May 31, 2023 • 41 mins
Doug Gottlieb in for Colin
Thoughts on Nuggets HC Michael Malone's recent comments
Details on the Packers breakup with Aaron Rodgers
Guest: Mark Medina
#Douggottliebshow
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Wherever you may be and however you may be making
this part of your day.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd and for the
next three hours we'll be talking sports and some other stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Right, We're in this weird.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Kind of waiting game, you know, weird kind of waiting
game in terms of there's no NBA Finals yet, although
set there's nothing really NFL.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Baseball.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It just feels like we're making it up to try
and talk about it. This is just like, look, Colin's
smart man. You're gonna take a week off and go
see Raykovic.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Do it these next couple of days.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
By the way, see men, I'll be back on Friday
getting you ready for or reacting to NBA Finals Game one.
So look, I I'm fascinated by the psychology backflips that
Mike Malone is trying to pull off, right, because up
until this point he was the nobody pays attention to
(01:44):
us guy, right, nobody, nobody pays attention to us. And
it got to the point where you're like, dude, we
hear you already. And I think the greatest support story
you have for the media not paying attention to the
Nuggets is there's nothing else going on. There's nothing else
(02:07):
going on at all. Okay, and now there's nothing else
going on, but the NBA Finals are set. The Denver
Nuggets are in the NBA Finals. They've been nothing short
of incredibly impressive. They have been the best team in
the playoffs. It's not really close, and yet, I mean,
(02:28):
what are we talking about here? And I understand it's
hard to make up storylines when they don't yet exist.
We don't yet see the matchups. Tyler hero is gonna
come back and play. Does that help her screw up
the Miami Heat?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
You know?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
I don't know, but I found the backflips that Mike
Malone did yesterday to be really interesting. Here's the Nuggets
head coach talking about the heat being an eight seed
in this series.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Forget the eight seed stuff. They beat Milwaukee for to one.
Team that the most wins in the NBA this year,
beat Boston four to three and they're up three to
zero team, but I think the second most wins in
the NBA this year. So you get to the NBA Finals,
it's not the best seeding anymore. You're trying to win
the first NBA championship in franchise history. It's gonna be
the hardest thing that we've ever done, which is the
(03:15):
way it should be.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I mean, look, I understand what he's saying, which is like,
it doesn't matter. And this is back when you go
to the NCAA Tournament's like, look, seed number doesn't matter.
Team starts winning a game, they're playing above their level.
And if we're really honest about it, what does the
seed mean in the NBA playoffs anyway? Since the regular
season doesn't matter, it does, and it does, Is it
(03:42):
really a determinant into who's really the best team?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Not really?
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Just like the MVP is a regular season award, the
regular season, the best record in the regular season is
a it's a it's completely different sport. I do think
home court advantage now only matters, but especial she matters
in Denver with the altitude, and matters with a team
that has a couple of as one player that's been
there before, albeit in the bubble with KCP, but for
(04:09):
the most part inexperience at this point of the playoffs.
But I but what Mike Malone is doing is he
played the underdog card as much as he could and
now he looks down. He's just got a handful of aces,
and now he's like, well, you guys think it's easy
to play with you know aces?
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Yo, sure we're the best team, but seeds don't matter here.
I mean, look, it's it's brilliant. It's not diabolical, right,
He's not doing anything sinister here. But it's painfully obvious
we're out of underdog cards now that we're the favorite,
(04:52):
and it's obvious that everyone expects us to win and
to wrap this thing up pretty quickly. Despite all of that,
I can't allow my guys to be complacent, which only
shows that all the other stuff he said was clearly
psychological nonsense to begin with. It's like when you have
(05:15):
when you have an argument, and I don't know if
you guys do this when you're It's like whenever I've
been on debate shows. Did you know I was on
the debate team in high school? Jason Stewart, I was
actually tested in high school. We had a model un
debate team and I was on the debate team.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
You've mentioned that before. I could see you.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Oh yeah, totally, but it was you know, it's like to.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
Lose Doug and you like to talk over people, So
that sounds like a debate tactic.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
What'd you say?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I couldn't hear you. I was thinking about what actually
actually in debates. I don't like to talk over people.
What I I struggle to do is I find and
the way in which I feel like you can win
debates is when you find the one falsehood in something
(06:02):
someone's saying, Like they can list ten things. You find
the one thing that isn't correct and that's definably incorrect,
and it can bring down all the other arguments even
if they are correct.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
The other way is to use their argument against them,
use the exact argument. You go, okay, it works for
you there, how about here? Those are the two ways
in which I like to find ways to win arguments.
And the easy way to pick apart this argument that
he's making is to simply say that, okay, then if
(06:39):
regular season and seeding don't matter, why did you complain
so much about the lack of attention that you got
based upon the success of your regular season previously? It
dismantles every part of his argument. So, look, I think
(07:01):
Malone has done. First of all, they're a beautifully coached team.
They're really well coached team, and there is something real
to the Hey, they haven't played, they won't have played
in a week when they played, and as much as
the Heat were pushed to seven games, they've had a
good recovery time. I think some of it balances out
with playing an out student being in altitude and that
(07:23):
doesn't make it easier, and the Heat will have a
different look and a different rotation, however they choose to
use Tyler Hero. But I just think like this whole
thing is brilliant and yet very easy to see what
he's doing. He's been the perceived underdog, or tried to
(07:45):
build up that they're the underdog the entire time in
the playoffs. Nobody believes in US, nobody watches US, nobody
respects US. Despite all of our successes. You didn't realize
Jokisch was that good. Course not nobody watches He's right.
But it's not because we don't think you're good. It's
(08:06):
because it's a regular season NBA. You're in Denver, you
haven't won anything. It just it doesn't necessarily fit on
our radar with all this other stuff going on. But
all of a sudden, you do the flip to the no, no, no,
we're not the favorite now because seeds don't matter. Wait
(08:28):
huh it mattered when you were the underdog. It doesn't
matter when you're the favorite. And yes, they were the
underdog going into the Lakers series. The Lakers had the
best odds after I think the midway point of the
Warriors series. The Lakers had the best odds to get
to the NBA Finals. That of course makes them a favorite.
They were a favorite to beat the Denver Nuggets, so
(08:50):
regardless of seed, they were favorite. Now the Nuggets are
a hefty favorite to win the championship. It's like, ah,
seed don't matter, brilliant, but it's so right there in
front of you, and I guess the question is, does
anybody buy that the good?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You know he's right, don't matter.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Because again, this is where you use his argument against him. Wait,
you just said that you know you were an underdog.
Now can't you create the same energy underdog for the
Miami Heat. Nobody believes in them, eight seed, not the favorite,
et cetera, et cetera. I'm fascinated by the psychology of
(09:30):
a coach, and it's been relayed to me by other
people because I've asked people in basketball, like why is
he why is he saying these things? Like when they
were clearly better than the Lakers, you know, he was
still saying and making these statements as if they were
massive underdogs and they were feeling slighted and nobody pays
(09:51):
attention to us. And the response I got was like, Hey,
you're still got to find ways to motivate your team.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You need that.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
That feels like high school stuff, little kid stuff, but
it's true. Like the It's like they say about comedians, right,
the saddest people you'll meet are the funniest people you'll meet,
because comedians are they're not necessarily hiding, They're trying to
work through all the other pain in their life, and
they do so with humor. Well, I mean, I think
(10:25):
the same can be true for confident people or people
who you perceive as super confident, successful, super The guys
that have this I mean like a professional athlete. These
guys talk and walk as if I mean Jamal Murray,
I think I'm one of the best players in the NBA.
I don't disagree, But you having to say it and
(10:45):
then you having to have your coach basically make you out.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
To be an underdog when you are not.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Tells me that there's some either perceived lack of motivation.
I don't think that's what it is, or that the
ability to motivate is that you have naysayers and yeah,
we're all competitors. That gets anybody going, but I think
even more so at this level it's the NBA Finals.
