June 2, 2023 • 32 mins
More thoughts on the NBA Finals including if the Heat have a chance
Guests: Chris Broussard, Ryan Hollins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome back to The Herd.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd Colin back on Monday.
I'm excited about this next guest. I've known him for years.
He has been at Fox. He was out here in
LA and you know, he needed a sparring partner, somebody
who could actually hang with him in debate NBA. A
lot of guys could not, and I stepped up and
(00:43):
I was like, all right, you know, Brussard, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
And we had a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Then he moved back east and now he's doing first
things first joining the Colhurt Global Network.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Is my guy, Chris Broussard.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
He is retired from basketball, but the takes are still
fire from Broussard.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Chris, how you doing, my man?
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I'm great. J Mack. You definitely were my sparring partner.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
I don't know about the that you hung with me,
but you were definitely my spar.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Because I was the Mayweather. You were the other guy
holding up the gloves. Oh okay, all.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Right, so let's get started with the big news in
the NBA today. Frank Vogel former last scene with Lebron
and Ad is going to be the new head coach
of the Phoenix Suns. You know, we were talking during
the break and it's like, is this that good of
a job? Like, I know, you got two superstars, but
it was the last job filled. Kevin Durant's gone on
publicly on record, we don't need a coach. We just
(01:35):
rolled the ball out. He said that in Brooklyn with
Kyrie Irving, you got the DeAndre Ayton questioned looming the
Chris Paul situation.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I don't know is this a great job.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
I think it's a good job because you know, you've
got two of the best players in the world, you know,
in Kevin Durant and Devin Booker.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Now what is around him? That's gonna be the question.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
If I were in Phoenix, I am trying to out
Chris Paul and see what I can get for him.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
If I can ask some depth for him. You may
not be able to.
Speaker 6 (02:06):
You may have to bring him back and then DeAndre
Ayton again, he's a guy that can get you some
added depth on the market if indeed they move on
from him. If not, you know, maybe he responds well
to a new voice and Frank Vogel, because he's still
a good player. He's not a great center, but he's
a guy that can get you eighteen points and ten
rebounds with very little offense.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Run for him. Maybe you run a little more offense
through him or for him.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Maybe Vogel will do that. But Vocal is a good coach.
I've always said this. Remember when he was in Indiana,
and I know that was three jobs ago, right Los Angeles, Orlando, Indiana.
But when he was in Indiana with a big three
of Paul George, Roy Hibbert and Lance Stevenson, he was
given the heatles problems in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
So he knows his ex'es and o's. He's just got to.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Make sure that these players are in line with what
he's saying, and if he commands their respect, then you
know they can be a contender out there in the
West next year.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
It's Vocal to kind of coach in your opinion, Chris,
where this makes it more or less likely that the
Sons make a move like bringing in Kyrie Irving in
some kind of swap for DeAndre Ayton.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I wow, Kyrie.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
I don't know if that has anything to do with
the coach, because we've seen Kyrie have problems with all
manner of coaches. I mean, you mentioned, you mentioned Kevin
Durant saying he didn't need a coach that really was Kyrie.
Kyrie was the ringleader of that, so I don't know
if that's the deciding factor. Obviously, you want a guy
who you think can command here's respect, if indeed there
(03:42):
is such a person. But it'll be interesting to see
what they do with Kyrie when you're talking about him
in Phoenix. You know what the first question is, does
Durant want to do it again? And I'm sure Durant
doesn't want to answer that question publicly, But if you're
the Sons and you're really thinking about Kyrie, you do
have to talk with Durant privately and say, hey, are
(04:04):
you willing to run this thing back? And you know
it didn't work out in Brooklyn, and a lot of
it was Kyrie's fault, and so you gotta get Durant's
blessing first.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
All right, let's do one more coaching thing before we
get to the finals. Nick Nurse, in a bit of
a surprise, goes to Philadelphia. I had to take earlier that, like,
finally the Sixers are doing the right thing. They're going
away from a player's coach and going more towards someone
who's gonna hold him accountable. And Nick Nurse definitely does that.
He isn't known as a demanding coach. Wants the whole
(04:36):
guy's accountable, and I don't know how that's gonna.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Work with James Harden.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
It got a little tense in the press conference. I
don't know that Nick Nurse exactly wants Hardened there.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
We know Maury has a relationship with him. But I'm
curious your thoughts on the Philly situation.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
Well, one, I thought Nurse had a great quote which
was winning is the cell? Right he is that it
winning is the cell? Like do you want to win?
I mean you're talking about James Harden. If you really
want to win, then you're gonna stay here. And I
think Nick Nurse and others, I'm sure in the Sixers
organization are really questioning does James Harden really want to
(05:14):
win a championship? Cause, honestly, I'm questioning that, Jay Mac,
if you do, why is Houston even on the table?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Why?
Speaker 5 (05:23):
Now? I've heard, you.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
Know, family concerns and things like that. First of all,
he's from Los Angeles. I don't know his family dynamic,
but I know he's from Los Angeles and you're making
enough money where if I was in his shoes, I
can move my family up to Philadelphia. So I don't like,
why is Houston even a consideration if you want to
win a championship?
Speaker 5 (05:44):
So I think the Sixers need to sit down.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
I think they need to take control of the situation,
not let Harden dictate it, and say, look, do you
want to go to Houston. If so, we'll look and
see if there's a sign of trade. I know you
don't like losing players for nothing, and that be tough.
He's a good player, but I'm trying to win the championship,
j Mac, and I don't know. I gotta be honest,
I've seen enough of Harden failing in the big moments
(06:08):
in the playoffs. Is he gonna help them get to
a championship. Well, so I'm if it's not Houston, I'm
looking at what other places might you want to go
because we can maybe do a sign and trade there.
So if I'm Nick Nurse, I'm thinking maybe I want
my man Fred van Vliet from Toronto.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So yeah, hardened to me.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
I'm very disappointed in him even considering Houston. Okay, well,
because that tells me you're not trying to win.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Well, okay, let me try to defend Harden, which was
a little silly. So the last two stops he was in,
he wasn't the guy. He's not the guy anymore. In Philly,
he's not the guy anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
In Brooklyn. He was in Houston, and he.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Got closer to the finals, I thought with Houston than
he did with Philly or Brooklyn. In Houston, he was
a little younger, obviously, and Chris Paul was his sidekick.
But he pushed that loaded Warriors team, which I've called
the greatest team in NBA history KD.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Curry.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
He pushed them to seven. Now, they came up short.
But maybe he still thinks I can be an outfa
in this league, and I can do that in Houston.
I ain't the dude, in Philly, this is in Bead's team.
Could that be an argument for James.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
No, because it's not the same Houston team and Mike
d'antoni's not the coach now. Emael Dokah is a very
good coach, but he's not gonna coach the style that
Mike D'Antoni did. He's defense first, Like, you're not gonna
be James Harden all day, all night, all the time
in Houston anymore. That's over And at Harden's age, I
don't think he could do it consistently. And again, that
(07:34):
team didn't win, bottom line, and you had Chris Paul
and some other really good players.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Houston is young.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
I want to see Jalen Green and some of these
other young players showcase themselves. If I'm Houston and I
have James Harden, guess what I'm asking Harden to play
the same role he played in Philly.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Be a great distributor. He is a great distributor.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
He did it in Brooklyn with Kyrie. He was phenomenal
and then he was He's solid. I thought he would
an All Star level player this year in Philly.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
So he's not.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
I don't know where he's going and thinking he's gonna
get up all those shots and average thirty three points
a game. Again, I don't think Houston is even that place.
