Jason reacts live after the Oklahoma City Thunder come back with a huge win over the Indiana Pacers in Game 4 of the NBA Finals. He discusses the odd game from Shai Gilgeous-Alexander before he took over late, Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren leading the charge, and Tyrese Haliburton & Pascal Siakam just falling short.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right, welcome to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You're at the volume heavy Friday. Everybody, Oh balth you
guys are having a great week.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Game four. In a series like.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
This, when the team on the road steals, the home
court advantage is typically where the series is decided the
team that wins. If you're the home team and you win,
you go up three to one, all of a sudden,
it's just too big of a deficit for you to overcome.
And then if you're the better team and you have
home court advantage and you steal that game back in
game four, it's two to two, but you have all
(02:28):
the momentum. You only need two more wins, and two
of the last three games are in your home building.
And so this game is always the pivot point for
most playoff series and the thunder when push comes to shove.
Nobody seems to be able to score against this team,
and that's what I will always remember about them. We're
gonna break down this game from the perspective of both teams.
At the tail end of the show, we're gonna have
(02:48):
Jackson come on the show and we're gonna take questions
from the chat so that you guys that have questions
want to get into any specific details or angles on
the series, you can bring them to the chat comments
for the tail.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
End of the show.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And then remember when we wrap up here tonight, we're
gonna be heading over to Playback that's playback dot tv
slash Hoops tonight and we'll be taking callers. We'll watch
some film, we'll dig into what happened in that crazy
game tonight. You guys know the drill before we get started.
Subscribe to the Hoops and I YouTube channel. You don't
miss any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter, underscore, JCNLTS.
You guys don't misshow announcements Sti't forget about our podcast
(03:19):
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also super helpful if you leave a rating and a
review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our
social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure
you guys follow us there. Now that's spent at least,
Like I mentioned earlier, drop those mail bag questions in
the chat and we'll get to them at the tail
end of the show. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So I have been pretty consistent with this Thunder team
(03:41):
in this postseason run that the true star of this team,
the strength of this team. The thing that I will
remember most about this team is their defense. I thought
Jadubb had an awesome game tonight, especially relative to his
age and experience, provided some pretty steady scoring for TEA
that was struggling to score, especially throughout the middle portions
(04:03):
of this game. But I thought Shay was a disaster
the majority of the game. I thought he looked generally
disengaged and extremely fatigued, to the point where like I
was like starting to wonder if there was something bigger
going on, like he was sick or something along those lines.
And he made some plays late in the game, which
we're going to discuss, But this team was dead in
the water and unable to score when they needed to,
(04:24):
even in that fourth quarter for the most part. But
we saw a similar thing take place in the Denver
series in the second round, where it's the fourth quarter,
Denver's up, it's Game four, They're on the verge of
taking a three to one lead in the series. But
something happened from that point forward through the end of
(04:45):
Game four against Denver. The Denver Nuggets led by the
greatest offensive player I've ever personally watched in Nikole Jokic,
and they couldn't score. They couldn't score. The series was
on the line, it was hanging in the balance, and
they couldn't score, even when Denver managed to pull out
a Game six to send it back to Oklahoma City
(05:06):
for Game seven. What happened in Game seven, the Nuggets
couldn't score. They couldn't even get the ball to Jokics
where they needed to get it to come into this series,
the Pacers kind of methodically generating quality shots even throughout
the game tonight, like they had at least twenty five.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Points in every quarter through the first three quarters. Throughout
the series.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Have talked about how the Pacers have shown some ability
to be able to break down the defense as long
as they don't turn it over. And in this fourth quarter,
when everything was hanging in the balance, I think the
Pacers led by as much as seven or eight in
the fourth quarter if I remember correctly, they couldn't score.
When it came time to be able to pull this
(05:47):
series into a three to one lead, in a situation
where they would be probably favored in Vegas to win
at that point, they couldn't score. And that's what I
remember about this Thunder team. They can leverage them selves
athletically in a way that Indiana can't match. They can
leverage themselves athletically as a team defensively that nobody in
(06:09):
the league can match, even the best and most reliable offenses.
Denver had the best offensive player possibly in the history
of the game.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Couldn't score.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Indiana has the second or third best offensive engine in
the NBA, surrounded by a good amount of cumulative ball
handling and shooting ability. Couldn't score. That's where it all
comes down to. I talked a lot after Game three.
If you guys remember, in all the content that we
produced over the last few days, I explained to you
(06:39):
guys why I still had Oklahoma City as the team
I expected to win the series. I said, they win
game four. I said they win Game five. I said
they'd win one of game six or seven. So Oklahoma
City and six or seven. And if you guys remember,
the specific thing I said was that Oklahoma City had
two semi reliable actions they could run to be able
(07:00):
to generate offense when things really bogged down and everything's.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
On the line.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I said, Shae attacking turner and pick and roll, which
is not what they went to down the stretch of
this game. And then Shae ISOs, which is exactly what
they went to down the stretch of this game. Those
were two actions that no matter what Indiana does, Oklahoma
City can either get a good shot for Shay that
he can make, or draw a double team that leads
(07:27):
to some sort of quality look, and we saw an
example of that where Nemhar dug down on Shae and
got kicked to JDub. Jdubb drove the close out and
ended up generating a wide open three for Shae on
the right wing. But ultimately Oklahoma City, when things really
bogged down, had a couple of things they could go
to that were gonna generate good looks for Indiana. On
(07:50):
the other end, Dort is flying over the top of
screens and not allowing Tyres to free up. They finally
get a good screen and he gets switched on to
Chet and he's able to go to a step back three.
But it's a step back three versus Chet. That's not
a super high percentage look. The Pacers throughout this series
have established a lot of cumulative success through their ball pressure,
(08:12):
fatiguing Oklahoma City's ball handlers. I underrated. If there was
one thing that I underrated in terms of Indiana's chances
to win this series, it's that Oklahoma City is really
light on ball handling, even though they're super talented roster.
Their talent comes in the form of quickness, athleticism, defense,
a lot of different things that aren't necessarily dribbling the
(08:35):
basketball in high level playmaking, and so they've been more
susceptible to Indiana's ball pressure.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
They've been more.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Susceptible to fatigue as Indiana's ball pressure has worn them down.
