Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down all the action from the NBA playoffs!
They start with the Nuggets evening the series 2-2 with the Timberwolves, why the schedule benefitted Denver (3:00), and why the series might come down to the battle between Karl-Anthony Towns vs Aaron Gordon (6:00). They try to project the trajectory for Anthony Edwards and compare his spectacular play and less than spectacular playoff results to early Michael Jordan. (11:00)
They debate whether Kevin Durant could be the missing piece for the Wolves or Kicks (15:30), whether the Celtics are just “very good” or truly elite (24:00), and whether Jayson Tatum is truly a #1 or the best #2 in the league (30:00).
They discuss whether the Lakers should take the risk of hiring J.J. Reddick as a first time head coach (37:00), and why they’d need a full buy-in from LeBron for it to work (42:45). They also both lean into the idea that LeBron would be best served stepping back into the #2 role (49:00).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, Jason timp is about to stop by for
our weekly NBA playoff hit before we go to Jason, Hey,
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I use it. You should too, all right. It is
(01:09):
customary Sunday night. You hear it mostly on Monday morning.
Jason Timph podcast as Hoops Tonight. You know it's interesting.
Schedules can matter. NFL will release their schedule on Wednesday,
and I think it's a big deal. We all know
who everybody plays already, but it's the order. For instance,
playing in Denver high altitude in September when you're coming
(01:30):
out of camp. His oha has been tough. Playing Andy
Reid in September tough. Some of the defensive coaches experiment
more offensively early. Belichick never had a great September so
and also back to back to back tough games, road games.
You know, Miami would prefer to never go into Buffalo
with two as a quarterback in December and January. They'd
love to get that game out. And you know September
(01:52):
October when the weather's great, so there are absolute you know,
Dome teams. They don't want to play December January games
up north. When the league had a gap between games
two and three, Denver Minnesota, and it hurts Minnesota's momentum,
and it gives Denver time to prepare. You get that
extra film session or three. It's a totally different team.
(02:15):
I mean, there was they were Denver was so bad defensively,
so lethargic. Now it's almost like Denver saying, let ant
get his he's gonna get forty. We're not gonna stop him,
and let's shut down the other dudes. But I mean,
it does feel like to me that that time, an
extra day or two here for a really smart veteran
team and a good staff feels so substantial.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, Minnesota came out with pretty bad energy in Game three,
and himself admitted it after the game, He's like, I
came out with low energy. The meanwhile, for three consecutive days,
Denver had to sit around and listen to everyone talk
shit about them, Like literally, it was like they just
got humiliated for three consecutive days. And you know, I
said after Game two, it wasn't really a about basketball
(03:01):
to me. I thought that Minnesota brought a level of
physicality that Denver had not seen really at all in
the previous five rounds that they had played in the postseason.
And I thought they got a little caught off guard
by it, and specifically in Game two, they crumbled mentally
in a way that they never had before. Right, And honestly,
(03:22):
do you remember in Game three at the beginning that
play when Anthony Edwards was messing with his shoulder for
like thirty seconds. That was the first play of the game.
And on that play, Nikola Jokic just rocked him with
the screen, just like a super super hard screen. And
when I went back and looked over the film in
that game, like really all that happened was Denver did
all the same things that they have done all season.
(03:44):
They just did him harder, faster, with more force. They
finally met the physical confrontation. And when they did, you
found out pretty quickly they can still score on these guys.
It's like, it's not like Jamal hasn't seen a lengthy
perimeter defender before. Of course he has. It's not like
Jokic hasn't seen two centers on the floor before. Of
course he has. They've all seen that before. They just
didn't handle it well. And then the big one here,
(04:05):
And this is something that I called out before the series,
and I really was surprised that it took this long.
But Minnesota is a mediocre offense.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
No listen, Anthony, because Anthony, that's what I think Denver
looked at and said, just give Anne this forty. They
have a lot of very good athletes and length. But
if Karl Anthony Towns like tonight is just kind of
just wandering. There's not really a second scoring option on
(04:33):
this team. There really isn't. So you need Towns, who's
always been to me talented but a little flaky, a
little inconsistent, you know what I mean. Like Anthony Davis
gives you the same defense every game, Karl, Anthony Towns,
who was more gifted offensively, should be as good offensively
as Anthony Davis as defensively. He's not get you just
get he's lost. And I thought, in this game, what
(04:55):
are we doing here? And when he doesn't deliver, it
doesn't matter what ants An could score fifty. I mean,
Jordan was scoring sixty three and they couldn't beat the Celtics. Like,
so I do think Denver just said, listen, we're not
going to stop this kid and make everybody else work.
And I think your point is right is that if
Towns is off, it's an athletic team. They're long, they
(05:18):
almost have an extra wing defender and one less shooter
than they need.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
No, absolutely, and like it really comes down to this.
They were a mediocre offense all season long, and then
they've got a bunch of these streaky guys, guys like Cat,
guys like Nikaile Alexander Walker, guys like nas Reed who
like are capable of playing at a higher level offensively,
but Phoenix couldn't really play them out of that. Denver's
lackadaisical defensive effort in the first two games couldn't play
(05:44):
that play them out of that. But as soon as
Denver tightened the screws, Hat fell apart, Mikail, Alexander Walker
fell apart, nas Reed fell apart, like in immediately, Rudy
Gobert looks like a damaging offensive player because he's got
stone hands and he can't like make quick decisions when
he catches on the roll, and so like, literally, Minnesota
looked like regular season Minnesota. If anything, it's it's it's
(06:05):
really impressive that ant is demonstrating his leap is for real,
and specifically on the Karl Anthony Towns front. You know this,
Carl Carltown's reminds me of a specific type of player
I've seen several times in NBA history. The most recent
example kind of reminds me of Kevin Love. And obviously
Kat has a better pedigree, but like it's like the
big scoring like kind of hybrid big, but one that's
(06:29):
not actually that superior of an athlete compared to his peers, right,
and the and that can shoot. And so what happens
is during the eighty two game regular season, they get
their twenty five points a night because they can bully
smaller players and they can hit threes. But every every
single time, Kevin Love would run into a really big
athletic forward, someone like a Thaddeus Young or a Draymond Green,
(06:50):
and just render Kevin Love into a spot up shooter.
And then and then everyone be like, oh, Lebron, make
Kevin Love a spot up shooter. It's like, actually, that's
all he can do when you reach these super high
levels of intensity. Aaron Gordon demolished Carl Towns tonight, which
is just completely just snatched his so much better. He's
a much better athlete, exactly. It's like the un it's
(07:11):
like the guy who's a little bit shorter but stronger,
more athletic, kind of like Draymond or that he's young,
like I was talking about Kevin Love. They can beat
Carl Towns to spots and so make it so that
he can't drive. And then if he can't drive, he's
suddenly just a shooter, and it's like with the shots
start going in, then his impact craters, and so yeah,
like there's another conversation to be had. I mean, you
(07:32):
you even when Minnesota was playing, well, we're pointing out, like,
is Karl Anthony town still going to be here in
the future, And it's like there's a there's a there's
a real conversation to be had about the team build
of Minnesota in the sense that Carl Anthony Towns is
what he is. He's never going to become a super
reliable secondary shot creator. You can't let it go out
there by himself every night. Is the only guy who
can get to his spots and create shots. So I
(07:54):
don't know what they do about that in the long run,
but tonight was at the last two games. This is
not game one two of a series where you're feeling
each other out. Everyone knows exactly what everyone's good and
bad at right now, and nobody on Minnesota can score
except for Aunt, and that's a major problem.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Well and also, I mean, Yokichen Aunt are transcended, so
to some degree, you know, going into a game, you're
giving up thirty plus you know Bird, you know, Jordan Kobe,
some guys are just like you've been in the gym,
Like that guy's gonna get his The series really comes
down to, like it's amazing Gordon versus Karl Anthony Towns.
(08:31):
You're like, oh, that's that's kind of what the series
has come down to, because you can't new you can
only do so much to neutralize a superstar in this sport,
and then all of a sudden and again this is
what champions do. We forget this. I remember a couple
of years ago the Celtics played the Warriors in the
finals and through the first couple of games of the series,
(08:52):
through three games, Boston was so much better than Golden State,
and you're like, Steve Kerr gets an extra day, there's
preparation that go to Boston and you're like, who unplugged
the electricity with a stomachs? Like what happened? And I
think the mistake I make thinking Denver's cooked is you
give these championship teams time. They're well coached. I mean,
(09:13):
Malone's been there. I mean, if you forget, I mean
he was like seven years in and they were just
they just let it bake. I mean, there was no pressure.
They couldn't win with Yokich for years. So this is
a team that's you know, they've been through a lot
of these battles. They've lost a lot of them in
the early years, but they've had to make major adjustments.
And you know, I rushed to judgment. I look at
(09:34):
Denver now and I'm like, oh, this this is what
I thought the series would look like, which is again,
they would match their length and physicality and Jokis would
just you know, Murray and Yokic are both elite scorers.
So I will say this. I don't know why the
media does this. They get so protective from people that
don't need it. But Ant is spectacular, Like I always
(09:58):
felt this about And I'm not saying he's Jordan, but
he has some Jordan qualities. And that's okay. Mahomes you
know they're talking about Kayleb Williams has Mahomes qualities. Yes
he does. All the scouts are saying, hey, he plays
like Patrick Mahomes. There are things about Aunt, but the
most Jordan thing about him is I remember watching Jordan
against Phoenix in his prime and I was sitting on
(10:20):
the couch with a friend watching it and I'm like, Okay,
he's not the best shooter, the best ball hand, He's
not the quickest guy in the league and he's six six.
Why does it look like he's like the only Division
IE player playing at the y Like it's like it.
He makes it look so easy and gets past people
on the first step. These are NBA athletes. He just
(10:43):
gets past everybody. So when you watch it on TV,
I don't think you would appreciate it, the ability to, Oh,
everybody knows where he's going. He loves the first step,
He sizes you up. He makes the game look easy.
Mahomes does this, Jordan did this? Like what? Why? How
I'm watching ant and even against good offenders. I mean
(11:05):
Jamal Murray switched off to him one time. I'm like,
this is not even competitive. Murray's a world class athlete.
I mean, you've been in gyms with guys. But I
look at this and I'm like, when guys start making
thirty eight points look easy, there's about three in the
league at any one time that can do that. Maybe one.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, there's athletic and then there's athletic. Among the athletes.
It's like an entirely different stratosphere, right, And like that's
kind of to me the difference between like a Jason
Tatum and an Anthony Edwards. Like Jason Tatum is a
very good NBA athlete, like but like like, like he's
in the he's close to that, like truly transcendent. But
there's clearly a difference between ant sizing up an elite
(11:47):
defender and beating him off the dribble and Tatum doing
the same thing. It's like that next level of elite,
top tier athleticism. Honestly, I regardless of what happens the
rest of this series, and I do think Denver is
gonna be gonna pull this out now. I think they've
effectively just rendered Minnesota's offense useless and they're gonna go home,
and I think they're gonna win Game five. And the
(12:07):
biggest thing too, is like Minnesota hasn't been particularly competitive
in either of these games, which is which is a
major concern, right, But like, no matter what, it's very
clear that Anthony Edwards is here to stay. I think
he's the next guy in that like line of truly
transcendent great American basketball players, Like it went from MJ
to Kobe, and it went from Kobe to Lebron and
(12:27):
like there have been guys along the way that have
had their little moments, but nobody that really had the
potential to take over the league for a long time.
