December 22, 2024 • 36 mins
Unlock the secrets of multi-channel marketing with RJ Schultz from Blip Billboards. Learn how to engage audiences across platforms and build trust using Google's 7-11-4 rule: seven hours of interaction, 11 touchpoints, and four platforms. Discover the power of long-form content like podcasts to foster relationships and brand loyalty.
RJ shares insights on blending digital and traditional strategies, showcasing full-funnel marketing's psychological and strategic advantages. Explore case studies, including McDonald’s success in pairing digital ads with billboards for cohesive brand experiences.
This episode emphasizes understanding your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) to target audiences effectively in both digital and physical spaces. We highlight the importance of a 90-day advertising commitment and a balanced budget to achieve impactful results. From marketing psychology to actionable Blip Billboards strategies, gain valuable tips for businesses of all sizes to boost brand recognition and consumer engagement.
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Guest Contact Information:
- https://offers.blipbillboards.com/podcast
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/schultzrj/
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The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing podcast is a podcast hosted by Internet marketing expert Matthew Bertram. The show provides insights and advice on digital marketing, SEO, and online business.
Topics covered include keyword research, content optimization, link building, local SEO, and more. The show also features interviews with industry leaders and experts who share their experiences and tips.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host, matt Bertram.
For those of you watching,matthewbertramcom is what I'll
get launched next year as far asthe coaching program going, and
also I'm going to be havingsome new handles come out.
Any of you watching still seethe old podcast cover.
(00:36):
So we do have a new podcastcover, so be looking out for
that.
I didn't really want my face sobig on it, but it is on there.
Look for internet marketingreal big if you're looking for
it or if you haven't beenlistening in a while.
But we're going to be rock androlling next year.
We're going to have a lot ofstuff going, if you see it.
(01:02):
InternetmarketingsecretscomInternet Marketing Secrets
hashtag is where we're going tobe found starting next year.
Got a great guest for you todayto continue the conversation on
the degradation of and changesin click volume online.
How you have to be other places.
I got RJ Schultz with me herefrom Blip Billboards.
(01:23):
Hey RJ, how are you doing buddy?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Doing well, Matt.
It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, one of the things that we were talking
about was that rule that Googlecame out with the 7-11-4 rule.
Right, and really anybodythat's been in digital marketing
for a while knows you knowseven times people got to hear
your information.
I think with the proliferationof ads everywhere, uh, that
(01:47):
number's probably gone up quitea bit.
Um, actually 11,.
So sorry, 11, but seven hours,and I've talked about that a lot
on this podcast and that's whyI really believe in long form
content.
Um, is someone's got to consumeseven hours of your content,
okay, to to actually know, likeand trust and do business with
you, and one of the best ways toreach somebody doing that is
(02:09):
through podcasting or long formcontent.
But tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
I love what your company'sdoing, I love how you're
disrupting the space and we canstart the conversation maybe
with the 7-11-4 rule, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, 7-11-4, I think it's the evolution of what we
all heard growing up.
Going to school People need tosee you a bunch of times seven
or eight times before they'reready to decide to choose you.
Google put some research intothis a year and a half ago and
published what they call 7-11-4.
Year and a half ago, andpublished what they call 7-11-4.
(02:47):
And seven hours.
Like you mentioned, 11interactions across those seven
hours, and most effective whenthose interactions happen across
four different platforms.
And so that's really what we atBlip have been teaching our
clients or our users toimplement in their full funnel
marketing.
It's like you've got to get towhere your target audience is
and be part of their daily life.
(03:08):
You need to be giving themcontent that helps them feel
better at their jobs, andconnecting 11 times over seven
hours in four different places,and we found that, as we took
that approach, like we juststarted to see all the key
metrics.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, I mean that speaks so much to what we've
been also doing internally, likeso we've known right that you
know 7-11 touch points, like Ithink, 11.
Yeah, that's about the rightnumber.
I think it's maybe even alittle bit higher.
The seven hours we've beentalking about that.
I put that in my book, likeyears ago Build your Brand Mania
how do you reach that?
(03:45):
What's the most effective wayto reach that number?
Even in no like trust, I talkabout that.
The four different channels.
That's something we've seen.
We've seen AdWords not workvery effectively.
I think it's oversaturated,especially since COVID.
We've pushed people out to Bing, duckduckgo, which is pretty
easy.
You got AI and AI chathappening, but we've really
(04:10):
pushed out our clients to runbranded campaigns, visibility
campaigns on multiple channelsand kind of spraying that out,
kind of blue ocean strategystrategy.
We're seeing that too.
When people are hearing you onmultiple channels, that comes
together.
So this study I'm going to putthat link in the show notes for
everybody too, because we followthe EAT metric as well that
(04:33):
Google put out there theexpertise, authority, trust.
They add the experiencecomponent to that, and so I just
love that.
Tell me a little bit about yourbackground.
I know we were talking aboutsome veteran stuff before this
as well.
How did you come to thisevolution with Lip?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Great question, man.
I am absolutely a businesstransplant.
I never thought that I'd bestarting companies or running
companies or working incompanies at all.
I spent the first part of myprofessional life in the
government and I thought thatthat might be where I spend my
whole life.
So I went to undergrad andstudied aeronautical science
(05:14):
concurrently, got a pilot'slicense and then joined out of
school.
I joined an intelligenceprogram that was affiliated with
the Army the US Army and wentstraight into three years of
training and so for three years,like I was absent and I emerged
26, 27 years old, still neverhaving even worked a real job
you know what I mean Just so farfrom the wisdom of the world,
(05:37):
so to speak and went operationaland had a lot of fun.
I got to see some of the worldthat I wouldn't have seen
otherwise, and even over thepast couple of years it's been
cool to see some of those sameplaces but through a different
lens, like as a tourist or, youknow, for this type of work.
And it's been a lot of fun.
But I started having kids anddecided that that is not where I
(05:59):
wanted to be long term.
In fact, when my first son wasthree, I was home.
I was gone a lot, but I washome and we were playing like
cars on the floor.
He's like, dad, this is fun.
And I'm like, yeah, buddy, Ithink so too, man, this is great
.
And he's like next time I wantto do it at your house.
I was like, oh man, like my sondoesn't even think I live here,
(06:20):
you know what I mean.
And so that that truly was theimpetus for me to start looking
beyond government work and Ijust went straight to, like the
Google search bar and I was likewhat's next?
What can I do?
What do people who leave thisline of work end up pursuing?
And I settled on businessschool and so went to business
school and during businessschool well, actually in the
(06:43):
government I applied to aprogram called, like McKinsey
and Companies Emerging Scholarsand I became a semi-finalist
there and so got onto campus andcontinued into those activities
and thought like, yeah, this isgoing to be great Once I get
there.
I'm like this is not going tobe great.
This is absolutely not what Iwant to do.
Like no way, this is justanother place to.
(07:04):
Well, I mean, I won't disparagethat publicly, because it's a
fantastic route.
You know consulting is afantastic route, but I really
got.
I became enamored with the ideaof starting and working on new
ventures through some classes Iwas taking, and so after that I
went after school, I went toAmazon in Seattle and worked on
(07:28):
an emerging markets team, andthat fed the beast a little bit
more.
And after a year or so, many ofus were looking around thinking
like why are we, why are wedoing this for someone else,
like let's go do this ourselves.
And so I left Amazon for ayounger company.
I think I arrived at theirSeries B.
So it was another educationalcouple of years for me to see a
(07:50):
company grow from $20 million to$100 million plus.
And I left that for Blip, whichwas even smaller, way smaller.
And so that's been theevolution of things, and it's
been a fun ride, that is forsure.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So so, to just educate everybody which I it was
new to me as well.
So so, blip is digitalbillboards where you can
basically buy at certain times,like just fractionally, right,
it's kind of like a fractional,like Uber of billboards, right,
like?
Tell me a little bit about it.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, and when I hear digital billboards and when you
guys hear digital billboards,you're probably thinking the
same thing.
