November 11, 2025 • 36 mins
Two Major League Baseball pitchers who play for the Cleveland Indians allegedly conspired with sports bettors to rig pitches they threw so the bettors would profit from illegal wagers. Luis Leandro Ortiz was arrested Sunday at Logan Airport in Boston. Emmanuel Clase has not yet been taken into custody. According to the indictment, the pitchers started conspiring with sports betters in 2023.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, welcome back everyone, and again Brian Shortsleeve was
our guests. It's his website is just Brian Shortsleeve dot com.
Pretty simple. That's as direct the website as you could
possibly have. I enjoyed that hour a lot of different calls,
challenging calls, calls that had genuine, genuinely good questions as
what Nightside should be should be about I want to
(00:28):
venture into the story that broke on Sunday. It's only Tuesday,
and by the way, I am off the next three nights.
I've worked every every weeknight save one night there was
a busy television reunion or October third, So I have
basically done September and October and you know about a
(00:50):
third of November here, and so I'm got a little
bit of a break and I'll be back Monday night.
So if you want to get a call in to
me tonight, you you won't be able to talk to
me probably until next Monday night. But I was stunned
by this indictment of the two Major League Baseball pitchers
(01:11):
from the Cleveland Indians, Emmanuel class A, Dela Cruz and
Luis Leandro Ortiz Robera Cruz is a closer, one of
the best closers in baseball for the last couple of years.
All Star three three seasons, three three year All Star
Ortiz had pitched or tees Ribera. But he's his name.
(01:34):
His name is, you know, in terms of his uniform,
Lewis Ortiz and Emmanuel class A c l A sc
This is the problem. And by the way, of course
you've seen the the the basketball scandal and all of
these athletes. Let me just state very clearly, both as
a talk show host and as a member of the bar. Uh,
(01:57):
these gentlemen are all innocent until proven guilty. They enjoy
the presumption of innocence. However, reading the indictments in New
York of the basketball scandal, the basketball not only betting
scandal which involved prop bets, will explain that in a moment,
(02:20):
most of you know what I'm talking about. They also
had the high end poker games. This indictment that came
out of New York, out of the Southern District of
New York, I believe on Sunday, is a devastating indictment
(02:40):
because it again puts two professional athletes who I had forgotten.
And again, you know, the Indians had a fairly good season.
They were in the playoffs. Briefly, I believe these two
guys were suspended. They were put on in definite paid
leave by MLB as part of a sports betting investigation.
(03:08):
In recent years, the only reason people get put on
suspension in either Major League Baseball or minor league baseball
is some sort of a drug test would show some
evidence of either steroids or what they call clear or
what was called clear many years ago, which was another
drug which intended to hide steroids. But what it is
(03:30):
alleged these pictures were doing and Class A since nineteen
ninety three, or tees who had been picked up by
the Pirates, last from the Pirates by the Indians, or
Tease a starter although he was used occasionally in relief
and Class A a classic relief pitch or closer. They
(03:55):
apparently had figured out that you could do prop bets
on whether the pitch that would be thrown would be
a ball or a strike, very similar to what was
going on with the former Celtic player who was playing
down in Florida who basically pulled up lame in a
(04:18):
game and let allegedly let people know that he was
going to leave the game. And here's what a prop
bet is. Let me let me explain for those of
you who don't know, when you normally think about betting,
whether you're talking about betting with a bookie or betting
somehow with the legitimate you know, I use the word
(04:38):
legitimate websites, you can bet a game. So let's say
that Patriots are playing the Buffalo Bills later this year.
When Buffalo comes into Jillette. The Patriots very well maybe
favored in that game. They've done better than Buffalo. So
let's assume the Patriots are three point favorite. Well, if
(05:00):
you want to bet the Patriots to win, they have
to win by three points or more, or they have
to win by more than three points. Oftentimes you'll see
the spread will be three and a half. We'll use
that as an example. Or let's say we'll make it
two and a half. They are two and a half
point favorite. That means they have to win by three points.
If they win the game by less than two and
(05:23):
a half points in that scenario, in this scenario, you
lose your bet. So if they win a game twenty
one to nineteen. They won the game, but you lost
your bet. If you bet the Patriots. If you bet
the Buffalo Bills in that situation, and they would be
underdog by two and a half points and they only
lose by two or they lose by one, then they
(05:43):
lose the game, but you win your bet. I think
most people get that. A prop bet are the bets
that you can have in football, Who's going to get
a touchdown? How many passing yards is golf going to get?
For the Lions against the Commanders weekend when Detroit played
the Commanders, Detroit won like forty four to twenty, and
(06:06):
they basically shut down their passing game at the end
of the game. So if you had bet that, if
let's say the line was two hundred and eighty yards
for Jared Goff, the quarterback for the Lions, once they
decided just to run the ball and run the clock out,
He's got two hundred and seventy six yards or whatever.
It was very close, but that prop bet lost. So
(06:27):
prop bets, you know, it makes it interesting, but it
also is dangerous. So in baseball, if you've watched any
of the ads for some of the sports places, one
of the ads as the guy saying, look you can
bet here and a piss's gonna be a ball or strike.
I got my bet in Look at that, I said,
(06:47):
I said strike, you got a strike. I won to bet.
That's nuts, that's nuts. I mean, that's like betting on
who's gonna who's gonna They used to joke about who's
gonna win the coin flip at the Super Bowl. Heads
are tails, you know, I mean it's that's a nutty bet.
And if you why would you be betting, Why would
(07:08):
you allow something as granular as a pitch be a
ball or strike? That is nuts. That is nuts. If
you've never thrown a pitch from sixty feet six inches,
and I have, it's it's a challenge, okay. You know,
(07:29):
major league pitchers pretty much can put most accomplished major
league pitchers can put the pitch exactly where they want it,
lowing inside, high, and outside off the plate. They have
the control, they have the command. That's what makes major
league pitchers. So pitchers always want to get ahead of
the count because if you get ahead of the count,
(07:50):
the batter is in a defensive position. If you get
behind of the count, now the batter can think to himself. Okay,
where's this pitch gonna be. It's gonna be a fastball,
it's gonna be a slider. They can kind of guess.
They do what you call guest hitting, so they can
take they can take a strike if it's not exactly
what they want. But if they think he's gonna come
(08:11):
inside with a fastball, and they load up looking inside
for fastball and they see it coming, that's when often
they take a two old pitch and put in the
left field bleachers or over the scoreboard at Fenway Park,
up up into the up into the monster seats. So
these guys allegedly Class and Ortiz, they're charged with wire fraud, conspiracy,
(08:35):
honest services wire fraud conspiracy, I don't know about that,
conspiracy to influence sporting contest by bribery, and money laundering conspiracy.
So here's the deal. They would make a deal with
their friends before the game. In this case of the
starting pitcher, first pitch in the second inning, it's going
(08:55):
to be a ball, so they could put a they
could put a bet in on that. It had nothing
to do with the game, It had nothing to do
with the team. It had everything to do with what
the pitcher was gonna throw and if that picture was
your friend, and he said, I'm throwing a ball to
whoever the first hitter is in the in the second innings.
