November 27, 2024 • 31 mins
Greg Cosell joins The Herd to talk about Caleb Williams, what the Vikings are doing to make Sam Darnold so good, the Dolphins winning streak and more
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Go to Genesis dot com. Check out the Genesis GV
seventy athletic lines coop like profile, but an artfully crafted
SUV drive one Today, Greg Cosel forty five years NFL
Films now joining us live. All right, I want to start.
I mean, we do this every week and we just
go back and forth. But he's also gotten now a
new coach, new confidence. I thought Caleb looked good. I
(00:47):
thought Keenan Allen became his primary target, which I love
when young quarterbacks Bownicks, Courtland Sutton, Jaden Daniels, Terry McLaurin.
I like when Caleb like designates, Okay, I'm going to
Keenan Allen, this is what I'm working on. It felt
like that. What did the tape say? Forty five years
at NFL Films? What did the tape say on Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, I thought he looked really good, and there was
one thing that really stood out, and I think that's
essential to be a really high level quarterback in this league,
particularly as a passer, and that was his willingness and
ability to make tight window throws between the numbers and
between the hashes against zone defense. And the thing that's
(01:27):
so impressive about that is he saw those throws as
viable throws, as throws that he was willing to make.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
And there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Quarterbacks that are good quarterbacks in this league that don't
necessarily see those throws as viable throws.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
We know he can run around and make plays.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Of course, everybody focused on that pass to swift when
he ran to his right, and he'll make those kinds
of plays, but that won't make him a great quarterback.
So I was really impressed just with the confidence, the
willingness he showed to make difficult, tight window throws between
the numbers in between the hashes.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Let's stay in that game and stay in the NFC North,
because Minnesota now is a real thing. This is nine
and two. You know, we all kept waiting for the
bubble to burst. What are they doing to get the
best out of Sam Darnold, because that's what I'm seeing
the best Sam by a long shot.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Oh yeah, Well, it all comes down to how you
structure your pass game, the route concepts, the route combinations,
how you present them to the quarterback, particularly against zone coverage.
Man to man obviously is a different animal, because then
you can pick out who you want to throw to.
But when you're playing against zone coverage, it's the route
concepts and the combinations that become so important, and how
(02:40):
you present that to the quarterback to read them based
on anticipated zone concepts, and they and you know, Kevin
O'Connell does such a good job with that, and they
have such good concepts.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Where they overload zones.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
They put corners and safeties in conflict because they're not
just going to stand there corners and safeties. They have
to act to routes, so they put them in conflict
with the nature of routes. And Donald's reading this really clearly.
You've always watched Donald Collin. I don't think we've ever
seen him throw the ball this confidently from the pocket
in the NFL where he feels really comfortable in what
(03:15):
he's seeing and who he's throwing it.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
To Okay, now tomorrow Green Bay Miami late game, fascinating
warm weather. Miami and Tua have struggled up Norse. Now
let's start with the Dolphins, who have played very good
football for several weeks, sort of started that loss to
output Buffalo. So what are they doing? Why is their
offense just more viable as they ran the Patriots off
(03:40):
the field?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, I think it goes back to when TWA plays,
even going back to last year when he led the
NFL in passing yards.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
They use motion and more than any team in the league.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
There's more movement before the snap of the ball in
their offense than any other team in the league. And
Mike Daniel does such a great job in terms of
moving defenders with his motion. So he expands the defense,
he widens the defense, he creates windows, and there's no
better window thrower in the NFL than two in terms
(04:12):
of throwing with timing and anticipation. I mean, I could
tell you watching tape there's so many times where he's
starting his delivery when I watch a play from the
end zone camera and the receivers not even in the screen.
Yet He's just so good at that, and they do
such a great job of creating just enough space in
those windows for him. I mean last week, for instance,
(04:32):
they obviously felt that the Patriots could not stop the
pass because in the first half, when they built I
believe a twenty four to zering lead, they had thirty
seven called plays, twenty seven called passes, and only ten
called runs. So they obviously felt that they could throw
the ball against the Patriots, and they did.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
But Tuas looked really good. He's been really sharp.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
The ball comes out of his hand, he's taking short
passes quicker if he doesn't feel like he has a throw.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's just been a very, very efficient.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So it's interesting. I like Aaron Jones, but Josh Jacobs
to me feels like more of the classic workhorse. You
can give him twenty carries. Ye, He's just they're not
many backs like that. He is now one of them,
are the Packers when you watch film because Jordan Love
I like him, but he can be reckless. Are they
better suited, yes, to be a power run team?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Maybe?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Well, you're right about Jacobs, by the way, Colin, He's
a much more physical runner. He's a power runner. He
moves the pile and they're really good in the run game.
Another team that uses motion really well. You see Jayden
Reid in the backfield, all different kinds of motions. It's
all designed to impact run support, to get second level
defenders to play with their eyes incorrectly. They had forty
(05:45):
two rushes last week. They had twenty two rushes by
backs in the first half last week against the forty
nine ers. So yes, they can run the ball. And
I think the running game as a whole. You know,
there's a number of teams playing really well with the
run game is clearly the foundation. It doesn't mean the
quarterback's not important, but teams are playing much more out
of twelve personnel with two tight ends running the football.
(06:08):
Jacobs is clearly the kind of back that you can
give the ball, as you say, twenty plus times a game.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I want to talk about the Eagles, who since the
bye week have become very efficient, have got a much
greater sort of identity, and now they face Baltimore. Now,
the Ravens defense can be physical, but on the back
end it's susceptible to getting burned. And with aj Brown
and Devonte Smith, this feels like personnel wise, it's a
(06:35):
good matchup for Philly against the Ravens. What do you
expect their offense to do against Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, it's interesting game because Baltimore's strengths on defense, which
is stopping the run, is exactly what Philly's identity is.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Philly has developed a clear identity.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
They're a run first offense and they are a defensive
team now, so that's what they are. They don't really
ask Jalen Hurts in the past game to do an
awful lot, and Hurts his way of playing really fits
what they are.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Because he's kind of risk averse. He doesn't force the ball.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
We know that his legs are a factor both by
design and as a scrambler, and he doesn't turn it over.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So when you can run the.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Ball really well and they wear you down with the
run game, they don't score a lot of points early.
They wear you down and their defense has become really,
really good. But they're playing a team that normally stops
the run very well. So we'll see how Philly chooses
to come out this week.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, I gotta tell you, I loved Arizona against Seattle
off a bye week. They're playing well yeap Seattle fundamentally
took them out of their offense. What did you see
from Kyler Murray? I mean off a bye with that
collection of talent. What did you see from Kyler's performance?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
It wasn't really Kyler.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I mean, I think to me, Kyler is almost the
same every week. He's kind of a maybe yes, maybe
no guy. If he can make some plays outside of structure,
which he can do any given week, then he can
have a big week. But he's going to always be
a little inconsistent as a pocket player because there's just
certain things he can't see. But they got killed with
their offensive line versus the Seahawks D line. London Williams
(08:18):
had as good a game this past week as any
D lineman I've seen this year, and they just dominated,
physically dominated the Cards O line up front. So that
was really to me what the game was about, because
the Cards in some ways are like the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
They have to be able to.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Run the ball, and they could not run the ball
at all, and they gave up on it really early
in a game that was really never out of hand
score wise until what the fourth quarter. They just they
didn't have early success running the ball, and they're oc
just totally abandoned the run game, and they have to
be able to run the ball with Connor and Benson.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
One more Heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
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Speaker 1 (09:03):
It's very rare when you have a quarterback that should
be in the running for the MVP and yet you
can't win games. That's the Cincinnati Bengals the last three weeks.