I thought when this jobopportunity like came up, I'm
like billboards, like where'sthe time machine to take me back
to the 50s, like I do not wantto spend my career around this
medium.
But you're right, it's an uberstyle marketplace, right, and so
it's best understood.
Using uber as a proxy you got,uber is a scheduling algorithm.
It's an Uber-style marketplace,right, and so it's best
(08:43):
understood.
Using Uber as a proxy You'vegot Uber as a scheduling
algorithm.
It's a piece of technology in atwo-sided marketplace.
It sits between car owners andcar riders, but Uber does not
ride, they do not own cars.
We're the same.
We're a scheduling algorithmthat sits between board owners,
billboards, car toppers, wallscapes, whatever and people who
advertise.
And we don't own billboards andwe don't advertise.
(09:05):
We just connect the two throughan open exchange.
So the value proposition is youknow, with Uber you can get a
$15 ride from the airportinstead of a $50,000 car that
you're now stuck with.
With us, you can pay whateveryou want to pay for a week
advertising in Times Squareinstead of figuring out who owns
that board and then going on toa multi-year contract and
spending millions of dollars toget into Times Square.
(09:27):
So it's a lot more control withthe spend that you have and the
big value is it allows us SMBsto play in out of home, because
before we don't have the runway,the purse, the budget to accept
these big contracts as part ofour marketing expense.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, yeah, we were talking about like conferences,
right, like all the differentbillboards when you, when
someone gets off a plane, off oflike certain routes, right,
like to be so nimble to be ableto be at the right time to reach
the right people when you havethe density that you're looking
for, or different kinds ofevents.
I mean, is it tell me a littlebit about like use cases as well
(10:04):
as like, is it a a bid auction?
Like how, how does it work?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, so it's the second place bid auction.
Use cases are reallyinteresting Interesting for us
in particular because it's notsomething that we went out and
championed.
We just kind of put our headsdown, built, went to work and
then came up for air and startedto look at the customer data to
tell us what people were doingwith it and it's like, oh my
gosh, that's kind of cool.
So you have everything from aproud parent who wants to tell
(10:30):
the small town they live in thattheir son or daughter just
graduated high school andthey'll leave that up for a week
.
We've got an interesting usecase is musicians, mainly
rappers.
You know they'll plot theirtour locations, their tour map,
and then they'll buy upbillboards in those cities a
month prior and they'll justpepper their tour path for
(10:52):
ticket sales.
Right, and, like you mentioned,it gives them that control,
that geo control over locations,which is something people find
a lot of value in and we seeused pretty widely.
You got use cases like that allthe way up to um.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
you know berkshire hathaway and you know keller
williams, these big real estategroups who have multiple
locations all over and need toshift focus from one place to
the other for whatever reason,and amazon prime that spends a
ton of money um so well, I meanI just like the democratization,
okay, of of now you have thesemedia channels that you can
(11:29):
reach people, that before youmight have to have a huge budget
to be able to do it, and, uh,huge relationships, huge
contracts to reach these people.
I mean they're they're openingup um disney plus and amazon and
netflix, all these bid auctionplaces, right, so you can build
a strategy where you're hittingthose multiple touch points and
(11:50):
staying in front of people.
I think that digital billboardsa lot of times when I think
about it, I think about like,well, that's what display ads
are, right, like digitalbillboards chasing around on
your phone.
You're talking about digitalbillboards, like on billboards,
like out there, like anythingthat's digital, that you see it
changing.
Yeah, how, how do you connectthat whole network?
Right, so that that's whatyou're doing.
You're bringing that togetherand collecting that inventory.
(12:14):
I think it's just a phenomenalway to get more reach.
I mean the world today, witheven social media and how TikTok
changed the algorithm.
I mean one post, you can reachmillions of people, right, you
can.
A post in Reddit is bigger thana traditional press release.
Right Now you're able toincorporate that traditional
like if they're not on theirphone they're walking around
(12:34):
looking at something, and themore digital billboards there
are, the more you can kind ofbuild out what that experience
is right.
And so I think that there's alot, there's gonna be a lot of
evolution of this, of even likeVR and like everything
connecting, I guess, and howaugmented reality that's where I
(12:56):
was going, sorry, I was like VRis like really augmented
reality and Google Glasses andlike how everything's gonna be
an experience and even like whatI'm seeing in the art is
digital billboards.
Big digital billboards are partof it all, and if you have
access to reach people in thatway and you need to touch them
on multiple touch pointsmultiple times, like this should
(13:17):
be a tool in everyone's arsenalis really the way I thought
about it.
And when I saw what you weredoing and military background
and everything, I was like let'stalk, like tell me more about
it.
I mean what?
Can you share any interestinginsights into some of the data?
Maybe expound upon the 7-Eleven4 rule with Google, like how
(13:40):
are you seeing it pulled throughand how are you seeing people
use maybe multimedia like, ordifferent channels, what's their
marketing mix and how they'reincorporating this into it?
I just really wanna hear kindof use cases, because I just
think it's super fascinatingLike smart marketing, right,
like let's talk about smartmarketing, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Absolutely.
I think the message, you knowthe answer to all that is a few
fold, and then I'll break thesedown.
It's like people need to beconditioned before they're ready
to choose you.
They need to know something andthey need to feel something,
and those somethings are prettydefined by the interested
(14:20):
parties, right?
So people need to knowsomething, they need to feel
something, and the question fora marketer whose job is to drive
demand is like, how do I mosteffectively move a person from
unaware along that path toknowing something and feeling
something such that they'reready to purchase?
And I think the key is to pointappropriate advertising mediums
(14:42):
at them, depending on wherethey are along that 7-11-4, you
know pathway or journey to you,right?
And so that's what I think itis and that's what we call smart
marketing.
Right?
What's the most efficient andeffective way to condition your
audience or to develop youraudience, to get what's called
qualified impressions?
And we push that smartmarketing centers on this
(15:06):
concept of qualified impressions.
Qi.
This is something.
It's a proprietary term.
It's something that we've beenusing internally, because one
thing we struggled with early onwas convincing people to choose
billboards as part of their mix.
The first objection is like no,I don't want to use billboards,
I'm already using this.
And we're always like we're notasking you to stop using that
and start using billboards,we're asking you to make more
(15:30):
effective or more efficient atthe top of your funnel.
To make more effective or moreefficient at the top of your
funnel.
My favorite study ever and Ihave to say I cannot find it
anywhere on the internet anymoreLike in 2020, I took some
absent time.
I'm still affiliated with thegovernment and like a I own you
reserve capacity type thing.
So in 2020, I spent like ninemonths in Syria and when I came
(15:52):
back, like this thing was gone.
I could not find it anywhere.
But before I left, I was justchampioning this thing and I
remember the details well.
So McDonald's launched a menuitem in five cities.
These were DMAs like Dallas,oklahoma City, that type of
thing.
They launched a menu item infive cities.
In all five cities, they didsix weeks of Facebook
advertising.
In four of the five cities theylayered billboards on top of
(16:16):
the Facebook for the same period, same six weeks, and those four
cities combined to outperformin sales the control city by
729%.
And that's the message we have.
Right, utilize the full funnelmarketing approach so that you
can create those meaningfultouch points for your target
(16:39):
audience.
Because, like you mentioneddegradation, like digital
marketing, nothing I say isabsolute right.
Digital marketing in some waysis becoming degradated.
It really is because you showan ad to someone five times, it
doesn't know who you are yet andyou're trying to develop them
along that path of seven hoursand 11 touch points and four
(17:03):
different platforms.
Well, if they don't know whoyou are yet and they swipe your
ad away or they spend no timewith it, they don't engage with
it the algorithm is not likelyto show it to that person again.
So you are just wasting money,and a lot of times at a very
high CPM $14 to $18 on Facebook,for example to no avail, right.
And so, like, the whole messageis use the full funnel.
(17:25):
I'm super interested in and wehave a couple of professors at a
few local universities, brighamYoung University being the main
one in Utah researching thisfor us Because it's like why did
those four cities outperformthe control city by 729%?
