May 3, 2019 • 27 mins
It's the best of The Odd Couple with Chris Broussard and Rob Parker! The guys get into a heated argument over whether or not Joel Embiid has the potential of being one of the best big men of all time when his career ends. Phoenix Suns GM James Jones joins the show to discuss the acquisition of Monty Williams as the team's new head coach. Chris and Rob also talk about LeBron and the optics of his open recruitment of Kawhi Leonard.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of The Odd
Couple with Chris, Bruce Shard and Rob Harker. Let's get
to what Mark Jackson said last night about Joel Embiid.
He said that, look, MBA had a huge game, thirty
three points, ten rebounds, five blocks. It's only the heat
(00:45):
that's It's the second time this postseason that he has
done that in a game. Now, check this out. It
had only been done one other time. A thirty ten
and five game had only been done one other time
(01:06):
in the last ten postseasons. Rob, think about that, this guy,
Joel mb did something, has done something twice already that
only had happened once in the last ten years of
NBA basketball. VA's number one. We know the God's challenge.
(01:28):
The second thing. The second thing is this though, Rob,
he had the thirty three points, the ten rebounds, and
the five block shots in twenty eight minutes. No player
in NBA history has reached those numbers in less than
(01:48):
thirty minutes ever. Wow, think about that. So Mark Jackson,
who called the game last night, he had this to
say about Joel Embi. It will be a will be
a leagus game, barring any injury, not being compared to
the best big rand that's ever played this game. He
(02:09):
gotta be in that discussion. It'd be a crime if
he leaves the game. And that's not the case. The brakes, no,
your brakes are you No, We're not gonna do that
to Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Wild Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neil,
A team alive one, David Popaton's had to kill your pikes.
(02:30):
The evidence is in front of us, barring injury. I'm
not knocking how great you can be, but don't compare
him yet to the all time greats. Craik Papa that
just rolled over in Benne. You just scare steps right now,
you skip steps. I'm telling the truth. I'm not ready
to go. But the guy who hony helping games as
he played regular chief and games as he played and
(02:52):
playoff games. Barring injury, he's got to produce for a
long period of time. That was Larry Jeff Van Gundi
rolled over in his bed. I know he wanted to
say great, but obviously he's not dead yet, so good catch.
I'm with van Gundi. I stop it with van Gundi. One.
(03:12):
We are so prisoner of the moment where you want
to crown people. He didn't want to. He didn't crown he. No,
Van Gundi was saying, he's a challenged guy. Pumped the
brakes before we start giving this guy all these accolades,
that he's better than all these great plays, better than
Kareem abdul Jabar. He didn't say that. Did you in
the world what he said? What did he say? He
(03:33):
didn't say it was better than you don't need you
don't need to put all that out there that if
he ain't in the conversation by the time, that's something wrong. No,
Rob obviously didn't hear it. Rob, don't play play it again.
Don't play being compared. He saying, barring injury, it will
(03:59):
be a crime time if he leaves the game and
is not comparing. You know, in the conversation for one
of the greatest big man that ever played a game.
What's wrong with that? It's premature. That's the read the league.
If people were mentioning him as a potential Michael Jordan,
(04:19):
it was premature. That it was premature. Nobody didn't know
what's gonna happen. And also, baby Jordan, what was his name?
He was supposed to be the Harold Minder was supposed
to be the next Compare Harrold Minder to Joel him. No,
all I'm saying was everybody called him Baby Jordan. He
was supposed to be this next great thing. I could
go on and on and on about players. Stop with
(04:42):
the post read on the moment, just because of God's play.
Had a cup of coffee in the sweet roll in
the NBA. He's gonna be the greatest next thing. Stopping first,
let him, let him do it first, let him stay
healthy for three or four years. First of all, the
cup of coffee in this week roll references getting know
it all right? God? Can't they just have a light.
(05:05):
He and I don't understood. Why is it always gotta
be a cup of coffee in a sweet roll? I
turned it at smooth in the apple he's got a
smooth in an apple and something, dude? Is that? That's
number one? I'm where I gotta go a cup of
coffee in the sweet roll. That doesn't get better? To know,
it gets better that beans. It was a short amount
of time, doesn't it, I know? But get something else.
(05:27):
They can eat something else, all right. That's number one.
Number two is that Harold Minor was called Baby Jordan
because of the way he dunked, not because people thought
he was gonna be as good as Michael Jordan. It
is we always compare place had. People are comparing Zion
Williamson to Lebron James already he hadn't even played a
(05:50):
minute in the league, which I agree is ridiculous. But
when Lebron came in the league, there were people talking
about this is the next Michael Jordan, and so on
and so forth. It happens, and Joel Embiid has been
a monster in his short NBA career. I agree with
Mark Jackson. If he doesn't get injured, and that's a
(06:13):
big if, but barring injury, if he is not one
viewed as one of these all time great centers at
the end of his career, shame on embead, that's all.
He said. Got the talent, he's got the versatility, but
he has all the other life. But he has all
the things that you hate when you're talking about a
(06:34):
big man, you're talking about feet problem. He's talk about
back from a barring injury. He didn't say with you know,
he threw that in there because his history so far
is about those things. That's why I'm just saying it's
so premature. I would love if Mark Jackson said this
three years from now, when he played every game for
the last three years and put up incredible numbers and
(06:54):
turned the corner away from injuries and missing games. He's
always doubtful, questionable every night. How in the world can
he be that guy every single night? He's questionable. He
played sixty four games this season. They played eighty two
in the NBA sixty three last season they played. Shaquille
O'Neill in thirteen of his eighteen seasons played fewer games
(07:20):
than NBA. That's why nobody's there one of them. That's all.
