Colin’s top takes of the week!
First, Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight”!
They break down SGA’s game and explain why he is one of the best midrange scorers the league has ever seen (3:30), and react to Kevin Durant being traded to the Houston Rockets, explain why Houston won the trade, and make their predictions for how each team will benefit (11:00).
Then, Colin is joined by Ryen Russillo, host of the Ryen Russillo podcast at The Ringer!
They review the NBA Draft and discuss why the talent entering the draft the past two years has been far more NBA ready after a twenty year drought (30:00).They point to NIL, conference realignment and the transfer portal being a boon for the quality of college sports (47:00).
Finally, they discuss former college coaches like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer transitioning into broadcasting and why they’re so good on TV (57:00).
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
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the ultimate driving machine electrified BMW And you know, I
was thinking about this as you were talking about SJA SGA. Usually,
let's say, for instance, Shaq wasn't hitting his free throws,
he still had all time power. If Kobe and mj
(01:08):
weren't hitting their jumper, they could go vertical Magic Johnson
struggling from the field he just had a size advantage,
he'd back you down. Sga is not a vertical player.
So if he's off and he's off center, he doesn't
have power, he doesn't have speed, he doesn't have he's
(01:30):
not he's not you know, he's strong for his size.
He's not a vertical player. He is a mid range maven.
Like he is all time stuff. And so you know
I've said before is he's an all time scorer. But
he doesn't feel like he's in the Curry class where
you're like, wow, I've never seen a human like Caitlin
(01:51):
Clark's got some of that. You're like, I've never seen that, right, Sga,
I've seen it Alex English, Kiki Vandaway. He's just better
at it. And so I do think you know, when
you play better teams and you can get it off
his game. He has a very centralized game. He's tremendous
at it. But I think we both admit he needs
a friendly whistle, and because he's so gifted, he almost
(02:14):
always gets it. It's not like the Harden whistle, which
is like it feels illegal. That's not it. It's like
that feels unstoppable. Is different than it feels illegal, but
you know he is. I love him. I love his maturity.
He's just a smart, hard working kid. He's impossible not
to root for. I know everybody doesn't like, you know,
(02:35):
all the flopping, but I have a hard time not
rooting for guys who are more mature than their age,
with completely refined games where I can see the work ethic,
I can see the years you've toiled in a gym.
That to me as a grinder, like, I love that
(02:55):
kind of basketball, and I think that's what he embodies.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I think it's fascinating because at his age, you know,
being twenty six, he's kind of in this weird role
that's reminiscent of some of the roles that you've seen
guys like Tom Brady and Lebron be in where they're
the elder statesman in the locker room. He's the elder
statesman in the locker room at twenty six years old.
It's such a bizarre dynamic. But to like, for if
(03:20):
he was an immature player at twenty six, this whole
thing could fall apart because of the youth in that
locker room, and he just brings that veteran presence. This
is the perfect time for us to get into the
Microsoft bit, and I'm gonna kick it back to you.
So welcome to course correction, brought to you guys by Microsoft.
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(03:43):
things right, they must rise to the occasion, turning challenges
into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified
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you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles to face.
In this segment, we will highlight the player everyone that
has risen to the occasion when his team has needed him.
(04:03):
Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
to say, bring it up. Our player of the Week
this week is the twenty twenty five NBA Finals MVP.
It is now official Shake Gil just Alexander Colin. I
was thinking about a cool way to frame this segment,
and all I could think about is, like you mentioned
(04:24):
with the Washington Bullets roster, you know everything for me,
as I'm talking about all time greats is kind of
played through this lens of when I started really following
the league closely, which for me was in the like
around two thousand and five, two thousand and six. You've
been watching a lot of NBA basketball for a really
long time. You've seen a lot of stars come through
the league, as young players leave the league as vets.
(04:46):
What has been like your first impression of Shay Gil
just Alexander as a playoff performer in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
That if I go back to Kareem and the skyhook,
which was unstoppable, unblockable, and he mastered a shot. I'd
never seen a player master a shot when I first
watched Kareem, I can remember as a kid in my
backyard doing it like nobody else shot the hook. Michael
Jordan's mid range game. If you look at a lot
(05:15):
of the great players beyond just scores, they are the
master of their domain. Like I do what I do,
and they're all different looking. There was no other There
was no other Kareem, you know there David Thompson was
a little Michael, but Michael's mid range game he had
three or four stock moves, you know, Tim Duncan. The
(05:39):
great fundamental is that a lot of the all time
great players, and I've said this about Mahomes can be boring.
They have mastered what they do frustratingly so. And I
look at a player who knows exactly what he is,
but more importantly, he knows what he's not and he
(06:01):
leans into all of his skills, and I think when
you watch them play, they can be uneven offensively. The
greatest thing I can say about SGA, he's their clear
dominant number one score. So when you play them, I
don't have to pick Tony Parker Duncan Manu. It's like
stop him and people can't. And that to me is
(06:26):
a fastball like that you know you can beat them.
And Jay Dubb can have thirty two, or Check could
have twenty four, or Lou Dort hits five threes, but
the numbers are if he gets to the free throw line,
they win. Everybody in the league knows it and they
can't stop him. Like that is precision, That is mastering
(06:48):
a craft, and I just I just have great respect
for that.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, the Duncan cop is super fascinating to me because
Shay doesn't have some super demonstrative personality on the court.
He lacks a vertical element to his game. There's nothing
that like like people who play a lot of basketball,
Like I've stolen little bits of footwork and moves from
him that I think are useful moves for young players
to work on. He's he's brought his own little kind
(07:14):
of unique flare to the two guard position, just like
Harden did, just like Wade did, just like Kobe did,
just like MJ did. He's got his own like kind
of unique take on it. But similar to Duncan, even
if there wasn't that you know, overwhelming optical appeal, it's
just surgically effective. And no matter what happened in this
playoff run, the most reliable play type out there was
(07:36):
give the ball to Shay at the nail and he's
probably going to either draw foul or get to a
mid range jump shot that he can hit about fifty
five percent of the time. And you know, you know, Colin,
it has not been a perfect NBA Finals for him.
He had some rough games. But here's the thing. Just
about every star struggles in their first NBA finals. Lebron
struggled in his first two NBA finals. It is an
(07:57):
impossible stage to be to be I shouldn't sy it's
in hospible. It's a very difficult stage to perform well
in and to his credit, every single moment in this
series where things could have gone south. So like Game two,
you're down one zero, you lose.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
That game.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Series is probably over. Game four, you're down to one,
you lose.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That game.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Series is probably over. Game five to to two, you
lose that game. Series is probably over. In Game seven,
series tied. If you lose that game, obviously the series
is over. In every one of those games, I thought
he was awesome. This is actually a hilarious stat Colin.
In the four games where I thought he played poorly,
which was Game one, Game three, Game four, in Game six,
(08:35):
in those games he combined for just nine assists. Okay,
just nine in those four games. In the other three games,
in game two, in game five, and in game seven,
he had thirty thirty assists. He averaged ten in those
three games. And if you watched those games from the start,
just surgical and precise with the way he was navigating
(08:57):
the late double teams, help at the rim, making the
kickouts to three point shooters, the role man, whether it's
Hartenstein er Chet, I thought Shay, to his credit, every
time the team needed him to be great in the series,
he was great. And I think that is the stereotypical
Finals MVP performance. I thought he thoroughly deserved it, and
most players don't even do this well in their first
(09:19):
time around.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well my first impression the Suns were three and seventeen.
When Katie didn't play this year, they stump it wasn't him.
He still get a bucket. If he's a leader in Houston,
it doesn't work. If you need a bucket in Houston,
it works. And I think today you have to look
at the Rockets. My take is he's gonna give you
about sixty five games in the regular season. If we
(09:41):
get two healthy years, then everybody's going to watch Houston
via for the NBA Championship and feel like they dominated
the trade. It is, however, a very good draft, So
Phoenix gets the number two ten pick. Well, many people
are theorizing there are twelve players in this draft, the
top twelve players who are All Star potential, So if
they stay at ten or move up to six or eight,
(10:04):
they're getting a potentially really good player, probably with more
than one year in college. And again, I don't think
anybody will ever unlock Jalen Green, like I think he's
the classic, doesn't have a defined game never probably will,
but we can't deny that he can drop thirty in
any given moment, that he's wildly talented. I don't like
(10:27):
his game, but I'm not going to deny that he's
you know, long, twitchy, fast, very good transition player. He's
just and that there are a lot of these guys
in the NBA. You know, they come in and they're talented,
and maybe either they don't work on their game, or
they don't get the right coaching, or they just they
probably have so much talent from sixth grade on that
(10:50):
they never really there's no catalyst for them to like
really burrow down on a specialized you know, not everybody
is just driven as MJ. Right, I'm reading the Caitlin
Clark book. I mean, that girl's she is MJ. She's obsessed,
and it's just like, not everybody's like that. Some people
are just talented. And so between Aman Thompson and Shangoon's
(11:13):
Beautiful Touch, Kevin Durant and a series of four or
five very good young players, and I think Adokah is
a very good coach, that's a real team. But I
think it's easy to look at Phoenix and just go. Well,
they got Green's productive. Dylan Brooks is a very good
small forward defender can give you seventeen a night. You
(11:35):
got the number ten pick, You got a bunch of
second round picks, which you can turn those into things.
Phoenix wanted her a little bit of a reboot. They
got it. But people on the internet are like, oh,
Houston dominated. If Katie got hurt in game thirty six,
it wouldn't feel like Houston dominated.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
They're not bringing him there to be a foundational piece.
They're bringing him in to get a bucket like. He
will not be the leader is shen Goon will still
be this I think the centerpiece of the team. Aman
Thompson will be your best athlete and your defensive stopper.
