May 31, 2023 • 42 mins
More thoughts on the NBA Finals and Michael Malone's comments
Teams we love to see lose
Guest: Daniel Jeremiah
#douggottliebshow
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be, however, you may be making us part of
your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for
Colin Cowhard for the next hour. How don't we talking
about sports? H Daniel Jeremiah, draft analyst for the NFL
(00:46):
Network and The Sticks podcast host, of course, the analyst
for the LA Chargers Radio games Radio, calls, we'll join
us up coming in twenty minutes. We're two days away?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Is it two days away? Or are we a day
and a half away? Two sleeps from the NBA Finals?
This is like, no, it's two slop Well, No, today's Wednesday,
one sleep? Sorry, we're one day away? Are we a
day away? Or yeah? I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Honestly, here's what screwed me up? Is it screwed me up.
This is real. The holiday screws up because we worked
on the holiday. Everybody else off on the holiday. But
then you come back to working the day after the
holiday and you're like, wait a second, I totally forgot.
Today is today? Is Wednesday? Correct? It is Wednesday. I
(01:51):
know it's the thirty first. It's Wednesday, which means that
the first NBA Finals game is tomorrow night at the
East five thirty on the West. So one more sleep.
I guess it's a it's a day away. It's a
day and how many hours six and a half hours,
(02:13):
So we're thirty Yeah, really thirty four hours away, day
and a half away. One sleep, Heat Nuggets, NBA Finals.
I think it's gonna be fun series, of course. I
think the Nuggets are going to win. Not because of
their regular season record, don't care, not even because they've
(02:38):
won the last six games in the playoffs, you know,
or they've won what is it, nine of their last
eleven games in the playoffs. Overall, they've only lost three games,
and you know, two of them were in Phoenix to
unbelievable effort, unbelievable scoring efforts really by by two d
(03:00):
you know, Booker and Durant scored what was it one game,
it was like seventy two points together. But outside of that,
I mean, they were the They've been the best team
seemingly all season long. Obviously, the Bucks had a better record,
the Nuggets had the best record in the West, and
(03:23):
they're the best team standing. The Heat went one and
one in the playing games. The Heat are in eight seed,
an eight seed, and so Mike Malone, who of course
is the head coach of the Nuggets, a one seed,
a team that's lost three games in three series in
(03:44):
the playoffs, says seeds don't matter.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Take a listen, forget the eight seed stuff. They beat
Milwaukee four to one, team that had the most wins
in the NBA this year. They beat Boston four to three,
and they're up three to zero team. But I think
the second most wins in the NBA this year is
So you get to the NBA Finals, it's not a
best seeding anymore. You're trying to win the first NBA
championship in franchise history. It's gonna be the hardest thing
(04:08):
that we've ever done, which is the way it should be.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I mean, like, let's be honest and point out that
when they played the Bucks, Giannis missed two and a
half games, right, miss two and a half games, And
but Jimmy Butler was awesome, but he missed two and
a half games. Beat the Celtics straight up, straight up
without Tyler. Herro beat him. Yes, they were up three
games to none and they earned all of those. They
(04:33):
were the better team, and it wasn't like there was
some fluky you know. Game three wasn't closed really. Game
one they were the better team. Game two was kind
of a toss up game. But I just I find
it like comical the Hey, even when we were the
prohibitive favorite, even when we've been a dominant team in
(04:55):
the playoffs and we had the best record in the West.
Even with all of that said, records don't matter, right,
records don't matter. I mean, we see this in so
many different elements of life, where people constantly want to
everyone wants to be the underdog, everyone wants to come
(05:15):
from nothing. You ever noticed that. Have you ever spoken
to somebody when you go like, hey, what was it
like growing up? Man? I was just, you know, things
were good. I lived in negated community, and my parents
both worked and we had a nanny, and the nanny
was cool, and I always had every meal taken care
of and I went to a private It's like, no,
(05:37):
it's not physically possible. But any human being you talked to,
you grew up poor. Anybody grew up poor. Like I
tell my story. My parents both had college degrees. My
parents both worked. I grew up in Orange, California, moved
(06:00):
to Orange in nineteen eighty one. My dad was a
coach at an assistant coach at Long Beach State three
years and he got fired. My mom was a secretary
at Lombey State. Then she used her her ability to
be an interior designer, which she had gone to school
for and she had worked with before. And she worked
(06:21):
for a couple of different firms. Then eventually they started
an interior design company. Like I didn't grow up in
any way wealthy. There were some tough time when they
got fired. He had a Honda nineteen seventy six Honda
Civic that the odometer had actually turned over on and
when money was tight, I remember he there was an
issue with the starter on the car, so we had
(06:42):
to push start the car on a daily basis, and
you would just hope that it wouldn't you know, go
out in front of your school, man, I can't be
pushed out my dad's car in front of the school.
But I like, I'm not going to sit here and
tell you that I worried about my next meal. My
(07:03):
dad may not have managed his finances all too well,
but I didn't suffer necessarily because of it. You know,
it was okay. I didn't know. I didn't really know
any better. I knew when you go to people's houses
that were nicer and bigger, and I knew there were
people's houses that were not as nice. But if you
(07:25):
talk to people and tell me that's not the case.
If I ask you where you're from, everyone has their
same sub li Man. It's like the old grandpa thing
like walk to walk to school barefoot, uphill both ways.
That's how we all talk about it. It's impossible for
us all to have grown up poor. It's impossible for
us all to be underdogs and all to somehow Like
(07:47):
even Lebron James will say this sometimes where you'll go
like I wasn't meant to be here. Like, Bro, you're
six nine two hundred six eight two hundred and sixty pounds,
You're remarkably athletic, and your athletic skills matches directly with
like you look like what a basketball player, if they
worked out in their body like would look like. But
(08:08):
even you go back to when he was coming out
of high school, complete freak athletic, Like where else were
you meant to be? But have you noticed that we
all grew up poor Jay stew I'll bet you couldn't
rub two Nichols together right when you were growing up.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Well, I mean there's the rough streets of Brea at California. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, And coaches do the same thing as well.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
No, no, no.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
When you're the favorite, no no, no ratings Vegas, they
know me to anything. When you're the other dog, everybody
hates us. Nobody believes in this.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Jim Calhoun, the Hall of Fame coach at Yukon one
was it four national titles?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
No, he went he won three, right, I think he
won three, and then Kevin Ollie won one, and then
Danny Hurley just won one. Jim Calhoun, he used to
do this thing where you'd go when you'd go to
one of their practices early in the season, and he'd
come over and he talk to you. It was hard
to understand him because it's such a thick Boston accent.
He's talked really fast. Yeah, it is terrible, terrible, not
(09:13):
good soft. You know, you'd watch him and he's like, no,
well just not any good. When I any get is
that Ray Allen out there?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Nothing?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And so like you file that in your brain, like,
here's a Hall of Fame coach is talking to you
candidly and telling you're not any good, and so you
kind of downplay them. And he'd tell the local media
the same thing, we're not any good. You lose the game,
say I tell you we're not any good. It's just
better than us. So by the time you got to
like I don't know, January February, you're like, ah, they're
just okay this year. And then he turned it on
(09:43):
the team like like they don't believe in you. I
believe in you that like you were the one who
told us you weren't any good. He'd make his team
into underdogs in everybody's mind. It's the reality. It's just
a mental mind game. And look what Mike Malone saying
is is correct. This is a Miami Heat team that
say what you want about see like it. You have
to prove yourself. In the NBA Playoffs is seven game series.
(10:05):
The best team wins, the best and sometimes healthiest team wins.
But look they y'all has played when they beat Milwaukee,
so they they embarrassed the New York Knicks. Nick's had
a chance to make it go back to New York,
but they embarrassed in some ways. The New York Knicks.
(10:28):
I mean, think about how they've unseed. They that and
you can say seed doesn't matter, but when you have
undrafted players accounting for how many points a game is
it it's like fifty eight points per game for undrafted
players in the last series. Mike Malone can say it
(10:52):
doesn't matter, but it's sure as hell mattered to the
teams that they Heat beat. Right, Look what's happened. The
Bucks lose to the Heat, they fire their coach. The
Knicks lose to the Heat, they fire their general manager.
