November 12, 2025 • 37 mins
Bradley Jay Fills In On NightSide
Music writer and journalist Jim Sullivan joined Bradley to talk about his new book, Backstage & Beyond: COMPLETE: 45 Years of Rock Chats and Rants. Jim has spent his career interviewing and talking to famous rock stars and musicians whose songs dominated the airwaves and music charts. He shared some of his wild and compelling stories with some of music's biggest rock stars over the years!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
As night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ, Boston's new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
If you just joined us, I'm Bradley j in for
Dan Ray tonight on Bezy. If. By the way, if
you'd like to contact me or know a little bit
more about my background, you can at any time you
can go to BRADLEYJ dot org Bradley Jay dot org. Well,
I was in the before I was in the rock business.
I was in the rock business for some time since
(00:27):
the early eighties, and I think it was just about
that time that another person in Boston got in the
rock business, only in the journalistic side of the rock business,
and that would be Jim Sullivan, who spent a long
time being a uh, you know, a primary rock writer,
music writer, critic. Part of his job was being a
(00:50):
critic and and he did more though. But he met
many men, the many many people and had many and
just interesting conversation, any interesting interactions. It's like the dream job.
The only downside being is you have to write, which
I'm terrible at. I'm much better at talking. But somebody's
going to do the writing, and Jim did it. He's
(01:13):
put together a book called Backstage and Beyond Complete forty
five years of rock chats and rants by Jim Sullivan,
and so we have him here with us to share
some of the stories. And I want to actually dig
into Jim's background and see how he evolved to get
to where he got. I'm always interested in that kind
(01:34):
of thing. And this is a good opportunity for you,
my friends, because you don't you know, if you met
someone famous, you don't really get the opportunity to just
brag about it at a party. I know you want to,
but it's not cool. But you have that knowledge, and
this is the time when you can share that. So
all the time we're talking to Jim Sullivan. By the way,
(01:57):
handsome Jim Sullivan. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you
as well, because most everybody's this meant somebody in the
rock world. We're going to keep it narrow down to
the rock world, not the sports world, not the political world.
But if you're a person who like Darrold Smith, j Gials, whomever,
(02:21):
James Brown, somebody from back in the day, somebody in
modern we'd like to hear about that too. This is
your opportunity to share that. Were you one of the
few people who sell the Beatles in Boston. Actually that's
not you didn't really meet them. I guess that doesn't count,
so scratch that. But anyway, let's introduce Jim Sullivan. Hi Jim, Hello, Brodley,
(02:42):
Thanks for being with us. This is perfect, This is great. Now.
How long have you and I been sort of gliding
along in parallel rock lives in Boston? I started in
about nineteen eighty one. I got to Boston in nineteen
seventy nine, got on them with your radio in nineteen eighty,
and then hit the big time in like eighty two.
(03:07):
How about you? Is that a similar timeline?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Pretty close? I beat you by about a year. I
got here fall of nineteen seventy eight, and I was
writing for a magazine called Sweet Potato, which started in Portland, Maine,
and then opened to Boston branch. Kind of coincidentally went
my timing for them opening that up when I came
down here. I was also a rock columnist for The
Bangor Daily News, which I kept doing while I was
(03:33):
in Boston as well, and wrote for Sweet Potato for
a while here, and then started doing some freelancing for
the Globe in nineteen seventy nine early part of seventy
nine I was hired on staff in eighty eight and
onward from there.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's interesting, we're going to get to some of the
unbelievably cool stories you have about interacting with the heavies
of the rock world. But I'm really curious, and before
we get started that, how did you go from a
kid and grammar school, blank slate, no no idea where
(04:10):
you're going to go? How did you, you know, bite
onto the rock thing and the rock journalism thing, And
a lot of people think about it but don't actually
do it. What was it? It was different about you
where you actually did it?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Well.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I was a big reader when I was a kid,
a teenager, Cream Magazine, Rolling Stone, Fusion, Circus, Circus, Raves,
Trouser Press, later I mean, and some of the English
papers too, not when I was a teen, but later,
and I mean Melody Maker. So my orientation was always
toward reading and finding out about things that maybe wouldn't
(04:49):
be played on the radio, and there was, of course
a lot of them, and by reading that sent me
to record stores, and the record stores drained my wallet,
of course, because that's where pretty much all my disposable
income went. And just in reading what I read and
in listening to what I was listening to, I just thought, well,
(05:09):
I think this is something I can do. I think
I have a pretty good take on what's good what
instance And I suppose in terms of the interviews, the
meeting people and doing that, I honestly didn't know for
sure how that would be, whether it would be nerve wracking,
something I could do or something I would feel comfortable with.
(05:32):
So that was actually the break in. There would have
been talking to the band Swayed in nineteen seventy five.
They were playing bang Or Maine. There was the opening
act on a triple bill, zz Top at the head
of the mill, and I was ushered backstage by Andrekavatsis
the promoter.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Do you think you do? You think you're a writer
first and a fan second or vice versada.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Fan first, definitely, absolutely, And I mean, you know, the
fan writer things always split pretty much throughout my life.
I mean, as a fan, I think I look at
things critically and I it's just a critic. I'm also
a fan with Slade. It was a case of me
being a mega fan. And I mean they were in
America a very obscure band. People didn't know them. If
(06:19):
at all. It was before Quiet Riot had come on.
I mean, yeah, I come on Fill Llinois. They did
their cover of it years after that. But I knew them.
I knew their music quite well, and I'd read about
them along and so when I got backstage, I was
offered a beer. Fine, thank you would be good, and
(06:40):
you sat down with them and it was very comfortable.
And I mean, I give them credit both in the
introductions of the book and once again here tonight for
making me feel so at home. And I think part
of it for them was they were very happy that
there was an American journalist quote unquote radio guy. I
was doing radio at the time, college radio at WWB
and Maine, and just somebody who was interested wanted to
(07:02):
talk to them and tape it. And I ended up
later after they was almost on putting together an hour
long special on the radio on Slay, interspersed with their
music and the chat that we had, And yeah, do
I wish I had that tave now, I sure do.
I have no idea where it ever went to. But again,
(07:22):
the main point here is just being able to get
in the front door, or get in the back door,
whatever door. I got in by virtual of was active,
these four nice guys from England who kind of welcomed
me into the fold. And after doing that, it's like saying, well,
this is good. They're people. They may have some fame,
but they are people. And that's kind of the approach
(07:43):
I've always had to whoever I've talked to, is to
just kind of meet them on the level of one
person doing his job, me and them doing their job
playing music, and then with me, ay when talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
It, by the way, the first people that do come
on field and always they did also Mama, were all crazy.
Now would you call them glam?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah? They were. Well, they were put into the glam
category along with Bowie and Roxy Music, Mud Sweet, bands
that were all maybe sort of different, but all had
the attire, which is to say they had, you know,
the sort of outrageous costuming and Slade Knotty hold of
the singer had mirrors on his hat that he wore,
(08:29):
and so I guess, you know, glam would be a
fair enough category to put them in, but they were
just you know, they were also just good kind of
meat and potatoes, put your foot down, stomp your foot
kind of music with an English sensibility more so than
I guess an American one, which is one of the
reasons they were huge over there. The megastars in England
(08:50):
and their attempts to crack America just never really took hold.
I mean, they had developed a small audience, I guess
over the years, but they were just one of those bands.
It was just too English for American.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So you said, hey boy, I can do this, and
I like doing this much more with Jim Sullivan after
this on BZ it's Night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
With Dan Ray on wbzas Boston's news radio read.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Jay in Dan with Jim Sullivan, Boston Globe long writer
for a long time. Jim, what do you do now?