(09:17):
Long as he gets out of the first inning, you're
gonna have a winning bet. There were apparently about a
half million dollars a little less than a half million
dollars in winnings. About four hundred thousand dollars is being
attributed to pitches that class threw from ninety three, ninety
four ninety five, and Ortiz allegedly was hooked into this
(09:39):
last year between I guess leap and May of twenty
twenty five, uh and Class A. It looks as if
he convinced Ortiz, who was a relief pitcher, not a star,
(10:00):
you should be a starter, not a relief pitcher, to
do the same thing. And money was made. So who
lost the money? Well? What the What the sports betting
companies hope is that they have fifty to fifteen betsy.
They just want to balance the bets. If there's one
(10:21):
hundred thousand dollars saying to strike one hundred thousand dollars
say in a ball, they're willing to pay off one
hundred thousand who's ride and they're going to get extra
from the people lose. I mean, you don't bet ten
dollars or one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars to
one thousand. You got to bet twelve hundred to win
a thousand. You've gotta bet one hundred and twenty to
win one hundred, and that's called the vig So the
question is this is devastating to Major League Baseball, and
(10:48):
I think that Rob Manfred has some answer some questions
to answer here, okay, because look, if the the integrity
of the game goes away, then the game goes away.
I mean, people do watch professional wrestling that they know
it's not on the level. People assume major League Baseball
(11:11):
is on the level. What I'm gonna do, It's not
gonna open up the phone lines, and I would love
to hear from those of you, particularly who like sports,
and particularly those of you who like betting. I think
they have to get rid of the prop bets. That's
what I think. Now, maybe you could argue some prop
bets if football are okay, but I don't think so,
because what happens if if some bookie gets to a
(11:33):
quarterback and says, hey, look, you know we need a
couple of interceptions this game. You know, we don't care
if you win to lose, but late in the game
you got a couple. You got to throw a couple
of balls interceptions, okay, or or you know, you could
have a problem, You could have threats, you could have
You have players who might bet themselves. Betting will be
(11:56):
the end of professional sports in America if it's not
come on to control, and there's going to have to
be an example set. These guys make a lot of money.
They did not need the extra cash. I've gone way
too long here. It's a subject that I'm interested in.
I want to hear your point of view. If you're
a better If you know about this, great, If you don't,
(12:16):
how surprised are you? How concerned are you? We learned
as kids about Shoeless Show Jackson and the nineteen nineteen
Black Sox. Do these guys not hear about this? Where
are the agents the agents who represent these guys. Are
they spending time with these players and say, hey, look,
this is a no no, you can't do this. You
can't do steroids. Okay, I know you want to turn
(12:38):
those warning track fly balls in the home runs. But
you can't do steroids, and you definitely cannot get involved
in gambling. Six one, seven through five, four, ten, thirty, six, seven, ninety.
I want to talk about this until eleven o'clock and
then eleven o'clock I want to do give you an
opportunity to salute a veteran. It is veterans say. It
is Rememberance Day in Canada, the equivalent holidays in both countries.
(13:03):
We will spend the final hour tonight remembering the service
of veterans. I want to talk about the danger to
professional sports in America, huge industry teams that are worth
billions of dollars. It could all go away. And these
teams have made this deal with Major League Sports and
guess what. It's going to get more interest in the game.
(13:24):
I get it, but it has to be on the level.
Coming back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
This, it's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay, Bob is held over from last hour. Let's see
how we're doing with Bob and Rhode Island. Bob, different
topic than you called in on, but I'd love to
know what you think about this big potential betting scandal
in baseball.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
So I have to talk about the gambling and baseball.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well, you've hung on, and you've known that I've been
talking about this.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That you I've been waiting fifty five minutes to talk
to you. That's a long time. I wanted to talk
about Laura Heally and his shot sleeve or underway.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Unfortunately, Bob, we've changed topics. I'm glad you held on.
If you don't want to talk about baseball, we'll catch
you on the other show.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Talk about baseball. Is the Red Sox stink?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And the Celtics are gonna lose.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
That's very that's very helpful, Bob. Let me ask you, Bob,
if you waited fifty four minutes, do you want to
get the plank or no?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You can give me anything you want, buddy.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Okay, here we go. Let's get out the plank. Wait
you don all right? Bob? Thanks very much. Hey, Bob,
wait a secon. He's holding on to the end of
the plank. Give it to him again. Man, that's the
first guy we double plank. He was pretty good holding
on to the end of the plank. There. Let me
go to Joe and Bell behind Joe, how are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Good? Dud good Dan, you know this strikes. This goes
back to the fifties in Thin White Park when I
was sitting in the bleaches when I was ten or thirteen,
I would see the I would overhear these old the
men betting on balls and strikes, and now that I'm
a lot older, I say to myself, get a life.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Well here's the deal. Those guys were probably betting a
quarter or a nickel or whatever, and probably at the
end of the day, one of them old, the the
other thirty cents or something, and they were guessing, were
you with the bleachers of where were you sitting back
in those days, Bob or other Joe.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Joe, Yeah I was. I was sitting in the middle
of the bleachers.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Oh okay, well, so.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
So if there was a couple.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Of old timers, and you know, when you're a young kid,
you probably said, wow, that's pretty cool. They're just they're
just making the game more interesting because they're betting probably
a nickel or a dime back in those days, and
at the end of the day, you know, one of
them old the other thirty cents or forty cents, and
that was about it. That's probably a pastime This was
a fixed, Bob Joe. This is fixed. These pitchers had
(16:07):
set it up with their buddies that the first pitch
they were gonna call, that they were gonna throw, whether
they started the game the second inning, you know, when
they got out to the second inning, or if they
came in in relief, it was preordained. And there were
thousands of dollars being bet on this. I mean, this
was fraud. This was serious stuff. This what was a
(16:29):
little game between a couple of old guys in the
bleachers next to you as a kid, now became very
very serious. These guys have been indicted. They deserve and
they maintain and they enjoyed the presumption of innocence. But
I'll tell you, if they're convicted, they're going away. And
these are guys who were making a lot of money.
(16:51):
Class had to be making at least six or seven
million dollars a year because he had been a three
time All Star, and Ortiz was making about seven hundred
and seventy thousand dollars a year, and you know he
hadn't even each free agency yet. These guys blew it.
If they're guilty, they blew it.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Man, Could I tell you about a gambling problem I had.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yes, when I was stationed in Las Vegas in the
Air Force for four years, I had a problem on
playing the football cards on the college and the pros.
And I would get hurt by spending too much money
gambling where I wouldn't have enough spending money to the
next paycheck. And I know the feeling that the nervous
(17:40):
system gets from the action and the drill in drill,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yep, I ask what years were you in the Air Force?
If I could ask, Joe.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Sixty five to sixty nine.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, so you were betting on the time when guys
like Joe Namath and John Uanias and Bart Starr and
those guys were playing for the teams and and you
were losing. I guess if you had a gambling problem.
Anybody who's winning doesn't think they have a gambling problem,
although they they only have a gambling problem too, by
the way.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
But you know what I came to reality. You know
why I quit?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
No, why did you quit?