But that weakness made this series more competitive. But even
throughout that, as Indiana had their moments, as they got
their offense going in various ways at various points in
the series, they never established one single action or play
(09:04):
type that they could go to that's like, this is
going to get us a good shot. Every single time
the tyres ball screens, it's like, well, what if Dort
just doesn't get screened, or if they switch. Now it's
a Tyrese iso. We're not getting anything super reliable out
of that. Siakim has had moments attacking out of the
post in the series, it hasn't been something that has
(09:26):
been super reliable generating great shots. They tried the Tyree
Siakam two man game at various points they can.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Switch it, there have not.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
There the Pacers never established anything that they could really
really depend on. Down the stretch, we saw a steady
diet of Shaye JDub two man game. One of the
interesting subplots of the series is you know, we talked
about going in how like we didn't really get any
opportunity to see Nie Smith spend some extensive time on
Shay and Carlisle ended up making the right decision in
(09:57):
going with Nemhart in this series, and Nemhart has done
an incredible job on Shae.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Throughout the series.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
JDub has spent the majority excuse me, Nie Smith has
spent the majority of the series on JDub, and JDub
has cooked his ass, just cooked him and down the stretch,
instead of having JDub go at Nie Smith, they just
ran two man game to get Nie Smith switched on
to Shay, and Shay cooked him. Now, I have some
(10:25):
frustrations about the specific manner with which these situations led
to points, which we'll go get to in a minute,
but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. With how good Oklahoma
City's defense was, they were gonna win this game. But
they were able to get a triple threat ISO against
Nie Smith where he had his arm on Shae's left arm,
and so Shay took a non basketball shot and got
(10:46):
rewarded with two points for it.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Then they went to that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Another ISO off of the right wing, Nemhard pinches down
and gets kicked back to jdb JDub drives to close out.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Both guys react.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's a wide open three for Shay, but that wide
open three was generated by Shay because of his ability
to draw the second defender in an ISO against Nie
Smith and then the pushoff there along the baseline once
again a bucket against Nie Smith, and then the step
through move. I actually thought Nie Smith played really good
defense on this possession and kind of bailed Shay out
about Shay also traveled on the possession, so it was
(11:20):
again kind of a questionable call, but all of the
buckets down the stretch were Shay going at Nie Smith.
They had a reliable action, They had something they could run.
Shay is capable of getting his one on one game
off against the majority of the guys on this roster,
but he found a specific matchup in Indy starting five
in their closing five that he liked to attack, and
(11:41):
he was able to get the buckets that he needed
to put his team in position to win the game
on the strength of their defense. Another huge element I
thought in the fourth quarter of this game was the
offensive rebounding of Chet Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein. We had
a boatload of free throws down the stretch. So Oklahoma
City ended up with thirty one points, but it wasn't
at as easy breezy for them scoring throughout the majority
(12:03):
of the fourth quarter. I thought Shaye and Jada was
pretty good throughout the night, but I thought Shaye played
pretty shitty half court offense the majority of the night,
and there were a lot of misses in there. And
in those misses, time and time again, Chet would just
come flying and off that left wing for offensive rebound
put backs. He had I think two that led to
direct buckets, one where he taffed it out, in another
(12:27):
Shaye ended up getting a bucket off of the tap out,
and then Hartenstein had an offensive rebound put back just
by my count, eight second chance points for the thunder
in that fourth quarter that bolstered their offense when they
needed it. So like when push comes to shove, when
I think about this series, when I think about this team,
when I think about them winning the championship, the best
(12:50):
attribute to this team is their defense. When push comes
to shove and it's time for them to win, team,
they just tightened the screws and teams can't score, and
they were able to dominate the margins. Those huge offensive
rebounds from Chet and Isaiah Hartenstein in the fourth quarter,
the steals at half court. Dork got another big one
(13:10):
down the stretch where he drew a foul. How many
times in this game, like four or five times where
they ripped a pacer usually Halliburton right at half court.
Almost every one of them led to buckets. We pulled
the points off of turnovers here real quick. Yeah, we
had on sixteen pacer turnovers twenty five points for the
thunder going the other way. That's a huge margin there.
(13:35):
The grifting drives me crazy, but it's a way to
win basketball games in the modern NBA. Like we could
talk all we want, it got rewarded in this game,
and it's generally been rewarded. There have been a couple
of like lane line bump fouls that Shay's gone for
in the series that he hasn't gotten, but there's ultimately
(13:56):
that's a margin. It's a competitive margin, and it's a
margin that Shay's really good at, and that has been
a big part of how they were able to overcome
a lot of mediocre half court offense in this game.
Looking forward, as we talk about how this series progresses,
do I think this has a good chance to go seven? Yeah,
because Indiana, especially in a non urgent situation for the
(14:18):
Thunder where they're up three to two, Indiana at home
is going to be tough to beat, like in that
sort of situation. So I think the series has a
decent chance to go seven. But whenever it happens, whether
it's Game five and the Pacers play hard and keep
things close, but there's five minutes left and the thunderneed
to tighten the screws, or whether it's in Game six
(14:39):
in the fourth quarter, it inevitably ends up in a
Game seven in the fourth quarter when it really comes
down to this next four to five minute stretch is
going to determine who wins the finals. Oklahoma City is
going to tighten the screws in Indiana is not gonna
be able to score, and that ultimately is what is
what makes them the champion when it's all and done,
(15:00):
and that's ultimately why I think Oklahoma City's gonna win.
It's the guards and their unwillingness to get screened, the
physical switching. As bad as Shay was tonight. I thought
he was very good defensively in the second half. Got
a huge block on a step back three at the
top of the key, had some steals and poke aways,
like an over the top steal on a post entry.
(15:22):
Even Shay gets involved in what they do defensively. Chet
home grin Chet's ability to switch in ball screens and like, yeah,
Halliburn's got him a few times in the series, got
him with a little scoop shot there in the fourth quarter.
But for the most part, Chet's ability to switch on
to the perimeter and have success there makes their defense
kind of impregnable in a lot of ways because their
(15:44):
guards don't get screened, and if they happen to get screened,
they can switch just about anything. And that's the foundational
trait that makes this Thunder team a championship level team.
Before we get to our mailbags, the grifty stuff at
the end, I have to just speak up for just
a second here to be clear, the Thunder won this
(16:04):
game with their defense. The Thunder would have won this game.
I believe even if these of one or two of
these fouls didn't go Oklahoma City's direction. But one of
the things I've talked about is with grifting. It's about
the television product. I have no problem with Shake Gilders
Alexander taking advantage of competitive advantages that are available to him. So,
(16:26):
for instance, if you're standing in the NBA and the
guy's got his hand on his shoulder, like like just
sitting there on Shay's right shoulder, and you just go
up and you like you're standing there in that position,
you should just go up and throw your arms into
his arm and try to shoot. Why because it's gonna
get rewarded with points and so you're just taking advantage
(16:46):
of a competitive advantage that's available to you. But it's
not a good basketball shot. That shouldn't be a shot.
It should just be a foul, Like if a guy's
gonna put his hands on you like that. First of all,
it's kind of ridiculous considering how much handsiness takes place
in every single one of these possessions. Look it out, handsy.
Oklahoma City was on defense in the fourth quarter. But like,
we don't want to see the finals get decided on
(17:09):
a non basketball shot at the elbow. We don't want
to see the finals get decided by Nie Smith sliding
his feet well, in his Super Bowl super physical possession
that literally led to Shaye traveling and him going into
like a step through floater and bailing him out over
some light forearm contact. And by the way, if that's
the one call, no one's gonna care. That sort of
(17:32):
thing is gonna happen here or there throughout the Finals.
But like that, in conjunction with the uh uh, with
that little touch on the step through, I thought Halli
Burton got fouled worse on his drive, the one that
he went into the lane than shaded on his little
hand on the shoulder thing, and then the push offf
there right along the baseline. Like if Shae has iconic
playoff moments where he hits big big shots getting separation
(17:56):
from defenders, it'll go on historic playoff highlight reel that
everyone will remember for all time. But when you see
a guy like, straight up like doing the same grifty
bullshit that he's been doing all season to win a
finals game, it's not a fun television product. It's not
fun to watch, and it just kind of was a buzzkill.
