May 8, 2025 • 38 mins
On day two of the papal conclave where cardinals from around the world gather to vote on and select a new leader of the Catholic Church, the world saw white smoke emerge, signaling they have chosen the church’s new leader. For the first time in history a U.S. pontiff has been elected! American Cardinal Robert Prevost, now choosing the name Pope Leo XIV originally hails from Chicago. Pope Leo XIV is considered a centrist but, on many issues, seen as more of a progressive, however he opposes ordaining women as deacons, so he’s considered more conservative on church doctrine. We discussed the new leader of the Catholic Church and what we can expect from him in the future!
Guests: Prof. Thomas Groome & Prof. Mary-Anne Glendon.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Guests: Prof. Thomas Groome & Prof. Mary-Anne Glendon.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Belgium Baby Boston
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, last night we talked about the Conclave, which was
still in session, and today the conclave spoke with us
from last night, and I really appreciate him coming back
tonight just for a brief conversation, Professor Thomas Groom. Professor Groom,
I'm sure you did more than a few interviews today.
So I don't know what what what the number is
(00:29):
so far, but I hope with the last one.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I probably got about it. We've probably got about a
dozen done Dan. So if I don't make him in
a good sense, or if I'm bump up on it
somehow put off, but okay, So it was a great day.
It was a great day and a very surprising day.
You know, it's it's it wasnton while we were expecting
Dan and Wasson, while we were predicting, and yet it
seems it's in some ways it seems like a no
(00:51):
brainer at this stage. And you know, he made all
the right in his opening speech. You know, he did
all the things we would want a new pope to
do out without in parts of dialogue and bridge building.
You know that he wants the church to be a
synodol church. In other words, as you were cautious to
redefine that last night, I mean the church that works together,
(01:12):
that works well together. Uh, you know, there'd be a
missionary church going out into the world rather than hiding
hiding behind the wall of the churches. And it was
interesting too his language pattern kept referring to women and men.
Now that'd be sound like a very small point, but
most people who are committed to the introdusivity to men
and women, men and women. But he said women and men,
(01:33):
and lots of young by students, for example, would put there.
That would be their language pattern, in other words, affirming
that the dignity of women and trying to re establish
it in the pattern of the language. That was interesting.
One of the funnest things that I found out about
him then is that he's a trombone player, a very
accomplished trombone jazz player. Can you believe it? The anchors
(02:00):
he anchored festivals. He anchored trombone jazz festivals in Chicago
when he lived there in the seventies and eighties, And
he used to play under the pseudonym of Bobby Proud,
which of course is Robert Prevost, But he was famous
in the Chicago music scene as a trombone player, and
(02:20):
in fact, he has brought a trombone with him to
the Vatican. Now there's a new moment for the church.
I mean, someone said very endearing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Someone said today that he grew up in the South Side,
but nonetheless he was a Cubs fan, which I thought
was interesting. So here's my question, and I know you'll
give me an honest answer. You're a young man, young
in spirit and young in many ways. Did you ever
think that in your lifetime you would see an American
(02:51):
the pulp of the Roman.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Catholic No, no, no, we never thought. Only because you know, America,
we can't take over the world, you know, President our
president wants to take it over politically. Well, we can't
take it over religiously. And and we yeah, well I
always thought that. I never thought I would see the day.
And in some ways, you know, he's he's not He's American.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Barnard raised in Chicago but spent a lot of his
life in Peru and is a Peruvian. Uh is a
Pruvian citizen. So it's not quite like somebody just if
they had elected you know, the current archbishop or the
Krolinis Bishop of Chicago, who would have been a fine candidate,
by the way, that would be different. But this is
a little this is a little more nuanced than simply saying, well,
(03:38):
he's American, he's American, he's American. Well he is, but
he's he's more than an international person at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
He also started.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Out he started out in Chicago the way I started
out in Ireland. But yeah, you know, now here fifty
years so I think of myself as an American, but.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
He he also walked this very different path. Normally, the popes,
at least that I'm familiar with in my lifetime, whether
I think of you know, John Paul two, who was
Polish through and through, uh, you know, fought the Nazis, uh,
fought the Communists, Uh, the the Archbishop Cardinal of Krakow. Uh.
(04:15):
He you knew where he was from, and obviously he
was a giant internationally because of the forces that he
had to do battle with. But the most recent pope,
Pope Francis, we knew where where he had come from.
He had dealt as a native, his family had come
from Italy, but he was still you know, American. Uh,
(04:39):
this is very much of a hybrid.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe an Internet maybe an international person,
you know, Uh that that's it's kind of a citizen
of the world. And of course his Augustinian Order is
worldwide and he was the he was the the Father
General of the Sinians for two different stints in office.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I know you were rooting for another Jesuit, but I
wonder if if well.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And the other thing I was rooting for, I wish
he'd come to VC rather going to Villanova.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Then well, I guess that too. I just that too.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
But then you know, there wasn't Maybe one of the
most symbolic things about it was the name he chose.
And I just want to take a minute on this
Leo the fourteenth, because Leo the thirteenth was the great
social justice bishop or cargo Bishop and pope. Back in
eighteen ninety one he issued this amazing in Physical Realum
(05:38):
Novarum where he basically called the church to social justice,
not just the compassion, but to social justice. That it
is not enough to simply feed hungry people. We have
to ask, well, why are they hungry in the first place?
What are the social political structures that are causing the hunger,
the deprivation of the injustice or the sexism, or whatever
the injustice might be, that it has to be addressed
(06:00):
structurally and socially as well as one on one. And
Leo's the thirteenth grade and cyclical was the reream navarum
that established in many ways, and then the Catholic social
teachings flow on from there. But it's interesting that bishop
that the current the new pope took the title of Leo,
(06:20):
and he'd be Leo the fourteenth But it was a
real signal that he intends to make social justice and
concern for the world and for the poor and the
downtroden of the margin life, that he wants that to
be a central aspect of his pontificate.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know what struck me today, and you're probably going
to laugh at me when I tell you this, but
when the curtain opened and we knew who it was,
or at least we knew his name when he walked out,
he seemed to exude a calmness and a kindness in
his just his expression. Now I don't know, you know
(06:54):
if I'm imagining that, but I just he seemed to
me to be a person at peace with himself and
at peace with his destiny.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, I was that's a very fine observation, Dan, I
think you're spot on. I think I hadn't thought of
it that way. But yes, his whole demeanor and his
whole way of handling it was just very reassuring that
this is not a pompous type of person at all.
He's somebody called by God now to render an extraordinary
(07:25):
service within human history, and he deserves our prayers, and
these are our prayers. But I think he will embrace
that that that task, that location, and in admirable ways
and in ways it will be tremendously life giving, not
only for Catholic faith in the Catholic community, but for
the life of the world.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Last question, Professor, and this probably is the toughest one.
