July 12, 2022 • 34 mins
Arnie Spanier & Chris Plank filling in for Jason and Mike react to DeShaun Watson new information in the NFL investigation, Jason La Canfora - Audacy & 1057 The Fan NFL Insider and Dan Lust - Sports Attorney/Law Professor joins the guys!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of The Jason Smith
Show with My Carmen podcast. Be sure to catch us
live every week night from ten pm to two a m.
Eastern seven to eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Jason Smith Show with
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by searching f s R. This is the best of
(00:22):
the Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon on Fox Sports Radio.
Let's go stinking, Ja, Let's go big, let us let's
roll on a Monday night. I'm fired up. How are
you spend a minute since we talked? Right? Been a
busy day today, twenty four hours ago? Five Actually what
(00:45):
am I saying? It would be twenty five hours ago
last week talk? You had a busy day to day?
What the hell did you do? I just slept all day,
That's what I was thinking. Beauty, sleep in there. I'll
tell you what he did. And Justin can attest to this.
You blew me up all day with with screenshots of tweets.
What do you do today, Arnie? I guys sent Plank
(01:05):
and Justin about five thousand things. Maybe two of them
will get to talk about today. Geez, you are over prepper.
What time did he start bugging you tie shirt to
try to get connected? Like noon? I was talking to
him last week, you guys. But listen, it's why you're
the King's why you're the greatest man. It's number one
(01:26):
in Fox Sports Radio. That's right, That's right. It only
took um let's see everyone being out or on vacation
or sick or unavailable for both you and I to
get this opportunity tonight. But I'm pumped, man. And did
you see what Justin hooked up for us guest wise tonight? No,
I did not we get to talk to job. Of
course you didn't. You were too busy sitting at screenshot
(01:48):
about Jimmy Garofolo. Um, we're gonna chat with Jason Lackin
for and what I think it's fair to say is
his regular time slot here with Jason and Mike on
Fox Sports Radio. And then in our number two we're
gonna talk to Dan lust I. I'm a big fan
of Dan lust He is somebody that I feel like
as sports fans we need and and and should listen
(02:09):
to because I feel like Artie, you have to be
You've got to be uh an economist, you have to
be a salary person and anymore in sports, you gotta
have a legal team. So we've got our legal team
headlined by Dan Lust coming up. And it's always we
like to carry over our passion for Twitter dot com
here on a Monday night. If you know what you
(02:30):
want to talk about, you want to get involved in
the show, hit us up on Twitter. That's at Stinking
Genius one. That's Artie um at Plank Show. And everybody
should be following us at Fox Sports Radio. All right,
you want to start something Shaun Watson stuff or let's
do it. You know, I thought we're gonna get a
little bit of news on that and we I thought
we're gonna get some weak stuff earlier today. From that,
I felt like we did. So you tell me whether
(02:54):
or not you felt like this was or was not
a big deal. The report that Josina Anderson and and
then I guess you could depends on which order you
want to go. If you want to give Josina the credit.
She she had it on my timeline first, and I
saw Mike Florio got a little bit in depth. The
report is now that the league's case against the Shawn
(03:16):
Watson centers on only four women, and that a fifth
woman was not even interviewed by the league. So to
get it, and again, this is a big story because
well a, if I try to put chat Homegrin in
the Summer League Hall of Fame right now, or if
I get too carried away with the Mets game, my distraction,
I'm just gonna be so distracted from this show. So
(03:37):
let's focus on this legal issue. Hid HiT's the three
you take that Orlando Summer League team, Arnie, I'm so perplexed,
which is why I think we need a good one
to punch of an NFL insider and a legal guy.
How in the world can you have twenty two plus
cases allegations maybe is the better way to put it.
(04:00):
Then went to twenty four and then the New York
Post had its selational piece or maybe it was The Times.
I apologize that said as many as sixty six were involved,
and they had some They had some pretty heavy details
in some of those. Arnie, How in the world can
it go from having that many allegations to yeah, we're
gonna focus on five. You know what, make that four?
That's the first part of this, where did this disconnect happen?
(04:23):
Where you went from what appeared to be a bevy
of accusers too. Now in the case of what the
NFL is trying to show that hey, he violated our
conduct policy, they're only focusing on on four women again
for too many? Right, let's me one is too many.
But this just seems odd, does it not? Well? You know,
because I'm not sure exactly why you find this out.
(04:45):
I think I said this to you a while ago
that when the other twenty or whatever it was that
was settled, I said, part of the settlement was you're
not allowed to speak to anybody, the NFL, police, investigators,
whatever it's settled, it's done. Um, you can no longer
would say anything about it. So I didn't think that
the NFL was gonna be able to talk to those
women anyway, So that left I felt like six. I
(05:07):
guess we thought five now down the fourth, so joy
a difference of one. Uh the way. Thing I don't
understand is I thought he was still gonna be punished
based on the other twenty women, whether it was criminal
or not, whether it was just conduct detrimental to the league.
And I doesn't doesn't look that way right now, does it?
Chris question, fair fair point on on Urine Arnie span
(05:27):
your fair point on on on your end. But what
the hell was the NFL doing in the fifteen months
prior to the agreements that were made three weeks ago
between the Shawn Watson and these women. I was thinking
about that also, And if I was the women, I
don't think I would have spoke to the NFL. Even
before I had an attorney, I wasn't gonna speak to
the NFL. And once I got an attorney, what do
you think my attorney said, you don't speak to anybody,
(05:50):
including the NFL. So when exactly was the NFL go
to speak to these other women anyway? I again, you
don't have to speak to the other twenty women to
know that maybe something you know, miss you know it's appropriate. Yeah,
something was wrong here and that should be part of
your punishment. But it doesn't look like that's gonna be
(06:11):
like that. And now it's gonna be based, as you said,
on the four women that are left, which makes me
think this is gonna be like maybe a four to
six games suspension or something like that. So then here's
the other part of it because I don't disagree with you.
Here's the other part of it. Why is this and
how is this information getting out? Judge Sue Robinson, from
(06:31):
everything we know, has never been involved with any case
involving athletics, right, She's never worked with the NFL before,
she's never worked with the NBA, She's never worked in
athletics at all. So why is this out? How did
this get out? How did we truly get this story?
(06:51):
And I some might say really good reporting. Really, I
mean it's almost as if and I'm not trying to
dismiss anything that Josina our Pro Football Talk hat don't
take it that way, but it almost appears something like
this is purposefully leaked in an Again, we got Jason
Latin for I can We're gonna ask him coming up
in just a bit, but in a in a case
(07:13):
that has been so that's the best way to put this.
Arnie mishandled. It seems from the start by the NFL's
investigators by maybe maybe even I mean DeShawn Watson's attorney
sticks his foot in his mouth at least once every
other wing. Same thing for Tony Buzzby and the attorney
for the accusers It's almost as if everyone can't get
(07:33):
out of their own way in this case period. But
who how is this hitting out? Yeah? But on which
side leaked it? I mean, was it the Shaun? Was
it Deshaun Watson's legal team that leaked it to say, hey, um,
they really don't have a case to suspend them for
the entire year. So when they come back with a
four or six games suspension, you're gonna know why or
is this the NFL that's leaking it out that saying
(07:54):
they our hands are tied. We could we could away
and punish them based on based on the four women.
So it's gonna be like a four six game suspension
and there's nothing we could do about it. I'm not
sure which side is leaking it out? Can I just
give you an opinion and you tell me if you
think I'm I'm wrong? Right? Are indifferent? I think it's
the league. I think it's all the league because I
(08:15):
think that every single part of this has been somewhat
of an orchestrated gosh. I hate to use the word campaign,
but campaign to basically come out and say we want
an indefinite suspension and we want it to be a
year minimum and and and now they realize we're not
(08:37):
gonna get a year suspension, We're gonna look terrible. Baseball
just suspended Trevor Bauer for two years with accusations that
aren't in the same line as as Deshaun Watson. But
it's kind of like they're in the same section of
of the grocery store. I hate to use that analogy,
but it's it's kind of in that same category of
of assault. And obviously Trevor Bauer's accusers much more out front,
(09:00):
much more in the open, and much more devious stuff.