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Because of the upset you couldn't win?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, yeah, I'm fig you know the the in those
days when you say the cards. Will you go into
the casinos? Was was sports? Betting wasn't legal in the casinos.
You you had the football cards that the mafia were circulating, right, No.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
This was illegal. They had a book joints where you
could make bets.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Did you ever win? I mean you must have won
some games to stick with it, Yes.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I did. I would win fifty bucks on five dollars
four to one.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah. That's the other thing too, in order to yeah,
you gotta get picked like four games or whatever. I know,
I know. That's similar to what they call parlay bets today,
where people will bet on a variety of you know,
on this quarterback is gonna get three hundred yards. This
receiver you know on another team is going to get
a touchdown, this running back on a third team is
(19:17):
going to get one hundred yards, and they all going
to come through for you and you might win. You
might get three out of two out of three, but
it's always the third one that kills you.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Simply do you remember the syndicated column in the newspapers
around the country, Mike Commons Football full Cast.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I don't remember that specifically.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, he used to be almost as good as Jimmy
the Greek and prognosticating he was Jimmy the Greek was
the calmness for the Las Vegas.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, if you were following Jimmy the Greek, how are
you losing?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Well, you know, he wasn't perfect. He might pick two
out of three yeah right, yeah, and you had.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And you had to pick three out of three. And
that's the difference. And plus they always remember the ones,
the ones that they won. They'll say I called the
super Bowl game. I was right on the money. They
don't tell you about the ten super Bowl games they missed. Joe,
I'm glad you got rid of that problem. Thank you much,
my friend. We will talk so much.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
That was a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Dan right back at you, Joe, thank you very much.
You never get to play from me. Thanks Joe, touches much.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Good night. Six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. This is
a subject I like. This is a subject that means
a lot to me. I'm a baseball person. Of all
the sports. I love hockey, I love football, i love basketball,
but I've been in love with baseball since I'm six
years old. And I would hope that this will pass
(20:43):
and that whatever reforms need to be done done. When
we get back, I'm gonna talk. I got a couple
of lines open right now. Fill these lines up, because
we're done with this. At eleven o'clock, we're gonna do
a salute to veterans beginning at eleven six, one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty six, one seven, nine ten. I
want to know if you think this is the end
(21:03):
of the scandal or this is the tip of the iceberg,
because if it's a tip of the iceberg, major League
Baseball has big problems and they got to get rid
of these prop bets. Coming back on Night Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
All right, I am so glad Melissa and Oregon was
listening tonight. Melissa is a huge baseball person. She's into stats,
she knows a lot of the players. She's a friend
of mine. She used to work in the front office
of the Cincinnati Reds, or as I call them, Cincinnati
red Legs, the more formal term, Hi Melissa, welcome back.
(21:40):
How are you good?
Speaker 5 (21:42):
How are you tonight?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I'm so happy to hear your voice tonight, Melissa.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
So I have a different take almost sure. I actually
feel like major League Baseball, the NFL, the NBA, and
the National Hockey League responsible for this area or play
a key role in it. And what I mean by
that is for years it's no gambling. You know, we
talk about when Pete Rose had his gambling instant, about
(22:10):
the signage that's on the walls, you know, within the
locker room, and this commitment to that gambling. They went
into bed with casinos, they went into bed with all
of these apps. They're they're reaping what they sell, right,
And it's kind of like the Hall of Fame, which
(22:31):
you know I adore, but if you go to the
Baseball Hall of Fame, for years they said, you know,
Pete Rose doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. But
yet when you walked through, when you walk through the
Hall of Fame, Pete Rose is stuffed four one, nine two.
You know, all these different things associated with Pete Rose
were in the Hall of Fame. And it's like, well,
(22:53):
if they're going to not let him in, then don't
let him in. That's everything, right. And I kind of
feel like there's a hypocritical opponent here with Major League
Baseball that they wanted that engagement with the casinos, with
the apps, et cetera. So now this is a consequence
of that.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well, I think what you're saying. I think what you're
saying to me is kind of like making a deal
with the devil.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, I want to put it in religious terms here,
but uh, Rob Manford has to deal with this. I mean,
was this not predictable with the prop bets? I mean
it's tough to think. I think sports, well, exactly it is,
because again, if you're a quarterback and all of a sudden,
(23:39):
you know, you're on the board for one interception and
you're winning, you know, thirty one to ten. Uh, you know,
and if if you know, you know, if you've told
your friends, hey, look I'll probably throw one interception you
and you know you haven't thrown and maybe you've thrown
a ball a couple of times and the dbacks have
dropped the ball. You f one out there? Anybody, I
(24:02):
don't know. I think it's the prop bets, Charles Barkley
said recently, and I agree with Charles. He said you
can't fix a basketball game, and I believe you can't
fix a basketball game because if if whatever the spread is,
but you can't fix prop bets. Prop bets are easy
(24:25):
to fix. Somebody's leg, you know, comes up, you know,
with a hamstring pull. The coach can't say, no, you
got to get back out there. He's look my hamstring.
I just popped the hamstring. It's killing me.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
No, I definitely think that there's you know, they've got
some work to do there. And I think the other
part of it too is that you know, well, if
you look at some of the players that have been targeted,
people talk about, well, I was making seven hundred k
or X number a million's of dollars. A lot of
(25:00):
these players are come from a different economic social background. Sure,
so therefore they may be supporting different family members, they
may be their finances, they may be supporting you know, ten, fifteen,
twenty people. Right, so this is an education about their
finances as well. And you know, I think sometimes we
(25:23):
forget about that, right, But.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Once you make but Melissa, I agree with you, Okay,
I agree with you. If some kid comes out of
an upper middle class family and plays at Arizona State
and signs a bonus because he's the first round draft
choice at twenty two, he's in a whole different situation
than some kid who signs out at the Dominican at
the age of fourteen exactly. Okay, I'm with you totally.
But the problem is that that kid now and in
(25:47):
class A situation. I don't know what he was making.
He had to be making he was three time All Star,
had to be making six or seven millionaires are closer
for the Indians. He's not going to be making that
money if he gets convicted here he's to be and
and the people he's supporting are going to have big problems.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Yeah, and so where is the people around him?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, where are the agents? Where are the agents? I
doubt As as as an attorney, I've represented NHL players,
as I've told you, and I talked to them about
a lot of this stuff, and you almost have to
talk to them like they're your your sibling. Do you
have their older brother? Uh? And you got to say, hey, look,
you know, and this stuff wasn't around when I was
(26:27):
doing that. I mean, it's the prop bets. I'll be
really surprised if you don't agree with me. Let's get
rid of all this year.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
You know, prop bets, I agree completely, and I you know,
I hope major You know, I'd love to see this
is an opportunity for Major League Baseball to be kind
of a leader in this area and just say, hey,
we're done with those you know, we're not going to
participate with these apps. If and get and just get rid.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Of those, well that's that might be a step too far.