And can't you just see it, Colin, can't you just
kind of imagine what the next ten years are like
for Ams? You could just kind of imagine him continuing
to ascend and getting better and better. I started to
think tonight, like like if it could have pulled this
(12:47):
game out, it could have been one of those transcendent
moments you think about, like, you know, Lebron is in
like two thousand and seven or two thousand and eight
kind of thing, and honestly, like Denver's just too good.
That's really all it is. Like Lebron ran into the
OA Spurs and got swept. So like, at a certain point,
it doesn't matter how how good you are at that
phase of your career. It is a team sport. And
and like literally while all of his veteran teammates were
(13:09):
falling apart, he was continuing to ascend. It was really impressive.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, I mean, and this is appropriate, Jordan couldn't get
through a fully formed Pistons or Celtic dynasty, So I mean,
Denver's fully formed, they have the experience, they're better offensively,
they have Minnesota's length. So again, this is the way
it works. It's the baby steps. He comes in, he
pushes and makes a Denver you know, step back. They
got hit in the gin. Oh we got you know,
(13:35):
they dazed the champion and they lost. That's what happened
to Jordan. That's what happens to Lebron. So to me,
this is totally appropriate. We are amazed by the individual player,
but they still have tweaking to do. I mean, we
all know what Minnesota's gonna do in the off season.
Are probably gonna move Karl Anthony Towns and they're gonna
get They're gonna get more offensive players. I mean, eventually
(13:56):
Jordan needed Pippin and Kerr, you know. I mean, like,
you know, don't have to be a nightly great player,
but you do have to find players that take something
off Ant's plate a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
There has to be like Minnesota should go after KD.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's not terrible because again the great gift of KD.
You can give him the ball eight seconds in the
shot clock four, He'll get a great look. He doesn't need,
you know, it's a little Klay Thompson, but obviously much better.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. That's why,
that's why the Jalen bruns and Katie works. The emotional
part of kde to the Knicks TIBs that style. You know,
(14:33):
is he willing for it. Let's let's pivot to that,
because listen, the Knicks are beat up. Nothing you can do.
Just set the guys down, get ready for Tuesday. Be embarrassed.
You know you'll be on fire Tuesday. So Og is hurt.
Og got banged up this year as well. Brunson's not
one hundred percent. We already know Mitchell Robbins and Julius
Randall are out. So this is a limited team offensively
(14:55):
without injuries. So we all kind of kept waiting for
this team that was playing Game seven intensity to just
just collapse. Just the wheels came off, and they sort
of did. I still think they have a chance to
win this series. But I was saying this earlier this week,
and I said it last time I was on with you.
There's a lot of different scenarios with the Knicks, and
it's very easy to talk yourself into we're just a
(15:17):
piece away, but the East is gonna get better. It's
just gonna get better. Butler's gonna be healthy, Dame's gonna
be healthy, Yannis will probably be back, and Beat'll get help.
There's so many scenarios for the Knicks, and I do
wonder if instead of looking at Kevin Durant and a
Paul George, they just they find another og on the market,
you know, they go get another really good player, because
(15:39):
I do think, you know, playing hard, maybe it has
limitations if you fade. I don't think they can beat
a Denver a Minnesota's length. But the Knicks have done
something in the last three years that they haven't done
for twenty, which is they're patient. They're like you look
at them and you're like, this well run team. They
(16:01):
don't take I mean they used to take, you know,
big reaches on Amari Stodameyer when he had bad knees.
It's like, what are you doing? Like every GM in
the league's like that. Amari's you know, he's he's got
like two years left, he's cooked.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
We're training for Carmelo when they could have sign him
as a free agent one year later, not got the roster.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I don't know exactly what they do. I think Paul
George fits everywhere. But again, it's such a unique culture,
like it's just not for everybody. I mean, I can't
wait to watch. I don't They're not a championship team.
I think you know listen, they're not. We know it.
They're just you can't. There's too many great players, too
many good teams in this league. Kicks are not a
championship team. I don't know what the solution is. I
(16:41):
want to watch it. It's not in the draft. We
know that it's not a good draft. I mean Kd's
it's it's I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
KD is.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Boy. You look at him post Golden State, It's it's
he's different. He's run of the two coaches, you know,
and Tims has power in that room. Nobody's pushing back
on TIBs.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I think for sure they need somebody that can play.
That's bigger. I mean, the biggest problem they're running into
now is their best five guys are four guards in
Isaiah Hartenstein because of the Ognnobe injury. So like they're
literally running out there with Runson Heart, Devincenzo and Deuce
McBride with Isaiah Hartenstein and trying to make plays happen,
and like there have been moments where they've been playing
(17:24):
Alec Burks at the four, Like they're really really undersized
right now, and so I do get encouraged by the
idea just if you could somehow get KD with that Ognnob,
which I think would be really difficult. I like the
idea of having Og at the three with KD and
Hartenstein because you're just really big on the front line,
and then you could still have a Devincenzo or Heart
(17:46):
at the two, so you maintain some of that physicality.
It's just if you had to give up Og, that's
such a significant chunk of that identity. I mean, just
look at this Pacers series since Og and Andobi has
gone down. They's just just physically look different. They just
look different right now. Like Indiana has to feel really
good going into Game five, like they're gonna win this
series because they really controlled things outside of outside of
(18:09):
a few clutch stretches in games one and two. And
that's the other thing too. New York actually has a
negative point differential to this point in the postseason, which
is actually kind of crazy, but it's because they've been
in every close game and just pulled it out late,
and so you have to get some bounces that go
your way. Like even when you look back, it's like
how they beat the Sixers in game in game six,
it was it was a Josh Hart three from the
(18:31):
top of the key at like that broke a tie
in the final minute, you know what I mean? Like
it it's big shots at the end of games like it.
Really the teams that can win the championship, they don't
need to do that every single night. So I do
think they need some more firepower, but it's just gonna
be really difficult to toe that line between adding firepower
while sacrificing the physical identity, which is such an important
(18:53):
part of how they win.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
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last week, and and I lose track sometimes because I'm
(20:02):
doing three hours a day and I'm doing this with you,
and I'm doing other stuff. But I want to talk
Celtics for a second. I said, the NBA. I grew
up in the seventies. It's pretty well chronicled. I can
tell you the starting lineups for the Washington team that won,
the Portland team, the Sonic team, the Sixer team. Like
that was really in my wheelhouse. I was collecting basketball cards.
I was like a you know, like like you are now.
(20:25):
I literally just could not get a night. It was
the only thing I cared about, you know, when I
was a young kid, and so and then you get dynasties.
You get the Laker dynasty and the Celtic dynasty, and
the Piston dynaty, and the Bulls and the Shaq and
Kobe and the Spurs and so all these dynasties come up,
and I do think it's the first time we don't
have another dynasty. I think we have really good teams now.
(20:45):
Again Denver wins it, then you've moved into the Heatles
conversation where you're darn close. Now it's not a dynasty,
but you can. It does have a spurs feel to it.
Like with Jokic, he doesn't need the attention. He's the
kind of guy that would take a pay cut, like,
let's just keep doing this, running it back. I don't
need the drama. They have a very spurs feel to them.
You know. The Star is like a good guy, kind
(21:06):
of Brady esque, like, let's just keep our roster. But
I was looking at Boston and I'm like, in this
era of good, maybe Boston's just two things very good.
Because they're five hundred at home over the last three
years historically makes no sense. That is just not the
way it works. Great teams are so think about this,
(21:29):
they're five hundred at home in the playoffs. I've only
been one finals that's against the East. The East has
been abysmal for about four years. So they're five hundred
at home in the playoffs against a weak, much weaker conference.
It's hard to argue they're elite or special. What they
are is very good. I said, I think they don't
(21:49):
have a Shack a Kobe and mj in their prime,
not even an ant Is it possible? They have two
Scottie Pippins and you're like, they're good enough to win
a title, but they need some breaks because I keep
watching them and just if they're not hitting threes, they
get bad fast, like you're like, wow, this is They're
just and they're almost unserious, like they're just the energy
(22:11):
is terrible. Is it possible we've overvalued them because it's
a big brand. We like Tatum, it's a you know,
you have two players, they do point differential regular season,
they're outstanding. You can't be five hundred at home over
three years against the East and tell me you're elite.
That it would be different, Jason if they had a title.
(22:33):
And then you kind of pull the governor down like
we've seen this of the Shack Kobe teams, it's like
they're great, or Kad and the Warriors. Then you pull
it down, like, let's just get through the regular season.
What is Boston elite or in my contention, they're very
good in an era of.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Good, they're very good. I mean, coming into the season,
you and I were on the same page on this,
like they're kind of on the same level as Denver,
And then when we did our playoff review, we were like,
they're kind of on the same level Denver. Yet they
had like I can't remember exactly what the Nuggets finished with,
but they were a mid fifties team and the Celtics
were a mid sixties team in terms of wins, right, So,
like they've won sixty something games this year, but they're
(23:11):
not like a traditional sixty win powerhouse because the Eastern
Conference is so weak. And again, it's really this simple.
You play fifty two games every single season against your
own conference, right, you play thirty against the other conference.
So like, and all you have to do is go
look at the go look at the ESPN standings, and
go look at the record for Boston against the Western Conference.
(23:33):
They were just another team against the Western Conference. I
think if Boston was in the West, they'd be near
the top, but they would not have separated themselves the
way that they did against the way that they did
against the rest of the East. Now, one of the
things with Boston, like Boston has nowhere near the defensive
personnel that Minnesota does so like and that's the scary
(23:54):
thing with what Denver's doing right now is you could
not build a better team to guard the Denver Nuts
than what they have, and Denver has sliced and diced
them two games in a row. Now, so like Denver's
gonna score on Boston. But what Boston has that Minnesota
doesn't is they have a ton of offensive skill. All
five of their guys in the starting line that can shoot,
(24:15):
everyone can dribble, and so they do have the ability
to kind of space Denver out and have some success there.
I think Boston presents some challenges for Denver, but I
would pick Denver to beat them. And so to put
it simply, they're just another team in the top tier,
whereas if you looked at the standings, you would view
them as having separated. And really it does come down
to Tatum for me, Like Tatum, in my opinion, if
(24:36):
somewhere around the seventh to tenth best player in the league.
And it's just really difficult to win the championship in
NBA history if you don't have one of the top
guys who won it last year. Jokic, best player in
the world who want it before that, Steph top three
player in the world who wanted before that, Giannis, top
three player in the world who wanted it before that, Lebron,
Whi Kadie and Steph Lebron, Like, you have to go
all the way back to twenty fourteen with a crazy
(24:59):
fluky Furs team that had magical ball movement and magical
everything to find a team that could win a title
without a bona fide alpha dog, top five superstar all
time great and like as much as I like Jason
Tatum and he's a super nice guy. He had another
really insightful quote about media and how much he appreciates
that media has given to the game, and like, super
(25:20):
great guy, great leader of a team, but he's just
not as good as the top guys. It's literally that simple.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well, yeah, and I think this is the first year
I've watched Anthony Davis this year and thought he's a one.