The Celtics lose to the Heat. And I don't know,
we're gonna fire this coach. We're we gonna get rid
(11:12):
of Jalen Brown. And I understand that no one handles
losing well at the ultra competitive professional level, but it
does say something about the lack of respect I think
the Heat have in terms of their personnel that you
(11:32):
got dudes getting fired because they lost to the Heat,
and are there other factors? Of course, of course, like
Mike Budenholzer didn't get fired just because of that series.
He probably got fired because he wouldn't put Giannis on
Jimmy Butler, even though Jannis wanted to guard Jimmy Butler.
But Mike, it wasn't a one time thing, right, There
had been previous early exits in the playoffs and previous
(11:55):
lack of adjustments and it just came to a head
and it gave them the opportunity to get new owners,
so they fired him. But it is to me, what
does it say about the Heat that three series and
head coach GM and maybe head coach get fired after
losing to him. Mike Malone's trying to paint this picture
(12:18):
that Seeds don't matter. They're really great, you know, look
at who they've beaten. But the fact is that all
he's trying to do is he's been complaining and doing
the underdog. Nobody cares about us, nobody believes in us.
You know, here we are, we got this great player
that people haven't watched play and woe is me. Give
us some attention, give us some love, give us some sugar,
(12:40):
and now you're the favorite. And you're like, Ah, seeds
don't matter, Vegas doesn't matter. I mean, I guess it's
the reality of the psychology of sport and of motivating people.
Seems transparent to me.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
At the end of your first year, Discover credit cards
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yourself at discover dot com slash match. I'm Doug gottlieb
In for Colin Cowherd. What's the best fit for Star
wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins. I'm gonna ask uh Daniel Jeremiah.
He's gonna join us up coming next.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Doug Golibin for Counts the Herd, Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio App.
We got a great best for last for you, one
of my favorite we've we've ever compiled here in The
Herd Okay, so there's an article out in The Athletic
which kind of takes both sides into what happened the
(13:49):
breakdown between the Packers the last couple off seasons and
Aaron Rodgers uh, DeAndre Hopkins on the market, lots of
teams talking about kicking the tires, but what's his actually
will value? And then there's the Jimmy Garoppolo situation where
he's got a contract that's not really insured, he had
(14:10):
another surgery, another injury, and could Tom Brady be looming
if Jimmy G at some point in time gets hurt,
because well he's He's Jimmy G. No one would know
more than our next guest. His name is Daniel Jeremiah's
the NFL Analysts. He co hosts Moved the Sticks, which
is a really good podcast, and you also see him
(14:30):
on the NFL Draft of the NFL Network, and you
can hear him call Chargers games on the on our
sister station here in Los Angeles. DJ. Let's uh, let's
let's let's start in Vegas. Jimmy Garoppolo has had just
a litany of injuries. But what's your reaction to this
story that's come out recently? About the additional surgery that
(14:52):
he had.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Well, two things, Doug. Number One, it explains where there
was a little bit of a delay one they were
getting the deal done, So that that makes some sense.
I would be you know, I would be worried about
Jimmy Garoppolo is staying healthy without even having that information,
just based off of his track record. So you know,
to me, it sounds like they're kind of covering their
(15:16):
They're covering themselves in case this is not something that
they feel good about as we get closer towards the season.
I would not have a high degree of confidence if
I were a Raider fan that you're going to see
you know, Jimmy Garoppolo for a full schedule, even before
this information came out. So that doesn't really change my
thinking from that standpoint. And then on the Brady stuff,
I don't buy anything about Tom Brady coming back. Tom
(15:38):
Brady's only cared about one thing his whole career, which
is about legacy and championships. And he's smart enough to
know that that is not a championship roster. It might
not be a playoff roster.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Why do you think he's buying into part of a
team that I I can't. I know, Mark Davis has
never been cash heavy, but they're obviously making a lot
more money in Vegas. Would that be the team to
invest in?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Probably because he got the best deal, you know. I
think that that, you know, there was a there was
a want and a desire on Mark Davis's then to
have Tom Brady associated with him. And I'm sure you
know just that that he sees value maybe that some
other teams don't, just in terms of that association. So
(16:23):
that that's what it looks like to me on the outside.
I don't know how many people want to part with,
you know, with ownership shares in the way these teams
are raking in money. Maybe he was a little more
willing to give him a little more, a little more
juice there than the other teams.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
M okay help me out with with this one. Dana
Jeremia is our guest. DeAndre Hopkins. What's what's his value?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I think it's Look, I don't think it's a it's
a situation where there should be a ton of bidders
in this. I think it's very select teams and I
really think it comes down to that makes sense, and
it's in a short term basis, but it's the two
teams that are going to be slugging it out in
the AFC with Buffalo and Kansas City. Those are the
two that I can make sense of it. I think
(17:11):
it makes sense for him to go pair up with
one of those two guys and see if he can
have a really good year and get somebody else to
give him maybe a little bit more of a long
term commitment. I don't think he's nearly the player that
he was, but I think those offenses, the way they're
designed and with those quarterbacks, they'll be able to get
get it out of him for a year. So those
(17:31):
are the two teams that make the most sense, and
it has to make the most sense on a short
term basis where everybody gets what they want out of
this deal.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, can he still run.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
No, But he's one of the best contested catch receivers
that we've had in the last twenty years. So that
was never you know, he was never a blazing fast guy.
That was never the key part of his game. He's
won on back shoulder throws, can test to catches down
the field. That's who he is and that should age
a little bit better than somebody that was speed, you know, reliant?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Is he is he as precise as a Keenan Allen.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
No, No, I don't think he's that. He's not that
type of a route runner. Keenan. You know, neither one
of those guys are fast, right Keenan. Keenan can still
separate because of what he does as a route runner.
He is a technician as a route runner. De Hof
has been more about just kind of he was. He
was a good route runner. He's you know, he's not
like he's terrible, but he's not on a Keenan Allen
(18:30):
level in terms of a route runner. His his money
has been made plucking the ball off ahead the DBS.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
No, no doubt. I just I do wonder with you know,
when you you lose a step that you didn't really have,
what does that actually look like?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Do you become like the contest even the contested catches
become a little bit more difficult?
Speaker 4 (18:48):
But I would say this, Doug, the answer to that
is there's you know, we talk about receivers creating separation,
Elite elite quarterbacks can create separation too. That's why it
wouldn't make any sense for him to go to somebody's
other teams. He goes to one of those two teams
where those guys put the ball in a mailbox. You
don't necessarily need to have quite the separation some of
(19:08):
these other quarterbacks needs.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Lamar Jackson got some work in Tom Monkins to offense,
and they asked him to kind of sum it up,
and he's like, more more throwing, less running. Does that
make sense though, for Lamar Jackson, who's such an incredible runner.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Well, I think that's the plan. You know, the Mike
Mike Tyson line. Right, everybody has a plan till you
hit in the face. I mean that that can't be
the plan. And if they go out and they lose
three of their first four games, I think you'll see
them revert back to using his legs more. I think
the fact that you've paid him now, I think that.
I think, honestly, it makes it an easier conversation to have,
(19:45):
you know, in the past, working year to year. If
you're Lamar Jackson, you're like, guys, I mean, come on,
you guys are gonna run me into the ground. You're
gonna kill my value and my health is a concern.
I think the fact that they have that commitment in place,
the long term commitment, and he's been take care of.
I would think it should be a simple conversation of hey,
this is what we want to do. We want to
(20:05):
throw the ball more than we have. We don't want
you to run it as much. Maybe you know, when
you see opportunities that present themselves off pass plays, you
can take off and go because it seems to be
that's a safer route for a quarterback to take off
and run on a patch play versus design quarterback runs.
But if this thing goes south four or five games
end of the season, you know, I think that, hey,
we got to look at this thing together and say,
(20:27):
this is not what's best for us. We have to change.
We have to go back to doing it a little
bit the way you did it before. And some of
that that risk that you were worried about should be
alleviated by the fact we cut you a big check.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Hey, help me out. Did you see the article I'm
sure you have in the Athletic but Air between Aaron Rodgers, Yeah,
and the Packers and the back and forth.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Well, when you read it, I was gonna I was
gonna call you about it, Doug, But then I remembered
you only do FaceTime and so well.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I you know my house, my house, only only one
bar at my house, you know, the only one bar.
