November 29, 2024 • 55 mins
Today on The Herd, Jonas Knox and LaVar Arrington fill-in and react to the Bears disastrous clock management vs the Lions on Thanksgiving. Senior NFL Reporter for TheMMQB, Albert Breer jumps on to break the news that the Bears decide to fire head coach Matt Eberflus. And the guys explain how this firing exemplifies a dysfunctional organization.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhert
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oooh y'ah.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
It gets from allD at Corn Breed. Hope y'all had
a whole lot of corn brand out there. Yeah, I'm
looking at some corn breeding. It is the Herd on
Fox Sports Radio. But it's not Colin Cowherd. It's not
Jason McIntyre, it's not Ryan Music. There's no Greg Toy
(00:54):
to be found. It's LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here.
We do a show called Two Pros and a Cup
and show which you can hear weekday mornings from six
to nine am Eastern time three to six am Pacific time.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Normally we do that show with Brady Quinn. Brady is
not with us today, so it is Styx and Eye
keeping you company all the way up for the next
three hours.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Here on Fox Sports right that.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
I wish we could hang out with our peeps for
longer than that, but we'll make it work.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, you know, let's let's do what we can do.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
So let's dive right into it, because there is a
I'll just put it this way. Whatever issues you have
in your life, and there could be a lot of
things going wrong, just take.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Solace in the fact you're not a beer man.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That is correct, which is funny because only up till
recently you would have said that about both these days.
It's just now, all of a sudden, it's cool to
be a Lions thing.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
I mean, Detroit Lions are staring an eighth loss in
a row on Thanksgiving. Even in the midst of being
the best steam in football potentially, I still wanted to
lose it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Oh my god. They were trying.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
I mean, you got to halftime and the Bears had
I think one or two first downs that they picked
up on the final drive before half. Other than that,
the Lions were dominating and it was only a two
score game and it's sixteen nothing. You're thinking, well, it's
a little bit close. And then as this happened and.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It gets real close, like wait, wait, hold on a second,
like it feels like a blowout.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Because it's not a blowout, because this is the same
thing that has gone on for this team, and we've
talked about it on our show at nauseum, like, hey,
there's a theme here. Caleb Williams figures things out league games.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Caleb Williams is good man dude and kind of sucks
that he's in the situation.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
And he was rolling and then somehow, someway they figure
out a way to crap it away and blow the
game and cost themselves an opportunity to win.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
All right, let me ask you this before we go
any further. Yeah, because we've had multiple conversations about Caleb
Williams and had he gone to a better organization, Caleb
Williams is probably talked about much differently than how he
is right now. He was under duress like all gangs,
(03:17):
like Zadarius, all those guys Like I didn't realize he's
the most hit quarterback in the league, but he was.
He was picking himself up the entire game. That is
a real thing, Like you can get hit so much
as a quarterback that at some point you're you're ruined.
Who was that car the first car. Not not that
David Carr was ruined by just getting they hit him
(03:40):
too much.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, you gotta ask Ephrom Salam his thoughts on that,
because Ephram Salon, you know, he doesn't agree with that.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Well, he just thinks, say, listen, man, you know when
when the guy's scrambling and he runs out of bounds
four yards behind the line of scrimmage, that counts as
a sack giving up on the offensive line. Yeah, he's
all throw the ball away, So that doesn't you know. Yeah,
but they let that man hit way too much.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
He did shots out In all respect to my homie
he from He's a good dude, that's my guy. But
let me tell you something. Y'all was letting that man
get hit too much. And he's he got shell shocked,
bro like. And I think that Caleb is not going
I just don't think he has the mental makeup to
become a shell shocked type of guy or finds himself
(04:21):
with the yips because of everything that took place. But
what I will say is he continues to compete, and
he continues to try to find a way yet instill,
and I think that's always going to be the conversation
about someone who could possibly be a franchise guy bona
fide at the league level is they do it in
(04:42):
spite of this Bears team is not a good team.
They have some pieces on both sides of the ball,
but for some strange reason, they have not found a
way to be a better team than what they have
been yet. I look at this and I say, you
got a doomsday. You got Keenan Island who Finally, I mean,
(05:07):
that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
The artistry, I would say, you do have the makings
of saying, Okay, build out, build out, build out. Develop
this year. Figure out what you need to do to
put in place for for Caleb. Like, you got a
running back, Like if you keep swift and swift stays healthy, healthy,
(05:28):
You've got a running back. You've got receivers, You've got
a few offensive linemen. You need more, Uh, you have,
you have linebackers, you have, you have a secondary, but
you need more.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
If they can.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Figure out how to build a formidable group of personnel
around Caleb Williams, next year could be serious because this
is a competitive team that can't win right now. They're
not a non competitive team. This is not a team
that you're looking at and it's like the game we'll
talk about after this one. It's not like you're looking
(06:03):
at a New York Giants team that you really have
nothing to stand on at all. This is a team
where you could say, I feel really good about Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Just don't ruin it.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Don't ruin it for the city, don't ruin it for
this this this player that is such a young bright star.
Don't ruin it. Do what you need to do. I
don't care if it's a coaching change. Bring in somebody
that he can relate to or that understands what's going
on like they're out there. I mean, we'll talk about
the Green Bay game. I have more and more of
(06:38):
a respect for Matt Lafleur every single day, Bro, every
single day, My my, My build up and and and
growth of respect for what he does as a coach
gets higher.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Bring in a guy.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
If this guy currently is not the guy to do it,
cut the cord now. Bring in a guy that can
get the most, like a Dan Campbell, that can get
the most out of this team, so that you can
get the most out of Kayleb Williams. It would be
one of the biggest waste if Cayleb Williams doesn't turn
out to be one of the top quarterbacks in this league.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Well, the guy that you're referring to is Matt Matt
eberfl I almost said Lafloor.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, it was because you wanted it to be.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Well, I did, because they'd be nine to three. Instead
they're four and eight and h and they're looking at
another top ten draft pick based on how the season
is gone. But Matt eberflus Uh spoke today with the
media in Chicago and tried to explain away what the
hell was going on the final thirty seconds of that
(07:44):
game with a timeout remaining.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
What are you doing?
Speaker 5 (07:48):
It?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Just what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And and for the record, Jonas for the record, you
gotta think about this. If the receiver keeps running, that's
six points. If you watch the play again, the receiver
turns around, slows down. If the receiver keeps running, that's
(08:15):
six points. That's six points. It's the whole oddo. So
the ball was where it needed to be. But I
will say this, they should have called time. Yeah, and
so Maddie and they should have been moving quicker than
what they were on the play.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Before but go.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
So Maddy Eberflus spoke earlier about his decision to knock
all the time out there.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
We got sacked and it was you know, third and
twenty six, you know, with the thirty six seconds there,
got sacked there at thirty two, and then our decision
at that point was to be on the ball, hold
our time out and get the playoff at fifteen to
ten seconds in that range, throw it into the field
goal range there, and then call timeout and then kick
(08:56):
the game winner on fourth down. The operation wasn't fast
enough and we didn't do a good job of executing
there in that moment, and that was the decision that
we made and went with during that time.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And also know that the other option.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
That you could have had was at you know, thirty
to twenty eight seconds, you call timeout there and then
you have no timeouts. You throw the ball the same
type of play throw it in there, and then you
do your fast field goal into the game there and
then kick the game or the game tire.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
There to force it to overtime.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
So those are the two options that we had.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
We want the first option.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yeah, it wasn't close, no, Yeah, those were those were
the two options. Did you know that at the time,
because I don't know that Anyboddy do that at the time.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
They were moving so slow for one for two, like
this is the last play of the game, Like you
knew that when they were snapping the ball. It was
like three seconds left right something like that. Six seconds,
six seconds? Yeah, call time out, you know it's the
last play of the game.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
When he gets sacked, call time out. It's third down.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
You can run a quick play, get down and spike it,
just like you did the previous week when you set
up for the tying field goal against Minnesota or run
a play out of bounds.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
What you just need a field goal to tie.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
He's a proper against Look, I'm telling you right now,
I wonder if if they're so scared of attempting a
field goal based on what's half in the past couple
of weeks and they're like, yeah, we know three ties,
but we're gonna go for the win.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Here. I cannot explain what that was.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
I don't And look, Caleb Williams had he should have
called time out of time. He's culpable in this as
well too. But the coach is supposed to be the
fail safe for a rookie quarterback, or any quarterback for
that matter. He's the guy running the team. He's standing
there looking around, and even Tony Romo, who hasn't prepped
(11:03):
for a game in thirty years, is saying, whoa what
are you doing? Call time out, Jim. Everybody's saying watch
it like I'm watching in shock. Like my son is
rifling down a cinnamon roll faster than anything I've ever
seen in my life. He looks like the fat eye
off stand by me in the pie eating contest, and
(11:23):
I've got to make sure he's not choking.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
But I'm looking at the bears ga and go, what
is happening here? I can't. I don't get it none.
If it makes any sense.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
That's what makes it make sense, is the lack of sense.
Is it worse than the Hail Mary loss? Because I
think that's what I was saying. Commanders showed you how
to do it. Why did you do it the way
they did it?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
You can swear to God, I think it's worse than
the commanders.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
They were close, they were close, they were close, and
like you said, it wasn't a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
But they only needed three points.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
They only needed three points, so I'm going to take
my chances with trying to get the ball out of bounds.
Keep the ball going out of bounds for a couple
plays that you had. Maybe you do a deep ball.
Maybe you do it deep ball to get into what
would be perceived as phield gold rains, and you take
a try at it and see if you could get
(12:14):
it into overtime.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
That's I mean, you weren't.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
No one was expecting this team to be that close
to Detroit, and and for what it's worth, it didn't
feel like a game that was close. It just it
felt like they were getting dominated. They were getting handled
up front. The running game was working. They talked about
Sonic and Knuckles, you know, the backfield being as impressive
(12:38):
as it is for.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Such cheesy Jesus.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Their shoes were kind of tight though, like the Sonic,
the Hedgehog and the Knuckle shoes that they were kind
of tight.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Let's be cartoon characters like well, their shoes, okay, their
shoes in their nicknames. I mean, you had earth Wind
and Fire for the Giants with Bradshaw and Jacobs and
who was the third one on that branch Bradshaw Jacobs,
who was the third one there was another one. Uh,
I'm forgetting this and and ah man, what's his name?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I play with the running back? Yeah, I played with him.
I can't remember it off the top of my head,
but they were earth winding fire like the singing group.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek what's his last name?
Come on, man, come on, come on, Lee Derek White.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
No, no, no, anyway, I'm just saying. Derek Ward shouts out.