I always thought he was the best two in Lee history.
I thought it was Pippin Forever and then Anthony. And
we've had a few of these like ants A one.
You can just see it. He the trash talk, the intensity, everything.
(25:47):
You don't have to argue about that. Tatum is viewed
as an absolute one. What of like Anthony Davis, He's
he's the best two in the league. Because I really
thought this year, I'm like, got Anthony's this. This is
a healthy, dominant defender, mostly good offensively, plays through pain,
(26:08):
literally changes changes everything, and it can allow Lebron to
be a bad defender and cheat. He allows the team
to cheat. And I look at Tatum and I'm like,
it's not a knock. I know he makes all NBA,
but it's very hard to find an all times. Basketball
is a trash talking store for it's an energy juice sport.
Most guys that are like top five in the league,
(26:30):
you know, now Kawhi doesn't talk to anybody, but I
mean most of them have a little bit of a chip,
a little bit of they almost like play angry. And
Tatum doesn't have that. He's got almost like a guy personality,
you know, like he lets the game come to him. He,
you know, can always break guys down. When I've watched
him live three times, he always gets his shot. But
(26:52):
it's like he plays like a two, but we've annoyted
him to a one. And I know that sounds ridiculous,
but I don't know. When I watch him play. When
you say something for five straight years, it's probably true.
For five straight years we've said Jalen Brown sometimes acts
like he wants the ball more than Jason. Okay, we're
(27:13):
on the fifth year of that. Like that's because it
feels true, right, Am I wrong? Is he a low
end one or is he a great two? Not that
it matters, but I watch him, and I think his
body language, his mentality, how he plays his aggressiveness, he
feels like a great two.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You start when you're one of those guys, when you're
one of the true bona fide, top tier superstars in
the league and you're in your mid to late twenties,
you put together awesome playoff performance after awesome playoff performance,
Like it's there is a level of expectation that comes
from that. And I think Tatum's twenty six now and
(27:50):
he's played what eight playoff games against against pretty inferior competition,
and he shot below forty five percent seven of the
eight game. Crazy, like his best game is a fifty
percent night. So like like you'd think that there'd be
a fourteen for twenty game in there somewhere right, Like
like it's it's it's one of those things where like
(28:12):
and it really does come down to the first step
for me, He's he's a guy that doesn't have a
great first step and is an inconsistent jump shooter. Like
those two things are going to render you. Like he
does a lot. He's a very good defensive player. He's
a much better playmaker than most of the forward his
forward peers that he has in the league. He's a
very good player. I want to be clear, Like top seven,
top ten in the league is nothing to like, you know,
(28:33):
to dumb your nose at. But at the same time,
like there's levels to this, and when you get to
those top guys in the league, it's like it's like,
how is it that thirty nine year old Lebron James
was having a monumentally more a productive offensive playoff run
than you against inferior competition every single night, Like it's
like it really is bizarre, but like at the same
and here's the other thing too. What really concerns me
(28:55):
is Boston has no hierarchy, and so because Tatum is
not this guy that can really command games offensively every
single night, it's like, now Jalen Brown wants the rains,
Now Derek White wants the reins, Like Drew Holliday started
Game three against Cleveland being super aggressive out the gates
and looking for a shot, and so like, really, there's
(29:15):
it's actually kind of what leads to some of Boston's
bad rhythm games where they look really bad, is like
everyone's kind of yanking at the rains and no one
can get going right, and it's like, that's just not
what it's like on these other teams. It's like, if
you watch the Cavs, who's running the offense for the
majority of the game, Donovan Mitchell. If you watch the Knicks,
who's running the offense the majority of the game, Jalen Brunton,
Tyre's Halliburton, It's Nicole jokicch and Jamal Murray, it's Anthony Edwards,
(29:38):
it's Luka Dancis, it's Shay Gil just Alexander. In Boston,
it's like it's all just vibes. It's like whoever wants
to take control can take control and like and that
that's the thing is like, no, like this, if this
team's gonna get to the Promised Land, Jason, like, you've
got to really take control of this thing, because you
it's all great against Cleveland, and it's all great against
against Miami without Jimmy Butler, but you you've got a
(30:00):
little bit of a tougher team in the next round,
and then you're going to walk into it most likely
a Denver team in the NBA Finals that's gonna want
to snatch your heart the way that they're doing to
Carl Towns and all these other guys from Minnesota. And
so it's gonna get harder and they need more out
of him, and he just hasn't been able to get
there consistently well.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And I think I think if you look at what
Brad Stevens did the construction of the team, Porzingis was
off a very good offensive year. Drew Holiday was a
better offensive player than Marcus Smart. To me, Brad Stevens
is telling you they didn't move off Al Hertford, who
can have these weird offensive nights like I'm watching Brad Stevens,
who was a really smart guy, and I'm like he
(30:37):
wanted more offense, Like he clearly, you know, if you
go look at Kobe was getting people that didn't threatened
to take shots against Kobe or mh or right, you
don't want to take the ball to even Jalen Brunson's hands, Like,
don't don't take the ball to his hands too much
with Luca although his youth ball you said, Drake is
too high, but it kind of looks like Brad Stevens said,
(30:57):
I'd like to get better scoring in the front court,
like a better offensive player than Marcus Smart. Like he
was just adding offensive chips. That's okay, but it's a
lot of times if you have the guy, it's not
about that. It's about it adding guy who can take
off some of his defensive pressure, some size at the rim.
You know, if you go look at what they added
the Lebron, they didn't get Kevin Love to take the
(31:20):
ball out of his hand. Basically it was battye a Allen.
It was just other people that could augment the game
but not take it over. I look at them and
I'm like, they're you know, when he was healthy, Porzeis
would have twenty eight point nights and you're like, oh,
this feels like his team tonight, Like this is his team.
So again that's viewed as a criticism. But I you know,
(31:42):
if you watch how a team is run, they'll tell
you what they are. I always say this, when you
watch a football game and you watch what the team
does in the first two series, they're telling you, this
is what we think we can do. Because you want
to get ahead. If you lead in an NFL game,
you take the lead, you win, like sixty five percent
of the time, are telling you this is what the
film says, we can do this. They can't stop this.
(32:03):
There are times when I watch the Celtics and I'm
watching the construction of them, and again I'm just I'm spitballing.
But there are times I watch them and they're like,
they're telling me they have reservations. Whether Jason can take
a series over I mean, Jokic, it's established and already
(32:24):
it's absolutely established. Donovan Mitchell can be hot and cold.
But jesus, I'm gonna tell you something. I said this
the other night. Jalen Brunson gets more consistent. He's not
as athletic as Tatum. Jalen Brunson gets great looks. He
gets great shots.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
First, I don't know how he does it either, great shots.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So anyway, yeah, it'll be viewed as a criticism, but
I think it's reality. Okay, I want to do this topic.
So I saw this on the internet, and I apologize
for not giving credit. But somebody said, everybody starts somewhere.
Is JJ Reddick supposed to go to the G League?
You know a lot of these guys just don't want
(33:01):
to coach college the NIL. They just don't want to
deal with limitations NCAA. Is JJ Reddick? Is he a
bad idea for the Lakers? I mean, I think Boudenholzer
would have taken the Lakers job and Lebron would have
bought in. They couldn't get him out of town fast
enough and he had a title in Milwaukee. Jannis wasn't
a fan. Is JJ Reddick a terrible choice? Or are
(33:24):
we over overstepping that that everybody starts somewhere? Where's he
going to start? He's rich, He's not going to the
G League, not taking that job. Jason Kidd first experiment
not good. Now he's established himself. I mean, what is
your take of JJ Reddick, who people are getting gobbled
up could be head of the class now for the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, So the experience thing doesn't matter as much to
me for a couple of reasons. One, it's the classic
like corporate ideology, where like you're constantly towing the line
between rewarding experience versus rewarding talent, and like there's always
a fine line between like, oh, well, this guy's been
doing it for a ears, but it's like, yeah, but
he's the mediocre Because that's the other question here. This guy,
(34:04):
if JJ happens to have the talent for it, if
he happens to have the basketball like you or whatever
for it, then by all means make the move. And
so much of that depends on how he's acting behind
the scenes in the interviews, if they go through an
interview process. But the second piece of it is you
can counteract a lot of the lack of inexperience or
a lack of experience with just putting experienced head coaches
(34:25):
on his staff. So you can address that by just
giving him a really good assistant coaching staff. As far
as I'm concerned with JJ, Reddick, Like, when it comes
to the Lakers, what I'm really looking for is somebody
that holds players accountable because I look at them as
a defensive minded team anchored by two big athletic forwards
(34:46):
and Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Just look at the
around the league. When the Lakers won, they won when
they defended. You know, that was always their their bread
and butter. They made it to the Western Conference Finals
last year as a defensive minded team. They lost in
the first round this year as an offensive minded team.
Going back to twenty twenty, they won when they were
a defensive minded team. So I'm really interested in somebody
that's going to hold them accountable. And I don't really
(35:07):
know if JJ's willing to do that with Lebron. That's
going to be something that is going to have to
be flushed out in the interview process. But I'm not
concerned about the experience simply because if JJ's got the talent,
he's got the talent, and they're going to anchor him
with experienced NBA coaches that will help him navigate the
eighty two game regular season, And honestly, like it's really
just going to be about like a collaborative effort between
(35:30):
Lebron James and JJ Reddick to kind of identify what
the strengths and weaknesses of the roster are and go
from there. It's really hard, honestly, Colin, I wonder what
it's like for you cover in the NFL too, Like
it's really difficult with coaches, especially new coaches. We're not
there for the interviews. Like with a player, I can
go look at tape and I can get a really
(35:50):
good feel for what he's good and bad at. But
like with JJ, it's like, well, what's his philosophy going
to be? What are his core his core principles that
he's going to be the team on, Like what is
is he going to continue the five out offense they
were running out of dar with Darvin Hamm Are they
going to run something different? Are they going to do
something different defensively? It's so hard to say because we're
not in the room for those interviews. But if JJ
(36:12):
interviews well and they give him good assistant coaches and
he's got the talent for it, I absolutely think it
could work well.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I mean, Duke Kid, you know, you listen to the podcast,
he's you know, he's a thoughtful guy to me, you know,
it's experience is funny. You know, it's creating the volume
or working for years at ESPN or Fox Sports. You know,
people managers have come to me and said, hey, listen
(36:39):
to a tape or what do you make of this guy?
And my take is, if you've never done network, who cares,
Like we listened to your tape and we're like, yeah,
he's ready to go. Okay, I don't. You didn't have
to be somewhere. We thought you would be here, So
it's you know, it's Jerry Seinfeld was speaking at Duke.
He had a commencement speech. He had a great line.
