February 12, 2025 • 37 mins
Unlock the secrets of email marketing success with Jason Wright from Internationally Inspirely. Our episode dives into the vital role of email marketing in today's digital landscape, showing how it remains an essential tool for building connections and converting leads. We discuss misconceptions about email's effectiveness, strategies for authentic communication, the importance of deliverability, and tips for choosing the right marketing partners.
• Debunking the myth that email marketing is dead
• The critical role of email deliverability and DNS records
• Strategies for nurturing client relationships through email
• Emphasizing authenticity in email communications
• Comparing ActiveCampaign and GoHighLevel for email marketing tools
• The significance of integrating paid ads into the overall strategy
• Guidelines for evaluating potential email marketing partners
• Understanding the importance of sequencing in email outreach
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The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing podcast is a podcast hosted by Internet marketing expert Matthew Bertram. The show provides insights and advice on digital marketing, SEO, and online business.
Topics covered include keyword research, content optimization, link building, local SEO, and more. The show also features interviews with industry leaders and experts who share their experiences and tips.
Additionally, Matt shares his own experiences and strategies, as well as his own successes and failures, to help listeners learn from his experiences and apply the same principles to their businesses. The show is designed to help entrepreneurs and business owners become successful online and get the most out of their digital marketing efforts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
For any of you that arewatching, I'm at the office.
My internet just went downright before this, so I'm a
little disheveled, but I have agreat podcast guest for you
today.
Really, one of the things thatI've been talking about and
we've been working on internallyis email marketing and how
important newsletters are.
(00:34):
And if you think that email'slost its luster, I have news for
you.
At Brighton, SEO Ma spokeemails still convert the best,
and so I thought it'd be greatto bring on a guest that
specializes in okay, yes, gohigh levels hot right now, but
go high level also activecampaign.
That's actually what we useinternally.
(00:56):
Email marketing is not dead andI can tell you let's get into a
little bit more in this podcast,Just to let you know.
I can tell you, let's get intoa little bit more in this
podcast.
Just to let you know, coachingcourse is live at
MatthewBertramcom.
Go, check it out.
If you get any value from thispodcast, please share, like,
follow, whatever.
We appreciate the engagement.
(01:16):
I am stepping out of the agencyas much as I can every month
because we have a team that cando it all.
So I will be doing moretrainings and more content, so
hit me up.
I want to now introduce JasonWright.
Jason, how are you doing,brother?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm doing great man.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, so Jason's with internationallyinspirelycom
they do.
They focus on automatedmarketing, they focus on paid
ads.
You know just really what wewere talking about in the kind
of pre-interview and we can justpick up our conversation, jason
, of like there's a lot ofpeople out there that claim to
be internet marketing expertsand I can tell you that one of
(02:03):
the biggest challenges we dealwith when we're interacting with
new clients they've been burnedby somebody in the past, right,
so they have this baggage thatthey're coming with and they're
like, hey, either it didn't workfor me or man, like I just
can't trust anybody.
How do I find the right personto trust?
And so you know, I just wantedto kind of start it off there
what are your thoughts aroundkind of like email automation in
(02:25):
general?
Let's just kind of go thereLike has it died?
And then we can get into maybehow to select the right vendor
and we can maybe talk about somecase studies and some of the
things that you've seen reallyleverage email marketing to
convert clients and customers.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, I appreciate the intro.
So when I started my company 10years ago, people were saying
email was dead then.
So I think it's an excusepeople throw out there so it
makes them feel better about notdoing anything with it.
But it's certainly not dead.
It works really well.
I've generated millions ofdollars online with email
marketing so it definitely works.
(03:02):
And I think one of the biggestproblems with it is people build
up this idea in their head ofwhat it needs to be.
And the number one thing thatpeople focus on too much is the
design.
The design doesn't matter atall.
No one's going to remember whatit looked like an hour from the
time they read it.
And the reason why is all of usget inundated with outbound all
day, every day and every pieceof our life, so they will
(03:25):
remember they heard from you.
They're not going to rememberwhat pictures or what colors you
use.
Nobody cares so, and that's notmeant to be negative.
It's just meant to say hey,stop making up excuses, we're
not doing it, just do it.
It's not hard, it doesn'trequire anything crazy.
So one thing that has changedwith email marketing is dns
(03:46):
records used to be the exception.
Now it's definitely the rule.
So email deliverability hasbecome more challenging, but
it's not challenging.
Right, there's, there's thingsyou need to do with some of your
dns records.
All the big providers tell youwhat to do and if you do that,
you'll hit more inboxes, and ifyou don't, you shouldn't even
waste your time trying to emailmarket because you're it's just
not going to work out well.
But you shouldn't even wasteyour time trying to email market
because it's just not going towork out well.
(04:07):
But email marketing is kind ofthe foundation of what we build
our business on.
I also really like textmarketing, I think text
marketing is even more effective.
You get higher engagement.
Simple, but with all thesethings, man, you're basically
starting new conversations andkeeping them going Same thing we
do in real life.
So that is the simplest waythat I can break it down.
(04:29):
And really you're emailing fortwo reasons from a really high
level.
One you're emailing to getpeople on a call and I'm just
focused on high ticket servicebusinesses, so I think about my
own business.
But you're working to getpeople on a call.
Then, after the call, if theydon't buy the thing that you
offered, you're emailing themagain to nurture them and keep
(04:51):
the conversation going.
So if you think about that inyour business, you can see, by
removing that, you're reallymissing out on a lot of
opportunities, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So I want to circle back to something you said
previously that I really want tokey in on, sure.
So I want to circle back tosomething you said previously
that I really want to key in on.
So I was actually on a umRussell Brunson, uh quick
funnels conference, right, anduh, they brought on like
Napoleon Hill or not not, theydidn't bring them on, but they
they showed some videos of himtalking about it and uh, one of
his partners, uh, napoleonHill's partners made so much
(05:22):
money from mindset and he keptsaying do it now, do it now.
And everybody that worked forhim I can forget who it was, but
it was like he said a hundredtimes a day do it now.
And he made everybody thatworked for him say do it now.
And then also there's a bookwritten by uh, I just got back
from podfest.
Um, uh called start ugly, right, and so you just got to get
(05:43):
started, do something, get thatinitial inertia moving, um, and
then you can perfect it.
And and even with podcasting,like people fall off before
seven podcasts, right, like youjust gotta.
You gotta start that processand get moving on that.
And I think email is so critical.
Email is just like an addressthat someone has like for like
(06:04):
mailers that they don't changeemails for like eight years
typically, and if thedeliverability is good and it
doesn't go to like spam, you'regoing to get right in front of
that person that they'rechecking every day.
Now text I think you know 99%like open rate on top of it,
even if it's spam, like why areyou not doing that?
And I, I, I was uh in atraining years ago and it said
(06:26):
what is the relationship youwant to have with your customer,
right?
So is it quarterly, like oh, Iknow who that person is like.
If you send stuff quarterly,you'll probably get put on a
spam list more than if you sendstuff daily because they don't
even know who you are right like.
So it's based on thatrelationship.
So, like you know how close doyou want to be to them?
You know really weekly I thinkis is really good, monthly is
(06:49):
okay you know daily if you'retrying to build that, that that
really close rapport with themlike a best friend or a family
member, like you got to thinkabout all that and you got to
think about a lot of differentthings of how maybe let's talk
about that how would you set uplike a standard campaign for,
you know, I don't knowe-commerce business and then
(07:10):
we'll say, like a servicebusiness or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I mean, there's different pieces of it, right.
So for e-com, a lot of whenpeople are coming in is to get
the 15% off right To hear aboutthe sales or if it's a shopping
cart abandonment type thing.
But the newsletters I like oncea week.
If you're emailing me more thanonce a week I don't want to be
your friend, that's too muchright.
But once a month I'm going toforget about you.
So I think the magic is and itdepends on your personality.
If you're authentically likeevery day feels good, do it Once
(07:34):
a month is not enough.
But somewhere between two tofour times a month is a good
range.
And if you can do twice a monthis a good range.
And if you can do twice a monthfor six months and step it up,
because some people reallystruggle with that commitment,
they make it this really bigdeal and it's not so.
The service-based business iskind of what I said before right
, they could come in through alead magnet or come in through a
(07:55):
program and get some value.
But getting them on thatnewsletter list where they can
kind of see what you're doingand I urge this to people all
the time and I'm not giving anyadvice here or anywhere ever
that I don't follow myself.
It's all based on actualexperience and never theory.
But be yourself, man.
Put your wins and, moreimportantly, your losses out
(08:16):
there, because people don't wantto connect with your brand,
they want to connect withMatthew, they want to connect
with Jason, so put yourself outthere.
Some of the best open rates youwill get on emails or emails
like you're not going to believethis massive failure I had.
