Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, he’s joined by Jason Timp, host of “Hoops Tonight” to put a bow on the NBA finals and discuss why Dallas really isn’t that CLOSE to winning a title (4:00), how the 2024 Boston Celtics team led by Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown will be remembered (8:30) and what teams to watch out for in 2025 (14:00)
Next, Colin is joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1 to talk about the utter mismanagement of the Lakers organization the past decade (23:00) and why Caitlin Clark is the most important player in WNBA history from a business perspective (31:00).
Finally, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down Colin’s quarterback “bubble”... and identify the guys that can win a title based on their talent or the size of their contract (51:00) which is bad news for one NFC North quarterback. They also list their most undervalued (57:00) and overvalued NFL teams (01:03:00).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Speaker 1 (01:41):
The other thing we have to admit, Jason, is because
of Luca's ball usage. I felt like he wasn't healthy
for the last two series. He looked, he looked fatigued,
he looked beat up. So again, when when Kyrie's not delivering,
it becomes very Luca dominant, I thought, he looked. I
thought you were getting about eighty percent of Luca in
(02:03):
this finals, and and some of that's just when you're
the guy and it's little Jalen Brunson It's like Jalen's great,
but there are limitations to you know, when Jalen went
on that forty point run, You're like, this isn't gonna
end well, Like he's just you can't. You can't be
that dominant. You have to be able to you know.
And that's why the Celtics work is that Tatum wasn't
(02:24):
good in the first two games. He and Brown were
both good. In Game three tonight, Tatum was superior. I mean,
there were Knights that Derek White, I mean presser before
the half, like it's symphonic watching Boston. They're just handing
the baton off man Luca. He had that baton out
multiple times and nobody grabbed it, and I thought he
(02:46):
looked And that's I agree with you. Oka sees only
getting better. Denver's already favored. Boston's not getting significantly worse
six percent. And by the way, keep your on what
Houston's doing. They had a strips this year. You're like, oh, yeah,
they're probably a veteran away. So listen, we've seen this before.
(03:08):
It's like in the NFL, the loser of the Super Bowl,
like most of the time doesn't farewell. Like this felt
like a magical moment in time for Dallas. But there's
some real flaws here. We would both acknowledge that it
is too Luca dependent. That's what it feels. It does
feel like that Cavs team that was really very Lebron
(03:29):
dependent played with great energy. If you remember Zill Goscas,
I mean, they played with tremendous energy. Lebron was captivating,
they had streaky shooters on the wing. But then you
watch them against San Antonio and you're like, all right,
they you know, five of the best six players are
all Spurs. And that's how I felt in this series.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
One of the things that I find fascinating and I'm
actually curious to get your take on this, Like one
of the things that is hard to do in a
situation like this after you have a successful postseason run
is to be realistic about how far you are away. So,
for instance, Lakers fans last year, it's like we made
the Western Conference finals and I'm like, okay, Well, like
(04:08):
Golden State has always struggled against big athletic teams, that
was a pretty favorable matchup for you. And then also
that Memphis team, young John Morant driving into Anthony Davis,
all series was obviously not going to work. So it's
like you got a couple of favorable matchups, then you
ran into a real championship level team in Denver and
you got your ass kicked. So you're not close, right, right,
(04:31):
So when I look at the Dallas piece, this is
what I think about, Like when the circumstances are favorable,
meaning like when Luca has obvious mismatches, he can pick
at the entire series, and then on the other end
of the floor, when they can really load up the
strong side and keep their rim protectors at the rim
and hide Luca on the opposite end of the floor,
they can get stops. But where I get concerned is
(04:54):
how many times in NBA history have we seen a
team led by two stars that are both at least
combining for two bad defensive players that go win the title.
It's exceedingly rare, and so yeah, one of the things
that I wonder I shouldn't say exceedingly rat can't.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Think of one.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's never happened like.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I would say.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I would even say, like the case would be, oh
what about Jamal Murray, Nicola Jokic, which I understand, But
the flip side there is like even the two of
them were not this type of like like Jokis was
a dominant defensive rebounder who could actually do some stuff
in pick and roll coverages defensively, and Jamal Murray did
his job, and he's bigger. Jamal Murray's bigger than Kyrie.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
They also had an elite defender right off that in Gordon,
So they had yeah, I mean they they accentuated like
you know, it's like the Mavericks or like the Warriors.
They hid steph Igwoodala Clay. So you can get away
with your star not being an elite defender, but you
have to have elements. You have to have size, Jokic, athleticism,
(05:52):
Gordon like that. That's not what this Dallas team is.
It's it's their two stars are Luca Is disengaged lot defensively.
Let's go back to the Celtics, very deserving. Don't forget
they had a dominant record. They lost to Denver, but
they had a dominant record against the West, even more
dominating against the East. Flushed through the Eastern Conference playoffs
(06:16):
and the finals. So you know there are these teams
too that you know, we're so used to dynasties in
the NBA. I was talking to Chris bruce Hard today.
We were talking about teams that won a championship that
weren't a dynasty, but they were great teams. And one
of the first ones was the Jerry West, Gail Goodrich,
Wilt Chamberlain. Remember that thirty three game winning streak Laker
(06:39):
team that I think beat the Knicks and won a championship. Now,
they didn't reel off a lot of them, but in
a singular season that was an older Wilt. That's one
of the greatest teams of all time. There was a
seventy six Ers team that had Moses Malone joined Julius
Irving and they were kind of missing a dominating interior
(06:59):
scoring presence and for a year or two, Jesus, I
remember those Sixers well, like Malone was. It's just hard
to exp Moses Malone. If you ever saw him play,
nobody discusses him. He was as dominating a rebounder as
I've ever seen in the history of basketball, with doctor
J and good guard play. And I think Boston falls
(07:20):
into that group. So right now, like we thought Denver
was gonna run off two or three Boston in a
single season like that, West good Rich Will team or
the Moses Malone Doctor j T for a season lightning
in a bottle health spectacular. You know, just just flush
through the playoffs. The question will become they will play
(07:43):
with a champion swagger next year. They probably won't be
as relentless in the regular season. This is, you know,
kind of predictable. They'll they'll be you know, they'll have
their little swoons and won't be. But I do think
there's a chance it's a back to back championship because
cross your fingers on poor Zingis's health. You know they're
bringing the guys back. You'll play with more confidence. Tatum
(08:05):
comes into a season like, Okay, I got it, I
got my money, I got my title. I think it
does take pressure. I think it was building you and
I said this this was Celtics had to win this
after that Warriors Final where they came home and kind
of laid an egg emotionally. They had to play well
in this series. I thought by second quarter game too,
(08:26):
it was like this is a mismatch. But I think
next year you'll see this goes down to me is
a in moment in time, A great team in a
great moment, too good not to win a championship, but
at times too weird to be a dynasty. I mean,
Jalen Brown wins the MVP and he averaged twenty a game.
You didn't neverge thirty, you didn't neverage twenty eight. He
(08:48):
averaged twenty twenty one a game and was the MVP
for the second straight series. So historically, can we acknowledge
they're a little bit of an odd eight team?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're They're absolutely weird.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I mean, like when we think about the when we
list the all time great teams in NBA history, we
think like twenty seventeen Warriors, twenty thirteen he you know,
teams like the the two thousand and one Lakers, the
nineteen ninety six Bowls, right, the nineteen eighty six Celtics,
like the nineteen eighty seven Lakers. We think of these
teams and every single one of them is led by
(09:28):
one of the five best team players in NBA history.
In my opinion, Steph Curry is the fifth best perimeter
player that's played since nineteen eighty Like, I think he's
right up there with Bird and Magic in that tier.
So like these it's just funky to see a team
that is as dominant as the Celtics have been. But
I think one of the things too, is this kind
(09:49):
of stuff bears out in time, Like you know what
Celtics fans, they're gonna want a certain amount of like
the credit for being dominant, and like here's the thing,
like you beat the you beat the cas the Heat
without Jimmy Butler, the Pacers and the Maps. So like
like I'm not trying to like, but one of the
things with NBA history because like people said this about
(10:09):
the Nuggets last year, and I thought the Nuggets run
was a little underrated because they went through Lebron and
Ad and they went through Kadi and Devin Booker, and
they went through Jimmy Butler and.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Bam Ata Bio.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Like I actually thought that Nuggets team, yeah, played some
tough opponents, but like everyone was like, oh, Denver had
an easier path. Well guess what happened this year. They
had to play a really tough team in the second round.
They lost. So yeah, NBA history has a chance has
a kind of like a habit of working these sorts
of things out. Like next year they're probably going to
have to play a Milwaukee in a playoff series, or
(10:38):
a healthy Knicks team or a team like Denver out
of the Western Conference, or maybe what if Ooklahoma City
makes some big trade this summer and they end up
going to the finals and it ends up like NBA
history is a kind of a habit of working these
things out. Everything about how this team is remembered is
going to be about the big picture. So, for instance,
they lose, if they lose next next year, you're gonna
(11:01):
zoom out on a three year window here, and you're
gonna be like, embarrassing loss against the Heat in the
conference finals, beat four mediocre teams, then lost the following year.
People will write the story of that Celtics team as
an underachieving, overly talented team. But if they go out
next year and they beat better teams on their way
to the Larry O'Brien, people will zoom out and be like,
(11:21):
this is an all time great team. So like that's
the thing, Like you're gonna get another crack at the
table next year. It's like Jason Tatum said, gotta do
it again next year. Go ahead, do it and it'll
shut everybody up. Like these things get worked out with wins.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I think a team to keep your eye on is
the Knicks. I think one of the great things if
you're a Knicks fan, because they don't match up from
an offensive perspective. They just don't have They don't have
that many guys that can catch it and shoot it
and ball handle in pass. One of the things that's
great about the Celtics winning if you're a Knicks fan,
it does force you some urgency.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
We can't make us a tweak. We're not a tweak
away from beating Boston. Like we got to go out
and get guys like Michale Bridges and another score. Boston
really puts pressure on Eastern teams. It's one thing if
you if you're a Western team and you lose to
Boston in the finals. You got to the finals, but
you're you're not getting past Boston in New York with
(12:20):
a tweak. You're just not you know, even Miami Bam
and Butler. You know, Butler will probably be banged up
by the time. You know, if he if he's a
Miami Heat, they need another not Tyler hero, they need
another player. So it's this is the good thing. If
you're a Miami fan, or a Knicks fan, or a
(12:41):
Sixers fan, this is like, guys, this wasn't competitive like this.