I'm sorry, Derek d Ward. Listen. That's a good backfield
and that's a really good team and they are as
good as advertised. I just felt as though that was
interesting because the Bears had a strong opportunity to take
(13:51):
advantage of a divisional opponent that is the top in
the NFC and possibly get it to overtime or possibly
even maybe after getting dominated dominated the way, that they
did actually have a chance to win the game, and
and they they they blewed opportunity.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
You know, made a great point that so old and
Cruiz guy you played against Chicago Bear legend. So he
was doing a postgame show on the score in Chicago,
and he made a great point where he said, I
was watching the game and for the first time I
realized all the Bears have the playmaker at quarterback, Like
(14:28):
if somebody is gonna win, Like if if if one
of the quarterbacks was going to win that game for
for their team, it was gonna be Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Barratt, No, I'm not saying on the year.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
In that game yesterday, Caleb Williams was one making and
then it just comes getting laced up though, bro laced
up and then like he took that hit to the
hip or whatever it was and then threw a touchdown pass.
Right afterwards, he threw the dime to de j Moore
and on the sideline into the end zone.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Bro, lads, play was a dime for a touchdown. Everybody
out there listening, you get an opportunity. Look at the
last player the Bears Detroit Lion game. It was in
position to be a touchdown catch. If that receiver runs
to the point of where the ball is supposed to
where the ball was, if he's running instead of turned
(15:25):
around looking, turn around, look go like get the ball.
If he does that, that's six points. I mean, that's
six points. So I'm with you there and I'm oling
on that, but I ain't going I'm not going to
under sail what Jared right to the table, and Jared
was bringing it to the table yesterday too.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
There's no under selling. But Detroit was rattled down the stretch.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I don't think they could understand why the game was
as close as it was the way.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
They were playing, and the Bears bailed them out with
another disaster. When it comes to situational football, which situational
football is that? Or is that not on the coach?
Like I mean, the situational football is on the coach,
just ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and NED Eastern not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Right now, we turn it over to Albert Breer, Amazon,
NFL on Prime Insider, Senior NFL reporter, lead content strategist
at the MMQB at Albert.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Breer on ex Abe.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
We know it's the game this weekend, but we do
have some breaking news that I think you just tweeted
out according to sources in Chicago.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Yeah, so the Bears are firing that he flues Thomas
Brown is going to be the interim coach. We're still
getting this and as.
Speaker 7 (16:45):
As we go along here.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
But yeah, I mean, I guess not a real shocker.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
It's actually interesting because the Bears coaches were set to.
Speaker 8 (16:55):
You know, get you know, go through their meetings and
everything else and be off at Central today. So now
it's done and Thomas Brown takes over for the time being,
and you're a lot of the come.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
We just talked about this in the first segment. I mean,
if you're going to cut the court, cut the court
because you don't want to risk the actual deal of
being one of the teams or a team that falls
on the list of biggest waste of player of a
draft pick in the history of the game. And I
think we all see the potential in Caleb Williams ab
(17:33):
I'm curious how much of this game had to do
with him, you know, losing his job. Was this do
you do you feel like this was something in the
making or was this purely based upon the bad clock
management at the end of the game and the fact
that they could have possibly won against the top team
(17:54):
in their division and in the conference on Thanksgiving?
Speaker 8 (18:00):
Yeah, I'd say this was maybe like the final draw,
you know, And I think Levars, you know, like these
things a lot of times can come down to where
the locker room is on the coach right, and you know,
as things get as a heat turns up, sometimes there's
finger pointing and everything else. And you know, I don't
(18:21):
think any team, you know, even if things go really
bad once to go through this sort of upheaval in
the season where they fire an offensive coordinator find a
head coach a couple of weeks later.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
However, I do think some of the things that.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Happened at the end of the game last year but
last yesterday play into this. And maybe the biggest thing
to me, at least is where you know you have
where is where you have a situation where clearly, you
know rookie quarterback was sort of struggling with what to
do in the in the final minute, and I you know,
(18:54):
you watch Caleb, you can see the wheels turning in
his head.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
And I don't think that in.
Speaker 8 (18:59):
A vacuum is the end of the world. What I
do think is a problem is when Mattieberflus stepped the
podium afterwards and and basically more or less absolved himself
and his staff of blame. You know, I just think
that's one of those situations where you know, even if
(19:19):
it was on Kleb after a rookie quarterback out there,
it's on you for not managing that situation accordingly, you know.
And so whether it's having the guy, you're having the
guy more ready for the situation, or or knowing that
he's going to struggle in that situation so you call
the time out quicker, regardless of what it is, like,
(19:42):
you can't point the finger of the player, you know.
And I think that.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
That's how you lose a team.
Speaker 8 (19:48):
And I'm not saying that Ibraflues lost the team completely.
They obviously played hard yesterday and they have played hard
this year in general, you know, but I think in
a situation like that, that's where you start to look
at it and say, okay, mis situation.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
It's not the that's happened.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
We already pulled the trigger on changing offensive coordinators, and
you know, and now here we go, like, you know,
how is the coach going to react to it in
the aftermath, and the aftermath it was you know, I
think was trying to be honest.
Speaker 7 (20:21):
You know, I don't think he was.
Speaker 8 (20:22):
I don't think there was all intent, but you know,
I think that you know, if you're a player in
that locker room, you look at you say, well, you're
blaming a rookie.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
You know, it's not really the right thing to do
in that situation.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Albert Breer joining us here on Fox Sports Radio, Amazon,
NFL on Prime Insider, Senior NFL reporter, Lead Content Strategies
at the MMQB, with the breaking news that the Chicago
Bears have just fired Matt Eberfluss as head coach following
yesterday's disastrous ending. And they've never done this in the
history of the organization. They've been around over a century
(20:54):
and they've never fired a coach in season. And one
of the conversations that was being had before the game was, well,
if they get blown out and it looks really ugly,
could there be a coaching change on Friday? I almost think, look,
if they would have lost that game by you know, sixteen,
seventeen points, whatever it was, Maddyberflus is still the coach.
(21:15):
Just the optics of how that all played out just
not great. And when you consider end of game situations
like Washington, you know, the Packers, and then the next
week they get a field goal blocked again from the
same exact spot. It just felt like it was heading
in this direction. My question to you, AB would be,
what normally it feels like this is where they would
(21:37):
go in the direction of an offensive minded coach for
the permanent job. And you know, Ben Johnson's Name's been
out there, so there's some good candidates though, agree with you.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Here's where I would here, here's you know where my
warning about that sort of idea comes in. I just
feel like sometimes as well, that's just too to put
it that way, but it's like, like I think sometimeation
is when you go one way and it doesn't work
(22:09):
to correct by going the other direction altogether, you know
what I mean. Like, so we didn't like the defensive coach,
so we're gonna go with the offensive coach. We didn't
like the first coach, so we're going to go with
the experience coach. We didn't like the players coach, so
we're going to go with the hard ass, you know
what I mean. Like, And I feel like teams do
that enough times and you start to lose any sort
(22:29):
of identity the franchise might have or have an opportunity
to build, you know, So like I just you know,
and and again, like you know, I think you can
see that in the Bears, right Like, So the Bears
went from you know, the offensive guru and Mark Tressman,
then to then go on with the experienced, you know,
(22:50):
super Bowl coach and Shohn Fox, then back to the
young offensive guru and Matt and Maggy, then to the
rising experienced defensive coach and Eberflus to the swing right back.
Speaker 7 (23:03):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (23:05):
I think sometimes you do that enough times and it's like, well,
you're not really doing anything, you know what I mean?
Speaker 7 (23:12):
Like, so, yeah, I agree with you that they.
Speaker 8 (23:13):
Need people around Caleb Williams to nursure him and bring
him along. I also think you can kind of cut
off your knees to fight your face sometimes if you're
just looking in one bucket, Like I think the pairs
owe it to themselves here to not like limit themselves
that way, and maybe you wind up on the offensive
coach anyway, But last time I checked, well, Tom Brady
(23:35):
had a pretty good career playing for Bill Belichick.
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Russell Wilson had a.
Speaker 8 (23:38):
Great decade playing for Pete Carroll. Lamar Jackson's had a
great career to this point playing for John Harbaugh. You
know what, I mean like, so, I mean you sell
me the evidence. I mean, yeah, you have Andy Reid
and Patrick Holmes, so it's happened, you know, for sure.
But I don't think there's overwhelming evidence that you have
to do it that way to get it right with.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
The core Abe, you mentioned a lot of coaches there
that have had success with their quarterbacks. Another team, another
two teams that were playing.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
I'll give you one more.
Speaker 8 (24:10):
I'll give you one more, one more because that's a guy,
because I don't I don't want to be I don't
want to be disrespectful here. But another obvious one Jim
Mora and Antony Done and Peyton Manning.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right, Yeah, Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 8 (24:21):
There you go anyway, anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Well, I was going to ask when you look at
what took place with the Cowboys and the Giants yesterday,
obviously in a way of feel good story for for
the Cowboys to be able to find their way to
a two game winning streak after losing their franchise quarterback
(24:45):
to to injury, but then you look at the other
side of it and it's like, wow, what a really,
really bad team in the New York Giants and looking
at it. Not many people would say day Ball is
a bad coach. In fact, many people lot the type
of coach that day Ball is. But is it has
(25:09):
it come to a point of where, maybe, you know,
looking at it from what their record is a two
win record and they just lose again on on Thanksgiving,
that his time is more so than now with with
you know, McCarthy. Out of those two teams in the nfcast,
if you would have said to me which got which
(25:29):
team is going to go for a new head coach
come to the off season, I would have said one
it would be the Cowboys, while now it looks.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Like it's going to be the New York Giants.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot there, LeVar, like I
would say, like it's uglier right now in New York.
I mean, I think here here's the one. I mean,
I think you have to give McCarthy some credit for
them fighting the last couple of weeks the way they
have right Like they've looked dead at points, and I mean,
so to draw that sort of performs, you know, coming
out of a really ugly loss on Monday Night to Houston,
(26:05):
what was that now ten days ago, eleven days ago?
I mean, like I think, like just getting the effort
they've gotten, you know, in Washington against a good commander's team,
and then you know, on Thanksgiving and winning going away
against the Giants, like I as without Dak Prescott, that's
a cdee lamb that beat up. So Micah Parson is
probably still not at one hundred percent right Like though,
(26:28):
I think you got to give Mike McCarthy some credit,
Like it might not save his job because his contracts
up and everything else, but you know, certainly I think
he deserves I think certainly, I think you you know,
you look at him, and you know he deserves some
credit for that, you know, Like I think the Giants
right now, I think the intention is to keep Brian
Davell and Joe Shannon charge. And I think it's part
(26:51):
partly an acknowledgment that after that first year they still
had a long way to go and the rosters still
need to be rebuilt in a very serious way.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
Now.
Speaker 8 (27:00):
I think you look at like the foundation there, and
there is a foundation in place with the left tackle
Andrew Thomas receiver of league neighbors. The guys in the
defensive front Dexter Lawrence might be the Defensive Player of
the Year Brian Burns. So there's a foundation in place.
I think the problem is you can counteract that with
two things now right. Number one, it's Daniel Jones and
(27:24):
Saquon Barkley and the decisions they made on those contracts
and what those look like two years out right, and
then where the team is headed in the trajectory, right, Like,
so you know, the Marrors.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
Planned to be patient and take.
