. They don't want to
hear what you just brought up, which is which is
spot on. We're we're looking at the possibility that a
Canadian and a Serb are going to dominate the NBA
finals and win a championship.

Speaker 7 (36:10):
Here like.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
The best the best American player we have in this
series is Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler, not to take anything
away from him, but that to your point, like that's
where it's trending.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Star recruit.

Speaker 6 (36:25):
The Canadian basketball program has been has evolved mightily. What
they're doing in Europe. They're killing us because AAU the
coaching has fallen off dally.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
There's like a capitalism thing going on where you can
make a lot of money in AU basketball.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
But are the kids learning and now we're running precent
NBA really good? H love your stuff, Rick, Thanks for
coming on My pleasure.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Easter not a Empacific.

Speaker 8 (36:59):
Hey Gag mis Jay host of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast,
and each week we try to help turn our mental
health issues into mental wealth and we dive in with
everyone from a world of sports and entertainment. Like Sean McVay,
Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade, got Fiemi, and also
those who can help us in between the ears, anyone

(37:19):
from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for John Gordon.
So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a
mental health podcast on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get podcasts.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
All right, let's bring in a guy to talk some NFL.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
Albert Breer from Monday Morning quarterback Albert Breer checking in
from his house. I thought it would be parts unknown
now that summer's here, Albert, How are you, man?

Speaker 7 (37:45):
I'm good. I'm good. How you doing. You're just back
from Paris? Right, I am?

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Wow? Look at you? What do you follow me on Instagram?

Speaker 6 (37:50):
Is that what?

Speaker 7 (37:51):
Yeah? I did see it.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
It was a lot of fun, man, Yes, yes, not
not as fun as I'm sure Nantuckett and your summer
dealings up there in the Northeast.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
But let's right in.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Hey, DeAndre Hopkins released by the Cardinals while I was
on vacation, and Eric Mangini came on earlier and said, hey,
the Browns make a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
You know.

Speaker 4 (38:09):
He made it sound like he wants to go to
a team with a great quarterback. Your gut tell you
he'd take less to play with, say Mahomes or Josh Allen.
Or do you think he wants to get the bag
and go to like Atlanta or Chicago or something.

Speaker 9 (38:22):
Well, I think that's the real question, you know, like
that's what everybody's waiting on, and I think that's what's
going to determine where this thing goes. And you know,
really going back to the Cardinals' effort to trade him,
you know, the Chiefs and Bills were the two teams
that had substantial draft or trade talks with them with
them and in both cases, what you know prevented it
from happening was what those teams were willing to do

(38:43):
financially for DeAndre Hopkins, which wasn't close to the near
twenty million dollars he was going to make in Arizona.
And you know, as part of that, like the Chiefs
were also pursuing Donovan Smith, a let of tackle from Tampa,
so they essentially gave the contract they were going to
give to Hopkins to Smith.

Speaker 7 (39:01):
The Bills have sort.

Speaker 9 (39:02):
Of moved on, I think, to re engage either of
those teams, he'd have to go at a discount. So
you know, you sort of hit the nail on the
head there, J Mack. You know this is going to
come down to what's important to him. Does he want
to take less to go chase a ring, you know,
with Patrick Mahomes and Kansas City or Josh Allen in
Buffalo and maybe maybe like you know, like have that
hope out there that he can cash into twenty twenty

(39:22):
four if he shows he can make it through a
full seventeen game season and play the way that you know,
we've been accustomed to seeing him play, or and nobody
will be able to nobody could blame him for this,
you know, for a guy who turns thirty one next week,
does he want that one last bite of the financial apple.
I think that's going to determine where he winds up going.
And you know, the Browns certainly makes some sense because
they have the cap space, they have a quarterback with

(39:44):
a relationship with him.

Speaker 7 (39:45):
They also have dealt with this sort of thing in
the past in.

Speaker 9 (39:48):
Acquiring GDEVII and Clowney the last couple of off seasons
and having to manage a guy who doesn't practice very
much so Cleveland like makes a lot of sense for
those reasons.

Speaker 7 (39:57):
Buffalo and Kansas City makes sense because there are places
where he go and win.

