Nick Wright reacts to Tyrese Haliburton and the Indiana Pacers' stunning performance vs. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder. What has surprised Nick most about this NBA Finals series so far? Later, Nick breaks down the top three landing spots for Phoenix Suns star Kevin Durant including the New York Knicks. Finally, Nick explains why LeBron James vs. Kobe Bryant is not even a debate when it comes to all-time rankings. #Volume #Herd
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Best of the Week for What's Right
with Nick Right the best takes and moments from this
week on the show Enjoy. You said the Pacers had
to win this game, and they went out there and
win it.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Their role players showed up.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Okay, C's role players did little for them, shave and
kind of underwhelmed a little bit. Do you think that
that performance is replicable for the Pacers?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, what I think is this. I think we have
something now that I never thought we were going to have,
which is a real series that could go either way.
And I I'm shocked Indy won that game, and I
know I shouldn't be, because again, five and a half
(00:44):
point underdogs win all the time. It's not like and
they were at home.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
They're at home.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And I understand all of that, I really do. And
if I the only solid I have, I suppose from
a personal perspective, in all you know my terrible poker
results from last week in Vegas's. Had I not had
(01:12):
terrible poker results last week in Vegas, I almost assuredly
would have fired considerably on the thunder to win this
basketball game. Because I have bought in. I have bought
in that the twenty twenty five Oklahoma City Thunder as
far as singular seasons are an all time team that
(01:36):
Indiana did not have an answer for Shay And as
we talked about I think pretty intelligently on Tuesday, it
is just so hard unless you have the best defense
in basketball to win a championship, if your best players
(01:59):
a pass first guy, if he's not a just go
get you a bucket guy. And we talked about it
on Tuesday that the greatest point guards we've seen in
the history of this league, aside from Magic Johnson, we're
not able to crack that code if they were Listen,
(02:20):
Steph did it. Obviously he's not a pass first guy.
Zeke did it. He could have scored more, but also
had the best defense in basketball. But Jason Kidd or
Chris Paul or hell Oscar Robertson before he had a
Keeam or Bob Coosey before he had Russell, Steve Nash,
those guys, It's just so hard because you are going
(02:43):
to come again across a team who's best guy can
go get a bucket whenever he wants And how do
you answer that? And again, I'm not acting as if
the Pacers have won the series. I am acting as if, however,
we now have a series, and now, all of a sudden,
the Pacers have a game to play with the Pacers
(03:06):
demands go into Game four, and I'm sure they won't
view it this way, but it's a house money game.
They go into Game four saying, all right, if we win,
we have a vice script on this series. And if
(03:27):
we lose, we already know we can win in Oklahoma City.
And unlike Game one, which you give the Pacers credit
for their heart and their grit and all of that,
Game one, however, let's be honest, felt fluky. It felt like, okay,
(03:49):
Oklahoma City took their eye off the ball for just
a minute, and the Pacers stormed through that door.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We say it felt fluky.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
If this is what they do, then they get they
get in those late game situations and they can over coming.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think they just did it again.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So but well, that's not what they did here, Oh yeah,
in this is not in this game. I'm talking about
Game one.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So here, here's why I'm saying it didn't feel fluky
that they it hit you know, that Haliburton hit the
game winner. That didn't feel fluky. What felt fluky was
the fact that Oklahoma City led seconds into the game,
the Pacers never closed the gap, that it was a
(04:35):
fourteen point game in the fourth quarter and it was
I and all of a sudden, the Pacers have a
chance to steal it that and you're right, that was
the fourth time they've done that in these playoffs. I
get that. So maybe fluky is the wrong word, Jeeves,
but not They weren't going to win four games that way.
(04:59):
They were not going to win games where Oklahoma City
dominates the game and then they come roaring back like
they've won one game a series that way, and then
game two, when Oklahoma City dominated from start to finish,
that felt to me much more indicative of the game.
(05:19):
We were going to get where the Pacers are good
but Oklahoma City's great, and instead, everything you wanted to
see from Indiana they did. They did bother shay More
Halliburton was more aggressive, Siakam was more efficient, and the
(05:43):
star of the game Benedict Mathern, who has had such
an interesting playoffs. So Matherin who the Pacers beat Demonse
because they never tank, don't have a lot of of
super high draft picks on their team, and in fact,
(06:04):
I think like, I don't know if it's franchise history
like the last thirty years or something, but there's only
two guys that they have drafted in the top nine
or something. I'm gonna get that those details a little wrong,
but it's about that Mathern and a kid who's hurt,
and Matherin was kind of it looked like, oh wait,
(06:25):
is he gonna be odd man out? When in the
Cleveland series Game four he basically gets a DMP coaches decision.
Game five he only plays eleven minutes. Then against the
Knicks Game two, eleven minutes, zero points, Game three, eight minutes,
(06:50):
two points, and it looked like Carlisle was souring on it.
And then Mathern has had in the last six games
three just unbelievable stat lines off the bench Game four
against the Knicks twelve minutes, twenty points, Game five against
(07:16):
the Knicks twenty five minutes, twenty three points, and then
last night Game three against the Thunder twenty two minutes,
twenty seven points. And I'm gonna pull it up so
we have it exactly. But since he was basically it
looked like, oh man, is Carlisle done with him. In
(07:40):
the six games since then, Benedict Mathern has played one
hundred and six minutes and scored ninety three points. The
guy is basically a point a minute over his last
six games. None more important or no worthy than last
(08:01):
night when nobody had an answer for him, when he
just he was the X factor off the bench for them,
and all I'm just so yes, listen, TJ McConnell did
TJ McConnell things. And he loves getting those steals in
(08:23):
the back court. You know, he's just a white man's
Jose Alvarado, like I'm gonna play this scrappy style, I'm
gonna annoy you. He doesn't. He doesn't go out of
bounds and and trick people like that. But he's a pest.