But the prop again, just remember what Barkley said, what
Charles Charles Barkley said, you can't fix a basketball game,
and I agree with him. I really believe that. I mean,
you have to know who's got the ball with two
seconds left to go and it's taking that three point shot,
and does he miss it intentionally? I guess theoretically you could,
(27:18):
but it's it's so difficult to fix a game by
the prop bet easy easy.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
And then there's another component to those in that is,
like I said earlier, you know, where are the leagues
when it comes to sitting down and when they're when
they're dancing with the devil? Well, what can they say,
you know, speaking up and saying we're not going to
tell we don't want this. You know, there's such powerful organizations,
(27:50):
and yet they didn't think that they would need to
use their power and say look, we're not. We don't
be a part of this.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Have you have you read the indictment out of New
York on these two Indian pictures?
Speaker 6 (28:06):
You know, I have not.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's a devastating it. It's a twenty three page indictment.
They have it almost down to the minute when the
course they have you know better one better too, So
they have obviously turned some people. Uh and they got
the this is this is a devastating indictment. I mean
it's there's they have literally when the bank when money
(28:33):
was withdrawn, when money was was sent, I mean, the
FBI did it, did a lot.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
Everything so electronic. You know, we've got the situation with
Chauncy Billips are in Portland. I mean it's you know,
and a lot of people have said, well because they're competitive,
I don't know what it is, and I know, I
know we have here in Oregon. We have you can
walk into any bar and they're there are a maximum
(29:02):
of six machines where you can gamble, you know, just
like you're going to a spot machine.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
And so gambling is quite huge here and it's cross
the US. It's not just Vegas in Atlantic City anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
More. Thought anymore. Melissa, thanks so much for calling in
all the way from tonight.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
You decided to tackle this. And you know what bums
me out, is it if it takes away from the
great on the field stuff. You know, we had a
wonderful World Series there, you know, you know, a Tawny,
all these great things that are happening in the sport,
and then we have this to take away from it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But listen, let me let me ask you a real
quick question. Okay, and I'm passing my break here, so
I got to be real quick. I did not realize
and I follow it pretty closely. The class A and
Ortiz had been suspended on July twenty eighth, July.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, and I think they held that back. I think
this is just my take. I don't know me insight,
but this is serious stuff, right, and so they I
think both the FBI and the league and the team
wanted to manage that.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah. Well, what you're saying is they held it till
after the World Series. And you know what, in deference
to the players, to the Dodgers and the Blue Jays
was a great World Series. They did the right thing.
I'm not sure they found class or tease apparently was
living in Boston, which I think he's a kid from
the Dominican. We have a big Dominican population in Boston.
Maybe he has family in Boston. He got arrested at
Logan Airport. I don't thinks is in custody yet. So yeah,
(30:36):
this is tough, tough stuff.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
It's bad and the NBA situation is bad. And the
sad part is you know it won't be a story
next week.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Oh well yeah, I don't know. I think who knows.
There may be more stuff too. By the way, once
one person is trapped, then they may say, hey, I
got somebody else on another team. Who knows where it
might go.
Speaker 7 (30:59):
Thanks Melissa for checking it out.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Take care, good night, Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Good night. Back on Nightside right after this, I got
Geo and Reading and John and Rock Pop. We're gonna
get him both in gentlemen, coming back.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w Z
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
So we're talking about two professional baseball players, two pitchers
for the Cleveland Guardians, Emmanuel Class and Louis Ortiz, under
indictment for fraud, wire fraud conspiracy, honor services, wire fraud conspiracy,
conspiracy to influenced sporting contest by bribery and money laundering.
Let me go to Geo and reading. Geo, I got
about three minutes for you, in about three for John.
(31:38):
Go right ahead, Geo. I want to hear what you
have to say.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
The word sport is misunderstood. It does not mean an
athletic competition. The word sport involves at least three people,
two of which are involved in a con job. The
people at the table knew about it because they were
involved in the con. Baseball has been what what table invented?
(32:02):
Invented during the Civil War? He master to get the
slips back back.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Again, GEO question ringer, Hello, Geo, Yes, go ahead. You
said there were three people at the table. Are you
talking about gamble gambling at a casino? I'm confused when
you said three people at the table.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
Three three take out the word table. Three people are involved. However,
the reason Plow my call was that you have misrepresented
the Rainy Day Fund. The governor has no control over
the Rainy Day Fund, and you've been saying she has
for a month. Only the legislature could spend, could take
money out of the Rainy Day Fund.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Governor has governor in Massachusetts, Geo, as you know, has trumen.
And by the way, we're not talking about the Rainy
Day Fund. Governor has tremendous influence in the Rainy Day
Fund and in the legislature.
Speaker 7 (32:52):
Legislature only the LEGISLA.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
All right, Geo, Dan, thanks very much for taking us
off topic, but we're going to stay on topic. Thanks
to you. Appreciate your call. Let me go to John
and Rockport. Hey, John, next on Nightside, How are you.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Hi, Dan? Thanks to Zaga, might call baseball right anyhow,
Louis tian Elciante would wind up. I'll be sitting at
first base, his head would go to right field. Then
had delivered the pitch. I met pol Canero, Joe Namath,
and Derek Sandison at Bachelor's three and Ken Moll square.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What guys, Yeah, that's that's quite a trifecta. What do
you think about this baseball scandal with these Guardian pitchers
Cleveland Guardian pitchers who were able to notify their friends
as to what were they going to throw a ball
or a strike as the first pitcher in the inning
that they came in. Uh, and there was a lot
of money thrown around and I think maybe if if
(33:49):
it's true, Uh, the careers of two young players could
be could be over and they could see some jail time.
Speaker 6 (33:57):
Yeah, and they might anyhow, I don't even want to
think about that. But baseball, right, I have my little
league hat I.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Was Okay, okay, yea jeg jeorg. I appreciate that. But
but that's not what we're talking about tonight, John. We're talking.
We're talking about a huge, important scandal. I want to
talk about your little league career the next time we talk,
but not tonight. Okay, thanks, Man.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
Is one thing I want to say this the veterans, right,
the reason we're free is bird because of the veterans.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Couldn't agree with you or on that. That's that's the
best thing you've said tonight. And we're going to have
a veterans salute next hour. Thanks John, appreciate it very much. Okay,
we go in a lot of different directions here on
night side. And uh to Geo's comment about the governor.
The governor, the state Senate president, and the Speaker of
(34:53):
the House, they are the three powers that do and
rule everything everything at the legislature, and the governor had
the ability to convene a meeting with the Speaker and
with the Legislature and say we need to use some
of the money from the Rainy Day Fund to help
out poor people here who are in limbo as the
(35:13):
whether or not they're going to get their snap benefits.
And the governor is the most powerful political figure in
the state. Whoever that governor is GEO, whether it's Charlie
Baker or Brian short Sleeve or Mora Handling or Moa Heally.
And it's as simple as that. And the buck stops here.
(35:35):
It stops at the president's desk, and it stops at
the governor's desk. And Harry Truman had it right. Okay,
we are going to do a salute to veterans. I
would love to hear from you. Any veteran in your family,
any veteran who you're a friend, someone who you work with,
you can do a shout out and wish them hope
that they've had a happy Veterans Day. I've got one
(35:55):
hour broadcasting. I'm off for Tomorrow night, Thursday night, and
Friday night, but I'd like to spend a really good
hour and talk to as many of you as possible
and highlight the service of veterans here across the country,
Wherever you are tonight six one, seven, two, five four
ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty
It's night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, welcome back everyone, and again Brian Shortsleeve was
our guests. It's his website is just Brian Shortsleeve dot com.