They just I mean, how many blowouts they had, like
thirteen blowout wins. It's like tweaking is not beating Nobody
in the East has Jokic. Okay, you don't have Yokic,
so Tweaking's not gonna do it. And I think that's
(13:03):
that's sort of the advantages. I say this in sports
all the time. The great thing about harbaught Michigan. For
a Buckeye fan, it puts pressure on going and getting
Chip Kelly as an offensive coordinator. It's like they're throwing,
They're pushing us around three years in a row. You
want your rival to be viable because it puts pressure
on your owner and your front office. And so I'm
watching this game tonight and I'm thinking, if I'm a
(13:24):
Knicks fan, you may hate Boston, but your front office,
these are smart people now in New York running that franchise.
You got to bring the McHale Bridges on and another
guy that can drop twenty Devivingenzo's become a great catch
and shoot. Guy Brunston's going to give you twenty eight.
McHale Bridges could give you twenty four and I've got
(13:44):
to get somebody better than Mitchell Robinson in the post
that can give me offense. So it's that's the upside
for the Eastern Conference teams is I think Darryl Morey,
the Knicks, you know, Indiana, if they can get somebody
that the pressure's on. You got to add multiple pieces
over the next couple years to beat these guys.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
And aggression is going to be the key because again,
like how did Boston do this. They did this by
trading for Drew Holliday and Chrisops Porzinkis, Like Brad Stevens
just hit two massive home runs. I went back and
looked at that trade and saw that they ended up
like netting two first round picks in the Porzingis trade,
and I'm like, ah, man, like anybody could have had him,
and then Boston went and got him. And then you know,
like even looking at Denver, it's like they went and
(14:23):
got KCP, they went and got Aaron Gordon, Like those
are two like slam dunk moves to surround Jamal Murray,
Michael Porter Junior, and Nicole Jokic. They just there. That
aggression is the big piece there. Even going back to
twenty twenty one, they won after they traded for Drew Holliday.
The Bucks did they traded for Drew Holliday, They went
and they won the title. And so like, keep an
eye on those aggressive teams this summer, the teams that
(14:45):
add talent. There are a lot of young teams in
the NBA right now that are like this close to
becoming great. That Thunder team, that Orlando Magic team is
probably like two years away, but they're gonna be really
really good. You mentioned the Pacers. If they if they
make maybe one more edition this offseason, they could be
in the mix. The Knicks are obviously gonna be aggressive.
I mentioned Memphis earlier. Like Memphis, this kid Gigi Jackson
(15:09):
that they have on the wing is awesome that they
discovered this year. He like slots perfectly between Jamrant Desmond Bain.
They're gonna have Jaron Jackson coming back. They're gonna have
a big look. They're gonna go get a center, and
they're gonna have a massive frontline that could contend with Denver.
As long as Jamranc can like stay healthy and available
for his team, I think they could be really good.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Like the league is just.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Like this Celtics team is kind of settling right in
this nice little opening here where all the older teams
are kind of falling apart and all the younger teams
are not quite there yet and they're having a lot
of success as a result.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
All right, it's my buddy Nick, right, So you know
I was thinking about this is the Lakers still haven't
named a coach and they're just a mess.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You could argue, would you let Rob Linka run the volume?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well, no, because it's a different business, I would not. No, No, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
He's one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
No, but he's one of those guys that's really a
good looking guy with a lot of confidence and bright
and I get you a long way in life.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And great relationships. Great, that's a the good looking, smart
and friends, you know, good with good at cocktail parties,
social that it is that those are a lot of
skeleton keys to life. That is true. That that is true.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Go ahead, and I think, and it's not a knock
on Rob, but he's good looking, social relationships and and
and bright enough and it just works. And then in
a weird way, the worst thing that could have happened
to the Lakers is Lebron coming because Lebron has done
this for franchises his whole career, or except Miami. Remember
(17:02):
that thing you used to use when we used typewriters
called white out. Yeah, you'd make a mistake and you
could wipe it out. Lebron's like that for basketball franchises,
shitty gms, average coaches. Lebron just wins championships like he
just even more than Michael, who needed Pippin, who needed Phil.
Lebron got every coach to the finals. It doesn't matter,
(17:24):
and so he's the great eraser. Is that people forget
how bad the Lakers were for a long stretch pre
Lebron six years. Yeah, and then Lebron comes. They went
in the Bubble, which was a weird year, and people
forget how mostly bad they've been with Lebron. Take the
(17:46):
Bubble year out. I mean that's the year Harball's team
was terrible and Belichick's was terrible. Like that year was.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Can I just say something real quick, because I have
to defend the Bubble before any of us had ever
heard the word coronavirus. The Lakers have the best record
in the NBA. So I am so I think that
team was. It was the last year we ever had
Lebron before he suffered his first significant injury of his career,
(18:19):
the Solomon Hill thinking of his ankle, Anthony Davis the
best we ever saw him. So I do think that
was the best team in basketball under any circumstances. But
that doesn't change your point. The point is ten.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Days had ten years, one fifty one season, and they
will go into this season. Then on any night where
Lebron or a d and this will happen often in
the regular season, take a night off. Austin Reeves is
your second best player. He does not start for Boston,
nor do I think he starts for Denver, and I'm
(18:52):
not sure he starts for Oklahoma City. That Lebron were
conning to the Lakers, Yeah, Lebron coming to the Lakers
got you a COVID Bubble title for a franchise with
twelve Who gives a shit In the end, it has
masked a like twelve year eleven to twelve year run
(19:14):
of large incompetency or suboptimal guidance upstirs. So again, the.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I think they I think that title's as legitimate as anyone,
but I don't think it changes your point, which is
they have in both the Tatum and Brown drafts. They
had the pick before Tatum and Brown. They had the
(19:46):
number two pick both years. It took Lonzo and Ingram.
And by the way, I have tweets out they're saying
I liked Lonzo more than I like Tatum. I miss
that and people here's the thing on that people are
people often say, oh, well, you had that wrong too, Guys.
It's not my own my I have a lot of
things I'm looking at. Figuring out the single best draft
(20:10):
pick for the Lakers is not literally my only job.
So to compare my how I would have done as
Lakers GM went in that by that same metric, I
am the GM of thirty NBA teams, thirty two NFL teams,
a couple baseball teams, and doing other things. It's nonsense. Yes,
I would have gotten it wrong to the Lakers job
to get it right. There's that. There is the fact
that they either were too cheap or incompetent to keep
(20:34):
Alex Caruso. They ever Lebron wanted, no question, Lebron wanted
Russell Westbrook, but Lebron wanted Kyrie Irving, and they found
a way to say no to that. Lebron wanted Tyleru.
They found a way to say no to that. They
said yes to Russell Westbrook because they wanted him to
because they're about stars. And then they mortified themselves with
(20:58):
this coaching search. This is horrifying, man, horrifying. Danny Hurley
told you he was to the point where he's talking
to Lebron and the Lake. The Detroit Pistons are willing
to pay Many Williams more money to not coach them,
(21:23):
then the Lakers were willing to offer Danny Hurley to
coach them. It's not They're not as serious. They are
a family business that is being run by Linda Rambis,
Kurt Rambis, Kobe's former agent, Rob Blenka, and Genie Buss.
(21:46):
And the only this is what frustrates me so much
about because there's still a contingent of Laker fans that
are really Kobe fans that are hostile towards Lebron. The
only reason this team has not been in the wilderness since.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, the first term of the Obama administration.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That's right, that's right, is Lebron that's decided he wanted
to live in la not even Oh, you had built
a fun team that made since Nope, I want to
live in Los Angeles, find the cap space, all do
the rest. I will get us Anthony Davis, and we'll
(22:36):
instantly win a title. And then so I just I don't.
I don't think you could squander a situation more readily
than the Lakers have as an organization. And they man,
they fired Darvinham seven weeks ago, seven weeks ago, and.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
They didn't have an answer. Why would you ever fire somebody.
If a company fired me, I can assure you they'd
have a plan. Lakers have no plan, no plan what?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And the the Danny Hurley thing was e like, this
is where I've said this to you four or I'll
say it again. One of my favorite lines from an
all time movie, Casino, when de Niro is on the
casino floor with the state assemblyman's nephew or whatever, the
(23:33):
cowboy that had the job they didn't deserve and there
had been three slot jackpots in a row, and de
Niro's losing his mind because it was a scam. He
says to him, he says, you're fired, and the guy's like,
I'm fired. He's like, you're hefing fired. He's like, I'm fired.
He's like, yeah, you're fired because either you were in
(23:54):
on it or you were too dumb to know you
were being scammed. Either way, you gotta go. That's how
I feel about the Danny Hurley situation. There are two
doors you can walk through on that. Either you never
actually intended to hire him and you thought having that
(24:16):
story out there would be good pr and soften the
blow of eventually hiring JJ Reddick, or you really did
want to hire him and you thought eleven million dollars
a year was gonna get it done. So either you
(24:36):
were trying to run a scam on your fan base
or you were too incompetent to get your guy. Either way,
you're unqualified. You are unqualified, And I don't think this
is why I brought up blink up. That is in
a lot of industries, man, that is a fireable offense.
(24:56):
Oh yeah, if somebody, if you have say, I'm not
going to compare you to Darbnham, that's unfair. But if
if you if someone, if you get if you get
fired and the company's like trust us and then publicly,
(25:17):
very publicly goes after someone that everybody thinks, oh well
that would be great. Oh they're getting costas I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I'm just making yes.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Whatever it is. And then that person says, nah, don't
want it, and the next day does seven radio shows
telling everyone about why he didn't take the job and
makes a fool of you. That person who screwed that
up usually is held to account, and instead we're just
(25:51):
left with they had a good meeting with JJ Reddick, Like,
give me a break, you're the Los Angeles Lakers crazy.
It's mortifying. It's mortifying, man.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I think it's an amazing time. I think something is
happening in television, in media, in sports that's really really fascinating.
Is that because basically television now, the platform of television
may be shrinking, but it's all sports. I've told you
this before. If TikTok banned everything except cooking and culinary
(26:30):
stuff on TikTok and it lost seventy percent of its audience,
it would be great for culinary because it would be
the only thing on TikTok. You don't have to own
a platform. If you're the only thing on the platform,
it's powerful. And I think a lot of media critics say, oh,
cable TV is losing its audience. The only thing that
works on TV today, the only thing is sports in
(26:52):
every four years politics, So television now is just Fox
has said on Fridays we're doing sports. Weekends were sports,
We're going to Fridays. In fact, if they had the
Amazon Thursday Games, I think Fox would say Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
We're a sports network, three days a primetime nonsports. And
so I think what's one of the things that's interesting
(27:15):
is that the explosion Caitlin Clark is clearly a catalyst
for a business that was and let's be honest, Whereas
Tiger and Connor McGregor elevated their sports, Caitlyn to some degree,
Caitlin to some degree financially saved the WNBA. It was
hemorrhaging money for years.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
So that so let me can I just before you
get to your point. So I think that people have
a hard time saying that or accepting that both of
these things can be true. It is good and I
(27:52):
think worthwhile, and I'm glad that pre Caitlin Clark there
was a women's profession basketball league in America that was
treated as a big time league and deserved to be.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Okay, that's act that is true, and in terms of
basketball annually.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Absolutely. Here's what's also true. There is proof of concept
overseas that women's basketball can be profitable. That's why for
Britney Griner, you know, ended up in prison, was because
a lot of these women go overseas make a lot
more money. And that's not charity. They're not getting paid
(28:32):
out of charity. They're because those those leagues in those
countries have found ways to monetize it in a way
the WNBA hadn't. The WNBA was not well run. Flatly,
they they had a product that could be monetized in
a way that it was not. I'm not saying the
(28:55):
teams weren't well run. I'm saying the league as far
as whoever was in chards of generating revenue, there was.