And one of his steals, the one where he just
(08:45):
caught the inbound pass and laid it up, was one
of the dopest things. That was one of the coolest
many highlights of the season. He just jumps up and.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
A couple times with that.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, and so he had he made three baskets, I
feel like they were and he had five steals. So
TJ McConnell off the bench, five steals, Obi Toppin off
the bench four of five from two and some big rebounds,
and Ben matherin man nine of twelve, got to the
(09:24):
free throw line eight times, which is another thing he
did against the Knicks. He drew fouls and got to
the line. He's plus sixteen and twenty two minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He's okay. See, another thing to have to worry about.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
One hundred percent and credit where it's due to Halliburton,
because Halliburton the point that I made. Now, let me
just be clear here. My playoff bracket and my playoff
predictions are in shambles. I have been wrong about three
(10:00):
series picks, more this playoffs than any playoffs I can remember.
And better of the year, which we'll get to later,
is on life support. It's truly on life support. My
in series analysis has been far better. And one of
(10:20):
the points that I'm excuse me, I apologize. One of
the points I made after game two was the Pacers
need to recognize you are not playing a good shot,
good shot, great shot team. You are playing a bad shot,
decent shot. Take the shot. And it felt like Halliburton
(10:44):
understood that. That Haliburton, when his teammates go five of
twenty one from three, when aside from Mathern, nobody hits
more than one three, When aside from Siakam, none of
the other starters really seem like they have it offensively,
(11:06):
he understood, I've got to be a little more aggressive
looking for my own shot, and he did. Now he's
still the ball was still popping and moving, and he's
still had his eleven assists, and he was a rebound
shy of a triple dobbel. But he was a little
more aggressive offensively. And here's the other thing the Pacers do, man,
(11:30):
they wear your ass out where they are. And the
part of this is because Carlisle trusts the bench like
it is remarkable demonse that in a basketball game. That
keep in mind, I thought the thunder kind of stole
the game a sneaky what could have been a sneaky
(11:56):
huge moment was the very end of the third quarter
when the Pacers are up one with thirty five seconds
left and Check gets a dunk and one. Now they're
(12:17):
up too. McConnell misses, you know, like a five footer,
and then j Dubb hits a three basically at the
quarter buzzer, and it went from oh, the Pacers are
gonna have the lead going into the fourth to the
Pacers are down five going into the fourth, and then
(12:37):
it didn't you know, they crushed him in the fourth
thirty two to eighteen. But the fact that Halliburton in
what I felt was a gotta have it, must win
game that was nip and tuck really throughout. He only
played thirty six minutes. Like Halliburton has not played forty
(13:00):
minutes in a regulation playoff game this year, which is
maybe one of the reasons he's so good at the end.
But a de testament to the Pacers that they're able
to do that have their best player on the bench
and not get blown out and the thunder at the
end of this game, we're the tired team. What a performance.
(13:24):
And it is not lost on me that I said
this was to me the most shocking singular Finals game
for me since Game five twenty eleven MAVs heat. And
the coach of the team that pulled off that upset
and the coach of the team that pulled off this
(13:45):
upset are the same guy, Rick Carlisle, who I imagine
once the Finals are over, the Knicks are going to say, hey,
can we interview him? So demonimia.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
One of the questions from the chat, Oh yeah, so,
anonymous three to five four says Nick, what do you
think has been the issue with a lot of pundits
getting behind the Pacers as a good team an autymous
three five four.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I've been there with you, but go ahead, so listen.
I don't think people have denied that the Pacers are
a good team. I do think people have. I think
it's fair to say people have not acted as if
the fact that they have the second best record in
(14:35):
basketball since and I don't think have lost consecutive games
since January one. I think that people have dismissed that,
maybe a little more than they should have. But I
think this was less about a dismissal of Indiana and
more about a reverence for OKAC, who, if we're being honest,
(14:59):
through to games controlled ninety six percent of this series,
ninety six minutes played. OKC led for ninety one, was
tied for two and a half, and trailed for two
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Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yannas shut down any trade rumors that there are a
circulating sin that he would like to be in Milwaukee
next year and win a championship.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So that makes the kate Ea sweepstakes much more interesting.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
In Sham's reported that Houston's San Antotio, Miami, Minnesota, and
the Knicks are all interested.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Which team would you see Katie suiting up for?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Jianna is just waiting for Katie, but pick a team,
so see where he should go.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, So I'm not ready to say the y honest
thing's done. I don't think the honest thing is guaranteed
that he's asking for a trade, but I certainly don't
think it's guaranteed that he's staying in Milwaukee, but the
Yannis trade is going to be more complicated and two
thirds of the league are going to be interested. There
(17:38):
seems to be a lot of smoke surrounding Durant and
the Spurs. That's a fun one that I'm interested in,
But I do not think that team can win a championship.
I just don't think Wimby is ready yet.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
To be Kevin Durant's goal. What a question.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Do you not think it is?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, he wants to go play in San Antonio,
it doesn't necessarily seem like it is. I don't think
that he thinks that he's the missing piece from San
Antonio getting to a championship.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Well, and to be fair, we don't know where he
wants to go play but san Antonio, but it seems
like go ahead. I'm sorry, no, I mean, listen, the Spurs.
It's not like if he were to go to Miami
and pick Miami, then I would say he's not that
worried about winning a title because they can't win, right.