And I am super interested inthat because it brings into
(17:45):
question the psychology ofsurvival, which deals a lot with
my background and essentiallywhat we're saying there is when
you are served an ad on yourphone and you're like on the
toilet or you're playing chessor you're scrolling Instagram or
whatever you do on your phone,you're not in shot mode and you
swipe that away.
And very rarely do you tune inand like give it an honest look.
(18:09):
But when you're confronted by abillboard for eight seconds,
like it's forever and that wasonly two seconds, right?
You're forced to psychologicallyingest colors, logos, maybe a
couple of words, even if you'redriving in a daze, right, you're
forced to psychologicallyingest those things.
So the next time it surfaces onyour phone, at the subconscious
(18:29):
level, your fight or flightkicks in and says like, hey,
matt, where you recognize thesecolors, this logo, this word,
they're in the database.
Do we need to dwell an extrasecond to see if it's a benefit
or a threat?
And the answer isphysiologically yes, right.
And so that's thedifferentiator, right there.
And that's the importance ofmatching this medium out of home
(18:51):
to everything else you're doingdown funnel, matching this
medium out of home to everythingelse you're doing down.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Funnel Dude, rj.
This is just super interesting.
Like I love the psychology talkof of the marketing component
of it.
I, I'm, I'm really fascinated.
I, I, I would love to, when youfind that study, send that
through, or even the researchthat you find, because I'm, I'm,
you know.
Here's what I can tell you.
I've run a lot of campaigns.
The pushback I get isattribution right, like you know
, like how do I?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
convert.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I'm spending money on this.
I got you know CMOs, I got youknow business owners.
Hey, like I'm spending money onthis, like I want to know where
that conversion is right andwe're a big search marketing
company and and Google is kindof like today is where people
(19:40):
are going through somevalidation, but it they gets the
attribution a lot because it'sthe last click okay, it's not
the first click.
That starts on social media,that starts on billboards, that
starts somewhere else that thedemand gets created.
Right, and what I've seen on alot of campaigns is like radio
I've done a lot of radio stuffright, whether it be streaming
radio, whether it be terrestrialradio, um, and and we see brand
lift like heavy right, peopleare searching for the name.
(20:03):
Google likes that right, theywant to work with brands, they
want to.
There's a trust factorassociated with that.
I like this fight or flightinstinct.
I have not gone down thatrabbit hole enough and I would
love to expand upon that and inour conversation.
If you have more to add to that, I I can just tell you, I, when
I look at, I look at themarketing channels we put
(20:25):
together.
What is the end goal?
That I mean the attribution.
It just should be like okay,like an average way to cross
them all, whatever.
But what is the result of whatit's pushing, um, whether it be
like you know, influence, um,whether it be like the bottom
line sales, whatever it have youlike, all of these things
combined give you a multipliereffect and, and I like that,
(20:46):
that you have to be confrontedwith something before you make a
decision.
I think that there's a trustcomponent to that.
When you see something on abillboard like, there's
established like a feeling oflike permanence right, that's a
legit company that's up on thatbillboard.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
mean.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
With ads.
You can just see ads and Ithink to your point too, you can
run that ad and hit that sameperson over and over again and
they're just going to keepswiping away that this is not
interesting to me.
So you have to hit them at adifferent vertical, a different
angle, with a different messageto, to, to try to get it into
their subconscious to actuallylike you know.
That's why the taglines are soimportant to get them to
(21:26):
actually open it, open the ad oror read beyond that, because
they're hit with so much and andand.
That's kind of what I uh gutlythink some of it is is like man,
there's some permanenceassociated with this, um, you
know the like that that messagemight be a little bit different,
um, but it approaches and hitsthem, like you said, at a
different time of what they'redoing.
(21:47):
That that puts it in there Someconscious, in a different way,
like.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, phenomenal.
I mean to anyone listeningtoday.
You don't say it out loud inyour car or whatever, but like
what do you read on aChick-fil-A billboard?
You know, right, eat morechicken.
It's like the quintessentialbillboard campaign that does
exactly what you're talkingabout, hits them from a
different angle, stays in theirmind, stays in their mind.
It's very authoritative, it'svery consistent and it's very
(22:12):
trustworthy.
But you know, billboards arejust that and not to mention,
relatively cheap, right, and youknow if you broke down what the
, what smart marketing lookslike.
It's like you think about thispathway with seven steps or 11
steps that people need to tostand on at one point in time to
(22:32):
start building trust with you.
It's like, how do you deliverthose 11 meaningful touch points
across this journey from whenthey don't know you to them?
You know being ready to buy andbillboards have their place,
right?
It's not just do billboardsuntil they see you 11 times.
It's like use out of home forawareness, maybe those first two
, three, four impressions.
Because's accessible, it'sefficient and it's authoritative
(22:56):
, right?
One thing we worry about withdigital advertising Facebook
meta, for example is like areour ads being served to people
or to bot accounts?
Because that's an expensivething to just deal with, right.
But with billboards, you can besure that it's an actual set of
eyes that's seeing that ad,right.
So, first couple of impressions, billboards.
Next couple of impressionsmaybe three, four, five, six,
(23:18):
seven.
Keep the billboards going andthen start to mix in some of
your own content, the stuff thatyou're doing online podcasts,
things like that so that whenpeople listen to a podcast or
they're fed an online ad, theycan start to make the
(23:38):
connections with the things thatthey're seeing out on the
freeway and out in the city,things like that.
And then, once you're sure thata large percentage, large
enough percentage, of some areahas seen your ad six, seven
times, yeah, be okay, layeringin that expensive one-to-one
digital call to action with ameta ad or the like.
And so that's where we've triedto play in the last year and
that's what we're rolling out.
(23:59):
What we've rolled out about sixmonths ago is there are multiple
brains at the decision table inany company, right, and one
half of the table is likeperformance marketing,
attribution.
I need to know how many dollarswe're putting in and how many
dollars we're getting out, andthat's a hard thing to prove
with brand marketing with brandadvertising right, and you'll
(24:22):
see a lot of companies plateau.
They'll stall because thatmentality will prevail.
It'll win the day and they'llpump more money into paid ads
and they'll do things they can,they can track, because they
want to show each other andthey're bored like.
This is our growth.
You know what I mean.
But you got brands that havefigured it out liquid death
locally kizik.
You know some of these brandsthat everyone knows about um,
(24:43):
because they're such good brandmarketers, and so we've tried to
determine how can we speak toboth heads so that they can
believe they can agree onsomething at that decision table
.
And that's where we came upwith what we call QI qualified
impressions.
It's going to be a disservice toforce your marketers to try and
(25:03):
bring you know one-to-oneattribution to a billboard,
right.
But what we can do withgovernment data, with GeoPath
and all this stuff we know aboutour demographics and our cities
in the United States.
We can do with government data,with geopath and all this stuff
we know about our demographicsin our cities in the united
states.
We can run a statistical modelthat will say, with a relative
degree of certainty this is howmany people have seen your ad x
(25:24):
number of times, based on thelength of time your ad has been
up, how many times you show itlike, how much.
You know how many boards arethe same area, stuff like that,
and so you can buy say a, amillion impressions from a
billboard company and they'llsay, hey, yep, this has been
seen a million times.
Here's the proof that it's upon that board.
And then you're done.
But with us we go two stepsfurther to try and speak to both
(25:47):
of those brains at the strategytable.
Come by the million impressionsand you know, say it's in salt
lake city, that's, that's wherewe're headquartered.
So I use that as an example.
Say it's in Salt Lake City.
We'll be able to say, hey, thisis not a million people, this
is two hundred and seventy twothousand people, nine thousand
of whom have seen it one time,eleven thousand of whom have
seen it twice, forty threethousand three times, and so on
(26:08):
and so forth.
And so we can produce thisstatistical like bell curve that
shows, all right, a criticalmass of people in this area have
seen your ad more than fourtimes.
It's time to feel okay,layering on that expensive
digital marketing, becausethey're primed, they know you,
they're ready to go.