You're not dead in the water? Are you very active?
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Oh? Gosh?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I left the Globe in two thousand and five, and
I did the two books that you mentioned earlier, Backstage
and Beyond Volume one, Volume two. And in terms of
just regular sort of writing, I write for w b
r's r Ey website. I do some things for Rock
and Roll Globe. No affiliation with the Boston Globe. I
(09:49):
just did one of three interviews Pete Townsend did to
promote the Who tour, and I did that for the
AARP website. I've done a few things. And you know,
I mean whenever anybody says the ARP website, you go, oh,
well that's for older people, right, And I go, well, yeah,
(10:09):
I'm an older person, and.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So you start getting AARP like when you're twenty five
year old. So yeah, I know it doesn't count. There's
a good chance to get right into talking about your
experiences from some of the heavies. Pete townshend Man, that's
a big deal. And I'm sure you're spoking to him
(10:31):
more than once. Why don't you share some stories here
on de would be easy about that. And in the meantime,
anybody is had a closing kind of with a rockstar,
well let us know about that too. So Pete Townsend, gym,
let's do that, okay, Will.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
This was I think it was the third interview i'd
done with him. There's a chapter on him and who
in the book based on the others that I've done previously.
This was new, It's not for about forty minutes or
so an interview. He was an England I was here
in Boston and basically we talked to He's a very
honest guy. I mean he does not hold that, and
(11:09):
he talked about the if you will, you know, some
of the issues with growing old and playing rock and
roll music and doing the show that they wanted to do,
the health problems he has that Roger Daltry, the singer has,
you know, the issues they had with their drummer, Zach,
who they ended up sacking after many years, and how
(11:32):
they went about selecting material for this vital run up shows,
which is now done. I saw the one at Fenway
and it was really quite terrific. The sound there was wonderful,
as people who in the friendly probably know, and you
know you're watching from a distance that's not good. But nevertheless,
(11:52):
it felt great to be in the midst of that
music once again. And I think I got to be honest,
I mean, I felt a real connection, maybe and more
so because I had just sought to him a couple
of weeks before that. It had an idea of what
was going on in his mind in terms of putting
this final shebang together, and you know, the the mountains
(12:14):
they had to overcome and doing it. And he has
always been very open about those kind of things. And
you know, in fact, the first interview I did with
him was in New York. I think it was eighty five,
and you know, he had just written a book and
it dealt a lot with his addiction. Not necessarily his
(12:35):
per se, but the subject was addiction, and he was
certainly drawing from his own experience. And you know, that
was pretty heavy stuff to go through to, you know,
to be in a first encounter to have all of
that kind of come out. But I you know, command
him for it, and you know his honesty and forthrighters
in discussing all of that, Why.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
You supposed so many rock stars get addicted? Is it
because it's going on I'm risk too, or because they
talk about pressure, but a lot of people have pressure?
Is because it's available and all around. What does your
take on why that is?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
My take is that it's a lot less prevalent now
than it used to be. I think the generation several
generations I guess that are up there now are much
more I think aware of the dangers and the pitfalls
that come. I think, you know, the people now that
are doing it are much more. I think they've got
their nose to the grindstone a little bit more than well,
(13:31):
you know, something up their nose perhaps, But I think
back in the if you will, the seventies and eighties, nineties.
I mean, when these guys were getting all the success.
You know, there's for one thing, it's free, right Often
if you're a rock star, there's people wanting to give
it to you. Townsend said that was a problem too.
(13:52):
People would come up to them and go, you know, hey,
you know I've got whatever, cocaine, heroin, whatever it might be.
And you know, so you have to have the discipline
to say, no, that's not good. I don't want to
do that, and part of you really does want to
do that. And Whose bass player John Atwhistle died from
an overdose of cocaine. After giving it up for a
(14:13):
long time, he decided, oh, one last bit before the
Who starts their tour. I guess it was a two
thousand and two tour, and it killed him. And of
course The Who's drummer Keith Moon died before that. Also,
drugs and alcohol involved in that.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I think it's been part of the rock culture for
so long, or especially back in those days, that I
think some people thought it was just sort of an
accepted cost of doing business in a way, And of
course a lot of fun up until it wasn't. And
you know the famous Aerosmith line. I think I don't
know if it was Joe Perry or Steve Tyler, but
(14:52):
the thing about them, we used to be musicians doing drugs,
and then we became drug add explained music. And one thing, yeah,
I mean, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
One thing that people don't understand is the extreme boredom
of going on tour. That's part one and part two,
the extreme letdown after the show is over. You might
think you'd be all glowy and welcoming people, but you
know what, it's a letdown. You travel. You traveled all
day in the band. Maybe if you're rich, you travel
(15:24):
in a plane, but still you're traveling. You don't really
see the city. You go to another club, then there's
the adrenaline of the gig, and then it's a huge letdown,
like what, No, I just got to go back to
the hotel and I gotta get on a bus or
a plane and go somewhere else, some nameless city and
(15:44):
do it all over again. Some of these people have
one hundred stop tours, one hundred and fifty stop tours,
and it's just gotta be so grueling that I would
think that would be kind of a major factor some
the dude to get through the border. I'm in the gruelingness.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I think you're very right. For a lot of people,
that's it, I mean, the highest incredible being on stage
and the adjustment from not being on stage. I can't
tell you how many people I've talked to, and actually
recently Nicky Dolan's of the Monkeys, who was in town
playing City Winery last night and tonight, actually saw him
(16:23):
last night. I talked to him for a while and
he's talked to me about that whole thing about I mean,
he's eighty years old, Nicky, and he sounds great and
he's really enthusiastic about playing. But it really is that,
you know, hour and a half that he's on stage
where he comes alive and the rest of it, and
especially the older you get, the more grueling it gets you.
(16:45):
As you mentioned there, that were grueling. Yeah, you know
that's the part that you know, everybody would like to
skip if they can't, but it's necessary, as you say,
to get from city to city. So it's sort of like,
you know, the part of your day that is focused
and intense is relevantly a short period of time compared
(17:06):
to what most people do for their eight hour jobs,
whatever it might pay. And then you've got a lot
of time, a lot of downtime. And I know for Nikki,
for instance, one of the things is the family, both well,
his sister things with him, tours with him, but the
extended family that a band can bring, and he and
his back and then are very close. And I mean
(17:27):
they dine together, they hang together, they talk all the time.
And I think to have that kind of support system,
familial support system, when you're on the road, it's very
integral to doing it and wanting to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, you know, a long time ago I kind of
wondered why would a man bring their family onto it?
But now, in my wisdom, I kind of get it.
I kind of see why, Oh, there'd be somebody to
talk to, somebody, you know, you're not all alone. You're
not going to go do necessarily such bad And of
course this is interesting. It must be interesting to be
(18:04):
Mickey Donalds on the backside of a career. He's not,
you know, flying first class. Probably he's probably low budgeting it,
and that's going to be an entirely different thing when
you get to the level of playing the tops Field Fair,
and I love the tops Field Fair, but you know
what I mean, it's got to be an entirely different thing.
I have a hard news break at thirty one, so
(18:24):
I don't want to get us involved in another question.
