Best of The Herd

In this Best Of The Herd, it's obvious to Colin that Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant haven't worked in Brooklyn. The Nets are down a game to the Boston Celtics, can Brooklyn's stars save the series?  Also, the Los Angeles Lakers are unable to spot talent or develop it lately. Plus, what should the Niners do with Deebo Samuel? Finally, Jordan Palmer, quarterback consultant for qbsummit.com as well as Brevin Knight, former NBA point guard and current analyst for the Memphis Grizzlies. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of Herd podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday from twelve to
three eastern, nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. Find your local station for The Herd
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This
is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher on
Fox Sports Radio. It is a Wednesday. We are live

(00:28):
in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be
and however you may be listening iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio
and FS one. I am so excited for today's show
and so excited for tonight Nets Celtics. This is the
series I care about Nets now. The Clippers broke my heart.
Nets Celtics tonight. I'm not leaving the house. No alcohol,

(00:52):
total clarity. Have to see the game, inside the game.
Joey Taylor, you know him, into this series. This is
here the Nights. It's a great series. You see that
other series that I'm into. Oh it is out of
Miami one. Well, oh no, I have a closer on
our hands. Yeah, we'll see. This's gonna be fun tonight.

(01:12):
This is fun. I can't wait for tonight. Okay, Ben
Simmons may play, maybe doesn't play. He probably shouldn't play,
because that's just the way Brooklyn's been so um boy.
Who you choose as a dance partner will determine how
much fun you have at the dance. We are in
year three of Kde and Kyrie. You're three. If they

(01:36):
lose tonight and they're underdogs, they'll go down O two
and have statistically a seven percent chance to win, it'll
be over. And if they lose the series, here is
what we get through three years. And by the way,
these guys ain't getting younger, they're getting injured more. Year
one out in round one. Kyrie refused to play in

(02:00):
the bubble. He got precious autos. You're two Harden joint.
All three hurt out in round two. This year they
lose tonight, they'll be out in round one again. Folks,
if you were a couple of rock stars and you
broke up from the band and you joined and you
had three albums, two or flops and one was a

(02:23):
very very mild success, it didn't work. I mean, when
Don Henley and Glenn Fry left the Eagles, Don Henley
had multiple hits. Glenn Fry had a number one hit
and they got back together. They were like, we're better together,
and they had multiple hits in the Eastern Conference without Kauai,
without Lebron in the Eastern Conference. Lose tonight. It's two

(02:45):
first round exits and a second round exit and tons
of injuries in drama. And then add this layer to it,
Luca's hurt in the West, Devin Booker's hamstrings a problem,
Lakers Clippers out Here comes Golden State m flourishing best

(03:09):
they've played all year, clobbering Denver folks. It's going to
be a bad couple of weeks potentially for KD and Kyrie.
Golden State's flourishing without him, a very quick reboot. The
Celtics are going to flourish, win this series potentially without Kyrie.

(03:30):
James Harden left him both and he's gonna win his series.
And these two guys that are smarter than all of us,
Katie and Kyrie have a little feel like all the
Bitcoin NFT guys ever noticed that nine two people who
invest in Bitcoin and NFT are renters, can't afford a home.
But they're going to tell all of us the future

(03:50):
of economics in America, right, NFTs are already cryptocurrency. Anybody's guests,
but they're all experts. Katie Kyrie, they knew better. They
knew better than the Celtics tradition and Brad Stevens. They
knew better than Golden State, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Draymond

(04:10):
and Steve Carr. They knew better. A loss tonight, two
first round exits and a second round exit. I'm sorry.
Seven eight years ago, people were arguing in my space,
Joyce Space, this talk space, Katie Lebron were one in
one A come on now, if you break up with

(04:34):
a successful band, join forces with another rock star. Three
albums to flop, others of mild success. Time to go
back to the original band, Time to go back. This
is big tonight. And by the way, Brooklyn's an underdog.

(04:55):
Kyrie flipped the fans off, so they're gonna be a
no mood for him. This is gonna be the best
first round game ever. Tonight could be the most intense
first round game in NBA Playoff history. And Legacy's get
formed on this stuff. They get formed. I mean, these
are the moments where my gut feeling tells me Kady

(05:17):
and Kyrie win that. My gut tells me they're gonna
figure it out tonight. They're not ready to waive that
white flag. They're gonna give them everything, and it's gonna
be just magical. The villains go into Boston. They hate
Kyrie and he's scored now. I don't think Kyrie will
be as good tonight. I do think Kevin Durant will
rebound and put on an all time epic performance. But

(05:38):
this is gonna be amazing. This is I don't preview
games a lot. This is gonna be a great game.
This is a big deal. You don't leave the band
hoping for three albums and two flops. That's not that's
not why you left the band. You left the band
because you wanted to prove I don't need the band.
Don Henley's like, I can do hits without the band.
He was right late, Glenn Fry, I can do hits

(05:59):
with out hey. He got a number one hit. But
they both admitted, let's get back together. The band was
really really good. We're better together than solo. These guys
don't even have a hit yet. They don't have one
song that's been top ten on the Billboard charts. Very exciting.
All right, let's talk about this. Pelicans beat the Sun's

(06:19):
hamstring issue for Devin Booker. I don't think he's out.
He struggled with hamstring. That's kind of been his thing
for the last couple of years. I think Phoenix wins
a series. But Brandon Ingram's a former Laker. I don't
know if you've noticed, but former Lakers had the pretty
good years. Let's see Brandon Ingram has knotted up the series.
He had thirty seven last night. Lakers certainly could have

(06:41):
used Kyle Kuzma's seventeen and a half point eight and
a half rebound average this year. Alex Caruso was averaging
thirteen a game. He's a plus defender, and Lonzo Ball
was quite something until he got hurt in Chicago. Not
surprising a story comes out today. The Laker's job, according
to the LA Time, is not that attractive to elite candidates.