So and again he left there?
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Why because I want to win?
Speaker 6 (08:16):
He left Brooklyn because Kyrie wouldn't come back, you know,
during the vaccination, and he wants to win. Well, here
you are in Philly, you got a the MVP, You've
got other great role players. Now you got a championship coach.
I know Doc was a championship coach, but you've got
a new coach. So why not give it a shot there?
If you really want to win a championship. I think
(08:36):
this is surrender. I think if you're going to back
to Houston, you're like, man, I just want a ball.
I just want to get mine ball, put up some numbers,
have fun. Look, that's your choice. It's your choice to
live the life you want to live. But I'm just saying,
is it tells me you're not really interested in chasing
that championship.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
It's like, man, I tried. I gave it three years.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Everybody saying I gotta get a ring, I gave it
three hard years.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
I'm now Kevin Durant, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Doesn't Kevin Durant also just say I just want to ball.
I don't want to be a leader.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I just want to ball. I want to hoop.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
That's like his famous quote, I just want to hoop.
Isn't that what Harden's doing?
Speaker 6 (09:11):
But he's not saying he doesn't want to win. I mean,
what was Kevin Durant's list? Did it include some lottery teams? No,
it was Phoenix cause he knew I can go here win.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I get it. He's not a.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Leader by his own admission, But not being a leader
is this saying I don't want to win?
Speaker 5 (09:29):
And so I think these are completely different things.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one, and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
All right, so let's move to John Morant one more
before the finals. Sorry, that Adam Silver comments were I
don't know, just alarming, disturbing, whatever you want to say.
So basically, he admitted that the NBA uncovered more evidence,
but he doesn't want to drop the news because it'll
interrupt the finals. Well, Adam, you done interrupted the finals?
There's speculation or we look at fifty games full season,
(10:01):
Like what's on the table here.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
He kind of embarrassed the league, Chris Adam. Silver is
gonna come down pretty hard. I know this is gonna
become a racial issue on social media. Everything does.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I don't know. It's looking bleak for John Mornno, well,
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
I mean Gilbert Arenas, what he did was worse. That
was ten years ago. He got fifty games. He brought
a loaded gun onto the end the practice facility.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
All right, that's not I'm not defending what joh did.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
That was bad too, but this was worse what Grenas
did and he got fifty games, all right, So I
don't know that it'll be that harsh. Now, look what
everybody's focusing on Silver, saying they uncovered other things.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
So what those other things are we don't know.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
But remember when joh first got you know, had the
gun on Instagram, there started to be all these reports
about well this was this been going on for a while,
you know, before it got public. People were saying his
behavior in mephis had been going on for a while.
So a lot of it may depend on what else
(11:04):
they uncovered. I'm thinking more like now I may be wrong,
but thirty games something like that, I think when my
main concern with this, and I hope this is the
league's main concern. I know they have to, you know,
watch their image and things like that, but my concern
is with John Moran's health and safety. All right, physically
(11:28):
because this fake gangster act that he's putting on could
put you in harms way down there in Memphis or
other places, but beyond that, his mental health as well,
because he said when he first had the first incident
with the gun, he said, you know, I gotta find
a better way to deal with my stress and you know,
(11:49):
with my the pressure that's on me. And then when
he came back from the eight days of counseling or
whatever it was, and he said, you know, I found
a better way.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
You know, I'm in a better mental space and I've
been in years.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
And then how many people would go on Instagram and
do what he did the second time after you've been
warned by the league. I'm sure Nike talked to him
all that you had to lose. And then the last thing,
Jay Mack the instagram posts about his mom, his dad,
his baby girl, and then by and that fort spur
(12:26):
sparked a welfare wellness check by the police down there
in Memphis. That was scary, And I hope I'm wrong,
but I gotta be honest. I don't buy that he
was just saying he's getting off social media. You know,
he sees his parents all the time, he talks to
him all the time.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
He could easily tell them that.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
And so I think Joe really needs to get counseling,
get his head straight. And so I think a suspension
will actually be good for it because it gives him
time to get himself straight, get himself in order, and
hopefully would serve as a deterrent to future incidents like this.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
So that's my main concern. I don't think he's a
bad guy.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
I think he's very He's lost right now, and he
has the money to do whatever he wants. And when
a lost person, lost person with a lot of money,
that can be trouble.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
So he's got to get himself straight, all.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Right, Chris, Let's get to the NBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Kind of a beatdown last night Denver trail for I
believe thirty four seconds. They led by double digits for
almost the entire second half. Jokic utterly dominant. Jamal Murray,
my guy, Jamal Murray. A lot of doubters on Jamal Murray.
I mean, he's emerged as one of the real clutch
players in the league. Right now, build me a case
for how Miami gets back in the series, because I
(13:42):
saw the spreads up to nine and a half for
Game two, Nuggets overwhelming favorites to win this series.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It's tough to make a case.
Speaker 6 (13:49):
Man. Yeah, Look, Denver is a better team, and I
would argue Milwaukee and Boston were the better teams, and
certainly Miami beat them, but Milwaukee and Boston were better teams,
more talented teams with flaws.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Right Milwaukee, let's call it what it is.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Their best player can't shoot all right, and as great
as Johannis is, he still arguably I think Jokic is
the best player in the world, but.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Janni's is right there, probably second.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
But that's a major fault in Miami's great defensively with
Eric Spostra, and they were able to come up with
schemes that bothered him, and so they that's a major
fall Plus they Milwaukee didn't have a lot of athleticism
on the wings outside of Drew Holliday, and then Boston
was just a team that wasn't well coached this year,
a team that you know, they lacked focus and they
(14:39):
often lost focus, and they don't have a playmaker to
really get Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum in the greatest situations.
This Denver team is a more talented team that doesn't
have those flaws. So Miami beat more talented teams in
the East with their heart, their grit, their toughness, a
(14:59):
great leader and starring Jimmy Butler and a great coach
and Eric Spostra. Well, now you're matched up against another
more talented team who doesn't have those flaws that Boston
and Milwaukee have. And they got just as much heart
and toughness and grit as the Heat do. And they're
at just as well coached, all right, So they're not
(15:20):
gonna win. The Heat is going to lose this series.
I'll they may get a game or two because they
don't quit and because they execute well, and Spostra will
come up.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
With some adjustments. But this is Denver series.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
They're hungry, and they got the best player in the world,
and as you said, saying, one of the great clutch
players in the league right now in Jamal Murray and
a great role playing cast around those two.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
So yeah, I picked them in six. It might not
get pass five.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It's tough, tough to envision that. It's weird. Yokich is
so damn good.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I said earlier he was as dominant as Shaquille O'Neill
was at the height of his career. Shot just bullying people. Well,
Jokic can bully them down low. He could take them
at the elbow and make the right pass. He can
hit threes. He's just the evolution of the big man
no more. You don't think a big guys is like
stepping out to.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
The perimeter and hitting threes. That's like the new center.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I am just curious. It's weird, like we've done this,
Like Ohiannis is the best player in the world. Joel
Embiid is the MVP.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Chris.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
If you're starting a team right now, Age Batters, are
you taking anybody over Yokich?