But the fact of the matter is whosever fault it was.
It was a league that as a business was not
a highly successful one at all. It's why you could
get a I think you could get a franchise for
(29:18):
fifty million, Well you know the is the franchise fee
like it? So it is it can be true that
it was it had the potential, as being proven right now,
to potentially be a super valuable business. But was not
being treated or run as such, and I think that
(29:38):
was an oversight maybe by the upper echelon of leadership.
And now with Caitlin, they have no choice but to
adapt and evolve because there's gonna be money pouring in
because there's so many more eyeballs on it now.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
But as I was thinking about this is that there's
always been this gap. I tend to think of my
show are shows in terms of, you know, like almost
color coded, like red hot is Labor Day until February
twenty third, right, and then it cools down. It's an
(30:15):
orange a hue for NFL free agency, March Madness was
pretty good. I thought that college basketball had a good year,
women helping with that, and then the draft and that's
like orange, and then it goes back to a little
stronger orange for the NBA playoffs. Then it's blue. It's cool,
like we got two muchs cool. And I will say that,
(30:37):
you know, every four years World Cups, the Copas Euros,
those are very good for Fox. Those getting the good numbers,
they're fascinating. But I will say this selfishly, is that
the WNBA has become on a fairly regular basis, it
will fill a segment every day on my show, and
I'm not doing it because I don't talk hockey much.
I'm not doing it as a reach. And I was
(30:59):
thinking about that, how people get famous. Some people get
famous on art. Mister Rogers got famous on decency. Some
people get famous or infamous on controversy, accidental or as
a law provocateur. In that, not only is Caitlin Clark
(31:19):
a catalyst, but the racial component and the underdog being
picked on as a component. And it's a little like golf,
where a very insular country club, predominantly white, wealthy sport
had this profoundly popular, historically fantastic player and that was
(31:42):
part of the Tiger story. He was new on many levels.
And I do think, and I'm not saying there is
a racial component to the WNBA, but every business needs
a catalyst, and every business there explosion is different. Some
it's controversy, some it's and so I'll use it is good.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
So I think the Caitlin and the physicality, I look
at it and I think, hey, just look at the
WNBA as an American business. It is an American business,
and their catalyst is an underdog from Middle America. And
there's a racial component. That is a story one hundred
(32:27):
years old in America.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
It could be.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
There's a million businesses where that has been the case.
The sports one that there's a little correlation is Tiger,
although Tiger was profoundly dominant very early.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah. So the yeah, I don't. The only part of
that is I don't necessarily I think the media, some
media is treating Caitlin as more of an underdog than
she actually is. I don't think you were as an
underdog as much as I viewer as just a rookie
who is going through, you know, rookie growing pains, ebbs
and flows, but as.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
A really good player.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
But he is a really good player. You were talking
about the way it doesn't I'm going to use a
maybe unfortunate example. I'll use it as far as it
doesn't really matter why you get famous, it matters what
you do with it. Yeah, And I think maybe the
perfect example of that is Kim Kardashian. So, Kim Kardashian
(33:25):
was semi famous, a little famous, and then became uber
famous momentarily because of a sex tape, flatly, and what
did she do with it? Created a multi billion dollar
business based off her skill talent and beauty. Flatly, she
has one of the longest running hit television shows. She
(33:46):
has you know more, I don't you know a clothing
line or makeup line. I'm not all the way up
to date on everything the Kardashians are doing. But she
took that spark and turned it into a forest fire.
And that is what I'm hoping the WNBA can do
with this. You have Caitlin is the spark. The rivalry
(34:10):
which dates back to college with Angel Reese is real
gas on that spark. The times absurd media attention is
turning it into a real fire that at times the
wrong things are being focused on, and it's and to
go back to our bad actors on the internet stuff.
(34:31):
There's a lot of grossness surrounded with it. But even
if it's just by accident, there are a lot more
eyeballs on this league enough so everyone in the sports
world today was aware. Oh man, Cameron Brink tore ACL yesterday. Yeah,
(34:52):
like that sucks. Think about that. Two years ago, there
was no if if the number if the third most
famous w NBA rookie got hurt mid season. It's not
like one of the biggest things that happened I'm in
(35:12):
the sports world that day. From an attention standpoint, people
now care, and I that sounded wrong. I know a
lot some people care, but it has a relevance that
it's a zeitgeist effect, that it happened before there are
(35:33):
it is a bigger tint there, or it's the same
sized tint and more people are crowding in. And some
of those people are real assholes, and I kind of
wish they would leave, but they're here too, and so
I so I agree with you. It's how I forever
because I love tennis. I was hoping, like, man, can
(35:54):
someone in the Big three tennis become like controversial or
that where America cares because I would love to have
some Nadal Federer Djokovic seven years ago discussions, But my
audience didn't care enough. So on the podcast, I do
Nick's tennis corner during the Majors, and that's it because
(36:15):
I respect what the audience wants. But Colin, I was
on your TV show for twenty minutes on the Tuesday
after the NBA Finals rapped, and we spent as much
time on Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees as we did
on Game five of the finals, and it was a
(36:36):
smart programming decision because people have takes and people are invested.
And I also think, by the way, the other important
thing what was a bummer for golf was nobody was
able to carry on from Tiger. There wasn't there were
(36:58):
you know, like, there wasn't a It was. It was
purely Tiger to pinning, and the people like it was like, oh,
is it gonna be rory? Is it gonna be this?
It was? It was. It wasn't really anybuff with the
w n b A. The hope is you have this rookie,
you have all the stars are already there, and you
(37:18):
have this rookie class. Next year, you're gonna have Page
from Yukon coming in Paige, who was supposed to be
Caitlin before Caitlyn as far as like transcendent star and
the young woman at USC Juju might be the best
of everybody. She's clever then and then you then you're
not just relying on you know, oh, this person's out
(37:40):
for the year.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, let's remember you guys in a year. America likes
football and basketball. We like our basketball. I mean, hell,
I mean we watched women's basketball in college. We like
men's college basketball. We like the NBA. So this this country,
there's been experimental leagues, you know, the the ice cube.
So the truth is there is no experimental baseball league
(38:04):
that works, but there's experimental football and basketball leagues. UFL
was getting a million three, so like this is I
think basketball and football. If you really break down what
America likes. Europe likes soccer, they just love it, and
we love in America, we like our basketball and our football.
(38:25):
You can you can develop stuff off both, and I
think so I do think there's a very good chance
that Caitlin will create. She is the catalyst and we
will start. Now we may never have quite a quite
a Tiger, but Rory's not tiger either either as Deshamba
or Brooks. But they're captivating. They move the needle. All right,
(38:52):
let's bring in my buddy John Middlecoff, former NFL scout.
His podcasts The Football One is three and Out. You
know it's it's funny about I got into this conversation
about quarterbacks that the last twelve years only two quarterbacks
have won Super Bowls, Stars Peyton, Brady Mahomes or guys
(39:16):
who are talented but yet to be paid. Russell Wilson
and Flacco were on the last year of their their
first year contract, and then the Wentz Nick Foles team,
where those guys weren't making any money. So essentially like
that's it, you know, Tua Dak good quarterbacks, big money,
no chance. And so I looked at all the teams.
(39:40):
I came up with twelve quarterbacks who were either I
considered like throw the ball elite fashion, and it was
Stafford and Mahomes and Allen. I put Aaron Rodgers on there.
I put Lamar Jackson because I think he's elite, and
Joe Burrow. Those are the six, so they're in the
Super Bowl bubble. And then there were six other guys
who I consider really really talented and inexpensive, all under
(40:01):
twenty million dollars a cap. Hit Herbert, I think it
was Jalen Hurts, Jordan Love, brock Purty, I'm missing somebody else,
but it was that group.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Would you throw golf in there?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
That's interesting. So Goff was the one quarterback on the
one team I didn't. He is not great and he's
too damn expensive. So over the last twelve years, there
are no Jared Goffs. There are no as b plus
quarterbacks and with no history. I mean Peyton Manning was
(40:38):
older in Denver, but his brain was functioning. It's Peyton Manning.
He could still play off. There are no golf winners.
And it was interesting because I came away and I said,
I actually liked this bubble. It was you know, Ravens, Bengals,
it was all the teams we like, you know Texans.
I think we both agree. And Packers are young, but
you wouldn't be shocked if they end up at a
conference championship and Detroit was my takeaway. And I also
(41:00):
love Dan Campbell's ability to build a culture. I don't
know if you get him in a game with a
Shanahan or Andy Reid if I feel so great about
highly emotional Dan Campbell. So here's a franchise. I love
a quarterback. I've been higher on Goff. You and I have,
I think than almost anybody in the media. Love their roster.
It's a younger version of the Niners. But there are
(41:20):
no examples of Jared Goff winning a Super Bowl that
kind of pay and quarterback. And you know it wouldn't
shock you if I said in five years they didn't
win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
No I mean, well, they're Lions, but I do think
they have a unique window because of the trade they
met made with Stafford and how well they drafted their
team roster wise, feels more like a Raven's Oh yeah right.
They went toe to toe with the Niners, and they
didn't have to lose any of those guys to sign
this track. Now, when the bill comes due and his
number starts hitting whatever. On a yearly basis, twenty percent
(41:54):
of the CAF, it's a little different. But right now,
on a man demand basis, I would say they easily
have a top five roster because the other thing they have.
I was talking to our guy, Jeff Schwartz, who Oregon Duck.