So so facetiming, I just the more Aaron Rodgers doubles
down it like I wanted more communication, but then when
they try to communicate with me, I got back to
him the next day. Maybe I didn't ghost him, That's
(21:13):
what that's he actually said. Right, well, you know, uh,
you know two years previous, I want open lines of
communication like I have now with the Jets. They try
to communicate with You're like, eh, what's your takeaway?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
This relationship was over the second that that pick was made,
and all the rest of it is. You know, it's
just a game that both sides can play. I guess
Aaron's probably played it more aggressively than the Packers have
in some ways. I came away reading that thinking, you know,
the Packers might have might might have their cake and
(21:49):
eat it too here because they got a after that selection.
I mean, everybody is documented. I went back to back MVP.
You through that situation created a highly motive Aaron Rodgers.
You've got the absolute most out of him. The play
slipped a little bit last year so it's a perfect
time to, you know, to transition to Jordan Love, who
(22:10):
in in an era where we have to throw these
quarterbacks in the microwave. They got a chance to put
him in the oven and really properly developed Jordan Love.
So it worked out and then they got they got
a nice haul in the trade. So I don't know,
I think the and.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
They got Jordan Love. It's like it's like eight million
a year for the next two years with literally nothing.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Yeah, they you know, and we always say you want
to pay you want to pay guys for their prime.
You don't want to pay them beyond their prime. And
they they they paid Eric handsomely, but they got his prime.
And as these numbers get ginormous, you know that the
Jets take on and assume that risk. Now, I do
still in saying that, think that the way Aaron's wired,
and you can see it in that article, you know,
(22:56):
kind of to stick it to you nature that he
has that that makes him tick. I think you'll see
him have a better year for the Jets this year
than he would have had if he gone back to
the Packers. Now, when you get beyond this year, then
I have my doubts, but I think you'll see him
play well this year, that Jets will be happy. I
think the Packers are going to be happy with the
timing of how this whole thing worked out. But that
(23:17):
you know, there's all these articles, there's going to be
more that are going to be written, There's been press conferences.
We're going to parse every single word. This relationship ceased
to exist once they took Jordan Love he was done.
He was Aaron Rodgers was done with them, and it
was just a matter of time before it ended.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I agree with you, but should it? Should it have?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I said the Packers. The one thing that I thought
that the Packers made a mistake is I thought that
if they, you know, they wanted to maintain their relationship
in good standing with Aaron Rodgers, that during the draft process,
and this could have been two weeks before the draft,
a month before the draft, but a call in a
(23:59):
conversation with him of hey, I don't think it's likely
that this will happen, but we do have, you know,
two or three quarterbacks that we really like that are
expected to go much higher in the draft. If somehow
they got around the range where we are, we would
seriously consider taking them, just because it's our job to
look after the long term entrance of the organization. Obviously,
(24:20):
you're playing great, but if that opportunity presented itself, we
didn't want it to be a surprise to you. And
you know, I think that conversation had taken place, I
think it would have gone a long way in making
that a little bit smoother. But even having said that,
you're still taking a guy at a position that's that's
going to piss him off, So you know, it's you know,
I think that was the only chance they had at
salvaging that relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Daniel Jeremiah joining us from the NFL Network, and of
course also the Move the Sticks podcast which is on
the network, you can download it, and and of course
he's the analyst for the LA Chargers radio games. I
don't know if you heard what Christian McCaffrey had to
say about running backs and their value. His point is like, look,
(25:02):
we touched the ball, he said, we touched about more
than anybody else that would be as opposed to the quarterback,
you know, and hits you in three phases, basically decrying
the crying about the fact that the salary's numbers, the
year salary is going down, and guys are replaceable, they're
not getting these long term extensions. Is there any truth
(25:23):
to that? McCaffrey feels like their value is being diminished,
even if their value in a game plan is not diminished.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
To me, it's not the issue of the value. It's
it's the issue of the shelf life. Nobody's going to
argue that Le'Veon Bell and Todd Gurley weren't valuable to
their teams in their first couple of years in the league.
They were incredibly valuable. And they weren't just running back.
They were catching the ball to the backfield, doing all
kinds of things. Then they both got paid on a
second contract and they both physically fell apart. That's been
(25:56):
the issue. It has not been whether or not these
guys are valuable and help you in football games. Have
just been whether or not that second contract coming around
if there's value there. And I know he pointed to
you know Emmett and uh, you know Barry Sanders and
some guys that played well beyond their first contracts and
more valuable players. I just think that it's you know,
the long track record, especially of late, has been You're
(26:18):
way more likely to see guys peter out and struggle
on that second deal than you are going to see
guys make teams look smart by paying them. So he's
one of the exceptions. You know, people look at his
tower and say, oh, how do you pay a running
back that much? Well, he's been able, he's been able
to get out there and be available, and all the
things he do he does is you know, is elite, elite, elite,
So there's value. I've never questioned the value of running back.
(26:41):
To me, it's been about the shelf life.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
All right, I appreciate you join USDJ, I know you
got to run. Thanks so much for being our guest
in the Herd.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
You're the best buddy, see man.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
All right, Dan and Jeremiah joining us here in the Hurt.
Let's get to Jason Stewart with the news No No.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Is the Herd Line News.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Doug.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
We've just heard Daniel Jeremiah give his reasoning for why
he doesn't think Tom Brady will play for the Raiders. Basically,
the Raiders are not a championship team right now, and
Daniel doesn't think that Tom would be interested in doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Now.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Troy Aikman was run down by TMZ and he had
this to say about Tom Brady returning.
Speaker 7 (27:24):
I wouldn't rule anything out. He obviously, you know, has
a relationship with the head coach, he knows the offense,
He'll keep himself in great shape. I'm a big Jimmy
Garoppolo fan, so I'm really pulling for him. But I
you know, I would bet that just nothing's off the
table as far as you know what may occur during
the season or what Tom's role may be. I think
(27:47):
he's done playing, but you just never know. Those things
kind of just happen out of nowhere. You don't really predict.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
Him now, Doug. I don't know about the Raiders specific situation,
but when I think about Tom Brady return for essentially
a third time, coming out of retirement for a third time,
I think at that point he becomes like a xerox
or a Q Tips, doesn't he It's like when any
athlete would ever retire after he does this or come
(28:13):
back from retirement, they'd be like, oh, he's pulling a
Tom Brady like. I just don't see him coming back
for a third time. Doug.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I don't either. I don't either. He's somewhere in the
Mediterranean on a boat. Do you see that? Or I
mean on a boat on a yacht. It's an interesting picture.
I don't think so either, But I you know, I
do think he loves football and he probably likes people
(28:43):
talking about him still coming back and playing. But I
agree with DJ like he's only doing it if he
thinks he's got a chance to win. That's why the
Miami thing made a whole lot a lot more sense.
You know, Miami is quality quarterback play away from competing
versus Bowl. They have so many when when healthy, they
have a really, really talented roster.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
In college football, Doug, something's coming up. The SEC Conference
is going to vote this week on whether or not
to change its schedule format from the eight game conference
for each team format that they have now that's existed
since nineteen ninety one with the with Texas and Oklahoma
(29:26):
joining next year. They're going to vote on one of
these two options, either an eight game model keep it
at eight games in conference, one permanent rival, seven rotating opponents,
or a nine game model with three permanent rivals and
six rotating opponents. Now, I guess this nine game format
(29:46):
is a sensitive topic around Kirby Smart of Georgia. He
calls it, quote unquote the most overrated conversation there ever was.
He basically said that if you're asking me about a
nine game format, I know you have nothing to write about.
Why is Smart so sensitive to this? Doug Uh?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Well, actually he has a pretty good reason, Okay, And first,
I guess part of it is the SEC is like,
why would we change We've been kicking everybody's ass anyway
for all these years. But like, let's take a look
at their schedule this upcoming season. Right, they play UT
Martin ball State, then they open SEC play with South Carolina,
(30:34):
and then their last game of the year is you know,
every year they played Georgia Tech I had two big
straight grit Land Grant institutions, so they have one written
in there, and they feel like, I'm sure they need
those guarantee games to develop their younger players, to rest
some of their star players and get ready for the
gauntlet that is the SEC.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
My challenge would be, I understand that a ninth SEC
game eats up on you. Right, That's what the Big
twelve has, That's what you know, the Pac twelve has,
That's what all these other conferences have, but they're like,
we're the better conference. We've got bigger bodies. They're going
to sustain more injuries. But the reason the two things.