People are sick man.
They love that stuff.
So why do you think reality TVis so popular?
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
No, I just I totally agree with you.
I think that really you got tothink about what are you trying
to do with email?
You're trying to connect withsomebody one-to-one.
And if you're always puttingyour best foot forward.
It's like you know everybodycan look good in an interview.
You know what I mean.
Like, people want to know thereal you.
They want that authentic feel.
And also, if you're notpassionate about something or
(08:58):
you're doing something because,oh, I need to do this, because X
, y, Z, but it's not inside you,you're not going to keep it up.
So, speaking to the once a day,like there's, there's things
ritualistically like that, likecertain kinds of news that I
look at, I could easily turnthat into a newsletter and just
share what I'm finding with it.
Right, like, so it's not.
(09:19):
It's not that hard to findsomething if you're passionate
about it, that you have a why toconnect with somebody on how to
do it.
And you know, I think minimumyou have to do it once a month.
Because if you do, if you don'tdo it once a month and you just
start sending emails later,that whole list is dead, I think
, because you're going to get somuch spam off it and and you're
(09:39):
really looking for engagement,right?
So you want to constantly stayin front of them.
Even if they don't even readthe email, they're still seeing
it Like, and I would even saylike on LinkedIn.
Linkedin's got a lot better andit's a LinkedIn's job to filter
out all that spam, becausemarketers, of course, ruin
everything.
But I'm going to tell you, evenif you sent that spam email in
LinkedIn, if those people arelocking into LinkedIn and
(10:00):
they're posting, they're goingto see your name, they're going
to see what you do and they'reposting, they're going to see
your name, they're going to seewhat you do and they're going to
see that headline.
And when I, when I do emailmarketing which was it's like an
add on service for for otherthings that we do Um, I, you
know, if I don't, if I don'tknow what the right thing to do
is, I just use the wholealphabet and I test.
You know, I'll set it up, orI'll set up, like you know, 26
(10:27):
different titles.
You know and and figure outwhat are people responding to,
and then the kind of that's thegreat magic about internet
marketing is you can continue tooptimize based upon data.
You don't have to just guess,like in branding or traditional
marketing.
So I think it's super powerful.
And the email analytics I meanthat, that should that, and SEO.
In my opinion, that and SEO arekind of like the core of your
business, because peoplecontinuously organically find
(10:49):
you at all funnels of thechannel.
And then email should work fromnot just like cold email, but
nurture existing clients,keeping people up to date of
what's going on.
Like email fits in everywhere,just like SEO does.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You said something earlier in the show I wanted to
touch on.
Like email fits in everywhere,just like SEO does.
So you said something earlierin the show I wanted to touch on
.
So you really were talkingabout just get started with
where you are so a phrase we usein our business and that I live
by is good enough to get it outthere, right?
Just before this podcast, Ilaunched a new Facebook ad.
It goes into active campaignand all that exists.
There's a notification.
(11:24):
There's no email.
I'll get to it later today.
I didn't have time to finish it, but at least that damn ad is
out there and approved and I'llget the rest of it built.
I can't tell you the amount ofautomations where people have
hit an email and below it it'sblank.
And I know I have a three-daywait and I haven't even finished
it yet because so many peoplein business this is all parts of
business and in life right, yougot me up in this soapbox now,
(11:46):
so now you got to hear it.
They want to wait till thingsare perfect.
No one cares if it's perfect,and they're not going to know if
it's perfect or not, becausethose are your rules you're
assigning to it, not somebodyelse's.
So if it's perfect and on theshelf, it doesn't have any value
.
It's got to be in the game.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So so, to even pile on more right, a social media
post on average has a four hourlifespan.
Okay and like, even if youstart looking at, like all kinds
of like really interesting data, people are more concerned If
you meet somebody with how theyacted in that scenario, there's
(12:33):
like 20% memory in anything thatyou even did.
So, unless you did somethingthat hit the um, you know really
bad, really good, you blend inthe like, you know you just, you
just blend into the background.
Obscurity is the word I waslooking for, but what I can tell
you is you want to make surewhatever your message is, boom,
you hit that message and thenall all that else that matters
is just that you're availableand you're following up and
you're, you're there, but peoplejust, yeah, I think that
(12:57):
there's, uh, people freeze anddon't execute.
Um, now, certainly, you run anad or something like that and,
uh, the link doesn't work, likeyou want to double check and
make sure, uh, but, but some ofthese platforms will protect you
in that.
But email marketing, that email, you know, is going to be seen
by people for three seconds orseven seconds and then they're
probably not going to see itagain.
(13:18):
And so you know, would yourather create that touch point
or not, right Like, and so yougot to take massive action to uh
change like your trajectory aswell as like where you're
currently at.
Like, and that's what I think alot of people don't understand
is how much action has to betaken to move the needle,
(13:39):
because there's so much noise.
There's something like I don'teven know.
I at one point it was like 800messages a day, but it's gotta
be double that or triple thatnow that we get inundated with
it.
So how do you cut through theclutter?
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Inundated with it, so how doyou cut?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
through the clutter.
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Yeah, that's the key rightthere.
It's just like the weight room.
If you go to the weight roomand have the best workout of
your life once a month, you'renever going to see any change.
It's not going to happen Now.
If you do a C plus workout fivedays a week, you're going to
see a difference in three months, big time.
So it's not my opinion,important than anything.
What's?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
the secret to success .
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Be consistent with something right.
Well, I'm not seeing results.
Do it longer or try somethingdifferent, but nothing good
comes overnight.
Man, the hardest lesson.
I talked to somebody the otherday about this hardest lesson
I've had to learn as anentrepreneur.
I was not a patient person whenI started this business 10
years ago, but what I found isthe timeline is unknown, right
For things to happen click,change, blow up, whatever.
(14:37):
I don't know what it's going tobe, so you keep going until it
happens Like I'm not a I'm goingto try this and go back to
corporate America kind of guy.
I'm not that guy at all.
Last year was actually a very,maybe the hardest year I've ever
had in business Very hard.
My wife at one point was likedo you think you need to go get
a job?
And I said I will never get ajob that pays what I make now.
(14:58):
That's not an option.
Never say that to me again.
Get out of my face.
We're not doing that Right andI'm wired that way.
Most people aren't, but I'mwired that way.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
But let's find a bad offer.
And if you, if you want a 10 toX better return on, like,
create a 10 X better offer,right, and I like the
consistency of the military justreally helps you.
Or having that routine, whetherit's working out or whatever,
getting up to do those things,and you're right.
Like you, you work out forforever.
You don't know when the musclesare going to start showing up,
you don't know when the six packis going to be there, like you
(15:56):
just keep going because you knowyou're doing the right thing
and you're moving in the rightdirection, and certainly some
actions better than no action,because you're definitely going
to be moving towards that goalor away from it.
Now I want to switch gears.
We were talking in thepre-interview about active
campaign, go high level.
So a lot of people that listen,if they're not in digital
marketing, a lot of people thatlisten are in digital marketing.
(16:17):
But there's a lot of kind ofpeople that are taking over
their parents' business or theybought in a business or they're
trying to digitally transformtheir company from the
traditional way to generateleads.
And you got HubSpot advertisingreally strongly.
You got active campaign outthere, you got go high levelaign
out there.
You got GoHighLevel.
Gohighlevel seems to be the hotthing out there.
I remember when GoHighLevellaunched there was no even
(16:40):
manual how to use it.
There was no customer support.
It was really tough, buteverybody that knew how to use
it was just absolutely ravingabout it.
Now I think we've come a longway since then, but maybe you
could kind of set the table asfar as, like I mean infusion
soft.
So on the click funnelsconference they were talking
about confusion soft thatthey're just kind of like
(17:02):
knocking on it, like so like setthe table for like the
different um email marketingtools and maybe what, how you
view what they might be usedbest for, because everybody's
positioned a little differently.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, great, great question.
So go high level.
It's everything ClickFunnelswanted to be initially.
I'm just a straight shooter, sogo high level.
The Calendly feature looksexactly like Calendly they
ripped it off.
The automation builders, likeActiveCampaign, looks a little
older but it's more powerful.
It's an attempt to be anall-in-one tool.
I've never seen an all-in-onetool that I really love for all
(17:35):
reasons.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
But Go High.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Level gives you a lot of potential functionality.
It's very overwhelming for newclients.
There's a big learning curve.
Active Campaign is a competitor.
It is going to be, in myopinion.
I still use it for my business,even though we work in both
with our clients.
Activecampaign is a cleanerinterface, smaller learning
curve.
It's still the king withautomation and CRM.
(17:57):
It just is.
Hubspot's a great one.
Hubspot generally gets veryexpensive, so as people start
building-.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And they lock you in.
They kind of get you indifferent ways and they lock you
in and then you have to do itand I get into people.
