June 13, 2024 • 41 mins
Rachel Nichols joins the The Herd to talk about the NBA Finals, the Celtics dominance, Luka Doncic, and Caitlin Clark being left off the USA Women's Team
Colin talks about the Lakers having a plethora of information leaks as news comes out that they are set to interview JJ Redick
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right at tour two and a Thursday, Live in
Los Angeles, It's The Herd. Dan Hurley just stopped my
live from his office at Yukon.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We love that.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Rachel Nichols around the corner. Joel Klatt too. The soccer
guys are in the building at Fox today. A lot
of British accents, a lot of sophistication, a lot of
Europeans in the building today. My late mother was British.
A connection. I can feel it, a vibe as I
walk by. I love what soccer guys are in the building.
Little alpha, little chip on their shoulder, little European vibe
(00:57):
in the building today. All the executive this big deal
in the building sided. Jordan Schultz is joining us. So
Celtics are running over Dallas. They kind of melted down.
It's funny watching the Celtics melt down. And this is
just the way it is to be in the NBA.
You have to be so good. You have to be
so great to be in the NBA, meaning at some
point high school, au college, you were a dominant scorer.
(01:20):
And so whenever an NBA team gets out of rhythm offensively,
it's usually because they're best players. Go io ball, and
the Celtics last night get into about a seven minute
area where they just even the Celtics, who were very
collaborative and very smart, very veteran, got into this io
ball thing, and they melted. And so it can happen
to the best of teams. But Jalen Brown is gonna win.
(01:43):
I would imagine MVP of this series. He won MVP
of the Eastern Conference Finals. So Jason Tatum has shot
under fifty percent in six of his last seven playoff games.
Jalen Brown has shot over fifty percent in seven straight
playoff games. And we don't consider him to be the fluid,
esthetically pleasing offensive player. That's Tatum. So Tatum is viewed
(02:05):
as a superior talent. Jalen Brown reminds me of d Wade,
And I'll tell you why. Neither went to a massive
basketball power. Cal and Marquette both lean into power and
physicality over grace. Both are always the best athlete in
the floor. They're strong, physical players. Jalen Brown's dad was
(02:25):
a heavyweight boxer. You don't have to be talked into that.
That kind of sounds right. And we are so used
to in professional basketball having the best players make it
look so easy. A Michael and a Kobe and a
Magic It's just Steph Curry. It's easy, it's graceful. And
with Jalen Brown and d Wade, you see the grit,
(02:48):
you see the effort. It's not always pretty. But neither
d Wade or Jalen Brown has ever let their deficiencies
define them. It's great messaging is that d Wade was
never even in the three ball era. He couldn't shoot threes.
His career is twenty nine percent. Didn't define him, he
didn't take him. Jalen Brown when he first got into
(03:09):
the league wasn't a very good ball handler, and he
still doesn't have like a go to offensive shot. But
when Shaq and Lebron played with d Wade, they were
often the better talent. But d Wade was always the
soul of the heat, his toughness, his camaraderie, his collaboration,
(03:30):
his resilience, his physicality d Wade, even with Lebron and Shack,
there always the soul. And I would argue Jalen Brown
isn't the best Celtics, He's the soul of the Celtics.
When you think of even the bird Celtics, scrappy on
the floor, tough, get in fights, tackle if they had to.
(03:51):
That's what That's what Boston basketball is. When the Lakers
are great, they got a little sex appeal, it's showtime.
When the Celtics are great, punch your right in the forehead.
And that's kind of like Pistons basketball. That's when the
Steelers were great Historically. It wasn't because they were pretty.
When Belichick's Patriots were great. The only time they were
pretty Randy Moss, they didn't win super Bowls. And I
(04:14):
think Boston is defined by resourceful, tough, resilient, smart, collaborative.
And to me, I watched Jalen Brown and I feel
like I'm watching d Wade. They play above their weight.
I mean, the biggest dunk in the game last night
wasn't by the Biggs, it was by Jalen Brown. That
would often be d Wade. Well. Once a game, d
(04:35):
Wade six to four and a half would go to
the rim and jam over somebody six seven and a half.
The place erupts, and it defines the effort for the heat.
So I love watching him play. As coach talked about
him after.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
How can I explain Jalen The guy just has a
growth mindset. He just wants to get better. He yearns
to get better. He's not afraid to face his weaknesses,
you know, on the court. And so when you have
that type of mindset, you're just going to be able
to take on every situation that the game brings you.
So he puts himself in every single situation that he
(05:08):
sees in a game. He uses six seven, eight coaches
a day. In every situation on both ends of the floor,
he puts himself in there. And that's how you have
to grow, is to become vulnerable on the things that
you know make you uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And he does it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I said, when I saw him at cal play, I
thought he looked like a football player. He was really
rough around the edges, but a wildly talented athlete. Every
year you can see the time he puts in. It's
not always graceful, it's not as aesthetically pleasing as Tatum,
but it is the soul of the Celtics and Rachel Nichols,
who's been covering the NBA since nineteen ninety three. We
(05:42):
got all sorts of stuff going on in the NBA.
I'll pivot off the Celtics after this question, though, but
there is always that question, and we thought about it
last year with Denver. Is this just a one off?
Or can we have a dynasty? And in the NBA,
we tend to look get eras and decades. If I
(06:02):
say seventies NBA, there was no great team. If I
say if I say eighties, Magic Bird, nineties, MJ two thousands,
it's Shaq Kobe. Are these Celtics with Porzingis's injury history,
are they going to be an ERA team or just
like KG Pierce Allen, a great team for the moment?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
I think an ERA team.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
The definition may change, right, I just think, and we've
talked about this before, the talent level in the NBA
is so much higher than it has ever been because
you have now the world's most talented athletes coming to
the NBA, where even ten years ago, you weren't having
this much of an influx of international players and they
hadn't reached their height of their abilities. The last five
(06:45):
MVPs have gone to international players. So because there are
more talented guys across the league, it means more teams
are better, right, More teams have a chance of having
a really a one talent on their team. Because of that,
I don't see someone winning six tight like Michael Again,
I don't even know if someone can do what the
Warriors did even semi recently, right, but I mean semi recently.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
They won their first title nine years ago.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
Time passes, and I just feel like because of the
depth of the NBA, the Celtics maybe being an eerospecific
defining team is winning two or you know, we don't
know yet.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I mean, there's never been an NFL team that's won
three straight. And we've had on the Steelers in the seventies,
you couldn't score on. You had Belichick and Brady the
best coach quarterback. So nobody's won three straight. And I
will say this, I said it earlier. A part of
the Celtic greatness is really taking advantage of something that
you may not be able to take advantage of They
got Porzingis, Derek White and Drew Holliday off tanking teams
(07:46):
San Antonio, Portland and Washington were I mean literally like tanking,
and they went take, take, take. The league doesn't want
what they are, which is like eight deep. Horfords made
multiple All Stars. So to your point, I think it'll
look different because Derek White, somebody's gonna grab him and
pay him a lot of money. But I do think
(08:07):
dynasty in this era could be defined with back to backs.
Speaker 6 (08:10):
Yes, absolutely, And look, they're they're clearly so talented. It's
why I pick them going into the series. They have
six of the eight best players on the floor, and
they have learned from their mistakes. I thought the quote
you just played from Joe Mizulla was perfect. He encapsulated
it perfectly. He was talking about Jalen Brown specifically, but
Jalen has been sort of emblematic of how this team
(08:30):
has grown overall because they faced what they did wrong,
they acknowledged it, they worked on it, and they got better.
And that's all we ask of these athletes, right, I mean,
I know we're going to talk about Luca and the
mistakes he made last night. The real test to me
isn't what Luca did in Game three of the twenty
twenty four Finals. It's does he learn from it and
get better? And that is how I will judge him.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, tragic Johnson after about eighty four finals exactly. Yet
Lebron James, when he had so few layers to his game, he.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Had eight points in an NBA Finals game. Yeah, into that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Wall out of basketball and so I find. What I
find is though the smart players MJ and Lebron looked
themselves in the mirror and go Okay. MJ said, I
gotta trust teammates. Yeah, Lebron said, I gotta add some layers,
a low post game, better at threes. So for Luca,
what's interesting, though his offensive game doesn't need anything, a
lot of it is shoulders up where he unravels. He's
(09:29):
been told since he was fourteen, he's a prodigy. You
know the d wades in Jalen Brown's who had to work,
and you can see the work is different than at thirteen.
People are like, he's the best rising star in the
history of European basketball. Yes, I worry about Luca because
I don't worry about physical divisions. He's although he's not
a good defensive player, but can he look himself in
(09:51):
the mirror and say, I've gotta trust teammates. I've I've
got to engage every time down the floor in the finals,
I don't have to be Jalen Brown. I'm the defender.
That's what I worry about.
