June 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin talks to former head coach Chris Peterson about Caleb Williams and why he’s struggled to adjust to the NFL after a prolific college career
Ric Bucher also stops by to talk about The NBA Finals and why the Pacers are giving the Thunder so much trouble
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It is a Friday, getting fired out one of my favorites.
Chris Peterson's a couple of minutes away, one of the
smartest guys in football. Great article in The Athletic about
Sean McVay and Chris Peterson this week my favorite article
ever in the Athletic and coach will be here in
a couple of minutes. So jamac as we go to
the second hour on a Friday. One of the things
I don't like to do, but I do ever, I
(00:49):
do have strong opinions on quarterbacks. I like to go
into a draft and tell people's I'm gonna take a
side on these quarterbacks. And there have been a handful.
I've really not thought we're gonna work. I said, the
t bow things, it's mythology. It's not gonna work. Manziell's
not gonna work, Zach Wilson's not gonna work, Daniel Jones,
Will Webs, JaMarcus Russell. I've come out when I when
(01:10):
I've really come out and said it's not gonna work.
I think I've been right now. There have been guys
that I've been higher on. Obviously, I love Trevor Lawrence,
Andrew Luck. Trevor has not delivered yet. I was high
on Sam Darnold. I think last year validated some of
my opinions. It's pretty special. But I will say Eldor
Sanders Shadoor Sanders is different. I don't love him like
(01:32):
I like Andrew Luck or Sam Darnald. I don't think
he's that kind of athlete. But when you see the
numbers and I watched them in college. When you see
the numbers that he's completed seventy seven percent of his
throws in OTA's in mini camp and he set the
all time accuracy record in college behind a bad old
line and no run.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Game, it is kind of startling.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's like, Wow, So do I think he's a franchise quarterback?
I do, But you know, Brian Dabele had issues reportedly
from reporters I trust, and Mary kay Cabot says the
Cleveland staff is kind of it's slow growth. They're not
giving him the whole playbook here yet they are. Dylan Gabriel,
I don't know that to be true, but I trust
Mary kay Cabot. Here is Stefanski again talking about Shador Sanders.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
He's a very very hard worker. He has fun when
he's in the building. I'm enjoying watching him progress with
every single meeting, with every single rep. He's doing a
great job. And I think as a young player, I
don't care what position you're playing, you're going to run
a play or you're gonna get something wrong. That's so
valuable because then you get to correct it get it
right the next time. And he's doing a really, really
(02:36):
nice job. I think he's showing up early, he's staying late,
and he continues to get better every single day.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
And that's the fun part.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So now the other thing that we know to be
true for all rookie quarterbacks is who's your first NFL coach.
You can do a lot worse than Kevin Stefanski. Now
that helps Dylan Gabriel as well, But I do think
that's a benefit for Shadear Sanders. Eric Mangini used to
coach the Browns, came on yesterday. He said, Cowherd pomp
the brakes.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
There is a desperation coming off with Deshaun Watson for
some quarterback to emerge, for some hope to be there
for the franchise. And they thought Sudor could could potentially
be a you know, a high pick form and then
they get him in the fifth round. So it's just
it exploded in Cleveland the second that he got here.
(03:27):
And what Kevin Stephanski is trying to do is he's
trying to tamper it down. He's trying to push it down.
And you see all of his reps have been with
the back end guys. He hasn't gotten any reps with
the Ones. To me that that's a good decision because
as soon as he gets in with the Ones, then
the hype train's gonna roll even further.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And there's no question I mean Cleveland, because they have
struggled historically, they're just dying for a star quarterback. They
want their Joe Burrow. You know, they passed on Mahomes.
They want their Joe Burrow. They want their Lamar. They
want their mahomes, so they go crazy when they get Baker,
Johnny Manseller, Deshaun Watson and that. You can feel the
(04:08):
hysteria building for Shador Sanders, But I kind of get
it because they've missed so many times.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Baker worked for a short term.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
With that. Chris Peterson is joining US Live Fox Sports
college football analysts.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
You know, it's funny about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I was talking about Caleb earlier, and I was a
big fan of Caleb. And I went to dinner last
night with the Bears president and I said, I said
he was magical for the first year at USC and
the first six games of the second and I said.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Then that Notre Dame game happened.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
He got sacked six times, and I think Lincoln Riley
and Caleb lost trust in the old line and he
got into really bad habits. And I thought last year
in Chicago the coaching staff didn't correct those habits. From
what you've seen of Caleb, the stuff we like about him,
Chris is pretty obvious. Are there things you've looked at
(04:58):
and that if you coached him, you would be like, hey,
I got to clean this up with Caleb Williams.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
I haven't studied them calling as much as you have.
Speaker 7 (05:07):
But I'll say this, you know, one of the harder
guys for me to ever coach in my career has
been scrambling quarterbacks that are really athletic and their legs
are as much of a weapon as their arm is,
because there's such a fine line between when you should
(05:28):
take off and when you should hang in, and it's
one of those things like no no no no, yes yes, yes,
yes and so and then you lose trust in your
O line. Well you know what's going to happen. So
you know, this guy is a phenomenal talent. But I
think at the NFL level, one of those superpowers that
(05:51):
these guys have to have is their pocket presence. There
needs to be an instinct in there. They need to
be trained in there, and really to be one of
the elite guys, they have to be elite in the pocket.
I mean, if you just go back to the Tom Brady,
who you know can't run it all, couldn't run it all.
(06:13):
I mean, that guy was so phenomenal in the pocket.
I mean that was his superpower in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
So Chador is not a runner.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You've seen plenty of him, he's he's he's more like
Kirk to me, He's got his comp could be Kirk
Cousins and maybe a little more movement.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Is there something?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Give me what you liked about him and something you
saw as an analyst and thought that that's a little
that's concerning.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, well I did like him a lot.
Speaker 7 (06:42):
I saw flashes where you saw the arm, talent, the anticipation,
I mean, the accuracy, So all those things you did see.
I mean at Colorado there was a I put together
a highlight one time in Washington.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
I was like, oh man, this guy's got something.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
But then going back to our campnversation, we just had
the weakness that I thought he had was pocket presence,
Like Schador to me is athletic, but he's not very fast,
certainly by NFL standards. So he is going to have
to like minimize what we're seeing on tape right here
and learn to get really good in that pocket. And
(07:19):
if he does and gets comfortable there, which is a
big f I think he can be really good.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So this next question, I got a lot of pushback
apparently on this. Thank god, I don't really read my
phone or email, but I got a lot of pushback.
I said, Listen, college football has pivoted to the playoff,
and the responsibility of Ryan Day is to get to
that playoff. And it's like college basketball. Tom Izzo's job
(07:47):
at Michigan State. Get to March. I don't care. You
can lose to your rival. You'll keep your job if
you get into the sweet sixteen in March. Those checks
keep getting cashed. And so I look at Lincoln Riley
and I say to myself, he didn't get to play
Oregon State anymore, or Washington State, or cow or Arizona.
Now it's Ohio State. It's going to be on the docket,
(08:09):
and Michigan and Penn State. The travel's worse, the weather's worse.
And also the two teams, the three teams that followed
him to the Big Ten are Oregon, Washington, and his rival.
So I can see Lincoln and USC going, Guys, we'll
play Notre Dame occasionally early in the season. We don't
(08:30):
want to have an annual November game. And I defend
blowing up that rivalry. Urban Meyer doesn't like it. But
from a coaching standpoint, how does it land for you?
Potentially not making that a regular game?
Speaker 7 (08:49):
I get one hundred percent where the Trojans are coming from.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Now, do I like that for the greater good of football?
Absolutely not, No one does it. Loves college football.
Speaker 7 (09:01):
That's one of the most historic ribberries in all of
college football. So it's like, wait, what what are you doing?
But I get it because you said it. It is
about getting to the college football playoffs. And you know,
I actually like the selection committee. I kind of like
that subjectivity. But one thing that I do think has
(09:22):
been a little bit skewed with them is strength of schedule.
They always talk about that, but when it push comes
to shove in my mind, when I look about who
they put in, they lean very heavily on the wins
and losses, maybe more so than the strength of schedule.
(09:43):
You know, I look at the March madness like you
were talking about, and you know, they have all these
metrics and no one seems to debate those on strength
of schedule and RPI and all those type of things.
And I think if college football brought that a little
bit more into the game with the committee, I think
you can make for a good formula.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So listen, most college football coaches, yourself potentially included, are
they love tradition of it. And there's a lot of movement.
There's the playoff, there's the nil, there's the transfer portal. Now,
the thing that bothers me more than everything is the
transfer portal. Because my take is I don't mind if
you transfer. I don't like you transfer in three times.
(10:24):
First of all, I actually don't think it's good for
the kid. I think you have to fight through bad
situations in life. And if it was up to me,
I would say, you get a transfer, but you can't
transfer more than once over eighteen months. That'll give you
about two in college. You don't get a transfer every year.