Speaker 9 (40:00):
But the question is, you know, how much does he
feel like he has to make you know, especially when
you look back at the history of how this has
gone in the last couple of months and how the
Odell Beckham situation sort of poisoned the water with Kansas
City there.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
At the end, do you think these comments NFL executive
says Hopkins can't run anymore. I know he wasn't great
last year, but he was playing in a crappy situation.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Cardinals were a dumpster fire.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
I just wonder, is this some smart GM putting this
out there to knock down Hopkins' trade value knowing that, hey, dud,
dude's only thirty one man, he wasn't checked out last year.

Speaker 9 (40:34):
Well, So, like, there are a lot of questions here, right,
and I think the big ones are ones that we've
become accustomed to asking of Hopkins, which like, he's never
been that fast, He's never been a great separator, and
guys like that play with a smaller margin for air.
He's been able to get it done with balance and
hand eye coordination and toughness and physicality and his lengths.

(40:55):
You know, that's how he's always gotten it done.

Speaker 7 (40:58):
And so if you're dealing with a.

Speaker 9 (41:00):
Margin peer, if he's lost his step, he's going to
feel that more than a guy who runs four to three.
So like, that's certainly a valid question and one that
NFL teams have. He's only played sixteen games the last
two years, and he barely practices at all. So that's
the other thing is is this like a Julio situation
where Julio when he was in Atlanta barely missed a
game but had to be managed in a pretty heavy

(41:21):
way because of all the injuries that he'd had, And
then he gets to Tennessee and all of a sudden,
that comes home to roost. So, you know, I think
the league has spoken and said that he's not worth
twenty million dollars or else somebody would have thrown a
pick to the Cardinals to go and get him. And
another question becomes what he's actually worth, and we'll find
that out here soon enough, but it's certainly a fraction

(41:43):
of what he was worth three or four years ago,
that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
Say more about this, he doesn't practice at all. The
guy's like thirty thirty one years old and he's not practicing.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
What's that about.

Speaker 9 (41:53):
Well, that's I mean, that's just a function of how
he's taken care of his body, you know, and he
had so many nagging, little injuries that you know, it
got to the point at the end in Houston where
he wasn't practicing at all and Arizona took him on
knowing that, so he didn't practice much for the Cardinals either.
It was just sort of the plan to get him
ready for games every Sunday, and he required that level

(42:13):
of maintenance. And again, that's like where the larger question
is here. J mac is like, if he required that
level of maintenance at twenty eight, twenty nine, what's he
going to look like at thirty one, thirty two? You know,
And could this become a bigger problem as he gets older?

Speaker 7 (42:28):
Logically it would.

Speaker 9 (42:30):
And then you know, like there's that question too, like
if he's not practicing and he's one of the best
players in your team, what messages that's into your locker room?

Speaker 7 (42:37):
What could that do for you culturally?

Speaker 9 (42:39):
That's why I think, like you look at Cleveland and
having been through that, the last couple of years with
Youdebian Clowney and having a quarterback that he's familiar with it,
maybe he'd require a less little less work to get,
you know, kind of on the same page with and
Deshaun Watson.

Speaker 7 (42:54):
And maybe Cleveland has some subtle.

Speaker 9 (42:55):
Advantages here that people aren't talking about that would make
them an ideal fit. Question is whether or not they're
willing to spend the money they have it. You know,
they do have cap space. They're near the top of
the league in cap space, and the question is how
far they're willing to go financially and if they're willing
to go get closer to you know, that number that
Odell Beckham got, you know, they're you know, before the

(43:17):
draft where you know again like that's sort of what
blew up, you know, the negotiation with Hopkins and the
Cardinals and the Chiefs was Hopkins saw what Beckham got,
a fifteen million dollar base with the ability to make
up to eighteen million, and said, well, he didn't play
last year.

Speaker 7 (43:32):
I'm worth at.

Speaker 9 (43:32):
Least that He's gonna have to come off of that
a little bit. But maybe the Browns get a little
closer to it, so he can kind of amend that
in his head and go to a place that I
think would be a pretty good fit.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Let's go to the Buffalo Bills.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
Thirteen wins last year, second best point differential in the league.
And I did a segment earlier I said they're the
team one of the most pressure to win a Super
Bowl this year. You got to wonder about McDermott's future
there if I mean this playoff loss they had to Cincinnati,
just downright, and bar Josh Allen obviously got to get
to a Super Bowl, they haven't been able to get
over the hump.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Your thoughts on the Bills heading.