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Yeah, that's the big question, right, And we all have
seen this with pro athletes. You've been told you're great
since you were eleven, twelve years old. You've been the
best player on your team for most of your entire life, and.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
You've been getting away with it.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
That's really the key is that Luca has been getting
away with talking to the refs, you know, not necessarily
getting back on defense, you know, not necessarily trusting his
teammates in the big moments. He's been getting away with
it because his team still generally win, you know, with
some you.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Know, and he hasn't faced a great team.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
And he's still even when his team loses.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
They didn't make the playoffs last year. It's not his fault.
The organization decided to tank. They didn't have the talent
around him. No one was blaming him. So this is
the first time I think he is facing a situation
that is this high profile where he's not getting away
with some of the deficiencies in his basketball behavior, and
I imagine it's a wake up call. And if it's not,
(10:58):
then he has a really big problem because there's a
couple easy areas for him to just elevate his already
incredibly elite game. Obviously, they're talking to officials because that's
just I mean, it's basic.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
One on.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
It's going to reverse calls one hundred percent, and all
it does is it makes it when he does have
a call that doesn't quite go the right way against him,
they don't even listen to him.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
Because he's the boy who cried wolf right. So and
then that in turn, hand in hand, get back on defense,
play the kind of defense that we saw him play.
He can play very good defense. We saw it just
the last couple of months. So get back and do that.
And then frankly, he's got to get in the kind
of shape where he can be in the best shape
of his life at the end of a very long season.
(11:42):
We saw Nikola Jokic do that, and that was a
game changer for him. Nikola Jokic as we all remember,
used to be the pudgy guy. Yeah, kind of laboring
up and down, the poor defender and not kind of
a poor defender. And I remember sitting down with Nikola
in the bubble, which was the first time he showed
up in twenty twenty is sort of looking like a
different person, and he was telling me all the changes
(12:04):
he made to his diet. We've had Joel Embiid make
a bunch of changes in the way he is and
his physical durability and all of that. Obviously the knees,
the ankles, that's different. But I'm talking about being in shape.
Luca has to decide can he be in that kind
of shape this deep into the season because Kyrie did it.
Kyrie looks like he might be in the best playing
shape of his life. And he's had issues in this finals,
(12:27):
but it hasn't been because he's been tired. Luca is
clearly tired. And when we're all tired, we are more
short tempered. No question, we don't play our best, we
don't do our.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Best, we don't commit to everything.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
We don't commit to everything.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
I mean that to me is the biggest thing I
see of what's wrong here and that is the biggest
thing I think he needs to change and everything else
will follows.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Suit. Is it fair to me to say this about
the Likers that I could rename them the Los Angeles Leakers?
Everything gets out everything. Yes, if I didn't know about
and Hurley and Reddick, it wouldn't look like such a circus. Yes,
I have never It's like a bad white house, Like
(13:08):
whether you liked Obama or not, nothing leaked. Everybody on
the same page, yep, okay, then the guy after him
everything leaked.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Like it just looks like it's a circus. Everything leaks,
And so is it fair to say at times it
looks chaotic from the outside, Oh.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
It absolutely does.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
And to me it goes back to the firing of
Darvin Ham. I'm not caping for Darvin Ham. People can
make their evaluations on whether he was a good or
bad coach or good enough coach for this team, but
you cannot make a decision to fire him one.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Year out for reaching a Western Conference.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
Finals without a plan of someone better that you are
going to find, Because maybe he wasn't the gold standard
for the Lakers, but he was a standard of where
they were this past year or two and they had
to know when they fire at him.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
The only reason to.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
Do that wasn't to get another guy who was here
or here. It's to get someone better and to have
at least an idea in your head who that would be.
Have those relationships so that you already know is this
guy really interested in us or not. We saw it
in Phoenix. I don't think that Frank Vogel should have
been fired. I think he was a scapegoat again for
the second time in his career. But at least the
Sons knew exactly who they wanted After Frank, they went
(14:24):
after him, and that contract with Mike Budenholzer was done
within I think forty eight hours, and they got their guy.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
I just feel like the.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Lakers did one thing without a plan for the other thing,
and that is what we are seeing right now.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I have a kind of a WNBA take, and it's
kind of I do not believe they're picking on Caitlin Clark.
I think if you watch the WNBA, I said this earlier,
it is not as dynamic a league, twitchiness wise, nor
is it as vertical as the NBA. So it tends
to be a horizontal league that is very physical yeah.
So if you've watched it for lee years, it's physical. Absolutely,
(14:58):
in the NBA, you can't stand of anybody. People are
just too fast or they jump over you. Yeah, that's
not the WNBA. So it is a physical league. It's
always been chippy. So I don't think anybody's picking on Caitlin.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I do think there's some some jealousy stuff. I mean,
it's by the way, that's life, welcome to Welcome to
the world. Yeah, but would I would say this to
defend the WNBA. I don't like the Olympic decision, but
that wasn't their call. But I'd say this. It does
remind me is that over the course of owning a business,
(15:32):
you can run a very fine business and then all
of a sudden in your business, something happens. There's a
culture change, there's an employee that arrives, there's a catalyst,
and your business explodes and you're just not quite ready
for it. You're not ready for the criticism, you're not
ready for the attention. And I feel like the WNBA
a year ago could have said, Caitlyn's coming in, let's
(15:52):
give her an easier schedule, let's talk about this Olympic
stuff if it's big and it just got so big
so fast. So discuss debated that women's basketball is a
little bit like whoahoa, whoa whoa, whoa wha. They're not
quite ready to be the lead story on debate shows.
It's not a criticism. I think this happens with tech companies,
(16:14):
Main Street, Wall Street. To get this tsunami of coverage
and heat. You've been ignored for twenty seven years. Is
that a fair place to land?
Speaker 6 (16:25):
I personally feel it's more about the type of criticism
that the league is getting than the criticism itself. These players,
the executives, they have tough. They have been fighting their
way through not only just to be elite basketball players,
but in a world that wasn't willing to hand them
everything the way a lot of their male counterparts have. Right, So,
I don't think they're crying on the floor because people
(16:46):
have been mean about them. I think it's the tenor
and the tone. I think that there are some people,
not everyone, but there are some people in the media.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Who have loud voices.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
The way they've approached talking about the NBA has been
quite frankly, very sexist, and I think that after.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Fighting all those fights and battles.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
I think there is a bit of pushing back and
also just a bit of frustration. Really, again, we have
to listen to this again. We have to listen to
people treating us so differently from male athletes. Again, why
can't we just be basketball players? I think that is
some of the frustration that you're sensing for them. I
do want to ask you about the Olympic decision, though,
because I think it made total sense. I'll make my
(17:23):
case to you and you can tell you can pick it.
Apart is that I think the US women's team is
one of the hardest teams to make in all of sports.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
It is harder to make Team.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
USA on the women's side than it is on the
men's side because if you look at the ten best
male players in the world, half of them don't even
qualify for Team USA. They're playing for their own countries, right,
So that allows more spots for guys who are in
the ten through twenty spot or twenty through thirty spot
to make it onto the team because a big chunk
of the people they'd be competing with are playing for
(17:54):
other countries. The vast majority of female basketball players who
are at that elite, elite, best in the world, world
level are Americans, so you're not getting those four or
five open spots when you pick out the top ten,
you're not getting that. And also it's a program that
really puts an emphasis on have you been there together,
have you been in these training camps? And they have
(18:15):
to do that because unlike the NBA where it comes
in the middle of a four month break between seasons,
this is in the middle of the WNBA season. So
Team USA, the women's team, will get seven practices before
they go play in Olympic competition.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Seven that's all they get to play together. So part of.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
The thought when putting together the team, and we've watched
sports for so long, it is essential to have chemistry,
to know what the other person's going to do out
on the core. We're seeing it right now with the Celtics.
That experience makes them a better team. And that is
why all of those factors contributed to Caitlin Clark not
getting on the team.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I absolutely believe she will be.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
On the next team if things continue as they are,
and many many more to come.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, I think there's more gray than people would acknowledge.
I think that's the great basketball argument say this that
women's basketball, and for the record, Bryce Harper went to
the same thing in baseball. Remember the jealousy and pigments
does not make this a women are petty. Bryce Harper
got into fights in the dugout with people. Baseball men
(19:16):
tradition can be petty. It could be church baseball. What
so that it's sexist to say women are petty. No,
there's people people are petty. Okay, So I would argue
this that holistically, the decision to put Caitlin clark on
is not a basketball decision. She's good enough to be
(19:36):
the last player because she statistically is Diana Frosty right now,
right right? Is that in a business that has been
had second class travel, second class attention, has struggled financially,
really needed the NBA to make it all decisions until
it is a profit center. Need to also consider be
(19:59):
on basketb all the business of it, and the WNBA
and the Olympic women's basketball team are kind of working
together to enhance.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Yeah, in an overall the overall sense.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
And I think when you complain for years about how
you're treated, the catalyst arrives Connor McGregor, Tiger and instantly
gets you on charter flights and the attention and by
the way, a better TV contract very soon. You almost
solid you kind of almost spot. Now that is subjective.