And you could say, well, coaches leave, they don't leave
every eighteen months. That's not the way it works. And coaches,
(10:45):
by the way, are bosses. Players are employees. My bosses
at Fox get things that I don't get. That's the
name of the game. But if I said to you
what needs more tweaking going forward, the transfer portal or
the ni.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
L What scares you a little bit? What worries you more?
Speaker 7 (11:04):
Colin, if I'm hearing you right, are you trying to
lobby to be the commissioner of college football?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Because I think I think we take you. I think
we would.
Speaker 7 (11:12):
I mean, here's the thing about what's going on, and
I think most fans understand this. There's a lot of
good information out there. There's a lot of logic some
of the things you're talking about. The problem is everything's
getting sued right now, and the lawsuits are not over yet,
even though the House settlement's coming down and it gives
(11:33):
us a little more structure, but who knows how that's
gonna last.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
But there's no question, you know the NIL.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
I think every most people in the game, the coaches,
the players, they admit they get the NIL. I think
everybody's on board with that. There's no question. It's the
transfer portal and the tampering and you know, a guy
going to five schools in five years and all, and
it's you're right, it's not better for the kids in
the long run. There's just no real structure to it.
(12:01):
And I will tell you me, being not on the sidelines,
my whole heart and souls into the greater good of
college football. And it's just like I worry. I talk
to so many fans like you do. They're getting so
fed up with the college game.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
You know.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
It's like I've heard so many people like I'm out.
I'm not renewing my tickets. I'm done with college football.
And it's because of for a lot of these longtime fans,
they have a hard time wrapping their mind around paying
the players. That ship is sailed. I think they can
get over that. But what they don't want to do
is pay these players and then have them leave every year.
(12:39):
You don't even know who the players are. And I
think you're feeling that even more so in college basketball.
To me, college basketball problems are always a couple of
years in front of football, the extremness of it, and
you're seeing that in Calle. You know, I used to
be the biggest college basketball fan and I can't even
follow college basketball.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
So I know that's coming in college.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Football unless we put some some guardrails on this thing.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
So I hope it gets worked out sooner than later.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, And I also think if you the transfer portal
is one of those things It's like in life, Oh,
I make more money, I'm happier.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Where more money, more problems.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And I look at the transfer portal and you say, oh,
I'm gonna go buy I can go buy a starting corner.
Brian Kelly Lincoln Riley, Dion Sanders. A lot of these
programs that brought in heavy transfers, their chemistry is no good.
So I still like Deebo Samuel Davo Sweeney this year
is gonna have a great team. He doesn't believe in
the portal in the nil So I still believe you
(13:34):
have to build through high schools.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I want to go to this article Sean McVay and
if you haven't read it, folks, it's just great. And
basically Sean was going through a personal crisis a couple
of years ago and you reached out to him and said, hey,
I know what you're going through. Sean McVay is one
of those people that I remember the first time I
(13:57):
saw him at the podium, I was like, how old
is he?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
He should be a president.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
When you when with your conversations with Sean McVeigh, have
you ever met a coach maybe at that age especially,
what to you is the secret sauce to him? Because
I think there's an argument even with Andy Reid, he
is the best coach in America right now, you can
argue college or probly maybe the best coach in the world.
(14:24):
What jumped out to you as a veteran coach with him.
Speaker 7 (14:29):
Colin, I think you're exactly right. I think this might
be the best coach in the world. I mean, and
I'll tell you why. The guy is truly a football savant.
I can't tell you the type of mind he has,
how he remembers things plays.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
You know, We've been talking for a couple of.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
Years, things that I said to him, you know, years back,
that he'll bring up, and I'm thinking I said that
he doesn't forget anything. So this guy true knows offense
defense inside and out. He could be a world class
defensive coordinator. So he truly is the best in terms
(15:10):
of x's and o's, as good as anyone that I've
certainly encountered. But to me, what makes him so special is,
you know, before he's what thirty eighty, he won a
Super Bowl, been to another one, and has the humility
to say, yeah, this isn't working so well. You know,
(15:32):
all those things that we've been after our whole life
isn't feeling exactly how it should feel. And for him
at that point to say I need to figure some
things out and then make the changes, it is phenomenal.
Like this guy is an inspiration to me, and I
can't wait till more coaches get to hear him talk,
(15:53):
because first of all, most coaches that are in the
hot seat in their current positions aren't going to talk
about being miserable and how hard this is. They're just
not They're not going to go there. Sean Will, he's
that secure that he has that type of humility and
it's just aweso.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
And then for him to go.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
And work to change his own game, it's just really
like nothing I've ever seen. And so he's an inspiration across,
you know, in terms of the total package of like
because it's that thing, like you know when you talk
about change, and you know, it's that cartoon you ask, Hey,
who thinks we need to change? And everybody raises their hand,
(16:36):
and then the next question is, Okay, who wants to change?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Nobody's going to raise their hand, right.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
I Mean, the hardest thing we have to do in
life is probably change ourselves.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
And this guy is full on embrace that.
Speaker 7 (16:50):
And so for a guy it's accomplished as much as
he has, as smart as he is to have the humility,
the self awareness to go I need to change some
of these things to help myself.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
And this pro it has been. It's an inspiration.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
I can't wait for more people to really figure out
and listen to Sean Talk.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Chris Peterson one of my absolute favorites. Fourteen years as
a head coach Boise State for eight, Washington for six,
Coach of the Year, two time Bear Brian Award winner.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
We love having him at Fox.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Izoa's coach and I appreciate you on a I imagine
a drizzly day in Seattle once again joining our show.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
I appreciate you, Colin. It's great to talk to you.
And how many days do we actually have?
Speaker 7 (17:34):
You know, college football is kind of a train wreck
outside of the Saturdays, but on Saturdays, let's Joe.
Speaker 9 (17:42):
Absolutely it's a little messy, a little chaotic.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Chris Peterson great stuff Fox Sports. Also today, Rik Buker
Stu Holden stops. But I gotta tell you something that
that that United States men's national team for match losing
streak and Christian Holistic not joining the team. So I'm
on team Polistic on this one. He's the world he's
our best player, and I think the signal he is
(18:08):
sending is World Cup is won. Being a star and
being paid eight figures annually is two, and all the
other stuff like the Gold Cup, that's a distant third.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And I think he's right.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I think as are American soccer players have elevated to
the point of starring in Europe country first, cash second,
all the regional tournaments distant third. So I support it.
Alexi Lawless does it. We'll talk to Stuholden next hour.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The night is big could be historic.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Teams that go ahead three games to one and the
history of the NBA are thirty seven and one in
the finals. Okay, so Indiana's fourth quarter supremacy. Okay see
starts fast, Indy finishes strong. It's at Indy. Okay see look,
(19:23):
gas didn't get a lot of time to rest. Indy
is great at home. Okasee is very vulnerable at home.
Ok C needs the whistle. When they get the whistle.
When SGA gets to the free throw line more than
eight times, they're nine and two. If not, they're a
five hundred team. Jmack with the news.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
No, no, turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is the herd Line news.
Speaker 8 (19:48):
You've heard of the Merchant of Venice, the Merchant of Oklahoma.
Speaker 9 (19:52):
That's going to be the new one when they win
the title. All right, con let's get started here with
my main man, J. J. McCarthy.
Speaker 8 (19:58):
Now, I came on filling in for you weeks ago
and really gasped up the vikings. I liked him, and
you came on this week and hammered the vikings and
JJ McCarthy, well, the Minnesota media take took note and
asked JJ McCarthy yesterday about the narrative of his allegedly
weak arm strength.
Speaker 10 (20:17):
I would say, you know, a lot of it just
comes with the stigma of plant Michigan and you know,
not throwing the ball a lot. But at the same time,
you know it could be my frame. And you know,
they don't see a six five two forty guy, So
how can you throw at sixty one miles an hour
at the combine and all that. But at the end
of the day, you know it's gonna show up, and
you know the people that know know, and uh yeah,
(20:39):
I think it's just you know, the situations I've been
in and maybe you know, not passing the eye test
for some people.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Now, first of all, the word I use to describe
his arm strength was modest. His arm is He's got
a modest arm. It's okay, it's it's Kirk Cousin's ish.
It's not a bad arm. He didn't have a noodle arm.
Speaker 8 (21:00):
Time out.
Speaker 9 (21:00):
Let me just interject with a fact.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
At the combine he had the second highest velocity on
his throat sixty one miles an hour, behind only your
immortal hero Joe Milton. Remember with the Patriots, Now I
believe with the Cowboys, So carry on, Kerry.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Again.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
His arm is fine. Do I think it's Alan Mahomes Stafford?
Do I think it's No, I don't. I think it's
It'll be somewhere between, you know, twelfth and seventeenth in
the It'll be. It'll be fine. He's got a fine
I watched them at Michigan. His arm is okay. His
arm ischiandor Sanders. It won't be an issue, it won't
be a strainth it's fine.