But I just want you to take this time to
tell folks where to get the book. And we'll do
this two or three times. I hope, where can you
get your book? Because it's not the traditional.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Way the book.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
They were both published in twenty twenty three, so they're
not likely to be found in your bookstore. I will
have to say that. I will say you can get
them the publisher, which is a trouserpressbooks dot com, or
the Amazon or Apple Music online. There are plenty of
ways to get it perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Now, let's have a drumm roll and find out if
the government shut down is now over or not.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Night Died with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Let's continue with the rock writer Jim Sullivan. He's got
a lot of stories about a lot of interesting interactions
with some big famous people, and we'll continue. I guess
with the clash we all we've talked about. Pete Townsend
had a little bit a little different direction, Jim, if
we could talk about your interactions with the Clash and
by the way, London Calling by the Clash is my
(19:36):
go to karaoke song, And I'm gonna ask you at
this point what is your go Do you ever do karaoke? Jim?
I would love to see it, and what would you say?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I do not. My wife did it once at a
bar next to the Paradise where we went after a
Stiff Little Finger show and Jake Burns from sci Little
Fingers joined us and Rosa my wife the things. You're
just terrific and great, but I would very much the
observer in that count.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You are in the business, don't you think people are
quite forgiving?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Not really, not in that case, especially with cell phone cameras,
videos that wouldn't happen. All right, let's dig down anyway
into the Clash the Clash. I saw them nineteen seventy
nine the Harvard Square Theater, which no longer exists. It
was their first Boston appearance. I think it was maybe
the fourth US show, and the anticipation for that was
(20:37):
just immense around town. That was also the time with
the WBCN strike, which is a whole other topic which
probably we don't need to get into right now, but
there was that going on at the same time.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
For those of you don't know, WBCN at the time
until two thousand and nine was the premiere rock station,
and it was one of the three or four big
ones in the country that kind of wrote new music.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Is true, That is true, very yeah. They were very
much a supporter of the Clash and the class, very
much a supporter of BCN. And I will never forget
the way they took the stage with I'm So Bored
with the USA, and the idea that they would hit
the States with this song about being bored by the States,
(21:22):
and this song was actually more about being bored with
American TV, which got pumped into England constantly, so they
had all these cop shows and they just sort of
went back enough of all that. And this is kind
of a funny little anic that I was talking to
Joe Strummer and the late singer guitarists for The Clash
about that song, and it started off he said it
(21:44):
was just sort of a love song or an anti
love song, where it was I'm so bored with you,
and somewhere in the writing process it mutated from that
kind of a simple statement like that into being bored
with the whole culture of the United States, and it
became a statement of sorts and the crowd went the
(22:05):
crowd went nuts. I mean it was just like we
were just so with them. We were bored too. I mean,
you know, it's like, we don't want her corporate rock music.
We want this punk rock from England or America wherever
it's coming from. And uh, it was just one of
the greatest times in my life. I really had, you know,
just so so so many great memories with that.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Did you did you interview them? Then?
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I did.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
I did.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I talked to Paul, the bass player in Joe pretty extensive.
I did a big story for Sweet Potato at the time.
And then many years later post clash, I think it
would have been eighty nine, when he was playing with
his man the Muscalarios. They played the Paradise and we
were talking there and uh, you know, we're hitting it
off well, and he wanted to continue the night, so
(22:52):
we all went down to Foley's Bar in the downtown
crossing one there too, and uh, it was so I
mean I got it walking into the bar with you
know the punk rock or old man bar that it
was walking in with Strummer where all the punks are like,
oh my god, Joe Strummer is here in our little
dive bar.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
That is a huge, huge deal for people in the
rock You had to go to an old man dive
bar with Joe Strummer. That is just that one memory
would be enough for most people.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And the funny thing about it was, of course Joe
could not buy a drink all night. It was like
just people lining up in beers and it was just
one of those one of those great memories. I've gone
fortunate to me be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Okay, this is a good, good opportunity to make a comparison,
So you you we talked about Who first, and we
talked about the Clash. Now, was there would the Who
fall under the the category of the type of bands
that the Clash and other punk bands we're trying we're
trying to tear down, not not personally, but that their genre.
(23:59):
Were they diometrically opposed to that level? Would would Joe
Stromer be like anti who? H?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think yes and no. And the no part of
it is because the Clash ended up opening up for
the Who on their on one of their tours. Actually
they played Madison Square Garden together. Uh, and they they
were indebted to The Who, to the Kinks, to mont
the Hoople, to many of the bands that came before them.
At the same time there they were trying to establish
(24:31):
a line between the old and the new, and uh,
there was this sort of a people joked about, you know,
the joke, I was a punk before you were a punk,
and it's like, when did you become a punk rocker?
So I was there in seventy six? Man, oh yeah,
were you, well, maybe seventy seven or seventy a. And
you know, it's like this badge of I was there
(24:52):
at the beginning of it all.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Speaking of that badge, the first Pestols show, probably seven
million people say they were there, and of course they
were probably only room for two hundred or something like that.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Which show I'm sorry what you said.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
The Sex Missiles first show. There are so many people
will say they were at the first show or at
one of those early shows in England. It's what is it,
it's attendance inflation.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I was at their first US show in Atlanta, No, no, lie,
And it was really just by happenstance. The reason I
was in Atlanta was to visit a friend, college friend
and the of the class. I'm sorry. The Tostoles were
going to play Atlanta like the third or fourth date
on their tour, but because of visa problems, because of
(25:39):
their criminal background Malcolm McLaren screwing things up their manager,
Atlanta ended up being the first date. And I ended
up in line when I got to Atlanta with my
friend Lesley, and we just stood in line. We bought
tickets the show as long as all that. We bought
tickets for two tickets for eighty dollars from a kid
(26:00):
in mine who wanted to have eighty dollars more than
he wanted to see the Sex Pistoles. And we were
there early enough. We were like, I think it's third
fourth row of I mean, not that it was seated,
it was all standing up, but we were like right
in the pack of that, and it was just so
much fun. And I remember talking to one an older
gentleman who had been a fan of Back to the
Who in the mid sixties, and he was there for
(26:23):
the Pistols in seventy seventy eight, and he said to me,
this is just like it was with the Who. It
feels just the same vibe for me. And so there
you go. I mean there is a connection between the
music's and the energy and the right. Yeah, you know,
controversy as supposed to just unbelievable stories.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I never I never interviewed Jack John Lyden. I did
get to have sushi with him one time, which is
which is better than nothing, but nothing like that. We
have Stephen Brockton who wants to check in. Hi Steve, say,
how did Jim? Jim Sullivan?
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Hi Bradley, Hi Jim, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Steve?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Good good? Can you hear me? All right?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Sure can good?
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Good? Yeah? I'm my famous person i've met is Keith Riches.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Oh that's big December eighteen, his birthday same as mine. Wow,
So tell us the stories. Tell us the stories.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Steve Well, he's a friend of mine, is a pilot
and he sometimes flies famous people around and he'll call
me and tell me if I can get, if I
can make it, I get, I get to go along,
not so much lately with all the airline stuff that's happened.
But he really don't do it anymore. But he called
me up out of the blue, one day and just
told me that I'm going to Math's venue. You want
(27:44):
to go to Moth's Vine and says, yeah, I'll go
to Maths in't but I met him ut in Norwood.
We jumped in the plane, flew with mathas Vinnys. We
go go to Keith. We saw Keith was already there.
At one time. It was two different times actually, so
one time the plane, Yes, I did, I lijet, Oh.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
My god, did you?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I was like dropping I was dropping out.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I was like, I.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Can't believe this.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You wouldn't tell me.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
He didn't tell me. My buddy didn't tell me until
I get into plane, and I'm going, what the hell
is it? We didn't tell me. It was supposed to
be Keith Richards. I'm going I was dying because he's
a big, some big fan.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know. So were you sitting in the co pilots
saying or were you sitting back with Keith Richards?