(20:32):
That is political Historically at the end of benches, certainly
for men Olympic teams, it gets very political. Yes, women
not so much because, like you said, where it lands.
So your argument is a basketball argument and it's the
right basketball argument. It doesn't make it the wrong business argument.
But I do think there's a business element. I said yesterday,
(20:54):
if I got you private flight for two years with
your family, you'd owe me an invitation to some party,
you know me something right like that. I feel like
Caitlin's like, I got you guys, charter flights and all
the attention, Can you squeeze me into the back end
of the team.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
But if your team USA, which is not the WNBA
ru right and has had a lot of success over
the years, so they're not at the level right, they're
not at the level where, oh my god, people are just.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Discovering it look at themselves needing it.
Speaker 6 (21:22):
They don't look at themselves as needing the degree to
what the w needs right, and they haven't gotten those benefits,
those benefits have gone to the WNBA, a different set
of coffers, a different business model, a different number of
people getting dollars in their pocket. They're worried about what
they can do, and if they don't get a gold
medal over in Paris, the repercussions are going to be huge.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
People will lose their jobs.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
So I think the idea is make it the best
basketball team it can be. And by the way, you
talk about political decisions at the end of the bench,
what happens if she does come in as the number
twelve player and gets playing time accordingly, which means not
very much at all. What do you think every question
is going to be at the beginning of.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Every press conference.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
They're responsible on TMOSA for the Olympic experience of every
athlete on that team. They're responsible for what the country
is talking about in terms of what that sets them
up for the money they try to raise and get
people to donate to our Olympic effort. They don't want
to create. If you're just going to now step away
from basketball and make a business decision on politics for
them separate from the w it's not a great business
(22:26):
decision in my opinion, because it sets you up for
people not to like you. Where right now there's controversy,
people are talking about it, But once those Olympics start,
these women are such talented players, they're great personalities, so
many of them are just jump off the page likable,
Asia Wilson.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
There's the quality of basketball so much better than twenty.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
Years ago, one hundred percent. And so I think people
will get behind this women's team. I don't think people
will be talking about Caitlin Clark every day at that point.
And you know, assuming that they go ahead and complete
the mission and win a gold medal, it will be
joy there as opposed to well what about this?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know, it's funny. I've thought about this before. Is
one of the people I was always jealous. I'm not
really a jealous person, but one of the people that
does what I always thought I wanted to do was
Bill Maher, who does like thirty one hour shows a year,
so he gets to go on and take two topics
and think all week about that. And I've always thought,
oh god, that's so perfect. I'm on a treadmill and
(23:22):
this is not an excuse. So is stephen A, so
is Skip, so are all the fine people at ESPN
and Fox, who do daily treadmill ships. The downside to
that is you're asked to have an immediate three hour
and opinion the minute something happens. And a prime example
with this is my initial take and I'm not sure
if I said it on the air or thought was God,
the women are being petty, And then over the course
(23:44):
of four or five days, I thought about it and
I thought, oh no, wait, Bryce Harper, it was embarrassing,
like baseball players were embarrassing towards Bryce Harper.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Think about what the distance did to Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I mean, just petty, and it's like guys, women don't
own petty. Like one of the pettiest industries is stand
up comedy dominated by men, like the entertainment business acting
stand up. A lot of petty businesses are male dominated.
But if I did a once a week show, you
(24:18):
could flush that out. And I'm not blaming anybody at
any network. I feel like I am to some degree
like every other guy at every network that does. Could
be Dan Patrick, it could be Rich Eyes, and it
could be stephen A. We're on this three hour treadmill,
and I think the Caitlin story is more nuanced than
a three hour debate show Who's better Jalen Brown or
(24:40):
Tatum that you can you can chew that up and
we can chop it up together all day and nobody
gets hurt and it doesn't feel like it's an avalanche
raining down in a young lady or a league. So
I think in my takeaway in the Caitlin Clark story
is it needs more nuance. And I don't know if
I was ready for it the first day I was
on the air.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
Actually, kind of like what you're describing here, It's kind
of what Joe Mizula was just talking about with Jalen Brown.
It's fine if you come out out of the box perfect, Okay,
I mean it wows us, but that doesn't Actually that's
not the way humans work. He talked about a growth
mindset there. He talked about addressing weaknesses things like that.
I think that people who are willing in public on TV,
(25:20):
in front of millions and millions of people Colin Cowherd
to actually evolve and not stick to the first opinion
that comes out of their mouth.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
That makes you so much better at your job and
as part of.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
The reason everybody wants to listen to you as opposed
to someone who is frankly a blowhard and just comes
out and says the first thing that comes to mind,
or just something where they haven't had a chance to
react because there's only so many hours in the day
and they're on in the morning, and then it sort
of sticks to it and.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
Digs in because they have to. That's why people come
to the show, because you are allowing for nuance.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I have to do a segment every week called right
and Wrong. There you go to acknowledge I am regularly wrong.
But I do think certain things need nuance, and we're
not built for it. Right. It'd be like an accountant
and you have to do taxes every day instead of April. Yes, right,
Like I'm jealous of the people in our business that
(26:11):
can write a book, Jeff Benedict or Anin O'Connor, or
you get to come on and you're on the treadmill too.
More and more. You're talented, but it is some topics
deserve nuanced, and we're not very nuanced. I am not
always very nuanced. I had to move off that Sam
Darnold's going to be a star as painful as.
Speaker 8 (26:29):
It was, Right, Joe, great scene, excellent one more heard.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen
live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, driving to work today in Los Angeles, there was
almost no traffic. It was so nice. I don't know why.
It was just hope you you know, I'm taking tomorrow off.
J Mack willbe in and Jordan Schultz is with us today. Patriots,
by the way, retired. I thought it was so weird.
The Patriots retired Brady's uniform last night, on a night
the Celtics were playing in the NBA Finals. Couldn't you
(27:04):
looked at the calendar? I know, I thought that was
so odd. Good for tom but it was. It was
I would have chosen the day before or tonight. It
almost everybody in that area is a Celtic fan. Jordan
with the.
Speaker 7 (27:15):
News, No, no turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
This is the Herd line.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
News, all right.
Speaker 9 (27:21):
Colin Travis Kelsey has eleven seasons and three Super Bowl
rings under his belt and what will be a suing
Hall of Fame career. Speaking to the media yesterday, Kelsey
addressed how much time he has left in the NFL.
Speaker 7 (27:35):
That can't put a timeframe on it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Man.
Speaker 7 (27:37):
I love coming to work every single day, obviously, I know.
Speaker 10 (27:43):
I know that there's opportunities outside of football for me,
and and I think you you got to keep in
perspective that that.
Speaker 7 (27:52):
You know, I'm still a little kid when I come
into this building.
Speaker 10 (27:54):
Man, I know I'm thirty four years old, about to
be thirty five, but I have a love to do
this right here in the middle of.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
The heat in June.
Speaker 10 (28:03):
You know, I love coming to work every single day
and doing this, So I'm going to do it till
the wheals fall off, and hopefully that doesn't happen anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Colin I really like him. I think he's got great perspective.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
He's awesome man.
Speaker 9 (28:16):
And what the Chiefs have done is awesome too, because
the culture they have built predicated around winning and Patrick
Mahomes and Travis Kelcey and Andy Reid is so special.
You mentioned earlier just a few minutes ago that no
team has gone back to back to back. The Chiefs
now have an opportunity to do it with coach Reid.
And I think the unsung hero as well is c Spagnolo,
(28:39):
who beat the Patriots twice was a huge factor in
the Giants winning two Super Bowls with Eli and now
has done an unbelievable job in Kansas City with a
defense that really was an afterthought when you talk about Mahomes,
but now has become a central component of the organization.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
So Brett Veetz from the GM.
Speaker 9 (28:58):
All the way to the quarterback to this Hall of Fame,
Travis Kelcey Hall of Famer, I'm so impressed with what
Kansas City has done and the league built and predicated
on parody.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's almost unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, the Patriots and the Chiefs our two dynasties for
twenty years, and the one thing they have in common
stable ownership at their best, excellent front offices, legendary coach,
star quarterback. As the Patriots aged and Belichick blew out
a lot of the personnel people or took over the
(29:29):
draft right, it weakened. They did not have enough good
players at the end. And so one of the problems
with male dominated sports is egos and alpha. Kansas City,
more than New England, doesn't seem to have a problem.
Andy Reid does not want to control the draft. Belichick
wanted more, say Mahomes like Brady Will do a team
(29:52):
friendly deal, try to renegotiate his contract constantly. So I
always thought the reason the Seahawks didn't become a dynasty
because they had the players, is Pete wanted more control
than personnel than Sewn Snyder would give up. Pete had
an issue with Russell Wilson is that the dynamic, the
power dynamic, was never perfect. New England's was perfect until
(30:15):
about the last five to six years when Bill took
too much control of personnel. Kansas City is perfectly built.
