May 8, 2024 • 30 mins
Colin points out Luka Doncic's ball-dominant style is not sustainable for an extended playoff run as the Mavericks were dominated by the Thunder in game 1 of their second round series. He questions Jayson Tatum as a true Alpha for the Celtics as they continue to win in the postseason but Tatum remains their 3rd leading scorer. Plus, Timberwolves head coach Chris Finch joins the show to explain how he changed the culture in Minnesota from a perpetual lottery team to title contender
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
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or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Boy do we have a lot to talk about a
lot of things going on in LA. It's the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day. I had
a late night last night. I'm gonna try to get
through today's show. J Mac little cigar hangover whatever, nobody cares.
Nobody cares wait a cigar hangover. Hey, listen, the audience
(00:49):
just wants performance. They just want me to go up
here and talk.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Are you as banged up as Luca right now? This
will be my flu game, my cigar flue game. This
is my MJ flugame. All right, Well I start with this.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
You know I've said before I think Lucas Great's gonna
end up one of the top five scores in league history.
But I don't see him as a face of the
league guy, and I don't see him as a guy
holding trophy after trophy after trophy. He may be like
Dirk go get one, but again, number one usage rate
player in the league, what does that mean. He's got
the ball in his hands more than any player of
the league. And once again, like a James Harden, you
(01:26):
get to the postseason, when you're the number one usage
rate guy, you're hobbled and you run out of gas.
Look at his three point shooting. He's lost his legs.
Jannis number two usage rate guy, got hurt SGA number
three usage rate guy. His numbers are down from the
regular season. These usage rate guys that always have the
(01:47):
ball in their hands. It can work for short runs,
like Jalen Brunson's doing it now in the playoffs, but
eighty two games you get worn down. All those minutes,
all that dominance, all those possessions. And again Lucas three
point shooting's got into the tank. He's actually now playing
defense as well, so he's hobbled. He comes in banged up,
(02:09):
worn down, hobbled. Jason Kidds playing him through all this,
and he's not the same player. So it's one of
the things about maybe life in basketball, pick your spots.
You know, NFL you got one game a week. If
you're an offensive player, you got fifty five plays sam
In hockey you're on the line, it's forty five seconds.
You play mad, crazy, intense. But in basketball you got
(02:30):
pick your spots. Lebron's thirty nine. He picks his spots.
He takes enough games off, he picks his spot. He
didn't take a ton of games off, didn't want to
play back to backs, picks his spots in games. He's
thirty nine in still robust. James Harden used age eight guy,
Late Night Guy thirty four and looks old. MJ was
great at picking his spots. And I think this is
(02:51):
what's going to happen to Dallas. Is that a Luca
when he always has the ball in his hands, it's
gonna be hard to play with. Now you could say, well,
Kyrie Collin, this thing's working now half the season. Yeah,
would you be surprised if it blew up tomorrow, or
blew up next week, or blew up at the trade deadline.
The Kyrie moves a desperation move to get somebody that
(03:11):
could play with him after they gave Jalen Brunson away
and he became a star in New York. This is
not an anti Luca thing. It's a when you get
these players. The James Harden the Lucas are two that
jump out to me. Jannis always happed ball, dominant ball,
fens asking the lot. Now they're asking Luca to play defense.
He's worn down, he has lost his legs. Now, Lucas
(03:34):
always going to be able to score. He can go
out tomorrow in the next game and score forty five points.
But this is what I always felt Luca was. He
was going to end up a top five NBA scorer,
but his career would look more like Harden, better than Harden,
but more like Harden than it would MJ And so again,
the Kyrie move works now, but nobody in the league
wanted him except the Mavericks. And never never forget this.
(03:58):
In the NFL, four of the last six teams where
the quarterback led the league in passing in a passing
league either didn't make the playoffs or didn't win a
single playoff game. Just like the NBA, it's about scoring,
It's about having a star. Yes, Lucas scores that he's
a star, but there's a way to do it. There
(04:20):
is balance, and the Mavericks feel lobsided. Luca, his teams
are lobsided. You have to get defensive players before this
year to protect his defensive liabilities. Now he is playing defense,
but because of his usage rate and playing defense and
the minutes, he's a broken down player. He's still great,
but he doesn't quite look the same. So again, those
NFL teams four of the last six where the quarterbacks
(04:44):
led the league in passing, they don't make the playoffs,
or if they do, they don't want a game. So
it's the construction of the team you follow in Everybody talks,
you know, lazy media people, MVP talk, MVP tech. Nobody
cares about that. Win the games. Nobody cares about MVP stuff.
I mean in the NBA, the v is your favorite story.
Westbrook wins it, Embiid wins it. Yeah, it feels like
(05:05):
the right thing to do. Nobody wants Jokics to win
it three or four five times in a row because
his game's kind of ugly whatever it is. I feel like,
you know, this is semi predictable with Luca, Big score.
I usage Rake, when they ask him now to play
real defense, you're just asking too much of a guy.
He's broken down, legs are kind of shot again. He
(05:27):
could drop thirty in the next playoff game, but he
doesn't quite feel the same. He looks a little ghast.
And here's Luca on his poor shooting night.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
When you look at your shooting night, you know what
went into that.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Who cares? We lost?
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Man, I just got to move on to the next one.
Gotta be better. We got to be better, and just
I mean, we know for game one struggling, but we
got to focus. They're great team, great defensive team, great
defensive team. So he's not gonna be easy at all.
We got to play very good basketball and focus basketball
for three minutes.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Now. The opposite star player in this league of Lucas
Jason Tatum, who I do think will end up winning titles,
which I would prefer over just a guy who scores
a bunch of points. But sometimes you wish Jason Tatum
was more aggressive, took the game over more often. So
(06:21):
he was only the third leading scorer for the Celtics
last night, and he's only the third leading scorer for
the Celtics in the playoffs, despite the fact that he's
their best player. So I would prefer prefer unselfish players.
First of all, they're easier to play with. All Jason
Tatum teams tend to be good and have good chemistry,
(06:42):
so that's not the case with Luca. He couldn't get
along with Brunson. The Kyrie thing works now but could
blow up. So I prefer the Tatum version of this
NBA star. He just plays well with everybody I wish
sometimes though, the only question is there is with Tatum,
I feel like, you know, he's sleep walking through my Miami.
