May 18, 2020 • 41 mins
It's The Best of The Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob Parker! Chris and Rob discuss how The Last Dance documentary has turned a bunch of millennials into Michael Jordan fans, debate whether or not the Chicago Bulls would've won a 7th championship if they were to have run it back in 1999 rather than break up the roster, and explain why LeBron James' case for the GOAT took a major hit over the past 5 weeks.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of The Odd
Couple with Chris Brush and Rod Harker. Now, you and I.
You said it, and I agreed with you that when
this documentary began that you believed it was going to
(00:42):
make more Michael Jordan fans. Obviously, the older generation us
even those above us, knew what Jordan had done, and
most of us viewed him as the goat. But you thought,
and again I agree with you, that the younger generation,
the millennials, the ones who think it's Lebron or Kobe
(01:05):
or someone else is the goat, that they will see
Michael Jordan and all his basketball glory, and that they
will be one over some of them, A good number
of them will be one over. And Rob, there's a
pole that ESPN did. Let me say this before you
get okay, and I'm gonna say this Chris. The reason
(01:28):
I thought that was because it's a difference between watching
old games on YouTube and having a context to it.
And that's why I thought, once people watch the journey,
see it wasn't that glorified in the beginning. You know,
it wasn't like he was anointed before he won anything.
(01:50):
He just it just wasn't that people probably thought that, right.
I really believe that all Jordan was the goat from
day one. No, he was not. His first rookie All
Star gave me at eight points, didn't even get the
ball that much. People weren't like crowning him the pistons
and knicks. They worked him over like a burger and fries. Chris.
(02:12):
The media. You'd have social media, but the media would
killed him early on. They killed Michael come fly with
me videos. Yes, he had the Jordan's sneakers. He had.
He had been anointed in terms of the endorsements, yes,
and you know it's in popular culture, but he wasn't winning.
(02:34):
And the real basketball folks were like, yo, magic and
Bird win. They're not doing all these videos, but they win,
you know. And that was the difference. So it was
so it wasn't social media, but the media, and you
even saw I think after his dad died and the
stuff that was out there. People didn't have kid gloves.
There were reporters out there from all kinds of outlets,
(02:55):
Chris doing investigative journalism, trying to find stuff. Stuff was
being was being published in Chicago, outside of Chicago books.
Everything it was all eyes on Michael Jordan then. So
that's why I really believe once you put it in
context and you really see this guy's journey, see what
(03:17):
he was able to overcome and the obstacles in his way,
that people would have an appreciation for him and realized, Chris,
what we both knew as guys who have covered basketball
and loved basketball, we already knew. But I really had
that feeling that this would would change people. And then
(03:38):
I will admit not as much as I thought it would.
When the poll came out and I saw it, I
was shocked by the pole. Well. I think the thing is,
we don't know what the numbers were before the you know,
the the documentary, so we don't know how much it turned.
But I was surprised, as you were, that he was
(04:00):
so dominant every category younger group now here. Here's the basically,
basically what the gist of the poll was. ESPN has
seventeen categories in which they asked they compared Lebron and
Michael Jordan and Jordans swept all seventeen. They all seventeen categories.
(04:22):
Fans said Jordan was the winner. Jordan was pick. Yeah,
best player overall, Jordan, NBA was They even said the
NBA was better all around back then. Then then now,
I mean, and then you know who would win one
on one. I mean it was a number of them,
even the sneakers, better sneakers for fashion, better sneakers to
(04:44):
play in. Uh. And then here's the thing. They had
six hundred voters or respondents, and it was it was
evenly split in age group. So yet a thirty four group, right,
and then the thirty five and older, the thirty five
five and older. Not surprisingly, Jordan won seventy nine percent
(05:05):
of the votes. But in the younger group eighteen to
thirty four, he still won sixty six percent. That's an
incredible number. Yeah, every is that's two out of every three,
that's two out of three. That's an incredible number. And
those all the younger people who didn't see him play.
(05:26):
Basically let me say this about the pole, and then
I want to say something else about Lebron. It may
have hurt him. Look, as you know, Rob and everybody
that listens to show knows, I believe Jordan's the goat.
I was actually debating Nick right on that this today
on first things first, it's more and Nick wrong. Of
(05:47):
course he was, I'll put him in his place. But anyway,
this poll, though, as much as Jordan is the goat,
it was like they asked the question who who's the
better passer? And Jordan? They asked who you trust to
pass you the ball? And Jordan one fifty seven percent. Rob,
(06:12):
those there's there's no way Jordan's a better passer than Lebrin,
And there's certainly no way you're gonna trust him to
pass you the ball more than Lebron James, who loves
to pass the ball. Yeah, but but they saw Jordan
pass the ball in clutch moments to situations. So I
think that's what people know anything. I mean, are they
(06:36):
are they basing it solely on the last dance? No,
I'm just thinking, like I imagine it has some knowledge
of basketball, right, but you know, these guys careers. I agree,
But I think the freshness of him passing to Steve Kerr,
like just just the strength of a Chris when you
see the video and he tells Steve Kerr, it's one
(06:57):
thing to tell a story, a fish story. How big
it was that he called, but to watch it and
to him sitting there going it's all right, I'm coming
to you, be ready, do you know what i mean?
Like like he he knew it. It wasn't like Mike
was scared to shoot the last shot or was putting
it off on somebody else. He set it up, he
knew it was coming. That that that to me is
(07:18):
different from Okay, I have the ball, the clock is
ticking down, and I'm both play hot potato and passes
because I don't want to be the goat, you know,
or and I mean visiting right, I mean it means
Mike was all right, wasn't was a star, but he
understood that he wanted to win and Steve cor was
gonna be wide open, which he was. Well, that's part
(07:39):
of the the mythology that needs to be corrected that
Jordan took every last shot. He didn't, you know, I
mean we we John Paxon, who you know, won his
finals game for him and series clinching jump shot in
the first three peat. Jordan really wasn't even involved in
that play of it. Didn't get the inbounds pass. And
(08:00):
you know, obviously he you know, the fifty five point
the double nickel in Madison Square Garden five games after
he comes back from baseball, he passed the game winner
off to Bill Winnington for an easy layup or dunk
whatever it was under the basket. But that's so you're
right in that Jordan was a very good passer. He's
not a better passer than Lebron, but he was a
(08:23):
good passer. One year, the average eight assists a game,
and so he could pass the basketball. I'll tell you
the other one that was just surprised, and just based
off of his size, that they picked Michael to be
uh Lebron in a one on one game. I was
surprised at that one, that one at maybe the passing one.
But those are the only two that I would have thought.
(08:45):
And I'm talking about Lebron sidewise, Chris, not skill wise,
but but maybe that they would have picked Lebron. But
to be told, with his white would have been tight,
like I mean, it'd be interesting. I think people that
would vote Jordan are totally going on Jordan's killer instinct,
you know, like they know he would have found a way.
(09:06):
But you're right with Lebron size that would have made
an interesting There's another one, no route, and this one
I think was I'm gonna be honest, I bet you
this one was largely broke down across the races. Positive
impact off the court sixty two for Jordan. I would
believe the majority of African Americans voted for Lebron in
(09:30):
that one. I mean, Jordan did a lot, obviously, I mean,
unless people are looking at it like, oh, he built
the game of basketball into a world game and took
it global, and he's an African American owner, and you
know he had the great image be like Mike and
all that. But let's keep it real. Lebron James has
(09:52):
done far more as players off the court than Jordan.
There's no and and I mean again, maybe whites may
have looked at it differently, don't you know. And I
can't imagine Blacks put Jordan over Lebron. Most of I
don't know, you know, what is it? Is it during
(10:13):
his playing time or entire career because Jordan didn't do
stuff Chris where he opened up the medical center in Charlotte.
He gave money for the UH for both sides, like
the police and the UH. I mean, I hear what
you're saying. And Lebron has done a lot obviously with
his I promised school. Lebron's done, are you you? Rob?
(10:34):
Lebron hasn't done more? I don't know? And make his
mother thing? Is it fresh? The China thing fresh for people?
Nost but most people close, most Americans didn't care about that.