(37:00):
He said, having stuff is nice, becoming stuff. Having stuff
is nice, Becoming something is really more important, and becoming
something is missus. It swings. It's an ascension. In every
job I've ever had, I was a little over my
(37:20):
skis for the first like six to eight weeks, like
I'm bailing water here, I'm trying to catch I've had
a friend once that got a job at Google and
she was like I literally six weeks in, I'm like, oh,
I'm dumb, and this is a full of smart people.
I'm too dumb to work at Google and she goes
then the light goes on. You start clicking, and then
like six months into it, you're like okay, but it's
(37:42):
like it's okay. Darvin Ham learned on the job. If
you're smart in any industry, you'll figure it out. Like
a lot of this stuff with coaching is like I
heard Frank Vogel, you know, some complex defensive stuff. Beal
didn't really buy in. Booker was close to an assistant coach,
(38:03):
much closer than he was Vogel. Kevin was fine, but
Kevin's Kevin at this point, and it was like Vogel
just didn't He didn't resonate with all the guys in
the room. JJ Redick, if Lebron buys him, we'll resonate
with everybody in the room. So my take is you
start somewhere. If you get Lebron, there is some credibility,
like with Jason Kidd, Like there is credibility player to
(38:25):
player that JJ has, And I think it's kind of
unspoken but kind of the middle aged, you know, guy
that didn't play. I always think you go into a
locker room and about half the room is like if
the star doesn't buy into it, half the room's not
buying into it. Maybe that's cynical, but I think everybody
would buy into JJ. Reddick.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, it's it's like Mike and Nory from the Timberwolves
are I can't remember his name, that assistant from the
Celtics who just got signed by the Charlotte Hornets. It's like,
if you bring in an assistant, it doesn't matter how
much he's been grinding in the film room, doesn't matter
how much he impressed the previous organization. He's got to
be able to look at Broun and be like, hey man,
I need you to do this, and Lebron's got to
be like, okay, you know. And not only that, but
I'll hold the rest of the team accountable to help
(39:06):
them along the way. And so there, I do agree
that's the gravitas piece. And by the way, that's why
they hired Darvin Ham. They thought Darvin Ham would be
able to bring some of that, like real gravitas to
the situation. The thing with JJ is you got to
acknowledge the risk because you're right, Like they let Darvin
Ham learn on the fly and he didn't really start
making huge mistakes until this season. With the roster and
when he was like leaning into cameradis we've gone over it,
(39:29):
but like he made too many mistakes and then the
Lakers had a situation where they looked at the urgency
of their situation and said, we have to make a move.
And so I just I just hope that the Lakers'
front office and ownership understands that if you do take JJ,
there is a risk. And even though I believe he
could do this well, especially with good experienced staff behind him,
(39:49):
anytime you go for a first time head coach, there's
a like what if he's just really bad at in
game adjustments, what if he's just really bad, Like we
don't know what it's going to be, Like we're going
to find out over time. And so that's where like
the let's say the alternative, Let's say they were to
get like a Kenny Atkinson for instance, Like Kenny Atkinson
is more of a known commodity. He might be a
higher floor, but like maybe you don't get some of
(40:10):
the upside you get if you get a freaked out
to your point, Steve Kerr, like Steve Kerr is regarded
as one of the best coaches in the league. I
think he's the second best coach in the league behind
Eric Spolstra. Like that was a risk signing Steve Cree.
By the way, Steve Kerr was radical. He came into
a Mark Jackson led team that was spam and pick
and roll, and he said, Hey, Steph Curry, we're taking
the ball out of your hands. We're gonna lead the
(40:31):
league in passes. We're going to run this motion ball
in player movement offense. And I'm sure there were moments
in training camp where it looked ugly, and I'm sure
there were moments where the front office was looking down like, ugh,
this is weird, you know, like we just went you know,
two great playoff runs in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, just
having Steph run spread pick and roll, so like this
is funky, But then it works and now Steve Kerr
(40:52):
is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league.
So like, there's upside to going with the JJ, but
there's also a risk. And so for me, I'm okay
with that risk because I don't really think there's any
candidate out there that's a home run anyway, right, So
I think there's risk all around to begin with.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Because the league is so player driven, you have to
be more patient. Like you know, in football, it's really
owner coach gm driven. So there's no excuse for a
coach to say, you know, I can't get the room.
I can't get the room. Just cut guys. If you
can't get the room, you're never going to be a
good coach in the NFL, in the NBA international soccer,
(41:38):
where you have these Rinaldo's and Lebron's that are literally,
I mean, they're almost above the sport. They're these iconic figures,
it is harder to get that attention. It is harder
to get the buy in you hopefully get a Tim
Duncan or you know, I mean, I think sometimes we
forget that Phil Jackson had replaced Doug Collins. Michael liked Doug.
(42:02):
Doug's really intense and there was some combative nature to
his personality, but Doug Collins and Michael mostly worked. That
was the first time Michael got real buy in from Doug,
and he got real buy in from Phil. Phil's considered,
you know, the zen master, the better coach, but part
of its buy in. But I think Lebron has to
(42:25):
also acknowledge, you know, when Michael was in a prime
for both Collins and Phil like Lebron's not there anymore.
And I do think when he was completely unselfish for
the fifteen years in his prime, he could have scored
twelve to fifteen points more every game he played in
Now he can be a little He looks for soft
(42:45):
spots in the defense, that he can manipulate smaller players,
that he can drive to the basket on you've talked
about this is that I think Lebron gets a little
selfish now where it's more about legacy and production. Is
that I think it's time to step back. I'm not
denying he's a top six player in any night, but
(43:06):
it does feel like a little bit with Lebron he's
gotten a little selfish where it's like it's okay to
acknowledge is you can't literally even if you're great, you're
not guaranteeing anything in this league. This is the West,
it's packed. You could be a playing team. And I
know you know Lebron better than anybody his game, but
(43:27):
I do feel like with Lebron he's a little more
of a taker than a giver now. In turn, not
just not just assists, but he's seeking play he's seeking
production sometimes to maintain and I think it's time to
step back. I think he should be a two on
a team.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
I know, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, this
was actually kind of a little bit of a subplot
over the last two seasons, more so last year than
this year because Lebron was so good this season. But
like the record, I don't really I don't think it's legacy.
I think it's confidence. Like I think Lebron still thinks
he's the guy, you know, and so I think a
lot of times like Lebron confronts a basketball problem, like, Okay,
(44:12):
we're in this slow down basketball game. I need to
get something going for my team offensively. That means give
me the ball and then I'm gonna, you know, play
basketball surgeon, you know, bring this guy up. I'm gonna
get a switch. I'm going to attack this smaller player. Oh,
I want to pick on Jokichen pick and roll. So
we're gonna bring Anthony Davis up to the screen. But
one of the things that I noticed over the course
the last couple of years is Lebron almost confronted every
(44:34):
basketball problem with him having the ball in his hands, right,
and there is something to be said about like, even
though Lebron on the ball is still a very effective
form of offense, it's not the same as it used
to be. And you know, specifically with Anthony Davis, I
actually do think that Lebron would benefit from leaning more
on Anthony Davis offensively over the course of the season.
(44:57):
One to build up Anthony Davis's confidence so that when
they get into some of these situations where they need
to lean on a like perfect example of this was
was Game two against Denver when they blew the twenty
point lead. It was Lebron and a D were picking
on Nicole jokicchen ball screens, and then Michael Lane made
a very smart adjustment. He moved Aaron Gordon onto Anthony
(45:19):
Davis so that they could switch the Lebron ad pick
and roll. And then Lebron instead of going, hey, Aaron
Gordon's on a D. Let me just keep beating a
D against Aaron Gordon. Instead he thought, I can beat
jokicen ball screens because I'm Lebron. So now I'm going
to bring Ruey up to the screen because Jokic is
(45:40):
guarding Ruie, and I'll start to pick on Jokic and
the Laker offense fell apart, and so like, I don't
I think Lebron made the bad read because he was thinking,
I'm Lebron James, but it's not on Lebron James. I'm
thirty nine year old Lebron James. So maybe I should
go to this other guy who made fourteen straight shot
earlier in the game, Like, maybe I should go to
(46:01):
him instead, And so I think you're right, Like I
think in general, and this is something I think that
the Lakers from an organizational standpoint hiring a coach and
as they approach this offseason, they need to actually give
a clear ball handling option that's not Lebron, so that
Lebron doesn't have to feel like he needs to approach
every problem by him playing Lebron ball out above the
(46:24):
break and the big guy that I'm looking at, and
I really I want them to go after de Jontay Murray.
I don't know if he saw today, but in the
draft lottery, the Hawks got the number one overall n yeah,
which which is which is super interesting because like I
would imagine they're going to look at that as let's
rebuild around Trey Young and Jalen Johnson, and so I
think they I think they'll probably look to move to
Jontay Murray this summer. And he's one of those guys
(46:45):
where like Desonte was really good in the play in
games and really good down the stretch of the season.
He can really beat people off the dribble. He's an
excellent point of attack defender. That's the kind of guy
where like you can actually put yourself in a situation
where you have a like because as good as Austin
Reeves is, you kind of own you want to lean
on him. It's better that he can go on spurts.
You don't want to lean on him for big doses.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I saw if you look at de Jonte Murray's numbers
when Trey Young didn't play, like it's it's a little
Jalen Brunson without Luca. Oh yeah, you're like, oh, oh no,
he could be a one and a bad team or
a top I mean like, when Trey Young didn't play,
there were like thirty percent elevation and assists twenty five percent.
Like I don't remember the exact numbers, but I did
(47:26):
a rant on this and I was like, I mean,
you watch him, he's obviously explosive. You can see that.
But it's like we did this with Brunson. You know,
you're like, well, he's kind of a two to Tray,
and it's like, no, maybe they're two ones. The numbers.
When Trey doesn't play, Dejonte's numbers move up and his
efficiency gets better. So that's an interesting one to me.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, to put it simply, the Luca Trey, like heliocentric,
do everything player, it is difficult to be the number
two for that guy. We can at least admit that.
If anything, it's like a testament to Kyrie, Like Kyrie's
the kind of guy like in Game three are Game
two who can score eight points and still dominate the
game as an excellent defensive player and passer and all
that kind of stuff, but like it is difficult to
(48:09):
be in that role. And de Jontay Murray in particular,
like he's a guy that like he can really dance
with the ball, beat people off the dribble and make
stuff happen, and so like if he's and what you
know what no one ever said about de Jontay Murray
is he's Klay Thompson. Like he's not going to stand
out on the wing and just shoot, catch and shoot
threes all game and so like it. Actually, it actually
makes a lot of sense. I actually look at that
as if I was the Lakers this summer, I'd look
(48:31):
two routes through the trade. I'd look for de Jontay
Murray through free agency, because they'll have their mid level
exception that they can use every year. I would target
a real center, like an actual big center that can
play next to Lebron James and Anthony Davis and give
them a big look. I think if they do that
and Jared Vanderbilt gets healthy, they all of a sudden
(48:53):
become a much more physically imposing team with a lot
more ball handling because of de Jontay Murray. Like, I
actually think that there's a a if they nail this
summer and the head coach hire works out, I think
there's a small opportunity for them to do some damage
next year. But but yeah, like I uh, the JJ
Redick piece, I really do think that there's It's just
(49:14):
as good as any other option out there. It's not
like there's some slam dunk home run option, and so
I kind of think as long as he nails the interviews,
and they put the right staff around him. It could work.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Jason Temp hoops tonight as always, great stuff, Bud.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
It's good to see a man looking forward to next
week the volume.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, Jason timp is about to stop by for
our weekly NBA playoff hit before we go to Jason, Hey,
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(01:09):
customary Sunday night. You hear it mostly on Monday morning.