(31:15):
One the playoff is expanding, So if you lose another
game because of SEC play, not as big a deal.
The counter to that is, with the playoff expanding, more
SEC teams get in more SEC games you play, the
likelihood is more injuries and more attrition that you've sustained. Okay,
so I would defend the SEC like, look, we're just
gonna stick with eight. See what the new landscape's like.
(31:36):
We've been dominating anyway, We're gonna dominate. We're gonna play people,
you know, they'll everybody plays at least one solid out
of conference game anyway. Does it really matter?
Speaker 6 (31:49):
You know?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But what's the point of expanding the playoff? What's the
point of expanding the league if you're not going to
have better teams in your building. I think they should
go to nine for the spirit of the sport. They
should go to nine. To make more money. They should
go to nine so that it parallels all the other conferences.
And if you're better, you're still better. On the other hand,
(32:13):
I do understand it hasn't mattered for the last twenty years.
We've been far and away the most dominant conference. Why
should we change now?
Speaker 6 (32:21):
Mentality, Doug, this is a juicy item. I mean, you've
worked with me long enough to know that I really
love smack talk. I really like juicy drama, especially between
former teammates. You remember Doug mccavich. It was a light
hitting first baseman for the Twins and he went I
(32:43):
think he joined a rod with the Yankees when they
won their title. I'm not sure about that. I know
they played together at some point. I think it was
on the Yankees. Doug ncavich went on a podcast and
said this about Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 8 (32:56):
It's painful.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
You know.
Speaker 8 (32:57):
It's like, wait a minute, like, can you not forget
you got suspend two hundred games and it's like, come on, man,
like stop it.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
I get it.
Speaker 8 (33:03):
I played a power position and didn't have any Did
it cross my mind? Yeah, of course you thought about it,
but I was like, you know what, I want to
be able to walk when I'm fifty. I always said
that he's gonna die lonely man, because you know what
this whole like, you know, father the year stuff, God
bless him for his daughters, because it's gonna come a
long way. But it's like you're just trying to get
(33:24):
into heaven out. Like that's the part. Like I'm still
friends with my high school team. We still text often,
not as often as we should, but we still text
group thread constantly bad badgering each other, and it's just,
you know, he's just distance from it. And that's I
don't care how good or how great you become and
how far your career goes you. Oh, you never forget
your high school dudes.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Now.
Speaker 6 (33:46):
A Rod sat down with them McKenzie Salmon on Sports
seriously and was just asked about this. And this is
a Rod's response.
Speaker 9 (33:55):
That was actually strange because I've always considered Doug a
friend and I was shocked and surprise, my daughter send
me the articles, my mom, my brother, all people that
really like Doug, and I was very close with his
mom and dad. But look, at the end of the day,
one thing I'll never do is, you know, speak poorly
about any of my teammates, especially a high school teammate.
(34:18):
So I wish him, well, what do.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
You make of a Rod taking the high road here? Doug?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I mean he Rid's a complete phony. Everybody knows that, right.
Does anybody not think a Rod's a complete and total phony?
He is just the most plastic dude ever. So I
think the reality is Doug man Kavitch says, I'm sure correct.
You know, I'm sure he's correct, and he's just kind
(34:44):
of matter of fact saying, like this guy he just
operates in his own world. And his response actually fits
it to where he's like, I'm not going to punch down.
There's no win there. What's the winning punching down? To
Doug man Kaevitch, I've like the guy was suspended twice,
four steroids twice, twice crazy and somehow has come out
(35:12):
as like the voice of Baseball on two different networks.
It's insane. So the only smart thing to do is
to not punch down. But that doesn't stop what Doug
man Caved is saying for being probably the most accurate
thing uttered about. That's Jason stewartt News.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd line.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Surprised. I always thought we were really good friends. I
was close with his mom and dad.
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Yeah, that's a low one. I was close with this family.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I was close with his mom and dad. No, No,
you aren't.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
No.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
What the follow up should have been, what's his mom
and dad's name? What's his Moment's out there? They still live?
Where do they live? You have their seven? Was the
last time you talked to them?
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Like?
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Because if you're close to somebody, like close to somebody's
close to somebody? What teams do we love to see lose?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
That's next in the Heart Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 10 (36:15):
Hey Gagni. Jay Lazer host of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast,
and each week we try to help turn our mental
health issues into mental wealth, and we dive in with
everyone from the world of sports and entertainment like Sean McVay,
Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelps, David Spade, got Fiemi, and also
those who could help us in between the ears, anyone
(36:35):
from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for John Gordon.
So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a
mental health podcast, on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get podcasts.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Doug Gottliven for Collins The Hurt Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio app.
You know, I was. I was trying to I was
trying to figure if there is any enjoyable parts to
a Game seven the other night, the Game seven the
other night, right, And I would say the only enjoyable
(37:09):
part was watching the Celtics lose, because, like the Celtics,
there is just so much discussion about tradition and the
seventeen titles. It's like, look, I agree that historically the
Boston Celtics great organization, unbelievable organization historically, but they've won
(37:38):
exactly one NBA championship since nineteen eighty six one now.
They've been to the NBA Finals two other times, have
been to the three other times. Excuse me, they've been
to the conference finals multiple times. They've been very, very competitive,
in fact, over the last decade, way more competitive than
(38:00):
say the Lakers. The difference is, obviously, the Lakers have
won far more titles since the eighties. So it was
enjoyable to see the Celtics and maybe the Celtics fans lose.
I don't think they're as arrogant. Yeah, you have some
(38:21):
dudes that yell stuff out of the stands, which is
which is disgraceful. You have some element to it you
don't love, but it's a really good organization that wins
a lot of games. But it did bring to my mind.
He sparked my mind on where the five franchises or
teams that we enjoy seeing lose the most. It's part
(38:43):
of our Best for Last.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
It's almost the end of the show. But that doesn't
mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind the very
last segment. It's time for Best for Last.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Oh yeah, so I understand, like this year was fun
to see the Grizzlies lose, but it has to be
like a yearly thing, like every year when they lose,
it's a celebration. Let's get to number five.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Number five.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I think it's I could be wrong. I think it's
it's the Lakers. I really think it's the Lakers. And
I understand. I just said, well, the Celtics are enjoyable,
but not as enjoyable. The difference is one of the
Lakers have been more successful too. There is a certain
(39:32):
kind of confidence arrogance. But I here's the most important thing.
Lakers have had very few Kobe Bryant's one of the
only ones. Kobe and Magic homegrown players homegoing players. Shaq
was in Orlando, granted they low balled him, but Shack's
from Kareem was in Milwaukee Lebron. You know, pick one
(39:52):
of the two teams. So between their desire or maybe
ability to go in just get guys off other teams
or the Really it's the arrogance of the fan base.
Lakers at five. Number four hmm, let's see here. I
(40:13):
think Duke Zion Williamson was the one guy who changed
that and maybe it's different now with John Shire's head coach,
but in our lifetime, especially since they won back to
back titles and Mike Krzyzewski became the face of college
BASKETBA I at have of Duke. Duke losing was a
national celebration. Number three No Tre Dame football right again,
(40:36):
like the Celtics, most of their success is historical, says,
not recent, and recently they've been quite good, but every
time they get the NATS championship game they lose and
lose or semi finals losing, it's not close. Notre Dame
losing sets off a celebration probably unlike any other in
college football. Number two Yankees twenty seven titles, and also
(40:58):
they go get other people's play and they act like
and are better than other franchises seeing them lose as fun.
Number one Cowboys fits all the billing of the other
franchises that have had historical suggess, not recent success, incredibly popular.
(41:21):
Every year it's going to be their year. Some it's
pushed back on Jerry Jones. Some'st pushback on how much attention,
how they're always on TV, how they're America's team and
yet they don't actually win anything. Dallas Cowboys the most
fun team to lose, team to see lose. That's it
for our best last any additions or addendums you would
make Jason Stewart to that list.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
I think that's about right. But I think Alabama maybe
in the last ten years has kind of crept close
to that list.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. I mean obviously big celebrations
of the SEC when they lose. Now, Georgia has you know,
won the last two, so so we'll see if any
of that changes. Now they can like do the Mike
malonea make them into underdogs, all right, dud jmak is
in tomorrow, I believe correct. Jason McIntyres he's back from vacation.
I'll be in the Doug Gottlieb Show. Download my show
(42:13):
or my podcast.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
This is the hurt.