The last quarter of a century has been a very
difficult time for the Roman Catholic Church in America for
the obvious reasons. What will contificate of this now sixty
nine year old pope who turned seventy in September. What
(08:06):
could this mean and what do you think it will
mean for the Catholic Church in America.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I'd love to think that it will spark a revival
Catholic faith, and that even Catholics that have given up
on the institution on the church. Obviously, lots of my
friends and students and so on will tell me that
giving up with the church. But I would say that
even if you give up with the church, don't give
up on your faith. Hold on to your faith. We
all need a transcendent horizon into which to live our lives.
(08:35):
And in Christian faith, we believe that it's a God
who is love and who was in love with us,
and who graces us all along the way. So it
can be a tremendously humanizing way to live one's life.
And I hope I can imagine a pope like this
leading us into that kind of realization, enabling people to
embrace lives of faith, even if they don't show up
with a local parish with her weekly envelope.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I remember standing on Boston Common, or actually on the
on top of the even Marsh Building, broadcasting the Mass
that Pope John Paul the Second said in October of
nineteen seventy nine on the Boston Common, and at that
time thinking to myself, what would the sisters of charity
think that I could stand here and maybe twenty five
(09:22):
or so years previously, I was a less than that.
Twenty years previously, I was at Saintian School in Reidville.
They never could have imagined this now, I think those
never could have imagined probably the fourteenth. Oh what a day.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
But the seeds say so, and people like yourself continue
to bear fruit. And I mean that's an old gospel image,
and even small seeds, according to Jesus, can grow into
a big tree. I think that's what you've done well.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I mean I am as imperfect a Catholic as you
could find, but I keep trying, trying to do better.
Let's put it like that, Professor Groom, it's been a
long day, a long few days for you. Get some rest.
I'm sure you'd be sought after again tomorrow. But thank
you for your time.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Last night I returned to obscurity. Thank you, Take care,
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So much, Professor Thomas Groom of a Boston College. When
we get back, we're going to talk with Professor Mary
and Glendon. She wrote a book. She was the US
Ambassador to the Vatican under the presidence of three Popes.
Her book is The Quote of Three Popes. She's a
Harvard law School professor, and she was US Ambassador of
(10:39):
the Vatican. After Ray, Flann, we'll talk with Mary and Glendon,
and if you'd like to join the conversation. I knew
that Professor Groom was somewhat limited in his time tonight
after having been as generous with this time last night,
So feel free let's light these phone lines up. What
did you think today? I mean, this is a stunning day.
There too many popes, too many times, those of us
(11:03):
who are Catholic or not Catholic, it doesn't matter. Watch
this ceremony with the white smoke and all of that.
I'd like we're going to talk about this for a while.
I sure hope you're going to participate. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty
those of the phone lines. We'll talk with Professor Mary
and Glendon, former US Ambassador to the Holy See to
(11:25):
the Vatican. Right after these messages, you're.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
On Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
We had joined delighted to be joined by Professor Mary
and Glendon of Harvard Law School. She has spent a
lot of time in Rome. She was the US ambassador
to the Vatican actually served under the under three popes
John Paul, the Second, Benedict and Pope Francis. Welcome, Professor Glendon,
(11:56):
how are you tonight.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
I'm great. Thank you for having me on your program.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You were very welcome. You've been with us before. The book.
It's the court of three popes. You know the inside
and the outside workings of the Vatican and the Holy
See and all of that, and you know the inside
of the outside workings of the Catholic Church of America.
I asked Tom Groom the same question. I'm going to
ask you the same question. Did you ever think that
(12:22):
in your lifetime you would see an American pope walk
out an American car to walk out as an American
pope after the white smoke had shown at the Vatican.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
No, I certainly never did expect to see an American pope.
But if you define American the way John Paul taught
us to do. He wanted us to think of America
as going from Hudson's May to Tierra del Fuego. And
if you think about it that way, the new Pope
(12:56):
is an American in the most capacious sense. He was
born in Chicago, grew up in Chicago, spent much of
his life in Peru, where he has dual citizenship with
the US and Peru, and had a long stint in
Rome where he was head of the Congregation of Bishops,
(13:17):
where a lot of these new bishops who became cardinals
and elected Pray Boast. He's probably the only guy they
knew in the Vatican. So you know, with hindsight, it
all sort of fits together.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
No, in retrospect, I see that, but as prospective I
didn't remember his name being mentioned on any of the shortlists,
at least that's the ones I saw.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Well, my son in law predicted it. Thomas Williams is
the Rome bureau chief, or was the Rome bureau chief
for the break Bart news agency, and he said, watch
Prevost And I said.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Nah, what.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
But for the reasons I just said, I think he
saw that before I did. It's a logical choice. And
also it's when you think that the great majority of
the cardinal electors are from the global South, and no
doubt are looking for somebody who has a heart for
(14:26):
the poor, the way Francis had a heart for the poor.
It makes sense that they would be drawn to somebody
who looks very much like a successor to Francis at
this point. He's a member of a religious order, as
Francis was, different order. He has a strong connection to
Latin America and the name he chose that it was
(14:50):
very significant Pope Leo the fourteenth, He certainly had in
mind Leo the thirteenth, who was the first to articulate
what we now know is the Catholic social teachings.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
What sort of an impact, I asked Tom groomed this
last hour, Professor groom from this last same half hour,
actually last twenty five years has been tough for the
Catholic Church. Churches have closed, parishes have consolidated, priests have left.
More priests have left than have joined. What is it
(15:26):
possible that this American pope could revitalize the Catholic Church
in America? Obviously his pontificate covers more than the United
States of America. We understand that, and there are parts
of the world where Catholicism is burgeoning right now, Africa
and Asia. But in America it's not in large part
(15:49):
because of everything that the Church has gone through here,
and many of it problems brought on themselves, not only
by unfaithful priests, but also religious leaders who failed to
take control of the situation. Could this make a huge difference,
that's my sense. I hope you're going to say yes,
but I'd be interested. Give me your honest feeling.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Well, we all like to see the church in America revitalized.
And I was watching crowds in Chicago. How I mean,
my goodness, you would think the White Sox are going
the pennant.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Let's not go that far. Now, let's not call that far, professor.
So they're they're like ten and twenty oh, ten and
twenty five, go ahead, a moment over kidding.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
They were so excited, and that was really heartwarming to see.
On your question, It's what makes it hard to answer
is that I think for many people it is possible
that it will be exciting to have a pope who's
very much in the vein of Pope Francis, but with
(16:59):
a stroke on connection to the United States. I think
that could have some real results, and I think in
another way, it might revitalize the church in the United States.
And thinking about it a little differently, when I grew
up in Western mass Dan, the popes were sort of
(17:21):
remote features that didn't have creatures who didn't have very
much to do with ordinary life in Berkshire County. And
you know, I think over time and over the past
few years, I do think American Catholicism you do see
a lot of rebirth and excitement in places like these
(17:43):
Catholic schools that are growing up that are so vibrant
around Boston. We see Saint Benedict's, for example. And it
may be that there will be two kinds of revitalization.
Part the excitement about having a pope born in the
United in the States, and the other a sense that, uh,
(18:04):
the church, after all is the people of God and
they're right here, and the American Church has great potential
to be more vibrant than it is now.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well, it's going to be a very interesting period for
the church. I mentioned this to uh Professor Groom as well.