Why do you need anybody to say anything to you
(11:13):
to get you motivated because you have some sort of
maybe insecurity and it triggers it and gets you to
lock in. The psychology of coaching is really really interesting,
and you would think that at this level there isn't
some psychological warfare you have to play on your own
players to make the narrative some sort of negative. But
(11:37):
I think apparently that's what Mike Malone and many others
feel is needed. All Right, I'm Doug Gottliebin for Colin Cowherd.
The big news in the NBA yesterday was that Bob Myers.
Bob Myers is out in Golden State. Is this the
first break in the Warriors dynasty?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
To catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in neon
Eastern non a im Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Doug Gottliebin for Colin.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
This is the Hurt on Fox Sports Radio, the iHeartRadio App.
It's a good jam. Back in the day. There's a
couple of college basketball stories, believe or not, which are fascinating.
(12:33):
It goes hand in hand with what Nick Saban's been
talking about the SEC meetings. So there's a lot to this.
The nil the state of college athletics. I think that's fascinating.
Wait to hear who is at Saints practice. Saints practice.
But let's welcome in Mark Mdini's our Fox Sports Radio
(12:54):
NBA insider.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
For you name it forever.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
This guy has covered and the league so so well,
let's start with the Bob Myers departure in Golden State
didn't strike me as a surprise to anyone who covers
the NBA. There's a Tim Kawakami, who, of course has
worked in Northern California, San Jose Mercury Renews forever.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Now he's with the Athletic.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
He did a column today kind of detailing that, you
know what led to some of the breakdown between Joe
lacub and Bob Myers. But what's your sense why would
why would they break up a team in terms of
a management team that had, at least on the court,
seen the most success in franchise history.
Speaker 8 (13:40):
Yeah, dougas the ultimate question. And as much as Bob
Myers is very transparent during his press conference about just
being burned out by the job, you do wonder about this.
I mean, on one hand, he was adamant that, you know,
money wasn't an issue. The worst gave him generous offers
to keep him, because that's what the Warriors have been
(14:01):
all about. But he decided to walk away because he
just felt like the demands of it were too much.
And you know, with that, I couldn't help. But wonder well,
was this as much about getting away from Joe Lakeup
as it was from getting away from the Warriors. But
I think the clear distinction here is he was very
grateful for Joe Lacup's ownership and leadership role, with you know,
(14:24):
giving him a big budget to spend and being obsessed
with winning. You know, not every NBA owner has that
kind of passion, but there's no doubt with his expectations
and just the Warriors expectations as a whole, it becomes
a very heavy task. But at the same time, this
is what Bob Meyers had signed up for from the
very beginning. So I think with all that, you do
(14:47):
wonder did it finally get to the point where enough
was enough? And you also wonder did he get to
the point where, you know, the Warriors are entering what
potentially could be some significant pivot points, and was Bob
I comfortable with dealing with that when it comes to,
you know, trying to see what they can do with
Raymond Green and Klay Thompson and you know, course correct
(15:10):
from this second round exit after seeing some mixed progress
with their young players, so a lot a lot of
things unpack, and you do wonder, is this the first
shoot to drop or is this just a way for
the Warriors to navigate another chalone?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Okay, so how do they restructure the front office.
Speaker 8 (15:28):
Well, I think the low hanging fruit is I've been
told don't expect any sort of like exhaustive search while
there's no timeline. The timeline takes care of itself of
free agency and the draft. But yeah, I think it
seems like Mike Dunleyvy is a heavy favorite now. They
had given him, you know, roles in the last two
years and being the front office where he would be
(15:49):
prepared for this position. Same thing with Kirk Lakeup. And
I think that the very important thing about Bob Myers.
I mean, we can look at his draft history, good
and bad, his free agent acquisitions, but really the most
valuable part that Bob Meyers showed was his relationship capital
with built being a bridge with the players and coaching
(16:11):
staff with ownership. And I do wonder if, whether it's
Mike or Kirk or any combination, how do they fill
that void. I think in one respect, you can't replace
what Bob Myers did over a decade with building those relationships,
But at least to their credit, in recent years, not
only have they put in the work, but they've had
(16:31):
a presence around the team where they can have relationships
with players, but the reality is you can't replace a
valuable commodity overnight, and you do wonder how much will
that factor into what will happen assuming Draymond Green opts
out of his player option, What would a possible extension
(16:51):
look like? How would difficult conversations play out with Draymond
if it was Bob as opposed to Mike or Kirk.
The same thing with Kway Thompson. He hopes he can
get an extension this summer, but the reality is he
has one year left on his contract, and he had
some you know, struggling performances as you know, during the playoffs.
(17:13):
So it seems like that Bob would obviously have much
more of the history and the personality and capital to
be able to handle those potentially tough waters as opposed
to any new fit. But I think the Warriors are
bullish that at least they've prepared them to get to
this point and be that bridge, and that they've put
in the work and they've shown they're capable of doing it.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Okay, let's peruise around the NBA. The Knicks fell flat
in the playoffs both the past two years, but Jalen
Brunson was was a godsend, right, I mean, he's been outstanding.
Why they fire their general.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
Manager, Well, I think that clearly there was some you know,
contra track extension worries and with James Dolan, even though
they're you know, obviously worth a pretty hefty sum. Uh,
there's always money that gets involved there. But I think
it could be also a few things here. Leon Rose
(18:14):
has had a pretty big role in the front office,
and maybe that they you know, just put his responsibilities
even more on his plate. But I think it's also
an acknowledgment that you know, look, the Knicks, they're glad
that they finally got to the playoffs and they're respectable,
but they're trying to get to the next level. But
I think that objectively speaking, when you're looking at their roster,
(18:36):
I think they maxed out with what they could get.
I mean, Jalen Brunson obviously overachieved and defied everyone's expectations.
Maybe not yours, Doug, because you were one of the
very few to call this from the beginning, and the
rest of the roster it was it was a good
mix of you know, Julius Randall and good role players
that you know, really just try to get by with
(18:57):
hustle plays and Tom Thibodeau, you know, had that grinded
out mentality, and so I think that clearly they felt
like this was the best that this team could accomplish.
So how did they get to that next level with
improving the roster? So it'll be interesting Officeason, as it
always does with New York it is.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
It's fair to say though that it feels like, I mean, look,
Scott Perry did a nice job in drafting. Obviously, Mitchell
Robinson's been a good addition, and maybe he hasn't lived
up to expectations, but you know, RJ.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Barrett's a good player. Quentin Grimes has been. It was
a great find.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
But I mean if we all say, hey, look you
brought in a guy and he had nothing to do
with it, right, Yeah, I mean his dad's on staff,
Leon Rose's former agent, like all of that stuff really
didn't have to do with Scott Perry. And if that's
what changed the organization, his services aren't totally needed. Let
let's let's get to the finals. See at the Bottles
(19:58):
Tyler hero is gonna play? How does he fit in
when they've been playing with in the playoffs.
Speaker 8 (20:03):
Without him Yeah, well, I think it's interesting. I think
that in some respects he's a plug and play player
from what he can be on the court, especially in
the HEAT system. But I wouldn't be surprised that they
slowly integrate him just because he's been out for a
little bit and the Heat of all organizations really value conditioning,
(20:24):
and so I anticipate that there'll be some rust, but
I expect, you know, game two or worst case, game three,
he'll be back doing what he normally was doing. But
I think one of the you know, one of the
really good qualities with the Heat, as they've shown throughout
the regular season this postseason, they really knew how to wait,
to just navigate, you know, all the ugliness and the good,
(20:46):
bad and the ugly of overlapping injuries and consistent performances,
et cetera, because of that great combination of Jimmy Butler
in the way he's wired, as well as a bunch
of undrafted players that have really you know, heard their
three point shooting and different positional needs and so you know,
clearly they're able to hold the fort without them. But
(21:07):
you know, this Dunkets team is obviously the real deal.