But I'm saying, why do you think it's not closed? Though? Well,
look again, as much as I agree with the pole
(10:56):
and that Jordan is the goat, I think this cheapens
the pole a little bit and it makes it seem like, what, like,
what are people doing? This almost makes it look like
the college pole, the college you know tournament they had
when shot beats Kareem, When didn't Jordan when that? It
(11:16):
probably speaks the rod. I think Jordan wasn't that. If
I'm not mistaken, he was the greatest college. But my right,
this speaks to the myth of Michael Jordan. And again
I'm with you, he's the goat, But Rob, Some of
these are just it could have been twelve five or
(11:36):
thirteen four. Team. Why do you think everybody, why do
you think they abandoned Lebron? In this case, the younger
I think Ron are more well, okay, I'm not talking
about the younger people abandoning him that I think One,
he's far more polarizing. But two and this is what
I was gonna get you earlier, Rob, And this is
(11:58):
maybe I don't know if this were I believe perhaps
the fact that you, like you said it in the beginning,
we saw Jordan's battle, right, he goes to this horrible team.
He's got teammates who are doing drugs, you know, I
mean they don't the GM doesn't want him to play
because they might make the play like. He's fighting every
(12:21):
every which way. He's got obstacles coming his way, right,
and he keeps losing to the Detroit Pistons who are
trying to beat him up. And he sticks there, he
stays and ultimately overcomes. And here seven years just like
Lebron wasn't clear killed, they didn't criticize and I think
(12:42):
people may again maybe hold it that against Lebron, that wow,
Jordan was in a similar situation and he didn't out.
And I've never held it against Lebron. I do think
he sold himself short because I think there I've always
said that that he could have stayed there. Eventually he
(13:04):
was that good Chris, that he was gonna win, and
he panicked, He panicked, and and he could have stayed there.
I'm telling you, if Lebron would have stayed in Cleveland
and one and was three and owen championships doing what
he did in that organization at Town Chris, it would
be a different with his other numbers. It'd be a
different conversation. No, I really and I do think maybe
(13:27):
that's something because you spelled it out early. He said, Look,
he went through all these obstacles. He stuck it out.
It wasn't easy. And I think maybe people look at
like Lebron bail and you know, it worked out and
he got his rings, but you know, the Cleveland ring
means more right than the Miami rings, as good as
those were, and people may look at it like, well,
(13:49):
Jordans stayed in the same place, built that place into
a dynasty. So I think that may be a factor. Robbing.
I think the millennials maybe put you know maybe looked
at that. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Odd Couple with Chris Broussar then Rob Parker weekdays at
seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the iHeart Radio app. Let's get to another thing
(14:12):
that came out last night, Rob, is that Michael Jordan
was upset that the Bulls were broken up after their
sixth championship in eight years. Here's what he said about
wanting to stick around and go for number seven ninety eight.
Cross already said at the beginning of the season, Phil
(14:32):
can go eighty two and oh and he was never
gonna be the coach. So when Phil said it was
the last dance, it was the last dance. We knew
they weren't going to keep the team. Now, they could
have nixed all of it at the beginning of ninety eight.
Why say that statement at beginning of ninety eight. If
you ask all the guys who won in ninety eight,
(14:52):
Steve Kourge, Boosler, blah blah blah, we give you one
year contract to try foot seven, do you think they
would have signed, Yes, they would signed without signed for
one year. Yes, I would have signed for one year
I've been signing one year contracts up to that with
Phil done it. Yes, now, Pip, you would have to
do some convincing. But if Phil was gonna be there,
then it's just gonna be there. I MJ's gonna be
(15:14):
there to win out seven. Pip is not gonna miss
hunt out on that. All right, Rob, what do you
think Jordan Maker said? Let me let me say this,
Let me say Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead,
No way, no how Mike has revisionist history. And it's
easy to say that after the fact when you got
(15:36):
a pop belly and you got a lot of money,
and you own a team, and you could sit there
and say, oh yeah, I would have signed a one
year deal, and so would have all these other guys.
We just had Chris mannox on him, and I think
his point was well taken about what was at stake
for the other guys who all finally got paid and
(15:57):
got money. This isn't twenty twenty where people scrubs him
making twenty million dollars, Chris, people didn't make the kind
of money that they make now. And the other part is,
I think it's so hard to win. And even Michael,
even before They kept talking about how tired he was
and how worn out he was. And now all of
(16:17):
a sudden, you know, twenty years later, he's talking about,
oh yeah, I was ready. I would have been ready
for another year, another one. I don't believe that they
would have been automatically won again. And I don't think
guys would have joined in. Michael had the sneaker deal,
Michael had off the court money Michael had. Yes, he
(16:39):
could have signed a one year deal. He could have
done it. I don't think the other guys could have
done it. Well. I remember that was the lockout season.
You remember that, and I was covering that lockout for
the New York Times. Jordan wasn't sure of what he
was gonna do, you know, just during the lockout. Remember
he played an instrumental role in that lockout, and there
(17:03):
was always in the negotiations this question of was Jordan
gonna play again? And so I think had Now Jerry
Ryansdorff goes to Phil Jackson and says, we want you
to come back, but we're gonna rebuild. To me, that's,
for lack of a better term, disingenuous. You. Of course,
Phil Jackson didn't want to rebuild after winning six championships,
(17:27):
and of course Michael Jordan didn't want to rebuild. Here's
the deal, right, mean you always say this, and I
agree with this point you make. You're talking about billionaire owners. Okay.
Scottie Pipping, I believe got a five year, sixty seven
million dollars deal with Houston. It was a sign in trade. Okay,
(17:48):
So Chicago signed and traded him. They could have signed
Pipping to a large one year deal. Jordan had been
doing one year deals. Remember you got thirty million in
ninety seven and thirty three million in ninety seven ninety
eight that last year, so they could have done something
similar for Pippo had his bird rights, he could have
(18:09):
got you know, twenty million or something like that. Now
that's not sixty seven million. So we're talking again billionaire owners.
And Jerry Ryan's door fifty wanted two could have given
Pippin a long term deal. Pippin was thirty one years old.
He's gonna turn thirty two in September of that year.
(18:30):
And the next year he played all fifty games or
the lockout season. He averaged forty minutes a game all
fifty games. The next year he played all eighty two.
That's when after that he was a sixty four, sixty two,
sixty four. So then that's my point is this rob
the acrimony that made Pippen want to go, was it necessary?
(18:55):
They could have taken care of Pippen earlier. They could have,
you know, told him, look we're gonna They could have
taken care of him at that point. He didn't have
to be upset if they had been managed correctly, and
if you had, I think what they would have had
to do is you got filled back, You got Mike
back because Phil's there. If they take care of Pipping,
(19:17):
which they should have. He helped you get six titles
for goodness sake, you know, and he's thirty one years old.
He's not forty, he's not thirty five, and then you
wouldn't The guy you probably would have had to replace
was Dennis rob Me. They look, they could lose Luke
Longley and freaking Steve Kerr. They can find a shooter
like Kerr close enough. They always did. B J. Armstrong,
(19:41):
John Paxton, Craig Hodges, Steve Kerry is not unique. They
could have got one of them. And Luke Longley again,
Bill Winnington will Purdue, Bill Cartwright, Stacy King, Bison Daily.
I mean, my goodness, seven foot guys that are good
for a bunch of files can be found anywhere, So
(20:03):
I'm not worried about them. Go get your money, Luke
and Steve. Fine, we could get those. Rodman would have
been the guy. And the question is this, could they have?
Could Phil and Mike have controlled Rodman for one more year?
Because his career was basically over. He goes there later
(20:23):
next year plays twenty three games, and then I think
Dallas the year after that plays twelve. But how much
of that was physical and how much of it was mental? Chicago?
He had acted up in San Antonio before getting to Chicago,
but Chicago they were able to control. I'm not sure
they could have because obviously he was, you know, acting
(20:43):
up in the last year in Chicago, you know, going
to wrestle and going to Vegas and all that stuff.
So maybe during the finals, right right, I think that right? Okay? So,
and I probably would have gone with you on that.