Pretty simple. That's as direct the website as you could
possibly have. I enjoyed that hour a lot of different calls,
challenging calls, calls that had genuine, genuinely good questions as
what Nightside should be should be about I want to
(00:28):
venture into the story that broke on Sunday. It's only Tuesday,
and by the way, I am off the next three nights.
I've worked every every weeknight save one night there was
a busy television reunion or October third, So I have
basically done September and October and you know about a
(00:50):
third of November here, and so I'm got a little
bit of a break and I'll be back Monday night.
So if you want to get a call in to
me tonight, you you won't be able to talk to
me probably until next Monday night. But I was stunned
by this indictment of the two Major League Baseball pitchers
(01:11):
from the Cleveland Indians, Emmanuel class A, Dela Cruz and
Luis Leandro Ortiz Robera Cruz is a closer, one of
the best closers in baseball for the last couple of years.
All Star three three seasons, three three year All Star
Ortiz had pitched or tees Ribera. But he's his name.
(01:34):
His name is, you know, in terms of his uniform,
Lewis Ortiz and Emmanuel class A c l A sc
This is the problem. And by the way, of course
you've seen the the the basketball scandal and all of
these athletes. Let me just state very clearly, both as
a talk show host and as a member of the bar. Uh,
(01:57):
these gentlemen are all innocent until proven guilty. They enjoy
the presumption of innocence. However, reading the indictments in New
York of the basketball scandal, the basketball not only betting
scandal which involved prop bets, will explain that in a moment,
(02:20):
most of you know what I'm talking about. They also
had the high end poker games. This indictment that came
out of New York, out of the Southern District of
New York, I believe on Sunday, is a devastating indictment
(02:40):
because it again puts two professional athletes who I had forgotten.
And again, you know, the Indians had a fairly good season.
They were in the playoffs. Briefly, I believe these two
guys were suspended. They were put on in definite paid
leave by MLB as part of a sports betting investigation.
(03:08):
In recent years, the only reason people get put on
suspension in either Major League Baseball or minor league baseball
is some sort of a drug test would show some
evidence of either steroids or what they call clear or
what was called clear many years ago, which was another
drug which intended to hide steroids. But what it is
(03:30):
alleged these pictures were doing and Class A since nineteen
ninety three, or tees who had been picked up by
the Pirates, last from the Pirates by the Indians, or
Tease a starter although he was used occasionally in relief
and Class A a classic relief pitch or closer. They
(03:55):
apparently had figured out that you could do prop bets
on whether the pitch that would be thrown would be
a ball or a strike, very similar to what was
going on with the former Celtic player who was playing
down in Florida who basically pulled up lame in a
(04:18):
game and let allegedly let people know that he was
going to leave the game. And here's what a prop
bet is. Let me let me explain for those of
you who don't know, when you normally think about betting,
whether you're talking about betting with a bookie or betting
somehow with the legitimate you know, I use the word
(04:38):
legitimate websites, you can bet a game. So let's say
that Patriots are playing the Buffalo Bills later this year.
When Buffalo comes into Jillette. The Patriots very well maybe
favored in that game. They've done better than Buffalo. So
let's assume the Patriots are three point favorite. Well, if
(05:00):
you want to bet the Patriots to win, they have
to win by three points or more, or they have
to win by more than three points. Oftentimes you'll see
the spread will be three and a half. We'll use
that as an example. Or let's say we'll make it
two and a half. They are two and a half
point favorite. That means they have to win by three points.
If they win the game by less than two and
(05:23):
a half points in that scenario, in this scenario, you
lose your bet. So if they win a game twenty
one to nineteen. They won the game, but you lost
your bet. If you bet the Patriots. If you bet
the Buffalo Bills in that situation, and they would be
underdog by two and a half points and they only
lose by two or they lose by one, then they
(05:43):
lose the game, but you win your bet. I think
most people get that. A prop bet are the bets
that you can have in football, Who's going to get
a touchdown? How many passing yards is golf going to get?
For the Lions against the Commanders weekend when Detroit played
the Commanders, Detroit won like forty four to twenty, and
(06:06):
they basically shut down their passing game at the end
of the game. So if you had bet that, if
let's say the line was two hundred and eighty yards
for Jared Goff, the quarterback for the Lions, once they
decided just to run the ball and run the clock out,
He's got two hundred and seventy six yards or whatever.
It was very close, but that prop bet lost. So
(06:27):
prop bets, you know, it makes it interesting, but it
also is dangerous. So in baseball, if you've watched any
of the ads for some of the sports places, one
of the ads as the guy saying, look you can
bet here and a piss's gonna be a ball or strike.
I got my bet in Look at that, I said,
(06:47):
I said strike, you got a strike. I won to bet.
That's nuts, that's nuts. I mean, that's like betting on
who's gonna who's gonna They used to joke about who's
gonna win the coin flip at the Super Bowl. Heads
are tails, you know, I mean it's that's a nutty bet.
And if you why would you be betting, Why would
(07:08):
you allow something as granular as a pitch be a
ball or strike? That is nuts. That is nuts. If
you've never thrown a pitch from sixty feet six inches,
and I have, it's it's a challenge, okay. You know,
(07:29):
major league pitchers pretty much can put most accomplished major
league pitchers can put the pitch exactly where they want it,
lowing inside, high, and outside off the plate. They have
the control, they have the command. That's what makes major
league pitchers. So pitchers always want to get ahead of
the count because if you get ahead of the count,
(07:50):
the batter is in a defensive position. If you get
behind of the count, now the batter can think to himself. Okay,
where's this pitch gonna be. It's gonna be a fastball,
it's gonna be a slider. They can kind of guess.
They do what you call guest hitting, so they can
take they can take a strike if it's not exactly
what they want. But if they think he's gonna come
(08:11):
inside with a fastball, and they load up looking inside
for fastball and they see it coming, that's when often
they take a two old pitch and put in the
left field bleachers or over the scoreboard at Fenway Park,
up up into the up into the monster seats. So
these guys allegedly Class and Ortiz, they're charged with wire fraud, conspiracy,
(08:35):
honest services wire fraud conspiracy, I don't know about that,
conspiracy to influence sporting contest by bribery, and money laundering conspiracy.
So here's the deal. They would make a deal with
their friends before the game. In this case of the
starting pitcher, first pitch in the second inning, it's going
(08:55):
to be a ball, so they could put a they
could put a bet in on that. It had nothing
to do with the game, It had nothing to do
with the team. It had everything to do with what
the pitcher was gonna throw and if that picture was
your friend, and he said, I'm throwing a ball to
whoever the first hitter is in the in the second innings.