I watched him come out on the balcony today to
greet the crowd, and he seemed to have a a serenity.
(18:34):
Obviously he was not he met the moment, I thought,
and I thought that that as I looked at him,
I felt that that people would will connect with him.
I don't know how to bet, how to describe it
any other than that. He just seemed to handle it
with with a lot of grace and dignity, and he
(18:56):
he pulled it off. And I watched the response of
people and young people in that crowd in Saint Peter's
in the piazza, and there were a lot of young
people who were thrilled to be part of that. So
maybe it is a bit of a renaissance for the
Catholic Church in America. We'll have to see.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
We can always hope, So no.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
No question about it. When you were over there, you
got to meet three of the popes at various times.
Who would this pope, in your opinion, be closest to
You knew three popes and probably other popes than that,
but you knew John Paul the second, you knew Pope Benedict,
(19:39):
and you knew Pope Francis.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah, I think he is very much like a successor
to Francis. And I think I mean he's going to
feel close to Francis in another way because that you
have to pray for him when he wakes up tomorrow morning.
(20:03):
He may have been in surre seren when he came
out on the balcony, but when he wakes up tomorrow morning.
He's got two big sets of challenges that Francis, to
his credit, worked hard on and was barely able to
make a dent in. And one is, as it's increasingly
(20:24):
coming out in the press, is that the Vatican is
in severe financial distress. It has a huge deficit, it
has no realistic plans for fixing it. And just in November,
Pope Francis announced that the pension fund for Vatican employees
is in trouble and will not be able to meet
(20:46):
its obligations to its retired votes within what he said
is the medium term, which everybody thinks means within the
next ten years. So Pope Leo the fourteenth has a
big financial headache. I mean, there just has to be
I hope the cardinals talked about this when they were
(21:08):
in conclave. There has to be something done because things
are going downhill fast. And the other big challenge, and
again Francis worked on this, but it's what I would
call the Vatican deep state. There is a bureaucracy over
there in its own culture, and even a pope, Pope
(21:30):
Francis even at times felt defeated by it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, that's what's called the Curia. If I'm not mistaken,
that's what's called the Curia, right, No problem, okay, Professor Glendon,
Mary and Glendon. The book has a lot of relevance
the Court of Three Popes. I'm sure that is still
available through Amazon and places like that. I appreciate you
taking the time to chat with us tonight. I always
(21:57):
enjoy talking with you. Your experience is amazing, and their
experience both as a lawyer, as a professor, and as
a diplomat. Thank you so much for your time tonight.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
It's my pleasure, Dan, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
All right, we're going to take a quick break here.
It is nine thirty four, so we are a little
bit late for the news at the bottom of the hour.
That's okay. Now it is up to you. I want
to know your thoughts. What did you think when you
heard the news today? Where were you? It came out
of the blue. I was watching one of the midday
(22:30):
newscasts and they actually broke into the CBS news, breaking
into channel four. Uh, and the network just took it
over and told us that the white smoke had appeared
and that a new pope had been chosen. And that's
been my day since twelve oh eight. I suspect it's
probably been a lot of your day six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
(22:53):
If you're a Catholic, you can celebrate. If you're a
non Catholic, you can tell us exactly what you think.
And if you're a falling away Catholic, does this inspire
you to give the church a second look, particularly now
that we have the first American pope in history, in history.
But back on Nightside, light the lines up. Let's hear
from you. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
If you're on night Side with Dan Ray on w
b Z, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
All right, well, my lines are quiet. That's not good.
That's not good. If you happen to be someone who
is a practicing Catholic, I assume that tonight you welcome this,
particularly in view of the fact that there is a
an American who now is the head of the church
(23:43):
to which you belong. If you're falling away Catholic, and
again I'm not going to talk religion per se, but
I'd love to know, does this make a difference to you?
Is this the sort of a decision made by the
higher ups of the Catholic Church, the College of cars
that might induce you to, after having been away, give
(24:04):
the church a try. If you're a young person. This
pope is sixty nine years of age, which, obviously, as
I refer to it as the wrong side of fifty,
he is a young person in terms of the age
of a pope. It's conceivable, very conceivable that he would
(24:26):
be a pope for at least ten, maybe fifteen. Who knows,
potentially even longer twenty years. I mean, people are living
longer these days. Does it make a difference. I think
that as somebody who just looks at it from a
decision point of view, that the College of Cardinals they
(24:48):
believe that they're guided by They will tell you the
Holy Spirit. And again, you don't have to be a
Catholic to believe that, by the way, and don't even
have to believe it if you are Catholic. But they
met for a little over twenty four hours, and this
is the decision they came to. There were a variety
(25:09):
of other options that they could have chosen, and many
of them would have been perfectly acceptable. I'm surprised, I
must tell you that I never thought that I would
see an American pope in my lifetime. I was joking
with Professor Tom Groom last night that Timothy Dolan of
(25:30):
New York, and most of you probably don't know who
a lot of these folks are, but Dolan is the
Cardinal of New York and he's a very garrulous, fun guy.
If you can talk about cardinal as being a fun guy.
I see him on television all the time. He hosts
the presidential debate, the dinner every year, the Al Smith,
(25:53):
not every year, every fourth year, the Al Smith dinner,
the one that President Trump attended, and the dinner that
Vice President Harris chose not to attend. So I'm interested.
I'm also interested in the perspective of non Catholics and
atheists and agnostics as to how this plays. And the
(26:18):
reason I say that, and I'm challenging you at this
point is I was very surprised and gratified, to be
honest with you, at the amount of coverage this whole
period of the last few weeks has received. From the
time that people came to understand that Pope Francis was
(26:42):
not only not healthy, but he was seriously ill, and
even when he did get out of the hospital after
his two months day, your sense was that his days
were numbered, And of course he died the morning after Easter,
which within the Catholic churches and within Christianity is incredibly symbolic.
(27:02):
So then they had the Conclave, and those of you
who have seen the movie Conclave, and I watched it,
I'm gonna guess six months ago or three or four
months ago, and I thought it was pretty good, and
it certainly had the scenery down. I'm assuming, and I
don't know this, by the way, I'm assuming that they
were given permission to suit to shoot some of it
(27:25):
on the on the property of the Vatican. It's this
this city, state or country. It's the smallest country in
the world, but it is a country nonetheless. Uh. And
it's to me, I just I'm fascinated by this because
even though it's really it's a religion, which clearly it is,
(27:46):
there are political overtones. I mean, you talk about this
pope or that pope. Were they more conservative, were they progressive?
Were they liberal? Social justice? Many of the issues that
Francis Pope Francis would talk about were based in politics
as well as theology. Certainly in our lifetime, the Pope
(28:13):
from Poland, Pope John Paul the Second was an extraordinarily
political a person because of where he lived. In Poland,
he had to deal with the Nazi occupation before and
during World War two, the invasion of his country. He
was a young man at the time. And then once
(28:36):
the war ended and the Nazis were defeated, the Russians
came in and they took over, and life under Hitler
and Stalin was oppressive in both instances, in both in
both places, in both both time periods, and yet he
was able to walk that balance. So so this, this is,
(28:57):
this is I think it's historic us. It's it's to me.