The last three weeks, they're just humming. What of the move?
Is it the return of T Higgins? What are the
moves they've made offensively? It doesn't seem like anybody matches
up well.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
No, I mean, I think Borrow. You could argue he's
playing the best quarterback in the league. And we know
Burrow is a really good player. He just has such
a really, such a good feel for the pocket. He
understands how to move in the pocket. He understands when
pocket movement is required versus getting out of the pocket.
He's been accurate throwing the football. T Higgins is back now,
(09:45):
so they've got two quality wideouts. Chase is obviously just
really really good. He's a top three receiver.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
In the league.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So you're just dealing with a really efficient pass offense.
And Chase Brown's been running the ball effectively. He gives
them just enough in the run game that it's not
just throwball the entire game. Their defense has really been
poor this year, and it's it's it's made every game
a shootout, and it's just hard to win those games
week in and week out. But Joe Burrow is playing
(10:13):
at a really high level.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I want to I want to end with this. I said,
Daniel Jones will never be a great quarterback, but it
could be the best backup in the league. He just
went to a situation when when your talent is somewhat limited,
you need a better fit. Caleb Williams will be spectacular
and they can't get the coaching right. But when you're
(10:35):
kind of a guy Andy Dalton certainly capable, but you're
not a spectacular you don't you don't erase mistakes of
your coaching staff. Could Daniel Jones go to Minnesota and
could we see how much more of an elevator? And
this is nothing against Davell, but the old line was bad.
They didn't have a number one receiver, they didn't have
(10:56):
a tight end. They let Saquon go, he had nothing
to whether he's not that kind of player. Now he's
got Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, a left tackle, a run
game tight ends. How good can Daniel Jones be with
the right elements, because I've seen Sam Darnold shock most
people in the league.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, I mean my sense with Jones and I've always
felt this and it just never worked with the Giants
for the reasons you just laid out, as I always
felt he could be a good ball distributor in the
right situation, and he needs what you said, which most
quarterbacks do. By the way, there's not twenty quarterbacks in
the league that are transcendent that can just dominate games.
(11:36):
What's going to be really interesting there is the way
Donald's playing.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Let's assume playoffs.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I'd have to believe they think about signing Sam Darnald
and then Daniel Jones comes in.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
What do they do next year? They have JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
But I agree with you about Jones in that I
think with a running game, with a solid old line,
with quality receivers, a system that's really good at presenting
define reads and throws, that he could be an efficient player.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, you could run your offense effectively.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, he's a big kid that moves well. I mean
that that's some of it. We like size, we moves well. Yeah,
he's a little mechanical arm. Yeah, he's a little mechanical.
It's not a pretty The aesthetic isn't great.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
You know, there's just certain guys like Mahomes where it's
just he just flows. It's just you know, he's like water,
he just finds the opening. Daniel's a bit more mechanical.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, mechanical isn't necessarily an issue, depending on what you
mean by that, because you could argue Jared Gof's a
little mechanical too, But uh it you know, when you
have a good system and and a lot of things
and you and you're a really good thrower as god is.
You've been watching him for years, I'm sure since he
was in high school in college.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
I mean, that can all work. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
They say that about Justin Herbert sometimes. That was a
knockout of Oregon. He was a bit mechanical. So to
your point, uh, you know, you get the ball out
caught to the right people in the right spot. It
doesn't matter what you are, you can win a lot
of games doing it that way.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Oh, you're right, that's right, You're exactly right.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Greg co Sell happy Thanksgiving to you and the family.
Greg is always thanks you too. Colin appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Don't forget Jay Max's picture around the corner. But first,
j Mack with the news.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
No.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
News, this is the headline news.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Well start with Jimmy Johnson's take on Travis Hunter. Earlierly
that he's the best player in college football.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
Many would agree Jimmy.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Was talking about both sides of the football. However, there's
an award called the Thorpe Award, given to the best
defensive back in the country. Travis Hunter was not one
of the three finalists. Colin and coach Prime he was
not thrilled.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
How is Travis Hunter snuff by the Jim Thorpe Ward.
You can have my award, you can have it back.
As a matter of fact, I'm gonna give him mine.
I'm using it. Just sit up recollecting dust, so Travis
could have my Thorpe Award. Because if this ain't the
most idiotic thing in college football that he's not a
(14:01):
finalist for the jumped Ope Award. He rarely gets thrown
at He's won a game for tackling for US, and
he's always on point. They just pretty much messed up
all the integrity of the award and he could have mine.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I mean it's it's the college you know. I'll
say this college awards the Heisman's regional. He's the best
player in college football that I would say is the
best best athlete, best player in college.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Football, best athlete, I can give you best player. How
are you how do you quantifying that?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
When I watch him play, he's way faster than everybody else,
So he's he's just got dexterity. He can do different things.
He's just a world class athlete. Everybody. He'd start for
every team in the league, somewhere every team in the NFL,
every single team. And the Shador Sanders isn't starting for
every team. Cam Ward's not starting for every team. Travis
Hunter is the only guy in this draft. I do
think Kelvin Banks, the offensive tackle for Texas, would start
(14:59):
for almost every team. There's a there's Mason Graham, a
defensive tackle for Michigan's. He gonna start for almost every time.
I think he's about seven guys. It would start for
every single team. But Travis is a would be the
best athlete on almost every team he played for.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Immediately.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think he's that good he would he would be
the best.
Speaker 7 (15:17):
Athlete on almost any team in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Derwin James, Irwin James came out of Florida State to
the Chargers. He was the best athlete by far on
the Chargers, and you could argue immediately a top five
athlete in the league. He was that good at that
out of Florida's league. Oh, Irwin James was.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
But come on, we need to pump the brakes on this,
all right.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
I mean, like, obviously a tremendous athlete, yes, but better
than any player in the end, he was the best
athlete right now in the league.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
Where do you even begin?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That's right, That's what I'm saying. Isn't one There isn't
one guy You're like, oh, that's the best athlete.
Speaker 7 (15:54):
But what is what matters most of athlete?
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Like, is it like Sekwon Barkley leaping backwards over someone
to best athlete?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
He's one of the better ones.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
I mean, what about the kid on the Cowboys Turpin,
Who's who is one of the fastest guys in the
NFL's ever seen.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Why.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I think Jalen Johnson for Chicago, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase,
A lot of the perimeter guys could play basketball.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
So basically you're into speed. Okay, I like that's what
you like me because I'm super.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Fund I like speed and length, girth depends. Jalen Carter
is great, but he's not one of the best athletes.
That's what she said.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
Okay, moving on, let's go calling your boy bow Knicks.
How good has bo Knicks been? Oh my gosh. Obviously
we have to give a lot.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
Of credit to Sean Payton and his coaching, but bow
Knicks is giving credit to one guy on the Broncos.
Speaker 7 (16:36):
You wouldn't expect Courtland Sutton.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
He's just reliable.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
He's just always there where you need him, and he's smart,
he's savvy, makes plays when the ball's in the air.
You can trust him because when it's up in the
air to his or nobody, so you know it's not
gonna be a pick. And you know he goes for
two touchdowns. That just kind of speaks for you know
what he means our.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
Team, bon Nicks, your guy, Yeah, you could be honest,
do you text Bo Nicks.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I don't like to bother players during the season. Coaches
all bother He's.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Gonna have a tough assignment Courtland Sutton this weekend Cleveland.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
Denzel Ward. Hello, one of the best athletes in the AFC.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Now that's one of those good He's a great athlete,
He's avoid healthy, He's a great Pickens the Tyreek Hill,
Tyreek Hill, Yeah, Pickens Steelers up there.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
There's a lot of guys. Come on, Kyle Hamilton in
the ring. I mean I could name fifty million.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
Anyways, let's get to the final story. The Kansas City Chiefs.