You know, Jackson and I were talking in the middle
(18:18):
of the fourth quarter. This was one of the most
entertaining NBA Finals that we've ever seen. But my biggest
fear in general with Oklahoma City and their success is
just the that grifty bullshit and how it just makes
for an ugly television product. And I wasn't a huge
fan of that. Down the stretch. It just kind of
just kind of felt like, like, guys don't like, you
(18:40):
don't have to give them that call. Their defense is
good enough, they're probably gonna win. Shay is a good player,
he can knock down shots. He might make shots here
there by the way, Like this is the thing with
the pushot. I don't care about the push off. If
you don't call the grifty bullshit, let Shay push off.
Let the defenders use their hands. That's all I've ever
(19:01):
asked for is consistency in that regard. You can't reward
Shay with free throws for non basketball shots or bad
basketball and then also let him get super physical with
defenders and shove them off to get to his spots.
That's straight up not fair, and I just thought that
(19:23):
that was frustrating down the stretch of the game.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
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Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm off by soapbox Jackson.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Let's get into some mailbad questions and if there yeah,
if there's like a thunder fan out there that wants
to cape for this shit, I.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Want to hear it. I want to hear it.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, there are some thunderfins in the chat saying, you know,
caping for the for the grift. But we got a
couple of questions about the about the refereeing, so I
don't know if you want to stay on that.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
For a minute's say on the restaurant, Hey, Jason.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I thought the rest tonight called the game much differently
in the differently than the rest of the playoffs, but
at least it felt like it was happening both ways.
What was your take on sort of the zoom out
of the refereeing, like being definitely different than earlier in
the playoffs. And then specifically it felt like Scott Foster
was kind of trying to, you know, put his hands
on the game a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, Scott Foster is one of the most performative refs
I've ever seen. You can always tell just by like
the little extra flair that he puts on all the
bs that he does. I I was frustrated in general
throughout the flow of that game because it's it goes
both ways. Because on the one hand, it's super physical,
it's game four, the teams are starting to hate each other,
they're starting to get a little chippy, so you got
(20:59):
to kind of keep things on control. But at the
same time, when the stoppages and the reviews just get
so excessive, it really bothers the flow of the game.
My thing is one of the most consistent trends that
has been frustrating for me watching the Thunder in this postseason,
and it's the Chris Finch quote. They foiled the shit
out of you all game, and then the then you
allow the grifty stuff to happen. I mean, I texted
(21:19):
you before that Shay run when the Pacers built a
little bit of a lead and then we had a
lane line bump foul call for JDub on a on
a on a drive and it's just like it just
feels lame. It's like, here comes the Thunder run, We're
headed to the foul line. Like it just it feels
like that is the way with which they generated offense
in a game like where they played bad offense. And
that's the thing is, like, I'm a big believer in
(21:41):
like I want good basketball to be rewarded and I
want bad basketball to be punished. And I thought that
the Thunder played a lot of bad offensive basketball in
this game that got rewarded with points.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
It's just it's tough. It's I understand the Thunder fans
and the Shave fans saying like what do you want
him to do? And it's at a certain point it's
Shay's fault. Like I'm not saying it's he he's the
one who's the problem here, but the ecosystem of the
fouls and what is allowed on the other end, it's
it's challenging a little bit.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I think, do you agree with me that, Like the
problem is you can't like like you gotta have one
or the other, Like you gotta either let Shaye push
off and let these defenders put their hands on him,
or you got to call the offensive foul in addition
to calling the griffy stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I think it's that combined with the the physicality of
the contact that's allowed on the other record before, which
is not to take away from the way the Thunder
play defense. I don't have a problem with the way
the Thunder play defense, just like I don't have a
problem with the way that andrewn Emhard plays defense on
Shady Gillen Tlexander for the most part, right like, and
I don't have a problem with Tyre's Halliburton leaning into
chet when there's and the bonus to get it, you know,
Like that's fine, that's basketball. But there's a certain it
(22:47):
becomes it becomes something else sometimes, I.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Think, and it's just not fun to watch, is the
bottom line. Like we like, we don't want to see
a huge iconic playoff game get decided like that. We
don't like we want to see the action with that
they ran that generated Shaye the wide open three at
the top of the key. That felt like a huge
playoff shot. That felt like just a massive playoff shot
for Shay in a game where he had been pretty rough.
(23:10):
The other stuff just felt like him exploiting loopholes.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
All right, next question, we can move off the ref
so everyone in the chat can take a breathing.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Do you think love to the chat?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Of course?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Do you think Jason that the.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Pacers now they have to win one game on the
road if they want to win the NBA Finals, have
a better chance in Game five or in game seven?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Game five? For sure?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I think there's always a natural kind of ebb and
flow back and forth as the series kind of flow.
I mean, we even saw Denver take a commanding nine
point lead in the early fourth quarter of Game five.
It just to me it just doesn't matter because the
Thunder could be down by eleven with nine and a
half minutes left of Game five, and I would just
(23:57):
feel like they could tighten the screws and then Indiana
would suddenly go life like this is legitimately crazy. It's
a consistent trend, like they just completely shut your water off.
They shut your water off, and there's nothing you can do.
And again, I do believe their best chance to win
is gonna be Game five. Like, if the Pacers are
gonna win the series, they win the next two games.
I just don't think. I think, when when all the
(24:20):
stuff is on the line, I don't think anybody can
score on this this Oklahoma City team the way they
need to. I think Indiana's one chance as Oklahoma City
comes out really flat in Game five and Indiana brings
a ton of energy and all of a sudden it
turns into a fourth quarter close game. But like somehow
Oklahoma City goes colder than Indiana does. That would be
their one chance.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, the the the Dork Caruso combination, plus the switch
ability and length of chat on the back end, like
they have so many unbelievable athletes, unbelievable defenders, just a
million ways to get stops in a million ways to
create hapoic. It's it's really when they decide we're ratching
it up right now, it is. It is startling to watch.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
They're the best defense that I've watched in my time
covering the league. I just I can't remember a time
where I saw a team consistently strangle.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
The life out of like truly elite offenses.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
There have been a lot of really great defenses that
have come close, you know, like I think the twenty
nineteen Raptors was a very good defense. I think the
twenty twenty Lakers was a very good defense. Even the
Warriors in twenty twenty two very good defense. But I
don't think any of those defenses come close to just
the overwhelming, like just physical, oppressive, ball pressure and unscreenable
(25:35):
but still switchable. It's just they're frightening. I tweeted out
right at the end of the third quarter, I was like,
this is where Oklahoma City's gonna throw their best defensive
punch and we're gonna find out if Indiana can score.
And they couldn't score. Ultimately that we all knew it
was coming.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Everyone knew.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's like staring everybody right in the face. But it's
just as an unconquerable demon.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And credit to Shay. You said it earlier that he
was bad most of the game offensively, but he was
very good defensively. In the fourth quarter, he hit the
block on Howie. I think he had two different poke
like steals when they were trying to do a post entry.