Speaker 8 (27:38):
Their time and you know, give Joe Judge another year
in twenty one, and then that press conference happened at
the end and everything came unraveled, and so like, I
think that the Marrors want to keep day ball in Shane,
but couldn't like really unravel and go the way that
things went with Judge two or three years ago.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
I think that certainly could be the case.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
So you know, again, like if they can, if they
oh competent and put an effort and won a couple
of games down the stretch, I think they'll be okay.
If things unravel, you know, we could be talking about
something else.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Albert Brier joining us here on Fox Sports Radio, LeVar Arrington,
Jonas Knox.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
In for Colin Coward here on the herd.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
So obviously, you know the news of Maddie Briflus being
fired a short time ago, and and the conversation about
you know, other coaches that could be out after this
season or possibly in season, if you were just to
bet right now, like if you got feeling obviously the
big names that are out there, Mike Rabel, Bill Belichick,
(28:40):
you know, Ben Johnson potentially if you've got to pick
the landing spot for each of those, is Chicago in
the mix for either of those? Belichick or Mike Rabel
and potentially Ben Johnson.
Speaker 8 (28:53):
So Ben Johnson, I think if you'd asked them a
year ago, it might have been the shot you wanted.
I don't know if that's gonna be the case.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
It's the same way.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
They're in division with them obviously, you know. But but
I but I know he had interest last year, So
I think that's possible. And like I do think they've
got the infrastructure where he could just coach. I'm a
little less certain of Belichick and Brabell. I think the
job in a vacuum would appeal to Belichick, and I
was able to the question is like you've got Kevin
(29:22):
Warren as a team president, you got Ryan Poles as
the general manager, Like, how did this whole thing look
under verybel under Belichick, Because unless they're going to be
able to shape the organization a certain way, they may
be hesitant to go there, you know. So I think,
you know, like you you know, you look at a
Ben Johnson, who's you know, ostensibly the first time, first
(29:45):
time head coach, going to go there just to coach,
and I think it really could be a very attractive
job with Caleb there and the roster they have in
placed and everything else, you know, for guys like rabel
and Belichick who may have like a more I guess
a more a more global look at like how they
want to set up the entire organization. Unless those guys
are being to make some bigger changes, it's just who's
(30:06):
going to be on their coaching staff. They could wind
up talking at the idea of ABE.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I was watching this Dolphins Packers game yesterday and I
just started having all kinds of different conversations with myself,
not with the people who are around me, just in
my own mind and in my own head, and I'm
like thinking about gun Kunsten, all these other individuals, you know,
Laflor and I'm like, okay, you know, let it be
(30:36):
told the way you know, Aaron Rodgers kind of aired
out everything going into the season before his last season
when he set things straight as it applied to him
in the front office, and then fast forward to his
final season there and how everything kind of unfolded. If
you're looking at what this Green Bay pack his team
(31:00):
looks like at nine and three, this is as good
a team as as it has looked as the Green
Bay Packers as it did when they made it to
the Divisional Championship round. They they literally are playing at
that high of a level and you're doing it with
(31:21):
a guy that you drafted to replace the guy who
seemingly has been the one common denominator, and they're being
confusion and fallout wherever it is that he's at. What
type of what's the thought process on them getting the
(31:42):
running back getting rid of Aaron Jones, which I thought was, Man,
that's a that's a tough one to kind of recover from.
But nonetheless, you do it, and then you you get
the type of you know, the type of production you're
getting from Josh Jacobs. It just seems like they're operating
out a super super high level, maybe even higher than
(32:04):
what it was when Aaron Rodgers is there. How is
that being perceived by that, by the media, by the
the you know, the inner workings of the league.
Speaker 8 (32:13):
I think like the coolest thing about it is, like,
so last year, I'd say a big part of their
story was Jordan Love got hot at the end of
the year and they were able to go and you know,
get these shootouts and winning that sort of setting. It's
great to see your young quarterback do that.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
To me, it's really.
Speaker 8 (32:32):
Cool about what's happened since is between the hire of
Jeff Hafley to run the defense, some of the moves
they made on that side of the ball. Signing Xavier
McKinney was a huge one, very big, you know, and
then and then and then bringing in Josh Jacobs. They're
now a team that can win a million different ways,
you know what I mean. Like, so this is like
an all weather football team that.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
Yeah, I think has a chance.
Speaker 8 (32:56):
Like even on a day where maybe it's snowingside, he's
in Jordan Love throw us for one hundred and seventy
five yards because you can't do more than that. In
the past game, the Packers can win that game, now,
you know what I mean, And I think it's it's
really a credit to a lot of people there because
they've had good players there for a long time, but
being able to see the finishing pieces, like, you know,
(33:19):
even like having the humility to say, maybe we struck
out on our first round staft, they didn't strike out,
but just we haven't gotten quite enough out of Darnell Savage,
So like, let's let him go and go get Xavier McKinney.
We really love Aaron Jones and everything he's meant to
our franchise, but god, there's an upgrade out there. Let's
go get Josh Jacobs. You know, I just I think
those sorts.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
Of decisions are difficult decisions.
Speaker 8 (33:41):
To make that they deserve a lot of credit for it,
because those are the types of things that I think
could put them over the top. Even firing Joe Barry
Wott Muffloor is very close with and bringing in Jeff Hafley,
it's I think across the board. You know, they've done
a really nice job of setting it up a certain
way so they're quarterback can be superman, but he doesn't
have to be superman every week. I'm to win, And
(34:05):
I think you thought last night, I love the Jacob
sign because I think it sort of fits with Barkley too.
Speaker 7 (34:11):
And that running backs.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
I think I think some of the smartphone offices looked
at it last year coming out of the season, We're like,
you know, that position has been devalued to the point
where it's becoming a value again. Going and getting one
of those guys is.
Speaker 7 (34:26):
Actually great value now.
Speaker 8 (34:28):
And if you think about it, like, and this is
the way the Eagles looked at it, getting Saquon Barkley
costs them what it costs the Falcons to go get
Darnell Moon.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
Think about that right now.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
Darnell Mooney is a good player, don't get me wrong,
and it's really valuable to Atlanta this year and everything else.
But he's your second or third receiver, and Saquon Barkley
touches the ball three hundred times in a year, you
know what I mean. Like, so it's just I think
it's like, it's like the ability to make those adjustments
on the fly, to flip out Jones, for Jacobs, to
(34:58):
flip out Savage, for McKinney to feel about Barry for
for for Halflee, and then ultimately you know, like being
willing to kind of come off of some some things
that some some some preconceived notions that people in the
league might have about certain positions. I think is what
put the Packers where they are today.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Yeah, it's like the top three leading rushers in the NFL, Barkley,
Henry Jacobs, all guys whose former team was like, now
we're good here, okay.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
Right, and and it's like if you think about it,
and it's like what are they paying for those guys?
I mean, I mean like like like Henry's making eight
million bucks, Like that's their backup quarterbacks would make that,
you know what I mean. Like, it's just it's crazy
when you think about it, because like everybody's gotten so
locked into well edge rusher, you know, left tackle, receiver, corner, quarterback,
(35:47):
like and then just don't worry about anything else. Well,
you know, somewhere along the line, the pay at those
positions dropped to the point where it's like, okay, all
of a sudden, like this is a really good David
McKinney another one in safety, you know what, safety market
fell out, so the Packers are able to get good
good be there because the rest of the league doesn't
value them properly. You know, I think it's a really interesting,
(36:08):
interesting thing that that that that happened this offseason. I
think it's certainly benefited both the Packers and Eagles.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
Albert Breer, with the breaking news of Maddie Refluce being fired,
we didn't have any time to get to the game
this weekend, but we wanted to send you off.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
With this just to try and get you, get you
fired up down at the worshoe. I hope you'll lose.
Speaker 8 (36:28):
How about how about this so my seat, I believe
are like almost right on top of the fox.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Set on the field.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
All right, nice, Hey, you better, you better harass the
hell out of Brady Quinn tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Please.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Yeah, Like maybe I see it's too late, but I
would have.
Speaker 8 (36:43):
Had you guys send me like Brady Quinn sucks T shirts.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Darn. I could have put all my buddies in them.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Oh, I've got I've got a ton of those multiple colors.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
We could have we get a decked you all out perfectly, Albert,
Thanks you guys lose a b but but good luck
to you.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Thanks Amy, we'veppreciate it all.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
Right, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
All right, buddy, You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
I wish you luck, but but on on the inside
a B I'm hoping you guys lose.
Speaker 7 (37:09):
I never Michigan large practice.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I fear I feel you there, I feel you there.
But you know, we get that big ten opportunity against Oregon.
You guys didn't want to do it.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Yeah, no, no, no, I understand that one.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah yeah, all right, there you go. All right, hope
you had a great Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
There he is the great Alberbreer with us here on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter, not a im Pacific.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
We were wondering, all right here on a Black Friday, tang,
how'd you say it? What type of Friday? Black Friday? Hey?
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Or as Rob Parker would say, what would he say?
And by the way, this is robin ized jokes. Everybody's clear.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Fridays.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Well, I don't know about you, but every Friday's Black
Friday for me, which I have to I owe a
text later.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
That's that's our yearly tradition.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
But we were waiting to see whether or not there
was going to be any news out of the NFL
following the games yesterday. We've got another one coming up
later on that We're going to get into the Raiders
and the Chiefs at some point. And the news is
not great for Mattie Refluse. He was fired by the
Chicago Bears less than an hour ago after that disaster
of a performance by the Bears towards the end of
(38:23):
that game against the Detroit Lions yesterday. So the first
time in the history of the franchise that Bears are
firing a head coach in season.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And here's the best part about that whole what's the
best part? Seem the best part?
Speaker 5 (38:36):
How about the fact that they let Maddib Refluse do
a zoom call with the media and then fired him
after the zoom call with the media. We're in shows,
we're in show biz. They tell you let him finish
the show before.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You let them go. They're gonna fire you before the show,
even though you got one more show to do. He
shows we'll hit you after you've done.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
He shows up to talk to the media on the
zoom call and the media is like, are you planning
on being the coach? And Maddie Refluse says, yeah, listen,
I'm mom planning. Operations are normal I'm gonna be the
head coaches. We get ready for San Francisco, and then
like an hour and a half later, the Bears like,
hey man, you got.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
A second uh yeah, riverside, but.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
You could get an early start on your your holiday,
get shopping, your your vacation time.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Like you know, we're going to go in a different direction,
huck man. I mean.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Keenan Allen I thought had the most telling statement following
the game yesterday when he said the following, I felt
like we as players put ourselves in a position to
win as when you separate that fame.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Not us as a team, like us as players.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Malik Naghbors probably saw that, and we're like, damn, that's
pretty good. I should use that the next time I
air out the organization or my head coach. But it's
just not a great situation. It wasn't a great situation.
And now the conversation becomes where do you turn to next?
And look, Jim Harbaugh wanted the job last year, Like
(40:17):
that's mean, like everybody's known that, Like that's one of it.