I was literally at a resort not long ago and
sat next to the president of the Chiefs, and he
talked about that, about how the ownership lets the football
guys do football, the football guys let Andy do the coaching.
(30:37):
It's a that's so much more important. I mean, the
reason the Niners with Harball could have been a dynasty
Trent Ball, Key and Harbaugh, there were fissures in the relationships.
So what the Chiefs do better than anything is everybody
stays in their lane and is elite in their specific job.
Speaker 9 (30:57):
Absolutely, we talk about on the field chemistry, it's organizational chemistry.
The Chiefs have struck that perfect balance, and that's why
they're in a position to win three in a row.
We've seen a lot of wide receivers calling land huge
contracts this offseason, and we've seen some stars holding out
for deals of their own. Amari Cooper is the latest
holdout in Cleveland. But Deshaun Watson is backing his decision.
Speaker 11 (31:19):
He's the best in the game, and I believe that.
You know, he showed it each and every year. He
shows it the last two years with different quarterbacks. So
I think you got to put him up today if
not the best. Malmi is our brothers, our teammate. We
support him, and you know, the decisions that he got
to make for himself is his own, you know, Amari
so but everyone in his locker room respect him and
(31:41):
know exactly what he's about, and whenever he gets back,
he's gonna be ready to go.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, you don't get any drama and ego at a
position that has a lot of both, and so he
never quite gets the respect he deserves. He doesn't call
attention to himself, but he's really productive, great route runner,
rock solid person. I think he'll I think he's one
(32:05):
of those athletes that when it's all said and done,
you'll look at his stats I always said this about
Alex English of the Denver No.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Wow good, Yeah, yeah, you're like, really.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Alex English led the eighties in the NBA in scoring, Yeah,
no flash, no drama, didn't call attention to themselves. Amari's
gonna retire someday and you're gonna look at those numbers
and go, those are Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I don't like Mike Evans.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
It's similar, but at least Evans played with Brady for
a couple of years, so we were microscoped on his catches. Yeah,
Amari's a great player.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
He's a great player. He's twenty nine years old.
Speaker 9 (32:37):
He's coming off his best season as a pro, almost
thirteen hundred yards.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
He is productive.
Speaker 9 (32:42):
And I actually spoke with someone in that organization after
Amari didn't show up, and basically that the comment I
got was, Amari Cooper is what we want the Cleveland
Browns to be about. He's professional, he's consistent, and he's
dominant when when when he's on the field. So I
think he will ultimately get paid. The number really has
to be. I think over twenty five it makes sense
(33:03):
to me. And when you talk about him getting twenty
next year, he is significantly underpaid going into twenty twenty four. Yep,
all right, Colin, this is a This is a really
good one for me. The Ravens made a big move
this offseason, landing Derrick Henry a perennial All Pro and
free agency and giving Lamar Jackson a true number one
back and now in Baltimore. Henry talked about being paired
(33:24):
up with the reigning league MVP.
Speaker 12 (33:27):
Definitely it's a different aspect because he's a dual threat
quarterback and he's dangerous with his legs just as he
is with his with his arm. And it's gonna be
fun and a breath of fresh air out being the
center of attention, knowing the odds are gonna be on
him as well home, I'm just decided to get to
(33:47):
work and put the work in out here and let
it all come together when it's that time, you know.
Speaker 9 (33:52):
I think Derrick Henry is probably at worst a top
three running back right now. And the reason he didn't
have the same gaudy stats the last couple of years
was Tennessee's offense and really offensive line took a big
step back, and I think right now, going into his
first season in Baltimore, This is going to position the
Ravens to a spot they've never been in before, which
(34:14):
is to have a dominant back With Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I think JK.
Speaker 9 (34:17):
Dobbins could have been that person had he been healthy.
But now you get inside the twenties and inside the
red area, and if you're a defensive coordinator, and I
spoke to one today about this, you have to change
your entire philosophy because you have to worry about the
Reid option. With Lamar and Derrick Henry, he's an absolute workhorse,
one more common on him.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
I spoke with Melvin Sanders, his longtime trainer.
Speaker 9 (34:37):
From Dallas, and he said he's never really worked with
anybody quite like Derrick Henry. He might be thirty going
on twenty five. His type, he's a unicorn. That his physicality,
the type of effort he puts in. It's not the
normal guy who gets two hundred and fifty three hundred
touches a year. He's really younger than what his age suggests.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Good stuff. Jordan with the news, Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by line on JJ Reddick and
the Lakers. He could be in the driver's seat.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 13 (35:13):
Hey, we're Covino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 13 (35:19):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 14 (35:21):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, you blubber list name in me.
Speaker 13 (35:36):
Well you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 14 (35:40):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 13 (35:54):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, So maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 14 (36:04):
There you go, over Promising and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 9 (36:16):
The Summer of Stars has arrived with one of the
biggest international soccer tournaments in the world, the Euros, finally
kicking off tomorrow when hosts Germany take on Scotland live
on Fox. Don't miss it cover It starts at three
pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
All right, the story this morning, this afternoon, the Lakers
are going to interview j. J. Reddick for the coaching job.
There's the other story. James Borrego is considered a leading
candidate after Dan Hurley passed, so the Cavs want him also.
Whoever they hire, it feels like they botched it right,
Like we can be honest with that. I said to
(36:52):
Rachel Nichols. They should be called the Los Angeles Leakers.
Everything gets out every rumor why the Cells are winning
a title, and a big part of that is their
front office, their executive suite. The Lakers don't have a
coach the drafts in two weeks. Free agency starts June thirtieth.
They don't have a coach, and if they hire JJ Reddick,
(37:13):
he'll be the least experienced head coach in the league,
with unrealistic expectations and one of the smartest, most demanding
players in Lebron James. And they don't know who their coaches.
And remember that four other teams have already hired a
coach in staffs, and it could be five if Cleveland
gets it done in the next thirty six hours. Okay,
(37:36):
this isn't complicated. This is the way it works in
the NFL. You want to hire a coach quickly. You
want to get your coach in, but you want to
get the best offensive coordinator you can in college. If
you get a college football job, you want to go
get two or three of the best recruiters in the country.
You want to get these staff You got to figure
out very quickly coach has gone new coaching. You gotta
(37:56):
have a list. What was the Lakers' list, A podcaster,
a college icon. It's I mean, it's at some point
Lebron James is masking what appears to be the truth
with this organization for ten years. It's a bit of
a mess. It feels sort of like they wing it
(38:18):
stuff Lee. I always worry about businesses, white houses, organizations
where you get constant leaks. Why is everything getting out?
That means people inside the organization are protecting their butt,
seeking leverage, don't agree with the boss. Why whatever reason
(38:38):
the Dan Hurley thing gets out, you got to protect yourself.
I mean, if I was the Lakers GM Rob Polenka
and I was interested in Dan Hurley, and I've always
thought about this, I'll say we're very interested. If the
word gets out, we're interested. I will cancel the flight.
John Lynch has done this before with San Francisco when
(38:59):
they're making big moves. If it gets out, we're canceling it.
If you're a well run organization, you have that leverage
that you're never desperate. Just tell people, if it gets out,
we cancel it, we take away the job offer. It's
the Lakers. We have options, but it just feels like
it's just.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Mayhem.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean, it could be Mike Brown, it could be
Luke Walton, it could be Frank Vogel, it could be
Darvin Ham. It feels like they're making it up as
they go. All right, I thought this was interesting. Last
night quickly Tom Brady had his He entered the Ring
of Honor in New England Foxborough at the stadium last night.
I do think this is an organization really struggling to pivot.
They hire one of Belichick's favorite guys to be the coach.
(39:42):
They can't get offense right, you know, they're they're holding
something else, you know, to honor the past and very
Chicago Bears. The league is pivoting offense. They have no offense.
They finally, to their credit, in this draft, went heavy
into offense. But here was Tom last night, Angeley and
a night the Celtics were playing in the finals on
television about Bill Belichick.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
To coach Belichick, then.
Speaker 15 (40:14):
Thank you for your thank you for your tireless commitment
to develop and push me to be my very best.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It wasn't me, It wasn't you. It was us, our.
Speaker 15 (40:28):
Hard work, our love of the game, and the way
we worked for one another. That's what it was all about.
Let me make this crystal clear. There is no coach
in the world I would rather.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Play for than Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'll tell you. One of the great things about Jerry
West and why he was able to repeat his success
building dynasties over and over. He did not romanticize the past.
He didn't need pats.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
On the back.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
He built, he won it, regressed. He built, he won
it regressed. No rear view mirror. You gotta be careful
celebrating the past. This was great for Tom, but I
look at that roster and they are so offensively deficient.