He was very active, and I think that is sort
of what one of the things amongst the many things
with their defense that contributes to them being an all
(26:18):
time defense, is they their worst guy that you're picking
on is competent at worst.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, No, I totally agree. It's those last possessions in
the game. It's like, those are makeable shots, Like the
Tyree step back against Chedd. He got decent separation, but
that's a really long defender. He shooting over the nemhard
step back that he missed off the back round, like
that was a really good contest, even though it was
a decent look. Like, Yeah, I think the ones that
(26:44):
you'll think back to if you're a pacer fan are
the wide open looks that Nie Smith and Turner missed.
There were there were a solid half dozen great three
point looks that Nie Smith and Turner got in this game,
and they just couldn't make them. Do you think Carlisle
should have gone with like maybe Ben mather I mean,
Mathern came in at the very end, but like mather
(27:05):
In and and Top and more down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Of this game.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's it's a good question. It's one of our questions.
Why is that we got in the chat? Why does
Myles Turner get so many minutes when he has been
pretty bad for most of the series and Topping has
been so good. And it's it's hard because one of
the things that they were getting killed on was the glass,
and you know in theory Turners a better better player
there on the glass and top of it, and Nie
Smith had like nine rebounds, So it's it's tough to
(27:31):
to to say who they should go with, but it
does feel like the Top and Siakam front court minutes
are the best ones for them. And I think Mathrin
at least in at least in Game three, it felt
like he was doing a better job staying attached to
some of these guards Jane Williams and SGA specifically than
Nie Smith. So I think if you're if you're a
(27:52):
Pacers fan, if your carlis and you're looking for what
do we have a desperation punch? Like, hopefully we're just
in the game in general we don't have to do that,
but if we need to for down seven with four minutes,
what is our big swing? I think it's probably the
Mathrin and Top and over Nie Smith and Turner.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I mean Nie Smith like was fuck, he was hacking.
He was hacking like on a bunch of like he
hacked Chet on a play where and again it's all
like it's good defense in principle until the very end,
but it's like, especially with the way that game was
getting officiated for Shay and and like you you can't
be you can't be as handsy as he was, and
it just it was frustrating. It felt felt very much
(28:29):
like a missed opportunity for Indiana. But like the only
reason why I like, even with the stuff with uh, like,
let's say a couple more of those turner threes go
down or something like that, and Indiana's up by like,
you know, twelve going into the fourth quarter instead of
seven or whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I still I still just feel like push comes to shove.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
This Oklahoma City team can tighten the screws and no
one can score on him. And that really is That's
the thing that I'm gonna remember the most about this team.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah. One one, we had a couple more questions, one
from me and then one from a super tat question
to end with, I was thinking about the Niemith problem
and a lot of the switches that they got for
Shay at the end of the game were guard guard
screens where they were like, well, we can switch these.
We don't need to chase over with that mark. We
can switch these. How if they don't want to switch.
(29:13):
If we're saying the Niemith is gonna get cooked by
Shay or at least not every time, but you know
the majority of the time, what's the move there? Do
you just chase over the top and hedge and hope
that Jalen Williams isn't good enough on the back end
to beat you?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Like, what's this?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
What do you do if you're the pacers that worked
really well down the stretch to get switches?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, all you can do is blitzer hedge. Those are
really your only two options. And I mean there are
variations of hedges you can like you can do. You
can do like a really soft like catch hedge where
you're primarily just functioning to take away a drive if
he turns the corner. But even then, like if you
linger at all on the ball and j Deb slips out.
We talk about baked in driving lanes a lot on
this show. Basically to make a long story short, if
(29:51):
you slip out of a screen or even if you're
just in in spot up a spot up situation on
the opposite wing. So like balls on the right wing,
you're standing on the left wing, or you're slipping out
of a guard guard screen to the left wing, if
that defender is in nail help, or if he's lingering
in a hedge or doing anything along those lines, all
you have to do is throw a swing pass and
(30:11):
then rip to the left and then and then you're
in good shape. I think, honestly, like if there was
a if there was a mistake made down the stretch
from Indiana in terms of their defensive execution, it's the
lack of double teams. Like they had a lot of
success double teaming Shay throughout the game. I mean it's
zero sists and then down the stretch they let him
play one on one and they did dig down to
(30:33):
the nail, but it's like you end up giving up
closeouts anyway. Like it's just I would have liked to
have seen a little bit more aggression thrown directly at Shay,
but none if it matters if Indiana can't score on
the other end, And that's what I keep coming back to.
Last question.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
This one was a super Chat question from jam shout
out to you JM. Every game this series. It feels
very similar to the OKAC Denver series. Okay, see blows
a fourth quarter leading Game one, they won Game two
by a lot, it was a close Game three, and
then actually make the comeback to win its Game four.
What is your take on that doesn't feel similar to you?
And then does that mean that we're going to get seven.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
In this series?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So it's it's I don't think it feels similar in
terms of like the basketball because the basketball dynamic in
the two series is so different. You know, obviously, Jokic
was just straight up and dominable at times. Denver their
defense was much more of like a pack to paint.
We're mixing, mixing in a lot of zone, more passive,
more contain that kind of thing. Indiana's applying a ton
(31:29):
of ball pressures. There's a lot of like differences in
the schematics. The reason why it feels like the Denver
series is that this is actually a very common series
progression that we see in the history of the NBA,
which is you have a massive favorite, or not even
a massive favorite, just a favorite. Because I think we
can all agree that Oklahoma City probably shouldn't have been
favored by as much as they were now, like and
(31:51):
again my big misjudgment there was just Oklahoma City's lack
of ball handling and not properly accounting for that with
Indiana's ball pressure. But you have this per that takes
place where the underdog steals a game on the road,
whether it's game one or game two, it really don't matter.
And then they come home and they're super excited, and
game three has this like buzzsaw feel. And then you
(32:12):
also have to keep in mind like even for the
road team, it's still not really that desperate. It's just
a one to one series, you know, and so they
end up getting Game three. But game four always feels
like the pivot point. The underdog always knows like, if
we do not win this game, we're probably not winning
this series, and so it brings a level of urgency
in Game four kind of takes the feel of a
(32:33):
Game seven in terms of like both teams know they
desperately need that one, and the better team usually wins
that type of game, like especially in the pros, like
in college, there's a little bit more variance, and that's
why the NCAA Tournament is the way that it is,
but in the pros there's a little less variance, and
so it kind of feels like the better team tends
to win that Game four And you know, from here
it just comes down to whether or not Indiana has
(32:54):
the pride to win one more of these games, especially
Game six at home, and we've seen teams that don't.
You know, we've seen teams that come home in game
six and just get rolled. I don't think the Pacers
will get rolled. I think that'll be a good competitive game.
But like it just to me, Oklahoma City was the
better team and they got punched in the mouth by Indiana.
And it's definitely been more precarious than it looked on
the surface because of the reasons we've discussed. But ultimately,
(33:14):
Oklahoma City is the better team, and when the shit
hits the fan and they need to win a game,
they're gonna be able to win a game against this team.
All right, guys, that's all we have for YouTube tonight.
As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting us and
supporting the show. Head over to playback dot tv slash
Hoops tonight. We're gonna be hanging out there taking callers
and watching some film.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
We'll see you guys over there in a few minutes.