He's like, do you realize that Piney Sewell is like
twenty three, twenty four years old? You know the players,
their young talent. That Jamier Gibbs, the wide receiver, meets
(42:15):
running back like he's a Christian McCaffrey, Alvin Kamara, we
saw Laporta. I'mon Saint Brown. They do have a question mark.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
At defensive back.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah, if you have question marks a defensive back in
twenty twenty four, it can be a problem. But they
did add in the draft. They added Carlton Davis from
Tampa Bay. So if they're just so. The other thing,
Colin is a lot of times when you're a team
that sucks and then a couple of years later has success,
people steal your coaches for whatever reason. Ben Johnson doesn't
want to be a head coach. I mean he's turning
(42:45):
down Josh Harris as they're flying to see him. It's
a unique situation with him. So yeah, Dan is not
mister schematic right, he's not calling the place. But he
didn't lose his start coordinator and now they're defense just
personnel wise, like, I think they.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Got a real chance this shitar.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
They got a real chance because there's a ton of
pressure in San Francisco. I have to see how this
IU thing plays out. Jordan Loves got to do it
for seventeen games. Yeah, right, So you look around Philly,
we still got question marks with Sirianni.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Now the roster is.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Good, but I think the lot it's this year now.
Over the course of the next three or four years,
it gets more difficult if you're not the fourth best quarterback,
if you're closer to eleven and you're making huge money.
But I do think you've you've seen if you can
protect the guy, he's he's mentally tough, He's like a
better version. He's a different type player, but a lot
like Alex Smith, but I think better and yeah, yeah,
(43:36):
mentally tough and that matters in these playoff games. Alex
is just so physically limited when Andy would get him
to the playoffs, Jared has more physical case. You can't
run like that, but he can throw and if you
can protect him. The NFC, I mean, they should have
won that game, and like you said, it was a
I thought it was pretty reckless by Dan Campbell with
the kick of the field goals. But yeah, I think
(43:58):
this year they got a legit chance. If you tell
me the Lions, is it inconceivable? They're the number one seed?
Their division's hard, But I mean, why couldn't they win.
I don't know if San Francisco is gonna win thirteen
fourteen again, maybe they win eleven because them in the
Rams both eleven. What if the Lions get to twelve
or thirteen, have the one seed and then they get
to everything's in adult.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I would argue the two best rosters in the NFL
are San Francisco and Detroit. The best teams are almost
all in the AFC. It's like when USC dominated the
Pac twelve. The conference was just awful, but USC was
the best program and basically they got every California recruit
they wanted. I think the Niners. If I said this
before last year, if you took the Niners and the
(44:38):
Lions and just we're gonna make a Pro Bowl team
out of these two teams it can compete with. I
mean literally the offensive line, Trent Williams one side, pinas
the other.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
You literally hurt people.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, they would hurt people. So I am I think
I'm in the minority here. I want you to think
I'll go first of a team you thinks undervalued. I
think it's Denver. So they drafted an edge rusher. That
is an area of need. If you go back to
last year, the defense was the issue. They got the
most you could get if you go really look at
(45:11):
Russell Wilson's stats. Now, Russell doesn't see the field particularly well,
but they've got a number one receiver in Courtland Sutton.
The offensive line was rated seventh. I like their backs
capable at tight end again, a number one receiver. I
think the old lines better than people think. One of
the smartest play designers and callers in the sport. The
Raiders are not going to be great. The Chargers will
(45:34):
probably take a while to get where they want to get.
They're not going to be terribly explosive vertically. The Chargers
can beat teams, but they're a little bit like Kansas
City last year. They're not blowing people out. They just don't.
They don't.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
He's going to try to play in twenty to seventeen,
oh every week, they're.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Going to be in games with Kansas City. Kansas City
doesn't blow people out anymore, or she Rice is a
bit of a mess. They have a rookie. Chargers won't
blow people out. They could absolutely beat both of those
team once. They could beat the Raiders twice. They're over
unders five and a half. If the kid they drafted,
if the edge rusher works. By the way, Mems last
year became a really nice piece. That's why they moved
(46:12):
off Jerry Judy. They went and got another receiver. I
it's hard when I when you say smart coach, good
offensive line, automatic wins in Division. Bo Nicks had sixty
one starts. If he's capable, if he's Russell Wilson capable.
I think they're like an eight win team. I'm not
(46:34):
saying playoffs, but five Jesus John five and twelve is Carolina.
It's unwatchable. I don't think Denver's gonna be unwatchable.
Speaker 5 (46:46):
Yeah, I think Bo Nick's I remember watching him right
after the draft. He kind of had some like Jimmy
Garoppolo Derek Carr coming out of college, and when those
guys were young, they would have been perfect for Sean
Payton when he was transitioning away from Drew Brees. You know,
this team win loss wise. They they've been in the mix,
but no one really took them that seriously. Seattle's offensive
(47:09):
personnel is pretty awesome. I mean DK Metcalf's like Torell Owens. Oh,
the receivers are great, yeah, Walker, they've improved the offensive line.
Their defense, for a team that's drafted defense that's traded
for defense, has been a knemick these last two years,
which is crazy because you remove the last like three
year stretch. Pete Carroll's easily one of the best defensive
minds over the last thirty plus years, right, but it
(47:30):
it fell apart at the end. Gino Smith I'm not
the biggest believer, but he has not really been their
issue of just being competitive. It's their defense. They couldn't
stop the soul. Well, they get the boy genius from
Baltimore who easily had the best defense in the league
last year. Listen, Stafford's already kind of bitching and moaning
I need a little more money. And Stafford was awesome
last year. But that elbow goes. We've seen what happens.
(47:53):
If he's on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
It's one thing.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
If he misses one game, it's another thing. If he
misses a month and a half. You know, he's the
lynchpin of the whole operation. If something were to happen
to Stafford, I could see Seattle being right there because
you can already tell, like, are the Rams, Like, do
we really want to double down on this? It was
an awesome season. Can we just play out the contract?
To me, Seattle is a quarterback away in the next
(48:17):
couple of years. I'm sure Schneider is going to be
all over him in the draft this year. I think
that they are a very unique spot equipped in the
future if they could ever find just even get their
brock Purty or just a guy that's really good cheap contract.
They would be a problem because what Mike McDaniel or
Mike McDonald did these last two years and specifically last year,
(48:37):
I mean they Colin, he embarrassed Kyle Shanahan on Christmas night.
I had a buddy on the Baltimore Raven staff. They
were all calling him boy genius around the room, like
he is a special defensive schematic guy, and he listened.
We questioned that that side of the ball running a team,
but he does inherit players everywhere on offense and we'll see.
(48:59):
I mean, I and Grub a lot of success coaching.
Now going to the NFL is a little bit different.
But what he just did in Washington, a lot of
NFL people are watching. I'm not shocked to John, you know.
And uh, they hired him to be the offensive coordinator.
So they're a team I would say this year is
going to be interesting, but they're they're a bo Knicks
whoever their guy is over the next couple of years
(49:20):
away from being like they could be a problem.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
All right, let's flip it. Let's find a team that
we think is a bit overvalued. I want to pull
back on Houston so badly but Jesus, I just love
everything they're doing, every move they make, every draft pick.
I love what Houston's doing.
Speaker 5 (49:37):
They're well, they're well run, and they got a good coach,
and they're What their quarterback does is sustainable. He's a
pocket quarterback.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
So you know, I think I think about this. I
really do wonder if Aaron Rodgers is upright. The Miami
Dolphins concerned me. Basically, it's a it's a three headed team.
It's Jalen Waddell, Tyreek Hill, and Tua. Tua was healthy
(50:05):
last year, one of the only healthy years of his life.
The Jets, if Aaron's upright, are going to be much better.
New England's bad. Those are two wins. Buffalo's Buffalo. Their
schedule is not easy.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
The AFC.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Here comes Burrow, Deshaun Watson's coming back. Aaron Rodgers is
coming back. Shit man. Last year was the year the
getting was good. If you're an AFC team like it was,
it was everybody's banged up. Trevor Lawrence wasn't healthy, Anthony
Richardson got hurt. CJ. Stroud's a baby, and I look
at mind.
Speaker 5 (50:38):
I think the Dolphins have like a four game lead
after Thanksgiving. I mean, how the hell did they blow
that division?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And I look at Miami and I'm like, I could
see them just I could just see this thing with
a little injury to too early. I could see it
nose diving. I think Miami's the team that I think
to myself, God last year was I mean, they're literally
weather are affected when they go north and later in
the season. Miami's the team that everybody's high on. I
(51:05):
could see it being a bit of a mess. What's yours.
Speaker 5 (51:08):
I don't take them seriously at all. I don't care
what their record is. In September, go four and oh
in September, seeing that then they've done that. The best
teams in their conference all playing freezing cold weather, not
like cold weather, frigid weather, right, so they have no shot.
I think the colt are team that I'm high on.
(51:31):
Their coaches stud your guy Ballard has done a really
good job. I think their rosters really good. They were
a bad Gardner Minshew swing route from beating the Houston
Texans and winning the division. But their quarterback has played.
He's much more physically gifted and much more talented. But
a little Trey Lancy, he just hasn't played much football
(51:52):
over several years now, so you're you're very dependent on
this guy. It's like, well, if he's awesome, I mean
I haven't really seen him on the field. And then
last year it's one thing to get hit by ray
Lewis Wright or John Lynch in their prime and get
a broken shoulder or whatever. He had some injuries where
you're like, I didn't even think that hit was that violent.
(52:14):
And the thing about football is some guys are just durable.
They just this guy, this guy never missed a game
y fifteen years. Yeah, look at Jerry Rice's career, sixteen
for sixteen, So it just goes on forever. The occasional
you break a leg or whatever. But like you start
having concussions, shoulder issues. That concerns me. I'm probably gonna
pick them to make the playoffs, but I can't feel good.
(52:37):
I mean, their quarterback has played a combined I don't
know how many games you played last year, three or four,
and then before coming out of college he had played
thirteen career games. That's the thing with this class, right.
Hens has been playing for six years. Bo Nick's sixty
one career starts Caleb Williams started every game after Oklahoma
told Spencer Ratler to go, you know, to the pine.
(52:57):
JJ McCarthy like, you've seen these guys be on the
field for a long time. People get very like you
said with Kyler, Murray, lazy, not into it, terrifies teams.
Half the leaks is out. The injury stuff is tough
because you're like, well, what if just a weird couple
of years stretch and then he plays seven straight years,
or what if it's just something that snowballs. You really
(53:18):
don't know. You're just completely taking an educated guess. Half
the times the doctors tell you we can't draft this guy.