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Foxsports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be, however, you may be making us part of
your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for
Colin Cowhard for the next hour. How don't we talking
about sports? H Daniel Jeremiah, draft analyst for the NFL
(00:46):
Network and The Sticks podcast host, of course, the analyst
for the LA Chargers Radio games Radio, calls, we'll join
us up coming in twenty minutes. We're two days away?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Is it two days away? Or are we a day
and a half away? Two sleeps from the NBA Finals?
This is like, no, it's two slop Well, No, today's Wednesday,
one sleep? Sorry, we're one day away? Are we a
day away? Or yeah? I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Honestly, here's what screwed me up? Is it screwed me up.
This is real. The holiday screws up because we worked
on the holiday. Everybody else off on the holiday. But
then you come back to working the day after the
holiday and you're like, wait a second, I totally forgot.
Today is today? Is Wednesday? Correct? It is Wednesday. I
(01:51):
know it's the thirty first. It's Wednesday, which means that
the first NBA Finals game is tomorrow night at the
East five thirty on the West. So one more sleep.
I guess it's a it's a day away. It's a
day and how many hours six and a half hours,
(02:13):
So we're thirty Yeah, really thirty four hours away, day
and a half away. One sleep, Heat Nuggets, NBA Finals.
I think it's gonna be fun series, of course. I
think the Nuggets are going to win. Not because of
their regular season record, don't care, not even because they've
(02:38):
won the last six games in the playoffs, you know,
or they've won what is it, nine of their last
eleven games in the playoffs. Overall, they've only lost three games,
and you know, two of them were in Phoenix to
unbelievable effort, unbelievable scoring efforts really by by two d
(03:00):
you know, Booker and Durant scored what was it one game,
it was like seventy two points together. But outside of that,
I mean, they were the They've been the best team
seemingly all season long. Obviously, the Bucks had a better record,
the Nuggets had the best record in the West, and
(03:23):
they're the best team standing. The Heat went one and
one in the playing games. The Heat are in eight seed,
an eight seed, and so Mike Malone, who of course
is the head coach of the Nuggets, a one seed,
a team that's lost three games in three series in
(03:44):
the playoffs, says seeds don't matter.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Take a listen, forget the eight seed stuff. They beat
Milwaukee four to one, team that had the most wins
in the NBA this year. They beat Boston four to three,
and they're up three to zero team. But I think
the second most wins in the NBA this year is
So you get to the NBA Finals, it's not a
best seeding anymore. You're trying to win the first NBA
championship in franchise history. It's gonna be the hardest thing
(04:08):
that we've ever done, which is the way it should be.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
I mean, like, let's be honest and point out that
when they played the Bucks, Giannis missed two and a
half games, right, miss two and a half games, And
but Jimmy Butler was awesome, but he missed two and
a half games. Beat the Celtics straight up, straight up
without Tyler. Herro beat him. Yes, they were up three
games to none and they earned all of those. They
(04:33):
were the better team, and it wasn't like there was
some fluky you know. Game three wasn't closed really. Game
one they were the better team. Game two was kind
of a toss up game. But I just I find
it like comical the Hey, even when we were the
prohibitive favorite, even when we've been a dominant team in
(04:55):
the playoffs and we had the best record in the West.
Even with all of that said, records don't matter, right,
records don't matter. I mean, we see this in so
many different elements of life, where people constantly want to
everyone wants to be the underdog, everyone wants to come
(05:15):
from nothing. You ever noticed that. Have you ever spoken
to somebody when you go like, hey, what was it
like growing up? Man? I was just, you know, things
were good. I lived in negated community, and my parents
both worked and we had a nanny, and the nanny
was cool, and I always had every meal taken care
of and I went to a private It's like, no,
(05:37):
it's not physically possible. But any human being you talked to,
you grew up poor. Anybody grew up poor. Like I
tell my story. My parents both had college degrees. My
parents both worked. I grew up in Orange, California, moved
(06:00):
to Orange in nineteen eighty one. My dad was a
coach at an assistant coach at Long Beach State three
years and he got fired. My mom was a secretary
at Lombey State. Then she used her her ability to
be an interior designer, which she had gone to school
for and she had worked with before. And she worked
(06:21):
for a couple of different firms. Then eventually they started
an interior design company. Like I didn't grow up in
any way wealthy. There were some tough time when they
got fired. He had a Honda nineteen seventy six Honda
Civic that the odometer had actually turned over on and
when money was tight, I remember he there was an
issue with the starter on the car, so we had
(06:42):
to push start the car on a daily basis, and
you would just hope that it wouldn't you know, go
out in front of your school, man, I can't be
pushed out my dad's car in front of the school.
But I like, I'm not going to sit here and
tell you that I worried about my next meal. My
(07:03):
dad may not have managed his finances all too well,
but I didn't suffer necessarily because of it. You know,
it was okay. I didn't know. I didn't really know
any better. I knew when you go to people's houses
that were nicer and bigger, and I knew there were
people's houses that were not as nice. But if you
(07:25):
talk to people and tell me that's not the case.
If I ask you where you're from, everyone has their
same sub li Man. It's like the old grandpa thing
like walk to walk to school barefoot, uphill both ways.
That's how we all talk about it. It's impossible for
us all to have grown up poor. It's impossible for
us all to be underdogs and all to somehow Like
(07:47):
even Lebron James will say this sometimes where you'll go
like I wasn't meant to be here. Like, Bro, you're
six nine two hundred six eight two hundred and sixty pounds,
You're remarkably athletic, and your athletic skills matches directly with
like you look like what a basketball player, if they
worked out in their body like would look like. But
(08:08):
even you go back to when he was coming out
of high school, complete freak athletic, Like where else were
you meant to be? But have you noticed that we
all grew up poor Jay stew I'll bet you couldn't
rub two Nichols together right when you were growing up.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Well, I mean there's the rough streets of Brea at California. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, And coaches do the same thing as well.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
No, no, no.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
When you're the favorite, no no, no ratings Vegas, they
know me to anything. When you're the other dog, everybody
hates us. Nobody believes in this.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Jim Calhoun, the Hall of Fame coach at Yukon one
was it four national titles?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
No, he went he won three, right, I think he
won three, and then Kevin Ollie won one, and then
Danny Hurley just won one. Jim Calhoun, he used to
do this thing where you'd go when you'd go to
one of their practices early in the season, and he'd
come over and he talk to you. It was hard
to understand him because it's such a thick Boston accent.
He's talked really fast. Yeah, it is terrible, terrible, not
(09:13):
good soft. You know, you'd watch him and he's like, no,
well just not any good. When I any get is
that Ray Allen out there?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
Nothing?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
And so like you file that in your brain, like,
here's a Hall of Fame coach is talking to you
candidly and telling you're not any good, and so you
kind of downplay them. And he'd tell the local media
the same thing, we're not any good. You lose the game,
say I tell you we're not any good. It's just
better than us. So by the time you got to
like I don't know, January February, you're like, ah, they're
just okay this year. And then he turned it on
(09:43):
the team like like they don't believe in you. I
believe in you that like you were the one who
told us you weren't any good. He'd make his team
into underdogs in everybody's mind. It's the reality. It's just
a mental mind game. And look what Mike Malone saying
is is correct. This is a Miami Heat team that
say what you want about see like it. You have
to prove yourself. In the NBA Playoffs is seven game series.
(10:05):
The best team wins, the best and sometimes healthiest team wins.
But look they y'all has played when they beat Milwaukee,
so they they embarrassed the New York Knicks. Nick's had
a chance to make it go back to New York,
but they embarrassed in some ways. The New York Knicks.
(10:28):
I mean, think about how they've unseed. They that and
you can say seed doesn't matter, but when you have
undrafted players accounting for how many points a game is
it it's like fifty eight points per game for undrafted
players in the last series. Mike Malone can say it
(10:52):
doesn't matter, but it's sure as hell mattered to the
teams that they Heat beat. Right, Look what's happened. The
Bucks lose to the Heat, they fire their coach. The
Knicks lose to the Heat, they fire their general manager.
The Celtics lose to the Heat. And I don't know,
we're gonna fire this coach. We're we gonna get rid
(11:12):
of Jalen Brown. And I understand that no one handles
losing well at the ultra competitive professional level, but it
does say something about the lack of respect I think
the Heat have in terms of their personnel that you
(11:32):
got dudes getting fired because they lost to the Heat,
and are there other factors? Of course, of course, like
Mike Budenholzer didn't get fired just because of that series.