Jason Timph podcast as Hoops Tonight. You know it's interesting.
Schedules can matter. NFL will release their schedule on Wednesday,
and I think it's a big deal. We all know
who everybody plays already, but it's the order. For instance,
playing in Denver high altitude in September when you're coming
(01:30):
out of camp. His oha has been tough. Playing Andy
Reid in September tough. Some of the defensive coaches experiment
more offensively early. Belichick never had a great September so
and also back to back to back tough games, road games.
You know, Miami would prefer to never go into Buffalo
with two as a quarterback in December and January. They'd
love to get that game out. And you know September
(01:52):
October when the weather's great, so there are absolute you know,
Dome teams. They don't want to play December January games
up north. When the league had a gap between games
two and three, Denver Minnesota, and it hurts Minnesota's momentum,
and it gives Denver time to prepare. You get that
extra film session or three. It's a totally different team.
(02:15):
I mean, there was they were Denver was so bad defensively,
so lethargic. Now it's almost like Denver saying, let ant
get his he's gonna get forty. We're not gonna stop him,
and let's shut down the other dudes. But I mean,
it does feel like to me that that time, an
extra day or two here for a really smart veteran
team and a good staff feels so substantial.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, Minnesota came out with pretty bad energy in Game three,
and himself admitted it after the game, He's like, I
came out with low energy. The meanwhile, for three consecutive days,
Denver had to sit around and listen to everyone talk
shit about them, Like literally, it was like they just
got humiliated for three consecutive days. And you know, I
said after Game two, it wasn't really a about basketball
(03:01):
to me. I thought that Minnesota brought a level of
physicality that Denver had not seen really at all in
the previous five rounds that they had played in the postseason.
And I thought they got a little caught off guard
by it, and specifically in Game two, they crumbled mentally
in a way that they never had before. Right, And honestly,
(03:22):
do you remember in Game three at the beginning that
play when Anthony Edwards was messing with his shoulder for
like thirty seconds. That was the first play of the game.
And on that play, Nikola Jokic just rocked him with
the screen, just like a super super hard screen. And
when I went back and looked over the film in
that game, like really all that happened was Denver did
all the same things that they have done all season.
(03:44):
They just did him harder, faster, with more force. They
finally met the physical confrontation. And when they did, you
found out pretty quickly they can still score on these guys.
It's like, it's not like Jamal hasn't seen a lengthy
perimeter defender before. Of course he has. It's not like
Jokic hasn't seen two centers on the floor before. Of
course he has. They've all seen that before. They just
didn't handle it well. And then the big one here,
(04:05):
And this is something that I called out before the series,
and I really was surprised that it took this long.
But Minnesota is a mediocre offense.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
No listen, Anthony, because Anthony, that's what I think Denver
looked at and said, just give Anne this forty. They
have a lot of very good athletes and length. But
if Karl Anthony Towns like tonight is just kind of
just wandering. There's not really a second scoring option on
(04:33):
this team. There really isn't. So you need Towns, who's
always been to me talented but a little flaky, a
little inconsistent, you know what I mean. Like Anthony Davis
gives you the same defense every game, Karl, Anthony Towns,
who was more gifted offensively, should be as good offensively
as Anthony Davis as defensively. He's not get you just
get he's lost. And I thought, in this game, what
(04:55):
are we doing here? And when he doesn't deliver, it
doesn't matter what ants An could score fifty. I mean,
Jordan was scoring sixty three and they couldn't beat the Celtics. Like,
so I do think Denver just said, listen, we're not
going to stop this kid and make everybody else work.
And I think your point is right is that if
Towns is off, it's an athletic team. They're long, they
(05:18):
almost have an extra wing defender and one less shooter
than they need.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
No, absolutely, and like it really comes down to this.
They were a mediocre offense all season long, and then
they've got a bunch of these streaky guys, guys like Cat,
guys like Nikaile Alexander Walker, guys like nas Reed who
like are capable of playing at a higher level offensively,
but Phoenix couldn't really play them out of that. Denver's
lackadaisical defensive effort in the first two games couldn't play
(05:44):
that play them out of that. But as soon as
Denver tightened the screws, Hat fell apart, Mikail, Alexander Walker
fell apart, nas Reed fell apart, like in immediately, Rudy
Gobert looks like a damaging offensive player because he's got
stone hands and he can't like make quick decisions when
he catches on the roll, and so like, literally, Minnesota
looked like regular season Minnesota. If anything, it's it's it's
(06:05):
really impressive that ant is demonstrating his leap is for real,
and specifically on the Karl Anthony Towns front. You know this,
Carl Carltown's reminds me of a specific type of player
I've seen several times in NBA history. The most recent
example kind of reminds me of Kevin Love. And obviously
Kat has a better pedigree, but like it's like the
big scoring like kind of hybrid big, but one that's
(06:29):
not actually that superior of an athlete compared to his peers, right,
and the and that can shoot. And so what happens
is during the eighty two game regular season, they get
their twenty five points a night because they can bully
smaller players and they can hit threes. But every every
single time, Kevin Love would run into a really big
athletic forward, someone like a Thaddeus Young or a Draymond Green,
(06:50):
and just render Kevin Love into a spot up shooter.
And then and then everyone be like, oh, Lebron, make
Kevin Love a spot up shooter. It's like, actually, that's
all he can do when you reach these super high
levels of intensity. Aaron Gordon demolished Carl Towns tonight, which
is just completely just snatched his so much better. He's
a much better athlete, exactly. It's like the un it's
(07:11):
like the guy who's a little bit shorter but stronger,
more athletic, kind of like Draymond or that he's young,
like I was talking about Kevin Love. They can beat
Carl Towns to spots and so make it so that
he can't drive. And then if he can't drive, he's
suddenly just a shooter, and it's like with the shots
start going in, then his impact craters, and so yeah,
like there's another conversation to be had. I mean, you
(07:32):
you even when Minnesota was playing, well, we're pointing out, like,
is Karl Anthony town still going to be here in
the future, And it's like there's a there's a there's
a real conversation to be had about the team build
of Minnesota in the sense that Carl Anthony Towns is
what he is. He's never going to become a super
reliable secondary shot creator. You can't let it go out
there by himself every night. Is the only guy who
can get to his spots and create shots. So I
(07:54):
don't know what they do about that in the long run,
but tonight was at the last two games. This is
not game one two of a series where you're feeling
each other out. Everyone knows exactly what everyone's good and
bad at right now, and nobody on Minnesota can score
except for Aunt, and that's a major problem.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Well and also, I mean, Yokichen Aunt are transcended, so
to some degree, you know, going into a game, you're
giving up thirty plus you know Bird, you know, Jordan Kobe,
some guys are just like you've been in the gym,
Like that guy's gonna get his The series really comes
down to, like it's amazing Gordon versus Karl Anthony Towns.
(08:31):
You're like, oh, that's that's kind of what the series
has come down to, because you can't new you can
only do so much to neutralize a superstar in this sport,
and then all of a sudden and again this is
what champions do. We forget this. I remember a couple
of years ago the Celtics played the Warriors in the
finals and through the first couple of games of the series,
(08:52):
through three games, Boston was so much better than Golden State,
and you're like, Steve Kerr gets an extra day, there's
preparation that go to Boston and you're like, who unplugged
the electricity with a stomachs? Like what happened? And I
think the mistake I make thinking Denver's cooked is you
give these championship teams time. They're well coached. I mean,
(09:13):
Malone's been there. I mean, if you forget, I mean
he was like seven years in and they were just
they just let it bake. I mean, there was no pressure.
They couldn't win with Yokich for years. So this is
a team that's you know, they've been through a lot
of these battles. They've lost a lot of them in
the early years, but they've had to make major adjustments.
And you know, I rushed to judgment. I look at
(09:34):
Denver now and I'm like, oh, this this is what
I thought the series would look like, which is again,
they would match their length and physicality and Jokis would
just you know, Murray and Yokic are both elite scorers.
So I will say this. I don't know why the
media does this. They get so protective from people that
don't need it. But Ant is spectacular, Like I always
(09:58):
felt this about And I'm not saying he's Jordan, but
he has some Jordan qualities. And that's okay. Mahomes you
know they're talking about Kayleb Williams has Mahomes qualities. Yes
he does. All the scouts are saying, hey, he plays
like Patrick Mahomes. There are things about Aunt, but the
most Jordan thing about him is I remember watching Jordan
against Phoenix in his prime and I was sitting on
(10:20):
the couch with a friend watching it and I'm like, Okay,
he's not the best shooter, the best ball hand, He's
not the quickest guy in the league and he's six six.
Why does it look like he's like the only Division
IE player playing at the y Like it's like it.
He makes it look so easy and gets past people
on the first step. These are NBA athletes. He just
(10:43):
gets past everybody. So when you watch it on TV,
I don't think you would appreciate it, the ability to, Oh,
everybody knows where he's going. He loves the first step,
He sizes you up. He makes the game look easy.
Mahomes does this, Jordan did this? Like what? Why? How
I'm watching ant and even against good offenders. I mean
(11:05):
Jamal Murray switched off to him one time. I'm like,
this is not even competitive. Murray's a world class athlete.
I mean, you've been in gyms with guys. But I
look at this and I'm like, when guys start making
thirty eight points look easy, there's about three in the
league at any one time that can do that. Maybe one.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, there's athletic and then there's athletic. Among the athletes.
It's like an entirely different stratosphere, right, And like that's
kind of to me the difference between like a Jason
Tatum and an Anthony Edwards. Like Jason Tatum is a
very good NBA athlete, like but like like, like he's
in the he's close to that, like truly transcendent. But
there's clearly a difference between ant sizing up an elite
(11:47):
defender and beating him off the dribble and Tatum doing
the same thing. It's like that next level of elite,
top tier athleticism. Honestly, I regardless of what happens the
rest of this series, and I do think Denver is
gonna be gonna pull this out now. I think they've
effectively just rendered Minnesota's offense useless and they're gonna go home,
and I think they're gonna win Game five. And the
(12:07):
biggest thing too, is like Minnesota hasn't been particularly competitive
in either of these games, which is which is a
major concern, right, But like, no matter what, it's very
clear that Anthony Edwards is here to stay. I think
he's the next guy in that like line of truly
transcendent great American basketball players, Like it went from MJ
to Kobe, and it went from Kobe to Lebron and
(12:27):
like there have been guys along the way that have
had their little moments, but nobody that really had the
potential to take over the league for a long time.
