Colin Cowherd Podcast - Russillo on NBA Draft Coverage, ESPN stories, Great Podcasting, College Football | Colin Cowherd

Colin is joined by Ryen Russilo, host of the Ryen Russilo podcast at The Ringer!

They start with Colin’s take after the NBA draft: that marquee sports broadcasters do better work when they are allowed to specialize in one sport rather than trying to cover them all and diluting the on-air product (4:00). They discuss the decline in entertainment production in Hollywood (16:15) and contrast and compare what makes for successful broadcasting vs podcasting (25:15). 

They talk about their own podcast consumption, and weigh in on Jake Tapper’s controversial book “Original Sin”, Tapper’s media tour and the public blowback it has received (37:00). Colin explains why the most “cringe” thing in politics is when people denounce comedians as “”unfunny” just because of their political views (41:30).

They review the NBA Draft and discuss why the talent entering the draft the past two years has been far more NBA ready after a twenty year drought (54:00).They point to NIL, conference realignment  and the transfer portal being a boon for the quality of college sports (1:00:45). 

Finally, they discuss former college coaches like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer transitioning into broadcasting and why they’re so good on TV (1:07:00). 

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
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(00:24):
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(00:46):
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(01:06):
works his ass off and I'm not going to grind
him that or he can go on local Des Moines
radio and talk about the twenty eighth pick in the
second round. Okay, So I have something I want to
throw at you because you're a writer, and I was
kind of proud of it.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I never can tell if a lot of people, well,
actually I can tell. Usually when people say, hey, you're
a writer, it's actually an insult because there's nothing of
note yet, at least publicly. But yeah, okay, I think
we're cool enough that I'll let you make the joke.
But go ahead, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Now, I have a lot of respect for your writing
because I think it's hard. So you know how people
talk about foam too. And I had a teenage daughter
and I lived.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Through it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
You were jealous of her, and I came up with something.
Oh no, So what's funny is through the years, I've
tried to think of something, you know, kind of an
ancdote to it, and I said, I came up with
I have phobe, which is fear of being in anything.
And over the last several years, on effing TikTok. If

(02:05):
you're not selling me sit ups and mushroom coffee and
vacations in Dubai, you know, bogatah. I'm like, there's this
thing going on. And the reason I bring this up
because I think as a broadcaster sometimes Fox really protects me.

(02:28):
And I'm not joking. They like put a fortress around me.
They don't let it because they understand three hours a
day is a lot of talking. And I've watched Steven A.
Smith some of the criticism about him, and my take
he and McAfee bust their ass. They work really hard.
I mean McAfee has no days off in the football season.
And my takeaway is is that it's impossible to be

(02:55):
like the perfect parent, great in your career, four kids
every recite every little league game. My take is most
broadcasters at some point pick one or two things. You've
picked NBA among yours and NFL is mine. I go
a mile deep on it, and everything else suffers a

(03:15):
little bit. And I don't you and I don't. We
both worked at ESPN, but I always felt the ideology
of ESPN was, if you make good money, we're working you.
We're getting you on a lot of stuff. Fox, interestingly
is the opposite. Their thing is we'll compensate you. We
want you to be great on what you're great at,
but we're not putting you on a bunch of stuff.
And so when I watch the NBA coverage and I

(03:38):
think the NBA is big enough, you should just do
NBA and that is your beat, Like Windhorst is not
doing baseball? Am I a relic to think if you're
a network and doing a sport and you're a marquee personality,
that's it. That's what you do.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, I don't think you're a row like I do
think that there's a tendency for those of us. Again,
this is a very small window of the population, but
that do this all the time because like when people
ask me like, hey, what do you do, and then
they're immediately like that's amazing, that must be awesome, and
I'm like, it's great. You know, I had some goals.
I've reached some I haven't reached others. But I think

(04:18):
you and I would admit, like your worst stick going
into ESPN to bullshit for three hours. Like even I
is a younger guy that was mad at the world
and felt slighted at every turn, I still could allow
myself to go, hey, this isn't that bad, Like this
isn't that bad of a life. But what I would
say is the difference is that when I go home,
work doesn't stop. And for me in Connecticut too, especially

(04:41):
at that time, it was waking up thinking about what
I was going to say, prepping to say what I
was going to say, say what I was going to
say for three hours four o'clock, run home, gym, food,
and then watch games and think about what I was
going to say for the six hours I was watching
games on top of the twenty for football. And look,
I've probably because of my background, felt like I had

(05:04):
to prove myself all the time. So I almost felt
like you owed the audience, right, You owed the audience
to be into it. So as you say, like, is
it to be a relic to suggest that you should
really only follow one thing, Well, if you're a wind
horse and that's your beat, I don't expect windhorse to
break down the college football rankings on a Tuesday night.
But if you're doing what you and I were doing

(05:25):
in some forms, like you're still doing exactly what you're doing,
I'm doing less. But as much as I'm an NBA guy,
I'm probably living in Florida and not Manhattan Beach. If
I'm not doing any NFL, like, you have to figure
out a way to do NFL. And I love college football.
I like it more than the NFL. So I still
want to watch college football on Saturdays. I've definitely, as
I've gotten older, been like, can I is there any

(05:46):
way I can like dial back some of this. I mean,
baseball is a sport I love, grew up with. It
was my first job. I don't have time for it.
When all this basketball stuff is over next week. I'm
not just going to be like, Okay, it's baseball season
and I'm gonna sit at home. I'm gonna get out
of the house. I'm gona travel, I'm going to do something.
So I don't know if you're saying this because it's
the right approach to prevent ourselves, or if it's a

(06:06):
little if you'll allow me like, is it at all
self serving what you're saying at this point in your life?

Speaker 1 (06:13):
No, I think what I'm saying I misstated it. I
think you're from if you're on a Marquee television network, broadcast.
I'm a generalist, so nobody considers me an expert, right,
Like I'm not on the NBA Draft or the NFL draft,
or the postseason baseball or the Indy five hundred crew

(06:33):
or the World Cup. I'm a generalist. I'm not on
a network Tiffany Marquee event. But as I watch the
criticism for broadcasters that make mistakes on these events, my
take is, once you pay eleven billion dollars for events
as a network, like I don't want to see Joe
Bucken Aikman, that's what they do. They go a mile deep.

(06:56):
They should have an off season, and I don't want
to dilute them. Like that's what I think of them,
as they're the NFL guys.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah yeah, and look, they don't want to be diluted.
I always joked once I'd been in the business enough
that I was like, I want to come back as
a former college football quarterback, and I want to see
at the end of August and then maybe I pop
up on the draft and then I'll see you like
that's the gig, that's the ultimate gig. But there is
something that happens to all of us. I remember I
was trying to fight my way through Boston. I go,
why does this guy get a radio show? And then

(07:24):
he's on this TV show every single night, and then
he's also doing pre and posting this, like, why can't
you just have one job? And for whatever it is
our industry, I don't even know this has changed a lot.
It's like we still need all the stuff. And I
know ESPN's taking a ton of shit because of their
draft coverage. I used to be on the radio coverage.
You know, I was never going to be on TV there.
So the fact that I was never at that desk,

(07:45):
I couldn't even it wasn't like sure, I would have
loved to be able to do it. I was never
going to be able to do it. I was never
going to be invited to that. So my criticisms are
not based on like any jealousy. I usually like to
think I'm pretty aware about stuff, but you know, whether
it's you know, I don't really feel like talking about
steven A all that much, and you know, held my
contracts up here too, So like what am I doing
ripping everybody everywhere? Right? That wouldn't make a ton of sense.