He's going to sleep walking through Cleveland. And when he
(07:05):
has to go toe to toe with an Ant or
a Luca or an SGA or a Jalen Brunson, that
could happen very soon. Can he give me a forty
four point night if Jalen Brunson is or if Jalen
Brown is off and Porzingis doesn't play, and I need
Tatum against the Knicks. I need him to score forty
six points? Can he give me that? Can he flip
the switch? He may be able to do that, But
(07:26):
it's interesting to watch Luca, who I think has a
very predictable postseason. Again, now when you finally ask him
to play defense and he does, with his usage rate,
it's just too much. He feels these guys are human beings, right,
You got to pick your spots with it. Tatum, I
actually prefer that kind of star, but it leaves me
(07:47):
feeling like, I'm I want more eighteen points, third leading
scorer in the playoffs. Can you give me a little
next level? And can he flip that when he faces
maybe an Ant or when he faces a Yokich or
whoever probably won't be Yokich. Can he do that? So
it's interesting because Tatum had this relationship with Kobe Bryant,
(08:08):
and Kobe Bryant could be a very selfish player, but
Kobe Bryant knew when to be unselfish. That's why he
ended up with five rings. He knew there were time
to get it to Shack. Kobe knew there were times
take the foot off the pedal, get it to Gasol.
Kobe love playing with bigs, and so with Tatum. I'm
really interested to see how this ends. They're gonna win
the East. The Knicks will probably push them five or six.
(08:28):
I think they're gonna win the East. They should win
the East, and Tatum is easy to play with. But
it's interesting to watch Luca with a high usage rate
being broken down and with Tatum, I get no holes
in his game. Before this year, Luca had a lot
of holes, mostly defense. With Tatum, he's a good defender,
he's good teammate, can hit a jumper, can drive score
at the rim, can hit a three. Not a lot
(08:50):
of holes in his game. Again, I just feel like
sometimes grab it now, you say, Colin, there's not the
perfect player, that's right. I mean Tatum is great, full
He's got a refined game. It's very complete. But it's
interesting to watch last night the heavy ball usage rate,
guy that you got to cover four on defense historically,
(09:10):
who is harder to play with, looks gassed. Tatum. You
wish he was a bit more selfish, say what you want,
but it's like he's conserving energy. Which one's gonna end better?
My guess is the Tatum. So am I being overly
critical of Jason Tatum for wanting him to be more
and maybe he won't have to be. But I do
feel like there'll be a moment in that Knick series
(09:31):
because they play such great defense that Jalen Brown will
be held in check, He'll be off. Porzingis may not
be healthy. And that's why a potential Celtics Knicks series
is so interesting to me, because I think you're gonna
need a forty six point game from him, maybe on
the road in New York, and I'm not sure. I
want to see if he can flip that switch. Here's
Tatum on the win last night.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
Not counting your defense. Seven of nineteen shooting and you
still put up one twenty even if you might be
not your best offensively, that you've got guys behind you
that can and step up and have big games.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
Really just what I've been saying all year. We got
a really really talented team.
Speaker 8 (10:07):
Shows the depth of.
Speaker 7 (10:08):
Our team and how we can win games in a
lot of different ways. Just presents another challenge of you know,
what else can you do to impact the game in
a positive way.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Now it is when I'm watching Jason Tatum j Max,
I really feel like this. I feel like he knows
I can conserve energy against Miami, I can conserve energy
against Cleveland. So it may be a very smart play
on his point, but having your best player as your
third leading scorer as you go into your second series
is different in the history of the league. That's just
(10:44):
not the way it usually works. And my take is
he's kind of just sitting back and waiting for the moment.
And that's why I think the New York Boston series
could be great. I would prefer the Tatum star over
the Lucastar. Easier to play with, always going to have
better chemistry, not a lobsided team. You don't have to
protect him on the defensive end. But it's but I
still do feel with Tatum sometimes I need forty six tonight,
(11:08):
and I think against the name, I don't think he's
gonna need that against Cleveland. They're gonna fly through Cleveland.
But the Knicks series, potentially if they beat Indiana, I think,
you know, we kind of think maybe they will. I
don't know if you do, but that's one one that
we're to me is the best potential playoff series left,
including the finals, will be that Knicks series that will
force Tatum to do it.
Speaker 9 (11:29):
Bronson, Yeah, it feels like the Knicks, the way they
play defense, their style will give the Celtics some problems
and that's gonna have to be Tatum to take over.
By the way, have you noticed remember early in the
NBA season the scoring was like laughable. Guys were scoring
one hundred and fifty two and people were like, this
is out of control. Sometime after the All Star breaks
some numbers came out. Then yes, yes, scoring is way
(11:50):
down and the rest are swallowing their whistles. And who
are the physical teams that are benefiting from this in
the postseason? Minnesota Minnesota, Oka se last night with the
doors or chamber New nixt So we're seeing a change. Quietly,
who can handle this physical play with the rest center.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Hey, well let them play. No, this is a great
observation by you. So the NBA All Star Game has
become embarrassing. And so the NBA was watching the scoring.
And I'll give Adam Silver credit on this. Baseball can
never make a move. Adam Silver and Roger Goodell to
both of their credit, watch the games, see an issue
(12:26):
and tweak it in season, as if a commissioner can't
do that. There was pushback, Well, it seems like you've
made a change. Anybody here own a business. What do
I have to wait till the end of the calendar
year to make a change, that's idiotic. Adam Silver looked
at There's no question they did this. There's no question.
Adam Silver looked at it and said, guys, the game
now is too easy. It's esthetically not as pleasing physicality
(12:48):
and hockey we like it. Football, we like it. We
like it in the NBA now. We don't want to
have the Detroit Pistons tackling people. But what is making
these games so intense is your life. It's physical and
by the way, it's just like if you ever play
basketball at the YMCA, it doesn't get snippy if everybody's
just jacking threes. It's when bodies start hitting down low.
(13:12):
That's when guys at the YMCA, well, think about the
NBA and what's what's at stake. So when you're watching
these NBA games the league right now, what they've done
to tweak it has been marvelous. It is physical basketball.
Still a lot of threes, but the physical basketball, to
your great point, is really benefiting then x well. The
(13:33):
defensive teams, the Celtics, the Knicks, ok Minnesota and Minnesota.
Speaker 9 (13:38):
I mean more than anyone. And the problem for Denver
is they haven't adjusted to it. And that's why in
Game two, they're losing their mind, complaining about calls. Michael
Malone running on the court. Denver has not adjusted to
this physical play. Minnesota's picking them up full court. I
don't know, if you know, they're like all in their
face and like they're just Denver's just bothered by this.
Minnesota adjusted well.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Chris Finch's coming on the.
Speaker 9 (13:59):
Show at today, I believe, like just very smart coach,
seeing what's coming around the corner and hey, let's adjust
our details.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
The question with Minnesota all year was the construction. When
they went with the two bigs, it was like, is
this gonna work. It wasn't that they didn't have good coaching.
I've said this over the course of the years. Why
we bring Finch on. They always look prepared, They never
get blown out, They adjust very well. But it was
always like roster construction. Conley's a little old and is
emerging two bigs. Now you look at it and you're like, oh,
(14:27):
you see their vision. They were building this puppy for Denver.
They were building this puppy for Jokic and Denver and size,
and it's like, oh, what a nightmare for everybody. By
the way, the Knicks lost Mitchell Robinson for the playoffs.