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Well, from time to time, from time to time, confidentially
between you and me and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Was listening, I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I would get to sit I would get to sit No, no, no, no,
I would get to sit in the in the passenger
seat because they need to balance the plane we have.
They have to keep it level, so they that's really
why I was there.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I was like, luggage, so Keith.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
A couple of times. I did I actually get to
talk to him? Dude, you say, well, I was so
stop struck. I didn't. I didn't know who was say right.
So I got to take his bag off the jet
because he was over in one of those nasty macus
Yard Airport advance, those Dodge vands. This is a nasty,
nasty thing to send out to get Keith, but it
kind of fits him. I was supposed to go get
(29:12):
his bag out of the plane and bring him his bag.
So I go get his bag and don't drop. That
bag had a big bottle of wine in it. So
I bring him over with the bag. He was already
in the in the in the in the van, so
I hand it in the bag. I saw the wine
in there, And when he reached for the for the
for the wine, he took a little extra time because
he showed me his sculler ring, like real slowly, and
(29:34):
I was like, oh, look at that. It's a sculler ring.
I don't believe it. He just like moving it around,
you know, watch me freak out. He knows, he goes, Yeah,
he goes, he goes. He says to me, he goes.
I need that for the old lady. I gotta bring
that for the old lady.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
A stellar, sterling story.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Actually, actually there's a whole lot more, but uh, I
just tell her tell you sometime.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But huh, well, we'll save I really appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Yeah, but the high point quickly, just quickly, the high point. Yeah,
the high point was I got to ride in in
the van to his vacation home, no into that, no nothing,
and he smoked h lucky strike or a camel no
filter in the van, and I got to Inhale Keith
(30:25):
Ridge's secondhand tobacco's.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I completely get that. It's very likely that, Yeah, I
completely I did something similar. It's likely that you actually
got some off Keith Richard's molecules inside your body and
which changed your DNA.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
A little bit. I anserly felt really cool. I don't
know what it was.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
That's great story. I appreciate that. WHOA, look at the time,
we have so much more to cover with uh, Jim
Jim Sullivan, rock Rider, He's got more stories. I'll tell
you that I hope you're not in a hurry.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Jim, No, I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Cool. Let's take this break on w b Z.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Thanks for being on night Side Battle and Jay for Dan.
Where with Jim Sullivan And I want to before we
go back to Jim, tell you a little bit more
about the book. Some of the people that Jim Is
interacted with. Our list them here, Jerry le Lewis and Hunter,
David Bowie, Iggy Pop Lou read stories about these people,
and may I add that Jim has the added advantage
(31:35):
of actually being a writer. A lot of people write
books about rock then aren't not really writers. But because
Jim is an expert and excellent writer, the whole thing
is a breeze that it's just clever and well done
and not filled with cliches, and it's just wonderful book.
And by the way, it's called Backstation Beyond forty five
(31:56):
years of Rock, Chats and Rants. Let me get to
some of the other people in there, because there are
rock and roll folks for all ends of the spectrum.
Jerry Lee Lewis, Ian Hunter, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed,
Brian Eno, Brian Ferry, The A, Roxy Music Guys, That
(32:17):
Roxy Music Guy, h King, Crimson, Peter Gabriel, Jethro Tal,
Ginger Baker, The Caream Drummer, Ringo Star Warren Zevon, very underrated,
Pete Townsend, The Kinks, Both Ray and Dave and Leonard Cohen,
Maryanne Faithful, John Fogerty of Creden's, Tina Turner, Neil Young,
Richard Thompson, Darlene Love, Alice Cooper, Jay Giles, Aerosmith, Kiss, Motorhead,
(32:41):
George Clinton. I interviewed George Clinton, Tangerine Dream and a
bunch More, I Won't The Cure, Gang of Four, Alvis Costello,
Beastie Boys, Somebody for Everybody There and again. These are
all glued together by excellent breezy writing. It's a complete
no brainer, great for you, great for a gift, and
(33:04):
it's available on by way of Trouser Press Books or
as I understand, on Amazon. There. Now we cover that
a little bit. Now, let's squeeze in one more cool
story before the top of the air. Jim and I
hope you can. If you're not doing anything, maybe you
can stay after.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Two, I can I can do that. Let me do
I was thinking of this while you were reeling off
the list there, Bradley, and thanks for There are a
ton of people in there. I think eighty one chapters
of something, considering both books and the e book. Ellis
Cooper this from the from the book itself. I just
(33:43):
popped up a quote that I had and was asking
about the early days and how much they were hated
by people, and he said, oh, gosh, yeah, we weren't
just hated by the establishment. We were hated by rock.
When we came out and we did the outrageous stage show,
it was heralding to all the bands, the grateful Dead
dance like that, that their era was over. Bands like
that hated us. Until you have a hit record, you're
(34:05):
basically an outsider. Well then you have a hit record
and two or three, and all of a sudden, you're
not an outsider and you are now what's going on?
And now you have to do a show. If you
want to stay with it, you have to do a show. Yeah,
and that was that's very very true.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Look at ghosts or did he have to create his
own little niche? He wasn't he wasn't punk. He wasn't
he wasn't the battle progressive rock. He wasn't punk. He
wasn't really Ozzy Osbourne, or was he. I mean, maybe
that's as close as maybe that's.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Just that would be.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
That would be close Aussie. I think I think Alice,
you know, he and the band. I mean, the band
was called Alice Cooper, and yeah he was he took
the name Alice Cooper from his given name, Vince Vernier.
But you know, they did something very early on the
very few we're doing, and I mean they used theatrics.
They used a grotesque imagery, the executions, the mock executions
(35:07):
that happened, hanging guillotine in the end of the night,
songs like Dead Babies, I Love the Dead. They were
going out on a limb, and you know I loved it.
I mean I was a kid who loved that kind
of rebellion and loved the kind of hard rock energy
he brought to it. And I got to tell you this,
probably one of the best two days of my life
were a couple of years ago when I got to
(35:29):
play golf with him. He was in town with the
Hollywood Vampires, the Bandits with Johnny Depp and Joe Perry
and Alice is a golfer, big time golfer, and he
wanted to play, and his people got in touch with
me and said, hey, do you have any time would
you like to golf with Alice? I said yeah, I
think let me check. Yeah, I think I can do that.
(35:49):
And we played on a Monday. He was in town
for the week getting ready for the show and doing
some stuff, so he was around. We played on a Monday,
got down the round and he said, you want to
play again before the show and I said, yeah, I
think I can do that too. So we played the
day of the show, the morning of the show, and
(36:09):
then we went to the show at night. And it
was so great because Alice during golf dressed like a golfer, frankly,
an old man golfer. You can you know, there are
pictures up on on online, uh. And then the transition
from that to the character that he plays in concert
with all the makeup and everything like that. It was
just fabulous. And there's pictures of me and him as golfers,
(36:32):
and then me and him at the show itself, backstage
before the show, and it's just pretty funny. All of
that happening in the same day.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Was intimidating golfing with Alice Cooper. You get up to
the t you know he's a good golf and I
have golf with you. I know I know what level
you're at or what level he used to be. Were
you intimidated ding off in front of Alice Cooper? Yes
or no?
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yes, yes and no. And here's the thing. You know
what I got to say, this.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Is a good We're going to find out why both
yes or no? Intimidating to golf with Alice Cooper with us?