(08:08):
I think I would ask anyone this. It's like the
Draft itself is a huge commitment to be prepared for that,
and and so I used to drive myself crazy just
having to do the radio thing, and then I would
host the combine for television. I did that for like
five years. And I love the Draft. It's my favorite
sporting event in the entire year. But what I'd ask

(08:29):
certain people is do you just want to be on
the marquee event without any concern for how prepared you are,
for how much goes into this? And that's where I
think it's either somebody who's working too much. You could say, hey,
this person spread really thin, But you know, I just

(08:49):
feel like it happens a lot in our industry. It's
like do you do you want the title or do
you want the job? And I think a lot of
guys love the title. And if if people are to
let you do whatever you want to do, then what
are you supposed to say no? But right I look
at some of the thoughts around, like, oh, you know,
this person's a huge star, so we'd like to get
him involved here, like to get him involved there. It's

(09:11):
like my first thought is if I were offered something,
it's like, am I even ready to be on this broadcast,
and if I wasn't, I'd be ashamed to be there.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
I was on the draft NFL Draft for two years
on radio and I and again, I'm pretty good talker.
I do I feel. I just didn't feel. I just
I kind of was like, oh no, no, no, this
I shouldn't be stealing somebody's gig. I'm not going a
mile deep. I mean, I read everything I made calls,

(09:44):
but I'm thinking, I'm not this is not me, this
is not what I am. I'm not good enough on
this to do this. And I'm not knocking anybody who
like there are certain people that they are so good
on stuff they should do it for the rest of
their life. But it's interesting as I've watched some of
the criticism of people, and a lot of it's been
stephen A And my takeaway is, man, it's I think

(10:09):
in these marquee events, I think networks have to step
in and just say you got to have specialists. It's
almost like in baseball there's literally the bullpen. There are
setup men, closers and middle relievers. And I think if
I ran it like at the volume, like I have
Daniel Cormier for one thing, I don't bleed my guys
over at all. I want you to be a middle

(10:31):
coffers golf and lives for it. But it's like at
the volume and I have much less of a budget.
My whole thing is I'll be a generalist, Nick writes,
A generalist, everybody else is a specialist. And I like
it when I go to a guy, I know exactly
what he's going to talk about.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, but here's and this is not a disagreement. This
is about the programming part of this and the realization
that I had, you know, the epiphany years ago that
I realized, like, ultimately, I think there are a certain
p pull that are stars and not stars because the audience,
as much as they complain about it. It's a lot
like a movie. Like if you suggest a movie to

(11:07):
somebody else, the first question they'll probably ask is who's
in the movie. And if you're like, oh, it's a
bunch of underground guys, you know, if you're second city,
you won't you won't know a single guy. The other
person is more likely to be like, well, I'm not
I'm probably not going to watch that unless there's some
art house goon. Right. So when I think about how

(11:30):
some of this stuff is staffed. When you are a
star in our business, wherever you are, ESPN, Fox, it,
the idea is like, let's let's get those people on, Like, look,
Mike and Mike along with you in all those years
monster radio shows, monster successes. I think I remember, you know,
Mike and Mike finding new ways to get the Mike

(11:51):
and Mike part of it on some more of the
NFL coverage. They had their own NFL show. So you
can be saying, hey, this is spreading our guys a
little thin, because you know, it's a brutal life in
general to work a morning show. But at the same time,
it's like, hey, we're launching this new show. Well who's
on it. Oh, these really good young guys, these awesome researchers.

(12:12):
You have never heard of one of them. Well, you're
not introducing that upfront. Advertisers aren't excited. Whereas you go, hey,
we got Mike and Mike for thirty minutes, the Mike
and Mike Football show that we're playing in the afternoons
once a week. Turn Key advertisers already excited about that. Like,
wasn't there even a time where it was thought that
you could be on college game Day and you probably
would have done it, and it actually would have made

(12:33):
sense because it probably would have brought a different level
of juice to the show. That not to say that
that show was ever really in trouble, because it's a
great show. It's been a great franchise for a really
long time. Yeah, you would have been prepped up on
it because i know how much you love college ball,
but that's probably spreading to you a little thing, especially
with the travel. But there's a point in time where
I'm sure you would have said yes, and it would

(12:54):
have brought something different to that show.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah. No, I listen, I coffee buss his ass. He's
got my respect, and so does steven A. I'm this
is not criticism of them. I mean McAfee could fall
to bed and be interesting with wrestling. The guy's like
an encyclopedia and he's just unbelievable. Years ago and Nick
Cohn asked me about him, and I'm like, how come
he's not on the payroll. He's like the best wrestling

(13:19):
guy out there. They didn't know if Roman Reigns was
the guy, I'm like, I'd make McAfee your heavyweight champ.
You know, put him on something and add forty pounds.
That's who I'd watch. No, it's just interesting. So the internight,
I will nick. He's busy. So the internight I had dinner.
It was one of these I don't do this, this

(13:40):
is not my scene. But it was the San Vicente
bungalow is the one in Santa Monica, so it's overlooking
Santa Monica. Very nice, and so I had it with
an executive with a streaming service and it was just
kind of a you know, just a nice guy that
buddy wanted me to meet. We had a great, great
dinner and we were talking and this guy said, he goes,

(14:02):
people have no idea like Sunset Boulevard is dead, like
it's been dead for two years. And I don't think.
And this person was talking about when he does zooms
at this big company he's at. He goes, I get budgets.
Should we do it? Should we do it in Vancouver, Georgia, Louisiana,
Los Angeles, Singapore. He's like, Los Angeles is thirty to

(14:24):
forty percent more expensive than flying everybody to Melbourne to
do the show or Dublin. And I don't think people
know this outside of Los Angeles, but you know, everybody's
heard a sunset strip. And when I just moved to Chicago,
and what was interesting is about two weeks, three weeks

(14:44):
before I left, I met somebody on Sunset at night Ryan,
there was nobody there on a Thursday night, Like there
was no juice stuff boarded up. And I wonder your thoughts,
because you're in this business, you're writing and meeting with people,
does anything get made anymore? How much stuff is being made?

Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm not the right guy to ask, because I'm I
can answer it to some degree because of where I'm
at now. I do have some really good things that
are going on. But every time you get a yes,
all you're waiting for is the more significant yes. So
I've had a few yesses where it's like this is
a big deal until you have to get the next yes.