What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
As always, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute
to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
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Slash audio.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right, welcome to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You're at the volume heavy Friday. Everybody, Oh balth you
guys are having a great week.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Game four. In a series like.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
This, when the team on the road steals, the home
court advantage is typically where the series is decided the
team that wins. If you're the home team and you win,
you go up three to one, all of a sudden,
it's just too big of a deficit for you to overcome.
And then if you're the better team and you have
home court advantage and you steal that game back in
game four, it's two to two, but you have all
(02:28):
the momentum. You only need two more wins, and two
of the last three games are in your home building.
And so this game is always the pivot point for
most playoff series and the thunder when push comes to shove.
Nobody seems to be able to score against this team,
and that's what I will always remember about them. We're
gonna break down this game from the perspective of both teams.
At the tail end of the show, we're gonna have
(02:48):
Jackson come on the show and we're gonna take questions
from the chat so that you guys that have questions
want to get into any specific details or angles on
the series, you can bring them to the chat comments
for the tail.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
End of the show.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
And then remember when we wrap up here tonight, we're
gonna be heading over to Playback that's playback dot tv
slash Hoops tonight and we'll be taking callers. We'll watch
some film, we'll dig into what happened in that crazy
game tonight. You guys know the drill before we get started.
Subscribe to the Hoops and I YouTube channel. You don't
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(03:19):
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social media feeds Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Make sure
you guys follow us there. Now that's spent at least,
Like I mentioned earlier, drop those mail bag questions in
the chat and we'll get to them at the tail
end of the show. All right, let's talk some basketball.
So I have been pretty consistent with this Thunder team
(03:41):
in this postseason run that the true star of this team,
the strength of this team. The thing that I will
remember most about this team is their defense. I thought
Jadubb had an awesome game tonight, especially relative to his
age and experience, provided some pretty steady scoring for TEA
that was struggling to score, especially throughout the middle portions
(04:03):
of this game. But I thought Shay was a disaster
the majority of the game. I thought he looked generally
disengaged and extremely fatigued, to the point where like I
was like starting to wonder if there was something bigger
going on, like he was sick or something along those lines.
And he made some plays late in the game, which
we're going to discuss, But this team was dead in
the water and unable to score when they needed to,
(04:24):
even in that fourth quarter for the most part. But
we saw a similar thing take place in the Denver
series in the second round, where it's the fourth quarter,
Denver's up, it's Game four, They're on the verge of
taking a three to one lead in the series. But
something happened from that point forward through the end of
(04:45):
Game four against Denver. The Denver Nuggets led by the
greatest offensive player I've ever personally watched in Nikole Jokic,
and they couldn't score. They couldn't score. The series was
on the line, it was hanging in the balance, and
they couldn't score, even when Denver managed to pull out
a Game six to send it back to Oklahoma City
(05:06):
for Game seven. What happened in Game seven, the Nuggets
couldn't score. They couldn't even get the ball to Jokics
where they needed to get it to come into this series,
the Pacers kind of methodically generating quality shots even throughout
the game tonight, like they had at least twenty five.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Points in every quarter through the first three quarters. Throughout
the series.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Have talked about how the Pacers have shown some ability
to be able to break down the defense as long
as they don't turn it over. And in this fourth quarter,
when everything was hanging in the balance, I think the
Pacers led by as much as seven or eight in
the fourth quarter if I remember correctly, they couldn't score.
When it came time to be able to pull this
(05:47):
series into a three to one lead, in a situation
where they would be probably favored in Vegas to win
at that point, they couldn't score. And that's what I
remember about this Thunder team. They can leverage them selves
athletically in a way that Indiana can't match. They can
leverage themselves athletically as a team defensively that nobody in
(06:09):
the league can match, even the best and most reliable offenses.
Denver had the best offensive player possibly in the history
of the game.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Couldn't score.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Indiana has the second or third best offensive engine in
the NBA, surrounded by a good amount of cumulative ball
handling and shooting ability. Couldn't score. That's where it all
comes down to. I talked a lot after Game three.
If you guys remember, in all the content that we
produced over the last few days, I explained to you
(06:39):
guys why I still had Oklahoma City as the team
I expected to win the series. I said, they win
game four. I said they win Game five. I said
they'd win one of game six or seven. So Oklahoma
City and six or seven. And if you guys remember,
the specific thing I said was that Oklahoma City had
two semi reliable actions they could run to be able
(07:00):
to generate offense when things really bogged down and everything's.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
On the line.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I said, Shae attacking turner and pick and roll, which
is not what they went to down the stretch of
this game. And then Shae ISOs, which is exactly what
they went to down the stretch of this game. Those
were two actions that no matter what Indiana does, Oklahoma
City can either get a good shot for Shay that
he can make, or draw a double team that leads
(07:27):
to some sort of quality look, and we saw an
example of that where Nemhar dug down on Shae and
got kicked to JDub. Jdubb drove the close out and
ended up generating a wide open three for Shae on
the right wing. But ultimately Oklahoma City, when things really
bogged down, had a couple of things they could go
to that were gonna generate good looks for Indiana. On
(07:50):
the other end, Dort is flying over the top of
screens and not allowing Tyres to free up. They finally
get a good screen and he gets switched on to
Chet and he's able to go to a step back three.
But it's a step back three versus Chet. That's not
a super high percentage look. The Pacers throughout this series
have established a lot of cumulative success through their ball pressure,
(08:12):
fatiguing Oklahoma City's ball handlers. I underrated. If there was
one thing that I underrated in terms of Indiana's chances
to win this series, it's that Oklahoma City is really
light on ball handling, even though they're super talented roster.
Their talent comes in the form of quickness, athleticism, defense,
a lot of different things that aren't necessarily dribbling the
(08:35):
basketball in high level playmaking, and so they've been more
susceptible to Indiana's ball pressure.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
They've been more.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Susceptible to fatigue as Indiana's ball pressure has worn them down.
But that weakness made this series more competitive. But even
throughout that, as Indiana had their moments, as they got
their offense going in various ways at various points in
the series, they never established one single action or play
(09:04):
type that they could go to that's like, this is
going to get us a good shot. Every single time
the tyres ball screens, it's like, well, what if Dort
just doesn't get screened, or if they switch. Now it's
a Tyrese iso. We're not getting anything super reliable out
of that. Siakim has had moments attacking out of the
post in the series, it hasn't been something that has
(09:26):
been super reliable generating great shots. They tried the Tyree
Siakam two man game at various points they can.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Switch it, there have not.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
There the Pacers never established anything that they could really
really depend on. Down the stretch, we saw a steady
diet of Shaye JDub two man game. One of the
interesting subplots of the series is you know, we talked
about going in how like we didn't really get any
opportunity to see Nie Smith spend some extensive time on
Shay and Carlisle ended up making the right decision in
(09:57):
going with Nemhart in this series, and Nemhart has done
an incredible job on Shae.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Throughout the series.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
JDub has spent the majority excuse me, Nie Smith has
spent the majority of the series on JDub, and JDub
has cooked his ass, just cooked him and down the stretch,
instead of having JDub go at Nie Smith, they just
ran two man game to get Nie Smith switched on
to Shay, and Shay cooked him. Now, I have some
(10:25):
frustrations about the specific manner with which these situations led
to points, which we'll go get to in a minute,
but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. With how good Oklahoma
City's defense was, they were gonna win this game. But
they were able to get a triple threat ISO against
Nie Smith where he had his arm on Shae's left arm,
and so Shay took a non basketball shot and got
(10:46):
rewarded with two points for it.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Then they went to that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Another ISO off of the right wing, Nemhard pinches down
and gets kicked back to jdb JDub drives to close out.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Both guys react.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's a wide open three for Shay, but that wide
open three was generated by Shay because of his ability
to draw the second defender in an ISO against Nie
Smith and then the pushoff there along the baseline once
again a bucket against Nie Smith, and then the step
through move. I actually thought Nie Smith played really good
defense on this possession and kind of bailed Shay out
about Shay also traveled on the possession, so it was
(11:20):
again kind of a questionable call, but all of the
buckets down the stretch were Shay going at Nie Smith.