(18:39):
You know, with respect to him, you'd have to give
up something for him, even if you've got a hero
and bam, that team's not good enough. The Spurs. Castle's good,
Dearn Fox is really good, Wimby has unlimited upside. And
if Durance still feels like I'm the you know, fifth
(19:01):
best player in the NBA, even if he's closer to
the fifteenth best player in the NBA, Like, it's not
like he'd be going somewhere where they have no shot whatsoever.
The So the Spurs to me are interesting, but it
wouldn't put them over the top. I am those other
(19:24):
three teams. You could maybe convince me on any of them.
That man, that team could win the title if you
took away Jalen Green's minutes and gave them to Kevin Durant.
They beat the Warriors, like that's that's not even to
(19:44):
me a question. They beat the Warriors and then they
have a real you know what I mean, a real
shot next year, Shingoon a little better. You know, you're
gonna have a great defense with Udoka Like that, to me,
that team is really interesting. Now that's the perfect honest team.
But Houston is really interesting. Anthony Edwards plus Durant, if
(20:10):
Ant can level up just to touch that one's interesting.
And the Knicks. I don't think the Knicks necessarily would
be better than the Knicks with Durant, wouldn't necessarily better
be better than Houston or Minnesota with Durant, but because
one's in the East and ones in the West like
(20:31):
the Knicks, would be a really fascinating one and one
that I would be really interested in seeing how it
plays out. I do think KD has at least one
more elite year left in the tank. And I also
(20:56):
think people need to understand because of his kind, he's
not easy to trade. So like the idea, I know
that Shams has said, or Shams has said, there are
wild card suitors. You gotta find wild card suitors that
aren't second Apron and can get the salaries together and
(21:18):
all of that. And so I would imagine, just my
guess that one of the wild card suitors is the Clippers.
That'd be a very hard trade to pull off. And
that's when I wouldn't like to see. Yeah, I've seen
Durant with Harden, I'm not And like Kawhi's an injury risk,
(21:39):
Durant's an injury risk. I'd like to see Durant be
the old VET on a young team, like you know
what I mean. I think that would be I think
that would be fun. But Durant is one hundred percent
getting traded. Yannis might get traded, and then we'll see
what the other moves are. All right? Do we have
(22:00):
a couple listener questions demand we can get too quickly
before I got to get out of here. Uh?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, we'll catch ass.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Which is more likely Thunder coming back or Demonte's rec
lead team turning it around.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
What's the answer.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I'd honestly say Demandy's rec league team turning it around.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Wow, I think.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That the Pacers. I just think the Pacers are gonna
win this series. Man, that would be great. Can I
just say something else? And I'm gonna bring I'm gonna
bring my our pods set up with us to Miami.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And if the Pacers win Game four Friday night, all
do sometimes Saturday morning, some emergency pod type of thing.
It would be awesome. If the Pacers win. I'm like,
I don't think they're going to, but it would be awesome.
Joseph says, what's up with the gun show today? Demanse
looking all jacked? You know what's so funny? And this
(23:00):
is a compliment, Demonsey, don't take this the wrong way.
I actually was thinking the opposite. I was like, you
need to hit those push ups a little bit more. Man,
You're not as I do though, no for real, like again,
like I mean, you're in great shape and a great athlete,
but just for like when I saw you in your jersey,
I'm like, oh, Demans is a little skinnier than he
(23:20):
was a few months ago.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Like, appreciate Joseph.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Sorry, but Nick, right, muse what did he say? Tomanse
quick grammar check for Nick.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I know Nick will appreciate this. He said change tack
a couple of times now on First Things First and
the Herd, and it's changed tack.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Really, it's so that, thank you. I do appreciate that.
I have said they need to change their tacked tact
and he's saying that the phrases it needs to change tack,
which is t a c K. I didn't know that.
I'll look up why that is.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, Lebron might be the NBA's leading scorer, but what
does that mean when you got no.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Bag on mine?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
In the game, Lebron said, I see all the time
I'll be on social media and like Lebron has no bag.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Lebron has no.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Bag, and I'm sitting here like I got fifty billion points.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I thought he should have said I've got fifty billion chips,
like word played on like a bag of chips.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
But Lebron be the undisputed goat if he's got no bag.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Okay, so let me go. Let me ask you this,
what do you think having a bag means? Because it's
this is not an agreed upon definition, and I think
that is an important piece to it. So I'm curious
where you what you think?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Okay, I think having a bag is is James Harden
that's like like Steph Curry, just just a go to
move or or a bag of.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Moves that you can go to to break the defender down.
I just think it's offense. It's offensive game.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I don't think it's anything outside of that. No, So
it's and it's it's definitely offense and definitely related to scoring, right,
Like I think everybody agrees on that. So here is
what I think is fair and true, and here is
what I think is just nonsense. Right. So I think,
(25:25):
what do you think the weakest part of Lebron's offensive
game is? Because I think it's very clear. I think
there is one thing that offensively he is average at
I would say it's just league average.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Could stop, go, stop start.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Well, maybe we're saying the same thing just general ball handling.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Oh okay, he's not an elite.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
He's not an elite ball handler. And so if people
if by bag they mean like a Kyrie's style, like
fifteen dribble move, then sure, then yeah, Lebron's not going
to be one of your top thirty picks of people
when it comes to ball handling like the he I
(26:14):
think Durant at seven feet tall might be a better
ball handler like I do. And so like that is
to me, that's a if that's what people are talking about,
that's actually accurate. Now to Lebron's point, is it possible
(26:35):
that not just kids on Twitter, but also retired NBA
players on horrific podcasts wildly overrate the bag. If to
Lebron's point, he's got fifty thousand points and doesn't have one,
then yeah, then maybe it's not quite as important as
(26:58):
you think. So if we're just saying bag is ball handling,
then it's probably it's probably true. Here is where I
think it gets a little though misconstrued or misleading. If
by bag. People are talking about ability to score from
(27:23):
anywhere on the court at any time. Lebron's as good
as anyone in the history of the league being a
and this is where, and this is again where we
will simply run into folks who some I'm sure are
in the chat right now, who are going to try
(27:45):
to douce a lot of mental gymnastics around the numbers
and the facts, which is now. Lebron early in his career,
didn't you know, was not a good jump shooter. But
the benefit of playing twenty two years is even if
(28:07):
you weren't good at something for the first seven, there
were fifteen years you were good at it. So like
even be like, oh, Lebron couldn't shoot, But by year
nine he was literally forty one percent from three. His
third year in Miami, I guess that would have been
(28:28):
year ten, and then you know, that was year ten
for him was still the first half of his career
in Miami, he developed his three point shot. His second
stint in Cleveland, he developed his mid range shot, particularly
the turnaround, and since then has been the idea that
(28:50):
he's gotten his fifty thousand points by putting his head
down and just going to the rim one hundred times
a game. Again, that's just blied by the date, uh
and by the date I mean the games are on TV.