Speaker 9 (14:40):
Another guy three the top eight guys, how that.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
That eliminates any chance of beating like a like a
Minnesota And if they got to the finals, now they
got small suddenly.
Speaker 9 (14:49):
Well let's see tonight if we want to do wager's wagers,
what's Indiana getting tonight?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think three?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I would it's close. Well, all Nick games are close.
They win them all at home in the they're all closed.
Speaker 9 (15:00):
I want to take a look at the Pacers on
the money line tonight.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm sorry, Knox fans.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Hey can I can? I there's a there's a story
out about Jalen Brunson's putting up Jordan numbers, and I
have a take on that. Yeah, it's called The Herd.
I do take some stuff, So I got to take
on that good points today. You're carrying me. It's my
Jordan game, It's my flu game.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So I was vacationing last summer in a little place
in Rhode Island, and there's this little sandwich shop I
like to go to. And one of the reasons I
like to go to this sandwich shop is because I
can see the effort the employees and the owners put
into their work, Like it's just not your typical BLT
like I like companies where I can literally see their
(15:50):
dedication as a consumer, and I am loyal to those companies.
And there's been stories this week about Jalen Brunson has
now joined Michael Jordan in a very elite class of
NBA playoff scores, and Jalen Brunson is not Michael Jordan.
But I can watch as a consumer Jalen Brunson's game
(16:11):
and I can see the work he puts into it,
ball handling, floaters, finishing at the rim. The opposite of Mello,
who was a natural score day one in the NBA,
but I never felt added to it. Never became an
elite defender, even a good one, never became an elite
three point shooter. Mello came in naturally gifted, but I
(16:34):
never felt he was even in great shape. George Carl
complained about that there's a big difference. Jalen Brunson has talent,
but I always appreciate lebron In year twenty one. This
year had his best year shooting three pointers. Think about that.
Arguably the best player ever and Lebron is still working
(16:55):
on his craft with Mello. I just saw a long,
agile natural score with Jalen Brunson. I see the time
in the gym. Go to his college career. He averaged
nine and a half points a game at Villanova. They
want a natty. He was the fifth scoring option. Two
years later he was close to twenty a game as
(17:16):
they want a natty and he was the man that's work.
He was a completely different player in two years. Even
in these playoffs, his scoring average, this is remarkable, especially
for a smaller player. It goes up every quarter. That
is elite shape, elite cardio, elite work. I've said this
(17:37):
he and Tatum. He gets cleaner looks as a smaller player.
He has so many moves in his arsenal. And I
remember years ago watching a center name Akeem Olajuan, and
you would watch his footwork and you're like that dude
puts in time. Like that footwork Akeem had made other
(17:57):
set Go ask Shaquille O'Neal about guarding a keen. He
wrapped him in circles Dwight Howard had just as much
or more talent. He never developed a go to offensive
move outside of a dunk. That doesn't mean Dwight Howard
didn't practice or Mellow didn't. But you go to businesses
around this country, the really good ones, you can see
(18:19):
the effort at that sandwich shop you love, at that
breakfast place you're loyal to, at that airline you're more
willing to go to. When I watched Jalen Brunson, he's
not MJ, but MJ and Kobe were craftsmen. I mean,
Kobe and MJ had three or four moves each that
they mastered. Just weren't gonna stop him. Chris Paul's got
(18:41):
some of that. Chris Paul's not dunkan, not high flying
that behind the back, back, through the legs, mid range
fall away. I mean he's got that thing down. Patton
has for fifteen, ten, twelve, fifteen years. So that's what
I appreciate about Jalen Brunson. He's a second rounder. He's
not super vertical, he's not that game. That's craftsmanship, that's
just not going to the gym. We've all had that
(19:02):
person in our family. I work hard, I put in
forty four hours a week, and then you see the
employee that puts in sixty four Like, that's what I
see with Brunson, that dude has refined, polished outwork people
in the gym. Here's Jalen talking about how he views
his offense.
Speaker 10 (19:23):
I think, what can we do, how can we be aggressive?
How can we attack? And where can we get the
best advantage for our team? And has nothing to do
with me saying I need to hit this amount of points,
I need to hit this amount of shots. It's just
I'm reading how the game is being played and that's
just my mindset. That always That's how it always has.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Then really considering Dallas is like, yeah, this isn't right.
It feels like between Dallas and New York he's added
layers to his game. I mean that's that is putting
in the time. There's forty four forty six hour a
week guy, and then there's fifty eight sixty hour a
week guy. You can see the difference.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and neonon Eastern non a EM Pacific.
Speaker 11 (20:08):
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball.
We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's
more about the stories about what made these people love
their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way.
We talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell
you stories.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
You download it, you listen to it.
Speaker 11 (20:27):
I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with
Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, he's one of the smartest guys in the NBA.
He's led the t Wolves to three straight playoff appearances.
Seven different players on this team, despite having people as
good as Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobern ant, seven guys
are averaging ten plus this postseason, which is the ultimate team.
Rudy Gobert said, I've never been on a team like
this where everybody cares about themselves. Chris Finch now joining
us live, So let's talk about building that culture, because
(21:01):
you know, they've always talked about heat culture and it's
a real thing. It's like the term Villanova guys, like,
it's a real thing. When I think of Minnesota and
how you get those players to play that length of
a season and yet are that committed defensively, it looks collegiate.
If it was that easy to get guys to do it,
(21:22):
everybody would do it. Tell me the buy in. Where
did the buy in start?
Speaker 12 (21:27):
As a coach, Yeah, I mean the buyan started really
in the offseason and in the preseason when we realize, like,
this is who we have to be if we want
to be any good. I mean we have we have
Rudy of course, defensive Player of the Year, but we
also have Jaden McDaniels, Nikhil, Alexander Walker, Anthony Edwards. These
(21:47):
guys are outstanding defenders in their own right. And if
we're not maximizing like those parts of their skill sets,
like we're not obviously playing to our strengths. And then
you know, Mike Connelly's got great experience, super competit that
they've been in the league a long time. And then
you know, developing the defensive kind of skills within Kat
(22:09):
and nasried guys who have like moved from the five
position to the four positions, of getting more comfortable with
playing in rotations and playing in different schemes and all
that kind of stuff. It's it's been a work in progress.
But if the want two is there, you know, these
guys care. They got a high care factor. It shows
their competitiveness and they understand that it's driven our success.
(22:30):
Like we had success right out of the gate today
this season we started I think seventeen and four, most
of it driven by our defense.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
So it's one of the things that continues to defeat itself.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You know, Ant is there's a playfulness and a joyfulness
to his game that I think matters. I think sometimes
you know some NFL NBA guys, like what I love
about Patrick Mahomes is he's having a hell of a
time out there and he likes you to be part
of it. But he's demanding. When I watch ant Ants,
(23:02):
I mean, there's a little YMCA trash talk to him,
but he wants you to play hard. And I know
that sounds kind of ethereal and weird, but when I
watch Ant, even though he has the ball in his
hands a lot, I would want to play hard for
him because he plays so hard on the defensive end.