If I was, you know, insition running the bulls, I
probably would have said, you know what, we gotta let
Dennis go. We got three straight he's acting up, we
(21:07):
got the most out of him that we can. But
instead of Jerry Krause putting all his energy into doing
the three side and trades for pipping Longley and Kerr,
how about putting your energy into making a deal that
gets you a replacement for Dennis Robbin. He's not gonna
be as good as Robin, but go get me somebody
(21:27):
that can rebound that's tough, and then bring me some shoes.
Like I just think, yeah, it would have been tough
to do, and like I said, I'm wanting for things
to work out. And Ransdorff could have done it, he's
a billionaire, but they didn't want to. This is a
question though, rob Let's for arguments sake, Let's say they
(21:48):
could have come back. They do you think they could
have gotten to the finals and beaten the San Antonio
Spurs of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Uh No, So
you don't. I just think now, I just think that
that even and they won. I'm not saying that they
didn't win. It wasn't easy. There was a hard four
(22:09):
battles in that series and they and they were able
to win that series against Utah. But I think that
things do come to an end. And they were fortunate
most of the times. Uh when when dynasties or whatever happened,
you know, it's like everything falls apart, it collapses, right,
And they were they were fortunate to just go out
and go out on top. Not very not very often
(22:31):
do people get to do that. And uh, I just
think that the that that championship run had run his course,
that was a lot trying to get out of it.
The Robin thing is a perfect example, Chris, where you know,
here he is during the finals, sneaking off to good
not coming to practice. It's the finals. I get it.
They offered you two hundred and fifty thousand dollars kind
(22:53):
of tells you about the money as well. That he
would take the twenty thousand dollars fine to make two
hundred and thirty thousand, right, Like, Okay, if you were
a basketball playing you were serious about what you were doing,
and you know, can we reschedule that a couple of days?
Is all that you're talking about, Dennis Robin. Do you
think Rodman has ever uttered the words can we reschedule that?
(23:16):
But anyway, But but my point is, I just I
just think it's a vigionist history to think that I
could hear him saying he would like to go. But
I'm I don't think they would win again. That's what
that's Remember, I don't believe that they would win again.
I think they and again I'm talking about a nucleus
of Jackson, Jordan and Pipping and then you know, put
(23:38):
put stuff around them. I think they could have beaten
that Spurs team. Look, remember who got to the finals
in the East, rob it was the Knicks of Latrells,
Fretty Well, Alan Houston, Marcus Canby. I mean they were
an ac they weren't world beaters, so it was a
short beating when you were the one season the Miami Miami.
(24:02):
But that Miami team was, you know, they were all
those teams were pretty good. Indiana the Knicks beat Indiana too,
and you know, and so I think the Bulls team
with Jordan and Pippen would have been better than that
Knicks team. And then you get to the finals. David Robinson, well,
he wasn't the MVP David Robinson anymore. He averaged fewer
(24:25):
than sixteen points a game that season, so he was
not the same Duncan obviously was Duncan a young Duncan
but he was the man. Robinson was fading, and then
you had Avery Johnson, Jaren Jackson and Sean Elliott on
the perimeter. I mean, I do think the Bulls it
(24:46):
would have been tough to bring him back, but I
think they could have won that championship. And here's what
I say, whether they could have or not, I believe
rob there's one of two ways for dynasties to end,
or they should in this way. Either you get beat
on the court or on the field, or you're some
(25:06):
key member of your nucleus. And I'm talking about like
the first best player really or maybe the second walks
away because of age, like Kareem. When Kareem retired from showtime,
he was forty two years old. It was age he
had to go. That's how I think it shouldn't. I
just think it's a shame. It'd be one thing if
(25:28):
Jordan was like, I don't want to play anymore. But
I think it's a shame for in fighting and politics
in the front office. And let's keep it real. Jerry
Reinsdorf is ultimately the blame because he's the owner and
caused the shots. But the only thing is I think
that is I don't think anybody believes that they got
(25:48):
cheated by that Bulls dynasty. I think that they nobody
agree with that. Would you like nobody goes oh man,
I mean it was premature. I know nobody got cheated.
I think people look at that and marvel out of two.
I think I think Jordan feels like he said he
said last night, though he still can't get over it
(26:13):
and get over anything. Though. He can't get over the
guy beat him out of the high school and on
his high school team. He can't get over his high
school coach. He can't get over the pizza guy in Utah.
He can't get over anything, can't get its aid Thomas.
He can't get robbed. That's what drove him to bed.
But joya life a little bit. Here's the thing, right,
(26:35):
he still had basketball lefted him. You know this because
three years later he came back. It was actually good.
He wasn't great. He was a legitimate All Star, but
he was still with rob was he still not the
best player in the world. Nah, But he couldn't motor.
He couldn't get those guys to what They couldn't even
make the playoffs where sixteen of the thirty teams made
(26:55):
the playoff, but that was three years later. I'm talking
about saying, no matter how he back, I'm talking about
had he come back in ninety eight, ninety nine, the
year he retired, he was still the best player in
the world. How does that make sense. I'm running an organization.
We got the best coach in the world, we got
the best player in the world. We didn't even go seven.
(27:19):
We went six games in the five. I mean all
this they got pushed the rink. They were up three one.
But wait a minute, but but the same the same
argument you're making, that would be the argument on how
come Lebron hasn't won If he's the best player in
the world, with what he's had around him, he wasn't
able to win. I'm just saying it ain't that orm. No,
(27:40):
of course, Up and other teams were getting better. I
know why they didn't want it, Chris. They were making money.
That building was sold out for the next three years probably,
and they would They didn't want to pay. They wanted
to start over, and they wanted to not pay. I mean,
that's the reason that they really didn't want it. I agree,
(28:01):
and I don't. I don't think that was no, but
it was a financial thing. They were like, I agree,
we can sell out this building for the next people
still gonna come. They got season tickets, we'll make money.
We got a lower payroll, and we don't have to
deal with all that. I'm I agree with that, but
I just think that's a shameful way for a dynasty
(28:22):
to end. Let them get beat. Jordan said it at
the beginning of the series. Remember I guess it was
after their fifth ring. I believe when he said, I
believe we should have the right to defend what we've built.
Remember that, and he said the Cubs been rebuilding for
forty two years, which is actually longer, much longer than that.
But Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup
(28:45):
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox
Sports Radio dot com and within the iHeart Radio app
search f SR to listen live. We start off the
show talking about this ESPN poll where they had seventeen
different categories comparing Michael Jordan and Lebron James, and they
pulled people from ages eighteen on up eighteen to thirty
(29:07):
five and then thirty five and above, or I think
maybe maybe it was thirty five to fifty four. But anyway,
Jordan one in all seventeen categories, even amongst the young folk,
the millennials, and we you and I both believe that
the documentary did influence some of the younger people to
(29:31):
start thinking that Jordan is the goat over Lebron. One
guy it didn't influence was a former and Lebron team
make Channing Fry, And here's what he had to say,
not gonna lie. I wasn't a Jordan fan. I'm from Phoenix.
I'm a Barclay guy. I'm a Kevin Johnson guy. I'm
a thunder Dan guy. So as much as everyone's shocked,
(29:54):
I never had Jordan, I'm my top player of all time. Anyways,
Tim Duncan, I had Koge. I have Lebron all time.
He only had really one job, and that was to
just score, and he did that at an amazing, amazing rate.
But I don't feel like his way of winning then
would translate to what it is now. Guys wouldn't want
(30:16):
to play with him. Hello, shot, is this Channing French Fry? Hello,
he's in too much Chris, go oil right now, Chris,
because I don't get what are he's talking about. I
get it. You play with Lebron. Okay, you can respect,
(30:37):
you could admire him, I get it. How in the
world could you say that? I just don't even know
on what basis that A guy who pushes you to
get the best out of you, who competes, who never
cheats anybody. Chris puts it all out on the floor.
That's what a teammate. It supposed to be, right, And
you got a chance to win every year? Hello, where
(30:58):
do I sign up? And then the guy you're talking about,
Lebron and defending and I get it. Your friends, can
we give you Lebron's history? Kyrie won a championship with Lebron.