But I'm just I'm sitting here and I'm wondering, is
this the NFL trying to paint this picture up. We're bad,
We're taught, we're gonna suspend it for a year. And
then realizing when they get to this point, Arnie, we
don't have anything. If the NFL is leaking this out
like you said, and they're trying to show everybody that
they don't have anything, um so they know that it's
(09:23):
gonna be a light suspension. They know it's gonna be
like a four game suspension. And if the NFL knows this, Chris,
then you know who else knows this. It's the Cleveland Brown.
Maybe in return why they traded Baker Mayfield when they
traded him and said, okay, let's start putting everything in motion. Now,
Deshaun Watson's only gonna miss in most six games. Will
appeal it, maybe get it down to two to four
(09:44):
or something like that, and we'll just have Jacoby percent
start those other two to four games, and let's move on,
get rid of, get rid of Baker Mayfield. That's not
that's not past the realman ability. That that all that's
going on. I mean, it's it's not like these owners
don't have inside sources to what's going on in these meetings. Now. Yeah,
and then let's let's again let me play complete contrarian
(10:04):
to what I just brought up. Maybe it is DeShawn
Watson's camp who realizes, all right, we sat with this
judges Sue Robinson cat for a couple of days. She
ain't budget, We're hosed. Let's lay out our story so
it doesn't sound like their holes. It sounds like it's
in his favorite no you no matter which side leaked
(10:25):
it out, that he's gonna get a light suspension. Really, yeah,
I thought, why it doesn't sound that way. If if
if you playing Devil's advocate to my own points, so
here you go, Well, that's what someone who's about ready
to get hammered would want you to believe. We showed
them that it was only four people and that's all
that they're looking at. And who's to say that they
(10:46):
realize we're really hosed with these four people because we
don't know which for accusers it is. It might be
some of the most detrimental stuff that's out there. This
could be to Shaun Watson's camp with the old swerve
to basically let everyone know, hey, it wasn't that many,
but we know she's gonna drop the hammer on us.
If you don't want to believe words, you know what
they always say, Chris Action speaks louder than words. So
(11:06):
when the Cleveland Brown stuff and said now is the
time to get rid of Baker Mayfield, they got to
know something and they've got to know it in their favor.
I really believe that there's there's no way they're gonna
go and pull the trigger on that now after waiting
so long without knowing what the punishment is going to be.
They have to have an inside source there, especially when
the difference in the end was what three million dollars
(11:29):
and that three million dollars in the Baker Mayfield was
the money that he gave up. So let's spend the
first part of the show today trying to decipher what
we learned from this to Shaun Watson Leak today, we'll
talk to Jason lacanfora coming up here in just a
bit and listen. I don't know how many times you
sent it to me. You've got me all fired up
(11:51):
about it. We got to talk to Jason about Jimmy
g Jimmy, is he on the move? And am I
a dummy? I mean, look, I'm willing to accept that
sometimes I not very smart. But how is no one
talking about or why isn't there any conversation about the
fact that, I mean, you're you trade for him, You're
responsible for twenty point five million dollars of his deal.
(12:13):
I mean, is this gonna be a situation where they're
gonna split it with with San Francisco? I mean, if
if the Niners cut him, then you're free and clear.
But I don't see the Niners cutting him or and
maybe that's what everyone is waiting for with Jimmy G.
Because whenever I hear this trade for I mean, am
I dumb Marty because he's do that amount of money
in this contract? This? Ye yeah, I'm not sure how
(12:33):
creative accounting can be done. There's always somebody that's like, well,
we could do this and that, and Jimmy G could
push up Canny do like a Bobby Bonia and get
a protect for like the next fifty years. And by
the way, we talked to Seawan Watson, we're getting into
the NFL. We talked Jimmy G. And the first two
tweets we have both want to talk about Zach Wilson. So, um,
(12:54):
I really don't know what to say about that, though
I know I can hear you. I don't know about hurt.
Don't know what to say about that, you know. I
mean literally, when you sent out the first tweet to
promote that we were coming on at nine central, seventh Pacific,
when you sent that tweet out at noon today, Uh,
the very first response was somebody saying, you got to
(13:15):
talk about this Zach Wilson stuff. I don't really know
what to say, y'all. I mean, I really don't the
first time in but I I will say I did
find it fantastic today that his teammates had to speak
out in support of him and did so in a
way that was well so very now right Twitter memes?
(13:40):
Is there any better way in trying to show support
for your quarterback in any allegation than using a strong meme? Game?
So we'll get to Zach Wilson coming up here and
just a bit on Fox Sports Radio, be sure to
catch live editions of The Jason Smith Show with Mike
harmon weekdays at ten pm Eastern, seven pm Pacific. We're
(14:00):
pumped to be joined by Jason Lock and Foorah. Whenever
it comes to being an NFL insider, nobody rocks hard
or the Jason Lock and fa Jason. Good evening, man,
what's going on gentlemen? Happy Monday? Yeah, happy Monday man?
All right, Um, before we get into the fun of
the Zach Wilson story, how does this get out about?
(14:21):
And and are you buying that the NFL is down
to just four accusers and that just doesn't seem to
be who leaks this? How does something like this get
out with a judge involved? It has no sports background
at all? Yeah, I UM, I wouldn't get too caught
up in sort of the reading of tea leaves or
people floating this and people floating that. UM. I don't
(14:46):
think very many people are privy too exactly what Judge
Robinson is thinking at any given moment in time. UM,
But you'd be super naive to think that there isn't
a massive and hasn't been a massive bat all for
the hearts and minds, the pr the optics, UM, the
perception part of this. People in the media have literally
(15:08):
lost their jobs over peddling the talking points for one
side or the other. UM. People have lost credibility, people
have exposed themselves UM because of their willingness to sort
of carry the water or um present things, frame things
(15:29):
at times in the very unsightly manner that those words
delivered to that you know that many followers has an impact.
And we've seen no shortage of people be sort of
willing to cross that line or tiptoe up to that
line and and frame various, um, you know, sort of
(15:50):
various moments in time throughout this long, ugly timeline in
a way that Deshaun Watson's camp in particular would wink
back at. UM. But yeah, and all of a sudden
there seems to be people out there willing to tie
their name to this idea that well, maybe in the
end it's not going to be that bad. And the
way this process works is if Roger Goodell really wants
(16:13):
to put his stamp on it, he still can. And
I would be really surprised if the league lost any
of its zester zeal um for this, for this outcome.
And I don't think the NFL is in a hurry
to have Deshaun Watson talking to the media a couple
of times a week and have him out there and
(16:33):
you know, the national spotlight and playing primetime games are
nationally televised games, while there's so much of this still unknown.
So if I had to battleness and and you're telling me,
is this going to be a stern punishment or is
this going to be something sort of mundane the likes
of which we've seen before, my best guests would be
(16:55):
still skewing that this is going to be some significant discipline.
But I'm telling you that's merely a guess. I'm not
saying I am any inside information on this. Um. I
just would that's just my opinion, you know, Jason, When
I hear the stuff being leaked and it said, now
it's only based on four women. I'm saying to myself, Okay,
they're preparing us to say that it's going to be
(17:17):
a short suspension, that it's gonna be like six games
and maybe they can appeal it down the three or four.
Is that why they traded Baker Mayfield? When they traded
him more, was it just just time to trade him?