Speaker 6 (16:29):
Uh No, he's only twenty eight. He's gonna play a
long time, hasn't really had injury problems.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I think he's the best player in the world. He's
a point center.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Remember when Scottie Pippen and back Paul Pressey guts that
were kind of those first point forwards. Well, he's a
point center. And as you said, look, defensively, we know
he's not great, but because of his size, he's immense
and his smarts, he's not a liability. Now he's not
you know, or Anthony Davis or Yannis defensively, but he's
(17:03):
not a liability because of his size and his intelligence.
But offensively he does it all. There's nothing he can't do.
He can shoot the three. He will back you down
when the situation calls for and go old school and
post you up or you know, jump hoop on you.
He'll hit the mid rain shot. He's a tremendous passive,
(17:24):
best passing big man ever, and he's a great rebounder
like and he's unselfish. I don't know what more you
want from an offensive player. And so this is his time.
And now it's up to the rest of the league
to figure out, Okay, how can we combat the Denver Nuggets,
because right now I think they're the team to be.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yeah, it feels like Chris word an inflection point. I
think that's the word in the league where the most
dominant players, the best most complete players are Yokichiannis and Doncic.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
What do they have in common?
Speaker 4 (17:56):
They didn't play basketball here growing up, and you know,
talking about who's who's.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
The next Who's the next guy? The number one picks
about the next guy.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
And then in twenty twenty four, if you want to
look ahead to that draft, because I do drafts for
Fox Sports, uh, three of the top five guys are European.
Something's going on in this league right now, Chris, where
you gotta have all the tools in your box and
it seems like even though Jannis can't shoot free throws,
the Europeans have it and the young guys don't.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I mean, you mentioned Jalen Green in passing about Houston earlier.
I like him. He can give you twenty a night.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
But yeah, so what you know, he's not changing anything
about the game. Jordan Poole, who I love, He ain't
changed anything about the game. It just feels like we're
in this weird moment where.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Aau bast the international players are better, the Internet, the
ultra e lite. We still got great American players, Yes,
John Moran, we talked about early, Jason Tatum, donov Image,
I mean Stephen Lebron.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Well, those are older guys. But even younger guys.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
We got some great American was Zion if he could
stay healthy. But the elite of the elite among the
younger players are all international essentially.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
And here's what's happening.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Look in America, our sports is tied to education, right,
So you play your high school league, you play your
college basketball, and over there it's not. And so at
fourteen fifteen, if you're good, you essentially you become pro
and you're getting beat up by grown men, you're getting
coached hard.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
You're not the superstar at fifteen.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
Okay, you're humble, and you see that with the international
stars as well, and you're learning the right way and you're.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Focusing on basketball.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
I'm sure they probably get tutoring or something like that,
but you're focusing on basketball.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
That's not the case here.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
And I think the AAU look, let's face it, if
you're an AAU coach, it's hard to jump on your
player for not playing defense, your star player, or for
taking bad shots, or for not sharing the basketball, because
you'll just go to another AAU team. Our young stars
at fifteen sixteen, if you're really all that, guess what.
(20:05):
You're a celebrity on social media. You got millions of followers,
so you think you all that, and you're a sophomore.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
In high school. All right, So that's the difference. You see,
these dudes over there are.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
Getting worked and getting taught the right way, and they're
working on their skills. We play AAU games all weekend, right,
You're not working on your skills.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
And furthermore, our players work on They work hard.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
I'm not the American players work hard, but they work
hard on what they.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
Want to the handle the three point shot.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
But you gotta work hard at everything to get everything
in your toolbox. And I'll say this for and these
are international guys, but Mbid and Yannis they got to improve, right.
They had some unceremonious exits from the playoffs this year. Right,
watch Jokic. I've been saying this about NB for years.
These guys they add the post game that Jokic has,
(21:01):
he doesn't use it all the time. The days of Shaq,
Elijah wayIn, whoever, posting up on the block for forty
minutes are over. I'm fine with that, But when the
situation calls for it, Jay Mac.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
What does Jokic do he backs you down. He backs
you down.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
All that in his bag, the three, the mid range,
the passing, and he goes old school and backs you down.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Mbad and Yannis need to learn that.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
They there's no reason they can't work on that this
offseason and come back with that in their toolbox.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Just win the.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Situation calls for it. MB's a great mid range shooter.
Continue to do that, but add the back down to
your game. And same with Yannis. Add that to you.
He'll probably never be a great jump shooter, but if
you add that to your game, a little post play,
that'll serve him very well.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Did you just remind me of the days I used
to wind you up and you would just go off.
That was a good little rant there, Chris. I like
how I like what I did. I was the Yokis there.
You were the Aaron Gordon slamming it home.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Chris Bussard.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
First things first, right after this show, Chris, enjoy the
weekend and continued success, my man.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
All right, brother, see all right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
At the end of your oh coming up next.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Ryan Hollins on the show former NBA center talks about
Jokic at the end of your first year Discover credit
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Speaker 2 (22:30):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
Hey gang, This is Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a
mental health podcast, and each week we try to help
turn our mental health issues into mental wealth, and we
dive in with everyone from a world of sports and
entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsey Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade,
Got Fiemmy, and also those who can help us in
between the years, anyone from a therapist to someone like
(22:58):
Ed Milett for John Gordon. So each week listen to
Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast, on iHeartRadio, app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
The Herd is Excited today making its debut in Peoria,
Illinois on Peoria's Sports Radio one oh one point one
FM thanks to pd Scott Heckertron Excited hecka Thorn.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Sorry my bad can't read names. It's late eight.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
This is three straight hour solo. Let's bring in Ryan
Hollins to wrap up.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
And finish strong.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Former NBA center, former UCLA great, and he hosts the
NBA Rookie Life podcast on iHeart with the NBA.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Ryan, How you doing, my man?
Speaker 8 (23:41):
What's up too long? Man?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Ryan?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
And I did some radio I think pre COVID out
here in LA always fun, good sparring and and you know,
the team here said, hey, Jason had to take that Jokic,
who's dominating the finals, dominating the playoffs. Best player in
the league is as dominant shack And Ryan Hollins said, no, oh,
I got another answer for you. Let's hear the center.
Yokic is as dominating as Ryan Hollins.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Well, no, as a center, I wasn't dominating at all.
I just I just did my job. But is Nicola
Jokic dominant? That's not the word I would use. He's
a playmaker. He's something we've never seen before. He's our
generations are vetus s the bonus. Remember I said that, Jason,
But the sinner who was the most dominant since Shaquill
O'Neill was Dwight Howard. Now understand understand the word dominant
(24:32):
is intriguing in the senculer. You're gonna spend five fouls.
Multiple guys are gonna spend their five or six fouls
on them. You're gonna foul out. You gotta grab, you
gotta hold them. You're gonna blast through through three guys.
You're gonna fear them. No, nobody fears Jokic, but you
respect Yoki. You see what he does. But dominance is
something different. Shaquille O'Neil's the most dominant player that ever played.
(24:54):
And like I said, Dwight Howard was a guy you
feared having to compete against. You knew you had to
bring a level of physical You knew guys were getting
signed on the roster just to guard Dwight Howard. But
Dwight Howard was no shock, Make no mistake. But I
think Dwight Howard was the closest that we had to
Shaquille in terms of dominance.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Nobody fears Jokis. Did you actually just say that, Ryan Holland?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Nobody fears Yokis?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
He had thirty four, twenty one and thirteen against Anthony
Davis in Game one, and the Lakers were shook and
they could never rebound from that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
He punked Anthony Davis.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Who was Coward's number one player in the playoffs through
two rounds. Like nobody fears Yokis. That might be your
hottest nake, Ryan, Keep.