(15:25):
And so you know, I have friends that are in
the industry that are like, it's really hard to get
stuff made. I also think that we're comparing what's happening now,
which is basically a pullback from where it felt like
everything was getting made because you had so many I mean,
think about it, traditional television, traditional cable to now streaming
networks doing whatever they can to get into the content
game and try to outflank each other. So whether it

(15:48):
was executives at different studios getting promoted and just be like,
we're going to bring you in, We're going to do this,
and then just people getting shows green lit, or at
least they were getting the pilots. But I don't know
how many people were selling things that weren't written ahead
of time. But it is a very challenging time because
of something that again I'm not really allowed to get
all that into it, but you know, at one point,

(16:11):
there's a thing that I was working on and I
was really flattered by how many people wanted to work
on this one project. And I asked one of my friends.
I was like, man, you know, this is really I'm
kind of in shock. And he was like, yeah, it's
also like a good job, so cool, cool job on
your laptop. It's also like a very good job, and

(16:33):
people want.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
You know, again, this is sort of a weird thing
for me because it makes it sound like I'm trying
to make something sound a lot cooler than it is,
and it's not my day to day you know, I'm
not in the Hollywood game. Day to day. But it's
definitely been a massive learning experience the seven years of
like how I thought it, but I knew, I knew
I was already naive, which helped me in a way,
so I was never really truly disappointed when things don't
work out. But I don't I think everybody would agree

(17:00):
that there was. We might say it's harder to get
things made now, but what are we comparing it to.
It was like a gold rush of content there for
a lot of creators out there.

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Speaker 1 (18:29):
I want to talk because your primary thing now is podcasting.
And I thought about this the other day. I was
watching a Joe Rogan clip and then it was followed
by a Dax's Shepherd clip. And you know, if you
would have guessed fifteen years ago, you just said, what
are the biggest Hollywood podcasts or the biggest podcast. If

(18:49):
I'd have said Dak Sheppard and Joe Rogan, you'd have
thought like, well, did Denzel do one? Or did you
know what I mean, like did bow Bridges do one?
But I was thinking of up podcasting and I was
thought about it. Tell me if this is a weird take.
I thought the other day, I was like, what makes
a great podcast? Broadcasting which I grew up in, and

(19:12):
I'm still a broadcaster who has a podcast, but I'm
not a podcaster. Broadcasting was always about the skill of broadcasting.
You didn't necessarily want to show vulnerability. You were basically polished,
and you were current, and even if you were curious,
you didn't get to talk about what you wanted to
talk about. And I'm watching Rogan and Dak Shepherd, and

(19:34):
I thought, if there's a thread on what makes podcasting
really good? Joe Rogan and Dak Shepherd have had really
difficult journeys. They talk about all their shit, and they're
two of the most curious guys, genuinely curious guys. I mean,
Rogan cares about shit that I wouldn't spend a minute on,

(19:56):
and he's an expert on it. And I was thinking
about you know, people me all the time, I want
to do a podcast. And my takeaway is, are you
insanely curious? You don't have to be skilled at broadcasting.
You can burn twice an hour, twice a minute. But
your take on the difference between broadcasting and podcasting, and

(20:16):
I think it's tell everybody your warts and be curious
as hell, and that essentially if you're those two, you win.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah. I think a lot of what you said makes
a lot of sense. And I think you and I
are a little similar in the way we got into broadcasting,
where you know, look, I had the Syracuse knew how
school application filled out. I don't know if I was
going to get in. I might have gotten into like
some some thing that allows you to go there, and

(20:51):
then maybe you get to the school. And that was
with a degree already from Vermont. And then I after
years of kind of toiling around and then wondering if
I really want to take on more student debt. Uh,
you know, I end up get a job in minor
league baseball, which you know I've talked about. But that
was like when I that was like when I was
turning to twenty six, twenty seven and so you know,

(21:12):
there's one thing about being a broadcaster that understands, Hey,
this is how I want to start the beginning of
my monologue, and then this is what I want to
make sure I do. And you know, sometimes even at ESPN,
I was like, do you give a shit about anything
I say? In between the rejoins and the teases and
the resets, Like I swear, most of the feedback always
felt And then I'd like, if I were maybe getting

(21:34):
a little pissy, I'd go, Cowherd sucks at all the
formatics and you guys all worship him, and it'd be like, well,
that's Colin, you know, that's kind. But ultimately, like I was,
I was sitting there thinking, like, what Colin is saying
in those opens is so much more important than anything else.
I don't care if it's rejoined suck. I don't care
if he forgets the reset. I don't care if his

(21:55):
teases are terrible. What's important is the meat, Like you know,
what's the meat? Because the meat is what's going to
bring me back. And it's funny too, because I started
to realize, like when I would drive in to work
and I would catch you, or if I was already there,
and you know you were on in the hallway or
on in the office. I would be more annoyed when
you had a guest than when you had an open segment.
Even if I disagreed with everything that you were saying,

(22:18):
I at least was interested in the way that you
were going to perceive things right. And this is what
I think is like a real difference between who is
somebody that people want to listen to versus like who
is a good broadcaster, Because we can get into a
whole podcasting thing too, where it's like, look, you can
be a podcaster this afternoon after going to Best Buy
if you really want to be one. You know, when

(22:39):
I first started trying to read books about screenwriting, Robert
McKee and Story, which is kind of like a standard book,
he would say like who would ever pick up a
guitar and be frustrated that they couldn't play a song
that afternoon? But yet everybody would open up final draft
and think like, hey, I'm a screenwriter, and it's like, well,
because one is the most intimidating thing and the other
thing is just sort of type and you have to

(23:00):
be bad at it before you can be good at it,
but you don't realize how bad you are as a writer.
You realize immediately how bad you are as a guitar player.
And I think there's some similarities in like podcasting, where
you go, well, what's so hard about that? Like I'm
just going to grab a mic and I hit record
and look at me. I'm a broadcaster, but I think
the radio instincts helped a lot of us become better podcasters.