(07:03):
Why would it be. In the last ten years, they've
had seven losing seasons, and that's with Kobe Lebron and
Anthony Davis. Name the last player the Lakers have developed
into a star. I'll give you a hint Kobe. That's it.
Because college basketball now gives NBA teams eighteen year olds

(07:25):
and nineteen year olds. You gotta be patient. Jordan Pool
for the Warriors nine points first year, twelve point second year,
eighteen and a half this year and next year, he's
probably twenty two points a game. They got themselves a star.
But the Warriors have a history of drafting and developing,
and Draymond was a second round pick, and Steph Curry
and Clay Thompson. Then they mix in really smart veterans

(07:48):
like a kd or In Andre Iguidala. They have a history.
Lakers don't. Lakers don't develop, that's not their thing. The
Lakers are the Yankees. We just go pay for players.
That's what's so magical about the Rams. They're gonna be city,
but yet they draft, developed and get stars. That's when
you become potentially a dynasty. Lakers coaching search not good.
Brandon Ingram averaged eighteen with the Lakers. After three years,

(08:11):
they bailed on him, goes to New Orleans immediately averages
twenty four, and according to my sources, he is loved there.
He knows everybody's name in the building, hugs around the building, wonderful.
Kay was a really nice kid here, but he came
into the NBA. He weighed about a buck fifty at
six to eleven. He was shy, kind of withdrawn. LA
is kind of overwhelming, and it took him a while

(08:32):
to get his feet under him. The minute he leaves
LA smaller market, he's crushed. He's a great talent. It
took him a while. You remember when he came out here,
it was skinny jeans. It was like that kid needs
He's just a kid. He's nineteen years old. He's flying through,
flying through calories. You couldn't put any weight on him.
So it's very interesting though. You start looking at great

(08:55):
organizations Kansas City Chiefs right now, LA Rams right now,
Dodgers Warriors, they not only have the ability to spot talent,
but develop talent. Lakers aren't doing either, like in that
develop thing. A lot of times you get to a
big market. By the way, the Yankees not a lot
of World Series titles lately, because the Dodgers, even though

(09:18):
they can afford the big talent, do a really good
job of drafting and developing their own. Yankees don't. And
the Rams, even though they can buy the great talent,
they draft and develop. That's what the Warriors do, That's
what the Chiefs do. Folks, it is always a benefit
to make more money in life. You can get better
health care and you travel better and better schools. But

(09:41):
you've got to be a good parent. Money's not going
to make you a better parent. We're right next to Hollywood,
a lot of rich people with crazy kids, with lots
of troubles. The reality with greatness in America and sports,
people fear the money in the big markets. Dan Snyder
is one of the richest owners. New York Giants are
a mess, sort of the New York Jets. Is that

(10:04):
the Lakers are becoming like the Yankees and the Chicago Bears.
They have this big brand and there's big money in
game day revenue and they can foote. But to be
the Chiefs and the Rams and the Dodgers and the Warriors,
you can't just bail on the draft and develop a
part of the game. And the Lakers the last guy
they developed was Kobe. They's bailed on all these guys.

(10:27):
They bail on brandon Ingram, they bail on Lonzo and
I understood bringing I understood bringing Lebron here, but just
because the Warriors brought in k d it didn't mean
they lost sort of their DNA on draft and develop.
Jordan Poole that minute he left was the next guy

(10:48):
they drafted and developed. And we're patient with so shocking
Brandon Ingram now is a baller. When you draft kids
at nineteen, think about this. In the NFL, you occasionally
get a great player like a Jamar Chase is just
wow wow, or Russell Wilson Wow out of Wisconsin. But

(11:08):
those guys went three or four years of college. I mean,
even Lebron, the greatest high school player ever, came into
the NBA. He wasn't a very good defender. He couldn't
really shoot a jumper. And that's Lebron like like Michael
Jordan went to three years of college. He came out
and he at that point wasn't a great teammate. He

(11:29):
had to develop with Phil Jackson into a great teammate,
not to just a great ISO scorer. So to draft
and develop, I don't care if you're in a big city.
I don't care if you're in New Yorker, LA. That
has to be part of the equation. It's not much
for the Yankees and that the world series titles. They're
going to the Houstons and the Atlantas and the Dodgers,

(11:51):
and in seven losing seasons in ten years and now
winning times out and now it makes you remember how
all the good times on top of the current mess.
All right, good stuff more Kyler Murray, drama and Arizona.
Cannot wait for tonight. I'm go home, take a big
nap today. I gotta get prepared. This is one of
those big sandwich man. I'm not even gonna open the

(12:14):
fridge and look at the amstills, not even gonna look
at him tonight. No obstacles, pure clarity tonight. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and noon
Easter nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one
and the iHeartRadio app Ah Here we Go our two

(12:35):
live in La. It's The Herd wherever you may be,
however you may be listening iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio FS
one for the breaking story with Joey Taylor. Jeff Darlington,
good NFL reporter for a long time. He just spoke
to Deebo Samuel of the Niners, and Deebo said, I
want the Niners to trade me the Niners have been
looking to make offers for a long term deal with Debo,

(12:56):
but he's unwilling to engage. You know, it's interesting about this.
So a lot of pro athletes don't grow up with money.
Some do because you know somebody in their family. Steph
Curry's dad was an NBA player, So Steph Curry grew
up with some money, obviously, and you see that. You know,
Clay Thompson's dad was Michael Thompson. Michael zowas you know,

(13:19):
did well though he grew up with money. It seems
to me Patrick mahomes father was a pro athlete, so
you know he probably had some money among the house.
Is that? And by the way, Steph Curry has not
always taken the most money. Patrick Mahomes hasn't always taken
the most money. Peyton mannings, you know, family grow up
with some money and so a lot of times I
feel like I don't like to ever tell somebody who

(13:42):
didn't grow money. I don't know Deebo Samuel's background, but
a lot of pro athletes, a lot of them, probably
ninety percent, didn't grow up a lot of money. So
who am I to tell somebody? I mean, my dad
was a small town doctor and my mom worked at
the school we had. They never thought about anything about money, right,
so maybe debos just like, hey man, this is my
opportunity in life, I want the most money. I'm not
gonna tell people like Wide received especially and the way
Deebo plays especially. I mean he plays physical football like this.