Uh they were they We have a cool SoundBite here.
So Travis Kelcey was talking about Josh Allen. Remember the
Josh Allen touchdown run to beat the Chiefs. Well, Travis
kelsey won on his podcast and he said he knew
that Josh Allen would go Superman in that exact moment.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Give me, I'm saying, Josh Allen is doing something with
his feet.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair, Josh.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
I mean they were on Quarterback Power they were like, yeah,
Superman's hands, Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
He is great. If you know it, pretty good.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
If you didn't know the results. You were just told
that Mahomes and Josh Allen are both great. That's all
you knew, and you did a redraft. I contend everybody
would take Josh Allen. You didn't know they who once
with wolves. You were just told they both end up
being great. Josh is bigger, stronger, faster.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
That's a good take. Are we sure he's faster than Mahomes.
Mahomes is kind of quick.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
He's got that Dad.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Mod he does.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
But it's interesting because Alan's done it with different offensive coordinators.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
They've had a lot of change there.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Patrick Mahomes has had Andy Reid the whole time. You
know that's interesting. What would like like if you flip
them Mahomes to the Bills and Josh Allen to the Chiefs,
you'd have Josh Allen with super Bowls totally dumb.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Well, I mean Mahomes maybe good enough to get one
in Buffalo. I think Mahomes is better, but I think
Josh is really.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Yeah, Like, I mean, you could do that all day.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Dan.
Speaker 7 (18:57):
Can you imagine Dan Marino with Bill Walsh?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Dan Marino had Don Schulin couldn't win one. Yeah, don't
tell me.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
I don't think as an offensive mind in the billbois
the winningest coach in league history. He is one of
the He's amazing. But I mean Bill Walsh offensive like
Argua with the grand.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Got to one super Bowl with at the time, the
best coach in football. Maybe it's a little on Dan Marino. Well,
I mean, I mean Dan Marino had a little Aaron Rodgers.
He didn't like a lot of motion. He liked to
just walk up to the line, see it and go,
which you know, I guess, Manda Man, that's fine. But
when the league got more into zone, that's a different ballgame.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
This is what I like about our banter, Like I
can basically throw anything at you and you'll have a
take and I'm ready to discuss it with you, Like
the Dan Reno thing just came out or get it.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Oh no, Dan Marino. When the league was all Manda Man,
Dan Marino could. But once the league got into zone,
you need motion, you need things that a quarterback sees.
I've heard this from other people. Marino's a little like
Aaron Rodgers. I don't want any motion. I go to
the line, let me see the defense. Well, Dan Marino
and Aaron Rodgers are Super Bowl Trophy light, whereas Brady
(20:11):
was like motion, give me more motion, Peyton Manning, give
me more motion, Andrew, look, give me more motion. Mahomes,
give me more motion. Marino didn't like all that motion.
He just wanted to walk up and use his arm
and it cost him and Aaron Rodgers, I don't like
a lot of motion and it's costed.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
So how do you handle to go back to Mahomes, Allen,
how do you handle that discussion then, because well, when
Dan was you're essentially saying Josh Allen is better than Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
We say one more, I'm saying traits. I'm saying if
you were told. I mean Josh Allen was viewed when
he got drafted as a top ten quarterback prospect all time,
l Way one, Peyton Manning three or four. He was
viewed as a top ten all time prospect, six six, fast,
huge arm. There was nothing about him, nice kid coach.
(21:00):
I mean, everybody loved everything. He was just a His
accuracy was wild, right, But I mean Mahomes didn't have
a winning record in column.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
He was yeah, losing records. And not to go off
on a tangent, but listening to the Josh Allen rant,
so Justin Herbert is almost the same size as Josh.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Allen, but he's not as fluid an athlete. He's not
as good in that.
Speaker 7 (21:18):
Oh, I don't know, man, Justin Herbert's like a gazelle
in the open field.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
He's not as fluid. He's a little bit.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
Coty times during the commercial break. But and Herbert, A
lot of people accuracy questions.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Nobody. I don't know why Herbert too over Herbert A
lot a lot of a lot of scouts.
Speaker 7 (21:36):
We can roll the tape. You want to go back
to twenty whatever year was.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
I know.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I'm just telling you there's no way you were on tour.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
And I'll never forget. I got to give you credit.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
You watched that or the Rose Bowl and I think
you called me in the fourth quarter and you were like,
holy hell, Justin Herbert, look at this guy. I was like, Yeah,
that's not the Herbert we saw all season. I'll never
forget that call because I was like, this guy could
be something.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
Big in the NFL. That was like the moment that
Rose Bowl game.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
J Stroud against Georgia running in scram It's like I
haven't seen that all year. Jmax picks coming up Jmack
with a news.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The Herd.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Line news all right, his picks.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and Noone Eastern a em Pacific.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Make sure you play this week's Fox Super Six sponsored
by Draft Kings. Go to the Fox Sports app and
enter for a free chance to win cast at prizing.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, this is the time of the week when all
of you, if you have an extra ten dollars, fifteen,
twenty dollars, you should tune in FF one in the
Herd because our your ability, your laser focus, your X
ray vision that can see in the matchup advantages is
something to behold. Are you ready? Certainly we call it
(22:52):
tomorrow's headlines Today. What's going to be the headline? Bears
at the Detroit Lions tomorrow.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
So I thought this was a slam dunk instantly love
one side and Colin within the last hour, I'm look
at this line.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
It's down to nine and a half. Who are these
people betting on.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
The Bears the headline? Well, babe, you ain't seen stuffing yet.
Bears get Cassero. Look, man, Jared Goff, I got a
lot of notes here, Colin, but the number one thing is,
remember the number one seed in the NFC is huge
this year. Detroit indoors or Philadelphia outdoors. I think that
would be a huge advantage for Philly. So Detroit's gotta
(23:30):
keep winning.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
They keep their foot on the gas, you know, something
like the Chiefs.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
They're known to take their foot off the gas, maybe
run a little more. Detroit they don't hold back. They're
putting fifty burgers on you. And I do believe that
there is something to this whole man. Dan Campbell and
Jared Goff haven't won together on Thanksgiving. Goff looking for
redemption after last year's game against the Packers, and I
think they kind of put it on Caleb Williams here.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Now.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
One interesting slow pot is Caleb Williams has done great
against zone defense this year against man much. I'm sorry thepposite.
He's dominated man struggled against zone.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Well.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
The Lions are tinkering.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
They've been switching since Aiden Hutchison, so I think they'll
be a little surprised for Caleb Williams.
Speaker 7 (24:08):
Is it gonna be man? Are they gonna do zone?
Speaker 6 (24:10):
And I think Detroit kind of hammers him here. I
think they lower the boom thirty five thirteen ish Lions.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I don't disagree tomorrow's headlines today golf fans at the
green Bay Packers hmmm.
Speaker 7 (24:23):
Yeah, cold weather, check outdoors check.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
Things are lining up for one side, the headline will
be paceroni and cheese fins, just.
Speaker 7 (24:34):
A side dish. I listen. I know everybody thinks, oh,
green Bay is gonna walk over this. This could be.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
Competitive green Bay has They have not been the team
we thought they'd beat, right, We thought maybe Super Bowl
sleeper from the Packers, and they kind of just slept
walk through the season, up and down a little bit.
