June 14, 2025 • 39 mins
Where Colin was right and where he was wrong
Colin gives his AFC QB Rankings
NBA champion Paul Pierce joins the show to tell Colin why the Knicks made a mistake firing head coach Tom Thibodeau
Previewing game 4 of the NBA Finals
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to The Herd podcast. Here we go, it's hour two,
(00:24):
it is a Monday. We are live in Chicago. It's
the Herd. I am back, Jason off my bicycle from
Copenhagen few nights.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So good to have you back. Man.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's great to be back. Hey.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
By the way, you want to tell the audience, I
was texting you while you're in Europe.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
All lots of important stuff happening around you. There is Yes,
it's tomorrow mandatory mini camps in the NFL, so you've
got to keep your eye on. Cleveland is very fascinating,
That's all I'm gonna say. Everybody makes bets. You can
sit on the fin on this. My bet is Shador
is going to start at some point in the NFL season.
(01:04):
There are people all over the internet former NFL scouts.
He's going to be a bust. He can't play.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh, here's got to be a middle ground column like, yeah,
he may start, but Kevin.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Sefski doesn't love him. It's this thing he's going to
be a bust.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Like, come on, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's a bit much, all right, Matt Hasselbeck's around the
corner first though, on a Monday. I haven't been here
for a while. Colin right, Colin wrong? Where Colin was right? Well,
this Tyrese halliburtons the most overratted player is nonsense. First
of all, I think he has one of the highest
IQs and eqes I have seen from a modern point guard.
(01:39):
Thirteen or fifteen times this year under two minutes when
he could tire or take the lead, he hit the
shot that's insane, That is all time. That's better than
Steph Curry. So I never bought into this. I'm not
surprised they stole the game in Oklahoma City. I don't
think they're as good as Oka see. I don't think
they'll win the series. But this idea, this guy even
(01:59):
sniffed overrated. I'll make the argument he is the most
underrated player the last two years in the NBA and
tip of the captain J Mack who spotted it over
two years ago. Where Colin was wrong. I thought Aaron
Rodgers was too smart to sign with the Steelers because
I don't think it's a good fit. I think it's
a defensive first organization with an offensive coordinator he's not
(02:22):
familiar with. They lost their left tackle, they've struggled in
pass protect they've got no Nause Harris, and it's a
division with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson four times a
year minimum. So I listen. I thought he had better offers.
I thought he would land a better offer, and I
thought this was a this was a spot that won't
end well. But I'm wrong where Colin was right. Ross Tucker,
(02:46):
somebody whose opinion I trust is reporting the Vikings do
have concerns with JJ McCarty McCarthy quote. No matter what
they say about JJ, they wanted Sam Darnold back, and
they weren't going to get Darnold, so they wanted Daniel
Jones back. As much as their quote sold on JJ McCarthy,
(03:07):
they've got some doubts. So remember he missed valuable time
not only playing but practicing last year because of his surgeries.
And I've said it before. He reminds me of an
Alabama quarterback. His last two years at Michigan, he played
with a great run game. He didn't have to throw
much with poor protection. He had the best coach in
(03:28):
every game he played, and he had the lead for
ninety percent of it, and an unbelievable ground game in defense,
I just don't know if he's built to come from
behind throw forty three times in game, which you have
to invariably do, especially in the NFC norm where Colin
was raw. I'm surprised the Knicks fired Tom Thibodeaux. Yeah,
(03:50):
he's not the most creative guy offensively, but that's why
you build a staff. He built the culture. They defend.
They're tough, they're smart, they're physical. The issues the Nicks
had to me are personnel issues. Brunson's not a great defender,
so they can struggle having he and Kat on the
floor at the same time. That's not really a Tims issue.
(04:13):
I think the NBA is about steps and the process,
and they need to make another tweak. I'd move off
KD and bring in I'd move into KD and Offcat,
but I don't think firing him was the answer. Where
Colin was right. As much as I love the NBA,
I said this finals would be a ratings whiff, and
it has been a clunker. Listen, it's a series for
(04:36):
diehards only. The market size isn't great. Halliburton is not
really a known entity in America, even though he's a
fascinating player OKC style. Aesthetically, he's not appealing inn SGA Again,
he's great, he's productive, he's efficient, He's not necessarily dynamic
or fascinating. So the ratings are bad for this final,
even though it's a diehard final. You can't be a
(04:57):
basketball casual and be into this. But I do think
Indiana's going to win more games in this series than
it goes, at least six. Where Colin was wrong, I
thought Aunt Edwards of Minnesota was about ready to grab
the mantle as face of the league, but he really struggled.
Two things are true. You can really get him off
(05:18):
his game if you force him, trap him, double him,
and force him to make quick basketball decisions. He is
still fundamentally too young. He's not a refined player. He
had way too many turnovers, almost as many turnovers as
assists against ok SEE. He shot twenty eight percent from three,
and they just forced a really young, still developing star
(05:41):
to make fast, quick decisions in the half court and
he's not quite there yet. So I'm wrong where Colin
was right. I've been saying the NIL is going to
save college basketball, and Real Madrid and Barcelona reportedly are
considering shutting down their youth academy in Europe, and that's
(06:01):
where most of the good players are in Europe that
are seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old. Why because American college
basketball programs NIL money is greater than europe can affoord
And so you're seeing Auburn brought back their star guard.
Why they paid him more than he can make in
the NBA. Cooper Flag made eight million a year at Duke,
and now Illinois is going to have five European starters.
(06:25):
American basketball programs may shut down some of the great
academies in Europe because they're buying the best European players.
Not to mention, like the Auburn guard, many of the
good college players are staying in college for another year.
So college football didn't need saving college basketball, did I
(06:45):
predicted it? The NIL is going to deliver Where Colin
was raw, I thought the Dodgers roster was all time stuff,
But in their last twenty two games, they're under five hundred.
Their pitching staff inies, they're decimated for the third to
four straight year. Do they have to clean house on
(07:06):
the pitching coaching staff? Like? What is happening with the staff? Uh?
They're only one game ahead of the Padres and the
Giants over the twenty two game skid, fifth worst team
era Glass, Snow and Snell among fourteen Dodger pitchers still
on the ion l where Colin was right. Finally, Oh,
(07:29):
for years I have told been lectured by American soccer
fans the United States men's national team will flourish they
only get an elite coach. Well, they hired Mauricio Pope Jadino.
He is brilliant, and they've lost three straight and the
(07:49):
Gold Cups around the corner. Now, Turkey's pretty good. It's
okay to lose the Turkey two to one. But I
keep hearing my entire life from every young American soccer
fan it's the coach that's the problem. And I keep saying,
maybe we've overvalued our players, their grit, their focus, their toughness,
(08:13):
our academy system, maybe it's that and not always the coach.
So they bring in a brilliant coach who was lauded
for his success in Europe. We've lost three straight and
kind of, you know, kind of limping into the Gold Cup,
are we not? Colin right? Colin wrong?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
On a Monday, be sure to catch live editions of
the Herd weekdays and noonon eas theyre not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So you know, you know this that last year was
a great not this past draft. The one before was
a great draft. Most of those quarterbacks went to the NFC.
Jaden Daniels, Michael Pennix, JJ McCarthy, Caleb Williams, Bowe Nicks
went to the AFC. But the reason the AFC has
been better than the NFC, not necessarily just the Super Bowl,
(08:58):
but but overall is because the AFC for about a
seven year stretch kept hitting on quarterbacks. And you know,
C J. Stroud and Herbert and Burrow and Mahomes and Allen,
they just kept hitting and hitting and hitting on him.
So if the young NFC quarterbacks like Jayden Daniels and
Caleb and Pennix, if they can hit in that draft
a couple of years ago, it'll even things out. But
(09:20):
right now, the best quarterbacks in football are overwhelmingly in
the AFC. So now as Aaron Rodgers goes from the
Jets to the Steelers, he stays in the AFC again
with a defensive culture and a defensive head coach. I
let's just stay how good do we think he is
compared to the other now he's passed his prime. He's
(09:40):
forty one year old Aaron. With the other AFC quarterbacks, well,
I'll just start it with this, since twenty twenty two,
and that includes the last year in Green Bay, Aaron
is not Geno Smith. And I know you don't want
to hear that, but if you told me I had
a game to win, I'd take Geno. Gino right now moves,
he's more mobile, he's pretty close to his They'll probably
(10:01):
a bit out of the prime. He has a better
passer rating, completion percentage, much larger yards per game, and
he's winny more games. So and Gino's not in the
upper tier of the AFC quarterbacks in my opinion, do
I think he's a little undervalued. But if I went
today and you told me best quarterbacks in the AFC,
and I mean maybe my order is not perfect or
to your liking. Because I think Burrow last year honestly
(10:23):
was the best quarterback. I'd go Alan Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar,
that's the big four, nobody disputes. I'd go Herbert C. J. Stroud,
and I put Geno seven. And again, when Gino has
a run game in his career in Seattle, he was good.