This guy goes on Navin eight your career and the
doctor tells you to draft this guy. He's got a
degenerate knee. So it's just it's tough. But that is
gonna concern me picking them. But if I picked the Bengals,
isn't Joe Burrows? Yeah, wrist injury that I don't know
(53:38):
if you read about it, it's not like a broken
leg or an ACL that's basically feels like one hundred
percent recovery. It's a much smaller percentage. Not arthritis, but
pain and just the throbbing as you're working back from
it is unavoidable. He's a quarterback, so he kind of
needs to use it. I love watching the guy play,
(53:59):
and he's the only guy in the AFC that went
toe to toe with Mames and took him down on
the road. But like that, that injury is has a
little baseball feel to it, where you're like, that picture
was never the same, right, Yeah, I hope that's not
the case, but it's it's it's scary the volume.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
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Speaker 1 (01:41):
The other thing we have to admit, Jason, is because
of Luca's ball usage. I felt like he wasn't healthy
for the last two series. He looked, he looked fatigued,
he looked beat up. So again, when when Kyrie's not delivering,
it becomes very Luca dominant, I thought, he looked. I
thought you were getting about eighty percent of Luca in
(02:03):
this finals, and and some of that's just when you're
the guy and it's little Jalen Brunson It's like Jalen's great,
but there are limitations to you know, when Jalen went
on that forty point run, You're like, this isn't gonna
end well, Like he's just you can't. You can't be
that dominant. You have to be able to you know.
And that's why the Celtics work is that Tatum wasn't
(02:24):
good in the first two games. He and Brown were
both good. In Game three tonight, Tatum was superior. I mean,
there were Knights that Derek White, I mean presser before
the half, like it's symphonic watching Boston. They're just handing
the baton off man Luca. He had that baton out
multiple times and nobody grabbed it, and I thought he
(02:46):
looked And that's I agree with you. Oka sees only
getting better. Denver's already favored. Boston's not getting significantly worse
six percent. And by the way, keep your on what
Houston's doing. They had a strips this year. You're like, oh, yeah,
they're probably a veteran away. So listen, we've seen this before.
(03:08):
It's like in the NFL, the loser of the Super Bowl,
like most of the time doesn't farewell. Like this felt
like a magical moment in time for Dallas. But there's
some real flaws here. We would both acknowledge that it
is too Luca dependent. That's what it feels. It does
feel like that Cavs team that was really very Lebron
(03:29):
dependent played with great energy. If you remember Zill Goscas,
I mean, they played with tremendous energy. Lebron was captivating,
they had streaky shooters on the wing. But then you
watch them against San Antonio and you're like, all right,
they you know, five of the best six players are
all Spurs. And that's how I felt in this series.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
One of the things that I find fascinating and I'm
actually curious to get your take on this, Like one
of the things that is hard to do in a
situation like this after you have a successful postseason run
is to be realistic about how far you are away. So,
for instance, Lakers fans last year, it's like we made
the Western Conference finals and I'm like, okay, Well, like
(04:08):
Golden State has always struggled against big athletic teams, that
was a pretty favorable matchup for you. And then also
that Memphis team, young John Morant driving into Anthony Davis,
all series was obviously not going to work. So it's
like you got a couple of favorable matchups, then you
ran into a real championship level team in Denver and
you got your ass kicked. So you're not close, right, right,
(04:31):
So when I look at the Dallas piece, this is
what I think about, Like when the circumstances are favorable,
meaning like when Luca has obvious mismatches, he can pick
at the entire series, and then on the other end
of the floor, when they can really load up the
strong side and keep their rim protectors at the rim
and hide Luca on the opposite end of the floor,
they can get stops. But where I get concerned is
(04:54):
how many times in NBA history have we seen a
team led by two stars that are both at least
combining for two bad defensive players that go win the title.
It's exceedingly rare, and so yeah, one of the things
that I wonder I shouldn't say exceedingly rat can't.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Think of one.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's never happened like.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I would say.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I would even say, like the case would be, oh
what about Jamal Murray, Nicola Jokic, which I understand, But
the flip side there is like even the two of
them were not this type of like like Jokis was
a dominant defensive rebounder who could actually do some stuff
in pick and roll coverages defensively, and Jamal Murray did
his job, and he's bigger. Jamal Murray's bigger than Kyrie.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
They also had an elite defender right off that in Gordon,
So they had yeah, I mean they they accentuated like
you know, it's like the Mavericks or like the Warriors.
They hid steph Igwoodala Clay. So you can get away
with your star not being an elite defender, but you
have to have elements. You have to have size, Jokic, athleticism,
(05:52):
Gordon like that. That's not what this Dallas team is.
It's it's their two stars are Luca Is disengaged lot defensively.
Let's go back to the Celtics, very deserving. Don't forget
they had a dominant record. They lost to Denver, but
they had a dominant record against the West, even more
dominating against the East. Flushed through the Eastern Conference playoffs
(06:16):
and the finals. So you know there are these teams
too that you know, we're so used to dynasties in
the NBA. I was talking to Chris bruce Hard today.
We were talking about teams that won a championship that
weren't a dynasty, but they were great teams. And one
of the first ones was the Jerry West, Gail Goodrich,
Wilt Chamberlain. Remember that thirty three game winning streak Laker
(06:39):
team that I think beat the Knicks and won a championship. Now,
they didn't reel off a lot of them, but in
a singular season that was an older Wilt. That's one
of the greatest teams of all time. There was a
seventy six Ers team that had Moses Malone joined Julius
Irving and they were kind of missing a dominating interior
(06:59):
scoring presence and for a year or two, Jesus, I
remember those Sixers well, like Malone was. It's just hard
to exp Moses Malone. If you ever saw him play,
nobody discusses him. He was as dominating a rebounder as
I've ever seen in the history of basketball, with doctor
J and good guard play. And I think Boston falls
(07:20):
into that group. So right now, like we thought Denver
was gonna run off two or three Boston in a
single season like that, West good Rich Will team or
the Moses Malone Doctor j T for a season lightning
in a bottle health spectacular. You know, just just flush
through the playoffs. The question will become they will play
(07:43):
with a champion swagger next year. They probably won't be
as relentless in the regular season. This is, you know,
kind of predictable. They'll they'll be you know, they'll have
their little swoons and won't be. But I do think
there's a chance it's a back to back championship because
cross your fingers on poor Zingis's health. You know they're
bringing the guys back. You'll play with more confidence. Tatum
(08:05):
comes into a season like, Okay, I got it, I
got my money, I got my title. I think it
does take pressure. I think it was building you and
I said this this was Celtics had to win this
after that Warriors Final where they came home and kind
of laid an egg emotionally. They had to play well
in this series. I thought by second quarter game too,
(08:26):
it was like this is a mismatch. But I think
next year you'll see this goes down to me is
a in moment in time, A great team in a
great moment, too good not to win a championship, but
at times too weird to be a dynasty. I mean,
Jalen Brown wins the MVP and he averaged twenty a game.
You didn't neverge thirty, you didn't neverage twenty eight. He
(08:48):
averaged twenty twenty one a game and was the MVP
for the second straight series. So historically, can we acknowledge
they're a little bit of an odd eight team?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're They're absolutely weird.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I mean, like when we think about the when we
list the all time great teams in NBA history, we
think like twenty seventeen Warriors, twenty thirteen he you know,
teams like the the two thousand and one Lakers, the
nineteen ninety six Bowls, right, the nineteen eighty six Celtics,
like the nineteen eighty seven Lakers. We think of these
teams and every single one of them is led by
(09:28):
one of the five best team players in NBA history.
In my opinion, Steph Curry is the fifth best perimeter
player that's played since nineteen eighty Like, I think he's
right up there with Bird and Magic in that tier.
So like these it's just funky to see a team
that is as dominant as the Celtics have been. But
I think one of the things too, is this kind
(09:49):
of stuff bears out in time, Like you know what
Celtics fans, they're gonna want a certain amount of like
the credit for being dominant, and like here's the thing,
like you beat the you beat the cas the Heat
without Jimmy Butler, the Pacers and the Maps. So like
like I'm not trying to like, but one of the
things with NBA history because like people said this about
(10:09):
the Nuggets last year, and I thought the Nuggets run
was a little underrated because they went through Lebron and
Ad and they went through Kadi and Devin Booker, and
they went through Jimmy Butler and.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Bam Ata Bio.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Like I actually thought that Nuggets team, yeah, played some
tough opponents, but like everyone was like, oh, Denver had
an easier path. Well guess what happened this year. They
had to play a really tough team in the second round.
They lost. So yeah, NBA history has a chance has
a kind of like a habit of working these sorts
of things out. Like next year they're probably going to
have to play a Milwaukee in a playoff series, or
(10:38):
a healthy Knicks team or a team like Denver out
of the Western Conference, or maybe what if Ooklahoma City
makes some big trade this summer and they end up
going to the finals and it ends up like NBA
history is a kind of a habit of working these
things out. Everything about how this team is remembered is
going to be about the big picture. So, for instance,
they lose, if they lose next next year, you're gonna
(11:01):
zoom out on a three year window here, and you're
gonna be like, embarrassing loss against the Heat in the
conference finals, beat four mediocre teams, then lost the following year.
People will write the story of that Celtics team as
an underachieving, overly talented team. But if they go out
next year and they beat better teams on their way
to the Larry O'Brien, people will zoom out and be like,
(11:21):
this is an all time great team. So like that's
the thing, Like you're gonna get another crack at the
table next year. It's like Jason Tatum said, gotta do
it again next year. Go ahead, do it and it'll
shut everybody up. Like these things get worked out with wins.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I think a team to keep your eye on is
the Knicks. I think one of the great things if
you're a Knicks fan, because they don't match up from
an offensive perspective. They just don't have They don't have
that many guys that can catch it and shoot it
and ball handle in pass. One of the things that's
great about the Celtics winning if you're a Knicks fan,
it does force you some urgency.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
We can't make us a tweak. We're not a tweak
away from beating Boston. Like we got to go out
and get guys like Michale Bridges and another score. Boston
really puts pressure on Eastern teams. It's one thing if
you if you're a Western team and you lose to
Boston in the finals. You got to the finals, but
you're you're not getting past Boston in New York with
(12:20):
a tweak. You're just not you know, even Miami Bam
and Butler. You know, Butler will probably be banged up
by the time. You know, if he if he's a
Miami Heat, they need another not Tyler hero, they need
another player. So it's this is the good thing. If
you're a Miami fan, or a Knicks fan, or a
(12:41):
Sixers fan, this is like, guys, this wasn't competitive like this.
They just I mean, how many blowouts they had, like
thirteen blowout wins. It's like tweaking is not beating Nobody
in the East has Jokic. Okay, you don't have Yokic,
so Tweaking's not gonna do it. And I think that's
(13:03):
that's sort of the advantages. I say this in sports
all the time. The great thing about harbaught Michigan. For
a Buckeye fan, it puts pressure on going and getting
Chip Kelly as an offensive coordinator. It's like they're throwing,
They're pushing us around three years in a row. You
want your rival to be viable because it puts pressure
on your owner and your front office. And so I'm
watching this game tonight and I'm thinking, if I'm a
(13:24):
Knicks fan, you may hate Boston, but your front office,
these are smart people now in New York running that franchise.