It's a huge story. I hope some of you can
can understand what I'm saying, and I hope some of you,
more of you will join me. I'd like to. I
would love to talk about this for a while, because
I think it is something that if we don't talk
about it, we're missing a very important story. This has
(29:20):
an important it's an important story to people in Ukraine
today who are waking up now on Friday morning and
dealing with the fact that there now is an American
who's the pope again. I don't want to overpoliticize it,
but I don't want to underpoliticize it. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
(29:43):
If this was irrelevant to you today, I think you're
missing a big story. I really do. Uh. And if
you if it was irrelevant to you today, tell me why.
And I suspect some of you feel that way. Feel free.
Let's talk about it back on Night's Side right after
this very quick break, and we will talk about this
for a while. I want to hear from as many
(30:03):
of you as possible. This is a story that I
feel my audience needs to understand and I need to understand.
And that's what we're going to do for a while
back at nights Side after.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
This Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
My lines have filled up and I'm gratified for that.
So I'm going to try to get at least two
or three folks in here before the ten. Let me
start off with Peggy, who was calling in from West Roxbury. Peggy,
welcome to Nightside. How are you?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Thank you? Dan? I'm fine. I just thought i'd like
to give an opinion ahead.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I'm all ears, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Okay, you you mentioned doesn't mean this much to Catholics,
to filing away Catholics, to prodisses. I grew up a
very strong Catholic.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
I still consider myself a churchgoer when I can get there.
About twenty five years ago, when the problems in the
church started, it affected my family through my son, who
(31:21):
was working in a rectory when he was thirteen years old.
It took twenty years of our lives. My son lost
his wife, family home, or when he became conscious of
what had happened in his Lord.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
By the way, through no fault of his own.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
No, no, definitely not. However, without going into any detail,
I'll tell you I have ten children, and the tenth
one just informed me that she knows Lunger is going
to church. The other nine had already stopped going to church.
And when you think of the amount, very.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Very understandable what happened to their family. Absolutely right.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
It's like saying the emperor has no clothes. All of
a sudden, we realize the people, some of whom I know,
they're a wonderful priests, but some of whom had I
thought given up their lives to serve God were so.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Let me ask you. Let me ask you this, Peggy does,
does the selection of this American today, American by birth
is pope? Does that say to you there's still hope
for the church or do you think the church at
this point is a flawed organization?
Speaker 5 (32:45):
That Oh, I would say it's very flawed. I don't
care if he's American or Russian or African. I don't
see what it can do to make things better. I
think they would have to admit to every problem they
had in that field, which some still do not do.
(33:07):
So anyway, I just want you to know that in
my particular case, in my families, it does not make
a bit of difference through the pope. He seems like
a very nice man. I hope he is well.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I'm hoping you want to get as many different you
want to get as many different points of view, including
your estate. Appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Thank you, Dan, have a great night.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Okay, keep listening to night Side.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Good bye.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Okay, let me go, Let me say good night to
Peggy and let me go. Next. I want to go
to Kevin in South Carolina real quickly, Kevin, you were
next on nightsig.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Go right ahead, Hi again. We were always told he
would never be an American because we had world power,
and the Pope will never be from a world power.
So I'm pretty much shocked. I'm brilliant shocked. I paid
a little attention to it. This guy came out of
nowhere to be like a little league of being in
the World Series, the home run that wins the game.
Don't you didn't expect him. He wasn't even name the
(33:59):
test anything I heard before, right out of nowhere. And
you know, you and I now are officially old because
the Pope is younger than us.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I know that's that's that happens. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
And the last quick thing, I think the White Sox
are all set for the World Series. I'm sure he'll
send the papal blessing to put it in the locker
room and they'll just go through it.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Don't bet any money in the White Sox. They're a
bad baseball team, although they have some They are four
really good young pitchers from Massachusetts. If you know that roster, it's.
Speaker 6 (34:32):
Going to take a while to learn about him because
I can make no decision on him at all because
he's just totally out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
All right, Kevin, thank you so much for checking in
from South Carolina. You never disappoint it.
Speaker 6 (34:43):
And data was eighty five today in Sonny.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Sorry to tell you that's okay. It's it's been rainy
all week up here. You're a wise man, Kevin. Thanks buddy,
we'll talk soon. That's a great one. Be well, call
more often. Let me go to my friend Harvey, Silverglade, Cambridge.
Harvey is not a Catholic for any of you who
might be interested, Harvey, welcome, go right ahead, sir.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
It seems to me they're given a number of cardinals
that the prior pope appointed.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yes, he has changed the face of the Catholic Church
for a century. That's a that's an interesting observation. Uh
you know, yeah, this pope will be able to also
replenish as these cardinals age out, and I think, uh,
(35:36):
they generally age out at eighty. They remain cardinals, but
they can't vote. I think probably the next conclave, which
won't be for some time hopefully. Uh yeah, there'll be
there'll be a new a Newbury group in there. But yeah,
that's that's an interesting I had not thought of it
that way, Harve. You very perspective, very very perspective.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I should say, it's it's makes the Jewish guy in
a different light.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Well, as I tell all of my friends, Harvey, and
you've heard me say that before. The guy that founded
my church happened to be Jewish and his parents were Jewish.
So I think we're all kind of somehow affected and related. Okay,
I think you know how I feel about that stuff.
As always, my friend, you're the best. Thanks. Thanks, that's
(36:25):
a great perspective. I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't
thought of that. It's a amazing, it's amazing. Thank you, Thanks, Harvey.
We'll talk soon. Okay, right, oh, thank you much. Let
me get in here real quickly. Going to go to
Florence and Groveland, Florence. I got a couple of minutes
for you. Don't have to don't want you to have
to wait. You go right ahead.
Speaker 7 (36:44):
Okay, thank you, Dan. I wanted to call in. I
had been praying for Pope Francis to get better than
he did and left the hospital and the day he
passed away, and I told my son when he came home,
(37:07):
he was shocked because he said he did ask and
now he's gone. And I think today what has occurred.
This is absolutely wonderful. And I am not Catholic. Then
I grew up in English household grant my parents and grandparents, okay,
(37:32):
and we're Protestant, but I have Catholic friends and Jewish friends.
And also my husband was Catholic. And then after my husband,
I had mentioned, I had a boyfriend for ten years
(37:53):
he was Catholic. So I'm familiar.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
You're very act, You're very ecumenical, which is good, Florence.
We're flat running out of time here, so i'd love
to get just a final quick word from you on
was today a good day or a not so good
day in your opinion?
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Perfect day? It was wonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
That's great, and I.
Speaker 7 (38:18):
Think this was meant to be.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Well, there are those who are convinced of that, Florence.
I'm flat out of time. I got to let you run.