There is something about Ant that is contagious and I
(23:22):
don't know how to explain it, but that's what I
see when I watch him. Can you explain that?
Speaker 12 (23:27):
Yeah, Well, you've nailed it Colin. I mean, that's not
just him as a player, it's him as a person.
Like people when I first got here, they asked me,
can he be a good leader, And I said absolutely,
because he has this personality where people want to follow him.
Every leader has one thing in common, and that is
people follow him. It doesn't matter how they get it happen.
And so that's his personality off the floor as well
(23:47):
as on the floor. I mean, and as far as
as far as having fun, whether it's Mahomes or Anthony,
I mean, when you're the best player on the floor,
you're generally having fun. I mean, I mean every the
days when I was the best player on the floor
and basketball was a lot of fun to play. But
he has a joyfulness that he does play, and he's
competitive and he's demanding of his teammates that they bring
(24:11):
the same love of the game and energy, you know, and.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Also execution and those parts.
Speaker 12 (24:17):
He's still learning and starting to just now kind of
master some of that himself. And I think that's also
the thing that his teammates love about him, is that
he'll admit what he doesn't know. He'll admit when he's wrong,
and he's not looking to blame or point fingers anywhere else,
but take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know you obviously the players love you, so your
pro player, and you have to be I think in
pro sports. But I thought and I Adam Silver has
been more pro player than David Stern. I don't like
a reasonably small fine for Jamal Murray. I thought it
was a very reckless act, especially under the basket with
all the bigs. I think, hey, i'd probably say I'm
(24:56):
going to go into that n season tournament thing in
Dacia week or something. Then I don't know, I'm not
asking you to be the commissioner, but I thought that
that bothered me, and I like Jamal Murray. Have you
talked to it to your team? Maybe maybe it's a
compliment Christy you that you've got them so flustered and
ticked off that they're losing themselves. But now in retrospect,
(25:18):
how do you look at that moment?
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Yeah, I think you know, I'm in my opinion pretty clear.
The other day, I think it's it's it's inexcusable. It's
certainly dangerous. You know, I don't know if I've really
seen it before. I've seen some people slam water bottles
down and it's spilled out. But I've never seen kind
of a direct attempt to throw something on the floor
(25:40):
or near or at somebody.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Particularly in live play.
Speaker 12 (25:44):
I didn't expect the suspension, to be honest, Colin, I
I and I'm fine with that.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I don't think that.
Speaker 12 (25:51):
The league wanted to be able to, you know, to
have to decide anything based on players not playing, and
I'm fine with that.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
The monetary piece, you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 12 (26:03):
I think you know, Rudy had carried a big fine
for US earlier this season when doing something highly inappropriate.
So yeah, I didn't think too much of it. I'm
moving on. We'll expect Jamal to play, and we expect
him to play extremely well. You know, I was with
Jamal when he was a rookie in Denver. You know,
(26:24):
love him as a guy. He's super competitive, as you
can see. It's one of the things I love most
about him.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
He's clutch, he's he cares. You know.
Speaker 12 (26:33):
It's as strange as it sounds, it all comes from
the right place, you know. I didn't see it as catchulan.
I saw it as this is a competitive guy who's
trying to do everything he can to get himself going.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I want to circle back to the defense. Charles Barkley
said this, and I felt the exact same way. But
here's Barkley talking about your defense.
Speaker 8 (26:55):
We saw one of the best defensive teams I've ever seen.
You know, the stats don't lie. They are incredible defensively.
You talk about what even Rudy's not there, but on
the perimeter, their guarding everything led by ant Man. Their
best player is playing great defense, and the rest of
those perimeter players, even with Don Rudy Man, this is
(27:17):
one of the best defensive teams I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So it's interesting. You used to be able to hand
check lean on bigs, so it was actually easier to
play defense in the old days. More was allowed. It's
almost like the NFL. It's much easier to play defense
ten years ago. Then they took all the clutching, grabbing,
hitting over the middle. It's harder to play great defense.
You have to exert incredible energy because you can't direct people.
(27:41):
So I'm watching your defense the other night, and I'm
thinking in a weird way, and I appreciated Adam Silver
doing this. Chris, the NFL has always been able to
in season, they'll kind of adapt to things if they
see things happening with the rules. Adam Silver, I think
correctly said, guys, scoring is getting too easy. Let's let
these guys play. I think the products better in a
(28:03):
weird way. That benefited you in the Knicks greatly because
you both have the personnel to play defense. Do you
think it's possible that that little tweak didn't benefit the
Lakers in the war, it benefited your roster.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 12 (28:20):
I mean we're definitely, uh, we've always been defensive first
all season long, and really kind of what the way
I see it, Collin is like the last I don't know,
twenty five thirty games of the season felt a lot
like playoff basketball to me.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, so it was good.
Speaker 12 (28:37):
It was good for that, and you know it's good
for preparing those teams going into the playoffs with that
type of physicality.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
These players are so skilled and they're so smart.
Speaker 12 (28:46):
It was frustrating to watch, I think as a product,
to watch players game the game over the last five
six years. You know, they were they knew what files
they could easily bait. They were going to get them
every single time defensive had There's there's some files. You
couldn't do anything about it if the guy just launches
himself sideways into you. You know they're trying to and
I think that's where it started. And to me, it
(29:07):
makes a heck of a lot of sense. Just get
out of the game the things that aren't fouls, Like,
we shouldn't be able to trick the officials into calling
these things because we've we've put ourselves in a in
a corner with the rule book, and that's kind of
what happened.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Uh.
Speaker 12 (29:21):
The league has been asking questions over the last few years,
how do we bring defense back into the league, And then,
you know, my standard answer is just let us play it,
you know, just let let teams go back and play
it a little bit more and and allow some more
physicality in and around the ball.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
In particular.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Well, I would never rupture a pateell or tendon because
I'm not an athlete and I stay away from physical contact.
You as a ball or as an alpha is out
You're out there like a player. The players probably appreciate
Chris Finch is hot, You're like Luca. You're playing a
bit hurt, and how do the players react to your injury?
How's that played?
Speaker 10 (29:56):
In the room.
Speaker 12 (29:58):
Well, I mean, it's a ton of support and concern.
It's been great. And thank god it's.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
My knee and not Mike Conley's. You got hurt, that
was the biggest thing.
Speaker 12 (30:09):
And I, like you, Colin, have avoided playing pickup basketball
for the better part of thirty years to avoid such
a silly injury. So I happened to get it while standing,
you know, on the sidelines tonight. I couldn't get out
of the way. So my athleticisms failed me too.
Speaker 8 (30:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Stuff, when you get older, Chris, stuff breaks. It is.
It's just that's the way it works. Hey, get healthy.