Wanted out. You had a chance to get Kawhi Leonard,
(31:19):
which would have made his life a lot easier in LA.
He would have got to play in his hometown LA
with Lebron, with Anthony Davis probably could have missed as
many games as he wanted to the next three years,
Chris and probably would have won three championships in the row. Right, Probably,
you're right, If they I'm serious, they probably would have
(31:42):
ye all right, he wanted no part of it. And
it's the same thing Paul George, who had two chances
to play with Lebron, same kind of thing, and didn't
didn't take either opportunity. So before you go out and
run out and talk about nobody would want to play
with Jordan, I totally disagree. I think that this is
(32:05):
one of those where you can praise Lebron and you
could say what a great teammate he was and do
all that, But to go out there publicly and say that,
like there was something wrong with playing with Michael and
didn't you watch it? Steve Kerr talked about it. Not
only did him and Michael get into a little fish
(32:26):
to cops, but he also wound up believing in Steve
Kerr and passing him the ball in big moments. I
just Chris is so off base. I don't. I just don't.
I don't get the allegiance to be that much to
be anti Jordan. You could say I much rather play
with Lebron and give his reasons why, But to say
(32:47):
nobody would want to play with Jordan, I disagree. Yeah,
I agree with you. I disagree with Channing. And it's
just bad history number one. To say that all Jordan
did was score, well, it is ludicrous, all right. Obviously
he was the best score we've ever seen. He led
the league in scoring essentially ten straight years, you know,
(33:08):
ten straight years when he was healthy and played full seasons.
And Rob Michael Jordan had six seasons or seven seasons
if you round up, you know which we're taught to do,
seven seasons where he averaged six assists the game. For
his career, he averaged five point three. Now, I've only
(33:31):
looked at a few guys, but that's better than Minnu Jenoble.
Minu Genoble averaged three point eight assist for his career.
Tracy McGrady, whose viewed as an all around player, he
averaged four point four assists for his career. Would you
ever you think Channon Fry would ever say about Tracy
McGrady or Minnu Genoble All they had to do was score. No,
(33:54):
just ridiculous. And yet Jordan averaged more assist than them.
And Rob. Of course you notice he was a nine
time All defensive player. Hello, not two, not three, nine times?
Stop it chanting, stop it, I mean, it's it's just look,
and I've said this, you don't have to tear down
(34:18):
one of the guys to build up or not. That's
what I just Sai, am, I right, That's what I said.
If you want to if you want to praise Lebron
as a teammate, Chris, do it. But to say nobody
would want to play with Jordan when when the exact opposite,
If anything, Lebron has been turned down more than anybody.
Nobody wanted to come to Cleveland, right, so he went
(34:39):
to Miami. Right, I mean, those are facts that I'm
making it up, making it up. I mean, I look,
you're stronger than nobody wants to play with him. I
obviously think more players wanted to play with him than
you do. But there's no doubt guys have turned him down,
There's no question about that. And I think and one
of the reasons Rob, I think maybe the rules could
(35:01):
have come back in one seven is because I do
think had they been able to offer some you know,
some minimum deals, some vets in search of a ring
would have gone to play with Michael Jordan, you know,
to replace Kerr and long Lean guys like that. So
but yeah, to say nobody would have wanted to play
with Jordan is just that's just off. So what I
(35:22):
want to do, Rob, and you and I both think
that Jordan's the goat. I want to present, let's present why,
and then I want to hear from Lebron fans. And
we both look, we both give Lebron major respect. He's
the we second on both of our lists, so we're
not dissinging, and we don't agree on a lot of stuff.
(35:43):
So exactly so, I'm gonna share why Jordan is the goal,
and we want to hear from callers, mainly guys that
think Lebron's the goal. We want to hear your your answer,
your argument. I'm gonna say, try to say it quickly.
Rob First of all, Jordan had no weaknesses, none like there's.
(36:03):
He could pass, he could defend, he could shoot, he
could drive three pointers. Obviously he didn't shoot a lot
of them, but it wasn't a weakness at that time.
And even if you want to just go off the percentage,
he shot the same percentage thirty two point seven Kobe
was thirty two point nine. Do we ever look at
(36:23):
Kobe and say three pointers were a weakness. No, So
at the very time, it wasn't a weakness. If you
want to say it wasn't a strength, okay, it wasn't
a weakness. Jordan didn't have any. Lebron, as great as
he is, has some weaknesses, most notably the free throw shooting.
That's a weakness and he's not terrible, but he's not
(36:43):
really good at it either, and it becomes it can
become an issue, and it seems like doing crunch time too,
like you know what I mean, like when you really
need to knock him down. Yeah. I don't know if
he's missed more during crust. I mean, he's just not
you know, he's seventy three basic or seven four percent
for his career. It's okay, you know, but it can
become a weakness. He doesn't move well without the basketball.
(37:07):
That can make it tougher to play with other stars
because he has to have the ball in his hands
all the time. And then I think he doesn't really
have a goal to shot, you know that that you know,
at the end of games, it's always it's either to
the basket all the way or the long three. So
I think those are minor weaknesses in Lebron's game. I
(37:27):
think Jordan doesn't have any. I also think that the
longevity argument, which is a strength for Lebron, typically in
his argument against Jordan, the thing is you gotta start winning,
you gotta win more, like, because at some point that
longevity could become a negative. Jordan won six rings in
(37:49):
fifteen years. He was hurt for one of those years,
essentially the whole year and one he only played eighteen
games because of baseball. If you take those out, that
six and thirteen. If you take out the old Man
years in Washington, that's six and eleven. Either way you
want to measure it, it's six and eleven or six
and fifteen. Lebron's got three and sixteen. If Lebron has
(38:12):
two more great seasons, which he's fully capable of, but
doesn't win rings, you're talking about Rob three and nineteen years.
That is not impressing. Magic won five and twelve. Essentially,
Bird won three and I believe thirteen. Like, if you
(38:33):
don't win more, the longevity could work against you. Finally,
I'll say this Rob the super Team. A lot of
people say Lebron's in the super team era and that's
why he had won more because he's faced super teams. Yeah,
but he also was on super teams. That's the thing.
Like Miami was the super team and they only won
two out of four, and the Cleveland him Kyrie and
(38:56):
Kevin Love. That's a super team. Kyrie's clearly all of famer.
Love was putting up numbers, right, numbers. Before he got there,
he was running of nothing but numbers. So that those
are some things where I just think Jordan's ahead of it.
When I look at it, it's very clear and Lebron
(39:18):
has all these numbers and stats, Chris you cannot deny,
and he could pass Kareem Abdul Jabbar and I get
all that. But when you're looking at when we talk
about being the goat, we always look at we're gonna
nitpick and look at everything. And the one thing that
you can't nitpick with Michael Jordan is he didn't just win.
He would He led the league and scoring ten times.
(39:40):
You met it was a defensive player to your defensive
first team. What nine years was the number all these
all defense nine times? So when you look at that,
he did a lot of stuff, but he also won.
That's the other part. It wasn't like one or the other.
He did everything. So so when I look at it,
the winning to me matters because I think ultimately that's
(40:04):
why you play. So yes, you can, you can, you
can win MVPs. You could do all this other stuff,
but ultimately, did you win when it was all said
and done, and he checks all those boxes and he
wasn't on the on the on the bandwagon and somebody
else was leading the way and Scottie Pippen won two
(40:25):
finals MVPs. Do you know what I mean? Like like,
you can't do that, You can't tag Jordan for that.
That that would to me if if he won six
championships and Scottie won three MVPs, we got a different conversation,
don't we, Chris. Yeah, it's certainly opening it up to
other people beat him, compete with him, That's what I'm saying.
(40:46):
But but here is this's open and shut. So when
I look at everything and I nippicked through everything, it's
hard for me to look at Michael Jordan and go
somebody was better than him, especially not Braun, who yes,
got to the finals a lot, but didn't win enough.
And you're right the super team building that and not
(41:08):
really being special. They should have won at least three
in a row, Chris. They would have put themselves in
a special class right with a handful of guys who
had done it. They couldn't even do that with a
stacked team, and then you can't argue that, well, it's
not fair because the Warriors are stacked. And no, you
(41:29):
started Facebook. I mean you started MySpace and the Warriors
started Facebook, right, but you started it so you can't
be mad at it after the fact.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching f
(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of The Odd
Couple with Chris Brush and Rod Harker. Now, you and I.