(09:17):
Long as he gets out of the first inning, you're
gonna have a winning bet. There were apparently about a
half million dollars a little less than a half million
dollars in winnings. About four hundred thousand dollars is being
attributed to pitches that class threw from ninety three, ninety
four ninety five, and Ortiz allegedly was hooked into this
(09:39):
last year between I guess leap and May of twenty
twenty five, uh and Class A. It looks as if
he convinced Ortiz, who was a relief pitcher, not a star,
(10:00):
you should be a starter, not a relief pitcher, to
do the same thing. And money was made. So who
lost the money? Well? What the What the sports betting
companies hope is that they have fifty to fifteen betsy.
They just want to balance the bets. If there's one
(10:21):
hundred thousand dollars saying to strike one hundred thousand dollars
say in a ball, they're willing to pay off one
hundred thousand who's ride and they're going to get extra
from the people lose. I mean, you don't bet ten
dollars or one hundred dollars or one thousand dollars to
one thousand. You got to bet twelve hundred to win
a thousand. You've gotta bet one hundred and twenty to
win one hundred, and that's called the vig So the
question is this is devastating to Major League Baseball, and
(10:48):
I think that Rob Manfred has some answer some questions
to answer here, okay, because look, if the the integrity
of the game goes away, then the game goes away.
I mean, people do watch professional wrestling that they know
it's not on the level. People assume major League Baseball
(11:11):
is on the level. What I'm gonna do, It's not
gonna open up the phone lines, and I would love
to hear from those of you, particularly who like sports,
and particularly those of you who like betting. I think
they have to get rid of the prop bets. That's
what I think. Now, maybe you could argue some prop
bets if football are okay, but I don't think so,
because what happens if if some bookie gets to a
(11:33):
quarterback and says, hey, look, you know we need a
couple of interceptions this game. You know, we don't care
if you win to lose, but late in the game
you got a couple. You got to throw a couple
of balls interceptions, okay, or or you know, you could
have a problem, You could have threats, you could have
You have players who might bet themselves. Betting will be
(11:56):
the end of professional sports in America if it's not
come on to control, and there's going to have to
be an example set. These guys make a lot of money.
They did not need the extra cash. I've gone way
too long here. It's a subject that I'm interested in.
I want to hear your point of view. If you're
a better If you know about this, great, If you don't,
(12:16):
how surprised are you? How concerned are you? We learned
as kids about Shoeless Show Jackson and the nineteen nineteen
Black Sox. Do these guys not hear about this? Where
are the agents the agents who represent these guys. Are
they spending time with these players and say, hey, look,
this is a no no, you can't do this. You
can't do steroids. Okay, I know you want to turn
(12:38):
those warning track fly balls in the home runs. But
you can't do steroids, and you definitely cannot get involved
in gambling. Six one, seven through five, four, ten, thirty, six, seven, ninety.
I want to talk about this until eleven o'clock and
then eleven o'clock I want to do give you an
opportunity to salute a veteran. It is veterans say. It
is Rememberance Day in Canada, the equivalent holidays in both countries.
(13:03):
We will spend the final hour tonight remembering the service
of veterans. I want to talk about the danger to
professional sports in America, huge industry teams that are worth
billions of dollars. It could all go away. And these
teams have made this deal with Major League Sports and
guess what. It's going to get more interest in the game.
(13:24):
I get it, but it has to be on the level.
Coming back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
This, it's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay, Bob is held over from last hour. Let's see
how we're doing with Bob and Rhode Island. Bob, different
topic than you called in on, but I'd love to
know what you think about this big potential betting scandal
in baseball.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
So I have to talk about the gambling and baseball.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well, you've hung on, and you've known that I've been
talking about this.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That you I've been waiting fifty five minutes to talk
to you. That's a long time. I wanted to talk
about Laura Heally and his shot sleeve or underway.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Unfortunately, Bob, we've changed topics. I'm glad you held on.
If you don't want to talk about baseball, we'll catch
you on the other show.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Talk about baseball. Is the Red Sox stink?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And the Celtics are gonna lose.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
That's very that's very helpful, Bob. Let me ask you, Bob,
if you waited fifty four minutes, do you want to
get the plank or no?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You can give me anything you want, buddy.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Okay, here we go. Let's get out the plank. Wait
you don all right? Bob? Thanks very much. Hey, Bob,
wait a secon. He's holding on to the end of
the plank. Give it to him again. Man, that's the
first guy we double plank. He was pretty good holding
on to the end of the plank. There. Let me
go to Joe and Bell behind Joe, how are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Good? Dud good Dan, you know this strikes. This goes
back to the fifties in Thin White Park when I
was sitting in the bleaches when I was ten or thirteen,
I would see the I would overhear these old the
men betting on balls and strikes, and now that I'm
a lot older, I say to myself, get a life.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Well here's the deal. Those guys were probably betting a
quarter or a nickel or whatever, and probably at the
end of the day, one of them old, the the
other thirty cents or something, and they were guessing, were
you with the bleachers of where were you sitting back
in those days, Bob or other Joe.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Joe, Yeah I was. I was sitting in the middle
of the bleachers.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Oh okay, well, so.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
So if there was a couple.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Of old timers, and you know, when you're a young kid,
you probably said, wow, that's pretty cool. They're just they're
just making the game more interesting because they're betting probably
a nickel or a dime back in those days, and
at the end of the day, you know, one of
them old the other thirty cents or forty cents, and
that was about it. That's probably a pastime This was
a fixed, Bob Joe. This is fixed. These pitchers had
(16:07):
set it up with their buddies that the first pitch
they were gonna call, that they were gonna throw, whether
they started the game the second inning, you know, when
they got out to the second inning, or if they
came in in relief, it was preordained. And there were
thousands of dollars being bet on this. I mean, this
was fraud. This was serious stuff. This what was a
(16:29):
little game between a couple of old guys in the
bleachers next to you as a kid, now became very
very serious. These guys have been indicted. They deserve and
they maintain and they enjoyed the presumption of innocence. But
I'll tell you, if they're convicted, they're going away. And
these are guys who were making a lot of money.
(16:51):
Class had to be making at least six or seven
million dollars a year because he had been a three
time All Star, and Ortiz was making about seven hundred
and seventy thousand dollars a year, and you know he
hadn't even each free agency yet. These guys blew it.
If they're guilty, they blew it.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Man, Could I tell you about a gambling problem I had.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yes, when I was stationed in Las Vegas in the
Air Force for four years, I had a problem on
playing the football cards on the college and the pros.
And I would get hurt by spending too much money
gambling where I wouldn't have enough spending money to the
next paycheck. And I know the feeling that the nervous
(17:40):
system gets from the action and the drill in drill,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yep, I ask what years were you in the Air Force?
If I could ask, Joe.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Sixty five to sixty nine.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, so you were betting on the time when guys
like Joe Namath and John Uanias and Bart Starr and
those guys were playing for the teams and and you
were losing. I guess if you had a gambling problem.
Anybody who's winning doesn't think they have a gambling problem,
although they they only have a gambling problem too, by
the way.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
But you know what I came to reality. You know
why I quit?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
No, why did you quit?
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Because of the upset you couldn't win?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, yeah, I'm fig you know the the in those
days when you say the cards. Will you go into
the casinos? Was was sports? Betting wasn't legal in the casinos.