(23:21):
But the real answer to what you were talking about,
which I've sort of delayed in getting there, is that
you have to have life experiences to be interesting. And
if you are like, hey, i'm high school football, I
am doing all the Syracuse stuff, I'm doing all the
Miszoo stuff, Northwestern stuff, and now I have a job
like right away doing updates at twenty two years old

(23:44):
in Chicago. It gets great that you've already mapped it
out and you're already on the air at that in
the traditional sense of things, you know, where you had
to kind of get somebody to say yes to you,
where now no one has to say anything to you
and you could just be a podcaster. But what made
you interesting? And I think what makes a row interesting
or Deck's interesting is that if you have to fill
up all this space, you better have gone through some

(24:05):
different experiences in life to then form perspective on all
of these other topics that go far beyond, like the
technical ability that you might learn in a more traditional
way that I don't think you and I ever learned.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah. No, that's just stuff I think about all the time.
I've thought about it a lot. With the volume is
when I'm listening to people, what turns me on, what
turns me off? And a lot of times it's people
with a lot of crap and they talk about it
and it forms their opinions and life kind of perspective,
and I think it's speaking.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
To Look, let me stay on this, Like, I remember
you got really personal ones because of something you were
going through, So I don't right it was a divorce, right, Yeah,
so you started talking about your divorce. I think you
got a little shit for doing it. You wanted to
share it with your audience because especially in radio, which

(24:59):
again the fact that you've continued to do this three
hours a day for this many years as somebody that
had to do it for ten years, I don't know
if I don't know if I could do it. I
don't know if I could. Like when I was in it,
I didn't think about it. Now that I've been out
of it for seven years, I don't know that I
could go back to doing it. But I don't know
that you can become great at this, whether it's the

(25:20):
talk show and obviously we're talking audio more here. Think
about how many people are investing their time into you.
And I've always felt like one of the biggest lessons
was that they want to know more about you. So
even though it may seem I'm professional, it may even
see weird. Hey stick to sports. If you can find
a way to make the human connection, I think you
get paid back with such incredible loyalty because you open

(25:43):
up a little bit more. You show that you're vulnerable.
Like all of us want to be right, all of
us want to sound like we're the coolest guy in
the room all the time, but like you can't. You
can't really do that, Like you have to. You have
to be it's not even self deprecating. You have to
be willing to share moments of your failure. And I
think you did that in a way where in the
in the moment, a lot of people didn't understand it.

(26:03):
But I really think that's what the audio relationship is about,
because you have to pay back all of those people
that are investing so much time with you as part
of their daily routine.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, I mean people, some people. I know me, I
tune into a show every single morning, like I have.
I have a rhythm to my day, like and if
I if the podcast isn't there every Tuesday and Thursday
for people, I'm like, I'm kind of bitter. I'm like,
you're I'm on the train now. I want to be entertained.
So it's like, you do give yourself to people. By

(26:36):
the way, I do take the train and I needn't
know trains do this. I know it's crazy, right, It's
just freaking crazy. So I was in Manhattan Beach the
last couple of days. I was in out. I had
to go see dentist and all that crap. So I
was just in and out. But you know, Nick Wright
was joking, He's like, dude, you will be off that
train in two days when you get a car service.
I thought it was going to be, but the burbs

(26:58):
to the city in Chicago are worse than LA traffic.
It's a twenty nine minute train ride and they have
a quiet car. Bro I have never listened to more
podcasts yours included. I get on that thing in the
morning at seven thirty eighth five ogl V Transportation Center.
My driver picks me up. I go to the Big
ten network. Do my show? I it is. It forces

(27:21):
me to podcast it. Otherwise I just, you know, I'll
sit around and just spitball and waste time and clean
the house. Forces me to listen to podcasts I listen
to every five days a week. I'm on one for
thirty minutes every day. So in a strange way, it
forces me to be disciplined listening to other people's work,
and I love it.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Do you find yourself like trying out things that you
would never listen to? Because I mean, there's so much
stuff out there. Do you do you look at it?
I wonder how much of it is as a consumer
versus like an evaluator or somebody who's done the job
for this long.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, so that's a good question. I trust my staff
at the volume. They come to me with stuff, but
I trust them to find stuff. The first year I
was helping the find stuff, but now I feel like
I've got my farm system. I mean, I've got my
scouts all lined up and that's what they do, and
they'll bring stuff to me. So I'm generally looking for people.
You know. It's like, oh, somebody told me about Sam Harris, well,

(28:17):
let's give that a run. And somebody told me about this, Okay,
let's give that a run. I'm experimental, like I'll listen
to I'll listen. You know, for about a week and
a half, two weeks, I was listening to Jake Tapper interviews.
I wanted. I didn't buy his book, but I wanted
to hear him try to kind of wiggle his way out.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Of isn't that a fascinating I'm halfway through the book.
Oh and I uh, it was sent to me.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Where do you land on that? How do you feel
about that?

Speaker 2 (28:44):
I have an analogy, but it's a little too harsh.
It's a good line, but it's too harsh. It has
nothing to do with my political leanings one way or
the other. I think you and I are actually pretty
aligned with the way we see the world. You know,
I could sit there and get mad about it of stuff.
I just don't know why you'd want to do that
all day long and just share it. But some people

(29:05):
are super into doing that and just all day long,
let him, you know, fire him off. This is wrong,
this is right, this is wrong. I think Tapper, like
a lot of people in the media, to pretend that
the rest of us were the assholes that were like,
what's going on here? And then to be the guy
that writes the book. Maybe it's as simple as the

(29:25):
publisher's going, this is the best, Like, let's get him
to write the book, have everybody be pissed about it,
and Alex also wrote the book with him. I just
wonder if that was a tactical thing where it felt
pretty gross to have Tapper be the guy that's going
to write the book, that's going to set the record straight.

(29:46):
And again, I don't know how much did Alex do
more of the work, that's the co author of the
whole thing. I just wondered if it was like a
publisher's dream despite the questions.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
So Alex is like the guy who just won that primary,
you know, the socialist democrat in New York. I always
thought his strength that guy because the last two weeks
I followed that religiously. I was fascinated by it. A
socialist stallists.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
By the way, I just want to make sure I
said his last name. I felt glad that I didn't
have it.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Formerly of the Atlantic. Now he's got a sub stack.
So I've been following in for years. Much like that
mayor mayoral candidate. Alex has a strength, which is he's
not snarky in disagreement. He'll listen, the discourse is redeemable.
He's not Tapper's different. Tapper sat on the throne on

(30:35):
CNN and could be an a hole and could be
dismissive and snarky. So I'm much less willing to just
go whoa. He missed on that one. It's like how
you presented it from your chair, like Alex Thompson acknowledges
like it's almost a journey with him. Hey man, I'm
fascinated by this whoa. I think I'm right, but he's

(30:59):
not dismissive, and that's okay. I find that too many
people like I always say I would like to be right,
but I'd rather get it right, So like I never
get too rigid on the right thing. I think my
thing what Tapper was, bro, you came off as really condescending.
I'm not into it. Bill Maher has strong beliefs, but

(31:20):
will laugh at himself if he's wrong, Like we just
be like totally own it. And I'm like, that's exactly
how to present it. Now. Bill's obviously a comedian, so
he's better at that. But when the media is in
the media mostly leans left, CNN certainly does. When the
media presents itself as your argument has no merit, it's like, guys,

(31:42):
we all have TikTok. We're all seeing the Biden videos
where he's just stiff standing stiffly. It's like, yeah, we've
all had a gramdma like that or a grandpa like that.
We know what's happening. So that's why, that's why I'm
willing to give Alex the benefit of the doubt and
not Jake Tapper.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, I would say we're in agreement on that one.
You know, I remember when Bobby Knight, yeah, went through
all of his different stuff and it was the Neil
Read incident where you know, he had choked a player,
allegedly choke the player, and then the video came out, right,
and so it was like, Okay, well, now the video's out.
And then Bobby Knight had a book that came out
and I remember I didn't want to buy it because

