July 18, 2024 • 47 mins
Colin explains why Anthony Davis is clearly a better player than Joel Embiid as Embiid continues to struggle in his role with team U.S. before the Olympics begin. He believes Bronny James is living up to his draft position after a breakthrough game in the NBA summer league. Plus USC head coach Eric Musselman joins the show to talk about his time working in the NBA and the current state of college basketball vs the influx of international players to the NBA draft
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh here we go on eight Thursday. So many things
to talk and grumble about live in Los Angeles. It's
the Herd. I'm gonna roll up my sleeves here wherever
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. It's a workday,
(00:47):
not a dress up day. It's a work day. I'm
gonna roll my sleeves up. Jmax, literally and metaphorically right,
you're rolling the sleeves up.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
You're getting in the mud.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Here we go, So a JMA once again. Today we
have very light optimistic shirt. So Anthony Davis and Joel
Embiid are vying for a starting center spot on the
Olympic team that's gonna be in Paris. Uh, you know
(01:19):
it's gonna be in Paris by a week or two. Right,
have the Olympics, and so he got these games yesterday
against Serbia, and Embiid had the worst plus minus of
any player for Team USA. And Embiid you know France
wanted him on there to Everybody fought hard for him, right,
and he goes. Anthony Davis, by the way, has been
very subtle about even being included. His quote was about
(01:43):
the Olympics. I'd be happy to play if I'm asked.
And he has been an absolutely dominant figure when he's
been on the floor. But I've been I've said this
for years because the NBA is very much into esthetics
and style. I get. I get lectured for years about players.
Carmelo Anthony is unbelievable. He was a terrible defender, never
(02:08):
in elite shape, a complete isolation player, very few assists,
never made a teammate better, didn't do squat in the playoffs.
I was told Derrick Rose was going to dominate the league.
A highly efficient shooter, more turnovers than I'd like, and
hurt all the time. I'm sorry, he's not going to
(02:29):
physically dominate the league. I was told Westbrook's an MVP.
I thought he was a stat patter, bad hands, can't
shoot for a guard, hyper athletic, but played one speed
and often out of control. My eyes did not tell
me that Westbrook was an MVP and Carmelo was an
absolutely dominant player, or Derreck Rose was going to run
(02:53):
the league. And my eyes are telling me the same
for years. With Joel Embiid, I'm not denying he's got
a shack field to him, but Shaq won in the playoffs.
Shaq was dominant when it mannered. I'm watching this Olympic
stuff and Beiid gets in the way of the offense.
Anthony Davis doesn't. Hell. Anthony Davis took two shots yesterday
(03:13):
and was the second most dominating player in the game
to Steph Curry. He is literally jumps off the television set.
And here's the thing I like about AD and we've
seen this for years in Los Angeles. He can be
a star and dominate a game, but he's also an
incredibly complementary player. He elevates Lebron. Lebron doesn't have to
worry about defending the rim. He can be a complimentary
(03:36):
player on this Olympic team, or he can dominate moments
with Mbiid there is no complimentary to his game. He
forces you to play his style, and so does Steph Curry.
But I get four titles, and so did Lebron. But
I got eight straight finals with embiid. He forces you
(03:56):
to play his game, but I don't get the payoff
at the end of the season. He gets in the
way of the Olympic offense. And I find sometimes watching Philadelphia. Yes,
he's productive. So was Zach Levine and the Bulls can't
give him away, so was Carmelo, Anthony and Westbrook. They
didn't win in the playoffs. If you're talking about the
(04:17):
greatest bigs of all time, Russell titles, Kareem titles, Shack titles,
Akeeme titles, EMBID can't win a second round playoff series
in the weaker conference. So you know, again, I'm willing
to sacrifice things. Lebron does this a little. You gotta
kind of build your team around Lebron, but in his prime.
(04:40):
So what I'm going to the finals, Steph Curry, You're
gonna build some stuff and you're gonna have to sacrifice
a little defense with Steph Curry. All right, I'm getting
the like five six finals. I got four rings. I
don't get the payoff for Embiid. Once again, you're lecturing
me on how great he is. Now, greatness in the
(05:01):
NBA is May in June. Who gives a rip about
January and Cleveland. I want May and June success. I
get it with Steph. Like Magic Johnson wasn't a great defender,
but I got the PAF. He elevated everybody around him.
Magic could play center, he could play guard, of he
could do anything. Embiid, to me, is a great productive talent,
(05:26):
but he's closer to the Westbrook Carmelo, where I get
all this productivity. I'm lectured on how great he is.
I'm not sure he elevates anybody Like Carmelo. You had
to kind of run the offense around him. He was
kind of a rigid player, but he was an isolation player,
a bit of a hole if he gave him the
ball and he couldn't defend well. Again, there's limitations to
(05:47):
how much I'm going to sacrifice in life. I got
to get a payoff in the end, right, So I'm
watching this stuff. I'm watching Serbia, USA, Austriasa. Embiid is
not as dominant a player, as important a player as
complimentary a player as Anthony Davis, and I don't think
(06:09):
it's relatively close.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern n AM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You're now entering the Noble Zone sponsored by Credible Great
Rates none of the balls so lebron James had twelve
points last night. Early in the game at a seven
fifteen footer, Broni Bronnie. The crowd erupted, Bronnie James. Everybody
went freaking out. Bronnie James arrived. Influencers love the Marys
take a pictures of him. So for the record, he
(06:41):
has struggled offensively. Bronnie James has in the summer league.
But the number two pick in the draft on Tuesday
went over fifteen from the floor. Alex sar the number
two pick high ceiling over fifteen with several airballs. So
(07:02):
Brownie in a terrible draft. I defended as the fifty
to fifth pick. So just to keep score a little bit,
let's go to the second round of the draft and
let's take the player that was drafted right before Brownie.
How's he doing it right after? So the fifty fourth pick,
and Tom Watson is with the Celtics. He's had a
good summer league ten points, five rebound. Celtics who draft well,
(07:24):
really like him, great front office, really like him doing well.
But he will be a g leaguer. The player drafted
right after him was hurt. So let's go to the
fifty seventh pick. It's all rich chom Chi four points
a game. He has viewed very raw as a g leaguer.
(07:44):
So Brownie James hot cold, offensively mostly cold, nice little
defensive player, is you know, averaging about four or five
points a game and selling a bunch of merch? Is
it the end of the world? I mean to know,
in politics, clickbait, bad actors make a lot of money.
But is this really worth getting worked up over? The
(08:08):
player before him, g leaguer, the player after him, hurt
player after that g leaguer the number two pick, oh
for fifteen, much higher ceiling, but oh for fifteen. The
bigger issue for him is he's a six to one
and a half player and is not clearly not a
pure point guard, totally limiting his career. He is at best,
to me, a middle to back end of the rotation
(08:30):
defensive player.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Smart kid, athletic, can defend. Never going to be a fluid,
natural offensive player. Almost mechanical to me, that's what he is.
I'm sure his shot will get better, but his bigger
issue he's he's six one and a half and the
Lakers don't trust him to bring the ball up the floor. Now,
maybe they will eventually, but he at some point, you
got to be a point guard. At six one and
a half. You can be a defensive point guard, but
(08:54):
you got to be a point guard. But the fifty
fourth pick, the fifty fifth pick, the fifty sixth pick
that they saven in this draft, they're all G leaguers
and I mean could stay in the G league. It's
as if the critics are insisting the Lakers took him
as a lottery pick and are demanding and forcing him
to start at point guard. No, that's not what JJ
(09:16):
Reddick is doing. In fact, here's JJ Reddick on Brownie.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
He's a development player. That's how we're looking at Bronnie.
He's certainly going to spend time with the Lakers. He
will spend time as well in the G League. We're
going to develop his shot will develop his ball skills.
He's already got a great feel. He has a really
good instinctive nature on the defensive end.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yes, he does when you watch him play. He's got hops,
he's got some length, he's quick, he's athletic, got a
little bit of a football build. Almost He'll be a
defensive player, probably middle to back end of the rotation.
You have to remember, though, even Ray Allen came into
this league, he wasn't a great shooter. He developed into it.
I've always defended players who don't shoot early in their career.
(10:00):
Players come into this league as brilliant shooters. Hell, Lebron
James didn't have a lot of range when he came
into this league. Michael Jordan was never a great distant shooter.
So I'm gonna give Brownie a pass on the three
point shooting. I think, I mean, he's gonna develop into
a better shooter. But he's athletic, he's smart, he's a
hard worker, he can defend. I think he's fine. But
(10:21):
in this draft, he's been basically what we were told
he would be. Limited offensively, good defensive player, and a project.
The biggest issue with him is the one that Chris
Brussard mentioned yesterday.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
Project is the perfect word. You don't typically think of
six one guys as projects, but that's what Briani is.
What is really telling Colin is the fact that they
almost never have him bringing the ball up like he's
a six to ones player. He's gonna have the guard
point guards he's gotten obviously not the basketball Q of
(11:00):
his dad, but a solid, smart basketball IQ, and.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Yet they never have.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
They're not even attempting to have him learn point guard
at this point.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yes, and that's really the issue, because that's his only
way to work in this league. He's too small to
be a five, a four, or three or a two,
but he can. If he can defend the point on
a basketball team that's got scores at the two, three, four,
and five, then you got a shot to be a
back end of the bench project g leaguer, maybe at
(11:33):
some point a rotational NBA player.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter, not a Empacific, Hey Gang.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
This is Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast,
and every week we will have on leader from sports
entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade,
got Fiemmy, and also those who can help us in
between yours, anyone from a therapist to someone like Ed
Milette for John Gordon. We've all been through some sort
(12:05):
of adversity to get to the top. We've all used
different tools. Listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer and Mental
Wealth podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Ah Ride, Here we Go, Hour two and a Thursday
Ude Dead, It's the hurt. Wherever you may be and
however you may be listening, listening things for making us
part of your day. I got a bunch of good
stuff today, Albert Breer, bottom of the Hour, some good stuff,
some very very good stuff. J Mac Yeah, we were
(12:40):
just talking about this. There's so much negativity out there.