I I don't think that there's any um connection in
that whatsoever. I mean, the reality with Baker Mayfield is
this is a legal supply and demand and at his
(17:39):
price point, there was no demand zero. And up until
the point where Jimmy Haslum finally did what I and
others have been saying, he's gonna have to to fassiliate
this trade all along, which is paid more than half
the salary, And up until the point where Baker Mayfield
himself said yeah, and I'll also walk away from a
little bit so that you know, my new teams only
(17:59):
really be paying me five that you know, with the
confluence of all those events, and really it's more on
the player being willing to do that to make it
happen so that he could get there for the started
camp and in his mind put himself in the best
position to beat out Sam Donald, which I think he will,
and be a starting quarterback and maybe relaunch himself as
a free agents there somewhere else next season. So I
(18:22):
wouldn't look at that as attached to Watson UM in
any way, shape or form UM. And I don't think
personally that the NFL is playing Shenanigans here or floating
trial balloons or anything like that UM, because again I'm
I don't, they shouldn't, and I don't believe they do
(18:46):
know exactly what's going through the judge's mind at any
moment in time. To go through this whole process with
the NFL p A and create this new mechanism, you know,
and then to have it tested the first time with
a personal conduct issue UM, this unique and this multilayered,
(19:08):
I can't think that they would be sort of undermining
that UM by being in any ways in last step
or being privy to the inner thoughts of the person
who's supposed to be making an independent ruling on this.
Jason locking for as our guest a couple more minutes
and we'll let him get out of here. Maybe I'm
dumb um. But if you're making a trade for Jimmy
(19:29):
g we're talking mill, you're on the hook for right.
I mean, look, I think this injury and again you
can go back to when the surgery um was reported
in February, and there are people trying to tell you
that it won't affect his trade value, and I'm like, well,
that's just the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in
my life. The man won't be able to fell football
to the other side of July four. He's not going
(19:50):
to be able to lead any team through O t
A S or off season work, and he might not
be necessarily full clear for the start of camp. Yeah,
it's gonna have a real chilling effect on his trade value.
There's not gonna be any until he can pass a physical, certainly,
not if we're talking about a million dollar price point.
And I don't think he's inclined to give up any
(20:10):
salary to facilitate a trade. Um. So, uh, you know,
this one was always going to be latter half of
the summer than otherwise, just I think because of pure
health alone. Um, you know what's he looked like, what
can he do? I do think he'll be Delt at
some point, and it could be a case where the
forty Niners do have to maybe eat a little bit
(20:32):
of money to facilitate that trade. I think what they're
hoping on privately, and you never hate to say this
out loud, but guys are gonna get hurt. People are
going to go down, quarterbacks will get injured, and the
market for him will be based on again supplying demand.
And there could be scenarios where outside factors create a
little bit more of a trade market for him than
(20:54):
currently exists. Yeah. And by the way, I want to
ask about what Tyreek Hill had to say, and I'm
kind of paraphrase, he said that too is going to
be a Hall of Famer or something right there. What
do you think about the whole stuff that, you know,
what he's saying about too and putting a lot of
pressure on him right now? Yeah, you know, look, I
think a little bit of this is is he doth
(21:15):
protest too much? Right? A lot was made in the
fact that this guy left, you know, someone who may
end up being in the conversation as the greatest football
player ever, the greatest quarterback ever to to follow the
money to South Beach to go play with a kid
whose careers on the line and who hasn't yet played
up to his draft building. Now, that's not all on it.
It's a lot of circumstances, but I think Tyreek Kill
(21:37):
wants to be seen as sort of the ultimate teammate
for this guy and the ultimate hype man for this guy.
Um And and some of it maybe him talking himself
into it as well or relitigating his own mythology. But uh,
I get it, you know, I understand where he's coming from.
That everyone wants to to get that sort of confidence
and swag back that he had when he was doing
(21:58):
special stuff at Alabama. And I still think some of
that's there within him. And they built a track team
around them, and that's going to be able to um
capitalize on what he can do right underneath short to intermediate,
accurate passing. And they've got a bunch of guys with
speed to take it to the house um with their
ability to pick up yak. So I think it would
be an interesting offense. I think Miami will be a
(22:19):
better football team. Um. I think Miami may surprise some people.
And I think two will prove to be an effective
NFL quarterback um and with the right pieces around him,
a winning NFL quarterback. I knew you were going to
ask about the doer. Just just to it in fifteen
days until the Dolphins win the Super Bowl. I want
you to know that Justin has that same countdown for
(22:41):
the Chargers. I have that same countdown for the Raiders. Jason,
You're awesome, Enjoy the week. Thanks for the time you
guys do the same. Thank you so much. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Jason Smith Show with
Mike harmon weekdays at ten pm Eastern, seven pm Pacific. Hey,
it's been host to the Fifth Hour with Ben Mallory
along with my trustee sidekick, a guest. GON would mean
a lot to have you join us on our weekly
(23:02):
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Why should you listen? Picture if you will? A world
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(23:25):
podcast or wherever you get your podcast? All right at
sports law Lust on Twitter. He's one of my favorite follows.
Get smart, get learned up people, Dan Lust joins us,
Dan man Um. What do you make of some of
the reporting that's out there on this? To Shaun Watson
latest twist in turn, why is the NFL only focusing
(23:45):
on four people? Uh not five? Not twenty two? Why
has this thing been so pigeonholed? Why are we getting
so many leaks? All good questions and always a pleasure
to join you guys. You know, I don't want to
very lead with what you just said. The NFL is
only looking at four women with respect to these potential
punishment here, So we're not looking at the sixty six
(24:07):
mins suites in seventeen months. We're not looking at the
twenty four individuals at filed lawsuits. And I will note
this for individuals still have active civil cases against the NFL.
We don't know which four the NFL is focusing on
for purpose of the disciplinary hearing. So a lot of
a lot of questions. So there's certainly have been some leaks,
(24:29):
but I still think we're kind of in the dark,
like we don't really know what was going to be argued.
I thought there was gonna be a world where maybe
Watson's camp would let leak their arguments that they were
making about certain NFL owners. So no relatively tight lift
as to how those proceedings went last week. And then
the update I guess from a timing perspective today was
the NFL and the nflp a deadline to submit their
(24:50):
well we'll say they're legal paper submissions, so you know,
no leaks as to what's in those and whatnot. But um, yeah,
I think moving along. I don't know exactly when we're
looking at for hearing, but um, you know there's been
some some legal update. It's not really some like you know,
substantive updates, but you know, the lawyers are hard to
work phillipal hours every day. Yeah, I'm sure. Then when
(25:11):
it comes out to the punishment, is the punishmaker to
go on misconduct or what was illegal? Well, it's misconduct
because the NFL's personal conduct policy doesn't punish people based
on you know, the breaking of the law, right because
Watson has no charges against him. Uh, and being you know,
shoot in civil court doesn't mean necessarily do anything illegal.
You might be held culpable um you know, under a
(25:34):
negligence standard or something like that, but you're not um
or or for some type of intentional tour but it's
not necessarily illegal. So you know, the NFL has a
lot of leeway. And the news came out today as
the NFL standard they're gonna be looking at is something
called the preponderance of the evidence. And that just means
whether they think that Watson committed these acts with these
four women. You know that it was more likely than not.
(25:54):
But if you weigh the evidence, um, you know that
fifty one percent that he did, and it's not you
know that it was illegal, that a crime was committed.
I think it was a report that came out last
week that the NFL did not present any evidence of
violence or forcing someone of coursing someone. Um. But is
it the NFL think that the optic optics are bad
enough on those four cases? Uh? And at a level
(26:15):
of misconics occurred that was beyond the preponderance of the
that's what we're looking I know, crime or anything like that,
but just just you know, misconduct. Right as they say,
beauties in the eye of the beholder. For me, I've
I've I've I read a great Dan's got a great piece.