That was one of his spots. Yeah, because they played
they drafted him and so that was an opportunity. And
now they're going to be looking to try and bring
somebody else in and they're going to go with Thomas
Brown the OC there.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I just.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
You hope, and we talked a little bit with Albert
Breer about this last hour, like you would hope that
they don't do the whole Well, last coach was a
defensive coach. Now we're going to do an offensive coach
and now we're gonna but it just feels like with
this organization, and you've talked about it with the Jets,
dysfunction is your MVP dysfunction And there is dysfunction.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Again, you cannot outperform dysfunction. I would challenge anyone who's
listening to us have a conversation. How many times have
you seen in an organization, a business, a relationship, anything,
anything that you want to take a look at of
(41:15):
real substance that you're looking for an ROI on it,
whether it be love, whether it be revenue, you know, money,
whatever it is. Where have you ever seen success and
skill and talent and even love whatever it may be,
When have you ever seen it outperform dysfunction? And I listen,
(41:41):
I lived in it as a player, and you start
to try to make sense of it. It's almost like
an abusive relationship when you're in a place that is
so dysfunctional, because there's two ways of looking at it.
One is self preservation, so you don't subscribe to all
of the elements that play a part in what that
(42:02):
dysfunction is, and you stay to yourself. You do your
job to the best of your ability, and you try
to keep that healthy amount of distance in space between
where the dysfunction is coming from. But that doesn't help
to cure or solve the dysfunction, and you're not going
to get that person's best foot forward in those situations,
(42:25):
just not going to happen. Then there's the other side
of it where it's like, and you may have heard
this before, I can fix it.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
That's the biggest the biggest.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
One, right is they need me, This job needs me,
this team needs me, this relationship needs me. Whatever it is,
I can fix it. And that, to me is where
it goes so wrong. And it has that, it has
that abusive feel. It's like, why didn't you leave? Why
didn't you say anything? Because I thought I could fix it?
(42:59):
And you know what, it has always been undefeated. Dysfunction
has always been undefeated. You cannot get positive results. You
can't get positive outcomes if there is dysfunction at the
level that we see it at with some of these organizations,
it's just not possible. So you can't sit there and
(43:22):
say you're you're confused, or you're surprised that this is
why what happened, or you already know. If you can
look at an organization like the New York Jets, it's
a dysfunctional organization. I don't care who you have as
a coach. I don't care who you draft as the players.
I don't care who you get as free agencies. As
(43:42):
the players. It's going to be a miss some way, somehow,
there's going to be a miss. So my challenge or
what my sentiments would be when you look at what
the Beers have done and they've been dysfunctional for some
time now, but now you have hope and Caleb Williams
(44:04):
as a franchise guy, my challenge would be as an organization,
as an owner of the organization, as the leads of
the organization, you have to take a look at what
your culture is and at the top you have to
address what the dysfunctional aspects and components of what you
(44:27):
bring to the table the Dallas Cowboys. Even right now
with an organization that's been so historically amazing in the
New York Giants, they got to take a look at
what that dysfunction has become and the culture that is
created on the way down all the way to your
players that are going on the field. I'm watching it
(44:48):
take place in Washington right now, where there is a
collective idea and body and belief that from the top,
if they can change the culture of what this organization
is from ownership and bring excitement and bring hope and
bring belief and buy in and a connection to not
only your employees within the building and the players, but
(45:10):
also with the community itself in a very real way,
you can indeed change the culture of It doesn't happen overnight,
doesn't happen quickly, but you can change the culture.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
These teams, the biggest issues are.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
At the top, and they're not being addressed because, well,
why would you address yourself? Sometimes that's the hardest thing
to do, is to find yourself in a situation where
you have to address yourself, and you'll find out which
one of these you know, which teams are doing that
seems like Detroit did that. Like hands off, we let
(45:48):
Dan Campbell come in. He came in with a very
very defined vision of what he wanted the culture of
this organization to be on down to its players, and
it's changed here in LA with the Chargers, seems as
though they brought in a guy in Harball. They trust
(46:08):
what he's his vision is, they trust how he wants
the culture to be and they've allowed him to do it.
And you can see it in the players and how
they play. You can see it in the results. And
then that carries over look at the fan base and
how it's growing for this Detroit Lions team. There's an overflow.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
They travel, come on, man, they try.
Speaker 5 (46:32):
And by the way, you call, and I always reference
this because I think it's important. You called a Lions
Browns game when Dan Campbell was there his first year
and that ended up being Baker Mayfields last year, and
so there's a lot in that conversation. But I always
I'm fascinated by that because that was really the beginning
(46:55):
of Listen, we're building something. Everybody laughed at Dan Campbell,
everybody all the way back to racing helmets and he's
he does double VENTI red eyes. He does two a day,
and like all these I just like, oh, he's one
of these other guys.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
And then you've just.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Slowly seen they build, they build, they draft well, Jared
Goffs completely, you know, rejuvenated his career. He's playing the
best football potentially of his career. And this is the
guy who went to a Super Bowl once. Like this
idea that if the Bears think that, all right, we
got rid of Matt Eberflus, who all right, now, now
(47:33):
everything's going to be good here, dude, they've since the
nineteen eighty five Bears, they've won six playoff games.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
That was forty years ago.
Speaker 5 (47:45):
Like, this is not just a Matt Eberflus his problem,
to your point, it rolls downhill.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
Something going on a long ass time.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
At some point, when you look at these disfunctional organizations,
you see the long laundry of major names that have
been brought in, whether it's a coach or whether it's
a player. You see this long list, and the results
generally may vary just a little bit. Maybe this coach
did make the playoffs, this coach didn't make the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
I mean, look at what's going on in Miami is
that dysfunction or not.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
I don't really know which means that it probably is
maybe the clock is struck midnight on Mike McDaniel and
now he's turning into a pumpkin.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Because that was not.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
The look of a like we said, this team is
really good with Tua.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Tua goes out.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
They're not really a good team. But now we got
to a back. They go cause it's cold. Can't be because
it's cold. A lot of them guys didn't have no
sleeves on their arms. Didn't look like it was cold
enough where you couldn't get out there and do what
you needed to do. It just didn't look good. When
you look at these teams and they bring in a
different coach, different coach, different coach, different coach, different players,
different players, but you're seeing the same results, like they
(48:58):
hit the same ceilings, like whether it be the record,
whether it be the amount of accomplishment. Did they make
it to the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Did they not?
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Did they win a divisional title? What are they When
you look at these teams, it be the same exact ones,
changing coaches, changing players and getting the same results. They
get the same exact results. So you could get mad
at media for calling it out, calling it what they
think it is, calling it what it may be. The
(49:28):
bottom line is is if you're paying attention to your
organization and your organization is giving you it's it's like
meeting a person, right.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
If a person shows you who they are, you should
believe them.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
If an organization shows you who they are, you should
believe them. There's no reason as a fan to sit
there and say, because I'm a fan of this team,
I can look at it and it comes out and
it plays out differently.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
That's not that's not correct. If they've proven.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
To you that this is how they do things, this
is the way things go you, you guys are acting like, oh,
when I was talking about the Jets, like the Jets
won't win ten games, I said, the Jets will not
do double digit wins because the dysfunction is so high
in New York that they will not make it to
ten wins. Not because they don't have the talent. I
(50:15):
meant ten wins over the span of two seasons. So like,
just to be clear, that might be a stretch. That
might that might that might be a stretch too. All
I'm saying is a preseason games can why expect why
expect that that Aaron Rodgers is going to be the
catalyst of change and a dysfunctional organization.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
And now you found out, Now you figured out that
that is not the case.
Speaker 5 (50:40):
The Bears fired Lovey Smith after he went ten and six,
like they fired him after he went ten and six.
Remember how everybody, and I know this, people in Chicago
couldn't wait to get rid of Matt Naggy. They couldn't wait.
He had to go. He had no idea what he
was doing. He's he's ruining this organization. I don't know, man.
(51:01):
He finished with a winning record and he took him
to the playoffs twice.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
You know, we've done We've done a lot of media
and a lot of radio.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
The one thing that it is funny to me is
being being successful. There's there's levels to it, and there's
degrees of it. And a lot of times people aren't
happy with real success. They're not happy with real success.
They have this delusion or or this this just maybe
not living in reality of what a ten win season represents,
(51:34):
what a winning season represents. Now you look at you know,
the conversations that we've had historically on two pros and
a cup of Joe that you can catch by the
way Eastern Standard time at six am to nine am.
We are filling in for Colin Cowhers. That's Jonas Knox
on LaVar Arrington. The one thing that we have discussed
and have really talked about is in the college ranks, right,
(51:58):
and I know it's different than the league, but in
the college ranks, you'll have a day at Ohio State
and he's under fire and he's undefeated. It's like, wait,
hold on, what happened. Loses to Oregon. Eye, he's gotta go.
He's gotta go. You lose one game, you lose to Michigan. Now, Eye,
he's got to go. Oh to Ohio State fans, this
(52:19):
means that he's got to go because that's the game
that counts. Yeah, but what about all the other games
that he's winning. You know when those games count, Jonas,
when he starts losing them, they don't matter now because oh,
he's eleven to O, he's twelve and O.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
He gets to twelve and one. Got a firing Franklin
and Penn State.
Speaker 4 (52:41):
First season, and who knows how long that they went
undefeated on the road. They have no road losses, they
have one loss at home and now one loss because
it's to Ohio State. It's like he can't win the
big game. It's to Big Ten. Their strength of schedule,
they don't play anybody, it's the Big Ten. They're playing
(53:02):
against the same teams that are in the conference that
everybody else is playing against. And people have a problem
with it when he loses one game. While it is
the one big game, it still is delusional to think
that you should just expect a coach and a team
to win that much. So sometimes you get what you want,
(53:25):
but then you don't get what you really like. In
your mind, I wanted us to be undefeated. I wanted
us to go to the super Bowl. I wanted us
to go to the Championship. I wanted us to win it.
There's only one team that can do it. And in
the league, if you ain't.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Cheering for Kansas City, you haven't really had an.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Imagine being a Ravens fan, how close are you? Imagine
being a Bills fan? How close are you? But yet
how far away are you?
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (53:53):
So I don't know dysfunction, they'll get rid of you.
Functional you start to find it, you get better. So
to me, it says that the Buffalo Bills is a
functional organization. You know why, because they're very close and
yet they continue. I thought they hit their ceiling. They
didn't hit their ceiling. They look like they're getting better.
So that's a functional organization.
Speaker 5 (54:14):
Always defended when you know the Bangals, you know or
or you know looking around and they're looking at coaches
and and they're, you know, trying to decide whether or
not they want to keep Marvin Lewis. And I always
defended Marvin Lewis for this because they're like, oh, I
can't win a playoff game. Yeah, but they're.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
There there every year. I mean, that's what's going on
in Pittsburgh right now. People be wanting Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
Out of there. That's every years.