And then the third thing we cando in that same scenario for the
(26:29):
same customer is to say, like,when we do have a critical mass
of people who have seen you, youknow, four or five times, we
can help you by retargeting.
So we'll put a geofence througha partner, put a geofence
around either your store or ourboard, and then, anytime they
drive through, we can shoot amobile ad right to their device.
And so this, this is our answer.
(26:50):
This idea of qualifiedimpressions is our answer to
that.
Why can't I, you know, giveproper attribution to billboards
?
Well, like, let's give ussomething we can track and
measure, and that's a qualifiedimpression.
And so I'll end that littlerant with a quick definition of
what a qualified impression is.
And a qualified impression isan impression delivered to
someone who has seen you atleast six times.
(27:12):
If you deliver an impression tosomeone who's seen you once,
twice, three times, four, fiveor six times, or four or five
times, that's a generalimpression.
But the impression becomesqualified once they've seen you
six times, because now you canfeel really good about the trust
that you've started to buildand really good about spending a
little bit more on the digitalfront to convert these customers
no, I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I I mean the data I've seen is like when, anytime
even you're running digital ads,you've got to wait about two
weeks to see any kind of reallike data, like you've got to
hit them a few times to to letit soak into the psyche.
You know, and one of the thingsthat we we mentioned previously
that I think is worth bringingup and I think this is a great
time for the call, at least inin my journey.
You know everything's.
(27:54):
It's interesting becausecertain people are brought to
you at different times, right,like you think it might be
serendipitous, but there'sprobably like something to that.
But at the conference, theBrighton conference that I was
at, the keynote speakers alltalked about how click volume is
going down and how you need tobuild a brand right and build it
(28:17):
on other people's platforms,how you need to build a brand
right and it's and build it onother people's platforms, build
it everywhere you can, but buildit in the, in the mind right Of
of your target customer.
It doesn't need to be on yournow.
Email does great, okay, emailstill crushes it Okay, and I
think everybody said it wasgoing to die for a long time,
but a lot of people talk abouthey, you got to build it on your
own property.
(28:38):
You never know how these socialmedia platforms are going to
change things.
I mean, they're starting tobecome more like public
utilities to a certain degree,um, and I think that they're
going to be around and like anyof the rules like are probably
good for the whole and youshould navigate around those,
but you should be everywhere,right, you should be everywhere
and you should be building umyour brand in the uh, mind of
the client and and it.
(28:59):
And it shouldn't matter on theclick right, it shouldn't matter
on the attribution, if you knowthat they're seeing it, because
that is the issue.
I mean, there's even companiesout there that their whole job
is they get a percentage of adspend to get out all the bots,
right, and this one company Iwas talking to you had to spend
a million dollars and theycharged 1% of the ad spend to
(29:21):
basically get rid of all thebots.
Well, if you have to spend atleast a million dollars, how
many of those clicks are botsversus?
real image, so, so.
So there's all these differentcomponents in this complex world
on how to reach people, and theright answer is like all of
them, I believe Right.
The right answer is like all ofthem, I believe Right, and this
(29:41):
should be a tool in the toolbelt and it really should be
looking at.
Well, do you have enough budget,one to figure out how many
channels you need to be on?
Like, maybe talk to me a littlebit about, for let's talk about
a smaller company and a biggercompany, maybe like, or give me
like, a couple of scenarios howthey might incorporate this is
that add on strategy, right,like, not the sole strategy, but
an add-on strategy to whatthey're doing digitally to
(30:02):
expand their reach, to expand,um, you know, uh, uh, the
customer base.
Um, I, I've even seen data forsome different kind of platforms
and different kind of things.
Some of these people, like youmight not, you might be able to
reach people on a billboard thataren't on social media, right,
like, there's probably a dataset of people that are not on
(30:23):
some of these social mediachannels.
That well, you're reaching themin the physical world, right,
and so just kind of curious howyou would structure something
like that for big and smallcompanies.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, good question.
A lot of caveats here.
So I'll start out by saying,like, everything I would
recommend doing starts with whoyou're targeting, right.
So really, really in-depthunderstanding of where your ICP
lives.
You know where they work, whatthey do, their hopes and dreams
all that because your company,your brand, needs to become part
(30:56):
of that world for them, Right.
And so if in that research, youfind that your ICP spends time
on the road, spends timedowntown or stuff like that,
then billboards are anappropriate medium for you to
add into the mix at the right,at the right time, Right.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Their target persona.
You got to know your targetpersona and a lot of people just
start marketing without eventhinking through all that stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
That is super critical.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, absolutely so in terms of spend, for, like a
small company, we tell this topeople all the time, like very,
very bluntly up front, becausethe last thing we want is for
someone to try us for a monthand be like nothing happened.
Well, I can tell you right nownothing is going to happen in a
month.
Right, you need to think about90 days because you're
saturating an area so thatpeople see you multiple times.
(31:43):
Right, you're trying to havethat eat more chicken effect in
one particular area so thatpeople can just recall the taste
of your product or the feelingthey get when they use it or eat
it or whatever it is.
That that's what you're tryingto affect, the type of change
you're trying to affect.
Right, and so 90 days typically,pretty, typically pretty safe
window and depending on the sizeof the city, like Salt Lake,
(32:05):
for example, it needs to bebetween $3,000 and $5,000.
That will get you 60% of thepopulation in these DNAs,
roughly 60% of the population tosee you six times, and so
that's just general rule ofthumb.
But we have tools.
You give us your ICP, you tellus where you live and where you
want to target and we'll run itthrough the tool, but generally
(32:26):
it's like 3 to 5K a month for 90days and you'll start seeing
results.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Awesome, so I think this should be a tool in
everyone's tool belt.
I really thought what you'redoing is fascinating.
One stool belt.
I really thought what you'redoing is fascinating, so I'm so
glad I had you on and couldshare you with the audience.
Before we go like what is oneunknown secret of internet
marketing that you might nothave shared, or if you want to
repackage it in a different way,just say if someone is, like
(32:52):
you know, wanting to takesomething away, what's the one
biggest takeaway?
I guess.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And I did share a little bit of this, so let me
try and repackage it.
But I think it's widelyoverlooked that even when we say
we want to be the most creativecompany, we want to be in
people's minds Like just listento the language there, we, we,
we, it's all about me, it's allabout me, this is what I want to
do.
This is what I think.
It's all about me, this is whatI want to do.
This is what I think, and Ithink the change that has not
(33:19):
happened in companies who arestruggling or plateauing is that
that we needs to be changed tothey right.
The takeaway is people need tobe conditioned.
They need to know something andfeel something about you before
they're ever ready to chooseyou.
So let me say that a differentway, that's not correct.
(33:41):
I need to be as creative aspossible and be everywhere they
are so that they choose me.
Like that's what we do.
That is not right.
People need to know somethingand feel something before
they're ready to choose you.
And so the question for all ofus as marketers is like, how do
I most effectively move thesepeople along that development
path of trust toward them beingready to choose me?
(34:02):
And the key is to pointappropriate advertising mediums
at that.
You know, at different stagesof that path, and I think that's
what we all miss.
We start with us.
We don't start with them nearlyenough, even if we say we do
like our actions truly do notstart with them nearly enough
man, I love the psychology.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Thank you so much, rj for for coming on the show.
How do people find out more?
Or or uh reach out to you?
I know that we got a blip.
Billboardscom is, uh, probablylike one of the main ways.
Um, how else might people findout more about what you're all
this psychology that you'retalking about, as well as like
your services, because I'm I'meating it up myself, so yeah,
(34:41):
the website is the main place.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
we have a blog there with some of these psychological
rants, um, and we also will putin in the stuff that we send
out here in conjunction with you, like a landing page connected
to this podcast for anyone whowants to try this as part of
their marketing mix.
Right, we'll, you know.
Offersblitbillboardscom forwardslash podcast.
(35:06):
Come and create a campaign andwe'll match your spend 25% to
get you started.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Well, everyone, I'll put those links in the show
notes.