You said it, and I agreed with you that when
this documentary began that you believed it was going to
(00:42):
make more Michael Jordan fans. Obviously, the older generation us
even those above us, knew what Jordan had done, and
most of us viewed him as the goat. But you thought,
and again I agree with you, that the younger generation,
the millennials, the ones who think it's Lebron or Kobe
(01:05):
or someone else is the goat, that they will see
Michael Jordan and all his basketball glory, and that they
will be one over some of them, A good number
of them will be one over. And Rob, there's a
pole that ESPN did. Let me say this before you
get okay, and I'm gonna say this Chris. The reason
(01:28):
I thought that was because it's a difference between watching
old games on YouTube and having a context to it.
And that's why I thought, once people watch the journey,
see it wasn't that glorified in the beginning. You know,
it wasn't like he was anointed before he won anything.
(01:50):
He just it just wasn't that people probably thought that, right.
I really believe that all Jordan was the goat from
day one. No, he was not. His first rookie All
Star gave me at eight points, didn't even get the
ball that much. People weren't like crowning him the pistons
and knicks. They worked him over like a burger and fries. Chris.
(02:12):
The media. You'd have social media, but the media would
killed him early on. They killed Michael come fly with
me videos. Yes, he had the Jordan's sneakers. He had.
He had been anointed in terms of the endorsements, yes,
and you know it's in popular culture, but he wasn't winning.
(02:34):
And the real basketball folks were like, yo, magic and
Bird win. They're not doing all these videos, but they win,
you know. And that was the difference. So it was
so it wasn't social media, but the media, and you
even saw I think after his dad died and the
stuff that was out there. People didn't have kid gloves.
There were reporters out there from all kinds of outlets,
(02:55):
Chris doing investigative journalism, trying to find stuff. Stuff was
being was being published in Chicago, outside of Chicago books.
Everything it was all eyes on Michael Jordan then. So
that's why I really believe once you put it in
context and you really see this guy's journey, see what
(03:17):
he was able to overcome and the obstacles in his way,
that people would have an appreciation for him and realized, Chris,
what we both knew as guys who have covered basketball
and loved basketball, we already knew. But I really had
that feeling that this would would change people. And then
(03:38):
I will admit not as much as I thought it would.
When the poll came out and I saw it, I
was shocked by the pole. Well. I think the thing is,
we don't know what the numbers were before the you know,
the the documentary, so we don't know how much it turned.
But I was surprised, as you were, that he was
(04:00):
so dominant every category younger group now here. Here's the basically,
basically what the gist of the poll was. ESPN has
seventeen categories in which they asked they compared Lebron and
Michael Jordan and Jordans swept all seventeen. They all seventeen categories.
(04:22):
Fans said Jordan was the winner. Jordan was pick. Yeah,
best player overall, Jordan, NBA was They even said the
NBA was better all around back then. Then then now,
I mean, and then you know who would win one
on one. I mean it was a number of them,
even the sneakers, better sneakers for fashion, better sneakers to
(04:44):
play in. Uh. And then here's the thing. They had
six hundred voters or respondents, and it was it was
evenly split in age group. So yet a thirty four group, right,
and then the thirty five and older, the thirty five
five and older. Not surprisingly, Jordan won seventy nine percent
(05:05):
of the votes. But in the younger group eighteen to
thirty four, he still won sixty six percent. That's an
incredible number. Yeah, every is that's two out of every three,
that's two out of three. That's an incredible number. And
those all the younger people who didn't see him play.
(05:26):
Basically let me say this about the pole, and then
I want to say something else about Lebron. It may
have hurt him. Look, as you know, Rob and everybody
that listens to show knows, I believe Jordan's the goat.
I was actually debating Nick right on that this today
on first things first, it's more and Nick wrong. Of
(05:47):
course he was, I'll put him in his place. But anyway,
this poll, though, as much as Jordan is the goat,
it was like they asked the question who who's the
better passer? And Jordan? They asked who you trust to
pass you the ball? And Jordan one fifty seven percent. Rob,
(06:12):
those there's there's no way Jordan's a better passer than Lebrin,
And there's certainly no way you're gonna trust him to
pass you the ball more than Lebron James, who loves
to pass the ball. Yeah, but but they saw Jordan
pass the ball in clutch moments to situations. So I
think that's what people know anything. I mean, are they
(06:36):
are they basing it solely on the last dance? No,
I'm just thinking, like I imagine it has some knowledge
of basketball, right, but you know, these guys careers. I agree,
But I think the freshness of him passing to Steve Kerr,
like just just the strength of a Chris when you
see the video and he tells Steve Kerr, it's one
(06:57):
thing to tell a story, a fish story. How big
it was that he called, but to watch it and
to him sitting there going it's all right, I'm coming
to you, be ready, do you know what i mean?
Like like he he knew it. It wasn't like Mike
was scared to shoot the last shot or was putting
it off on somebody else. He set it up, he
knew it was coming. That that that to me is
(07:18):
different from Okay, I have the ball, the clock is
ticking down, and I'm both play hot potato and passes
because I don't want to be the goat, you know,
or and I mean visiting right, I mean it means
Mike was all right, wasn't was a star, but he
understood that he wanted to win and Steve cor was
gonna be wide open, which he was. Well, that's part
(07:39):
of the the mythology that needs to be corrected that
Jordan took every last shot. He didn't, you know, I
mean we we John Paxon, who you know, won his
finals game for him and series clinching jump shot in
the first three peat. Jordan really wasn't even involved in
that play of it. Didn't get the inbounds pass. And
(08:00):
you know, obviously he you know, the fifty five point
the double nickel in Madison Square Garden five games after
he comes back from baseball, he passed the game winner
off to Bill Winnington for an easy layup or dunk
whatever it was under the basket. But that's so you're
right in that Jordan was a very good passer. He's
not a better passer than Lebron, but he was a
(08:23):
good passer. One year, the average eight assists a game,
and so he could pass the basketball. I'll tell you
the other one that was just surprised, and just based
off of his size, that they picked Michael to be
uh Lebron in a one on one game. I was
surprised at that one, that one at maybe the passing one.
But those are the only two that I would have thought.
(08:45):
And I'm talking about Lebron sidewise, Chris, not skill wise,
but but maybe that they would have picked Lebron. But
to be told, with his white would have been tight,
like I mean, it'd be interesting. I think people that
would vote Jordan are totally going on Jordan's killer instinct,
you know, like they know he would have found a way.
(09:06):
But you're right with Lebron size that would have made
an interesting There's another one, no route, and this one
I think was I'm gonna be honest, I bet you
this one was largely broke down across the races. Positive
impact off the court sixty two for Jordan. I would
believe the majority of African Americans voted for Lebron in
(09:30):
that one. I mean, Jordan did a lot, obviously, I mean,
unless people are looking at it like, oh, he built
the game of basketball into a world game and took
it global, and he's an African American owner, and you
know he had the great image be like Mike and
all that. But let's keep it real. Lebron James has
(09:52):
done far more as players off the court than Jordan.
There's no and and I mean again, maybe whites may
have looked at it differently, don't you know. And I
can't imagine Blacks put Jordan over Lebron. Most of I
don't know, you know, what is it? Is it during
(10:13):
his playing time or entire career because Jordan didn't do
stuff Chris where he opened up the medical center in Charlotte.
He gave money for the UH for both sides, like
the police and the UH. I mean, I hear what
you're saying. And Lebron has done a lot obviously with
his I promised school. Lebron's done, are you you? Rob?
(10:34):
Lebron hasn't done more? I don't know? And make his
mother thing? Is it fresh? The China thing fresh for people?
Nost but most people close, most Americans didn't care about that.