I was HubSpot certified.
I get in and I'm like you'redoing an email newsletter once a
month and you're paying forcraziness, you know, yep.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So HubSpot we lose about 10 clients a year to
HubSpot and they're generallymoving up to, you know,
significant revenue and they Ialmost feel like it's a badge of
honor Like people like no, nowI can afford this.
But so you've got thesedifferent tools out there.
Active campaign is not going tobe the tool you want.
Don't forget about MailChimp.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Mailchimp is the one you want to start with right?
Like I don't, I've never reallyused Aweber, but MailChimp I
think is great and you canactually set up multiple
accounts in there and it's ait's an easy to use, fast tool.
Like I said, we useActiveCampaign because I like
kind of building out theworkflow a little bit and the
(18:55):
messaging and the lead scoring.
But I mean you can get startedwith MailChimp in a day.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And the key here is use something.
Use something.
I started with MailChimp yearsand years ago as well, but use
something.
Build a list with a purpose,right?
Nobody cares about yournewsletter.
Nobody cares about your whitepaper or your ebook that
somebody on Fiverr made you,that they've made for 50 other
clients.
Create three videos with two orthree minutes of authentic
(19:22):
screen.
Share value and do somethingdifferent.
Do something your clientsactually care about in your own
style.
There's an idea for a leadmagnet.
Your lead magnets, or youroffer to get a name and email
address, should be worth acouple hundred bucks or more in
perceived value.
Otherwise, nobody cares.
But take advantage of email.
It's a great way to keep intouch with people, in addition
(19:43):
to getting them on your YouTubeor your podcast, whatever else
you got going on.
It doesn't require much effortto be effective.
I cannot tell you the amount ofpeople like well, I'll get that
done later.
Here's the way that I teachfunnels right.
You've got three pieces of afunnel.
The first piece is traffic.
You're getting attention onlineor offline, directing it to a
page online.
The second piece is the frontend.
(20:05):
It's the pages online.
The last piece is the back end.
Everybody wants to do the backend last.
It's really dumb.
You should do it first.
Have a plan.
What happens when people get toyour list?
Then worry about traffic.
Then do your front end.
You can use Facebook lead adforms, conditional logic, make
them very high intent and pushpeople directly into the back
end.
You can do it with high levelor active campaign.
(20:25):
You don't even need a websiteand you can still get qualified
people on your calendar in twoor three days from now and
people want to argue with mewhile I'm generating leads for
myself and my clients doing thatsame thing.
So it doesn't have to be hard.
The hardest part is aconversation you have with
yourself about why you can't doit.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
No for sure.
I mean, I can tell you that ifyou're even skeptical,
calendarly, which is kind of themarket leader right now for
calendars they send you a textmessage or even email if you
verify in to get people to makesure they show up for that
appointment.
If that is turned off, like, Ican see a depreciable amount of
(21:04):
people that show up to meetingsif they're not reminded about it
.
So, even if there's anautomation, that's that simple
to say, hey, you've alreadyagreed to this meeting.
Like, please come to it.
Like the, the show up rates areso much higher, so email has so
many uses and it's like so, sopowerful.
Like, if you're not doing itright, and if you don't, if
(21:25):
you're not generating an emaillist, that's the one thing that
is your asset, right, that thatthat you have, like, certainly
your website.
But to, to, to reach out topeople, to interact with them,
to communicate with them, even.
Um, you know, I need to take myown advice for this podcast,
cause I have a lot of listenersthat I don't know who they are
and I need to have adownloadable, and there I'm
really kind of shifting fromworking in the business to uh,
(21:49):
kind of uh, doing more of uh,the the of the teaching and
stuff like that getting outthere on social media.
Let's talk about that.
So how important like.
So, email is like backbone,right, and you got a website and
you got to email to get peopleto that website.
It's a high converting website,you know.
Okay, it's showing up with SEOin, you know, for the different
(22:09):
keywords, so people areorganically finding you.
So you have a little bit of afunnel going.
Okay, where do you see paid adsfitting in?
Because I think paid ads Istarted in paid ads.
I think paid ads is fantastic,like I think it adds, it's a
compounding kind of effect andso kind of, okay, a lot of
people are running advertisingAlmost anybody I talked to
(22:30):
they're running a bunch ofadvertisers 're spending way too
much money, I think, on onechannel advertising, and I'm
like, spread this thing around.
Let's, like you know, let's hitsome multiple channels here.
Um, is is typically what Iadvise.
I mean, how, how do you seethat?
Like, when someone comes to you, what are the issues that
they're dealing with?
And then, like, what are yourecommending to them?
And then how do you um combineuh paid ads to to the mix?
(22:53):
I just kind of hear yourthoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, I mean it depends what niche they're in.
I mean we work with a lot ofcapital raisers for real estate,
but high ticket serviceproviders are really our broader
niche.
Typically, when people arelooking for more leads, they're
just relying on referrals.
You know they don't have awhole lot going on.
They might be doing someorganic posting to LinkedInin,
but nothing's really happenedfrom it.
So if they have a budget,facebook facebook ads is a
(23:18):
supplement to our.
What they're already doing isgenerally why go first?
It's the quickest way to startshowing them some, some life,
some blood in their business.
Then, obviously, getting thatnurture set up.
What happens after the call issuper important as well, because
not everybody's gonna invest orbuy on the first call.
Most won't unless you have somereally high pressure sales
tactics, which we don't.
So that's really importantDoing something.
(23:42):
I think guesting on podcasts forme has always been more
valuable than hosting my ownshow.
Your show is really successful.
You've been doing it a longtime.
You probably have a differentexperience, but I love getting
on as a guest.
I've been on I don't know 110,115 podcasts now and it's great
getting in front of newaudiences.
It's fun, it's a good use ofyour time.
I like YouTube.
I like getting in front of thecamera and the mic, getting on
(24:03):
stage.
So YouTube's a platform that Ilike to create and totally
unplug.
So I think getting yourself onvideo is huge and a lot of
people don't like it.
But face-to-face is best, butit's not scalable.
Right, it's not scalable, it'sexpensive, it's inconvenient.
But getting on video is hugebecause people can figure out
(24:24):
very quickly, within a fewseconds of watching you speak is
this person full of shit or dothey seem like they're kind of
authentic, they figure out andthey make a lot of decisions
quickly.
So it really can shorten thatno like and trust thing.
So doing stuff with videosGreat, I really like it.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Well, so to speak, out to videos.
I mean, this is, I think, agolden error for for videos,
since, like all the live days,like when, everything was going
live was like awesome.
And then now, now, if you're,you know, if you're a business
like, you're not going to getany visibility unless you pay to
play, which I understand that,and I think that there's value
in kind of giving the searchengines or the different social
media platforms a little bit ofmoney to kind of warm up to you,
(25:02):
and it makes a lot of sense todo that.
But I can tell you right now,posting on TikTok, if it stays
around like it's back and forth,I don't know, youtube Shorts
and Instagram is where it's atto get organic reach, you can
set up like a mini chat whereyou have like a downloadable
text me this send you that Nowyou've got the email address
(25:23):
right, offer organic trafficright and you've given them some
value.
And then you can continue thatconversation because a lot of
people are like well, I don'thave the right lead magnet.
Continue that conversationbecause a lot of people are like
well, I don't have the rightlead magnet.
To your point, if you get theright video of just you
answering a problem of like hey,here are the three things that
I do.
That do whatever and you canspeak to it in your authority on
(25:44):
it.
You put that together with thecall to action.
You can put that on yourwebsite.
It will convert.
You can put that on anewsletter.
You can put that on socialmedia.
You can turn that into a paidad.
So, like, everybody has access.
Now that Zoom is a thing sinceCOVID, right, or whatever.
Whatever you're using GoogleMeets, whatever it is, you know
Microsoft, I'm sorry, so there'sa lot of problems, but and my
(26:06):
mom worked there so I can saythat but I would tell you that
you can get on video and you canrecord video.
There's no excuse to be able todo it.
Like you said, you're just inyour own way.
Figure it out.
What you have value in You're.
You know, know, like and trust.
They pick up so much from youby what you say, right, there's
so many on, you know, on thingsthat are not in the words, right
(26:30):
, so there's things that are notin the words, especially text,
right, things that are not inthe words, right, so there's
things that are not in the words, especially text, right, you
get text confusion all the timeof what's going on.
But if you're an authority,you're an expert, right, and
you're trustworthy.
That's all you need tocommunicate in.
Whatever it is that you'reoffering, put that out there and
put a couple of videos.
The algorithm is going to tellyou if it's good or not, and
(26:53):
then you can pick that up andturn that into an ad.
But, like, you could do thisall in a day and you could start
generating a list.
But I think that, even goingback to the beginning, do it now
.
Do it now like to the beginningof it.