But Miami has turned it around the last three weeks
since TWOA got back.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Let's let's go over them.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
They beat the Rams out here in LA. That was
a mysterious game. The Rams were just clunky. And then
they beat the Raiders and they beat the Patriots. So
they're beating a couple bad teams in the Rams are
under five hundred. So is that that impressive from Miami?
I think Green Bay is in a spot where they think,
maybe if the Lions slip up, could we catch them.
Speaker 7 (25:13):
And that's why, compounded with the weather and to his
struggles in cold that we know.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
I like the Packers here now it's three, but at
three and a half, I don't know that hook is dangerous,
but we both I think the Packers Jordan Love remember
pop last year on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 7 (25:27):
Now this is a night game and probably what thirty
million people watching Jordan Love. I think he's back. Baby.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Tomorrow's headlines today Raiders Chiefs, Raiders kind of look beat
up and exhausted and not ready to compete.
Speaker 6 (25:42):
My worst pick of the year last year was the
Chiefs on Christmas Day against the Raiders, where the Raiders
beat them.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
Let's see what happens on Black Friday.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
The headline will be Sack Friday sales, Raiders flattened when
doors open. The Raiders just announced here in the last
ten minutes that Aiden O'Connell will be starting the mighty
eight and O'Connell coming off the injury, he's gonna be starting.
Speaker 7 (26:03):
And I checked the temperatures were in the thirties on
Black Friday. Ag Aid and O'Connell going outdoor.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
In mobile Aidan O'Connell yes, And Kansas City gets back
My main man, Isaiah Pacheco, one of my favorite running
backs in the league. Colin Listen, he has another dimension
to this offense because he catches passes out of the backfield.
Speaker 7 (26:21):
Uh Kareem Hunt.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
He was okay at that, but he's a little older.
I just I don't see it what the Raiders are starting.
I think a mere Abdullah what is he like? Thirty
seven at running back? Not a lot of options for
the Raiders.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
I like the Chiefs here big.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
This is an interesting one. Next tomorrow's headlines today Seattle
look great. Now they go to Aaron and the Jets,
who are swimming in nonsense. Yeah, what say you? It's
Toddy Fox.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
I noticed you kind of laid off a little bit
of the Aaron Rodgers because there's a lot of noise
this week.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
It's almost like you're over it. You're kind of sick
of them.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
The headline will be cran buried Jets get lost in
the sauce. Listen, I'll the Jets guy. You guys know that.
I think this is the first time I've picked against them.
Maybe all season you followed this story. Aaron Rodgers just
keeps talking. This is the guy who in the offseason
was like, hey, we just go we want to keep
it on football. Keep that crap out of the building.
(27:13):
He's going interviews all the time. Well, I don't know
if I'm gonna play next year. If I do play, it's.
Speaker 7 (27:18):
Probably with the Jet.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
This is all we've heard for the Jets in the
last two weeks, and it's like, dude, what are we
doing here? The defense is clearly quit on Olbreck. They're
not really tackling well. And now you got a Seahawks
team that's starting to peak. They put Arizona down pretty
well last week after the win over sanfran and I
talked about it. They're going with the single high safety,
taking away the run, you take away Breese Hall, and
(27:41):
now Aaron Rodgers has to beat those tough corners Witherspoon
and the other guy whose name I'm spacing on, who's incredible.
Speaker 7 (27:48):
I don't see how the Jets compete here.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Would not surprise me if this were twenty eight eleven
and the Jets got embarrassed and Aaron ro You know,
the stuff swirling around Rogers is not good Colin. I
think the Seahawks live to win that NFC West Division.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Finally, Tomorrow's headlines today Texans Jaguars in Jyville. This screams
J Max. You love those AFC South NFC South battle.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
I also enjoy you enjoy our discussions about who's the
next Jaguars coach.
Speaker 7 (28:18):
That's fun.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
But for this one, the headline will be happy tanksgiving
Jack's grateful for picks. Yeah, I'm on Houston here. Houston
has lost three or four. They did beat Dallas. Yeah,
but and I noted it last week when I liked
the Titans. So they had three prime time games in
a row. It was the Jets, the Lions, and the Cowboy.
It's a lot of primetime games are totally different than
Sunday one pm. So then it was a little come
(28:41):
down for the Titans. I see a big bounce back here.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So CJ.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Stroud will absolutely eviscerate zone defenses. Yes, And in the
earlier meeting against Jacksonville three hundred and forty five yards
passing two touchdowns, he didn't have Mixon. Mixon's now back,
and Mixon's off his worst game of the season twenty
two yards against the Titans.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
We know Stroud's offensive line's been bad. Calin I looked him.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Look at pressure rates. Jaggs ranked thirty first in the
league in pressure rate. They do not get at the quarterbacks.
Stroud's gonna have a clean pocket, Laramie Tunzel, no penalties.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
I think Houston says, guys, guys, we're not bad.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
We are a team. We can get this going. And
I think the Texans kind of clawback and beat down.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Ye a bat that was my second favorite pick on
the board.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Well, Trevor Lawrence, it looks like he may go.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
He's touching it.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
Well, we'll see.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
They haven't announced it officially. That would be a big
get back. But why would they play him if he's
hurt and they're.
Speaker 7 (29:33):
Trying to tank?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Listen to this. Brock Purty of the Niners limited at
practice today, Nick Bosa, Trent Williams did not practice.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
I had to leave the bills out the bills. They're
going to crush the forty nine ers here. You know,
San Franz spirits are.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Down well and Brock party now limited. It practice a
shoulder issue for a guy that didn't have a big
arm to begin with. Now he's got a throwing shoulder.
Speaker 6 (29:59):
He's shoe months away from adding a massive contract. Color
is he risking that shoulder like a further injury surgery?
He's not getting paid.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
If you're paying big money, is that your thing?
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Well, I mean I'm not gonna pay a big money
I think we could talk him into a Baker Mayfield
ish type contract. I don't know if he would like that,
but hey, Brock, do you want to have Debo and
Kittle uh and.
Speaker 7 (30:16):
A market Huh?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
What's the market for him?
Speaker 7 (30:19):
If they drop Perty?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
What's the market?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
I mean it's it's more robust than Sam Donald, that's
for sure.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
No.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Oh, come on, Sam's bigger, stronger athlete.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Better.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
We have like five years of Sam Darnald.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
He's that one good year with Kevin O'Connor, rock Perty
genius with Kyle Shannon small hurt again, you're just obsessed
with like can you guy throw the football out of
the stadium?
Speaker 1 (30:44):
That's like here, Well, I like Brock, but you have
you have categorized him into the Lamar to two years
of you saying Josh mahomes purty MVP, he's not that well.
Speaker 7 (30:58):
The numbers backed me up.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, but stats lie a lot. There's a lot of stats.
Obviously Darnald is getting Sam like Gardner Minshew with Shane
Steichen and Jonathan Taylor and Michael Pittman. That's not who
he is. He's much closer to the Raiders version. So
you can have the like Sam Darnold right now, is
he this good? Well? History tells you he's got a
perfect two receivers corner, great coach.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
I mean that.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
So if you're the Raiders and you're picking eighth, you
would take Darnald over Purty if they both wanted the
exact same contract.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I think I'd take Donald. I think he's a bigger,
stronger professional athlete for a bigger arm.
Speaker 7 (31:35):
I know a lot of people like him.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I would take Ny, but I'm not outraged by it.