He probably got fired because he wouldn't put Giannis on
Jimmy Butler, even though Jannis wanted to guard Jimmy Butler.
But Mike, it wasn't a one time thing, right, There
had been previous early exits in the playoffs and previous
(11:55):
lack of adjustments and it just came to a head
and it gave them the opportunity to get new owners,
so they fired him. But it is to me, what
does it say about the Heat that three series and
head coach GM and maybe head coach get fired after
losing to him. Mike Malone's trying to paint this picture
(12:18):
that Seeds don't matter. They're really great, you know, look
at who they've beaten. But the fact is that all
he's trying to do is he's been complaining and doing
the underdog. Nobody cares about us, nobody believes in us.
You know, here we are, we got this great player
that people haven't watched play and woe is me. Give
us some attention, give us some love, give us some sugar,
(12:40):
and now you're the favorite. And you're like, Ah, seeds
don't matter, Vegas doesn't matter. I mean, I guess it's
the reality of the psychology of sport and of motivating people.
Seems transparent to me.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
At the end of your first year, Discover credit cards
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yourself at discover dot com slash match. I'm Doug gottlieb
In for Colin Cowherd. What's the best fit for Star
wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins. I'm gonna ask uh Daniel Jeremiah.
He's gonna join us up coming next.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Doug Golibin for Counts the Herd, Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio App.
We got a great best for last for you, one
of my favorite we've we've ever compiled here in The
Herd Okay, so there's an article out in The Athletic
which kind of takes both sides into what happened the
(13:49):
breakdown between the Packers the last couple off seasons and
Aaron Rodgers uh, DeAndre Hopkins on the market, lots of
teams talking about kicking the tires, but what's his actually
will value? And then there's the Jimmy Garoppolo situation where
he's got a contract that's not really insured, he had
(14:10):
another surgery, another injury, and could Tom Brady be looming
if Jimmy G at some point in time gets hurt,
because well he's He's Jimmy G. No one would know
more than our next guest. His name is Daniel Jeremiah's
the NFL Analysts. He co hosts Moved the Sticks, which
is a really good podcast, and you also see him
(14:30):
on the NFL Draft of the NFL Network, and you
can hear him call Chargers games on the on our
sister station here in Los Angeles. DJ. Let's uh, let's
let's let's start in Vegas. Jimmy Garoppolo has had just
a litany of injuries. But what's your reaction to this
story that's come out recently? About the additional surgery that
(14:52):
he had.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Well, two things, Doug. Number One, it explains where there
was a little bit of a delay one they were
getting the deal done, So that that makes some sense.
I would be you know, I would be worried about
Jimmy Garoppolo is staying healthy without even having that information,
just based off of his track record. So you know,
to me, it sounds like they're kind of covering their
(15:16):
They're covering themselves in case this is not something that
they feel good about as we get closer towards the season.
I would not have a high degree of confidence if
I were a Raider fan that you're going to see
you know, Jimmy Garoppolo for a full schedule, even before
this information came out. So that doesn't really change my
thinking from that standpoint. And then on the Brady stuff,
I don't buy anything about Tom Brady coming back. Tom
(15:38):
Brady's only cared about one thing his whole career, which
is about legacy and championships. And he's smart enough to
know that that is not a championship roster. It might
not be a playoff roster.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Why do you think he's buying into part of a
team that I I can't. I know, Mark Davis has
never been cash heavy, but they're obviously making a lot
more money in Vegas. Would that be the team to
invest in?
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Probably because he got the best deal, you know. I
think that that, you know, there was a there was
a want and a desire on Mark Davis's then to
have Tom Brady associated with him. And I'm sure you
know just that that he sees value maybe that some
other teams don't, just in terms of that association. So
(16:23):
that that's what it looks like to me on the outside.
I don't know how many people want to part with,
you know, with ownership shares in the way these teams
are raking in money. Maybe he was a little more
willing to give him a little more, a little more
juice there than the other teams.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
M okay help me out with with this one. Dana
Jeremia is our guest. DeAndre Hopkins. What's what's his value?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I think it's Look, I don't think it's a it's
a situation where there should be a ton of bidders
in this. I think it's very select teams and I
really think it comes down to that makes sense, and
it's in a short term basis, but it's the two
teams that are going to be slugging it out in
the AFC with Buffalo and Kansas City. Those are the
two that I can make sense of it. I think
(17:11):
it makes sense for him to go pair up with
one of those two guys and see if he can
have a really good year and get somebody else to
give him maybe a little bit more of a long
term commitment. I don't think he's nearly the player that
he was, but I think those offenses, the way they're
designed and with those quarterbacks, they'll be able to get
get it out of him for a year. So those
(17:31):
are the two teams that make the most sense, and
it has to make the most sense on a short
term basis where everybody gets what they want out of
this deal.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, can he still run.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
No, But he's one of the best contested catch receivers
that we've had in the last twenty years. So that
was never you know, he was never a blazing fast guy.
That was never the key part of his game. He's
won on back shoulder throws, can test to catches down
the field. That's who he is and that should age
a little bit better than somebody that was speed, you know, reliant?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Is he is he as precise as a Keenan Allen.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
No, No, I don't think he's that. He's not that
type of a route runner. Keenan. You know, neither one
of those guys are fast, right Keenan. Keenan can still
separate because of what he does as a route runner.
He is a technician as a route runner. De Hof
has been more about just kind of he was. He
was a good route runner. He's you know, he's not
like he's terrible, but he's not on a Keenan Allen
(18:30):
level in terms of a route runner. His his money
has been made plucking the ball off ahead the DBS.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
No, no doubt. I just I do wonder with you know,
when you you lose a step that you didn't really have,
what does that actually look like?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Do you become like the contest even the contested catches
become a little bit more difficult?
Speaker 4 (18:48):
But I would say this, Doug, the answer to that
is there's you know, we talk about receivers creating separation,
Elite elite quarterbacks can create separation too. That's why it
wouldn't make any sense for him to go to somebody's
other teams. He goes to one of those two teams
where those guys put the ball in a mailbox. You
don't necessarily need to have quite the separation some of
(19:08):
these other quarterbacks needs.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Lamar Jackson got some work in Tom Monkins to offense,
and they asked him to kind of sum it up,
and he's like, more more throwing, less running. Does that
make sense though, for Lamar Jackson, who's such an incredible runner.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Well, I think that's the plan. You know, the Mike
Mike Tyson line. Right, everybody has a plan till you
hit in the face. I mean that that can't be
the plan. And if they go out and they lose
three of their first four games, I think you'll see
them revert back to using his legs more. I think
the fact that you've paid him now, I think that.
I think, honestly, it makes it an easier conversation to have,
(19:45):
you know, in the past, working year to year. If
you're Lamar Jackson, you're like, guys, I mean, come on,
you guys are gonna run me into the ground. You're
gonna kill my value and my health is a concern.
I think the fact that they have that commitment in place,
the long term commitment, and he's been take care of.
I would think it should be a simple conversation of hey,
this is what we want to do. We want to
(20:05):
throw the ball more than we have. We don't want
you to run it as much. Maybe you know, when
you see opportunities that present themselves off pass plays, you
can take off and go because it seems to be
that's a safer route for a quarterback to take off
and run on a patch play versus design quarterback runs.
But if this thing goes south four or five games
end of the season, you know, I think that, hey,
we got to look at this thing together and say,
(20:27):
this is not what's best for us. We have to change.
We have to go back to doing it a little
bit the way you did it before. And some of
that that risk that you were worried about should be
alleviated by the fact we cut you a big check.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Hey, help me out. Did you see the article I'm
sure you have in the Athletic but Air between Aaron Rodgers, Yeah,
and the Packers and the back and forth.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Well, when you read it, I was gonna I was
gonna call you about it, Doug, But then I remembered
you only do FaceTime and so well.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I you know my house, my house, only only one
bar at my house, you know, the only one bar.