You just gotta.
You gotta take action and, andI think, um, one of the things
that I would love for you tospeak on and we were talking
about this in the pre-interviewis how do you figure out who to
(27:17):
trust, right, because everybodyand their dog can hang a shingle
out and say you know, Iactually wrote so this book.
I'm meeting with a client likeafter this, but I wrote this
book a couple years ago when Ikept seeing like 15-year-old
Instagram, uh, saying they'regoing to help me grow my
business, and I was just like,um, and for anybody that listens
(27:38):
, it's called um how totransform yourself into an
authoritative brand and attractyour uh ideal customers, build
your brand mania.
So that's, that's a book Iwrote about five years ago, but
I literally wrote this bookexplaining my journey and like
how to do it.
Um, so I say I like, just likeyou, I drank my own kool-aid.
But like you're kids, I likehow can you prove to me that you
(28:01):
do it if you're 15?
Like, how are you a a businessconsultant?
Like it's just good and like itwas just it was, it was too
much and so that that that kindof perpetuates is okay.
How do you do email marketingright?
It's not like accounting.
You know what I mean.
Like it's kind of a little bitof an art and there's so many
people out there that say theydo it and look, I call it
(28:22):
kissing frogs.
Honestly is, I've been doingthis long enough.
I have so many different people.
I've used agencies, consultants, people that I've known, hired,
done partnerships with, like Ikind of have a sense of like who
to use or where to go, but forsomebody that's starting out,
it's like I'm running thisbusiness and I need somebody to
email marketing.
Like I can go 50,000 places andget a hundred thousand names of
(28:45):
people that do this.
I mean I can tell you there'slike I don't know how many.
I think there's like 1800something agencies in Houston
Like okay, how do I know whichones are good?
Like I don't know any of thesepeople, right?
So, like, when you're lookingat email marketing, maybe what
are some questions you can askthem or what are some things you
can look for?
Maybe, like I know, the badgesand the certifications are super
helpful as a starting point.
But, like, how would youevaluate an email marketing
(29:07):
person if?
If you were trying to hiresomebody today?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That's a great question.
I mean, like you said,unfortunately age has a piece to
it.
You know, if you're living athome, I don't really want to
hear your life lessons becauseyou've never got out of the
world on your own.
So, finding somebody that'sbeen doing it for a little while
, but getting them on a videocall, get them on a Zoom call,
have a conversation If theyoversell themselves with, the
(29:31):
results are probably full ofshit.
Honestly, we've worked withclose to 700 people in active
campaign in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I jump on a call with people.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's a lot.
It's a lot.
I jump on a call with people, Ifigure out what they're doing,
what they're trying to do, andif it's not a good fit, I want
to say, hey, you know, e-com'snot really our focus.
There's other people that focuson that.
It's not really us.
But let me give you a couple ofpointers to leave you better
than I found you.
While we're on here Off, you goJumping on a Zoom call with them
, asking questions, seeing whatthey are.
(30:03):
When people want me toguarantee stuff, can you
guarantee?
Search it in me.
Have a good day.
I don't want anything to dowith this scenario because we're
just starting and this iscoming off crazy.
You're going to be a nightmaresix months down the road.
I'm going to hate my lifebecause of you.
So I'm going to set you freeand send you on your way.
Brother, I have no problemtelling people that I might have
(30:26):
one of those conversationstoday to be honest with you, so
we'll see how it goes.
I'm a nice guy, but I'm notscared to tell you exactly what
I think.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And especially if it's answering a question.
If you have a question, I'mgoing to give you an answer.
So well, I think you know, seeagain, consulting and giving
people advice on on what to doand how to stay out of the ditch
.
You know, I, I'm happy toprovide that, that direction,
and and I have lots of years ofexperience and lots of campaigns
to be able to say, hey, this iswhat I'm seeing going on and
this is what I really think youshould do, um and and and so.
But I can tell you that the um,the guarantee business, is a
(31:02):
different model, Like like, okay, well, give me, give me a piece
of the revenue, right, like,like what we got to get more
involved, but like out of thegate, like I want we need to
step into this thing, right, andso there, there's a lot of
those kinds of things that Ithink that people if I'm
speaking to the agency ownersout there now and the
(31:23):
freelancers don't pick up thewrong client because, look, I'm
always going.
I want to hit this out of thepark.
I want to get a good review outof this.
I want this client to be myclient long-term, I want to get
referrals out of this.
So I know what my ideal clientis and if it's not, I try to
tell them that and I try todissuade them to say, hey, this
ain't going to work.
Or if it's going to work, weneed to make sure that we build,
(31:44):
because a lot of people knowwhat they want but they don't
have the budget to do it Right.
Worst thing you can do, even ifit's not a bad client, is take
on a client that you know that,that, that, that you're, you're,
(32:04):
whatever you're doing, theydon't have enough horsepower or
fire power to deliver that Right.
Like.
So, if you're brand new productand you're doing cold email
marketing or whatever, um, likeyou got to have enough accounts
going, you got to have enoughemails.
Like, and it's a numbers gameto to to a certain degree, but
like if you're trying to rankfor a very difficult keyword and
you have big competitors, hey,like you're not going to get
there on like a shoe stringbudget.
(32:25):
So it's really about umevaluating, I think, for um, all
the freelancers and agenciesout there, the the the right
client, because that client'sgoing to cost you a ton of money
, and that's how my agency hasbeen able to scale is making
sure we're picking the rightclients and also that goes back
all the way back to emailmarketing is making sure the
(32:46):
hook.
The hook is right, becauseyou're going to, you're going to
see in the leads what the baitis you're putting out like from
a fishing analogy, and if youtweak that, you can get exactly
what you're looking for in theright messaging solving the
right problem and hitting theright people Right.
I think that it's.
You know what?
Is it the right target at theright time with the right
(33:09):
message, or something like that?
Like really is.
I mean, tell me a little bitabout like sequencing and then
we'll start to kind of wrap uphere, getting close to time.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah.
So I mean I always tell peopleit's like any new relationship
in life You're going to talkmore, more often when you first
meet somebody.
And as time goes by it's notnecessary.
Like if my mom, after me beingalive for 43 years now, she
wants to talk every day, I'mgoing to be like mom about once
a week Every day, 43 years now.
If she wants to talk every day,I'm going to be like mom about
once a week every day is kind ofa lot.
(33:39):
I don't have much to say.
I work at home, it's not thatmuch going on.
But if a new neighbor moves innext door at first we're going
to talk often to get to knoweach other.
So it's kind of the same waywith your sequencing you don't
want to be overwhelming, like ifI get on your list and you
(34:00):
making those touch points.
Uh, something I was going tosay just with, like email
structure, what I use.
I love playing to curiosity.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do with subject lines and
even the beginning of emails.
But, um, curiosity to get itopen, a little hook at the
beginning, little storytellingabout our real pain or our real
success or whatever, oneactionable question or thing and
then some kind of a call toaction.
I pretty much do that in everynewsletter and it's very
(34:22):
conversational.
If you read my emails theywould say, man, it sounds
exactly like Jason.
It's because it is right.
I say I speak exactly how Iwrite and vice versa.
And it works well because it'seasy for me to create, it's easy
to consume and it's differentthan everybody else.
So I hope there's value there.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
No, I think that that's great.
I I think that many times I'vetalked to people or message
people and then I've spoken tothem or met them in person,
right and, and they're different, right and, and that's so wild,
and and you would think, youwould think that across all
mediums you want to be the sameperson and be and communicate
(35:01):
that same way.
I've started to do a lot ofemails where I'm just talking,
right, so I'm not typing anymore, I'm just talking, and then
I'll grammar check it orwhatever ever and just very
conversational.
You know, there's, there's aformula 7-11-4 that was put out
by a zero modem, a true study byGoogle that said seven hours of
(35:24):
content.
They got to consume seven hours, whether it's talking to you
live or checking out your stuffor whatever reading your emails.
And you know they see yourmessage 11 times and they need
to see it on four differentchannels.
And if you follow that formula,you're going to, you're going to
and you're targeting the rightpeople.
Good things are going to happen.
Like I don't think there's anyany other way, way around it.
(35:45):
But, man, if they just know whoyou are over over that quote,
unquote, seven hours, they'regoing to know, I can trust you
and they're going to decidewhether to do this with you.
Like you're, you're like astraight up, like you know, no,
no, like right, get right to thepoint.
Kind of a no nonsense kind ofguy.
People are going to listen tothis and go man, that's what I
want.
That's what I want to work with, right Um.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I describe my style as unapologetically authentic.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I like it.
I like it.
Well, hey, we're I.
I want to make sure people knowhow to get in touch with you.
Where are you hanging out?
What are you doing?
I know you got an emailnewsletter.