Not outraging you. Don't everybody be safe tonight. It's a
night crazies are out. Moderation, stay home, hang out,
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Go to Genesis dot com. Check out the Genesis GV
seventy athletic lines coop like profile, but an artfully crafted
SUV drive one Today, Greg Cosel forty five years NFL
Films now joining us live. All right, I want to start.
I mean, we do this every week and we just
go back and forth. But he's also gotten now a
new coach, new confidence. I thought Caleb looked good. I
(00:47):
thought Keenan Allen became his primary target, which I love
when young quarterbacks Bownicks, Courtland Sutton, Jaden Daniels, Terry McLaurin.
I like when Caleb like designates, Okay, I'm going to
Keenan Allen, this is what I'm working on. It felt
like that. What did the tape say? Forty five years
at NFL Films? What did the tape say on Caleb Williams.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, I thought he looked really good, and there was
one thing that really stood out, and I think that's
essential to be a really high level quarterback in this league,
particularly as a passer, and that was his willingness and
ability to make tight window throws between the numbers and
between the hashes against zone defense. And the thing that's
(01:27):
so impressive about that is he saw those throws as
viable throws, as throws that he was willing to make.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
And there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Quarterbacks that are good quarterbacks in this league that don't
necessarily see those throws as viable throws.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
We know he can run around and make plays.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Of course, everybody focused on that pass to swift when
he ran to his right, and he'll make those kinds
of plays, but that won't make him a great quarterback.
So I was really impressed just with the confidence, the
willingness he showed to make difficult, tight window throws between
the numbers in between the hashes.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Let's stay in that game and stay in the NFC North,
because Minnesota now is a real thing. This is nine
and two. You know, we all kept waiting for the
bubble to burst. What are they doing to get the
best out of Sam Darnold, because that's what I'm seeing
the best Sam by a long shot.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Oh yeah, Well, it all comes down to how you
structure your pass game, the route concepts, the route combinations,
how you present them to the quarterback, particularly against zone coverage.
Man to man obviously is a different animal, because then
you can pick out who you want to throw to.
But when you're playing against zone coverage, it's the route
concepts and the combinations that become so important, and how
(02:40):
you present that to the quarterback to read them based
on anticipated zone concepts, and they and you know, Kevin
O'Connell does such a good job with that, and they
have such good concepts.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Where they overload zones.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
They put corners and safeties in conflict because they're not
just going to stand there corners and safeties. They have
to act to routes, so they put them in conflict
with the nature of routes. And Donald's reading this really clearly.
You've always watched Donald Collin. I don't think we've ever
seen him throw the ball this confidently from the pocket
in the NFL where he feels really comfortable in what
(03:15):
he's seeing and who he's throwing it.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
To Okay, now tomorrow Green Bay Miami late game, fascinating
warm weather. Miami and Tua have struggled up Norse. Now
let's start with the Dolphins, who have played very good
football for several weeks, sort of started that loss to
output Buffalo. So what are they doing? Why is their
offense just more viable as they ran the Patriots off
(03:40):
the field?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, I think it goes back to when TWA plays,
even going back to last year when he led the
NFL in passing yards.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
They use motion and more than any team in the league.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
There's more movement before the snap of the ball in
their offense than any other team in the league. And
Mike Daniel does such a great job in terms of
moving defenders with his motion. So he expands the defense,
he widens the defense, he creates windows, and there's no
better window thrower in the NFL than two in terms
(04:12):
of throwing with timing and anticipation. I mean, I could
tell you watching tape there's so many times where he's
starting his delivery when I watch a play from the
end zone camera and the receivers not even in the screen.
Yet He's just so good at that, and they do
such a great job of creating just enough space in
those windows for him. I mean last week, for instance,
(04:32):
they obviously felt that the Patriots could not stop the
pass because in the first half, when they built I
believe a twenty four to zering lead, they had thirty
seven called plays, twenty seven called passes, and only ten
called runs. So they obviously felt that they could throw
the ball against the Patriots, and they did.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
But Tuas looked really good. He's been really sharp.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
The ball comes out of his hand, he's taking short
passes quicker if he doesn't feel like he has a throw.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
It's just been a very, very efficient.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So it's interesting. I like Aaron Jones, but Josh Jacobs
to me feels like more of the classic workhorse. You
can give him twenty carries. Ye, He's just they're not
many backs like that. He is now one of them,
are the Packers when you watch film because Jordan Love
I like him, but he can be reckless. Are they
better suited, yes, to be a power run team?
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Maybe?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Well, you're right about Jacobs, by the way, Colin, He's
a much more physical runner. He's a power runner. He
moves the pile and they're really good in the run game.
Another team that uses motion really well. You see Jayden
Reid in the backfield, all different kinds of motions. It's
all designed to impact run support, to get second level
defenders to play with their eyes incorrectly. They had forty
(05:45):
two rushes last week. They had twenty two rushes by
backs in the first half last week against the forty
nine ers. So yes, they can run the ball. And
I think the running game as a whole. You know,
there's a number of teams playing really well with the
run game is clearly the foundation. It doesn't mean the
quarterback's not important, but teams are playing much more out
of twelve personnel with two tight ends running the football.
(06:08):
Jacobs is clearly the kind of back that you can
give the ball, as you say, twenty plus times a game.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I want to talk about the Eagles, who since the
bye week have become very efficient, have got a much
greater sort of identity, and now they face Baltimore. Now,
the Ravens defense can be physical, but on the back
end it's susceptible to getting burned. And with aj Brown
and Devonte Smith, this feels like personnel wise, it's a
(06:35):
good matchup for Philly against the Ravens. What do you
expect their offense to do against Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, it's interesting game because Baltimore's strengths on defense, which
is stopping the run, is exactly what Philly's identity is.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Philly has developed a clear identity.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
They're a run first offense and they are a defensive
team now, so that's what they are. They don't really
ask Jalen Hurts in the past game to do an
awful lot, and Hurts his way of playing really fits
what they are.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Because he's kind of risk averse. He doesn't force the ball.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
We know that his legs are a factor both by
design and as a scrambler, and he doesn't turn it over.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
So when you can run the.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Ball really well and they wear you down with the
run game, they don't score a lot of points early.
They wear you down and their defense has become really,
really good. But they're playing a team that normally stops
the run very well. So we'll see how Philly chooses
to come out this week.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, I gotta tell you, I loved Arizona against Seattle
off a bye week. They're playing well yeap Seattle fundamentally
took them out of their offense. What did you see
from Kyler Murray? I mean off a bye with that
collection of talent. What did you see from Kyler's performance?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
It wasn't really Kyler.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I mean, I think to me, Kyler is almost the
same every week. He's kind of a maybe yes, maybe
no guy. If he can make some plays outside of structure,
which he can do any given week, then he can
have a big week. But he's going to always be
a little inconsistent as a pocket player because there's just
certain things he can't see. But they got killed with
their offensive line versus the Seahawks D line. London Williams
(08:18):
had as good a game this past week as any
D lineman I've seen this year, and they just dominated,
physically dominated the Cards O line up front. So that
was really to me what the game was about, because
the Cards in some ways are like the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
They have to be able to.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Run the ball, and they could not run the ball
at all, and they gave up on it really early
in a game that was really never out of hand
score wise until what the fourth quarter. They just they
didn't have early success running the ball, and they're oc
just totally abandoned the run game, and they have to
be able to run the ball with Connor and Benson.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
One more Heard The Herd streams twenty four hours a day,
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Speaker 1 (09:03):
It's very rare when you have a quarterback that should
be in the running for the MVP and yet you
can't win games. That's the Cincinnati Bengals the last three weeks.
The last three weeks, they're just humming. What of the move?