As always, I got you, and I didn't want you
have to wait through the news. We'll talk soon. Okay,
thanks so much, we'll talk soon. Have a great one.
Thanks for your call. Here comes to ten back right
after the only line six one, seven thirty. I want
to talk about this for a while, I really do.
I want to hear as many perspectives as possible. This
(38:41):
is an important day for America. It's important day for
the Catholic Church. It's important day for the world. Believe me,
that's true. Back on back after this
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Belgium Baby Boston
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, last night we talked about the Conclave, which was
still in session, and today the conclave spoke with us
from last night, and I really appreciate him coming back
tonight just for a brief conversation, Professor Thomas Groom. Professor Groom,
I'm sure you did more than a few interviews today.
So I don't know what what what the number is
(00:29):
so far, but I hope with the last one.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I probably got about it. We've probably got about a
dozen done Dan. So if I don't make him in
a good sense, or if I'm bump up on it
somehow put off, but okay, So it was a great day.
It was a great day and a very surprising day.
You know, it's it's it wasnton while we were expecting
Dan and Wasson, while we were predicting, and yet it
seems it's in some ways it seems like a no
(00:51):
brainer at this stage. And you know, he made all
the right in his opening speech. You know, he did
all the things we would want a new pope to
do out without in parts of dialogue and bridge building.
You know that he wants the church to be a
synodol church. In other words, as you were cautious to
redefine that last night, I mean the church that works together,
(01:12):
that works well together. Uh, you know, there'd be a
missionary church going out into the world rather than hiding
hiding behind the wall of the churches. And it was
interesting too his language pattern kept referring to women and men.
Now that'd be sound like a very small point, but
most people who are committed to the introdusivity to men
and women, men and women. But he said women and men,
(01:33):
and lots of young by students, for example, would put there.
That would be their language pattern, in other words, affirming
that the dignity of women and trying to re establish
it in the pattern of the language. That was interesting.
One of the funnest things that I found out about
him then is that he's a trombone player, a very
accomplished trombone jazz player. Can you believe it? The anchors
(02:00):
he anchored festivals. He anchored trombone jazz festivals in Chicago
when he lived there in the seventies and eighties, And
he used to play under the pseudonym of Bobby Proud,
which of course is Robert Prevost, But he was famous
in the Chicago music scene as a trombone player, and
(02:20):
in fact, he has brought a trombone with him to
the Vatican. Now there's a new moment for the church.
I mean, someone said very endearing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Someone said today that he grew up in the South Side,
but nonetheless he was a Cubs fan, which I thought
was interesting. So here's my question, and I know you'll
give me an honest answer. You're a young man, young
in spirit and young in many ways. Did you ever
think that in your lifetime you would see an American
(02:51):
the pulp of the Roman.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Catholic No, no, no, we never thought. Only because you know, America,
we can't take over the world, you know, President our
president wants to take it over politically. Well, we can't
take it over religiously. And and we yeah, well I
always thought that. I never thought I would see the day.
And in some ways, you know, he's he's not He's American.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Barnard raised in Chicago but spent a lot of his
life in Peru and is a Peruvian. Uh is a
Pruvian citizen. So it's not quite like somebody just if
they had elected you know, the current archbishop or the
Krolinis Bishop of Chicago, who would have been a fine candidate,
by the way, that would be different. But this is
a little this is a little more nuanced than simply saying, well,
(03:38):
he's American, he's American, he's American. Well he is, but
he's he's more than an international person at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
He also started.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Out he started out in Chicago the way I started
out in Ireland. But yeah, you know, now here fifty
years so I think of myself as an American, but.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
He he also walked this very different path. Normally, the popes,
at least that I'm familiar with in my lifetime, whether
I think of you know, John Paul two, who was
Polish through and through, uh, you know, fought the Nazis, uh,
fought the Communists, Uh, the the Archbishop Cardinal of Krakow. Uh.
(04:15):
He you knew where he was from, and obviously he
was a giant internationally because of the forces that he
had to do battle with. But the most recent pope,
Pope Francis, we knew where where he had come from.
He had dealt as a native, his family had come
from Italy, but he was still you know, American. Uh,
(04:39):
this is very much of a hybrid.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe an Internet maybe an international person,
you know, Uh that that's it's kind of a citizen
of the world. And of course his Augustinian Order is
worldwide and he was the he was the the Father
General of the Sinians for two different stints in office.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I know you were rooting for another Jesuit, but I
wonder if if well.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And the other thing I was rooting for, I wish
he'd come to VC rather going to Villanova.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Then well, I guess that too. I just that too.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
But then you know, there wasn't Maybe one of the
most symbolic things about it was the name he chose.
And I just want to take a minute on this
Leo the fourteenth, because Leo the thirteenth was the great
social justice bishop or cargo Bishop and pope. Back in
eighteen ninety one he issued this amazing in Physical Realum
(05:38):
Novarum where he basically called the church to social justice,
not just the compassion, but to social justice. That it
is not enough to simply feed hungry people. We have
to ask, well, why are they hungry in the first place?
What are the social political structures that are causing the hunger,
the deprivation of the injustice or the sexism, or whatever
the injustice might be, that it has to be addressed
(06:00):
structurally and socially as well as one on one. And
Leo's the thirteenth grade and cyclical was the reream navarum
that established in many ways, and then the Catholic social
teachings flow on from there. But it's interesting that bishop
that the current the new pope took the title of Leo,
(06:20):
and he'd be Leo the fourteenth But it was a
real signal that he intends to make social justice and
concern for the world and for the poor and the
downtroden of the margin life, that he wants that to
be a central aspect of his pontificate.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You know what struck me today, and you're probably going
to laugh at me when I tell you this, but
when the curtain opened and we knew who it was,
or at least we knew his name when he walked out,
he seemed to exude a calmness and a kindness in
his just his expression. Now I don't know, you know
(06:54):
if I'm imagining that, but I just he seemed to
me to be a person at peace with himself and
at peace with his destiny.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, I was that's a very fine observation, Dan, I
think you're spot on. I think I hadn't thought of
it that way. But yes, his whole demeanor and his
whole way of handling it was just very reassuring that
this is not a pompous type of person at all.
He's somebody called by God now to render an extraordinary
(07:25):
service within human history, and he deserves our prayers, and
these are our prayers. But I think he will embrace
that that that task, that location, and in admirable ways
and in ways it will be tremendously life giving, not
only for Catholic faith in the Catholic community, but for
the life of the world.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Last question, Professor, and this probably is the toughest one.
The last quarter of a century has been a very
difficult time for the Roman Catholic Church in America for
the obvious reasons. What will contificate of this now sixty
nine year old pope who turned seventy in September. What
(08:06):
could this mean and what do you think it will
mean for the Catholic Church in America.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I'd love to think that it will spark a revival
Catholic faith, and that even Catholics that have given up
on the institution on the church. Obviously, lots of my
friends and students and so on will tell me that
giving up with the church. But I would say that
even if you give up with the church, don't give
up on your faith. Hold on to your faith. We
all need a transcendent horizon into which to live our lives.