People have inscribed true,kind of tell, tell, tell
everybody your info.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yep, so company is intentionally inspirationalcom.
So that is also the website youcan go to If you really want to
see Jason unplugged.
More of this, but even a bitmore hardcore.
Our YouTube channel.
We have a playlist called Smoke, flow and Grow and it's turned
into me reviewing a lot ofcigars and hanging out by my
pool and talking a little bitabout business, but it's a great
(36:44):
place to get more of a feel forme, unplugged and, yeah,
intentionallyinspirationalcom.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Love it, jason.
Thank you so much for coming on.
No-transcript.
(37:27):
So that was.
That was pretty cool and untilthe next time, guys.
Bye-bye for now.
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
For any of you that arewatching, I'm at the office.
My internet just went downright before this, so I'm a
little disheveled, but I have agreat podcast guest for you
today.
Really, one of the things thatI've been talking about and
we've been working on internallyis email marketing and how
important newsletters are.
(00:34):
And if you think that email'slost its luster, I have news for
you.
At Brighton, SEO Ma spokeemails still convert the best,
and so I thought it'd be greatto bring on a guest that
specializes in okay, yes, gohigh levels hot right now, but
go high level also activecampaign.
That's actually what we useinternally.
(00:56):
Email marketing is not dead andI can tell you let's get into a
little bit more in this podcast,Just to let you know.
I can tell you, let's get intoa little bit more in this
podcast.
Just to let you know, coachingcourse is live at
MatthewBertramcom.
Go, check it out.
If you get any value from thispodcast, please share, like,
follow, whatever.
We appreciate the engagement.
(01:16):
I am stepping out of the agencyas much as I can every month
because we have a team that cando it all.
So I will be doing moretrainings and more content, so
hit me up.
I want to now introduce JasonWright.
Jason, how are you doing,brother?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm doing great man.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, so Jason's with internationallyinspirelycom
they do.
They focus on automatedmarketing, they focus on paid
ads.
You know just really what wewere talking about in the kind
of pre-interview and we can justpick up our conversation, jason
, of like there's a lot ofpeople out there that claim to
be internet marketing expertsand I can tell you that one of
(02:03):
the biggest challenges we dealwith when we're interacting with
new clients they've been burnedby somebody in the past, right,
so they have this baggage thatthey're coming with and they're
like, hey, either it didn't workfor me or man, like I just
can't trust anybody.
How do I find the right personto trust?
And so you know, I just wantedto kind of start it off there
what are your thoughts aroundkind of like email automation in
(02:25):
general?
Let's just kind of go thereLike has it died?
And then we can get into maybehow to select the right vendor
and we can maybe talk about somecase studies and some of the
things that you've seen reallyleverage email marketing to
convert clients and customers.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, I appreciate the intro.
So when I started my company 10years ago, people were saying
email was dead then.
So I think it's an excusepeople throw out there so it
makes them feel better about notdoing anything with it.
But it's certainly not dead.
It works really well.
I've generated millions ofdollars online with email
marketing so it definitely works.
(03:02):
And I think one of the biggestproblems with it is people build
up this idea in their head ofwhat it needs to be.
And the number one thing thatpeople focus on too much is the
design.
The design doesn't matter atall.
No one's going to remember whatit looked like an hour from the
time they read it.
And the reason why is all of usget inundated with outbound all
day, every day and every pieceof our life, so they will
(03:25):
remember they heard from you.
They're not going to rememberwhat pictures or what colors you
use.
Nobody cares so, and that's notmeant to be negative.
It's just meant to say hey,stop making up excuses, we're
not doing it, just do it.
It's not hard, it doesn'trequire anything crazy.
So one thing that has changedwith email marketing is dns
(03:46):
records used to be the exception.
Now it's definitely the rule.
So email deliverability hasbecome more challenging, but
it's not challenging.
Right, there's, there's thingsyou need to do with some of your
dns records.
All the big providers tell youwhat to do and if you do that,
you'll hit more inboxes, and ifyou don't, you shouldn't even
waste your time trying to emailmarket because you're it's just
not going to work out well.
But you shouldn't even wasteyour time trying to email market
because it's just not going towork out well.
(04:07):
But email marketing is kind ofthe foundation of what we build
our business on.
I also really like textmarketing, I think text
marketing is even more effective.
You get higher engagement.
Simple, but with all thesethings, man, you're basically
starting new conversations andkeeping them going Same thing we
do in real life.
So that is the simplest waythat I can break it down.
(04:29):
And really you're emailing fortwo reasons from a really high
level.
One you're emailing to getpeople on a call and I'm just
focused on high ticket servicebusinesses, so I think about my
own business.
But you're working to getpeople on a call.
Then, after the call, if theydon't buy the thing that you
offered, you're emailing themagain to nurture them and keep
(04:51):
the conversation going.
So if you think about that inyour business, you can see, by
removing that, you're reallymissing out on a lot of
opportunities, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So I want to circle back to something you said
previously that I really want tokey in on, sure.
So I want to circle back tosomething you said previously
that I really want to key in on.
So I was actually on a umRussell Brunson, uh quick
funnels conference, right, anduh, they brought on like
Napoleon Hill or not not, theydidn't bring them on, but they
they showed some videos of himtalking about it and uh, one of
his partners, uh, napoleonHill's partners made so much
(05:22):
money from mindset and he keptsaying do it now, do it now.
And everybody that worked forhim I can forget who it was, but
it was like he said a hundredtimes a day do it now.
And he made everybody thatworked for him say do it now.
And then also there's a bookwritten by uh, I just got back
from podfest.
Um, uh called start ugly, right, and so you just got to get
(05:43):
started, do something, get thatinitial inertia moving, um, and
then you can perfect it.
And and even with podcasting,like people fall off before
seven podcasts, right, like youjust gotta.
You gotta start that processand get moving on that.
And I think email is so critical.
Email is just like an addressthat someone has like for like
(06:04):
mailers that they don't changeemails for like eight years
typically, and if thedeliverability is good and it
doesn't go to like spam, you'regoing to get right in front of
that person that they'rechecking every day.
Now text I think you know 99%like open rate on top of it,
even if it's spam, like why areyou not doing that?
And I, I, I was uh in atraining years ago and it said
(06:26):
what is the relationship youwant to have with your customer,
right?
So is it quarterly, like oh, Iknow who that person is like.
If you send stuff quarterly,you'll probably get put on a
spam list more than if you sendstuff daily because they don't
even know who you are right like.
So it's based on thatrelationship.
So, like you know how close doyou want to be to them?
You know really weekly I thinkis is really good, monthly is
(06:49):
okay you know daily if you'retrying to build that, that that
really close rapport with themlike a best friend or a family
member, like you got to thinkabout all that and you got to
think about a lot of differentthings of how maybe let's talk
about that how would you set uplike a standard campaign for,
you know, I don't knowe-commerce business and then
(07:10):
we'll say, like a servicebusiness or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I mean, there's different pieces of it, right.
So for e-com, a lot of whenpeople are coming in is to get
the 15% off right To hear aboutthe sales or if it's a shopping
cart abandonment type thing.
But the newsletters I like oncea week.
If you're emailing me more thanonce a week I don't want to be
your friend, that's too muchright.
But once a month I'm going toforget about you.
So I think the magic is and itdepends on your personality.
If you're authentically likeevery day feels good, do it Once
(07:34):
a month is not enough.
But somewhere between two tofour times a month is a good
range.
And if you can do twice a monthis a good range.
And if you can do twice a monthfor six months and step it up,
because some people reallystruggle with that commitment,
they make it this really bigdeal and it's not so.
The service-based business iskind of what I said before right
, they could come in through alead magnet or come in through a
(07:55):
program and get some value.
But getting them on thatnewsletter list where they can
kind of see what you're doingand I urge this to people all
the time and I'm not giving anyadvice here or anywhere ever
that I don't follow myself.
It's all based on actualexperience and never theory.
But be yourself, man.
Put your wins and, moreimportantly, your losses out
(08:16):
there, because people don't wantto connect with your brand,
they want to connect withMatthew, they want to connect
with Jason, so put yourself outthere.
Some of the best open rates youwill get on emails or emails
like you're not going to believethis massive failure I had.
People are sick man.
They love that stuff.
So why do you think reality TVis so popular?
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
No, I just I totally agree with you.
I think that really you got tothink about what are you trying
to do with email?
You're trying to connect withsomebody one-to-one.
And if you're always puttingyour best foot forward.
It's like you know everybodycan look good in an interview.
You know what I mean.
Like, people want to know thereal you.
They want that authentic feel.
And also, if you're notpassionate about something or
(08:58):
you're doing something because,oh, I need to do this, because X
, y, Z, but it's not inside you,you're not going to keep it up.
So, speaking to the once a day,like there's, there's things
ritualistically like that, likecertain kinds of news that I
look at, I could easily turnthat into a newsletter and just
share what I'm finding with it.