(14:04):
This is not a twelve year career. So let's start
with that premise. I don't know your background. What does
money mean to you? Is it important? Did you ever
have it? You know, I don't know those dynamics. And also,
I said this last week. If I'm a receiver, I'm
gonna mostly take the money like Tyreek Hill, Go take
the money. Okay, I get it. Quarterbacks and coaches legacies

(14:26):
are really connected to winning Super Bowls and championships. But
I do think we also have situations where a coach
can elevate you. I mean Sean Payton took Drew Breese
from a nobody to a Hall of famer. I mean
Drew Brees the Dolphins doctors can't play here. He's a
Hall of Famer. Now you may you know ten twenty

(14:46):
million a year being an announcer or whatever mahomes what
if he ends up with a defensive coach. Look at
Jared Goffe's career with Jeff Fisher than Sean McPhee. I mean,
look at that contract. He would be out of the
league and then he got a zillion dollar track. So
there are situations where a coach is a really good
fit for you. I mean Kyle Shannon's ability to turn

(15:08):
six round running backs into stars. There you go, like,
and we also know Belichick has a history of finding
these odd parts that don't work anywhere else and they
work on his defense. So you have to weigh all
this stuff. What does money mean to me? What's my
style of play? Like, here's where I Here's where Debo
Samuel I think understands this. Dude, I've been hurt, I

(15:31):
am physical. This offense leans into my physicality, not away
from it. I gotta get money. Kyler Murray, I've been
hurting back to back years. I'm small, I run around.
I'm not really a true pocket guy. I want my money.
Like I get that dynamic, but it has to be
considered along with this. I think Debos with a perfect
football coach and the Niners of offering him a deal.

(15:55):
The Niners are tying no, we get your value. Here's money.
Debo's like, now I want more. So this is not
the Niners not getting him or not committed to him.
They are now there's points again we joined. I talked
about this either today or yesterday. If you want to
be top of the market, like Aaron Rodgers, you have
to make sacrifices. You're gonna have to make like like

(16:15):
Russell Wilson and Seattle got expensive. Your offensive line's bad.
Aaron Rodgers top of the market, doesn't have a number
one receiver. Maholmes Team Friendly Deal. Well, they're just signing
people left and right. You know, so you Matt Stafford,
Team Friendly Deal Hill, they go out and get Bobby Wagner.
They were considering Honey Badger. So these are all decisions.

(16:39):
It's very complex. It's not just as easy as to say,
what are you doing. He's been beat up, he's miss games,
He's very physical. He's not a fifteen year career guy,
and they lean into his physicality. That offense leans into
his physicality, and he probably are sitting there thinking, and
I think Kyler Murray's doing the same thing. I'm not
a twenty year guy. I'm not a twenty year guy.

(17:01):
I want my money, and I think in Kyler's case,
you pay him. I think you pay Kyler. In Debo's case,
I said this, I'd lose sleep, but I don't know
if I could because George Kittle is also great, and
he gets banged up a lot. He's also a wildly
physical player. So my two offensive go to guys are

(17:22):
both physical and they get beat up a lot. The
ram star players don't. Cooper Cup's not hurt, Stafford's not hurt.
Donald's not hurt, Ramsey's not hurt, Bobby Wagner's not hurt.
Andrew Whitworth formerly never hurt. So they the division rival.
Their guys never get hurt. My guy, Garoppolo got hurt,
Kittle got hurt, and I gotta pay Debo a ton

(17:45):
and his style is not gonna wear a well over time.
So I think this is a very complex situation. I
don't think it's as easy as saying, pam Er, don't
pay him. I've talked to Bill Pouli in the Hall
of Fame front office guy a couple days ago, and
he said I'd pay him, and I draft a lot
of defense the draft, so I could get really cheap
on defense, he goes, this is the guy you loose leepover.
There's there's not a lot of duplication in the league

(18:07):
with Deebo Samuel. But in fairness, the Niners have offered
him a contract. They're not lowballing him here, but they
probably don't want to pay him top of the market now.
As Joy and I have said, had they moved off
Garoppolo two months ago, which I still think they should have,
that clears up some money from Debo, I think they
should move off Garoppolo. Listen, if you drafted the wrong

(18:28):
guy in trey Lands, that's a you problem. But you
got to find out you can't be taken snaps from
trey Lands. You can't. I mean you've moved all those
picks around to move up in the draft to get him.
You got a plan, So I would if it was
up to me, I would consider moving Debo, but I
would see if I could get Garoppolo off the books.
I would go, as Bill Polian told me, draft as

(18:51):
much defense as you can get, as cheap as you
can on defense. You may have to move another defensive lineman,
keep Bosa, move everybody else, but it's not a um
as the world turns in the NFL, Joey, we get
every uh. It's NonStop. I thought it was over in March.
It just continues and there's still there's still moves to
be made for the Baker. You know where he really

(19:14):
fits Free in Bay. Niners aren't going to trade him there,
but they can't afford him because of their quarterbacks. They're
gonna try and find somewhere in the AFC to send him.
Let me think about this. You know Raid work New England. Yes,
so New England can call and say we gave you
Garoppolo for nothing. He works in New England. They're not

(19:37):
paying their quarterback. They're not don't pay JC Jackson, didn't
pay Shack Mason. He works in New England. And by
the way, if I'm the Niners, they're not going to
beat Buffalo. They're not getting out of the AFC, so
I don't have to see d Bill Samuel again. I'll
trade him there because they're not getting past Buffalo. Kansas City,
That's where i'd call. I would probably want it. They
probably wouldn't send him here, but I could see them

(19:57):
being a player as Dallas. I'm not sending him to
the NFC I'm gonna send him to Belichick. Well yeah,
I mean they're gonna say, well, at this point when
things are Belichick, so they're gonna send him wherever. They're
not going to do what they're doing with Jimmy or
a player who has leaned into the team and you know,
try and find the best place for him. I would

(20:18):
imagine they're just going to send him wherever gives them
the best deal. Listen, the Kansas City Chiefs moved off
Tyreek Hill because they trust their GM and scouting department.
San Francisco, if they trust their scouts and their scouting department,
they're GM. You move Deebo Samuel to a team like
the Jets. By the way, the Jets are classic, they'll overpay,

(20:39):
they won't know how to use them as well. But
in the end, the Jets could be a good trading
partner because they have a coach who's on the hot seat.
Robert Sala had a disastrous for as year. Zach Wilson
needs as many weapons as he can possibly get to
compete now with Miami in that division and Buffalo. I mean,
if you're the Jets and I'm Robert Sala, I look
at what Miami did this offseat and what Buffalo's become.