Is it the return of T Higgins? What are the
moves they've made offensively? It doesn't seem like anybody matches
up well.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
No, I mean, I think Borrow. You could argue he's
playing the best quarterback in the league. And we know
Burrow is a really good player. He just has such
a really, such a good feel for the pocket. He
understands how to move in the pocket. He understands when
pocket movement is required versus getting out of the pocket.
He's been accurate throwing the football. T Higgins is back now,
(09:45):
so they've got two quality wideouts. Chase is obviously just
really really good. He's a top three receiver.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
In the league.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
So you're just dealing with a really efficient pass offense.
And Chase Brown's been running the ball effectively. He gives
them just enough in the run game that it's not
just throwball the entire game. Their defense has really been
poor this year, and it's it's it's made every game
a shootout, and it's just hard to win those games
week in and week out. But Joe Burrow is playing
(10:13):
at a really high level.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I want to I want to end with this. I said,
Daniel Jones will never be a great quarterback, but it
could be the best backup in the league. He just
went to a situation when when your talent is somewhat limited,
you need a better fit. Caleb Williams will be spectacular
and they can't get the coaching right. But when you're
(10:35):
kind of a guy Andy Dalton certainly capable, but you're
not a spectacular you don't you don't erase mistakes of
your coaching staff. Could Daniel Jones go to Minnesota and
could we see how much more of an elevator? And
this is nothing against Davell, but the old line was bad.
They didn't have a number one receiver, they didn't have
(10:56):
a tight end. They let Saquon go, he had nothing
to whether he's not that kind of player. Now he's
got Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, a left tackle, a run
game tight ends. How good can Daniel Jones be with
the right elements, because I've seen Sam Darnold shock most
people in the league.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, I mean my sense with Jones and I've always
felt this and it just never worked with the Giants
for the reasons you just laid out, as I always
felt he could be a good ball distributor in the
right situation, and he needs what you said, which most
quarterbacks do. By the way, there's not twenty quarterbacks in
the league that are transcendent that can just dominate games.
(11:36):
What's going to be really interesting there is the way
Donald's playing.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Let's assume playoffs.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I'd have to believe they think about signing Sam Darnald
and then Daniel Jones comes in.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
What do they do next year? They have JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
But I agree with you about Jones in that I
think with a running game, with a solid old line,
with quality receivers, a system that's really good at presenting
define reads and throws, that he could be an efficient player.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, you could run your offense effectively.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, he's a big kid that moves well. I mean
that that's some of it. We like size, we moves well. Yeah,
he's a little mechanical arm. Yeah, he's a little mechanical.
It's not a pretty The aesthetic isn't great.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
You know, there's just certain guys like Mahomes where it's
just he just flows. It's just you know, he's like water,
he just finds the opening. Daniel's a bit more mechanical.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, mechanical isn't necessarily an issue, depending on what you
mean by that, because you could argue Jared Gof's a
little mechanical too, But uh it you know, when you
have a good system and and a lot of things
and you and you're a really good thrower as god is.
You've been watching him for years, I'm sure since he
was in high school in college.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
I mean, that can all work. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
They say that about Justin Herbert sometimes. That was a
knockout of Oregon. He was a bit mechanical. So to
your point, uh, you know, you get the ball out
caught to the right people in the right spot. It
doesn't matter what you are, you can win a lot
of games doing it that way.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Oh, you're right, that's right, You're exactly right.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Greg co Sell happy Thanksgiving to you and the family.
Greg is always thanks you too. Colin appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Don't forget Jay Max's picture around the corner. But first,
j Mack with the news.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
No.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
News, this is the headline news.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Well start with Jimmy Johnson's take on Travis Hunter. Earlierly
that he's the best player in college football.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
Many would agree Jimmy.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Was talking about both sides of the football. However, there's
an award called the Thorpe Award, given to the best
defensive back in the country. Travis Hunter was not one
of the three finalists. Colin and coach Prime he was
not thrilled.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
How is Travis Hunter snuff by the Jim Thorpe Ward.
You can have my award, you can have it back.
As a matter of fact, I'm gonna give him mine.
I'm using it. Just sit up recollecting dust, so Travis
could have my Thorpe Award. Because if this ain't the
most idiotic thing in college football that he's not a
(14:01):
finalist for the jumped Ope Award. He rarely gets thrown
at He's won a game for tackling for US, and
he's always on point. They just pretty much messed up
all the integrity of the award and he could have mine.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I mean it's it's the college you know. I'll
say this college awards the Heisman's regional. He's the best
player in college football that I would say is the
best best athlete, best player in college.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Football, best athlete, I can give you best player. How
are you how do you quantifying that?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
When I watch him play, he's way faster than everybody else,
So he's he's just got dexterity. He can do different things.
He's just a world class athlete. Everybody. He'd start for
every team in the league, somewhere every team in the NFL,
every single team. And the Shador Sanders isn't starting for
every team. Cam Ward's not starting for every team. Travis
Hunter is the only guy in this draft. I do
think Kelvin Banks, the offensive tackle for Texas, would start
(14:59):
for almost every team. There's a there's Mason Graham, a
defensive tackle for Michigan's. He gonna start for almost every time.
I think he's about seven guys. It would start for
every single team. But Travis is a would be the
best athlete on almost every team he played for.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Immediately.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I think he's that good he would he would be
the best.
Speaker 7 (15:17):
Athlete on almost any team in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Derwin James, Irwin James came out of Florida State to
the Chargers. He was the best athlete by far on
the Chargers, and you could argue immediately a top five
athlete in the league. He was that good at that
out of Florida's league. Oh, Irwin James was.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
But come on, we need to pump the brakes on this,
all right.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
I mean, like, obviously a tremendous athlete, yes, but better
than any player in the end, he was the best
athlete right now in the league.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
Where do you even begin?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That's right, That's what I'm saying. Isn't one There isn't
one guy You're like, oh, that's the best athlete.
Speaker 7 (15:54):
But what is what matters most of athlete?
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Like, is it like Sekwon Barkley leaping backwards over someone
to best athlete?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
He's one of the better ones.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
I mean, what about the kid on the Cowboys Turpin,
Who's who is one of the fastest guys in the
NFL's ever seen.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Why.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I think Jalen Johnson for Chicago, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase,
A lot of the perimeter guys could play basketball.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
So basically you're into speed. Okay, I like that's what
you like me because I'm super.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Fund I like speed and length, girth depends. Jalen Carter
is great, but he's not one of the best athletes.
That's what she said.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
Okay, moving on, let's go calling your boy bow Knicks.
How good has bo Knicks been? Oh my gosh. Obviously
we have to give a lot.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
Of credit to Sean Payton and his coaching, but bow
Knicks is giving credit to one guy on the Broncos.
Speaker 7 (16:36):
You wouldn't expect Courtland Sutton.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
He's just reliable.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
He's just always there where you need him, and he's smart,
he's savvy, makes plays when the ball's in the air.
You can trust him because when it's up in the
air to his or nobody, so you know it's not
gonna be a pick. And you know he goes for
two touchdowns. That just kind of speaks for you know
what he means our.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
Team, bon Nicks, your guy, Yeah, you could be honest,
do you text Bo Nicks.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I don't like to bother players during the season. Coaches
all bother He's.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Gonna have a tough assignment Courtland Sutton this weekend Cleveland.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
Denzel Ward. Hello, one of the best athletes in the AFC.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Now that's one of those good He's a great athlete,
He's avoid healthy, He's a great Pickens the Tyreek Hill,
Tyreek Hill, Yeah, Pickens Steelers up there.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
There's a lot of guys. Come on, Kyle Hamilton in
the ring. I mean I could name fifty million.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
Anyways, let's get to the final story. The Kansas City Chiefs.