Good luck. You got a game on your hands Friday.
The Nuggets are going to play hair on Fire, so
that's going to be crazy. And to congrats on all
your success. It's been a blast to watch.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
All right, appreciate it. Thanks Colin,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Boy do we have a lot to talk about a
lot of things going on in LA. It's the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day. I had
a late night last night. I'm gonna try to get
through today's show. J Mac little cigar hangover whatever, nobody cares.
Nobody cares wait a cigar hangover. Hey, listen, the audience
(00:49):
just wants performance. They just want me to go up
here and talk.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Are you as banged up as Luca right now? This
will be my flu game, my cigar flue game. This
is my MJ flugame. All right, Well I start with this.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
You know I've said before I think Lucas Great's gonna
end up one of the top five scores in league history.
But I don't see him as a face of the
league guy, and I don't see him as a guy
holding trophy after trophy after trophy. He may be like
Dirk go get one, but again, number one usage rate
player in the league, what does that mean. He's got
the ball in his hands more than any player of
the league. And once again, like a James Harden, you
(01:26):
get to the postseason, when you're the number one usage
rate guy, you're hobbled and you run out of gas.
Look at his three point shooting. He's lost his legs.
Jannis number two usage rate guy, got hurt SGA number
three usage rate guy. His numbers are down from the
regular season. These usage rate guys that always have the
(01:47):
ball in their hands. It can work for short runs,
like Jalen Brunson's doing it now in the playoffs, but
eighty two games you get worn down. All those minutes,
all that dominance, all those possessions. And again Lucas three
point shooting's got into the tank. He's actually now playing
defense as well, so he's hobbled. He comes in banged up,
(02:09):
worn down, hobbled. Jason Kidds playing him through all this,
and he's not the same player. So it's one of
the things about maybe life in basketball, pick your spots.
You know, NFL you got one game a week. If
you're an offensive player, you got fifty five plays sam
In hockey you're on the line, it's forty five seconds.
You play mad, crazy, intense. But in basketball you got
(02:30):
pick your spots. Lebron's thirty nine. He picks his spots.
He takes enough games off, he picks his spot. He
didn't take a ton of games off, didn't want to
play back to backs, picks his spots in games. He's
thirty nine in still robust. James Harden used age eight guy,
Late Night Guy thirty four and looks old. MJ was
great at picking his spots. And I think this is
(02:51):
what's going to happen to Dallas. Is that a Luca
when he always has the ball in his hands, it's
gonna be hard to play with. Now you could say, well,
Kyrie Collin, this thing's working now half the season. Yeah,
would you be surprised if it blew up tomorrow, or
blew up next week, or blew up at the trade deadline.
The Kyrie moves a desperation move to get somebody that
(03:11):
could play with him after they gave Jalen Brunson away
and he became a star in New York. This is
not an anti Luca thing. It's a when you get
these players. The James Harden the Lucas are two that
jump out to me. Jannis always happed ball, dominant ball,
fens asking the lot. Now they're asking Luca to play defense.
He's worn down, he has lost his legs. Now, Lucas
(03:34):
always going to be able to score. He can go
out tomorrow in the next game and score forty five points.
But this is what I always felt Luca was. He
was going to end up a top five NBA scorer,
but his career would look more like Harden, better than Harden,
but more like Harden than it would MJ And so again,
the Kyrie move works now, but nobody in the league
wanted him except the Mavericks. And never never forget this.
(03:58):
In the NFL, four of the last six teams where
the quarterback led the league in passing in a passing
league either didn't make the playoffs or didn't win a
single playoff game. Just like the NBA, it's about scoring,
It's about having a star. Yes, Lucas scores that he's
a star, but there's a way to do it. There
(04:20):
is balance, and the Mavericks feel lobsided. Luca, his teams
are lobsided. You have to get defensive players before this
year to protect his defensive liabilities. Now he is playing defense,
but because of his usage rate and playing defense and
the minutes, he's a broken down player. He's still great,
but he doesn't quite look the same. So again, those
NFL teams four of the last six where the quarterbacks
(04:44):
led the league in passing, they don't make the playoffs,
or if they do, they don't want a game. So
it's the construction of the team you follow in Everybody talks,
you know, lazy media people, MVP talk, MVP tech. Nobody
cares about that. Win the games. Nobody cares about MVP stuff.
I mean in the NBA, the v is your favorite story.
Westbrook wins it, Embiid wins it. Yeah, it feels like
(05:05):
the right thing to do. Nobody wants Jokics to win
it three or four five times in a row because
his game's kind of ugly whatever it is. I feel like,
you know, this is semi predictable with Luca, Big score.
I usage Rake, when they ask him now to play
real defense, you're just asking too much of a guy.
He's broken down, legs are kind of shot again. He
(05:27):
could drop thirty in the next playoff game, but he
doesn't quite feel the same. He looks a little ghast.
And here's Luca on his poor shooting night.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
When you look at your shooting night, you know what
went into that.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Who cares? We lost?
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Man, I just got to move on to the next one.
Gotta be better. We got to be better, and just
I mean, we know for game one struggling, but we
got to focus. They're great team, great defensive team, great
defensive team. So he's not gonna be easy at all.
We got to play very good basketball and focus basketball
for three minutes.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Now. The opposite star player in this league of Lucas
Jason Tatum, who I do think will end up winning titles,
which I would prefer over just a guy who scores
a bunch of points. But sometimes you wish Jason Tatum
was more aggressive, took the game over more often. So
(06:21):
he was only the third leading scorer for the Celtics
last night, and he's only the third leading scorer for
the Celtics in the playoffs, despite the fact that he's
their best player. So I would prefer prefer unselfish players.
First of all, they're easier to play with. All Jason
Tatum teams tend to be good and have good chemistry,
(06:42):
so that's not the case with Luca. He couldn't get
along with Brunson. The Kyrie thing works now but could
blow up. So I prefer the Tatum version of this
NBA star. He just plays well with everybody I wish
sometimes though, the only question is there is with Tatum,
I feel like, you know, he's sleep walking through my Miami.
He's going to sleep walking through Cleveland. And when he
(07:05):
has to go toe to toe with an Ant or
a Luca or an SGA or a Jalen Brunson, that
could happen very soon. Can he give me a forty
four point night if Jalen Brunson is or if Jalen
Brown is off and Porzingis doesn't play, and I need
Tatum against the Knicks. I need him to score forty
six points? Can he give me that? Can he flip
the switch? He may be able to do that, But
(07:26):
it's interesting to watch Luca, who I think has a
very predictable postseason. Again, now when you finally ask him
to play defense and he does, with his usage rate,
it's just too much. He feels these guys are human beings, right,
You got to pick your spots with it. Tatum, I
actually prefer that kind of star, but it leaves me
(07:47):
feeling like, I'm I want more eighteen points, third leading
scorer in the playoffs. Can you give me a little
next level? And can he flip that when he faces
maybe an Ant or when he faces a Yokich or
whoever probably won't be Yokich. Can he do that? So
it's interesting because Tatum had this relationship with Kobe Bryant,
(08:08):
and Kobe Bryant could be a very selfish player, but
Kobe Bryant knew when to be unselfish. That's why he
ended up with five rings. He knew there were time
to get it to Shack. Kobe knew there were times
take the foot off the pedal, get it to Gasol.