You got to bring the McHale Bridges on and another
guy that can drop twenty Devivingenzo's become a great catch
and shoot. Guy Brunston's going to give you twenty eight.
McHale Bridges could give you twenty four and I've got
(13:44):
to get somebody better than Mitchell Robinson in the post
that can give me offense. So it's that's the upside
for the Eastern Conference teams is I think Darryl Morey,
the Knicks, you know, Indiana, if they can get somebody
that the pressure's on. You got to add multiple pieces
over the next couple years to beat these guys.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
And aggression is going to be the key because again,
like how did Boston do this. They did this by
trading for Drew Holliday and Chrisops Porzinkis, Like Brad Stevens
just hit two massive home runs. I went back and
looked at that trade and saw that they ended up
like netting two first round picks in the Porzingis trade,
and I'm like, ah, man, like anybody could have had him,
and then Boston went and got him. And then you know,
like even looking at Denver, it's like they went and
(14:23):
got KCP, they went and got Aaron Gordon, Like those
are two like slam dunk moves to surround Jamal Murray,
Michael Porter Junior, and Nicole Jokic. They just there. That
aggression is the big piece there. Even going back to
twenty twenty one, they won after they traded for Drew Holliday.
The Bucks did they traded for Drew Holliday, They went
and they won the title. And so like, keep an
eye on those aggressive teams this summer, the teams that
(14:45):
add talent. There are a lot of young teams in
the NBA right now that are like this close to
becoming great. That Thunder team, that Orlando Magic team is
probably like two years away, but they're gonna be really
really good. You mentioned the Pacers. If they if they
make maybe one more edition this offseason, they could be
in the mix. The Knicks are obviously gonna be aggressive.
I mentioned Memphis earlier. Like Memphis, this kid Gigi Jackson
(15:09):
that they have on the wing is awesome that they
discovered this year. He like slots perfectly between Jamrant Desmond Bain.
They're gonna have Jaron Jackson coming back. They're gonna have
a big look. They're gonna go get a center, and
they're gonna have a massive frontline that could contend with Denver.
As long as Jamranc can like stay healthy and available
for his team, I think they could be really good.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Like the league is just.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Like this Celtics team is kind of settling right in
this nice little opening here where all the older teams
are kind of falling apart and all the younger teams
are not quite there yet and they're having a lot
of success as a result.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
All right, it's my buddy Nick, right, So you know
I was thinking about this is the Lakers still haven't
named a coach and they're just a mess.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You could argue, would you let Rob Linka run the volume?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well, no, because it's a different business, I would not. No, No, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
He's one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
No, but he's one of those guys that's really a
good looking guy with a lot of confidence and bright
and I get you a long way in life.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And great relationships. Great, that's a the good looking, smart
and friends, you know, good with good at cocktail parties,
social that it is that those are a lot of
skeleton keys to life. That is true. That that is true.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Go ahead, and I think, and it's not a knock
on Rob, but he's good looking, social relationships and and
and bright enough and it just works. And then in
a weird way, the worst thing that could have happened
to the Lakers is Lebron coming because Lebron has done
this for franchises his whole career, or except Miami. Remember
(17:02):
that thing you used to use when we used typewriters
called white out. Yeah, you'd make a mistake and you
could wipe it out. Lebron's like that for basketball franchises,
shitty gms, average coaches. Lebron just wins championships like he
just even more than Michael, who needed Pippin, who needed Phil.
Lebron got every coach to the finals. It doesn't matter,
(17:24):
and so he's the great eraser. Is that people forget
how bad the Lakers were for a long stretch pre
Lebron six years. Yeah, and then Lebron comes. They went
in the Bubble, which was a weird year, and people
forget how mostly bad they've been with Lebron. Take the
(17:46):
Bubble year out. I mean that's the year Harball's team
was terrible and Belichick's was terrible. Like that year was.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Can I just say something real quick, because I have
to defend the Bubble before any of us had ever
heard the word coronavirus. The Lakers have the best record
in the NBA. So I am so I think that
team was. It was the last year we ever had
Lebron before he suffered his first significant injury of his career,
(18:19):
the Solomon Hill thinking of his ankle, Anthony Davis the
best we ever saw him. So I do think that
was the best team in basketball under any circumstances. But
that doesn't change your point. The point is ten.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Days had ten years, one fifty one season, and they
will go into this season. Then on any night where
Lebron or a d and this will happen often in
the regular season, take a night off. Austin Reeves is
your second best player. He does not start for Boston,
nor do I think he starts for Denver, and I'm
(18:52):
not sure he starts for Oklahoma City. That Lebron were
conning to the Lakers, Yeah, Lebron coming to the Lakers
got you a COVID Bubble title for a franchise with
twelve Who gives a shit In the end, it has
masked a like twelve year eleven to twelve year run
(19:14):
of large incompetency or suboptimal guidance upstirs. So again, the.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I think they I think that title's as legitimate as anyone,
but I don't think it changes your point, which is
they have in both the Tatum and Brown drafts. They
had the pick before Tatum and Brown. They had the
(19:46):
number two pick both years. It took Lonzo and Ingram.
And by the way, I have tweets out they're saying
I liked Lonzo more than I like Tatum. I miss
that and people here's the thing on that people are
people often say, oh, well, you had that wrong too, Guys.
It's not my own my I have a lot of
things I'm looking at. Figuring out the single best draft
(20:10):
pick for the Lakers is not literally my only job.
So to compare my how I would have done as
Lakers GM went in that by that same metric, I
am the GM of thirty NBA teams, thirty two NFL teams,
a couple baseball teams, and doing other things. It's nonsense. Yes,
I would have gotten it wrong to the Lakers job
to get it right. There's that. There is the fact
that they either were too cheap or incompetent to keep
(20:34):
Alex Caruso. They ever Lebron wanted, no question, Lebron wanted
Russell Westbrook, but Lebron wanted Kyrie Irving, and they found
a way to say no to that. Lebron wanted Tyleru.
They found a way to say no to that. They
said yes to Russell Westbrook because they wanted him to
because they're about stars. And then they mortified themselves with
(20:58):
this coaching search. This is horrifying, man, horrifying. Danny Hurley
told you he was to the point where he's talking
to Lebron and the Lake. The Detroit Pistons are willing
to pay Many Williams more money to not coach them,
(21:23):
then the Lakers were willing to offer Danny Hurley to
coach them. It's not They're not as serious. They are
a family business that is being run by Linda Rambis,
Kurt Rambis, Kobe's former agent, Rob Blenka, and Genie Buss.
(21:46):
And the only this is what frustrates me so much
about because there's still a contingent of Laker fans that
are really Kobe fans that are hostile towards Lebron. The
only reason this team has not been in the wilderness since.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, the first term of the Obama administration.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
That's right, that's right, is Lebron that's decided he wanted
to live in la not even Oh, you had built
a fun team that made since Nope, I want to
live in Los Angeles, find the cap space, all do
the rest. I will get us Anthony Davis, and we'll
(22:36):
instantly win a title. And then so I just I don't.
I don't think you could squander a situation more readily
than the Lakers have as an organization. And they man,
they fired Darvinham seven weeks ago, seven weeks ago, and.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
They didn't have an answer. Why would you ever fire somebody.
If a company fired me, I can assure you they'd
have a plan. Lakers have no plan, no plan what?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And the the Danny Hurley thing was e like, this
is where I've said this to you four or I'll
say it again. One of my favorite lines from an
all time movie, Casino, when de Niro is on the
casino floor with the state assemblyman's nephew or whatever, the
(23:33):
cowboy that had the job they didn't deserve and there
had been three slot jackpots in a row, and de
Niro's losing his mind because it was a scam. He
says to him, he says, you're fired, and the guy's like,
I'm fired. He's like, you're hefing fired. He's like, I'm fired.
He's like, yeah, you're fired because either you were in
(23:54):
on it or you were too dumb to know you
were being scammed. Either way, you gotta go. That's how
I feel about the Danny Hurley situation. There are two
doors you can walk through on that. Either you never
actually intended to hire him and you thought having that
(24:16):
story out there would be good pr and soften the
blow of eventually hiring JJ Reddick, or you really did
want to hire him and you thought eleven million dollars
a year was gonna get it done. So either you
(24:36):
were trying to run a scam on your fan base
or you were too incompetent to get your guy. Either way,
you're unqualified. You are unqualified, And I don't think this
is why I brought up blink up. That is in
a lot of industries, man, that is a fireable offense.
(24:56):
Oh yeah, if somebody, if you have say, I'm not
going to compare you to Darbnham, that's unfair. But if
if you if someone, if you get if you get
fired and the company's like trust us and then publicly,
(25:17):
very publicly goes after someone that everybody thinks, oh well
that would be great. Oh they're getting costas I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I'm just making yes.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Whatever it is. And then that person says, nah, don't
want it, and the next day does seven radio shows
telling everyone about why he didn't take the job and
makes a fool of you. That person who screwed that
up usually is held to account, and instead we're just
(25:51):
left with they had a good meeting with JJ Reddick, Like,
give me a break, you're the Los Angeles Lakers crazy.
It's mortifying. It's mortifying, man.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I think it's an amazing time. I think something is
happening in television, in media, in sports that's really really fascinating.
Is that because basically television now, the platform of television
may be shrinking, but it's all sports. I've told you
this before. If TikTok banned everything except cooking and culinary
(26:30):
stuff on TikTok and it lost seventy percent of its audience,
it would be great for culinary because it would be
the only thing on TikTok. You don't have to own
a platform. If you're the only thing on the platform,
it's powerful. And I think a lot of media critics say, oh,
cable TV is losing its audience. The only thing that
works on TV today, the only thing is sports in
(26:52):
every four years politics, So television now is just Fox
has said on Fridays we're doing sports. Weekends were sports,
We're going to Fridays. In fact, if they had the
Amazon Thursday Games, I think Fox would say Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
We're a sports network, three days a primetime nonsports. And
so I think what's one of the things that's interesting
(27:15):
is that the explosion Caitlin Clark is clearly a catalyst
for a business that was and let's be honest, Whereas
Tiger and Connor McGregor elevated their sports, Caitlyn to some degree,
Caitlin to some degree financially saved the WNBA. It was
hemorrhaging money for years.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
So that so let me can I just before you
get to your point. So I think that people have
a hard time saying that or accepting that both of
these things can be true. It is good and I
(27:52):
think worthwhile, and I'm glad that pre Caitlin Clark there
was a women's profession basketball league in America that was
treated as a big time league and deserved to be.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Okay, that's act that is true, and in terms of
basketball annually.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Absolutely. Here's what's also true. There is proof of concept
overseas that women's basketball can be profitable. That's why for
Britney Griner, you know, ended up in prison, was because
a lot of these women go overseas make a lot
more money. And that's not charity. They're not getting paid
(28:32):
out of charity. They're because those those leagues in those
countries have found ways to monetize it in a way
the WNBA hadn't. The WNBA was not well run. Flatly,
they they had a product that could be monetized in
a way that it was not. I'm not saying the
(28:55):
teams weren't well run. I'm saying the league as far
as whoever was in chards of generating revenue, there was.