Speaker 8 (25:34):
That context, keep the context of what I'm saying. I
played the position, so you respect him. He's he's gonna
put in work on you. You go take thirty fifteen
to fifteen, no disrespect, but getting an elbow in the
mouth like a physical fear I'm talking about, you know,
Yoki just go use his skill set. You're not getting
elbowed in the back of your hand playing against Yokin.
(25:55):
So only from the physicality standpoints. He plays the game
of skill. He's something we've never seen before. And I
think all NBA scouts are out running around trying to
find the next Nikola Yolkis. Now have you from our rockets.
We got a guy by the name of al pron
Schenko who's pretty darn special, pretty close to what he does. Okay,
but everybody's looking for, hey man, where's that next yelkin
(26:16):
chet Okay, so fear in the terms of hey man,
this guy gonna flick some actual harm to me.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's the first sengoon reference in the history of the show.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I'm impressed. I'll let Colin know about it. I gotta
ask you, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray. I told you could
have either one of those guys around on your team.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Who are you taking.
Speaker 8 (26:35):
Devin Booker? Dog, I'm going with Devin Booker. Do not
get be a prisoner of recency bias. Devin Booker has
been a walking bucket skill set wise. He's the closest
thing as far as scoring over a contested hand that
we have since by the name of Kobe Bryant. Jamal
Murray is a dog. He can get it done off
the bounce, he is boxed off, hec he scores in
(26:57):
big time situations. He's mister fourth quarter. And I've been
seeing it from this kid since he was fifteen or
sixteen years old. Okay, he led us up at the
Pan American Game before he was even a collegiate basketball player.
So I believe in Jamal Murray. But I'm still going
Devin Booker.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Right there.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Could put some respect on Devin Booker's name. Dog, don't
don't be the prisoner of the moment man.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Jamal Murray one of the most clutch playoff performers we've
seen in the last ten years. I mean, he is
unbelievable in the place, never made an All Star game.
I don't know how that happens. Right next to Brian Allins.
How's this one? Eric Sposter calls you up, Brian love
your announcing. Don't know if you call game one. We're
in a bit of a pickle. We need some thoughts,
some new ideas, outside the box stuff.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
What do you got.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
How do we slow down Yokic? How do we slow
down this Nuggets team? How do we win a game?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Well, you slow down Nikola jokicch by speeding him up.
You have to force him to defend. You have to
force him to have to run vam out of Bayo
or smaller matchup off of the three point line. You
have to make him chase a on the perimeter. You
gotta go out and hunt him and you'll like this
the same way that who Steph Curry gets hunted? Okay,
(28:07):
Steph Curry teams When you want to beat the Warriors,
you find Curry and you make him defend and you
try to tire him out. Now, Yokiic his favor. He's
a big boy. He can send in the paint, he
can use his length and he can defend the rem
but you have to make him a defender. That's the
way that you somewhat slow him down. And a lot
of teams, unfortunately that is their strategy. But when Denver struggles,
(28:29):
it's when they don't defend and when you make Jokic
have to run around and you get the big fellow tired.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Interesting. I mean, Bam Outebao had a damn good game.
It didn't matter.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
You know when Bam scores over twenty I think they
were six to zero in the playoffs. He scored like
a career high in the playoffs twenty six and they
got smacked. Is there anything they can do defensively besides
making Yokic run when they're on offense.
Speaker 8 (28:53):
You gotta give him one thing. He can't have his
cake and eat it too. So if he's gonna go
out and get forty point, he can't have the ten assists. Okay,
he can't have a cherry on top, you know what
I'm saying. Or if he's gonna be a passer, that
means he's scoring under ten points and he's in a
twenty assist range, or he's getting hockey assists. You're getting
the ball out of his hands. You got to meet
(29:15):
him early. You gotta do your work on him, so
you can't give up both. He can't have thirty and fifty.
It's got to be one or the other. And I
think that's your best strategy right now, because he's shown
you he's disciplined enough and patient enough to beat you
at both. And then obviously now we see where Jamal
Murray comes into being a problem because if you do
shut down yogas, Jamal Murray has no problem stepping up
(29:36):
and taking over. He's got that clutch gene.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Let's go to the Nick Nurse addition to the Sixers
interesting press conference where they were pressing him about James Harden.
It didn't seem like exactly a love letter from Nick
Nurse to James Harden to stay you're in Houston. Whether
all the talk is James Harden could be coming back
to Houston where he loves the city, he loves the
night life. They let him be James Ryan Allins today,
(30:01):
would your guest be that James Rden returns yes or no?
Speaker 8 (30:06):
I think James is gonna do whatever he sees fit in.
James's at that stage of his career. It's about winning,
it's about happiness. He's gonna have to choose his path
ultimately at the end of the day. I would be
a static if James came to Houston, and I have
none but respect for him. If he stays in Philly,
I don't think we can read too far into a
coach talking about a player in free agency. Listen, man,
(30:29):
it is good problems to have. If you're James Harden,
Do I go back to Houston? Do I stay in Philly?
Do I possibly see another situation where I can win
the championship. Maybe it's in a Phoenix or somewhere like that.
Maybe it's in maybe Milwaukee. Giannis puts a phone call
in and says, you know, Beard, come here, man. Beat
those two guys who race for MVP and have a
chance at a championship. But if you're James Harden, I
(30:50):
think he's gonna be welcome anywhere. And he still has
a top ten skill set, top five skill set depends
on any given night. In the NBA, he showed you
he can put up forty five in the playoffs, and
I think for him, he's gonna have to just value
you know, do I want to be happy. Do I
want to win? Hey, teammate Wise, he's got rich people problems, Jason,
like you, rich people problems, man, the rich people problems.
(31:11):
Where do you want to go make millions of dollars?
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Man?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Last question, Ryan, does James Harden fit on the current
Houston roster?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
It's very young, he's not young. Does he fit there?
Speaker 8 (31:23):
I can't believe you're asking me this. Dog, I can't
believe you're asking me this. Okay, So I want you
to notice James Harden's playing style fits anywhere. If James
Harden wants to go out and get you twenty assists,
James Harden can get twenty assists. If he wants to
drop a fifty piece of fifty burger, he can go
and do that. There's versatility in James Harden's game. And
I think that people think that you just see him,
(31:45):
you know, shooting the step back threes and scoring out
a high clip that way, and that's just the only
James Harden. James Harden can give it to you anyway
you want it. It's like burger king baby, you can
have it your way. So I think if James didn't
want to come back and mentor these young guys. He's
more than capable of doing it. If he wants to
go and play amongst other superstars and kind of take
a backseat roll and just be the distributor, he can
(32:06):
do that. I think that James Harden can go and
make his way anywhere in the NBA that he sees fit. So, man,
put some respect on James Hard. Don't ask me nothing
like that again about Jay's hart Man, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Man?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
All right, Ryan Hollins, thanks for stopping by.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Congrats on the new podcast through iHeart NBA Rookie Life
with Ryan Hollins. All right, coming up next, we will
wrap up the show three hours done.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Solo, baby, I can handle it. I'll put the team
on my back like Curry
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday from twelve to three eastern,
nine to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS one.
Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports
Radio dot com, or stream us live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome back to The Herd.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd Colin back on Monday.