I don't even want to watch TV in October and November.
Oh my lord, you'll watch school Tis. Here's what you know.
Everybody always talks about how the economy. As you said
something during the break, you went to get your car fixed,
and they're like, sorry, three weeks. Places packed, go to
a restaurant any day of the week and anywhere there's
a line to get in. I don't know, maybe it's
(13:01):
just California, but sixty one percent of Americans are in
the stock market, one hundred and fifty eight million people.
It's at forty one thousand. Don't tell me the economy
is terrible. It may not be great. Don't tell me
it's terrible. Inflation down on a one. Oh, you fear monger.
You say, if the world is ending, unless you ride
with me, you got to back.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Me, listen to me.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And you know that's kind of where we are. It's
not pretty, not so. Jordan Love's going to sign a
contract here for the Packers very very quickly. I'm reading
a couple of stories here on the Bleacher Report. It
looks like it's pretty close. They're working on it, and
I would love to see about eight more starts. But
you know, I trust the Packers. They do quarterbacks well.
But here's the thing about Jordan Love. Green Bay maybe
(13:40):
knows and maybe they don't, but we don't know exactly
exactly what he is yet. We know he's talented. But
what is really interesting is that the Packers, according to PFF,
have about the thirteenth best roster in the league. So
we didn't have the Philadelphia roster, the San Francisco roster
where we question whether or not he's winning the game
(14:01):
or the rosters winning the game, right like the Niners
that roster, Detroit's roster stacked Kansas City. That's not what
Green Bay's roster is. And I looked at the schedule
this morning, and what is really cool about Jordan Love
and the Packers schedule take out Matt Stafford week five.
Outside of that, he basically faces the entire schedule is
(14:26):
one of his peers. I mean, Tua is he great?
Or is it the coach Purdy? Is he great? Is it?
The roster in Shanahan, c J Stroud one great rookie year,
Trevor Lawrence one great year, Jalen Hurts one great year.
We don't know what Jalen Hurts says yet. We don't know.
(14:47):
I don't really know. We know Stafford's great. But if
you look at this, we're gonna have a real sense
of what Jordan Love is. At the end of the year,
he's facing all of his peers. He gets to face
Caleb Williams twice. You know that's a game. Anthony Richardson,
will Levice, They're all super talented, but they're young, so
(15:08):
we don't know what they are. So this is not
a schedule that's got like Lamar Alan Mahomes, guys that
are clearly better than him, or rosters that are clearly better.
He's facing a lot of He's facing himself a lot
of good rosters and a lot of talented quarterbacks, but
we're not really sure if they're gonna be great. And
(15:29):
that's where I am with Jordan Love, really really talented
for about an eight to nine game stretch. I don't
know if he's gonna be great. I think there's a
real opportunity. Again, the kid says the right thing every
time he's asked a question the podium. He's got a
Dak Prescott quality, you know that Brady quality. Always good
at the podium, but really interesting if you look at
green Bay schedule, how it fares all his peers one
(15:54):
week after another. So most of the time, when it
comes to a football coach, there's like one opinion, Andy
Reid is great. Any other opinion than that, you're an idiot, Like,
we know he's great, right, And there's guys I don't
(16:14):
even need to mention their names and be mean spirited.
They just they're over their skis. We saw one in
the NFL last year out West, over your skis. But
generally you can have one opinion. Works the same in
college Nick Saban, great, you know Texas the last twenty
years had a lot of coaches that weren't great. You
(16:35):
usually have one opinion. Steve Sarkesan, the coach of Texas,
is one of the few coaches in proer college football.
You can have a strong opinion proer con and they're
both right. I like Sark I know sark but you
can have the opinion that And Nick Saban said yesterday,
(16:57):
what kind of tickles me all these people talk talking
about Texas always ran the conference they were in, they're
not going to run the SEC, which, by the way,
I agree. I think Bama, Georgia and Texas will run
the SEC. But you can be either side with sark
either side. I'll give you an example. The critics, well,
he was fired at USC and couldn't get his act together. Personally,
(17:22):
you're right, hey, one ten win season, win the big games,
pal all right, ain't can right on that one too,
Or you can say he was Pete Carroll's best offensive
coordinator Washington was oh and twelve, and he turned him
around in a season and a half. He is arguably
(17:48):
the first, second, or third best recruiter as a head
coach in college football. And oh, by the way, the
Texas Longhorns program was a tire fire. In the eleven
years previous to start getting there, they won ten games
or more once and that's a huge brand. Since he's arrived,
(18:08):
they've been better in every season he took them to
the playoff. They are stacked at multiple positions, and they
are completely relevant as a recruiting machine. All of those
are true. He is a great recruiter, a great offensive mind,
with tremendous energy, and he's got to win more big games.
(18:30):
And his teams at times outplay other teams and lose.
Sometimes they're a little situationally iffy. For the record, Kyle
Shanahan has been a little situationally iffy. And Andy Reid
got clobbered for years in Philadelphia in late games. He
couldn't manage the clock. I think coach is overtime networks
(18:52):
itself out. It's like fumbles in the NFL. Some years
you have a lot, some years you don't. I don't
think there's any science to fumbles or recovering them. So
I think you can go both ways on Sark, and
he's one of the few coaches you can have a
strong opinion pro or con. They're both kind of right.
He's at the SEC media days. I think Alabama Georgia
are the best teams along with Texas and that conference,
(19:12):
and here's Sark.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
In this conference. You got to have depth.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
If you don't have depth, then everybody wants to talk
about the O and D line. Yes, that's vitally important,
and I think we've got great depth there. You got
to have depth at quarterback. You have to have depth
at running back. You have to have depth at safety.
You have to have depth across the board. And for
us to be able to sit here and say this
is the deepest team we've had, probably the most talented
team we've had in my four years here, I can
(19:38):
unequivocally say that.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Now, I will tell you that I tend to root
for certain stories like and I'll tell you what I'm
rooting for. I don't necessarily think it's going to happen,
but in both cases it could be true. I kind
of want Oregon to win the Big Ten because it'll
freak everybody out Here comes the interloper. They're coming from
(20:00):
out west. They can't handle the physicality of the Big Ten.
And then Oregon beats Ohio State and Eugene runs the
table and Oregon could do it. Don't think they will
win the Big Ten. I think they'll finished second. But
that would be good for my business, the interesting business.
And I want to see Texas win the SEC because
the SEC is very tribal, very insular. Here comes here
comes Texas from the old, soft, squishy Big twelve. And
(20:23):
if they go into the SEC and win it, so
I am this year I try not to root. I
would love to see Oregon in Texas go into these
new conferences. They both are stacked at the nil stack
with NFL talent. Be honest, If a West Coast team
goes into the Big Ten and finishes a bubb Ohio State,
Michigan and Penn State, that's a great college football story.
(20:46):
And if Texas goes into Georgia Bama territory and wins it,
that's incredible for the sport. And I've said this for
a year. I love college football. I root for interesting
Texas going to the SEC and kicking our is awesome.
The last time a college football game got a massive
NFL rating USC against Texas. Texas is a massive brand
(21:13):
in college football. Smack dab right in the middle of
the country got a kind of a Pac twelve cool feel,
an SEC feel, but all Texas as well.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Eric Musselman is going to be joining us in the
last hour of the show today. Albert Breer is right
around the corner. What do you got planned for the
big weekend? How is this a big weekend? Well, I
have a you have a big weekend. I'm not going
to get an I've got I've got a party that
I will Actually it's on the beach out east. I'll
wear sunglasses. Are you impressed that I didn't ask you
about it? I'm waiting for a good moment of weakness.
(21:46):
Will you just tell me about it? I've been told
the party I'm going to is catered. Is this one
of those parties are like young hot people or like
an old person party? Young hot people. It's a party
with attractive people and lobster. It's very beachy and very northeast.
(22:08):
It's in like Boston. I'm not going to get into that.
But you're not doing anything this weekend.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
You know, schedules kind of wide open.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
We got our last regular season game for the Great Foxes.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
We're undefeated, we'll win.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
You know. My family gets back in town, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Probably go to the beach.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It's gonna be like eighty degrees, nothing too spicy.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well both, thanks for asking us. Well I didn't. There's
not room for you at this party. It's very private.
Need a pass code to get in.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Be
sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in
neonon Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Well, I really think you're going to like our next guest.
If you're a basketball fan, pro or college, you know
who Eric Musselman is. He's a new coach at USC.
He coached in the NBA. Is a head coat for
the Warriors and Kings. He was an assistant Magic, Hawks, Grizzlies,
t Wolves. He's coached under Chuck day Uh worked under
Jerry West. Now he's dealing doc rivers. Mike Furtello You've
(23:13):
got such a labyrinth of college and pro basketball stories.
One of the things I want to start with is
Jerry West, recently passed away. I can remember the Powe
gasol trade when they got Kobe got Paw Gasol, and
Jerry West was engineering this whole thing. I remember being
on a plane on the tarmac and I called a
(23:34):
friend and I said, did you see the Pow gasol trade?
Who engineered that? My buddy's like, I think it's Jerry West.
Jerry was the guy that told the Warriors move off Monte.
He's great, Go Steph. What was the secret sauce? Because
you're a basketball savant, I mean, that's your reputation intense,
(23:54):
you know the sport when you're around Jerry, to you,
what was the secret sauce with Jerry? What made him so?
I mean he obviously had a great experience ericep But
what was it like to be around him and pick
his brain?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Well?
Speaker 8 (24:09):
He was so competitive will the win was beyond belief.
Everybody in pro sports is pretty competitive, but he took
it to another level. In the draft room, he was
the most competitive person. I remember being a part of
two drafts with him, and the intensity in the.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Draft room was incredible.
Speaker 8 (24:27):
And then you look back at his time in Memphis,
which is when I had the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Work with him. Look at who he hired as a coach.