He's not one of the greatest big men of what
I'm saying. That's why Mark Jackson said. If he's not
in the conversation as one of them. Hump the breaks
star he averaged fteen point six rebounds again, Hold on, no,
(07:40):
I'm gonna I'm gonna bring it to you. He averaged
thirteen point six rebounds a game this year. Shaquille O'Neill
averaged more than that one time in his all time
great career once once. So don't tell me. Joe lmbad
is it one pace if he stays healthy to be
(08:04):
an all time great player? And how many yeah, and
how many rebounds of Shock average in the four championships
that he won along the way? Can you give me those?
Give me? I know the first three average about fifteen
or okay, good, thank you, and they got to do
with anything none. You're giving me some irrelevant stats a
(08:25):
yearly sas averaged for your career? Who did it? In
the final? Shock was a monster in his father I
didn't get to the finals till deep into his NBA
career he went, he didn't win the finals. In fact,
that was Nick Anderson's problems. I'm glad we bring it
with and I'm glad we're bringing up Shock because remember
(08:49):
it was just shocks fifth year in the league. He
wasn't even finished with his fifth year. Midway through his
fifth year in the league, he was named one of
the top fifty players of all time. Now I know
he definitely is one of the top fifty players of
all time, so there's no could be one of the
top ten. But not in his fifth year. According to you,
(09:12):
it was premature. It wasn't premature because he had already
been to a final. Didn't want anything, but he wont
your whole argument, you know anything. But he went to
the finals in his first with his first five years
on last, that's impressive. Did he win? Nick Anderson would
have made some free throws. It could have changed everything.
I came alive. The wine served him lunch every scene
(09:33):
the game, and you know it. That ain't why they lost.
Nick Anderson's the reason I came out of this game.
So stop it. I just caught you. You didn't catch me.
I see your hand shaking. You know it's didn't robbed.
There is nothing wrong with what Mark Jackson said. He said,
(09:56):
if he doesn't get hurt, and he didn't even say
he's on pace to be one of the all time
great centers. He just said, if he's not in that
conversation when he's done playing, then shame on him. It's
a crime, and he's right. If Joel Mby stays healthy
and does not get into conversation with all those great centers,
(10:18):
then it is a crime. He sold himself short. He
didn't live up to his potential. He didn't work hard enough,
he didn't shed the pounds to stay healthy. There's no
peer of his. He's got an advantage over all the
other greats because there's nobody else in the league like him.
Even Shack who later in his career was like that,
(10:40):
but he had allnes Old Morning, Patrick ewing A, Kim Elijahwan.
As we mentioned, he played against some great centers early
in his career. Who's Joel mb gotta face Nicola Yoki
who is a great center, nobody type of center, not
a banger. So you'll agree with me, No, I don't agree.
(11:01):
I just you just be a contrary. No I'm not.
Don't you watch when you know the thing? Every time
I have a different opion, I'm I'm a contrary every time.
I can't do that to me. You can't pay me
with that brush. There I'm saying you're a contraryan or.
You just know I always agree with Mark Jackson, but
but you. But maybe you're just agree and agree because
you like him. No, you know what I mean. No,
(11:24):
I'm saying, don't make me out. Don't make out that
I'm agree with. No, I don't agree. Just like the
other day when you agree with me or I can't
even remember the topic. You clearly agreed, but you say,
Jeff van Gunn, he's a contrarian too, right, he's just
doing it to Jeff is just wrong. Jeff is just wrong.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
(11:44):
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker week days at seven
pm Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the iHeart Radio app. We are excited to be joined
by our next guests. He is the general manager of
the Phoenix Suns. Played in the NBA for the Indiana Pacers,
Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Layers, Miami Heat, and Cleveland Cavaliers
(12:07):
that won three championships. It is James Jones. James, Welcome
to the man. Thanks for having me, guys. Man, I
played for a lot of teams. Man, I didn't realize. Hey,
you got three rings with you. Well done, job, well done,
speaking the jobs well done. This was one of your
first you know, big moves as the general manager there
(12:28):
in Phoenix. You hired Money Williams as your head coach.
What was it about Monty that made you feel like
he's the right guy for the job. I mean, well,
he's the right guy, um, because he is that guy.
And what I mean is he talked to anyone in
the business, anyone in the industry, anyone that's played with him,
any of the players that he's coached, uh, that he
(12:48):
has coached, anyone he's coached with, and they'll tell you
that he's an A plus individual. And so when you're
coming off of kind of the law that we've had
as an organization, which you need A plus individuals, So
you stack, you stack his coaching ability, his acumen, his
experience on top of that, and you find for me
the ideal candidate to lead the Signs. Uh he got
(13:10):
a five year deal that's the going rate for coaches nowadays.
Or just like you just made a commitment to him
that this is the guy you really believe in, and uh,
you're just gonna kind of go from there. No. I mean,
when you when you find someone you truly believe in,
you you know you you make it um you do right,
and just knowing we've had challenges with stability, you know
(13:32):
as well documented the number of coaches we've had, the
number of players we've had, I just thought there's no
better way than to show commitment to us, and I
mean commitment to him, and then for him to show
a commitment to us by deciding to come to Phoenix
for five years. And I know you didn't hire Igor,
but uh, and I'm not asking you to bash him
or anything, but one year seems I don't know if
(13:55):
it's fair or unfair or does It just gets to
a point sometimes where you realize you just got to
make a change and then somebody different or you know,
better out there that you think can move the franchise
where you go. What's the thinking in a one year coach?