Kobe love playing with bigs, and so with Tatum. I'm
really interested to see how this ends. They're gonna win
the East. The Knicks will probably push them five or six.
(08:28):
I think they're gonna win the East. They should win
the East, and Tatum is easy to play with. But
it's interesting to watch Luca with a high usage rate
being broken down and with Tatum, I get no holes
in his game. Before this year, Luca had a lot
of holes, mostly defense. With Tatum, he's a good defender,
he's good teammate, can hit a jumper, can drive score
at the rim, can hit a three. Not a lot
(08:50):
of holes in his game. Again, I just feel like
sometimes grab it now, you say, Colin, there's not the
perfect player, that's right. I mean Tatum is great, full
He's got a refined game. It's very complete. But it's
interesting to watch last night the heavy ball usage rate,
guy that you got to cover four on defense historically,
(09:10):
who is harder to play with, looks gassed. Tatum. You
wish he was a bit more selfish, say what you want,
but it's like he's conserving energy. Which one's gonna end better?
My guess is the Tatum. So am I being overly
critical of Jason Tatum for wanting him to be more
and maybe he won't have to be. But I do
feel like there'll be a moment in that Knick series
(09:31):
because they play such great defense that Jalen Brown will
be held in check, He'll be off. Porzingis may not
be healthy. And that's why a potential Celtics Knicks series
is so interesting to me, because I think you're gonna
need a forty six point game from him, maybe on
the road in New York, and I'm not sure. I
want to see if he can flip that switch. Here's
Tatum on the win last night.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
Not counting your defense. Seven of nineteen shooting and you
still put up one twenty even if you might be
not your best offensively, that you've got guys behind you
that can and step up and have big games.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
Really just what I've been saying all year. We got
a really really talented team.
Speaker 8 (10:07):
Shows the depth of.
Speaker 7 (10:08):
Our team and how we can win games in a
lot of different ways. Just presents another challenge of you know,
what else can you do to impact the game in
a positive way.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Now it is when I'm watching Jason Tatum j Max,
I really feel like this. I feel like he knows
I can conserve energy against Miami, I can conserve energy
against Cleveland. So it may be a very smart play
on his point, but having your best player as your
third leading scorer as you go into your second series
is different in the history of the league. That's just
(10:44):
not the way it usually works. And my take is
he's kind of just sitting back and waiting for the moment.
And that's why I think the New York Boston series
could be great. I would prefer the Tatum star over
the Lucastar. Easier to play with, always going to have
better chemistry, not a lobsided team. You don't have to
protect him on the defensive end. But it's but I
still do feel with Tatum sometimes I need forty six tonight,
(11:08):
and I think against the name, I don't think he's
gonna need that against Cleveland. They're gonna fly through Cleveland.
But the Knicks series, potentially if they beat Indiana, I think,
you know, we kind of think maybe they will. I
don't know if you do, but that's one one that
we're to me is the best potential playoff series left,
including the finals, will be that Knicks series that will
force Tatum to do it.
Speaker 9 (11:29):
Bronson, Yeah, it feels like the Knicks, the way they
play defense, their style will give the Celtics some problems
and that's gonna have to be Tatum to take over.
By the way, have you noticed remember early in the
NBA season the scoring was like laughable. Guys were scoring
one hundred and fifty two and people were like, this
is out of control. Sometime after the All Star breaks
some numbers came out. Then yes, yes, scoring is way
(11:50):
down and the rest are swallowing their whistles. And who
are the physical teams that are benefiting from this in
the postseason? Minnesota Minnesota, Oka se last night with the
doors or chamber New nixt So we're seeing a change. Quietly,
who can handle this physical play with the rest center.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Hey, well let them play. No, this is a great
observation by you. So the NBA All Star Game has
become embarrassing. And so the NBA was watching the scoring.
And I'll give Adam Silver credit on this. Baseball can
never make a move. Adam Silver and Roger Goodell to
both of their credit, watch the games, see an issue
(12:26):
and tweak it in season, as if a commissioner can't
do that. There was pushback, Well, it seems like you've
made a change. Anybody here own a business. What do
I have to wait till the end of the calendar
year to make a change, that's idiotic. Adam Silver looked
at There's no question they did this. There's no question.
Adam Silver looked at it and said, guys, the game
now is too easy. It's esthetically not as pleasing physicality
(12:48):
and hockey we like it. Football, we like it. We
like it in the NBA now. We don't want to
have the Detroit Pistons tackling people. But what is making
these games so intense is your life. It's physical and
by the way, it's just like if you ever play
basketball at the YMCA, it doesn't get snippy if everybody's
just jacking threes. It's when bodies start hitting down low.
(13:12):
That's when guys at the YMCA, well, think about the
NBA and what's what's at stake. So when you're watching
these NBA games the league right now, what they've done
to tweak it has been marvelous. It is physical basketball.
Still a lot of threes, but the physical basketball, to
your great point, is really benefiting then x well. The
(13:33):
defensive teams, the Celtics, the Knicks, ok Minnesota and Minnesota.
Speaker 9 (13:38):
I mean more than anyone. And the problem for Denver
is they haven't adjusted to it. And that's why in
Game two, they're losing their mind, complaining about calls. Michael
Malone running on the court. Denver has not adjusted to
this physical play. Minnesota's picking them up full court. I
don't know, if you know, they're like all in their
face and like they're just Denver's just bothered by this.
Minnesota adjusted well.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Chris Finch's coming on the.
Speaker 9 (13:59):
Show at today, I believe, like just very smart coach,
seeing what's coming around the corner and hey, let's adjust
our details.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
The question with Minnesota all year was the construction. When
they went with the two bigs, it was like, is
this gonna work. It wasn't that they didn't have good coaching.
I've said this over the course of the years. Why
we bring Finch on. They always look prepared, They never
get blown out, They adjust very well. But it was
always like roster construction. Conley's a little old and is
emerging two bigs. Now you look at it and you're like, oh,
(14:27):
you see their vision. They were building this puppy for Denver.
They were building this puppy for Jokic and Denver and size,
and it's like, oh, what a nightmare for everybody. By
the way, the Knicks lost Mitchell Robinson for the playoffs.
Speaker 9 (14:40):
Another guy three the top eight guys, how that.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
That eliminates any chance of beating like a like a
Minnesota And if they got to the finals, now they
got small suddenly.
Speaker 9 (14:49):
Well let's see tonight if we want to do wager's wagers,
what's Indiana getting tonight?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think three?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I would it's close. Well, all Nick games are close.