Right, like, so it's not.
(09:19):
It's not that hard to findsomething if you're passionate
about it, that you have a why toconnect with somebody on how to
do it.
And you know, I think minimumyou have to do it once a month.
Because if you do, if you don'tdo it once a month and you just
start sending emails later,that whole list is dead, I think
, because you're going to get somuch spam off it and and you're
(09:39):
really looking for engagement,right?
So you want to constantly stayin front of them.
Even if they don't even readthe email, they're still seeing
it Like, and I would even saylike on LinkedIn.
Linkedin's got a lot better andit's a LinkedIn's job to filter
out all that spam, becausemarketers, of course, ruin
everything.
But I'm going to tell you, evenif you sent that spam email in
LinkedIn, if those people arelocking into LinkedIn and
(10:00):
they're posting, they're goingto see your name, they're going
to see what you do and they'reposting, they're going to see
your name, they're going to seewhat you do and they're going to
see that headline.
And when I, when I do emailmarketing which was it's like an
add on service for for otherthings that we do Um, I, you
know, if I don't, if I don'tknow what the right thing to do
is, I just use the wholealphabet and I test.
You know, I'll set it up, orI'll set up, like you know, 26
(10:27):
different titles.
You know and and figure outwhat are people responding to,
and then the kind of that's thegreat magic about internet
marketing is you can continue tooptimize based upon data.
You don't have to just guess,like in branding or traditional
marketing.
So I think it's super powerful.
And the email analytics I meanthat, that should that, and SEO.
In my opinion, that and SEO arekind of like the core of your
business, because peoplecontinuously organically find
(10:49):
you at all funnels of thechannel.
And then email should work fromnot just like cold email, but
nurture existing clients,keeping people up to date of
what's going on.
Like email fits in everywhere,just like SEO does.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You said something earlier in the show I wanted to
touch on.
Like email fits in everywhere,just like SEO does.
So you said something earlierin the show I wanted to touch on
.
So you really were talkingabout just get started with
where you are so a phrase we usein our business and that I live
by is good enough to get it outthere, right?
Just before this podcast, Ilaunched a new Facebook ad.
It goes into active campaignand all that exists.
There's a notification.
(11:24):
There's no email.
I'll get to it later today.
I didn't have time to finish it, but at least that damn ad is
out there and approved and I'llget the rest of it built.
I can't tell you the amount ofautomations where people have
hit an email and below it it'sblank.
And I know I have a three-daywait and I haven't even finished
it yet because so many peoplein business this is all parts of
business and in life right, yougot me up in this soapbox now,
(11:46):
so now you got to hear it.
They want to wait till thingsare perfect.
No one cares if it's perfect,and they're not going to know if
it's perfect or not, becausethose are your rules you're
assigning to it, not somebodyelse's.
So if it's perfect and on theshelf, it doesn't have any value
.
It's got to be in the game.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So so, to even pile on more right, a social media
post on average has a four hourlifespan.
Okay and like, even if youstart looking at, like all kinds
of like really interesting data, people are more concerned If
you meet somebody with how theyacted in that scenario, there's
(12:33):
like 20% memory in anything thatyou even did.
So, unless you did somethingthat hit the um, you know really
bad, really good, you blend inthe like, you know you just, you
just blend into the background.
Obscurity is the word I waslooking for, but what I can tell
you is you want to make surewhatever your message is, boom,
you hit that message and thenall all that else that matters
is just that you're availableand you're following up and
you're, you're there, but peoplejust, yeah, I think that
(12:57):
there's, uh, people freeze anddon't execute.
Um, now, certainly, you run anad or something like that and,
uh, the link doesn't work, likeyou want to double check and
make sure, uh, but, but some ofthese platforms will protect you
in that.
But email marketing, that email, you know, is going to be seen
by people for three seconds orseven seconds and then they're
probably not going to see itagain.
(13:18):
And so you know, would yourather create that touch point
or not, right Like, and so yougot to take massive action to uh
change like your trajectory aswell as like where you're
currently at.
Like, and that's what I think alot of people don't understand
is how much action has to betaken to move the needle,
(13:39):
because there's so much noise.
There's something like I don'teven know.
I at one point it was like 800messages a day, but it's gotta
be double that or triple thatnow that we get inundated with
it.
So how do you cut through theclutter?
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Inundated with it, so how doyou cut?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
through the clutter.
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Yeah, that's the key rightthere.
It's just like the weight room.
If you go to the weight roomand have the best workout of
your life once a month, you'renever going to see any change.
It's not going to happen Now.
If you do a C plus workout fivedays a week, you're going to
see a difference in three months, big time.
So it's not my opinion,important than anything.
What's?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
the secret to success .
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Be consistent with something right.
Well, I'm not seeing results.
Do it longer or try somethingdifferent, but nothing good
comes overnight.
Man, the hardest lesson.
I talked to somebody the otherday about this hardest lesson
I've had to learn as anentrepreneur.
I was not a patient person whenI started this business 10
years ago, but what I found isthe timeline is unknown, right
For things to happen click,change, blow up, whatever.
(14:37):
I don't know what it's going tobe, so you keep going until it
happens Like I'm not a I'm goingto try this and go back to
corporate America kind of guy.
I'm not that guy at all.
Last year was actually a very,maybe the hardest year I've ever
had in business Very hard.
My wife at one point was likedo you think you need to go get
a job?
And I said I will never get ajob that pays what I make now.
(14:58):
That's not an option.
Never say that to me again.
Get out of my face.
We're not doing that Right andI'm wired that way.
Most people aren't, but I'mwired that way.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
But let's find a bad offer.
And if you, if you want a 10 toX better return on, like,
create a 10 X better offer,right, and I like the
consistency of the military justreally helps you.
Or having that routine, whetherit's working out or whatever,
getting up to do those things,and you're right.
Like you, you work out forforever.
You don't know when the musclesare going to start showing up,
you don't know when the six packis going to be there, like you
(15:56):
just keep going because you knowyou're doing the right thing
and you're moving in the rightdirection, and certainly some
actions better than no action,because you're definitely going
to be moving towards that goalor away from it.
Now I want to switch gears.
We were talking in thepre-interview about active
campaign, go high level.
So a lot of people that listen,if they're not in digital
marketing, a lot of people thatlisten are in digital marketing.
(16:17):
But there's a lot of kind ofpeople that are taking over
their parents' business or theybought in a business or they're
trying to digitally transformtheir company from the
traditional way to generateleads.
And you got HubSpot advertisingreally strongly.
You got active campaign outthere, you got go high levelaign
out there.
You got GoHighLevel.
Gohighlevel seems to be the hotthing out there.
I remember when GoHighLevellaunched there was no even
(16:40):
manual how to use it.
There was no customer support.
It was really tough, buteverybody that knew how to use
it was just absolutely ravingabout it.
Now I think we've come a longway since then, but maybe you
could kind of set the table asfar as, like I mean infusion
soft.
So on the click funnelsconference they were talking
about confusion soft thatthey're just kind of like
(17:02):
knocking on it, like so like setthe table for like the
different um email marketingtools and maybe what, how you
view what they might be usedbest for, because everybody's
positioned a little differently.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, great, great question.
So go high level.
It's everything ClickFunnelswanted to be initially.
I'm just a straight shooter, sogo high level.
The Calendly feature looksexactly like Calendly they
ripped it off.
The automation builders, likeActiveCampaign, looks a little
older but it's more powerful.
It's an attempt to be anall-in-one tool.
I've never seen an all-in-onetool that I really love for all
(17:35):
reasons.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
But Go High.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Level gives you a lot of potential functionality.
It's very overwhelming for newclients.
There's a big learning curve.
Active Campaign is a competitor.
It is going to be, in myopinion.
I still use it for my business,even though we work in both
with our clients.
Activecampaign is a cleanerinterface, smaller learning
curve.
It's still the king withautomation and CRM.
(17:57):
It just is.
Hubspot's a great one.
Hubspot generally gets veryexpensive, so as people start
building-.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
And they lock you in.
They kind of get you indifferent ways and they lock you
in and then you have to do itand I get into people.
I was HubSpot certified.
I get in and I'm like you'redoing an email newsletter once a
month and you're paying forcraziness, you know, yep.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So HubSpot we lose about 10 clients a year to
HubSpot and they're generallymoving up to, you know,
significant revenue and they Ialmost feel like it's a badge of
honor Like people like no, nowI can afford this.
But so you've got thesedifferent tools out there.
Active campaign is not going tobe the tool you want.
Don't forget about MailChimp.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Mailchimp is the one you want to start with right?
Like I don't, I've never reallyused Aweber, but MailChimp I
think is great and you canactually set up multiple
accounts in there and it's ait's an easy to use, fast tool.