Speaker 9 (44:05):
In people remember, you know, at the end of last year,
and I think that was an emotionally and physically worn
out football team. You know, they're they're the obvious injelies, injuries,
Josh Allen was dealing with the elbow. Von Miller had
the ACL so he wasn't playing at all, you know,
And then you sort of look at what they went
through and I feel like a lot of that got
snowed over.

Speaker 7 (44:24):
At the end of the year.

Speaker 9 (44:25):
Right, So twice that team was displaced towards the end
of the year because of snowstorms, they had like pick
up their operation and go somewhere else two times on
the back half of the season when everybody's worn out
to begin with, you know, ahead of games, and then
the Damar Hamlin situation. Obviously that weight on everybody in
the organization. And I think we like tend to remember

(44:46):
a lot of that as a feel good story because
in a lot of ways it was, you know, like
you had him up in the box for the Week
eighteen game when you know there's a kickoff return to
start the to to start that one, and you know
he's there again when they go and beat the Dolphins,
and you know, you're th thinking to yourself, like this
was a great positive story, and again it was for
so many reasons. But what that team had been through
over the course of you know, five or six months

(45:08):
was it was a lot.

Speaker 7 (45:09):
It was a lot.

Speaker 9 (45:10):
And so you know, I think this is a team
that thinks it's being slept on right now that I
think is going to come back refreshed. You know, I
think you're gonna be a quarterback who's gonna be in
better health going into the year than he was at
the end of last year. And I mean, man, like
if von Miller, if they can get him back on
the field and playing the way he was at any
point this year at the beginning of last year. Now

(45:31):
we're talking about a different football team. So I actually
like where Buffalo is going into this season, even though
they're much more under the radar than they were last year.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
This is why you're one of the best in the business, dude.
I did not consider that displaced twice. That's good, that's amazing.
It's a breer. Yeah, that's good, good stuff. Let's go
to the Patriots, just because I like to take shots
at them this Mac Jones saga, like, come on, man,
I oh we sure, Bill o'bro.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
First of all, let's be go.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
I need you to rank the quarterbacks in the AFC
East and then tell me, like, is there a world
where Mac Jones A gets the Patriots to the playoffs
this year or B finds himself like on the hot
seat and Bill Belichick's looking for a new answer at
quarterback next all season?

Speaker 9 (46:09):
Yeah, well, this is certainly like a big year for him.
It's a big year for everybody in that organization. But
you know, I think we've seen like the history with
the way the quarterbacks are paid as rookies the first
round quarterbacks. After year three is when you got to
make a decision on the fifth year option, and it's
when these guys are eligible for long term extensions. And generally,

(46:29):
you know, if you go into year four with that unresolved,
it can make things awfully awkward, and so you want
to find out what you have in year three. That's
why the Dolphins, for example, went and got Jalen Wonnell
and Tron Armstead and did all those different things, going
and hiring Mike mctina because they needed to find out
on Tua last year and they still really don't have answers,
but they saw some good things. So I think that

(46:51):
mac Jones has to play well for the Patriots not
to have that door wide open after this year. And
I'd even say it's a crack open now for Bailey's
app to come in and shock the world. Not saying
that's going to happen, but I think Bailey Zappy's going
to get some opportunities in camp to show what he's got.
And then certainly this is a huge year for mac Jones,
and you know, he has to show a lot of

(47:11):
the things that he showed two years ago to kind
of I think, you know, not only affirmed that the
Patriots would be willing to pick up the fifth year
option for twenty twenty five, but also, you know, get
back in a place where they view him as a
potential ten year answer at the position, because coming out
of last year, there were a lot of people in
that organization that didn't think he handled the year well.

(47:33):
And to be fair to him, a lot of the
circumstances were sideways and weird.

Speaker 7 (47:37):
Now you got Bill O'Brien.

Speaker 9 (47:38):
The defense should be really good, they should be able
to run the ball, and we're going to see what
they have. Doesn't mean they need to win a Super Bowl,
but Mac Jones is going to make a lot of
progress to turn the internal view of him in that
organization coming out of twenty twenty two.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
But he's definitely the fourth best quarterback in the division, right, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (47:56):
I would say so.