After this, stay with us to find out what it's
like to do you offer Alice Cooper on WBZ This
is nights Side with Dan Ray. I'm Bradley Jane for Dan.
Let's hear some more rock stars with writer Jim Sullivan
on WBZ News Radio ten thirty
As night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ, Boston's new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
If you just joined us, I'm Bradley j in for
Dan Ray tonight on Bezy. If. By the way, if
you'd like to contact me or know a little bit
more about my background, you can at any time you
can go to BRADLEYJ dot org Bradley Jay dot org. Well,
I was in the before I was in the rock business.
I was in the rock business for some time since
(00:27):
the early eighties, and I think it was just about
that time that another person in Boston got in the
rock business, only in the journalistic side of the rock business,
and that would be Jim Sullivan, who spent a long
time being a uh, you know, a primary rock writer,
music writer, critic. Part of his job was being a
(00:50):
critic and and he did more though. But he met
many men, the many many people and had many and
just interesting conversation, any interesting interactions. It's like the dream job.
The only downside being is you have to write, which
I'm terrible at. I'm much better at talking. But somebody's
going to do the writing, and Jim did it. He's
(01:13):
put together a book called Backstage and Beyond Complete forty
five years of rock chats and rants by Jim Sullivan,
and so we have him here with us to share
some of the stories. And I want to actually dig
into Jim's background and see how he evolved to get
to where he got. I'm always interested in that kind
(01:34):
of thing. And this is a good opportunity for you,
my friends, because you don't you know, if you met
someone famous, you don't really get the opportunity to just
brag about it at a party. I know you want to,
but it's not cool. But you have that knowledge, and
this is the time when you can share that. So
all the time we're talking to Jim Sullivan. By the way,
(01:57):
handsome Jim Sullivan. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you
as well, because most everybody's this meant somebody in the
rock world. We're going to keep it narrow down to
the rock world, not the sports world, not the political world.
But if you're a person who like Darrold Smith, j Gials, whomever,
(02:21):
James Brown, somebody from back in the day, somebody in
modern we'd like to hear about that too. This is
your opportunity to share that. Were you one of the
few people who sell the Beatles in Boston. Actually that's
not you didn't really meet them. I guess that doesn't count,
so scratch that. But anyway, let's introduce Jim Sullivan. Hi Jim, Hello, Brodley,
(02:42):
Thanks for being with us. This is perfect, This is great. Now.
How long have you and I been sort of gliding
along in parallel rock lives in Boston? I started in
about nineteen eighty one. I got to Boston in nineteen
seventy nine, got on them with your radio in nineteen eighty,
and then hit the big time in like eighty two.
(03:07):
How about you? Is that a similar timeline?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Pretty close? I beat you by about a year. I
got here fall of nineteen seventy eight, and I was
writing for a magazine called Sweet Potato, which started in Portland, Maine,
and then opened to Boston branch. Kind of coincidentally went
my timing for them opening that up when I came
down here. I was also a rock columnist for The
Bangor Daily News, which I kept doing while I was
(03:33):
in Boston as well, and wrote for Sweet Potato for
a while here, and then started doing some freelancing for
the Globe in nineteen seventy nine early part of seventy
nine I was hired on staff in eighty eight and
onward from there.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's interesting, we're going to get to some of the
unbelievably cool stories you have about interacting with the heavies
of the rock world. But I'm really curious, and before
we get started that, how did you go from a
kid and grammar school, blank slate, no no idea where
(04:10):
you're going to go? How did you, you know, bite
onto the rock thing and the rock journalism thing, And
a lot of people think about it but don't actually
do it. What was it? It was different about you
where you actually did it?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Well.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I was a big reader when I was a kid,
a teenager, Cream Magazine, Rolling Stone, Fusion, Circus, Circus, Raves,
Trouser Press, later I mean, and some of the English
papers too, not when I was a teen, but later,
and I mean Melody Maker. So my orientation was always
toward reading and finding out about things that maybe wouldn't
(04:49):
be played on the radio, and there was, of course
a lot of them, and by reading that sent me
to record stores, and the record stores drained my wallet,
of course, because that's where pretty much all my disposable
income went. And just in reading what I read and
in listening to what I was listening to, I just thought, well,
(05:09):
I think this is something I can do. I think
I have a pretty good take on what's good what
instance And I suppose in terms of the interviews, the
meeting people and doing that, I honestly didn't know for
sure how that would be, whether it would be nerve wracking,
something I could do or something I would feel comfortable with.
(05:32):
So that was actually the break in. There would have
been talking to the band Swayed in nineteen seventy five.
They were playing bang Or Maine. There was the opening
act on a triple bill, zz Top at the head
of the mill, and I was ushered backstage by Andrekavatsis
the promoter.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Do you think you do? You think you're a writer
first and a fan second or vice versada.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Fan first, definitely, absolutely, And I mean, you know, the
fan writer things always split pretty much throughout my life.
I mean, as a fan, I think I look at
things critically and I it's just a critic. I'm also
a fan with Slade. It was a case of me
being a mega fan. And I mean they were in
America a very obscure band. People didn't know them. If
(06:19):
at all. It was before Quiet Riot had come on.
I mean, yeah, I come on Fill Llinois. They did
their cover of it years after that. But I knew them.
I knew their music quite well, and I'd read about
them along and so when I got backstage, I was
offered a beer. Fine, thank you would be good, and
(06:40):
you sat down with them and it was very comfortable.
And I mean, I give them credit both in the
introductions of the book and once again here tonight for
making me feel so at home. And I think part
of it for them was they were very happy that
there was an American journalist quote unquote radio guy. I
was doing radio at the time, college radio at WWB
and Maine, and just somebody who was interested wanted to
(07:02):
talk to them and tape it. And I ended up
later after they was almost on putting together an hour
long special on the radio on Slay, interspersed with their
music and the chat that we had, And yeah, do
I wish I had that tave now, I sure do.
I have no idea where it ever went to. But again,
(07:22):
the main point here is just being able to get
in the front door, or get in the back door,
whatever door. I got in by virtual of was active,
these four nice guys from England who kind of welcomed
me into the fold. And after doing that, it's like saying, well,
this is good. They're people. They may have some fame,
but they are people. And that's kind of the approach
(07:43):
I've always had to whoever I've talked to, is to
just kind of meet them on the level of one
person doing his job, me and them doing their job
playing music, and then with me, ay when talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
It, by the way, the first people that do come
on field and always they did also Mama, were all crazy.
Now would you call them glam?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah? They were. Well, they were put into the glam
category along with Bowie and Roxy Music, Mud Sweet, bands
that were all maybe sort of different, but all had
the attire, which is to say they had, you know,
the sort of outrageous costuming and Slade Knotty hold of
the singer had mirrors on his hat that he wore,
(08:29):
and so I guess, you know, glam would be a
fair enough category to put them in, but they were
just you know, they were also just good kind of
meat and potatoes, put your foot down, stomp your foot
kind of music with an English sensibility more so than
I guess an American one, which is one of the
reasons they were huge over there. The megastars in England
(08:50):
and their attempts to crack America just never really took hold.
I mean, they had developed a small audience, I guess
over the years, but they were just one of those bands.
It was just too English for American.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So you said, hey boy, I can do this, and
I like doing this much more with Jim Sullivan after
this on BZ it's Night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
With Dan Ray on wbzas Boston's news radio read.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Jay in Dan with Jim Sullivan, Boston Globe long writer
for a long time. Jim, what do you do now?
You're not dead in the water? Are you very active?