They had a reliable action, They had something they could run.
Shay is capable of getting his one on one game
off against the majority of the guys on this roster,
but he found a specific matchup in Indy starting five
in their closing five that he liked to attack, and
(11:41):
he was able to get the buckets that he needed
to put his team in position to win the game
on the strength of their defense. Another huge element I
thought in the fourth quarter of this game was the
offensive rebounding of Chet Holmgren and Isaiah Hartenstein. We had
a boatload of free throws down the stretch. So Oklahoma
City ended up with thirty one points, but it wasn't
at as easy breezy for them scoring throughout the majority
(12:03):
of the fourth quarter. I thought Shaye and Jada was
pretty good throughout the night, but I thought Shaye played
pretty shitty half court offense the majority of the night,
and there were a lot of misses in there. And
in those misses, time and time again, Chet would just
come flying and off that left wing for offensive rebound
put backs. He had I think two that led to
direct buckets, one where he taffed it out, in another
(12:27):
Shaye ended up getting a bucket off of the tap out,
and then Hartenstein had an offensive rebound put back just
by my count, eight second chance points for the thunder
in that fourth quarter that bolstered their offense when they
needed it. So like when push comes to shove, when
I think about this series, when I think about this team,
when I think about them winning the championship, the best
(12:50):
attribute to this team is their defense. When push comes
to shove and it's time for them to win, team,
they just tightened the screws and teams can't score, and
they were able to dominate the margins. Those huge offensive
rebounds from Chet and Isaiah Hartenstein in the fourth quarter,
the steals at half court. Dork got another big one
(13:10):
down the stretch where he drew a foul. How many
times in this game, like four or five times where
they ripped a pacer usually Halliburton right at half court.
Almost every one of them led to buckets. We pulled
the points off of turnovers here real quick. Yeah, we
had on sixteen pacer turnovers twenty five points for the
thunder going the other way. That's a huge margin there.
(13:35):
The grifting drives me crazy, but it's a way to
win basketball games in the modern NBA. Like we could
talk all we want, it got rewarded in this game,
and it's generally been rewarded. There have been a couple
of like lane line bump fouls that Shay's gone for
in the series that he hasn't gotten, but there's ultimately
(13:56):
that's a margin. It's a competitive margin, and it's a
margin that Shay's really good at, and that has been
a big part of how they were able to overcome
a lot of mediocre half court offense in this game.
Looking forward, as we talk about how this series progresses,
do I think this has a good chance to go seven? Yeah,
because Indiana, especially in a non urgent situation for the
(14:18):
Thunder where they're up three to two, Indiana at home
is going to be tough to beat, like in that
sort of situation. So I think the series has a
decent chance to go seven. But whenever it happens, whether
it's Game five and the Pacers play hard and keep
things close, but there's five minutes left and the thunderneed
to tighten the screws, or whether it's in Game six
(14:39):
in the fourth quarter, it inevitably ends up in a
Game seven in the fourth quarter when it really comes
down to this next four to five minute stretch is
going to determine who wins the finals. Oklahoma City is
going to tighten the screws in Indiana is not gonna
be able to score, and that ultimately is what is
what makes them the champion when it's all and done,
(15:00):
and that's ultimately why I think Oklahoma City's gonna win.
It's the guards and their unwillingness to get screened, the
physical switching. As bad as Shay was tonight. I thought
he was very good defensively in the second half. Got
a huge block on a step back three at the
top of the key, had some steals and poke aways,
like an over the top steal on a post entry.
(15:22):
Even Shay gets involved in what they do defensively. Chet
home grin Chet's ability to switch in ball screens and like, yeah,
Halliburn's got him a few times in the series, got
him with a little scoop shot there in the fourth quarter.
But for the most part, Chet's ability to switch on
to the perimeter and have success there makes their defense
kind of impregnable in a lot of ways because their
(15:44):
guards don't get screened, and if they happen to get screened,
they can switch just about anything. And that's the foundational
trait that makes this Thunder team a championship level team.
Before we get to our mailbags, the grifty stuff at
the end, I have to just speak up for just
a second here to be clear, the Thunder won this
(16:04):
game with their defense. The Thunder would have won this game.
I believe even if these of one or two of
these fouls didn't go Oklahoma City's direction. But one of
the things I've talked about is with grifting. It's about
the television product. I have no problem with Shake Gilders
Alexander taking advantage of competitive advantages that are available to him. So,
(16:26):
for instance, if you're standing in the NBA and the
guy's got his hand on his shoulder, like like just
sitting there on Shay's right shoulder, and you just go
up and you like you're standing there in that position,
you should just go up and throw your arms into
his arm and try to shoot. Why because it's gonna
get rewarded with points and so you're just taking advantage
(16:46):
of a competitive advantage that's available to you. But it's
not a good basketball shot. That shouldn't be a shot.
It should just be a foul, Like if a guy's
gonna put his hands on you like that. First of all,
it's kind of ridiculous considering how much handsiness takes place
in every single one of these possessions. Look it out, handsy.
Oklahoma City was on defense in the fourth quarter. But like,
we don't want to see the finals get decided on
(17:09):
a non basketball shot at the elbow. We don't want
to see the finals get decided by Nie Smith sliding
his feet well, in his Super Bowl super physical possession
that literally led to Shaye traveling and him going into
like a step through floater and bailing him out over
some light forearm contact. And by the way, if that's
the one call, no one's gonna care. That sort of
(17:32):
thing is gonna happen here or there throughout the Finals.
But like that, in conjunction with the uh uh, with
that little touch on the step through, I thought Halli
Burton got fouled worse on his drive, the one that
he went into the lane than shaded on his little
hand on the shoulder thing, and then the push offf
there right along the baseline. Like if Shae has iconic
playoff moments where he hits big big shots getting separation
(17:56):
from defenders, it'll go on historic playoff highlight reel that
everyone will remember for all time. But when you see
a guy like, straight up like doing the same grifty
bullshit that he's been doing all season to win a
finals game, it's not a fun television product. It's not
fun to watch, and it just kind of was a buzzkill.