His passer rating's over one hundred, so we can make
we can say now Geno's Sam Darnold. When he's rattled
(10:43):
or there's pressure, he can be reckless. But if you
give him time and you give him a decent run game,
Gino's Fmith's pretty good quarterback. He's a B plus plus.
And I would put the eighth best quarterback Bo Knicks,
who's going in the year two with Sean Payton, and
I think bow Knicks is so much more athletic than
anybody wants to give him credit for. His running is
a huge element of that offense. And then number nine,
(11:06):
I think you get Aaron Trevor Lawrence in Tua, where
it kind of just depends on the game. I don't
trust too in bad weather up North, Trevor Lawrence makes
too many mistakes and Aaron's he is a pocket quarterback,
so that's kind of what you're looking at. Can you
make the playoffs with the ninth best quarterback in the AFC? Absolutely,
especially if your defense is great. But that's kind of
(11:28):
where he's at right now. He's sort of in that
Tua Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers. I think that's fair. He's
forty one, he's a strictly a pocket quarterback. And Arthur Smith,
six years coach and coordinators, had one top ten offense.
Remember the Steelers lost their best running back, their left tackling,
their best receiver. No other team in the NFL had
that kind of losses in offensive production.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
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Speaker 5 (11:57):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
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never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything,
honestly because this guy is over promising things we never
have time for.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, you blubber Lisa and me.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Well you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
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continue on our after show called over Promised.
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Speaker 1 (13:00):
Paul Pierce nineteen years the Hall of Famer is now
joining us. Not every teammate, Paul is like that. Not
every teammates happy when you get yours in Boston. You
guys were stars. You're a star. Rondo wanted the ball,
you had, Ray Allen, you had.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
KG.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Halliburton generally appears joyful on winning more than everything in
your career. Is that common?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Wow? That's a great question.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
It depends on type of leader you got in the
locker room, It depends on what's driving them, and it
depends on like what's the goal?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
What are we trying to accomplish?
Speaker 7 (13:37):
You know, people talk about winning, but are they willing
to do the necessary things to help them win or
is it just more about them? And I don't see
that about Halliburn, it being about him. He just wants
to win. And the thing and I said this yesterday
on the Speak, I said, like.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
His play is uncommon today.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
His play is unorthodox, which is which is strange because
when you look at the common point guards of today,
he's a traditional point guard in my era today, he's unorthodox, right,
you know what I'm saying, Like he's a pastor first
point guard. And that's why people don't look at him
like a superstar. And that's why. But his effect on
(14:21):
the game is the same as a superstar. And that's
what I've been trying to tell people.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah was You know what's funny it is the playoffs,
especially these playoffs, you don't get the whistle. I mean,
they're gonna let you play. I thought a big part
of this last night was SGA didn't get to the
free throw line. This team is four and four in
the playoffs when he doesn't get eight or more free throws.
(14:48):
Some of this is James Harden was totally reliant on
the whistle. You weren't. Kobe wasn't. But that's not a
knock on SGA. But the record is clear. Yeah, because
home Grin's game is still a little uneven. You're never
quite sure what you get. Last night, lou Dort hit threes.
I think SGA is a little whistle dependent. Is that fair?
Speaker 7 (15:15):
You know it's fifty to fifty with him because some
nights he gets the whistle. I mean he's still good
for twenty five to thirty, you know, I mean, think
about it. He had had twenty four last night, didn't
get the whistle. I mean, he could still put the
ball in the bucket. But I think he's just getting
worn down. COmON, he's getting worn down. Did you see
at the end of the game, they're picking him up full.
(15:36):
They're playing the long game. They're like, all right, he
may get us in the beginning, but were gonna pick
a full court by time that fourth quarter come. He's
gonna be so worn down because he has to do
it on both ends of the court. He has to
defend because Indiana's making them defend too.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 7 (15:52):
You know they throwing picks on him, They fouling him
pretty hard, and they're picking up full.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That wears on you.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
I've been on other than gays, like you just picked
up full court or somebody just on your body at
all times. That wears you down throughout the course of
the game. And in the fourth quarter when you got
to do so much for your team, it's draining. It's
draining when you when you got those guys who don't
hit the shots. Now you got to get back on defense.
It's draining when they score and then you take the
ball out. I get it, and I'm the point guard,
(16:19):
and they picking me up baseline the baseline, and that's
what I'm seeing right there.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
They're getting tired. It's clear.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I want to shift to the New York Knicks. Rachel
Nichol was on an hour ago. Rachel Nichols. I my
take is, if you're going to fire anybody in any position,
you gotta have a plan. You gotta have somebody in
the waiting in the car, waiting in the sedan outside
ready to come in. It doesn't sound like the Knicks
(16:47):
had a plan. What was your kind of take on
the firing at Tibbs.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I thought it was kind of unjust based on you
know what Tibbs was able to accomplish this year. You know,
he got him to the conference finals, and I think
he maxed out the team because everybody saw the Knicks
for what they worked throughout the regular season and everybody
was like, Okay, yeah, they're a second.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Round exit team, right right.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
They made it to the conference finals one a lot
of games in the regular season, but I think their roster,
based on other other rosters I'm looking at in the
Eastern Conference, I think he maxed them out.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
They were deficient.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
They didn't have a bench, and even if Timms didn't
play him, when he did play them, I mean, how
productive were they Because when you look at the likes
of Indiana, when you look at Boston and teams of
that nature in the Eastern Conference. These guys had depth,
and that's something that the Knicks were front heavy. So
I think he maxed out the rosters. So I don't
think a coach coming in.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
The rosters. What the roster is the coach, it's not
the coach.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
You're gonna have to get more pieces for this team
to get over the hump. I don't care who you
bring in. You can bring in Red All back, bringing
Phil Jackson. This team maxed out.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You know, Paul, It's interesting. We forget they had Hartenstein
and Dante deven Gente last year, and Dante's a great
three point shooter. How many times in the next series
did we go, God, they need one more guy to
hit a three. They had him. He's off to Minnesota.
So they lost really valuable pieces and it showed up
against Indiana.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Man, I'm telling you, I tell people this.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
If they didn't make no traders stood Pat they were
injured last year.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, all they had to do was stan Pat.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
If they stand Pat, we're not We're probably talking about
the Knicks in the finals. Because you would have had depth,
you would have had more experience from a year ago.
Randall would have gave you pretty much what Kat gave
you on both ends of the court, but you would
have had to depth. You would have had guys off
the bach that you can depend on. So you know,
(18:52):
it is what it is moving forward. I don't know
where the Nats go from here as far as coaching,
but they're right there. Take nothing away from their right there.
They're a piece away. No matter what coach you bring in,
they're a piece away.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So this is one of the better domestic drafts. Last
year was a heavy international draft. We got Duke players,
Rutgers players. There's a lot of American kids in this draft.
Cooper Flags the overwhelming favorite. I have made the comp
that I think he's a more aggressive Jason Tatum. Maybe
(19:23):
not today, but that's how I see the comp.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
You don't like that comp, Caylin, if you don't get
out of here with that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Talk about Jason Tatum.
Speaker 7 (19:32):
So you're telling me that Cooper Flags offensive package is
equivalent to Jason Tatum, a guy who's average thirty in
the league twenty eight, twenty seven, you think Cooper can do?
I love Cooper and I love what he's done. You
know throughout his career. He's a young guy too. Hey,
I look at him more of like a andre Kerlinko.
(19:53):
You know, he can play both ends, maybe a little
more offense than Carolnko, but you gotta stay at I
think it was.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
An all star in this team, in this league.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Do I see him as a superstar? I don't know yet.