Drake May has almost no chance to succeed in a
division with Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen and one of the
(41:19):
two or three most creative offensive coaches. With TUA in
the Sport rough road ahead our three next
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right at tour two and a Thursday, Live in
Los Angeles, It's The Herd. Dan Hurley just stopped my
live from his office at Yukon.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We love that.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Rachel Nichols around the corner. Joel Klatt too. The soccer
guys are in the building at Fox today. A lot
of British accents, a lot of sophistication, a lot of
Europeans in the building today. My late mother was British.
A connection. I can feel it, a vibe as I
walk by. I love what soccer guys are in the building.
Little alpha, little chip on their shoulder, little European vibe
(00:57):
in the building today. All the executive this big deal
in the building sided. Jordan Schultz is joining us. So
Celtics are running over Dallas. They kind of melted down.
It's funny watching the Celtics melt down. And this is
just the way it is to be in the NBA.
You have to be so good. You have to be
so great to be in the NBA, meaning at some
point high school, au college, you were a dominant scorer.
(01:20):
And so whenever an NBA team gets out of rhythm offensively,
it's usually because they're best players. Go io ball, and
the Celtics last night get into about a seven minute
area where they just even the Celtics, who were very
collaborative and very smart, very veteran, got into this io
ball thing, and they melted. And so it can happen
to the best of teams. But Jalen Brown is gonna win.
(01:43):
I would imagine MVP of this series. He won MVP
of the Eastern Conference Finals. So Jason Tatum has shot
under fifty percent in six of his last seven playoff games.
Jalen Brown has shot over fifty percent in seven straight
playoff games. And we don't consider him to be the fluid,
esthetically pleasing offensive player. That's Tatum. So Tatum is viewed
(02:05):
as a superior talent. Jalen Brown reminds me of d Wade,
And I'll tell you why. Neither went to a massive
basketball power. Cal and Marquette both lean into power and
physicality over grace. Both are always the best athlete in
the floor. They're strong, physical players. Jalen Brown's dad was
(02:25):
a heavyweight boxer. You don't have to be talked into that.
That kind of sounds right. And we are so used
to in professional basketball having the best players make it
look so easy. A Michael and a Kobe and a
Magic It's just Steph Curry. It's easy, it's graceful. And
with Jalen Brown and d Wade, you see the grit,
(02:48):
you see the effort. It's not always pretty. But neither
d Wade or Jalen Brown has ever let their deficiencies
define them. It's great messaging is that d Wade was
never even in the three ball era. He couldn't shoot threes.
His career is twenty nine percent. Didn't define him, he
didn't take him. Jalen Brown when he first got into
(03:09):
the league wasn't a very good ball handler, and he
still doesn't have like a go to offensive shot. But
when Shaq and Lebron played with d Wade, they were
often the better talent. But d Wade was always the
soul of the heat, his toughness, his camaraderie, his collaboration,
(03:30):
his resilience, his physicality d Wade, even with Lebron and Shack,
there always the soul. And I would argue Jalen Brown
isn't the best Celtics, He's the soul of the Celtics.
When you think of even the bird Celtics, scrappy on
the floor, tough, get in fights, tackle if they had to.
(03:51):
That's what That's what Boston basketball is. When the Lakers
are great, they got a little sex appeal, it's showtime.
When the Celtics are great, punch your right in the forehead.
And that's kind of like Pistons basketball. That's when the
Steelers were great Historically. It wasn't because they were pretty.
When Belichick's Patriots were great. The only time they were
pretty Randy Moss, they didn't win super Bowls. And I
(04:14):
think Boston is defined by resourceful, tough, resilient, smart, collaborative.
And to me, I watched Jalen Brown and I feel
like I'm watching d Wade. They play above their weight.
I mean, the biggest dunk in the game last night
wasn't by the Biggs, it was by Jalen Brown. That
would often be d Wade. Well. Once a game, d
(04:35):
Wade six to four and a half would go to
the rim and jam over somebody six seven and a half.
The place erupts, and it defines the effort for the heat.
So I love watching him play. As coach talked about
him after.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
How can I explain Jalen The guy just has a
growth mindset. He just wants to get better. He yearns
to get better. He's not afraid to face his weaknesses,
you know, on the court. And so when you have
that type of mindset, you're just going to be able
to take on every situation that the game brings you.
So he puts himself in every single situation that he
(05:08):
sees in a game. He uses six seven, eight coaches
a day. In every situation on both ends of the floor,
he puts himself in there. And that's how you have
to grow, is to become vulnerable on the things that
you know make you uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And he does it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I said, when I saw him at cal play, I
thought he looked like a football player. He was really
rough around the edges, but a wildly talented athlete. Every
year you can see the time he puts in. It's
not always graceful, it's not as aesthetically pleasing as Tatum,
but it is the soul of the Celtics and Rachel Nichols,
who's been covering the NBA since nineteen ninety three. We
(05:42):
got all sorts of stuff going on in the NBA.
I'll pivot off the Celtics after this question, though, but
there is always that question, and we thought about it
last year with Denver. Is this just a one off?
Or can we have a dynasty? And in the NBA,
we tend to look get eras and decades. If I
(06:02):
say seventies NBA, there was no great team. If I
say if I say eighties, Magic Bird, nineties, MJ two thousands,
it's Shaq Kobe. Are these Celtics with Porzingis's injury history,
are they going to be an ERA team or just
like KG Pierce Allen, a great team for the moment?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
I think an ERA team.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
The definition may change, right, I just think, and we've
talked about this before, the talent level in the NBA
is so much higher than it has ever been because
you have now the world's most talented athletes coming to
the NBA, where even ten years ago, you weren't having
this much of an influx of international players and they
hadn't reached their height of their abilities. The last five
(06:45):
MVPs have gone to international players. So because there are
more talented guys across the league, it means more teams
are better, right, More teams have a chance of having
a really a one talent on their team. Because of that,
I don't see someone winning six tight like Michael Again,
I don't even know if someone can do what the
Warriors did even semi recently, right, but I mean semi recently.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
They won their first title nine years ago.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
Time passes, and I just feel like because of the
depth of the NBA, the Celtics maybe being an eerospecific
defining team is winning two or you know, we don't
know yet.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I mean, there's never been an NFL team that's won
three straight. And we've had on the Steelers in the seventies,
you couldn't score on. You had Belichick and Brady the
best coach quarterback. So nobody's won three straight. And I
will say this, I said it earlier. A part of
the Celtic greatness is really taking advantage of something that
you may not be able to take advantage of They
got Porzingis, Derek White and Drew Holliday off tanking teams
(07:46):
San Antonio, Portland and Washington were I mean literally like tanking,
and they went take, take, take. The league doesn't want
what they are, which is like eight deep. Horfords made
multiple All Stars. So to your point, I think it'll
look different because Derek White, somebody's gonna grab him and
pay him a lot of money. But I do think
(08:07):
dynasty in this era could be defined with back to backs.
Speaker 6 (08:10):
Yes, absolutely, And look, they're they're clearly so talented. It's
why I pick them going into the series. They have
six of the eight best players on the floor, and
they have learned from their mistakes. I thought the quote
you just played from Joe Mizulla was perfect. He encapsulated
it perfectly. He was talking about Jalen Brown specifically, but
Jalen has been sort of emblematic of how this team
(08:30):
has grown overall because they faced what they did wrong,
they acknowledged it, they worked on it, and they got better.
And that's all we ask of these athletes, right, I mean,
I know we're going to talk about Luca and the
mistakes he made last night. The real test to me
isn't what Luca did in Game three of the twenty
twenty four Finals. It's does he learn from it and
get better? And that is how I will judge him.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, tragic Johnson after about eighty four finals exactly. Yet
Lebron James, when he had so few layers to his game, he.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
Had eight points in an NBA Finals game. Yeah, into that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Wall out of basketball and so I find. What I
find is though the smart players MJ and Lebron looked
themselves in the mirror and go Okay. MJ said, I
gotta trust teammates. Yeah, Lebron said, I gotta add some layers,
a low post game, better at threes. So for Luca,
what's interesting, though his offensive game doesn't need anything, a
lot of it is shoulders up where he unravels. He's
(09:29):
been told since he was fourteen, he's a prodigy. You
know the d wades in Jalen Brown's who had to work,
and you can see the work is different than at thirteen.
People are like, he's the best rising star in the
history of European basketball. Yes, I worry about Luca because
I don't worry about physical divisions. He's although he's not
a good defensive player, but can he look himself in
(09:51):
the mirror and say, I've gotta trust teammates. I've I've
got to engage every time down the floor in the finals,
I don't have to be Jalen Brown. I'm the defender.
That's what I worry about.
Speaker 6 (10:02):
Yeah, that's the big question, right, And we all have
seen this with pro athletes. You've been told you're great
since you were eleven, twelve years old. You've been the
best player on your team for most of your entire life, and.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
You've been getting away with it.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
That's really the key is that Luca has been getting
away with talking to the refs, you know, not necessarily
getting back on defense, you know, not necessarily trusting his
teammates in the big moments. He's been getting away with
it because his team still generally win, you know, with
some you.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Know, and he hasn't faced a great team.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
And he's still even when his team loses.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
They didn't make the playoffs last year. It's not his fault.