Speaker 4 (54:40):
It's a functional organization. They're competitive every year. Whether you
thought they were frauds or not, they are in it
every single year. In the conversation for the for the
AFC North and they're in the conversation for what can
they do in the playoffs every single year.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
But yet it's not good enough. You gotta you gotta
be realistic.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
On what you want your ROI to be as a fan,
and I think that's what it ultimately comes down to.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
One more herd. The herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowhert
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oooh y'ah.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
It gets from allD at Corn Breed. Hope y'all had
a whole lot of corn brand out there. Yeah, I'm
looking at some corn breeding. It is the Herd on
Fox Sports Radio. But it's not Colin Cowherd. It's not
Jason McIntyre, it's not Ryan Music. There's no Greg Toy
(00:54):
to be found. It's LeVar Arrington, Jonas Knox with you here.
We do a show called Two Pros and a Cup
and show which you can hear weekday mornings from six
to nine am Eastern time three to six am Pacific time.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Normally we do that show with Brady Quinn. Brady is
not with us today, so it is Styx and Eye
keeping you company all the way up for the next
three hours.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Here on Fox Sports right that.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
I wish we could hang out with our peeps for
longer than that, but we'll make it work.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, you know, let's let's do what we can do.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
So let's dive right into it, because there is a
I'll just put it this way. Whatever issues you have
in your life, and there could be a lot of
things going wrong, just take.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Solace in the fact you're not a beer man.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That is correct, which is funny because only up till
recently you would have said that about both these days.
It's just now, all of a sudden, it's cool to
be a Lions thing.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
I mean, Detroit Lions are staring an eighth loss in
a row on Thanksgiving. Even in the midst of being
the best steam in football potentially, I still wanted to
lose it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Oh my god. They were trying.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
I mean, you got to halftime and the Bears had
I think one or two first downs that they picked
up on the final drive before half. Other than that,
the Lions were dominating and it was only a two
score game and it's sixteen nothing. You're thinking, well, it's
a little bit close. And then as this happened and.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It gets real close, like wait, wait, hold on a second,
like it feels like a blowout.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Because it's not a blowout, because this is the same
thing that has gone on for this team, and we've
talked about it on our show at nauseum, like, hey,
there's a theme here. Caleb Williams figures things out league games.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Caleb Williams is good man dude and kind of sucks
that he's in the situation.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
And he was rolling and then somehow, someway they figure
out a way to crap it away and blow the
game and cost themselves an opportunity to win.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
All right, let me ask you this before we go
any further. Yeah, because we've had multiple conversations about Caleb
Williams and had he gone to a better organization, Caleb
Williams is probably talked about much differently than how he
is right now. He was under duress like all gangs,
(03:17):
like Zadarius, all those guys Like I didn't realize he's
the most hit quarterback in the league, but he was.
He was picking himself up the entire game. That is
a real thing, Like you can get hit so much
as a quarterback that at some point you're you're ruined.
Who was that car the first car. Not not that
David Carr was ruined by just getting they hit him
(03:40):
too much.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, you gotta ask Ephrom Salam his thoughts on that,
because Ephram Salon, you know, he doesn't agree with that.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Well, he just thinks, say, listen, man, you know when
when the guy's scrambling and he runs out of bounds
four yards behind the line of scrimmage, that counts as
a sack giving up on the offensive line. Yeah, he's
all throw the ball away, So that doesn't you know. Yeah,
but they let that man hit way too much.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
He did shots out In all respect to my homie
he from He's a good dude, that's my guy. But
let me tell you something. Y'all was letting that man
get hit too much. And he's he got shell shocked,
bro like. And I think that Caleb is not going
I just don't think he has the mental makeup to
become a shell shocked type of guy or finds himself
(04:21):
with the yips because of everything that took place. But
what I will say is he continues to compete, and
he continues to try to find a way yet instill,
and I think that's always going to be the conversation
about someone who could possibly be a franchise guy bona
fide at the league level is they do it in
(04:42):
spite of this Bears team is not a good team.
They have some pieces on both sides of the ball,
but for some strange reason, they have not found a
way to be a better team than what they have
been yet. I look at this and I say, you
got a doomsday. You got Keenan Island who Finally, I mean,
(05:07):
that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
The artistry, I would say, you do have the makings
of saying, Okay, build out, build out, build out. Develop
this year. Figure out what you need to do to
put in place for for Caleb. Like, you got a
running back, Like if you keep swift and swift stays healthy, healthy,
(05:28):
You've got a running back. You've got receivers, You've got
a few offensive linemen. You need more, Uh, you have,
you have linebackers, you have, you have a secondary, but
you need more.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
If they can.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Figure out how to build a formidable group of personnel
around Caleb Williams, next year could be serious because this
is a competitive team that can't win right now. They're
not a non competitive team. This is not a team
that you're looking at and it's like the game we'll
talk about after this one. It's not like you're looking
(06:03):
at a New York Giants team that you really have
nothing to stand on at all. This is a team
where you could say, I feel really good about Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Just don't ruin it.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Don't ruin it for the city, don't ruin it for
this this this player that is such a young bright star.
Don't ruin it. Do what you need to do. I
don't care if it's a coaching change. Bring in somebody
that he can relate to or that understands what's going
on like they're out there. I mean, we'll talk about
the Green Bay game. I have more and more of
(06:38):
a respect for Matt Lafleur every single day, Bro, every
single day, My my, My build up and and and
growth of respect for what he does as a coach
gets higher.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Bring in a guy.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
If this guy currently is not the guy to do it,
cut the cord now. Bring in a guy that can
get the most, like a Dan Campbell, that can get
the most out of this team, so that you can
get the most out of Kayleb Williams. It would be
one of the biggest waste if Cayleb Williams doesn't turn
out to be one of the top quarterbacks in this league.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Well, the guy that you're referring to is Matt Matt
eberfl I almost said Lafloor.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, it was because you wanted it to be.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Well, I did, because they'd be nine to three. Instead
they're four and eight and h and they're looking at
another top ten draft pick based on how the season
is gone. But Matt eberflus Uh spoke today with the
media in Chicago and tried to explain away what the
hell was going on the final thirty seconds of that
(07:44):
game with a timeout remaining.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
What are you doing?
Speaker 5 (07:48):
It?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Just what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And and for the record, Jonas for the record, you
gotta think about this. If the receiver keeps running, that's
six points. If you watch the play again, the receiver
turns around, slows down. If the receiver keeps running, that's
(08:15):
six points. That's six points. It's the whole oddo. So
the ball was where it needed to be. But I
will say this, they should have called time. Yeah, and
so Maddie and they should have been moving quicker than
what they were on the play.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Before but go.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
So Maddy Eberflus spoke earlier about his decision to knock
all the time out there.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
We got sacked and it was you know, third and
twenty six, you know, with the thirty six seconds there,
got sacked there at thirty two, and then our decision
at that point was to be on the ball, hold
our time out and get the playoff at fifteen to
ten seconds in that range, throw it into the field
goal range there, and then call timeout and then kick
(08:56):
the game winner on fourth down. The operation wasn't fast
enough and we didn't do a good job of executing
there in that moment, and that was the decision that
we made and went with during that time.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And also know that the other option.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
That you could have had was at you know, thirty
to twenty eight seconds, you call timeout there and then
you have no timeouts. You throw the ball the same
type of play throw it in there, and then you
do your fast field goal into the game there and
then kick the game or the game tire.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
There to force it to overtime.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
So those are the two options that we had.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
We want the first option.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yeah, it wasn't close, no, Yeah, those were those were
the two options. Did you know that at the time,
because I don't know that Anyboddy do that at the time.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
They were moving so slow for one for two, like
this is the last play of the game, Like you
knew that when they were snapping the ball. It was
like three seconds left right something like that. Six seconds,
six seconds? Yeah, call time out, you know it's the
last play of the game.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
When he gets sacked, call time out. It's third down.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
You can run a quick play, get down and spike it,
just like you did the previous week when you set
up for the tying field goal against Minnesota or run
a play out of bounds.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
What you just need a field goal to tie.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
He's a proper against Look, I'm telling you right now,
I wonder if if they're so scared of attempting a
field goal based on what's half in the past couple
of weeks and they're like, yeah, we know three ties,
but we're gonna go for the win.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Here. I cannot explain what that was.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
I don't And look, Caleb Williams had he should have
called time out of time. He's culpable in this as
well too. But the coach is supposed to be the
fail safe for a rookie quarterback, or any quarterback for
that matter. He's the guy running the team. He's standing
there looking around, and even Tony Romo, who hasn't prepped
(11:03):
for a game in thirty years, is saying, whoa what
are you doing? Call time out, Jim. Everybody's saying watch
it like I'm watching in shock. Like my son is
rifling down a cinnamon roll faster than anything I've ever
seen in my life. He looks like the fat eye
off stand by me in the pie eating contest, and
(11:23):
I've got to make sure he's not choking.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
But I'm looking at the bears ga and go, what
is happening here? I can't. I don't get it none.
If it makes any sense.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
That's what makes it make sense, is the lack of sense.
Is it worse than the Hail Mary loss? Because I
think that's what I was saying. Commanders showed you how
to do it. Why did you do it the way
they did it?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
You can swear to God, I think it's worse than
the commanders.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
They were close, they were close, they were close, and
like you said, it wasn't a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
But they only needed three points.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
They only needed three points, so I'm going to take
my chances with trying to get the ball out of bounds.
Keep the ball going out of bounds for a couple
plays that you had. Maybe you do a deep ball.
Maybe you do it deep ball to get into what
would be perceived as phield gold rains, and you take
a try at it and see if you could get
(12:14):
it into overtime.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
That's I mean, you weren't.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
No one was expecting this team to be that close
to Detroit, and and for what it's worth, it didn't
feel like a game that was close. It just it
felt like they were getting dominated. They were getting handled
up front. The running game was working. They talked about
Sonic and Knuckles, you know, the backfield being as impressive
(12:38):
as it is for.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Such cheesy Jesus.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Their shoes were kind of tight though, like the Sonic,
the Hedgehog and the Knuckle shoes that they were kind
of tight.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Let's be cartoon characters like well, their shoes, okay, their
shoes in their nicknames. I mean, you had earth Wind
and Fire for the Giants with Bradshaw and Jacobs and
who was the third one on that branch Bradshaw Jacobs,
who was the third one there was another one. Uh,
I'm forgetting this and and ah man, what's his name?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I play with the running back? Yeah, I played with him.
I can't remember it off the top of my head,
but they were earth winding fire like the singing group.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek what's his last name?
Come on, man, come on, come on, Lee Derek White.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
No, no, no, anyway, I'm just saying. Derek Ward shouts out.
I'm sorry, Derek d Ward. Listen. That's a good backfield
and that's a really good team and they are as
good as advertised. I just felt as though that was
interesting because the Bears had a strong opportunity to take
(13:51):
advantage of a divisional opponent that is the top in
the NFC and possibly get it to overtime or possibly
even maybe after getting dominated dominated the way, that they
did actually have a chance to win the game, and
and they they they blewed opportunity.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
You know, made a great point that so old and
Cruiz guy you played against Chicago Bear legend. So he
was doing a postgame show on the score in Chicago,
and he made a great point where he said, I
was watching the game and for the first time I
realized all the Bears have the playmaker at quarterback, Like
(14:28):
if somebody is gonna win, Like if if if one
of the quarterbacks was going to win that game for
for their team, it was gonna be Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Barratt, No, I'm not saying on the year.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
In that game yesterday, Caleb Williams was one making and
then it just comes getting laced up though, bro laced
up and then like he took that hit to the
hip or whatever it was and then threw a touchdown pass.