(08:35):
And in Christian faith, we believe that it's a God
who is love and who was in love with us,
and who graces us all along the way. So it
can be a tremendously humanizing way to live one's life.
And I hope I can imagine a pope like this
leading us into that kind of realization, enabling people to
embrace lives of faith, even if they don't show up
with a local parish with her weekly envelope.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I remember standing on Boston Common, or actually on the
on top of the even Marsh Building, broadcasting the Mass
that Pope John Paul the Second said in October of
nineteen seventy nine on the Boston Common, and at that
time thinking to myself, what would the sisters of charity
think that I could stand here and maybe twenty five
(09:22):
or so years previously, I was a less than that.
Twenty years previously, I was at Saintian School in Reidville.
They never could have imagined this now, I think those
never could have imagined probably the fourteenth. Oh what a day.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
But the seeds say so, and people like yourself continue
to bear fruit. And I mean that's an old gospel image,
and even small seeds, according to Jesus, can grow into
a big tree. I think that's what you've done well.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I mean I am as imperfect a Catholic as you
could find, but I keep trying, trying to do better.
Let's put it like that, Professor Groom, it's been a
long day, a long few days for you. Get some rest.
I'm sure you'd be sought after again tomorrow. But thank
you for your time.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Last night I returned to obscurity. Thank you, Take care,
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So much, Professor Thomas Groom of a Boston College. When
we get back, we're going to talk with Professor Mary
and Glendon. She wrote a book. She was the US
Ambassador to the Vatican under the presidence of three Popes.
Her book is The Quote of Three Popes. She's a
Harvard law School professor, and she was US Ambassador of
(10:39):
the Vatican. After Ray, Flann, we'll talk with Mary and Glendon,
and if you'd like to join the conversation. I knew
that Professor Groom was somewhat limited in his time tonight
after having been as generous with this time last night,
So feel free let's light these phone lines up. What
did you think today? I mean, this is a stunning day.
There too many popes, too many times, those of us
(11:03):
who are Catholic or not Catholic, it doesn't matter. Watch
this ceremony with the white smoke and all of that.
I'd like we're going to talk about this for a while.
I sure hope you're going to participate. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty
those of the phone lines. We'll talk with Professor Mary
and Glendon, former US Ambassador to the Holy See to
(11:25):
the Vatican. Right after these messages, you're.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
On Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
We had joined delighted to be joined by Professor Mary
and Glendon of Harvard Law School. She has spent a
lot of time in Rome. She was the US ambassador
to the Vatican actually served under the under three popes
John Paul, the Second, Benedict and Pope Francis. Welcome, Professor Glendon,
(11:56):
how are you tonight.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
I'm great. Thank you for having me on your program.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You were very welcome. You've been with us before. The book.
It's the court of three popes. You know the inside
and the outside workings of the Vatican and the Holy
See and all of that, and you know the inside
of the outside workings of the Catholic Church of America.
I asked Tom Groom the same question. I'm going to
ask you the same question. Did you ever think that
(12:22):
in your lifetime you would see an American pope walk
out an American car to walk out as an American
pope after the white smoke had shown at the Vatican.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
No, I certainly never did expect to see an American pope.
But if you define American the way John Paul taught
us to do. He wanted us to think of America
as going from Hudson's May to Tierra del Fuego. And
if you think about it that way, the new Pope
(12:56):
is an American in the most capacious sense. He was
born in Chicago, grew up in Chicago, spent much of
his life in Peru, where he has dual citizenship with
the US and Peru, and had a long stint in
Rome where he was head of the Congregation of Bishops,
(13:17):
where a lot of these new bishops who became cardinals
and elected Pray Boast. He's probably the only guy they
knew in the Vatican. So you know, with hindsight, it
all sort of fits together.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
No, in retrospect, I see that, but as prospective I
didn't remember his name being mentioned on any of the shortlists,
at least that's the ones I saw.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Well, my son in law predicted it. Thomas Williams is
the Rome bureau chief, or was the Rome bureau chief
for the break Bart news agency, and he said, watch
Prevost And I said.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Nah, what.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
But for the reasons I just said, I think he
saw that before I did. It's a logical choice. And
also it's when you think that the great majority of
the cardinal electors are from the global South, and no
doubt are looking for somebody who has a heart for
(14:26):
the poor, the way Francis had a heart for the poor.
It makes sense that they would be drawn to somebody
who looks very much like a successor to Francis at
this point. He's a member of a religious order, as
Francis was, different order. He has a strong connection to
Latin America and the name he chose that it was
(14:50):
very significant Pope Leo the fourteenth, He certainly had in
mind Leo the thirteenth, who was the first to articulate
what we now know is the Catholic social teachings.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
What sort of an impact, I asked Tom groomed this
last hour, Professor groom from this last same half hour,
actually last twenty five years has been tough for the
Catholic Church. Churches have closed, parishes have consolidated, priests have left.
More priests have left than have joined. What is it
(15:26):
possible that this American pope could revitalize the Catholic Church
in America? Obviously his pontificate covers more than the United
States of America. We understand that, and there are parts
of the world where Catholicism is burgeoning right now, Africa
and Asia. But in America it's not in large part
(15:49):
because of everything that the Church has gone through here,
and many of it problems brought on themselves, not only
by unfaithful priests, but also religious leaders who failed to
take control of the situation. Could this make a huge difference,
that's my sense. I hope you're going to say yes,
but I'd be interested. Give me your honest feeling.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Well, we all like to see the church in America revitalized.
And I was watching crowds in Chicago. How I mean,
my goodness, you would think the White Sox are going
the pennant.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Let's not go that far. Now, let's not call that far, professor.
So they're they're like ten and twenty oh, ten and
twenty five, go ahead, a moment over kidding.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
They were so excited, and that was really heartwarming to see.
On your question, It's what makes it hard to answer
is that I think for many people it is possible
that it will be exciting to have a pope who's
very much in the vein of Pope Francis, but with
(16:59):
a stroke on connection to the United States. I think
that could have some real results, and I think in
another way, it might revitalize the church in the United States.
And thinking about it a little differently, when I grew
up in Western mass Dan, the popes were sort of
(17:21):
remote features that didn't have creatures who didn't have very
much to do with ordinary life in Berkshire County. And
you know, I think over time and over the past
few years, I do think American Catholicism you do see
a lot of rebirth and excitement in places like these
(17:43):
Catholic schools that are growing up that are so vibrant
around Boston. We see Saint Benedict's, for example. And it
may be that there will be two kinds of revitalization.
Part the excitement about having a pope born in the
United in the States, and the other a sense that, uh,
(18:04):
the church, after all is the people of God and
they're right here, and the American Church has great potential
to be more vibrant than it is now.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well, it's going to be a very interesting period for
the church. I mentioned this to uh Professor Groom as well.
I watched him come out on the balcony today to
greet the crowd, and he seemed to have a a serenity.
(18:34):
Obviously he was not he met the moment, I thought,
and I thought that that as I looked at him,
I felt that that people would will connect with him.