Speaker 9 (21:39):
I would push back on that, but let me move
on to the next element of this. JJ McCarthy. So
obviously the media was really excited about this. I'm not kidding.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
They took your word and were grilling McCarthy. Do you
think honestly he turned the hat backwards because he knows
that's the thing. You go like, I'm being dead serious, Colin.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
No, I don't think he's aware of that.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
Lot of people people are.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
This is like a running joke among players, the hat backwards.
Speaker 9 (22:05):
It's a real thing.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You may well know.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I have had the lecture a handful of players through
the years. When I see them in person, I've told
them I don't like it. I told bow Nicks don't
do that. But nobody listens to me, And I think, again,
I don't know what I said this yesterday. I like
mystery with my true crime series, not with my quarterbacks.
I just like to I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports.
(22:32):
Much like Snor Sanders, he got a great landing spot,
justin Jefferson a great left tackle, and Kevin O'Connell, and
just like Cleveland Kevin Stefanski.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Like that helps? So do I think that helps?
Speaker 10 (22:47):
So?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I think it's harder to be Caleb Williams with Matt
eber Fluse than JJ McCarthy or bow Nix to get
an offensive coach that I think that's about fifty percent
of the game for these young quarterbacks. It's who do
you land with chaos or an offensive guy. So I'm
just I'm not saying it's not gonna work. I just
I see mystery. His arm is modest, But you.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Should have seen Patrick Mahomes getting the gifted landing spot
of Andy Reid. And oh, by the way, that guy,
I believe his name was Tyreek Hill, who was an
electrifying game breaking receiver at the time. So you know, Mahomes,
he got it better than JJ McCarthy's got it. And
he got to sit for a year behind Alex Smith.
That's about as good as he gets. Let's get to
the next story, and that's the forty nine ers Colin.
Speaker 9 (23:29):
Big off season.
Speaker 8 (23:30):
For them on the defensive side of the football, and
they made some offensive moves as well. They do retain
the core of Perdy, Kittle and Warner, not to mention
McCaffrey coming off of six and eleven season. Steve Young
loves how the front office handle things.
Speaker 11 (23:45):
I'm very happy with how they handled the off season.
Had a clear plan. It was a plan that was
it was retooling. It wasn't a complete restructure. Now what
has to happen is your veterans need to stay healthy.
Trent Williams number.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
One, that's exactly He is exactly right the story for
the Niners because you've lost two very good defensive players
in the linebacking unit and the safety spot. Trent Williams
is the key. Dbo's gone. Now, cross your fingers on
Ayuk's health. It's and by the way, cross your fingers
(24:22):
on Christian McCaffrey's health. He's got a lot of carries
and Trent Williams. That's the key to this whole. You know,
I've told you before. Take Brock pretty out of it.
When Christian McCaffrey doesn't play, Shanahan's record is under five hundred.
Forget Brock. When Christian doesn't play, they.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Don't win as much. Do you think he's gonna play
seventeen games. I don't.
Speaker 9 (24:46):
I don't want to playing seventeen games. Take some weeks off.
Speaker 8 (24:49):
When you're you know, twelve and three in coasting to
the number one seed in the NFC final story Collin
is to the NBA.
Speaker 9 (24:55):
Now this is interesting.
Speaker 8 (24:57):
We get a slow drip almost daily of Yiannis crumbs
coming out of Milwaukee. The latest, which I think is
total boulder dash. Milwaukee allegedly is is pitching Yannis on Hey, hey,
you can have the ball in your hands more next
season if you stay. And here's a problem.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
He led the.
Speaker 8 (25:17):
League in usage this past season, Like, what the hell
are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Bucks?
Speaker 8 (25:22):
Then that's why I just don't believe this crap. And
a lot of those guys are point guards or guards
that are heavy with the ball. Gianni's is a big con.
I just don't get it. He was second in touches
per game behind Dame on his team, so he's getting
the ball a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And I don't want him with a ball which two
minutes left because he's not a good free throw shooter.
So's if that's the pitch. If that's your pitch, it's
not much of a pitch. I've said this. You got
a title with Luel Sinder at the time you got
a title with Yannis. A lot of these small markets,
(26:02):
I mean, if you look at dynasties the history Boston,
San Francisco, Los Angeles, multiple times, Chicago players more attracted
to those areas. A lot of the small markets that win,
they get one. A majority of the small markets who
are really good don't even get one. You got one,
pat yourself on the bet you got one. You can
(26:25):
get four firsts. I mean if you go to if
you going to Houston, you could get Sheng Goon another
starter and three first minimum in an era over the
next ten years where draft picks are going to be
better players because college basketball, due to the NIL, is
retaining more of its top players and stealing more of
(26:47):
Europe's top young players. So like to me, draft picks
are better going forward than they have in the previous
ten to fifteen years. So I mean to me this
fear sometimes of small markets of oh, we're losing our star.
Oklahoma City, Westbrook hardened, Kevin Durant left. They're back in
(27:07):
the finals because they came to terms with some guys
aren't happy. What we're not gonna do is bottom out.
And I think Milwaukee's closer to bottoming out even with Giannis.
Speaker 9 (27:18):
Than being grey.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Now do what Boston did. Danny Ainge rebuilt the Celtics.
They were still viable. Milwaukee's not a viable team right.
Speaker 8 (27:27):
Now, Colin, just to hammer home your point, listen, I
get it. Milwaukee was excited that Janis, who was taking
what thirteenth overall, became a star.
Speaker 9 (27:35):
Like a global ambassador. But fans need to realize, like.
Speaker 8 (27:39):
Hey, man, we drafted you.
Speaker 9 (27:41):
You played here for eight nine years.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
If you want to go somewhere else, that's your prerogative.
Speaker 9 (27:46):
You can do that. I hate this idea that fans.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
Think, hey, we drafted that guy, he's ours forever.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
That's not how life works.
Speaker 8 (27:52):
If Jannis wants to go see the world or America,
let him do it. This idea, if he asked for
a trading and people blast him and rip.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Him, listen, I'm just I'm gonna hate that.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Man.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Ninety percent of even great pro athletes do not do
a Kobe or a Jeter or an l way. It
doesn't work that way, especially in the mobility of society.
So I don't know how many years Jiannis is beginning
to end been in Milwaukee's over ten years.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Right from the.
Speaker 9 (28:18):
Dad and Lebron with Okay, you've got.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Division titles, you've got conference champions, you've got a ring.
Now go get four draft picks. Shen Goon an All
Star center another starter rebuild. I love, by the way,
one of the fun parts about being a sports fan.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Is the growth, the rebuild.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I mean, you don't think these okay See fan've been
selling out every game for like five years. These Okase fans,
they love this. All these guys are young. That's part
of what's great about basketball or football is the rebuild. Now,
you can do it faster in football than basketball. But
I mean, how exciting would it be if you're tomorrow?
I tell you the Bucks have four first rounders, an
(29:03):
all star center from Houston, another center that's not exciting,
and you gotta girl with the team.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
J mckle the news, Well that's the news, and thanks
for stopping by the Herd Line Newsian.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
It's been there twelve years.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Rick Buker thoughts on tonight, Indiana wins tonight, they're winning
the championship. They're winning the championship thirty seven and one.
If you take a three games to one lead, it
is there isn't outside of Indiana. There's not a GM,
a coach or a player that would have pick the Pacers.
This is crazy and we may see some history. Rick Bucher.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
Weekdays and Noone Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 12 (29:50):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 13 (29:55):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 12 (29:56):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 13 (29:58):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
Yeah, you blubber lit me.
Speaker 12 (30:13):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 13 (30:17):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 12 (30:31):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
A little harder.
Speaker 12 (30:39):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 13 (30:41):
There you go over promising and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us listen over Promised
with Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Well tonight, everything is on the line. I said this
a couple of days ago. Here's the bad news for OKC.
They're a young team and all the pressures on them.
I mean it feels like Indy's been playing with house
money since Milwaukee. So the younger team is on the
road where they're not nearly as good and all the
(31:16):
pressures on them to win because of the favorite ow
and by the way they've struggled in the fourth quarter,
and I would argue the best playoff fourth quarter team
is Indiana in the playoffs. There are a lot of things,
and I had said this before the series. A favorite,
They're very rarely in my life has a favorite to
(31:36):
win the NBA Championship in the finals, been one of
the younger teams. How young players react to trying to
clinch this series even if they're the better team, and
right now I'm not sure they're the better team. Rick
Buker is joining US Live You and I were talking
during the break. There's I think Indiana knew kind of
what they were getting, this ten deep, defensive rush, dominant score.
(32:00):
I don't know if OKC thought Benedict Mathern was this
good and TJ McConnell was this irritating. I feel like
you have these two ascending young players and they're creating
havoc and OKAC has been dislodged a little bit.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And that's my take. This Matherin kid.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I mean, I said the other day, there's a little
Westbrook here, like his energy.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
You loved him out of college.