Uh they were they We have a cool SoundBite here.
So Travis Kelcey was talking about Josh Allen. Remember the
Josh Allen touchdown run to beat the Chiefs. Well, Travis
kelsey won on his podcast and he said he knew
that Josh Allen would go Superman in that exact moment.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Give me, I'm saying, Josh Allen is doing something with
his feet.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair, Josh.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
I mean they were on Quarterback Power they were like, yeah,
Superman's hands, Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
He is great. If you know it, pretty good.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
If you didn't know the results. You were just told
that Mahomes and Josh Allen are both great. That's all
you knew, and you did a redraft. I contend everybody
would take Josh Allen. You didn't know they who once
with wolves. You were just told they both end up
being great. Josh is bigger, stronger, faster.
Speaker 7 (18:19):
That's a good take. Are we sure he's faster than Mahomes.
Mahomes is kind of quick.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
He's got that Dad.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Mod he does.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
But it's interesting because Alan's done it with different offensive coordinators.
Speaker 7 (18:32):
They've had a lot of change there.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Patrick Mahomes has had Andy Reid the whole time. You
know that's interesting. What would like like if you flip
them Mahomes to the Bills and Josh Allen to the Chiefs,
you'd have Josh Allen with super Bowls totally dumb.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Well, I mean Mahomes maybe good enough to get one
in Buffalo. I think Mahomes is better, but I think
Josh is really.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Yeah, Like, I mean, you could do that all day.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Dan.
Speaker 7 (18:57):
Can you imagine Dan Marino with Bill Walsh?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Dan Marino had Don Schulin couldn't win one. Yeah, don't
tell me.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
I don't think as an offensive mind in the billbois
the winningest coach in league history. He is one of
the He's amazing. But I mean Bill Walsh offensive like
Argua with the grand.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Got to one super Bowl with at the time, the
best coach in football. Maybe it's a little on Dan Marino. Well,
I mean, I mean Dan Marino had a little Aaron Rodgers.
He didn't like a lot of motion. He liked to
just walk up to the line, see it and go,
which you know, I guess, Manda Man, that's fine. But
when the league got more into zone, that's a different ballgame.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
This is what I like about our banter, Like I
can basically throw anything at you and you'll have a
take and I'm ready to discuss it with you, Like
the Dan Reno thing just came out or get it.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Oh no, Dan Marino. When the league was all Manda Man,
Dan Marino could. But once the league got into zone,
you need motion, you need things that a quarterback sees.
I've heard this from other people. Marino's a little like
Aaron Rodgers. I don't want any motion. I go to
the line, let me see the defense. Well, Dan Marino
and Aaron Rodgers are Super Bowl Trophy light, whereas Brady
(20:11):
was like motion, give me more motion, Peyton Manning, give
me more motion, Andrew, look, give me more motion. Mahomes,
give me more motion. Marino didn't like all that motion.
He just wanted to walk up and use his arm
and it cost him and Aaron Rodgers, I don't like
a lot of motion and it's costed.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
So how do you handle to go back to Mahomes, Allen,
how do you handle that discussion then, because well, when
Dan was you're essentially saying Josh Allen is better than Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
We say one more, I'm saying traits. I'm saying if
you were told. I mean Josh Allen was viewed when
he got drafted as a top ten quarterback prospect all time,
l Way one, Peyton Manning three or four. He was
viewed as a top ten all time prospect, six six, fast,
huge arm. There was nothing about him, nice kid coach.
(21:00):
I mean, everybody loved everything. He was just a His
accuracy was wild, right, But I mean Mahomes didn't have
a winning record in column.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
He was yeah, losing records. And not to go off
on a tangent, but listening to the Josh Allen rant,
so Justin Herbert is almost the same size as Josh.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Allen, but he's not as fluid an athlete. He's not
as good in that.
Speaker 7 (21:18):
Oh, I don't know, man, Justin Herbert's like a gazelle
in the open field.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
He's not as fluid. He's a little bit.
Speaker 6 (21:25):
Coty times during the commercial break. But and Herbert, A
lot of people accuracy questions.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Nobody. I don't know why Herbert too over Herbert A
lot a lot of a lot of scouts.
Speaker 7 (21:36):
We can roll the tape. You want to go back
to twenty whatever year was.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
I know.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I'm just telling you there's no way you were on tour.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
And I'll never forget. I got to give you credit.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
You watched that or the Rose Bowl and I think
you called me in the fourth quarter and you were like,
holy hell, Justin Herbert, look at this guy. I was like, Yeah,
that's not the Herbert we saw all season. I'll never
forget that call because I was like, this guy could
be something.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
Big in the NFL. That was like the moment that
Rose Bowl game.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
J Stroud against Georgia running in scram It's like I
haven't seen that all year. Jmax picks coming up Jmack
with a news.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The Herd.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Line news all right, his picks.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and Noone Eastern a em Pacific.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Make sure you play this week's Fox Super Six sponsored
by Draft Kings. Go to the Fox Sports app and
enter for a free chance to win cast at prizing.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, this is the time of the week when all
of you, if you have an extra ten dollars, fifteen,
twenty dollars, you should tune in FF one in the
Herd because our your ability, your laser focus, your X
ray vision that can see in the matchup advantages is
something to behold. Are you ready? Certainly we call it
(22:52):
tomorrow's headlines Today. What's going to be the headline? Bears
at the Detroit Lions tomorrow.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
So I thought this was a slam dunk instantly love
one side and Colin within the last hour, I'm look
at this line.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
It's down to nine and a half. Who are these
people betting on.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
The Bears the headline? Well, babe, you ain't seen stuffing yet.
Bears get Cassero. Look, man, Jared Goff, I got a
lot of notes here, Colin, but the number one thing is,
remember the number one seed in the NFC is huge
this year. Detroit indoors or Philadelphia outdoors. I think that
would be a huge advantage for Philly. So Detroit's gotta
(23:30):
keep winning.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
They keep their foot on the gas, you know, something
like the Chiefs.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
They're known to take their foot off the gas, maybe
run a little more. Detroit they don't hold back. They're
putting fifty burgers on you. And I do believe that
there is something to this whole man. Dan Campbell and
Jared Goff haven't won together on Thanksgiving. Goff looking for
redemption after last year's game against the Packers, and I
think they kind of put it on Caleb Williams here.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Now.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
One interesting slow pot is Caleb Williams has done great
against zone defense this year against man much. I'm sorry thepposite.
He's dominated man struggled against zone.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Well.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
The Lions are tinkering.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
They've been switching since Aiden Hutchison, so I think they'll
be a little surprised for Caleb Williams.
Speaker 7 (24:08):
Is it gonna be man? Are they gonna do zone?
Speaker 6 (24:10):
And I think Detroit kind of hammers him here. I
think they lower the boom thirty five thirteen ish Lions.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I don't disagree tomorrow's headlines today golf fans at the
green Bay Packers hmmm.
Speaker 7 (24:23):
Yeah, cold weather, check outdoors check.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
Things are lining up for one side, the headline will
be paceroni and cheese fins, just.
Speaker 7 (24:34):
A side dish. I listen. I know everybody thinks, oh,
green Bay is gonna walk over this. This could be.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
Competitive green Bay has They have not been the team
we thought they'd beat, right, We thought maybe Super Bowl
sleeper from the Packers, and they kind of just slept
walk through the season, up and down a little bit.