If you want to create your ownPSYOP um, psyop, uh, in the
space, um, definitely reach outto to RJ.
Um, thank you so much forcoming on.
If anybody really enjoyed this,please share it.
Um, please follow, pleasesubscribe.
Uh, leave a review.
All that interaction helps.
(35:34):
Even leave a little emoji, um,or something like that.
Uh, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening.
And if you want to grow yourbusiness with the largest, most
powerful tool on the planet, theinternet, reach out to EWR
Digital for more revenue in yourbusiness.
And until the next time, myname is Matt Bertram.
(35:54):
Bye-bye for now.
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host, matt Bertram.
For those of you watching,matthewbertramcom is what I'll
get launched next year as far asthe coaching program going, and
also I'm going to be havingsome new handles come out.
Any of you watching still seethe old podcast cover.
(00:36):
So we do have a new podcastcover, so be looking out for
that.
I didn't really want my face sobig on it, but it is on there.
Look for internet marketingreal big if you're looking for
it or if you haven't beenlistening in a while.
But we're going to be rock androlling next year.
We're going to have a lot ofstuff going, if you see it.
(01:02):
InternetmarketingsecretscomInternet Marketing Secrets
hashtag is where we're going tobe found starting next year.
Got a great guest for you todayto continue the conversation on
the degradation of and changesin click volume online.
How you have to be other places.
I got RJ Schultz with me herefrom Blip Billboards.
(01:23):
Hey RJ, how are you doing buddy?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Doing well, Matt.
It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, one of the things that we were talking
about was that rule that Googlecame out with the 7-11-4 rule.
Right, and really anybodythat's been in digital marketing
for a while knows you knowseven times people got to hear
your information.
I think with the proliferationof ads everywhere, uh, that
(01:47):
number's probably gone up quitea bit.
Um, actually 11,.
So sorry, 11, but seven hours,and I've talked about that a lot
on this podcast and that's whyI really believe in long form
content.
Um, is someone's got to consumeseven hours of your content,
okay, to to actually know, likeand trust and do business with
you, and one of the best ways toreach somebody doing that is
(02:09):
through podcasting or long formcontent.
But tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
I love what your company'sdoing, I love how you're
disrupting the space and we canstart the conversation maybe
with the 7-11-4 rule, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, 7-11-4, I think it's the evolution of what we
all heard growing up.
Going to school People need tosee you a bunch of times seven
or eight times before they'reready to decide to choose you.
Google put some research intothis a year and a half ago and
published what they call 7-11-4.
Year and a half ago, andpublished what they call 7-11-4.
(02:47):
And seven hours.
Like you mentioned, 11interactions across those seven
hours, and most effective whenthose interactions happen across
four different platforms.
And so that's really what we atBlip have been teaching our
clients or our users toimplement in their full funnel
marketing.
It's like you've got to get towhere your target audience is
and be part of their daily life.
(03:08):
You need to be giving themcontent that helps them feel
better at their jobs, andconnecting 11 times over seven
hours in four different places,and we found that, as we took
that approach, like we juststarted to see all the key
metrics.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, I mean that speaks so much to what we've
been also doing internally, likeso we've known right that you
know 7-11 touch points, like Ithink, 11.
Yeah, that's about the rightnumber.
I think it's maybe even alittle bit higher.
The seven hours we've beentalking about that.
I put that in my book, likeyears ago Build your Brand Mania
how do you reach that?
(03:45):
What's the most effective wayto reach that number?
Even in no like trust, I talkabout that.
The four different channels.
That's something we've seen.
We've seen AdWords not workvery effectively.
I think it's oversaturated,especially since COVID.
We've pushed people out to Bing, duckduckgo, which is pretty
easy.
You got AI and AI chathappening, but we've really
(04:10):
pushed out our clients to runbranded campaigns, visibility
campaigns on multiple channelsand kind of spraying that out,
kind of blue ocean strategystrategy.
We're seeing that too.
When people are hearing you onmultiple channels, that comes
together.
So this study I'm going to putthat link in the show notes for
everybody too, because we followthe EAT metric as well that
(04:33):
Google put out there theexpertise, authority, trust.
They add the experiencecomponent to that, and so I just
love that.
Tell me a little bit about yourbackground.
I know we were talking aboutsome veteran stuff before this
as well.
How did you come to thisevolution with Lip?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Great question, man.
I am absolutely a businesstransplant.
I never thought that I'd bestarting companies or running
companies or working incompanies at all.
I spent the first part of myprofessional life in the
government and I thought thatthat might be where I spend my
whole life.
So I went to undergrad andstudied aeronautical science
(05:14):
concurrently, got a pilot'slicense and then joined out of
school.
I joined an intelligenceprogram that was affiliated with
the Army the US Army and wentstraight into three years of
training and so for three years,like I was absent and I emerged
26, 27 years old, still neverhaving even worked a real job
you know what I mean Just so farfrom the wisdom of the world,
(05:37):
so to speak and went operationaland had a lot of fun.
I got to see some of the worldthat I wouldn't have seen
otherwise, and even over thepast couple of years it's been
cool to see some of those sameplaces but through a different
lens, like as a tourist or, youknow, for this type of work.
And it's been a lot of fun.
But I started having kids anddecided that that is not where I
(05:59):
wanted to be long term.
In fact, when my first son wasthree, I was home.
I was gone a lot, but I washome and we were playing like
cars on the floor.
He's like, dad, this is fun.
And I'm like, yeah, buddy, Ithink so too, man, this is great
.
And he's like next time I wantto do it at your house.
I was like, oh man, like my sondoesn't even think I live here,
(06:20):
you know what I mean.
And so that that truly was theimpetus for me to start looking
beyond government work and Ijust went straight to, like the
Google search bar and I was likewhat's next?
What can I do?
What do people who leave thisline of work end up pursuing?
And I settled on businessschool and so went to business
school and during businessschool well, actually in the
(06:43):
government I applied to aprogram called, like McKinsey
and Companies Emerging Scholarsand I became a semi-finalist
there and so got onto campus andcontinued into those activities
and thought like, yeah, this isgoing to be great Once I get
there.
I'm like this is not going tobe great.
This is absolutely not what Iwant to do.
Like no way, this is justanother place to.
(07:04):
Well, I mean, I won't disparagethat publicly, because it's a
fantastic route.
You know consulting is afantastic route, but I really
got.
I became enamored with the ideaof starting and working on new
ventures through some classes Iwas taking, and so after that I
went after school, I went toAmazon in Seattle and worked on
(07:28):
an emerging markets team, andthat fed the beast a little bit
more.
And after a year or so, many ofus were looking around thinking
like why are we, why are wedoing this for someone else,
like let's go do this ourselves.
And so I left Amazon for ayounger company.
I think I arrived at theirSeries B.
So it was another educationalcouple of years for me to see a
(07:50):
company grow from $20 million to$100 million plus.
And I left that for Blip, whichwas even smaller, way smaller.
And so that's been theevolution of things, and it's
been a fun ride, that is forsure.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So so, to just educate everybody which I it was
new to me as well.
So so, blip is digitalbillboards where you can
basically buy at certain times,like just fractionally, right,
it's kind of like a fractional,like Uber of billboards, right,
like?
Tell me a little bit about it.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, and when I hear digital billboards and when you
guys hear digital billboards,you're probably thinking the
same thing.
I thought when this jobopportunity like came up, I'm
like billboards, like where'sthe time machine to take me back
to the 50s, like I do not wantto spend my career around this
medium.
But you're right, it's an uberstyle marketplace, right, and so
it's best understood.
Using uber as a proxy you got,uber is a scheduling algorithm.
It's an Uber-style marketplace,right, and so it's best
(08:43):
understood.
Using Uber as a proxy You'vegot Uber as a scheduling
algorithm.
It's a piece of technology in atwo-sided marketplace.
It sits between car owners andcar riders, but Uber does not
ride, they do not own cars.
We're the same.