I would just say it's different. You know that that's
you know for different teams, you know, the plans change,
(14:17):
a different situation requires you to think differently. And knowing
that you know the guys we had coming back and
potentially to pick that we'll have earlier this year, the
direction of the team um was something different than than
than the year prior, and I just thought it was
best for us to go and find someone who totally
matched you know, the identity we're trying to create, our
(14:37):
identity of the government and identity of consistency. And more importantly,
we need to find someone um that had the experience
to lead us through this tough time. James, you guys
are one of the three teams that has a great
shot of getting the number one picking the draft. Most
executives are saying that Zion Williamson is a clear cut
(14:58):
number one. But you guys have a need for a
point guard. And obviously John Morand is out there and
he's you know, everybody's wild by him. Is your philosophy
best player, Let's just take the best player regardless of
position or let me feel this need, this position need,
because that's what we need for the team to move forward. Well,
(15:20):
where everything we'll do will be based on what's best
for the Suns. And you know you talk about the
players at the top of the draft, you know that's
the lotteries a lottery. You don't know where your draft.
You have to do your work for every prospect, but
for our team, you know, we have a lot of
areas of need, and so you know we'll have to
determine which player is best for us with this group,
(15:41):
you know everything, We'll have a coach, we'll have mantis
input on it. You know, it'll be an organization decision
because you know this is You know that that that pick,
whoever it is, you expect them to be a foundational
piece for your franchise. So um, you just have to
make sure it works, it fits, and that you're in
a position to help them reach their potential. It's the
I couple. We're joined by James Jones, the Phoenix Suns
(16:03):
general manager. Well, what's really happened in Phoenix? And I'm
not asking you to solve all everything that went wrong
has gone wrong in Phoenix, but it would seem like,
you know, a great destination. You guys have had a
lot of top picks over the last few years because
things haven't gone right. But yet there's still no turning
of the corner or winning. How do you get that corrected?
(16:25):
If you keep getting you know, good players, but you
still haven't been able to win games. Well, I think
I'll say that you know, winning is hard. You know,
there's no there's no simple fix. Like I'm I'm not
proposing to get a coach. You get a couple of
players and you mix it together and you start winning.
You know, winning in the process, and it's a process
that has to occur daily. I think for us, we
(16:48):
we just had multiple We should focused multiple times. You know,
we were inconsistent as to who we were, who we
who who, who we identified as Suns players. You know,
we were and consistent how we developed that talent. But
most importantly, I think we were just inconsistent and our
approach to building a team. And so I'm trying to
get away from talent acquisition, talent accumulation, talent identification. We're
(17:13):
talking more about building the culture and building the team.
And I think when you have that type of vision,
it's clear to see the type of player that you
need to win. James last question. You play with Lebron,
James in Cleveland, when you guys won that championship in
twenty sixteen. You always hear about stories Lebron's trying to
run the franchise, Lebron's the general manager, Lebron's making the trades,
(17:35):
he's coaching the team and all that. First of all,
what is it like, what what's the real deal when
you play with Lebron is all that false? Does some
of that go on? Does he you know, run everything? Like,
just tell me what it's like to play with him?
And then too, what was the dynamic like between him
and to Ryn Lou who looks like he may be
the Laker's next coach. I mean, he's an amazing player,
(17:57):
and he's arguably the greatest player of all time. And
when you have that, there are certain things that that
people kind of push on you. All I can say
is that you know, he thinks basketball first. That's the
only thing he cares about is winning and the production
on the court. And if you ask him a question,
he's going to give you his opinion. Whether or not
people take it and run with it, that's on them.
(18:20):
But I've only known him as a guy that's all
about winning, about team and about respecting his coaches. And
so I think you've seen that he had to ultimate
trust and the coaches that believe in him, and he
did some great things in Cleveland, and I hope that
you know he continues some great things from him here
(18:40):
on out. All Right, James, great chef man. We appreciate it,
Good luck moving forward. Thanks guys, to appreciate it. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple with
Chris Broussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm Eastern
four pm Pacific. Lebron is busy, even though he he's
out of the spotlight right now because he's not in
(19:02):
the playoffs. He's busy though on social media. There's no
zero dark thirty twenty three now because you know, he
doesn't have to do that since they're not in the playoffs.