But I'm saying, why do you think it's not closed? Though? Well,
look again, as much as I agree with the pole
(10:56):
and that Jordan is the goat, I think this cheapens
the pole a little bit and it makes it seem like, what, like,
what are people doing? This almost makes it look like
the college pole, the college you know tournament they had
when shot beats Kareem, When didn't Jordan when that? It
(11:16):
probably speaks the rod. I think Jordan wasn't that. If
I'm not mistaken, he was the greatest college. But my right,
this speaks to the myth of Michael Jordan. And again
I'm with you, he's the goat, But Rob, Some of
these are just it could have been twelve five or
(11:36):
thirteen four. Team. Why do you think everybody, why do
you think they abandoned Lebron? In this case, the younger
I think Ron are more well, okay, I'm not talking
about the younger people abandoning him that I think One,
he's far more polarizing. But two and this is what
I was gonna get you earlier, Rob, And this is
(11:58):
maybe I don't know if this were I believe perhaps
the fact that you, like you said it in the beginning,
we saw Jordan's battle, right, he goes to this horrible team.
He's got teammates who are doing drugs, you know, I
mean they don't the GM doesn't want him to play
because they might make the play like. He's fighting every
(12:21):
every which way. He's got obstacles coming his way, right,
and he keeps losing to the Detroit Pistons who are
trying to beat him up. And he sticks there, he
stays and ultimately overcomes. And here seven years just like
Lebron wasn't clear killed, they didn't criticize and I think
(12:42):
people may again maybe hold it that against Lebron, that wow,
Jordan was in a similar situation and he didn't out.
And I've never held it against Lebron. I do think
he sold himself short because I think there I've always
said that that he could have stayed there. Eventually he
(13:04):
was that good Chris, that he was gonna win, and
he panicked, He panicked, and and he could have stayed there.
I'm telling you, if Lebron would have stayed in Cleveland
and one and was three and owen championships doing what
he did in that organization at Town Chris, it would
be a different with his other numbers. It'd be a
different conversation. No, I really and I do think maybe
(13:27):
that's something because you spelled it out early. He said, Look,
he went through all these obstacles. He stuck it out.
It wasn't easy. And I think maybe people look at
like Lebron bail and you know, it worked out and
he got his rings, but you know, the Cleveland ring
means more right than the Miami rings, as good as
those were, and people may look at it like, well,
(13:49):
Jordans stayed in the same place, built that place into
a dynasty. So I think that may be a factor. Robbing.
I think the millennials maybe put you know maybe looked
at that. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Odd Couple with Chris Broussar then Rob Parker weekdays at
seven pm Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the iHeart Radio app. Let's get to another thing
(14:12):
that came out last night, Rob, is that Michael Jordan
was upset that the Bulls were broken up after their
sixth championship in eight years. Here's what he said about
wanting to stick around and go for number seven ninety eight.
Cross already said at the beginning of the season, Phil
(14:32):
can go eighty two and oh and he was never
gonna be the coach. So when Phil said it was
the last dance, it was the last dance. We knew
they weren't going to keep the team. Now, they could
have nixed all of it at the beginning of ninety eight.
Why say that statement at beginning of ninety eight. If
you ask all the guys who won in ninety eight,
(14:52):
Steve Kourge, Boosler, blah blah blah, we give you one
year contract to try foot seven, do you think they
would have signed, Yes, they would signed without signed for
one year. Yes, I would have signed for one year
I've been signing one year contracts up to that with
Phil done it. Yes, now, Pip, you would have to
do some convincing. But if Phil was gonna be there,
then it's just gonna be there. I MJ's gonna be
(15:14):
there to win out seven. Pip is not gonna miss
hunt out on that. All right, Rob, what do you
think Jordan Maker said? Let me let me say this,
Let me say Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead,
No way, no how Mike has revisionist history. And it's
easy to say that after the fact when you got
(15:36):
a pop belly and you got a lot of money,
and you own a team, and you could sit there
and say, oh yeah, I would have signed a one
year deal, and so would have all these other guys.
We just had Chris mannox on him, and I think
his point was well taken about what was at stake
for the other guys who all finally got paid and
(15:57):
got money. This isn't twenty twenty where people scrubs him
making twenty million dollars, Chris, people didn't make the kind
of money that they make now. And the other part is,
I think it's so hard to win. And even Michael,
even before They kept talking about how tired he was
and how worn out he was. And now all of
(16:17):
a sudden, you know, twenty years later, he's talking about,
oh yeah, I was ready. I would have been ready
for another year, another one. I don't believe that they
would have been automatically won again. And I don't think
guys would have joined in. Michael had the sneaker deal,
Michael had off the court money Michael had. Yes, he
(16:39):
could have signed a one year deal. He could have
done it. I don't think the other guys could have
done it. Well. I remember that was the lockout season.
You remember that, and I was covering that lockout for
the New York Times. Jordan wasn't sure of what he
was gonna do, you know, just during the lockout. Remember
he played an instrumental role in that lockout, and there
(17:03):
was always in the negotiations this question of was Jordan
gonna play again? And so I think had Now Jerry
Ryansdorff goes to Phil Jackson and says, we want you
to come back, but we're gonna rebuild. To me, that's,
for lack of a better term, disingenuous. You. Of course,
Phil Jackson didn't want to rebuild after winning six championships,
(17:27):
and of course Michael Jordan didn't want to rebuild. Here's
the deal, right, mean you always say this, and I
agree with this point you make. You're talking about billionaire owners. Okay.
Scottie Pipping, I believe got a five year, sixty seven
million dollars deal with Houston. It was a sign in trade. Okay,
(17:48):
So Chicago signed and traded him. They could have signed
Pipping to a large one year deal. Jordan had been
doing one year deals. Remember you got thirty million in
ninety seven and thirty three million in ninety seven ninety
eight that last year, so they could have done something
similar for Pippo had his bird rights, he could have
(18:09):
got you know, twenty million or something like that. Now
that's not sixty seven million. So we're talking again billionaire owners.
And Jerry Ryan's door fifty wanted two could have given
Pippin a long term deal. Pippin was thirty one years old.
He's gonna turn thirty two in September of that year.
(18:30):
And the next year he played all fifty games or
the lockout season. He averaged forty minutes a game all
fifty games. The next year he played all eighty two.
That's when after that he was a sixty four, sixty two,
sixty four. So then that's my point is this rob
the acrimony that made Pippen want to go, was it necessary?
(18:55):
They could have taken care of Pippen earlier. They could have,
you know, told him, look we're gonna They could have
taken care of him at that point. He didn't have
to be upset if they had been managed correctly, and
if you had, I think what they would have had
to do is you got filled back, You got Mike
back because Phil's there. If they take care of Pipping,
(19:17):
which they should have. He helped you get six titles
for goodness sake, you know, and he's thirty one years old.
He's not forty, he's not thirty five, and then you
wouldn't The guy you probably would have had to replace
was Dennis rob Me. They look, they could lose Luke
Longley and freaking Steve Kerr. They can find a shooter
like Kerr close enough. They always did. B J. Armstrong,
(19:41):
John Paxton, Craig Hodges, Steve Kerry is not unique. They
could have got one of them. And Luke Longley again,
Bill Winnington will Purdue, Bill Cartwright, Stacy King, Bison Daily.
I mean, my goodness, seven foot guys that are good
for a bunch of files can be found anywhere, So
(20:03):
I'm not worried about them. Go get your money, Luke
and Steve. Fine, we could get those. Rodman would have
been the guy. And the question is this, could they have?
Could Phil and Mike have controlled Rodman for one more year?
Because his career was basically over. He goes there later
(20:23):
next year plays twenty three games, and then I think
Dallas the year after that plays twelve. But how much
of that was physical and how much of it was mental? Chicago?
He had acted up in San Antonio before getting to Chicago,
but Chicago they were able to control. I'm not sure
they could have because obviously he was, you know, acting
(20:43):
up in the last year in Chicago, you know, going
to wrestle and going to Vegas and all that stuff.
So maybe during the finals, right right, I think that right? Okay? So,
and I probably would have gone with you on that.
If I was, you know, insition running the bulls, I
probably would have said, you know what, we gotta let
Dennis go. We got three straight he's acting up, we
(21:07):
got the most out of him that we can. But
instead of Jerry Krause putting all his energy into doing
the three side and trades for pipping Longley and Kerr,
how about putting your energy into making a deal that
gets you a replacement for Dennis Robbin. He's not gonna
be as good as Robin, but go get me somebody
(21:27):
that can rebound that's tough, and then bring me some shoes.