We're a scheduling algorithmthat sits between board owners,
billboards, car toppers, wallscapes, whatever and people who
advertise.
And we don't own billboards andwe don't advertise.
(09:05):
We just connect the two throughan open exchange.
So the value proposition is youknow, with Uber you can get a
$15 ride from the airportinstead of a $50,000 car that
you're now stuck with.
With us, you can pay whateveryou want to pay for a week
advertising in Times Squareinstead of figuring out who owns
that board and then going on toa multi-year contract and
spending millions of dollars toget into Times Square.
(09:27):
So it's a lot more control withthe spend that you have and the
big value is it allows us SMBsto play in out of home, because
before we don't have the runway,the purse, the budget to accept
these big contracts as part ofour marketing expense.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well, yeah, we were talking about like conferences,
right, like all the differentbillboards when you, when
someone gets off a plane, off oflike certain routes, right,
like to be so nimble to be ableto be at the right time to reach
the right people when you havethe density that you're looking
for, or different kinds ofevents.
I mean, is it tell me a littlebit about like use cases as well
(10:04):
as like, is it a a bid auction?
Like how, how does it work?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, so it's the second place bid auction.
Use cases are reallyinteresting Interesting for us
in particular because it's notsomething that we went out and
championed.
We just kind of put our headsdown, built, went to work and
then came up for air and startedto look at the customer data to
tell us what people were doingwith it and it's like, oh my
gosh, that's kind of cool.
So you have everything from aproud parent who wants to tell
(10:30):
the small town they live in thattheir son or daughter just
graduated high school andthey'll leave that up for a week
.
We've got an interesting usecase is musicians, mainly
rappers.
You know they'll plot theirtour locations, their tour map,
and then they'll buy upbillboards in those cities a
month prior and they'll justpepper their tour path for
(10:52):
ticket sales.
Right, and, like you mentioned,it gives them that control,
that geo control over locations,which is something people find
a lot of value in and we seeused pretty widely.
You got use cases like that allthe way up to um.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
you know berkshire hathaway and you know keller
williams, these big real estategroups who have multiple
locations all over and need toshift focus from one place to
the other for whatever reason,and amazon prime that spends a
ton of money um so well, I meanI just like the democratization,
okay, of of now you have thesemedia channels that you can
(11:29):
reach people, that before youmight have to have a huge budget
to be able to do it, and, uh,huge relationships, huge
contracts to reach these people.
I mean they're they're openingup um disney plus and amazon and
netflix, all these bid auctionplaces, right, so you can build
a strategy where you're hittingthose multiple touch points and
(11:50):
staying in front of people.
I think that digital billboardsa lot of times when I think
about it, I think about like,well, that's what display ads
are, right, like digitalbillboards chasing around on
your phone.
You're talking about digitalbillboards, like on billboards,
like out there, like anythingthat's digital, that you see it
changing.
Yeah, how, how do you connectthat whole network?
Right, so that that's whatyou're doing.
You're bringing that togetherand collecting that inventory.
(12:14):
I think it's just a phenomenalway to get more reach.
I mean the world today, witheven social media and how TikTok
changed the algorithm.
I mean one post, you can reachmillions of people, right, you
can.
A post in Reddit is bigger thana traditional press release.
Right Now you're able toincorporate that traditional
like if they're not on theirphone they're walking around
(12:34):
looking at something, and themore digital billboards there
are, the more you can kind ofbuild out what that experience
is right.
And so I think that there's alot, there's gonna be a lot of
evolution of this, of even likeVR and like everything
connecting, I guess, and howaugmented reality that's where I
(12:56):
was going, sorry, I was like VRis like really augmented
reality and Google Glasses andlike how everything's gonna be
an experience and even like whatI'm seeing in the art is
digital billboards.
Big digital billboards are partof it all, and if you have
access to reach people in thatway and you need to touch them
on multiple touch pointsmultiple times, like this should
(13:17):
be a tool in everyone's arsenalis really the way I thought
about it.
And when I saw what you weredoing and military background
and everything, I was like let'stalk, like tell me more about
it.
I mean what?
Can you share any interestinginsights into some of the data?
Maybe expound upon the 7-Eleven4 rule with Google, like how
(13:40):
are you seeing it pulled throughand how are you seeing people
use maybe multimedia like, ordifferent channels, what's their
marketing mix and how they'reincorporating this into it?
I just really wanna hear kindof use cases, because I just
think it's super fascinatingLike smart marketing, right,
like let's talk about smartmarketing, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Absolutely.
I think the message, you knowthe answer to all that is a few
fold, and then I'll break thesedown.
It's like people need to beconditioned before they're ready
to choose you.
They need to know something andthey need to feel something,
and those somethings are prettydefined by the interested
(14:20):
parties, right?
So people need to knowsomething, they need to feel
something, and the question fora marketer whose job is to drive
demand is like, how do I mosteffectively move a person from
unaware along that path toknowing something and feeling
something such that they'reready to purchase?
And I think the key is to pointappropriate advertising mediums
(14:42):
at them, depending on wherethey are along that 7-11-4, you
know pathway or journey to you,right?
And so that's what I think itis and that's what we call smart
marketing.
Right?
What's the most efficient andeffective way to condition your
audience or to develop youraudience, to get what's called
qualified impressions?
And we push that smartmarketing centers on this
(15:06):
concept of qualified impressions.
Qi.
This is something.
It's a proprietary term.
It's something that we've beenusing internally, because one
thing we struggled with early onwas convincing people to choose
billboards as part of their mix.
The first objection is like no,I don't want to use billboards,
I'm already using this.
And we're always like we're notasking you to stop using that
and start using billboards,we're asking you to make more
(15:30):
effective or more efficient atthe top of your funnel.
To make more effective or moreefficient at the top of your
funnel.
My favorite study ever and Ihave to say I cannot find it
anywhere on the internet anymoreLike in 2020, I took some
absent time.
I'm still affiliated with thegovernment and like a I own you
reserve capacity type thing.
So in 2020, I spent like ninemonths in Syria and when I came
(15:52):
back, like this thing was gone.
I could not find it anywhere.
But before I left, I was justchampioning this thing and I
remember the details well.
So McDonald's launched a menuitem in five cities.
These were DMAs like Dallas,oklahoma City, that type of
thing.
They launched a menu item infive cities.
In all five cities, they didsix weeks of Facebook
advertising.
In four of the five cities theylayered billboards on top of
(16:16):
the Facebook for the same period, same six weeks, and those four
cities combined to outperformin sales the control city by
729%.
And that's the message we have.
Right, utilize the full funnelmarketing approach so that you
can create those meaningfultouch points for your target
(16:39):
audience.
Because, like you mentioneddegradation, like digital
marketing, nothing I say isabsolute right.
Digital marketing in some waysis becoming degradated.
It really is because you showan ad to someone five times, it
doesn't know who you are yet andyou're trying to develop them
along that path of seven hoursand 11 touch points and four
(17:03):
different platforms.
Well, if they don't know whoyou are yet and they swipe your
ad away or they spend no timewith it, they don't engage with
it the algorithm is not likelyto show it to that person again.
So you are just wasting money,and a lot of times at a very
high CPM $14 to $18 on Facebook,for example to no avail, right.
And so, like, the whole messageis use the full funnel.
(17:25):
I'm super interested in and wehave a couple of professors at a
few local universities, brighamYoung University being the main
one in Utah researching thisfor us Because it's like why did
those four cities outperformthe control city by 729%?
And I am super interested inthat because it brings into
(17:45):
question the psychology ofsurvival, which deals a lot with
my background and essentiallywhat we're saying there is when
you are served an ad on yourphone and you're like on the
toilet or you're playing chessor you're scrolling Instagram or
whatever you do on your phone,you're not in shot mode and you
swipe that away.
And very rarely do you tune inand like give it an honest look.
(18:09):
But when you're confronted by abillboard for eight seconds,
like it's forever and that wasonly two seconds, right?
You're forced to psychologicallyingest colors, logos, maybe a
couple of words, even if you'redriving in a daze, right, you're
forced to psychologicallyingest those things.