I'm not going to get on your bad side, say,
oh they get they don't get enough attention here, but
clearly they they are the favorite team I think to
win the NBA Finals. So the Heat need to have
every single player playoffs to their capabilities.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
No, you're not getting them.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I mean, they don't get what would be equal attention
to the Warriors the Lakers. But it's a direct reflection
of what people at least to this point have said
they care.
Speaker 8 (21:38):
About, which oh, yeah, without doubts.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I mean right, It's not like there's anything sinister and
nefarious about people going like you know, I mean, I mean,
I honestly believe that Game one of the Lakers series
was the first time about ninety five percent of the
people watching watched Jokic play an entire NBA game. They're like, man,
this guy is good. Like, yeah, he's been awesome for
(21:59):
a couple years now.
Speaker 8 (22:00):
Yeah, now, clearly being facetious here, and I've been with
you ever since this non story came out. I mean, look,
you'd like that, you know, good teams get attention and
people know about them, But the reality is they're in
a small market, and I think it's about proportion. It's
not about oh, no, one knows who they are. But
when you're looking at so many different storylines throughout this
(22:23):
NBA with big market teams that have a lot of
big implications, with the Lakers and the Clippers and the Suns,
the Warriors, you go down the line, there's just inevitably
going to be more attention. That's not to say that
the Nuggets, you know, don't deserve their due, and there's
a lot of feel good stories about them with how
well they've played, and you know some of the comeback
(22:44):
efforts that Jamal Murray Michael Porter had with their injuries,
and you know Nikola Jokic having another dominant season, Michael
Malone having another great coaching stint, and just the continuity
with everyone involved. But it's just the reality here. So yeah,
I've rolled my eyes along with you over this whole
non story.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
The Lakers.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
What's their plans?
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Well, I think, given the Lakers, it's always fluid and
subject to change. But that being said, I think that philosophically,
you know what Rob Polinka said the exit interviews is
likely what's going to happen. They're going to lean more
toward trying to retain as much of their roster as
they have as opposed to going big game free agent hunting,
(23:30):
and so what that looks like. There's obviously an unknown,
as you know, Doug, with the free agent and the
cap implications. If I had a guess, I think for sure,
Austin Reeves really Hotchemore are back because of what they
were with growing as role players, the fact that they're
restricted free agents, so there's more flexibility for the Lakers
not only to obviously match offers, but to spend D'Angelo Russell.
(23:52):
I think it really just depends on what the market
value is for him from other teams. But I think
that they're mindful that as much as he had some struggles,
most notably in the Western Conference Finals, he was a
key piece to make the offense work a lot much
more efficiently than it was when Russell Westbrook was there.
And so with that, regardless of the unknown of exactly
(24:17):
how many of the Lakers free agents are retained this
upcoming offseason, I think it's safe to say we're not
seeing Kyrie Irving in a Lakers uniform. We're not seeing
Trey Young in a Lakers uniform. I think that even
though the circumstances are different, the Russell Westbrook experience, I
think really reinforced the Lakers the cons of not having
(24:41):
enough roster balance when you're putting so much investment into
another star along with Lebron, and they do.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Celtics obviously had a disappointing finish to a great regular
season and ups and downs in the playoffs. Right down
three games two, they come back beat the six Ers
twelve and Jason Tatum is awesome. Down three games to none,
they come back, force the game seven, Tatum rolls his
ankle and a no show offensively.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
What do they do in the offseason?
Speaker 8 (25:11):
Yeah, it's it's really interesting, Doug, because I think that
I'm with you. They collapsed, they underachieved, et cetera. And
I certainly had criticisms of you know, Joe Mozulla as
well as you know, just how they played as a unit.
But I think that practically speaking, it's a lot easier
if they retain what they have now and deal with
(25:31):
everything later, because I think that that's really the best
case scenario. I mean, the reality is, you know, Joe
Mozula might deserve scrutiny, It certainly deserves scrutiny for some
of his shortcomings. During the playoffs, but he also deserves
praise for growing to get them back to a three
to three you know series tie. You know, Jalen Brown,
Jason Tatum. They showed growth in the last year with coexisting.
(25:54):
I think it was revealing though that Jason Tatum has
an injury and this is a time for Jalen Brown
on to take over, and he did it. But I
think with that they have shown that they can have
some success, gained to the finals and then just improving from
within from last season. And so even though there are
question marks, I think that it's easier to just keep
(26:17):
everything you have and if you have to make changes,
do that next season, whether it's trades or coaching changes.
Then I think that if nothing else, even though that
no doubt they're expected to contend for a title and
this is disappointing, they're much better off, at least in
the short term, you know, going with what they have now.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Mark, awesome stuff. Let's let's talk some more as the
finals get started. Appreciate your time and join us on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 8 (26:44):
Doug appreciate you as always.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
All Right, that's my guy, Mark Medina, Fox Sports Radio,
NBA Insider. Let's get to Jason Stewart with the news.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
No, no, this is the herd line news, Doug.
Speaker 6 (26:58):
As people try to find ore lines here to pass
the time before the NBA Finals, Denver's altitude has become
a narrative. Now I didn't know if I don't know
if you knew this, but Denver is a mile high
from sea level?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Ye is it?
Speaker 6 (27:15):
And uh? And players have struggled up there. Athletes have
struggled Now this was an interesting angle and and uh.
Kevin Garnett on his certified KG certified on Showtime said
this told a story about what the Nuggets pulled on
him once.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
Phones I got to ask you, man, I was the elevation, like, oh, real?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Is real?
Speaker 8 (27:41):
Real?
Speaker 7 (27:42):
You know?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
They games? Just your mintell. Welcome to Denver.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
If you start feeling faint, it is because you are
above you liked up hold on two thousand having a
panic tail.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think I.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Failed, Doug. You said that the altitude becomes a major factor,
not necessarily in the first twenty four hours, but in
the first forty eight hours.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Well, okay, so here's what it's like. When I played
in college, we played Colorado. My brother's been assistant coaching
college for twenty eight years. And let's see here, he
was eight at San Diego State, six at CAL six
Oregon State. San Diego State was in the Mountain West,
(28:42):
which when he was first in it, them and TCU
were the only schools that were Sea level. And then
of course when you're in the Pac ten then Pac twelve,
you play Utah and Colorado every year, and so a
couple of things. One, it's a real thing. I mean,
it's actually like physics, and in your first game, yeah,
(29:06):
it'll hit you in the usually in the fourth quarter.
But everybody is different, like some people adjust do it
better than others, and you can't really plan for that.
But what they always say in the Pac twelve is like, hey,
careful about that second game because you're in Utah, you
go to Colorado or vice versa, and you become oxygen deprived.
(29:27):
Your body has it takes a couple of weeks for
your body to adjust to it. And so like NFL
teams a lot of times they'll fly in the night
before they're going to play the Broncos. In college football,
you fly in as as quickly as possible so your
body doesn't become oxygen deprived.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
The Celtics. That was a real thing that they.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Were flying out the day after the night of when
the Heat when they beat the Celtics, and so they're
in Denver. I don't love the idea of being there
this long, even though the NBA mandates that they have
to be there a couple days before for the interviews.
And it's a real thing. It affects different guys differently.
The Heat are widely considered the best conditioned team in
(30:07):
the NBA, but the Nuggets played to it. They play fast,
they pushed with great temple and pace, and I think
end of Game one and all of Game two it
will likely be an.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
Issue shifting to the NFL. Doug Dennis Allen has been
asked to answer for this. This week, he brought in
former Raiders head coach John Gruden. In a lot of circles,
you think that he's been kind of ostracized from the NFL.
But Dennis Allen said this about bringing in his new quarterback,
(30:39):
Derek Carr's former coach number one.