But Miami has turned it around the last three weeks
since TWOA got back.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Let's let's go over them.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
They beat the Rams out here in LA. That was
a mysterious game. The Rams were just clunky. And then
they beat the Raiders and they beat the Patriots. So
they're beating a couple bad teams in the Rams are
under five hundred. So is that that impressive from Miami?
I think Green Bay is in a spot where they think,
maybe if the Lions slip up, could we catch them.
Speaker 7 (25:13):
And that's why, compounded with the weather and to his
struggles in cold that we know.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
I like the Packers here now it's three, but at
three and a half, I don't know that hook is dangerous,
but we both I think the Packers Jordan Love remember
pop last year on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 7 (25:27):
Now this is a night game and probably what thirty
million people watching Jordan Love. I think he's back. Baby.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Tomorrow's headlines today Raiders Chiefs, Raiders kind of look beat
up and exhausted and not ready to compete.
Speaker 6 (25:42):
My worst pick of the year last year was the
Chiefs on Christmas Day against the Raiders, where the Raiders
beat them.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
Let's see what happens on Black Friday.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
The headline will be Sack Friday sales, Raiders flattened when
doors open. The Raiders just announced here in the last
ten minutes that Aiden O'Connell will be starting the mighty
eight and O'Connell coming off the injury, he's gonna be starting.
Speaker 7 (26:03):
And I checked the temperatures were in the thirties on
Black Friday. Ag Aid and O'Connell going outdoor.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
In mobile Aidan O'Connell yes, And Kansas City gets back
My main man, Isaiah Pacheco, one of my favorite running
backs in the league. Colin Listen, he has another dimension
to this offense because he catches passes out of the backfield.
Speaker 7 (26:21):
Uh Kareem Hunt.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
He was okay at that, but he's a little older.
I just I don't see it what the Raiders are starting.
I think a mere Abdullah what is he like? Thirty
seven at running back? Not a lot of options for
the Raiders.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
I like the Chiefs here big.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
This is an interesting one. Next tomorrow's headlines today Seattle
look great. Now they go to Aaron and the Jets,
who are swimming in nonsense. Yeah, what say you? It's
Toddy Fox.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
I noticed you kind of laid off a little bit
of the Aaron Rodgers because there's a lot of noise
this week.
Speaker 7 (26:50):
It's almost like you're over it. You're kind of sick
of them.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
The headline will be cran buried Jets get lost in
the sauce. Listen, I'll the Jets guy. You guys know that.
I think this is the first time I've picked against them.
Maybe all season you followed this story. Aaron Rodgers just
keeps talking. This is the guy who in the offseason
was like, hey, we just go we want to keep
it on football. Keep that crap out of the building.
(27:13):
He's going interviews all the time. Well, I don't know
if I'm gonna play next year. If I do play, it's.
Speaker 7 (27:18):
Probably with the Jet.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
This is all we've heard for the Jets in the
last two weeks, and it's like, dude, what are we
doing here? The defense is clearly quit on Olbreck. They're
not really tackling well. And now you got a Seahawks
team that's starting to peak. They put Arizona down pretty
well last week after the win over sanfran and I
talked about it. They're going with the single high safety,
taking away the run, you take away Breese Hall, and
(27:41):
now Aaron Rodgers has to beat those tough corners Witherspoon
and the other guy whose name I'm spacing on, who's incredible.
Speaker 7 (27:48):
I don't see how the Jets compete here.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Would not surprise me if this were twenty eight eleven
and the Jets got embarrassed and Aaron ro You know,
the stuff swirling around Rogers is not good Colin. I
think the Seahawks live to win that NFC West Division.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Finally, Tomorrow's headlines today Texans Jaguars in Jyville. This screams
J Max. You love those AFC South NFC South battle.
Speaker 6 (28:13):
I also enjoy you enjoy our discussions about who's the
next Jaguars coach.
Speaker 7 (28:18):
That's fun.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
But for this one, the headline will be happy tanksgiving
Jack's grateful for picks. Yeah, I'm on Houston here. Houston
has lost three or four. They did beat Dallas. Yeah,
but and I noted it last week when I liked
the Titans. So they had three prime time games in
a row. It was the Jets, the Lions, and the Cowboy.
It's a lot of primetime games are totally different than
Sunday one pm. So then it was a little come
(28:41):
down for the Titans. I see a big bounce back here.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So CJ.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Stroud will absolutely eviscerate zone defenses. Yes, And in the
earlier meeting against Jacksonville three hundred and forty five yards
passing two touchdowns, he didn't have Mixon. Mixon's now back,
and Mixon's off his worst game of the season twenty
two yards against the Titans.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
We know Stroud's offensive line's been bad. Calin I looked him.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Look at pressure rates. Jaggs ranked thirty first in the
league in pressure rate. They do not get at the quarterbacks.
Stroud's gonna have a clean pocket, Laramie Tunzel, no penalties.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
I think Houston says, guys, guys, we're not bad.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
We are a team. We can get this going. And
I think the Texans kind of clawback and beat down.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Ye a bat that was my second favorite pick on
the board.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Well, Trevor Lawrence, it looks like he may go.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
He's touching it.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
Well, we'll see.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
They haven't announced it officially. That would be a big
get back. But why would they play him if he's
hurt and they're.
Speaker 7 (29:33):
Trying to tank?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Listen to this. Brock Purty of the Niners limited at
practice today, Nick Bosa, Trent Williams did not practice.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
I had to leave the bills out the bills. They're
going to crush the forty nine ers here. You know,
San Franz spirits are.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Down well and Brock party now limited. It practice a
shoulder issue for a guy that didn't have a big
arm to begin with. Now he's got a throwing shoulder.
Speaker 6 (29:59):
He's shoe months away from adding a massive contract. Color
is he risking that shoulder like a further injury surgery?
He's not getting paid.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
If you're paying big money, is that your thing?
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Well, I mean I'm not gonna pay a big money
I think we could talk him into a Baker Mayfield
ish type contract. I don't know if he would like that,
but hey, Brock, do you want to have Debo and
Kittle uh and.
Speaker 7 (30:16):
A market Huh?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
What's the market for him?
Speaker 7 (30:19):
If they drop Perty?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
What's the market?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
I mean it's it's more robust than Sam Donald, that's
for sure.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
No.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Oh, come on, Sam's bigger, stronger athlete.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Better.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
We have like five years of Sam Darnald.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
He's that one good year with Kevin O'Connor, rock Perty
genius with Kyle Shannon small hurt again, you're just obsessed
with like can you guy throw the football out of
the stadium?
Speaker 1 (30:44):
That's like here, Well, I like Brock, but you have
you have categorized him into the Lamar to two years
of you saying Josh mahomes purty MVP, he's not that well.
Speaker 7 (30:58):
The numbers backed me up.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, but stats lie a lot. There's a lot of stats.
Obviously Darnald is getting Sam like Gardner Minshew with Shane
Steichen and Jonathan Taylor and Michael Pittman. That's not who
he is. He's much closer to the Raiders version. So
you can have the like Sam Darnold right now, is
he this good? Well? History tells you he's got a
perfect two receivers corner, great coach.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
I mean that.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
So if you're the Raiders and you're picking eighth, you
would take Darnald over Purty if they both wanted the
exact same contract.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I think I'd take Donald. I think he's a bigger,
stronger professional athlete for a bigger arm.
Speaker 7 (31:35):
I know a lot of people like him.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I would take Ny, but I'm not outraged by it.
Not outraging you. Don't everybody be safe tonight. It's a
night crazies are out. Moderation, stay home, hang out,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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