And a little subtle recruiting already going on one of
Kawhi Leonard Lebron. This was a few days ago, Rob
g Right, he posted an emoji of a hand. That's it,
(19:28):
and everybody's saying, has it in the middle. It was
in the middle of a Raptors game, so everybody took
it like you're recruiting Kawhi Leonard. Now you could in reality,
maybe he's just giving him love. Maybe he's just saying, hey,
great game by Kawhi. But it's subtle recruitment in the
(19:49):
eyes of just about everyone. And then Maverick Carter, Lebron's
business manager, he tweet and you know, now become a
business mogul, media mogul. He tweet eat it out that
Kawhi Leonard is playing like Michael Jordan, So the feeling
is that they are beginning to turn it on. In
(20:11):
terms of recruiting. Kawhi. Lebron said in an interview with
Rachel Nichols on ESPN a few months ago that he
is going to be out there recruiting hard. Can I
give you a start ahead? Pathetic? That's what Lebron looks like. Seriously,
why Chris you want to consider one of the greatest
who ever played the game? It seems so desperate that
(20:34):
Lebron has to do it publicly, publicly. Why are you
doing it publicly? Why can't you just decide to yourself, Hey,
pick up the phone, Hey you want to have lunch,
come to my house so that people don't, you know
what I mean, know what's going on. It just feels
so weird that Lebron would be in that position where
(20:56):
he feels like he has to get help and he
has to do a pub you know what. I'm with you,
what it's just it's just a bad shocking, It's a
it's a bad look. Like you said, you are, in
some people's mind, is the greatest player to ever play
the game. Oh, man, you are still arguably the greatest
player in the world. Don't pander to these guys, right,
(21:21):
That's what I don't understand. Why are you doing this? No,
because it's gonna make it look even worse. What number one,
it's just a bad look in general. You're above that.
But another thing is it's gonna make it look worse
if they don't go. If you've been out there, That's
why I didn't think he should have been out there
talking about, Yeah, I'm gonna be recruiting. I'm gonna be
recruiting everybody. You know. No, do it. You can do
(21:42):
it on the slide. We know you know all these guys.
You cool with all these guys. Just call Kawai hey man,
great game the other night. After the season, Let's talk
that dinner whatever. That's all it is. Don't make it public.
You don't have to make a big deal about it,
saying hey, definitely interested in talking to The season is
all over. Let's make that happen, right, that's it. That's
(22:04):
all you have to do, you know. And I know, Look,
these guys, they grew up in the social media era.
They're used to putting everything out there. We talked about
it with Kevin Durant and all that, but it's still
not a good look. It makes you look a little
bit desperate, you know, and then they think it makes
them look a lot desperate. And that's a shame because
(22:26):
Lebron shouldn't be in that situation. He really shouldn't. That
They should have go between Chris other people reaching out
for him, meeting people privately, making phone calls privately. He
don't need to go out there like, please please come
play with me. I can't get anybody to come play
with me, even if it's the case. It just seems weird, right,
(22:49):
even if it's the case. I'm surprised Lebron doesn't see
that though. That's the thing. He's very media savvy, you know,
he's very calculated about out what he does. Why don't
you see that? Maybe maybe it is he's just so
desperate and he understands that the chances of getting somebody
(23:09):
isn't and so I have to go all out to
tell them, Hey, I really want you, can you can
you come my way? I really want you? And it's
side I'll tell you this. I want to see Lebron
and I get it. He's had these experiences I've said
it before. I think when he was first in Cleveland
(23:29):
at first go round, he didn't recruit, He didn't beg
for players to come play with him. He was all
in on what he had, role players Delonte West, Moe Williams,
and older Anton Jamison Zai drew nisial goals because Anderson
ver gall and he believed in those guys. He believed
(23:51):
that they could win, and they won big sixty six games,
sixty one games. Then when they got to the playoffs,
they always were beaten by a team with more stars.
And then Lebron of course puts a get together a
star Laton team in Miami and wins two out of four.
Then he's got some stars with him in his return
(24:12):
to Cleveland and wins. So now it seems like he
doesn't even he feels like, you gotta have I need
other stars to win. He knows the history of the game,
he's a student of the game, and he feels like
Magic never wanted without Korean, but Bird had got You know,
everybody had guys for the most part. There have been
a few exceptions, but even this is where this is
(24:33):
the problem with Lebron. This is what he did during
the season to wreck the whole season. He went out
publicly without another star. But I know what's gonna happen.
But I understand what I'm saying publicly. It didn't come
off fright. No him doing it publicly and Rob. What
(24:55):
I'd say is this Lebron he's gotta get rid of
at me mentality. Like next year, if it's the worst
case scenario and you don't get anybody, I think at
the very least you'll get a Jimmy Butler and or
a Kimba Walker. But let's say you don't get another
big name. You have to go with your team. You
(25:17):
have and say, look, this is what I got, this
is what I'm rolling with, and we can win. I'm
you have to rid yourself of that mentality that man,
we can't. We ain't gonna win it. Right, even if
that becomes the case, go out there and say I
(25:37):
hate to be look I put on we put on
our pads just like they put one lad at the time.
You're the best player in the world. Are Arguably it
sounds elementary, but I'm with you. I think you do
have to in order for the guys that you have,
for them to get some confidence and on what they're
doing and for them to feel a part of it,
especially after what happened last year, right and Rob you
(26:00):
know this, You never know. You never know. A player
could get injured on another team. Injuries have always played
a big role in you know, NBA playoff, the championships
or heck, you might just be that good, you know.
I mean we're looking around, well, he's getting older. Well,
(26:21):
and we're seeing again, Lebron. I'm not saying he's necessarily
wrong for feeling like you. For the most part, these
stars Kawhi Leonard, no other stars around him. You see
what's happening. Now, we'll see if they can overcome it.
Yanni's ante ukom Ball, you know, not really another a
second star. We'll see how far they can go. But
Kyrie does. He's got some young guys that are budding.
(26:44):
But people think the Lakers have young guys that are buddy.
I mean, you have to just have the mentality that
this is what I have to go to war with
we can win. Damian Lillard has that. Now he's not
winning championships, but hey, that's what that's the mentality you
have to have. And certainly when you're the best player
or in the conversation. As the best player in the world,
(27:05):
you've got to have that mentality and stop being so needy.