(32:22):
I don't want to read, you know, two hundred plus
pages of his self absorbed vibe, even if I can
respect what he was capable of doing there for a
really long time as a basketball mind. But I remember
jumping in the game. And I'm paraphrasing this because it
was a really long time ago, but I remember where
I was. I think I was like in ken Moore Square.
There's Barnes and Noble there, and I was like, let
me just see if I can find like the Neil

(32:42):
read part of this book and the way he tried
to rationalize it, and he was like, you know, I
also thought it was really interesting, like how grainy the
video was, and I just was so disgusted. I was
so disgusted reading that, being like you're trying to figure
out I mean, this is almost like the defense attorney
trying to conjure up any reasonable doubt. But you're like, hey,

(33:05):
look like this is a kid that went to your
school and you lost your shit, and you have a
track record of being unhinged, and now that you're going
to tell me, you're going to tell me that I'm
an asshole for like questioning what happened here. And that's
why I'm not super political at all. It has nothing
to do with Biden. Or if it were the other

(33:27):
way around, I'd feel the exact same way if you
felt like you had very curated opinions on this national story.
It's a global story. Anyone that had any kind of
common sense was like, what's going on here? And then
to be just reprimanded yeah, by so many people, and
then to have one of the guys that reprimanded you

(33:47):
now making millions off of this book, I wouldn't want
to write it. I'd feel bad.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yep, yeah, that's how I felt. No, I it's and
by the way, I can, I can respect somebody's political
acumen and their work ethic, but that's that's how I
always fall. The other thing.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
About Maverick's pick for the draft recap today.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Dude, listen, you've done that that.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Everybody knows you so No.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
So it's one of the things. This is the one
thing about political talk that where it gets it's really cringey.
When like a comedian, a funny comedian, Dave Chappelle's really talented,
it could be uh, John Mulaney's really talented. It doesn't
matter who it is Nick Kroll. These guys are talented

(34:46):
people and they do something that's funny, but it's a
little political, and like or like Bill Burr says something,
now everybody's like, Bill Burr's not funny, f off, he's hysterical.
The guy is one of the all time eight stand
up guys. The cringiest thing political people do, or even
the public does, is when you take a comedian. And

(35:07):
let's face it, one of the funniest things Saturday Night
Live ever did. And I'm no comedy judge, but when
they when they did that bit on the night Trump
won and all these liberals are upstairs. I think Chappelle's
in that, and they're in the apartment upstairs. Did you
ever see that one? I think that's the funniest thing

(35:27):
I've ever seen. Oh, it's all. And what they're doing
is Saturday Night Live pretty introspective looks at themselves and
they're like in a New York apartment and it's during
the election, and I think Chappelle's in it, and they're
making fun of themselves and how New Yorkers talk, like
as Trump is winning state by state and it's like

(35:48):
that moment I had more respect for Saturday Night Live
because they were making fun of themselves. It was a
real moment.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
I know, you look up. It was a clear shift
with SNL where it was like hey, And I don't
know if that was because they were just I don't
know that it was aligned with Trump's victory, but it
felt a bit of like, hey, we've been doing kind
of the same material here for a long time, Like
what right for when I see like a breakout clip
of a monologue from a late night host and you're

(36:21):
just like, dude, that was that was a joke from
like nine years ago. You know you're still doing this shit.
It has nothing to do with like political like sensitivities.
You're just like, hey, I'm more offended as a content person,
like you get to recycle the ship constantly. So I
don't know if SNL did it, whether it was self awareness,

(36:42):
whether it was tactical or you know.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
It was Chappelle. By the way, it was Chappelle. It's
really and it was really a moment for me. It
was like, oh, they get it, like they get we're
all kind of making fun of what they become. And
so the only thing about politics where I'm really like,
you know, uh is when people start telling me comedians

(37:09):
who I've laughed at for twenty years aren't funny. You know,
Chappelle did a transgender thing, and it's like it may
not be my favorite thing, but don't tell me he's
not funny, you know, don't tell me he's not talented.
That And I always think to myself, are you trying
to convince me that this comedian that I've watched six
Netflix specials isn't talented? Like stop? Like That's how it's

(37:29):
almost like it poisons people. They get so into politics
that they think they're trying to convince people on the
internet stuff we know to be true isn't true. That's
where it's weird.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I just don't have any time for that stuff. I'm
not passionate enough about it. I mean, I certainly have thoughts.
I can think some things are right, I can think
some things are wrong. But in our world, like it
doesn't really do us any good. I think every now
and then, like you'll feel motivated to go, hey, I'm
actually going to use my platform to say this kind
of stuff. I feel like there was a generation behind
us at ESPN, Like I've always you know this kind

(38:00):
it goes back to your radio days. But I think
I've said a version of this before. But every now
and then, like maybe every six months during your prime
back then, you would you would let something fly that
was like a societal observation and maybe there was a
little hint of politics in there, but it just it
still felt safe. But it was a departure from the

(38:22):
I don't know if the Steelers have enough, you know,
like you were like, look, i gotta do three hours.
Let me let me expand a little bit, but it
didn't feel like that's what you really deep down wanted
to do. And it usually was really good and then
it would stand out because it was a departure from
the norm. It was insightful, maybe it got some people
in the car thinking a little differently, and it would

(38:44):
have this moment where it would kind of stand out.
And then I started noticing like more and more. I
was like, I feel like everybody's kind of doing this
like a lot more. And then it was like, I
don't know, I still like to watch games and I'm like,
I'm not why. I'll admit, like I don't know that
I'm super educated on this. I can have a thought,
but they'll be immediately all these people telling me that

(39:05):
I'm wrong, depending on how they're aligned. And so, you know,
back in the day of starting this whole stuff of like, hey,
I want to do NFL Mondays, but i'd really start,
you know, I want to start talking about like you know,
county seats and you know, the change of representation, like
like to start mixing that in a little tuesdays. Maybe

(39:26):
I in compare to the Rangers bullpen, I don't know,
but like I'll figure out a way, but let me
start dancing in those lanes. And I think we had
talked about this where I started to wonder, like are
you doing this to stand out? Are you doing it
because you think it's right. Are you doing it because
it's just fucking way easier than watching a million games
and staying on top of everything. And so it felt
like for a while there the job was kind of
changing and it has nothing to do with like how

(39:48):
I feel about what you do or you don't believe
in When we started, I got in because I loved sports,
and I don't know if the SNL things like a
good parallel to this, but maybe it has kind of
come back around like maybe you know, yeah, it's like smart,
it kind of matters all over again, because if you're
really doing yourself, unless you're just gonna lean in so