He's going to be a bucket guy. So that's why
I think it works. He's still one of the top
(12:15):
twenty three, twenty six best players in the league. I
would argue, I mean, I was on the plane when
I was flying in today, I started writing now numbers
and I got to like twenty one. I'm like, he's
in that space. And again, Phoenix was terrible when he
didn't play. So that's my long winded answer. On. I
think Houston will look like they won the trade, but
(12:37):
Phoenix got assets too.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I think that what happened in Phoenix is a sign that, like, yeah, KD,
Steph Lebron, these guys, they're not floor razors anymore. At
their age, They're not going to turn a bad roster
into a fifty win team the way that twenty seven
year old Nikola Jokic could.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Like That goes without saying I don't.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I do think though, that KD has been dramatically under
rated because he's been on such a poor roster. Yes,
I put this together for you, Colin. This is three
stats to show that Kevin Durant is still one of
the very best players in the NBA. He was the
best jump shooter in the world this year. Among fifty
eight players in the NBA to take at least five
hundred jump shots, Kadi was the only player in the
league to make over half of them, and he in
(13:18):
second place was Shay who made forty five percent. And
if you waited it for threes, his one point two
to two points per shot was still number one in
the NBA number two. He was the only player in
the NBA last year to make at least two hundred
pull up jump shots, meaning off the dribble, while making
more than half of them in three He was far
and away the best isolation player in the world last year.
Out of the ten players ran at least two hundred
(13:39):
fifty ISOs. His one point one to six points per
possession including passes ranked number one in the league, a
full six points per one hundred possessions, ahead of Shay
who was in second place. I think he is when
it comes to refined offensive skill, he is still one
of the very best players in the league. I would
put him in that six to fifteen range, depending on it.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
We haven't seen him.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Play enough high leverage basketball lately to see where he
really lands in there, but I think he's still in
that range. And if you ask me what the Rockets
issue was, this is a deep team with a load
of big, physical athletes. If you ask me what their
one week at weakness was, it's refined offensive skill. And
that's what Kad comes into address. We were just talking
about this with Desmond Baine in the Orlando Magic the
(14:21):
other day. When you take a bunch of big athletes,
the kind of struggle with spacing and you bring in
a guy who like, just run him off a screen
and he's automatically going to pull two defenders out thirty
feet from the basket and unlocks a world of possibilities
on the short role A men Thompson will be an
amazing short role player. You know that thing that Draymond
Green did for Steph where Steph would come off of
(14:42):
Draymond to take two players and then Draymond would go
right down the middle of the floor and make the
play that broke the defense down. That is a thing
that Amen Thompson has been unable to do in Houston
because they just don't generate many of those opportunities because
none of their shooters are good enough. KD will unlock
that part of Amn Thompson's game. It is not a
perfect roster. I was writing down all the names on
(15:02):
the roster today. They're a little light on ball handling,
but that sort of thing they can get. You know
what's so funny, Colin, I remember when the Sun signed
Highest Jones last summer. I was like, why you already
have this redundancy of all these dudes who can dribble
and you're just not athletic enough and you're not good
enough on defense, Like you need athletes and dudes that
can like like beat up people in these physical environments.
(15:23):
You know who could really use highest Jones Houston, like,
I think they should call I think Kevin Durant should
call up Highs tomorrow and be like, hey, dude, come
with me.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah. I think I think Phoenix. I wish Phoenix would
have gotten actually a size. I think Phoenix needs size,
and I think Houston needs a ball handler. And our
takeaway when we watch Golden State beat Houston, we were like, God.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
They're so bad in the AF court offense.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
If you stop shn good, it's over right, like it's
just and so you and I talked about this. He
was a perfect fit there. I thought he worked in
New York because of Jalen Brunson's you know, has the
ball a lot in his hands. I thought he would
work with that offense, whereas Cat can kind of. I
always felt like Cat and Brunson were playing you know,
your turn, my turn, your turn, my turn. Kd's kind
(16:08):
of like I'll sit in I did it with Russ Westbrook.
I'll sit in the corner. Get it to me eventually.
So I think he fits really, really well and I
think they have the coach.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I think.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Again, it's so hard to judge Houston because so much
of their roster is young. I like feel like everybody's
in the fourth inning. Like, I mean, Amen Thompson could
take a big leap. I mean, shn Goon's the only
one where I look at him and I think, oh
that again. I used this word a lot. But that's
a defined and refined offensive game. He's got European touch,
like he has a game. A lot of their players,
(16:42):
I feel like they're just in early innings. I don't
know what they are. So Aman Thompson's obviously defensively defined.
He's so strong and athletic and aggressive. But KD gives
them refinement. This is a second offensive player. I know
exactly what I'm getting. And that's that goes back to
a little Oklahoma city. One of the reasons Indiana gave
(17:05):
OKC problems. Siakam has an offensive half court game, Halliburton does, TJ.
McConnell does. Like, that's three guys, even Obi Toppen. When
he hits threes, You're like, he's athletic and hit threes.
They had guys that they Rick Carlile knew, Okay, this
is what this player does with Houston. Houston's like a
younger OKC. I'm just not sure what everybody is like.
(17:28):
I just need more guys than I go into a
game and go, yeah, I'm going to get twenty fourth
to night from KD and I can draw two or
three plays for him. So Houston to me is early
innings they could end up being. They could end up
looking at If you told me next year a team
explodes in the West and ends up winning by seven
point eight points, I would guess Houston because they have
so many players that are just going to springboard to
(17:49):
another level here in the next fifty to one hundred
basketball games.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, I totally agree. I think they have massive upside.
I think they could very easily be the second best
team in the West and the biggest threat to the
thunder new this year. I think that's absolutely on the table.
They match up well with OKC too, because they have
all the big physical size. The ball handling will be
the weakness, as we saw with Indiana. Even Oklahoma City
struggled because of their lack of depth and ball handling
against Indiana's ball pressure. But the youth the thing that
(18:14):
you're talking about in terms of the wide range of
outcomes is super interesting because as I was breaking down
their depth chart today, I'm looking at it and I'm like, Okay,
Fred van Vliet, legit point guard. You know, Shane gun center,
Kd's your four, Amen, Thompson. I think defensively functions as
either a two or three, so that could be either.
But then it's like Jabari Smith Jr. Is kind of
(18:35):
a four. He plays basically the same position as Kadie.
I don't think he moves his feet well enough to
be a three. Cam Whittmore could be one of those guys.
Reed Shepherd could be one of those guys, but like
who knows. And here's the other thing to call it.
Houston gave up one first round draft pick in this deal.
They still have a boat load of first round draft
picks at their disposal, so they're high. They're like a
(18:57):
high likelihood for like a we bring this team into
we watch him for twenty games, and we go, oh,
here are the two things we're missing.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Exactly right, Let's go get what we need to get.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Like they are, they're extremely well equipped heading into this
next season.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's where Houston won the trade, they didn't have to
give up another first round pick. That that's where they
won the trade. It's not just KD because my guess
is because of their depth, they won't play Kadi more
than like sixty to sixty five games. They want him
for the postseason. There's no reason to play him seventy
five eighty games. Because they also know if you're in
(19:30):
the West, Jason, you know you're going to be in
long series. So there's no you know you're going to
be in six game series.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
In the West.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's not like the East where you kind of feel
like if Aliberton comes back next year, they're just certain
you're gonna win a lot of series really quickly. You're
gonna have long series in the West, no reason to
have you know, I want KD going into the playoffs,
you know, off about a two games and nine day stretch,
healthy and ready to go. And I think you have
(19:58):
to think about that as a GM with an older
play in the West, if you have a Steph a KD,
all these series are long series.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
If they get a couple more ball handlers, like that's
the thing, Like if they get a Tyas Jones, if
they get you know, one other guy of that ILK,
then they will be able to rest Kde not just
for the regular season, but even in the postseason. Like
we saw, Houston give themselves a really good chance to
win games even without high level offensive skill because they
just go, here's Tarry Eason and and Amen Thompson and
(20:24):
we're picking up full court and you're turning the ball
over now and it's a mess. Like they are able,
like they are able to prevent the redundancy that Phoenix had,
where you have a bunch of guys who do.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
The same thing.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
On Houston, what KD does is so specialized for them
that they kind of have an identity separate, separate from him,
so they will be able to win games without him.
They will be able to carry the load so that
he can come in and lift them over the top.
I think it's a I think it's a fantastic on
paper basketball fit. It'll be ugly sometimes, Kadie's gonna have
some nights where maybe the statistical performance isn't there because
(21:00):
it's ugly. They can't space the floor as well for him,
But they will in turn do the same thing to
the other team. So to buy Kevin that margin for
air before we get out of here tonight, Coln, I
didn't want to run this by you because I've seen
a lot of victory lapping criticism. You know, let's just
say the Phoenix Suns have been the butt of the
(21:20):
joke today because they took McHale Bridges and Cam Johnson
and Chris Paul and they turned him into basically Bradley
Beal and Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green in one first
round pick. I get that it looks bad. Here's where
this is where my brain went this morning. They made
(21:43):
it to the finals a year where because of COVID
everyone was hurt, and we had a tray Young Hawks
team in the conference finals, a Paul George Clippers team
with an injured Kawhi in the conference finals, and that
Son's team. And by the way, they ran into Giannis,
and Giannis beat them four straight times for the title.
(22:04):
So they weren't good enough. Then the next year they
kind of have a great regular season and Luca like
embarrasses them, like embarrasses them for the world to see.
In the second round, they weren't good enough, so they
made an aggressive trade. They went and got Kevin Durant.
Every one of us would have done the same thing.