Like I said, we useActiveCampaign because I like
kind of building out theworkflow a little bit and the
(18:55):
messaging and the lead scoring.
But I mean you can get startedwith MailChimp in a day.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And the key here is use something.
Use something.
I started with MailChimp yearsand years ago as well, but use
something.
Build a list with a purpose,right?
Nobody cares about yournewsletter.
Nobody cares about your whitepaper or your ebook that
somebody on Fiverr made you,that they've made for 50 other
clients.
Create three videos with two orthree minutes of authentic
(19:22):
screen.
Share value and do somethingdifferent.
Do something your clientsactually care about in your own
style.
There's an idea for a leadmagnet.
Your lead magnets, or youroffer to get a name and email
address, should be worth acouple hundred bucks or more in
perceived value.
Otherwise, nobody cares.
But take advantage of email.
It's a great way to keep intouch with people, in addition
(19:43):
to getting them on your YouTubeor your podcast, whatever else
you got going on.
It doesn't require much effortto be effective.
I cannot tell you the amount ofpeople like well, I'll get that
done later.
Here's the way that I teachfunnels right.
You've got three pieces of afunnel.
The first piece is traffic.
You're getting attention onlineor offline, directing it to a
page online.
The second piece is the frontend.
(20:05):
It's the pages online.
The last piece is the back end.
Everybody wants to do the backend last.
It's really dumb.
You should do it first.
Have a plan.
What happens when people get toyour list?
Then worry about traffic.
Then do your front end.
You can use Facebook lead adforms, conditional logic, make
them very high intent and pushpeople directly into the back
end.
You can do it with high levelor active campaign.
(20:25):
You don't even need a websiteand you can still get qualified
people on your calendar in twoor three days from now and
people want to argue with mewhile I'm generating leads for
myself and my clients doing thatsame thing.
So it doesn't have to be hard.
The hardest part is aconversation you have with
yourself about why you can't doit.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
No for sure.
I mean, I can tell you that ifyou're even skeptical,
calendarly, which is kind of themarket leader right now for
calendars they send you a textmessage or even email if you
verify in to get people to makesure they show up for that
appointment.
If that is turned off, like, Ican see a depreciable amount of
(21:04):
people that show up to meetingsif they're not reminded about it
.
So, even if there's anautomation, that's that simple
to say, hey, you've alreadyagreed to this meeting.
Like, please come to it.
Like the, the show up rates areso much higher, so email has so
many uses and it's like so, sopowerful.
Like, if you're not doing itright, and if you don't, if
(21:25):
you're not generating an emaillist, that's the one thing that
is your asset, right, that thatthat you have, like, certainly
your website.
But to, to, to reach out topeople, to interact with them,
to communicate with them, even.
Um, you know, I need to take myown advice for this podcast,
cause I have a lot of listenersthat I don't know who they are
and I need to have adownloadable, and there I'm
really kind of shifting fromworking in the business to uh,
(21:49):
kind of uh, doing more of uh,the the of the teaching and
stuff like that getting outthere on social media.
Let's talk about that.
So how important like.
So, email is like backbone,right, and you got a website and
you got to email to get peopleto that website.
It's a high converting website,you know.
Okay, it's showing up with SEOin, you know, for the different
(22:09):
keywords, so people areorganically finding you.
So you have a little bit of afunnel going.
Okay, where do you see paid adsfitting in?
Because I think paid ads Istarted in paid ads.
I think paid ads is fantastic,like I think it adds, it's a
compounding kind of effect andso kind of, okay, a lot of
people are running advertisingAlmost anybody I talked to
(22:30):
they're running a bunch ofadvertisers 're spending way too
much money, I think, on onechannel advertising, and I'm
like, spread this thing around.
Let's, like you know, let's hitsome multiple channels here.
Um, is is typically what Iadvise.
I mean, how, how do you seethat?
Like, when someone comes to you, what are the issues that
they're dealing with?
And then, like, what are yourecommending to them?
And then how do you um combineuh paid ads to to the mix?
(22:53):
I just kind of hear yourthoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, I mean it depends what niche they're in.
I mean we work with a lot ofcapital raisers for real estate,
but high ticket serviceproviders are really our broader
niche.
Typically, when people arelooking for more leads, they're
just relying on referrals.
You know they don't have awhole lot going on.
They might be doing someorganic posting to LinkedInin,
but nothing's really happenedfrom it.
So if they have a budget,facebook facebook ads is a
(23:18):
supplement to our.
What they're already doing isgenerally why go first?
It's the quickest way to startshowing them some, some life,
some blood in their business.
Then, obviously, getting thatnurture set up.
What happens after the call issuper important as well, because
not everybody's gonna invest orbuy on the first call.
Most won't unless you have somereally high pressure sales
tactics, which we don't.
So that's really importantDoing something.
(23:42):
I think guesting on podcasts forme has always been more
valuable than hosting my ownshow.
Your show is really successful.
You've been doing it a longtime.
You probably have a differentexperience, but I love getting
on as a guest.
I've been on I don't know 110,115 podcasts now and it's great
getting in front of newaudiences.
It's fun, it's a good use ofyour time.
I like YouTube.
I like getting in front of thecamera and the mic, getting on
(24:03):
stage.
So YouTube's a platform that Ilike to create and totally
unplug.
So I think getting yourself onvideo is huge and a lot of
people don't like it.
But face-to-face is best, butit's not scalable.
Right, it's not scalable, it'sexpensive, it's inconvenient.
But getting on video is hugebecause people can figure out
(24:24):
very quickly, within a fewseconds of watching you speak is
this person full of shit or dothey seem like they're kind of
authentic, they figure out andthey make a lot of decisions
quickly.
So it really can shorten thatno like and trust thing.
So doing stuff with videosGreat, I really like it.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Well, so to speak, out to videos.
I mean, this is, I think, agolden error for for videos,
since, like all the live days,like when, everything was going
live was like awesome.
And then now, now, if you're,you know, if you're a business
like, you're not going to getany visibility unless you pay to
play, which I understand that,and I think that there's value
in kind of giving the searchengines or the different social
media platforms a little bit ofmoney to kind of warm up to you,
(25:02):
and it makes a lot of sense todo that.
But I can tell you right now,posting on TikTok, if it stays
around like it's back and forth,I don't know, youtube Shorts
and Instagram is where it's atto get organic reach, you can
set up like a mini chat whereyou have like a downloadable
text me this send you that Nowyou've got the email address
(25:23):
right, offer organic trafficright and you've given them some
value.
And then you can continue thatconversation because a lot of
people are like well, I don'thave the right lead magnet.
Continue that conversationbecause a lot of people are like
well, I don't have the rightlead magnet.
To your point, if you get theright video of just you
answering a problem of like hey,here are the three things that
I do.
That do whatever and you canspeak to it in your authority on
(25:44):
it.
You put that together with thecall to action.
You can put that on yourwebsite.
It will convert.
You can put that on anewsletter.
You can put that on socialmedia.
You can turn that into a paidad.
So, like, everybody has access.
Now that Zoom is a thing sinceCOVID, right, or whatever.
Whatever you're using GoogleMeets, whatever it is, you know
Microsoft, I'm sorry, so there'sa lot of problems, but and my
(26:06):
mom worked there so I can saythat but I would tell you that
you can get on video and you canrecord video.
There's no excuse to be able todo it.
Like you said, you're just inyour own way.
Figure it out.
What you have value in You're.
You know, know, like and trust.
They pick up so much from youby what you say, right, there's
so many on, you know, on thingsthat are not in the words, right
(26:30):
, so there's things that are notin the words, especially text,
right, things that are not inthe words, right, so there's
things that are not in the words, especially text, right, you
get text confusion all the timeof what's going on.
But if you're an authority,you're an expert, right, and
you're trustworthy.
That's all you need tocommunicate in.
Whatever it is that you'reoffering, put that out there and
put a couple of videos.
The algorithm is going to tellyou if it's good or not, and
(26:53):
then you can pick that up andturn that into an ad.
But, like, you could do thisall in a day and you could start
generating a list.
But I think that, even goingback to the beginning, do it now
.
Do it now like to the beginningof it.
You just gotta.
You gotta take action and, andI think, um, one of the things
that I would love for you tospeak on and we were talking
about this in the pre-interviewis how do you figure out who to
(27:17):
trust, right, because everybodyand their dog can hang a shingle
out and say you know, Iactually wrote so this book.
I'm meeting with a client likeafter this, but I wrote this
book a couple years ago when Ikept seeing like 15-year-old
Instagram, uh, saying they'regoing to help me grow my
business, and I was just like,um, and for anybody that listens
(27:38):
, it's called um how totransform yourself into an
authoritative brand and attractyour uh ideal customers, build
your brand mania.