If you really want to get learned up about the
whole policy UH Roger Goodell's acknowledgement UH in previous decisions
(26:40):
and how could effect this. I encourage you to check
out contract conduct the Detrimental dot Com. In fact, I'll
link up the story on my Twitter feed. But bottom
line this for me, Dan, what do you see happening?
How do you see this playing out? Does the NFL
get its desired penalty in the end? So you guys
(27:01):
know conditions to be lawyer. I'm somewhat of a gambler here,
and I think I like to talk about things again.
You know, I think if you had to set the
line before the hearing, I think you probably said it
like fourteen and a half games, right, because the NFL
wanted a year, and then there was some talk about
this indefinite suspension, which I don't I don't think it's happening.
(27:21):
I think that was the NFL just setting the bar
as high as they could and then trying to get
a number that was a year. So you know, again,
you gotta read read the cues here. The two grand
juries in Texas. Didn't think there was enough to get
probable cause to get criminal charges, and that's a much
lower standard than propondents of the offence. So that's point
one for the under right, point two for the under.
(27:43):
I don't know the fact that the Browns just traded
Baker Mayfield right, that that tells you that they think, um,
that Watson probably going to be available. I don't think
they have a season planned with your Kobe Bersett as
the start of the team. I think they're they're feeling
pretty confident. And the number three, the fact that there
was only four women that are you know, that are
being looked at here with the NFL would spect the allegations.
(28:04):
It's not not twenty four, it's not sixty six. And
with more women you have more bites at the apple.
So I think if you're just reading that, um, I'm
inclined to take the under and I've been happy to
be wrong. But that's my sense that it's going to
be under fourteen and a half. That's what all go. Oh,
I I totally agree with you there. I want to
get over to Brittany Grinder. What's going to happen from here?
How long is it gonna take for her to get
(28:24):
a punishment, uh in Russia, and then when does the
process start to getting her back in the US. And
do you think it's going to be you know, within
like a month or this to going to drag on
for years? Well, this is the one. I can't give
you it over under right, This is kind of out
of everyone's hands, right. I can tell you how long
a case normally takes and give you a pretty good
(28:44):
guess on the Watson determination, But um, grinder is kind
of unprecedent, right, and we're in weird geopolitical times where
this you could tell me a number that involves years
and I really wouldn't shock me. Um. But the fact
that Brenner took a grinder, took a plea of guilty,
I will say that people were like, oh, that means
that she get it. That means that you know it's over.
It's just going to be up the sentence thing. The
(29:04):
way these prisoner exchanges work, it usually helps to plead
guilty and then and then it's just a matter of
trying to make some swap. But you know, I, you know,
obviously they got ratches all the way up to Biden
in the White House. So that's the highest levels. And
that's good, dudes for timing. But you know it's going
to be up to the Russian government as to whether
they want to cooperate and how much they're gonna want
to exchange for you know, some type of trade. So
(29:26):
I don't think there's a time frame though, and right there,
and not not to get political, it may not just
be for her. They might try to bring other Americans home, Mike,
you're about Paul was a Whalen and stuff like that
that I mean, she might not be the only American
they're trying to get home too well. And then the
other side, right, they're gonna try to be getting some
some Russians back to you know, they're real bad guys. Right,
(29:48):
there's no there's no time frame on it. Any anyone
that says that with some reliability. I mean, these things
sometimes take years, which is tragic. And I know, you know,
the w b A was honoring pretty grinded this past
week to keep the attention on it. But the detension
has been had got to Biden at this point. Now
it's time for the White House to act and try
to bring her back home. But you know, we everyone
did their part to get the issue to the White House,
and now you know it's their job to try to
(30:08):
get a deal done. Dan lust is our guest at
Sports law Less on Twitter. It's been a rough go
this last couple of months for the p g A tour.
In your opinion, how much rough for does it get
today with the investigation for antitrust violations. It's pretty bad.
You know. Commissioner Monahan had a comment, you know, he says,
if it's up to money, you know, the p g
(30:29):
A can't compete and we have other ways to compete.
So that that statement kind of struck me as on
I'm like, how are you going to compete if you're
not competing with money, because that then that makes it
seem like you might have some type of anti competitive
practices because the world of you know, the d o J,
you're looking for type some type of anti competitive activity
in a free market system you call for should be
going to the highest bidder. That's that's what you know.
(30:50):
Monopolies are supposed to avoid right competition. So if you're
competing for money, that's great, the d o J is
not gonna get involved. But if you have some type
of anti competitive practices that maybe like I don't know
that that scorned the the golfers that go over to live.
The DJ is gonna, it's gonna look at this. So
those comments were June twenty two by Commissioner Monahan, and
the announcement of this DUJ investigation comes, you know, within
(31:12):
less than a month. So I think they're certainly looking
at all their activities. But the comments by the commissioner
I think probably played some type of a role in this, right,
And but the PJA had to respond, so you know,
the d G d o J can look at all
they want. As of now, there's been no violations and
no offenses. But you know the question, right, the PGA happy, No,
this is a terrible optics. They're losing golfers and now
(31:34):
the d o J is investigating him. That's a lose
loose scenario if there is one, Well, how could you pass?
Did you see that playing that five building? Did you
see that? Or what? Dad? Yeah? And and beyond that, right,
I saw some stad like the barbersoul whatever this was
the PJ event. I think four golfers earned above like
what the minimum was that the live golfers are earning? Like,
(31:55):
so the top four golfers earned I think over a
hundred thousand, and the minimum pay us to live towards
like a hundred thousand. So I don't know how p
G E can compete right now. They really got to
get creative and creative in a way that doesn't run
a foul of the Department of Justice. Hey, a final
thought before we let you get out of here, Dan,
You've been following and monitoring, obviously the debate about does
(32:17):
the poll of the conduct policy also apply to owners?
And Roger Goodell has said to everyone. But yet Dan Snyder,
even though he was fine ten million dollars right and
lost allegedly some of his authority, it seems like he
can't stay out of trouble. What what's the latest with
the Washington commanders and whether or not he's going to
have to go testify? Yeah, so Snyder is offered to
(32:38):
testify virtually. We'll see if it's going to happen. I
don't think Congress has made a decision yet. I mean,
they let Goodell testifire virtually, so you know, I would
think they'd allow it. Um. But but I will say this,
and these two conversations are related to one another. Right,
what did Deshaun Watson do. DeShawn Watson's accused of sexual
mssconduct and he settled twenty four cases. Some reports are
(32:58):
that that number was in the low billions. Right, what
did Dan Syder do? Dan Tider? There's probably two levels
of the allegation. One is kind of, you know, lack
of institutional control. That's kind of maybe resemble what the
Penn State looked at with Joe paternal what all these
different issues going on at the Washington Commander's hqu at
some point that's got to fall in the owner. The
other part of the allegation, and to this personal comment
(33:20):
policy point, he was accused himself of sexual harassment sexual
assault with a former team employee and allegedly paid her
one point six million dollars to make that case go away.
So you know they're looking at a really high level.
Obviously Watson involves a lot more accusers, but it's settling
cases about sexual assault, sexual misconduct. And you know, Watson's
(33:42):
being pursued for a one year suspension and Dan Tider
got find ten million dollars, which to him is a
drop in the bucket. Um, So I think the NFL
has got to be careful here the present. They fit
with Watson. It's a what they get dispended for a year.
You got to think that people are gonna be calling
for Snyder to be publicly reprimanded with a formal year
suspension something right or some form of the games. But
(34:05):
you know, players and owners are supposed to be held
to this personal comment policy, and by the optics, it
looks like only the players are. I mean, that's that's
at least one favor reading of this unreal good man, Dan,
We always appreciate your time, great insight. Is always an
hope we get a chance to talk again soon. Always
a pleasure, guys, anytime nice then
Thanks for listening to the best of The Jason Smith
Show with My Carmen podcast. Be sure to catch us
live every week night from ten pm to two a m.