You can see where the shots are made, all of it.
That he has the same shot People talk about him
as if he has the same shot chart as Shack did.
(29:12):
That it was lay up, some free throws, done some
free throws. But this is where now we are, and
this is why and I you always have to be
sensitive here because of obviously the tragedy surrounding is passing.
But the juxtaposition of Kobe versus Lebron, as far as
(29:39):
what the actual truth is and was versus how they
are remembered, has always been very interesting because if you
ask one hundred NBA fans who was the better three
point shooter, Kobe or Lebron, the vast majority are going
(30:06):
to say Kobe Bryant, despite the fact that any possible
way you slice it, it's not true. And I will
and that's you know, that's bag for some it's like
your ability, like I said, to score from all three levels.
So Kobe for his career was thirty two point nine
(30:31):
percent from three Lebron for his career thirty four point
nine percent from three. Oh well, Nick, Kobe shot way more. No,
he didn't. Kobe for his career four point one attempts
per game, Lebron for his career four point seven attempts
(30:52):
per game. Well, Kobe was better in the playoffs. No,
for his career from three, his three point percentage is
thirty three point one percent on four attempts per game.
Lebron for his career in the playoffs is thirty three
(31:13):
percent on four point one attempts per game. Well, oh wait,
hold on, had I got that last one exactly wrong?
I apologize because I read Kobe's I read Kobe STAPs twice.
Kobe for his career in the playoffs thirty three point
one percent on four attempts per game four point zero exactly.
(31:37):
Lebron for his career in the playoffs thirty three point
three percent, essentially the same. Lebron to took better, but
on four point nine attempts per game. Oh well, Nick,
And this is one you'll hear when people are really
at this point grasping, Nick, the game's changed so much,
even though Lebron and Kobe played in the league together
(31:58):
for a more than a dec Okay, so if you
just take Lebron's career and stop it. When Kobe retired,
Kobe again for his career, thirty three point one percent
on four point zero attempts per game. Look, that's for
(32:21):
the playoffs, and for the regular season Kobe thirty two
point nine on four point one attempts per game, basically
identical for Kobe regular season of playoffs he retired in
twenty sixteen. Lebron his rookie year through the date of
Kobe's retirement the exact same number of three point attempts
(32:42):
per game four point zero and Kobe's thirty two point
nine Lebron thirty four point zero. And so this isn't
a I'm not trying to do like a Kobe versus
Lebron thing, because I think that's a silly, really unten argument,
as much as people try to make it one. The
(33:04):
reason I am mentioning that is because that is as
clear and as clean and as matter of fact as
data can get, and people simply will say, I do
not believe that. That's not how I remember it, which
(33:25):
is that and the people in the chat can get
as angry as they want and they say that's longevity,
even though it's per game that that's a different era,
even if we just go year per year. In their
mind's eye, Kobe was a dominant three point assassin, and
(33:47):
in their mind's eye, Lebron was just putting his shoulder
down and get into the rim. Despite the fact that
at the date of Kobe's retirement, he averaged the exact
same number of three point attempts per game as Lebron
did and shot him worse. It's just what the facts were.
So when Lebron is talking about I'm get on social
(34:10):
media and say Lebron didn't have a bag or this
or that, it's because so much of that is it's
not revisionist history. It's just absolute fake news so to speak,
that people will believe to their dying breath. Like one
(34:33):
of the number one questions people will ask is, okay,
so whatever you're gonna say, Lebron's better than Kobe because
of you know, he played longer or whatever it is. However,
but one shot life on the line and then you
tell him, well playoff game winners. Like we just talked
(34:55):
before Lebron took was eight of twenty, Kobe was four
of eighteen. People will simply say, I don't believe you
even though it is what it is. And so now
doctor Frank says in the chat, but would you say
Kobe had a deeper bag than Lebron? I think there's
an argument there. Yes, they're a hunt, ye, because I
(35:17):
Kobe was a better mid range shot maker than Lebron,
and I think Kobe was a better ball handler than Lebron.
That one I agree with here, Yeah, yeah, on the
back you agree, Yeah, there is. But the that then
circles back to the more I think interesting question is.
(35:44):
But then what does it really matter except for again
to be fair, because I am I gotta tell you,
among other things, I'm the most I'm the fairest arguer
in sports media because I will often make an argument
and while I'm making it, because it's how my brain works,
(36:06):
think like, oh does this contradict something you were making?