The organization decided to tank. They didn't have the talent
around him. No one was blaming him. So this is
the first time I think he is facing a situation
that is this high profile where he's not getting away
with some of the deficiencies in his basketball behavior, and
I imagine it's a wake up call. And if it's not,
(10:58):
then he has a really big problem because there's a
couple easy areas for him to just elevate his already
incredibly elite game. Obviously, they're talking to officials because that's
just I mean, it's basic.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
One on.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
It's going to reverse calls one hundred percent, and all
it does is it makes it when he does have
a call that doesn't quite go the right way against him,
they don't even listen to him.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
Because he's the boy who cried wolf right. So and
then that in turn, hand in hand, get back on defense,
play the kind of defense that we saw him play.
He can play very good defense. We saw it just
the last couple of months. So get back and do that.
And then frankly, he's got to get in the kind
of shape where he can be in the best shape
of his life at the end of a very long season.
(11:42):
We saw Nikola Jokic do that, and that was a
game changer for him. Nikola Jokic as we all remember,
used to be the pudgy guy. Yeah, kind of laboring
up and down, the poor defender and not kind of
a poor defender. And I remember sitting down with Nikola
in the bubble, which was the first time he showed
up in twenty twenty is sort of looking like a
different person, and he was telling me all the changes
(12:04):
he made to his diet. We've had Joel Embiid make
a bunch of changes in the way he is and
his physical durability and all of that. Obviously the knees,
the ankles, that's different. But I'm talking about being in shape.
Luca has to decide can he be in that kind
of shape this deep into the season because Kyrie did it.
Kyrie looks like he might be in the best playing
shape of his life. And he's had issues in this finals,
(12:27):
but it hasn't been because he's been tired. Luca is
clearly tired. And when we're all tired, we are more
short tempered. No question, we don't play our best, we
don't do our.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Best, we don't commit to everything.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
We don't commit to everything.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
I mean that to me is the biggest thing I
see of what's wrong here and that is the biggest
thing I think he needs to change and everything else
will follows.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Suit. Is it fair to me to say this about
the Likers that I could rename them the Los Angeles Leakers?
Everything gets out everything. Yes, if I didn't know about
and Hurley and Reddick, it wouldn't look like such a circus. Yes,
I have never It's like a bad white house, Like
(13:08):
whether you liked Obama or not, nothing leaked. Everybody on
the same page, yep, okay, then the guy after him
everything leaked.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Like it just looks like it's a circus. Everything leaks,
And so is it fair to say at times it
looks chaotic from the outside, Oh.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
It absolutely does.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
And to me it goes back to the firing of
Darvin Ham. I'm not caping for Darvin Ham. People can
make their evaluations on whether he was a good or
bad coach or good enough coach for this team, but
you cannot make a decision to fire him one.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Year out for reaching a Western Conference.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
Finals without a plan of someone better that you are
going to find, Because maybe he wasn't the gold standard
for the Lakers, but he was a standard of where
they were this past year or two and they had
to know when they fire at him.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
The only reason to.
Speaker 6 (14:01):
Do that wasn't to get another guy who was here
or here. It's to get someone better and to have
at least an idea in your head who that would be.
Have those relationships so that you already know is this
guy really interested in us or not. We saw it
in Phoenix. I don't think that Frank Vogel should have
been fired. I think he was a scapegoat again for
the second time in his career. But at least the
Sons knew exactly who they wanted After Frank, they went
(14:24):
after him, and that contract with Mike Budenholzer was done
within I think forty eight hours, and they got their guy.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
I just feel like the.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Lakers did one thing without a plan for the other thing,
and that is what we are seeing right now.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I have a kind of a WNBA take, and it's
kind of I do not believe they're picking on Caitlin Clark.
I think if you watch the WNBA, I said this earlier,
it is not as dynamic a league, twitchiness wise, nor
is it as vertical as the NBA. So it tends
to be a horizontal league that is very physical yeah.
So if you've watched it for lee years, it's physical. Absolutely,
(14:58):
in the NBA, you can't stand of anybody. People are
just too fast or they jump over you. Yeah, that's
not the WNBA. So it is a physical league. It's
always been chippy. So I don't think anybody's picking on Caitlin.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I do think there's some some jealousy stuff. I mean,
it's by the way, that's life, welcome to Welcome to
the world. Yeah, but would I would say this to
defend the WNBA. I don't like the Olympic decision, but
that wasn't their call. But I'd say this. It does
remind me is that over the course of owning a business,
(15:32):
you can run a very fine business and then all
of a sudden in your business, something happens. There's a
culture change, there's an employee that arrives, there's a catalyst,
and your business explodes and you're just not quite ready
for it. You're not ready for the criticism, you're not
ready for the attention. And I feel like the WNBA
a year ago could have said, Caitlyn's coming in, let's
(15:52):
give her an easier schedule, let's talk about this Olympic
stuff if it's big and it just got so big
so fast. So discuss debated that women's basketball is a
little bit like whoahoa, whoa whoa, whoa wha. They're not
quite ready to be the lead story on debate shows.
It's not a criticism. I think this happens with tech companies,
(16:14):
Main Street, Wall Street. To get this tsunami of coverage
and heat. You've been ignored for twenty seven years. Is
that a fair place to land?
Speaker 6 (16:25):
I personally feel it's more about the type of criticism
that the league is getting than the criticism itself. These players,
the executives, they have tough. They have been fighting their
way through not only just to be elite basketball players,
but in a world that wasn't willing to hand them
everything the way a lot of their male counterparts have. Right, So,
I don't think they're crying on the floor because people
(16:46):
have been mean about them. I think it's the tenor
and the tone. I think that there are some people,
not everyone, but there are some people in the media.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Who have loud voices.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
The way they've approached talking about the NBA has been
quite frankly, very sexist, and I think that after.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Fighting all those fights and battles.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
I think there is a bit of pushing back and
also just a bit of frustration. Really, again, we have
to listen to this again. We have to listen to
people treating us so differently from male athletes. Again, why
can't we just be basketball players? I think that is
some of the frustration that you're sensing for them. I
do want to ask you about the Olympic decision, though,
because I think it made total sense. I'll make my
(17:23):
case to you and you can tell you can pick it.
Apart is that I think the US women's team is
one of the hardest teams to make in all of sports.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
It is harder to make Team.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
USA on the women's side than it is on the
men's side because if you look at the ten best
male players in the world, half of them don't even
qualify for Team USA. They're playing for their own countries, right,
So that allows more spots for guys who are in
the ten through twenty spot or twenty through thirty spot
to make it onto the team because a big chunk
of the people they'd be competing with are playing for
(17:54):
other countries. The vast majority of female basketball players who
are at that elite, elite, best in the world, world
level are Americans, so you're not getting those four or
five open spots when you pick out the top ten,
you're not getting that. And also it's a program that
really puts an emphasis on have you been there together,
have you been in these training camps? And they have
(18:15):
to do that because unlike the NBA where it comes
in the middle of a four month break between seasons,
this is in the middle of the WNBA season. So
Team USA, the women's team, will get seven practices before
they go play in Olympic competition.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Seven that's all they get to play together. So part of.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
The thought when putting together the team, and we've watched
sports for so long, it is essential to have chemistry,
to know what the other person's going to do out
on the core. We're seeing it right now with the Celtics.
That experience makes them a better team. And that is
why all of those factors contributed to Caitlin Clark not
getting on the team.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I absolutely believe she will be.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
On the next team if things continue as they are,
and many many more to come.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, I think there's more gray than people would acknowledge.
I think that's the great basketball argument say this that
women's basketball, and for the record, Bryce Harper went to
the same thing in baseball. Remember the jealousy and pigments
does not make this a women are petty. Bryce Harper
got into fights in the dugout with people. Baseball men
(19:16):
tradition can be petty. It could be church baseball. What
so that it's sexist to say women are petty. No,
there's people people are petty. Okay, So I would argue
this that holistically, the decision to put Caitlin clark on
is not a basketball decision. She's good enough to be
(19:36):
the last player because she statistically is Diana Frosty right now,
right right? Is that in a business that has been
had second class travel, second class attention, has struggled financially,
really needed the NBA to make it all decisions until
it is a profit center. Need to also consider be
(19:59):
on basketb all the business of it, and the WNBA
and the Olympic women's basketball team are kind of working
together to enhance.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Yeah, in an overall the overall sense.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
And I think when you complain for years about how
you're treated, the catalyst arrives Connor McGregor, Tiger and instantly
gets you on charter flights and the attention and by
the way, a better TV contract very soon. You almost
solid you kind of almost spot. Now that is subjective.
(20:32):
That is political Historically at the end of benches, certainly
for men Olympic teams, it gets very political. Yes, women
not so much because, like you said, where it lands.