And can't you just see it, Colin, can't you just
kind of imagine what the next ten years are like
for Ams? You could just kind of imagine him continuing
to ascend and getting better and better. I started to
think tonight, like like if it could have pulled this
(12:47):
game out, it could have been one of those transcendent
moments you think about, like, you know, Lebron is in
like two thousand and seven or two thousand and eight
kind of thing, and honestly, like Denver's just too good.
That's really all it is. Like Lebron ran into the
OA Spurs and got swept. So like, at a certain point,
it doesn't matter how how good you are at that
phase of your career. It is a team sport. And
and like literally while all of his veteran teammates were
(13:09):
falling apart, he was continuing to ascend. It was really impressive.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, I mean, and this is appropriate, Jordan couldn't get
through a fully formed Pistons or Celtic dynasty, So I mean,
Denver's fully formed, they have the experience, they're better offensively,
they have Minnesota's length. So again, this is the way
it works. It's the baby steps. He comes in, he
pushes and makes a Denver you know, step back. They
got hit in the gin. Oh we got you know,
(13:35):
they dazed the champion and they lost. That's what happened
to Jordan. That's what happens to Lebron. So to me,
this is totally appropriate. We are amazed by the individual player,
but they still have tweaking to do. I mean, we
all know what Minnesota's gonna do in the off season.
Are probably gonna move Karl Anthony Towns and they're gonna
get They're gonna get more offensive players. I mean, eventually
(13:56):
Jordan needed Pippin and Kerr, you know. I mean, like,
you know, don't have to be a nightly great player,
but you do have to find players that take something
off Ant's plate a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
There has to be like Minnesota should go after KD.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's not terrible because again the great gift of KD.
You can give him the ball eight seconds in the
shot clock four, He'll get a great look. He doesn't need,
you know, it's a little Klay Thompson, but obviously much better.
He doesn't need the ball in his hands. That's why,
that's why the Jalen bruns and Katie works. The emotional
part of kde to the Knicks TIBs that style. You know,
(14:33):
is he willing for it. Let's let's pivot to that,
because listen, the Knicks are beat up. Nothing you can do.
Just set the guys down, get ready for Tuesday. Be embarrassed.
You know you'll be on fire Tuesday. So Og is hurt.
Og got banged up this year as well. Brunson's not
one hundred percent. We already know Mitchell Robbins and Julius
Randall are out. So this is a limited team offensively
(14:55):
without injuries. So we all kind of kept waiting for
this team that was playing Game seven intensity to just
just collapse. Just the wheels came off, and they sort
of did. I still think they have a chance to
win this series. But I was saying this earlier this week,
and I said it last time I was on with you.
There's a lot of different scenarios with the Knicks, and
it's very easy to talk yourself into we're just a
(15:17):
piece away, but the East is gonna get better. It's
just gonna get better. Butler's gonna be healthy, Dame's gonna
be healthy, Yannis will probably be back, and Beat'll get help.
There's so many scenarios for the Knicks, and I do
wonder if instead of looking at Kevin Durant and a
Paul George, they just they find another og on the market,
you know, they go get another really good player, because
(15:39):
I do think, you know, playing hard, maybe it has
limitations if you fade. I don't think they can beat
a Denver a Minnesota's length. But the Knicks have done
something in the last three years that they haven't done
for twenty, which is they're patient. They're like you look
at them and you're like, this well run team. They
(16:01):
don't take I mean they used to take, you know,
big reaches on Amari Stodameyer when he had bad knees.
It's like, what are you doing? Like every GM in
the league's like that. Amari's you know, he's he's got
like two years left, he's cooked.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
We're training for Carmelo when they could have sign him
as a free agent one year later, not got the roster.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I don't know exactly what they do. I think Paul
George fits everywhere. But again, it's such a unique culture,
like it's just not for everybody. I mean, I can't
wait to watch. I don't They're not a championship team.
I think you know listen, they're not. We know it.
They're just you can't. There's too many great players, too
many good teams in this league. Kicks are not a
championship team. I don't know what the solution is. I
(16:41):
want to watch it. It's not in the draft. We
know that it's not a good draft. I mean Kd's
it's it's I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
KD is.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Boy. You look at him post Golden State, It's it's
he's different. He's run of the two coaches, you know,
and Tims has power in that room. Nobody's pushing back
on TIBs.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I think for sure they need somebody that can play.
That's bigger. I mean, the biggest problem they're running into
now is their best five guys are four guards in
Isaiah Hartenstein because of the Ognnobe injury. So like they're
literally running out there with Runson Heart, Devincenzo and Deuce
McBride with Isaiah Hartenstein and trying to make plays happen,
and like there have been moments where they've been playing
(17:24):
Alec Burks at the four, Like they're really really undersized
right now, and so I do get encouraged by the
idea just if you could somehow get KD with that Ognnob,
which I think would be really difficult. I like the
idea of having Og at the three with KD and
Hartenstein because you're just really big on the front line,
and then you could still have a Devincenzo or Heart
(17:46):
at the two, so you maintain some of that physicality.
It's just if you had to give up Og, that's
such a significant chunk of that identity. I mean, just
look at this Pacers series since Og and Andobi has
gone down. They's just just physically look different. They just
look different right now. Like Indiana has to feel really
good going into Game five, like they're gonna win this
series because they really controlled things outside of outside of
(18:09):
a few clutch stretches in games one and two. And
that's the other thing too. New York actually has a
negative point differential to this point in the postseason, which
is actually kind of crazy, but it's because they've been
in every close game and just pulled it out late,
and so you have to get some bounces that go
your way. Like even when you look back, it's like
how they beat the Sixers in game in game six,
it was it was a Josh Hart three from the
(18:31):
top of the key at like that broke a tie
in the final minute, you know what I mean? Like
it it's big shots at the end of games like it.
Really the teams that can win the championship, they don't
need to do that every single night. So I do
think they need some more firepower, but it's just gonna
be really difficult to toe that line between adding firepower
while sacrificing the physical identity, which is such an important
(18:53):
part of how they win.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
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Morgan and Morgan is really easy. So I said this
last week, and and I lose track sometimes because I'm
(20:02):
doing three hours a day and I'm doing this with you,
and I'm doing other stuff. But I want to talk
Celtics for a second. I said, the NBA. I grew
up in the seventies. It's pretty well chronicled. I can
tell you the starting lineups for the Washington team that won,
the Portland team, the Sonic team, the Sixer team. Like
that was really in my wheelhouse. I was collecting basketball cards.
I was like a you know, like like you are now.
(20:25):
I literally just could not get a night. It was
the only thing I cared about, you know, when I
was a young kid, and so and then you get dynasties.
You get the Laker dynasty and the Celtic dynasty, and
the Piston dynaty, and the Bulls and the Shaq and
Kobe and the Spurs and so all these dynasties come up,
and I do think it's the first time we don't
have another dynasty. I think we have really good teams now.
(20:45):
Again Denver wins it, then you've moved into the Heatles
conversation where you're darn close. Now it's not a dynasty,
but you can. It does have a spurs feel to it.
Like with Jokic, he doesn't need the attention. He's the
kind of guy that would take a pay cut, like,
let's just keep doing this, running it back. I don't
need the drama. They have a very spurs feel to them.
You know. The Star is like a good guy, kind
(21:06):
of Brady esque, like, let's just keep our roster. But
I was looking at Boston and I'm like, in this
era of good, maybe Boston's just two things very good.
Because they're five hundred at home over the last three
years historically makes no sense. That is just not the
way it works. Great teams are so think about this,
(21:29):
they're five hundred at home in the playoffs. I've only
been one finals that's against the East. The East has
been abysmal for about four years. So they're five hundred
at home in the playoffs against a weak, much weaker conference.
It's hard to argue they're elite or special. What they
are is very good. I said, I think they don't
(21:49):
have a Shack a Kobe and mj in their prime,
not even an ant Is it possible? They have two
Scottie Pippins and you're like, they're good enough to win
a title, but they need some breaks because I keep
watching them and just if they're not hitting threes, they
get bad fast, like you're like, wow, this is They're
just and they're almost unserious, like they're just the energy
(22:11):
is terrible. Is it possible we've overvalued them because it's
a big brand. We like Tatum, it's a you know,
you have two players, they do point differential regular season,
they're outstanding. You can't be five hundred at home over
three years against the East and tell me you're elite.
That it would be different, Jason if they had a title.
(22:33):
And then you kind of pull the governor down like
we've seen this of the Shack Kobe teams, it's like
they're great, or Kad and the Warriors. Then you pull
it down, like, let's just get through the regular season.
What is Boston elite or in my contention, they're very
good in an era of.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Good, they're very good. I mean, coming into the season,
you and I were on the same page on this,
like they're kind of on the same level as Denver,
And then when we did our playoff review, we were like,
they're kind of on the same level Denver. Yet they
had like I can't remember exactly what the Nuggets finished with,
but they were a mid fifties team and the Celtics
were a mid sixties team in terms of wins, right, So,
like they've won sixty something games this year, but they're
(23:11):
not like a traditional sixty win powerhouse because the Eastern
Conference is so weak. And again, it's really this simple.
You play fifty two games every single season against your
own conference, right, you play thirty against the other conference.
So like, and all you have to do is go
look at the go look at the ESPN standings, and
go look at the record for Boston against the Western Conference.
(23:33):
They were just another team against the Western Conference. I
think if Boston was in the West, they'd be near
the top, but they would not have separated themselves the
way that they did against the way that they did
against the rest of the East. Now, one of the
things with Boston, like Boston has nowhere near the defensive
personnel that Minnesota does so like and that's the scary
(23:54):
thing with what Denver's doing right now is you could
not build a better team to guard the Denver Nuts
than what they have, and Denver has sliced and diced
them two games in a row. Now, so like Denver's
gonna score on Boston. But what Boston has that Minnesota
doesn't is they have a ton of offensive skill. All
five of their guys in the starting line that can shoot,
(24:15):
everyone can dribble, and so they do have the ability
to kind of space Denver out and have some success there.
I think Boston presents some challenges for Denver, but I
would pick Denver to beat them. And so to put
it simply, they're just another team in the top tier,
whereas if you looked at the standings, you would view
them as having separated. And really it does come down
to Tatum for me, Like Tatum, in my opinion, if
(24:36):
somewhere around the seventh to tenth best player in the league.
And it's just really difficult to win the championship in
NBA history if you don't have one of the top
guys who won it last year. Jokic, best player in
the world who want it before that, Steph top three
player in the world who wanted before that, Giannis, top
three player in the world who wanted it before that, Lebron,
Whi Kadie and Steph Lebron, Like, you have to go
all the way back to twenty fourteen with a crazy
(24:59):
fluky Furs team that had magical ball movement and magical
everything to find a team that could win a title
without a bona fide alpha dog, top five superstar all
time great and like as much as I like Jason
Tatum and he's a super nice guy. He had another
really insightful quote about media and how much he appreciates
that media has given to the game, and like, super
(25:20):
great guy, great leader of a team, but he's just
not as good as the top guys. It's literally that simple.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well, yeah, and I think this is the first year
I've watched Anthony Davis this year and thought he's a one.
I always thought he was the best two in Lee history.