I'm excited about this next guest. I've known him for years.
He has been at Fox. He was out here in
LA and you know, he needed a sparring partner, somebody
who could actually hang with him in debate NBA. A
lot of guys could not, and I stepped up and
(00:43):
I was like, all right, you know, Brussard, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
And we had a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Then he moved back east and now he's doing first
things first joining the Colhurt Global Network.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Is my guy, Chris Broussard.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
He is retired from basketball, but the takes are still
fire from Broussard.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Chris, how you doing, my man?
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I'm great. J Mack. You definitely were my sparring partner.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
I don't know about the that you hung with me,
but you were definitely my spar.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Because I was the Mayweather. You were the other guy
holding up the gloves. Oh okay, all.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Right, so let's get started with the big news in
the NBA today. Frank Vogel former last scene with Lebron
and Ad is going to be the new head coach
of the Phoenix Suns. You know, we were talking during
the break and it's like, is this that good of
a job? Like, I know, you got two superstars, but
it was the last job filled. Kevin Durant's gone on
publicly on record, we don't need a coach. We just
(01:35):
rolled the ball out. He said that in Brooklyn with
Kyrie Irving, you got the DeAndre Ayton questioned looming the
Chris Paul situation.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I don't know is this a great job.
Speaker 6 (01:47):
I think it's a good job because you know, you've
got two of the best players in the world, you know,
in Kevin Durant and Devin Booker.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Now what is around him? That's gonna be the question.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
If I were in Phoenix, I am trying to out
Chris Paul and see what I can get for him.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
If I can ask some depth for him. You may
not be able to.
Speaker 6 (02:06):
You may have to bring him back and then DeAndre
Ayton again, he's a guy that can get you some
added depth on the market if indeed they move on
from him. If not, you know, maybe he responds well
to a new voice and Frank Vogel, because he's still
a good player. He's not a great center, but he's
a guy that can get you eighteen points and ten
rebounds with very little offense.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Run for him. Maybe you run a little more offense
through him or for him.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Maybe Vogel will do that. But Vocal is a good coach.
I've always said this. Remember when he was in Indiana,
and I know that was three jobs ago, right Los Angeles, Orlando, Indiana.
But when he was in Indiana with a big three
of Paul George, Roy Hibbert and Lance Stevenson, he was
given the heatles problems in the playoffs.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
So he knows his ex'es and o's. He's just got to.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
Make sure that these players are in line with what
he's saying, and if he commands their respect, then you
know they can be a contender out there in the
West next year.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
It's Vocal to kind of coach in your opinion, Chris,
where this makes it more or less likely that the
Sons make a move like bringing in Kyrie Irving in
some kind of swap for DeAndre Ayton.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I wow, Kyrie.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
I don't know if that has anything to do with
the coach, because we've seen Kyrie have problems with all
manner of coaches. I mean, you mentioned, you mentioned Kevin
Durant saying he didn't need a coach that really was Kyrie.
Kyrie was the ringleader of that, so I don't know
if that's the deciding factor. Obviously, you want a guy
who you think can command here's respect, if indeed there
(03:42):
is such a person. But it'll be interesting to see
what they do with Kyrie when you're talking about him
in Phoenix. You know what the first question is, does
Durant want to do it again? And I'm sure Durant
doesn't want to answer that question publicly, But if you're
the Sons and you're really thinking about Kyrie, you do
have to talk with Durant privately and say, hey, are
(04:04):
you willing to run this thing back? And you know
it didn't work out in Brooklyn, and a lot of
it was Kyrie's fault, and so you gotta get Durant's
blessing first.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
All right, let's do one more coaching thing before we
get to the finals. Nick Nurse, in a bit of
a surprise, goes to Philadelphia. I had to take earlier that, like,
finally the Sixers are doing the right thing. They're going
away from a player's coach and going more towards someone
who's gonna hold him accountable. And Nick Nurse definitely does that.
He isn't known as a demanding coach. Wants the whole
(04:36):
guy's accountable, and I don't know how that's gonna.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Work with James Harden.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
It got a little tense in the press conference. I
don't know that Nick Nurse exactly wants Hardened there.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
We know Maury has a relationship with him. But I'm
curious your thoughts on the Philly situation.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
Well, one, I thought Nurse had a great quote which
was winning is the cell? Right he is that it
winning is the cell? Like do you want to win?
I mean you're talking about James Harden. If you really
want to win, then you're gonna stay here. And I
think Nick Nurse and others, I'm sure in the Sixers
organization are really questioning does James Harden really want to
(05:14):
win a championship? Cause, honestly, I'm questioning that, Jay Mac,
if you do, why is Houston even on the table?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Why?
Speaker 5 (05:23):
Now? I've heard, you.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
Know, family concerns and things like that. First of all,
he's from Los Angeles. I don't know his family dynamic,
but I know he's from Los Angeles and you're making
enough money where if I was in his shoes, I
can move my family up to Philadelphia. So I don't like,
why is Houston even a consideration if you want to
win a championship?
Speaker 5 (05:44):
So I think the Sixers need to sit down.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
I think they need to take control of the situation,
not let Harden dictate it, and say, look, do you
want to go to Houston. If so, we'll look and
see if there's a sign of trade. I know you
don't like losing players for nothing, and that be tough.
He's a good player, but I'm trying to win the championship,
j Mac, and I don't know. I gotta be honest,
I've seen enough of Harden failing in the big moments
(06:08):
in the playoffs. Is he gonna help them get to
a championship. Well, so I'm if it's not Houston, I'm
looking at what other places might you want to go
because we can maybe do a sign and trade there.
So if I'm Nick Nurse, I'm thinking maybe I want
my man Fred van Vliet from Toronto.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So yeah, hardened to me.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
I'm very disappointed in him even considering Houston. Okay, well,
because that tells me you're not trying to win.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Well, okay, let me try to defend Harden, which was
a little silly. So the last two stops he was in,
he wasn't the guy. He's not the guy anymore. In Philly,
he's not the guy anymore.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
In Brooklyn. He was in Houston, and he.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Got closer to the finals, I thought with Houston than
he did with Philly or Brooklyn. In Houston, he was
a little younger, obviously, and Chris Paul was his sidekick.
But he pushed that loaded Warriors team, which I've called
the greatest team in NBA history KD.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Curry.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
He pushed them to seven. Now, they came up short.
But maybe he still thinks I can be an outfa
in this league, and I can do that in Houston.
I ain't the dude, in Philly, this is in Bead's team.
Could that be an argument for James.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
No, because it's not the same Houston team and Mike
d'antoni's not the coach now. Emael Dokah is a very
good coach, but he's not gonna coach the style that
Mike D'Antoni did. He's defense first, Like, you're not gonna
be James Harden all day, all night, all the time
in Houston anymore. That's over And at Harden's age, I
don't think he could do it consistently. And again, that
(07:34):
team didn't win, bottom line, and you had Chris Paul
and some other really good players.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Houston is young.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
I want to see Jalen Green and some of these
other young players showcase themselves. If I'm Houston and I
have James Harden, guess what I'm asking Harden to play
the same role he played in Philly.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Be a great distributor. He is a great distributor.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
He did it in Brooklyn with Kyrie. He was phenomenal
and then he was He's solid. I thought he would
an All Star level player this year in Philly.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
So he's not.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
I don't know where he's going and thinking he's gonna
get up all those shots and average thirty three points
a game. Again, I don't think Houston is even that place.