So your argument is a basketball argument and it's the
right basketball argument. It doesn't make it the wrong business argument.
But I do think there's a business element. I said yesterday,
(20:54):
if I got you private flight for two years with
your family, you'd owe me an invitation to some party,
you know me something right like that. I feel like
Caitlin's like, I got you guys, charter flights and all
the attention, Can you squeeze me into the back end
of the team.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
But if your team USA, which is not the WNBA
ru right and has had a lot of success over
the years, so they're not at the level right, they're
not at the level where, oh my god, people are just.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Discovering it look at themselves needing it.
Speaker 6 (21:22):
They don't look at themselves as needing the degree to
what the w needs right, and they haven't gotten those benefits,
those benefits have gone to the WNBA, a different set
of coffers, a different business model, a different number of
people getting dollars in their pocket. They're worried about what
they can do, and if they don't get a gold
medal over in Paris, the repercussions are going to be huge.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
People will lose their jobs.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
So I think the idea is make it the best
basketball team it can be. And by the way, you
talk about political decisions at the end of the bench,
what happens if she does come in as the number
twelve player and gets playing time accordingly, which means not
very much at all. What do you think every question
is going to be at the beginning of.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Every press conference.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
They're responsible on TMOSA for the Olympic experience of every
athlete on that team. They're responsible for what the country
is talking about in terms of what that sets them
up for the money they try to raise and get
people to donate to our Olympic effort. They don't want
to create. If you're just going to now step away
from basketball and make a business decision on politics for
them separate from the w it's not a great business
(22:26):
decision in my opinion, because it sets you up for
people not to like you. Where right now there's controversy,
people are talking about it, But once those Olympics start,
these women are such talented players, they're great personalities, so
many of them are just jump off the page likable,
Asia Wilson.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
There's the quality of basketball so much better than twenty.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
Years ago, one hundred percent. And so I think people
will get behind this women's team. I don't think people
will be talking about Caitlin Clark every day at that point.
And you know, assuming that they go ahead and complete
the mission and win a gold medal, it will be
joy there as opposed to well what about this?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know, it's funny. I've thought about this before. Is
one of the people I was always jealous. I'm not
really a jealous person, but one of the people that
does what I always thought I wanted to do was
Bill Maher, who does like thirty one hour shows a year,
so he gets to go on and take two topics
and think all week about that. And I've always thought,
oh god, that's so perfect. I'm on a treadmill and
(23:22):
this is not an excuse. So is stephen A, so
is Skip, so are all the fine people at ESPN
and Fox, who do daily treadmill ships. The downside to
that is you're asked to have an immediate three hour
and opinion the minute something happens. And a prime example
with this is my initial take and I'm not sure
if I said it on the air or thought was God,
the women are being petty, And then over the course
(23:44):
of four or five days, I thought about it and
I thought, oh no, wait, Bryce Harper, it was embarrassing,
like baseball players were embarrassing towards Bryce Harper.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Think about what the distance did to Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I mean, just petty, and it's like guys, women don't
own petty. Like one of the pettiest industries is stand
up comedy dominated by men, like the entertainment business acting
stand up. A lot of petty businesses are male dominated.
But if I did a once a week show, you
(24:18):
could flush that out. And I'm not blaming anybody at
any network. I feel like I am to some degree
like every other guy at every network that does. Could
be Dan Patrick, it could be Rich Eyes, and it
could be stephen A. We're on this three hour treadmill,
and I think the Caitlin story is more nuanced than
a three hour debate show Who's better Jalen Brown or
(24:40):
Tatum that you can you can chew that up and
we can chop it up together all day and nobody
gets hurt and it doesn't feel like it's an avalanche
raining down in a young lady or a league. So
I think in my takeaway in the Caitlin Clark story
is it needs more nuance. And I don't know if
I was ready for it the first day I was
on the air.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
Actually, kind of like what you're describing here, It's kind
of what Joe Mizula was just talking about with Jalen Brown.
It's fine if you come out out of the box perfect, Okay,
I mean it wows us, but that doesn't Actually that's
not the way humans work. He talked about a growth
mindset there. He talked about addressing weaknesses things like that.
I think that people who are willing in public on TV,
(25:20):
in front of millions and millions of people Colin Cowherd
to actually evolve and not stick to the first opinion
that comes out of their mouth.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
That makes you so much better at your job and
as part of.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
The reason everybody wants to listen to you as opposed
to someone who is frankly a blowhard and just comes
out and says the first thing that comes to mind,
or just something where they haven't had a chance to
react because there's only so many hours in the day
and they're on in the morning, and then it sort
of sticks to it and.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
Digs in because they have to. That's why people come
to the show, because you are allowing for nuance.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I have to do a segment every week called right
and Wrong. There you go to acknowledge I am regularly wrong.
But I do think certain things need nuance, and we're
not built for it. Right. It'd be like an accountant
and you have to do taxes every day instead of April. Yes, right,
Like I'm jealous of the people in our business that
(26:11):
can write a book, Jeff Benedict or Anin O'Connor, or
you get to come on and you're on the treadmill too.
More and more. You're talented, but it is some topics
deserve nuanced, and we're not very nuanced. I am not
always very nuanced. I had to move off that Sam
Darnold's going to be a star as painful as.
Speaker 8 (26:29):
It was, Right, Joe, great scene, excellent one more heard.
The Herd streams twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd to listen
live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, driving to work today in Los Angeles, there was
almost no traffic. It was so nice. I don't know why.
It was just hope you you know, I'm taking tomorrow off.
J Mack willbe in and Jordan Schultz is with us today. Patriots,
by the way, retired. I thought it was so weird.
The Patriots retired Brady's uniform last night, on a night
the Celtics were playing in the NBA Finals. Couldn't you
(27:04):
looked at the calendar? I know, I thought that was
so odd. Good for tom but it was. It was
I would have chosen the day before or tonight. It
almost everybody in that area is a Celtic fan. Jordan
with the.
Speaker 7 (27:15):
News, No, no turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
This is the Herd line.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
News, all right.
Speaker 9 (27:21):
Colin Travis Kelsey has eleven seasons and three Super Bowl
rings under his belt and what will be a suing
Hall of Fame career. Speaking to the media yesterday, Kelsey
addressed how much time he has left in the NFL.
Speaker 7 (27:35):
That can't put a timeframe on it.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Man.
Speaker 7 (27:37):
I love coming to work every single day, obviously, I know.
Speaker 10 (27:43):
I know that there's opportunities outside of football for me,
and and I think you you got to keep in
perspective that that.
Speaker 7 (27:52):
You know, I'm still a little kid when I come
into this building.
Speaker 10 (27:54):
Man, I know I'm thirty four years old, about to
be thirty five, but I have a love to do
this right here in the middle of.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
The heat in June.
Speaker 10 (28:03):
You know, I love coming to work every single day
and doing this, So I'm going to do it till
the wheals fall off, and hopefully that doesn't happen anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Colin I really like him. I think he's got great perspective.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
He's awesome man.
Speaker 9 (28:16):
And what the Chiefs have done is awesome too, because
the culture they have built predicated around winning and Patrick
Mahomes and Travis Kelcey and Andy Reid is so special.
You mentioned earlier just a few minutes ago that no
team has gone back to back to back. The Chiefs
now have an opportunity to do it with coach Reid.
And I think the unsung hero as well is c Spagnolo,
(28:39):
who beat the Patriots twice was a huge factor in
the Giants winning two Super Bowls with Eli and now
has done an unbelievable job in Kansas City with a
defense that really was an afterthought when you talk about Mahomes,
but now has become a central component of the organization.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
So Brett Veetz from the GM.
Speaker 9 (28:58):
All the way to the quarterback to this Hall of Fame,
Travis Kelcey Hall of Famer, I'm so impressed with what
Kansas City has done and the league built and predicated
on parody.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's almost unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well, the Patriots and the Chiefs our two dynasties for
twenty years, and the one thing they have in common
stable ownership at their best, excellent front offices, legendary coach,
star quarterback. As the Patriots aged and Belichick blew out
a lot of the personnel people or took over the
(29:29):
draft right, it weakened. They did not have enough good
players at the end. And so one of the problems
with male dominated sports is egos and alpha. Kansas City,
more than New England, doesn't seem to have a problem.
Andy Reid does not want to control the draft. Belichick
wanted more, say Mahomes like Brady Will do a team
(29:52):
friendly deal, try to renegotiate his contract constantly. So I
always thought the reason the Seahawks didn't become a dynasty
because they had the players, is Pete wanted more control
than personnel than Sewn Snyder would give up. Pete had
an issue with Russell Wilson is that the dynamic, the
power dynamic, was never perfect. New England's was perfect until
(30:15):
about the last five to six years when Bill took
too much control of personnel. Kansas City is perfectly built.