Speaker 9 (30:42):
We've had several coaches come and visit. Obviously, John's a
guy that has a lot of experience with Derek, and
Derek's had his most success under John Gruden, and so
we felt like bringing him in, having a chance to
down and visit with him as an offensive staff with quarterbacks,
(31:06):
and just get some new thoughts and ideas things that
we might be able to implement. You know, I would
say this, I would say, you know, offensively, for a
long time that I've been here, we've been We've been
pretty effective offensively, and so I don't see us putting
in a whole new offense or doing something dramatic, but
(31:28):
you know, if there's a few ideas that we could
take from that, we felt like that would be beneficial.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
So who's given him grief over?
Speaker 6 (31:36):
Well, reporters were asking him why, And I think the
reporters kind of the angle on this was John Gruden
hasn't surfaced since he was let go. Why John Gruden?
We get the connection here, but given his I guess
reputation and how things ended with the Raiders, I think
that it's odd to say the least.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I think it's not a it's not ad I mean,
just be totally candid with you, reporters and people who
question this, honestly, they're either being disingenuous or they're.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Just completely complete idiots.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
This is all of sport, all of business. Where you
bring in a consultant who has been successful in the field,
there are like, look, there are dudes that got me too,
and you don't want them running your company anymore.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You don't want them around females.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
But if they have some knowledge on how to be successful, meanwhile,
they're going through their own kind of personal professional reapp
If you're.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Like, hey, how do I make a movie?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
And you have a really successful filmmaker, there are some
people that it's just too far gone through.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
They're Gruden stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
He's incredibly well respected for his attention to detail. And oh,
by the way, he has his former quarterback. This happens everywhere.
Coaches who get fired in college, they come in and
consult take notes while much practice, give a couple ideas
in the NFL. Happens in the business world, happens all
the time. It doesn't mean you're hiring him to run
(33:07):
your franchise or to be your offensive coordinator. But if
you have the chance to have John Green, hey, why
don't you take a look at this and tell us
what you think. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? The
guy is a football savant. The stuff that got him
in trouble was all the other stuff. But in terms
of football, especially in building a relationship with Derek Carr
(33:29):
and things that might work, I don't know if there's
a better human being alive to do that.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
That's Jason Stewart in the news.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Who's the blame of the Packers break up with Aaron Rodgers?
A new article details the off seasons of the past
three years. You hear about it next in the Hurt.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 10 (33:58):
Hey got miss Jay Glazers of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast,
and each week we try to help turn our mental
health issues into mental wealth and we dive in with
everyone from the world of sports and entertainment like Sean McVay,
Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelps, David Spade, Got Fievy and also
those who could help us in between the ears, anyone
(34:19):
from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for John Gordon.
So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a
mental health podcast on iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get podcasts.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Doug ot Leaving for Cong's The Herd, Fox Sports Radio,
iHeart Radio app. Oh, this is a good one. This
is a good one. Good one, right. Don't you love
the juicy details of a breakup? What he say and
then what she say, and then what he say and
then what she say?
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Right? Well, that's what we have in The Athletic. Uh.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Matt Schneedman covers the Packers for The Athletic, and he
detailed the breakup and breakdown of the relationship between Aaron
Rodgers and Brian Goodenkints, essentially Aaron Rodgers and the Green
Bay Packers. He talked to Aaron Rodgers like Aaron Rodgers
kind of took him through what happened after.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Jordan Love was drafted.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
For example, did I want to Rogers said years down
the line, go, well, if we had just taken somebody
who could impact our team because we had just gone
to the NFC championship game.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Of course Rogers said that the Packers isn't a draft Love.
I don't think any competitor would say anything different. So
Rogers is trying to make it out that it wasn't
that they drafted Jordan Love. It's that Hey, they just
went to the NFC Championship game, and everyone knows that
if you draft a quarterback like it's a in order.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
For him to play, Aaron has to sit.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
So and that wasn't happening, and it was a future selection,
so he wouldn't you know, he wouldn't t Higgins for example,
was available, taken in the first second round, I would
have helped the green Bay Packers, According to a source
associate with the team who was granted anonymity to candidly
(36:10):
discuss the sensitive dynamics between the front office and the
star quarterback, early in the twenty twenty one off season,
done rogers agent called Mark Murphy to request one of
two things, trade Rogers or fire Brian Goodenkinz.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Murphy did neither.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Months later, news broke that Rogers wanted out of Green Bay,
but the Packers held firm. It goes to the twenty
twenty one off season. Okay, so this is obviously not
last year. It's the previous year.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
So in the previous year, remember that's when he was
holding out. I was when he didn't know if he
want to come back. What was going on after the
first practice of camp, Rogers aired his grievances, saying he
wanted changes to the organization's communication and culture. According to Rogers,
the communication between I and gouden Kunst improved, but quote,
(37:05):
it still wasn't anywhere near what I've already enjoyed here
with the Jets in just a few short weeks. So
the Jets in a new relationship, they want to be open, honest,
full lines of communication. According to the source, the next
offseason this is last year's last offseason, the Packers weren't
(37:25):
satisfied with rogers commitment and effort right not only during
voluntary OTAs, but day to day basis afterwards. Rogers takes
exception to the thought that the team wanted more from
him in the months after giving him the richest contract
in NFL history. When I'm in, I'm all in. You
just want to ride or die with off season workouts.
(37:46):
I won the MVP without doing off season workouts. Like
my commitment level was any less, then, I'd say not
at all. The way I came back to work, not
just physically in good shape, but mentally refreshed, is the
thing that for me was the reason I was able
(38:06):
to have the season I wanted to in Green Bay.
You fast forward to this offseason and Good and Cunts
and Rogers agreed to meet in person in southern California,
where Rodgers lives.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
In the off season.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Good and Cunts was traveling in January to the NFLPA
Collegiate Bowl.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
They never connected.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
And this is that story that many people have talked about,
that there was a disconnect because the Packers wouldn't FaceTime him. Quote,
I have zero or one bar at the house. This
is Aaron Rodgers. So you call me. Sometimes it goes through.
Most times it doesn't go through. Everybody who knows me
knows when I'm out west. They know how to get
(38:46):
a hold of me. So you can say whatever you want.
But that's the effing truth. Before I went into darkness,
I hit him up and said, here's some stuff swirling
around here. We should get together you me and Matt
and texted me more than I text him. Yeah, But
did I ghost to him?
Speaker 5 (39:03):
No.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
I texted him back and there was back and forth
that we had. And so this is the story that
you want to go with. You're gonna stand on this
hill of austerity and say, arguably, in the conversation the
best player in your franchise history. You're gonna say, I
couldn't get a hold of him, and that's why we
had to move on. Like, come on, just tell the truth.
You want to move on. You didn't like the fact
(39:24):
that we didn't communicate all the time. Listen, I talk
to the people that I like. I mean, Aaron Rodgers
contradicts himself and tells you who he really is in
all of these statements. Like first he's like, look, man,
I want open lines of communication.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
They won't try to communicate with you.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
You didn't want to communicate back with them, And your
defense is I communicate all the time with the people
I like.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I didn't like Brian Goodenkunz.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
I didn't like him, And so there was this thing
was over two years ago, three years ago when they
drafted Jordan Love. There's no way you can read this
article in which Aaron Rodgers defends they wanted me to
show up for OTAs I need to.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Be refreshed, like it's not all about you. Rogers is
probably right. It probably is.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Refreshing to get away, to go on a trip, to
go hiking, to go find yourself. But when you're trying
to involve new wide receivers and have a new connection
and be one with the team and be connected. You
gotta be there. You got to be there. It's like
(40:35):
they say about parenting. Most important thing about parenting, it's
just showing up. Most important thing about relationships is open
lines of communication. And Rogers saying I want to communicate,
but I communicate plenty with the people I like, tells
you he didn't like Brian Cunnekins, so he communicated as
much as was needed in order to keep the UH,
(40:56):
in order to keep some form of relationship going. All right,
Coming up next, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd.
Today is decision day.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
For what are you in or you out?