(21:02):
And I'm not as good a coach as Belichick. Jets
are dead last right now in that division. They don't
have an elite coach, an elite quarterback, an elite roster.
Go get Deebo Samuel, give me your first pick. I mean,
if I, well, what are the Jets pick? Jets got
a top ten pick, I'll trade him, but I want
your pick. Okay, they got four and ten. Jets have

(21:22):
a four and ten. Jets don't want both those picks. Anyway,
give me your four, and that's a great deal. If
I'm the Jets and I'm the Niners. Jets don't want
both those picks. Most teams don't want two picks early
right because it's not a great draft. The Niners are like, okay,
we give up Debot, but this draft has good offensive

(21:42):
linemen and good receivers, and go get your receiver. Maybe
you take the ten, not the four, but I think
the Jets are the Jets are. When you have to
give it more than that, well, I'm saying you gotta
give it. I mean, they don't have any good players
i'd want, so i'd want give me two firsts. I
mean Tyreek got five, give me a first and a
second next year. But for Debos, mind takeaway is if

(22:04):
I get rid of Debo Samuel, is he worth a
first round pick in today's market? What Tyreek Gott and
Davante Adam. So I'll take a first and a second. Now,
you may not get this year's second, but maybe you
give me a first next Maybe you give me a first,
a fourth and next year's second. Well, I get more picks,
cause San Francisco without Debo's not the same team. But

(22:25):
they're still really good. Of course, they're very by the way,
they're very good. They're better than Green Bay today, they're
better than Dallas. They're better than Philadelphia. They're not as
good as the Rams. Well they're they're gonna havel. This
doesn't matter anymore. He wants out, and the Jets half
to him. The Jets the Bills are the best team
in their division, and Miami has made a massive pivot
to the right side of the ball. So Miami Cedric Wilson,

(22:49):
Tyreek Hill, Mike Gasecki, two new backs, an offensive coach.
Jets here are a dead They're a doormat. They gotta
make a moving Deebo Samuel and gives them a little
bit of everything. He can catch, you can run, he
can block, he's a back, he's a receiver. And you know,
maybe Debos from the East Coast wants to go back
out east. I get it, like I understand it. But
the Jets and the Patriots to me feel like Miami

(23:13):
going all in on offense. I mean, Cedric Wilson, Tyree Hill,
Mike Gasecki, Jalen Waddle. That's the game. The game is
moving to offense. The Dolphins are packed loaded at wide
receiver and tight end. What do you got, pop gun?
You got nothing there. So I don't even know if
my coach can coach and my quarterback struggled as a rookie.

(23:35):
I mean to it, today is more dependable than Zach
Wilson doesn't have the arm, but he's more dependable. So
if you're the Jets, you got to make calls on
this and just the Jets, this is a perfect trade partner.
I can get him to the AFC by the way,
I can send him to a team that I know
that it's not going to punish me later. And I'm
not worried about the Jets even getting out of their division.
Perfect place to send them, you know, And maybe I
say give me both your first round picks. Jets won't

(23:56):
Jets want one, but I would make the argument maybe
the ten is better. Maybe I can take the four.
By the way, how about this, I'm gonna take the
four from the Jets if I can trade it down
to get two picks, because we probably gave up one
too many picks to get Trey Lamps. There's your trade partner.
Here's fox Bet. All right, look at this, joy, who's

(24:19):
the best odds? You and I should run the world.
The Jets plus two fifty are the fox Bet second
favorite after the Niners. So that that's the place to
go to keep him. Yeah, the Jets are the leader
in the clubhouse to get him if he doesn't stay
with the nine Ers. And so Jeff Darlington reported Debo
wants out. So he said, Colts is interesting. Colts is

(24:42):
interesting again, offensive coach, you know again, Packers. I think
it's a great fit. But you know, the I mean,
the crux of the issue is money. We're right, I mean,
Aeron's making fifty million years. Zach Wilson makes you know nothing.
He's he's a second year quarterback. So you have to
imagine you're gonna go someone that has a young QUARTERBA,
someone where they're not paying the quarterback or they're extremely reasonable.

(25:03):
Here's another one that's interesting. What could they give you?
What about Carolina? I know it's the NFC, but what
are they gonna give me a pick? They have a pick,
I'd I'd rather to be clear. It's gonna be multiple picks.
It's not just gonna be one of the I think
the Jets is the players. The Jet listen the Jets.

(25:24):
Don't kid yourself. Makes the most sense. If Robert Sala
finishes in fourth again and it was ugly last year,
I mean there were there were games they didn't look prepared. No,
they need to be significantly better. In Miami's absolutely better,
Buffalo Josh Allen's better, and New England competent. Well, Mac
Jones second year, they'll be better. Yeah, can sit around

(25:44):
on your hands out there in New York. The rest
of your team's all stink except the Mets and the Nets.
Nets are winning tonight. Very excited. I told my wife there.
I told my wife yesterday, I say, let's throw a
party because we're almost finished with our house. She goes,
I need a month to plan it. I need like
four hours. I'm like, I'll buy some tequila, meet you
guys over the house and over some chicken wings. I
feel like a month for a party. They got us

(26:06):
set of that properly, all right. Be sure to catch
live editions of The Herd weekdayson newon Easter nine a Empacific. Hey,
what's up everybody. It's me three time pro bowler LeVar
Rington and I couldn't be more excited to announce a
new podcast called Up on Game. What is up on Game?
You asked, along with my fellow pro bowler t J.