Speaker 8 (24:36):
It's Hubie Brown, and Hubie Brown had been out of
coaching for I think fourteen or fifteen years, so he
brought Hubie Brown out of retirement basically to coach. And
then when Huby retired, he brings Mike Vitella, who had
been out of coaching for seven years. And the reason
I thought that's so unique is Jerry West really pro player,
(24:57):
but he went out and got true coaches that were
not former players necessarily, and I always thought that was
really unique. But it's because he thought those two guys
were the best coaches at that time for the organization.
So his long term vision unbelievable. But I do remember
(25:18):
the first time I talked to him, I was coaching
the Warriors and there was a trade made, and all
of a sudden, a couple of days later, at the
secretary for the Warriors said hey, Jerry West is.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
On the line. I'm like, man, the logo, what you know?
Speaker 8 (25:31):
So I pick up the phone and he goes, hey,
so and so just got traded to you as a
young coach. I just want you to know you'll never
make it. You'll get fired. He'll get you fired.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Click. I'm like, oh wow, I'm.
Speaker 8 (25:44):
Thirty some years old, head coach in the NBA and
the logo just called me and told me the guy
we traded for is gonna get me fired.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And I had to coach the game. So but he
was pretty close to being right.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Let's talk. I asked you during the break. This fascinating.
I said, you coached in the end as an assistant
and a head coach. You were young, I said, and
you're known as a strategist. You are a guy that
is you're working the chalk both sides. You're working the refs,
you're working your team, you're working your assistance. Was there
ever a guy I asked you that was intimidatingly good
at strategy and the name you gave.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Was Hube Brown.
Speaker 8 (26:22):
I remember the first time we played Memphis when I
was with the Warriors. I told our staff we got
to be up at least nine or ten heading into
the two minute timeout because if not, we got no chance.
Because he was coach Brown was so great late game
and I had worked for him several years before that
(26:43):
and saw what he did in timeouts, the preparation and
how he could take a play pattern and alter it
on the fly and make it simple through his instructions
in the timeouts. Never seen anything like it in my life,
And so I knew then going against him, like, hey,
I cannot out coach this guy in the last two minutes.
(27:04):
And so I larned our staff like, hey man, we
gotta have DOUBLEG leader.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
What's over?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
You also coached under Chuck Daily, the legendary I mean
he was. He and pat Riley. They looked like CEOs,
the suits.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
The Coach Daily would let you know it too. He
would tell you get out of the mirror, I need
the mir space. Pregame like your assistant coach be, you know,
getting his tied done right, and Coach Daily'd walk right up,
I need the mirror, now move please.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Now he had that ego and the vanity and the gravitas,
but yet it worked and a lot of times players
would be turned off by that. What was something about
Coach Daily that was a marvel to you?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Well, he could always predict the future. It was absolutely unbelievable.
He would see things like he would say, hey, in
ten games, we're going to be super tired, and then
ten games would go by.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
And we'd be super tired.
Speaker 8 (27:58):
Like he could always fi you're out the nuances of
his team. The most amazing thing is he had this presence,
this air about him.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
But he really had no ego.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
It was unbelievable, Like he looked at himself like an
average guy. Now the dressing part was super important to
man and never every road trip.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
He wanted to go shopping every road trip, just like
mac So.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
But but in all reality he was a true players
coach like he in practice, he really believed in giving
the assistant coaches a voice. Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
He said that when he spoke in a huddle, he
wanted to be like E. F. Hutton.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
He wanted everybody to listen all ears towards him, so
he felt like they didn't need to hear his voice
all the time.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
That is really smart. He was really smart. So he
wanted he was a word efficiency guy, no question, assistance
can bark at practice. When I talk, it's game meaningful.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
No doubt.
Speaker 8 (28:55):
And he talked about how he broke down how many
meetings you truly have in a twenty four hour game day.
You think about all the timeouts, you think about pre practice,
you think about shoot around, you think about your forty
minute meeting, you think about your meeting at twenty minute.
So I said, all these meetings, think about how tired
the player's ears are of listening to the same voice,
(29:17):
so the same message over and over. So he was
really careful not to use a lot of words in
front of his players.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Guy, that's so smart. You know. Dan Hurley is the
coach of the moment in college basketball. I didn't think
the Lakers was a good fit, I said. Listen. When
I saw him at a Billy Joel concert a day
later with his wife, I'm like, he's a New Yorker.
He not coming out to La La La Land. But
I said, I didn't know, and I think he's great.
(29:44):
I said, I don't think Bill Belichick would have been
a good college coach, but yet I think John Gruden
would have been. Stylistically, you worked in both, I said,
I don't know if Dan has the patience or the
league has the patience for him as an NBA coach.
If you go look at Rhode Island, if you go
look at his jobs, he deconstructs. Lakers don't like lea
(30:07):
deconstruct job, right, they got Lebron and ad tell me that,
what do you think Hurley would have worked? And I
think he's the best college coach. Now, yep, you think
it would have worked in the NBA. Did he make
the right choice staying at Yukon?
Speaker 8 (30:21):
You know, I think his that's you know, his choice
is his choice. But I do think that any great
coach would come to find out really quickly that professional
sports is a players league and it's way more of
a partnership, and if if you don't turn it into
a partnership, you just cannot last in that league at all.
(30:42):
And I think coach Hurley is so smart and so
brilliant that he would have figured that out really really quickly, if.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
He wouldn't already know it.
Speaker 8 (30:50):
You know, I think that a lot of college coaches
that are thinking about the NBA level. I think if
you talk to enough NBA coaches, head coaches or assistant coaches,
I think you understand really quickly that you have got
to partner, especially with your star players, and if you don't,
you're just you're just not gonna make it, you know.
(31:11):
I mean the players are going to control so much
in that league, and for good reason.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
They are the star of the show.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I am a fan of college basketball. I do think,
in just my opinion, the NBA kind of with Adam Silver,
demonized it. And I always think college football is the
best microwave. So by the time a kid Tim Tebow
goes to the NFL, he's a household name. I know
Zion because of Nike and Duke. I have a feeling
that the NIL will keep a few players around, maybe
(31:43):
like a Zach Edy for one more year, and will
actually you'll be able to get a kid that may
have been a G leaguer And it's like Kansas is
gonna pay me four to fifty, I'm gonna go to Kansas.
That's I'm on the outside. I think the NIL could
actually fortify college basketball. It's still a revolving door of talent.
What do you think can the NIL? Because everybody laments
(32:06):
the NIL, but I think, to myself, could it actually
help the sport?
Speaker 8 (32:11):
I think it can help their sport with certain players.
But I think, you know, a year ago, we had
Anthony Black, who was a lottery pick, and there was
never a discussion with Anthony or his mother, Jennifer. There
was never a discussion about, hey, let's have Anthony come
back and he can make name, image and likeness because he's.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
A lottery pick. After one year, you're a one and done.
You got to go.
Speaker 8 (32:33):
But I do think for certain players that are maybe
marginal guys, because if you're talking about a player who's
a late second round draft pick, he's a star in college.
So I do think some guys that are borderline maybe
forty five to sixty picks, maybe those guys can participate
in college for one more year and have a little
(32:54):
bit more patience, and then when they're ready to go pro,
maybe they go from sixty to now thirty eight in
the in the following draft. And so if you can
have those conversations that make sense and a player can
make more money over time based on his draft value,
and then it also elevates a player when you look
at marketing opportunities once he does get to the NBA,
(33:15):
because let's face the facts, somebody like Carmelo Anthony when
he plays the one year at Syracuse, that elevates his
marketing as well. Oh, no question, same thing with Kevin
Durant at Texas. So I think college can be really,
really good. From a marketing.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Stand I totally agree.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
So I think there's some great things with it.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah. Plus the programs all have deals with Nike Adidas.
I mean, so you get you're going to get those
companies behind you as well. You know, it's really interesting
when it does appear to me the AAU system is
a bit broken. I tend to think America has the
most good basketball players, but the top five or six
guys in this league are increasingly international players. And I
(33:57):
don't think it's because our kids don't work hard or
not good people or good I think what happens is
the European system. Whereas it's an academy, Yep, you play
fewer games, the games mean more, you play against older players.
AAU is a million games on the weekend. It's all
about getting the bag. I think the system right now
(34:20):
is better in Europe than here. You can't, you know,
bad mouth AAU because you're recruiting it all the time.
But is there an argument to be made that the
European system, if we could tweak ours, that they do
some things better at a fundamental level early than we do.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
There's no question right now when you look at the
draft and if you go back crazy, yeah, it's crazy.
I mean you think about you know, thirty years ago,
you know the Atlanta Hawks and stan Casting were way
ahead of the game when when it was came to
evaluating overseas. And I remember the draft with Nowitzki. I
was in Orlando at the time and three weeks before
(35:00):
the draft, we did not know who Dirk was. That's
how far scouting and everything has come too. That wasn't
that long ago. But now the coaching overseas absolutely phenomenal.
Some of the best coaches in the world are not
coaching in the United States. And for so many years,
great American coaches went over their coach, did clinics, taught
(35:24):
the game the way that the Americans played. Now the
coaching we're stealing ideas and.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Schemes from them. It's amazing.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
Even NBA teams, there's a lot of NBA teams, Hey,
let's go get so and So to be an assistant
coach because he's so creative, offensive minded, and he's been
coaching in Italy or Spain or Serbia or wherever. And
then you think about the player and the level of talent,
right now, if you could project another ten to fifteen
years what the NBA draft's going to look like, it
(35:54):
might look a lot like baseball, where you're talking about
a lot of Dominican Republic players and you're talking about
a lot of Ande Whalen players dominating the draft.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
It might turn.
Speaker 8 (36:04):
That quickly with with with basketball as well, because it's
trending in that direction right now unless we can fix
some of the grassroots stuff that's going on here in
the US.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I gotta tell I used to cover Tark, so I
need you to be vulnerable here because I ask all.