I'm not quite sure yet. You know, how is he
in the pick and roll? How is he initiating offense?
How is he you know, got to look at other
things when I look at primary scores and guys who
lead their team. How is this playmaking, you know, off
the dribble, when he's getting trapped, when he's in different situations.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Now, he's still young and he'll learn these things. But
I saw those.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
Things from Jason Tatum at Duke already playing a pick
and roll, playing on the ball, initiating offense off the ball,
on the ball. So will he be an impact player
in the league. I believe so because he does too
many things to not be an impact. Offensively, he can
knock down shots. Defensively, he's a tear. His engine is
a talent, and that's something that people don't talk about.
(20:51):
Having that type of motor is a talent in this league.
Because when I think about motor there's only a certain
few guys that have a motor that's head and showed
above everybody. You talk about Auntie Takoupo. When guys like Westbrook,
you know, that's just that extra umph and he has that.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
By the way, Cooper averaged nineteen a game at Duke
as a freshman. Tatum averaged seventeen, so they were very similar.
I do think even Tatum's dad has mentioned this. I
think Cooper's a more aggressive player, and that's just that's
almost DNA stuff. I can't explain it. They're just guys
that want the shot.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
I agree with that he's a more aggressive player as
far as attacking the basket because I don't think he's
a good a shooter as Tatum either, though that's fair,
you know, so you take one, give one like I
was more like Tatum's probably was. Well, I wouldn't say
a better shooter, but I like to attack the basket. Well,
I mean, you know, it's just like you said, it's
in the DNA, and it's also what the coaches are
(21:48):
allowing allowing these guys. You know, when I look at
the Celtish, I mean they're a three point heavy shooting team,
and I was thinking about it this morning. When I
watched the finals, Colin, I saw that the both teams
combined to shoot. I believe it was like twenty seven
threes and twenty to like forty nine threes combined.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And I've seen on multiple.
Speaker 7 (22:06):
Occasions, you know, the Celtics shoot fifty plus threes and
it's just.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Like wow, By the way, do you think the Celtics
go for Yannis make a big move move? Jalen Brown like,
what is your feeling on what Boston does you have
a sense of that culture.
Speaker 7 (22:22):
I'm not sure it'd be necessary to go for a
Janis as long as Jason Tatum is out and I
don't know the timetable on when he come back in
even if he does come back, he won't be the
Jason Tatum that we saw leaving the playoffs. You know,
it's gonna take some time to get back to that.
You know, if it were me, I kind of like
let the year play out and make decisions. I wouldn't
be too fast to make decisions. I'll see where the
(22:43):
team is and what direction we're going in, and if
there's something I can do at the trade deadline that's
gonna benefit them in the long run or even in
the now, I'll make that move, But like I wouldn't
just be like, well, Jason's heart, let's throw away the year.
I'm gonna sit back and see and be patient because
most of the times when you make these hasty decisions
(23:04):
and decisions that are too quick, you most likely make
the wrong decision on the team.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So I hope they just sit back and be patient
and see what they need.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So you have the most all time game winning buzzer
beaters made or assistant on regular and postseason. Indiana is
the most clutched team in the playoffs, nine and one
in clutch time. Oklahoma City, because they won by an
average of thirteen points in the regular season, is a
really young team that hasn't been in a lot of
close games. I thought down the stretch the last six
(23:35):
minutes last night, I thought Oklahoma City shot creation was bad.
I didn't think they got good looks. I thought Indiana
just got better looks. And I thought to myself, Indiana
lives in these kind of games. They're in these games
every night, and I feel like, oh, it's a little
bit of a negative with OKAC Paul. It's like a
football team that blows there. I always feel about the
(23:55):
Baltimore Ravens with Lamar. They blow so many people out
in the regular season. They're not used to a one
possesion game. And I think Okase looked a little off
late last night.
Speaker 7 (24:04):
Well, yeah, those teams are front runners, Collins and and
there's nothing wrong with that, because I've seen front running
teams win. Uh, it's just that they're not used to
being in that situation when you're blowing teams out at
a historic rate. Now, when the game is close and
tight and it's starting to set in, they panic. And
(24:25):
that's what that's what we call front runners. I mean,
look at the numbers. If you just look at the
numbers in the fourth quarter alone in this series, it's
it's drastic how Indiana is out playing in the fourth
quarter when the game is tight. Indiana got better. And
it just look at the GGC last night. They missed
free throws they don't normally miss. I see I saw Jalen.
(24:49):
I saw Jalen miss what three was it three or
four straight free throws? And then it was like, whoa,
it was obvious. If it wasn't obvious before, it was
last night. Just at the free throw line alone that
you were like, whoa, it got tight in there. And
to their credit, they're a young team. And I said this,
this is why I picked the Indiana Pacers. People don't understand,
(25:13):
Like when I watched them top the bottom coaching their
stars and you ask me, like, what who are their stars?
That's right, we don't know because it's a different star
every single night. And that's what makes them tough to play.
Like what am I doing if I'm okay, see and
I'm in the locker room saying, oh, we have to
prepare for Nie Smith and them hard. Oh but they
(25:33):
didn't show up yesterday. Oh but now Mather goes for
twenty six. It's so unpredictable. And that's why I picked
them those teams for me, Colin, when we you know,
it's the toughest games for me to play in. Say
like we playing a team and the star was out,
So now you're like, oh, it's easy to prepare for
what I know.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I know what he is. It's easy to prepare for that.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
But when now the unpredictable ability sets in, it's like
anybody can go off, and that's who Indiana is.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It's so unpredictable. It's tough to prepare for them.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, if sy Alcam had twenty nine points next game,
you wouldn't be surprised by that at all.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And if he had seven, you wouldn't be surprised. I mean, look,
t J McConnell took over the game in the second quarter.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Crazy right, right, They have so many unsuck heroes. I'll
tell you this story.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
We were at the end of the year in twenty
and ten and we're asked we were positioning ourselves for
the playoffs, and we were like, all right, should we
win these games or lose these games? Should we rest
and get ready? It was our seat and was on
the line, and we got into the meeting and me
Rondo ray keg he said, whould y'all rather play in
the second round? I think it was like Orlando and
Cleveland because Orlando it was like a two seed and
(26:44):
Cleveland was a one seed. We were like, let's play
the number one seed in the second round with Lebron.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's easier for us. It's easier for us.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
To prepare for him because we know it's all about him.
Now that Orlando team was a little more inpredictable. Yeah,
they got the white, but they got Turgulou, charloue Is,
Jamie and Nelson and they got all these other guys.
That's like a little I don't know who's gonna be
the next start on any given night. Lebron in Cleveland
was easier to prepare for, even though they were the
number one seed and won sixty six games.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Paul Pierce the Hall of Famer. He's on Speak after
Us Good Seniors, Olsma Man.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Always be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and neon eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh here we go, it is a Friday. It is
great to have you in. Jay Mack and I ready
to roll on a Friday. J Mac Tonight of course
Game four, pivotal game for the NBA Finals. I am
falling in love with this Indiana Pacer team. We'll have
Rick Buker on next start to talk some of that,
(27:51):
you know, J Mack, it is. It is the summer
of love in the NFL. Because we had the combine
and then we have the draft, and nobody has a
bad draft. Everybody gets an Arab right, nobody's got a
bad draft, and then we got OTAs. Oh who these
guys are amazing, and I want to talk about that.
It's the summer of love. I saw this story this morning.
(28:15):
Aaron Rodgers, Blairs the headline and Mike Tomlin form a
unique Super Bowl partnership. Oki Dokie, I saw another story.
Uh Bo Nicks is playing fast. Here's another one. One
of his teammates in Minnesota, says Jaye. J McCarthy, who
(28:35):
has never played an official NFL regular season game, reminds
him of another quarterback.
Speaker 8 (28:43):
He understands that we have to build a family here
and that you know, he can't have unique results without
unique relationships that we believe in. And then, man, he's
got some confidence and he reminds me of like Josh
Allen when I was with him in Buffalo, coming into
his own and understanding the power that he has to
lead this organization. And he's doing a fantastic job doing that.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
JJ McCarthy reminds him of Josh Allen. Okay, that's a
little hot for me. Here's what's really gonna happen this
regular season, and all of us know it is that
this league is now because of rule changes. A seventy
thirty quarterback coach league. As great as Andy Reid is,
(29:22):
he only started hoisting trophies when he got Patrick Mahomes.