So and again he left there?
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Why because I want to win?
Speaker 6 (08:16):
He left Brooklyn because Kyrie wouldn't come back, you know,
during the vaccination, and he wants to win. Well, here
you are in Philly, you got a the MVP, You've
got other great role players. Now you got a championship coach.
I know Doc was a championship coach, but you've got
a new coach. So why not give it a shot there?
If you really want to win a championship. I think
(08:36):
this is surrender. I think if you're going to back
to Houston, you're like, man, I just want a ball.
I just want to get mine ball, put up some numbers,
have fun. Look, that's your choice. It's your choice to
live the life you want to live. But I'm just saying,
is it tells me you're not really interested in chasing
that championship.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
It's like, man, I tried. I gave it three years.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Everybody saying I gotta get a ring, I gave it
three hard years.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
I'm now Kevin Durant, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Doesn't Kevin Durant also just say I just want to ball.
I don't want to be a leader.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I just want to ball. I want to hoop.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
That's like his famous quote, I just want to hoop.
Isn't that what Harden's doing?
Speaker 6 (09:11):
But he's not saying he doesn't want to win. I mean,
what was Kevin Durant's list? Did it include some lottery teams? No,
it was Phoenix cause he knew I can go here win.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I get it. He's not a.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
Leader by his own admission, But not being a leader
is this saying I don't want to win?
Speaker 5 (09:29):
And so I think these are completely different things.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not a Empacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one, and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
All right, so let's move to John Morant one more
before the finals. Sorry, that Adam Silver comments were I
don't know, just alarming, disturbing, whatever you want to say.
So basically, he admitted that the NBA uncovered more evidence,
but he doesn't want to drop the news because it'll
interrupt the finals. Well, Adam, you done interrupted the finals?
There's speculation or we look at fifty games full season,
(10:01):
Like what's on the table here.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
He kind of embarrassed the league, Chris Adam. Silver is
gonna come down pretty hard. I know this is gonna
become a racial issue on social media. Everything does.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I don't know. It's looking bleak for John Mornno, well,
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
I mean Gilbert Arenas, what he did was worse. That
was ten years ago. He got fifty games. He brought
a loaded gun onto the end the practice facility.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
All right, that's not I'm not defending what joh did.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
That was bad too, but this was worse what Grenas
did and he got fifty games, all right, So I
don't know that it'll be that harsh. Now, look what
everybody's focusing on Silver, saying they uncovered other things.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
So what those other things are we don't know.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
But remember when joh first got you know, had the
gun on Instagram, there started to be all these reports
about well this was this been going on for a while,
you know, before it got public. People were saying his
behavior in mephis had been going on for a while.
So a lot of it may depend on what else
(11:04):
they uncovered. I'm thinking more like now I may be wrong,
but thirty games something like that, I think when my
main concern with this, and I hope this is the
league's main concern. I know they have to, you know,
watch their image and things like that, but my concern
is with John Moran's health and safety. All right, physically
(11:28):
because this fake gangster act that he's putting on could
put you in harms way down there in Memphis or
other places, but beyond that, his mental health as well,
because he said when he first had the first incident
with the gun, he said, you know, I gotta find
a better way to deal with my stress and you know,
(11:49):
with my the pressure that's on me. And then when
he came back from the eight days of counseling or
whatever it was, and he said, you know, I found
a better way.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
You know, I'm in a better mental space and I've
been in years.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
And then how many people would go on Instagram and
do what he did the second time after you've been
warned by the league. I'm sure Nike talked to him
all that you had to lose. And then the last thing,
Jay Mack the instagram posts about his mom, his dad,
his baby girl, and then by and that fort spur
(12:26):
sparked a welfare wellness check by the police down there
in Memphis. That was scary, And I hope I'm wrong,
but I gotta be honest. I don't buy that he
was just saying he's getting off social media. You know,
he sees his parents all the time, he talks to
him all the time.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
He could easily tell them that.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
And so I think Joe really needs to get counseling,
get his head straight. And so I think a suspension
will actually be good for it because it gives him
time to get himself straight, get himself in order, and
hopefully would serve as a deterrent to future incidents like this.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
So that's my main concern. I don't think he's a
bad guy.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
I think he's very He's lost right now, and he
has the money to do whatever he wants. And when
a lost person, lost person with a lot of money,
that can be trouble.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
So he's got to get himself straight, all.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Right, Chris, Let's get to the NBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Kind of a beatdown last night Denver trail for I
believe thirty four seconds. They led by double digits for
almost the entire second half. Jokic utterly dominant. Jamal Murray,
my guy, Jamal Murray. A lot of doubters on Jamal Murray.
I mean, he's emerged as one of the real clutch
players in the league. Right now, build me a case
for how Miami gets back in the series, because I
(13:42):
saw the spreads up to nine and a half for
Game two, Nuggets overwhelming favorites to win this series.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It's tough to make a case.
Speaker 6 (13:49):
Man. Yeah, Look, Denver is a better team, and I
would argue Milwaukee and Boston were the better teams, and
certainly Miami beat them, but Milwaukee and Boston were better teams,
more talented teams with flaws.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Right Milwaukee, let's call it what it is.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Their best player can't shoot all right, and as great
as Johannis is, he still arguably I think Jokic is
the best player in the world, but.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Janni's is right there, probably second.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
But that's a major fault in Miami's great defensively with
Eric Spostra, and they were able to come up with
schemes that bothered him, and so they that's a major
fall Plus they Milwaukee didn't have a lot of athleticism
on the wings outside of Drew Holliday, and then Boston
was just a team that wasn't well coached this year,
a team that you know, they lacked focus and they
(14:39):
often lost focus, and they don't have a playmaker to
really get Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum in the greatest situations.
This Denver team is a more talented team that doesn't
have those flaws. So Miami beat more talented teams in
the East with their heart, their grit, their toughness, a
(14:59):
great leader and starring Jimmy Butler and a great coach
and Eric Spostra. Well, now you're matched up against another
more talented team who doesn't have those flaws that Boston
and Milwaukee have. And they got just as much heart
and toughness and grit as the Heat do. And they're
at just as well coached, all right, So they're not
(15:20):
gonna win. The Heat is going to lose this series.
I'll they may get a game or two because they
don't quit and because they execute well, and Spostra will
come up.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
With some adjustments. But this is Denver series.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
They're hungry, and they got the best player in the world,
and as you said, saying, one of the great clutch
players in the league right now in Jamal Murray and
a great role playing cast around those two.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
So yeah, I picked them in six. It might not
get pass five.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It's tough, tough to envision that. It's weird. Yokich is
so damn good.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I said earlier he was as dominant as Shaquille O'Neill
was at the height of his career. Shot just bullying people. Well,
Jokic can bully them down low. He could take them
at the elbow and make the right pass. He can
hit threes. He's just the evolution of the big man
no more. You don't think a big guys is like
stepping out to.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
The perimeter and hitting threes. That's like the new center.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I am just curious. It's weird, like we've done this,
Like Ohiannis is the best player in the world. Joel
Embiid is the MVP.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Chris.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
If you're starting a team right now, Age Batters, are
you taking anybody over Yokich?
Speaker 6 (16:29):
Uh No, he's only twenty eight. He's gonna play a
long time, hasn't really had injury problems.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I think he's the best player in the world. He's
a point center.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Remember when Scottie Pippen and back Paul Pressey guts that
were kind of those first point forwards. Well, he's a
point center. And as you said, look, defensively, we know
he's not great, but because of his size, he's immense
and his smarts, he's not a liability. Now he's not
you know, or Anthony Davis or Yannis defensively, but he's
(17:03):
not a liability because of his size and his intelligence.