Speaker 6 (41:13):
For what?
Speaker 4 (41:15):
I'll explain next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the hurd
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Wherever you may be and however you may be making
this part of your day.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd and for the
next three hours we'll be talking sports and some other stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Right, We're in this weird.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Kind of waiting game, you know, weird kind of waiting
game in terms of there's no NBA Finals yet, although
set there's nothing really NFL.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Baseball.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It just feels like we're making it up to try
and talk about it. This is just like, look, Colin's
smart man. You're gonna take a week off and go
see Raykovic.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Do it these next couple of days.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
By the way, see men, I'll be back on Friday
getting you ready for or reacting to NBA Finals Game one.
So look, I I'm fascinated by the psychology backflips that
Mike Malone is trying to pull off, right, because up
until this point he was the nobody pays attention to
(01:44):
us guy, right, nobody, nobody pays attention to us. And
it got to the point where you're like, dude, we
hear you already. And I think the greatest support story
you have for the media not paying attention to the
Nuggets is there's nothing else going on. There's nothing else
(02:07):
going on at all. Okay, and now there's nothing else
going on, but the NBA Finals are set. The Denver
Nuggets are in the NBA Finals. They've been nothing short
of incredibly impressive. They have been the best team in
the playoffs. It's not really close, and yet, I mean,
(02:28):
what are we talking about here? And I understand it's
hard to make up storylines when they don't yet exist.
We don't yet see the matchups. Tyler hero is gonna
come back and play. Does that help her screw up
the Miami Heat?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
You know?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
I don't know, but I found the backflips that Mike
Malone did yesterday to be really interesting. Here's the Nuggets
head coach talking about the heat being an eight seed
in this series.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Forget the eight seed stuff. They beat Milwaukee for to one.
Team that the most wins in the NBA this year,
beat Boston four to three and they're up three to
zero team, but I think the second most wins in
the NBA this year. So you get to the NBA Finals,
it's not the best seeding anymore. You're trying to win
the first NBA championship in franchise history. It's gonna be
the hardest thing that we've ever done, which is the
(03:15):
way it should be.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I mean, look, I understand what he's saying, which is like,
it doesn't matter. And this is back when you go
to the NCAA Tournament's like, look, seed number doesn't matter.
Team starts winning a game, they're playing above their level.
And if we're really honest about it, what does the
seed mean in the NBA playoffs anyway? Since the regular
season doesn't matter, it does, and it does, Is it
(03:42):
really a determinant into who's really the best team?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Not really?
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Just like the MVP is a regular season award, the
regular season, the best record in the regular season is
a it's a it's completely different sport. I do think
home court advantage now only matters, but especial she matters
in Denver with the altitude, and matters with a team
that has a couple of as one player that's been
there before, albeit in the bubble with KCP, but for
(04:09):
the most part inexperience at this point of the playoffs.
But I but what Mike Malone is doing is he
played the underdog card as much as he could and
now he looks down. He's just got a handful of aces,
and now he's like, well, you guys think it's easy
to play with you know aces?
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Yo, sure we're the best team, but seeds don't matter here.
I mean, look, it's it's brilliant. It's not diabolical, right,
He's not doing anything sinister here. But it's painfully obvious
we're out of underdog cards now that we're the favorite,
(04:52):
and it's obvious that everyone expects us to win and
to wrap this thing up pretty quickly. Despite all of that,
I can't allow my guys to be complacent, which only
shows that all the other stuff he said was clearly
psychological nonsense to begin with. It's like when you have
(05:15):
when you have an argument, and I don't know if
you guys do this when you're It's like whenever I've
been on debate shows. Did you know I was on
the debate team in high school? Jason Stewart, I was
actually tested in high school. We had a model un
debate team and I was on the debate team.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
You've mentioned that before. I could see you.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Oh yeah, totally, but it was you know, it's like to.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
Lose Doug and you like to talk over people, So
that sounds like a debate tactic.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
What'd you say?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I couldn't hear you. I was thinking about what actually
actually in debates. I don't like to talk over people.
What I I struggle to do is I find and
the way in which I feel like you can win
debates is when you find the one falsehood in something
(06:02):
someone's saying, Like they can list ten things. You find
the one thing that isn't correct and that's definably incorrect,
and it can bring down all the other arguments even
if they are correct.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
The other way is to use their argument against them,
use the exact argument. You go, okay, it works for
you there, how about here? Those are the two ways
in which I like to find ways to win arguments.
And the easy way to pick apart this argument that
he's making is to simply say that, okay, then if
(06:39):
regular season and seeding don't matter, why did you complain
so much about the lack of attention that you got
based upon the success of your regular season previously? It
dismantles every part of his argument. So, look, I think
(07:01):
Malone has done. First of all, they're a beautifully coached team.
They're really well coached team, and there is something real
to the Hey, they haven't played, they won't have played
in a week when they played, and as much as
the Heat were pushed to seven games, they've had a
good recovery time. I think some of it balances out
with playing an out student being in altitude and that
(07:23):
doesn't make it easier, and the Heat will have a
different look and a different rotation, however they choose to
use Tyler Hero. But I just think like this whole
thing is brilliant and yet very easy to see what
he's doing. He's been the perceived underdog, or tried to
(07:45):
build up that they're the underdog the entire time in
the playoffs. Nobody believes in US, nobody watches US, nobody
respects US. Despite all of our successes. You didn't realize
Jokisch was that good. Course not nobody watches He's right.
But it's not because we don't think you're good. It's
(08:06):
because it's a regular season NBA. You're in Denver, you
haven't won anything. It just it doesn't necessarily fit on
our radar with all this other stuff going on. But
all of a sudden, you do the flip to the no, no, no,
we're not the favorite now because seeds don't matter. Wait
(08:28):
huh it mattered when you were the underdog. It doesn't
matter when you're the favorite. And yes, they were the
underdog going into the Lakers series. The Lakers had the
best odds after I think the midway point of the
Warriors series. The Lakers had the best odds to get
to the NBA Finals. That of course makes them a favorite.
They were a favorite to beat the Denver Nuggets, so
(08:50):
regardless of seed, they were favorite. Now the Nuggets are
a hefty favorite to win the championship. It's like, ah,
seed don't matter, brilliant, but it's so right there in
front of you, and I guess the question is, does
anybody buy that the good?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You know he's right, don't matter.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Because again, this is where you use his argument against him. Wait,
you just said that you know you were an underdog.
Now can't you create the same energy underdog for the
Miami Heat. Nobody believes in them, eight seed, not the favorite,
et cetera, et cetera. I'm fascinated by the psychology of
(09:30):
a coach, and it's been relayed to me by other
people because I've asked people in basketball, like why is
he why is he saying these things? Like when they
were clearly better than the Lakers, you know, he was
still saying and making these statements as if they were
massive underdogs and they were feeling slighted and nobody pays
(09:51):
attention to us. And the response I got was like, Hey,
you're still got to find ways to motivate your team.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
You need that.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
That feels like high school stuff, little kid stuff, but
it's true. Like the It's like they say about comedians, right,
the saddest people you'll meet are the funniest people you'll meet,
because comedians are they're not necessarily hiding, They're trying to
work through all the other pain in their life, and
they do so with humor. Well, I mean, I think
(10:25):
the same can be true for confident people or people
who you perceive as super confident, successful, super The guys
that have this I mean like a professional athlete. These
guys talk and walk as if I mean Jamal Murray,
I think I'm one of the best players in the NBA.
I don't disagree, But you having to say it and
(10:45):
then you having to have your coach basically make you out.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
To be an underdog when you are not.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Tells me that there's some either perceived lack of motivation.
I don't think that's what it is, or that the
ability to motivate is that you have naysayers and yeah,
we're all competitors. That gets anybody going, but I think
even more so at this level it's the NBA Finals.