Now it may be a sixty five thirty five league
quarterback coach, it may be a seventy five twenty five,
but it's about a seventy thirty swing. So if you
have a star quarterback and he has at least a
B coach, he's gonna make the playoffs. If you have
(29:44):
a really good quarterback with an A coach, he's probably
gonna make the playoffs. So these are not my playoff predictions,
but this is what I believe makes the playoffs generally,
either you're a star quarterback with a B coach or better,
or an A coach with a really really good quarterback
(30:06):
that is often young and getting better. The first group,
and my opinion, the five best quarterbacks in the NFL
are Patrick Mahomes, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and
Joe Burrow. I know you don't love Zach Taylor, but
he got to a Super Bowl. He's had a lot
of big wins for a young coach. I think he's bright.
I don't always love his clock management, but I didn't
(30:28):
like Andy Reid's before he had a great quarterback. I'm
going to go they'll make the playoffs. The next group
Jaden Daniels, Justin Herbert, c J. Stroud, Hertz and Golf.
I know, I know Nick Seriani don't love him, but
if you win a Super Bowl, I gotta make you
a be coach. The team buys into him. And then
(30:49):
the third group, and it's mostly a group where I
love the coach. Jordan Love and Matt Lafleur, bo Nix
and Sean Payton, brock Perty and Kyle Shanahan and Drake
Mayon Vrabel. This group, I generally like the quarter I
like the coach more than the quarterback, but the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Is good enough.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
These are not my playoff predictions, but mine are pretty
darn close to this. And my gett. Now I don't
have Donald or Baker or Gino and they're really close
or Caleb. Those guys were next in line. You know
who's not Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin because Aaron's not
close to his prime and Mike doesn't make quarterbacks better.
(31:31):
And as much as we talk about the revelation of
JJ McCarthy or or the special relationship in Pittsburgh. This
is an incredibly predictable league, and in the AFC with
the higher end quarterbacks, it's even easier. Last couple of years,
it's been a really easy conference to predict division winners. Again,
(31:51):
I had Donald close, and I actually have Donald in
the playoffs. Geno's close. I think he is Donald. I
got close love as coach. But by and large, all
this summer of love, we all kind of know what
it's going to look like by the first week of February.
All right, So maybe the biggest story of the week
(32:15):
has been the Knicks firing Tibbs. That was a couple
of weeks ago, but it's interesting yesterday. I'm here in
some of the next players like Jalen Brunston saying, hey,
this guy deserves love. Well, of course he does. But
when you fire somebody. My wife used to work in
HR and I remember when I first met her twenty
years ago, and she said something she had worked in
(32:39):
the hiring business. She said, overwhelmingly people fire themselves they
know it's coming. Well, I don't think Tibbs knew it
was coming, and I don't think he fired himself. And
here's why I keep hearing this. You know, the Knicks
weren't creative enough offensively the Knicks. The Knicks made some
moves and didn't get better. So last year, at this time,
(33:02):
one calendar year from today, they had Dante deven Tenjo.
They not only had him, he was their number one
three point shooter, they had Julius Randall, who was their
number two playmaker behind Brunson number two and scoring number
two and assists. They also had Isaiah Hartenstein, their starting center,
big time energy guy. So any team that loses their
(33:23):
best three point shooter in a three point shooting league,
their number two playmaker and a high energy starting center,
you would think, who boy, that's going to be rough.
The Knicks were actually better in the regular season, went
further in the playoffs, and were actually slightly better offensively
in net ratings seven to five. It's like the Knicks
(33:46):
fired their trainer because they only lost twelve pounds and
they wanted to lose fifteen. Yeah, maybe your diet's not
good enough. That's why the TIBs thing has always been
about personnel. I like McHale Bridges, but he's not consistent offensively.
I like kat He's bad defensively, certainly not as good
as Hartenstein. So my take on this whole thing is generally,
(34:11):
and I think my wife was right, people do fire themselves, right.
They're inconsistent, they're not reliable, they're toxic, they're just not
very good. But Kim's actually one more games regular season,
one more games in the playoffs, and was slightly better
offensively losing his number two playmaker, is best three point shooter,
(34:32):
and I would argue Hartenstein is a more complete center
than Robinson who's all defense, or Cat who's all offense.
And Paul Pierce talked about this yesterday, Well, you.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
Look at the likes of Indiana, when you look at
Boston and teams of that nature in the Eastern Conference,
these guys had depth, and that's something that the Knicks
were front heavy. So I think he maxed out the rosters.
So I don't think a coach coming in the roster
is what the roster is the coach. It's not the coach.
(35:03):
You're gonna have to get more pieces for this team
to get over the hump.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I don't care who you bring in.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
You can bring in Red all Back, you can bring
in Phil Jackson, this team, Max Stout.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
And what's interesting is of all the teams that Kevin
Durant is rumored to be going to, there's four that
are getting mentioned. The Knicks are one of those teams,
meaning even New York Nick fans, New York Knick media,
and NBA insiders believe they could really use another catch
(35:35):
and shoot guy. So you're acknowledging the personnel isn't quite right.
And beyond all of this is the fact that you
and I are watching the Indiana Pacers. They've got more
good players. Miles Turner is a better rim defender than
Robinson and a better center, better offensively. Pascal Sayakam to me,
(35:59):
I would rather have him on the floor than Kat
Halliburton to me, is a more complete guard than Jalen Brunson.
And they've got a couple of other players who shoot
threes more consistently, it feels like to me than Mikhale Bridges.
Indiana's got better players. You could say, well they got
a better coach. Well, he's been fired twice too. So
(36:21):
when I look at Indiana and I look at the Knicks,
and the Knicks gave I mean the Knicks gave the
Pacers more troubled than Cleveland did, more trouble than Milwaukee did,
and about the same level of trouble Oklahoma City is.
So if you start watching, I mean, remember that ball
that bounced high into the air and went in for
(36:42):
the Pacers. Some felt that was the difference in the
series for a while. So the tips thing is, it's
not just that the Knicks didn't have the next coach
in waiting. Is you're acknowledging it to personnel issue. That's
why you want KD. They got better in the regular season,
better in the playoffs, in a slightly better net rating.
(37:03):
I don't know. That feels like a job promotion, not
a pink slip. All right, j MC, We've got a
lot of things going on today. You know tonight's game.
What's the number? In fact, I think it's okase he's
a big favorite tonight, right.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Okay, see minus six Now it's dipped to five and
a half.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
In some spots.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Obviously, I'm shocked that the market didn't move yesterday when
I said I'm on the Pacers in Game four. But
you know whatever, I'm surprised you haven't picked.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
The game yet.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Now I don't feel I'm not going to bet against
Indiana here. We both loved Indiana in Game three. Just
think about what could happen to night in in American sports, everybody,
you know, the people that cover this league in the
locker rooms day and day out. If you would have
pulled the coaches and the GMS, nobody would have picked
Indiana to win the championship. They were not favored against
(37:51):
first round of Milwaukee. Now, I think we both loved
them over Milwaukee. We thought it was a great matchup
for them. I didn't like him over Cleveland. You did
in New York Indiana. I kind of liked Indiana, but
it was slight, and I liked Oklahoma City. Think about
all the knowledge in the NBA, the media, the coaches,
the GMS. If you'd have polled all of them, including
(38:11):
the players. Remember Halliburton was voted most overheted player, nobody
would have picked the Pacers to win the championship. And
if they win tonight, they won't be up three to one.
And I think that the numbers are something like eighty
eight percent ninety two percent winning if they win that game,
which by the way, they have been the much better
fourth quarter team. Oklahoma City is clearly younger and not
(38:34):
as good on the road. And Halliburton right now is
once again, like against Milwaukee, Cleveland and New York, controlling
the pace of the series.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Okay, see by the way to eight against the spread
on the road. Have not covered one road game in
the postseason, yet for some reason, everybody's obsessed with their
season long net rating. Everybody's got okay, see tonight, coll it,
I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Give me the Pacers once again. Teams are thirty eviden
one in the finals when leading three to one. If
Indiana wednesdaight, folks, what a revelation that nobody in the league,
no GM, I mean outside of Indiana's group, nobody would
have picked them, which I guess this is the NBA
Adam Silver wanted. I know the ratings aren't great. I
(39:17):
find it interesting
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noone Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to The Herd podcast. Here we go, it's hour two,
(00:24):
it is a Monday. We are live in Chicago. It's
the Herd. I am back, Jason off my bicycle from
Copenhagen few nights.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So good to have you back. Man.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's great to be back. Hey.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
By the way, you want to tell the audience, I
was texting you while you're in Europe.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
All lots of important stuff happening around you. There is Yes,
it's tomorrow mandatory mini camps in the NFL, so you've
got to keep your eye on. Cleveland is very fascinating,
That's all I'm gonna say. Everybody makes bets. You can
sit on the fin on this. My bet is Shador
is going to start at some point in the NFL season.