Argument you're making about something else, and how do you
reconcile those two? So, while how deep your bag is
might be overrated when it comes to your effectiveness as
a player, as evidenced by our discussion about why people
(36:31):
were more maybe attracted to Russell Westbrook's style of play
than Shay Gilgess Alexander's how deep your bag is certainly
has to do as an impact on popularity. Grabbing the
casual fan highlights things like that, that part there is
(36:52):
a real impact, Zi
Welcome to the Best of the Week for What's Right
with Nick Right the best takes and moments from this
week on the show Enjoy. You said the Pacers had
to win this game, and they went out there and
win it.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Their role players showed up.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Okay, C's role players did little for them, shave and
kind of underwhelmed a little bit. Do you think that
that performance is replicable for the Pacers?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, what I think is this. I think we have
something now that I never thought we were going to have,
which is a real series that could go either way.
And I I'm shocked Indy won that game, and I
know I shouldn't be, because again, five and a half
(00:44):
point underdogs win all the time. It's not like and
they were at home.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
They're at home.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And I understand all of that, I really do. And
if I the only solid I have, I suppose from
a personal perspective, in all you know my terrible poker
results from last week in Vegas's. Had I not had
(01:12):
terrible poker results last week in Vegas, I almost assuredly
would have fired considerably on the thunder to win this
basketball game. Because I have bought in. I have bought
in that the twenty twenty five Oklahoma City Thunder as
far as singular seasons are an all time team that
(01:36):
Indiana did not have an answer for Shay And as
we talked about I think pretty intelligently on Tuesday, it
is just so hard unless you have the best defense
in basketball to win a championship, if your best players
(01:59):
a pass first guy, if he's not a just go
get you a bucket guy. And we talked about it
on Tuesday that the greatest point guards we've seen in
the history of this league, aside from Magic Johnson, we're
not able to crack that code if they were Listen,
(02:20):
Steph did it. Obviously he's not a pass first guy.
Zeke did it. He could have scored more, but also
had the best defense in basketball. But Jason Kidd or
Chris Paul or hell Oscar Robertson before he had a
Keeam or Bob Coosey before he had Russell, Steve Nash,
those guys, It's just so hard because you are going
(02:43):
to come again across a team who's best guy can
go get a bucket whenever he wants And how do
you answer that? And again, I'm not acting as if
the Pacers have won the series. I am acting as if, however,
we now have a series, and now, all of a sudden,
the Pacers have a game to play with the Pacers
(03:06):
demands go into Game four, and I'm sure they won't
view it this way, but it's a house money game.
They go into Game four saying, all right, if we win,
we have a vice script on this series. And if
(03:27):
we lose, we already know we can win in Oklahoma City.
And unlike Game one, which you give the Pacers credit
for their heart and their grit and all of that,
Game one, however, let's be honest, felt fluky. It felt like, okay,
(03:49):
Oklahoma City took their eye off the ball for just
a minute, and the Pacers stormed through that door.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We say it felt fluky.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
If this is what they do, then they get they
get in those late game situations and they can over coming.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think they just did it again.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So but well, that's not what they did here, Oh yeah,
in this is not in this game. I'm talking about
Game one.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So here, here's why I'm saying it didn't feel fluky
that they it hit you know, that Haliburton hit the
game winner. That didn't feel fluky. What felt fluky was
the fact that Oklahoma City led seconds into the game,
the Pacers never closed the gap, that it was a
(04:35):
fourteen point game in the fourth quarter and it was
I and all of a sudden, the Pacers have a
chance to steal it that and you're right, that was
the fourth time they've done that in these playoffs. I
get that. So maybe fluky is the wrong word, Jeeves,
but not They weren't going to win four games that way.
(04:59):
They were not going to win games where Oklahoma City
dominates the game and then they come roaring back like
they've won one game a series that way, and then
game two, when Oklahoma City dominated from start to finish,
that felt to me much more indicative of the game.
(05:19):
We were going to get where the Pacers are good
but Oklahoma City's great, and instead, everything you wanted to
see from Indiana they did. They did bother shay More
Halliburton was more aggressive, Siakam was more efficient, and the
(05:43):
star of the game Benedict Mathern, who has had such
an interesting playoffs. So Matherin who the Pacers beat Demonse
because they never tank, don't have a lot of of
super high draft picks on their team, and in fact,
(06:04):
I think like, I don't know if it's franchise history
like the last thirty years or something, but there's only
two guys that they have drafted in the top nine
or something. I'm gonna get that those details a little wrong,
but it's about that Mathern and a kid who's hurt,
and Matherin was kind of it looked like, oh wait,
(06:25):
is he gonna be odd man out? When in the
Cleveland series Game four he basically gets a DMP coaches decision.
Game five he only plays eleven minutes. Then against the
Knicks Game two, eleven minutes, zero points, Game three, eight minutes,
(06:50):
two points, and it looked like Carlisle was souring on it.
And then Mathern has had in the last six games
three just unbelievable stat lines off the bench Game four
against the Knicks twelve minutes, twenty points, Game five against
(07:16):
the Knicks twenty five minutes, twenty three points, and then
last night Game three against the Thunder twenty two minutes,
twenty seven points. And I'm gonna pull it up so
we have it exactly. But since he was basically it
looked like, oh man, is Carlisle done with him. In
(07:40):
the six games since then, Benedict Mathern has played one
hundred and six minutes and scored ninety three points. The
guy is basically a point a minute over his last
six games. None more important or no worthy than last
(08:01):
night when nobody had an answer for him, when he
just he was the X factor off the bench for them,
and all I'm just so yes, listen, TJ McConnell did
TJ McConnell things. And he loves getting those steals in
(08:23):
the back court. You know, he's just a white man's
Jose Alvarado, like I'm gonna play this scrappy style, I'm
gonna annoy you. He doesn't. He doesn't go out of
bounds and and trick people like that. But he's a pest.