(40:11):
far one way or the other, you're like, Okay, I'm
aligned with this group, and this is always going to
be my group, and they're always gonna have my back,
and I'm gonna have daily content to make fun of
the other one. Like the political content people, I'm jealous
of them, Like every day you get something that you
can make fun of that, you'll have so many people
supporting you. No right, but for us, like I want
you know, look, you do this long enough, you're gonna

(40:32):
have plenty of people who don't like you. But I
don't know why I would ever really want to like
have have one career where I'm trying to like show
off of like here's here's all this other stuff that
I could talk about and get you again, because I
don't know that I feel super comfortable about it. But
the boss, the boss would always be like, what the
fuck are you doing? Why are you? Why are you

(40:53):
doing this? Somebody may love your football stuff, they may
love your basketball stuff, but the second you start doing
some of this other stuff, like you're immediately going to
piss off people that are just listeners and viewers, and
we're not actually in business to be losing those people.
So even though I know there was an argument in
the past of like, it doesn't matter about any of that,
Like really, because I've never worked anywhere where they were like, hey,

(41:15):
don't worry about your audience size, just do you.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, that's still it doesn't matter what platform. It's all
about that. Hey, everybody, this message brought to you by
Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey at the Colin Coward
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(41:42):
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at Greenriver Whiskey dot com. That's it, Greenriver Whiskey dot Com.
Here's the Green River Whiskey being sure to raise your
spirits this summer. So I said today on the show,

(42:07):
I said, listen, I'm not going to come in hot
on the draft because it's a projection draft. Yeah, I'm like, yeah,
I mean, I just I said, I think Cooper Flag's
really good. I think he's a more aggressive, better defender
right now at this point than Tatum. I said, I
think he's really good. He's not good as Tatum, he's
really good. The kid from Baylor. He's a disruptor defensively,

(42:28):
looks like he's going on thousand miles an hour. I'm like,
that's an NBA athlete. Is he going to score a lot?
I don't know. I thought the Spurs did pretty well.
Know what I do think, And I've talked about this
a lot, and I want your reaction. I've been on
this now for about two months. There was about a
twenty year period, so you and I grew up with
the Big East, and if you are a great player

(42:50):
in the Big East, Pearl Washington sort of an exception,
or if you're a great team, you were going to
be an NBA player. Ewing was going to be great
in the NBA just the way it was. There was
about a twenty year run in college basketball when the
G League happened. Guys went to Europe, played one year
of college where like Doug McDermott was the college player

(43:11):
of the year, Tyler Hansborough was you go to the
pros and they were rotational guys. And then two years
ago I watched Yukon and I went, oh, shit, there's
seven NBA players. They have NBA length, They are great.
These are great players. And I thought, oh, that team
could play with you and LV and Duke. That is
a real team. And the reason it happened was guys

(43:34):
are staying maybe a year longer with an IL. Now
American universities are poaching European players. I honestly feel like
the last two years when I've watched college, we had
a twenty year period we were trying to pretend the
sport was good. And Jay Billi said this the other day.
NBA guys don't misopen shots, like it's just the seven

(43:55):
foot guy shoots better than the six to two guy
in college. And I do feel like the NIL for
all the bitching about it. Rick Bettino said this here day,
it's kind of made the G League irrelevant. Shit. I
watched the playoffs Indiana, Oklahoma City. You know G League guys,
I mean a men. Thompson's one of the only G
League unite guys. It's like the second two year college guys,

(44:16):
three year college guys. Chet Holmgrun one year probably should
have stayed a second because his offensive games hit and miss.
But I do feel like the last two years I've
watched college and I think this will help the draft
Ryan because it won't all be Euros. It'll even the
Euros are coming and playing now at Texas, They're coming
to play at Connecticut. I feel like college basketball was

(44:36):
kind of unwatchable for twenty years and people kept saying, oh,
it's great. It wasn't it was diluted, it was bad.
In the last two years, I've been glued to March
Madness and it's just more NBA dudes.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
College basketball is in a weird spot because, you know,
growing up, I probably would rather watch Big Monday than NBA.
You know, back when it was the Big East, and
then you know it was in the PA Ten teams
that were loaded with NBA players, you know, going back
to those UCLA squads, remember Washington State loving that team
that year. Robbie cal Gill, Well, I guess you want

(45:11):
to talk about the NBA guys, So shout out to Robbie.
But I'm I'm with you because I think I even
remember like you and gottlieb arguing it a bit about
it being like, hey, look, college basketball is largely irrelevant
up until we get to March, and with everything feeling
like it has to be an event, which I think
Silver's doing with the NBA, it's like, hey, we've got

(45:32):
the Ncason Tournament. We've got to plan like we have
more almost like specialty events that we can partner in
different ways, like we're kind of just titling some of
the same stuff. But you know, if this means more revenue,
then that's the game. And even though like I've talked
about baseball with this being like, hey, be really happy
or this incredibly successful local market thing, and that your
playoffs are an incredible product and you just hope that

(45:55):
you have enough storylines to carry over that secondary interest.
The tournament doesn't necessarily need all these crazy storylines because
the event itself is still one of the greatest sporting events.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
In the world.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
But your right to point out like whether it was ignite,
you know, with Scoop they had Dyson, they had Hardy
Jalen Green cominga and then you had the amen usar
Thompson deal with overtime. I think yeah, it felt it
was starting to feel like, okay, this is like even

(46:28):
more tenuous for a product that was already really struggling
with its regular season in college basketball. So I think
the tournament has always been something everybody's always going to
care about because it's basically like a football version of
gambling in a different sport where it's just so much
fun and you almost feel left out of American society
if you're not in the tournament. I don't know that
they're ever going to recover any of that stuff from

(46:49):
the regular season. But the draft trends of what was
happening with guys circumventing college because of the compensation going
to New Zealand, you know, playing in the Australian League
and they coming here like it hurt the draraft wise
for you to have eight what college guys before s
s and Gay uh well s and Gay went eleventh,

(47:09):
so well no, Colin went well you went eleventh, yeah yeah,
and the other guy went ninth to Toronto and even
Jae or Demon, you know he comes from Russia, but
he's at BYU because of the NIL stuff, whatever it was.