I thought it was Pippin Forever and then Anthony. And
we've had a few of these like ants A one.
You can just see it. He the trash talk, the intensity, everything.
(25:47):
You don't have to argue about that. Tatum is viewed
as an absolute one. What of like Anthony Davis, He's
he's the best two in the league. Because I really
thought this year, I'm like, got Anthony's this. This is
a healthy, dominant defender, mostly good offensively, plays through pain,
(26:08):
literally changes changes everything, and it can allow Lebron to
be a bad defender and cheat. He allows the team
to cheat. And I look at Tatum and I'm like,
it's not a knock. I know he makes all NBA,
but it's very hard to find an all times. Basketball
is a trash talking store for it's an energy juice sport.
Most guys that are like top five in the league,
(26:30):
you know, now Kawhi doesn't talk to anybody, but I
mean most of them have a little bit of a chip,
a little bit of they almost like play angry. And
Tatum doesn't have that. He's got almost like a guy personality,
you know, like he lets the game come to him. He,
you know, can always break guys down. When I've watched
him live three times, he always gets his shot. But
(26:52):
it's like he plays like a two, but we've annoyted
him to a one. And I know that sounds ridiculous,
but I don't know. When I watch him play. When
you say something for five straight years, it's probably true.
For five straight years we've said Jalen Brown sometimes acts
like he wants the ball more than Jason. Okay, we're
(27:13):
on the fifth year of that. Like that's because it
feels true, right, Am I wrong? Is he a low
end one or is he a great two? Not that
it matters, but I watch him, and I think his
body language, his mentality, how he plays his aggressiveness, he
feels like a great two.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You start when you're one of those guys, when you're
one of the true bona fide, top tier superstars in
the league and you're in your mid to late twenties,
you put together awesome playoff performance after awesome playoff performance,
Like it's there is a level of expectation that comes
from that. And I think Tatum's twenty six now and
(27:50):
he's played what eight playoff games against against pretty inferior competition,
and he shot below forty five percent seven of the
eight game. Crazy, like his best game is a fifty
percent night. So like like you'd think that there'd be
a fourteen for twenty game in there somewhere right, Like
like it's it's it's one of those things where like
(28:12):
and it really does come down to the first step
for me, He's he's a guy that doesn't have a
great first step and is an inconsistent jump shooter. Like
those two things are going to render you. Like he
does a lot. He's a very good defensive player. He's
a much better playmaker than most of the forward his
forward peers that he has in the league. He's a
very good player. I want to be clear, Like top seven,
top ten in the league is nothing to like, you know,
(28:33):
to dumb your nose at. But at the same time,
like there's levels to this, and when you get to
those top guys in the league, it's like it's like,
how is it that thirty nine year old Lebron James
was having a monumentally more a productive offensive playoff run
than you against inferior competition every single night, Like it's
like it really is bizarre, but like at the same
and here's the other thing too. What really concerns me
(28:55):
is Boston has no hierarchy, and so because Tatum is
not this guy that can really command games offensively every
single night, it's like, now Jalen Brown wants the rains,
Now Derek White wants the reins, Like Drew Holliday started
Game three against Cleveland being super aggressive out the gates
and looking for a shot, and so like, really, there's
(29:15):
it's actually kind of what leads to some of Boston's
bad rhythm games where they look really bad, is like
everyone's kind of yanking at the rains and no one
can get going right, and it's like, that's just not
what it's like on these other teams. It's like, if
you watch the Cavs, who's running the offense for the
majority of the game, Donovan Mitchell. If you watch the Knicks,
who's running the offense the majority of the game, Jalen Brunton,
Tyre's Halliburton, It's Nicole jokicch and Jamal Murray, it's Anthony Edwards,
(29:38):
it's Luka Dancis, it's Shay Gil just Alexander. In Boston,
it's like it's all just vibes. It's like whoever wants
to take control can take control and like and that
that's the thing is like, no, like this, if this
team's gonna get to the Promised Land, Jason, like, you've
got to really take control of this thing, because you
it's all great against Cleveland, and it's all great against
against Miami without Jimmy Butler, but you you've got a
(30:00):
little bit of a tougher team in the next round,
and then you're going to walk into it most likely
a Denver team in the NBA Finals that's gonna want
to snatch your heart the way that they're doing to
Carl Towns and all these other guys from Minnesota. And
so it's gonna get harder and they need more out
of him, and he just hasn't been able to get
there consistently well.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And I think I think if you look at what
Brad Stevens did the construction of the team, Porzingis was
off a very good offensive year. Drew Holiday was a
better offensive player than Marcus Smart. To me, Brad Stevens
is telling you they didn't move off Al Hertford, who
can have these weird offensive nights like I'm watching Brad Stevens,
who was a really smart guy, and I'm like he
(30:37):
wanted more offense, Like he clearly, you know, if you
go look at Kobe was getting people that didn't threatened
to take shots against Kobe or mh or right, you
don't want to take the ball to even Jalen Brunson's hands, Like,
don't don't take the ball to his hands too much
with Luca although his youth ball you said, Drake is
too high, but it kind of looks like Brad Stevens said,
(30:57):
I'd like to get better scoring in the front court,
like a better offensive player than Marcus Smart. Like he
was just adding offensive chips. That's okay, but it's a
lot of times if you have the guy, it's not
about that. It's about it adding guy who can take
off some of his defensive pressure, some size at the rim.
You know, if you go look at what they added
the Lebron, they didn't get Kevin Love to take the
(31:20):
ball out of his hand. Basically it was battye a Allen.
It was just other people that could augment the game
but not take it over. I look at them and
I'm like, they're you know, when he was healthy, Porzeis
would have twenty eight point nights and you're like, oh,
this feels like his team tonight, Like this is his team.
So again that's viewed as a criticism. But I you know,
(31:42):
if you watch how a team is run, they'll tell
you what they are. I always say this, when you
watch a football game and you watch what the team
does in the first two series, they're telling you, this
is what we think we can do. Because you want
to get ahead. If you lead in an NFL game,
you take the lead, you win, like sixty five percent
of the time, are telling you this is what the
film says, we can do this. They can't stop this.
(32:03):
There are times when I watch the Celtics and I'm
watching the construction of them, and again I'm just I'm spitballing.
But there are times I watch them and they're like,
they're telling me they have reservations. Whether Jason can take
a series over I mean, Jokic, it's established and already
(32:24):
it's absolutely established. Donovan Mitchell can be hot and cold.
But jesus, I'm gonna tell you something. I said this
the other night. Jalen Brunson gets more consistent. He's not
as athletic as Tatum. Jalen Brunson gets great looks. He
gets great shots.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
First, I don't know how he does it either, great shots.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So anyway, yeah, it'll be viewed as a criticism, but
I think it's reality. Okay, I want to do this topic.
So I saw this on the internet, and I apologize
for not giving credit. But somebody said, everybody starts somewhere.
Is JJ Reddick supposed to go to the G League?
You know a lot of these guys just don't want
(33:01):
to coach college the NIL. They just don't want to
deal with limitations NCAA. Is JJ Reddick? Is he a
bad idea for the Lakers? I mean, I think Boudenholzer
would have taken the Lakers job and Lebron would have
bought in. They couldn't get him out of town fast
enough and he had a title in Milwaukee. Jannis wasn't
a fan. Is JJ Reddick a terrible choice? Or are
(33:24):
we over overstepping that that everybody starts somewhere? Where's he
going to start? He's rich, He's not going to the
G League, not taking that job. Jason Kidd first experiment
not good. Now he's established himself. I mean, what is
your take of JJ Reddick, who people are getting gobbled
up could be head of the class now for the Lakers.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, So the experience thing doesn't matter as much to
me for a couple of reasons. One, it's the classic
like corporate ideology, where like you're constantly towing the line
between rewarding experience versus rewarding talent, and like there's always
a fine line between like, oh, well, this guy's been
doing it for a ears, but it's like, yeah, but
he's the mediocre Because that's the other question here. This guy,
(34:04):
if JJ happens to have the talent for it, if
he happens to have the basketball like you or whatever
for it, then by all means make the move. And
so much of that depends on how he's acting behind
the scenes in the interviews, if they go through an
interview process. But the second piece of it is you
can counteract a lot of the lack of inexperience or
a lack of experience with just putting experienced head coaches
(34:25):
on his staff. So you can address that by just
giving him a really good assistant coaching staff. As far
as I'm concerned with JJ, Reddick, Like, when it comes
to the Lakers, what I'm really looking for is somebody
that holds players accountable because I look at them as
a defensive minded team anchored by two big athletic forwards
(34:46):
and Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Just look at the
around the league. When the Lakers won, they won when
they defended. You know, that was always their their bread
and butter. They made it to the Western Conference Finals
last year as a defensive minded team. They lost in
the first round this year as an offensive minded team.
Going back to twenty twenty, they won when they were
a defensive minded team. So I'm really interested in somebody
that's going to hold them accountable. And I don't really
(35:07):
know if JJ's willing to do that with Lebron. That's
going to be something that is going to have to
be flushed out in the interview process. But I'm not
concerned about the experience simply because if JJ's got the talent,
he's got the talent, and they're going to anchor him
with experienced NBA coaches that will help him navigate the
eighty two game regular season, And honestly, like it's really
just going to be about like a collaborative effort between
(35:30):
Lebron James and JJ Reddick to kind of identify what
the strengths and weaknesses of the roster are and go
from there. It's really hard, honestly, Colin, I wonder what
it's like for you cover in the NFL too, Like
it's really difficult with coaches, especially new coaches. We're not
there for the interviews. Like with a player, I can
go look at tape and I can get a really
(35:50):
good feel for what he's good and bad at. But
like with JJ, it's like, well, what's his philosophy going
to be? What are his core his core principles that
he's going to be the team on, Like what is
is he going to continue the five out offense they
were running out of dar with Darvin Hamm Are they
going to run something different? Are they going to do
something different defensively? It's so hard to say because we're
not in the room for those interviews. But if JJ
(36:12):
interviews well and they give him good assistant coaches and
he's got the talent for it, I absolutely think it
could work well.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I mean, Duke Kid, you know, you listen to the podcast,
he's you know, he's a thoughtful guy to me, you know,
it's experience is funny. You know, it's creating the volume
or working for years at ESPN or Fox Sports. You know,
people managers have come to me and said, hey, listen
(36:39):
to a tape or what do you make of this guy?
And my take is, if you've never done network, who cares,
Like we listened to your tape and we're like, yeah,
he's ready to go. Okay, I don't. You didn't have
to be somewhere. We thought you would be here, So
it's you know, it's Jerry Seinfeld was speaking at Duke.
He had a commencement speech. He had a great line.
(37:00):
He said, having stuff is nice, becoming stuff. Having stuff
is nice, Becoming something is really more important, and becoming
something is missus. It swings. It's an ascension. In every
job I've ever had, I was a little over my
(37:20):
skis for the first like six to eight weeks, like
I'm bailing water here, I'm trying to catch I've had
a friend once that got a job at Google and
she was like I literally six weeks in, I'm like, oh,
I'm dumb, and this is a full of smart people.