And one of his steals, the one where he just
(08:45):
caught the inbound pass and laid it up, was one
of the dopest things. That was one of the coolest
many highlights of the season. He just jumps up and.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
A couple times with that.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, and so he had he made three baskets, I
feel like they were and he had five steals. So
TJ McConnell off the bench, five steals, Obi Toppin off
the bench four of five from two and some big rebounds,
and Ben matherin man nine of twelve, got to the
(09:24):
free throw line eight times, which is another thing he
did against the Knicks. He drew fouls and got to
the line. He's plus sixteen and twenty two minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
He's okay. See, another thing to have to worry about.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
One hundred percent and credit where it's due to Halliburton,
because Halliburton the point that I made. Now, let me
just be clear here. My playoff bracket and my playoff
predictions are in shambles. I have been wrong about three
(10:00):
series picks, more this playoffs than any playoffs I can remember.
And better of the year, which we'll get to later,
is on life support. It's truly on life support. My
in series analysis has been far better. And one of
(10:20):
the points that I'm excuse me, I apologize. One of
the points I made after game two was the Pacers
need to recognize you are not playing a good shot,
good shot, great shot team. You are playing a bad shot,
decent shot. Take the shot. And it felt like Halliburton
(10:44):
understood that. That Haliburton, when his teammates go five of
twenty one from three, when aside from Mathern, nobody hits
more than one three, When aside from Siakam, none of
the other starters really seem like they have it offensively,
(11:06):
he understood, I've got to be a little more aggressive
looking for my own shot, and he did. Now he's
still the ball was still popping and moving, and he's
still had his eleven assists, and he was a rebound
shy of a triple dobbel. But he was a little
more aggressive offensively. And here's the other thing the Pacers do, man,
(11:30):
they wear your ass out where they are. And the
part of this is because Carlisle trusts the bench like
it is remarkable demonse that in a basketball game. That
keep in mind, I thought the thunder kind of stole
the game a sneaky what could have been a sneaky
(11:56):
huge moment was the very end of the third quarter
when the Pacers are up one with thirty five seconds
left and Check gets a dunk and one. Now they're
(12:17):
up too. McConnell misses, you know, like a five footer,
and then j Dubb hits a three basically at the
quarter buzzer, and it went from oh, the Pacers are
gonna have the lead going into the fourth to the
Pacers are down five going into the fourth, and then
(12:37):
it didn't you know, they crushed him in the fourth
thirty two to eighteen. But the fact that Halliburton in
what I felt was a gotta have it, must win
game that was nip and tuck really throughout. He only
played thirty six minutes. Like Halliburton has not played forty
(13:00):
minutes in a regulation playoff game this year, which is
maybe one of the reasons he's so good at the end.
But a de testament to the Pacers that they're able
to do that have their best player on the bench
and not get blown out and the thunder at the
end of this game, we're the tired team. What a performance.
(13:24):
And it is not lost on me that I said
this was to me the most shocking singular Finals game
for me since Game five twenty eleven MAVs heat. And
the coach of the team that pulled off that upset
and the coach of the team that pulled off this
(13:45):
upset are the same guy, Rick Carlisle, who I imagine
once the Finals are over, the Knicks are going to say, hey,
can we interview him? So demonimia.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
One of the questions from the chat, Oh yeah, so,
anonymous three to five four says Nick, what do you
think has been the issue with a lot of pundits
getting behind the Pacers as a good team an autymous
three five four.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I've been there with you, but go ahead, so listen.
I don't think people have denied that the Pacers are
a good team. I do think people have. I think
it's fair to say people have not acted as if
the fact that they have the second best record in
(14:35):
basketball since and I don't think have lost consecutive games
since January one. I think that people have dismissed that,
maybe a little more than they should have. But I
think this was less about a dismissal of Indiana and
more about a reverence for OKAC, who, if we're being honest,
(14:59):
through to games controlled ninety six percent of this series,
ninety six minutes played. OKC led for ninety one, was
tied for two and a half, and trailed for two
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Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yannas shut down any trade rumors that there are a
circulating sin that he would like to be in Milwaukee
next year and win a championship.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So that makes the kate Ea sweepstakes much more interesting.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
In Sham's reported that Houston's San Antotio, Miami, Minnesota, and
the Knicks are all interested.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Which team would you see Katie suiting up for?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Jianna is just waiting for Katie, but pick a team,
so see where he should go.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, So I'm not ready to say the y honest
thing's done. I don't think the honest thing is guaranteed
that he's asking for a trade, but I certainly don't
think it's guaranteed that he's staying in Milwaukee, but the
Yannis trade is going to be more complicated and two
thirds of the league are going to be interested. There
(17:38):
seems to be a lot of smoke surrounding Durant and
the Spurs. That's a fun one that I'm interested in,
But I do not think that team can win a championship.
I just don't think Wimby is ready yet.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
To be Kevin Durant's goal. What a question.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Do you not think it is?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, he wants to go play in San Antonio,
it doesn't necessarily seem like it is. I don't think
that he thinks that he's the missing piece from San
Antonio getting to a championship.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Well, and to be fair, we don't know where he
wants to go play but san Antonio, but it seems
like go ahead. I'm sorry, no, I mean, listen, the Spurs.
It's not like if he were to go to Miami
and pick Miami, then I would say he's not that
worried about winning a title because they can't win, right.
(18:39):
You know, with respect to him, you'd have to give
up something for him, even if you've got a hero
and bam, that team's not good enough. The Spurs. Castle's good,
Dearn Fox is really good, Wimby has unlimited upside. And
if Durance still feels like I'm the you know, fifth
(19:01):
best player in the NBA, even if he's closer to
the fifteenth best player in the NBA, Like, it's not
like he'd be going somewhere where they have no shot whatsoever.