Speaker 8 (36:18):
I roomed with Tark's son at the University of San Diego,
George Tarkan, Oh, George Dark Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So I I've said this before. I we love this game.
I wish I was an NFL GM. I thought Jan
Dixon out of Maryland was going to roll in the league.
I loved him, and I later found out he was
a tweeter. So there Don McClain, I was sitting with
Tark and I said he would played at seem Valley
or something and great legendary basketball player now a Clipper announcer.
(36:47):
I'm like Tark. I was watching them at a tournament Vegas.
I'm like, I don't get it. He doesn't jump, he scores.
It's I don't in. Tark's like he's gonna be all NBA.
So Tark knew his stuff, So I love. I'm ever
tell Mike Dunleavy, yell Meing's just another tall guy. He's like,
he's gonna be unbelievable. So I whipped a million guys,
give me a guy two of them that you spotted
(37:10):
early and wasn't a big recruit, but you really you
feel like it nailed him. And has there ever been
a great player that you didn't buy and you looked
up five years later and went, Wow, that kid had
a lot of heart and really made himself into something.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
I would say if I had to look back and
think about a player that maybe I didn't think was
gonna be a unbelievable player. I went Orlando Magic general
manager John Gabriel asked me to go watch Vince Carter
play against Bethune Cookman.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
In Daytona Beach.
Speaker 8 (37:45):
He could jump, And I went over there and I
watched him and he was always grabbing a body part,
you know, but and his athleticism was awesome. But I
was like I told Gabe, I said, I don't know
if he can really be an NBA All Star. And
that's the one guy that's why you can't go watch
a guy one time because obviously Vince Carter was unbelievable,
(38:07):
but it was a forty minute game. I watched him
play probably twenty some minutes because it was a blowout game,
and I came away and was like, I'm not sure,
and that I look back and said, boy, are you stupid?
Which is also why you've got to constantly call people
that are either coaching him in the training Jerry West secret.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
You have to now give me a guy that you found.
You guys all have somebody that you loved early.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 8 (38:33):
Say a guy that Darren Fox as a young player
of him him. I watched him for about thirty seconds,
and I don't know where he was ranked at the
time because I had just entered college basketball, but I
remember watching him. It took like two or three minutes
to say, this guy is just different. He's on a
(38:54):
whole other level. And I think that the more you
do this college recruiting stuff, the stars that are just
guys that are going to be lottery picks. They're easy.
You don't have to convince yourself that they're good. Right,
You automatically can say that guy's going to be a
lottery pick. And there's not many, but when you see it,
(39:14):
you kind of know it and feel it.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You've coached at Nevada, Arkansas and now USC. It is
a big city, big city media, big city restaurants. Are
LA kids just naturally a little softer, a little more entitled.
I heard years ago a college football coach said, you
come out here. They all got two iPhones in LA
and they got cool shoes and they're all stylish. And
(39:37):
I'm like, he goes, that's not like what they're like
in you know, Wichita State is recruiting an LA kid.
Different at USC.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
I don't really think so.
Speaker 8 (39:46):
I mean I look at you know, when we first
got started at Nevada, the first place I went to
was LA and we ended up getting Lindsey Drew, who
was the starting point guard for us for four years.
And he was an LA kid, and yeah, he has
a cool factor to him, for sure, but his dad
was an NBA head coach, and we felt like the
(40:07):
LA market because of who you're playing against as a
high school player, and local AAU events. As a really
young player, meaning second, third, fourth grade, they're exposed to
so many great players at a young age that we
actually felt like it's an unbelievable market. And now obviously
being at USC, now it's got to be a great
(40:28):
market for US.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, Eric Musselman joining us. You've coached in the D League,
the Mountain West, the NBA. You've coached Chuck Daily, Doc Rivers,
Mike Fratello. You've coached Penny Hardaway, Rashid Wallace, Scottie, Pippen, Powell, Gasol.
Gasol was a fascinating.
Speaker 8 (40:46):
Player, unbelievable offensive player, and a unbelievable IQ was. He
was an underrated passer and when you can find a
player that makes Kobe loved him, Oh for a good reason,
because everyone loved playing with him. He was un selfish,
He was a great locker room guy, super ego lists
and was fun to be around. Like he had energy
(41:09):
that you were like, Hey, I want to go hang
out with Pau Gasol.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah. You know, somebody told me that Penny Hardaway had
the best pre NBA workout. Kobe and Penny Hardaway had
the two best. Now, when were you and Penny together.
Speaker 8 (41:22):
Yes, so it was would have been Pennies. I think
maybe third year because because he played for Brian.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Hill with the Nick Anderson Shack. Yes, Dennis Scott no,
maybe not.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
I think Dennis was with him, yes, and then I
joined the Magic with Chuck Daily, so that was Chuck's year,
and then I was also with the Magic when Doc
came his first year.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
But Penny was.
Speaker 8 (41:47):
Part of the year with with Coach Dale and it
was Nick Anderson, Horace Graham.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Somebody told me he did things in practice that were insane.
Speaker 8 (41:55):
Because he was Now we talk about positionless players, he
was the guy that was the positionless player that could
play the point that he could guard a four man.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
He had unbelievable vision, you.
Speaker 8 (42:09):
Know, like when you're an NBA assistant, you're like, I
can't wait for the tip off to see what this
guy does. Penny was one of those guys. So was
Jason Williams. White Chocolate was like when I was with him,
I couldn't wait for the game to start because it
was like, this man's gonna.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Put on a show, you Matt, and you never knew
what he was.
Speaker 8 (42:27):
Going to do, and there's all you know, there's these
certain guys that just have incredible flare, and Penny was
certainly one of them.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Juju Watkins usc basketball star, women's basketball star. If I'd
never seen the play, tell me, tell me about the game,
her game.
Speaker 8 (42:45):
I mean, she's well, first of all, she's the biggest
star on campus.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 8 (42:50):
And that's super cool when you think about women's athletics
that Juju is a national brand right now.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
So any scout, I'm I'm your I want you to
go scout Juju. Well, Eric, tell me about her.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
She can do everything.
Speaker 8 (43:07):
I mean, she she can draw free throws attempted, she
can make threes. You talk about a player on a
big stage as a freshman that could take her team
as far.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
As she did.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
How she uses her body.
Speaker 8 (43:22):
She's got unbelievable body control, she can finish through contact,
she can seek contact for free throws attempted, stretch the
defense out with three point shooting. Just had a phenomenal,
phenomenal freshman year. And the shirt I got on this
is actually a Juju Watkins shirt from the bookstore. I
(43:43):
went and I'm like, man, that's a great logo. You know,
I'm in the bookstore looking for stuff. I looked at
the price tager, I'm.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Like, wow, like it's one hundred dollars T shirt. And
then I looked at Hey, it's Juju Watkins shirt. Let's
get this thing.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
By the way, you're fifty nine and look great. You've
got incredible energy. I think a lot of that from
what I've heard. I talked to people, told them you
were coming on the show. You really love what you do.
You have a great energy. Now I know you have
to get on a plane and recruit. Is recruiting easier
or harder today?
Speaker 8 (44:13):
Well, I've only been doing it for ten years, you know, collegiately,
so I would say that it's become harder each year
that I've been a part of it. You know, when
I was at Nevada, you had to sit out when
you transferred, so we had a great formula. We felt like, hey,
we always want four sitout guys that we can develop
and have patience with. And then we also that means
you only got eight or nine guys on your active rosters,
(44:35):
so they're all happy, So your locker room is easier.
One thing that I don't think people are talking enough
about with this, you don't have to sit out transfer wise.
Now you have thirteen guys on scholarship, there's always going
to be three or four guys that are unhappy.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
So what is your locker room like?
Speaker 8 (44:50):
And it also there's more guys now not playing and
they're losing eligibility while they're not on the floor. When
you had to sit out thing and you and you
sat for a year, then you got the you know,
more guys were playing minutes then, and so I think
that's a little bit of development piece because really the
only way to get better, truly is to get significant minutes.
(45:11):
That's how you improve as a player, where you can
learn on the fly, and you can learn through mistakes
and you can play through mistakes. And with thirteen active
players on a roster, becomes more challenging to let guys
play through their mistakes. But when you have four guys
sitting out, you have no choice. You're rolling with a
core group of seven or eight guys. And I think
(45:32):
guys got better that way.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Jay Wright would get three star guys from the DMV,
build them, they'd stay in college. It was great chemistry.
John Calipari went one and done. That's a way to
do it. If you were at a Kentucky like where
you can do either way, what would you prefer?
Speaker 3 (45:47):
I think you got to have a blend.
Speaker 8 (45:49):
I think that, you know, when I look back at
the group that I had a year ago at Arkansas,
a team that got us to the Sweet sixteen, we
had three freshmen that were one and done's, and I
love that formula. I think if you get a freshman
who's really really talented and is going to be able
to play in the NBA in eight months, what a
challenge as a coach to say, man, I owe, there's
(46:11):
an obligation to make sure this player gets drafted higher
than what's anticipated.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
That's a great challenge.
Speaker 8 (46:18):
It's also an incredible responsibility for a coaching staff when
a parent, you know, says, hey, we want this young
man to be developed, to get him ready for the
next level, and you got eight months to do it.
And I look back a couple of years ago with
Moses Moody, who was a lot of a pick. He
led us to an Elite eight And the thing that
(46:39):
I've learned is you got to let those guys play.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Early on, and then when you get to March.
Speaker 8 (46:45):
Then you'll get the payback. And it might not happen
right away. In non conference, you might see a team
slip up a little bit if they're playing a young
guy that's going to be a one and done. But
you certainly hope come March madness that those players can
lead you because in all reality, you can't win without
star players, and without players that are you got to
win in college with NBA prospects or your just marginal team.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, I got burned a few years ago. I watched
Kansas in December and they had some one and donners
and I'm like, they're terrible, and then three months later
they're smoking people. To your point, these kids got to grow.
I just felt like I went graduate seminar of basketball.