Eastern seven to eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Jason Smith Show with
Mike Harmon at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream
us live every night on the I Heart Radio app
by searching f s R. This is the best of
(00:22):
the Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon on Fox Sports Radio.
Let's go stinking, Ja, Let's go big, let us let's
roll on a Monday night. I'm fired up. How are
you spend a minute since we talked? Right? Been a
busy day today, twenty four hours ago? Five Actually what
(00:45):
am I saying? It would be twenty five hours ago
last week talk? You had a busy day to day?
What the hell did you do? I just slept all day,
That's what I was thinking. Beauty, sleep in there. I'll
tell you what he did. And Justin can attest to this.
You blew me up all day with with screenshots of tweets.
What do you do today, Arnie? I guys sent Plank
(01:05):
and Justin about five thousand things. Maybe two of them
will get to talk about today. Geez, you are over prepper.
What time did he start bugging you tie shirt to
try to get connected? Like noon? I was talking to
him last week, you guys. But listen, it's why you're
the King's why you're the greatest man. It's number one
(01:26):
in Fox Sports Radio. That's right, That's right. It only
took um let's see everyone being out or on vacation
or sick or unavailable for both you and I to
get this opportunity tonight. But I'm pumped, man. And did
you see what Justin hooked up for us guest wise tonight? No,
I did not we get to talk to job. Of
course you didn't. You were too busy sitting at screenshot
(01:48):
about Jimmy Garofolo. Um, we're gonna chat with Jason Lackin
for and what I think it's fair to say is
his regular time slot here with Jason and Mike on
Fox Sports Radio. And then in our number two we're
gonna talk to Dan lust I. I'm a big fan
of Dan lust He is somebody that I feel like
as sports fans we need and and and should listen
(02:09):
to because I feel like Artie, you have to be
You've got to be uh an economist, you have to
be a salary person and anymore in sports, you gotta
have a legal team. So we've got our legal team
headlined by Dan Lust coming up. And it's always we
like to carry over our passion for Twitter dot com
here on a Monday night. If you know what you
(02:30):
want to talk about, you want to get involved in
the show, hit us up on Twitter. That's at Stinking
Genius one. That's Artie um at Plank Show. And everybody
should be following us at Fox Sports Radio. All right,
you want to start something Shaun Watson stuff or let's
do it. You know, I thought we're gonna get a
little bit of news on that and we I thought
we're gonna get some weak stuff earlier today. From that,
I felt like we did. So you tell me whether
(02:54):
or not you felt like this was or was not
a big deal. The report that Josina Anderson and and
then I guess you could depends on which order you
want to go. If you want to give Josina the credit.
She she had it on my timeline first, and I
saw Mike Florio got a little bit in depth. The
report is now that the league's case against the Shawn
(03:16):
Watson centers on only four women, and that a fifth
woman was not even interviewed by the league. So to
get it, and again, this is a big story because
well a, if I try to put chat Homegrin in
the Summer League Hall of Fame right now, or if
I get too carried away with the Mets game, my distraction,
I'm just gonna be so distracted from this show. So
(03:37):
let's focus on this legal issue. Hid HiT's the three
you take that Orlando Summer League team, Arnie, I'm so perplexed,
which is why I think we need a good one
to punch of an NFL insider and a legal guy.
How in the world can you have twenty two plus
cases allegations maybe is the better way to put it.
(04:00):
Then went to twenty four and then the New York
Post had its selational piece or maybe it was The Times.
I apologize that said as many as sixty six were involved,
and they had some They had some pretty heavy details
in some of those. Arnie, How in the world can
it go from having that many allegations to yeah, we're
gonna focus on five. You know what, make that four?
That's the first part of this, where did this disconnect happen?
(04:23):
Where you went from what appeared to be a bevy
of accusers too. Now in the case of what the
NFL is trying to show that hey, he violated our
conduct policy, they're only focusing on on four women again
for too many? Right, let's me one is too many.
But this just seems odd, does it not? Well? You know,
because I'm not sure exactly why you find this out.
(04:45):
I think I said this to you a while ago
that when the other twenty or whatever it was that
was settled, I said, part of the settlement was you're
not allowed to speak to anybody, the NFL, police, investigators,
whatever it's settled, it's done. Um, you can no longer
would say anything about it. So I didn't think that
the NFL was gonna be able to talk to those
women anyway, So that left I felt like six. I
(05:07):
guess we thought five now down the fourth, so joy
a difference of one. Uh the way. Thing I don't
understand is I thought he was still gonna be punished
based on the other twenty women, whether it was criminal
or not, whether it was just conduct detrimental to the league.
And I doesn't doesn't look that way right now, does it?
Chris question, fair fair point on on Urine Arnie span
(05:27):
your fair point on on on your end. But what
the hell was the NFL doing in the fifteen months
prior to the agreements that were made three weeks ago
between the Shawn Watson and these women. I was thinking
about that also, And if I was the women, I
don't think I would have spoke to the NFL. Even
before I had an attorney, I wasn't gonna speak to
the NFL. And once I got an attorney, what do
you think my attorney said, you don't speak to anybody,
(05:50):
including the NFL. So when exactly was the NFL go
to speak to these other women anyway? I again, you
don't have to speak to the other twenty women to
know that maybe something you know, miss you know it's appropriate. Yeah,
something was wrong here and that should be part of
your punishment. But it doesn't look like that's gonna be
(06:11):
like that. And now it's gonna be based, as you said,
on the four women that are left, which makes me
think this is gonna be like maybe a four to
six games suspension or something like that. So then here's
the other part of it because I don't disagree with you.
Here's the other part of it. Why is this and
how is this information getting out? Judge Sue Robinson, from
(06:31):
everything we know, has never been involved with any case
involving athletics, right, She's never worked with the NFL before,
she's never worked with the NBA, She's never worked in
athletics at all. So why is this out? How did
this get out? How did we truly get this story?
(06:51):
And I some might say really good reporting. Really, I
mean it's almost as if and I'm not trying to
dismiss anything that Josina our Pro Football Talk hat don't
take it that way, but it almost appears something like
this is purposefully leaked in an Again, we got Jason
Latin for I can We're gonna ask him coming up
in just a bit, but in a in a case
(07:13):
that has been so that's the best way to put this.
Arnie mishandled. It seems from the start by the NFL's
investigators by maybe maybe even I mean DeShawn Watson's attorney
sticks his foot in his mouth at least once every
other wing. Same thing for Tony Buzzby and the attorney
for the accusers It's almost as if everyone can't get
(07:33):
out of their own way in this case period. But
who how is this hitting out? Yeah? But on which
side leaked it? I mean, was it the Shaun? Was
it Deshaun Watson's legal team that leaked it to say, hey, um,
they really don't have a case to suspend them for
the entire year. So when they come back with a
four or six games suspension, you're gonna know why or
is this the NFL that's leaking it out that saying
(07:54):
they our hands are tied. We could we could away
and punish them based on based on the four women.
So it's gonna be like a four six game suspension
and there's nothing we could do about it. I'm not
sure which side is leaking it out? Can I just
give you an opinion and you tell me if you
think I'm I'm wrong? Right? Are indifferent? I think it's
the league. I think it's all the league because I
(08:15):
think that every single part of this has been somewhat
of an orchestrated gosh. I hate to use the word campaign,
but campaign to basically come out and say we want
an indefinite suspension and we want it to be a
year minimum and and and now they realize we're not
(08:37):
gonna get a year suspension, We're gonna look terrible. Baseball
just suspended Trevor Bauer for two years with accusations that
aren't in the same line as as Deshaun Watson. But
it's kind of like they're in the same section of
of the grocery store. I hate to use that analogy,
but it's it's kind of in that same category of
of assault. And obviously Trevor Bauer's accusers much more out front,
(09:00):
much more in the open, and much more devious stuff.