Like I just think, yeah, it would have been tough
to do, and like I said, I'm wanting for things
to work out. And Ransdorff could have done it, he's
a billionaire, but they didn't want to. This is a
question though, rob Let's for arguments sake, Let's say they
(21:48):
could have come back. They do you think they could
have gotten to the finals and beaten the San Antonio
Spurs of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Uh No, So
you don't. I just think now, I just think that
that even and they won. I'm not saying that they
didn't win. It wasn't easy. There was a hard four
(22:09):
battles in that series and they and they were able
to win that series against Utah. But I think that
things do come to an end. And they were fortunate
most of the times. Uh when when dynasties or whatever happened,
you know, it's like everything falls apart, it collapses, right,
And they were they were fortunate to just go out
and go out on top. Not very not very often
(22:31):
do people get to do that. And uh, I just
think that the that that championship run had run his course,
that was a lot trying to get out of it.
The Robin thing is a perfect example, Chris, where you know,
here he is during the finals, sneaking off to good
not coming to practice. It's the finals. I get it.
They offered you two hundred and fifty thousand dollars kind
(22:53):
of tells you about the money as well. That he
would take the twenty thousand dollars fine to make two
hundred and thirty thousand, right, Like, Okay, if you were
a basketball playing you were serious about what you were doing,
and you know, can we reschedule that a couple of days?
Is all that you're talking about, Dennis Robin. Do you
think Rodman has ever uttered the words can we reschedule that?
(23:16):
But anyway, But but my point is, I just I
just think it's a vigionist history to think that I
could hear him saying he would like to go. But
I'm I don't think they would win again. That's what
that's Remember, I don't believe that they would win again.
I think they and again I'm talking about a nucleus
of Jackson, Jordan and Pipping and then you know, put
(23:38):
put stuff around them. I think they could have beaten
that Spurs team. Look, remember who got to the finals
in the East, rob it was the Knicks of Latrells,
Fretty Well, Alan Houston, Marcus Canby. I mean they were
an ac they weren't world beaters, so it was a
short beating when you were the one season the Miami Miami.
(24:02):
But that Miami team was, you know, they were all
those teams were pretty good. Indiana the Knicks beat Indiana too,
and you know, and so I think the Bulls team
with Jordan and Pippen would have been better than that
Knicks team. And then you get to the finals. David Robinson, well,
he wasn't the MVP David Robinson anymore. He averaged fewer
(24:25):
than sixteen points a game that season, so he was
not the same Duncan obviously was Duncan a young Duncan
but he was the man. Robinson was fading, and then
you had Avery Johnson, Jaren Jackson and Sean Elliott on
the perimeter. I mean, I do think the Bulls it
(24:46):
would have been tough to bring him back, but I
think they could have won that championship. And here's what
I say, whether they could have or not, I believe
rob there's one of two ways for dynasties to end,
or they should in this way. Either you get beat
on the court or on the field, or you're some
(25:06):
key member of your nucleus. And I'm talking about like
the first best player really or maybe the second walks
away because of age, like Kareem. When Kareem retired from showtime,
he was forty two years old. It was age he
had to go. That's how I think it shouldn't. I
just think it's a shame. It'd be one thing if
(25:28):
Jordan was like, I don't want to play anymore. But
I think it's a shame for in fighting and politics
in the front office. And let's keep it real. Jerry
Reinsdorf is ultimately the blame because he's the owner and
caused the shots. But the only thing is I think
that is I don't think anybody believes that they got
(25:48):
cheated by that Bulls dynasty. I think that they nobody
agree with that. Would you like nobody goes oh man,
I mean it was premature. I know nobody got cheated.
I think people look at that and marvel out of two.
I think I think Jordan feels like he said he
said last night, though he still can't get over it
(26:13):
and get over anything. Though. He can't get over the
guy beat him out of the high school and on
his high school team. He can't get over his high
school coach. He can't get over the pizza guy in Utah.
He can't get over anything, can't get its aid Thomas.
He can't get robbed. That's what drove him to bed.
But joya life a little bit. Here's the thing, right,
(26:35):
he still had basketball lefted him. You know this because
three years later he came back. It was actually good.
He wasn't great. He was a legitimate All Star, but
he was still with rob was he still not the
best player in the world. Nah, But he couldn't motor.
He couldn't get those guys to what They couldn't even
make the playoffs where sixteen of the thirty teams made
(26:55):
the playoff, but that was three years later. I'm talking
about saying, no matter how he back, I'm talking about
had he come back in ninety eight, ninety nine, the
year he retired, he was still the best player in
the world. How does that make sense. I'm running an organization.
We got the best coach in the world, we got
the best player in the world. We didn't even go seven.
(27:19):
We went six games in the five. I mean all
this they got pushed the rink. They were up three one.
But wait a minute, but but the same the same
argument you're making, that would be the argument on how
come Lebron hasn't won If he's the best player in
the world, with what he's had around him, he wasn't
able to win. I'm just saying it ain't that orm. No,
(27:40):
of course, Up and other teams were getting better. I
know why they didn't want it, Chris. They were making money.
That building was sold out for the next three years probably,
and they would They didn't want to pay. They wanted
to start over, and they wanted to not pay. I mean,
that's the reason that they really didn't want it. I agree,
(28:01):
and I don't. I don't think that was no, but
it was a financial thing. They were like, I agree,
we can sell out this building for the next people
still gonna come. They got season tickets, we'll make money.
We got a lower payroll, and we don't have to
deal with all that. I'm I agree with that, but
I just think that's a shameful way for a dynasty
(28:22):
to end. Let them get beat. Jordan said it at
the beginning of the series. Remember I guess it was
after their fifth ring. I believe when he said, I
believe we should have the right to defend what we've built.
Remember that, and he said the Cubs been rebuilding for
forty two years, which is actually longer, much longer than that.
But Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup
(28:45):
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox
Sports Radio dot com and within the iHeart Radio app
search f SR to listen live. We start off the
show talking about this ESPN poll where they had seventeen
different categories comparing Michael Jordan and Lebron James, and they
pulled people from ages eighteen on up eighteen to thirty
(29:07):
five and then thirty five and above, or I think
maybe maybe it was thirty five to fifty four. But anyway,
Jordan one in all seventeen categories, even amongst the young folk,
the millennials, and we you and I both believe that
the documentary did influence some of the younger people to
(29:31):
start thinking that Jordan is the goat over Lebron. One
guy it didn't influence was a former and Lebron team
make Channing Fry, And here's what he had to say,
not gonna lie. I wasn't a Jordan fan. I'm from Phoenix.
I'm a Barclay guy. I'm a Kevin Johnson guy. I'm
a thunder Dan guy. So as much as everyone's shocked,
(29:54):
I never had Jordan, I'm my top player of all time. Anyways,
Tim Duncan, I had Koge. I have Lebron all time.
He only had really one job, and that was to
just score, and he did that at an amazing, amazing rate.
But I don't feel like his way of winning then
would translate to what it is now. Guys wouldn't want
(30:16):
to play with him. Hello, shot, is this Channing French Fry? Hello,
he's in too much Chris, go oil right now, Chris,
because I don't get what are he's talking about. I
get it. You play with Lebron. Okay, you can respect,
(30:37):
you could admire him, I get it. How in the
world could you say that? I just don't even know
on what basis that A guy who pushes you to
get the best out of you, who competes, who never
cheats anybody. Chris puts it all out on the floor.
That's what a teammate. It supposed to be, right, And
you got a chance to win every year? Hello, where
(30:58):
do I sign up? And then the guy you're talking about,
Lebron and defending and I get it. Your friends, can
we give you Lebron's history? Kyrie won a championship with Lebron.
Wanted out. You had a chance to get Kawhi Leonard,
(31:19):
which would have made his life a lot easier in LA.