Why do you need anybody to say anything to you
(11:13):
to get you motivated because you have some sort of
maybe insecurity and it triggers it and gets you to
lock in. The psychology of coaching is really really interesting,
and you would think that at this level there isn't
some psychological warfare you have to play on your own
players to make the narrative some sort of negative. But
(11:37):
I think apparently that's what Mike Malone and many others
feel is needed. All Right, I'm Doug Gottliebin for Colin Cowherd.
The big news in the NBA yesterday was that Bob Myers.
Bob Myers is out in Golden State. Is this the
first break in the Warriors dynasty?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
To catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in neon
Eastern non a im Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Doug Gottliebin for Colin.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
This is the Hurt on Fox Sports Radio, the iHeartRadio App.
It's a good jam. Back in the day. There's a
couple of college basketball stories, believe or not, which are fascinating.
(12:33):
It goes hand in hand with what Nick Saban's been
talking about the SEC meetings. So there's a lot to this.
The nil the state of college athletics. I think that's fascinating.
Wait to hear who is at Saints practice. Saints practice.
But let's welcome in Mark Mdini's our Fox Sports Radio
(12:54):
NBA insider.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
For you name it forever.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
This guy has covered and the league so so well,
let's start with the Bob Myers departure in Golden State
didn't strike me as a surprise to anyone who covers
the NBA. There's a Tim Kawakami, who, of course has
worked in Northern California, San Jose Mercury Renews forever.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Now he's with the Athletic.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
He did a column today kind of detailing that, you
know what led to some of the breakdown between Joe
lacub and Bob Myers. But what's your sense why would
why would they break up a team in terms of
a management team that had, at least on the court,
seen the most success in franchise history.
Speaker 8 (13:40):
Yeah, dougas the ultimate question. And as much as Bob
Myers is very transparent during his press conference about just
being burned out by the job, you do wonder about this.
I mean, on one hand, he was adamant that, you know,
money wasn't an issue. The worst gave him generous offers
to keep him, because that's what the Warriors have been
(14:01):
all about. But he decided to walk away because he
just felt like the demands of it were too much.
And you know, with that, I couldn't help. But wonder well,
was this as much about getting away from Joe Lakeup
as it was from getting away from the Warriors. But
I think the clear distinction here is he was very
grateful for Joe Lacup's ownership and leadership role, with you know,
(14:24):
giving him a big budget to spend and being obsessed
with winning. You know, not every NBA owner has that
kind of passion, but there's no doubt with his expectations
and just the Warriors expectations as a whole, it becomes
a very heavy task. But at the same time, this
is what Bob Meyers had signed up for from the
very beginning. So I think with all that, you do
(14:47):
wonder did it finally get to the point where enough
was enough? And you also wonder did he get to
the point where, you know, the Warriors are entering what
potentially could be some significant pivot points, and was Bob
I comfortable with dealing with that when it comes to,
you know, trying to see what they can do with
Raymond Green and Klay Thompson and you know, course correct
(15:10):
from this second round exit after seeing some mixed progress
with their young players, so a lot a lot of
things unpack, and you do wonder, is this the first
shoot to drop or is this just a way for
the Warriors to navigate another chalone?
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Okay, so how do they restructure the front office.
Speaker 8 (15:28):
Well, I think the low hanging fruit is I've been
told don't expect any sort of like exhaustive search while
there's no timeline. The timeline takes care of itself of
free agency and the draft. But yeah, I think it
seems like Mike Dunleyvy is a heavy favorite now. They
had given him, you know, roles in the last two
years and being the front office where he would be
(15:49):
prepared for this position. Same thing with Kirk Lakeup. And
I think that the very important thing about Bob Myers.
I mean, we can look at his draft history, good
and bad, his free agent acquisitions, but really the most
valuable part that Bob Meyers showed was his relationship capital
with built being a bridge with the players and coaching
(16:11):
staff with ownership. And I do wonder if, whether it's
Mike or Kirk or any combination, how do they fill
that void. I think in one respect, you can't replace
what Bob Myers did over a decade with building those relationships,
But at least to their credit, in recent years, not
only have they put in the work, but they've had
(16:31):
a presence around the team where they can have relationships
with players, but the reality is you can't replace a
valuable commodity overnight, and you do wonder how much will
that factor into what will happen assuming Draymond Green opts
out of his player option, What would a possible extension
(16:51):
look like? How would difficult conversations play out with Draymond
if it was Bob as opposed to Mike or Kirk.
The same thing with Kway Thompson. He hopes he can
get an extension this summer, but the reality is he
has one year left on his contract, and he had
some you know, struggling performances as you know, during the playoffs.
(17:13):
So it seems like that Bob would obviously have much
more of the history and the personality and capital to
be able to handle those potentially tough waters as opposed
to any new fit. But I think the Warriors are
bullish that at least they've prepared them to get to
this point and be that bridge, and that they've put
in the work and they've shown they're capable of doing it.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Okay, let's peruise around the NBA. The Knicks fell flat
in the playoffs both the past two years, but Jalen
Brunson was was a godsend, right, I mean, he's been outstanding.
Why they fire their general.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
Manager, Well, I think that clearly there was some you know,
contra track extension worries and with James Dolan, even though
they're you know, obviously worth a pretty hefty sum. Uh,
there's always money that gets involved there. But I think
it could be also a few things here. Leon Rose
(18:14):
has had a pretty big role in the front office,
and maybe that they you know, just put his responsibilities
even more on his plate. But I think it's also
an acknowledgment that you know, look, the Knicks, they're glad
that they finally got to the playoffs and they're respectable,
but they're trying to get to the next level. But
I think that objectively speaking, when you're looking at their roster,
(18:36):
I think they maxed out with what they could get.
I mean, Jalen Brunson obviously overachieved and defied everyone's expectations.
Maybe not yours, Doug, because you were one of the
very few to call this from the beginning, and the
rest of the roster it was it was a good
mix of you know, Julius Randall and good role players
that you know, really just try to get by with
(18:57):
hustle plays and Tom Thibodeau, you know, had that grinded
out mentality, and so I think that clearly they felt
like this was the best that this team could accomplish.
So how did they get to that next level with
improving the roster? So it'll be interesting Officeason, as it
always does with New York it is.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
It's fair to say though that it feels like, I mean, look,
Scott Perry did a nice job in drafting. Obviously, Mitchell
Robinson's been a good addition, and maybe he hasn't lived
up to expectations, but you know, RJ.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Barrett's a good player. Quentin Grimes has been. It was
a great find.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
But I mean if we all say, hey, look you
brought in a guy and he had nothing to do
with it, right, Yeah, I mean his dad's on staff,
Leon Rose's former agent, like all of that stuff really
didn't have to do with Scott Perry. And if that's
what changed the organization, his services aren't totally needed. Let
let's let's get to the finals. See at the Bottles
(19:58):
Tyler hero is gonna play? How does he fit in
when they've been playing with in the playoffs.
Speaker 8 (20:03):
Without him Yeah, well, I think it's interesting. I think
that in some respects he's a plug and play player
from what he can be on the court, especially in
the HEAT system. But I wouldn't be surprised that they
slowly integrate him just because he's been out for a
little bit and the Heat of all organizations really value conditioning,
(20:24):
and so I anticipate that there'll be some rust, but
I expect, you know, game two or worst case, game three,
he'll be back doing what he normally was doing. But
I think one of the you know, one of the
really good qualities with the Heat, as they've shown throughout
the regular season this postseason, they really knew how to wait,
to just navigate, you know, all the ugliness and the good,
(20:46):
bad and the ugly of overlapping injuries and consistent performances,
et cetera, because of that great combination of Jimmy Butler
in the way he's wired, as well as a bunch
of undrafted players that have really you know, heard their
three point shooting and different positional needs and so you know,
clearly they're able to hold the fort without them. But
(21:07):
you know, this Dunkets team is obviously the real deal.