Speaker 14 (32:26):
Yes, yes, I know. I loved him when he got drafted.
I loved his attitude coming out, was fearless, and I
believe that he could be this kind of guy. He
needed to pull it back a little bit and become
a little more efficient, but he has done that and
he has been a difference maker.
Speaker 9 (32:42):
Oka See.
Speaker 14 (32:43):
I believe knew what they were going to be facing
when it came to Indiana. I think the rest of
the world did not has not appreciated what the Pacers
have had and how perfectly constructed they are to create
problems for OKC, and that we think okay See of
having the depth and versatility, and they had that, but
(33:06):
so does Indiana and they also and this may be
the biggest difference they have in Rick Carlisle, a guy
who's already won a championship, manipulating an underdog roster and
winning a title. He's been to the playoffs sixteen times.
He's won a championship with a team under similar circumstances.
(33:28):
Mark Dagnall is a fifth year head coach making his
second appearance in the final in the playoffs and has
never been to the finals before, and so he's having
to react and CounterPunch with a guy who just understands
this platform and what he's doing on a far higher level.
And I think that that's why you're seeing Rick Carlile
(33:50):
do something very unorthodox. He's playing a nine man rotation.
You had nine guys in Game three play play fifteen
minutes or more for the Indiana Pacers. Oklahoma City Thunder
went with the traditional seven seven man rotation, and you
saw them gassed and exhausted.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
The Pacers pressed.
Speaker 14 (34:13):
Them ninety four feet for forty eight minutes. He where
Carlisle decided, you know what, I don't know if my
stars are as great as their stars, But I believe
that I'm more versatile, and I'm going to test the endurance.
I'm going to make this a war of attrition because
that's the one thing that I have is I believe
(34:35):
that I have more players that I can play more
minutes than OKC can. They've got to rely on their stars,
Jalen Williams and SGA to drive the bus on everything.
I've got a Benedict Mathern coming off the bench and
a TJ. McConnell who can go get their own buckets,
and I can give Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam some
(34:57):
rest so that when we do get to the fourth quarter,
all my bodies are fresh.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You know, with the new aprons and the CBA, you
can't stack rosters anymore. Looston was the last one to
have like a little bit of a stack roster.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I would argue that point guard.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I mean, when I was a kid growing up, centers
one titles, then it was Jordan and Kobe, it was wings.
I think we can make an argument that point guards,
efficient point guards that can score and elevate could be
the next ten years. You can't stack rosters, so what
you have to do is get a player that can
elevate others and make B guys B plus B plus
(35:38):
guys A minus. I think Halliburton could be the model.
Maybe I'm being hyperbolic here, but all these Aprons, we're
done with stacking. It's over. You can't do that. And
I look at Halliburton, I'm like, that is the ideal
player for Adam Silver's new NBA, Is it not.
Speaker 14 (35:57):
I believe that whether it's a point guard or a
point forward, but having a playmaker or multiple playmakers is
the answer.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Because one of.
Speaker 14 (36:06):
The things that makes Indiana again so challenging is that
it's not just Haliburton, but Andrew Nemhart handles the ball
and initiates the offense as much as Halliburton does. They've
got multiple TJ. McConnell coming off the bench. You have
multiple guys who wouldn't be described as great but just
very good. And they have eight to nine players as
(36:31):
a result that can feed off of those playmakers and
are not going to cost you the same as having
like the Phoenix Suns with Bradley Beal and Devin Booker
and Kevin Durant. I don't believe that the big three
model has worked for the last four or five years.
If you really break down the teams that have won championships,
(36:52):
but having playmakers who can make lesser players better and
scorers and guys who don't necessarily I really have to score,
who can just create for others. I do believe that
that's the secret sauce and having depth and versatility and
spreading the wealth literally in terms of how you spend
your money is the future of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So listen, Katie is easier to trade for than Yannis
because you don't have to give up as much draft capital.
And I've made this argument, Rick, I think over the
next ten to fifteen years, we're going to go back
to the old the Tim Duncan era, the Christian the
Grant Hill era, where college players are on a percentage
basis going to be safer picks because more players because
(37:36):
of NIL are staying for another year in college and
the NIL is cherry picking many of the top European players.
Illinois is going to have five Europeans international starters. So
college basketball went through about a twenty year run where
the player of the year at Doug McDermott or a
Tyler Hansborough is a rotational NBA guy, And I think
two years ago that Ucon team that won is the
(37:58):
beginning of the next decade of If you got six
NBA guys, these guys are going to come in and
be able to play. So I think draft picks will
mean more going forward. So I don't want to give
him up. You don't have to give up much for KD.
Is there is there a fit that you I don't
think it works in San Antonio, But is there a
fit to you where he really works and a team
(38:18):
has the capital to get him?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Boy, that's a tough question.
Speaker 14 (38:22):
I would say no, not necessarily because the first teams
that come to mind are Minnesota and New York in
terms of a place where he could go and would
be playing for a title and potentially make a difference.
But you're going to have to give up. Even if
you're not giving up draft capital, you still have to
give up players from your rotation. And can KD at
(38:46):
this stage of his career be a big enough factor
to make up for the players that you have to
give up. People seem to forget that when he went
to the Golden State Warriors. Yes, they let Harrison Barnes go,
but for the most part, it was because there was
this big bonanza of TV money that came in that
(39:08):
they could sign him as a free agent, and at
that point KD still had the wherewithal to become their
best rebounder, to be a shot blocker, to be a
defensive presence, and at the same time be their leading
scorer or have an impact offensively. I just don't know
that he has the game at this point, and the
(39:30):
teams that would be looking to acquire him have the
wherewithal to make a deal that's not going to undercut
them overall. They're not just adding KD to what they have.
They're going to have to give up pieces of some
magnitude contract wise in order to acquire him.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Finally, tonight, J Mack has been very very good picking
the Pacers. He liked him against Cleveland. I've been more
reluct but I think they have so many levers they
can pull in. Carlisle so good at it. I think
I like Indiana tonight as well.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
What do you say.
Speaker 14 (40:09):
I don't see Indiana losing another home game, and so
that includes tonight. In fact, I would expect that this
Tonight's game may not be as dramatic as the last one.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Wow.
Speaker 14 (40:22):
I just think Indiana has found the formula. If they
take care of the ball, they're going to be good.
And I just I don't know what Mark Dagnell goes to,
especially forty eight hours after Wednesday's game where clearly Sga,
Jalen Williams and Cheded Holmgren ran out of gas at
the end. I expect that the Carlisle is going to
(40:44):
come with the exact same game plan. And I don't
really see a CounterPunch for OKC unless unless Ali Caruso
has the kind of game that he had in game two.
But they're going to have to win the bench battle,
(41:05):
and I don't know that I see the role players
for OKASE doing that on Indiana's home floor.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
You know, that's a great that's a great point, and
we've talked about this for years. Role players and bench
players you get a huge there's a big delta in
their performance based on where they their stars are. Your stars, ye,
Shaq and Kobe were good everywhere, but your role players
and your bench guys can be phenomenal. I mean a
second quarter for Indiana's bench was it was I don't
(41:31):
remember a playoff finals game, I was like, the bench
is winning the game.
Speaker 14 (41:35):
Bennettic Matherin was their leading scorer off the bench, and
he didn't play in the first quarter at all, and
Carlisle went to his bench four and a half minutes
into the game. That's the formula is, I'm going to
play more guys than you play, and I'm going to
trust them to get the job done because I don't
have to rely. I mean, if you look at the
way the series is gone, and Haliburton hit the game
(41:58):
winner in Game one, but by and large, it's not
like Siakam and Halliburton have carried this team to these
two wins. It has been as much benedictte Matherin and
Andrew Nemhart and Miles Turner and Obi Toppen all coming
to the table and providing something.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Rick Buker as always, buddy, have a great weekend, enjoyed.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Tonight, Happy Father's Day. Yeah that Benedict Matherin.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
You guys were all giving me crap when I said
he's got a little Westbrook played in the PAC twelve
most athletic guy in his roster. He's a most athletic pacer,
insanely confident, a little loose, a little loose. There are
moments you're like, slow it down, but I don't know, man,
(42:44):
this kid is and plays bigger than his size. That
is Westbrook. Westbrook was super athletic, incredibly confident, ridiculous energy,
plays bigger than his size, and sometimes you're like, slow
it down, turn the governor on just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
You're going a little hot. This kid is. I'm gonna
stick with it. I don't care what you say. I think.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think he's got a little He may not be
as good as Westbrook all time. Westbrook's gonna be a
Hall of Famer, but the kid is jumps off the
TV screen power three necks,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It is a Friday, getting fired out one of my favorites.
Chris Peterson's a couple of minutes away, one of the
smartest guys in football. Great article in The Athletic about
Sean McVay and Chris Peterson this week my favorite article
ever in the Athletic and coach will be here in
a couple of minutes. So jamac as we go to
the second hour on a Friday. One of the things
I don't like to do, but I do ever, I
(00:49):
do have strong opinions on quarterbacks. I like to go
into a draft and tell people's I'm gonna take a
side on these quarterbacks. And there have been a handful.