So so facetiming, I just the more Aaron Rodgers doubles
down it like I wanted more communication, but then when
they try to communicate with me, I got back to
him the next day. Maybe I didn't ghost him, That's
(21:13):
what that's he actually said. Right, well, you know, uh,
you know two years previous, I want open lines of
communication like I have now with the Jets. They try
to communicate with You're like, eh, what's your takeaway?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
This relationship was over the second that that pick was made,
and all the rest of it is. You know, it's
just a game that both sides can play. I guess
Aaron's probably played it more aggressively than the Packers have
in some ways. I came away reading that thinking, you know,
the Packers might have might might have their cake and
(21:49):
eat it too here because they got a after that selection.
I mean, everybody is documented. I went back to back MVP.
You through that situation created a highly motive Aaron Rodgers.
You've got the absolute most out of him. The play
slipped a little bit last year so it's a perfect
time to, you know, to transition to Jordan Love, who
(22:10):
in in an era where we have to throw these
quarterbacks in the microwave. They got a chance to put
him in the oven and really properly developed Jordan Love.
So it worked out and then they got they got
a nice haul in the trade. So I don't know,
I think the and.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
They got Jordan Love. It's like it's like eight million
a year for the next two years with literally nothing.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Yeah, they you know, and we always say you want
to pay you want to pay guys for their prime.
You don't want to pay them beyond their prime. And
they they they paid Eric handsomely, but they got his prime.
And as these numbers get ginormous, you know that the
Jets take on and assume that risk. Now, I do
still in saying that, think that the way Aaron's wired,
and you can see it in that article, you know,
(22:56):
kind of to stick it to you nature that he
has that that makes him tick. I think you'll see
him have a better year for the Jets this year
than he would have had if he gone back to
the Packers. Now, when you get beyond this year, then
I have my doubts, but I think you'll see him
play well this year, that Jets will be happy. I
think the Packers are going to be happy with the
timing of how this whole thing worked out. But that
(23:17):
you know, there's all these articles, there's going to be
more that are going to be written, There's been press conferences.
We're going to parse every single word. This relationship ceased
to exist once they took Jordan Love he was done.
He was Aaron Rodgers was done with them, and it
was just a matter of time before it ended.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I agree with you, but should it? Should it have?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I said the Packers. The one thing that I thought
that the Packers made a mistake is I thought that
if they, you know, they wanted to maintain their relationship
in good standing with Aaron Rodgers, that during the draft process,
and this could have been two weeks before the draft,
a month before the draft, but a call in a
(23:59):
conversation with him of hey, I don't think it's likely
that this will happen, but we do have, you know,
two or three quarterbacks that we really like that are
expected to go much higher in the draft. If somehow
they got around the range where we are, we would
seriously consider taking them, just because it's our job to
look after the long term entrance of the organization. Obviously,
(24:20):
you're playing great, but if that opportunity presented itself, we
didn't want it to be a surprise to you. And
you know, I think that conversation had taken place, I
think it would have gone a long way in making
that a little bit smoother. But even having said that,
you're still taking a guy at a position that's that's
going to piss him off, So you know, it's you know,
I think that was the only chance they had at
salvaging that relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Daniel Jeremiah joining us from the NFL Network, and of
course also the Move the Sticks podcast which is on
the network, you can download it, and and of course
he's the analyst for the LA Chargers radio games. I
don't know if you heard what Christian McCaffrey had to
say about running backs and their value. His point is like, look,
(25:02):
we touched the ball, he said, we touched about more
than anybody else that would be as opposed to the quarterback,
you know, and hits you in three phases, basically decrying
the crying about the fact that the salary's numbers, the
year salary is going down, and guys are replaceable, they're
not getting these long term extensions. Is there any truth
(25:23):
to that? McCaffrey feels like their value is being diminished,
even if their value in a game plan is not diminished.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
To me, it's not the issue of the value. It's
it's the issue of the shelf life. Nobody's going to
argue that Le'Veon Bell and Todd Gurley weren't valuable to
their teams in their first couple of years in the league.
They were incredibly valuable. And they weren't just running back.
They were catching the ball to the backfield, doing all
kinds of things. Then they both got paid on a
second contract and they both physically fell apart. That's been
(25:56):
the issue. It has not been whether or not these
guys are valuable and help you in football games. Have
just been whether or not that second contract coming around
if there's value there. And I know he pointed to
you know Emmett and uh, you know Barry Sanders and
some guys that played well beyond their first contracts and
more valuable players. I just think that it's you know,
the long track record, especially of late, has been You're
(26:18):
way more likely to see guys peter out and struggle
on that second deal than you are going to see
guys make teams look smart by paying them. So he's
one of the exceptions. You know, people look at his
tower and say, oh, how do you pay a running
back that much? Well, he's been able, he's been able
to get out there and be available, and all the
things he do he does is you know, is elite, elite, elite,
So there's value. I've never questioned the value of running back.
(26:41):
To me, it's been about the shelf life.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
All right, I appreciate you join USDJ, I know you
got to run. Thanks so much for being our guest
in the Herd.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
You're the best buddy, see man.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
All right, Dan and Jeremiah joining us here in the Hurt.
Let's get to Jason Stewart with the news No No.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Is the Herd Line News.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Doug.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
We've just heard Daniel Jeremiah give his reasoning for why
he doesn't think Tom Brady will play for the Raiders. Basically,
the Raiders are not a championship team right now, and
Daniel doesn't think that Tom would be interested in doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Now.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Troy Aikman was run down by TMZ and he had
this to say about Tom Brady returning.
Speaker 7 (27:24):
I wouldn't rule anything out. He obviously, you know, has
a relationship with the head coach, he knows the offense,
He'll keep himself in great shape. I'm a big Jimmy
Garoppolo fan, so I'm really pulling for him. But I
you know, I would bet that just nothing's off the
table as far as you know what may occur during
the season or what Tom's role may be. I think
(27:47):
he's done playing, but you just never know. Those things
kind of just happen out of nowhere. You don't really predict.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
Him now, Doug. I don't know about the Raiders specific situation,
but when I think about Tom Brady return for essentially
a third time, coming out of retirement for a third time,
I think at that point he becomes like a xerox
or a Q Tips, doesn't he It's like when any
athlete would ever retire after he does this or come
(28:13):
back from retirement, they'd be like, oh, he's pulling a
Tom Brady like. I just don't see him coming back
for a third time. Doug.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I don't either. I don't either. He's somewhere in the
Mediterranean on a boat. Do you see that? Or I
mean on a boat on a yacht. It's an interesting picture.
I don't think so either, But I you know, I
do think he loves football and he probably likes people
(28:43):
talking about him still coming back and playing. But I
agree with DJ like he's only doing it if he
thinks he's got a chance to win. That's why the
Miami thing made a whole lot a lot more sense.
You know, Miami is quality quarterback play away from competing
versus Bowl. They have so many when when healthy, they
have a really, really talented roster.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
In college football, Doug, something's coming up. The SEC Conference
is going to vote this week on whether or not
to change its schedule format from the eight game conference
for each team format that they have now that's existed
since nineteen ninety one with the with Texas and Oklahoma
(29:26):
joining next year. They're going to vote on one of
these two options, either an eight game model keep it
at eight games in conference, one permanent rival, seven rotating opponents,
or a nine game model with three permanent rivals and
six rotating opponents. Now, I guess this nine game format
(29:46):
is a sensitive topic around Kirby Smart of Georgia. He
calls it, quote unquote the most overrated conversation there ever was.
He basically said that if you're asking me about a
nine game format, I know you have nothing to write about.
Why is Smart so sensitive to this? Doug Uh?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Well, actually he has a pretty good reason, Okay, And first,
I guess part of it is the SEC is like,
why would we change We've been kicking everybody's ass anyway
for all these years. But like, let's take a look
at their schedule this upcoming season. Right, they play UT
Martin ball State, then they open SEC play with South Carolina,
(30:34):
and then their last game of the year is you know,
every year they played Georgia Tech I had two big
straight grit Land Grant institutions, so they have one written
in there, and they feel like, I'm sure they need
those guarantee games to develop their younger players, to rest
some of their star players and get ready for the
gauntlet that is the SEC.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
My challenge would be, I understand that a ninth SEC
game eats up on you. Right, That's what the Big
twelve has, That's what you know, the Pac twelve has,
That's what all these other conferences have, but they're like,
we're the better conference. We've got bigger bodies. They're going
to sustain more injuries. But the reason the two things.
(31:15):
One the playoff is expanding, So if you lose another
game because of SEC play, not as big a deal.