I don't know how to bet, how to describe it
any other than that. He just seemed to handle it
with with a lot of grace and dignity, and he
(18:56):
he pulled it off. And I watched the response of
people and young people in that crowd in Saint Peter's
in the piazza, and there were a lot of young
people who were thrilled to be part of that. So
maybe it is a bit of a renaissance for the
Catholic Church in America. We'll have to see.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
We can always hope, So no.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
No question about it. When you were over there, you
got to meet three of the popes at various times.
Who would this pope, in your opinion, be closest to
You knew three popes and probably other popes than that,
but you knew John Paul the second, you knew Pope Benedict,
(19:39):
and you knew Pope Francis.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah, I think he is very much like a successor
to Francis. And I think I mean he's going to
feel close to Francis in another way because that you
have to pray for him when he wakes up tomorrow morning.
(20:03):
He may have been in surre seren when he came
out on the balcony, but when he wakes up tomorrow morning.
He's got two big sets of challenges that Francis, to
his credit, worked hard on and was barely able to
make a dent in. And one is, as it's increasingly
(20:24):
coming out in the press, is that the Vatican is
in severe financial distress. It has a huge deficit, it
has no realistic plans for fixing it. And just in November,
Pope Francis announced that the pension fund for Vatican employees
is in trouble and will not be able to meet
(20:46):
its obligations to its retired votes within what he said
is the medium term, which everybody thinks means within the
next ten years. So Pope Leo the fourteenth has a
big financial headache. I mean, there just has to be
I hope the cardinals talked about this when they were
(21:08):
in conclave. There has to be something done because things
are going downhill fast. And the other big challenge, and
again Francis worked on this, but it's what I would
call the Vatican deep state. There is a bureaucracy over
there in its own culture, and even a pope, Pope
(21:30):
Francis even at times felt defeated by it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, that's what's called the Curia. If I'm not mistaken,
that's what's called the Curia, right, No problem, okay, Professor Glendon,
Mary and Glendon. The book has a lot of relevance
the Court of Three Popes. I'm sure that is still
available through Amazon and places like that. I appreciate you
taking the time to chat with us tonight. I always
(21:57):
enjoy talking with you. Your experience is amazing, and their
experience both as a lawyer, as a professor, and as
a diplomat. Thank you so much for your time tonight.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
It's my pleasure, Dan, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
All right, we're going to take a quick break here.
It is nine thirty four, so we are a little
bit late for the news at the bottom of the hour.
That's okay. Now it is up to you. I want
to know your thoughts. What did you think when you
heard the news today? Where were you? It came out
of the blue. I was watching one of the midday
(22:30):
newscasts and they actually broke into the CBS news, breaking
into channel four. Uh, and the network just took it
over and told us that the white smoke had appeared
and that a new pope had been chosen. And that's
been my day since twelve oh eight. I suspect it's
probably been a lot of your day six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
(22:53):
If you're a Catholic, you can celebrate. If you're a
non Catholic, you can tell us exactly what you think.
And if you're a falling away Catholic, does this inspire
you to give the church a second look, particularly now
that we have the first American pope in history, in history.
But back on Nightside, light the lines up. Let's hear
from you. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
If you're on night Side with Dan Ray on w
b Z, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
All right, well, my lines are quiet. That's not good.
That's not good. If you happen to be someone who
is a practicing Catholic, I assume that tonight you welcome this,
particularly in view of the fact that there is a
an American who now is the head of the church
(23:43):
to which you belong. If you're falling away Catholic, and
again I'm not going to talk religion per se, but
I'd love to know, does this make a difference to you?
Is this the sort of a decision made by the
higher ups of the Catholic Church, the College of cars
that might induce you to, after having been away, give
(24:04):
the church a try. If you're a young person. This
pope is sixty nine years of age, which, obviously, as
I refer to it as the wrong side of fifty,
he is a young person in terms of the age
of a pope. It's conceivable, very conceivable that he would
(24:26):
be a pope for at least ten, maybe fifteen. Who knows,
potentially even longer twenty years. I mean, people are living
longer these days. Does it make a difference. I think
that as somebody who just looks at it from a
decision point of view, that the College of Cardinals they
(24:48):
believe that they're guided by They will tell you the
Holy Spirit. And again, you don't have to be a
Catholic to believe that, by the way, and don't even
have to believe it if you are Catholic. But they
met for a little over twenty four hours, and this
is the decision they came to. There were a variety
(25:09):
of other options that they could have chosen, and many
of them would have been perfectly acceptable. I'm surprised, I
must tell you that I never thought that I would
see an American pope in my lifetime. I was joking
with Professor Tom Groom last night that Timothy Dolan of
(25:30):
New York, and most of you probably don't know who
a lot of these folks are, but Dolan is the
Cardinal of New York and he's a very garrulous, fun guy.
If you can talk about cardinal as being a fun guy.
I see him on television all the time. He hosts
the presidential debate, the dinner every year, the Al Smith,
(25:53):
not every year, every fourth year, the Al Smith dinner,
the one that President Trump attended, and the dinner that
Vice President Harris chose not to attend. So I'm interested.
I'm also interested in the perspective of non Catholics and
atheists and agnostics as to how this plays. And the
(26:18):
reason I say that, and I'm challenging you at this
point is I was very surprised and gratified, to be
honest with you, at the amount of coverage this whole
period of the last few weeks has received. From the
time that people came to understand that Pope Francis was
(26:42):
not only not healthy, but he was seriously ill, and
even when he did get out of the hospital after
his two months day, your sense was that his days
were numbered, And of course he died the morning after Easter,
which within the Catholic churches and within Christianity is incredibly symbolic.
(27:02):
So then they had the Conclave, and those of you
who have seen the movie Conclave, and I watched it,
I'm gonna guess six months ago or three or four
months ago, and I thought it was pretty good, and
it certainly had the scenery down. I'm assuming, and I
don't know this, by the way, I'm assuming that they
were given permission to suit to shoot some of it
(27:25):
on the on the property of the Vatican. It's this
this city, state or country. It's the smallest country in
the world, but it is a country nonetheless. Uh. And
it's to me, I just I'm fascinated by this because
even though it's really it's a religion, which clearly it is,
(27:46):
there are political overtones. I mean, you talk about this
pope or that pope. Were they more conservative, were they progressive?
Were they liberal? Social justice? Many of the issues that
Francis Pope Francis would talk about were based in politics
as well as theology. Certainly in our lifetime, the Pope
(28:13):
from Poland, Pope John Paul the Second was an extraordinarily
political a person because of where he lived. In Poland,
he had to deal with the Nazi occupation before and
during World War two, the invasion of his country. He
was a young man at the time. And then once
(28:36):
the war ended and the Nazis were defeated, the Russians
came in and they took over, and life under Hitler
and Stalin was oppressive in both instances, in both in
both places, in both both time periods, and yet he
was able to walk that balance. So so this, this is,
(28:57):
this is I think it's historic us. It's it's to me.