You know, Jackson and I were talking in the middle
(18:18):
of the fourth quarter. This was one of the most
entertaining NBA Finals that we've ever seen. But my biggest
fear in general with Oklahoma City and their success is
just the that grifty bullshit and how it just makes
for an ugly television product. And I wasn't a huge
fan of that. Down the stretch. It just kind of
just kind of felt like, like, guys don't like, you
(18:40):
don't have to give them that call. Their defense is
good enough, they're probably gonna win. Shay is a good player,
he can knock down shots. He might make shots here
there by the way, Like this is the thing with
the pushot. I don't care about the push off. If
you don't call the grifty bullshit, let Shay push off.
Let the defenders use their hands. That's all I've ever
(19:01):
asked for is consistency in that regard. You can't reward
Shay with free throws for non basketball shots or bad
basketball and then also let him get super physical with
defenders and shove them off to get to his spots.
That's straight up not fair, and I just thought that
(19:23):
that was frustrating down the stretch of the game.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
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of programming that goes beyond the game, from action pack
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(19:48):
makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive
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Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm off by soapbox Jackson.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Let's get into some mailbad questions and if there yeah,
if there's like a thunder fan out there that wants
to cape for this shit, I.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Want to hear it. I want to hear it.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, there are some thunderfins in the chat saying, you know,
caping for the for the grift. But we got a
couple of questions about the about the refereeing, so I
don't know if you want to stay on that.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
For a minute's say on the restaurant, Hey, Jason.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I thought the rest tonight called the game much differently
in the differently than the rest of the playoffs, but
at least it felt like it was happening both ways.
What was your take on sort of the zoom out
of the refereeing, like being definitely different than earlier in
the playoffs. And then specifically it felt like Scott Foster
was kind of trying to, you know, put his hands
on the game a little bit.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, Scott Foster is one of the most performative refs
I've ever seen. You can always tell just by like
the little extra flair that he puts on all the
bs that he does. I I was frustrated in general
throughout the flow of that game because it's it goes
both ways. Because on the one hand, it's super physical,
it's game four, the teams are starting to hate each other,
they're starting to get a little chippy, so you got
(20:59):
to kind of keep things on control. But at the
same time, when the stoppages and the reviews just get
so excessive, it really bothers the flow of the game.
My thing is one of the most consistent trends that
has been frustrating for me watching the Thunder in this postseason,
and it's the Chris Finch quote. They foiled the shit
out of you all game, and then the then you
allow the grifty stuff to happen. I mean, I texted
(21:19):
you before that Shay run when the Pacers built a
little bit of a lead and then we had a
lane line bump foul call for JDub on a on
a on a drive and it's just like it just
feels lame. It's like, here comes the Thunder run, We're
headed to the foul line. Like it just it feels
like that is the way with which they generated offense
in a game like where they played bad offense. And
that's the thing is, like, I'm a big believer in
(21:41):
like I want good basketball to be rewarded and I
want bad basketball to be punished. And I thought that
the Thunder played a lot of bad offensive basketball in
this game that got rewarded with points.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
It's just it's tough. It's I understand the Thunder fans
and the Shave fans saying like what do you want
him to do? And it's at a certain point it's
Shay's fault. Like I'm not saying it's he he's the
one who's the problem here, but the ecosystem of the
fouls and what is allowed on the other end, it's
it's challenging a little bit.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I think, do you agree with me that, Like the
problem is you can't like like you gotta have one
or the other, Like you gotta either let Shaye push
off and let these defenders put their hands on him,
or you got to call the offensive foul in addition
to calling the griffy stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I think it's that combined with the the physicality of
the contact that's allowed on the other record before, which
is not to take away from the way the Thunder
play defense. I don't have a problem with the way
the Thunder play defense, just like I don't have a
problem with the way that andrewn Emhard plays defense on
Shady Gillen Tlexander for the most part, right like, and
I don't have a problem with Tyre's Halliburton leaning into
chet when there's and the bonus to get it, you know,
Like that's fine, that's basketball. But there's a certain it
(22:47):
becomes it becomes something else sometimes, I.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Think, and it's just not fun to watch, is the
bottom line. Like we like, we don't want to see
a huge iconic playoff game get decided like that. We
don't like we want to see the action with that
they ran that generated Shaye the wide open three at
the top of the key. That felt like a huge
playoff shot. That felt like just a massive playoff shot
for Shay in a game where he had been pretty rough.
(23:10):
The other stuff just felt like him exploiting loopholes.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
All right, next question, we can move off the ref
so everyone in the chat can take a breathing.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Do you think love to the chat?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Of course?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Do you think Jason that the.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Pacers now they have to win one game on the
road if they want to win the NBA Finals, have
a better chance in Game five or in game seven?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Game five? For sure?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I think there's always a natural kind of ebb and
flow back and forth as the series kind of flow.
I mean, we even saw Denver take a commanding nine
point lead in the early fourth quarter of Game five.
It just to me it just doesn't matter because the
Thunder could be down by eleven with nine and a
half minutes left of Game five, and I would just
(23:57):
feel like they could tighten the screws and then Indiana
would suddenly go life like this is legitimately crazy. It's
a consistent trend, like they just completely shut your water off.
They shut your water off, and there's nothing you can do.
And again, I do believe their best chance to win
is gonna be Game five. Like, if the Pacers are
gonna win the series, they win the next two games.
I just don't think. I think, when when all the
(24:20):
stuff is on the line, I don't think anybody can
score on this this Oklahoma City team the way they
need to. I think Indiana's one chance as Oklahoma City
comes out really flat in Game five and Indiana brings
a ton of energy and all of a sudden it
turns into a fourth quarter close game. But like somehow
Oklahoma City goes colder than Indiana does. That would be
their one chance.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, the the the Dork Caruso combination, plus the switch
ability and length of chat on the back end, like
they have so many unbelievable athletes, unbelievable defenders, just a
million ways to get stops in a million ways to
create hapoic. It's it's really when they decide we're ratching
it up right now, it is. It is startling to watch.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
They're the best defense that I've watched in my time
covering the league. I just I can't remember a time
where I saw a team consistently strangle.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
The life out of like truly elite offenses.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
There have been a lot of really great defenses that
have come close, you know, like I think the twenty
nineteen Raptors was a very good defense. I think the
twenty twenty Lakers was a very good defense. Even the
Warriors in twenty twenty two very good defense. But I
don't think any of those defenses come close to just
the overwhelming, like just physical, oppressive, ball pressure and unscreenable
(25:35):
but still switchable. It's just they're frightening. I tweeted out
right at the end of the third quarter, I was like,
this is where Oklahoma City's gonna throw their best defensive
punch and we're gonna find out if Indiana can score.
And they couldn't score. Ultimately that we all knew it
was coming.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Everyone knew.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's like staring everybody right in the face. But it's
just as an unconquerable demon.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And credit to Shay. You said it earlier that he
was bad most of the game offensively, but he was
very good defensively. In the fourth quarter, he hit the
block on Howie. I think he had two different poke
like steals when they were trying to do a post entry.