But I'm just I'm sitting here and I'm wondering, is
this the NFL trying to paint this picture up. We're bad,
We're taught, we're gonna suspend it for a year. And
then realizing when they get to this point, Arnie, we
don't have anything. If the NFL is leaking this out
like you said, and they're trying to show everybody that
they don't have anything, um so they know that it's
(09:23):
gonna be a light suspension. They know it's gonna be
like a four game suspension. And if the NFL knows this, Chris,
then you know who else knows this. It's the Cleveland Brown.
Maybe in return why they traded Baker Mayfield when they
traded him and said, okay, let's start putting everything in motion. Now,
Deshaun Watson's only gonna miss in most six games. Will
appeal it, maybe get it down to two to four
(09:44):
or something like that, and we'll just have Jacoby percent
start those other two to four games, and let's move on,
get rid of, get rid of Baker Mayfield. That's not
that's not past the realman ability. That that all that's
going on. I mean, it's it's not like these owners
don't have inside sources to what's going on in these meetings. Now. Yeah,
and then let's let's again let me play complete contrarian
(10:04):
to what I just brought up. Maybe it is DeShawn
Watson's camp who realizes, all right, we sat with this
judges Sue Robinson cat for a couple of days. She
ain't budget, We're hosed. Let's lay out our story so
it doesn't sound like their holes. It sounds like it's
in his favorite no you no matter which side leaked
(10:25):
it out, that he's gonna get a light suspension. Really, yeah,
I thought, why it doesn't sound that way. If if
if you playing Devil's advocate to my own points, so
here you go, Well, that's what someone who's about ready
to get hammered would want you to believe. We showed
them that it was only four people and that's all
that they're looking at. And who's to say that they
(10:46):
realize we're really hosed with these four people because we
don't know which for accusers it is. It might be
some of the most detrimental stuff that's out there. This
could be to Shaun Watson's camp with the old swerve
to basically let everyone know, hey, it wasn't that many,
but we know she's gonna drop the hammer on us.
If you don't want to believe words, you know what
they always say, Chris Action speaks louder than words. So
(11:06):
when the Cleveland Brown stuff and said now is the
time to get rid of Baker Mayfield, they got to
know something and they've got to know it in their favor.
I really believe that there's there's no way they're gonna
go and pull the trigger on that now after waiting
so long without knowing what the punishment is going to be.
They have to have an inside source there, especially when
the difference in the end was what three million dollars
(11:29):
and that three million dollars in the Baker Mayfield was
the money that he gave up. So let's spend the
first part of the show today trying to decipher what
we learned from this to Shaun Watson Leak today, we'll
talk to Jason lacanfora coming up here in just a
bit and listen. I don't know how many times you
sent it to me. You've got me all fired up
(11:51):
about it. We got to talk to Jason about Jimmy
g Jimmy, is he on the move? And am I
a dummy? I mean, look, I'm willing to accept that
sometimes I not very smart. But how is no one
talking about or why isn't there any conversation about the
fact that, I mean, you're you trade for him, You're
responsible for twenty point five million dollars of his deal.
(12:13):
I mean, is this gonna be a situation where they're
gonna split it with with San Francisco? I mean, if
if the Niners cut him, then you're free and clear.
But I don't see the Niners cutting him or and
maybe that's what everyone is waiting for with Jimmy G.
Because whenever I hear this trade for I mean, am
I dumb Marty because he's do that amount of money
in this contract? This? Ye yeah, I'm not sure how
(12:33):
creative accounting can be done. There's always somebody that's like, well,
we could do this and that, and Jimmy G could
push up Canny do like a Bobby Bonia and get
a protect for like the next fifty years. And by
the way, we talked to Seawan Watson, we're getting into
the NFL. We talked Jimmy G. And the first two
tweets we have both want to talk about Zach Wilson. So, um,
(12:54):
I really don't know what to say about that, though
I know I can hear you. I don't know about hurt.
Don't know what to say about that, you know. I
mean literally, when you sent out the first tweet to
promote that we were coming on at nine central, seventh Pacific,
when you sent that tweet out at noon today, Uh,
the very first response was somebody saying, you got to
(13:15):
talk about this Zach Wilson stuff. I don't really know
what to say, y'all. I mean, I really don't the
first time in but I I will say I did
find it fantastic today that his teammates had to speak
out in support of him and did so in a
way that was well so very now right Twitter memes?
(13:40):
Is there any better way in trying to show support
for your quarterback in any allegation than using a strong meme? Game?
So we'll get to Zach Wilson coming up here and
just a bit on Fox Sports Radio, be sure to
catch live editions of The Jason Smith Show with Mike
harmon weekdays at ten pm Eastern, seven pm Pacific. We're
(14:00):
pumped to be joined by Jason Lock and Foorah. Whenever
it comes to being an NFL insider, nobody rocks hard
or the Jason Lock and fa Jason. Good evening, man,
what's going on gentlemen? Happy Monday? Yeah, happy Monday man?
All right, Um, before we get into the fun of
the Zach Wilson story, how does this get out about?
(14:21):
And and are you buying that the NFL is down
to just four accusers and that just doesn't seem to
be who leaks this? How does something like this get
out with a judge involved? It has no sports background
at all? Yeah, I UM, I wouldn't get too caught
up in sort of the reading of tea leaves or
people floating this and people floating that. UM. I don't
(14:46):
think very many people are privy too exactly what Judge
Robinson is thinking at any given moment in time. UM,
But you'd be super naive to think that there isn't
a massive and hasn't been a massive bat all for
the hearts and minds, the pr the optics, UM, the
perception part of this. People in the media have literally
(15:08):
lost their jobs over peddling the talking points for one
side or the other. UM. People have lost credibility, people
have exposed themselves UM because of their willingness to sort
of carry the water or um present things, frame things
(15:29):
at times in the very unsightly manner that those words
delivered to that you know that many followers has an impact.
And we've seen no shortage of people be sort of
willing to cross that line or tiptoe up to that
line and and frame various, um, you know, sort of
(15:50):
various moments in time throughout this long, ugly timeline in
a way that Deshaun Watson's camp in particular would wink
back at. UM. But yeah, and all of a sudden
there seems to be people out there willing to tie
their name to this idea that well, maybe in the
end it's not going to be that bad. And the
way this process works is if Roger Goodell really wants
(16:13):
to put his stamp on it, he still can. And
I would be really surprised if the league lost any
of its zester zeal um for this, for this outcome.
And I don't think the NFL is in a hurry
to have Deshaun Watson talking to the media a couple
of times a week and have him out there and
(16:33):
you know, the national spotlight and playing primetime games are
nationally televised games, while there's so much of this still unknown.
So if I had to battleness and and you're telling me,
is this going to be a stern punishment or is
this going to be something sort of mundane the likes
of which we've seen before, my best guests would be
(16:55):
still skewing that this is going to be some significant discipline.
But I'm telling you that's merely a guess. I'm not
saying I am any inside information on this. Um. I
just would that's just my opinion, you know, Jason, When
I hear the stuff being leaked and it said, now
it's only based on four women. I'm saying to myself, Okay,
they're preparing us to say that it's going to be
(17:17):
a short suspension, that it's gonna be like six games
and maybe they can appeal it down the three or four.
Is that why they traded Baker Mayfield? When they traded
him more, was it just just time to trade him?