So the next time it surfaces onyour phone, at the subconscious
(18:29):
level, your fight or flightkicks in and says like, hey,
matt, where you recognize thesecolors, this logo, this word,
they're in the database.
Do we need to dwell an extrasecond to see if it's a benefit
or a threat?
And the answer isphysiologically yes, right.
And so that's thedifferentiator, right there.
And that's the importance ofmatching this medium out of home
(18:51):
to everything else you're doingdown funnel, matching this
medium out of home to everythingelse you're doing down.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Funnel Dude, rj.
This is just super interesting.
Like I love the psychology talkof of the marketing component
of it.
I, I'm, I'm really fascinated.
I, I, I would love to, when youfind that study, send that
through, or even the researchthat you find, because I'm, I'm,
you know.
Here's what I can tell you.
I've run a lot of campaigns.
The pushback I get isattribution right, like you know
, like how do I?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
convert.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I'm spending money on this.
I got you know CMOs, I got youknow business owners.
Hey, like I'm spending money onthis, like I want to know where
that conversion is right andwe're a big search marketing
company and and Google is kindof like today is where people
(19:40):
are going through somevalidation, but it they gets the
attribution a lot because it'sthe last click okay, it's not
the first click.
That starts on social media,that starts on billboards, that
starts somewhere else that thedemand gets created.
Right, and what I've seen on alot of campaigns is like radio
I've done a lot of radio stuffright, whether it be streaming
radio, whether it be terrestrialradio, um, and and we see brand
lift like heavy right, peopleare searching for the name.
(20:03):
Google likes that right, theywant to work with brands, they
want to.
There's a trust factorassociated with that.
I like this fight or flightinstinct.
I have not gone down thatrabbit hole enough and I would
love to expand upon that and inour conversation.
If you have more to add to that, I I can just tell you, I, when
I look at, I look at themarketing channels we put
(20:25):
together.
What is the end goal?
That I mean the attribution.
It just should be like okay,like an average way to cross
them all, whatever.
But what is the result of whatit's pushing, um, whether it be
like you know, influence, um,whether it be like the bottom
line sales, whatever it have youlike, all of these things
combined give you a multipliereffect and, and I like that,
(20:46):
that you have to be confrontedwith something before you make a
decision.
I think that there's a trustcomponent to that.
When you see something on abillboard like, there's
established like a feeling oflike permanence right, that's a
legit company that's up on thatbillboard.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
mean.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
With ads.
You can just see ads and Ithink to your point too, you can
run that ad and hit that sameperson over and over again and
they're just going to keepswiping away that this is not
interesting to me.
So you have to hit them at adifferent vertical, a different
angle, with a different messageto, to, to try to get it into
their subconscious to actuallylike you know.
That's why the taglines are soimportant to get them to
(21:26):
actually open it, open the ad oror read beyond that, because
they're hit with so much and andand.
That's kind of what I uh gutlythink some of it is is like man,
there's some permanenceassociated with this, um, you
know the like that that messagemight be a little bit different,
um, but it approaches and hitsthem, like you said, at a
different time of what they'redoing.
(21:47):
That that puts it in there Someconscious, in a different way,
like.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, phenomenal.
I mean to anyone listeningtoday.
You don't say it out loud inyour car or whatever, but like
what do you read on aChick-fil-A billboard?
You know, right, eat morechicken.
It's like the quintessentialbillboard campaign that does
exactly what you're talkingabout, hits them from a
different angle, stays in theirmind, stays in their mind.
It's very authoritative, it'svery consistent and it's very
(22:12):
trustworthy.
But you know, billboards arejust that and not to mention,
relatively cheap, right, and youknow if you broke down what the
, what smart marketing lookslike.
It's like you think about thispathway with seven steps or 11
steps that people need to tostand on at one point in time to
(22:32):
start building trust with you.
It's like, how do you deliverthose 11 meaningful touch points
across this journey from whenthey don't know you to them?
You know being ready to buy andbillboards have their place,
right?
It's not just do billboardsuntil they see you 11 times.
It's like use out of home forawareness, maybe those first two
, three, four impressions.
Because's accessible, it'sefficient and it's authoritative
(22:56):
, right?
One thing we worry about withdigital advertising Facebook
meta, for example is like areour ads being served to people
or to bot accounts?
Because that's an expensivething to just deal with, right.
But with billboards, you can besure that it's an actual set of
eyes that's seeing that ad,right.
So, first couple of impressions, billboards.
Next couple of impressionsmaybe three, four, five, six,
(23:18):
seven.
Keep the billboards going andthen start to mix in some of
your own content, the stuff thatyou're doing online podcasts,
things like that so that whenpeople listen to a podcast or
they're fed an online ad, theycan start to make the
(23:38):
connections with the things thatthey're seeing out on the
freeway and out in the city,things like that.
And then, once you're sure thata large percentage, large
enough percentage, of some areahas seen your ad six, seven
times, yeah, be okay, layeringin that expensive one-to-one
digital call to action with ameta ad or the like.
And so that's where we've triedto play in the last year and
that's what we're rolling out.
(23:59):
What we've rolled out about sixmonths ago is there are multiple
brains at the decision table inany company, right, and one
half of the table is likeperformance marketing,
attribution.
I need to know how many dollarswe're putting in and how many
dollars we're getting out, andthat's a hard thing to prove
with brand marketing with brandadvertising right, and you'll
(24:22):
see a lot of companies plateau.
They'll stall because thatmentality will prevail.
It'll win the day and they'llpump more money into paid ads
and they'll do things they can,they can track, because they
want to show each other andthey're bored like.
This is our growth.
You know what I mean.
But you got brands that havefigured it out liquid death
locally kizik.
You know some of these brandsthat everyone knows about um,
(24:43):
because they're such good brandmarketers, and so we've tried to
determine how can we speak toboth heads so that they can
believe they can agree onsomething at that decision table
.
And that's where we came upwith what we call QI qualified
impressions.
It's going to be a disservice toforce your marketers to try and
(25:03):
bring you know one-to-oneattribution to a billboard,
right.
But what we can do withgovernment data, with GeoPath
and all this stuff we know aboutour demographics and our cities
in the United States.
We can do with government data,with geopath and all this stuff
we know about our demographicsin our cities in the united
states.
We can run a statistical modelthat will say, with a relative
degree of certainty this is howmany people have seen your ad x
(25:24):
number of times, based on thelength of time your ad has been
up, how many times you show itlike, how much.
You know how many boards arethe same area, stuff like that,
and so you can buy say a, amillion impressions from a
billboard company and they'llsay, hey, yep, this has been
seen a million times.
Here's the proof that it's upon that board.
And then you're done.
But with us we go two stepsfurther to try and speak to both
(25:47):
of those brains at the strategytable.
Come by the million impressionsand you know, say it's in salt
lake city, that's, that's wherewe're headquartered.
So I use that as an example.
Say it's in Salt Lake City.
We'll be able to say, hey, thisis not a million people, this
is two hundred and seventy twothousand people, nine thousand
of whom have seen it one time,eleven thousand of whom have
seen it twice, forty threethousand three times, and so on
(26:08):
and so forth.
And so we can produce thisstatistical like bell curve that
shows, all right, a criticalmass of people in this area have
seen your ad more than fourtimes.
It's time to feel okay,layering on that expensive
digital marketing, becausethey're primed, they know you,
they're ready to go.
And then the third thing we cando in that same scenario for the
(26:29):
same customer is to say, like,when we do have a critical mass
of people who have seen you, youknow, four or five times, we
can help you by retargeting.
So we'll put a geofence througha partner, put a geofence
around either your store or ourboard, and then, anytime they
drive through, we can shoot amobile ad right to their device.
And so this, this is our answer.
(26:50):
This idea of qualifiedimpressions is our answer to
that.
Why can't I, you know, giveproper attribution to billboards
?
Well, like, let's give ussomething we can track and
measure, and that's a qualifiedimpression.