(01:04):
There are people all over the internet former NFL scouts.
He's going to be a bust. He can't play.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh, here's got to be a middle ground column like, yeah,
he may start, but Kevin.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Sefski doesn't love him. It's this thing he's going to
be a bust.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Like, come on, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's a bit much, all right, Matt Hasselbeck's around the
corner first though, on a Monday. I haven't been here
for a while. Colin right, Colin wrong? Where Colin was right? Well,
this Tyrese halliburtons the most overratted player is nonsense. First
of all, I think he has one of the highest
IQs and eqes I have seen from a modern point guard.
(01:39):
Thirteen or fifteen times this year under two minutes when
he could tire or take the lead, he hit the
shot that's insane, That is all time. That's better than
Steph Curry. So I never bought into this. I'm not
surprised they stole the game in Oklahoma City. I don't
think they're as good as Oka see. I don't think
they'll win the series. But this idea, this guy even
(01:59):
sniffed overrated. I'll make the argument he is the most
underrated player the last two years in the NBA and
tip of the captain J Mack who spotted it over
two years ago. Where Colin was wrong. I thought Aaron
Rodgers was too smart to sign with the Steelers because
I don't think it's a good fit. I think it's
a defensive first organization with an offensive coordinator he's not
(02:22):
familiar with. They lost their left tackle, they've struggled in
pass protect they've got no Nause Harris, and it's a
division with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson four times a
year minimum. So I listen. I thought he had better offers.
I thought he would land a better offer, and I
thought this was a this was a spot that won't
end well. But I'm wrong where Colin was right. Ross Tucker,
(02:46):
somebody whose opinion I trust is reporting the Vikings do
have concerns with JJ McCarty McCarthy quote. No matter what
they say about JJ, they wanted Sam Darnold back, and
they weren't going to get Darnold, so they wanted Daniel
Jones back. As much as their quote sold on JJ McCarthy,
(03:07):
they've got some doubts. So remember he missed valuable time
not only playing but practicing last year because of his surgeries.
And I've said it before. He reminds me of an
Alabama quarterback. His last two years at Michigan, he played
with a great run game. He didn't have to throw
much with poor protection. He had the best coach in
(03:28):
every game he played, and he had the lead for
ninety percent of it, and an unbelievable ground game in defense,
I just don't know if he's built to come from
behind throw forty three times in game, which you have
to invariably do, especially in the NFC norm where Colin
was raw. I'm surprised the Knicks fired Tom Thibodeaux. Yeah,
(03:50):
he's not the most creative guy offensively, but that's why
you build a staff. He built the culture. They defend.
They're tough, they're smart, they're physical. The issues the Nicks
had to me are personnel issues. Brunson's not a great defender,
so they can struggle having he and Kat on the
floor at the same time. That's not really a Tims issue.
(04:13):
I think the NBA is about steps and the process,
and they need to make another tweak. I'd move off
KD and bring in I'd move into KD and Offcat,
but I don't think firing him was the answer. Where
Colin was right. As much as I love the NBA,
I said this finals would be a ratings whiff, and
it has been a clunker. Listen, it's a series for
(04:36):
diehards only. The market size isn't great. Halliburton is not
really a known entity in America, even though he's a
fascinating player OKC style. Aesthetically, he's not appealing inn SGA Again,
he's great, he's productive, he's efficient, He's not necessarily dynamic
or fascinating. So the ratings are bad for this final,
even though it's a diehard final. You can't be a
(04:57):
basketball casual and be into this. But I do think
Indiana's going to win more games in this series than
it goes, at least six. Where Colin was wrong, I
thought Aunt Edwards of Minnesota was about ready to grab
the mantle as face of the league, but he really struggled.
Two things are true. You can really get him off
(05:18):
his game if you force him, trap him, double him,
and force him to make quick basketball decisions. He is
still fundamentally too young. He's not a refined player. He
had way too many turnovers, almost as many turnovers as
assists against ok SEE. He shot twenty eight percent from three,
and they just forced a really young, still developing star
(05:41):
to make fast, quick decisions in the half court and
he's not quite there yet. So I'm wrong where Colin
was right. I've been saying the NIL is going to
save college basketball, and Real Madrid and Barcelona reportedly are
considering shutting down their youth academy in Europe, and that's
(06:01):
where most of the good players are in Europe that
are seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years old. Why because American college
basketball programs NIL money is greater than europe can affoord
And so you're seeing Auburn brought back their star guard.
Why they paid him more than he can make in
the NBA. Cooper Flag made eight million a year at Duke,
and now Illinois is going to have five European starters.
(06:25):
American basketball programs may shut down some of the great
academies in Europe because they're buying the best European players.
Not to mention, like the Auburn guard, many of the
good college players are staying in college for another year.
So college football didn't need saving college basketball, did I
(06:45):
predicted it? The NIL is going to deliver Where Colin
was raw, I thought the Dodgers roster was all time stuff,
But in their last twenty two games, they're under five hundred.
Their pitching staff inies, they're decimated for the third to
four straight year. Do they have to clean house on
(07:06):
the pitching coaching staff? Like? What is happening with the staff? Uh?
They're only one game ahead of the Padres and the
Giants over the twenty two game skid, fifth worst team
era Glass, Snow and Snell among fourteen Dodger pitchers still
on the ion l where Colin was right. Finally, Oh,
(07:29):
for years I have told been lectured by American soccer
fans the United States men's national team will flourish they
only get an elite coach. Well, they hired Mauricio Pope Jadino.
He is brilliant, and they've lost three straight and the
(07:49):
Gold Cups around the corner. Now, Turkey's pretty good. It's
okay to lose the Turkey two to one. But I
keep hearing my entire life from every young American soccer
fan it's the coach that's the problem. And I keep saying,
maybe we've overvalued our players, their grit, their focus, their toughness,
(08:13):
our academy system, maybe it's that and not always the coach.
So they bring in a brilliant coach who was lauded
for his success in Europe. We've lost three straight and
kind of, you know, kind of limping into the Gold Cup,
are we not? Colin right? Colin wrong?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
On a Monday, be sure to catch live editions of
the Herd weekdays and noonon eas theyre not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So you know, you know this that last year was
a great not this past draft. The one before was
a great draft. Most of those quarterbacks went to the NFC.
Jaden Daniels, Michael Pennix, JJ McCarthy, Caleb Williams, Bowe Nicks
went to the AFC. But the reason the AFC has
been better than the NFC, not necessarily just the Super Bowl,
(08:58):
but but overall is because the AFC for about a
seven year stretch kept hitting on quarterbacks. And you know,
C J. Stroud and Herbert and Burrow and Mahomes and Allen,
they just kept hitting and hitting and hitting on him.
So if the young NFC quarterbacks like Jayden Daniels and
Caleb and Pennix, if they can hit in that draft
a couple of years ago, it'll even things out. But
(09:20):
right now, the best quarterbacks in football are overwhelmingly in
the AFC. So now as Aaron Rodgers goes from the
Jets to the Steelers, he stays in the AFC again
with a defensive culture and a defensive head coach. I
let's just stay how good do we think he is
compared to the other now he's passed his prime. He's
(09:40):
forty one year old Aaron. With the other AFC quarterbacks, well,
I'll just start it with this, since twenty twenty two,
and that includes the last year in Green Bay, Aaron
is not Geno Smith. And I know you don't want
to hear that, but if you told me I had
a game to win, I'd take Geno. Gino right now moves,
he's more mobile, he's pretty close to his They'll probably
(10:01):
a bit out of the prime. He has a better
passer rating, completion percentage, much larger yards per game, and
he's winny more games. So and Gino's not in the
upper tier of the AFC quarterbacks in my opinion, do
I think he's a little undervalued. But if I went
today and you told me best quarterbacks in the AFC,
and I mean maybe my order is not perfect or
to your liking. Because I think Burrow last year honestly
(10:23):
was the best quarterback. I'd go Alan Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar,
that's the big four, nobody disputes. I'd go Herbert C. J. Stroud,
and I put Geno seven. And again, when Gino has
a run game in his career in Seattle, he was good.