He would have got to play in his hometown LA
with Lebron, with Anthony Davis probably could have missed as
many games as he wanted to the next three years,
Chris and probably would have won three championships in the row. Right, Probably,
you're right, If they I'm serious, they probably would have
(31:42):
ye all right, he wanted no part of it. And
it's the same thing Paul George, who had two chances
to play with Lebron, same kind of thing, and didn't
didn't take either opportunity. So before you go out and
run out and talk about nobody would want to play
with Jordan, I totally disagree. I think that this is
(32:05):
one of those where you can praise Lebron and you
could say what a great teammate he was and do
all that, But to go out there publicly and say that,
like there was something wrong with playing with Michael and
didn't you watch it? Steve Kerr talked about it. Not
only did him and Michael get into a little fish
(32:26):
to cops, but he also wound up believing in Steve
Kerr and passing him the ball in big moments. I
just Chris is so off base. I don't. I just don't.
I don't get the allegiance to be that much to
be anti Jordan. You could say I much rather play
with Lebron and give his reasons why, But to say
(32:47):
nobody would want to play with Jordan, I disagree. Yeah,
I agree with you. I disagree with Channing. And it's
just bad history number one. To say that all Jordan
did was score, well, it is ludicrous, all right. Obviously
he was the best score we've ever seen. He led
the league in scoring essentially ten straight years, you know,
(33:08):
ten straight years when he was healthy and played full seasons.
And Rob Michael Jordan had six seasons or seven seasons
if you round up, you know which we're taught to do,
seven seasons where he averaged six assists the game. For
his career, he averaged five point three. Now, I've only
(33:31):
looked at a few guys, but that's better than Minnu Jenoble.
Minu Genoble averaged three point eight assist for his career.
Tracy McGrady, whose viewed as an all around player, he
averaged four point four assists for his career. Would you
ever you think Channon Fry would ever say about Tracy
McGrady or Minnu Genoble All they had to do was score. No,
(33:54):
just ridiculous. And yet Jordan averaged more assist than them.
And Rob. Of course you notice he was a nine
time All defensive player. Hello, not two, not three, nine times?
Stop it chanting, stop it, I mean, it's it's just look,
and I've said this, you don't have to tear down
(34:18):
one of the guys to build up or not. That's
what I just Sai, am, I right, That's what I said.
If you want to if you want to praise Lebron
as a teammate, Chris, do it. But to say nobody
would want to play with Jordan when when the exact opposite,
If anything, Lebron has been turned down more than anybody.
Nobody wanted to come to Cleveland, right, so he went
(34:39):
to Miami. Right, I mean, those are facts that I'm
making it up, making it up. I mean, I look,
you're stronger than nobody wants to play with him. I
obviously think more players wanted to play with him than
you do. But there's no doubt guys have turned him down,
There's no question about that. And I think and one
of the reasons Rob, I think maybe the rules could
(35:01):
have come back in one seven is because I do
think had they been able to offer some you know,
some minimum deals, some vets in search of a ring
would have gone to play with Michael Jordan, you know,
to replace Kerr and long Lean guys like that. So
but yeah, to say nobody would have wanted to play
with Jordan is just that's just off. So what I
(35:22):
want to do, Rob, and you and I both think
that Jordan's the goat. I want to present, let's present why,
and then I want to hear from Lebron fans. And
we both look, we both give Lebron major respect. He's
the we second on both of our lists, so we're
not dissinging, and we don't agree on a lot of stuff.
(35:43):
So exactly so, I'm gonna share why Jordan is the goal,
and we want to hear from callers, mainly guys that
think Lebron's the goal. We want to hear your your answer,
your argument. I'm gonna say, try to say it quickly.
Rob First of all, Jordan had no weaknesses, none like there's.
(36:03):
He could pass, he could defend, he could shoot, he
could drive three pointers. Obviously he didn't shoot a lot
of them, but it wasn't a weakness at that time.
And even if you want to just go off the percentage,
he shot the same percentage thirty two point seven Kobe
was thirty two point nine. Do we ever look at
(36:23):
Kobe and say three pointers were a weakness. No, So
at the very time, it wasn't a weakness. If you
want to say it wasn't a strength, okay, it wasn't
a weakness. Jordan didn't have any. Lebron, as great as
he is, has some weaknesses, most notably the free throw shooting.
That's a weakness and he's not terrible, but he's not
(36:43):
really good at it either, and it becomes it can
become an issue, and it seems like doing crunch time too,
like you know what I mean, like when you really
need to knock him down. Yeah. I don't know if
he's missed more during crust. I mean, he's just not
you know, he's seventy three basic or seven four percent
for his career. It's okay, you know, but it can
become a weakness. He doesn't move well without the basketball.
(37:07):
That can make it tougher to play with other stars
because he has to have the ball in his hands
all the time. And then I think he doesn't really
have a goal to shot, you know that that you know,
at the end of games, it's always it's either to
the basket all the way or the long three. So
I think those are minor weaknesses in Lebron's game. I
(37:27):
think Jordan doesn't have any. I also think that the
longevity argument, which is a strength for Lebron, typically in
his argument against Jordan, the thing is you gotta start winning,
you gotta win more, like, because at some point that
longevity could become a negative. Jordan won six rings in
(37:49):
fifteen years. He was hurt for one of those years,
essentially the whole year and one he only played eighteen
games because of baseball. If you take those out, that
six and thirteen. If you take out the old Man
years in Washington, that's six and eleven. Either way you
want to measure it, it's six and eleven or six
and fifteen. Lebron's got three and sixteen. If Lebron has
(38:12):
two more great seasons, which he's fully capable of, but
doesn't win rings, you're talking about Rob three and nineteen years.
That is not impressing. Magic won five and twelve. Essentially,
Bird won three and I believe thirteen. Like, if you
(38:33):
don't win more, the longevity could work against you. Finally,
I'll say this Rob the super Team. A lot of
people say Lebron's in the super team era and that's
why he had won more because he's faced super teams. Yeah,
but he also was on super teams. That's the thing.
Like Miami was the super team and they only won
two out of four, and the Cleveland him Kyrie and
(38:56):
Kevin Love. That's a super team. Kyrie's clearly all of famer.
Love was putting up numbers, right, numbers. Before he got there,
he was running of nothing but numbers. So that those
are some things where I just think Jordan's ahead of it.
When I look at it, it's very clear and Lebron
(39:18):
has all these numbers and stats, Chris you cannot deny,
and he could pass Kareem Abdul Jabbar and I get
all that. But when you're looking at when we talk
about being the goat, we always look at we're gonna
nitpick and look at everything. And the one thing that
you can't nitpick with Michael Jordan is he didn't just win.
He would He led the league and scoring ten times.
(39:40):
You met it was a defensive player to your defensive
first team. What nine years was the number all these
all defense nine times? So when you look at that,
he did a lot of stuff, but he also won.
That's the other part. It wasn't like one or the other.
He did everything. So so when I look at it,
the winning to me matters because I think ultimately that's
(40:04):
why you play. So yes, you can, you can, you
can win MVPs. You could do all this other stuff,
but ultimately, did you win when it was all said
and done, and he checks all those boxes and he
wasn't on the on the on the bandwagon and somebody
else was leading the way and Scottie Pippen won two
(40:25):
finals MVPs. Do you know what I mean? Like like,
you can't do that, You can't tag Jordan for that.
That that would to me if if he won six
championships and Scottie won three MVPs, we got a different conversation,
don't we, Chris. Yeah, it's certainly opening it up to
other people beat him, compete with him, That's what I'm saying.
(40:46):
But but here is this's open and shut. So when
I look at everything and I nippicked through everything, it's
hard for me to look at Michael Jordan and go
somebody was better than him, especially not Braun, who yes,
got to the finals a lot, but didn't win enough.
And you're right the super team building that and not
(41:08):
really being special. They should have won at least three
in a row, Chris. They would have put themselves in
a special class right with a handful of guys who
had done it. They couldn't even do that with a
stacked team, and then you can't argue that, well, it's
not fair because the Warriors are stacked. And no, you
(41:29):
started Facebook. I mean you started MySpace and the Warriors
started Facebook, right, but you started it so you can't
be mad at it after the fact.
Hosts And Creators
Rob Parker
kelvin washington
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