(26:26):
Hushman's Outa and Super Bowl Champion. Yep, that's right, Plexico Burrs.
You can only name a show with that type of
talent on it. Up on Game We're going to be
sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen
to Up on Game with Me, LeVar Arrington, t J.
Hushman's Outa and Plexico Burst on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

(26:50):
or wherever you get your podcast from. Let's bring on
Jordan Palmer, quarterback consultant coach at a Lade eleven in
the NFL for six years. He's got his company, the
Quarterback Summit too, or six cities down, six to go.
You do this for a living. You deal with quarterbacks

(27:11):
and players for the record. Having played in the NFL,
let me just ask you on the Deebo Samuel situation.
They use him. It's a little Cooper Cup that but
with more running back Tyree Hill and Cooper Cup a
lot of jet sweep stuff. Yeah, Debo, we're gonna put
your running back. Do you think there is some truth
to my belief that he's like, man, this is a

(27:32):
physical You're asking me to do stuff no other receiver
in the league is asked to do, carry the ball,
take hits, and that part of it is either use
me differently or pay me for two positions. Yeah, I
think again, this is just a perspective here. I'm outside
looking in, but I think it's got to be a
combination of the two. Clearly with what the receiver market enjoy.

(27:52):
You talked about it in the last hour. Clearly what
the receiver markets doing. Okay, well, then this is what
the market dictates, this is what I want. But yeah,
the way that they use him, he's not necessarily complimenting
another piece, and George Kittle is as good as it
gets at the position. But Brandon and Iyuk, who's a
first round pick, he hasn't been what they what you
hope a first round receiver has been. And so they've
had to use him so many different ways. And yeah,

(28:14):
he can go somewhere else, but those are all If
he goes to the Jets, that's kind of the old
Niners staff over there. They're gonna they're gonna use you
the way that you're productive. And so I don't see
a whole lot changing for him outside of a new team.
You know it is um receivers have exploded. You deal
with quarterbacks a lot. You did you deal with Drake London.
So we've been saying this in the draft. It's a

(28:35):
good receiver draft. I don't know if it's very great.
So I'm gonna throw a couple of players at you
right now, a couple of young guys. Drake London USC
he doesn't have separation speed, So how do I use
him in the NFL? What is he in the NFL?
I think that he's as good of a young receiver
as you can get for a young quarterback, because if
you're if you're the Jets, if you're Mac Jones, if

(28:57):
you're any of these teams. Have a young quarterback, if
you have a receiver who has catch radius, I'll take
that over a guy who can go get you yards
after catch right yards after catch, can build you out
of situations because they can take a slant and they
can create it more than an eight yard game. But
when you have catch radius, which with Drake Lendon, I
mean he's six to five, it's the catch radius is
as good as I've been around, playing, watching coaching. So

(29:20):
when you have that, that type of player extends drives
for you. Young quarterbacks need to have drives extended. They
don't just need the home run shot. And so I
know a lot of quarterbacks feel this way. I'll take
catch radius and body control over forty times over somebody
who just runs a four three because you're gonna create
more value for me over time, because you're gonna extend
more drives, You're gonna get me more attempts, and ultimately
going to get me more big plays down the field.

(29:42):
QB Summit two or six cities down six to go.
A Jordan Palmer quarterback consultant. Let me ask you so
before we get to this draft, I want to ask
you about a quarterback because you deal with all these guys.
The kid USC got from Oklahoma, Caleb Williams. So he's
not a big guys like six six one. I really
trust your judgment on this. He moves around because I

(30:02):
watched him, like the rest of the country, I watched
him last year for the first time. He moves around.
He's kind of what the quarterback position in college is becoming,
and the NFL increasingly is leaning into what am I
going to see if I'm if I'm a college fan
with Caleb Williams. Well, so I met him probably sophomore
junior year in high school going through the Elite eleven process,

(30:24):
and he's just proven to be this. I just think
he's an adult. I mean, have you talked to him yet? No, Hey,
when you get a chance to sit down and talk
to him, and maybe not in this setting, when you
talked to him, you're gonna have that. You're gonna go
this kid's like twenty five years old, right, Even though
he's twenty or whatever, he is, he's just an adult.
So I think he's handled the bigness of being the
number one recruit and being you know, the Elite eleven

(30:45):
MVP and all the things, whatever his rankings were at
the time. He went into a situation with Spencer Rattler
where everything's about Spencer. Spencer you know, big in il money,
everything and everyone at Oklahoma. He's supposed to be a
high pick, he's supposed to win the Heisman, and he
came in and just sat on the bench and he waited,
and then when his i'm came in this game versus Texas,
I don't remember what he did, but it was historic.
And then he just rolled from there. And then I

(31:06):
think the way he handled this offseason essentially the most hot,
highly sought after free agent in college football, right and
the whole way, Like, what would you say was negative
about how he handled it? Oh, I think he's a
negative thing about it. He just basically hid and he
and Lincoln figured it out and it's just all been
positive and nothing's been about him. It hasn't been self centered.
So I think you're gonna see all sorts of plays

(31:29):
that he's gonna make down the field with his legs,
with his arm, But in general, they just have an
adult and at USC you talk about it all the
time being the quarterback of the Cowboys, being a Laker. Wow.
In this new era of USC football, being the USC quarterback,
I think is going to lump into that because it's
for young guys, right college players, and I think we're
gonna see him set the bar of of what it
looks like to handle this. Well. Okay, so this is

(31:50):
not what you would call as dynamic a quarterback draft
as we've seen the Kenny Pickett kid. You know, he's older,
he's like twenty three, he's a lot of college he
popped his last year, he had an injury earlier. There's
a ball security issue. He's fine. I mean, I look
at him and I think he's an NFL quarterback. But
what if I said to you, I don't know, he's

(32:11):
Daniel Jones with the Giants. I don't know. He moves well.
Size is fine, but Daniel Jones felt like a reach.
He turned the ball over a lot. Are there any similarities?
But my concerns on pick It is, you know, he
doesn't jump off the TV. He got good, you know,
when he's older than a lot of the players. Is
that fair? Yeah? I think there's just quarterbacks in any

(32:32):
draft where you have to look at it, you go,
can this guy elevate the droster that I have? Can
he take a bad situation and make it better? Or
if I put this player in a good situation, is
this guy gonna play really well? Okay, I still think
you put Daniel Jones in a really good situation, He's
going to play really well. He's had a hurt Saquon Barkley,
he's had wide receiver issues, he's had multiple coaches. I'm
not making excuses for him, but those are that's what's happened.