(22:24):
At that point in time. It was Kevin Durant and
we had just seen him be so amazing for Brooklyn
in those couple of previous playoff runs. Even the Chris
Paul thing that I would argue they should have used
Chris Paul's salary as a vehicle with which to bring
in more size and athleticism. But you're like Chris Paul
for Bradley Beal, Like, I mean, come on right, you
(22:44):
could talk yourself into it.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Again.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
It wasn't perfect. There were mistakes. There are certain things
I would have done differently. But now we're on the
other side of this and it's like self awareness. We're
not good enough. We just missed the playoffs in the
Western Conference, like Katie misses a few games and we
completely fall apart. I understand it looks bad when you
zoom out, but to me, what happened to Phoenix is
just what happens when you get aggressive and it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So I said today on the show, I said, listen,
I'm not going to come in hot on the draft
because it's a projection draft. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I mean,
I just I said, I think Cooper. Flag's really good.
I think he's a more aggressive, better defender right now
at this point than Tatum. I said, I think.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
He's really good.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
He's not good as Tatum, he's really good. The kid
from Baylor. He's a disruptor defensively, looks like he's going
one thousand miles an hour. I'm like, that's an NBA athlete.
Is he going to score a lot?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I thought the Spurs did pretty well. What I do
think and I've talked about this a lot, and I
want your reaction. I've been on this now for about
two months. There was about a twenty year period. So
you and I grew up with the Big East, and
if you were a great player in the biggiest Pearl
Washington sort of an exception, or if you're a great team,
(24:06):
you were going to be an NBA player. Youwing was
going to be great in the NBA. I mean, just
the way it was. There was about a twenty year
one in college basketball when the G League happened. Guys
went to Europe, played one year of college where like
Doug McDermott was the college player of the Year, Tyler
Hansborough was you go to the pros and they were
rotational guys. And then two years ago I watched Yukon
(24:29):
and I went, oh, shit, there's seven NBA players. They
have NBA length, They are great. These are great players.
And I thought, oh, that team could play with you
and LV and Duke. That is a real team. And
the reason it happened was guys are staying maybe a
year longer with an IL. Now American universities are poaching
(24:50):
European players. I honestly feel like the last two years
when I've watched college, we had a twenty year period.
We were trying to pretend the sport was good. And
Jay Billis said, this their day. NBA guys don't miss
open shots. Like it's just the seven foot guy shoots
better than the six to two guy in college. And
I do feel like the NIL for all the bitching
(25:12):
about it. Rick Bettino said, this here day, it's kind
of made the G League irrelevant. Shit, I watched the
playoffs Indiana, Oklahoma City. You no G League guys, I
mean a men. Thompson's one of the only G League
unite guys. It's like the second two year college guys,
three year college guys che holmgrun one year probably should
have stayed a second because his offensive games hit and miss.
(25:33):
But I do feel like the last two years I've
watched college and I think this will help the draft
Ryan because it won't all be Euros. It'll even the
Euros are coming and playing now at Texas, They're coming
to play at Connecticut. I feel like college basketball was
kind of unwatchable for twenty years and people kept saying, Oh,
it's great. It wasn't it was diluted, it was bad.
(25:55):
In the last two years, I've been glued to March
Madness and it's just more NBA dudes.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
College basketball is a weird spot because, you know, growing up,
I probably would rather watch Big.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Monday than NBA.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
You know, back when it was the Big East, and
then you know, it was packed ten teams that were
loaded with NBA players, you know, going back to those
UCLA squads, remember Washington State loving that team that year.
Robbie cal Gill, Well, I guess you want to talk
about the NBA guys, So shout out to Robbie. But
I I'm I'm with you because I think I even remember,
(26:29):
like you and gottlieb arguing it a bit about it
being like, hey, look, college basketball is largely irrelevant up
until we get to March, and with everything feeling like
it has to be an event, which I think Silver's
doing with the NBA, it's like, hey, we've got the
n season tournament.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
We've got plan like we have more.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Almost like specialty events that we can partner in different ways,
Like we're kind of just titling some of the same stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
But you know, if this means more revenue, then that's
the game.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
And even though like I've talked about baseball with this
being like, hey, be really happier this utibly successful local
market thing, and that your playoffs are an incredible product
and you just hope that you have enough storylines to
carry over that secondary interest. The tournament doesn't necessarily need
all these crazy storylines because the event itself is still
(27:15):
one of the greatest sporting events in the world. But
your right to point out like whether it was ignite.
You know with Scoop, they had Dyson, they had Hardy,
Jalen Green, Kaminga, and then you had the amen usre
Thompson deal with overtime. I think, yeah, it felt it
(27:35):
was starting to feel like, Okay, this is like even
more tenuous for a product that was already really struggling
with its regular season in college basketball. So I think
the tournament has always been something everybody's always going to
care about because it's basically like a football version of
gambling in a different sport where it's just so much
fun and you almost feel left out of American society
if you're not in the tournament. I don't know that
(27:57):
they're ever going to recover any of that stuff from
the regular season. But the draft trends of what was
happening with guys circumventing college because of the compensation going
to New Zealand, you know, playing in the Australian League
and then come back here like it hurt yeh draft
wise for you to have eight what college guys before
(28:17):
s singay well S and Gay went eleventh, so well, no,
Colin went well you went eleventh.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Yeah, yeah, and the other guy went ninth to Toronto
and even jag or Demon you know he comes from Russia,
but he's at BYU because of the nil stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Whatever it was. And I don't I don't know all of.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
A sudden if everybody's going to be prioritizing regular season
college basketball over the NBA. But there was something that
was incredibly fearful as these other alternatives that the NIL
has helped college basketball solve in the short term.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, no, I just I watched the draft last and
I watched the yukon a couple of years ago, and
I watched March Madness, and I'm like, ohkay, I'm back
into the sport. Like and I've always been sort of
loyal to the number. Like I stopped talking college football
for about ten years because it was Alabama Clemson in
Georgia and I felt like nobody Denver West gives a
(29:19):
you know what. And I remember when the Pac twelve
sort of when USC decided we're going in Ucla. I
got a call. I was in Turks and Kkos with
my family and Eric Shanks called me and said, just
want to give you a heads up. This is going
to be announced in about three hours. I was in
an airport and I couldn't tell anybody, but I started
doing some social and having our staff get ready for it.
And I remember thinking, oh, I can talk college I
(29:41):
can talk college football again, you know, like, oh, USC
is going to a conference. And then and then there
was a lot of talk even then about Washington Oregon
getting in. I'm like, Okay, that's a real conference that
they'll be able to compete. They'll get some Midwest kids,
they'll get Big ten money, they'll be more fortified because
the PAC twelve was paying at thirty million year, big tens.
Pania seventy USC was complaining to me, it's like, we
(30:04):
can't compete with anybody. We have the money, and so
like I feel like, you know, I just follow what
the audience is following. And I would see those numbers
for Alabama couldn't sell off some home games. I would
see some of those numbers, and it was like people
were getting tired of it. I was getting tired of it.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
So Alabama, though, I don't know, I'm going back on that.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Alabama was an incredibly spoilt fan base to the point
where SABAN had a beg fans for day games to
come in on some of those lower level matchups because
they just suspected a national championship every time. I mean,
it's the only campus that I'd ever been to when
I used to travel a college game day because I
did the radio part of it along with TV, where
it was the only it was the only campus that'd
be like, oh, game Bays here again. Whatever, you know,
(30:48):
I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep in you know, every other place.
It's like a not even a national holiday because you
know it might not ever be coming back. So as
you say that, though, like, let's be honest, would you
have avoided talking college football based on some numbers if
you were still at ESPN because I sensed an SEC
mid ten shift there, buddy when you started, when you started, uh,
(31:10):
we get somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
No, well, no, I would. I would say this is
that Klatt is a big notice and so yeah, so
I'm I was always I said this for years. SEC
is the best. They went on recruiting day, they went
on Draft Day, they went on Saturday. That's the best.
I don't want to hear it, but I did notice
(31:34):
about four years ago and when the NIL started, and
there's a lot of money in those big ten schools.
Those are sixty thousand student body. A lot of those
graduates do very well. I started noticing like four years ago.
I'm like, yeah, people are poaching Georgia and Bama and
they don't like I think Nick Saban realized, like before
Texas came in it's like, oh shit, Texas is bigger
(31:54):
than Alabama. Texas looked better than Alabama. So about four
years ago I started saying and then it was it
was the Harbaugh team before they won. I'm like, yeah,
I think that's they're as good as Georgia. Like I'm
watching the Saturday and I'm like, they got like ten
NFL guys, you know all over the field. Georgia maybe
has twelve. So I do think about four years ago,
(32:17):
I just watched the games and it's like, you know,
when I first started watching Caitlyn Clark, I was just like, well, shit,
she's shooting from thirty three feet. That doesn't even make it.
I mean, the line's twenty two. So I tend to
trust my eyes. And when the Big Ten, when Harbaugh's
team the year before they won, I was like, oh
they caught up. At least the top of the Big
ten's as good as the top as the SEC.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, I've heard this.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
I actually think people are like more unfair and how
they critique the SEC than it is about being pro
sec because I just see a lot of media members
that all have Big Ten backgrounds that have been like
incredibly celebratory about what's happened the last couple of years.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Now I've heard the nil theory.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
I think Saban would have figured it out if he
was motivated to figure it out, but.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
He may have been right.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
You've been there since two thousand and nine or no,
two thousand and seven, excuse me, two thousand and seven,
that first year where they lost to Louisiana Monroe. So
now I'm trying to remember if I have that year right.