His passer rating's over one hundred, so we can make
we can say now Geno's Sam Darnold. When he's rattled
(10:43):
or there's pressure, he can be reckless. But if you
give him time and you give him a decent run game,
Gino's Fmith's pretty good quarterback. He's a B plus plus.
And I would put the eighth best quarterback Bo Knicks,
who's going in the year two with Sean Payton, and
I think bow Knicks is so much more athletic than
anybody wants to give him credit for. His running is
a huge element of that offense. And then number nine,
(11:06):
I think you get Aaron Trevor Lawrence in Tua, where
it kind of just depends on the game. I don't
trust too in bad weather up North, Trevor Lawrence makes
too many mistakes and Aaron's he is a pocket quarterback,
so that's kind of what you're looking at. Can you
make the playoffs with the ninth best quarterback in the AFC? Absolutely,
especially if your defense is great. But that's kind of
(11:28):
where he's at right now. He's sort of in that
Tua Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers. I think that's fair. He's
forty one, he's a strictly a pocket quarterback. And Arthur Smith,
six years coach and coordinators, had one top ten offense.
Remember the Steelers lost their best running back, their left tackling,
their best receiver. No other team in the NFL had
that kind of losses in offensive production.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
One more Heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
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Speaker 5 (11:57):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern. But here's the thing, we
never have enough time to get to everything we want
to get.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
To, and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything,
honestly because this guy is over promising things we never
have time for.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, you blubber Lisa and me.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Well you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
There you go, over promising, and remember you could see
on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised with
Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Paul Pierce nineteen years the Hall of Famer is now
joining us. Not every teammate, Paul is like that. Not
every teammates happy when you get yours in Boston. You
guys were stars. You're a star. Rondo wanted the ball,
you had, Ray Allen, you had.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
KG.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Halliburton generally appears joyful on winning more than everything in
your career. Is that common?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Wow? That's a great question.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
It depends on type of leader you got in the
locker room, It depends on what's driving them, and it
depends on like what's the goal?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
What are we trying to accomplish?
Speaker 7 (13:37):
You know, people talk about winning, but are they willing
to do the necessary things to help them win or
is it just more about them? And I don't see
that about Halliburn, it being about him. He just wants
to win. And the thing and I said this yesterday
on the Speak, I said, like.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
His play is uncommon today.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
His play is unorthodox, which is which is strange because
when you look at the common point guards of today,
he's a traditional point guard in my era today, he's unorthodox, right,
you know what I'm saying, Like he's a pastor first
point guard. And that's why people don't look at him
like a superstar. And that's why. But his effect on
(14:21):
the game is the same as a superstar. And that's
what I've been trying to tell people.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah was You know what's funny it is the playoffs,
especially these playoffs, you don't get the whistle. I mean,
they're gonna let you play. I thought a big part
of this last night was SGA didn't get to the
free throw line. This team is four and four in
the playoffs when he doesn't get eight or more free throws.
(14:48):
Some of this is James Harden was totally reliant on
the whistle. You weren't. Kobe wasn't. But that's not a
knock on SGA. But the record is clear. Yeah, because
home Grin's game is still a little uneven. You're never
quite sure what you get. Last night, lou Dort hit threes.
I think SGA is a little whistle dependent. Is that fair?
Speaker 7 (15:15):
You know it's fifty to fifty with him because some
nights he gets the whistle. I mean he's still good
for twenty five to thirty, you know, I mean, think
about it. He had had twenty four last night, didn't
get the whistle. I mean, he could still put the
ball in the bucket. But I think he's just getting
worn down. COmON, he's getting worn down. Did you see
at the end of the game, they're picking him up full.
(15:36):
They're playing the long game. They're like, all right, he
may get us in the beginning, but were gonna pick
a full court by time that fourth quarter come. He's
gonna be so worn down because he has to do
it on both ends of the court. He has to
defend because Indiana's making them defend too.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 7 (15:52):
You know they throwing picks on him, They fouling him
pretty hard, and they're picking up full.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That wears on you.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
I've been on other than gays, like you just picked
up full court or somebody just on your body at
all times. That wears you down throughout the course of
the game. And in the fourth quarter when you got
to do so much for your team, it's draining. It's
draining when you when you got those guys who don't
hit the shots. Now you got to get back on defense.
It's draining when they score and then you take the
ball out. I get it, and I'm the point guard,
(16:19):
and they picking me up baseline the baseline, and that's
what I'm seeing right there.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
They're getting tired. It's clear.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I want to shift to the New York Knicks. Rachel
Nichol was on an hour ago. Rachel Nichols. I my
take is, if you're going to fire anybody in any position,
you gotta have a plan. You gotta have somebody in
the waiting in the car, waiting in the sedan outside
ready to come in. It doesn't sound like the Knicks
(16:47):
had a plan. What was your kind of take on
the firing at Tibbs.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I thought it was kind of unjust based on you
know what Tibbs was able to accomplish this year. You know,
he got him to the conference finals, and I think
he maxed out the team because everybody saw the Knicks
for what they worked throughout the regular season and everybody
was like, Okay, yeah, they're a second.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Round exit team, right right.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
They made it to the conference finals one a lot
of games in the regular season, but I think their roster,
based on other other rosters I'm looking at in the
Eastern Conference, I think he maxed them out.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
They were deficient.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
They didn't have a bench, and even if Timms didn't
play him, when he did play them, I mean, how
productive were they Because when you look at the likes
of Indiana, when you look at Boston and teams of
that nature in the Eastern Conference. These guys had depth,
and that's something that the Knicks were front heavy. So
I think he maxed out the rosters. So I don't
think a coach coming in.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
The rosters. What the roster is the coach, it's not
the coach.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
You're gonna have to get more pieces for this team
to get over the hump. I don't care who you
bring in. You can bring in Red All back, bringing
Phil Jackson. This team maxed out.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You know, Paul, It's interesting. We forget they had Hartenstein
and Dante deven Gente last year, and Dante's a great
three point shooter. How many times in the next series
did we go, God, they need one more guy to
hit a three. They had him. He's off to Minnesota.
So they lost really valuable pieces and it showed up
against Indiana.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Man, I'm telling you, I tell people this.
Speaker 7 (18:24):
If they didn't make no traders stood Pat they were
injured last year.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, all they had to do was stan Pat.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
If they stand Pat, we're not We're probably talking about
the Knicks in the finals. Because you would have had depth,
you would have had more experience from a year ago.
Randall would have gave you pretty much what Kat gave
you on both ends of the court, but you would
have had to depth. You would have had guys off
the bach that you can depend on. So you know,
(18:52):
it is what it is moving forward. I don't know
where the Nats go from here as far as coaching,
but they're right there. Take nothing away from their right there.
They're a piece away. No matter what coach you bring in,
they're a piece away.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So this is one of the better domestic drafts. Last
year was a heavy international draft. We got Duke players,
Rutgers players. There's a lot of American kids in this draft.
Cooper Flags the overwhelming favorite. I have made the comp
that I think he's a more aggressive Jason Tatum. Maybe
(19:23):
not today, but that's how I see the comp.
Speaker 7 (19:25):
You don't like that comp, Caylin, if you don't get
out of here with that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Talk about Jason Tatum.
Speaker 7 (19:32):
So you're telling me that Cooper Flags offensive package is
equivalent to Jason Tatum, a guy who's average thirty in
the league twenty eight, twenty seven, you think Cooper can do?
I love Cooper and I love what he's done. You
know throughout his career. He's a young guy too. Hey,
I look at him more of like a andre Kerlinko.
(19:53):
You know, he can play both ends, maybe a little
more offense than Carolnko, but you gotta stay at I
think it was.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
An all star in this team, in this league.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Do I see him as a superstar? I don't know yet.
I'm not quite sure yet. You know, how is he
in the pick and roll? How is he initiating offense?