They win them all at home in the they're all closed.
Speaker 9 (15:00):
I want to take a look at the Pacers on
the money line tonight.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm sorry, Knox fans.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Hey can I can? I there's a there's a story
out about Jalen Brunson's putting up Jordan numbers, and I
have a take on that. Yeah, it's called The Herd.
I do take some stuff, So I got to take
on that good points today. You're carrying me. It's my
Jordan game, It's my flu game.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So I was vacationing last summer in a little place
in Rhode Island, and there's this little sandwich shop I
like to go to. And one of the reasons I
like to go to this sandwich shop is because I
can see the effort the employees and the owners put
into their work, Like it's just not your typical BLT
like I like companies where I can literally see their
(15:50):
dedication as a consumer, and I am loyal to those companies.
And there's been stories this week about Jalen Brunson has
now joined Michael Jordan in a very elite class of
NBA playoff scores, and Jalen Brunson is not Michael Jordan.
But I can watch as a consumer Jalen Brunson's game
(16:11):
and I can see the work he puts into it,
ball handling, floaters, finishing at the rim. The opposite of Mello,
who was a natural score day one in the NBA,
but I never felt added to it. Never became an
elite defender, even a good one, never became an elite
three point shooter. Mello came in naturally gifted, but I
(16:34):
never felt he was even in great shape. George Carl
complained about that there's a big difference. Jalen Brunson has talent,
but I always appreciate lebron In year twenty one. This
year had his best year shooting three pointers. Think about that.
Arguably the best player ever and Lebron is still working
(16:55):
on his craft with Mello. I just saw a long,
agile natural score with Jalen Brunson. I see the time
in the gym. Go to his college career. He averaged
nine and a half points a game at Villanova. They
want a natty. He was the fifth scoring option. Two
years later he was close to twenty a game as
(17:16):
they want a natty and he was the man that's work.
He was a completely different player in two years. Even
in these playoffs, his scoring average, this is remarkable, especially
for a smaller player. It goes up every quarter. That
is elite shape, elite cardio, elite work. I've said this
(17:37):
he and Tatum. He gets cleaner looks as a smaller player.
He has so many moves in his arsenal. And I
remember years ago watching a center name Akeem Olajuan, and
you would watch his footwork and you're like that dude
puts in time. Like that footwork Akeem had made other
(17:57):
set Go ask Shaquille O'Neal about guarding a keen. He
wrapped him in circles Dwight Howard had just as much
or more talent. He never developed a go to offensive
move outside of a dunk. That doesn't mean Dwight Howard
didn't practice or Mellow didn't. But you go to businesses
around this country, the really good ones, you can see
(18:19):
the effort at that sandwich shop you love, at that
breakfast place you're loyal to, at that airline you're more
willing to go to. When I watched Jalen Brunson, he's
not MJ, but MJ and Kobe were craftsmen. I mean,
Kobe and MJ had three or four moves each that
they mastered. Just weren't gonna stop him. Chris Paul's got
(18:41):
some of that. Chris Paul's not dunkan, not high flying
that behind the back, back, through the legs, mid range
fall away. I mean he's got that thing down. Patton
has for fifteen, ten, twelve, fifteen years. So that's what
I appreciate about Jalen Brunson. He's a second rounder. He's
not super vertical, he's not that game. That's craftsmanship, that's
just not going to the gym. We've all had that
(19:02):
person in our family. I work hard, I put in
forty four hours a week, and then you see the
employee that puts in sixty four Like, that's what I
see with Brunson, that dude has refined, polished outwork people
in the gym. Here's Jalen talking about how he views
his offense.
Speaker 10 (19:23):
I think, what can we do, how can we be aggressive?
How can we attack? And where can we get the
best advantage for our team? And has nothing to do
with me saying I need to hit this amount of points,
I need to hit this amount of shots. It's just
I'm reading how the game is being played and that's
just my mindset. That always That's how it always has.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Then really considering Dallas is like, yeah, this isn't right.
It feels like between Dallas and New York he's added
layers to his game. I mean that's that is putting
in the time. There's forty four forty six hour a
week guy, and then there's fifty eight sixty hour a
week guy. You can see the difference.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and neonon Eastern non a EM Pacific.
Speaker 11 (20:08):
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball.
We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's
more about the stories about what made these people love
their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way.
We talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell
you stories.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
You download it, you listen to it.
Speaker 11 (20:27):
I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with
Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, he's one of the smartest guys in the NBA.
He's led the t Wolves to three straight playoff appearances.
Seven different players on this team, despite having people as
good as Karl Anthony Towns, Rudy Gobern ant, seven guys
are averaging ten plus this postseason, which is the ultimate team.
Rudy Gobert said, I've never been on a team like
this where everybody cares about themselves. Chris Finch now joining
us live, So let's talk about building that culture, because
(21:01):
you know, they've always talked about heat culture and it's
a real thing. It's like the term Villanova guys, like,
it's a real thing. When I think of Minnesota and
how you get those players to play that length of
a season and yet are that committed defensively, it looks collegiate.
If it was that easy to get guys to do it,
(21:22):
everybody would do it. Tell me the buy in. Where
did the buy in start?
Speaker 12 (21:27):
As a coach, Yeah, I mean the buyan started really
in the offseason and in the preseason when we realize, like,
this is who we have to be if we want
to be any good. I mean we have we have
Rudy of course, defensive Player of the Year, but we
also have Jaden McDaniels, Nikhil, Alexander Walker, Anthony Edwards. These
(21:47):
guys are outstanding defenders in their own right. And if
we're not maximizing like those parts of their skill sets,
like we're not obviously playing to our strengths. And then
you know, Mike Connelly's got great experience, super competit that
they've been in the league a long time. And then
you know, developing the defensive kind of skills within Kat
(22:09):
and nasried guys who have like moved from the five
position to the four positions, of getting more comfortable with
playing in rotations and playing in different schemes and all
that kind of stuff. It's it's been a work in progress.
But if the want two is there, you know, these
guys care. They got a high care factor. It shows
their competitiveness and they understand that it's driven our success.
(22:30):
Like we had success right out of the gate today
this season we started I think seventeen and four, most
of it driven by our defense.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
So it's one of the things that continues to defeat itself.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
You know, Ant is there's a playfulness and a joyfulness
to his game that I think matters. I think sometimes
you know some NFL NBA guys, like what I love
about Patrick Mahomes is he's having a hell of a
time out there and he likes you to be part
of it. But he's demanding. When I watch ant Ants,
(23:02):
I mean, there's a little YMCA trash talk to him,
but he wants you to play hard. And I know
that sounds kind of ethereal and weird, but when I
watch Ant, even though he has the ball in his
hands a lot, I would want to play hard for
him because he plays so hard on the defensive end.