But the fact of the matter is whosever fault it was.
It was a league that as a business was not
a highly successful one at all. It's why you could
get a I think you could get a franchise for
(29:18):
fifty million, Well you know the is the franchise fee
like it? So it is it can be true that
it was it had the potential, as being proven right now,
to potentially be a super valuable business. But was not
being treated or run as such, and I think that
(29:38):
was an oversight maybe by the upper echelon of leadership.
And now with Caitlin, they have no choice but to
adapt and evolve because there's gonna be money pouring in
because there's so many more eyeballs on it now.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
But as I was thinking about this is that there's
always been this gap. I tend to think of my
show are shows in terms of, you know, like almost
color coded, like red hot is Labor Day until February
twenty third, right, and then it cools down. It's an
(30:15):
orange a hue for NFL free agency, March Madness was
pretty good. I thought that college basketball had a good year,
women helping with that, and then the draft and that's
like orange, and then it goes back to a little
stronger orange for the NBA playoffs. Then it's blue. It's cool,
like we got two muchs cool. And I will say that,
(30:37):
you know, every four years World Cups, the Copas Euros,
those are very good for Fox. Those getting the good numbers,
they're fascinating. But I will say this selfishly, is that
the WNBA has become on a fairly regular basis, it
will fill a segment every day on my show, and
I'm not doing it because I don't talk hockey much.
I'm not doing it as a reach. And I was
(30:59):
thinking about that, how people get famous. Some people get
famous on art. Mister Rogers got famous on decency. Some
people get famous or infamous on controversy, accidental or as
a law provocateur. In that, not only is Caitlin Clark
(31:19):
a catalyst, but the racial component and the underdog being
picked on as a component. And it's a little like golf,
where a very insular country club, predominantly white, wealthy sport
had this profoundly popular, historically fantastic player and that was
(31:42):
part of the Tiger story. He was new on many levels.
And I do think, and I'm not saying there is
a racial component to the WNBA, but every business needs
a catalyst, and every business there explosion is different. Some
it's controversy, some it's and so I'll use it is good.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
So I think the Caitlin and the physicality, I look
at it and I think, hey, just look at the
WNBA as an American business. It is an American business,
and their catalyst is an underdog from Middle America. And
there's a racial component. That is a story one hundred
(32:27):
years old in America.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
It could be.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
There's a million businesses where that has been the case.
The sports one that there's a little correlation is Tiger,
although Tiger was profoundly dominant very early.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah. So the yeah, I don't. The only part of
that is I don't necessarily I think the media, some
media is treating Caitlin as more of an underdog than
she actually is. I don't think you were as an
underdog as much as I viewer as just a rookie
who is going through, you know, rookie growing pains, ebbs
and flows, but as.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
A really good player.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
But he is a really good player. You were talking
about the way it doesn't I'm going to use a
maybe unfortunate example. I'll use it as far as it
doesn't really matter why you get famous, it matters what
you do with it. Yeah, And I think maybe the
perfect example of that is Kim Kardashian. So, Kim Kardashian
(33:25):
was semi famous, a little famous, and then became uber
famous momentarily because of a sex tape, flatly, and what
did she do with it? Created a multi billion dollar
business based off her skill talent and beauty. Flatly, she
has one of the longest running hit television shows. She
(33:46):
has you know more, I don't you know a clothing
line or makeup line. I'm not all the way up
to date on everything the Kardashians are doing. But she
took that spark and turned it into a forest fire.
And that is what I'm hoping the WNBA can do
with this. You have Caitlin is the spark. The rivalry
(34:10):
which dates back to college with Angel Reese is real
gas on that spark. The times absurd media attention is
turning it into a real fire that at times the
wrong things are being focused on, and it's and to
go back to our bad actors on the internet stuff.
(34:31):
There's a lot of grossness surrounded with it. But even
if it's just by accident, there are a lot more
eyeballs on this league enough so everyone in the sports
world today was aware. Oh man, Cameron Brink tore ACL yesterday. Yeah,
(34:52):
like that sucks. Think about that. Two years ago, there
was no if if the number if the third most
famous w NBA rookie got hurt mid season. It's not
like one of the biggest things that happened I'm in
(35:12):
the sports world that day. From an attention standpoint, people
now care, and I that sounded wrong. I know a
lot some people care, but it has a relevance that
it's a zeitgeist effect, that it happened before there are
(35:33):
it is a bigger tint there, or it's the same
sized tint and more people are crowding in. And some
of those people are real assholes, and I kind of
wish they would leave, but they're here too, and so
I so I agree with you. It's how I forever
because I love tennis. I was hoping, like, man, can
(35:54):
someone in the Big three tennis become like controversial or
that where America cares because I would love to have
some Nadal Federer Djokovic seven years ago discussions, But my
audience didn't care enough. So on the podcast, I do
Nick's tennis corner during the Majors, and that's it because
(36:15):
I respect what the audience wants. But Colin, I was
on your TV show for twenty minutes on the Tuesday
after the NBA Finals rapped, and we spent as much
time on Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees as we did
on Game five of the finals, and it was a
(36:36):
smart programming decision because people have takes and people are invested.
And I also think, by the way, the other important
thing what was a bummer for golf was nobody was
able to carry on from Tiger. There wasn't there were
(36:58):
you know, like, there wasn't a It was. It was
purely Tiger to pinning, and the people like it was like, oh,
is it gonna be rory? Is it gonna be this?
It was? It was. It wasn't really anybuff with the
w n b A. The hope is you have this rookie,
you have all the stars are already there, and you
(37:18):
have this rookie class. Next year, you're gonna have Page
from Yukon coming in Paige, who was supposed to be
Caitlin before Caitlyn as far as like transcendent star and
the young woman at USC Juju might be the best
of everybody. She's clever then and then you then you're
not just relying on you know, oh, this person's out
(37:40):
for the year.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, let's remember you guys in a year. America likes
football and basketball. We like our basketball. I mean, hell,
I mean we watched women's basketball in college. We like
men's college basketball. We like the NBA. So this this country,
there's been experimental leagues, you know, the the ice cube.
So the truth is there is no experimental baseball league
(38:04):
that works, but there's experimental football and basketball leagues. UFL
was getting a million three, so like this is I
think basketball and football. If you really break down what
America likes. Europe likes soccer, they just love it, and
we love in America, we like our basketball and our football.
(38:25):
You can you can develop stuff off both, and I
think so I do think there's a very good chance
that Caitlin will create. She is the catalyst and we
will start. Now we may never have quite a quite
a Tiger, but Rory's not tiger either either as Deshamba
or Brooks. But they're captivating. They move the needle. All right,
(38:52):
let's bring in my buddy John Middlecoff, former NFL scout.
His podcasts The Football One is three and Out. You
know it's it's funny about I got into this conversation
about quarterbacks that the last twelve years only two quarterbacks
have won Super Bowls, Stars Peyton, Brady Mahomes or guys
(39:16):
who are talented but yet to be paid. Russell Wilson
and Flacco were on the last year of their their
first year contract, and then the Wentz Nick Foles team,
where those guys weren't making any money. So essentially like
that's it, you know, Tua Dak good quarterbacks, big money,
no chance. And so I looked at all the teams.
(39:40):
I came up with twelve quarterbacks who were either I
considered like throw the ball elite fashion, and it was
Stafford and Mahomes and Allen. I put Aaron Rodgers on there.
I put Lamar Jackson because I think he's elite, and
Joe Burrow. Those are the six, so they're in the
Super Bowl bubble. And then there were six other guys
who I consider really really talented and inexpensive, all under
(40:01):
twenty million dollars a cap. Hit Herbert, I think it
was Jalen Hurts, Jordan Love, brock Purty, I'm missing somebody else,
but it was that group.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Would you throw golf in there?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
That's interesting. So Goff was the one quarterback on the
one team I didn't. He is not great and he's
too damn expensive. So over the last twelve years, there
are no Jared Goffs. There are no as b plus
quarterbacks and with no history. I mean Peyton Manning was
(40:38):
older in Denver, but his brain was functioning. It's Peyton Manning.
He could still play off. There are no golf winners.
And it was interesting because I came away and I said,
I actually liked this bubble. It was you know, Ravens, Bengals,
it was all the teams we like, you know Texans.
I think we both agree. And Packers are young, but
you wouldn't be shocked if they end up at a
conference championship and Detroit was my takeaway. And I also
(41:00):
love Dan Campbell's ability to build a culture. I don't
know if you get him in a game with a
Shanahan or Andy Reid if I feel so great about
highly emotional Dan Campbell. So here's a franchise. I love
a quarterback. I've been higher on Goff. You and I have,
I think than almost anybody in the media. Love their roster.
It's a younger version of the Niners. But there are
(41:20):
no examples of Jared Goff winning a Super Bowl that
kind of pay and quarterback. And you know it wouldn't
shock you if I said in five years they didn't
win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (41:31):
No I mean, well, they're Lions, but I do think
they have a unique window because of the trade they
met made with Stafford and how well they drafted their
team roster wise, feels more like a Raven's Oh yeah right.
They went toe to toe with the Niners, and they
didn't have to lose any of those guys to sign
this track. Now, when the bill comes due and his
number starts hitting whatever. On a yearly basis, twenty percent
(41:54):
of the CAF, it's a little different. But right now,
on a man demand basis, I would say they easily
have a top five roster because the other thing they have.
I was talking to our guy, Jeff Schwartz, who Oregon Duck.
He's like, do you realize that Piney Sewell is like
twenty three, twenty four years old? You know the players,
their young talent. That Jamier Gibbs, the wide receiver, meets
(42:15):
running back like he's a Christian McCaffrey, Alvin Kamara, we
saw Laporta. I'mon Saint Brown. They do have a question mark.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
At defensive back.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah, if you have question marks a defensive back in
twenty twenty four, it can be a problem. But they
did add in the draft. They added Carlton Davis from
Tampa Bay. So if they're just so. The other thing,
Colin is a lot of times when you're a team
that sucks and then a couple of years later has success,
people steal your coaches for whatever reason. Ben Johnson doesn't
want to be a head coach. I mean he's turning
(42:45):
down Josh Harris as they're flying to see him. It's
a unique situation with him. So yeah, Dan is not
mister schematic right, he's not calling the place. But he
didn't lose his start coordinator and now they're defense just
personnel wise, like, I think they.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Got a real chance this shitar.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
They got a real chance because there's a ton of
pressure in San Francisco. I have to see how this
IU thing plays out. Jordan Loves got to do it
for seventeen games. Yeah, right, So you look around Philly,
we still got question marks with Sirianni.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Now the roster is.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Good, but I think the lot it's this year now.