I've really not thought we're gonna work. I said, the
t bow things, it's mythology. It's not gonna work. Manziell's
not gonna work, Zach Wilson's not gonna work, Daniel Jones,
Will Webs, JaMarcus Russell. I've come out when I when
(01:10):
I've really come out and said it's not gonna work.
I think I've been right now. There have been guys
that I've been higher on. Obviously, I love Trevor Lawrence,
Andrew Luck. Trevor has not delivered yet. I was high
on Sam Darnold. I think last year validated some of
my opinions. It's pretty special. But I will say Eldor
Sanders Shadoor Sanders is different. I don't love him like
(01:32):
I like Andrew Luck or Sam Darnald. I don't think
he's that kind of athlete. But when you see the
numbers and I watched them in college. When you see
the numbers that he's completed seventy seven percent of his
throws in OTA's in mini camp and he set the
all time accuracy record in college behind a bad old
line and no run.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Game, it is kind of startling.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's like, Wow, So do I think he's a franchise quarterback?
I do, But you know, Brian Dabele had issues reportedly
from reporters I trust, and Mary kay Cabot says the
Cleveland staff is kind of it's slow growth. They're not
giving him the whole playbook here yet they are. Dylan Gabriel,
I don't know that to be true, but I trust
Mary kay Cabot. Here is Stefanski again talking about Shador Sanders.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
He's a very very hard worker. He has fun when
he's in the building. I'm enjoying watching him progress with
every single meeting, with every single rep. He's doing a
great job. And I think as a young player, I
don't care what position you're playing, you're going to run
a play or you're gonna get something wrong. That's so
valuable because then you get to correct it get it
right the next time. And he's doing a really, really
(02:36):
nice job. I think he's showing up early, he's staying late,
and he continues to get better every single day.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
And that's the fun part.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So now the other thing that we know to be
true for all rookie quarterbacks is who's your first NFL coach.
You can do a lot worse than Kevin Stefanski. Now
that helps Dylan Gabriel as well, But I do think
that's a benefit for Shadear Sanders. Eric Mangini used to
coach the Browns, came on yesterday. He said, Cowherd pomp
the brakes.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
There is a desperation coming off with Deshaun Watson for
some quarterback to emerge, for some hope to be there
for the franchise. And they thought Sudor could could potentially
be a you know, a high pick form and then
they get him in the fifth round. So it's just
it exploded in Cleveland the second that he got here.
(03:27):
And what Kevin Stephanski is trying to do is he's
trying to tamper it down. He's trying to push it down.
And you see all of his reps have been with
the back end guys. He hasn't gotten any reps with
the Ones. To me that that's a good decision because
as soon as he gets in with the Ones, then
the hype train's gonna roll even further.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And there's no question I mean Cleveland, because they have
struggled historically, they're just dying for a star quarterback. They
want their Joe Burrow. You know, they passed on Mahomes.
They want their Joe Burrow. They want their Lamar. They
want their mahomes, so they go crazy when they get Baker,
Johnny Manseller, Deshaun Watson and that. You can feel the
(04:08):
hysteria building for Shador Sanders, But I kind of get
it because they've missed so many times.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Baker worked for a short term.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
With that. Chris Peterson is joining US Live Fox Sports
college football analysts.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
You know, it's funny about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I was talking about Caleb earlier, and I was a
big fan of Caleb. And I went to dinner last
night with the Bears president and I said, I said
he was magical for the first year at USC and
the first six games of the second and I said.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Then that Notre Dame game happened.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
He got sacked six times, and I think Lincoln Riley
and Caleb lost trust in the old line and he
got into really bad habits. And I thought last year
in Chicago the coaching staff didn't correct those habits. From
what you've seen of Caleb, the stuff we like about him,
Chris is pretty obvious. Are there things you've looked at
(04:58):
and that if you coached him, you would be like, hey,
I got to clean this up with Caleb Williams.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
I haven't studied them calling as much as you have.
Speaker 7 (05:07):
But I'll say this, you know, one of the harder
guys for me to ever coach in my career has
been scrambling quarterbacks that are really athletic and their legs
are as much of a weapon as their arm is,
because there's such a fine line between when you should
(05:28):
take off and when you should hang in, and it's
one of those things like no no no no, yes yes, yes,
yes and so and then you lose trust in your
O line. Well you know what's going to happen. So
you know, this guy is a phenomenal talent. But I
think at the NFL level, one of those superpowers that
(05:51):
these guys have to have is their pocket presence. There
needs to be an instinct in there. They need to
be trained in there, and really to be one of
the elite guys, they have to be elite in the pocket.
I mean, if you just go back to the Tom Brady,
who you know can't run it all, couldn't run it all.
(06:13):
I mean, that guy was so phenomenal in the pocket.
I mean that was his superpower in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
So Chador is not a runner.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You've seen plenty of him, he's he's he's more like
Kirk to me, He's got his comp could be Kirk
Cousins and maybe a little more movement.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Is there something?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Give me what you liked about him and something you
saw as an analyst and thought that that's a little
that's concerning.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, well I did like him a lot.
Speaker 7 (06:42):
I saw flashes where you saw the arm, talent, the anticipation,
I mean, the accuracy, So all those things you did see.
I mean at Colorado there was a I put together
a highlight one time in Washington.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
I was like, oh man, this guy's got something.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
But then going back to our campnversation, we just had
the weakness that I thought he had was pocket presence,
Like Schador to me is athletic, but he's not very fast,
certainly by NFL standards. So he is going to have
to like minimize what we're seeing on tape right here
and learn to get really good in that pocket. And
(07:19):
if he does and gets comfortable there, which is a
big f I think he can be really good.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So this next question, I got a lot of pushback
apparently on this. Thank god, I don't really read my
phone or email, but I got a lot of pushback.
I said, Listen, college football has pivoted to the playoff,
and the responsibility of Ryan Day is to get to
that playoff. And it's like college basketball. Tom Izzo's job
(07:47):
at Michigan State. Get to March. I don't care. You
can lose to your rival. You'll keep your job if
you get into the sweet sixteen in March. Those checks
keep getting cashed. And so I look at Lincoln Riley
and I say to myself, he didn't get to play
Oregon State anymore, or Washington State, or cow or Arizona.
Now it's Ohio State. It's going to be on the docket,
(08:09):
and Michigan and Penn State. The travel's worse, the weather's worse.
And also the two teams, the three teams that followed
him to the Big Ten are Oregon, Washington, and his rival.
So I can see Lincoln and USC going, Guys, we'll
play Notre Dame occasionally early in the season. We don't
(08:30):
want to have an annual November game. And I defend
blowing up that rivalry. Urban Meyer doesn't like it. But
from a coaching standpoint, how does it land for you?
Potentially not making that a regular game?
Speaker 7 (08:49):
I get one hundred percent where the Trojans are coming from.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Now, do I like that for the greater good of football?
Absolutely not, No one does it. Loves college football.
Speaker 7 (09:01):
That's one of the most historic ribberries in all of
college football. So it's like, wait, what what are you doing?
But I get it because you said it. It is
about getting to the college football playoffs. And you know,
I actually like the selection committee. I kind of like
that subjectivity. But one thing that I do think has
(09:22):
been a little bit skewed with them is strength of schedule.
They always talk about that, but when it push comes
to shove in my mind, when I look about who
they put in, they lean very heavily on the wins
and losses, maybe more so than the strength of schedule.
(09:43):
You know, I look at the March madness like you
were talking about, and you know, they have all these
metrics and no one seems to debate those on strength
of schedule and RPI and all those type of things.
And I think if college football brought that a little
bit more into the game with the committee, I think
you can make for a good formula.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So listen, most college football coaches, yourself potentially included, are
they love tradition of it. And there's a lot of movement.
There's the playoff, there's the nil, there's the transfer portal. Now,
the thing that bothers me more than everything is the
transfer portal. Because my take is I don't mind if
you transfer. I don't like you transfer in three times.
(10:24):
First of all, I actually don't think it's good for
the kid. I think you have to fight through bad
situations in life. And if it was up to me,
I would say, you get a transfer, but you can't
transfer more than once over eighteen months. That'll give you
about two in college. You don't get a transfer every year.
And you could say, well, coaches leave, they don't leave
every eighteen months. That's not the way it works. And coaches,
(10:45):
by the way, are bosses. Players are employees. My bosses
at Fox get things that I don't get. That's the
name of the game. But if I said to you
what needs more tweaking going forward, the transfer portal or
the ni.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
L What scares you a little bit? What worries you more?
Speaker 7 (11:04):
Colin, if I'm hearing you right, are you trying to
lobby to be the commissioner of college football?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Because I think I think we take you. I think
we would.