It's always like, you know, it just seems like like
you're that guy. So, yeah, you want some other people,
and I get it, but it just seems kind of desperate.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching f
(00:21):
s R. You're listening to the Best of The Odd
Couple with Chris, Bruce Shard and Rob Harker. Let's get
to what Mark Jackson said last night about Joel Embiid.
He said that, look, MBA had a huge game, thirty
three points, ten rebounds, five blocks. It's only the heat
(00:45):
that's It's the second time this postseason that he has
done that in a game. Now, check this out. It
had only been done one other time. A thirty ten
and five game had only been done one other time
(01:06):
in the last ten postseasons. Rob, think about that, this guy,
Joel mb did something, has done something twice already that
only had happened once in the last ten years of
NBA basketball. VA's number one. We know the God's challenge.
(01:28):
The second thing. The second thing is this though, Rob,
he had the thirty three points, the ten rebounds, and
the five block shots in twenty eight minutes. No player
in NBA history has reached those numbers in less than
(01:48):
thirty minutes ever. Wow, think about that. So Mark Jackson,
who called the game last night, he had this to
say about Joel Embi. It will be a will be
a leagus game, barring any injury, not being compared to
the best big rand that's ever played this game. He
(02:09):
gotta be in that discussion. It'd be a crime if
he leaves the game. And that's not the case. The brakes, no,
your brakes are you No, We're not gonna do that
to Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Wild Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neil,
A team alive one, David Popaton's had to kill your pikes.
(02:30):
The evidence is in front of us, barring injury. I'm
not knocking how great you can be, but don't compare
him yet to the all time greats. Craik Papa that
just rolled over in Benne. You just scare steps right now,
you skip steps. I'm telling the truth. I'm not ready
to go. But the guy who hony helping games as
he played regular chief and games as he played and
(02:52):
playoff games. Barring injury, he's got to produce for a
long period of time. That was Larry Jeff Van Gundi
rolled over in his bed. I know he wanted to
say great, but obviously he's not dead yet, so good catch.
I'm with van Gundi. I stop it with van Gundi. One.
(03:12):
We are so prisoner of the moment where you want
to crown people. He didn't want to. He didn't crown he. No,
Van Gundi was saying, he's a challenged guy. Pumped the
brakes before we start giving this guy all these accolades,
that he's better than all these great plays, better than
Kareem abdul Jabar. He didn't say that. Did you in
the world what he said? What did he say? He
(03:33):
didn't say it was better than you don't need you
don't need to put all that out there that if
he ain't in the conversation by the time, that's something wrong. No,
Rob obviously didn't hear it. Rob, don't play play it again.
Don't play being compared. He saying, barring injury, it will
(03:59):
be a crime time if he leaves the game and
is not comparing. You know, in the conversation for one
of the greatest big man that ever played a game.
What's wrong with that? It's premature. That's the read the league.
If people were mentioning him as a potential Michael Jordan,
(04:19):
it was premature. That it was premature. Nobody didn't know
what's gonna happen. And also, baby Jordan, what was his name?
He was supposed to be the Harold Minder was supposed
to be the next Compare Harrold Minder to Joel him. No,
all I'm saying was everybody called him Baby Jordan. He
was supposed to be this next great thing. I could
go on and on and on about players. Stop with
(04:42):
the post read on the moment, just because of God's play.
Had a cup of coffee in the sweet roll in
the NBA. He's gonna be the greatest next thing. Stopping first,
let him, let him do it first, let him stay
healthy for three or four years. First of all, the
cup of coffee in this week roll references getting know
it all right? God? Can't they just have a light.
(05:05):
He and I don't understood. Why is it always gotta
be a cup of coffee in a sweet roll? I
turned it at smooth in the apple he's got a
smooth in an apple and something, dude? Is that? That's
number one? I'm where I gotta go a cup of
coffee in the sweet roll. That doesn't get better? To know,
it gets better that beans. It was a short amount
of time, doesn't it, I know? But get something else.
(05:27):
They can eat something else, all right. That's number one.
Number two is that Harold Minor was called Baby Jordan
because of the way he dunked, not because people thought
he was gonna be as good as Michael Jordan. It
is we always compare place had. People are comparing Zion
Williamson to Lebron James already he hadn't even played a
(05:50):
minute in the league, which I agree is ridiculous. But
when Lebron came in the league, there were people talking
about this is the next Michael Jordan, and so on
and so forth. It happens, and Joel Embiid has been
a monster in his short NBA career. I agree with
Mark Jackson. If he doesn't get injured, and that's a
(06:13):
big if, but barring injury, if he is not one
viewed as one of these all time great centers at
the end of his career, shame on embead, that's all.
He said. Got the talent, he's got the versatility, but
he has all the other life. But he has all
the things that you hate when you're talking about a
(06:34):
big man, you're talking about feet problem. He's talk about
back from a barring injury. He didn't say with you know,
he threw that in there because his history so far
is about those things. That's why I'm just saying it's
so premature. I would love if Mark Jackson said this
three years from now, when he played every game for
the last three years and put up incredible numbers and
(06:54):
turned the corner away from injuries and missing games. He's
always doubtful, questionable every night. How in the world can
he be that guy every single night? He's questionable. He
played sixty four games this season. They played eighty two
in the NBA sixty three last season they played. Shaquille
O'Neill in thirteen of his eighteen seasons played fewer games
(07:20):
than NBA. That's why nobody's there one of them. That's all.