I was literally at a resort not long ago and
sat next to the president of the Chiefs, and he
talked about that, about how the ownership lets the football
guys do football, the football guys let Andy do the coaching.
(30:37):
It's a that's so much more important. I mean, the
reason the Niners with Harball could have been a dynasty
Trent Ball, Key and Harbaugh, there were fissures in the relationships.
So what the Chiefs do better than anything is everybody
stays in their lane and is elite in their specific job.
Speaker 9 (30:57):
Absolutely, we talk about on the field chemistry, it's organizational chemistry.
The Chiefs have struck that perfect balance, and that's why
they're in a position to win three in a row.
We've seen a lot of wide receivers calling land huge
contracts this offseason, and we've seen some stars holding out
for deals of their own. Amari Cooper is the latest
holdout in Cleveland. But Deshaun Watson is backing his decision.
Speaker 11 (31:19):
He's the best in the game, and I believe that.
You know, he showed it each and every year. He
shows it the last two years with different quarterbacks. So
I think you got to put him up today if
not the best. Malmi is our brothers, our teammate. We
support him, and you know, the decisions that he got
to make for himself is his own, you know, Amari
so but everyone in his locker room respect him and
(31:41):
know exactly what he's about, and whenever he gets back,
he's gonna be ready to go.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, you don't get any drama and ego at a
position that has a lot of both, and so he
never quite gets the respect he deserves. He doesn't call
attention to himself, but he's really productive, great route runner,
rock solid person. I think he'll I think he's one
(32:05):
of those athletes that when it's all said and done,
you'll look at his stats I always said this about
Alex English of the Denver No.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Wow good, Yeah, yeah, you're like, really.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Alex English led the eighties in the NBA in scoring, Yeah,
no flash, no drama, didn't call attention to themselves. Amari's
gonna retire someday and you're gonna look at those numbers
and go, those are Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I don't like Mike Evans.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
It's similar, but at least Evans played with Brady for
a couple of years, so we were microscoped on his catches. Yeah,
Amari's a great player.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
He's a great player. He's twenty nine years old.
Speaker 9 (32:37):
He's coming off his best season as a pro, almost
thirteen hundred yards.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
He is productive.
Speaker 9 (32:42):
And I actually spoke with someone in that organization after
Amari didn't show up, and basically that the comment I
got was, Amari Cooper is what we want the Cleveland
Browns to be about. He's professional, he's consistent, and he's
dominant when when when he's on the field. So I
think he will ultimately get paid. The number really has
to be. I think over twenty five it makes sense
(33:03):
to me. And when you talk about him getting twenty
next year, he is significantly underpaid going into twenty twenty four. Yep,
all right, Colin, this is a This is a really
good one for me. The Ravens made a big move
this offseason, landing Derrick Henry a perennial All Pro and
free agency and giving Lamar Jackson a true number one
back and now in Baltimore. Henry talked about being paired
(33:24):
up with the reigning league MVP.
Speaker 12 (33:27):
Definitely it's a different aspect because he's a dual threat
quarterback and he's dangerous with his legs just as he
is with his with his arm. And it's gonna be
fun and a breath of fresh air out being the
center of attention, knowing the odds are gonna be on
him as well home, I'm just decided to get to
(33:47):
work and put the work in out here and let
it all come together when it's that time, you know.
Speaker 9 (33:52):
I think Derrick Henry is probably at worst a top
three running back right now. And the reason he didn't
have the same gaudy stats the last couple of years
was Tennessee's offense and really offensive line took a big
step back, and I think right now, going into his
first season in Baltimore, This is going to position the
Ravens to a spot they've never been in before, which
(34:14):
is to have a dominant back With Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I think JK.
Speaker 9 (34:17):
Dobbins could have been that person had he been healthy.
But now you get inside the twenties and inside the
red area, and if you're a defensive coordinator, and I
spoke to one today about this, you have to change
your entire philosophy because you have to worry about the
Reid option. With Lamar and Derrick Henry, he's an absolute workhorse,
one more common on him.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
I spoke with Melvin Sanders, his longtime trainer.
Speaker 9 (34:37):
From Dallas, and he said he's never really worked with
anybody quite like Derrick Henry. He might be thirty going
on twenty five. His type, he's a unicorn. That his physicality,
the type of effort he puts in. It's not the
normal guy who gets two hundred and fifty three hundred
touches a year. He's really younger than what his age suggests.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Good stuff. Jordan with the news, Well that's the news,
and thanks for stopping by line on JJ Reddick and
the Lakers. He could be in the driver's seat.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 13 (35:13):
Hey, we're Covino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 13 (35:19):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 14 (35:21):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, you blubber list name in me.
Speaker 13 (35:36):
Well you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 14 (35:40):
Well, it's a Cavino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 13 (35:54):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, So maybe we'll go at it even a
little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast
of all time.
Speaker 14 (36:04):
There you go, over Promising and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen Over Promised
with Cavino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 9 (36:16):
The Summer of Stars has arrived with one of the
biggest international soccer tournaments in the world, the Euros, finally
kicking off tomorrow when hosts Germany take on Scotland live
on Fox. Don't miss it cover It starts at three
pm Eastern.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
All right, the story this morning, this afternoon, the Lakers
are going to interview j. J. Reddick for the coaching job.
There's the other story. James Borrego is considered a leading
candidate after Dan Hurley passed, so the Cavs want him also.
Whoever they hire, it feels like they botched it right,
Like we can be honest with that. I said to
(36:52):
Rachel Nichols. They should be called the Los Angeles Leakers.
Everything gets out every rumor why the Cells are winning
a title, and a big part of that is their
front office, their executive suite. The Lakers don't have a
coach the drafts in two weeks. Free agency starts June thirtieth.
They don't have a coach, and if they hire JJ Reddick,
(37:13):
he'll be the least experienced head coach in the league,
with unrealistic expectations and one of the smartest, most demanding
players in Lebron James. And they don't know who their coaches.
And remember that four other teams have already hired a
coach in staffs, and it could be five if Cleveland
gets it done in the next thirty six hours. Okay,
(37:36):
this isn't complicated. This is the way it works in
the NFL. You want to hire a coach quickly. You
want to get your coach in, but you want to
get the best offensive coordinator you can in college. If
you get a college football job, you want to go
get two or three of the best recruiters in the country.
You want to get these staff You got to figure
out very quickly coach has gone new coaching. You gotta
(37:56):
have a list. What was the Lakers' list, A podcaster,
a college icon. It's I mean, it's at some point
Lebron James is masking what appears to be the truth
with this organization for ten years. It's a bit of
a mess. It feels sort of like they wing it
(38:18):
stuff Lee. I always worry about businesses, white houses, organizations
where you get constant leaks. Why is everything getting out?
That means people inside the organization are protecting their butt,
seeking leverage, don't agree with the boss. Why whatever reason
(38:38):
the Dan Hurley thing gets out, you got to protect yourself.
I mean, if I was the Lakers GM Rob Polenka
and I was interested in Dan Hurley, and I've always
thought about this, I'll say we're very interested. If the
word gets out, we're interested. I will cancel the flight.
John Lynch has done this before with San Francisco when
(38:59):
they're making big moves. If it gets out, we're canceling it.
If you're a well run organization, you have that leverage
that you're never desperate. Just tell people, if it gets out,
we cancel it, we take away the job offer. It's
the Lakers. We have options, but it just feels like
it's just.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
Mayhem.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean, it could be Mike Brown, it could be
Luke Walton, it could be Frank Vogel, it could be
Darvin Ham. It feels like they're making it up as
they go. All right, I thought this was interesting. Last
night quickly Tom Brady had his He entered the Ring
of Honor in New England Foxborough at the stadium last night.
I do think this is an organization really struggling to pivot.
They hire one of Belichick's favorite guys to be the coach.
(39:42):
They can't get offense right, you know, they're they're holding
something else, you know, to honor the past and very
Chicago Bears. The league is pivoting offense. They have no offense.
They finally, to their credit, in this draft, went heavy
into offense. But here was Tom last night, Angeley and
a night the Celtics were playing in the finals on
television about Bill Belichick.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
To coach Belichick, then.
Speaker 15 (40:14):
Thank you for your thank you for your tireless commitment
to develop and push me to be my very best.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It wasn't me, It wasn't you. It was us, our.
Speaker 15 (40:28):
Hard work, our love of the game, and the way
we worked for one another. That's what it was all about.
Let me make this crystal clear. There is no coach
in the world I would rather.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Play for than Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'll tell you. One of the great things about Jerry
West and why he was able to repeat his success
building dynasties over and over. He did not romanticize the past.
He didn't need pats.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
On the back.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
He built, he won it, regressed. He built, he won
it regressed. No rear view mirror. You gotta be careful
celebrating the past. This was great for Tom, but I
look at that roster and they are so offensively deficient.
Drake May has almost no chance to succeed in a
division with Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen and one of the
(41:19):
two or three most creative offensive coaches. With TUA in
the Sport rough road ahead our three next
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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