You you had the football cards that the mafia were circulating, right, No.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
This was illegal. They had a book joints where you
could make bets.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Did you ever win? I mean you must have won
some games to stick with it, Yes.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I did. I would win fifty bucks on five dollars
four to one.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah. That's the other thing too, in order to yeah,
you gotta get picked like four games or whatever. I know,
I know. That's similar to what they call parlay bets today,
where people will bet on a variety of you know,
on this quarterback is gonna get three hundred yards. This
receiver you know on another team is going to get
a touchdown, this running back on a third team is
(19:17):
going to get one hundred yards, and they all going
to come through for you and you might win. You
might get three out of two out of three, but
it's always the third one that kills you.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Simply do you remember the syndicated column in the newspapers
around the country, Mike Commons Football full Cast.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I don't remember that specifically.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, he used to be almost as good as Jimmy
the Greek and prognosticating he was Jimmy the Greek was
the calmness for the Las Vegas.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, if you were following Jimmy the Greek, how are
you losing?
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Well, you know, he wasn't perfect. He might pick two
out of three yeah right, yeah, and you had.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
And you had to pick three out of three. And
that's the difference. And plus they always remember the ones,
the ones that they won. They'll say I called the
super Bowl game. I was right on the money. They
don't tell you about the ten super Bowl games they missed. Joe,
I'm glad you got rid of that problem. Thank you much,
my friend. We will talk so much.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
That was a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Dan right back at you, Joe, thank you very much.
You never get to play from me. Thanks Joe, touches much.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Good night. Six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. This is
a subject I like. This is a subject that means
a lot to me. I'm a baseball person. Of all
the sports. I love hockey, I love football, i love basketball,
but I've been in love with baseball since I'm six
years old. And I would hope that this will pass
(20:43):
and that whatever reforms need to be done done. When
we get back, I'm gonna talk. I got a couple
of lines open right now. Fill these lines up, because
we're done with this. At eleven o'clock, we're gonna do
a salute to veterans beginning at eleven six, one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty six, one seven, nine ten. I
want to know if you think this is the end
(21:03):
of the scandal or this is the tip of the iceberg,
because if it's a tip of the iceberg, major League
Baseball has big problems and they got to get rid
of these prop bets. Coming back on Night Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
All right, I am so glad Melissa and Oregon was
listening tonight. Melissa is a huge baseball person. She's into stats,
she knows a lot of the players. She's a friend
of mine. She used to work in the front office
of the Cincinnati Reds, or as I call them, Cincinnati
red Legs, the more formal term, Hi Melissa, welcome back.
(21:40):
How are you good?
Speaker 5 (21:42):
How are you tonight?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I'm so happy to hear your voice tonight, Melissa.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
So I have a different take almost sure. I actually
feel like major League Baseball, the NFL, the NBA, and
the National Hockey League responsible for this area or play
a key role in it. And what I mean by
that is for years it's no gambling. You know, we
talk about when Pete Rose had his gambling instant, about
(22:10):
the signage that's on the walls, you know, within the
locker room, and this commitment to that gambling. They went
into bed with casinos, they went into bed with all
of these apps. They're they're reaping what they sell, right,
And it's kind of like the Hall of Fame, which
(22:31):
you know I adore, but if you go to the
Baseball Hall of Fame, for years they said, you know,
Pete Rose doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. But
yet when you walked through, when you walk through the
Hall of Fame, Pete Rose is stuffed four one, nine two.
You know, all these different things associated with Pete Rose
were in the Hall of Fame. And it's like, well,
(22:53):
if they're going to not let him in, then don't
let him in. That's everything, right. And I kind of
feel like there's a hypocritical opponent here with Major League
Baseball that they wanted that engagement with the casinos, with
the apps, et cetera. So now this is a consequence
of that.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Well, I think what you're saying. I think what you're
saying to me is kind of like making a deal
with the devil.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, I want to put it in religious terms here,
but uh, Rob Manford has to deal with this. I mean,
was this not predictable with the prop bets? I mean
it's tough to think. I think sports, well, exactly it is,
because again, if you're a quarterback and all of a sudden,
(23:39):
you know, you're on the board for one interception and
you're winning, you know, thirty one to ten. Uh, you know,
and if if you know, you know, if you've told
your friends, hey, look I'll probably throw one interception you
and you know you haven't thrown and maybe you've thrown
a ball a couple of times and the dbacks have
dropped the ball. You f one out there? Anybody, I
(24:02):
don't know. I think it's the prop bets, Charles Barkley
said recently, and I agree with Charles. He said you
can't fix a basketball game, and I believe you can't
fix a basketball game because if if whatever the spread is,
but you can't fix prop bets. Prop bets are easy
(24:25):
to fix. Somebody's leg, you know, comes up, you know,
with a hamstring pull. The coach can't say, no, you
got to get back out there. He's look my hamstring.
I just popped the hamstring. It's killing me.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
No, I definitely think that there's you know, they've got
some work to do there. And I think the other
part of it too is that you know, well, if
you look at some of the players that have been targeted,
people talk about, well, I was making seven hundred k
or X number a million's of dollars. A lot of
(25:00):
these players are come from a different economic social background. Sure,
so therefore they may be supporting different family members, they
may be their finances, they may be supporting you know, ten, fifteen,
twenty people. Right, so this is an education about their
finances as well. And you know, I think sometimes we
(25:23):
forget about that, right, But.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Once you make but Melissa, I agree with you, Okay,
I agree with you. If some kid comes out of
an upper middle class family and plays at Arizona State
and signs a bonus because he's the first round draft
choice at twenty two, he's in a whole different situation
than some kid who signs out at the Dominican at
the age of fourteen exactly. Okay, I'm with you totally.
But the problem is that that kid now and in
(25:47):
class A situation. I don't know what he was making.
He had to be making he was three time All Star,
had to be making six or seven millionaires are closer
for the Indians. He's not going to be making that
money if he gets convicted here he's to be and
and the people he's supporting are going to have big problems.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Yeah, and so where is the people around him?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, where are the agents? Where are the agents? I
doubt As as as an attorney, I've represented NHL players,
as I've told you, and I talked to them about
a lot of this stuff, and you almost have to
talk to them like they're your your sibling. Do you
have their older brother? Uh? And you got to say, hey, look,
you know, and this stuff wasn't around when I was
(26:27):
doing that. I mean, it's the prop bets. I'll be
really surprised if you don't agree with me. Let's get
rid of all this year.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
You know, prop bets, I agree completely, and I you know,
I hope major You know, I'd love to see this
is an opportunity for Major League Baseball to be kind
of a leader in this area and just say, hey,
we're done with those you know, we're not going to
participate with these apps. If and get and just get rid.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Of those, well that's that might be a step too far.
But the prop again, just remember what Barkley said, what
Charles Charles Barkley said, you can't fix a basketball game,
and I agree with him. I really believe that. I mean,
you have to know who's got the ball with two
seconds left to go and it's taking that three point shot,
and does he miss it intentionally? I guess theoretically you could,
(27:18):
but it's it's so difficult to fix a game by
the prop bet easy easy.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
And then there's another component to those in that is,
like I said earlier, you know, where are the leagues
when it comes to sitting down and when they're when
they're dancing with the devil? Well, what can they say,
you know, speaking up and saying we're not going to
tell we don't want this. You know, there's such powerful organizations,
(27:50):
and yet they didn't think that they would need to
use their power and say look, we're not. We don't
be a part of this.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Have you have you read the indictment out of New
York on these two Indian pictures?