He's not one of the greatest big men of what
I'm saying. That's why Mark Jackson said. If he's not
in the conversation as one of them. Hump the breaks
star he averaged fteen point six rebounds again, Hold on, no,
(07:40):
I'm gonna I'm gonna bring it to you. He averaged
thirteen point six rebounds a game this year. Shaquille O'Neill
averaged more than that one time in his all time
great career once once. So don't tell me. Joe lmbad
is it one pace if he stays healthy to be
(08:04):
an all time great player? And how many yeah, and
how many rebounds of Shock average in the four championships
that he won along the way? Can you give me those?
Give me? I know the first three average about fifteen
or okay, good, thank you, and they got to do
with anything none. You're giving me some irrelevant stats a
(08:25):
yearly sas averaged for your career? Who did it? In
the final? Shock was a monster in his father I
didn't get to the finals till deep into his NBA
career he went, he didn't win the finals. In fact,
that was Nick Anderson's problems. I'm glad we bring it
with and I'm glad we're bringing up Shock because remember
(08:49):
it was just shocks fifth year in the league. He
wasn't even finished with his fifth year. Midway through his
fifth year in the league, he was named one of
the top fifty players of all time. Now I know
he definitely is one of the top fifty players of
all time, so there's no could be one of the
top ten. But not in his fifth year. According to you,
(09:12):
it was premature. It wasn't premature because he had already
been to a final. Didn't want anything, but he wont
your whole argument, you know anything. But he went to
the finals in his first with his first five years
on last, that's impressive. Did he win? Nick Anderson would
have made some free throws. It could have changed everything.
I came alive. The wine served him lunch every scene
(09:33):
the game, and you know it. That ain't why they lost.
Nick Anderson's the reason I came out of this game.
So stop it. I just caught you. You didn't catch me.
I see your hand shaking. You know it's didn't robbed.
There is nothing wrong with what Mark Jackson said. He said,
(09:56):
if he doesn't get hurt, and he didn't even say
he's on pace to be one of the all time
great centers. He just said, if he's not in that
conversation when he's done playing, then shame on him. It's
a crime, and he's right. If Joel Mby stays healthy
and does not get into conversation with all those great centers,
(10:18):
then it is a crime. He sold himself short. He
didn't live up to his potential. He didn't work hard enough,
he didn't shed the pounds to stay healthy. There's no
peer of his. He's got an advantage over all the
other greats because there's nobody else in the league like him.
Even Shack who later in his career was like that,
(10:40):
but he had allnes Old Morning, Patrick ewing A, Kim Elijahwan.
As we mentioned, he played against some great centers early
in his career. Who's Joel mb gotta face Nicola Yoki
who is a great center, nobody type of center, not
a banger. So you'll agree with me, No, I don't agree.
(11:01):
I just you just be a contrary. No I'm not.
Don't you watch when you know the thing? Every time
I have a different opion, I'm I'm a contrary every time.
I can't do that to me. You can't pay me
with that brush. There I'm saying you're a contraryan or.
You just know I always agree with Mark Jackson, but
but you. But maybe you're just agree and agree because
you like him. No, you know what I mean. No,
(11:24):
I'm saying, don't make me out. Don't make out that
I'm agree with. No, I don't agree. Just like the
other day when you agree with me or I can't
even remember the topic. You clearly agreed, but you say,
Jeff van Gunn, he's a contrarian too, right, he's just
doing it to Jeff is just wrong. Jeff is just wrong.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
(11:44):
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker week days at seven
pm Eastern four pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the iHeart Radio app. We are excited to be joined
by our next guests. He is the general manager of
the Phoenix Suns. Played in the NBA for the Indiana Pacers,
Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Layers, Miami Heat, and Cleveland Cavaliers
(12:07):
that won three championships. It is James Jones. James, Welcome
to the man. Thanks for having me, guys. Man, I
played for a lot of teams. Man, I didn't realize. Hey,
you got three rings with you. Well done, job, well done,
speaking the jobs well done. This was one of your
first you know, big moves as the general manager there
(12:28):
in Phoenix. You hired Money Williams as your head coach.
What was it about Monty that made you feel like
he's the right guy for the job. I mean, well,
he's the right guy, um, because he is that guy.
And what I mean is he talked to anyone in
the business, anyone in the industry, anyone that's played with him,
any of the players that he's coached, uh, that he
(12:48):
has coached, anyone he's coached with, and they'll tell you
that he's an A plus individual. And so when you're
coming off of kind of the law that we've had
as an organization, which you need A plus individuals, So
you stack, you stack his coaching ability, his acumen, his
experience on top of that, and you find for me
the ideal candidate to lead the Signs. Uh he got
(13:10):
a five year deal that's the going rate for coaches nowadays.
Or just like you just made a commitment to him
that this is the guy you really believe in, and uh,
you're just gonna kind of go from there. No. I mean,
when you when you find someone you truly believe in,
you you know you you make it um you do right,
and just knowing we've had challenges with stability, you know
(13:32):
as well documented the number of coaches we've had, the
number of players we've had, I just thought there's no
better way than to show commitment to us, and I
mean commitment to him, and then for him to show
a commitment to us by deciding to come to Phoenix
for five years. And I know you didn't hire Igor,
but uh, and I'm not asking you to bash him
or anything, but one year seems I don't know if
(13:55):
it's fair or unfair or does It just gets to
a point sometimes where you realize you just got to
make a change and then somebody different or you know,
better out there that you think can move the franchise
where you go. What's the thinking in a one year coach?