I feel like I feel like I'm messing up a
year because I would have been on college game day
for Tumberville Iron Bowl they got smoked. I think that
would have been two thousand and eight. So anyway, I
(33:25):
gotta look that up.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I need I need more results, I need more parody.
I mean I need more.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Balance because you know, the people that didn't like the
SEC still didn't like the SEC when they had seven
different national or excuse me, seven national.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Championships in a row.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
You could run through four or five programs, You're like, Okay,
they could win a national championship. They're playing for a
national championship. It didn't feel like the other conferences could
be that deep. Certainly the Big Ten is in the
conversation now, especially when you add a team like Oregon,
you could say, hey, you're also adding Washington, who plays
in a national championship two years ago, so that puts
them on the probable list, even if that is probably
more of an aberration for that program and just having
(34:01):
an incredible year where everything kind.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Of came together.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
So you might be entirely right about the balance of
it flattening out the top here a little bit. But
I guess for the people that I know hated the
SEC so much, they were still arguing against the conference
when they were winning all these titles. And so now
if the standard is that, yeah, I wasn't one standards
that the Big I was won back to back with
(34:25):
two different teams the first time in eighty years, then
the thing that you said didn't even matter when they
were winning is now the thing that matters the most,
because you could also you could also just say, hey,
the SEC had an awful quarterback year. So maybe there
is this shift, a shift that's long overdue. You know,
sports are cyclical. Maybe the Big ten's about to have
(34:46):
this incredible run. But it's very hard for me to
say that because of the national championship results and look
Tennessee looked just fucking frigid against Ohio State that looked
like a football team that was not interested in competing,
and they get trucked.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah, in that game.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
I just have a hard time on like the people
that do this for a living, that are on the
evaluation side, they're like, that's still the best.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Conference, Like are you like, what's what's going on?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I think the sixth best team I think I think
I will say this year, I think about the sixth
best team in the Big Ten will be Washington and
I think the sixth best team in the SEC could
be Oklahoma. And so that to me is where about
I think about where we're at. I think I think
they're both and if they played, it's a go either
(35:36):
way game. Whoever is at home wins because I think
Penn State's gonna win it. I have I picked. I
remember when Ohio State lost to Michigan, I said, my
favorite part about college football is Ohio State's going to
lose as a twenty point favorite in their last big
game and they're going to get into the tournament. And
by the way, Kansas City the year they won the
Super Bowl two years ago, got beat by Oakland in
(35:57):
like weeks sixteen or Las Vegas, and I'm like, yeah,
they should be in the playoffs. I don't care, just
like putting the best teams in. I got Penn State
winning it. Singleton's amazing, Drew Aller is getting better. I
think that the best backfield by a mile in college sports.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Just to clean it up, it was two thousand and
eight Iron Bowl, Tubberville did get smoked and that was
his last season, so that's I remember just being down
there for that. But Saban had already been there obviously
the previous year when he had the bad record and
people were like, is this guy really going to be
that good?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
He's really good on TV by the way.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah, I think he you know, I think he wants to.
He takes it really seriously. Yes, yeah, like he's he's
in you know, I know a couple of guys that
are really close with him, that are with them all
the time when they're on the road, and he is
like adamant about making sure the stuff that he's talking about,
(36:51):
like he's he's not just out there like he cares,
he actually cares, like what are we doing similar they
doing it? Which actually makes the most sense. Ever, if
you know anything about the guy where I remember this
story because I've been down there a bunch of different times,
and I really loved I just have so much respect
for Saban.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
I've loved interviewing him. I always hated any.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Belichick comp because I was like, Belichick is not interesting,
Like he goes out of his way to not be interesting,
and that's like the game he's playing, and Saban is
really thoughtful, and for whatever reason, people try to like
lump them in because they were both successful.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And had kind of this tip it.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
They're not the same guy, and I think the world
the Saban and it seems like whatever he's going to do,
he wants to make sure, like, Okay, what's what's the
best possible way for us to go ahead and do it?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Which is exactly the way he runs a football program.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Well, well yeah, that's when Urban Meyer is a friend
of mine and like Urban watches film? Did I ever
tell you my Urban? And that's when Urban comes on
the show, Mine like I will talk to him before
the break, I'm like, have you wont he will have
watched film? I never forget Years ago when LSU played
Ohio State, Jim Trussell was the coach, and I saw
(38:01):
Urban I can tell this story now. I saw Urban
in I think he was at Florida or was leaving
or I forget what it was, but I think he
was at Florida at the time again.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Because they just was he the National championship the year before.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yep, and they were LSU was playing Ohio State, and
I caught him in the hallway. He went on for
about eight minutes. He literally described the game. He said,
Ohio State will move the ball early. Mo Clorette had
a big run early, I think for a touchdown. He said, Ultimately,
LSU's got about twice as many good receivers, twice as
many good running backs. They'll wear them down, they'll pull
(38:39):
away in the second half, and they'll win by like fourteen.
And he went like for eight to ten minutes. He literally,
I mean he'd watched film for both teams. He literally
he recited the game. So I took that and went
on the game and talked about the game, basically using
all of his stuff and say, hey, listen, I just
talked to somebody I trust. Blah blah blah. It made
me sound so small, but he I liked these ex
(39:02):
coaches because a lot of times. I mean, Sable will
watch film before that Saturday show. Urban will go and
watch film and break it down like a coach, and
it's and they're so freed, right, there's no pressure. They're
watching film now without an agenda not to protect anything.
And I think both those guys provide something that film
(39:24):
knowledge that's really valuable to me as a consumer.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, so LSU wanted, you know seven when they had
the second loss.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Remember that was the year in two thousand and seven
where UCF Boston College or ranked number two West Virginia if.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
They'd beaten Pitt. It's still one of my favorite college
football years ever because whenever you go through any like
the research packets for the upcoming weekend, it'll be like,
this is the last time. The last time this happened
was in two thousand and seven, because like two thousand
and seven was a free for all, and even though
LSU had that second loss, they're like, look, we're just
going to vote this team back in. I remember Trussell
after the fact saying that was a game. When we
were preparing for it, we knew we had no chance.
(39:58):
And then they lose to Ohio State eight. Excuse me,
Ohastate loses the flora the next year, and that was
the thing.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Like, this is the Big ten argument. This is the
pro big ten argument.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
That for years we were conditioned, like remember the Alabama
Michigan State games where you were just go jesus.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Oh, thirty four nothing or thirty five seven.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Isn't happening as much anymore, okay. And that's not just
about the Michigan and Ohio state national championships, and I
think they're kind of like further, the point is that
we may be on the cusp of this thing that
like is real. It's just so hard for me to
think that, like there's going to be another region.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Why though, So here's my take on this. Alabama's doing
car washes and bake sales, and Ohio State's not big
ten schools. Most SEC schools are smaller schools. I think
Auburn's like is it sixteen eighteen thousand? Wisconsino are like
small cities, man, I mean it's nuts. And they all
(41:01):
those graduates go all across the America and they go
to New York in LA and they make a bunch
of money and they give it back. It's much easier
for these big ten schools. I mean, USC is now
spending twenty million dollars innil. They're twenty twenty six class.
They just went and bought this insane class. And that's
just because of NIL. That's not because they suddenly figured
(41:23):
out how to recruit. They've got money. And so now
the big ten's got Seattle, Los Angeles, Columbus. You know
these are massive. I mean, Penn State's got Philadelphia and
New York graduates everywhere. SCC is a lot of small towns,
and I just don't think the NIL money. I mean,
(41:45):
I just don't think they have the NIL money in
most instance. So I think Georgia does, but I don't
think a lot of teams do. George is also closest
to the biggest city in the South, Atlanta. Well there's
more money, more attorneys, more doctors, more you know, venture
capitalists in Atlanta in the South, and they're Georgia.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
I do think sometimes too, You'll have.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
You know, it's a very human nature thing, but you
become motivated by something that you don't think you can
get as opposed to expecting it, right, I mean it's
the King of the Mountain.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Analogy here where you know, as Georgia.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Is motivated to spend when they put together these these runs,
like what if Alabama's not in the playoff for ten years?
What do you think, like what do you think that
nil is going to be like or whatever? You know,
like Ohio State after losing to Michigan before the season,
and it's still This is one of the things I
think with college football that even though people love the expansion,
I don't. It's more of a reflection of how much
(42:40):
I hate the realignment. I've already done these rants far
too many times. But I'm watching your network and it's
Ohio State Michigan and the broadcast is like this is
for everything, and it's like, yeah, except it isn't because
Ohio State's going to lose this and then win a
national championship and I will forever miss that that is
not on the line. But yes, it doesn't ruin my
enjoyment of this incredible rivalry and what was like an ugly, awesome,
(43:03):
just a brutal game and you know, the emotions that
game are just like they're on the TV screens.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
It's a fucking awesome product.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
But when I think about, you know, how State this
past offseason and grabbing Caleb downs as soon as savings.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Out of there, going to get Will Howard, which you.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Know at the time, remember like the summer, it was
a bit of an argument like, hey, well if he
was that special, like why is this guy leaving k
State and all these things, and it just works and
we knew that it was supposedly this twenty million dollar program.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Is this about?
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Ohio States should always be able to fund all this
stuff if you name the top blue blood programs, the
places where it matters the most. I don't know that
this is ever going to be an issue, but there
is something about that void. There is something about feeling
like this is bullshit that motivates you in a way
that's that's just hard to replicate when you're used to
all the success. So I think that's what will probably
happen amongst the top schools.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It's just a matter of like, how many.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Of these top programs do you think will have access
to maybe a spending spree and look, apparently now we
have a cap at twenty million for an entire academic department. Yeah,
good luck figuring that one out. Good luck being the
tennis coach, you know, like, hey, she really like this
kid from Choate. You're like, yeah, well we our guy
(44:19):
needs a six defensive back.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
So sorry, Yeah, that thing a bit of a circus.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, well I told you it was only gonna take
thirty minutes, but that's not We can't talk for thirty
This fucking thing's already gone an hour.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Sorry. I didn't mean to do that.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I really didn't. I want to. I know you're busy.