Eric Musselman, USC basketball coach, What a pleasure to finally
meet you. You've had a remarkable career, fascinating kick but
(47:29):
at USC.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Man, Thanks Colin, appreciate you having me out. It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
You bet take a break back in a second. The
Herd
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh here we go on eight Thursday. So many things
to talk and grumble about live in Los Angeles. It's
the Herd. I'm gonna roll up my sleeves here wherever
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. It's a workday,
(00:47):
not a dress up day. It's a work day. I'm
gonna roll my sleeves up. Jmax, literally and metaphorically right,
you're rolling the sleeves up.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
You're getting in the mud.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Here we go, So a JMA once again. Today we
have very light optimistic shirt. So Anthony Davis and Joel
Embiid are vying for a starting center spot on the
Olympic team that's gonna be in Paris. Uh, you know
(01:19):
it's gonna be in Paris by a week or two. Right,
have the Olympics, and so he got these games yesterday
against Serbia, and Embiid had the worst plus minus of
any player for Team USA. And Embiid you know France
wanted him on there to Everybody fought hard for him, right,
and he goes. Anthony Davis, by the way, has been
very subtle about even being included. His quote was about
(01:43):
the Olympics. I'd be happy to play if I'm asked.
And he has been an absolutely dominant figure when he's
been on the floor. But I've been I've said this
for years because the NBA is very much into esthetics
and style. I get. I get lectured for years about players.
Carmelo Anthony is unbelievable. He was a terrible defender, never
(02:08):
in elite shape, a complete isolation player, very few assists,
never made a teammate better, didn't do squat in the playoffs.
I was told Derrick Rose was going to dominate the league.
A highly efficient shooter, more turnovers than I'd like, and
hurt all the time. I'm sorry, he's not going to
(02:29):
physically dominate the league. I was told Westbrook's an MVP.
I thought he was a stat patter, bad hands, can't
shoot for a guard, hyper athletic, but played one speed
and often out of control. My eyes did not tell
me that Westbrook was an MVP and Carmelo was an
absolutely dominant player, or Derreck Rose was going to run
(02:53):
the league. And my eyes are telling me the same
for years. With Joel Embiid, I'm not denying he's got
a shack field to him, but Shaq won in the playoffs.
Shaq was dominant when it mannered. I'm watching this Olympic
stuff and Beiid gets in the way of the offense.
Anthony Davis doesn't. Hell. Anthony Davis took two shots yesterday
(03:13):
and was the second most dominating player in the game
to Steph Curry. He is literally jumps off the television set.
And here's the thing I like about AD and we've
seen this for years in Los Angeles. He can be
a star and dominate a game, but he's also an
incredibly complementary player. He elevates Lebron. Lebron doesn't have to
worry about defending the rim. He can be a complimentary
(03:36):
player on this Olympic team, or he can dominate moments
with Mbiid there is no complimentary to his game. He
forces you to play his style, and so does Steph Curry.
But I get four titles, and so did Lebron. But
I got eight straight finals with embiid. He forces you
(03:56):
to play his game, but I don't get the payoff
at the end of the season. He gets in the
way of the Olympic offense. And I find sometimes watching Philadelphia. Yes,
he's productive. So was Zach Levine and the Bulls can't
give him away, so was Carmelo, Anthony and Westbrook. They
didn't win in the playoffs. If you're talking about the
(04:17):
greatest bigs of all time, Russell titles, Kareem titles, Shack titles,
Akeeme titles, EMBID can't win a second round playoff series
in the weaker conference. So you know, again, I'm willing
to sacrifice things. Lebron does this a little. You gotta
kind of build your team around Lebron, but in his prime.
(04:40):
So what I'm going to the finals, Steph Curry, You're
gonna build some stuff and you're gonna have to sacrifice
a little defense with Steph Curry. All right, I'm getting
the like five six finals. I got four rings. I
don't get the payoff for Embiid. Once again, you're lecturing
me on how great he is. Now, greatness in the
(05:01):
NBA is May in June. Who gives a rip about
January and Cleveland. I want May and June success. I
get it with Steph. Like Magic Johnson wasn't a great defender,
but I got the PAF. He elevated everybody around him.
Magic could play center, he could play guard, of he
could do anything. Embiid, to me, is a great productive talent,
(05:26):
but he's closer to the Westbrook Carmelo, where I get
all this productivity. I'm lectured on how great he is.
I'm not sure he elevates anybody Like Carmelo. You had
to kind of run the offense around him. He was
kind of a rigid player, but he was an isolation player,
a bit of a hole if he gave him the
ball and he couldn't defend well. Again, there's limitations to
(05:47):
how much I'm going to sacrifice in life. I got
to get a payoff in the end, right, So I'm
watching this stuff. I'm watching Serbia, USA, Austriasa. Embiid is
not as dominant a player, as important a player as
complimentary a player as Anthony Davis, and I don't think
(06:09):
it's relatively close.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Speaker 1 (06:20):
You're now entering the Noble Zone sponsored by Credible Great
Rates none of the balls so lebron James had twelve
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take a pictures of him. So for the record, he
(06:41):
has struggled offensively. Bronnie James has in the summer league.
But the number two pick in the draft on Tuesday
went over fifteen from the floor. Alex sar the number
two pick high ceiling over fifteen with several airballs. So
(07:02):
Brownie in a terrible draft. I defended as the fifty
to fifth pick. So just to keep score a little bit,
let's go to the second round of the draft and
let's take the player that was drafted right before Brownie.
How's he doing it right after? So the fifty fourth pick,
and Tom Watson is with the Celtics. He's had a
good summer league ten points, five rebound. Celtics who draft well,
(07:24):
really like him, great front office, really like him doing well.
But he will be a g leaguer. The player drafted
right after him was hurt. So let's go to the
fifty seventh pick. It's all rich chom Chi four points
a game. He has viewed very raw as a g leaguer.
(07:44):
So Brownie James hot cold, offensively mostly cold, nice little
defensive player, is you know, averaging about four or five
points a game and selling a bunch of merch? Is
it the end of the world? I mean to know,
in politics, clickbait, bad actors make a lot of money.
But is this really worth getting worked up over? The
(08:08):
player before him, g leaguer, the player after him, hurt
player after that g leaguer the number two pick, oh
for fifteen, much higher ceiling, but oh for fifteen. The
bigger issue for him is he's a six to one
and a half player and is not clearly not a
pure point guard, totally limiting his career. He is at best,
to me, a middle to back end of the rotation
(08:30):
defensive player.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Smart kid, athletic, can defend. Never going to be a fluid,
natural offensive player. Almost mechanical to me, that's what he is.
I'm sure his shot will get better, but his bigger
issue he's he's six one and a half and the
Lakers don't trust him to bring the ball up the floor. Now,
maybe they will eventually, but he at some point, you
got to be a point guard. At six one and
a half. You can be a defensive point guard, but
(08:54):
you got to be a point guard. But the fifty
fourth pick, the fifty fifth pick, the fifty sixth pick
that they saven in this draft, they're all G leaguers
and I mean could stay in the G league. It's
as if the critics are insisting the Lakers took him
as a lottery pick and are demanding and forcing him
to start at point guard. No, that's not what JJ
(09:16):
Reddick is doing. In fact, here's JJ Reddick on Brownie.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
He's a development player. That's how we're looking at Bronnie.
He's certainly going to spend time with the Lakers. He
will spend time as well in the G League. We're
going to develop his shot will develop his ball skills.
He's already got a great feel. He has a really
good instinctive nature on the defensive end.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yes, he does when you watch him play. He's got hops,
he's got some length, he's quick, he's athletic, got a
little bit of a football build. Almost He'll be a
defensive player, probably middle to back end of the rotation.
You have to remember, though, even Ray Allen came into
this league, he wasn't a great shooter. He developed into it.
I've always defended players who don't shoot early in their career.
(10:00):
Players come into this league as brilliant shooters. Hell, Lebron
James didn't have a lot of range when he came
into this league. Michael Jordan was never a great distant shooter.
So I'm gonna give Brownie a pass on the three
point shooting. I think, I mean, he's gonna develop into
a better shooter. But he's athletic, he's smart, he's a
hard worker, he can defend. I think he's fine. But
(10:21):
in this draft, he's been basically what we were told
he would be. Limited offensively, good defensive player, and a project.
The biggest issue with him is the one that Chris
Brussard mentioned yesterday.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
Project is the perfect word. You don't typically think of
six one guys as projects, but that's what Briani is.
What is really telling Colin is the fact that they
almost never have him bringing the ball up like he's
a six to ones player. He's gonna have the guard
point guards he's gotten obviously not the basketball Q of
(11:00):
his dad, but a solid, smart basketball IQ, and.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
Yet they never have.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
They're not even attempting to have him learn point guard
at this point.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yes, and that's really the issue, because that's his only
way to work in this league. He's too small to
be a five, a four, or three or a two,
but he can. If he can defend the point on
a basketball team that's got scores at the two, three, four,
and five, then you got a shot to be a
back end of the bench project g leaguer, maybe at
(11:33):
some point a rotational NBA player.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter, not a Empacific, Hey Gang.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
This is Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast,
and every week we will have on leader from sports
entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade,
got Fiemmy, and also those who can help us in
between yours, anyone from a therapist to someone like Ed
Milette for John Gordon. We've all been through some sort
(12:05):
of adversity to get to the top. We've all used
different tools. Listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer and Mental
Wealth podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Ah Ride, Here we Go, Hour two and a Thursday
Ude Dead, It's the hurt. Wherever you may be and
however you may be listening, listening things for making us
part of your day. I got a bunch of good
stuff today, Albert Breer, bottom of the Hour, some good stuff,
some very very good stuff. J Mac Yeah, we were
(12:40):
just talking about this. There's so much negativity out there.
I don't even want to watch TV in October and November.
Oh my lord, you'll watch school Tis. Here's what you know.