Right afterwards, he threw the dime to de j Moore
and on the sideline into the end zone.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Bro, lads, play was a dime for a touchdown. Everybody
out there listening, you get an opportunity. Look at the
last player the Bears Detroit Lion game. It was in
position to be a touchdown catch. If that receiver runs
to the point of where the ball is supposed to
where the ball was, if he's running instead of turned
(15:25):
around looking, turn around, look go like get the ball.
If he does that, that's six points. I mean, that's
six points. So I'm with you there and I'm oling
on that, but I ain't going I'm not going to
under sail what Jared right to the table, and Jared
was bringing it to the table yesterday too.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
There's no under selling. But Detroit was rattled down the stretch.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
I don't think they could understand why the game was
as close as it was the way.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
They were playing, and the Bears bailed them out with
another disaster. When it comes to situational football, which situational
football is that? Or is that not on the coach?
Like I mean, the situational football is on the coach,
just ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and NED Eastern not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Right now, we turn it over to Albert Breer, Amazon,
NFL on Prime Insider, Senior NFL reporter, lead content strategist
at the MMQB at Albert.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Breer on ex Abe.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
We know it's the game this weekend, but we do
have some breaking news that I think you just tweeted
out according to sources in Chicago.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Yeah, so the Bears are firing that he flues Thomas
Brown is going to be the interim coach. We're still
getting this and as.
Speaker 7 (16:45):
As we go along here.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
But yeah, I mean, I guess not a real shocker.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
It's actually interesting because the Bears coaches were set to.
Speaker 8 (16:55):
You know, get you know, go through their meetings and
everything else and be off at Central today. So now
it's done and Thomas Brown takes over for the time being,
and you're a lot of the come.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
We just talked about this in the first segment. I mean,
if you're going to cut the court, cut the court
because you don't want to risk the actual deal of
being one of the teams or a team that falls
on the list of biggest waste of player of a
draft pick in the history of the game. And I
think we all see the potential in Caleb Williams ab
(17:33):
I'm curious how much of this game had to do
with him, you know, losing his job. Was this do
you do you feel like this was something in the
making or was this purely based upon the bad clock
management at the end of the game and the fact
that they could have possibly won against the top team
(17:54):
in their division and in the conference on Thanksgiving?
Speaker 8 (18:00):
Yeah, I'd say this was maybe like the final draw,
you know, And I think Levars, you know, like these
things a lot of times can come down to where
the locker room is on the coach right, and you know,
as things get as a heat turns up, sometimes there's
finger pointing and everything else. And you know, I don't
(18:21):
think any team, you know, even if things go really
bad once to go through this sort of upheaval in
the season where they fire an offensive coordinator find a
head coach a couple of weeks later.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
However, I do think some of the things that.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Happened at the end of the game last year but
last yesterday play into this. And maybe the biggest thing
to me, at least is where you know you have
where is where you have a situation where clearly, you
know rookie quarterback was sort of struggling with what to
do in the in the final minute, and I you know,
(18:54):
you watch Caleb, you can see the wheels turning in
his head.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
And I don't think that in.
Speaker 8 (18:59):
A vacuum is the end of the world. What I
do think is a problem is when Mattieberflus stepped the
podium afterwards and and basically more or less absolved himself
and his staff of blame. You know, I just think
that's one of those situations where you know, even if
(19:19):
it was on Kleb after a rookie quarterback out there,
it's on you for not managing that situation accordingly, you know.
And so whether it's having the guy, you're having the
guy more ready for the situation, or or knowing that
he's going to struggle in that situation so you call
the time out quicker, regardless of what it is, like,
(19:42):
you can't point the finger of the player, you know.
And I think that.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
That's how you lose a team.
Speaker 8 (19:48):
And I'm not saying that Ibraflues lost the team completely.
They obviously played hard yesterday and they have played hard
this year in general, you know, but I think in
a situation like that, that's where you start to look
at it and say, okay, mis situation.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
It's not the that's happened.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
We already pulled the trigger on changing offensive coordinators, and
you know, and now here we go, like, you know,
how is the coach going to react to it in
the aftermath, and the aftermath it was you know, I
think was trying to be honest.
Speaker 7 (20:21):
You know, I don't think he was.
Speaker 8 (20:22):
I don't think there was all intent, but you know,
I think that you know, if you're a player in
that locker room, you look at you say, well, you're
blaming a rookie.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
You know, it's not really the right thing to do
in that situation.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Albert Breer joining us here on Fox Sports Radio, Amazon,
NFL on Prime Insider, Senior NFL reporter, Lead Content Strategies
at the MMQB, with the breaking news that the Chicago
Bears have just fired Matt Eberfluss as head coach following
yesterday's disastrous ending. And they've never done this in the
history of the organization. They've been around over a century
(20:54):
and they've never fired a coach in season. And one
of the conversations that was being had before the game was, well,
if they get blown out and it looks really ugly,
could there be a coaching change on Friday? I almost think, look,
if they would have lost that game by you know, sixteen,
seventeen points, whatever it was, Maddyberflus is still the coach.
(21:15):
Just the optics of how that all played out just
not great. And when you consider end of game situations
like Washington, you know, the Packers, and then the next
week they get a field goal blocked again from the
same exact spot. It just felt like it was heading
in this direction. My question to you, AB would be,
what normally it feels like this is where they would
(21:37):
go in the direction of an offensive minded coach for
the permanent job. And you know, Ben Johnson's Name's been
out there, so there's some good candidates though, agree with you.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Here's where I would here, here's you know where my
warning about that sort of idea comes in. I just
feel like sometimes as well, that's just too to put
it that way, but it's like, like I think sometimeation
is when you go one way and it doesn't work
(22:09):
to correct by going the other direction altogether, you know
what I mean. Like, so we didn't like the defensive coach,
so we're gonna go with the offensive coach. We didn't
like the first coach, so we're going to go with
the experience coach. We didn't like the players coach, so
we're going to go with the hard ass, you know
what I mean. Like, And I feel like teams do
that enough times and you start to lose any sort
(22:29):
of identity the franchise might have or have an opportunity
to build, you know, So like I just you know,
and and again, like you know, I think you can
see that in the Bears, right Like, So the Bears
went from you know, the offensive guru and Mark Tressman,
then to then go on with the experienced, you know,
(22:50):
super Bowl coach and Shohn Fox, then back to the
young offensive guru and Matt and Maggy, then to the
rising experienced defensive coach and Eberflus to the swing right back.
Speaker 7 (23:03):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (23:05):
I think sometimes you do that enough times and it's like, well,
you're not really doing anything, you know what I mean?
Speaker 7 (23:12):
Like, so, yeah, I agree with you that they.
Speaker 8 (23:13):
Need people around Caleb Williams to nursure him and bring
him along. I also think you can kind of cut
off your knees to fight your face sometimes if you're
just looking in one bucket, Like I think the pairs
owe it to themselves here to not like limit themselves
that way, and maybe you wind up on the offensive
coach anyway, But last time I checked, well, Tom Brady
(23:35):
had a pretty good career playing for Bill Belichick.
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Russell Wilson had a.
Speaker 8 (23:38):
Great decade playing for Pete Carroll. Lamar Jackson's had a
great career to this point playing for John Harbaugh. You
know what, I mean like, so, I mean you sell
me the evidence. I mean, yeah, you have Andy Reid
and Patrick Holmes, so it's happened, you know, for sure.
But I don't think there's overwhelming evidence that you have
to do it that way to get it right with.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
The core Abe, you mentioned a lot of coaches there
that have had success with their quarterbacks. Another team, another
two teams that were playing.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
I'll give you one more.
Speaker 8 (24:10):
I'll give you one more, one more because that's a guy,
because I don't I don't want to be I don't
want to be disrespectful here. But another obvious one Jim
Mora and Antony Done and Peyton Manning.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right, Yeah, Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 8 (24:21):
There you go anyway, anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Well, I was going to ask when you look at
what took place with the Cowboys and the Giants yesterday,
obviously in a way of feel good story for for
the Cowboys to be able to find their way to
a two game winning streak after losing their franchise quarterback
(24:45):
to to injury, but then you look at the other
side of it and it's like, wow, what a really,
really bad team in the New York Giants and looking
at it. Not many people would say day Ball is
a bad coach. In fact, many people lot the type
of coach that day Ball is. But is it has
(25:09):
it come to a point of where, maybe, you know,
looking at it from what their record is a two
win record and they just lose again on on Thanksgiving,
that his time is more so than now with with
you know, McCarthy. Out of those two teams in the nfcast,
if you would have said to me which got which
(25:29):
team is going to go for a new head coach
come to the off season, I would have said one
it would be the Cowboys, while now it looks.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Like it's going to be the New York Giants.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot there, LeVar, like I
would say, like it's uglier right now in New York.
I mean, I think here here's the one. I mean,
I think you have to give McCarthy some credit for
them fighting the last couple of weeks the way they
have right Like they've looked dead at points, and I mean,
so to draw that sort of performs, you know, coming
out of a really ugly loss on Monday Night to Houston,
(26:05):
what was that now ten days ago, eleven days ago?
I mean, like I think, like just getting the effort
they've gotten, you know, in Washington against a good commander's team,
and then you know, on Thanksgiving and winning going away
against the Giants, like I as without Dak Prescott, that's
a cdee lamb that beat up. So Micah Parson is
probably still not at one hundred percent right Like though,
(26:28):
I think you got to give Mike McCarthy some credit,
Like it might not save his job because his contracts
up and everything else, but you know, certainly I think
he deserves I think certainly, I think you you know,
you look at him, and you know he deserves some
credit for that, you know, Like I think the Giants
right now, I think the intention is to keep Brian
Davell and Joe Shannon charge. And I think it's part
(26:51):
partly an acknowledgment that after that first year they still
had a long way to go and the rosters still
need to be rebuilt in a very serious way.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
Now.
Speaker 8 (27:00):
I think you look at like the foundation there, and
there is a foundation in place with the left tackle
Andrew Thomas receiver of league neighbors. The guys in the
defensive front Dexter Lawrence might be the Defensive Player of
the Year Brian Burns. So there's a foundation in place.
I think the problem is you can counteract that with
two things now right. Number one, it's Daniel Jones and
(27:24):
Saquon Barkley and the decisions they made on those contracts
and what those look like two years out right, and
then where the team is headed in the trajectory, right, Like,
so you know, the Marrors.
Speaker 7 (27:36):
Planned to be patient and take.
Speaker 8 (27:38):
Their time and you know, give Joe Judge another year
in twenty one, and then that press conference happened at
the end and everything came unraveled, and so like, I
think that the Marrors want to keep day ball in Shane,
but couldn't like really unravel and go the way that
things went with Judge two or three years ago.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
I think that certainly could be the case.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
So you know, again, like if they can, if they
oh competent and put an effort and won a couple
of games down the stretch, I think they'll be okay.