(32:55):
And so with Kenny Pickett, I think that's what teams
are gonna have to decide. Is this guy change my
current locker room in my situation, or if I put
this guy in a situation, how's it going to look?
And what he showed his senior year it was you
put him in a good situation. He had a good
wide out, he had a good defense, and he lit
it up and was a Heisman finalist. So I think
that's the team by team they've got to look what
is what are we asking this player to solve for

(33:16):
and what pick are we willing to use to have
him solve that problem. Malik Willis plays at a smaller
level of football. So did Carson Wentz. I could look
at it and say, you know, Carson Wentz, I you know,
you ask a lot. You did. But then I think
to myself, well, Carson Wentz was an MVP leader after
about ten weeks a few years ago. Malik Willis, what
do you see? How long would it take? I think
Malik has a really high ceiling. It's funny people ask

(33:38):
me to go, what's who's Malik's physical comp I go,
Devin White, who's a freak action figure looking linebacker for
Tampa Bay. So I just don't know who you compare
Malik two. I think teams are going to look at
this and they're gonna go, what part of what he
did at Liberty translates? And then what part needs to
be developed? Do we have the program to develop it

(34:00):
it comes to running, when it comes to throwing decision making,
I think that he showed what he is the low
key and I said this about Trey Lance last year,
the low key kind of thing that I My favorite
thing about Malik Willis is he's a magnet. He's one
of the more likable guys you'll be around. By the way.
That's tough matters. It matters. It doesn't show up on
the back of a football card or in Madden ratings,
but it's super relevant when adding a young, high pit

(34:23):
quarterback to a room. And he's about as likable as
it gets, and that's gonna be relevant. So let me
the Kyler Murray situation. I would pay him because you know,
there's nothing else out there in Arizona, and he transformed
the organization, So pay him. But I've got multiple people
I respect. Larry Fitzgerald's like the game a lot too soon.
There's some maturity issues. I know enough people in that organization.

(34:44):
I trust them like they see what they have. But
he also is smaller, and I grew up with fran Tarkington.
When you're under six feet quarterbacks tend to move passing
lanes open Russell Tarkant, I mean that's just kind of
I mean, I get it. You know these great time
and space. Yeah, and they're all six seven now up front.
But he's been hurt the last couple of years. He's

(35:06):
been bad post Thanksgiving. Let's get past the money thing.
Should I be concerned that a smaller athlete it's been
hurt multiple years? This league beat you up He's not
quite the same quarterback in Week sixteen is week eight,
and that maybe what he is is that this sport
is hard. You get hit. We know this. Like Drew

(35:26):
Breese one year as he got older, took five games off,
came back refreshed, Drew looked like a rookie. Yeah. Should
I be concerned a little bit size beating injuries, late
season erosion. Yeah, I think I think there's cause for
your concern. The thing about Kyler is I would say
this about maybe more so than any other quarterback, when
we sit here every draft, this time of year, every year,
and we talk about remember talking about Josh Allen, is

(35:48):
he gonna be a bust? As he not? And you
go through these guys and we're just not sure, right.
I don't think there's been a quarterback that's come through
this process that we know more about exactly how it's
gonna go. He was forty eight. No. In high school,
his dad was his coach was very predictable. He went
to A and M. He made a decision to leave
A and M. That was best for him. He decided
to go baseball, signed with the baseball agent, gets drafted,
step decides not to and then he is consistently since

(36:10):
high school, operated in his own best interest in every
phase of it. And I don't know that he would
disagree with that. Right, He's always operating his own best interests.
And so now some guys are getting paid at this
point in their career, he wants to get paid. No
one should be surprised that he's going to want to
get paid and that he's going to handle it in
a way that's going to be in his own best interest.

(36:31):
And I think that's what Larry and a lot of
folks allude to. So regardless of the injuries and what
it's gotten to, whether he's been playing at a higher
level than he's been playing at or a lower level
than he was playing at, we kind of knew it
was going to be. He's gonna want a new contract
and he's going to do whatever it takes to get it. Yeah. No,
I join, and I talked about this a month ago.
I said, he's a lockout guy. Like that was that

(36:54):
baseball guy? Yeah, like I was told Dak Brady, they'll
just play through it. Like No, he's a lockout guy
and that's his personality. So I think that's fair. So
Jordan Palmer joining us, So it doesn't take long. Brady
goes to Tampa in a pandemic Super Bowl. Matt comes
to the Rams boom first game against the Bears. Great,

(37:14):
here's Russell Nathaniel Hackett. So whereas McVeigh and Arians are
more established. You know Nathaniel Hackett from everything you read, sharp,
communicative verbal. How long do you think this take? Nathaniel
Hackett's offense Russell style. I'm gonna lean on you here.

(37:34):
Will it take a while? Is this an easy mailed
convergence of style and style? Yeah? I think this is
going to be one of the fastest transitions right away
to working that we've seen on any quarterback going a
new spot. There's a couple of reasons. One is the
is Russell's approach to the game. So I talk about
this a lot at Summit tour with kids with players

(37:55):
that I coach. I think the best, the true champions,
people who won at the highest levels. They get behind
their behaviors more than they get behind their talents. What
do you mean to say that? So they rely more
on their behaviors their routines there. So you're the best
in the business. I bet you're real consistent in how
you go about your business, when you study, when you prepare,
who you let into your life, who you don't fair Yeah, okay,

(38:17):
So I believe that's true of the best ones. I
believe that Tom Brady has been out behaving people for
twenty plus years. He's never at any point out talented anybody.
He didn't out talent Drew Henson at Michigan, he outbehaved him.
He's out behaved everybody. And Russell is one of these guys.
This is his house in Rancho Santa Fe, where he's
got his own field, and these dudes have been out
there and he's wearing a helmet, and other guys can go,

(38:39):
why is he wearing a helmet and chuckle. I don't know.
He's out there every single day. His behaviors and what
he did in Seattle. They remember where he used to
go to Hawaii all the time and do the passing camps.
He's got these guys behaving like he behaves, and they're
doing it in March, and they're doing it in February,
right whenever the deal went through. And so I think

(39:00):
one the way that he behaves and the way he's
going to bring these young guys in they've never experienced that.
To Nathaniel Hackett, he's a lot of things. He's really funny,
he's really creative, he's really smart, he's a great dude.
He's also really humble. He doesn't have a massive ego
where he thinks this is we're gonna do it my
way because I'm the head coach. That's gonna work really
well when you bring in a new franchise guy who's

(39:20):
got some opinions on how we can do this, and
it's trust fretted in Seattle because he didn't get those
opinions shared and he got a defensive head coach. So
now he's got a guy who's won with Blake Bortles,
he's one with Aaron Rodgers, and now he's going a
chance to win with Russell Wilson. And so I think
that's a perfect fit. And the last piece is Denver.
The last time they did this, it worked. They brought
in a Peyton Manning and it worked. So they've done this.