I I don't think that there's any um connection in
that whatsoever. I mean, the reality with Baker Mayfield is
this is a legal supply and demand and at his
(17:39):
price point, there was no demand zero. And up until
the point where Jimmy Haslum finally did what I and
others have been saying, he's gonna have to to fassiliate
this trade all along, which is paid more than half
the salary, And up until the point where Baker Mayfield
himself said yeah, and I'll also walk away from a
little bit so that you know, my new teams only
(17:59):
really be paying me five that you know, with the
confluence of all those events, and really it's more on
the player being willing to do that to make it
happen so that he could get there for the started
camp and in his mind put himself in the best
position to beat out Sam Donald, which I think he will,
and be a starting quarterback and maybe relaunch himself as
a free agents there somewhere else next season. So I
(18:22):
wouldn't look at that as attached to Watson UM in
any way, shape or form UM. And I don't think
personally that the NFL is playing Shenanigans here or floating
trial balloons or anything like that UM, because again I'm
I don't, they shouldn't, and I don't believe they do
(18:46):
know exactly what's going through the judge's mind at any
moment in time. To go through this whole process with
the NFL p A and create this new mechanism, you know,
and then to have it tested the first time with
a personal conduct issue UM, this unique and this multilayered,
(19:08):
I can't think that they would be sort of undermining
that UM by being in any ways in last step
or being privy to the inner thoughts of the person
who's supposed to be making an independent ruling on this.
Jason locking for as our guest a couple more minutes
and we'll let him get out of here. Maybe I'm
dumb um. But if you're making a trade for Jimmy
(19:29):
g we're talking mill, you're on the hook for right.
I mean, look, I think this injury and again you
can go back to when the surgery um was reported
in February, and there are people trying to tell you
that it won't affect his trade value, and I'm like, well,
that's just the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in
my life. The man won't be able to fell football
to the other side of July four. He's not going
(19:50):
to be able to lead any team through O t
A S or off season work, and he might not
be necessarily full clear for the start of camp. Yeah,
it's gonna have a real chilling effect on his trade value.
There's not gonna be any until he can pass a physical, certainly,
not if we're talking about a million dollar price point.
And I don't think he's inclined to give up any
(20:10):
salary to facilitate a trade. Um. So, uh, you know,
this one was always going to be latter half of
the summer than otherwise, just I think because of pure
health alone. Um, you know what's he looked like, what
can he do? I do think he'll be Delt at
some point, and it could be a case where the
forty Niners do have to maybe eat a little bit
(20:32):
of money to facilitate that trade. I think what they're
hoping on privately, and you never hate to say this
out loud, but guys are gonna get hurt. People are
going to go down, quarterbacks will get injured, and the
market for him will be based on again supplying demand.
And there could be scenarios where outside factors create a
little bit more of a trade market for him than
(20:54):
currently exists. Yeah. And by the way, I want to
ask about what Tyreek Hill had to say, and I'm
kind of paraphrase, he said that too is going to
be a Hall of Famer or something right there. What
do you think about the whole stuff that, you know,
what he's saying about too and putting a lot of
pressure on him right now? Yeah, you know, look, I
think a little bit of this is is he doth
(21:15):
protest too much? Right? A lot was made in the
fact that this guy left, you know, someone who may
end up being in the conversation as the greatest football
player ever, the greatest quarterback ever to to follow the
money to South Beach to go play with a kid
whose careers on the line and who hasn't yet played
up to his draft building. Now, that's not all on it.
It's a lot of circumstances, but I think Tyreek Kill
(21:37):
wants to be seen as sort of the ultimate teammate
for this guy and the ultimate hype man for this guy.
Um And and some of it maybe him talking himself
into it as well or relitigating his own mythology. But uh,
I get it, you know, I understand where he's coming from.
That everyone wants to to get that sort of confidence
and swag back that he had when he was doing
(21:58):
special stuff at Alabama. And I still think some of
that's there within him. And they built a track team
around them, and that's going to be able to um
capitalize on what he can do right underneath short to intermediate,
accurate passing. And they've got a bunch of guys with
speed to take it to the house um with their
ability to pick up yak. So I think it would
be an interesting offense. I think Miami will be a
(22:19):
better football team. Um. I think Miami may surprise some people.
And I think two will prove to be an effective
NFL quarterback um and with the right pieces around him,
a winning NFL quarterback. I knew you were going to
ask about the doer. Just just to it in fifteen
days until the Dolphins win the Super Bowl. I want
you to know that Justin has that same countdown for
(22:41):
the Chargers. I have that same countdown for the Raiders. Jason,
You're awesome, Enjoy the week. Thanks for the time you
guys do the same. Thank you so much. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Jason Smith Show with
Mike harmon weekdays at ten pm Eastern, seven pm Pacific. Hey,
it's been host to the Fifth Hour with Ben Mallory
along with my trustee sidekick, a guest. GON would mean
a lot to have you join us on our weekly
(23:02):
auditory journey. You're asking one in God's name is the
Fifth Hour? I'll tell you it's a spin off of
that Ben Maller show. Cold Hit overnights on FS are
Why should you listen? Picture if you will? A world
will we chat with captains of industry in media, sports
and more. Every week explorer some amazing facts about a
human nature and more. Let's sten to the Fifth Hour
with Ben mallow on the I Heart Radio app Apple
(23:25):
podcast or wherever you get your podcast? All right at
sports law Lust on Twitter. He's one of my favorite follows.
Get smart, get learned up people, Dan Lust joins us,
Dan man Um. What do you make of some of
the reporting that's out there on this? To Shaun Watson
latest twist in turn, why is the NFL only focusing
(23:45):
on four people? Uh not five? Not twenty two? Why
has this thing been so pigeonholed? Why are we getting
so many leaks? All good questions and always a pleasure
to join you guys. You know, I don't want to
very lead with what you just said. The NFL is
only looking at four women with respect to these potential
punishment here, So we're not looking at the sixty six
(24:07):
mins suites in seventeen months. We're not looking at the
twenty four individuals at filed lawsuits. And I will note
this for individuals still have active civil cases against the NFL.
We don't know which four the NFL is focusing on
for purpose of the disciplinary hearing. So a lot of
a lot of questions. So there's certainly have been some leaks,
(24:29):
but I still think we're kind of in the dark,
like we don't really know what was going to be argued.
I thought there was gonna be a world where maybe
Watson's camp would let leak their arguments that they were
making about certain NFL owners. So no relatively tight lift
as to how those proceedings went last week. And then
the update I guess from a timing perspective today was
the NFL and the nflp a deadline to submit their
(24:50):
well we'll say they're legal paper submissions, so you know,
no leaks as to what's in those and whatnot. But um, yeah,
I think moving along. I don't know exactly when we're
looking at for hearing, but um, you know there's been
some some legal update. It's not really some like you know,
substantive updates, but you know, the lawyers are hard to
work phillipal hours every day. Yeah, I'm sure. Then when
(25:11):
it comes out to the punishment, is the punishmaker to
go on misconduct or what was illegal? Well, it's misconduct
because the NFL's personal conduct policy doesn't punish people based
on you know, the breaking of the law, right because
Watson has no charges against him. Uh, and being you know,
shoot in civil court doesn't mean necessarily do anything illegal.
You might be held culpable um you know, under a
(25:34):
negligence standard or something like that, but you're not um
or or for some type of intentional tour but it's
not necessarily illegal. So you know, the NFL has a
lot of leeway. And the news came out today as
the NFL standard they're gonna be looking at is something
called the preponderance of the evidence. And that just means
whether they think that Watson committed these acts with these
four women. You know that it was more likely than not.
(25:54):
But if you weigh the evidence, um, you know that
fifty one percent that he did, and it's not you
know that it was illegal, that a crime was committed.
I think it was a report that came out last
week that the NFL did not present any evidence of
violence or forcing someone of coursing someone. Um. But is
it the NFL think that the optic optics are bad
enough on those four cases? Uh? And at a level
(26:15):
of misconics occurred that was beyond the preponderance of the
that's what we're looking I know, crime or anything like that,
but just just you know, misconduct. Right as they say,
beauties in the eye of the beholder. For me, I've
I've I've I read a great Dan's got a great piece.