It's a huge story. I hope some of you can
can understand what I'm saying, and I hope some of you,
more of you will join me. I'd like to. I
would love to talk about this for a while, because
I think it is something that if we don't talk
about it, we're missing a very important story. This has
(29:20):
an important it's an important story to people in Ukraine
today who are waking up now on Friday morning and
dealing with the fact that there now is an American
who's the pope again. I don't want to overpoliticize it,
but I don't want to underpoliticize it. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
(29:43):
If this was irrelevant to you today, I think you're
missing a big story. I really do. Uh. And if
you if it was irrelevant to you today, tell me why.
And I suspect some of you feel that way. Feel free.
Let's talk about it back on Night's Side right after
this very quick break, and we will talk about this
for a while. I want to hear from as many
(30:03):
of you as possible. This is a story that I
feel my audience needs to understand and I need to understand.
And that's what we're going to do for a while
back at nights Side after.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
This Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
My lines have filled up and I'm gratified for that.
So I'm going to try to get at least two
or three folks in here before the ten. Let me
start off with Peggy, who was calling in from West Roxbury. Peggy,
welcome to Nightside. How are you?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Thank you? Dan? I'm fine. I just thought i'd like
to give an opinion ahead.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I'm all ears, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Okay, you you mentioned doesn't mean this much to Catholics,
to filing away Catholics, to prodisses. I grew up a
very strong Catholic.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
I still consider myself a churchgoer when I can get there.
About twenty five years ago, when the problems in the
church started, it affected my family through my son, who
(31:21):
was working in a rectory when he was thirteen years old.
It took twenty years of our lives. My son lost
his wife, family home, or when he became conscious of
what had happened in his Lord.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
By the way, through no fault of his own.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
No, no, definitely not. However, without going into any detail,
I'll tell you I have ten children, and the tenth
one just informed me that she knows Lunger is going
to church. The other nine had already stopped going to church.
And when you think of the amount, very.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Very understandable what happened to their family. Absolutely right.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
It's like saying the emperor has no clothes. All of
a sudden, we realize the people, some of whom I know,
they're a wonderful priests, but some of whom had I
thought given up their lives to serve God were so.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Let me ask you. Let me ask you this, Peggy does,
does the selection of this American today, American by birth
is pope? Does that say to you there's still hope
for the church or do you think the church at
this point is a flawed organization?
Speaker 5 (32:45):
That Oh, I would say it's very flawed. I don't
care if he's American or Russian or African. I don't
see what it can do to make things better. I
think they would have to admit to every problem they
had in that field, which some still do not do.
(33:07):
So anyway, I just want you to know that in
my particular case, in my families, it does not make
a bit of difference through the pope. He seems like
a very nice man. I hope he is well.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I'm hoping you want to get as many different you
want to get as many different points of view, including
your estate. Appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Thank you, Dan, have a great night.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Okay, keep listening to night Side.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Good bye.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Okay, let me go, Let me say good night to
Peggy and let me go. Next. I want to go
to Kevin in South Carolina real quickly, Kevin, you were
next on nightsig.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Go right ahead, Hi again. We were always told he
would never be an American because we had world power,
and the Pope will never be from a world power.
So I'm pretty much shocked. I'm brilliant shocked. I paid
a little attention to it. This guy came out of
nowhere to be like a little league of being in
the World Series, the home run that wins the game.
Don't you didn't expect him. He wasn't even name the
(33:59):
test anything I heard before, right out of nowhere. And
you know, you and I now are officially old because
the Pope is younger than us.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I know that's that's that happens. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
And the last quick thing, I think the White Sox
are all set for the World Series. I'm sure he'll
send the papal blessing to put it in the locker
room and they'll just go through it.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Don't bet any money in the White Sox. They're a
bad baseball team, although they have some They are four
really good young pitchers from Massachusetts. If you know that roster, it's.
Speaker 6 (34:32):
Going to take a while to learn about him because
I can make no decision on him at all because
he's just totally out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
All right, Kevin, thank you so much for checking in
from South Carolina. You never disappoint it.
Speaker 6 (34:43):
And data was eighty five today in Sonny.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Sorry to tell you that's okay. It's it's been rainy
all week up here. You're a wise man, Kevin. Thanks buddy,
we'll talk soon. That's a great one. Be well, call
more often. Let me go to my friend Harvey, Silverglade, Cambridge.
Harvey is not a Catholic for any of you who
might be interested, Harvey, welcome, go right ahead, sir.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
It seems to me they're given a number of cardinals
that the prior pope appointed.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yes, he has changed the face of the Catholic Church
for a century. That's a that's an interesting observation. Uh
you know, yeah, this pope will be able to also
replenish as these cardinals age out, and I think, uh,
(35:36):
they generally age out at eighty. They remain cardinals, but
they can't vote. I think probably the next conclave, which
won't be for some time hopefully. Uh yeah, there'll be
there'll be a new a Newbury group in there. But yeah,
that's that's an interesting I had not thought of it
that way, Harve. You very perspective, very very perspective.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I should say, it's it's makes the Jewish guy in
a different light.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Well, as I tell all of my friends, Harvey, and
you've heard me say that before. The guy that founded
my church happened to be Jewish and his parents were Jewish.
So I think we're all kind of somehow affected and related. Okay,
I think you know how I feel about that stuff.
As always, my friend, you're the best. Thanks. Thanks, that's
(36:25):
a great perspective. I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't
thought of that. It's a amazing, it's amazing. Thank you, Thanks, Harvey.
We'll talk soon. Okay, right, oh, thank you much. Let
me get in here real quickly. Going to go to
Florence and Groveland, Florence. I got a couple of minutes
for you. Don't have to don't want you to have
to wait. You go right ahead.
Speaker 7 (36:44):
Okay, thank you, Dan. I wanted to call in. I
had been praying for Pope Francis to get better than
he did and left the hospital and the day he
passed away, and I told my son when he came home,
(37:07):
he was shocked because he said he did ask and
now he's gone. And I think today what has occurred.
This is absolutely wonderful. And I am not Catholic. Then
I grew up in English household grant my parents and grandparents, okay,
(37:32):
and we're Protestant, but I have Catholic friends and Jewish friends.
And also my husband was Catholic. And then after my husband,
I had mentioned, I had a boyfriend for ten years
(37:53):
he was Catholic. So I'm familiar.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
You're very act, You're very ecumenical, which is good, Florence.
We're flat running out of time here, so i'd love
to get just a final quick word from you on
was today a good day or a not so good
day in your opinion?
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Perfect day? It was wonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
That's great, and I.
Speaker 7 (38:18):
Think this was meant to be.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Well, there are those who are convinced of that, Florence.
I'm flat out of time. I got to let you run.
As always, I got you, and I didn't want you
have to wait through the news. We'll talk soon. Okay,
thanks so much, we'll talk soon. Have a great one.
Thanks for your call. Here comes to ten back right
after the only line six one, seven thirty. I want
to talk about this for a while, I really do.
I want to hear as many perspectives as possible. This
(38:41):
is an important day for America. It's important day for
the Catholic Church. It's important day for the world. Believe me,
that's true. Back on back after this
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