I'm too dumb to work at Google and she goes
then the light goes on. You start clicking, and then
like six months into it, you're like okay, but it's
(37:42):
like it's okay. Darvin Ham learned on the job. If
you're smart in any industry, you'll figure it out. Like
a lot of this stuff with coaching is like I
heard Frank Vogel, you know, some complex defensive stuff. Beal
didn't really buy in. Booker was close to an assistant coach,
(38:03):
much closer than he was Vogel. Kevin was fine, but
Kevin's Kevin at this point, and it was like Vogel
just didn't He didn't resonate with all the guys in
the room. JJ Redick, if Lebron buys him, we'll resonate
with everybody in the room. So my take is you
start somewhere. If you get Lebron, there is some credibility,
like with Jason Kidd, Like there is credibility player to
(38:25):
player that JJ has, And I think it's kind of
unspoken but kind of the middle aged, you know, guy
that didn't play. I always think you go into a
locker room and about half the room is like if
the star doesn't buy into it, half the room's not
buying into it. Maybe that's cynical, but I think everybody
would buy into JJ. Reddick.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, it's it's like Mike and Nory from the Timberwolves
are I can't remember his name, that assistant from the
Celtics who just got signed by the Charlotte Hornets. It's like,
if you bring in an assistant, it doesn't matter how
much he's been grinding in the film room, doesn't matter
how much he impressed the previous organization. He's got to
be able to look at Broun and be like, hey man,
I need you to do this, and Lebron's got to
be like, okay, you know. And not only that, but
I'll hold the rest of the team accountable to help
(39:06):
them along the way. And so there, I do agree
that's the gravitas piece. And by the way, that's why
they hired Darvin Ham. They thought Darvin Ham would be
able to bring some of that, like real gravitas to
the situation. The thing with JJ is you got to
acknowledge the risk because you're right, Like they let Darvin
Ham learn on the fly and he didn't really start
making huge mistakes until this season. With the roster and
when he was like leaning into cameradis we've gone over it,
(39:29):
but like he made too many mistakes and then the
Lakers had a situation where they looked at the urgency
of their situation and said, we have to make a move.
And so I just I just hope that the Lakers'
front office and ownership understands that if you do take JJ,
there is a risk. And even though I believe he
could do this well, especially with good experienced staff behind him,
(39:49):
anytime you go for a first time head coach, there's
a like what if he's just really bad at in
game adjustments, what if he's just really bad, Like we
don't know what it's going to be, Like we're going
to find out over time. And so that's where like
the let's say the alternative, Let's say they were to
get like a Kenny Atkinson for instance, Like Kenny Atkinson
is more of a known commodity. He might be a
higher floor, but like maybe you don't get some of
(40:10):
the upside you get if you get a freaked out
to your point, Steve Kerr, like Steve Kerr is regarded
as one of the best coaches in the league. I
think he's the second best coach in the league behind
Eric Spolstra. Like that was a risk signing Steve Cree.
By the way, Steve Kerr was radical. He came into
a Mark Jackson led team that was spam and pick
and roll, and he said, Hey, Steph Curry, we're taking
the ball out of your hands. We're gonna lead the
(40:31):
league in passes. We're going to run this motion ball
in player movement offense. And I'm sure there were moments
in training camp where it looked ugly, and I'm sure
there were moments where the front office was looking down like, ugh,
this is weird, you know, like we just went you know,
two great playoff runs in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, just
having Steph run spread pick and roll, so like this
is funky, But then it works and now Steve Kerr
(40:52):
is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league.
So like, there's upside to going with the JJ, but
there's also a risk. And so for me, I'm okay
with that risk because I don't really think there's any
candidate out there that's a home run anyway, right, So
I think there's risk all around to begin with.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Because the league is so player driven, you have to
be more patient. Like you know, in football, it's really
owner coach gm driven. So there's no excuse for a
coach to say, you know, I can't get the room.
I can't get the room. Just cut guys. If you
can't get the room, you're never going to be a
good coach in the NFL, in the NBA international soccer,
(41:38):
where you have these Rinaldo's and Lebron's that are literally,
I mean, they're almost above the sport. They're these iconic figures,
it is harder to get that attention. It is harder
to get the buy in you hopefully get a Tim
Duncan or you know, I mean, I think sometimes we
forget that Phil Jackson had replaced Doug Collins. Michael liked Doug.
(42:02):
Doug's really intense and there was some combative nature to
his personality, but Doug Collins and Michael mostly worked. That
was the first time Michael got real buy in from Doug,
and he got real buy in from Phil. Phil's considered,
you know, the zen master, the better coach, but part
of its buy in. But I think Lebron has to
(42:25):
also acknowledge, you know, when Michael was in a prime
for both Collins and Phil like Lebron's not there anymore.
And I do think when he was completely unselfish for
the fifteen years in his prime, he could have scored
twelve to fifteen points more every game he played in
Now he can be a little He looks for soft
(42:45):
spots in the defense, that he can manipulate smaller players,
that he can drive to the basket on you've talked
about this is that I think Lebron gets a little
selfish now where it's more about legacy and production. Is
that I think it's time to step back. I'm not
denying he's a top six player in any night, but
(43:06):
it does feel like a little bit with Lebron he's
gotten a little selfish where it's like it's okay to
acknowledge is you can't literally even if you're great, you're
not guaranteeing anything in this league. This is the West,
it's packed. You could be a playing team. And I
know you know Lebron better than anybody his game, but
(43:27):
I do feel like with Lebron he's a little more
of a taker than a giver now. In turn, not
just not just assists, but he's seeking play he's seeking
production sometimes to maintain and I think it's time to
step back. I think he should be a two on
a team.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
I know, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, this
was actually kind of a little bit of a subplot
over the last two seasons, more so last year than
this year because Lebron was so good this season. But
like the record, I don't really I don't think it's legacy.
I think it's confidence. Like I think Lebron still thinks
he's the guy, you know, and so I think a
lot of times like Lebron confronts a basketball problem, like, Okay,
(44:12):
we're in this slow down basketball game. I need to
get something going for my team offensively. That means give
me the ball and then I'm gonna, you know, play
basketball surgeon, you know, bring this guy up. I'm gonna
get a switch. I'm going to attack this smaller player. Oh,
I want to pick on Jokichen pick and roll. So
we're gonna bring Anthony Davis up to the screen. But
one of the things that I noticed over the course
the last couple of years is Lebron almost confronted every
(44:34):
basketball problem with him having the ball in his hands, right,
and there is something to be said about like, even
though Lebron on the ball is still a very effective
form of offense, it's not the same as it used
to be. And you know, specifically with Anthony Davis, I
actually do think that Lebron would benefit from leaning more
on Anthony Davis offensively over the course of the season.
(44:57):
One to build up Anthony Davis's confidence so that when
they get into some of these situations where they need
to lean on a like perfect example of this was
was Game two against Denver when they blew the twenty
point lead. It was Lebron and a D were picking
on Nicole jokicchen ball screens, and then Michael Lane made
a very smart adjustment. He moved Aaron Gordon onto Anthony
(45:19):
Davis so that they could switch the Lebron ad pick
and roll. And then Lebron instead of going, hey, Aaron
Gordon's on a D. Let me just keep beating a
D against Aaron Gordon. Instead he thought, I can beat
jokicen ball screens because I'm Lebron. So now I'm going
to bring Ruey up to the screen because Jokic is
(45:40):
guarding Ruie, and I'll start to pick on Jokic and
the Laker offense fell apart, and so like, I don't
I think Lebron made the bad read because he was thinking,
I'm Lebron James, but it's not on Lebron James. I'm
thirty nine year old Lebron James. So maybe I should
go to this other guy who made fourteen straight shot
earlier in the game, Like, maybe I should go to
(46:01):
him instead, And so I think you're right, Like I
think in general, and this is something I think that
the Lakers from an organizational standpoint hiring a coach and
as they approach this offseason, they need to actually give
a clear ball handling option that's not Lebron, so that
Lebron doesn't have to feel like he needs to approach
every problem by him playing Lebron ball out above the
(46:24):
break and the big guy that I'm looking at, and
I really I want them to go after de Jontay Murray.
I don't know if he saw today, but in the
draft lottery, the Hawks got the number one overall n yeah,
which which is which is super interesting because like I
would imagine they're going to look at that as let's
rebuild around Trey Young and Jalen Johnson, and so I
think they I think they'll probably look to move to
Jontay Murray this summer. And he's one of those guys
(46:45):
where like Desonte was really good in the play in
games and really good down the stretch of the season.
He can really beat people off the dribble. He's an
excellent point of attack defender. That's the kind of guy
where like you can actually put yourself in a situation
where you have a like because as good as Austin
Reeves is, you kind of own you want to lean
on him. It's better that he can go on spurts.
You don't want to lean on him for big doses.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I saw if you look at de Jonte Murray's numbers
when Trey Young didn't play, like it's it's a little
Jalen Brunson without Luca. Oh yeah, you're like, oh, oh no,
he could be a one and a bad team or
a top I mean like, when Trey Young didn't play,
there were like thirty percent elevation and assists twenty five percent.
Like I don't remember the exact numbers, but I did
(47:26):
a rant on this and I was like, I mean,
you watch him, he's obviously explosive. You can see that.
But it's like we did this with Brunson. You know,
you're like, well, he's kind of a two to Tray,
and it's like, no, maybe they're two ones. The numbers.
When Trey doesn't play, Dejonte's numbers move up and his
efficiency gets better. So that's an interesting one to me.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, to put it simply, the Luca Trey, like heliocentric,
do everything player, it is difficult to be the number
two for that guy. We can at least admit that.
If anything, it's like a testament to Kyrie, Like Kyrie's
the kind of guy like in Game three are Game
two who can score eight points and still dominate the
game as an excellent defensive player and passer and all
that kind of stuff, but like it is difficult to
(48:09):
be in that role. And de Jontay Murray in particular,
like he's a guy that like he can really dance
with the ball, beat people off the dribble and make
stuff happen, and so like if he's and what you
know what no one ever said about de Jontay Murray
is he's Klay Thompson. Like he's not going to stand
out on the wing and just shoot, catch and shoot
threes all game and so like it. Actually, it actually
makes a lot of sense. I actually look at that
as if I was the Lakers this summer, I'd look
(48:31):
two routes through the trade. I'd look for de Jontay
Murray through free agency, because they'll have their mid level
exception that they can use every year. I would target
a real center, like an actual big center that can
play next to Lebron James and Anthony Davis and give
them a big look. I think if they do that
and Jared Vanderbilt gets healthy, they all of a sudden
(48:53):
become a much more physically imposing team with a lot
more ball handling because of de Jontay Murray. Like, I
actually think that there's a a if they nail this
summer and the head coach hire works out, I think
there's a small opportunity for them to do some damage
next year. But but yeah, like I uh, the JJ
Redick piece, I really do think that there's It's just
(49:14):
as good as any other option out there. It's not
like there's some slam dunk home run option, and so
I kind of think as long as he nails the interviews,
and they put the right staff around him. It could work.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Jason Temp hoops tonight as always, great stuff, Bud.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
It's good to see a man looking forward to next
week the volume.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review
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