Speaker 7 (11:12):
I mean, here's the thing about what's going on, and
I think most fans understand this. There's a lot of
good information out there. There's a lot of logic some
of the things you're talking about. The problem is everything's
getting sued right now, and the lawsuits are not over yet,
even though the House settlement's coming down and it gives
(11:33):
us a little more structure, but who knows how that's
gonna last.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
But there's no question, you know the NIL.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
I think every most people in the game, the coaches,
the players, they admit they get the NIL. I think
everybody's on board with that. There's no question. It's the
transfer portal and the tampering and you know, a guy
going to five schools in five years and all, and
it's you're right, it's not better for the kids in
the long run. There's just no real structure to it.
(12:01):
And I will tell you me, being not on the sidelines,
my whole heart and souls into the greater good of
college football. And it's just like I worry. I talk
to so many fans like you do. They're getting so
fed up with the college game.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
You know.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
It's like I've heard so many people like I'm out.
I'm not renewing my tickets. I'm done with college football.
And it's because of for a lot of these longtime fans,
they have a hard time wrapping their mind around paying
the players. That ship is sailed. I think they can
get over that. But what they don't want to do
is pay these players and then have them leave every year.
(12:39):
You don't even know who the players are. And I
think you're feeling that even more so in college basketball.
To me, college basketball problems are always a couple of
years in front of football, the extremness of it, and
you're seeing that in Calle. You know, I used to
be the biggest college basketball fan and I can't even
follow college basketball.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
So I know that's coming in college.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Football unless we put some some guardrails on this thing.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
So I hope it gets worked out sooner than later.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, And I also think if you the transfer portal
is one of those things It's like in life, Oh,
I make more money, I'm happier.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Where more money, more problems.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And I look at the transfer portal and you say, oh,
I'm gonna go buy I can go buy a starting corner.
Brian Kelly Lincoln Riley, Dion Sanders. A lot of these
programs that brought in heavy transfers, their chemistry is no good.
So I still like Deebo Samuel Davo Sweeney this year
is gonna have a great team. He doesn't believe in
the portal in the nil So I still believe you
(13:34):
have to build through high schools.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I want to go to this article Sean McVay and
if you haven't read it, folks, it's just great. And
basically Sean was going through a personal crisis a couple
of years ago and you reached out to him and said, hey,
I know what you're going through. Sean McVay is one
of those people that I remember the first time I
(13:57):
saw him at the podium, I was like, how old
is he?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
He should be a president.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
When you when with your conversations with Sean McVeigh, have
you ever met a coach maybe at that age especially,
what to you is the secret sauce to him? Because
I think there's an argument even with Andy Reid, he
is the best coach in America right now, you can
argue college or probly maybe the best coach in the world.
(14:24):
What jumped out to you as a veteran coach with him.
Speaker 7 (14:29):
Colin, I think you're exactly right. I think this might
be the best coach in the world. I mean, and
I'll tell you why. The guy is truly a football savant.
I can't tell you the type of mind he has,
how he remembers things plays.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
You know, We've been talking for a couple of.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
Years, things that I said to him, you know, years back,
that he'll bring up, and I'm thinking I said that
he doesn't forget anything. So this guy true knows offense
defense inside and out. He could be a world class
defensive coordinator. So he truly is the best in terms
(15:10):
of x's and o's, as good as anyone that I've
certainly encountered. But to me, what makes him so special is,
you know, before he's what thirty eighty, he won a
Super Bowl, been to another one, and has the humility
to say, yeah, this isn't working so well. You know,
(15:32):
all those things that we've been after our whole life
isn't feeling exactly how it should feel. And for him
at that point to say I need to figure some
things out and then make the changes, it is phenomenal.
Like this guy is an inspiration to me, and I
can't wait till more coaches get to hear him talk,
(15:53):
because first of all, most coaches that are in the
hot seat in their current positions aren't going to talk
about being miserable and how hard this is. They're just
not They're not going to go there. Sean Will, he's
that secure that he has that type of humility and
it's just aweso.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
And then for him to go.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
And work to change his own game, it's just really
like nothing I've ever seen. And so he's an inspiration across,
you know, in terms of the total package of like
because it's that thing, like you know when you talk
about change, and you know, it's that cartoon you ask, Hey,
who thinks we need to change? And everybody raises their hand,
(16:36):
and then the next question is, Okay, who wants to change?
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Nobody's going to raise their hand, right.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
I Mean, the hardest thing we have to do in
life is probably change ourselves.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
And this guy is full on embrace that.
Speaker 7 (16:50):
And so for a guy it's accomplished as much as
he has, as smart as he is to have the humility,
the self awareness to go I need to change some
of these things to help myself.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
And this pro it has been. It's an inspiration.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
I can't wait for more people to really figure out
and listen to Sean Talk.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Chris Peterson one of my absolute favorites. Fourteen years as
a head coach Boise State for eight, Washington for six,
Coach of the Year, two time Bear Brian Award winner.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
We love having him at Fox.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Izoa's coach and I appreciate you on a I imagine
a drizzly day in Seattle once again joining our show.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
I appreciate you, Colin. It's great to talk to you.
And how many days do we actually have?
Speaker 7 (17:34):
You know, college football is kind of a train wreck
outside of the Saturdays, but on Saturdays, let's Joe.
Speaker 9 (17:42):
Absolutely it's a little messy, a little chaotic.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Chris Peterson great stuff Fox Sports. Also today, Rik Buker
Stu Holden stops. But I gotta tell you something that
that that United States men's national team for match losing
streak and Christian Holistic not joining the team. So I'm
on team Polistic on this one. He's the world he's
our best player, and I think the signal he is
(18:08):
sending is World Cup is won. Being a star and
being paid eight figures annually is two, and all the
other stuff like the Gold Cup, that's a distant third.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And I think he's right.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I think as are American soccer players have elevated to
the point of starring in Europe country first, cash second,
all the regional tournaments distant third. So I support it.
Alexi Lawless does it. We'll talk to Stuholden next hour.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It's the Herd.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
One more Herd. The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search Herd
to listen live or on demand whenever you like.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The night is big could be historic.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Teams that go ahead three games to one and the
history of the NBA are thirty seven and one in
the finals. Okay, so Indiana's fourth quarter supremacy. Okay see
starts fast, Indy finishes strong. It's at Indy. Okay see look,
(19:23):
gas didn't get a lot of time to rest. Indy
is great at home. Okasee is very vulnerable at home.
Ok C needs the whistle. When they get the whistle.
When SGA gets to the free throw line more than
eight times, they're nine and two. If not, they're a
five hundred team. Jmack with the news.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
No, no, turn on the news.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is the herd Line news.
Speaker 8 (19:48):
You've heard of the Merchant of Venice, the Merchant of Oklahoma.
Speaker 9 (19:52):
That's going to be the new one when they win
the title. All right, con let's get started here with
my main man, J. J. McCarthy.
Speaker 8 (19:58):
Now, I came on filling in for you weeks ago
and really gasped up the vikings. I liked him, and
you came on this week and hammered the vikings and
JJ McCarthy, well, the Minnesota media take took note and
asked JJ McCarthy yesterday about the narrative of his allegedly
weak arm strength.
Speaker 10 (20:17):
I would say, you know, a lot of it just
comes with the stigma of plant Michigan and you know,
not throwing the ball a lot. But at the same time,
you know it could be my frame. And you know,
they don't see a six five two forty guy, So
how can you throw at sixty one miles an hour
at the combine and all that. But at the end
of the day, you know it's gonna show up, and
you know the people that know know, and uh yeah,
(20:39):
I think it's just you know, the situations I've been
in and maybe you know, not passing the eye test
for some people.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Now, first of all, the word I use to describe
his arm strength was modest. His arm is He's got
a modest arm. It's okay, it's it's Kirk Cousin's ish.
It's not a bad arm. He didn't have a noodle arm.
Speaker 8 (21:00):
Time out.
Speaker 9 (21:00):
Let me just interject with a fact.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
At the combine he had the second highest velocity on
his throat sixty one miles an hour, behind only your
immortal hero Joe Milton. Remember with the Patriots, Now I
believe with the Cowboys, So carry on, Kerry.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Again.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
His arm is fine. Do I think it's Alan Mahomes Stafford?
Do I think it's No, I don't. I think it's
It'll be somewhere between, you know, twelfth and seventeenth in
the It'll be. It'll be fine. He's got a fine
I watched them at Michigan. His arm is okay. His
arm ischiandor Sanders. It won't be an issue, it won't
be a strainth it's fine.
Speaker 9 (21:39):
I would push back on that, but let me move
on to the next element of this. JJ McCarthy. So
obviously the media was really excited about this. I'm not kidding.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
They took your word and were grilling McCarthy. Do you
think honestly he turned the hat backwards because he knows
that's the thing. You go like, I'm being dead serious, Colin.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
No, I don't think he's aware of that.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
Lot of people people are.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
This is like a running joke among players, the hat backwards.