The So the Spurs to me are interesting, but it
wouldn't put them over the top. I am those other
(19:24):
three teams. You could maybe convince me on any of them.
That man, that team could win the title if you
took away Jalen Green's minutes and gave them to Kevin Durant.
They beat the Warriors, like that's that's not even to
(19:44):
me a question. They beat the Warriors and then they
have a real you know what I mean, a real
shot next year, Shingoon a little better. You know, you're
gonna have a great defense with Udoka Like that, to me,
that team is really interesting. Now that's the perfect honest team.
But Houston is really interesting. Anthony Edwards plus Durant, if
(20:10):
Ant can level up just to touch that one's interesting.
And the Knicks. I don't think the Knicks necessarily would
be better than the Knicks with Durant, wouldn't necessarily better
be better than Houston or Minnesota with Durant, but because
one's in the East and ones in the West like
(20:31):
the Knicks, would be a really fascinating one and one
that I would be really interested in seeing how it
plays out. I do think KD has at least one
more elite year left in the tank. And I also
(20:56):
think people need to understand because of his kind, he's
not easy to trade. So like the idea, I know
that Shams has said, or Shams has said, there are
wild card suitors. You gotta find wild card suitors that
aren't second Apron and can get the salaries together and
(21:18):
all of that. And so I would imagine, just my
guess that one of the wild card suitors is the Clippers.
That'd be a very hard trade to pull off. And
that's when I wouldn't like to see. Yeah, I've seen
Durant with Harden, I'm not And like Kawhi's an injury risk,
(21:39):
Durant's an injury risk. I'd like to see Durant be
the old VET on a young team, like you know
what I mean. I think that would be I think
that would be fun. But Durant is one hundred percent
getting traded. Yannis might get traded, and then we'll see
what the other moves are. All right? Do we have
(22:00):
a couple listener questions demand we can get too quickly
before I got to get out of here. Uh?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, we'll catch ass.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Which is more likely Thunder coming back or Demonte's rec
lead team turning it around.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
What's the answer.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I'd honestly say Demandy's rec league team turning it around.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Wow, I think.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That the Pacers. I just think the Pacers are gonna
win this series. Man, that would be great. Can I
just say something else? And I'm gonna bring I'm gonna
bring my our pods set up with us to Miami.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And if the Pacers win Game four Friday night, all
do sometimes Saturday morning, some emergency pod type of thing.
It would be awesome. If the Pacers win. I'm like,
I don't think they're going to, but it would be awesome.
Joseph says, what's up with the gun show today? Demanse
looking all jacked? You know what's so funny? And this
(23:00):
is a compliment, Demonsey, don't take this the wrong way.
I actually was thinking the opposite. I was like, you
need to hit those push ups a little bit more. Man,
You're not as I do though, no for real, like again,
like I mean, you're in great shape and a great athlete,
but just for like when I saw you in your jersey,
I'm like, oh, Demans is a little skinnier than he
(23:20):
was a few months ago.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Like, appreciate Joseph.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Sorry, but Nick, right, muse what did he say? Tomanse
quick grammar check for Nick.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I know Nick will appreciate this. He said change tack
a couple of times now on First Things First and
the Herd, and it's changed tack.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Really, it's so that, thank you. I do appreciate that.
I have said they need to change their tacked tact
and he's saying that the phrases it needs to change tack,
which is t a c K. I didn't know that.
I'll look up why that is.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I had no idea.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, Lebron might be the NBA's leading scorer, but what
does that mean when you got no.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Bag on mine?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
In the game, Lebron said, I see all the time
I'll be on social media and like Lebron has no bag.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Lebron has no.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Bag, and I'm sitting here like I got fifty billion points.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I thought he should have said I've got fifty billion chips,
like word played on like a bag of chips.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
But Lebron be the undisputed goat if he's got no bag.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Okay, so let me go. Let me ask you this,
what do you think having a bag means? Because it's
this is not an agreed upon definition, and I think
that is an important piece to it. So I'm curious
where you what you think?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Okay, I think having a bag is is James Harden
that's like like Steph Curry, just just a go to
move or or a bag of.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Moves that you can go to to break the defender down.
I just think it's offense. It's offensive game.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I don't think it's anything outside of that. No, So
it's and it's it's definitely offense and definitely related to scoring, right,
Like I think everybody agrees on that. So here is
what I think is fair and true, and here is
what I think is just nonsense. Right. So I think,
(25:25):
what do you think the weakest part of Lebron's offensive
game is? Because I think it's very clear. I think
there is one thing that offensively he is average at
I would say it's just league average.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Could stop, go, stop start.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Well, maybe we're saying the same thing just general ball handling.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Oh okay, he's not an elite.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
He's not an elite ball handler. And so if people
if by bag they mean like a Kyrie's style, like
fifteen dribble move, then sure, then yeah, Lebron's not going
to be one of your top thirty picks of people
when it comes to ball handling like the he I
(26:14):
think Durant at seven feet tall might be a better
ball handler like I do. And so like that is
to me, that's a if that's what people are talking about,
that's actually accurate. Now to Lebron's point, is it possible
(26:35):
that not just kids on Twitter, but also retired NBA
players on horrific podcasts wildly overrate the bag. If to
Lebron's point, he's got fifty thousand points and doesn't have one,
then yeah, then maybe it's not quite as important as
(26:58):
you think. So if we're just saying bag is ball handling,
then it's probably it's probably true. Here is where I
think it gets a little though misconstrued or misleading. If
by bag. People are talking about ability to score from
(27:23):
anywhere on the court at any time. Lebron's as good
as anyone in the history of the league being a
and this is where, and this is again where we
will simply run into folks who some I'm sure are
in the chat right now, who are going to try
(27:45):
to douce a lot of mental gymnastics around the numbers
and the facts, which is now. Lebron early in his career,
didn't you know, was not a good jump shooter. But
the benefit of playing twenty two years is even if
(28:07):
you weren't good at something for the first seven, there
were fifteen years you were good at it. So like
even be like, oh, Lebron couldn't shoot, But by year
nine he was literally forty one percent from three. His
third year in Miami, I guess that would have been
(28:28):
year ten, and then you know, that was year ten
for him was still the first half of his career
in Miami, he developed his three point shot. His second
stint in Cleveland, he developed his mid range shot, particularly
the turnaround, and since then has been the idea that
(28:50):
he's gotten his fifty thousand points by putting his head
down and just going to the rim one hundred times
a game. Again, that's just blied by the date, uh
and by the date I mean the games are on TV.