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Oh? Gosh?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I left the Globe in two thousand and five, and
I did the two books that you mentioned earlier, Backstage
and Beyond Volume one, Volume two. And in terms of
just regular sort of writing, I write for w b
r's r Ey website. I do some things for Rock
and Roll Globe. No affiliation with the Boston Globe. I
(09:49):
just did one of three interviews Pete Townsend did to
promote the Who tour, and I did that for the
AARP website. I've done a few things. And you know,
I mean whenever anybody says the ARP website, you go, oh,
well that's for older people, right, And I go, well, yeah,
(10:09):
I'm an older person, and.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So you start getting AARP like when you're twenty five
year old. So yeah, I know it doesn't count. There's
a good chance to get right into talking about your
experiences from some of the heavies. Pete townshend Man, that's
a big deal. And I'm sure you're spoking to him
(10:31):
more than once. Why don't you share some stories here
on de would be easy about that. And in the meantime,
anybody is had a closing kind of with a rockstar,
well let us know about that too. So Pete Townsend, gym,
let's do that, okay, Will.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
This was I think it was the third interview i'd
done with him. There's a chapter on him and who
in the book based on the others that I've done previously.
This was new, It's not for about forty minutes or
so an interview. He was an England I was here
in Boston and basically we talked to He's a very
honest guy. I mean he does not hold that, and
(11:09):
he talked about the if you will, you know, some
of the issues with growing old and playing rock and
roll music and doing the show that they wanted to do,
the health problems he has that Roger Daltry, the singer has,
you know, the issues they had with their drummer, Zach,
who they ended up sacking after many years, and how
(11:32):
they went about selecting material for this vital run up shows,
which is now done. I saw the one at Fenway
and it was really quite terrific. The sound there was wonderful,
as people who in the friendly probably know, and you
know you're watching from a distance that's not good. But nevertheless,
(11:52):
it felt great to be in the midst of that
music once again. And I think I got to be honest,
I mean, I felt a real connection, maybe and more
so because I had just sought to him a couple
of weeks before that. It had an idea of what
was going on in his mind in terms of putting
this final shebang together, and you know, the the mountains
(12:14):
they had to overcome and doing it. And he has
always been very open about those kind of things. And
you know, in fact, the first interview I did with
him was in New York. I think it was eighty five,
and you know, he had just written a book and
it dealt a lot with his addiction. Not necessarily his
(12:35):
per se, but the subject was addiction, and he was
certainly drawing from his own experience. And you know, that
was pretty heavy stuff to go through to, you know,
to be in a first encounter to have all of
that kind of come out. But I you know, command
him for it, and you know his honesty and forthrighters
in discussing all of that, Why.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
You supposed so many rock stars get addicted? Is it
because it's going on I'm risk too, or because they
talk about pressure, but a lot of people have pressure?
Is because it's available and all around. What does your
take on why that is?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
My take is that it's a lot less prevalent now
than it used to be. I think the generation several
generations I guess that are up there now are much
more I think aware of the dangers and the pitfalls
that come. I think, you know, the people now that
are doing it are much more. I think they've got
their nose to the grindstone a little bit more than well,
(13:31):
you know, something up their nose perhaps, But I think
back in the if you will, the seventies and eighties, nineties.
I mean, when these guys were getting all the success.
You know, there's for one thing, it's free, right Often
if you're a rock star, there's people wanting to give
it to you. Townsend said that was a problem too.
(13:52):
People would come up to them and go, you know, hey,
you know I've got whatever, cocaine, heroin, whatever it might be.
And you know, so you have to have the discipline
to say, no, that's not good. I don't want to
do that, and part of you really does want to
do that. And Whose bass player John Atwhistle died from
an overdose of cocaine. After giving it up for a
(14:13):
long time, he decided, oh, one last bit before the
Who starts their tour. I guess it was a two
thousand and two tour, and it killed him. And of
course The Who's drummer Keith Moon died before that. Also,
drugs and alcohol involved in that.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I think it's been part of the rock culture for
so long, or especially back in those days, that I
think some people thought it was just sort of an
accepted cost of doing business in a way, And of
course a lot of fun up until it wasn't. And
you know the famous Aerosmith line. I think I don't
know if it was Joe Perry or Steve Tyler, but
(14:52):
the thing about them, we used to be musicians doing drugs,
and then we became drug add explained music. And one thing, yeah,
I mean, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
One thing that people don't understand is the extreme boredom
of going on tour. That's part one and part two,
the extreme letdown after the show is over. You might
think you'd be all glowy and welcoming people, but you
know what, it's a letdown. You travel. You traveled all
day in the band. Maybe if you're rich, you travel
(15:24):
in a plane, but still you're traveling. You don't really
see the city. You go to another club, then there's
the adrenaline of the gig, and then it's a huge letdown,
like what, No, I just got to go back to
the hotel and I gotta get on a bus or
a plane and go somewhere else, some nameless city and
(15:44):
do it all over again. Some of these people have
one hundred stop tours, one hundred and fifty stop tours,
and it's just gotta be so grueling that I would
think that would be kind of a major factor some
the dude to get through the border. I'm in the gruelingness.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I think you're very right. For a lot of people,
that's it, I mean, the highest incredible being on stage
and the adjustment from not being on stage. I can't
tell you how many people I've talked to, and actually
recently Nicky Dolan's of the Monkeys, who was in town
playing City Winery last night and tonight, actually saw him
(16:23):
last night. I talked to him for a while and
he's talked to me about that whole thing about I mean,
he's eighty years old, Nicky, and he sounds great and
he's really enthusiastic about playing. But it really is that,
you know, hour and a half that he's on stage
where he comes alive and the rest of it, and
especially the older you get, the more grueling it gets you.
(16:45):
As you mentioned there, that were grueling. Yeah, you know
that's the part that you know, everybody would like to
skip if they can't, but it's necessary, as you say,
to get from city to city. So it's sort of like,
you know, the part of your day that is focused
and intense is relevantly a short period of time compared
(17:06):
to what most people do for their eight hour jobs,
whatever it might pay. And then you've got a lot
of time, a lot of downtime. And I know for Nikki,
for instance, one of the things is the family, both well,
his sister things with him, tours with him, but the
extended family that a band can bring, and he and
his back and then are very close. And I mean
(17:27):
they dine together, they hang together, they talk all the time.
And I think to have that kind of support system,
familial support system, when you're on the road, it's very
integral to doing it and wanting to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, you know, a long time ago I kind of
wondered why would a man bring their family onto it?
But now, in my wisdom, I kind of get it.
I kind of see why, Oh, there'd be somebody to
talk to, somebody, you know, you're not all alone. You're
not going to go do necessarily such bad And of
course this is interesting. It must be interesting to be
(18:04):
Mickey Donalds on the backside of a career. He's not,
you know, flying first class. Probably he's probably low budgeting it,
and that's going to be an entirely different thing when
you get to the level of playing the tops Field Fair,
and I love the tops Field Fair, but you know
what I mean, it's got to be an entirely different thing.
I have a hard news break at thirty one, so
(18:24):
I don't want to get us involved in another question.
But I just want you to take this time to
tell folks where to get the book. And we'll do
this two or three times. I hope, where can you
get your book? Because it's not the traditional.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Way the book.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
They were both published in twenty twenty three, so they're
not likely to be found in your bookstore. I will
have to say that. I will say you can get
them the publisher, which is a trouserpressbooks dot com, or
the Amazon or Apple Music online. There are plenty of
ways to get it perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Now, let's have a drumm roll and find out if
the government shut down is now over or not.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Night Died with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Let's continue with the rock writer Jim Sullivan. He's got
a lot of stories about a lot of interesting interactions
with some big famous people, and we'll continue. I guess
with the clash we all we've talked about. Pete Townsend
had a little bit a little different direction, Jim, if
we could talk about your interactions with the Clash and
by the way, London Calling by the Clash is my
(19:36):
go to karaoke song, And I'm gonna ask you at
this point what is your go Do you ever do karaoke? Jim?