I know you got to do like sixteen local hits
and spoken it's available.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Are the Sonics coming back? So well? No, man, I
just love love talking to you. Know how I feel
about you. So whatever you need, same here, all right, buddy,
appreciate it.
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the ultimate driving machine electrified BMW And you know, I
was thinking about this as you were talking about SJA SGA. Usually,
let's say, for instance, Shaq wasn't hitting his free throws,
he still had all time power. If Kobe and mj
(01:08):
weren't hitting their jumper, they could go vertical Magic Johnson
struggling from the field he just had a size advantage,
he'd back you down. Sga is not a vertical player.
So if he's off and he's off center, he doesn't
have power, he doesn't have speed, he doesn't have he's
(01:30):
not he's not you know, he's strong for his size.
He's not a vertical player. He is a mid range maven.
Like he is all time stuff. And so you know
I've said before is he's an all time scorer. But
he doesn't feel like he's in the Curry class where
you're like, wow, I've never seen a human like Caitlin
(01:51):
Clark's got some of that. You're like, I've never seen that, right, Sga,
I've seen it Alex English, Kiki Vandaway. He's just better
at it. And so I do think you know, when
you play better teams and you can get it off
his game. He has a very centralized game. He's tremendous
at it. But I think we both admit he needs
a friendly whistle, and because he's so gifted, he almost
(02:14):
always gets it. It's not like the Harden whistle, which
is like it feels illegal. That's not it. It's like
that feels unstoppable. Is different than it feels illegal, but
you know he is. I love him. I love his maturity.
He's just a smart, hard working kid. He's impossible not
to root for. I know everybody doesn't like, you know,
(02:35):
all the flopping, but I have a hard time not
rooting for guys who are more mature than their age,
with completely refined games where I can see the work ethic,
I can see the years you've toiled in a gym.
That to me as a grinder, like, I love that
(02:55):
kind of basketball, and I think that's what he embodies.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I think it's fascinating because at his age, you know,
being twenty six, he's kind of in this weird role
that's reminiscent of some of the roles that you've seen
guys like Tom Brady and Lebron be in where they're
the elder statesman in the locker room. He's the elder
statesman in the locker room at twenty six years old.
It's such a bizarre dynamic. But to like, for if
(03:20):
he was an immature player at twenty six, this whole
thing could fall apart because of the youth in that
locker room, and he just brings that veteran presence. This
is the perfect time for us to get into the
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It is now official Shake Gil just Alexander Colin. I
was thinking about a cool way to frame this segment,
and all I could think about is, like you mentioned
(04:24):
with the Washington Bullets roster, you know everything for me,
as I'm talking about all time greats is kind of
played through this lens of when I started really following
the league closely, which for me was in the like
around two thousand and five, two thousand and six. You've
been watching a lot of NBA basketball for a really
long time. You've seen a lot of stars come through
the league, as young players leave the league as vets.
(04:46):
What has been like your first impression of Shay Gil
just Alexander as a playoff performer in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
That if I go back to Kareem and the skyhook,
which was unstoppable, unblockable, and he mastered a shot. I'd
never seen a player master a shot when I first
watched Kareem, I can remember as a kid in my
backyard doing it like nobody else shot the hook. Michael
Jordan's mid range game. If you look at a lot
(05:15):
of the great players beyond just scores, they are the
master of their domain. Like I do what I do,
and they're all different looking. There was no other There
was no other Kareem, you know there David Thompson was
a little Michael, but Michael's mid range game he had
three or four stock moves, you know, Tim Duncan. The
(05:39):
great fundamental is that a lot of the all time
great players, and I've said this about Mahomes can be boring.
They have mastered what they do frustratingly so. And I
look at a player who knows exactly what he is,
but more importantly, he knows what he's not and he
(06:01):
leans into all of his skills, and I think when
you watch them play, they can be uneven offensively. The
greatest thing I can say about SGA, he's their clear
dominant number one score. So when you play them, I
don't have to pick Tony Parker Duncan Manu. It's like
stop him and people can't. And that to me is
(06:26):
a fastball like that you know you can beat them.
And Jay Dubb can have thirty two, or Check could
have twenty four, or Lou Dort hits five threes, but
the numbers are if he gets to the free throw line,
they win. Everybody in the league knows it and they
can't stop him. Like that is precision, That is mastering
(06:48):
a craft, and I just I just have great respect
for that.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, the Duncan cop is super fascinating to me because
Shay doesn't have some super demonstrative personality on the court.
He lacks a vertical element to his game. There's nothing
that like like people who play a lot of basketball,
Like I've stolen little bits of footwork and moves from
him that I think are useful moves for young players
to work on. He's he's brought his own little kind
(07:14):
of unique flare to the two guard position, just like
Harden did, just like Wade did, just like Kobe did,
just like MJ did. He's got his own like kind
of unique take on it. But similar to Duncan, even
if there wasn't that you know, overwhelming optical appeal, it's
just surgically effective. And no matter what happened in this
playoff run, the most reliable play type out there was
(07:36):
give the ball to Shay at the nail and he's
probably going to either draw foul or get to a
mid range jump shot that he can hit about fifty
five percent of the time. And you know, you know, Colin,
it has not been a perfect NBA Finals for him.
He had some rough games. But here's the thing. Just
about every star struggles in their first NBA finals. Lebron
struggled in his first two NBA finals. It is an
(07:57):
impossible stage to be to be I shouldn't sy it's
in hospible. It's a very difficult stage to perform well
in and to his credit, every single moment in this
series where things could have gone south. So like Game two,
you're down one zero, you lose.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
That game.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Series is probably over. Game four, you're down to one,
you lose.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
That game.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Series is probably over. Game five to to two, you
lose that game. Series is probably over. In Game seven,
series tied. If you lose that game, obviously the series
is over. In every one of those games, I thought
he was awesome. This is actually a hilarious stat Colin.
In the four games where I thought he played poorly,
which was Game one, Game three, Game four, in Game six,
(08:35):
in those games he combined for just nine assists. Okay,
just nine in those four games. In the other three games,
in game two, in game five, and in game seven,
he had thirty thirty assists. He averaged ten in those
three games. And if you watched those games from the start,
just surgical and precise with the way he was navigating
(08:57):
the late double teams, help at the rim, making the
kickouts to three point shooters, the role man, whether it's
Hartenstein er Chet, I thought Shay, to his credit, every
time the team needed him to be great in the series,
he was great. And I think that is the stereotypical
Finals MVP performance. I thought he thoroughly deserved it, and
most players don't even do this well in their first
(09:19):
time around.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well my first impression the Suns were three and seventeen.
When Katie didn't play this year, they stump it wasn't him.
He still get a bucket. If he's a leader in Houston,
it doesn't work. If you need a bucket in Houston,
it works. And I think today you have to look
at the Rockets. My take is he's gonna give you
about sixty five games in the regular season. If we
(09:41):
get two healthy years, then everybody's going to watch Houston
via for the NBA Championship and feel like they dominated
the trade. It is, however, a very good draft, So
Phoenix gets the number two ten pick. Well, many people
are theorizing there are twelve players in this draft, the
top twelve players who are All Star potential, So if
they stay at ten or move up to six or eight,
(10:04):
they're getting a potentially really good player, probably with more
than one year in college. And again, I don't think
anybody will ever unlock Jalen Green, like I think he's
the classic, doesn't have a defined game never probably will,
but we can't deny that he can drop thirty in
any given moment, that he's wildly talented. I don't like
(10:27):
his game, but I'm not going to deny that he's
you know, long, twitchy, fast, very good transition player. He's
just and that there are a lot of these guys
in the NBA. You know, they come in and they're talented,
and maybe either they don't work on their game, or
they don't get the right coaching, or they just they
probably have so much talent from sixth grade on that
(10:50):
they never really there's no catalyst for them to like
really burrow down on a specialized you know, not everybody
is just driven as MJ. Right, I'm reading the Caitlin
Clark book. I mean, that girl's she is MJ. She's obsessed,
and it's just like, not everybody's like that. Some people
are just talented. And so between Aman Thompson and Shangoon's
(11:13):
Beautiful Touch, Kevin Durant and a series of four or
five very good young players, and I think Adokah is
a very good coach, that's a real team. But I
think it's easy to look at Phoenix and just go. Well,
they got Green's productive. Dylan Brooks is a very good
small forward defender can give you seventeen a night. You
(11:35):
got the number ten pick, You got a bunch of
second round picks, which you can turn those into things.
Phoenix wanted her a little bit of a reboot. They
got it. But people on the internet are like, oh,
Houston dominated. If Katie got hurt in game thirty six,
it wouldn't feel like Houston dominated.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
They're not bringing him there to be a foundational piece.
They're bringing him in to get a bucket like. He
will not be the leader is shen Goon will still
be this I think the centerpiece of the team. Aman
Thompson will be your best athlete and your defensive stopper.