(47:30):
And I don't I don't know all of a sudden
if everybody's gonna be prioritizing regular season college basketball over
the NBA. But there was something that was incredibly fearful,
as these other alternatives that the NIL has helped college
basketball solve in the short term.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, no, I just I watched the draft last night,
and I watched the yukon a couple of years ago,
and I watched March Madness, and I'm like, oh, cay,
I'm back into the sport. Like and I've always been
sort of loyal to the number. Like I stopped talking
college football for about ten years because it was Alabama
Clemson in Georgia and I felt like nobody Denver West

(48:08):
gives a you know what. And I remember when the
PAC twelve sort of when USC decided we're going in UCLA.
I got a call. I was in Turks and Kkos
with my family and Eric Shanks called me and said,
just want to give you a heads up. This is
going to be announced in about three hours. I was
in an airport and I couldn't tell anybody, but I
started doing some social and having our staff get ready
for it, and I remember thinking, oh, I can talk

(48:29):
college I can talk college football again, you know, like, oh,
USC is going to a conference. And then and then
there was a lot of talk even then about Washington
Oregon getting in. I'm like, Okay, that's a real conference
that they'll be able to compete. They'll get some Midwest kids,
they'll get Big ten money, they'll be more fortified because
the Pac twelve was paying at thirty million a year.
Big Ten's Pania seventy. USC was complaining to me, it's like,

(48:53):
we can't compete with anybody. We have the money. And
so like I feel like, you know, I just follow
what the audience is following. And I would see those
numbers for Alabama couldn't sell out some home games. I
would see some of those numbers, and it was like
people were getting tired of it. I was getting tired
of it. So Alabama, though, I don't know, I'm gonna push.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Back on that. Alabama was an incredibly spoilt fan base,
to the point where SABAN had a beg fans for
day games to come in on some of those lower
level matchups because they just suspected a national championship every time.
I mean, it's the only campus that I'd ever been
to when I used to travel a college game day
because it did the radio part of it along with
TV where it was the only it was the only campus.
I'd be like, oh, game days here again, like whatever,

(49:37):
you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep in. You know,
every other place it's like a not even a national
holiday because you know it might not ever be coming back.
So as you say that, though, like, let's be honest,
would you have avoided talking college football based on some
numbers if you were still at ESPN because I sensed
an SEC mid ten shift there, buddy when you started,

(49:58):
when you started, U we get somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
No, well, no I would. I would say this is
that Klatt is a big notice and so yeah, so
I'm I was always I said this for years. SEC
is the best. They went on recruiting day, they went
on draft Day, they went on Saturday. That's the best.
I don't want to hear it, but I did notice

(50:23):
about four years ago and when the NIL started. And
there's a lot of money in those big ten schools.
Those are sixty thousand student body, a lot of those
graduates do very well. I started noticing like four years ago.
I'm like, yeah, people are poaching Georgia and Bama and
they don't like I think Nick Saban realized, like before
Texas came in, it's like, oh shit, Texas is bigger

(50:44):
than Alabama. Texas looked better than Alabama. So about four
years ago I started saying, and then it was it
was the hardball team before they won. I'm like, yeah,
I think that's they're as good as Georgia. Like I'm
watching the Saturday and I'm like, they got like ten
NFL guys, you know, all over the field. Georgia maybe
has twelve. So I do think about four years ago,

(51:06):
I just watched the games and it's like, you know,
when I first started watching Caitlyn Clark, I was just like, well, shit,
she's shooting from thirty three feet. That doesn't even make it.
I mean, the line's twenty two. So I tend to
trust my eyes. And when the Big Ten, when Harbaugh's
team the year before they won, I was like, oh
they caught up. At least the top of the Big
ten's as good as the top as the SEC.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah, I've heard this. I actually think people are like
more unfair and how they critique the SEC than it
is about being pro SEC because I just see a
lot of media members that all have big ten backgrounds
that have been like incredibly celebratory about what's happened in
the last couple of years. Now I've heard the nil theory.
I think Saban would have figured it out if he

(51:48):
was motivated to figure it out. But he may have
been right. He's been there since two thousand and nine
or no, two thousand and seven, excuse me, two thousand
and seven, that first year where they lost to Louisiana Monroe.
So now I'm trying to remember if I have that
year right. I feel like I feel like I'm messing
up the year because I would have been on college
game day for Tumberville Iron Bowl they got smoked. I

(52:10):
think that would have been two thousand and eight. So anyway,
I gotta look that up. I need I need more results,
I need more parody, I need more balance because you know,
the people that didn't like the SEC still didn't like
the SEC when they had seven different national or excuse me,
seven national championships in a row. You could run through
four or five programs you're like, Okay, they could win

(52:32):
a national championship. They're playing for a national championship. It
didn't feel like the other conferences could be that deep.
Certainly the Big Ten is in the conversation now, especially
when you add a team like Oregon. You could say, hey,
you're also adding Washington, who plays in a national championship
two years ago, so that puts them on the probable list,
even if that is probably more of an aberration for
that program and just having an incredible year where everything
kind of came together. So you might be entirely right

(52:56):
about the balance of it flattening out the top here
a little bit. But I guess for the people that
I know hated the SEC so much, they were still
arguing against the conference when they were winning all these titles.
And so now if the standard is that, yeah, I
wasn't one standards that the Big was won back to
back with two different teams the first time in eighty years,

(53:17):
then the thing that you said didn't even matter when
they were winning is now the thing that matters the most,
because you could also you could also just say, hey,
the SEC had an awful quarterback year, So maybe there
is this shift a shift that's long overdue. You know,
sports are cyclical. Maybe the Big Ten's about to have
this incredible run. But it's very hard for me to

(53:39):
say that because of the National Championship results. And look,
Tennessee looked just fucking frigid against Ohio State, that looked
like a football team that was not interested in competing,
and they get trucked in that game. I just have
a hard time on like the people that do this
for a living, that are on the evaluated side, They're like,

(54:01):
that's still the best conference, Like are you, like, what's
what's going on?

Speaker 1 (54:04):
I think the sixth best team I think I think
I will say this year, I think about the sixth
best team in the Big Ten will be Washington and
I think the sixth best team in the SEC could
be Oklahoma. And so that to me is where about
I think about where we're at. I think I think
they're both and if they played, it's a go either

(54:25):
way game. Whoever is at home wins because I think
Penn State's gonna win it. I have I picked. I
remember when Ohio State lost to Michigan, I said, my
favorite part about college football is Ohio State's going to
lose as a twenty point favorite in their last big game,
and they're going to get into the tournament. And by
the way, Kansas City the year they won the Super
Bowl two years ago got beat by Oakland in like

(54:47):
weeks sixteen or Las Vegas, and I'm like, yeah, they
should be in the playoffs. I don't care, just like
putting the best teams in. I got Penn State win again.
Singleton's amazing, Drew Aller's getting better. I think they're the
best backfield by mile in college sports.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Just to clean it up, it was two thousand and
eight Iron Bowl, Tubberville did get smoked and that was
his last season, So that's I remember just being down
there for that. But Saban had already been there obviously
the previous year when he had the bad record and
people were like, is this guy really going to be
that good?