If things unravel, you know, we could be talking about
something else.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Albert Brier joining us here on Fox Sports Radio, LeVar Arrington,
Jonas Knox.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
In for Colin Coward here on the herd.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
So obviously, you know the news of Maddie Briflus being
fired a short time ago, and and the conversation about
you know, other coaches that could be out after this
season or possibly in season, if you were just to
bet right now, like if you got feeling obviously the
big names that are out there, Mike Rabel, Bill Belichick,
(28:40):
you know, Ben Johnson potentially if you've got to pick
the landing spot for each of those, is Chicago in
the mix for either of those? Belichick or Mike Rabel
and potentially Ben Johnson.
Speaker 8 (28:53):
So Ben Johnson, I think if you'd asked them a
year ago, it might have been the shot you wanted.
I don't know if that's gonna be the case.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
It's the same way.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
They're in division with them obviously, you know. But but
I but I know he had interest last year, So
I think that's possible. And like I do think they've
got the infrastructure where he could just coach. I'm a
little less certain of Belichick and Brabell. I think the
job in a vacuum would appeal to Belichick, and I
was able to the question is like you've got Kevin
(29:22):
Warren as a team president, you got Ryan Poles as
the general manager, Like, how did this whole thing look
under verybel under Belichick, Because unless they're going to be
able to shape the organization a certain way, they may
be hesitant to go there, you know. So I think,
you know, like you you know, you look at a
Ben Johnson, who's you know, ostensibly the first time, first
(29:45):
time head coach, going to go there just to coach,
and I think it really could be a very attractive
job with Caleb there and the roster they have in
placed and everything else, you know, for guys like rabel
and Belichick who may have like a more I guess
a more a more global look at like how they
want to set up the entire organization. Unless those guys
are being to make some bigger changes, it's just who's
(30:06):
going to be on their coaching staff. They could wind
up talking at the idea of ABE.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I was watching this Dolphins Packers game yesterday and I
just started having all kinds of different conversations with myself,
not with the people who are around me, just in
my own mind and in my own head, and I'm
like thinking about gun Kunsten, all these other individuals, you know,
Laflor and I'm like, okay, you know, let it be
(30:36):
told the way you know, Aaron Rodgers kind of aired
out everything going into the season before his last season
when he set things straight as it applied to him
in the front office, and then fast forward to his
final season there and how everything kind of unfolded. If
you're looking at what this Green Bay pack his team
(31:00):
looks like at nine and three, this is as good
a team as as it has looked as the Green
Bay Packers as it did when they made it to
the Divisional Championship round. They they literally are playing at
that high of a level and you're doing it with
(31:21):
a guy that you drafted to replace the guy who
seemingly has been the one common denominator, and they're being
confusion and fallout wherever it is that he's at. What
type of what's the thought process on them getting the
(31:42):
running back getting rid of Aaron Jones, which I thought was, Man,
that's a that's a tough one to kind of recover from.
But nonetheless, you do it, and then you you get
the type of you know, the type of production you're
getting from Josh Jacobs. It just seems like they're operating
out a super super high level, maybe even higher than
(32:04):
what it was when Aaron Rodgers is there. How is
that being perceived by that, by the media, by the
the you know, the inner workings of the league.
Speaker 8 (32:13):
I think like the coolest thing about it is, like,
so last year, I'd say a big part of their
story was Jordan Love got hot at the end of
the year and they were able to go and you know,
get these shootouts and winning that sort of setting. It's
great to see your young quarterback do that.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
To me, it's really.
Speaker 8 (32:32):
Cool about what's happened since is between the hire of
Jeff Hafley to run the defense, some of the moves
they made on that side of the ball. Signing Xavier
McKinney was a huge one, very big, you know, and
then and then and then bringing in Josh Jacobs. They're
now a team that can win a million different ways,
you know what I mean. Like, so this is like
an all weather football team that.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
Yeah, I think has a chance.
Speaker 8 (32:56):
Like even on a day where maybe it's snowingside, he's
in Jordan Love throw us for one hundred and seventy
five yards because you can't do more than that. In
the past game, the Packers can win that game, now,
you know what I mean, And I think it's it's
really a credit to a lot of people there because
they've had good players there for a long time, but
being able to see the finishing pieces, like, you know,
(33:19):
even like having the humility to say, maybe we struck
out on our first round staft, they didn't strike out,
but just we haven't gotten quite enough out of Darnell Savage,
So like, let's let him go and go get Xavier McKinney.
We really love Aaron Jones and everything he's meant to
our franchise, but god, there's an upgrade out there. Let's
go get Josh Jacobs. You know, I just I think
those sorts.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
Of decisions are difficult decisions.
Speaker 8 (33:41):
To make that they deserve a lot of credit for it,
because those are the types of things that I think
could put them over the top. Even firing Joe Barry
Wott Muffloor is very close with and bringing in Jeff Hafley,
it's I think across the board. You know, they've done
a really nice job of setting it up a certain
way so they're quarterback can be superman, but he doesn't
have to be superman every week. I'm to win, And
(34:05):
I think you thought last night, I love the Jacob
sign because I think it sort of fits with Barkley too.
Speaker 7 (34:11):
And that running backs.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
I think I think some of the smartphone offices looked
at it last year coming out of the season, We're like,
you know, that position has been devalued to the point
where it's becoming a value again. Going and getting one
of those guys is.
Speaker 7 (34:26):
Actually great value now.
Speaker 8 (34:28):
And if you think about it, like, and this is
the way the Eagles looked at it, getting Saquon Barkley
costs them what it costs the Falcons to go get
Darnell Moon.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
Think about that right now.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
Darnell Mooney is a good player, don't get me wrong,
and it's really valuable to Atlanta this year and everything else.
But he's your second or third receiver, and Saquon Barkley
touches the ball three hundred times in a year, you
know what I mean. Like, so it's just I think
it's like, it's like the ability to make those adjustments
on the fly, to flip out Jones, for Jacobs, to
(34:58):
flip out Savage, for McKinney to feel about Barry for
for for Halflee, and then ultimately you know, like being
willing to kind of come off of some some things
that some some some preconceived notions that people in the
league might have about certain positions. I think is what
put the Packers where they are today.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Yeah, it's like the top three leading rushers in the NFL, Barkley,
Henry Jacobs, all guys whose former team was like, now
we're good here, okay.
Speaker 8 (35:24):
Right, and and it's like if you think about it,
and it's like what are they paying for those guys?
I mean, I mean like like like Henry's making eight
million bucks, Like that's their backup quarterbacks would make that,
you know what I mean. Like, it's just it's crazy
when you think about it, because like everybody's gotten so
locked into well edge rusher, you know, left tackle, receiver, corner, quarterback,
(35:47):
like and then just don't worry about anything else. Well,
you know, somewhere along the line, the pay at those
positions dropped to the point where it's like, okay, all
of a sudden, like this is a really good David
McKinney another one in safety, you know what, safety market
fell out, so the Packers are able to get good
good be there because the rest of the league doesn't
value them properly. You know, I think it's a really interesting,
(36:08):
interesting thing that that that that happened this offseason. I
think it's certainly benefited both the Packers and Eagles.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
Albert Breer, with the breaking news of Maddie Refluce being fired,
we didn't have any time to get to the game
this weekend, but we wanted to send you off.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
With this just to try and get you, get you
fired up down at the worshoe. I hope you'll lose.
Speaker 8 (36:28):
How about how about this so my seat, I believe
are like almost right on top of the fox.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Set on the field.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
All right, nice, Hey, you better, you better harass the
hell out of Brady Quinn tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Please.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Yeah, Like maybe I see it's too late, but I
would have.
Speaker 8 (36:43):
Had you guys send me like Brady Quinn sucks T shirts.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Darn. I could have put all my buddies in them.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Oh, I've got I've got a ton of those multiple colors.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
We could have we get a decked you all out perfectly, Albert,
Thanks you guys lose a b but but good luck
to you.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Thanks Amy, we'veppreciate it all.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
Right, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
All right, buddy, You're welcome.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
I wish you luck, but but on on the inside
a B I'm hoping you guys lose.
Speaker 7 (37:09):
I never Michigan large practice.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I fear I feel you there, I feel you there.
But you know, we get that big ten opportunity against Oregon.
You guys didn't want to do it.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Yeah, no, no, no, I understand that one.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah yeah, all right, there you go. All right, hope
you had a great Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
There he is the great Alberbreer with us here on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noone Easter, not a im Pacific.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
We were wondering, all right here on a Black Friday, tang,
how'd you say it? What type of Friday? Black Friday? Hey?
Speaker 5 (37:42):
Or as Rob Parker would say, what would he say?
And by the way, this is robin ized jokes. Everybody's clear.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Fridays.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
Well, I don't know about you, but every Friday's Black
Friday for me, which I have to I owe a
text later.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
That's that's our yearly tradition.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
But we were waiting to see whether or not there
was going to be any news out of the NFL
following the games yesterday. We've got another one coming up
later on that We're going to get into the Raiders
and the Chiefs at some point. And the news is
not great for Mattie Refluse. He was fired by the
Chicago Bears less than an hour ago after that disaster
of a performance by the Bears towards the end of
(38:23):
that game against the Detroit Lions yesterday. So the first
time in the history of the franchise that Bears are
firing a head coach in season.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And here's the best part about that whole what's the
best part? Seem the best part?
Speaker 5 (38:36):
How about the fact that they let Maddib Refluse do
a zoom call with the media and then fired him
after the zoom call with the media. We're in shows,
we're in show biz. They tell you let him finish
the show before.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You let them go. They're gonna fire you before the show,
even though you got one more show to do. He
shows we'll hit you after you've done.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
He shows up to talk to the media on the
zoom call and the media is like, are you planning
on being the coach? And Maddie Refluse says, yeah, listen,
I'm mom planning. Operations are normal I'm gonna be the
head coaches. We get ready for San Francisco, and then
like an hour and a half later, the Bears like,
hey man, you got.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
A second uh yeah, riverside, but.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
You could get an early start on your your holiday,
get shopping, your your vacation time.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Like you know, we're going to go in a different direction,
huck man. I mean.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Keenan Allen I thought had the most telling statement following
the game yesterday when he said the following, I felt
like we as players put ourselves in a position to
win as when you separate that fame.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Not us as a team, like us as players.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Malik Naghbors probably saw that, and we're like, damn, that's
pretty good. I should use that the next time I
air out the organization or my head coach. But it's
just not a great situation. It wasn't a great situation.
And now the conversation becomes where do you turn to next?
And look, Jim Harbaugh wanted the job last year, Like
(40:17):
that's mean, like everybody's known that, Like that's one of it.