The counter to that is, with the playoff expanding, more
SEC teams get in more SEC games you play, the
likelihood is more injuries and more attrition that you've sustained. Okay,
so I would defend the SEC like, look, we're just
gonna stick with eight. See what the new landscape's like.
(31:36):
We've been dominating anyway, We're gonna dominate. We're gonna play people,
you know, they'll everybody plays at least one solid out
of conference game anyway. Does it really matter?
Speaker 6 (31:49):
You know?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
But what's the point of expanding the playoff? What's the
point of expanding the league if you're not going to
have better teams in your building. I think they should
go to nine for the spirit of the sport. They
should go to nine. To make more money. They should
go to nine so that it parallels all the other conferences.
And if you're better, you're still better. On the other hand,
(32:13):
I do understand it hasn't mattered for the last twenty years.
We've been far and away the most dominant conference. Why
should we change now?
Speaker 6 (32:21):
Mentality, Doug, this is a juicy item. I mean, you've
worked with me long enough to know that I really
love smack talk. I really like juicy drama, especially between
former teammates. You remember Doug mccavich. It was a light
hitting first baseman for the Twins and he went I
(32:43):
think he joined a rod with the Yankees when they
won their title. I'm not sure about that. I know
they played together at some point. I think it was
on the Yankees. Doug ncavich went on a podcast and
said this about Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 8 (32:56):
It's painful.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
You know.
Speaker 8 (32:57):
It's like, wait a minute, like, can you not forget
you got suspend two hundred games and it's like, come on, man,
like stop it.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
I get it.
Speaker 8 (33:03):
I played a power position and didn't have any Did
it cross my mind? Yeah, of course you thought about it,
but I was like, you know what, I want to
be able to walk when I'm fifty. I always said
that he's gonna die lonely man, because you know what
this whole like, you know, father the year stuff, God
bless him for his daughters, because it's gonna come a
long way. But it's like you're just trying to get
(33:24):
into heaven out. Like that's the part. Like I'm still
friends with my high school team. We still text often,
not as often as we should, but we still text
group thread constantly bad badgering each other, and it's just,
you know, he's just distance from it. And that's I
don't care how good or how great you become and
how far your career goes you. Oh, you never forget
your high school dudes.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Now.
Speaker 6 (33:46):
A Rod sat down with them McKenzie Salmon on Sports
seriously and was just asked about this. And this is
a Rod's response.
Speaker 9 (33:55):
That was actually strange because I've always considered Doug a
friend and I was shocked and surprise, my daughter send
me the articles, my mom, my brother, all people that
really like Doug, and I was very close with his
mom and dad. But look, at the end of the day,
one thing I'll never do is, you know, speak poorly
about any of my teammates, especially a high school teammate.
(34:18):
So I wish him, well, what do.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
You make of a Rod taking the high road here? Doug?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I mean he Rid's a complete phony. Everybody knows that, right.
Does anybody not think a Rod's a complete and total phony?
He is just the most plastic dude ever. So I
think the reality is Doug man Kavitch says, I'm sure correct.
You know, I'm sure he's correct, and he's just kind
(34:44):
of matter of fact saying, like this guy he just
operates in his own world. And his response actually fits
it to where he's like, I'm not going to punch down.
There's no win there. What's the winning punching down? To
Doug man Kaevitch, I've like the guy was suspended twice,
four steroids twice, twice crazy and somehow has come out
(35:12):
as like the voice of Baseball on two different networks.
It's insane. So the only smart thing to do is
to not punch down. But that doesn't stop what Doug
man Caved is saying for being probably the most accurate
thing uttered about. That's Jason stewartt News.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
herd line.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Surprised. I always thought we were really good friends. I
was close with his mom and dad.
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Yeah, that's a low one. I was close with this family.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I was close with his mom and dad. No, No,
you aren't.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
No.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
What the follow up should have been, what's his mom
and dad's name? What's his Moment's out there? They still live?
Where do they live? You have their seven? Was the
last time you talked to them?
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Like?
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Because if you're close to somebody, like close to somebody's
close to somebody? What teams do we love to see lose?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
That's next in the Heart Be sure to catch live
editions of The Herd weekdays and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 10 (36:15):
Hey Gagni. Jay Lazer host of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast,
and each week we try to help turn our mental
health issues into mental wealth, and we dive in with
everyone from the world of sports and entertainment like Sean McVay,
Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelps, David Spade, got Fiemi, and also
those who could help us in between the ears, anyone
(36:35):
from a therapist to someone like Ed Milett for John Gordon.
So each week listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a
mental health podcast, on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get podcasts.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Doug Gottliven for Collins The Hurt Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio app.
You know, I was. I was trying to I was
trying to figure if there is any enjoyable parts to
a Game seven the other night, the Game seven the
other night, right, And I would say the only enjoyable
(37:09):
part was watching the Celtics lose, because, like the Celtics,
there is just so much discussion about tradition and the
seventeen titles. It's like, look, I agree that historically the
Boston Celtics great organization, unbelievable organization historically, but they've won
(37:38):
exactly one NBA championship since nineteen eighty six one now.
They've been to the NBA Finals two other times, have
been to the three other times. Excuse me, they've been
to the conference finals multiple times. They've been very, very competitive,
in fact, over the last decade, way more competitive than
(38:00):
say the Lakers. The difference is, obviously, the Lakers have
won far more titles since the eighties. So it was
enjoyable to see the Celtics and maybe the Celtics fans lose.
I don't think they're as arrogant. Yeah, you have some
(38:21):
dudes that yell stuff out of the stands, which is
which is disgraceful. You have some element to it you
don't love, but it's a really good organization that wins
a lot of games. But it did bring to my mind.
He sparked my mind on where the five franchises or
teams that we enjoy seeing lose the most. It's part
(38:43):
of our Best for Last.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
It's almost the end of the show. But that doesn't
mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind the very
last segment. It's time for Best for Last.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Oh yeah, so I understand, like this year was fun
to see the Grizzlies lose, but it has to be
like a yearly thing, like every year when they lose,
it's a celebration. Let's get to number five.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Number five.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I think it's I could be wrong. I think it's
it's the Lakers. I really think it's the Lakers. And
I understand. I just said, well, the Celtics are enjoyable,
but not as enjoyable. The difference is one of the
Lakers have been more successful too. There is a certain
(39:32):
kind of confidence arrogance. But I here's the most important thing.
Lakers have had very few Kobe Bryant's one of the
only ones. Kobe and Magic homegrown players homegoing players. Shaq
was in Orlando, granted they low balled him, but Shack's
from Kareem was in Milwaukee Lebron. You know, pick one
(39:52):
of the two teams. So between their desire or maybe
ability to go in just get guys off other teams
or the Really it's the arrogance of the fan base.
Lakers at five. Number four hmm, let's see here. I
(40:13):
think Duke Zion Williamson was the one guy who changed
that and maybe it's different now with John Shire's head coach,
but in our lifetime, especially since they won back to
back titles and Mike Krzyzewski became the face of college
BASKETBA I at have of Duke. Duke losing was a
national celebration. Number three No Tre Dame football right again,
(40:36):
like the Celtics, most of their success is historical, says,
not recent, and recently they've been quite good, but every
time they get the NATS championship game they lose and
lose or semi finals losing, it's not close. Notre Dame
losing sets off a celebration probably unlike any other in
college football. Number two Yankees twenty seven titles, and also
(40:58):
they go get other people's play and they act like
and are better than other franchises seeing them lose as fun.
Number one Cowboys fits all the billing of the other
franchises that have had historical suggess, not recent success, incredibly popular.
(41:21):
Every year it's going to be their year. Some it's
pushed back on Jerry Jones. Some'st pushback on how much attention,
how they're always on TV, how they're America's team and
yet they don't actually win anything. Dallas Cowboys the most
fun team to lose, team to see lose. That's it
for our best last any additions or addendums you would
make Jason Stewart to that list.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
I think that's about right. But I think Alabama maybe
in the last ten years has kind of crept close
to that list.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. I mean obviously big celebrations
of the SEC when they lose. Now, Georgia has you know,
won the last two, so so we'll see if any
of that changes. Now they can like do the Mike
malonea make them into underdogs, all right, dud jmak is
in tomorrow, I believe correct. Jason McIntyres he's back from vacation.
I'll be in the Doug Gottlieb Show. Download my show
(42:13):
or my podcast.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
This is the hurt.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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