He's going to be a bucket guy. So that's why
I think it works. He's still one of the top
(12:15):
twenty three, twenty six best players in the league. I
would argue, I mean, I was on the plane when
I was flying in today, I started writing now numbers
and I got to like twenty one. I'm like, he's
in that space. And again, Phoenix was terrible when he
didn't play. So that's my long winded answer. On. I
think Houston will look like they won the trade, but
(12:37):
Phoenix got assets too.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I think that what happened in Phoenix is a sign that, like, yeah, KD,
Steph Lebron, these guys, they're not floor razors anymore. At
their age, They're not going to turn a bad roster
into a fifty win team the way that twenty seven
year old Nikola Jokic could.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Like That goes without saying I don't.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I do think though, that KD has been dramatically under
rated because he's been on such a poor roster. Yes,
I put this together for you, Colin. This is three
stats to show that Kevin Durant is still one of
the very best players in the NBA. He was the
best jump shooter in the world this year. Among fifty
eight players in the NBA to take at least five
hundred jump shots, Kadi was the only player in the
league to make over half of them, and he in
(13:18):
second place was Shay who made forty five percent. And
if you waited it for threes, his one point two
to two points per shot was still number one in
the NBA number two. He was the only player in
the NBA last year to make at least two hundred
pull up jump shots, meaning off the dribble, while making
more than half of them in three He was far
and away the best isolation player in the world last year.
Out of the ten players ran at least two hundred
(13:39):
fifty ISOs. His one point one to six points per
possession including passes ranked number one in the league, a
full six points per one hundred possessions, ahead of Shay
who was in second place. I think he is when
it comes to refined offensive skill, he is still one
of the very best players in the league. I would
put him in that six to fifteen range, depending on it.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
We haven't seen him.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Play enough high leverage basketball lately to see where he
really lands in there, but I think he's still in
that range. And if you ask me what the Rockets
issue was, this is a deep team with a load
of big, physical athletes. If you ask me what their
one week at weakness was, it's refined offensive skill. And
that's what Kad comes into address. We were just talking
about this with Desmond Baine in the Orlando Magic the
(14:21):
other day. When you take a bunch of big athletes,
the kind of struggle with spacing and you bring in
a guy who like, just run him off a screen
and he's automatically going to pull two defenders out thirty
feet from the basket and unlocks a world of possibilities
on the short role A men Thompson will be an
amazing short role player. You know that thing that Draymond
Green did for Steph where Steph would come off of
(14:42):
Draymond to take two players and then Draymond would go
right down the middle of the floor and make the
play that broke the defense down. That is a thing
that Amen Thompson has been unable to do in Houston
because they just don't generate many of those opportunities because
none of their shooters are good enough. KD will unlock
that part of Amn Thompson's game. It is not a
perfect roster. I was writing down all the names on
(15:02):
the roster today. They're a little light on ball handling,
but that sort of thing they can get. You know
what's so funny, Colin, I remember when the Sun signed
Highest Jones last summer. I was like, why you already
have this redundancy of all these dudes who can dribble
and you're just not athletic enough and you're not good
enough on defense, Like you need athletes and dudes that
can like like beat up people in these physical environments.
(15:23):
You know who could really use highest Jones Houston, like,
I think they should call I think Kevin Durant should
call up Highs tomorrow and be like, hey, dude, come
with me.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah. I think I think Phoenix. I wish Phoenix would
have gotten actually a size. I think Phoenix needs size,
and I think Houston needs a ball handler. And our
takeaway when we watch Golden State beat Houston, we were like, God.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
They're so bad in the AF court offense.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
If you stop shn good, it's over right, like it's
just and so you and I talked about this. He
was a perfect fit there. I thought he worked in
New York because of Jalen Brunson's you know, has the
ball a lot in his hands. I thought he would
work with that offense, whereas Cat can kind of. I
always felt like Cat and Brunson were playing you know,
your turn, my turn, your turn, my turn. Kd's kind
(16:08):
of like I'll sit in I did it with Russ Westbrook.
I'll sit in the corner. Get it to me eventually.
So I think he fits really, really well and I
think they have the coach.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I think.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Again, it's so hard to judge Houston because so much
of their roster is young. I like feel like everybody's
in the fourth inning. Like, I mean, Amen Thompson could
take a big leap. I mean, shn Goon's the only
one where I look at him and I think, oh
that again. I used this word a lot. But that's
a defined and refined offensive game. He's got European touch,
like he has a game. A lot of their players,
(16:42):
I feel like they're just in early innings. I don't
know what they are. So Aman Thompson's obviously defensively defined.
He's so strong and athletic and aggressive. But KD gives
them refinement. This is a second offensive player. I know
exactly what I'm getting. And that's that goes back to
a little Oklahoma city. One of the reasons Indiana gave
(17:05):
OKC problems. Siakam has an offensive half court game, Halliburton does, TJ.
McConnell does. Like, that's three guys, even Obi Toppen. When
he hits threes, You're like, he's athletic and hit threes.
They had guys that they Rick Carlile knew, Okay, this
is what this player does with Houston. Houston's like a
younger OKC. I'm just not sure what everybody is like.
(17:28):
I just need more guys than I go into a
game and go, yeah, I'm going to get twenty fourth
to night from KD and I can draw two or
three plays for him. So Houston to me is early
innings they could end up being. They could end up
looking at If you told me next year a team
explodes in the West and ends up winning by seven
point eight points, I would guess Houston because they have
so many players that are just going to springboard to
(17:49):
another level here in the next fifty to one hundred
basketball games.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, I totally agree. I think they have massive upside.
I think they could very easily be the second best
team in the West and the biggest threat to the
thunder new this year. I think that's absolutely on the table.
They match up well with OKC too, because they have
all the big physical size. The ball handling will be
the weakness, as we saw with Indiana. Even Oklahoma City
struggled because of their lack of depth and ball handling
against Indiana's ball pressure. But the youth the thing that
(18:14):
you're talking about in terms of the wide range of
outcomes is super interesting because as I was breaking down
their depth chart today, I'm looking at it and I'm like, Okay,
Fred van Vliet, legit point guard. You know, Shane gun center,
Kd's your four, Amen, Thompson. I think defensively functions as
either a two or three, so that could be either.
But then it's like Jabari Smith Jr. Is kind of
(18:35):
a four. He plays basically the same position as Kadie.
I don't think he moves his feet well enough to
be a three. Cam Whittmore could be one of those guys.
Reed Shepherd could be one of those guys, but like
who knows. And here's the other thing to call it.
Houston gave up one first round draft pick in this deal.
They still have a boat load of first round draft
picks at their disposal, so they're high. They're like a
(18:57):
high likelihood for like a we bring this team into
we watch him for twenty games, and we go, oh,
here are the two things we're missing.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Exactly right, Let's go get what we need to get.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Like they are, they're extremely well equipped heading into this
next season.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's where Houston won the trade, they didn't have to
give up another first round pick. That that's where they
won the trade. It's not just KD because my guess
is because of their depth, they won't play Kadi more
than like sixty to sixty five games. They want him
for the postseason. There's no reason to play him seventy
five eighty games. Because they also know if you're in
(19:30):
the West, Jason, you know you're going to be in
long series. So there's no you know you're going to
be in six game series.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
In the West.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's not like the East where you kind of feel
like if Aliberton comes back next year, they're just certain
you're gonna win a lot of series really quickly. You're
gonna have long series in the West, no reason to
have you know, I want KD going into the playoffs,
you know, off about a two games and nine day stretch,
healthy and ready to go. And I think you have
(19:58):
to think about that as a GM with an older
play in the West, if you have a Steph a KD,
all these series are long series.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
If they get a couple more ball handlers, like that's
the thing, Like if they get a Tyas Jones, if
they get you know, one other guy of that ILK,
then they will be able to rest Kde not just
for the regular season, but even in the postseason. Like
we saw, Houston give themselves a really good chance to
win games even without high level offensive skill because they
just go, here's Tarry Eason and and Amen Thompson and
(20:24):
we're picking up full court and you're turning the ball
over now and it's a mess. Like they are able,
like they are able to prevent the redundancy that Phoenix had,
where you have a bunch of guys who do.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
The same thing.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
On Houston, what KD does is so specialized for them
that they kind of have an identity separate, separate from him,
so they will be able to win games without him.
They will be able to carry the load so that
he can come in and lift them over the top.
I think it's a I think it's a fantastic on
paper basketball fit. It'll be ugly sometimes, Kadie's gonna have
some nights where maybe the statistical performance isn't there because
(21:00):
it's ugly. They can't space the floor as well for him,
But they will in turn do the same thing to
the other team. So to buy Kevin that margin for
air before we get out of here tonight, Coln, I
didn't want to run this by you because I've seen
a lot of victory lapping criticism. You know, let's just
say the Phoenix Suns have been the butt of the
(21:20):
joke today because they took McHale Bridges and Cam Johnson
and Chris Paul and they turned him into basically Bradley
Beal and Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green in one first
round pick. I get that it looks bad. Here's where
this is where my brain went this morning. They made
(21:43):
it to the finals a year where because of COVID
everyone was hurt, and we had a tray Young Hawks
team in the conference finals, a Paul George Clippers team
with an injured Kawhi in the conference finals, and that
Son's team. And by the way, they ran into Giannis,
and Giannis beat them four straight times for the title.
(22:04):
So they weren't good enough. Then the next year they
kind of have a great regular season and Luca like
embarrasses them, like embarrasses them for the world to see.
In the second round, they weren't good enough, so they
made an aggressive trade. They went and got Kevin Durant.
Every one of us would have done the same thing.
(22:24):
At that point in time. It was Kevin Durant and
we had just seen him be so amazing for Brooklyn
in those couple of previous playoff runs. Even the Chris
Paul thing that I would argue they should have used
Chris Paul's salary as a vehicle with which to bring
in more size and athleticism. But you're like Chris Paul
for Bradley Beal, Like, I mean, come on right, you
(22:44):
could talk yourself into it.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Again.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
It wasn't perfect. There were mistakes. There are certain things
I would have done differently. But now we're on the
other side of this and it's like self awareness. We're
not good enough. We just missed the playoffs in the
Western Conference, like Katie misses a few games and we
completely fall apart. I understand it looks bad when you
zoom out, but to me, what happened to Phoenix is
just what happens when you get aggressive and it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So I said today on the show, I said, listen,
I'm not going to come in hot on the draft
because it's a projection draft. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I mean,
I just I said, I think Cooper. Flag's really good.