Speaker 9 (47:57):
I mean, I think him in two is close. You know,
I think there's any question of the two of the
top two.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (48:02):
I mean, I think if you look at the way
Mac played as a rookie, you can certainly I mean,
I think mask up the ability to be you know,
like a Kirk Cousins Andy Dalton, like a really solid
starting quarterback, but maybe a guy that keeps you wanting
them a little bit.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Wait wait, hold on, Alan, did you say has Kirk
Cousins and Andy Dalton?

Speaker 9 (48:22):
Yeah, I mean like that, but that like see, everybody
looks at like when you say these things, they take
it as an insult.

Speaker 7 (48:26):
Kirk Cousins are really good.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
You know he's good. Yeah, I don't think Max Jones.

Speaker 7 (48:30):
And Andy Dalton.

Speaker 9 (48:31):
Andy Dalton, for all the hits he's taken, got the
Bengals to the playoffs five years That's never been done before, right,
And like Chad Pennington was the comp that I liked
when when when Mac Jones was coming out of college,
like Chad Pennington was a really good quarterback, went to
the playoffs with two different teams.

Speaker 7 (48:48):
You know.

Speaker 9 (48:49):
So I think we I think we've kind of like
got to the point where we view these all as
yes or no questions, right, like either yes he is
or no he isn't. And so is he Patrick Mahomes
or Josh Allen or Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow. I
don't think so, And I don't think he ever gets there.
Maybe he proves me wrong. I don't think he ever
gets there. Can he be a quarterback in the league,
a good starting quarterback in the league for fifteen years?

(49:10):
I think that that's on the table and he has
to show that this year. Has Tua shown us that
he's going to be more than that? Like? I like Tua,
but I don't know j Mack Like, has he shown
us he's more than that?

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Very fair questions?

Speaker 4 (49:21):
All right now, since you like yes or no questions,
let's go to San Francisco forty nine ers, yes or no?
There is a quiet feud simmering in the front office
between Shanahan and Lynch about who is the one that's
settled on Trey Lance, the quarterback that now is by
far in their locker room, the number three guy on
the depth chart, and both of themselves are trying to

(49:42):
distance themselves from Trey Lance.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Like what's going on between those two Shanahan and Lynch?

Speaker 9 (49:48):
No, I mean I think that everybody's locked in, Like
I just look like obviously it hasn't worked out, right,
Like I just view them as being like square in
a championship window right now.

Speaker 7 (50:00):
And you look at.

Speaker 9 (50:01):
That roster and who they put on that roster up
and down, and what a good job they've done a
building it up with Nick Bosa and Fred Warner and
Trent Williams and Deebo Samuel and George Kittle and Brendon
Ayuke and Christian McCaffrey. I mean, they're loaded, and this
is the one thing that could take them down.

Speaker 7 (50:16):
Right. They don't even need great quarterback play. They need
really good quarterback play.

Speaker 9 (50:21):
And I mean the one thing that could solve all
of this is hitting on your seventh round pick. And
they think they have, like they think they've got a
really good player in Rock Party. The elbow certainly complicates that,
but like they don't view him as a seventh rounder, Like,
they don't look at him that way. And so whether
they're right or wrong, we'll see. But I think if

(50:42):
you look at it and say, you know, Brock Party
could become what they thought mac Jones was in twenty
twenty one, and they didn't take mac Jones because they
swung for the fences right with Trey Lance, thinking the
high end was better there and they could expand shan
hands offense doing it. Well, that's not the worst worst
sequence of events in the world either, is it like

(51:04):
where you took your big swing, it didn't work out,
and maybe you wound up with a quarterback that was
as good as the guy you're going to pass on anyway,
So like that's sort of the way I look at it.
I look like I think that that that organization, the
way that they've built over the last six years, they've
been a model for everybody else. So you know, I
I that one they say it certainly looks like like

(51:26):
like they got that one wrong. But I I do think,
you know, even with some moving parts internally, and you know,
I think after this year there could be some some
some changes and you know, I think this really is
the year to get it right with the current group
of people. I do think that everybody's locked in right
now and trying to find the right quarterback and serving
what's a phenomenal laws.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
Very political answer well said.