Speaker 9 (22:05):
It's a real thing.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You may well know.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I have had the lecture a handful of players through
the years. When I see them in person, I've told
them I don't like it. I told bow Nicks don't
do that. But nobody listens to me, And I think, again,
I don't know what I said this yesterday. I like
mystery with my true crime series, not with my quarterbacks.
I just like to I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports.
(22:32):
Much like Snor Sanders, he got a great landing spot,
justin Jefferson a great left tackle, and Kevin O'Connell, and
just like Cleveland Kevin Stefanski.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Like that helps? So do I think that helps?
Speaker 10 (22:47):
So?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I think it's harder to be Caleb Williams with Matt
eber Fluse than JJ McCarthy or bow Nix to get
an offensive coach that I think that's about fifty percent
of the game for these young quarterbacks. It's who do
you land with chaos or an offensive guy. So I'm
just I'm not saying it's not gonna work. I just
I see mystery. His arm is modest, But you.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Should have seen Patrick Mahomes getting the gifted landing spot
of Andy Reid. And oh, by the way, that guy,
I believe his name was Tyreek Hill, who was an
electrifying game breaking receiver at the time. So you know, Mahomes,
he got it better than JJ McCarthy's got it. And
he got to sit for a year behind Alex Smith.
That's about as good as he gets. Let's get to
the next story, and that's the forty nine ers Colin.
Speaker 9 (23:29):
Big off season.
Speaker 8 (23:30):
For them on the defensive side of the football, and
they made some offensive moves as well. They do retain
the core of Perdy, Kittle and Warner, not to mention
McCaffrey coming off of six and eleven season. Steve Young
loves how the front office handle things.
Speaker 11 (23:45):
I'm very happy with how they handled the off season.
Had a clear plan. It was a plan that was
it was retooling. It wasn't a complete restructure. Now what
has to happen is your veterans need to stay healthy.
Trent Williams number.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
One, that's exactly He is exactly right the story for
the Niners because you've lost two very good defensive players
in the linebacking unit and the safety spot. Trent Williams
is the key. Dbo's gone. Now, cross your fingers on
Ayuk's health. It's and by the way, cross your fingers
(24:22):
on Christian McCaffrey's health. He's got a lot of carries
and Trent Williams. That's the key to this whole. You know,
I've told you before. Take Brock pretty out of it.
When Christian McCaffrey doesn't play, Shanahan's record is under five hundred.
Forget Brock. When Christian doesn't play, they.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Don't win as much. Do you think he's gonna play
seventeen games. I don't.
Speaker 9 (24:46):
I don't want to playing seventeen games. Take some weeks off.
Speaker 8 (24:49):
When you're you know, twelve and three in coasting to
the number one seed in the NFC final story Collin
is to the NBA.
Speaker 9 (24:55):
Now this is interesting.
Speaker 8 (24:57):
We get a slow drip almost daily of Yiannis crumbs
coming out of Milwaukee. The latest, which I think is
total boulder dash. Milwaukee allegedly is is pitching Yannis on Hey, hey,
you can have the ball in your hands more next
season if you stay. And here's a problem.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
He led the.
Speaker 8 (25:17):
League in usage this past season, Like, what the hell
are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Bucks?
Speaker 8 (25:22):
Then that's why I just don't believe this crap. And
a lot of those guys are point guards or guards
that are heavy with the ball. Gianni's is a big con.
I just don't get it. He was second in touches
per game behind Dame on his team, so he's getting
the ball a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And I don't want him with a ball which two
minutes left because he's not a good free throw shooter.
So's if that's the pitch. If that's your pitch, it's
not much of a pitch. I've said this. You got
a title with Luel Sinder at the time you got
a title with Yannis. A lot of these small markets,
(26:02):
I mean, if you look at dynasties the history Boston,
San Francisco, Los Angeles, multiple times, Chicago players more attracted
to those areas. A lot of the small markets that win,
they get one. A majority of the small markets who
are really good don't even get one. You got one,
pat yourself on the bet you got one. You can
(26:25):
get four firsts. I mean if you go to if
you going to Houston, you could get Sheng Goon another
starter and three first minimum in an era over the
next ten years where draft picks are going to be
better players because college basketball, due to the NIL, is
retaining more of its top players and stealing more of
(26:47):
Europe's top young players. So like to me, draft picks
are better going forward than they have in the previous
ten to fifteen years. So I mean to me this
fear sometimes of small markets of oh, we're losing our star.
Oklahoma City, Westbrook hardened, Kevin Durant left. They're back in
(27:07):
the finals because they came to terms with some guys
aren't happy. What we're not gonna do is bottom out.
And I think Milwaukee's closer to bottoming out even with Giannis.
Speaker 9 (27:18):
Than being grey.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Now do what Boston did. Danny Ainge rebuilt the Celtics.
They were still viable. Milwaukee's not a viable team right.
Speaker 8 (27:27):
Now, Colin, just to hammer home your point, listen, I
get it. Milwaukee was excited that Janis, who was taking
what thirteenth overall, became a star.
Speaker 9 (27:35):
Like a global ambassador. But fans need to realize, like.
Speaker 8 (27:39):
Hey, man, we drafted you.
Speaker 9 (27:41):
You played here for eight nine years.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
If you want to go somewhere else, that's your prerogative.
Speaker 9 (27:46):
You can do that. I hate this idea that fans.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
Think, hey, we drafted that guy, he's ours forever.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
That's not how life works.
Speaker 8 (27:52):
If Jannis wants to go see the world or America,
let him do it. This idea, if he asked for
a trading and people blast him and rip.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Him, listen, I'm just I'm gonna hate that.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Man.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Ninety percent of even great pro athletes do not do
a Kobe or a Jeter or an l way. It
doesn't work that way, especially in the mobility of society.
So I don't know how many years Jiannis is beginning
to end been in Milwaukee's over ten years.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Right from the.
Speaker 9 (28:18):
Dad and Lebron with Okay, you've got.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Division titles, you've got conference champions, you've got a ring.
Now go get four draft picks. Shen Goon an All
Star center another starter rebuild. I love, by the way,
one of the fun parts about being a sports fan.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Is the growth, the rebuild.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I mean, you don't think these okay See fan've been
selling out every game for like five years. These Okase fans,
they love this. All these guys are young. That's part
of what's great about basketball or football is the rebuild. Now,
you can do it faster in football than basketball. But
I mean, how exciting would it be if you're tomorrow?
I tell you the Bucks have four first rounders, an
(29:03):
all star center from Houston, another center that's not exciting,
and you gotta girl with the team.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
J mckle the news, Well that's the news, and thanks
for stopping by the Herd Line Newsian.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
It's been there twelve years.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Rick Buker thoughts on tonight, Indiana wins tonight, they're winning
the championship. They're winning the championship thirty seven and one.
If you take a three games to one lead, it
is there isn't outside of Indiana. There's not a GM,
a coach or a player that would have pick the Pacers.
This is crazy and we may see some history. Rick Bucher.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
Weekdays and Noone Eastern nin am Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 12 (29:50):
Hey, we're Cavino and Rich Fox Sports Radio every day
five to seven pm Eastern.
Speaker 13 (29:55):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 12 (29:56):
We never have enough time to get to everything we
want to get.
Speaker 13 (29:58):
To and that's why we have a brand new podcast
called over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun
in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly,
because this guy is over promising things we never have
time for.
Speaker 9 (30:11):
Yeah, you blubber lit me.
Speaker 12 (30:13):
Well, you know what it's called over promise. You should
be good at it because you've been over promising women
for years.
Speaker 13 (30:17):
Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show, and we
want you to be a part of it. We're gonna
be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk
life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing
about something or we didn't have enough time, it will
continue on our after show called over Promised.
Speaker 12 (30:31):
Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make
sure you check out over Promised and also Uncensored, by
the way, so maybe we'll go at it even.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
A little harder.
Speaker 12 (30:39):
It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.
Speaker 13 (30:41):
There you go over promising and remember you could see
it on YouTube, but definitely join us listen over Promised
with Covino and Rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Well tonight, everything is on the line. I said this
a couple of days ago. Here's the bad news for OKC.
They're a young team and all the pressures on them.
I mean it feels like Indy's been playing with house
money since Milwaukee. So the younger team is on the
road where they're not nearly as good and all the
(31:16):
pressures on them to win because of the favorite ow
and by the way they've struggled in the fourth quarter,
and I would argue the best playoff fourth quarter team
is Indiana in the playoffs. There are a lot of things,
and I had said this before the series. A favorite,
They're very rarely in my life has a favorite to
(31:36):
win the NBA Championship in the finals, been one of
the younger teams. How young players react to trying to
clinch this series even if they're the better team, and
right now I'm not sure they're the better team. Rick
Buker is joining US Live You and I were talking
during the break. There's I think Indiana knew kind of
what they were getting, this ten deep, defensive rush, dominant score.