Speaker 6 (28:06):
You know, I have not.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's a devastating it. It's a twenty three page indictment.
They have it almost down to the minute when the
course they have you know better one better too, So
they have obviously turned some people. Uh and they got
the this is this is a devastating indictment. I mean
it's there's they have literally when the bank when money
(28:33):
was withdrawn, when money was was sent, I mean, the
FBI did it, did a lot.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
Everything so electronic. You know, we've got the situation with
Chauncy Billips are in Portland. I mean it's you know,
and a lot of people have said, well because they're competitive,
I don't know what it is, and I know, I
know we have here in Oregon. We have you can
walk into any bar and they're there are a maximum
(29:02):
of six machines where you can gamble, you know, just
like you're going to a spot machine.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
And so gambling is quite huge here and it's cross
the US. It's not just Vegas in Atlantic City anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
More. Thought anymore. Melissa, thanks so much for calling in
all the way from tonight.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
You decided to tackle this. And you know what bums
me out, is it if it takes away from the
great on the field stuff. You know, we had a
wonderful World Series there, you know, you know, a Tawny,
all these great things that are happening in the sport,
and then we have this to take away from it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But listen, let me let me ask you a real
quick question. Okay, and I'm passing my break here, so
I got to be real quick. I did not realize
and I follow it pretty closely. The class A and
Ortiz had been suspended on July twenty eighth, July.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, and I think they held that back. I think
this is just my take. I don't know me insight,
but this is serious stuff, right, and so they I
think both the FBI and the league and the team
wanted to manage that.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah. Well, what you're saying is they held it till
after the World Series. And you know what, in deference
to the players, to the Dodgers and the Blue Jays
was a great World Series. They did the right thing.
I'm not sure they found class or tease apparently was
living in Boston, which I think he's a kid from
the Dominican. We have a big Dominican population in Boston.
Maybe he has family in Boston. He got arrested at
Logan Airport. I don't thinks is in custody yet. So yeah,
(30:36):
this is tough, tough stuff.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
It's bad and the NBA situation is bad. And the
sad part is you know it won't be a story
next week.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Oh well yeah, I don't know. I think who knows.
There may be more stuff too. By the way, once
one person is trapped, then they may say, hey, I
got somebody else on another team. Who knows where it
might go.
Speaker 7 (30:59):
Thanks Melissa for checking it out.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Take care, good night, Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Good night. Back on Nightside right after this, I got
Geo and Reading and John and Rock Pop. We're gonna
get him both in gentlemen, coming back.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w Z
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
So we're talking about two professional baseball players, two pitchers
for the Cleveland Guardians, Emmanuel Class and Louis Ortiz, under
indictment for fraud, wire fraud conspiracy, honor services, wire fraud conspiracy,
conspiracy to influenced sporting contest by bribery and money laundering.
Let me go to Geo and reading. Geo, I got
about three minutes for you, in about three for John.
(31:38):
Go right ahead, Geo. I want to hear what you
have to say.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
The word sport is misunderstood. It does not mean an
athletic competition. The word sport involves at least three people,
two of which are involved in a con job. The
people at the table knew about it because they were
involved in the con. Baseball has been what what table invented?
(32:02):
Invented during the Civil War? He master to get the
slips back back.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Again, GEO question ringer, Hello, Geo, Yes, go ahead. You
said there were three people at the table. Are you
talking about gamble gambling at a casino? I'm confused when
you said three people at the table.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
Three three take out the word table. Three people are involved. However,
the reason Plow my call was that you have misrepresented
the Rainy Day Fund. The governor has no control over
the Rainy Day Fund, and you've been saying she has
for a month. Only the legislature could spend, could take
money out of the Rainy Day Fund.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Governor has governor in Massachusetts, Geo, as you know, has trumen.
And by the way, we're not talking about the Rainy
Day Fund. Governor has tremendous influence in the Rainy Day
Fund and in the legislature.
Speaker 7 (32:52):
Legislature only the LEGISLA.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
All right, Geo, Dan, thanks very much for taking us
off topic, but we're going to stay on topic. Thanks
to you. Appreciate your call. Let me go to John
and Rockport. Hey, John, next on Nightside, How are you.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Hi, Dan? Thanks to Zaga, might call baseball right anyhow,
Louis tian Elciante would wind up. I'll be sitting at
first base, his head would go to right field. Then
had delivered the pitch. I met pol Canero, Joe Namath,
and Derek Sandison at Bachelor's three and Ken Moll square.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What guys, Yeah, that's that's quite a trifecta. What do
you think about this baseball scandal with these Guardian pitchers
Cleveland Guardian pitchers who were able to notify their friends
as to what were they going to throw a ball
or a strike as the first pitcher in the inning
that they came in. Uh, and there was a lot
of money thrown around and I think maybe if if
(33:49):
it's true, Uh, the careers of two young players could
be could be over and they could see some jail time.
Speaker 6 (33:57):
Yeah, and they might anyhow, I don't even want to
think about that. But baseball, right, I have my little
league hat I.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Was Okay, okay, yea jeg jeorg. I appreciate that. But
but that's not what we're talking about tonight, John. We're talking.
We're talking about a huge, important scandal. I want to
talk about your little league career the next time we talk,
but not tonight. Okay, thanks, Man.
Speaker 6 (34:22):
Is one thing I want to say this the veterans, right,
the reason we're free is bird because of the veterans.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Couldn't agree with you or on that. That's that's the
best thing you've said tonight. And we're going to have
a veterans salute next hour. Thanks John, appreciate it very much. Okay,
we go in a lot of different directions here on
night side. And uh to Geo's comment about the governor.
The governor, the state Senate president, and the Speaker of
(34:53):
the House, they are the three powers that do and
rule everything everything at the legislature, and the governor had
the ability to convene a meeting with the Speaker and
with the Legislature and say we need to use some
of the money from the Rainy Day Fund to help
out poor people here who are in limbo as the
(35:13):
whether or not they're going to get their snap benefits.
And the governor is the most powerful political figure in
the state. Whoever that governor is GEO, whether it's Charlie
Baker or Brian short Sleeve or Mora Handling or Moa Heally.
And it's as simple as that. And the buck stops here.
(35:35):
It stops at the president's desk, and it stops at
the governor's desk. And Harry Truman had it right. Okay,
we are going to do a salute to veterans. I
would love to hear from you. Any veteran in your family,
any veteran who you're a friend, someone who you work with,
you can do a shout out and wish them hope
that they've had a happy Veterans Day. I've got one
(35:55):
hour broadcasting. I'm off for Tomorrow night, Thursday night, and
Friday night, but I'd like to spend a really good
hour and talk to as many of you as possible
and highlight the service of veterans here across the country,
Wherever you are tonight six one, seven, two, five four
ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty
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