If you really want to get learned up about the
whole policy UH Roger Goodell's acknowledgement UH in previous decisions
(26:40):
and how could effect this. I encourage you to check
out contract conduct the Detrimental dot Com. In fact, I'll
link up the story on my Twitter feed. But bottom
line this for me, Dan, what do you see happening?
How do you see this playing out? Does the NFL
get its desired penalty in the end? So you guys
(27:01):
know conditions to be lawyer. I'm somewhat of a gambler here,
and I think I like to talk about things again.
You know, I think if you had to set the
line before the hearing, I think you probably said it
like fourteen and a half games, right, because the NFL
wanted a year, and then there was some talk about
this indefinite suspension, which I don't I don't think it's happening.
(27:21):
I think that was the NFL just setting the bar
as high as they could and then trying to get
a number that was a year. So you know, again,
you gotta read read the cues here. The two grand
juries in Texas. Didn't think there was enough to get
probable cause to get criminal charges, and that's a much
lower standard than propondents of the offence. So that's point
one for the under right, point two for the under.
(27:43):
I don't know the fact that the Browns just traded
Baker Mayfield right, that that tells you that they think, um,
that Watson probably going to be available. I don't think
they have a season planned with your Kobe Bersett as
the start of the team. I think they're they're feeling
pretty confident. And the number three, the fact that there
was only four women that are you know, that are
being looked at here with the NFL would spect the allegations.
(28:04):
It's not not twenty four, it's not sixty six. And
with more women you have more bites at the apple.
So I think if you're just reading that, um, I'm
inclined to take the under and I've been happy to
be wrong. But that's my sense that it's going to
be under fourteen and a half. That's what all go. Oh,
I I totally agree with you there. I want to
get over to Brittany Grinder. What's going to happen from here?
How long is it gonna take for her to get
(28:24):
a punishment, uh in Russia, and then when does the
process start to getting her back in the US. And
do you think it's going to be you know, within
like a month or this to going to drag on
for years? Well, this is the one. I can't give
you it over under right, This is kind of out
of everyone's hands, right. I can tell you how long
a case normally takes and give you a pretty good
(28:44):
guess on the Watson determination, But um, grinder is kind
of unprecedent, right, and we're in weird geopolitical times where
this you could tell me a number that involves years
and I really wouldn't shock me. Um. But the fact
that Brenner took a grinder, took a plea of guilty,
I will say that people were like, oh, that means
that she get it. That means that you know it's over.
It's just going to be up the sentence thing. The
(29:04):
way these prisoner exchanges work, it usually helps to plead
guilty and then and then it's just a matter of
trying to make some swap. But you know, I, you know,
obviously they got ratches all the way up to Biden
in the White House. So that's the highest levels. And
that's good, dudes for timing. But you know it's going
to be up to the Russian government as to whether
they want to cooperate and how much they're gonna want
to exchange for you know, some type of trade. So
(29:26):
I don't think there's a time frame though, and right there,
and not not to get political, it may not just
be for her. They might try to bring other Americans home, Mike,
you're about Paul was a Whalen and stuff like that
that I mean, she might not be the only American
they're trying to get home too well. And then the
other side, right, they're gonna try to be getting some
some Russians back to you know, they're real bad guys. Right,
(29:48):
there's no there's no time frame on it. Any anyone
that says that with some reliability. I mean, these things
sometimes take years, which is tragic. And I know, you know,
the w b A was honoring pretty grinded this past
week to keep the attention on it. But the detension
has been had got to Biden at this point. Now
it's time for the White House to act and try
to bring her back home. But you know, we everyone
did their part to get the issue to the White House,
and now you know it's their job to try to
(30:08):
get a deal done. Dan lust is our guest at
Sports law Less on Twitter. It's been a rough go
this last couple of months for the p g A tour.
In your opinion, how much rough for does it get
today with the investigation for antitrust violations. It's pretty bad.
You know. Commissioner Monahan had a comment, you know, he says,
if it's up to money, you know, the p g
(30:29):
A can't compete and we have other ways to compete.
So that that statement kind of struck me as on
I'm like, how are you going to compete if you're
not competing with money, because that then that makes it
seem like you might have some type of anti competitive
practices because the world of you know, the d o J,
you're looking for type some type of anti competitive activity
in a free market system you call for should be
going to the highest bidder. That's that's what you know.
(30:50):
Monopolies are supposed to avoid right competition. So if you're
competing for money, that's great, the d o J is
not gonna get involved. But if you have some type
of anti competitive practices that maybe like I don't know
that that scorned the the golfers that go over to live.
The DJ is gonna, it's gonna look at this. So
those comments were June twenty two by Commissioner Monahan, and
the announcement of this DUJ investigation comes, you know, within
(31:12):
less than a month. So I think they're certainly looking
at all their activities. But the comments by the commissioner
I think probably played some type of a role in this, right,
And but the PJA had to respond, so you know,
the d G d o J can look at all
they want. As of now, there's been no violations and
no offenses. But you know the question, right, the PGA happy, No,
this is a terrible optics. They're losing golfers and now
(31:34):
the d o J is investigating him. That's a lose
loose scenario if there is one, Well, how could you pass?
Did you see that playing that five building? Did you
see that? Or what? Dad? Yeah? And and beyond that, right,
I saw some stad like the barbersoul whatever this was
the PJ event. I think four golfers earned above like
what the minimum was that the live golfers are earning? Like,
(31:55):
so the top four golfers earned I think over a
hundred thousand, and the minimum pay us to live towards
like a hundred thousand. So I don't know how p
G E can compete right now. They really got to
get creative and creative in a way that doesn't run
a foul of the Department of Justice. Hey, a final
thought before we let you get out of here, Dan,
You've been following and monitoring, obviously the debate about does
(32:17):
the poll of the conduct policy also apply to owners?
And Roger Goodell has said to everyone. But yet Dan Snyder,
even though he was fine ten million dollars right and
lost allegedly some of his authority, it seems like he
can't stay out of trouble. What what's the latest with
the Washington commanders and whether or not he's going to
have to go testify? Yeah, so Snyder is offered to
(32:38):
testify virtually. We'll see if it's going to happen. I
don't think Congress has made a decision yet. I mean,
they let Goodell testifire virtually, so you know, I would
think they'd allow it. Um. But but I will say this,
and these two conversations are related to one another. Right,
what did Deshaun Watson do. DeShawn Watson's accused of sexual
mssconduct and he settled twenty four cases. Some reports are
(32:58):
that that number was in the low billions. Right, what
did Dan Syder do? Dan Tider? There's probably two levels
of the allegation. One is kind of, you know, lack
of institutional control. That's kind of maybe resemble what the
Penn State looked at with Joe paternal what all these
different issues going on at the Washington Commander's hqu at
some point that's got to fall in the owner. The
other part of the allegation, and to this personal comment
(33:20):
policy point, he was accused himself of sexual harassment sexual
assault with a former team employee and allegedly paid her
one point six million dollars to make that case go away.
So you know they're looking at a really high level.
Obviously Watson involves a lot more accusers, but it's settling
cases about sexual assault, sexual misconduct. And you know, Watson's
(33:42):
being pursued for a one year suspension and Dan Tider
got find ten million dollars, which to him is a
drop in the bucket. Um, So I think the NFL
has got to be careful here the present. They fit
with Watson. It's a what they get dispended for a year.
You got to think that people are gonna be calling
for Snyder to be publicly reprimanded with a formal year
suspension something right or some form of the games. But
(34:05):
you know, players and owners are supposed to be held
to this personal comment policy, and by the optics, it
looks like only the players are. I mean, that's that's
at least one favor reading of this unreal good man, Dan,
We always appreciate your time, great insight. Is always an
hope we get a chance to talk again soon. Always
a pleasure, guys, anytime nice then
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Jason Smith
Mike Harmon
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