That was one of his spots. Yeah, because they played
they drafted him and so that was an opportunity. And
now they're going to be looking to try and bring
somebody else in and they're going to go with Thomas
Brown the OC there.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I just.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
You hope, and we talked a little bit with Albert
Breer about this last hour, like you would hope that
they don't do the whole Well, last coach was a
defensive coach. Now we're going to do an offensive coach
and now we're gonna but it just feels like with
this organization, and you've talked about it with the Jets,
dysfunction is your MVP dysfunction And there is dysfunction.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Again, you cannot outperform dysfunction. I would challenge anyone who's
listening to us have a conversation. How many times have
you seen in an organization, a business, a relationship, anything,
anything that you want to take a look at of
(41:15):
real substance that you're looking for an ROI on it,
whether it be love, whether it be revenue, you know, money,
whatever it is. Where have you ever seen success and
skill and talent and even love whatever it may be,
When have you ever seen it outperform dysfunction? And I listen,
(41:41):
I lived in it as a player, and you start
to try to make sense of it. It's almost like
an abusive relationship when you're in a place that is
so dysfunctional, because there's two ways of looking at it.
One is self preservation, so you don't subscribe to all
of the elements that play a part in what that
(42:02):
dysfunction is, and you stay to yourself. You do your
job to the best of your ability, and you try
to keep that healthy amount of distance in space between
where the dysfunction is coming from. But that doesn't help
to cure or solve the dysfunction, and you're not going
to get that person's best foot forward in those situations,
(42:25):
just not going to happen. Then there's the other side
of it where it's like, and you may have heard
this before, I can fix it.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
That's the biggest the biggest.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
One, right is they need me, This job needs me,
this team needs me, this relationship needs me. Whatever it is,
I can fix it. And that, to me is where
it goes so wrong. And it has that, it has
that abusive feel. It's like, why didn't you leave? Why
didn't you say anything? Because I thought I could fix it?
(42:59):
And you know what, it has always been undefeated. Dysfunction
has always been undefeated. You cannot get positive results. You
can't get positive outcomes if there is dysfunction at the
level that we see it at with some of these organizations,
it's just not possible. So you can't sit there and
(43:22):
say you're you're confused, or you're surprised that this is
why what happened, or you already know. If you can
look at an organization like the New York Jets, it's
a dysfunctional organization. I don't care who you have as
a coach. I don't care who you draft as the players.
I don't care who you get as free agencies. As
(43:42):
the players. It's going to be a miss some way, somehow,
there's going to be a miss. So my challenge or
what my sentiments would be when you look at what
the Beers have done and they've been dysfunctional for some
time now, but now you have hope and Caleb Williams
(44:04):
as a franchise guy, my challenge would be as an organization,
as an owner of the organization, as the leads of
the organization, you have to take a look at what
your culture is and at the top you have to
address what the dysfunctional aspects and components of what you
(44:27):
bring to the table the Dallas Cowboys. Even right now
with an organization that's been so historically amazing in the
New York Giants, they got to take a look at
what that dysfunction has become and the culture that is
created on the way down all the way to your
players that are going on the field. I'm watching it
(44:48):
take place in Washington right now, where there is a
collective idea and body and belief that from the top,
if they can change the culture of what this organization
is from ownership and bring excitement and bring hope and
bring belief and buy in and a connection to not
only your employees within the building and the players, but
(45:10):
also with the community itself in a very real way,
you can indeed change the culture of It doesn't happen overnight,
doesn't happen quickly, but you can change the culture.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
These teams, the biggest issues are.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
At the top, and they're not being addressed because, well,
why would you address yourself? Sometimes that's the hardest thing
to do, is to find yourself in a situation where
you have to address yourself, and you'll find out which
one of these you know, which teams are doing that
seems like Detroit did that. Like hands off, we let
(45:48):
Dan Campbell come in. He came in with a very
very defined vision of what he wanted the culture of
this organization to be on down to its players, and
it's changed here in LA with the Chargers, seems as
though they brought in a guy in Harball. They trust
(46:08):
what he's his vision is, they trust how he wants
the culture to be and they've allowed him to do it.
And you can see it in the players and how
they play. You can see it in the results. And
then that carries over look at the fan base and
how it's growing for this Detroit Lions team. There's an overflow.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
They travel, come on, man, they try.
Speaker 5 (46:32):
And by the way, you call, and I always reference
this because I think it's important. You called a Lions
Browns game when Dan Campbell was there his first year
and that ended up being Baker Mayfields last year, and
so there's a lot in that conversation. But I always
I'm fascinated by that because that was really the beginning
(46:55):
of Listen, we're building something. Everybody laughed at Dan Campbell,
everybody all the way back to racing helmets and he's
he does double VENTI red eyes. He does two a day,
and like all these I just like, oh, he's one
of these other guys.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
And then you've just.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Slowly seen they build, they build, they draft well, Jared
Goffs completely, you know, rejuvenated his career. He's playing the
best football potentially of his career. And this is the
guy who went to a Super Bowl once. Like this
idea that if the Bears think that, all right, we
got rid of Matt Eberflus, who all right, now, now
(47:33):
everything's going to be good here, dude, they've since the
nineteen eighty five Bears, they've won six playoff games.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
That was forty years ago.
Speaker 5 (47:45):
Like, this is not just a Matt Eberflus his problem,
to your point, it rolls downhill.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
Something going on a long ass time.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
At some point, when you look at these disfunctional organizations,
you see the long laundry of major names that have
been brought in, whether it's a coach or whether it's
a player. You see this long list, and the results
generally may vary just a little bit. Maybe this coach
did make the playoffs, this coach didn't make the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
I mean, look at what's going on in Miami is
that dysfunction or not.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
I don't really know which means that it probably is
maybe the clock is struck midnight on Mike McDaniel and
now he's turning into a pumpkin.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Because that was not.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
The look of a like we said, this team is
really good with Tua.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Tua goes out.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
They're not really a good team. But now we got
to a back. They go cause it's cold. Can't be because
it's cold. A lot of them guys didn't have no
sleeves on their arms. Didn't look like it was cold
enough where you couldn't get out there and do what
you needed to do. It just didn't look good. When
you look at these teams and they bring in a
different coach, different coach, different coach, different coach, different players,
different players, but you're seeing the same results, like they
(48:58):
hit the same ceilings, like whether it be the record,
whether it be the amount of accomplishment. Did they make
it to the playoffs?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Did they not?
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Did they win a divisional title? What are they When
you look at these teams, it be the same exact ones,
changing coaches, changing players and getting the same results. They
get the same exact results. So you could get mad
at media for calling it out, calling it what they
think it is, calling it what it may be. The
(49:28):
bottom line is is if you're paying attention to your
organization and your organization is giving you it's it's like
meeting a person, right.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
If a person shows you who they are, you should
believe them.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
If an organization shows you who they are, you should
believe them. There's no reason as a fan to sit
there and say, because I'm a fan of this team,
I can look at it and it comes out and
it plays out differently.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
That's not that's not correct. If they've proven.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
To you that this is how they do things, this
is the way things go you, you guys are acting like, oh,
when I was talking about the Jets, like the Jets
won't win ten games, I said, the Jets will not
do double digit wins because the dysfunction is so high
in New York that they will not make it to
ten wins. Not because they don't have the talent. I
(50:15):
meant ten wins over the span of two seasons. So like,
just to be clear, that might be a stretch. That
might that might that might be a stretch too. All
I'm saying is a preseason games can why expect why
expect that that Aaron Rodgers is going to be the
catalyst of change and a dysfunctional organization.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
And now you found out, Now you figured out that
that is not the case.
Speaker 5 (50:40):
The Bears fired Lovey Smith after he went ten and six,
like they fired him after he went ten and six.
Remember how everybody, and I know this, people in Chicago
couldn't wait to get rid of Matt Naggy. They couldn't wait.
He had to go. He had no idea what he
was doing. He's he's ruining this organization. I don't know, man.
(51:01):
He finished with a winning record and he took him
to the playoffs twice.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
You know, we've done We've done a lot of media
and a lot of radio.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
The one thing that it is funny to me is
being being successful. There's there's levels to it, and there's
degrees of it. And a lot of times people aren't
happy with real success. They're not happy with real success.
They have this delusion or or this this just maybe
not living in reality of what a ten win season represents,
(51:34):
what a winning season represents. Now you look at you know,
the conversations that we've had historically on two pros and
a cup of Joe that you can catch by the
way Eastern Standard time at six am to nine am.
We are filling in for Colin Cowhers. That's Jonas Knox
on LaVar Arrington. The one thing that we have discussed
and have really talked about is in the college ranks, right,
(51:58):
and I know it's different than the league, but in
the college ranks, you'll have a day at Ohio State
and he's under fire and he's undefeated. It's like, wait,
hold on, what happened. Loses to Oregon. Eye, he's gotta go.
He's gotta go. You lose one game, you lose to Michigan. Now, Eye,
he's got to go. Oh to Ohio State fans, this
(52:19):
means that he's got to go because that's the game
that counts. Yeah, but what about all the other games
that he's winning. You know when those games count, Jonas,
when he starts losing them, they don't matter now because oh,
he's eleven to O, he's twelve and O.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
He gets to twelve and one. Got a firing Franklin
and Penn State.
Speaker 4 (52:41):
First season, and who knows how long that they went
undefeated on the road. They have no road losses, they
have one loss at home and now one loss because
it's to Ohio State. It's like he can't win the
big game. It's to Big Ten. Their strength of schedule,
they don't play anybody, it's the Big Ten. They're playing
(53:02):
against the same teams that are in the conference that
everybody else is playing against. And people have a problem
with it when he loses one game. While it is
the one big game, it still is delusional to think
that you should just expect a coach and a team
to win that much. So sometimes you get what you want,
(53:25):
but then you don't get what you really like. In
your mind, I wanted us to be undefeated. I wanted
us to go to the super Bowl. I wanted us
to go to the Championship. I wanted us to win it.
There's only one team that can do it. And in
the league, if you ain't.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Cheering for Kansas City, you haven't really had an.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Imagine being a Ravens fan, how close are you? Imagine
being a Bills fan? How close are you? But yet
how far away are you?
Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (53:53):
So I don't know dysfunction, they'll get rid of you.
Functional you start to find it, you get better. So
to me, it says that the Buffalo Bills is a
functional organization. You know why, because they're very close and
yet they continue. I thought they hit their ceiling. They
didn't hit their ceiling. They look like they're getting better.
So that's a functional organization.
Speaker 5 (54:14):
Always defended when you know the Bangals, you know or
or you know looking around and they're looking at coaches
and and they're, you know, trying to decide whether or
not they want to keep Marvin Lewis. And I always
defended Marvin Lewis for this because they're like, oh, I
can't win a playoff game. Yeah, but they're.
Speaker 4 (54:31):
There there every year. I mean, that's what's going on
in Pittsburgh right now. People be wanting Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
Out of there. That's every years.
Speaker 4 (54:40):
It's a functional organization. They're competitive every year. Whether you
thought they were frauds or not, they are in it
every single year. In the conversation for the for the
AFC North and they're in the conversation for what can
they do in the playoffs every single year.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
But yet it's not good enough. You gotta you gotta
be realistic.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
On what you want your ROI to be as a fan,
and I think that's what it ultimately comes down to.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
One more herd. The herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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