And so I'll end that littlerant with a quick definition of
what a qualified impression is.
And a qualified impression isan impression delivered to
someone who has seen you atleast six times.
(27:12):
If you deliver an impression tosomeone who's seen you once,
twice, three times, four, fiveor six times, or four or five
times, that's a generalimpression.
But the impression becomesqualified once they've seen you
six times, because now you canfeel really good about the trust
that you've started to buildand really good about spending a
little bit more on the digitalfront to convert these customers
no, I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I I mean the data I've seen is like when, anytime
even you're running digital ads,you've got to wait about two
weeks to see any kind of reallike data, like you've got to
hit them a few times to to letit soak into the psyche.
You know, and one of the thingsthat we we mentioned previously
that I think is worth bringingup and I think this is a great
time for the call, at least inin my journey.
You know everything's.
(27:54):
It's interesting becausecertain people are brought to
you at different times, right,like you think it might be
serendipitous, but there'sprobably like something to that.
But at the conference, theBrighton conference that I was
at, the keynote speakers alltalked about how click volume is
going down and how you need tobuild a brand right and build it
(28:17):
on other people's platforms,how you need to build a brand
right and it's and build it onother people's platforms, build
it everywhere you can, but buildit in the, in the mind right Of
of your target customer.
It doesn't need to be on yournow.
Email does great, okay, emailstill crushes it Okay, and I
think everybody said it wasgoing to die for a long time,
but a lot of people talk abouthey, you got to build it on your
own property.
(28:38):
You never know how these socialmedia platforms are going to
change things.
I mean, they're starting tobecome more like public
utilities to a certain degree,um, and I think that they're
going to be around and like anyof the rules like are probably
good for the whole and youshould navigate around those,
but you should be everywhere,right, you should be everywhere
and you should be building umyour brand in the uh, mind of
the client and and it.
(28:59):
And it shouldn't matter on theclick right, it shouldn't matter
on the attribution, if you knowthat they're seeing it, because
that is the issue.
I mean, there's even companiesout there that their whole job
is they get a percentage of adspend to get out all the bots,
right, and this one company Iwas talking to you had to spend
a million dollars and theycharged 1% of the ad spend to
(29:21):
basically get rid of all thebots.
Well, if you have to spend atleast a million dollars, how
many of those clicks are botsversus?
real image, so, so.
So there's all these differentcomponents in this complex world
on how to reach people, and theright answer is like all of
them, I believe Right.
The right answer is like all ofthem, I believe Right, and this
(29:41):
should be a tool in the toolbelt and it really should be
looking at.
Well, do you have enough budget,one to figure out how many
channels you need to be on?
Like, maybe talk to me a littlebit about, for let's talk about
a smaller company and a biggercompany, maybe like, or give me
like, a couple of scenarios howthey might incorporate this is
that add on strategy, right,like, not the sole strategy, but
an add-on strategy to whatthey're doing digitally to
(30:02):
expand their reach, to expand,um, you know, uh, uh, the
customer base.
Um, I, I've even seen data forsome different kind of platforms
and different kind of things.
Some of these people, like youmight not, you might be able to
reach people on a billboard thataren't on social media, right,
like, there's probably a dataset of people that are not on
(30:23):
some of these social mediachannels.
That well, you're reaching themin the physical world, right,
and so just kind of curious howyou would structure something
like that for big and smallcompanies.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, good question.
A lot of caveats here.
So I'll start out by saying,like, everything I would
recommend doing starts with whoyou're targeting, right.
So really, really in-depthunderstanding of where your ICP
lives.
You know where they work, whatthey do, their hopes and dreams
all that because your company,your brand, needs to become part
(30:56):
of that world for them, Right.
And so if in that research, youfind that your ICP spends time
on the road, spends timedowntown or stuff like that,
then billboards are anappropriate medium for you to
add into the mix at the right,at the right time, Right.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Their target persona.
You got to know your targetpersona and a lot of people just
start marketing without eventhinking through all that stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
That is super critical.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, absolutely so in terms of spend, for, like a
small company, we tell this topeople all the time, like very,
very bluntly up front, becausethe last thing we want is for
someone to try us for a monthand be like nothing happened.
Well, I can tell you right nownothing is going to happen in a
month.
Right, you need to think about90 days because you're
saturating an area so thatpeople see you multiple times.
(31:43):
Right, you're trying to havethat eat more chicken effect in
one particular area so thatpeople can just recall the taste
of your product or the feelingthey get when they use it or eat
it or whatever it is.
That that's what you're tryingto affect, the type of change
you're trying to affect.
Right, and so 90 days typically,pretty, typically pretty safe
window and depending on the sizeof the city, like Salt Lake,
(32:05):
for example, it needs to bebetween $3,000 and $5,000.
That will get you 60% of thepopulation in these DNAs,
roughly 60% of the population tosee you six times, and so
that's just general rule ofthumb.
But we have tools.
You give us your ICP, you tellus where you live and where you
want to target and we'll run itthrough the tool, but generally
(32:26):
it's like 3 to 5K a month for 90days and you'll start seeing
results.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Awesome, so I think this should be a tool in
everyone's tool belt.
I really thought what you'redoing is fascinating.
One stool belt.
I really thought what you'redoing is fascinating, so I'm so
glad I had you on and couldshare you with the audience.
Before we go like what is oneunknown secret of internet
marketing that you might nothave shared, or if you want to
repackage it in a different way,just say if someone is, like
(32:52):
you know, wanting to takesomething away, what's the one
biggest takeaway?
I guess.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And I did share a little bit of this, so let me
try and repackage it.
But I think it's widelyoverlooked that even when we say
we want to be the most creativecompany, we want to be in
people's minds Like just listento the language there, we, we,
we, it's all about me, it's allabout me, this is what I want to
do.
This is what I think.
It's all about me, this is whatI want to do.
This is what I think, and Ithink the change that has not
(33:19):
happened in companies who arestruggling or plateauing is that
that we needs to be changed tothey right.
The takeaway is people need tobe conditioned.
They need to know something andfeel something about you before
they're ever ready to chooseyou.
So let me say that a differentway, that's not correct.
(33:41):
I need to be as creative aspossible and be everywhere they
are so that they choose me.
Like that's what we do.
That is not right.
People need to know somethingand feel something before
they're ready to choose you.
And so the question for all ofus as marketers is like, how do
I most effectively move thesepeople along that development
path of trust toward them beingready to choose me?
(34:02):
And the key is to pointappropriate advertising mediums
at that.
You know, at different stagesof that path, and I think that's
what we all miss.
We start with us.
We don't start with them nearlyenough, even if we say we do
like our actions truly do notstart with them nearly enough
man, I love the psychology.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Thank you so much, rj for for coming on the show.
How do people find out more?
Or or uh reach out to you?
I know that we got a blip.
Billboardscom is, uh, probablylike one of the main ways.
Um, how else might people findout more about what you're all
this psychology that you'retalking about, as well as like
your services, because I'm I'meating it up myself, so yeah,
(34:41):
the website is the main place.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
we have a blog there with some of these psychological
rants, um, and we also will putin in the stuff that we send
out here in conjunction with you, like a landing page connected
to this podcast for anyone whowants to try this as part of
their marketing mix.
Right, we'll, you know.
Offersblitbillboardscom forwardslash podcast.
(35:06):
Come and create a campaign andwe'll match your spend 25% to
get you started.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Well, everyone, I'll put those links in the show
notes.
If you want to create your ownPSYOP um, psyop, uh, in the
space, um, definitely reach outto to RJ.
Um, thank you so much forcoming on.
If anybody really enjoyed this,please share it.
Um, please follow, pleasesubscribe.
Uh, leave a review.
All that interaction helps.
(35:34):
Even leave a little emoji, um,or something like that.
Uh, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening.
And if you want to grow yourbusiness with the largest, most
powerful tool on the planet, theinternet, reach out to EWR
Digital for more revenue in yourbusiness.
And until the next time, myname is Matt Bertram.
(35:54):
Bye-bye for now.
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