I would love to see it, and what would you say?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I do not. My wife did it once at a
bar next to the Paradise where we went after a
Stiff Little Finger show and Jake Burns from sci Little
Fingers joined us and Rosa my wife the things. You're
just terrific and great, but I would very much the
observer in that count.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You are in the business, don't you think people are
quite forgiving?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Not really, not in that case, especially with cell phone cameras,
videos that wouldn't happen. All right, let's dig down anyway
into the Clash the Clash. I saw them nineteen seventy
nine the Harvard Square Theater, which no longer exists. It
was their first Boston appearance. I think it was maybe
the fourth US show, and the anticipation for that was
(20:37):
just immense around town. That was also the time with
the WBCN strike, which is a whole other topic which
probably we don't need to get into right now, but
there was that going on at the same time.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
For those of you don't know, WBCN at the time
until two thousand and nine was the premiere rock station,
and it was one of the three or four big
ones in the country that kind of wrote new music.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Is true, That is true, very yeah. They were very
much a supporter of the Clash and the class, very
much a supporter of BCN. And I will never forget
the way they took the stage with I'm So Bored
with the USA, and the idea that they would hit
the States with this song about being bored by the States,
(21:22):
and this song was actually more about being bored with
American TV, which got pumped into England constantly, so they
had all these cop shows and they just sort of
went back enough of all that. And this is kind
of a funny little anic that I was talking to
Joe Strummer and the late singer guitarists for The Clash
about that song, and it started off he said it
(21:44):
was just sort of a love song or an anti
love song, where it was I'm so bored with you,
and somewhere in the writing process it mutated from that
kind of a simple statement like that into being bored
with the whole culture of the United States, and it
became a statement of sorts and the crowd went the
(22:05):
crowd went nuts. I mean it was just like we
were just so with them. We were bored too. I mean,
you know, it's like, we don't want her corporate rock music.
We want this punk rock from England or America wherever
it's coming from. And uh, it was just one of
the greatest times in my life. I really had, you know,
just so so so many great memories with that.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Did you did you interview them? Then?
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I did.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
I did.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
I talked to Paul, the bass player in Joe pretty extensive.
I did a big story for Sweet Potato at the time.
And then many years later post clash, I think it
would have been eighty nine, when he was playing with
his man the Muscalarios. They played the Paradise and we
were talking there and uh, you know, we're hitting it
off well, and he wanted to continue the night, so
(22:52):
we all went down to Foley's Bar in the downtown
crossing one there too, and uh, it was so I
mean I got it walking into the bar with you
know the punk rock or old man bar that it
was walking in with Strummer where all the punks are like,
oh my god, Joe Strummer is here in our little
dive bar.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
That is a huge, huge deal for people in the
rock You had to go to an old man dive
bar with Joe Strummer. That is just that one memory
would be enough for most people.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And the funny thing about it was, of course Joe
could not buy a drink all night. It was like
just people lining up in beers and it was just
one of those one of those great memories. I've gone
fortunate to me be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Okay, this is a good, good opportunity to make a comparison,
So you you we talked about Who first, and we
talked about the Clash. Now, was there would the Who
fall under the the category of the type of bands
that the Clash and other punk bands we're trying we're
trying to tear down, not not personally, but that their genre.
(23:59):
Were they diometrically opposed to that level? Would would Joe
Stromer be like anti who? H?
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think yes and no. And the no part of
it is because the Clash ended up opening up for
the Who on their on one of their tours. Actually
they played Madison Square Garden together. Uh, and they they
were indebted to The Who, to the Kinks, to mont
the Hoople, to many of the bands that came before them.
At the same time there they were trying to establish
(24:31):
a line between the old and the new, and uh,
there was this sort of a people joked about, you know,
the joke, I was a punk before you were a punk,
and it's like, when did you become a punk rocker?
So I was there in seventy six? Man, oh yeah,
were you, well, maybe seventy seven or seventy a. And
you know, it's like this badge of I was there
(24:52):
at the beginning of it all.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Speaking of that badge, the first Pestols show, probably seven
million people say they were there, and of course they
were probably only room for two hundred or something like that.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Which show I'm sorry what you said.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
The Sex Missiles first show. There are so many people
will say they were at the first show or at
one of those early shows in England. It's what is it,
it's attendance inflation.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I was at their first US show in Atlanta, No, no, lie,
And it was really just by happenstance. The reason I
was in Atlanta was to visit a friend, college friend
and the of the class. I'm sorry. The Tostoles were
going to play Atlanta like the third or fourth date
on their tour, but because of visa problems, because of
(25:39):
their criminal background Malcolm McLaren screwing things up their manager,
Atlanta ended up being the first date. And I ended
up in line when I got to Atlanta with my
friend Lesley, and we just stood in line. We bought
tickets the show as long as all that. We bought
tickets for two tickets for eighty dollars from a kid
(26:00):
in mine who wanted to have eighty dollars more than
he wanted to see the Sex Pistoles. And we were
there early enough. We were like, I think it's third
fourth row of I mean, not that it was seated,
it was all standing up, but we were like right
in the pack of that, and it was just so
much fun. And I remember talking to one an older
gentleman who had been a fan of Back to the
Who in the mid sixties, and he was there for
(26:23):
the Pistols in seventy seventy eight, and he said to me,
this is just like it was with the Who. It
feels just the same vibe for me. And so there
you go. I mean there is a connection between the
music's and the energy and the right. Yeah, you know,
controversy as supposed to just unbelievable stories.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I never I never interviewed Jack John Lyden. I did
get to have sushi with him one time, which is
which is better than nothing, but nothing like that. We
have Stephen Brockton who wants to check in. Hi Steve, say,
how did Jim? Jim Sullivan?
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Hi Bradley, Hi Jim, how you doing?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Steve?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Good good? Can you hear me? All right?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Sure can good?
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Good? Yeah? I'm my famous person i've met is Keith Riches.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Oh that's big December eighteen, his birthday same as mine. Wow,
So tell us the stories. Tell us the stories.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Steve Well, he's a friend of mine, is a pilot
and he sometimes flies famous people around and he'll call
me and tell me if I can get, if I
can make it, I get, I get to go along,
not so much lately with all the airline stuff that's happened.
But he really don't do it anymore. But he called
me up out of the blue, one day and just
told me that I'm going to Math's venue. You want
(27:44):
to go to Moth's Vine and says, yeah, I'll go
to Maths in't but I met him ut in Norwood.
We jumped in the plane, flew with mathas Vinnys. We
go go to Keith. We saw Keith was already there.
At one time. It was two different times actually, so
one time the plane, Yes, I did, I lijet, Oh.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
My god, did you?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I was like dropping I was dropping out.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I was like, I.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Can't believe this.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You wouldn't tell me.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
He didn't tell me. My buddy didn't tell me until
I get into plane, and I'm going, what the hell
is it? We didn't tell me. It was supposed to
be Keith Richards. I'm going I was dying because he's
a big, some big fan.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You know. So were you sitting in the co pilots
saying or were you sitting back with Keith Richards?