How is he you know, got to look at other
things when I look at primary scores and guys who
lead their team. How is this playmaking, you know, off
the dribble, when he's getting trapped, when he's in different situations.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Now, he's still young and he'll learn these things. But
I saw those.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
Things from Jason Tatum at Duke already playing a pick
and roll, playing on the ball, initiating offense off the ball,
on the ball. So will he be an impact player
in the league. I believe so because he does too
many things to not be an impact. Offensively, he can
knock down shots. Defensively, he's a tear. His engine is
a talent, and that's something that people don't talk about.
(20:51):
Having that type of motor is a talent in this league.
Because when I think about motor there's only a certain
few guys that have a motor that's head and showed
above everybody. You talk about Auntie Takoupo. When guys like Westbrook,
you know, that's just that extra umph and he has that.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
By the way, Cooper averaged nineteen a game at Duke
as a freshman. Tatum averaged seventeen, so they were very similar.
I do think even Tatum's dad has mentioned this. I
think Cooper's a more aggressive player, and that's just that's
almost DNA stuff. I can't explain it. They're just guys
that want the shot.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
I agree with that he's a more aggressive player as
far as attacking the basket because I don't think he's
a good a shooter as Tatum either, though that's fair,
you know, so you take one, give one like I
was more like Tatum's probably was. Well, I wouldn't say
a better shooter, but I like to attack the basket. Well,
I mean, you know, it's just like you said, it's
in the DNA, and it's also what the coaches are
(21:48):
allowing allowing these guys. You know, when I look at
the Celtish, I mean they're a three point heavy shooting team,
and I was thinking about it this morning. When I
watched the finals, Colin, I saw that the both teams
combined to shoot. I believe it was like twenty seven
threes and twenty to like forty nine threes combined.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And I've seen on multiple.
Speaker 7 (22:06):
Occasions, you know, the Celtics shoot fifty plus threes and
it's just.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Like wow, By the way, do you think the Celtics
go for Yannis make a big move move? Jalen Brown like,
what is your feeling on what Boston does you have
a sense of that culture.
Speaker 7 (22:22):
I'm not sure it'd be necessary to go for a
Janis as long as Jason Tatum is out and I
don't know the timetable on when he come back in
even if he does come back, he won't be the
Jason Tatum that we saw leaving the playoffs. You know,
it's gonna take some time to get back to that.
You know, if it were me, I kind of like
let the year play out and make decisions. I wouldn't
be too fast to make decisions. I'll see where the
(22:43):
team is and what direction we're going in, and if
there's something I can do at the trade deadline that's
gonna benefit them in the long run or even in
the now, I'll make that move, But like I wouldn't
just be like, well, Jason's heart, let's throw away the year.
I'm gonna sit back and see and be patient because
most of the times when you make these hasty decisions
(23:04):
and decisions that are too quick, you most likely make
the wrong decision on the team.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So I hope they just sit back and be patient
and see what they need.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So you have the most all time game winning buzzer
beaters made or assistant on regular and postseason. Indiana is
the most clutched team in the playoffs, nine and one
in clutch time. Oklahoma City, because they won by an
average of thirteen points in the regular season, is a
really young team that hasn't been in a lot of
close games. I thought down the stretch the last six
(23:35):
minutes last night, I thought Oklahoma City shot creation was bad.
I didn't think they got good looks. I thought Indiana
just got better looks. And I thought to myself, Indiana
lives in these kind of games. They're in these games
every night, and I feel like, oh, it's a little
bit of a negative with OKAC Paul. It's like a
football team that blows there. I always feel about the
(23:55):
Baltimore Ravens with Lamar. They blow so many people out
in the regular season. They're not used to a one
possesion game. And I think Okase looked a little off
late last night.
Speaker 7 (24:04):
Well, yeah, those teams are front runners, Collins and and
there's nothing wrong with that, because I've seen front running
teams win. Uh, it's just that they're not used to
being in that situation when you're blowing teams out at
a historic rate. Now, when the game is close and
tight and it's starting to set in, they panic. And
(24:25):
that's what that's what we call front runners. I mean,
look at the numbers. If you just look at the
numbers in the fourth quarter alone in this series, it's
it's drastic how Indiana is out playing in the fourth
quarter when the game is tight. Indiana got better. And
it just look at the GGC last night. They missed
free throws they don't normally miss. I see I saw Jalen.
(24:49):
I saw Jalen miss what three was it three or
four straight free throws? And then it was like, whoa,
it was obvious. If it wasn't obvious before, it was
last night. Just at the free throw line alone that
you were like, whoa, it got tight in there. And
to their credit, they're a young team. And I said this,
this is why I picked the Indiana Pacers. People don't understand,
(25:13):
Like when I watched them top the bottom coaching their
stars and you ask me, like, what who are their stars?
That's right, we don't know because it's a different star
every single night. And that's what makes them tough to play.
Like what am I doing if I'm okay, see and
I'm in the locker room saying, oh, we have to
prepare for Nie Smith and them hard. Oh but they
(25:33):
didn't show up yesterday. Oh but now Mather goes for
twenty six. It's so unpredictable. And that's why I picked
them those teams for me, Colin, when we you know,
it's the toughest games for me to play in. Say
like we playing a team and the star was out,
So now you're like, oh, it's easy to prepare for
what I know.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I know what he is. It's easy to prepare for that.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
But when now the unpredictable ability sets in, it's like
anybody can go off, and that's who Indiana is.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It's so unpredictable. It's tough to prepare for them.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, if sy Alcam had twenty nine points next game,
you wouldn't be surprised by that at all.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And if he had seven, you wouldn't be surprised. I mean, look,
t J McConnell took over the game in the second quarter.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Crazy right, right, They have so many unsuck heroes. I'll
tell you this story.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
We were at the end of the year in twenty
and ten and we're asked we were positioning ourselves for
the playoffs, and we were like, all right, should we
win these games or lose these games? Should we rest
and get ready? It was our seat and was on
the line, and we got into the meeting and me
Rondo ray keg he said, whould y'all rather play in
the second round? I think it was like Orlando and
Cleveland because Orlando it was like a two seed and
(26:44):
Cleveland was a one seed. We were like, let's play
the number one seed in the second round with Lebron.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's easier for us. It's easier for us.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
To prepare for him because we know it's all about him.
Now that Orlando team was a little more inpredictable. Yeah,
they got the white, but they got Turgulou, charloue Is,
Jamie and Nelson and they got all these other guys.
That's like a little I don't know who's gonna be
the next start on any given night. Lebron in Cleveland
was easier to prepare for, even though they were the
number one seed and won sixty six games.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Paul Pierce the Hall of Famer. He's on Speak after
Us Good Seniors, Olsma Man.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Always be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and neon eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh here we go, it is a Friday. It is
great to have you in. Jay Mack and I ready
to roll on a Friday. J Mac Tonight of course
Game four, pivotal game for the NBA Finals. I am
falling in love with this Indiana Pacer team. We'll have
Rick Buker on next start to talk some of that,
(27:51):
you know, J Mack, it is. It is the summer
of love in the NFL. Because we had the combine
and then we have the draft, and nobody has a
bad draft. Everybody gets an Arab right, nobody's got a
bad draft, and then we got OTAs. Oh who these
guys are amazing, and I want to talk about that.
It's the summer of love. I saw this story this morning.
(28:15):
Aaron Rodgers, Blairs the headline and Mike Tomlin form a
unique Super Bowl partnership. Oki Dokie, I saw another story.
Uh Bo Nicks is playing fast. Here's another one. One
of his teammates in Minnesota, says Jaye. J McCarthy, who
(28:35):
has never played an official NFL regular season game, reminds
him of another quarterback.
Speaker 8 (28:43):
He understands that we have to build a family here
and that you know, he can't have unique results without
unique relationships that we believe in. And then, man, he's
got some confidence and he reminds me of like Josh
Allen when I was with him in Buffalo, coming into
his own and understanding the power that he has to
lead this organization. And he's doing a fantastic job doing that.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
JJ McCarthy reminds him of Josh Allen. Okay, that's a
little hot for me. Here's what's really gonna happen this
regular season, and all of us know it is that
this league is now because of rule changes. A seventy
thirty quarterback coach league. As great as Andy Reid is,
(29:22):
he only started hoisting trophies when he got Patrick Mahomes.