I'm not going to get on your bad side, say,
oh they get they don't get enough attention here, but
clearly they they are the favorite team I think to
win the NBA Finals. So the Heat need to have
every single player playoffs to their capabilities.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
No, you're not getting them.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I mean, they don't get what would be equal attention
to the Warriors the Lakers. But it's a direct reflection
of what people at least to this point have said
they care.
Speaker 8 (21:38):
About, which oh, yeah, without doubts.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I mean right, It's not like there's anything sinister and
nefarious about people going like you know, I mean, I mean,
I honestly believe that Game one of the Lakers series
was the first time about ninety five percent of the
people watching watched Jokic play an entire NBA game. They're like, man,
this guy is good. Like, yeah, he's been awesome for
(21:59):
a couple years now.
Speaker 8 (22:00):
Yeah, now, clearly being facetious here, and I've been with
you ever since this non story came out. I mean, look,
you'd like that, you know, good teams get attention and
people know about them, But the reality is they're in
a small market, and I think it's about proportion. It's
not about oh, no, one knows who they are. But
when you're looking at so many different storylines throughout this
(22:23):
NBA with big market teams that have a lot of
big implications, with the Lakers and the Clippers and the Suns,
the Warriors, you go down the line, there's just inevitably
going to be more attention. That's not to say that
the Nuggets, you know, don't deserve their due, and there's
a lot of feel good stories about them with how
well they've played, and you know some of the comeback
(22:44):
efforts that Jamal Murray Michael Porter had with their injuries,
and you know Nikola Jokic having another dominant season, Michael
Malone having another great coaching stint, and just the continuity
with everyone involved. But it's just the reality here. So yeah,
I've rolled my eyes along with you over this whole
non story.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
The Lakers.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
What's their plans?
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Well, I think, given the Lakers, it's always fluid and
subject to change. But that being said, I think that philosophically,
you know what Rob Polinka said the exit interviews is
likely what's going to happen. They're going to lean more
toward trying to retain as much of their roster as
they have as opposed to going big game free agent hunting,
(23:30):
and so what that looks like. There's obviously an unknown,
as you know, Doug, with the free agent and the
cap implications. If I had a guess, I think for sure,
Austin Reeves really Hotchemore are back because of what they
were with growing as role players, the fact that they're
restricted free agents, so there's more flexibility for the Lakers
not only to obviously match offers, but to spend D'Angelo Russell.
(23:52):
I think it really just depends on what the market
value is for him from other teams. But I think
that they're mindful that as much as he had some struggles,
most notably in the Western Conference Finals, he was a
key piece to make the offense work a lot much
more efficiently than it was when Russell Westbrook was there.
And so with that, regardless of the unknown of exactly
(24:17):
how many of the Lakers free agents are retained this
upcoming offseason, I think it's safe to say we're not
seeing Kyrie Irving in a Lakers uniform. We're not seeing
Trey Young in a Lakers uniform. I think that even
though the circumstances are different, the Russell Westbrook experience, I
think really reinforced the Lakers the cons of not having
(24:41):
enough roster balance when you're putting so much investment into
another star along with Lebron, and they do.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Celtics obviously had a disappointing finish to a great regular
season and ups and downs in the playoffs. Right down
three games two, they come back beat the six Ers
twelve and Jason Tatum is awesome. Down three games to none,
they come back, force the game seven, Tatum rolls his
ankle and a no show offensively.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
What do they do in the offseason?
Speaker 8 (25:11):
Yeah, it's it's really interesting, Doug, because I think that
I'm with you. They collapsed, they underachieved, et cetera. And
I certainly had criticisms of you know, Joe Mozulla as
well as you know, just how they played as a unit.
But I think that practically speaking, it's a lot easier
if they retain what they have now and deal with
(25:31):
everything later, because I think that that's really the best
case scenario. I mean, the reality is, you know, Joe
Mozula might deserve scrutiny, It certainly deserves scrutiny for some
of his shortcomings. During the playoffs, but he also deserves
praise for growing to get them back to a three
to three you know series tie. You know, Jalen Brown,
Jason Tatum. They showed growth in the last year with coexisting.
(25:54):
I think it was revealing though that Jason Tatum has
an injury and this is a time for Jalen Brown
on to take over, and he did it. But I
think with that they have shown that they can have
some success, gained to the finals and then just improving from
within from last season. And so even though there are
question marks, I think that it's easier to just keep
(26:17):
everything you have and if you have to make changes,
do that next season, whether it's trades or coaching changes.
Then I think that if nothing else, even though that
no doubt they're expected to contend for a title and
this is disappointing, they're much better off, at least in
the short term, you know, going with what they have now.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Mark, awesome stuff. Let's let's talk some more as the
finals get started. Appreciate your time and join us on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 8 (26:44):
Doug appreciate you as always.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
All Right, that's my guy, Mark Medina, Fox Sports Radio,
NBA Insider. Let's get to Jason Stewart with the news.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
No, no, this is the herd line news, Doug.
Speaker 6 (26:58):
As people try to find ore lines here to pass
the time before the NBA Finals, Denver's altitude has become
a narrative. Now I didn't know if I don't know
if you knew this, but Denver is a mile high
from sea level?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Ye is it?
Speaker 6 (27:15):
And uh? And players have struggled up there. Athletes have
struggled Now this was an interesting angle and and uh.
Kevin Garnett on his certified KG certified on Showtime said
this told a story about what the Nuggets pulled on
him once.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
Phones I got to ask you, man, I was the elevation, like, oh, real?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Is real?
Speaker 8 (27:41):
Real?
Speaker 7 (27:42):
You know?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
They games? Just your mintell. Welcome to Denver.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
If you start feeling faint, it is because you are
above you liked up hold on two thousand having a
panic tail.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think I.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
Failed, Doug. You said that the altitude becomes a major factor,
not necessarily in the first twenty four hours, but in
the first forty eight hours.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Well, okay, so here's what it's like. When I played
in college, we played Colorado. My brother's been assistant coaching
college for twenty eight years. And let's see here, he
was eight at San Diego State, six at CAL six
Oregon State. San Diego State was in the Mountain West,
(28:42):
which when he was first in it, them and TCU
were the only schools that were Sea level. And then
of course when you're in the Pac ten then Pac twelve,
you play Utah and Colorado every year, and so a
couple of things. One, it's a real thing. I mean,
it's actually like physics, and in your first game, yeah,
(29:06):
it'll hit you in the usually in the fourth quarter.
But everybody is different, like some people adjust do it
better than others, and you can't really plan for that.
But what they always say in the Pac twelve is like, hey,
careful about that second game because you're in Utah, you
go to Colorado or vice versa, and you become oxygen deprived.
(29:27):
Your body has it takes a couple of weeks for
your body to adjust to it. And so like NFL
teams a lot of times they'll fly in the night
before they're going to play the Broncos. In college football,
you fly in as as quickly as possible so your
body doesn't become oxygen deprived.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
The Celtics. That was a real thing that they.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Were flying out the day after the night of when
the Heat when they beat the Celtics, and so they're
in Denver. I don't love the idea of being there
this long, even though the NBA mandates that they have
to be there a couple days before for the interviews.
And it's a real thing. It affects different guys differently.
The Heat are widely considered the best conditioned team in
(30:07):
the NBA, but the Nuggets played to it. They play fast,
they pushed with great temple and pace, and I think
end of Game one and all of Game two it
will likely be an.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
Issue shifting to the NFL. Doug Dennis Allen has been
asked to answer for this. This week, he brought in
former Raiders head coach John Gruden. In a lot of circles,
you think that he's been kind of ostracized from the NFL.
But Dennis Allen said this about bringing in his new quarterback,
(30:39):
Derek Carr's former coach number one.