You can see where the shots are made, all of it.
That he has the same shot People talk about him
as if he has the same shot chart as Shack did.
(29:12):
That it was lay up, some free throws, done some
free throws. But this is where now we are, and
this is why and I you always have to be
sensitive here because of obviously the tragedy surrounding is passing.
But the juxtaposition of Kobe versus Lebron, as far as
(29:39):
what the actual truth is and was versus how they
are remembered, has always been very interesting because if you
ask one hundred NBA fans who was the better three
point shooter, Kobe or Lebron, the vast majority are going
(30:06):
to say Kobe Bryant, despite the fact that any possible
way you slice it, it's not true. And I will
and that's you know, that's bag for some it's like
your ability, like I said, to score from all three levels.
So Kobe for his career was thirty two point nine
(30:31):
percent from three Lebron for his career thirty four point
nine percent from three. Oh well, Nick, Kobe shot way more. No,
he didn't. Kobe for his career four point one attempts
per game, Lebron for his career four point seven attempts
(30:52):
per game. Well, Kobe was better in the playoffs. No,
for his career from three, his three point percentage is
thirty three point one percent on four attempts per game.
Lebron for his career in the playoffs is thirty three
(31:13):
percent on four point one attempts per game. Well, oh wait,
hold on, had I got that last one exactly wrong?
I apologize because I read Kobe's I read Kobe STAPs twice.
Kobe for his career in the playoffs thirty three point
one percent on four attempts per game four point zero exactly.
(31:37):
Lebron for his career in the playoffs thirty three point
three percent, essentially the same. Lebron to took better, but
on four point nine attempts per game. Oh well, Nick,
And this is one you'll hear when people are really
at this point grasping, Nick, the game's changed so much,
even though Lebron and Kobe played in the league together
(31:58):
for a more than a dec Okay, so if you
just take Lebron's career and stop it. When Kobe retired,
Kobe again for his career, thirty three point one percent
on four point zero attempts per game. Look, that's for
(32:21):
the playoffs, and for the regular season Kobe thirty two
point nine on four point one attempts per game, basically
identical for Kobe regular season of playoffs he retired in
twenty sixteen. Lebron his rookie year through the date of
Kobe's retirement the exact same number of three point attempts
(32:42):
per game four point zero and Kobe's thirty two point
nine Lebron thirty four point zero. And so this isn't
a I'm not trying to do like a Kobe versus
Lebron thing, because I think that's a silly, really unten argument,
as much as people try to make it one. The
(33:04):
reason I am mentioning that is because that is as
clear and as clean and as matter of fact as
data can get, and people simply will say, I do
not believe that. That's not how I remember it, which
(33:25):
is that and the people in the chat can get
as angry as they want and they say that's longevity,
even though it's per game that that's a different era,
even if we just go year per year. In their
mind's eye, Kobe was a dominant three point assassin, and
(33:47):
in their mind's eye, Lebron was just putting his shoulder
down and get into the rim. Despite the fact that
at the date of Kobe's retirement, he averaged the exact
same number of three point attempts per game as Lebron
did and shot him worse. It's just what the facts were.
So when Lebron is talking about I'm get on social
(34:10):
media and say Lebron didn't have a bag or this
or that, it's because so much of that is it's
not revisionist history. It's just absolute fake news so to speak,
that people will believe to their dying breath. Like one
(34:33):
of the number one questions people will ask is, okay,
so whatever you're gonna say, Lebron's better than Kobe because
of you know, he played longer or whatever it is. However,
but one shot life on the line and then you
tell him, well playoff game winners. Like we just talked
(34:55):
before Lebron took was eight of twenty, Kobe was four
of eighteen. People will simply say, I don't believe you
even though it is what it is. And so now
doctor Frank says in the chat, but would you say
Kobe had a deeper bag than Lebron? I think there's
an argument there. Yes, they're a hunt, ye, because I
(35:17):
Kobe was a better mid range shot maker than Lebron,
and I think Kobe was a better ball handler than Lebron.
That one I agree with here, Yeah, yeah, on the
back you agree, Yeah, there is. But the that then
circles back to the more I think interesting question is.
(35:44):
But then what does it really matter except for again
to be fair, because I am I gotta tell you,
among other things, I'm the most I'm the fairest arguer
in sports media because I will often make an argument
and while I'm making it, because it's how my brain works,
(36:06):
think like, oh does this contradict something you were making?
Argument you're making about something else, and how do you
reconcile those two? So, while how deep your bag is
might be overrated when it comes to your effectiveness as
a player, as evidenced by our discussion about why people
(36:31):
were more maybe attracted to Russell Westbrook's style of play
than Shay Gilgess Alexander's how deep your bag is certainly
has to do as an impact on popularity. Grabbing the
casual fan highlights things like that, that part there is
(36:52):
a real impact, Zi
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