I think he's a more aggressive, better defender right now
at this point than Tatum. I said, I think.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
He's really good.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
He's not good as Tatum, he's really good. The kid
from Baylor. He's a disruptor defensively, looks like he's going
one thousand miles an hour. I'm like, that's an NBA athlete.
Is he going to score a lot?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I thought the Spurs did pretty well. What I do
think and I've talked about this a lot, and I
want your reaction. I've been on this now for about
two months. There was about a twenty year period. So
you and I grew up with the Big East, and
if you were a great player in the biggiest Pearl
Washington sort of an exception, or if you're a great team,
(24:06):
you were going to be an NBA player. Youwing was
going to be great in the NBA. I mean, just
the way it was. There was about a twenty year
one in college basketball when the G League happened. Guys
went to Europe, played one year of college where like
Doug McDermott was the college player of the Year, Tyler
Hansborough was you go to the pros and they were
rotational guys. And then two years ago I watched Yukon
(24:29):
and I went, oh, shit, there's seven NBA players. They
have NBA length, They are great. These are great players.
And I thought, oh, that team could play with you
and LV and Duke. That is a real team. And
the reason it happened was guys are staying maybe a
year longer with an IL. Now American universities are poaching
(24:50):
European players. I honestly feel like the last two years
when I've watched college, we had a twenty year period.
We were trying to pretend the sport was good. And
Jay Billis said, this their day. NBA guys don't miss
open shots. Like it's just the seven foot guy shoots
better than the six to two guy in college. And
I do feel like the NIL for all the bitching
(25:12):
about it. Rick Bettino said, this here day, it's kind
of made the G League irrelevant. Shit, I watched the
playoffs Indiana, Oklahoma City. You no G League guys, I
mean a men. Thompson's one of the only G League
unite guys. It's like the second two year college guys,
three year college guys che holmgrun one year probably should
have stayed a second because his offensive games hit and miss.
(25:33):
But I do feel like the last two years I've
watched college and I think this will help the draft
Ryan because it won't all be Euros. It'll even the
Euros are coming and playing now at Texas, They're coming
to play at Connecticut. I feel like college basketball was
kind of unwatchable for twenty years and people kept saying, Oh,
it's great. It wasn't it was diluted, it was bad.
(25:55):
In the last two years, I've been glued to March
Madness and it's just more NBA dudes.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
College basketball is a weird spot because, you know, growing up,
I probably would rather watch Big.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Monday than NBA.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
You know, back when it was the Big East, and
then you know, it was packed ten teams that were
loaded with NBA players, you know, going back to those
UCLA squads, remember Washington State loving that team that year.
Robbie cal Gill, Well, I guess you want to talk
about the NBA guys, So shout out to Robbie. But
I I'm I'm with you because I think I even remember,
(26:29):
like you and gottlieb arguing it a bit about it
being like, hey, look, college basketball is largely irrelevant up
until we get to March, and with everything feeling like
it has to be an event, which I think Silver's
doing with the NBA, it's like, hey, we've got the
n season tournament.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
We've got plan like we have more.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Almost like specialty events that we can partner in different ways,
Like we're kind of just titling some of the same stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
But you know, if this means more revenue, then that's
the game.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
And even though like I've talked about baseball with this
being like, hey, be really happier this utibly successful local
market thing, and that your playoffs are an incredible product
and you just hope that you have enough storylines to
carry over that secondary interest. The tournament doesn't necessarily need
all these crazy storylines because the event itself is still
(27:15):
one of the greatest sporting events in the world. But
your right to point out like whether it was ignite.
You know with Scoop, they had Dyson, they had Hardy,
Jalen Green, Kaminga, and then you had the amen usre
Thompson deal with overtime. I think, yeah, it felt it
(27:35):
was starting to feel like, Okay, this is like even
more tenuous for a product that was already really struggling
with its regular season in college basketball. So I think
the tournament has always been something everybody's always going to
care about because it's basically like a football version of
gambling in a different sport where it's just so much
fun and you almost feel left out of American society
if you're not in the tournament. I don't know that
(27:57):
they're ever going to recover any of that stuff from
the regular season. But the draft trends of what was
happening with guys circumventing college because of the compensation going
to New Zealand, you know, playing in the Australian League
and then come back here like it hurt yeh draft
wise for you to have eight what college guys before
(28:17):
s singay well S and Gay went eleventh, so well, no,
Colin went well you went eleventh.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Yeah, yeah, and the other guy went ninth to Toronto
and even jag or Demon you know he comes from Russia,
but he's at BYU because of the nil stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Whatever it was. And I don't I don't know all of.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
A sudden if everybody's going to be prioritizing regular season
college basketball over the NBA. But there was something that
was incredibly fearful as these other alternatives that the NIL
has helped college basketball solve in the short term.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, no, I just I watched the draft last and
I watched the yukon a couple of years ago, and
I watched March Madness, and I'm like, ohkay, I'm back
into the sport. Like and I've always been sort of
loyal to the number. Like I stopped talking college football
for about ten years because it was Alabama Clemson in
Georgia and I felt like nobody Denver West gives a
(29:19):
you know what. And I remember when the Pac twelve
sort of when USC decided we're going in Ucla. I
got a call. I was in Turks and Kkos with
my family and Eric Shanks called me and said, just
want to give you a heads up. This is going
to be announced in about three hours. I was in
an airport and I couldn't tell anybody, but I started
doing some social and having our staff get ready for it.
And I remember thinking, oh, I can talk college I
(29:41):
can talk college football again, you know, like, oh, USC
is going to a conference. And then and then there
was a lot of talk even then about Washington Oregon
getting in. I'm like, Okay, that's a real conference that
they'll be able to compete. They'll get some Midwest kids,
they'll get Big ten money, they'll be more fortified because
the PAC twelve was paying at thirty million year, big tens.
Pania seventy USC was complaining to me, it's like, we
(30:04):
can't compete with anybody. We have the money, and so
like I feel like, you know, I just follow what
the audience is following. And I would see those numbers
for Alabama couldn't sell off some home games. I would
see some of those numbers, and it was like people
were getting tired of it. I was getting tired of it.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
So Alabama, though, I don't know, I'm going back on that.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Alabama was an incredibly spoilt fan base to the point
where SABAN had a beg fans for day games to
come in on some of those lower level matchups because
they just suspected a national championship every time. I mean,
it's the only campus that I'd ever been to when
I used to travel a college game day because I
did the radio part of it along with TV, where
it was the only it was the only campus that'd
be like, oh, game Bays here again. Whatever, you know,
(30:48):
I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep in you know, every other place.
It's like a not even a national holiday because you
know it might not ever be coming back. So as
you say that, though, like, let's be honest, would you
have avoided talking college football based on some numbers if
you were still at ESPN because I sensed an SEC
mid ten shift there, buddy when you started, when you started, uh,
(31:10):
we get somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
No, well, no, I would. I would say this is
that Klatt is a big notice and so yeah, so
I'm I was always I said this for years. SEC
is the best. They went on recruiting day, they went
on Draft Day, they went on Saturday. That's the best.
I don't want to hear it, but I did notice
(31:34):
about four years ago and when the NIL started, and
there's a lot of money in those big ten schools.
Those are sixty thousand student body. A lot of those
graduates do very well. I started noticing like four years ago.
I'm like, yeah, people are poaching Georgia and Bama and
they don't like I think Nick Saban realized, like before
Texas came in it's like, oh shit, Texas is bigger
(31:54):
than Alabama. Texas looked better than Alabama. So about four
years ago I started saying and then it was it
was the Harbaugh team before they won. I'm like, yeah,
I think that's they're as good as Georgia. Like I'm
watching the Saturday and I'm like, they got like ten
NFL guys, you know all over the field. Georgia maybe
has twelve. So I do think about four years ago,
(32:17):
I just watched the games and it's like, you know,
when I first started watching Caitlyn Clark, I was just like, well, shit,
she's shooting from thirty three feet. That doesn't even make it.
I mean, the line's twenty two. So I tend to
trust my eyes. And when the Big Ten, when Harbaugh's
team the year before they won, I was like, oh
they caught up. At least the top of the Big
ten's as good as the top as the SEC.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, I've heard this.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
I actually think people are like more unfair and how
they critique the SEC than it is about being pro
sec because I just see a lot of media members
that all have Big Ten backgrounds that have been like
incredibly celebratory about what's happened the last couple of years.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Now I've heard the nil theory.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
I think Saban would have figured it out if he
was motivated to figure it out, but.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
He may have been right.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
You've been there since two thousand and nine or no,
two thousand and seven, excuse me, two thousand and seven,
that first year where they lost to Louisiana Monroe. So
now I'm trying to remember if I have that year right.
I feel like I feel like I'm messing up a
year because I would have been on college game day
for Tumberville Iron Bowl they got smoked. I think that
would have been two thousand and eight. So anyway, I
(33:25):
gotta look that up.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I need I need more results, I need more parody.