Over the course of the next three or four years,
it gets more difficult if you're not the fourth best quarterback,
if you're closer to eleven and you're making huge money.
But I do think you've you've seen if you can
protect the guy, he's he's mentally tough, He's like a
better version. He's a different type player, but a lot
like Alex Smith, but I think better and yeah, yeah,
(43:36):
mentally tough and that matters in these playoff games. Alex
is just so physically limited when Andy would get him
to the playoffs, Jared has more physical case. You can't
run like that, but he can throw and if you
can protect him. The NFC, I mean, they should have
won that game, and like you said, it was a
I thought it was pretty reckless by Dan Campbell with
the kick of the field goals. But yeah, I think
(43:58):
this year they got a legit chance. If you tell
me the Lions, is it inconceivable? They're the number one seed?
Their division's hard, But I mean, why couldn't they win.
I don't know if San Francisco is gonna win thirteen
fourteen again, maybe they win eleven because them in the
Rams both eleven. What if the Lions get to twelve
or thirteen, have the one seed and then they get
to everything's in adult.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I would argue the two best rosters in the NFL
are San Francisco and Detroit. The best teams are almost
all in the AFC. It's like when USC dominated the
Pac twelve. The conference was just awful, but USC was
the best program and basically they got every California recruit
they wanted. I think the Niners. If I said this
before last year, if you took the Niners and the
(44:38):
Lions and just we're gonna make a Pro Bowl team
out of these two teams it can compete with. I
mean literally the offensive line, Trent Williams one side, pinas
the other.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
You literally hurt people.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, they would hurt people. So I am I think
I'm in the minority here. I want you to think
I'll go first of a team you thinks undervalued. I
think it's Denver. So they drafted an edge rusher. That
is an area of need. If you go back to
last year, the defense was the issue. They got the
most you could get if you go really look at
(45:11):
Russell Wilson's stats. Now, Russell doesn't see the field particularly well,
but they've got a number one receiver in Courtland Sutton.
The offensive line was rated seventh. I like their backs
capable at tight end again, a number one receiver. I
think the old lines better than people think. One of
the smartest play designers and callers in the sport. The
Raiders are not going to be great. The Chargers will
(45:34):
probably take a while to get where they want to get.
They're not going to be terribly explosive vertically. The Chargers
can beat teams, but they're a little bit like Kansas
City last year. They're not blowing people out. They just don't.
They don't.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
He's going to try to play in twenty to seventeen,
oh every week, they're.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Going to be in games with Kansas City. Kansas City
doesn't blow people out anymore, or she Rice is a
bit of a mess. They have a rookie. Chargers won't
blow people out. They could absolutely beat both of those
team once. They could beat the Raiders twice. They're over
unders five and a half. If the kid they drafted,
if the edge rusher works. By the way, Mems last
year became a really nice piece. That's why they moved
(46:12):
off Jerry Judy. They went and got another receiver. I
it's hard when I when you say smart coach, good
offensive line, automatic wins in Division. Bo Nicks had sixty
one starts. If he's capable, if he's Russell Wilson capable.
I think they're like an eight win team. I'm not
(46:34):
saying playoffs, but five Jesus John five and twelve is Carolina.
It's unwatchable. I don't think Denver's gonna be unwatchable.
Speaker 5 (46:46):
Yeah, I think Bo Nick's I remember watching him right
after the draft. He kind of had some like Jimmy
Garoppolo Derek Carr coming out of college, and when those
guys were young, they would have been perfect for Sean
Payton when he was transitioning away from Drew Brees. You know,
this team win loss wise. They they've been in the mix,
but no one really took them that seriously. Seattle's offensive
(47:09):
personnel is pretty awesome. I mean DK Metcalf's like Torell Owens. Oh,
the receivers are great, yeah, Walker, they've improved the offensive line.
Their defense, for a team that's drafted defense that's traded
for defense, has been a knemick these last two years,
which is crazy because you remove the last like three
year stretch. Pete Carroll's easily one of the best defensive
minds over the last thirty plus years, right, but it
(47:30):
it fell apart at the end. Gino Smith I'm not
the biggest believer, but he has not really been their
issue of just being competitive. It's their defense. They couldn't
stop the soul. Well, they get the boy genius from
Baltimore who easily had the best defense in the league
last year. Listen, Stafford's already kind of bitching and moaning
I need a little more money. And Stafford was awesome
last year. But that elbow goes. We've seen what happens.
(47:53):
If he's on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
It's one thing.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
If he misses one game, it's another thing. If he
misses a month and a half. You know, he's the
lynchpin of the whole operation. If something were to happen
to Stafford, I could see Seattle being right there because
you can already tell, like, are the Rams, Like, do
we really want to double down on this? It was
an awesome season. Can we just play out the contract?
To me, Seattle is a quarterback away in the next
(48:17):
couple of years. I'm sure Schneider is going to be
all over him in the draft this year. I think
that they are a very unique spot equipped in the
future if they could ever find just even get their
brock Purty or just a guy that's really good cheap contract.
They would be a problem because what Mike McDaniel or
Mike McDonald did these last two years and specifically last year,
(48:37):
I mean they Colin, he embarrassed Kyle Shanahan on Christmas night.
I had a buddy on the Baltimore Raven staff. They
were all calling him boy genius around the room, like
he is a special defensive schematic guy, and he listened.
We questioned that that side of the ball running a team,
but he does inherit players everywhere on offense and we'll see.
(48:59):
I mean, I and Grub a lot of success coaching.
Now going to the NFL is a little bit different.
But what he just did in Washington, a lot of
NFL people are watching. I'm not shocked to John, you know.
And uh, they hired him to be the offensive coordinator.
So they're a team I would say this year is
going to be interesting, but they're they're a bo Knicks
whoever their guy is over the next couple of years
(49:20):
away from being like they could be a problem.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
All right, let's flip it. Let's find a team that
we think is a bit overvalued. I want to pull
back on Houston so badly but Jesus, I just love
everything they're doing, every move they make, every draft pick.
I love what Houston's doing.
Speaker 5 (49:37):
They're well, they're well run, and they got a good coach,
and they're What their quarterback does is sustainable. He's a
pocket quarterback.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
So you know, I think I think about this. I
really do wonder if Aaron Rodgers is upright. The Miami
Dolphins concerned me. Basically, it's a it's a three headed team.
It's Jalen Waddell, Tyreek Hill, and Tua. Tua was healthy
(50:05):
last year, one of the only healthy years of his life.
The Jets, if Aaron's upright, are going to be much better.
New England's bad. Those are two wins. Buffalo's Buffalo. Their
schedule is not easy.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
The AFC.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Here comes Burrow, Deshaun Watson's coming back. Aaron Rodgers is
coming back. Shit man. Last year was the year the
getting was good. If you're an AFC team like it was,
it was everybody's banged up. Trevor Lawrence wasn't healthy, Anthony
Richardson got hurt. CJ. Stroud's a baby, and I look
at mind.
Speaker 5 (50:38):
I think the Dolphins have like a four game lead
after Thanksgiving. I mean, how the hell did they blow
that division?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And I look at Miami and I'm like, I could
see them just I could just see this thing with
a little injury to too early. I could see it
nose diving. I think Miami's the team that I think
to myself, God last year was I mean, they're literally
weather are affected when they go north and later in
the season. Miami's the team that everybody's high on. I
(51:05):
could see it being a bit of a mess. What's yours.
Speaker 5 (51:08):
I don't take them seriously at all. I don't care
what their record is. In September, go four and oh
in September, seeing that then they've done that. The best
teams in their conference all playing freezing cold weather, not
like cold weather, frigid weather, right, so they have no shot.
I think the colt are team that I'm high on.
(51:31):
Their coaches stud your guy Ballard has done a really
good job. I think their rosters really good. They were
a bad Gardner Minshew swing route from beating the Houston
Texans and winning the division. But their quarterback has played.
He's much more physically gifted and much more talented. But
a little Trey Lancy, he just hasn't played much football
(51:52):
over several years now, so you're you're very dependent on
this guy. It's like, well, if he's awesome, I mean
I haven't really seen him on the field. And then
last year it's one thing to get hit by ray
Lewis Wright or John Lynch in their prime and get
a broken shoulder or whatever. He had some injuries where
you're like, I didn't even think that hit was that violent.
(52:14):
And the thing about football is some guys are just durable.
They just this guy, this guy never missed a game
y fifteen years. Yeah, look at Jerry Rice's career, sixteen
for sixteen, So it just goes on forever. The occasional
you break a leg or whatever. But like you start
having concussions, shoulder issues. That concerns me. I'm probably gonna
pick them to make the playoffs, but I can't feel good.
(52:37):
I mean, their quarterback has played a combined I don't
know how many games you played last year, three or four,
and then before coming out of college he had played
thirteen career games. That's the thing with this class, right.
Hens has been playing for six years. Bo Nick's sixty
one career starts Caleb Williams started every game after Oklahoma
told Spencer Ratler to go, you know, to the pine.
(52:57):
JJ McCarthy like, you've seen these guys be on the
field for a long time. People get very like you
said with Kyler, Murray, lazy, not into it, terrifies teams.
Half the leaks is out. The injury stuff is tough
because you're like, well, what if just a weird couple
of years stretch and then he plays seven straight years,
or what if it's just something that snowballs. You really
(53:18):
don't know. You're just completely taking an educated guess. Half
the times the doctors tell you we can't draft this guy.
This guy goes on Navin eight your career and the
doctor tells you to draft this guy. He's got a
degenerate knee. So it's just it's tough. But that is
gonna concern me picking them. But if I picked the Bengals,
isn't Joe Burrows? Yeah, wrist injury that I don't know
(53:38):
if you read about it, it's not like a broken
leg or an ACL that's basically feels like one hundred
percent recovery. It's a much smaller percentage. Not arthritis, but
pain and just the throbbing as you're working back from
it is unavoidable. He's a quarterback, so he kind of
needs to use it. I love watching the guy play,
(53:59):
and he's the only guy in the AFC that went
toe to toe with Mames and took him down on
the road. But like that, that injury is has a
little baseball feel to it, where you're like, that picture
was never the same, right, Yeah, I hope that's not
the case, but it's it's it's scary the volume.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
take a moment rate and review
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