But offensively he does it all. There's nothing he can't do.
He can shoot the three. He will back you down
when the situation calls for and go old school and
post you up or you know, jump hoop on you.
He'll hit the mid rain shot. He's a tremendous passive,
(17:24):
best passing big man ever, and he's a great rebounder
like and he's unselfish. I don't know what more you
want from an offensive player. And so this is his time.
And now it's up to the rest of the league
to figure out, Okay, how can we combat the Denver Nuggets,
because right now I think they're the team to be.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yeah, it feels like Chris word an inflection point. I
think that's the word in the league where the most
dominant players, the best most complete players are Yokichiannis and Doncic.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
What do they have in common?
Speaker 4 (17:56):
They didn't play basketball here growing up, and you know,
talking about who's who's.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
The next Who's the next guy? The number one picks
about the next guy.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
And then in twenty twenty four, if you want to
look ahead to that draft, because I do drafts for
Fox Sports, uh, three of the top five guys are European.
Something's going on in this league right now, Chris, where
you gotta have all the tools in your box and
it seems like even though Jannis can't shoot free throws,
the Europeans have it and the young guys don't.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I mean, you mentioned Jalen Green in passing about Houston earlier.
I like him. He can give you twenty a night.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
But yeah, so what you know, he's not changing anything
about the game. Jordan Poole, who I love, He ain't
changed anything about the game. It just feels like we're
in this weird moment where.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
Aau bast the international players are better, the Internet, the
ultra e lite. We still got great American players, Yes,
John Moran, we talked about early, Jason Tatum, donov Image,
I mean Stephen Lebron.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Well, those are older guys. But even younger guys.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
We got some great American was Zion if he could
stay healthy. But the elite of the elite among the
younger players are all international essentially.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
And here's what's happening.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Look in America, our sports is tied to education, right,
So you play your high school league, you play your
college basketball, and over there it's not. And so at
fourteen fifteen, if you're good, you essentially you become pro
and you're getting beat up by grown men, you're getting
coached hard.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
You're not the superstar at fifteen.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
Okay, you're humble, and you see that with the international
stars as well, and you're learning the right way and you're.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Focusing on basketball.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
I'm sure they probably get tutoring or something like that,
but you're focusing on basketball.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
That's not the case here.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
And I think the AAU look, let's face it, if
you're an AAU coach, it's hard to jump on your
player for not playing defense, your star player, or for
taking bad shots, or for not sharing the basketball, because
you'll just go to another AAU team. Our young stars
at fifteen sixteen, if you're really all that, guess what.
(20:05):
You're a celebrity on social media. You got millions of followers,
so you think you all that, and you're a sophomore.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
In high school. All right, So that's the difference. You see,
these dudes over there are.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
Getting worked and getting taught the right way, and they're
working on their skills. We play AAU games all weekend, right,
You're not working on your skills.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
And furthermore, our players work on They work hard.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
I'm not the American players work hard, but they work
hard on what they.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
Want to the handle the three point shot.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
But you gotta work hard at everything to get everything
in your toolbox. And I'll say this for and these
are international guys, but Mbid and Yannis they got to improve, right.
They had some unceremonious exits from the playoffs this year. Right,
watch Jokic. I've been saying this about NB for years.
These guys they add the post game that Jokic has,
(21:01):
he doesn't use it all the time. The days of Shaq,
Elijah wayIn, whoever, posting up on the block for forty
minutes are over. I'm fine with that, But when the
situation calls for it, Jay Mac.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
What does Jokic do he backs you down. He backs
you down.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
All that in his bag, the three, the mid range,
the passing, and he goes old school and backs you down.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Mbad and Yannis need to learn that.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
They there's no reason they can't work on that this
offseason and come back with that in their toolbox.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Just win the.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Situation calls for it. MB's a great mid range shooter.
Continue to do that, but add the back down to
your game. And same with Yannis. Add that to you.
He'll probably never be a great jump shooter, but if
you add that to your game, a little post play,
that'll serve him very well.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Did you just remind me of the days I used
to wind you up and you would just go off.
That was a good little rant there, Chris. I like
how I like what I did. I was the Yokis there.
You were the Aaron Gordon slamming it home.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Chris Bussard.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
First things first, right after this show, Chris, enjoy the
weekend and continued success, my man.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
All right, brother, see all right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
At the end of your oh coming up next.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Ryan Hollins on the show former NBA center talks about
Jokic at the end of your first year Discover credit
cards automatically double all the cash back you've earned. That's right,
everything you've earned doubled. Seriously see terms and check it
out for yourself at discover dot com slash Match.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 7 (22:36):
Hey gang, This is Jay Glazer, host of Unbreakable, a
mental health podcast, and each week we try to help
turn our mental health issues into mental wealth, and we
dive in with everyone from a world of sports and
entertainment like Sean McVay, Lindsey Vaughn, Michael Phelp, David Spade,
Got Fiemmy, and also those who can help us in
between the years, anyone from a therapist to someone like
(22:58):
Ed Milett for John Gordon. So each week listen to
Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast, on iHeartRadio, app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
The Herd is Excited today making its debut in Peoria,
Illinois on Peoria's Sports Radio one oh one point one
FM thanks to pd Scott Heckertron Excited hecka Thorn.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Sorry my bad can't read names. It's late eight.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
This is three straight hour solo. Let's bring in Ryan
Hollins to wrap up.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
And finish strong.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Former NBA center, former UCLA great, and he hosts the
NBA Rookie Life podcast on iHeart with the NBA.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Ryan, How you doing, my man?
Speaker 8 (23:41):
What's up too long? Man?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Ryan?
Speaker 4 (23:44):
And I did some radio I think pre COVID out
here in LA always fun, good sparring and and you know,
the team here said, hey, Jason had to take that Jokic,
who's dominating the finals, dominating the playoffs. Best player in
the league is as dominant shack And Ryan Hollins said, no, oh,
I got another answer for you. Let's hear the center.
Yokic is as dominating as Ryan Hollins.
Speaker 8 (24:07):
Well, no, as a center, I wasn't dominating at all.
I just I just did my job. But is Nicola
Jokic dominant? That's not the word I would use. He's
a playmaker. He's something we've never seen before. He's our
generations are vetus s the bonus. Remember I said that, Jason,
But the sinner who was the most dominant since Shaquill
O'Neill was Dwight Howard. Now understand understand the word dominant
(24:32):
is intriguing in the senculer. You're gonna spend five fouls.
Multiple guys are gonna spend their five or six fouls
on them. You're gonna foul out. You gotta grab, you
gotta hold them. You're gonna blast through through three guys.
You're gonna fear them. No, nobody fears Jokic, but you
respect Yoki. You see what he does. But dominance is
something different. Shaquille O'Neil's the most dominant player that ever played.
(24:54):
And like I said, Dwight Howard was a guy you
feared having to compete against. You knew you had to
bring a level of physical You knew guys were getting
signed on the roster just to guard Dwight Howard. But
Dwight Howard was no shock, Make no mistake. But I
think Dwight Howard was the closest that we had to
Shaquille in terms of dominance.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Nobody fears Jokis. Did you actually just say that, Ryan Holland?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Nobody fears Yokis?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
He had thirty four, twenty one and thirteen against Anthony
Davis in Game one, and the Lakers were shook and
they could never rebound from that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
He punked Anthony Davis.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Who was Coward's number one player in the playoffs through
two rounds. Like nobody fears Yokis. That might be your
hottest nake, Ryan, Keep.