Everybody always talks about how the economy. As you said
something during the break, you went to get your car fixed,
and they're like, sorry, three weeks. Places packed, go to
a restaurant any day of the week and anywhere there's
a line to get in. I don't know, maybe it's
(13:01):
just California, but sixty one percent of Americans are in
the stock market, one hundred and fifty eight million people.
It's at forty one thousand. Don't tell me the economy
is terrible. It may not be great. Don't tell me
it's terrible. Inflation down on a one. Oh, you fear monger.
You say, if the world is ending, unless you ride
with me, you got to back.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Me, listen to me.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And you know that's kind of where we are. It's
not pretty, not so. Jordan Love's going to sign a
contract here for the Packers very very quickly. I'm reading
a couple of stories here on the Bleacher Report. It
looks like it's pretty close. They're working on it, and
I would love to see about eight more starts. But
you know, I trust the Packers. They do quarterbacks well.
But here's the thing about Jordan Love. Green Bay maybe
(13:40):
knows and maybe they don't, but we don't know exactly
exactly what he is yet. We know he's talented. But
what is really interesting is that the Packers, according to PFF,
have about the thirteenth best roster in the league. So
we didn't have the Philadelphia roster, the San Francisco roster
where we question whether or not he's winning the game
(14:01):
or the rosters winning the game, right like the Niners
that roster, Detroit's roster stacked Kansas City. That's not what
Green Bay's roster is. And I looked at the schedule
this morning, and what is really cool about Jordan Love
and the Packers schedule take out Matt Stafford week five.
Outside of that, he basically faces the entire schedule is
(14:26):
one of his peers. I mean, Tua is he great?
Or is it the coach Purdy? Is he great? Is it?
The roster in Shanahan, c J Stroud one great rookie year,
Trevor Lawrence one great year, Jalen Hurts one great year.
We don't know what Jalen Hurts says yet. We don't know.
(14:47):
I don't really know. We know Stafford's great. But if
you look at this, we're gonna have a real sense
of what Jordan Love is. At the end of the year,
he's facing all of his peers. He gets to face
Caleb Williams twice. You know that's a game. Anthony Richardson,
will Levice, They're all super talented, but they're young, so
(15:08):
we don't know what they are. So this is not
a schedule that's got like Lamar Alan Mahomes, guys that
are clearly better than him, or rosters that are clearly better.
He's facing a lot of He's facing himself a lot
of good rosters and a lot of talented quarterbacks, but
we're not really sure if they're gonna be great. And
(15:29):
that's where I am with Jordan Love, really really talented
for about an eight to nine game stretch. I don't
know if he's gonna be great. I think there's a
real opportunity. Again, the kid says the right thing every
time he's asked a question the podium. He's got a
Dak Prescott quality, you know that Brady quality. Always good
at the podium, but really interesting if you look at
green Bay schedule, how it fares all his peers one
(15:54):
week after another. So most of the time, when it
comes to a football coach, there's like one opinion, Andy
Reid is great. Any other opinion than that, you're an idiot, Like,
we know he's great, right, And there's guys I don't
(16:14):
even need to mention their names and be mean spirited.
They just they're over their skis. We saw one in
the NFL last year out West, over your skis. But
generally you can have one opinion. Works the same in
college Nick Saban, great, you know Texas the last twenty
years had a lot of coaches that weren't great. You
(16:35):
usually have one opinion. Steve Sarkesan, the coach of Texas,
is one of the few coaches in proer college football.
You can have a strong opinion proer con and they're
both right. I like Sark I know sark but you
can have the opinion that And Nick Saban said yesterday,
(16:57):
what kind of tickles me all these people talk talking
about Texas always ran the conference they were in, they're
not going to run the SEC, which, by the way,
I agree. I think Bama, Georgia and Texas will run
the SEC. But you can be either side with sark
either side. I'll give you an example. The critics, well,
he was fired at USC and couldn't get his act together. Personally,
(17:22):
you're right, hey, one ten win season, win the big games,
pal all right, ain't can right on that one too,
Or you can say he was Pete Carroll's best offensive
coordinator Washington was oh and twelve, and he turned him
around in a season and a half. He is arguably
(17:48):
the first, second, or third best recruiter as a head
coach in college football. And oh, by the way, the
Texas Longhorns program was a tire fire. In the eleven
years previous to start getting there, they won ten games
or more once and that's a huge brand. Since he's arrived,
(18:08):
they've been better in every season he took them to
the playoff. They are stacked at multiple positions, and they
are completely relevant as a recruiting machine. All of those
are true. He is a great recruiter, a great offensive mind,
with tremendous energy, and he's got to win more big games.
(18:30):
And his teams at times outplay other teams and lose.
Sometimes they're a little situationally iffy. For the record, Kyle
Shanahan has been a little situationally iffy. And Andy Reid
got clobbered for years in Philadelphia in late games. He
couldn't manage the clock. I think coach is overtime networks
(18:52):
itself out. It's like fumbles in the NFL. Some years
you have a lot, some years you don't. I don't
think there's any science to fumbles or recovering them. So
I think you can go both ways on Sark, and
he's one of the few coaches you can have a
strong opinion pro or con. They're both kind of right.
He's at the SEC media days. I think Alabama Georgia
are the best teams along with Texas and that conference,
(19:12):
and here's Sark.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
In this conference. You got to have depth.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
If you don't have depth, then everybody wants to talk
about the O and D line. Yes, that's vitally important,
and I think we've got great depth there. You got
to have depth at quarterback. You have to have depth
at running back. You have to have depth at safety.
You have to have depth across the board. And for
us to be able to sit here and say this
is the deepest team we've had, probably the most talented
team we've had in my four years here, I can
(19:38):
unequivocally say that.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Now, I will tell you that I tend to root
for certain stories like and I'll tell you what I'm
rooting for. I don't necessarily think it's going to happen,
but in both cases it could be true. I kind
of want Oregon to win the Big Ten because it'll
freak everybody out Here comes the interloper. They're coming from
(20:00):
out west. They can't handle the physicality of the Big Ten.
And then Oregon beats Ohio State and Eugene runs the
table and Oregon could do it. Don't think they will
win the Big Ten. I think they'll finished second. But
that would be good for my business, the interesting business.
And I want to see Texas win the SEC because
the SEC is very tribal, very insular. Here comes here
comes Texas from the old, soft, squishy Big twelve. And
(20:23):
if they go into the SEC and win it, so
I am this year I try not to root. I
would love to see Oregon in Texas go into these
new conferences. They both are stacked at the nil stack
with NFL talent. Be honest, If a West Coast team
goes into the Big Ten and finishes a bubb Ohio State,
Michigan and Penn State, that's a great college football story.
(20:46):
And if Texas goes into Georgia Bama territory and wins it,
that's incredible for the sport. And I've said this for
a year. I love college football. I root for interesting
Texas going to the SEC and kicking our is awesome.
The last time a college football game got a massive
NFL rating USC against Texas. Texas is a massive brand
(21:13):
in college football. Smack dab right in the middle of
the country got a kind of a Pac twelve cool feel,
an SEC feel, but all Texas as well.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
J Mack.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Eric Musselman is going to be joining us in the
last hour of the show today. Albert Breer is right
around the corner. What do you got planned for the
big weekend? How is this a big weekend? Well, I
have a you have a big weekend. I'm not going
to get an I've got I've got a party that
I will Actually it's on the beach out east. I'll
wear sunglasses. Are you impressed that I didn't ask you
about it? I'm waiting for a good moment of weakness.
(21:46):
Will you just tell me about it? I've been told
the party I'm going to is catered. Is this one
of those parties are like young hot people or like
an old person party? Young hot people. It's a party
with attractive people and lobster. It's very beachy and very northeast.
(22:08):
It's in like Boston. I'm not going to get into that.
But you're not doing anything this weekend.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
You know, schedules kind of wide open.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
We got our last regular season game for the Great Foxes.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
We're undefeated, we'll win.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
You know. My family gets back in town, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Probably go to the beach.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It's gonna be like eighty degrees, nothing too spicy.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well both, thanks for asking us. Well I didn't. There's
not room for you at this party. It's very private.
Need a pass code to get in.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like. Be
sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in
neonon Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Well, I really think you're going to like our next guest.
If you're a basketball fan, pro or college, you know
who Eric Musselman is. He's a new coach at USC.
He coached in the NBA. Is a head coat for
the Warriors and Kings. He was an assistant Magic, Hawks, Grizzlies,
t Wolves. He's coached under Chuck day Uh worked under
Jerry West. Now he's dealing doc rivers. Mike Furtello You've
(23:13):
got such a labyrinth of college and pro basketball stories.
One of the things I want to start with is
Jerry West, recently passed away. I can remember the Powe
gasol trade when they got Kobe got Paw Gasol, and
Jerry West was engineering this whole thing. I remember being
on a plane on the tarmac and I called a
(23:34):
friend and I said, did you see the Pow gasol trade?
Who engineered that? My buddy's like, I think it's Jerry West.
Jerry was the guy that told the Warriors move off Monte.
He's great, Go Steph. What was the secret sauce? Because
you're a basketball savant, I mean, that's your reputation intense,
(23:54):
you know the sport when you're around Jerry, to you,
what was the secret sauce with Jerry? What made him so?
I mean he obviously had a great experience ericep But
what was it like to be around him and pick
his brain?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Well?
Speaker 8 (24:09):
He was so competitive will the win was beyond belief.
Everybody in pro sports is pretty competitive, but he took
it to another level. In the draft room, he was
the most competitive person. I remember being a part of
two drafts with him, and the intensity in the.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Draft room was incredible.
Speaker 8 (24:27):
And then you look back at his time in Memphis,
which is when I had the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Work with him. Look at who he hired as a coach.
Speaker 8 (24:36):
It's Hubie Brown, and Hubie Brown had been out of
coaching for I think fourteen or fifteen years, so he
brought Hubie Brown out of retirement basically to coach. And
then when Huby retired, he brings Mike Vitella, who had
been out of coaching for seven years. And the reason
I thought that's so unique is Jerry West really pro player,
(24:57):
but he went out and got true coaches that were
not former players necessarily, and I always thought that was
really unique. But it's because he thought those two guys
were the best coaches at that time for the organization.