So that's, that's a book Iwrote about five years ago, but
I literally wrote this bookexplaining my journey and like
how to do it.
Um, so I say I like, just likeyou, I drank my own kool-aid.
But like you're kids, I likehow can you prove to me that you
(28:01):
do it if you're 15?
Like, how are you a a businessconsultant?
Like it's just good and like itwas just it was, it was too
much and so that that that kindof perpetuates is okay.
How do you do email marketingright?
It's not like accounting.
You know what I mean.
Like it's kind of a little bitof an art and there's so many
people out there that say theydo it and look, I call it
(28:22):
kissing frogs.
Honestly is, I've been doingthis long enough.
I have so many different people.
I've used agencies, consultants, people that I've known, hired,
done partnerships with, like Ikind of have a sense of like who
to use or where to go, but forsomebody that's starting out,
it's like I'm running thisbusiness and I need somebody to
email marketing.
Like I can go 50,000 places andget a hundred thousand names of
(28:45):
people that do this.
I mean I can tell you there'slike I don't know how many.
I think there's like 1800something agencies in Houston
Like okay, how do I know whichones are good?
Like I don't know any of thesepeople, right?
So, like, when you're lookingat email marketing, maybe what
are some questions you can askthem or what are some things you
can look for?
Maybe, like I know, the badgesand the certifications are super
helpful as a starting point.
But, like, how would youevaluate an email marketing
(29:07):
person if?
If you were trying to hiresomebody today?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That's a great question.
I mean, like you said,unfortunately age has a piece to
it.
You know, if you're living athome, I don't really want to
hear your life lessons becauseyou've never got out of the
world on your own.
So, finding somebody that'sbeen doing it for a little while
, but getting them on a videocall, get them on a Zoom call,
have a conversation If theyoversell themselves with, the
(29:31):
results are probably full ofshit.
Honestly, we've worked withclose to 700 people in active
campaign in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I jump on a call with people.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's a lot.
It's a lot.
I jump on a call with people, Ifigure out what they're doing,
what they're trying to do, andif it's not a good fit, I want
to say, hey, you know, e-com'snot really our focus.
There's other people that focuson that.
It's not really us.
But let me give you a couple ofpointers to leave you better
than I found you.
While we're on here Off, you goJumping on a Zoom call with them
, asking questions, seeing whatthey are.
(30:03):
When people want me toguarantee stuff, can you
guarantee?
Search it in me.
Have a good day.
I don't want anything to dowith this scenario because we're
just starting and this iscoming off crazy.
You're going to be a nightmaresix months down the road.
I'm going to hate my lifebecause of you.
So I'm going to set you freeand send you on your way.
Brother, I have no problemtelling people that I might have
(30:26):
one of those conversationstoday to be honest with you, so
we'll see how it goes.
I'm a nice guy, but I'm notscared to tell you exactly what
I think.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And especially if it's answering a question.
If you have a question, I'mgoing to give you an answer.
So well, I think you know, seeagain, consulting and giving
people advice on on what to doand how to stay out of the ditch
.
You know, I, I'm happy toprovide that, that direction,
and and I have lots of years ofexperience and lots of campaigns
to be able to say, hey, this iswhat I'm seeing going on and
this is what I really think youshould do, um and and and so.
But I can tell you that the um,the guarantee business, is a
(31:02):
different model, Like like, okay, well, give me, give me a piece
of the revenue, right, like,like what we got to get more
involved, but like out of thegate, like I want we need to
step into this thing, right, andso there, there's a lot of
those kinds of things that Ithink that people if I'm
speaking to the agency ownersout there now and the
(31:23):
freelancers don't pick up thewrong client because, look, I'm
always going.
I want to hit this out of thepark.
I want to get a good review outof this.
I want this client to be myclient long-term, I want to get
referrals out of this.
So I know what my ideal clientis and if it's not, I try to
tell them that and I try todissuade them to say, hey, this
ain't going to work.
Or if it's going to work, weneed to make sure that we build,
(31:44):
because a lot of people knowwhat they want but they don't
have the budget to do it Right.
Worst thing you can do, even ifit's not a bad client, is take
on a client that you know that,that, that, that you're, you're,
(32:04):
whatever you're doing, theydon't have enough horsepower or
fire power to deliver that Right.
Like.
So, if you're brand new productand you're doing cold email
marketing or whatever, um, likeyou got to have enough accounts
going, you got to have enoughemails.
Like, and it's a numbers gameto to to a certain degree, but
like if you're trying to rankfor a very difficult keyword and
you have big competitors, hey,like you're not going to get
there on like a shoe stringbudget.
(32:25):
So it's really about umevaluating, I think, for um, all
the freelancers and agenciesout there, the the the right
client, because that client'sgoing to cost you a ton of money
, and that's how my agency hasbeen able to scale is making
sure we're picking the rightclients and also that goes back
all the way back to emailmarketing is making sure the
(32:46):
hook.
The hook is right, becauseyou're going to, you're going to
see in the leads what the baitis you're putting out like from
a fishing analogy, and if youtweak that, you can get exactly
what you're looking for in theright messaging solving the
right problem and hitting theright people Right.
I think that it's.
You know what?
Is it the right target at theright time with the right
(33:09):
message, or something like that?
Like really is.
I mean, tell me a little bitabout like sequencing and then
we'll start to kind of wrap uphere, getting close to time.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah.
So I mean I always tell peopleit's like any new relationship
in life You're going to talkmore, more often when you first
meet somebody.
And as time goes by it's notnecessary.
Like if my mom, after me beingalive for 43 years now, she
wants to talk every day, I'mgoing to be like mom about once
a week Every day, 43 years now.
If she wants to talk every day,I'm going to be like mom about
once a week every day is kind ofa lot.
(33:39):
I don't have much to say.
I work at home, it's not thatmuch going on.
But if a new neighbor moves innext door at first we're going
to talk often to get to knoweach other.
So it's kind of the same waywith your sequencing you don't
want to be overwhelming, like ifI get on your list and you
(34:00):
making those touch points.
Uh, something I was going tosay just with, like email
structure, what I use.
I love playing to curiosity.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do with subject lines and
even the beginning of emails.
But, um, curiosity to get itopen, a little hook at the
beginning, little storytellingabout our real pain or our real
success or whatever, oneactionable question or thing and
then some kind of a call toaction.
I pretty much do that in everynewsletter and it's very
(34:22):
conversational.
If you read my emails theywould say, man, it sounds
exactly like Jason.
It's because it is right.
I say I speak exactly how Iwrite and vice versa.
And it works well because it'seasy for me to create, it's easy
to consume and it's differentthan everybody else.
So I hope there's value there.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
No, I think that that's great.
I I think that many times I'vetalked to people or message
people and then I've spoken tothem or met them in person,
right and, and they're different, right and, and that's so wild,
and and you would think, youwould think that across all
mediums you want to be the sameperson and be and communicate
(35:01):
that same way.
I've started to do a lot ofemails where I'm just talking,
right, so I'm not typing anymore, I'm just talking, and then
I'll grammar check it orwhatever ever and just very
conversational.
You know, there's, there's aformula 7-11-4 that was put out
by a zero modem, a true study byGoogle that said seven hours of
(35:24):
content.
They got to consume seven hours, whether it's talking to you
live or checking out your stuffor whatever reading your emails.
And you know they see yourmessage 11 times and they need
to see it on four differentchannels.
And if you follow that formula,you're going to, you're going to
and you're targeting the rightpeople.
Good things are going to happen.
Like I don't think there's anyany other way, way around it.
(35:45):
But, man, if they just know whoyou are over over that quote,
unquote, seven hours, they'regoing to know, I can trust you
and they're going to decidewhether to do this with you.
Like you're, you're like astraight up, like you know, no,
no, like right, get right to thepoint.
Kind of a no nonsense kind ofguy.
People are going to listen tothis and go man, that's what I
want.
That's what I want to work with, right Um.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I describe my style as unapologetically authentic.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I like it.
I like it.
Well, hey, we're I.
I want to make sure people knowhow to get in touch with you.
Where are you hanging out?
What are you doing?
I know you got an emailnewsletter.
People have inscribed true,kind of tell, tell, tell
everybody your info.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yep, so company is intentionally inspirationalcom.
So that is also the website youcan go to If you really want to
see Jason unplugged.
More of this, but even a bitmore hardcore.
Our YouTube channel.
We have a playlist called Smoke, flow and Grow and it's turned
into me reviewing a lot ofcigars and hanging out by my
pool and talking a little bitabout business, but it's a great
(36:44):
place to get more of a feel forme, unplugged and, yeah,
intentionallyinspirationalcom.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Love it, jason.
Thank you so much for coming on.
No-transcript.
(37:27):
So that was.
That was pretty cool and untilthe next time, guys.
Bye-bye for now.
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