(39:42):
They've done this before, so I think this is going
to be a smooth transition. By the way, Jordan is
one of the smartest guys. That behavior line is one
of the smartest things I ever said on the show.
You or I gotta give you credit for this. Now
I have been marginalized. Unfortunately. I said Burrow was going
to be fine. I said, I see Tony Romo. You'd
have thought I called him a bust. I said he's

(40:03):
you know, people said Peyton Manning, I'm set list. If
you would have said physically Tony Romo, you would have
been on the problem is this, You're talking about a
true champion in Joe Burrow. So you called it very early,
you push back and you said it's and so you
are totally right. So how what what I mean? You
work with Mahomes and Alan and Darnel, all these guys.

(40:24):
How did you know what was it? Because physically An
the biggest arm. No, it runs, okay, that's where he's Romo.
He moves. Well. Yeah, So we've talked about before the
two most important traits in the quarterback for in my opinion,
and it's it's confidence, okay. And there's two types of confidence, right,
So there's the reactionary confidence where you're up and you're

(40:45):
down and you're up and down, and then there's self
generated confidence, which is independent of the environment, doesn't matter
what anybody says, doesn't matter what the situation is. He's
about as confident as I've ever been around. The second
one's maturity. Throw somebody in a brand new situation, how
do they handle it? Right, Well, you're in the Bengals.
You can't win there. Really, Well, I'm just going to
do these things and then we'll see how it checks out.

(41:05):
And he ends up in the super Bowl. So when
you talk about confidence and maturity, he's up there. I
don't like ranking guys that I've worked with, but in
those two categories, he's up there. And I just think
that it's the killer instinct. It's he's just not interested
in anything other than I mean not beating the other
I mean killing the other team. I think if this
guy's in the military, he's the guy that gets to

(41:26):
pull the trigger on the number one Seal team at
the biggest mission. Like, that's the guy that they give
that mission to. His personality. It's his personality, it's always
always been. And also on what I said about behaviors,
this is a young Brady in terms of his behaviors,
his nutrition, his routine, his approach to the game. All right,
quarterback summit to ur six cities down, six to go?

(41:47):
Where are you going? We've been to all over. We're
in Vegas next weekend for the Draft. We'll be out there,
and then I got Carolina, Chicago, Orange County, and we'll
be up in Tahoe in July at the American Century
Classic kind of go around. Where do I send people
to go QB Summit Tour dot com. So QB Summit
Tour dot com. You learn a lot here. We don't

(42:08):
just bring guests on and just just like educational class here.
It is great seeing you. Thanks for having me. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays and
noon Eastern a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio FS one
and the iHeartRadio app. Well. They were kind of the
shock of the league, the Memphis Grizzlies. They lost. They

(42:28):
were amazing. John Morant, their star guard, got hurt and
they went like nineteen and two, and I said, I said,
I don't think he's an MVP. I think he's exhilarating
and jaws John at me and it's it's fun. It's
what the NBA is. But then he they lost their
opening game against Minnesota, and my takeaway was settled down
they're gonna win the series. They're young, they're gonna win
the series. So last night they were great. And Brevin Knight,

(42:51):
who played in the NBA for twelve years, Stanford Guy
Grizzlies Analyst analyst, Brevin, we've known him for a long time.
So I think Jaws actackular, and I've compared him to
Derrick Rose. I worry at his size because you can't
stay in front of him. He's too fast. I worry that,
like small guards who can get past people, they finish

(43:12):
at the rim. They're gonna get banged around by Biggs
and so you got you gotta be careful about that stuff.
Sometimes you think it's such a great advantage with Jaw
that he can get past everybody, And everybody loved Derek Rose.
So when I make those Derek Rose comps, and I
am concerned about Derek Rose getting hurt and John Morant,
do you see some of that. I understand the comparison,

(43:36):
and I understand the worry and the worries because none
of you have guys of that size that are continuously
playing above the rim. Then you're worrying about landing. Whose
foot could you land on? Do you come down awkwardly,
the type of hits that you're going to take on
fouls that how many times you hit the floor. So
I understand the concern. The thing that I say for

(44:01):
John Morant is and the fact that I still think
that he is more of a point guard than Derek
Rose was, and that Derek Rose was a phenomenal basketball
player that can get guys involved, but he was extraordinary
at putting the ball in the basket. And where Jah
comes in is that he's able to temper, which one
he is as evident what we saw in last night's game.

(44:24):
And so the ability to score, as we talked before,
at multiple levels when you get to the basket, not
having to always finish at the rim, I think will
allow him to have a long career with the normal
injuries that come along with basketball. Listen up, Brevin, I
think you and you know this about me. When it
comes to quarterbacks and point guards, I really value just intelligence,

(44:47):
the ability self awareness. Here's what I do, Here's what
I can't. I gotta get people involved. So I don't
see jaw. You see him every game. You're the broadcaster.
Tell me about upstairs, Tell me about what you hear
and you see and what you like. And as a
Stanford guy, you've been around a lot of smart guys
in your whole life. Tell me that part of job,
because I think that will determine his career as much

(45:08):
as the athletic stuff. Decision making, judgment habits, that kind
of stuff. Well, I think that's the one area that
he doesn't get enough credit for. It is how mental
he is about the game. Yes, the thing that is
going to get the views and is going to continue
to get the hype or the highlight plays that he makes,
but his ability to have the high IQ is what

(45:30):
has allowed this team to be successful. Why would a
Grizzlies good when he didn't play is because you need
your star players to empower everyone else around him to
say that, yes, I may be the guy that gets
us over the hump, but I need everyone to be
good in their roles, and that's what the Grizzlies were
able to do. The other thing is he can read
the room. And what I say is that is his

(45:51):
rookie year. I thought every game he was trying to
create a highlight by getting to the rim. Now in
his third season, we are seeing him shoot shoot threes,
knocked down two threes in the last night games. Shoot
shots that are right below the free throw line and
get to the rim. That is what was allowed them
to be the number one score in the paint this year.