I mean I need more.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Balance because you know, the people that didn't like the
SEC still didn't like the SEC when they had seven
different national or excuse me, seven national.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Championships in a row.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
You could run through four or five programs, You're like, Okay,
they could win a national championship. They're playing for a
national championship. It didn't feel like the other conferences could
be that deep. Certainly the Big Ten is in the
conversation now, especially when you add a team like Oregon,
you could say, hey, you're also adding Washington, who plays
in a national championship two years ago, so that puts
them on the probable list, even if that is probably
more of an aberration for that program and just having
(34:01):
an incredible year where everything kind.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Of came together.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
So you might be entirely right about the balance of
it flattening out the top here a little bit. But
I guess for the people that I know hated the
SEC so much, they were still arguing against the conference
when they were winning all these titles. And so now
if the standard is that, yeah, I wasn't one standards
that the Big I was won back to back with
(34:25):
two different teams the first time in eighty years, then
the thing that you said didn't even matter when they
were winning is now the thing that matters the most,
because you could also you could also just say, hey,
the SEC had an awful quarterback year. So maybe there
is this shift, a shift that's long overdue. You know,
sports are cyclical. Maybe the Big ten's about to have
(34:46):
this incredible run. But it's very hard for me to
say that because of the national championship results and look
Tennessee looked just fucking frigid against Ohio State that looked
like a football team that was not interested in competing,
and they get trucked.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah, in that game.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
I just have a hard time on like the people
that do this for a living, that are on the
evaluation side, they're like, that's still the best.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
Conference, Like are you like, what's what's going on?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I think the sixth best team I think I think
I will say this year, I think about the sixth
best team in the Big Ten will be Washington and
I think the sixth best team in the SEC could
be Oklahoma. And so that to me is where about
I think about where we're at. I think I think
they're both and if they played, it's a go either
(35:36):
way game. Whoever is at home wins because I think
Penn State's gonna win it. I have I picked. I
remember when Ohio State lost to Michigan, I said, my
favorite part about college football is Ohio State's going to
lose as a twenty point favorite in their last big
game and they're going to get into the tournament. And
by the way, Kansas City the year they won the
Super Bowl two years ago, got beat by Oakland in
(35:57):
like weeks sixteen or Las Vegas, and I'm like, yeah,
they should be in the playoffs. I don't care, just
like putting the best teams in. I got Penn State
winning it. Singleton's amazing, Drew Aller is getting better. I
think that the best backfield by a mile in college sports.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Just to clean it up, it was two thousand and
eight Iron Bowl, Tubberville did get smoked and that was
his last season, so that's I remember just being down
there for that. But Saban had already been there obviously
the previous year when he had the bad record and
people were like, is this guy really going to be
that good?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
He's really good on TV by the way.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah, I think he you know, I think he wants to.
He takes it really seriously. Yes, yeah, like he's he's
in you know, I know a couple of guys that
are really close with him, that are with them all
the time when they're on the road, and he is
like adamant about making sure the stuff that he's talking about,
(36:51):
like he's he's not just out there like he cares,
he actually cares, like what are we doing similar they
doing it? Which actually makes the most sense. Ever, if
you know anything about the guy where I remember this
story because I've been down there a bunch of different times,
and I really loved I just have so much respect
for Saban.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
I've loved interviewing him. I always hated any.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Belichick comp because I was like, Belichick is not interesting,
Like he goes out of his way to not be interesting,
and that's like the game he's playing, and Saban is
really thoughtful, and for whatever reason, people try to like
lump them in because they were both successful.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And had kind of this tip it.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
They're not the same guy, and I think the world
the Saban and it seems like whatever he's going to do,
he wants to make sure, like, Okay, what's what's the
best possible way for us to go ahead and do it?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Which is exactly the way he runs a football program.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Well, well yeah, that's when Urban Meyer is a friend
of mine and like Urban watches film? Did I ever
tell you my Urban? And that's when Urban comes on
the show, Mine like I will talk to him before
the break, I'm like, have you wont he will have
watched film? I never forget Years ago when LSU played
Ohio State, Jim Trussell was the coach, and I saw
(38:01):
Urban I can tell this story now. I saw Urban
in I think he was at Florida or was leaving
or I forget what it was, but I think he
was at Florida at the time again.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Because they just was he the National championship the year before.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yep, and they were LSU was playing Ohio State, and
I caught him in the hallway. He went on for
about eight minutes. He literally described the game. He said,
Ohio State will move the ball early. Mo Clorette had
a big run early, I think for a touchdown. He said, Ultimately,
LSU's got about twice as many good receivers, twice as
many good running backs. They'll wear them down, they'll pull
(38:39):
away in the second half, and they'll win by like fourteen.
And he went like for eight to ten minutes. He literally,
I mean he'd watched film for both teams. He literally
he recited the game. So I took that and went
on the game and talked about the game, basically using
all of his stuff and say, hey, listen, I just
talked to somebody I trust. Blah blah blah. It made
me sound so small, but he I liked these ex
(39:02):
coaches because a lot of times. I mean, Sable will
watch film before that Saturday show. Urban will go and
watch film and break it down like a coach, and
it's and they're so freed, right, there's no pressure. They're
watching film now without an agenda not to protect anything.
And I think both those guys provide something that film
(39:24):
knowledge that's really valuable to me as a consumer.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, so LSU wanted, you know seven when they had
the second loss.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Remember that was the year in two thousand and seven
where UCF Boston College or ranked number two West Virginia if.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
They'd beaten Pitt. It's still one of my favorite college
football years ever because whenever you go through any like
the research packets for the upcoming weekend, it'll be like,
this is the last time. The last time this happened
was in two thousand and seven, because like two thousand
and seven was a free for all, and even though
LSU had that second loss, they're like, look, we're just
going to vote this team back in. I remember Trussell
after the fact saying that was a game. When we
were preparing for it, we knew we had no chance.
(39:58):
And then they lose to Ohio State eight. Excuse me,
Ohastate loses the flora the next year, and that was
the thing.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Like, this is the Big ten argument. This is the
pro big ten argument.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
That for years we were conditioned, like remember the Alabama
Michigan State games where you were just go jesus.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Oh, thirty four nothing or thirty five seven.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Isn't happening as much anymore, okay. And that's not just
about the Michigan and Ohio state national championships, and I
think they're kind of like further, the point is that
we may be on the cusp of this thing that
like is real. It's just so hard for me to
think that, like there's going to be another region.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Why though, So here's my take on this. Alabama's doing
car washes and bake sales, and Ohio State's not big
ten schools. Most SEC schools are smaller schools. I think
Auburn's like is it sixteen eighteen thousand? Wisconsino are like
small cities, man, I mean it's nuts. And they all
(41:01):
those graduates go all across the America and they go
to New York in LA and they make a bunch
of money and they give it back. It's much easier
for these big ten schools. I mean, USC is now
spending twenty million dollars innil. They're twenty twenty six class.
They just went and bought this insane class. And that's
just because of NIL. That's not because they suddenly figured
(41:23):
out how to recruit. They've got money. And so now
the big ten's got Seattle, Los Angeles, Columbus. You know
these are massive. I mean, Penn State's got Philadelphia and
New York graduates everywhere. SCC is a lot of small towns,
and I just don't think the NIL money. I mean,
(41:45):
I just don't think they have the NIL money in
most instance. So I think Georgia does, but I don't
think a lot of teams do. George is also closest
to the biggest city in the South, Atlanta. Well there's
more money, more attorneys, more doctors, more you know, venture
capitalists in Atlanta in the South, and they're Georgia.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
I do think sometimes too, You'll have.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
You know, it's a very human nature thing, but you
become motivated by something that you don't think you can
get as opposed to expecting it, right, I mean it's
the King of the Mountain.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Analogy here where you know, as Georgia.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Is motivated to spend when they put together these these runs,
like what if Alabama's not in the playoff for ten years?
What do you think, like what do you think that
nil is going to be like or whatever? You know,
like Ohio State after losing to Michigan before the season,
and it's still This is one of the things I
think with college football that even though people love the expansion,
I don't. It's more of a reflection of how much
(42:40):
I hate the realignment. I've already done these rants far
too many times. But I'm watching your network and it's
Ohio State Michigan and the broadcast is like this is
for everything, and it's like, yeah, except it isn't because
Ohio State's going to lose this and then win a
national championship and I will forever miss that that is
not on the line. But yes, it doesn't ruin my
enjoyment of this incredible rivalry and what was like an ugly, awesome,
(43:03):
just a brutal game and you know, the emotions that
game are just like they're on the TV screens.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
It's a fucking awesome product.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
But when I think about, you know, how State this
past offseason and grabbing Caleb downs as soon as savings.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Out of there, going to get Will Howard, which you.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Know at the time, remember like the summer, it was
a bit of an argument like, hey, well if he
was that special, like why is this guy leaving k
State and all these things, and it just works and
we knew that it was supposedly this twenty million dollar program.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Is this about?
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Ohio States should always be able to fund all this
stuff if you name the top blue blood programs, the
places where it matters the most. I don't know that
this is ever going to be an issue, but there
is something about that void. There is something about feeling
like this is bullshit that motivates you in a way
that's that's just hard to replicate when you're used to
all the success. So I think that's what will probably
happen amongst the top schools.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It's just a matter of like, how many.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Of these top programs do you think will have access
to maybe a spending spree and look, apparently now we
have a cap at twenty million for an entire academic department. Yeah,
good luck figuring that one out. Good luck being the
tennis coach, you know, like, hey, she really like this
kid from Choate. You're like, yeah, well we our guy
(44:19):
needs a six defensive back.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
So sorry, Yeah, that thing a bit of a circus.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, well I told you it was only gonna take
thirty minutes, but that's not We can't talk for thirty
This fucking thing's already gone an hour.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Sorry. I didn't mean to do that.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I really didn't. I want to. I know you're busy.
I know you got to do like sixteen local hits
and spoken it's available.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Are the Sonics coming back? So well? No, man, I
just love love talking to you. Know how I feel
about you. So whatever you need, same here, all right, buddy,
appreciate it.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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