Speaker 9 (30:42):
We've had several coaches come and visit. Obviously, John's a
guy that has a lot of experience with Derek, and
Derek's had his most success under John Gruden, and so
we felt like bringing him in, having a chance to
down and visit with him as an offensive staff with quarterbacks,
(31:06):
and just get some new thoughts and ideas things that
we might be able to implement. You know, I would
say this, I would say, you know, offensively, for a
long time that I've been here, we've been We've been
pretty effective offensively, and so I don't see us putting
in a whole new offense or doing something dramatic, but
(31:28):
you know, if there's a few ideas that we could
take from that, we felt like that would be beneficial.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
So who's given him grief over?
Speaker 6 (31:36):
Well, reporters were asking him why, And I think the
reporters kind of the angle on this was John Gruden
hasn't surfaced since he was let go. Why John Gruden?
We get the connection here, but given his I guess
reputation and how things ended with the Raiders, I think
that it's odd to say the least.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I think it's not a it's not ad I mean,
just be totally candid with you, reporters and people who
question this, honestly, they're either being disingenuous or they're.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Just completely complete idiots.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
This is all of sport, all of business. Where you
bring in a consultant who has been successful in the field,
there are like, look, there are dudes that got me too,
and you don't want them running your company anymore.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You don't want them around females.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
But if they have some knowledge on how to be successful, meanwhile,
they're going through their own kind of personal professional reapp
If you're.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Like, hey, how do I make a movie?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
And you have a really successful filmmaker, there are some
people that it's just too far gone through.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
They're Gruden stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
He's incredibly well respected for his attention to detail. And oh,
by the way, he has his former quarterback. This happens everywhere.
Coaches who get fired in college, they come in and
consult take notes while much practice, give a couple ideas
in the NFL. Happens in the business world, happens all
the time. It doesn't mean you're hiring him to run
(33:07):
your franchise or to be your offensive coordinator. But if
you have the chance to have John Green, hey, why
don't you take a look at this and tell us
what you think. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? The
guy is a football savant. The stuff that got him
in trouble was all the other stuff. But in terms
of football, especially in building a relationship with Derek Carr
(33:29):
and things that might work, I don't know if there's
a better human being alive to do that.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
That's Jason Stewart in the news.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Who's the blame of the Packers break up with Aaron Rodgers?
A new article details the off seasons of the past
three years. You hear about it next in the Hurt.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 10 (33:58):
Hey got miss Jay Glazers of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast,
and each week we try to help turn our mental
health issues into mental wealth and we dive in with
everyone from the world of sports and entertainment like Sean McVay,
Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelps, David Spade, Got Fievy and also
those who could help us in between the ears, anyone
(34:19):
from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for John Gordon.
So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a
mental health podcast on iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get podcasts.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Doug ot Leaving for Cong's The Herd, Fox Sports Radio,
iHeart Radio app. Oh, this is a good one. This
is a good one. Good one, right. Don't you love
the juicy details of a breakup? What he say and
then what she say, and then what he say and
then what she say?
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Right? Well, that's what we have in The Athletic. Uh.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Matt Schneedman covers the Packers for The Athletic, and he
detailed the breakup and breakdown of the relationship between Aaron
Rodgers and Brian Goodenkints, essentially Aaron Rodgers and the Green
Bay Packers. He talked to Aaron Rodgers like Aaron Rodgers
kind of took him through what happened after.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Jordan Love was drafted.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
For example, did I want to Rogers said years down
the line, go, well, if we had just taken somebody
who could impact our team because we had just gone
to the NFC championship game.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Of course Rogers said that the Packers isn't a draft Love.
I don't think any competitor would say anything different. So
Rogers is trying to make it out that it wasn't
that they drafted Jordan Love. It's that Hey, they just
went to the NFC Championship game, and everyone knows that
if you draft a quarterback like it's a in order.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
For him to play, Aaron has to sit.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
So and that wasn't happening, and it was a future selection,
so he wouldn't you know, he wouldn't t Higgins for example,
was available, taken in the first second round, I would
have helped the green Bay Packers, According to a source
associate with the team who was granted anonymity to candidly
(36:10):
discuss the sensitive dynamics between the front office and the
star quarterback, early in the twenty twenty one off season,
done rogers agent called Mark Murphy to request one of
two things, trade Rogers or fire Brian Goodenkinz.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Murphy did neither.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Months later, news broke that Rogers wanted out of Green Bay,
but the Packers held firm. It goes to the twenty
twenty one off season. Okay, so this is obviously not
last year. It's the previous year.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
So in the previous year, remember that's when he was
holding out. I was when he didn't know if he
want to come back. What was going on after the
first practice of camp, Rogers aired his grievances, saying he
wanted changes to the organization's communication and culture. According to Rogers,
the communication between I and gouden Kunst improved, but quote,
(37:05):
it still wasn't anywhere near what I've already enjoyed here
with the Jets in just a few short weeks. So
the Jets in a new relationship, they want to be open, honest,
full lines of communication. According to the source, the next
offseason this is last year's last offseason, the Packers weren't
(37:25):
satisfied with rogers commitment and effort right not only during
voluntary OTAs, but day to day basis afterwards. Rogers takes
exception to the thought that the team wanted more from
him in the months after giving him the richest contract
in NFL history. When I'm in, I'm all in. You
just want to ride or die with off season workouts.
(37:46):
I won the MVP without doing off season workouts. Like
my commitment level was any less, then, I'd say not
at all. The way I came back to work, not
just physically in good shape, but mentally refreshed, is the
thing that for me was the reason I was able
(38:06):
to have the season I wanted to in Green Bay.
You fast forward to this offseason and Good and Cunts
and Rogers agreed to meet in person in southern California,
where Rodgers lives.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
In the off season.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Good and Cunts was traveling in January to the NFLPA
Collegiate Bowl.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
They never connected.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
And this is that story that many people have talked about,
that there was a disconnect because the Packers wouldn't FaceTime him. Quote,
I have zero or one bar at the house. This
is Aaron Rodgers. So you call me. Sometimes it goes through.
Most times it doesn't go through. Everybody who knows me
knows when I'm out west. They know how to get
(38:46):
a hold of me. So you can say whatever you want.
But that's the effing truth. Before I went into darkness,
I hit him up and said, here's some stuff swirling
around here. We should get together you me and Matt
and texted me more than I text him. Yeah, But
did I ghost to him?
Speaker 5 (39:03):
No.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
I texted him back and there was back and forth
that we had. And so this is the story that
you want to go with. You're gonna stand on this
hill of austerity and say, arguably, in the conversation the
best player in your franchise history. You're gonna say, I
couldn't get a hold of him, and that's why we
had to move on. Like, come on, just tell the truth.
You want to move on. You didn't like the fact
(39:24):
that we didn't communicate all the time. Listen, I talk
to the people that I like. I mean, Aaron Rodgers
contradicts himself and tells you who he really is in
all of these statements. Like first he's like, look, man,
I want open lines of communication.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
They won't try to communicate with you.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
You didn't want to communicate back with them, And your
defense is I communicate all the time with the people
I like.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I didn't like Brian Goodenkunz.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
I didn't like him, And so there was this thing
was over two years ago, three years ago when they
drafted Jordan Love. There's no way you can read this
article in which Aaron Rodgers defends they wanted me to
show up for OTAs I need to.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Be refreshed, like it's not all about you. Rogers is
probably right. It probably is.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Refreshing to get away, to go on a trip, to
go hiking, to go find yourself. But when you're trying
to involve new wide receivers and have a new connection
and be one with the team and be connected. You
gotta be there. You got to be there. It's like
(40:35):
they say about parenting. Most important thing about parenting, it's
just showing up. Most important thing about relationships is open
lines of communication. And Rogers saying I want to communicate,
but I communicate plenty with the people I like, tells
you he didn't like Brian Cunnekins, so he communicated as
much as was needed in order to keep the UH,
(40:56):
in order to keep some form of relationship going. All right,
Coming up next, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd.
Today is decision day.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
For what are you in or you out?
Speaker 6 (41:13):
For what?
Speaker 4 (41:15):
I'll explain next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the hurd
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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