(32:00):
I don't know if OKC thought Benedict Mathern was this
good and TJ McConnell was this irritating. I feel like
you have these two ascending young players and they're creating
havoc and OKAC has been dislodged a little bit.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And that's my take. This Matherin kid.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I mean, I said the other day, there's a little
Westbrook here, like his energy.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
You loved him out of college.
Speaker 14 (32:26):
Yes, yes, I know. I loved him when he got drafted.
I loved his attitude coming out, was fearless, and I
believe that he could be this kind of guy. He
needed to pull it back a little bit and become
a little more efficient, but he has done that and
he has been a difference maker.
Speaker 9 (32:42):
Oka See.
Speaker 14 (32:43):
I believe knew what they were going to be facing
when it came to Indiana. I think the rest of
the world did not has not appreciated what the Pacers
have had and how perfectly constructed they are to create
problems for OKC, and that we think okay See of
having the depth and versatility, and they had that, but
(33:06):
so does Indiana and they also and this may be
the biggest difference they have in Rick Carlisle, a guy
who's already won a championship, manipulating an underdog roster and
winning a title. He's been to the playoffs sixteen times.
He's won a championship with a team under similar circumstances.
(33:28):
Mark Dagnall is a fifth year head coach making his
second appearance in the final in the playoffs and has
never been to the finals before, and so he's having
to react and CounterPunch with a guy who just understands
this platform and what he's doing on a far higher level.
And I think that that's why you're seeing Rick Carlile
(33:50):
do something very unorthodox. He's playing a nine man rotation.
You had nine guys in Game three play play fifteen
minutes or more for the Indiana Pacers. Oklahoma City Thunder
went with the traditional seven seven man rotation, and you
saw them gassed and exhausted.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
The Pacers pressed.
Speaker 14 (34:13):
Them ninety four feet for forty eight minutes. He where
Carlisle decided, you know what, I don't know if my
stars are as great as their stars, But I believe
that I'm more versatile, and I'm going to test the endurance.
I'm going to make this a war of attrition because
that's the one thing that I have is I believe
(34:35):
that I have more players that I can play more
minutes than OKC can. They've got to rely on their stars,
Jalen Williams and SGA to drive the bus on everything.
I've got a Benedict Mathern coming off the bench and
a TJ. McConnell who can go get their own buckets,
and I can give Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam some
(34:57):
rest so that when we do get to the fourth quarter,
all my bodies are fresh.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You know, with the new aprons and the CBA, you
can't stack rosters anymore. Looston was the last one to
have like a little bit of a stack roster.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I would argue that point guard.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I mean, when I was a kid growing up, centers
one titles, then it was Jordan and Kobe, it was wings.
I think we can make an argument that point guards,
efficient point guards that can score and elevate could be
the next ten years. You can't stack rosters, so what
you have to do is get a player that can
elevate others and make B guys B plus B plus
(35:38):
guys A minus. I think Halliburton could be the model.
Maybe I'm being hyperbolic here, but all these Aprons, we're
done with stacking. It's over. You can't do that. And
I look at Halliburton, I'm like, that is the ideal
player for Adam Silver's new NBA, Is it not.
Speaker 14 (35:57):
I believe that whether it's a point guard or a
point forward, but having a playmaker or multiple playmakers is
the answer.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Because one of.
Speaker 14 (36:06):
The things that makes Indiana again so challenging is that
it's not just Haliburton, but Andrew Nemhart handles the ball
and initiates the offense as much as Halliburton does. They've
got multiple TJ. McConnell coming off the bench. You have
multiple guys who wouldn't be described as great but just
very good. And they have eight to nine players as
(36:31):
a result that can feed off of those playmakers and
are not going to cost you the same as having
like the Phoenix Suns with Bradley Beal and Devin Booker
and Kevin Durant. I don't believe that the big three
model has worked for the last four or five years.
If you really break down the teams that have won championships,
(36:52):
but having playmakers who can make lesser players better and
scorers and guys who don't necessarily I really have to score,
who can just create for others. I do believe that
that's the secret sauce and having depth and versatility and
spreading the wealth literally in terms of how you spend
your money is the future of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So listen, Katie is easier to trade for than Yannis
because you don't have to give up as much draft capital.
And I've made this argument, Rick, I think over the
next ten to fifteen years, we're going to go back
to the old the Tim Duncan era, the Christian the
Grant Hill era, where college players are on a percentage
basis going to be safer picks because more players because
(37:36):
of NIL are staying for another year in college and
the NIL is cherry picking many of the top European players.
Illinois is going to have five Europeans international starters. So
college basketball went through about a twenty year run where
the player of the year at Doug McDermott or a
Tyler Hansborough is a rotational NBA guy, And I think
two years ago that Ucon team that won is the
(37:58):
beginning of the next decade of If you got six
NBA guys, these guys are going to come in and
be able to play. So I think draft picks will
mean more going forward. So I don't want to give
him up. You don't have to give up much for KD.
Is there is there a fit that you I don't
think it works in San Antonio, But is there a
fit to you where he really works and a team
(38:18):
has the capital to get him?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Boy, that's a tough question.
Speaker 14 (38:22):
I would say no, not necessarily because the first teams
that come to mind are Minnesota and New York in
terms of a place where he could go and would
be playing for a title and potentially make a difference.
But you're going to have to give up. Even if
you're not giving up draft capital, you still have to
give up players from your rotation. And can KD at
(38:46):
this stage of his career be a big enough factor
to make up for the players that you have to
give up. People seem to forget that when he went
to the Golden State Warriors. Yes, they let Harrison Barnes go,
but for the most part, it was because there was
this big bonanza of TV money that came in that
(39:08):
they could sign him as a free agent, and at
that point KD still had the wherewithal to become their
best rebounder, to be a shot blocker, to be a
defensive presence, and at the same time be their leading
scorer or have an impact offensively. I just don't know
that he has the game at this point, and the
(39:30):
teams that would be looking to acquire him have the
wherewithal to make a deal that's not going to undercut
them overall. They're not just adding KD to what they have.
They're going to have to give up pieces of some
magnitude contract wise in order to acquire him.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Finally, tonight, J Mack has been very very good picking
the Pacers. He liked him against Cleveland. I've been more
reluct but I think they have so many levers they
can pull in. Carlisle so good at it. I think
I like Indiana tonight as well.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
What do you say.
Speaker 14 (40:09):
I don't see Indiana losing another home game, and so
that includes tonight. In fact, I would expect that this
Tonight's game may not be as dramatic as the last one.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Wow.
Speaker 14 (40:22):
I just think Indiana has found the formula. If they
take care of the ball, they're going to be good.
And I just I don't know what Mark Dagnell goes to,
especially forty eight hours after Wednesday's game where clearly Sga,
Jalen Williams and Cheded Holmgren ran out of gas at
the end. I expect that the Carlisle is going to
(40:44):
come with the exact same game plan. And I don't
really see a CounterPunch for OKC unless unless Ali Caruso
has the kind of game that he had in game two.
But they're going to have to win the bench battle,
(41:05):
and I don't know that I see the role players
for OKASE doing that on Indiana's home floor.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
You know, that's a great that's a great point, and
we've talked about this for years. Role players and bench
players you get a huge there's a big delta in
their performance based on where they their stars are. Your stars, ye,
Shaq and Kobe were good everywhere, but your role players
and your bench guys can be phenomenal. I mean a
second quarter for Indiana's bench was it was I don't
(41:31):
remember a playoff finals game, I was like, the bench
is winning the game.
Speaker 14 (41:35):
Bennettic Matherin was their leading scorer off the bench, and
he didn't play in the first quarter at all, and
Carlisle went to his bench four and a half minutes
into the game. That's the formula is, I'm going to
play more guys than you play, and I'm going to
trust them to get the job done because I don't
have to rely. I mean, if you look at the
way the series is gone, and Haliburton hit the game
(41:58):
winner in Game one, but by and large, it's not
like Siakam and Halliburton have carried this team to these
two wins. It has been as much benedictte Matherin and
Andrew Nemhart and Miles Turner and Obi Toppen all coming
to the table and providing something.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Rick Buker as always, buddy, have a great weekend, enjoyed.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Tonight, Happy Father's Day. Yeah that Benedict Matherin.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
You guys were all giving me crap when I said
he's got a little Westbrook played in the PAC twelve
most athletic guy in his roster. He's a most athletic pacer,
insanely confident, a little loose, a little loose. There are
moments you're like, slow it down, but I don't know, man,
(42:44):
this kid is and plays bigger than his size. That
is Westbrook. Westbrook was super athletic, incredibly confident, ridiculous energy,
plays bigger than his size, and sometimes you're like, slow
it down, turn the governor on just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
You're going a little hot. This kid is. I'm gonna
stick with it. I don't care what you say. I think.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think he's got a little He may not be
as good as Westbrook all time. Westbrook's gonna be a
Hall of Famer, but the kid is jumps off the
TV screen power three necks,
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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