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Well, from time to time, from time to time, confidentially
between you and me and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Was listening, I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I would get to sit I would get to sit No, no, no, no,
I would get to sit in the in the passenger
seat because they need to balance the plane we have.
They have to keep it level, so they that's really
why I was there.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I was like, luggage, so Keith.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
A couple of times. I did I actually get to
talk to him? Dude, you say, well, I was so
stop struck. I didn't. I didn't know who was say right.
So I got to take his bag off the jet
because he was over in one of those nasty macus
Yard Airport advance, those Dodge vands. This is a nasty,
nasty thing to send out to get Keith, but it
kind of fits him. I was supposed to go get
(29:12):
his bag out of the plane and bring him his bag.
So I go get his bag and don't drop. That
bag had a big bottle of wine in it. So
I bring him over with the bag. He was already
in the in the in the in the van, so
I hand it in the bag. I saw the wine
in there, And when he reached for the for the
for the wine, he took a little extra time because
he showed me his sculler ring, like real slowly, and
(29:34):
I was like, oh, look at that. It's a sculler ring.
I don't believe it. He just like moving it around,
you know, watch me freak out. He knows, he goes, Yeah,
he goes, he goes. He says to me, he goes.
I need that for the old lady. I gotta bring
that for the old lady.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
A stellar, sterling story.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
Actually, actually there's a whole lot more, but uh, I
just tell her tell you sometime.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But huh, well, we'll save I really appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Yeah, but the high point quickly, just quickly, the high point. Yeah,
the high point was I got to ride in in
the van to his vacation home, no into that, no nothing,
and he smoked h lucky strike or a camel no
filter in the van, and I got to Inhale Keith
(30:25):
Ridge's secondhand tobacco's.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I completely get that. It's very likely that, Yeah, I
completely I did something similar. It's likely that you actually
got some off Keith Richard's molecules inside your body and
which changed your DNA.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
A little bit. I anserly felt really cool. I don't
know what it was.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
That's great story. I appreciate that. WHOA, look at the time,
we have so much more to cover with uh, Jim
Jim Sullivan, rock Rider, He's got more stories. I'll tell
you that I hope you're not in a hurry.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Jim, No, I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Cool. Let's take this break on w b Z.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Thanks for being on night Side Battle and Jay for Dan.
Where with Jim Sullivan And I want to before we
go back to Jim, tell you a little bit more
about the book. Some of the people that Jim Is
interacted with. Our list them here, Jerry le Lewis and Hunter,
David Bowie, Iggy Pop Lou read stories about these people,
and may I add that Jim has the added advantage
(31:35):
of actually being a writer. A lot of people write
books about rock then aren't not really writers. But because
Jim is an expert and excellent writer, the whole thing
is a breeze that it's just clever and well done
and not filled with cliches, and it's just wonderful book.
And by the way, it's called Backstation Beyond forty five
(31:56):
years of Rock, Chats and Rants. Let me get to
some of the other people in there, because there are
rock and roll folks for all ends of the spectrum.
Jerry Lee Lewis, Ian Hunter, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed,
Brian Eno, Brian Ferry, The A, Roxy Music Guys, That
(32:17):
Roxy Music Guy, h King, Crimson, Peter Gabriel, Jethro Tal,
Ginger Baker, The Caream Drummer, Ringo Star Warren Zevon, very underrated,
Pete Townsend, The Kinks, Both Ray and Dave and Leonard Cohen,
Maryanne Faithful, John Fogerty of Creden's, Tina Turner, Neil Young,
Richard Thompson, Darlene Love, Alice Cooper, Jay Giles, Aerosmith, Kiss, Motorhead,
(32:41):
George Clinton. I interviewed George Clinton, Tangerine Dream and a
bunch More, I Won't The Cure, Gang of Four, Alvis Costello,
Beastie Boys, Somebody for Everybody There and again. These are
all glued together by excellent breezy writing. It's a complete
no brainer, great for you, great for a gift, and
(33:04):
it's available on by way of Trouser Press Books or
as I understand, on Amazon. There. Now we cover that
a little bit. Now, let's squeeze in one more cool
story before the top of the air. Jim and I
hope you can. If you're not doing anything, maybe you
can stay after.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Two, I can I can do that. Let me do
I was thinking of this while you were reeling off
the list there, Bradley, and thanks for There are a
ton of people in there. I think eighty one chapters
of something, considering both books and the e book. Ellis
Cooper this from the from the book itself. I just
(33:43):
popped up a quote that I had and was asking
about the early days and how much they were hated
by people, and he said, oh, gosh, yeah, we weren't
just hated by the establishment. We were hated by rock.
When we came out and we did the outrageous stage show,
it was heralding to all the bands, the grateful Dead
dance like that, that their era was over. Bands like
that hated us. Until you have a hit record, you're
(34:05):
basically an outsider. Well then you have a hit record
and two or three, and all of a sudden, you're
not an outsider and you are now what's going on?
And now you have to do a show. If you
want to stay with it, you have to do a show. Yeah,
and that was that's very very true.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Look at ghosts or did he have to create his
own little niche? He wasn't he wasn't punk. He wasn't
he wasn't the battle progressive rock. He wasn't punk. He
wasn't really Ozzy Osbourne, or was he. I mean, maybe
that's as close as maybe that's.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Just that would be.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
That would be close Aussie. I think I think Alice,
you know, he and the band. I mean, the band
was called Alice Cooper, and yeah he was he took
the name Alice Cooper from his given name, Vince Vernier.
But you know, they did something very early on the
very few we're doing, and I mean they used theatrics.
They used a grotesque imagery, the executions, the mock executions
(35:07):
that happened, hanging guillotine in the end of the night,
songs like Dead Babies, I Love the Dead. They were
going out on a limb, and you know I loved it.
I mean I was a kid who loved that kind
of rebellion and loved the kind of hard rock energy
he brought to it. And I got to tell you this,
probably one of the best two days of my life
were a couple of years ago when I got to
(35:29):
play golf with him. He was in town with the
Hollywood Vampires, the Bandits with Johnny Depp and Joe Perry
and Alice is a golfer, big time golfer, and he
wanted to play, and his people got in touch with
me and said, hey, do you have any time would
you like to golf with Alice? I said yeah, I
think let me check. Yeah, I think I can do that.
(35:49):
And we played on a Monday. He was in town
for the week getting ready for the show and doing
some stuff, so he was around. We played on a Monday,
got down the round and he said, you want to
play again before the show and I said, yeah, I
think I can do that too. So we played the
day of the show, the morning of the show, and
(36:09):
then we went to the show at night. And it
was so great because Alice during golf dressed like a golfer, frankly,
an old man golfer. You can you know, there are
pictures up on on online, uh. And then the transition
from that to the character that he plays in concert
with all the makeup and everything like that. It was
just fabulous. And there's pictures of me and him as golfers,
(36:32):
and then me and him at the show itself, backstage
before the show, and it's just pretty funny. All of
that happening in the same day.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Was intimidating golfing with Alice Cooper. You get up to
the t you know he's a good golf and I
have golf with you. I know I know what level
you're at or what level he used to be. Were
you intimidated ding off in front of Alice Cooper? Yes
or no?
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yes, yes and no. And here's the thing. You know
what I got to say, this.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Is a good We're going to find out why both
yes or no? Intimidating to golf with Alice Cooper with us?
After this, stay with us to find out what it's
like to do you offer Alice Cooper on WBZ This
is nights Side with Dan Ray. I'm Bradley Jane for Dan.
Let's hear some more rock stars with writer Jim Sullivan
on WBZ News Radio ten thirty
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