(46:12):
Is because he mentally understood I can hurt you at
different levels. But then he understood, now when I draw defenders,
I can make guys better. As why I say, in
last night's game, I thought it was one of his
best floor games of his entire career with the way
that he got guys involved, but the timing of his passes,
the nuances on defense. He took a charge in the

(46:33):
last night's game. He was in the right position. His
leadership came through last night. And we always talk about
the youth of this team, always call them young Vets
because when it's time for them to perform or step
up to the next level, they've been able to do it.
You know, it's interesting, I'm Kyrie Irving and KD tonight.
They're in year three of this experiment. It's not gone well.

(46:53):
They've had a first round exit, the second round exit.
They lose tonight, You're down two in the playoffs. It's
kind of over. Robert will him will come back to
the Celtics, they'll get better defensively. Kyrie is a different
you know, listen man, He's emotional, the vac stuff, you know,
the finger to the crowd. How would you, as a
former NBA point guard for twelve years, how do you

(47:14):
view Kyrie? Who's more emotional, who's more a pure scorer?
I don't consider him a great passer. How do you
view him? I don't view him as a traditional point guard,
and I think we call him a point guard because
of Besides, at the end of the day, he's one
of the greatest scores to ever play in the NBA,
and whatever position that puts him in, then you can
put him in that category. He's a facilitator by necessity,

(47:39):
which means if you stop me from scoring and the
next guys opened, then I'll make the play. And I
think everyone expects for him to be the high octane
score that he is. Is why when he was in Cleveland,
Lebron James was the point guard and he ran the
wing and he was so good at doing that. The
other stops where they have asked him to be more
of a traditional point guard and get guys involved and
run the team. Things having gone as well this is

(48:02):
the role that he is meant to be in the league,
which is a score. It's the only way that the
Brooklyn Nets have an opportunity to win. And so I
always say, there are different type players, and we give
the label of what you are. And so for him,
if you want to the scoring point guard, you don't
expect for him to be a guy that is going
to get people involved in the basketball game, but you

(48:24):
do respect for him to keep you involved, to keep
you in games by scoring. It's what he did in Boston.
And as far as his emotions, I kind of tell
people like this, if you got the money to pay
the fine, then go out there and play and do
what you feel. If though was right, listen, listen, I'm not.
I also am gonna say if I have to listen
to people say what, I probably understand what was said

(48:48):
to him on a regular basis in this game. For
him to only do it the amount of times that
he did it was to me was a bigger feat
than anything else. What is the one team when you
when you look around this league right now? Golden State's
fascinating because Jordan Poole has gotten really good, really fast,

(49:08):
and they do that small ball lineup and nobody else
has it. How do you guys in Memphis, because you
guys kind of feel like Golden State eight years ago,
You're like, huh, who are these guys? Got a lot
of good young guys. I don't know when you look
at the Warriors, do you guys in Memphis look at
them and think, guys, that's kind of the prototype. Smart

(49:32):
guys multiple scores defend. Do you kind of use them
as an example in Memphis? I think if you are
an intelligent basketball player, if you are an intelligent team,
how could you not look at the Golden State Wars
and say, is there some of the things that they're doing.

(49:52):
Can we, in any way, shape or form look like them?
And what I mean by that is it's the style
a play because people get caught up in the threes
that they shoot and made. But if you watch the
style and how solid of a basketball team that they are,
how do they get open for those shots all the time?
How are they always in transition opportunities guys are getting

(50:16):
good looks or they're getting layups at the front of
the rim. And the thing about it is it's all
orchestrated by the least offensive guy on their team, which
is Draymond Green. Everything that happens for the Warriors, whether
it's on the offensive or defensive end, revolves around the
one person who nobody's gonna come up and say, well,
he's the best player on that team, but he is

(50:37):
because they can't win without him. With him, they have
a chance to be a championship contending team. Without him,
I think they are just another very good team in
the league with really good offensive players, and so I
think if you look at them and say, individually exceptional,
but they all have the team concept. And I think
that's why the Grizzlies have been as good as they've

(50:59):
been to sea because individually, yes, we understand the talent
that we had, but as a collective, that is what
has been able to put them over the top and
win consistently. Finally, Woes just tweeted that Devin Booker's gonna
miss Game three and four hamstring strain mild, but he's
gonna miss games three or four minute left Devon can

(51:20):
they beat Can they win games without him? Oh? They
definitely gonna win games without They've done it all year.
The same way we talk about Golden State, the way
the Grizzlies are are as teams. That's the same way
the Phoenix Suns are in any team that has enough
talent and Chris Paul that is running it. I will
never go against them to say that they couldn't win

(51:40):
a basketball game. So it is going to be a fight.
Because the Pelicans smell blood in the water, They're gonna
have to play exceptionally good basketball to roll. Guys are
going to step up. But with CP three at the head,
I think they'll still be able to win games and
also win the series. His son, seventeen wants to go
to Stanford two. I told Brevin I applied there ever
heard back from him. They didn't pick up the phone.

(52:01):
It was very disappointing. Brevin's great great seeing you man.
You're a credit to the business. The league loves seeing you.
Thanks man, Well, thanks for having me. Have a good one,
all right, Brevin Knight who works with Pete Pranick and
they do it. It's a great broadcast. One more heard.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week. Within the iHeartRadio app, Search Herd to listen

(52:22):
live or on demand whenever you like.