There is something about Ant that is contagious and I
(23:22):
don't know how to explain it, but that's what I
see when I watch him. Can you explain that?
Speaker 12 (23:27):
Yeah, Well, you've nailed it Colin. I mean, that's not
just him as a player, it's him as a person.
Like people when I first got here, they asked me,
can he be a good leader, And I said absolutely,
because he has this personality where people want to follow him.
Every leader has one thing in common, and that is
people follow him. It doesn't matter how they get it happen.
And so that's his personality off the floor as well
(23:47):
as on the floor. I mean, and as far as
as far as having fun, whether it's Mahomes or Anthony,
I mean, when you're the best player on the floor,
you're generally having fun. I mean, I mean every the
days when I was the best player on the floor
and basketball was a lot of fun to play. But
he has a joyfulness that he does play, and he's
competitive and he's demanding of his teammates that they bring
(24:11):
the same love of the game and energy, you know, and.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Also execution and those parts.
Speaker 12 (24:17):
He's still learning and starting to just now kind of
master some of that himself. And I think that's also
the thing that his teammates love about him, is that
he'll admit what he doesn't know. He'll admit when he's wrong,
and he's not looking to blame or point fingers anywhere else,
but take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know you obviously the players love you, so your
pro player, and you have to be I think in
pro sports. But I thought and I Adam Silver has
been more pro player than David Stern. I don't like
a reasonably small fine for Jamal Murray. I thought it
was a very reckless act, especially under the basket with
all the bigs. I think, hey, i'd probably say I'm
(24:56):
going to go into that n season tournament thing in
Dacia week or something. Then I don't know, I'm not
asking you to be the commissioner, but I thought that
that bothered me, and I like Jamal Murray. Have you
talked to it to your team? Maybe maybe it's a
compliment Christy you that you've got them so flustered and
ticked off that they're losing themselves. But now in retrospect,
(25:18):
how do you look at that moment?
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Yeah, I think you know, I'm in my opinion pretty clear.
The other day, I think it's it's it's inexcusable. It's
certainly dangerous. You know, I don't know if I've really
seen it before. I've seen some people slam water bottles
down and it's spilled out. But I've never seen kind
of a direct attempt to throw something on the floor
(25:40):
or near or at somebody.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Particularly in live play.
Speaker 12 (25:44):
I didn't expect the suspension, to be honest, Colin, I
I and I'm fine with that.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I don't think that.
Speaker 12 (25:51):
The league wanted to be able to, you know, to
have to decide anything based on players not playing, and
I'm fine with that.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
The monetary piece, you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 12 (26:03):
I think you know, Rudy had carried a big fine
for US earlier this season when doing something highly inappropriate.
So yeah, I didn't think too much of it. I'm
moving on. We'll expect Jamal to play, and we expect
him to play extremely well. You know, I was with
Jamal when he was a rookie in Denver. You know,
(26:24):
love him as a guy. He's super competitive, as you
can see. It's one of the things I love most
about him.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
He's clutch, he's he cares. You know.
Speaker 12 (26:33):
It's as strange as it sounds, it all comes from
the right place, you know. I didn't see it as catchulan.
I saw it as this is a competitive guy who's
trying to do everything he can to get himself going.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I want to circle back to the defense. Charles Barkley
said this, and I felt the exact same way. But
here's Barkley talking about your defense.
Speaker 8 (26:55):
We saw one of the best defensive teams I've ever seen.
You know, the stats don't lie. They are incredible defensively.
You talk about what even Rudy's not there, but on
the perimeter, their guarding everything led by ant Man. Their
best player is playing great defense, and the rest of
those perimeter players, even with Don Rudy Man, this is
(27:17):
one of the best defensive teams I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So it's interesting. You used to be able to hand
check lean on bigs, so it was actually easier to
play defense in the old days. More was allowed. It's
almost like the NFL. It's much easier to play defense
ten years ago. Then they took all the clutching, grabbing,
hitting over the middle. It's harder to play great defense.
You have to exert incredible energy because you can't direct people.
(27:41):
So I'm watching your defense the other night, and I'm
thinking in a weird way, and I appreciated Adam Silver
doing this. Chris, the NFL has always been able to
in season, they'll kind of adapt to things if they
see things happening with the rules. Adam Silver, I think
correctly said, guys, scoring is getting too easy. Let's let
these guys play. I think the products better in a
(28:03):
weird way. That benefited you in the Knicks greatly because
you both have the personnel to play defense. Do you
think it's possible that that little tweak didn't benefit the
Lakers in the war, it benefited your roster.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 12 (28:20):
I mean we're definitely, uh, we've always been defensive first
all season long, and really kind of what the way
I see it, Collin is like the last I don't know,
twenty five thirty games of the season felt a lot
like playoff basketball to me.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, so it was good.
Speaker 12 (28:37):
It was good for that, and you know it's good
for preparing those teams going into the playoffs with that
type of physicality.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
These players are so skilled and they're so smart.
Speaker 12 (28:46):
It was frustrating to watch, I think as a product,
to watch players game the game over the last five
six years. You know, they were they knew what files
they could easily bait. They were going to get them
every single time defensive had There's there's some files. You
couldn't do anything about it if the guy just launches
himself sideways into you. You know they're trying to and
I think that's where it started. And to me, it
(29:07):
makes a heck of a lot of sense. Just get
out of the game the things that aren't fouls, Like,
we shouldn't be able to trick the officials into calling
these things because we've we've put ourselves in a in
a corner with the rule book, and that's kind of
what happened.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Uh.
Speaker 12 (29:21):
The league has been asking questions over the last few years,
how do we bring defense back into the league, And then,
you know, my standard answer is just let us play it,
you know, just let let teams go back and play
it a little bit more and and allow some more
physicality in and around the ball.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
In particular.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Well, I would never rupture a pateell or tendon because
I'm not an athlete and I stay away from physical contact.
You as a ball or as an alpha is out
You're out there like a player. The players probably appreciate
Chris Finch is hot, You're like Luca. You're playing a
bit hurt, and how do the players react to your injury?
How's that played?
Speaker 10 (29:56):
In the room.
Speaker 12 (29:58):
Well, I mean, it's a ton of support and concern.
It's been great. And thank god it's.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
My knee and not Mike Conley's. You got hurt, that
was the biggest thing.
Speaker 12 (30:09):
And I, like you, Colin, have avoided playing pickup basketball
for the better part of thirty years to avoid such
a silly injury. So I happened to get it while standing,
you know, on the sidelines tonight. I couldn't get out
of the way. So my athleticisms failed me too.
Speaker 8 (30:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Stuff, when you get older, Chris, stuff breaks. It is.
It's just that's the way it works. Hey, get healthy.
Good luck. You got a game on your hands Friday.
The Nuggets are going to play hair on Fire, so
that's going to be crazy. And to congrats on all
your success. It's been a blast to watch.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
All right, appreciate it. Thanks Colin,
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