So his long term vision unbelievable. But I do remember
(25:18):
the first time I talked to him, I was coaching
the Warriors and there was a trade made, and all
of a sudden, a couple of days later, at the
secretary for the Warriors said hey, Jerry West is.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
On the line. I'm like, man, the logo, what you know?
Speaker 8 (25:31):
So I pick up the phone and he goes, hey,
so and so just got traded to you as a
young coach. I just want you to know you'll never
make it. You'll get fired. He'll get you fired.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Click. I'm like, oh wow, I'm.
Speaker 8 (25:44):
Thirty some years old, head coach in the NBA and
the logo just called me and told me the guy
we traded for is gonna get me fired.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And I had to coach the game. So but he
was pretty close to being right.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Let's talk. I asked you during the break. This fascinating.
I said, you coached in the end as an assistant
and a head coach. You were young, I said, and
you're known as a strategist. You are a guy that
is you're working the chalk both sides. You're working the refs,
you're working your team, you're working your assistance. Was there
ever a guy I asked you that was intimidatingly good
at strategy and the name you gave.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Was Hube Brown.
Speaker 8 (26:22):
I remember the first time we played Memphis when I
was with the Warriors. I told our staff we got
to be up at least nine or ten heading into
the two minute timeout because if not, we got no chance.
Because he was coach Brown was so great late game
and I had worked for him several years before that
(26:43):
and saw what he did in timeouts, the preparation and
how he could take a play pattern and alter it
on the fly and make it simple through his instructions
in the timeouts. Never seen anything like it in my life,
And so I knew then going against him, like, hey,
I cannot out coach this guy in the last two minutes.
(27:04):
And so I larned our staff like, hey man, we
gotta have DOUBLEG leader.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
What's over?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
You also coached under Chuck Daily, the legendary I mean
he was. He and pat Riley. They looked like CEOs,
the suits.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
The Coach Daily would let you know it too. He
would tell you get out of the mirror, I need
the mir space. Pregame like your assistant coach be, you know,
getting his tied done right, and Coach Daily'd walk right up,
I need the mirror, now move please.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Now he had that ego and the vanity and the gravitas,
but yet it worked and a lot of times players
would be turned off by that. What was something about
Coach Daily that was a marvel to you?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Well, he could always predict the future. It was absolutely unbelievable.
He would see things like he would say, hey, in
ten games, we're going to be super tired, and then
ten games would go by.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
And we'd be super tired.
Speaker 8 (27:58):
Like he could always fi you're out the nuances of
his team. The most amazing thing is he had this presence,
this air about him.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
But he really had no ego.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
It was unbelievable, Like he looked at himself like an
average guy. Now the dressing part was super important to
man and never every road trip.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
He wanted to go shopping every road trip, just like
mac So.
Speaker 8 (28:23):
But but in all reality he was a true players
coach like he in practice, he really believed in giving
the assistant coaches a voice. Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
He said that when he spoke in a huddle, he
wanted to be like E. F. Hutton.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
He wanted everybody to listen all ears towards him, so
he felt like they didn't need to hear his voice
all the time.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
That is really smart. He was really smart. So he
wanted he was a word efficiency guy, no question, assistance
can bark at practice. When I talk, it's game meaningful.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
No doubt.
Speaker 8 (28:55):
And he talked about how he broke down how many
meetings you truly have in a twenty four hour game day.
You think about all the timeouts, you think about pre practice,
you think about shoot around, you think about your forty
minute meeting, you think about your meeting at twenty minute.
So I said, all these meetings, think about how tired
the player's ears are of listening to the same voice,
(29:17):
so the same message over and over. So he was
really careful not to use a lot of words in
front of his players.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Guy, that's so smart. You know. Dan Hurley is the
coach of the moment in college basketball. I didn't think
the Lakers was a good fit, I said. Listen. When
I saw him at a Billy Joel concert a day
later with his wife, I'm like, he's a New Yorker.
He not coming out to La La La Land. But
I said, I didn't know, and I think he's great.
(29:44):
I said, I don't think Bill Belichick would have been
a good college coach, but yet I think John Gruden
would have been. Stylistically, you worked in both, I said,
I don't know if Dan has the patience or the
league has the patience for him as an NBA coach.
If you go look at Rhode Island, if you go
look at his jobs, he deconstructs. Lakers don't like lea
(30:07):
deconstruct job, right, they got Lebron and ad tell me that,
what do you think Hurley would have worked? And I
think he's the best college coach. Now, yep, you think
it would have worked in the NBA. Did he make
the right choice staying at Yukon?
Speaker 8 (30:21):
You know, I think his that's you know, his choice
is his choice. But I do think that any great
coach would come to find out really quickly that professional
sports is a players league and it's way more of
a partnership, and if if you don't turn it into
a partnership, you just cannot last in that league at all.
(30:42):
And I think coach Hurley is so smart and so
brilliant that he would have figured that out really really quickly, if.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
He wouldn't already know it.
Speaker 8 (30:50):
You know, I think that a lot of college coaches
that are thinking about the NBA level. I think if
you talk to enough NBA coaches, head coaches or assistant coaches,
I think you understand really quickly that you have got
to partner, especially with your star players, and if you don't,
you're just you're just not gonna make it, you know.
(31:11):
I mean the players are going to control so much
in that league, and for good reason.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
They are the star of the show.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I am a fan of college basketball. I do think,
in just my opinion, the NBA kind of with Adam Silver,
demonized it. And I always think college football is the
best microwave. So by the time a kid Tim Tebow
goes to the NFL, he's a household name. I know
Zion because of Nike and Duke. I have a feeling
that the NIL will keep a few players around, maybe
(31:43):
like a Zach Edy for one more year, and will
actually you'll be able to get a kid that may
have been a G leaguer And it's like Kansas is
gonna pay me four to fifty, I'm gonna go to Kansas.
That's I'm on the outside. I think the NIL could
actually fortify college basketball. It's still a revolving door of talent.
What do you think can the NIL? Because everybody laments
(32:06):
the NIL, but I think, to myself, could it actually
help the sport?
Speaker 8 (32:11):
I think it can help their sport with certain players.
But I think, you know, a year ago, we had
Anthony Black, who was a lottery pick, and there was
never a discussion with Anthony or his mother, Jennifer. There
was never a discussion about, hey, let's have Anthony come
back and he can make name, image and likeness because he's.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
A lottery pick. After one year, you're a one and done.
You got to go.
Speaker 8 (32:33):
But I do think for certain players that are maybe
marginal guys, because if you're talking about a player who's
a late second round draft pick, he's a star in college.
So I do think some guys that are borderline maybe
forty five to sixty picks, maybe those guys can participate
in college for one more year and have a little
(32:54):
bit more patience, and then when they're ready to go pro,
maybe they go from sixty to now thirty eight in
the in the following draft. And so if you can
have those conversations that make sense and a player can
make more money over time based on his draft value,
and then it also elevates a player when you look
at marketing opportunities once he does get to the NBA,
(33:15):
because let's face the facts, somebody like Carmelo Anthony when
he plays the one year at Syracuse, that elevates his
marketing as well. Oh, no question, same thing with Kevin
Durant at Texas. So I think college can be really,
really good. From a marketing.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Stand I totally agree.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
So I think there's some great things with it.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah. Plus the programs all have deals with Nike Adidas.
I mean, so you get you're going to get those
companies behind you as well. You know, it's really interesting
when it does appear to me the AAU system is
a bit broken. I tend to think America has the
most good basketball players, but the top five or six
guys in this league are increasingly international players. And I
(33:57):
don't think it's because our kids don't work hard or
not good people or good I think what happens is
the European system. Whereas it's an academy, Yep, you play
fewer games, the games mean more, you play against older players.
AAU is a million games on the weekend. It's all
about getting the bag. I think the system right now
(34:20):
is better in Europe than here. You can't, you know,
bad mouth AAU because you're recruiting it all the time.
But is there an argument to be made that the
European system, if we could tweak ours, that they do
some things better at a fundamental level early than we do.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
There's no question right now when you look at the
draft and if you go back crazy, yeah, it's crazy.
I mean you think about you know, thirty years ago,
you know the Atlanta Hawks and stan Casting were way
ahead of the game when when it was came to
evaluating overseas. And I remember the draft with Nowitzki. I
was in Orlando at the time and three weeks before
(35:00):
the draft, we did not know who Dirk was. That's
how far scouting and everything has come too. That wasn't
that long ago. But now the coaching overseas absolutely phenomenal.
Some of the best coaches in the world are not
coaching in the United States. And for so many years,
great American coaches went over their coach, did clinics, taught
(35:24):
the game the way that the Americans played. Now the
coaching we're stealing ideas and.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Schemes from them. It's amazing.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
Even NBA teams, there's a lot of NBA teams, Hey,
let's go get so and So to be an assistant
coach because he's so creative, offensive minded, and he's been
coaching in Italy or Spain or Serbia or wherever. And
then you think about the player and the level of talent,
right now, if you could project another ten to fifteen
years what the NBA draft's going to look like, it
(35:54):
might look a lot like baseball, where you're talking about
a lot of Dominican Republic players and you're talking about
a lot of Ande Whalen players dominating the draft.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
It might turn.
Speaker 8 (36:04):
That quickly with with with basketball as well, because it's
trending in that direction right now unless we can fix
some of the grassroots stuff that's going on here in
the US.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I gotta tell I used to cover Tark, so I
need you to be vulnerable here because I ask all.
Speaker 8 (36:18):
I roomed with Tark's son at the University of San Diego,
George Tarkan, Oh, George Dark Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So I I've said this before. I we love this game.
I wish I was an NFL GM. I thought Jan
Dixon out of Maryland was going to roll in the league.