Now it may be a sixty five thirty five league
quarterback coach, it may be a seventy five twenty five,
but it's about a seventy thirty swing. So if you
have a star quarterback and he has at least a
B coach, he's gonna make the playoffs. If you have
(29:44):
a really good quarterback with an A coach, he's probably
gonna make the playoffs. So these are not my playoff predictions,
but this is what I believe makes the playoffs generally,
either you're a star quarterback with a B coach or better,
or an A coach with a really really good quarterback
(30:06):
that is often young and getting better. The first group,
and my opinion, the five best quarterbacks in the NFL
are Patrick Mahomes, Matt Stafford, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and
Joe Burrow. I know you don't love Zach Taylor, but
he got to a Super Bowl. He's had a lot
of big wins for a young coach. I think he's bright.
I don't always love his clock management, but I didn't
(30:28):
like Andy Reid's before he had a great quarterback. I'm
going to go they'll make the playoffs. The next group
Jaden Daniels, Justin Herbert, c J. Stroud, Hertz and Golf.
I know, I know Nick Seriani don't love him, but
if you win a Super Bowl, I gotta make you
a be coach. The team buys into him. And then
(30:49):
the third group, and it's mostly a group where I
love the coach. Jordan Love and Matt Lafleur, bo Nix
and Sean Payton, brock Perty and Kyle Shanahan and Drake
Mayon Vrabel. This group, I generally like the quarter I
like the coach more than the quarterback, but the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Is good enough.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
These are not my playoff predictions, but mine are pretty
darn close to this. And my gett. Now I don't
have Donald or Baker or Gino and they're really close
or Caleb. Those guys were next in line. You know
who's not Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin because Aaron's not
close to his prime and Mike doesn't make quarterbacks better.
(31:31):
And as much as we talk about the revelation of
JJ McCarthy or or the special relationship in Pittsburgh. This
is an incredibly predictable league, and in the AFC with
the higher end quarterbacks, it's even easier. Last couple of years,
it's been a really easy conference to predict division winners. Again,
(31:51):
I had Donald close, and I actually have Donald in
the playoffs. Geno's close. I think he is Donald. I
got close love as coach. But by and large, all
this summer of love, we all kind of know what
it's going to look like by the first week of February.
All right, So maybe the biggest story of the week
(32:15):
has been the Knicks firing Tibbs. That was a couple
of weeks ago, but it's interesting yesterday. I'm here in
some of the next players like Jalen Brunston saying, hey,
this guy deserves love. Well, of course he does. But
when you fire somebody. My wife used to work in
HR and I remember when I first met her twenty
years ago, and she said something she had worked in
(32:39):
the hiring business. She said, overwhelmingly people fire themselves they
know it's coming. Well, I don't think Tibbs knew it
was coming, and I don't think he fired himself. And
here's why I keep hearing this. You know, the Knicks
weren't creative enough offensively the Knicks. The Knicks made some
moves and didn't get better. So last year, at this time,
(33:02):
one calendar year from today, they had Dante deven Tenjo.
They not only had him, he was their number one
three point shooter, they had Julius Randall, who was their
number two playmaker behind Brunson number two and scoring number
two and assists. They also had Isaiah Hartenstein, their starting center,
big time energy guy. So any team that loses their
(33:23):
best three point shooter in a three point shooting league,
their number two playmaker and a high energy starting center,
you would think, who boy, that's going to be rough.
The Knicks were actually better in the regular season, went
further in the playoffs, and were actually slightly better offensively
in net ratings seven to five. It's like the Knicks
(33:46):
fired their trainer because they only lost twelve pounds and
they wanted to lose fifteen. Yeah, maybe your diet's not
good enough. That's why the TIBs thing has always been
about personnel. I like McHale Bridges, but he's not consistent offensively.
I like kat He's bad defensively, certainly not as good
as Hartenstein. So my take on this whole thing is generally,
(34:11):
and I think my wife was right, people do fire themselves, right.
They're inconsistent, they're not reliable, they're toxic, they're just not
very good. But Kim's actually one more games regular season,
one more games in the playoffs, and was slightly better
offensively losing his number two playmaker, is best three point shooter,
(34:32):
and I would argue Hartenstein is a more complete center
than Robinson who's all defense, or Cat who's all offense.
And Paul Pierce talked about this yesterday, Well, you.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
Look at the likes of Indiana, when you look at
Boston and teams of that nature in the Eastern Conference,
these guys had depth, and that's something that the Knicks
were front heavy. So I think he maxed out the rosters.
So I don't think a coach coming in the roster
is what the roster is the coach. It's not the coach.
(35:03):
You're gonna have to get more pieces for this team
to get over the hump.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I don't care who you bring in.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
You can bring in Red all Back, you can bring
in Phil Jackson, this team, Max Stout.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
And what's interesting is of all the teams that Kevin
Durant is rumored to be going to, there's four that
are getting mentioned. The Knicks are one of those teams,
meaning even New York Nick fans, New York Knick media,
and NBA insiders believe they could really use another catch
(35:35):
and shoot guy. So you're acknowledging the personnel isn't quite right.
And beyond all of this is the fact that you
and I are watching the Indiana Pacers. They've got more
good players. Miles Turner is a better rim defender than
Robinson and a better center, better offensively. Pascal Sayakam to me,
(35:59):
I would rather have him on the floor than Kat
Halliburton to me, is a more complete guard than Jalen Brunson.
And they've got a couple of other players who shoot
threes more consistently, it feels like to me than Mikhale Bridges.
Indiana's got better players. You could say, well they got
a better coach. Well, he's been fired twice too. So
(36:21):
when I look at Indiana and I look at the Knicks,
and the Knicks gave I mean the Knicks gave the
Pacers more troubled than Cleveland did, more trouble than Milwaukee did,
and about the same level of trouble Oklahoma City is.
So if you start watching, I mean, remember that ball
that bounced high into the air and went in for
(36:42):
the Pacers. Some felt that was the difference in the
series for a while. So the tips thing is, it's
not just that the Knicks didn't have the next coach
in waiting. Is you're acknowledging it to personnel issue. That's
why you want KD. They got better in the regular season,
better in the playoffs, in a slightly better net rating.
(37:03):
I don't know. That feels like a job promotion, not
a pink slip. All right, j MC, We've got a
lot of things going on today. You know tonight's game.
What's the number? In fact, I think it's okase he's
a big favorite tonight, right.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Okay, see minus six Now it's dipped to five and
a half.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
In some spots.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Obviously, I'm shocked that the market didn't move yesterday when
I said I'm on the Pacers in Game four. But
you know whatever, I'm surprised you haven't picked.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
The game yet.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Now I don't feel I'm not going to bet against
Indiana here. We both loved Indiana in Game three. Just
think about what could happen to night in in American sports, everybody,
you know, the people that cover this league in the
locker rooms day and day out. If you would have
pulled the coaches and the GMS, nobody would have picked
Indiana to win the championship. They were not favored against
(37:51):
first round of Milwaukee. Now, I think we both loved
them over Milwaukee. We thought it was a great matchup
for them. I didn't like him over Cleveland. You did
in New York Indiana. I kind of liked Indiana, but
it was slight, and I liked Oklahoma City. Think about
all the knowledge in the NBA, the media, the coaches,
the GMS. If you'd have polled all of them, including
(38:11):
the players. Remember Halliburton was voted most overheted player, nobody
would have picked the Pacers to win the championship. And
if they win tonight, they won't be up three to one.
And I think that the numbers are something like eighty
eight percent ninety two percent winning if they win that game,
which by the way, they have been the much better
fourth quarter team. Oklahoma City is clearly younger and not
(38:34):
as good on the road. And Halliburton right now is
once again, like against Milwaukee, Cleveland and New York, controlling
the pace of the series.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Okay, see by the way to eight against the spread
on the road. Have not covered one road game in
the postseason, yet for some reason, everybody's obsessed with their
season long net rating. Everybody's got okay, see tonight, coll it,
I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Give me the Pacers once again. Teams are thirty eviden
one in the finals when leading three to one. If
Indiana wednesdaight, folks, what a revelation that nobody in the league,
no GM, I mean outside of Indiana's group, nobody would
have picked them, which I guess this is the NBA
Adam Silver wanted. I know the ratings aren't great. I
(39:17):
find it interesting
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.