He was very active, and I think that is sort
of what one of the things amongst the many things
with their defense that contributes to them being an all
(26:18):
time defense, is they their worst guy that you're picking
on is competent at worst.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, No, I totally agree. It's those last possessions in
the game. It's like, those are makeable shots, Like the
Tyree step back against Chedd. He got decent separation, but
that's a really long defender. He shooting over the nemhard
step back that he missed off the back round, like
that was a really good contest, even though it was
a decent look. Like, Yeah, I think the ones that
(26:44):
you'll think back to if you're a pacer fan are
the wide open looks that Nie Smith and Turner missed.
There were there were a solid half dozen great three
point looks that Nie Smith and Turner got in this game,
and they just couldn't make them. Do you think Carlisle
should have gone with like maybe Ben mather I mean,
Mathern came in at the very end, but like mather
(27:05):
In and and Top and more down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Of this game.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's it's a good question. It's one of our questions.
Why is that we got in the chat? Why does
Myles Turner get so many minutes when he has been
pretty bad for most of the series and Topping has
been so good. And it's it's hard because one of
the things that they were getting killed on was the glass,
and you know in theory Turners a better better player
there on the glass and top of it, and Nie
Smith had like nine rebounds, So it's it's tough to
(27:31):
to to say who they should go with, but it
does feel like the Top and Siakam front court minutes
are the best ones for them. And I think Mathrin
at least in at least in Game three, it felt
like he was doing a better job staying attached to
some of these guards Jane Williams and SGA specifically than
Nie Smith. So I think if you're if you're a
(27:52):
Pacers fan, if your carlis and you're looking for what
do we have a desperation punch? Like, hopefully we're just
in the game in general we don't have to do that,
but if we need to for down seven with four minutes,
what is our big swing? I think it's probably the
Mathrin and Top and over Nie Smith and Turner.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I mean Nie Smith like was fuck, he was hacking.
He was hacking like on a bunch of like he
hacked Chet on a play where and again it's all
like it's good defense in principle until the very end,
but it's like, especially with the way that game was
getting officiated for Shay and and like you you can't
be you can't be as handsy as he was, and
it just it was frustrating. It felt felt very much
(28:29):
like a missed opportunity for Indiana. But like the only
reason why I like, even with the stuff with uh, like,
let's say a couple more of those turner threes go
down or something like that, and Indiana's up by like,
you know, twelve going into the fourth quarter instead of
seven or whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I still I still just feel like push comes to shove.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
This Oklahoma City team can tighten the screws and no
one can score on him. And that really is That's
the thing that I'm gonna remember the most about this team.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah. One one, we had a couple more questions, one
from me and then one from a super tat question
to end with, I was thinking about the Niemith problem
and a lot of the switches that they got for
Shay at the end of the game were guard guard
screens where they were like, well, we can switch these.
We don't need to chase over with that mark. We
can switch these. How if they don't want to switch.
(29:13):
If we're saying the Niemith is gonna get cooked by
Shay or at least not every time, but you know
the majority of the time, what's the move there? Do
you just chase over the top and hedge and hope
that Jalen Williams isn't good enough on the back end
to beat you?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Like, what's this?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
What do you do if you're the pacers that worked
really well down the stretch to get switches?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, all you can do is blitzer hedge. Those are
really your only two options. And I mean there are
variations of hedges you can like you can do. You
can do like a really soft like catch hedge where
you're primarily just functioning to take away a drive if
he turns the corner. But even then, like if you
linger at all on the ball and j Deb slips out.
We talk about baked in driving lanes a lot on
this show. Basically to make a long story short, if
(29:51):
you slip out of a screen or even if you're
just in in spot up a spot up situation on
the opposite wing. So like balls on the right wing,
you're standing on the left wing, or you're slipping out
of a guard guard screen to the left wing, if
that defender is in nail help, or if he's lingering
in a hedge or doing anything along those lines, all
you have to do is throw a swing pass and
(30:11):
then rip to the left and then and then you're
in good shape. I think, honestly, like if there was
a if there was a mistake made down the stretch
from Indiana in terms of their defensive execution, it's the
lack of double teams. Like they had a lot of
success double teaming Shay throughout the game. I mean it's
zero sists and then down the stretch they let him
play one on one and they did dig down to
(30:33):
the nail, but it's like you end up giving up
closeouts anyway. Like it's just I would have liked to
have seen a little bit more aggression thrown directly at Shay,
but none if it matters if Indiana can't score on
the other end, And that's what I keep coming back to.
Last question.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
This one was a super Chat question from jam shout
out to you JM. Every game this series. It feels
very similar to the OKAC Denver series. Okay, see blows
a fourth quarter leading Game one, they won Game two
by a lot, it was a close Game three, and
then actually make the comeback to win its Game four.
What is your take on that doesn't feel similar to you?
And then does that mean that we're going to get seven.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
In this series?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So it's it's I don't think it feels similar in
terms of like the basketball because the basketball dynamic in
the two series is so different. You know, obviously, Jokic
was just straight up and dominable at times. Denver their
defense was much more of like a pack to paint.
We're mixing, mixing in a lot of zone, more passive,
more contain that kind of thing. Indiana's applying a ton
(31:29):
of ball pressures. There's a lot of like differences in
the schematics. The reason why it feels like the Denver
series is that this is actually a very common series
progression that we see in the history of the NBA,
which is you have a massive favorite, or not even
a massive favorite, just a favorite. Because I think we
can all agree that Oklahoma City probably shouldn't have been
favored by as much as they were now, like and
(31:51):
again my big misjudgment there was just Oklahoma City's lack
of ball handling and not properly accounting for that with
Indiana's ball pressure. But you have this per that takes
place where the underdog steals a game on the road,
whether it's game one or game two, it really don't matter.
And then they come home and they're super excited, and
game three has this like buzzsaw feel. And then you
(32:12):
also have to keep in mind like even for the
road team, it's still not really that desperate. It's just
a one to one series, you know, and so they
end up getting Game three. But game four always feels
like the pivot point. The underdog always knows like, if
we do not win this game, we're probably not winning
this series, and so it brings a level of urgency
in Game four kind of takes the feel of a
(32:33):
Game seven in terms of like both teams know they
desperately need that one, and the better team usually wins
that type of game, like especially in the pros, like
in college, there's a little bit more variance, and that's
why the NCAA Tournament is the way that it is,
but in the pros there's a little less variance, and
so it kind of feels like the better team tends
to win that Game four And you know, from here
it just comes down to whether or not Indiana has
(32:54):
the pride to win one more of these games, especially
Game six at home, and we've seen teams that don't.
You know, we've seen teams that come home in game
six and just get rolled. I don't think the Pacers
will get rolled. I think that'll be a good competitive game.
But like it just to me, Oklahoma City was the
better team and they got punched in the mouth by Indiana.
And it's definitely been more precarious than it looked on
the surface because of the reasons we've discussed. But ultimately,
(33:14):
Oklahoma City is the better team, and when the shit
hits the fan and they need to win a game,
they're gonna be able to win a game against this team.
All right, guys, that's all we have for YouTube tonight.
As always, we appreciate you guys for supporting us and
supporting the show. Head over to playback dot tv slash
Hoops tonight. We're gonna be hanging out there taking callers
and watching some film.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
We'll see you guys over there in a few minutes.
What's up guys.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
As always, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute
to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
The volume
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