I would just say it's different. You know that that's
you know for different teams, you know, the plans change,
(14:17):
a different situation requires you to think differently. And knowing
that you know the guys we had coming back and
potentially to pick that we'll have earlier this year, the
direction of the team um was something different than than
than the year prior, and I just thought it was
best for us to go and find someone who totally
matched you know, the identity we're trying to create, our
(14:37):
identity of the government and identity of consistency. And more importantly,
we need to find someone um that had the experience
to lead us through this tough time. James, you guys
are one of the three teams that has a great
shot of getting the number one picking the draft. Most
executives are saying that Zion Williamson is a clear cut
(14:58):
number one. But you guys have a need for a
point guard. And obviously John Morand is out there and
he's you know, everybody's wild by him. Is your philosophy
best player, Let's just take the best player regardless of
position or let me feel this need, this position need,
because that's what we need for the team to move forward. Well,
(15:20):
where everything we'll do will be based on what's best
for the Suns. And you know you talk about the
players at the top of the draft, you know that's
the lotteries a lottery. You don't know where your draft.
You have to do your work for every prospect, but
for our team, you know, we have a lot of
areas of need, and so you know we'll have to
determine which player is best for us with this group,
(15:41):
you know everything, We'll have a coach, we'll have mantis
input on it. You know, it'll be an organization decision
because you know this is You know that that that pick,
whoever it is, you expect them to be a foundational
piece for your franchise. So um, you just have to
make sure it works, it fits, and that you're in
a position to help them reach their potential. It's the
I couple. We're joined by James Jones, the Phoenix Suns
(16:03):
general manager. Well, what's really happened in Phoenix? And I'm
not asking you to solve all everything that went wrong
has gone wrong in Phoenix, but it would seem like,
you know, a great destination. You guys have had a
lot of top picks over the last few years because
things haven't gone right. But yet there's still no turning
of the corner or winning. How do you get that corrected?
(16:25):
If you keep getting you know, good players, but you
still haven't been able to win games. Well, I think
I'll say that you know, winning is hard. You know,
there's no there's no simple fix. Like I'm I'm not
proposing to get a coach. You get a couple of
players and you mix it together and you start winning.
You know, winning in the process, and it's a process
that has to occur daily. I think for us, we
(16:48):
we just had multiple We should focused multiple times. You know,
we were inconsistent as to who we were, who we
who who, who we identified as Suns players. You know,
we were and consistent how we developed that talent. But
most importantly, I think we were just inconsistent and our
approach to building a team. And so I'm trying to
get away from talent acquisition, talent accumulation, talent identification. We're
(17:13):
talking more about building the culture and building the team.
And I think when you have that type of vision,
it's clear to see the type of player that you
need to win. James last question. You play with Lebron,
James in Cleveland, when you guys won that championship in
twenty sixteen. You always hear about stories Lebron's trying to
run the franchise, Lebron's the general manager, Lebron's making the trades,
(17:35):
he's coaching the team and all that. First of all,
what is it like, what what's the real deal when
you play with Lebron is all that false? Does some
of that go on? Does he you know, run everything? Like,
just tell me what it's like to play with him?
And then too, what was the dynamic like between him
and to Ryn Lou who looks like he may be
the Laker's next coach. I mean, he's an amazing player,
(17:57):
and he's arguably the greatest player of all time. And
when you have that, there are certain things that that
people kind of push on you. All I can say
is that you know, he thinks basketball first. That's the
only thing he cares about is winning and the production
on the court. And if you ask him a question,
he's going to give you his opinion. Whether or not
people take it and run with it, that's on them.
(18:20):
But I've only known him as a guy that's all
about winning, about team and about respecting his coaches. And
so I think you've seen that he had to ultimate
trust and the coaches that believe in him, and he
did some great things in Cleveland, and I hope that
you know he continues some great things from him here
(18:40):
on out. All Right, James, great chef man. We appreciate it,
Good luck moving forward. Thanks guys, to appreciate it. Be
sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple with
Chris Broussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm Eastern
four pm Pacific. Lebron is busy, even though he he's
out of the spotlight right now because he's not in
(19:02):
the playoffs. He's busy though on social media. There's no
zero dark thirty twenty three now because you know, he
doesn't have to do that since they're not in the playoffs.
And a little subtle recruiting already going on one of
Kawhi Leonard Lebron. This was a few days ago, Rob
g Right, he posted an emoji of a hand. That's it,
(19:28):
and everybody's saying, has it in the middle. It was
in the middle of a Raptors game, so everybody took
it like you're recruiting Kawhi Leonard. Now you could in reality,
maybe he's just giving him love. Maybe he's just saying, hey,
great game by Kawhi. But it's subtle recruitment in the
(19:49):
eyes of just about everyone. And then Maverick Carter, Lebron's
business manager, he tweet and you know, now become a
business mogul, media mogul. He tweet eat it out that
Kawhi Leonard is playing like Michael Jordan, So the feeling
is that they are beginning to turn it on. In
(20:11):
terms of recruiting. Kawhi. Lebron said in an interview with
Rachel Nichols on ESPN a few months ago that he
is going to be out there recruiting hard. Can I
give you a start ahead? Pathetic? That's what Lebron looks like. Seriously,
why Chris you want to consider one of the greatest
who ever played the game? It seems so desperate that
(20:34):
Lebron has to do it publicly, publicly. Why are you
doing it publicly? Why can't you just decide to yourself, Hey,
pick up the phone, Hey you want to have lunch,
come to my house so that people don't, you know
what I mean, know what's going on. It just feels
so weird that Lebron would be in that position where
(20:56):
he feels like he has to get help and he
has to do a pub you know what. I'm with you,
what it's just it's just a bad shocking, It's a
it's a bad look. Like you said, you are, in
some people's mind, is the greatest player to ever play
the game. Oh, man, you are still arguably the greatest
player in the world. Don't pander to these guys, right,
(21:21):
That's what I don't understand. Why are you doing this? No,
because it's gonna make it look even worse. What number one,
it's just a bad look in general. You're above that.