Speaker 9 (51:48):
Look like I think that this is this is another
part of it too, j Mac, Like, I mean, John
Lynch came close to taking to the Fox job last year,
right Like, So I mean, I I don't think it's
impops that you know, there's a new general manager there
the next year or two and that sing is going
to happen, But like, I don't think that's I don't
think that's impossible, And I don't think anybody, if that
were to happen, should read into it as like this

(52:11):
was some sort of huge problem between the two guys.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Huh, well, I mean I'm wondering.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
So if you took a quarterback in twenty twenty one,
that was I believe the second COVID draft, right, twenty
twenty Yeah, yeah, can.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
You get like a mulligan, because hey, it was COVID.
It was weird.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
You know, we couldn't do the in depth stuff we
wanted to. And I say this because the Jets took
Zach Wilson second already looking like a disaster, and the
Niners Trey Lance.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
That's a disaster. Field goes eleven. I like, Field, that's
a lot of wait and see.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
Mac Jones went fifteenth, and he's the only one who
has looked good at least for a season.

Speaker 9 (52:47):
Yeah, you know who else went in the first round
of the COVID draft, Henry Ruggs, Damon Arnett, Like there
were all of these like if you look at it seriously, though,
if you look at it, like there were a lot
of like swing and misses. Justin Jefferson lasted all the
way to the what it was, the twenty first pick,
twenty second pick, right, Like if you look at that

(53:09):
draft class, like what we were all saying at the time,
like look out now, like there could be some there's
gonna be some real swings and misses here because the
teams aren't able to do a lot of the stuff,
and they weren't able to do a lot of the
stuff over the last month of the process they would
normally do as far as going and working guys out
privately and bringing them in for thirty business and learning

(53:29):
more about who they are. Like maybe somebody would have
figured out, like Justin Jefferson is going to make it
work no matter what, and maybe he is not just
a slot receiver. Maybe somebody would have sat down and said,
like sat down with Damon Artnett and figured out like
like he had character issues before his last year at
Ohio State, Like, yeah, he can bounce back, but I
don't know if I really trust him, you know, Like

(53:50):
those are the sorts of discussions that very well might
have happened if COVID hadn't sort of turned that process
upside down. So I certainly think we're going to be
looking back at that year, like a few years out
and saying like, man, like you know, like you can see,
like the last month six weeks of the draft process
really are important because in that one year, taking that

(54:12):
whole piece of the process out of the equation really
made a difference.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Yeah, And that's a great point because in twenty twenty, Yeah,
I know you're an Ohio state guy.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Chase Young got second.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
He had a good start to his career, but they
didn't pick up the fifth year and Okuda has already
been shipped out of Detroit.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
By the way, what do you make of the Chase
Young stuff?

Speaker 7 (54:31):
I think that knee injury is way worse than people tho.
Like I it was.

Speaker 9 (54:35):
I mean, like that what I was hearing from people
in Washington and like, you know, December and January was
like he he was having trouble moving around period, you know,
and like so, you know, I it just it sounded
like they were really struggling with the idea of bringing
him back at the end of last year, and they
didn't feel like he was himself. And unfortunately, because of

(54:58):
the way the rules work now, you aren't really going
to get to see him in any sort of football
activity before you had to make a decision on that
fifth year option. The other thing is, look how much
they've got invested on the defensive line. I mean, they've
already paid durn Payn, They've already paid Jonathan Allen. And
now you got both Montes Sweat and Chase Young coming up.
And Montes Sweat's already shown he's a really effective pass

(55:20):
rusher and is going to command a lot of money.

Speaker 7 (55:23):
And then you got Chase Young, who looked like a
generational talent before he got hurt.

Speaker 9 (55:28):
And so I think they're going to probably wind up
having to make a choice between the two, you know.
I think that that's what the injury has done to
this where it's like, you know, you're going to get
like a couple of weeks into camp and it's like
either Chase Young looks like, oh my god, he's all
the way back and now we've got a real decision
to make, or Wow, Chase's knee.

Speaker 7 (55:46):
Is a real mess, and now.

Speaker 9 (55:48):
Like let's go ahead and like really get going on
a Montes' Sweat extension, get him done, and we'll let
the year play out with Chase I think that's the
sort of situation is sort of setting up to.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
Be Albert Breer, Senior reporter and lead content strategist.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
That just sounds cool. Monday Morning quarterback. Thanks a lot, man.
Enjoy the summer, all right, thanks, Jam, I appreciate it right.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
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