Speaker 1 (55:16):
He's really good on TV.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
By the way, Yeah, I think he you know, I
think he wants to He takes it really seriously. Yes, yeah,
like he's he's you know, I know a couple of
guys that are really close with him, that are with
them all the time when they're on the road, and
he is like adamant about making sure the stuff that

(55:40):
he's talking about, like he's he's not just out there
like he cares. He actually cares, like what are we
doing similarly doing it? Which actually makes the most sense ever,
if you know anything about the guy where I remember
this story because I've been down there a bunch of
different times and I really loved I just have so
much respect for Saban. I've loved interviewing him. I always
hate it any Belichick comp because I was like, Belichick

(56:02):
is not interesting, Like he goes out of his way
to not be interesting, and that's like the game he's playing,
and Saban is really thoughtful, and for whatever reason, people
try to like lump them in because they were both
successful and have kind of this timpon they're not the
same guy, And like, I think the world of Saban,
and it seems like whatever he's going to do, he

(56:23):
wants to make sure like, Okay, what's what's the best
possible way for us to go ahead and do it,
which is exactly the way he runs a football program.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Well, yeah, that's when I Urban Meyer is a friend
of mine and like Urban watches film, Did I ever
tell you my Urban? And that's when Urban comes on
the show mine like he I will talk to him
before the break. I'm like, have you wat he will
have watched film. I never forget years ago when LSU
played Ohio State. Jim Trussell was the coach, and I

(56:50):
saw urban I can I can tell this story now.
I saw urban in. I think he was at Florida
or was leaving or I forget what it was, but
I think he was at Florida at the time, again.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Because they had just won was he the national championship
the year before?

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yep, and they were LSU was playing Ohio State and
I caught him in the hallway. He went on for
about eight minutes. He literally described the game. He said,
Ohio State will move the ball early. Mo Clorette had
a big run early, I think for a touchdown. He said. Ultimately,
LSU's got about twice as many good receivers, twice as
many good running backs. They'll wear them down, they'll pull

(57:29):
away in the second half, and they'll win by like fourteen.
And he went like for eight to ten minutes. He literally,
I mean he'd watched film for both teams. He literally
he recited the game. So I took that and went
on the game and talked about the game basically using
all of his stuff and say, hey, listen, I just
talked to somebody I trust, blah blah blah. It made
me sound so smart. But he I liked these ex

(57:51):
coaches because a lot of times, I mean, Saba will
watch film before that Saturday show. Urban will go and
watch film and break it down like a coach, and
it's and they're so freed, right, there's no pressure. They're
watching film now without an agenda not to protect anything.
And I think both those guys provide something that film

(58:13):
knowledge that's really valuable to me as a consumer.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah, so LSU wanted, you know seven when they had
the second loss. Remember that was the year in two
thousand and seven where UCF Boston College or ranked number
two West Virginia if they'd beaten Pitt. It's still one
of my favorite college football years ever, because whenever you
go through any like the research backets for an upcoming weekend,
it'll be like, this is the last time. The last
time this happened was in two thousand and seven, because
like two thousand and seven was a free fra aull

(58:37):
And even though LSU had that second loss, they're like, look,
we're just going to vote this team back in. I
remember Trussell after the fact saying that was a game.
When we were preparing for it, we knew we had
no chance. And then they lose to Ohio State. Excuse me,
Ohasate loses the floor to the next year. And that
was the thing, Like, this is the Big ten argument.
This is the pro Big ten argument that for years

(59:01):
we were conditioned, like remember the Alabama Michigan State games
where you were just go jesus.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Oh, thirty four nothing or thirty five seven.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Isn't happening as much anymore, Okay, And that's not just
about the Michigan and Ohio State national championships, and I
think they're kind of like further, the point is that
we may be on the cusp of this thing that
like is real. It's just so hard for me to
think that, like there's going to be another region.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
You know why though, So here's my take on this.
Alabama's doing car washes and bake sales, and Ohio State's
not big ten schools. Most SEC schools are smaller schools.
I think Auburn's like is it sixteen eighteen thousand? Wisconstant?
Ohio State missions.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Are like small cities, man, I mean it's nuts.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
And they all those graduates go all across the America
and they go to New York in LA and they
make a bunch of money and they give it back.
It's much easier for these big ten schools. I mean,
USC is now spending twenty million dollars innil. They're twenty
twenty six class. They just went and bought this insane class.

(01:00:10):
And that's just because of NIL. That's not because they
suddenly figured out how to recruit. They've got money. And
so now the big ten's got Seattle, Los Angeles, Columbus.
You know these are massive. I mean, Penn State's got
Philadelphia and New York graduates everywhere. SCC is a lot
of small towns, and I just don't think the NIL money.

(01:00:34):
I mean, I just don't think they have the NIL money.
In most instance, I think Georgia does, but I don't
think a lot of teams do. George is also closest
to the biggest city in the South, Atlanta. Well there's
more money, more attorneys, more doctors, more you know, venture
capitalists in Atlanta in the South, and they're Georgia.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I do think sometimes too, You'll have you know, it's
a very human nature thing, but you become motivated by
something that you don't think you can get as opposed
to expecting it, right. I mean, it's the King of
the Mountain analogy here, where you know, as Georgia is
motivated to spend when they put together these these runs,

(01:01:12):
like what if Alabama's not in the playoff for ten years?
What do you think, like what do you think that
nil is going to be like? Or whatever? You know,
like Ohio State after losing to Michigan before the season,
and it's still This is one of the things I
think with college football that even though people love the expansion,
I don't. It's more of a reflection of how much
I hate the realignment. I've already done these rants far
too many times. But I'm watching your network and it's

(01:01:34):
Ohio State Michigan and the broadcast is like this is
for everything, and It's like, yeah, except it isn't because
Ohio State's going to lose this and then win a
national championship. And I will forever miss that that is
not on the line. But yes, it doesn't ruin my
enjoyment of this incredible rivalry and what was like an ugly, awesome,
just a brutal game, and you know, the emotions that

(01:01:55):
game are just like they're on the TV screen. It's
it's a fucking awesome product. But when I think about
you know how State this past offseason and grabbing Caleb
Downs as soon as savings out of there, going to
get Will Howard, which you know at the time, remember
like the summer, it was a bit of an argument

(01:02:15):
like hey, well if he was that special, like why
is this guy leaving k State and all these things,
and it just works and we knew that it was
supposedly this twenty million dollar program. Is this about Ohio
States should always be able to fund all this stuff?
If you name the top blue blood programs, the places
where it matters the most. I don't know that this
is ever going to be an issue, but there is
something about that void. There is something about feeling like
this is bullshit that motivates you in a way that's

(01:02:38):
that's just hard to replicate when you're used to all
the success. So I think that's what will probably happen
amongst the top schools. It's just a matter of like
how many of these top programs do you think we'll
have access to maybe a spending spree. And look, apparently
now we have a cap at twenty million for an
entire academic department. Yeah, good luck figuring that one out.

(01:03:00):
Good luck being the tennis coach. You know, like, hey,
she really like this kid from Choke. You're like, yeah,
well we our guy needs a six defensive back. So
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Yeah, that thing a bit of a circus. Yeah, well
I told you it was only gonna take thirty minutes,
but that's not We can't talk for thirty This fucking
thing's already gone an hour.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Sorry. I didn't mean to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
I really didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
I know you're busy. I know you got to do
like sixteen local hits in spoken it's available.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Yeah, are the Sonics coming back? So well no, man,
I just love love talking to you, know how I
feel about you. So whatever you need, same here, all right, buddy,
appreciate it