But another thing is it's gonna make it look worse
if they don't go. If you've been out there, That's
why I didn't think he should have been out there
talking about, Yeah, I'm gonna be recruiting. I'm gonna be
recruiting everybody. You know. No, do it. You can do
(21:42):
it on the slide. We know you know all these guys.
You cool with all these guys. Just call Kawai hey man,
great game the other night. After the season, Let's talk
that dinner whatever. That's all it is. Don't make it public.
You don't have to make a big deal about it,
saying hey, definitely interested in talking to The season is
all over. Let's make that happen, right, that's it. That's
(22:04):
all you have to do, you know. And I know, Look,
these guys, they grew up in the social media era.
They're used to putting everything out there. We talked about
it with Kevin Durant and all that, but it's still
not a good look. It makes you look a little
bit desperate, you know, and then they think it makes
them look a lot desperate. And that's a shame because
(22:26):
Lebron shouldn't be in that situation. He really shouldn't. That
They should have go between Chris other people reaching out
for him, meeting people privately, making phone calls privately. He
don't need to go out there like, please please come
play with me. I can't get anybody to come play
with me, even if it's the case. It just seems weird, right,
(22:49):
even if it's the case. I'm surprised Lebron doesn't see
that though. That's the thing. He's very media savvy, you know,
he's very calculated about out what he does. Why don't
you see that? Maybe maybe it is he's just so
desperate and he understands that the chances of getting somebody
(23:09):
isn't and so I have to go all out to
tell them, Hey, I really want you, can you can
you come my way? I really want you? And it's
side I'll tell you this. I want to see Lebron
and I get it. He's had these experiences I've said
it before. I think when he was first in Cleveland
(23:29):
at first go round, he didn't recruit, He didn't beg
for players to come play with him. He was all
in on what he had, role players Delonte West, Moe Williams,
and older Anton Jamison Zai drew nisial goals because Anderson
ver gall and he believed in those guys. He believed
(23:51):
that they could win, and they won big sixty six games,
sixty one games. Then when they got to the playoffs,
they always were beaten by a team with more stars.
And then Lebron of course puts a get together a
star Laton team in Miami and wins two out of four.
Then he's got some stars with him in his return
(24:12):
to Cleveland and wins. So now it seems like he
doesn't even he feels like, you gotta have I need
other stars to win. He knows the history of the game,
he's a student of the game, and he feels like
Magic never wanted without Korean, but Bird had got You know,
everybody had guys for the most part. There have been
a few exceptions, but even this is where this is
(24:33):
the problem with Lebron. This is what he did during
the season to wreck the whole season. He went out
publicly without another star. But I know what's gonna happen.
But I understand what I'm saying publicly. It didn't come
off fright. No him doing it publicly and Rob. What
(24:55):
I'd say is this Lebron he's gotta get rid of
at me mentality. Like next year, if it's the worst
case scenario and you don't get anybody, I think at
the very least you'll get a Jimmy Butler and or
a Kimba Walker. But let's say you don't get another
big name. You have to go with your team. You
(25:17):
have and say, look, this is what I got, this
is what I'm rolling with, and we can win. I'm
you have to rid yourself of that mentality that man,
we can't. We ain't gonna win it. Right, even if
that becomes the case, go out there and say I
(25:37):
hate to be look I put on we put on
our pads just like they put one lad at the time.
You're the best player in the world. Are Arguably it
sounds elementary, but I'm with you. I think you do
have to in order for the guys that you have,
for them to get some confidence and on what they're
doing and for them to feel a part of it,
especially after what happened last year, right and Rob you
(26:00):
know this, You never know. You never know. A player
could get injured on another team. Injuries have always played
a big role in you know, NBA playoff, the championships
or heck, you might just be that good, you know.
I mean we're looking around, well, he's getting older. Well,
(26:21):
and we're seeing again, Lebron. I'm not saying he's necessarily
wrong for feeling like you. For the most part, these
stars Kawhi Leonard, no other stars around him. You see
what's happening. Now, we'll see if they can overcome it.
Yanni's ante ukom Ball, you know, not really another a
second star. We'll see how far they can go. But
Kyrie does. He's got some young guys that are budding.
(26:44):
But people think the Lakers have young guys that are buddy.
I mean, you have to just have the mentality that
this is what I have to go to war with
we can win. Damian Lillard has that. Now he's not
winning championships, but hey, that's what that's the mentality you
have to have. And certainly when you're the best player
or in the conversation. As the best player in the world,
(27:05):
you've got to have that mentality and stop being so needy.
It's always like, you know, it just seems like like
you're that guy. So, yeah, you want some other people,
and I get it, but it just seems kind of desperate.
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