Speaker 8 (25:34):
That context, keep the context of what I'm saying. I
played the position, so you respect him. He's he's gonna
put in work on you. You go take thirty fifteen
to fifteen, no disrespect, but getting an elbow in the
mouth like a physical fear I'm talking about, you know,
Yoki just go use his skill set. You're not getting
elbowed in the back of your hand playing against Yokin.
(25:55):
So only from the physicality standpoints. He plays the game
of skill. He's something we've never seen before. And I
think all NBA scouts are out running around trying to
find the next Nikola Yolkis. Now have you from our rockets.
We got a guy by the name of al pron
Schenko who's pretty darn special, pretty close to what he does. Okay,
but everybody's looking for, hey man, where's that next yelkin
(26:16):
chet Okay, so fear in the terms of hey man,
this guy gonna flick some actual harm to me.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's the first sengoon reference in the history of the show.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I'm impressed. I'll let Colin know about it. I gotta
ask you, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray. I told you could
have either one of those guys around on your team.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Who are you taking.
Speaker 8 (26:35):
Devin Booker? Dog, I'm going with Devin Booker. Do not
get be a prisoner of recency bias. Devin Booker has
been a walking bucket skill set wise. He's the closest
thing as far as scoring over a contested hand that
we have since by the name of Kobe Bryant. Jamal
Murray is a dog. He can get it done off
the bounce, he is boxed off, hec he scores in
(26:57):
big time situations. He's mister fourth quarter. And I've been
seeing it from this kid since he was fifteen or
sixteen years old. Okay, he led us up at the
Pan American Game before he was even a collegiate basketball player.
So I believe in Jamal Murray. But I'm still going
Devin Booker.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Right there.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Could put some respect on Devin Booker's name. Dog, don't
don't be the prisoner of the moment man.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Jamal Murray one of the most clutch playoff performers we've
seen in the last ten years. I mean, he is
unbelievable in the place, never made an All Star game.
I don't know how that happens. Right next to Brian Allins.
How's this one? Eric Sposter calls you up, Brian love
your announcing. Don't know if you call game one. We're
in a bit of a pickle. We need some thoughts,
some new ideas, outside the box stuff.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
What do you got.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
How do we slow down Yokic? How do we slow
down this Nuggets team? How do we win a game?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Well, you slow down Nikola jokicch by speeding him up.
You have to force him to defend. You have to
force him to have to run vam out of Bayo
or smaller matchup off of the three point line. You
have to make him chase a on the perimeter. You
gotta go out and hunt him and you'll like this
the same way that who Steph Curry gets hunted? Okay,
(28:07):
Steph Curry teams When you want to beat the Warriors,
you find Curry and you make him defend and you
try to tire him out. Now, Yokiic his favor. He's
a big boy. He can send in the paint, he
can use his length and he can defend the rem
but you have to make him a defender. That's the
way that you somewhat slow him down. And a lot
of teams, unfortunately that is their strategy. But when Denver struggles,
(28:29):
it's when they don't defend and when you make Jokic
have to run around and you get the big fellow tired.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Interesting. I mean, Bam Outebao had a damn good game.
It didn't matter.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
You know when Bam scores over twenty I think they
were six to zero in the playoffs. He scored like
a career high in the playoffs twenty six and they
got smacked. Is there anything they can do defensively besides
making Yokic run when they're on offense.
Speaker 8 (28:53):
You gotta give him one thing. He can't have his
cake and eat it too. So if he's gonna go
out and get forty point, he can't have the ten assists. Okay,
he can't have a cherry on top, you know what
I'm saying. Or if he's gonna be a passer, that
means he's scoring under ten points and he's in a
twenty assist range, or he's getting hockey assists. You're getting
the ball out of his hands. You got to meet
(29:15):
him early. You gotta do your work on him, so
you can't give up both. He can't have thirty and fifty.
It's got to be one or the other. And I
think that's your best strategy right now, because he's shown
you he's disciplined enough and patient enough to beat you
at both. And then obviously now we see where Jamal
Murray comes into being a problem because if you do
shut down yogas, Jamal Murray has no problem stepping up
(29:36):
and taking over. He's got that clutch gene.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Let's go to the Nick Nurse addition to the Sixers
interesting press conference where they were pressing him about James Harden.
It didn't seem like exactly a love letter from Nick
Nurse to James Harden to stay you're in Houston. Whether
all the talk is James Harden could be coming back
to Houston where he loves the city, he loves the
night life. They let him be James Ryan Allins today,
(30:01):
would your guest be that James Rden returns yes or no?
Speaker 8 (30:06):
I think James is gonna do whatever he sees fit in.
James's at that stage of his career. It's about winning,
it's about happiness. He's gonna have to choose his path
ultimately at the end of the day. I would be
a static if James came to Houston, and I have
none but respect for him. If he stays in Philly,
I don't think we can read too far into a
coach talking about a player in free agency. Listen, man,
(30:29):
it is good problems to have. If you're James Harden,
Do I go back to Houston? Do I stay in Philly?
Do I possibly see another situation where I can win
the championship. Maybe it's in a Phoenix or somewhere like that.
Maybe it's in maybe Milwaukee. Giannis puts a phone call
in and says, you know, Beard, come here, man. Beat
those two guys who race for MVP and have a
chance at a championship. But if you're James Harden, I
(30:50):
think he's gonna be welcome anywhere. And he still has
a top ten skill set, top five skill set depends
on any given night. In the NBA, he showed you
he can put up forty five in the playoffs, and
I think for him, he's gonna have to just value
you know, do I want to be happy. Do I
want to win? Hey, teammate Wise, he's got rich people problems, Jason,
like you, rich people problems, man, the rich people problems.
(31:11):
Where do you want to go make millions of dollars?
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Man?
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Last question, Ryan, does James Harden fit on the current
Houston roster?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
It's very young, he's not young. Does he fit there?
Speaker 8 (31:23):
I can't believe you're asking me this. Dog, I can't
believe you're asking me this. Okay, So I want you
to notice James Harden's playing style fits anywhere. If James
Harden wants to go out and get you twenty assists,
James Harden can get twenty assists. If he wants to
drop a fifty piece of fifty burger, he can go
and do that. There's versatility in James Harden's game. And
I think that people think that you just see him,
(31:45):
you know, shooting the step back threes and scoring out
a high clip that way, and that's just the only
James Harden. James Harden can give it to you anyway
you want it. It's like burger king baby, you can
have it your way. So I think if James didn't
want to come back and mentor these young guys. He's
more than capable of doing it. If he wants to
go and play amongst other superstars and kind of take
a backseat roll and just be the distributor, he can
(32:06):
do that. I think that James Harden can go and
make his way anywhere in the NBA that he sees fit. So, man,
put some respect on James Hard. Don't ask me nothing
like that again about Jay's hart Man, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Man?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
All right, Ryan Hollins, thanks for stopping by.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Congrats on the new podcast through iHeart NBA Rookie Life
with Ryan Hollins. All right, coming up next, we will
wrap up the show three hours done.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Solo, baby, I can handle it. I'll put the team
on my back like Curry
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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