I loved him, and I later found out he was
a tweeter. So there Don McClain, I was sitting with
Tark and I said he would played at seem Valley
or something and great legendary basketball player now a Clipper announcer.
(36:47):
I'm like Tark. I was watching them at a tournament Vegas.
I'm like, I don't get it. He doesn't jump, he scores.
It's I don't in. Tark's like he's gonna be all NBA.
So Tark knew his stuff, So I love. I'm ever
tell Mike Dunleavy, yell Meing's just another tall guy. He's like,
he's gonna be unbelievable. So I whipped a million guys,
give me a guy two of them that you spotted
(37:10):
early and wasn't a big recruit, but you really you
feel like it nailed him. And has there ever been
a great player that you didn't buy and you looked
up five years later and went, Wow, that kid had
a lot of heart and really made himself into something.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
I would say if I had to look back and
think about a player that maybe I didn't think was
gonna be a unbelievable player. I went Orlando Magic general
manager John Gabriel asked me to go watch Vince Carter
play against Bethune Cookman.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
In Daytona Beach.
Speaker 8 (37:45):
He could jump, And I went over there and I
watched him and he was always grabbing a body part,
you know, but and his athleticism was awesome. But I
was like I told Gabe, I said, I don't know
if he can really be an NBA All Star. And
that's the one guy that's why you can't go watch
a guy one time because obviously Vince Carter was unbelievable,
(38:07):
but it was a forty minute game. I watched him
play probably twenty some minutes because it was a blowout game,
and I came away and was like, I'm not sure,
and that I look back and said, boy, are you stupid?
Which is also why you've got to constantly call people
that are either coaching him in the training Jerry West secret.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
You have to now give me a guy that you found.
You guys all have somebody that you loved early.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 8 (38:33):
Say a guy that Darren Fox as a young player
of him him. I watched him for about thirty seconds,
and I don't know where he was ranked at the
time because I had just entered college basketball, but I
remember watching him. It took like two or three minutes
to say, this guy is just different. He's on a
(38:54):
whole other level. And I think that the more you
do this college recruiting stuff, the stars that are just
guys that are going to be lottery picks. They're easy.
You don't have to convince yourself that they're good. Right,
You automatically can say that guy's going to be a
lottery pick. And there's not many, but when you see it,
(39:14):
you kind of know it and feel it.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You've coached at Nevada, Arkansas and now USC. It is
a big city, big city media, big city restaurants. Are
LA kids just naturally a little softer, a little more entitled.
I heard years ago a college football coach said, you
come out here. They all got two iPhones in LA
and they got cool shoes and they're all stylish. And
(39:37):
I'm like, he goes, that's not like what they're like
in you know, Wichita State is recruiting an LA kid.
Different at USC.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
I don't really think so.
Speaker 8 (39:46):
I mean I look at you know, when we first
got started at Nevada, the first place I went to
was LA and we ended up getting Lindsey Drew, who
was the starting point guard for us for four years.
And he was an LA kid, and yeah, he has
a cool factor to him, for sure, but his dad
was an NBA head coach, and we felt like the
(40:07):
LA market because of who you're playing against as a
high school player, and local AAU events. As a really
young player, meaning second, third, fourth grade, they're exposed to
so many great players at a young age that we
actually felt like it's an unbelievable market. And now obviously
being at USC, now it's got to be a great
(40:28):
market for US.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, Eric Musselman joining us. You've coached in the D League,
the Mountain West, the NBA. You've coached Chuck Daily, Doc Rivers,
Mike Fratello. You've coached Penny Hardaway, Rashid Wallace, Scottie, Pippen, Powell, Gasol.
Gasol was a fascinating.
Speaker 8 (40:46):
Player, unbelievable offensive player, and a unbelievable IQ was. He
was an underrated passer and when you can find a
player that makes Kobe loved him, Oh for a good reason,
because everyone loved playing with him. He was un selfish,
He was a great locker room guy, super ego lists
and was fun to be around. Like he had energy
(41:09):
that you were like, Hey, I want to go hang
out with Pau Gasol.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah. You know, somebody told me that Penny Hardaway had
the best pre NBA workout. Kobe and Penny Hardaway had
the two best. Now, when were you and Penny together.
Speaker 8 (41:22):
Yes, so it was would have been Pennies. I think
maybe third year because because he played for Brian.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Hill with the Nick Anderson Shack. Yes, Dennis Scott no,
maybe not.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
I think Dennis was with him, yes, and then I
joined the Magic with Chuck Daily, so that was Chuck's year,
and then I was also with the Magic when Doc
came his first year.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
But Penny was.
Speaker 8 (41:47):
Part of the year with with Coach Dale and it
was Nick Anderson, Horace Graham.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Somebody told me he did things in practice that were insane.
Speaker 8 (41:55):
Because he was Now we talk about positionless players, he
was the guy that was the positionless player that could
play the point that he could guard a four man.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
He had unbelievable vision, you.
Speaker 8 (42:09):
Know, like when you're an NBA assistant, you're like, I
can't wait for the tip off to see what this
guy does. Penny was one of those guys. So was
Jason Williams. White Chocolate was like when I was with him,
I couldn't wait for the game to start because it
was like, this man's gonna.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Put on a show, you Matt, and you never knew
what he was.
Speaker 8 (42:27):
Going to do, and there's all you know, there's these
certain guys that just have incredible flare, and Penny was
certainly one of them.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Juju Watkins usc basketball star, women's basketball star. If I'd
never seen the play, tell me, tell me about the game,
her game.
Speaker 8 (42:45):
I mean, she's well, first of all, she's the biggest
star on campus.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 8 (42:50):
And that's super cool when you think about women's athletics
that Juju is a national brand right now.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
So any scout, I'm I'm your I want you to
go scout Juju. Well, Eric, tell me about her.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
She can do everything.
Speaker 8 (43:07):
I mean, she she can draw free throws attempted, she
can make threes. You talk about a player on a
big stage as a freshman that could take her team
as far.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
As she did.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
How she uses her body.
Speaker 8 (43:22):
She's got unbelievable body control, she can finish through contact,
she can seek contact for free throws attempted, stretch the
defense out with three point shooting. Just had a phenomenal,
phenomenal freshman year. And the shirt I got on this
is actually a Juju Watkins shirt from the bookstore. I
(43:43):
went and I'm like, man, that's a great logo. You know,
I'm in the bookstore looking for stuff. I looked at
the price tager, I'm.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Like, wow, like it's one hundred dollars T shirt. And
then I looked at Hey, it's Juju Watkins shirt. Let's
get this thing.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
By the way, you're fifty nine and look great. You've
got incredible energy. I think a lot of that from
what I've heard. I talked to people, told them you
were coming on the show. You really love what you do.
You have a great energy. Now I know you have
to get on a plane and recruit. Is recruiting easier
or harder today?
Speaker 8 (44:13):
Well, I've only been doing it for ten years, you know, collegiately,
so I would say that it's become harder each year
that I've been a part of it. You know, when
I was at Nevada, you had to sit out when
you transferred, so we had a great formula. We felt like, hey,
we always want four sitout guys that we can develop
and have patience with. And then we also that means
you only got eight or nine guys on your active rosters,
(44:35):
so they're all happy, So your locker room is easier.
One thing that I don't think people are talking enough
about with this, you don't have to sit out transfer wise.
Now you have thirteen guys on scholarship, there's always going
to be three or four guys that are unhappy.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
So what is your locker room like?
Speaker 8 (44:50):
And it also there's more guys now not playing and
they're losing eligibility while they're not on the floor. When
you had to sit out thing and you and you
sat for a year, then you got the you know,
more guys were playing minutes then, and so I think
that's a little bit of development piece because really the
only way to get better, truly is to get significant minutes.
(45:11):
That's how you improve as a player, where you can
learn on the fly, and you can learn through mistakes
and you can play through mistakes. And with thirteen active
players on a roster, becomes more challenging to let guys
play through their mistakes. But when you have four guys
sitting out, you have no choice. You're rolling with a
core group of seven or eight guys. And I think
(45:32):
guys got better that way.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Jay Wright would get three star guys from the DMV,
build them, they'd stay in college. It was great chemistry.
John Calipari went one and done. That's a way to
do it. If you were at a Kentucky like where
you can do either way, what would you prefer?
Speaker 3 (45:47):
I think you got to have a blend.
Speaker 8 (45:49):
I think that, you know, when I look back at
the group that I had a year ago at Arkansas,
a team that got us to the Sweet sixteen, we
had three freshmen that were one and done's, and I
love that formula. I think if you get a freshman
who's really really talented and is going to be able
to play in the NBA in eight months, what a
challenge as a coach to say, man, I owe, there's
(46:11):
an obligation to make sure this player gets drafted higher
than what's anticipated.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
That's a great challenge.
Speaker 8 (46:18):
It's also an incredible responsibility for a coaching staff when
a parent, you know, says, hey, we want this young
man to be developed, to get him ready for the
next level, and you got eight months to do it.
And I look back a couple of years ago with
Moses Moody, who was a lot of a pick. He
led us to an Elite eight And the thing that
(46:39):
I've learned is you got to let those guys play.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Early on, and then when you get to March.
Speaker 8 (46:45):
Then you'll get the payback. And it might not happen
right away. In non conference, you might see a team
slip up a little bit if they're playing a young
guy that's going to be a one and done. But
you certainly hope come March madness that those players can
lead you because in all reality, you can't win without
star players, and without players that are you got to
win in college with NBA prospects or your just marginal team.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, I got burned a few years ago. I watched
Kansas in December and they had some one and donners
and I'm like, they're terrible, and then three months later
they're smoking people. To your point, these kids got to grow.
I just felt like I went graduate seminar of basketball.
Eric Musselman, USC basketball coach, What a pleasure to finally
meet you. You've had a remarkable career, fascinating kick but
(47:29):
at USC.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Man, Thanks Colin, appreciate you having me out. It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
You bet take a break back in a second. The
Herd
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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