The Week That Was – 10th May 2024

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
And joining us in the studio today the Deputy Opposition
leader Jared Mayley.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
Good morning, Katie, Good morning listeners. And keep Holtz in Lichfield.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Oh we go, we started already. Holy moly.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, they might not even need
us today.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
I reckon you should bring Jerry Wood now and get
him in yesterday often more than I could on these issues.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Plenty of other things to discuss this morning as well.
Matt Cunningham from Sky.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
News is here. Kezier Puric, Good morning to you. Kezier.

Speaker 5 (00:33):
Good morning, Katie. Dunelds agree with the Seal people. I
agree with Jared Helps belongs to Lichfield and we got
more no I's say.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Kate Warten's just ready to steal that microphone off. Kezier,
Good morning to you, Kate.

Speaker 6 (00:44):
Good morning and I'm looking forward to this. This is great.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
So yeah, let's see what happens. But look, we're not
going to start in the rural area. We're actually going
to start a little further out in Daily River because
we know that the Northern Territory Chief Minister, according to
Sky News this morning, has to warring families in a
remote indigenous community to get a job and send their
children to school. The state governments rejected criticism that it

(01:09):
was too sow to respond to the violent incidents in
Daily River and a gang of youth offenders ran riot
as we know in the community of Daily River, with
people being shot at and houses and cars set alight.
The Chief Minister spoke to you yesterday, Matt Cunningham, as
I understand it, and said that the families involved in
escalating riots need to take responsibility for their actions.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, she was pretty strong with their words evil Ula,
and I think most people would probably agree with the
sentiment of what she's saying. I mean, what we've seen
unfold there at Daily River is absolutely shocking. I was
out there for the day on Tuesday. I spent about
three hours just traveling around with Mark Casey, who's a

(01:50):
man who was the Aboriginal community police officer out there
for more than twenty years, and just to see the
level of destruction out there, where houses have been completely gutted,
cars stolen, set on fire. You know, there's one place
there where you can see the car that's driven into
the side of the house and been set on fire.
Then the house has been set on fire, then all
of the belongings from inside of the house have been

(02:11):
thrown out onto the front lawn and the place has
practically been destroyed. You know, he was telling me stories
about women aged in their eighties who were being terrorized
by some of these gang members. You can see the
graffiti of the gang in question that is sprayed spray
painted over different parts in the community. So I think that,

(02:34):
you know, everyone agrees that this is unacceptable behavior, and
the Chief Minister was certainly calling it out. I mean,
and as to how to address it, well, I think
she's right from a long term point of view. You know,
the kids need to go to school and their parents
need to be working. But that is a lofty goal
and I think achieving that is going to take a
lot of time and effort.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
I want to take a step back because ultimately, have
a look at the labor government have changed laws over
a number of years and the consequences. So when it
comes down to these people doing is no, they're not
going to get it in trouble. They know they're going
to get the revolving door of bail. I think I
read that one of them was on bail already and
is being out for Warren arrest and removed his ankle bracelet.
So it really shows how the Labor government over time

(03:17):
has just taken a little bit away from the police power,
taken away the consequences and now the actual action out
there is happening and these people aren't safe in their
community because the labor government have failed to speak community.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
The NT News was this morning reporting that yes, a
teenager who allegedly fired across bow at a group of
people during the rioting at Daily River last week was
on bail and had a warrant out for his arrest
at the time.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
That is what a court has heard that.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
This eighteen year old faced the Darwin Local Court on Wednesday,
charged with going armed in public, taking part in a
riot recklessly and dangering life aggravated assaults, amongst other things.
The court heard that he'd been granted bail in September
last year and allegedly tampered with or removed his electronic
monitoring device at least four times before failing to show

(04:01):
up at court a month later.

Speaker 7 (04:03):
And so Jared said that right, you know, there's a
worn out for his arrest and I think as of today,
there's been six arrests out daily of these young people.
I think we probably shouldn't even name the gang.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
We know the game.

Speaker 7 (04:17):
But what the Chief Minister also said is what this
is is a crisis. And and there are three police
officers stationed in daily itself all the time, and those
three police officers there's only one hundred and twenty people
living there, so it's actually quite a high number of
police officers for the community at large. But in that
whole region there are long standing family feuds that this

(04:38):
gang has emanated from and it will not take police
to fix it. It's a long term crisis. And what
Eva did say yesterday, our Chief Minister said on top
of that was this needs to be a whole of
community and we also need organizations like the land councils,
all the NGOs working in the area to come together
and solve long standing communities.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
So earlier in the week, the NLC chairman, he said, Katie,
my door is always open, but I didn't get invited
to the meeting last week.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
So I don't think there was a meeting last week,
so catch up.

Speaker 7 (05:10):
What's happened is that will governments come together to go
what can we do.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
So then if you're saying the NLC needs to come
to the table, we wouldn't you invite them.

Speaker 7 (05:16):
That is the next step is to move into a
mediation phase in that area. That region needs a community solution.
This is the crisis and that we're talking about. We
should not need police going in these long standing family
feuds that we've seen in Peppy that we've seen in.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
What is the issue is Like, I totally agree with you.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
I do think that there obviously needs to be that
long standing feuds that have been going on for a
long time. They do need to get sorted out, and
that can only be done really with the elders, with
the support of the elders and everybody in the community.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
But you've got people breaking the law.

Speaker 7 (05:52):
You've got people shooting clear crosspost.

Speaker 6 (05:56):
People are being arrested and they are going to jail.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
We've spoken to.

Speaker 6 (06:02):
And it's given court.

Speaker 7 (06:03):
So the bail is given by the burt or the police.

Speaker 6 (06:09):
Instantly go on bail.

Speaker 7 (06:10):
There's bow that you're not giving any context to that bail.
It may have been their first offense. You have apps.
You are completely misleading in the space. You've been doing
it for years and.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Listening to heel it back a tiny bit here.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yes, So there is a real sense in the community
right now though, and I've said this time and time again,
whether you're talking about Daily River, whether you're talking about
Alice Springs, whether you're talking about Darwin, that people are
breaking the law, they're committing crimes, and that there isn't
a real consequence. And I know that there's more people
in jail than there's ever been before. I know that there's, yes,
there's people going to jail. But when you have then

(06:46):
got the likes of this group that I'm not going
to name, saying on social media what they're doing, sharing
vision on social media at different times of what they're doing,
and the sentiment amongst the community is will hang on
a seat. Why is somebody out on bail and they've
tampered with their ankle device four times?

Speaker 6 (07:05):
And warrant for arrest?

Speaker 8 (07:07):
This is the Laura and order.

Speaker 6 (07:08):
You get a warrant for arrest.

Speaker 7 (07:10):
Post that that's right.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
And I think in this case, I mean these Austin,
who is the judge in this case, denied bail to
that person. Yeah, after the subsequent events, which was that
she had bailed him previously, and then you had the
defense lawyer in court saying, oh, he should be bailed again,
you know, because he's going to be a good boy
and he's going to go here and someone's going to

(07:32):
look after him. And she said, nah, I'm not buying that.
I've given him a chance. He blew it and sorry,
he's going to be remarded in custody. I think the
problem we have, and we've discussed some of these cases
here previously, where we've seen cases where people young offenders
have gone before the court won two, three, four, five, six,
seven times and judges have repeatedly given them bail and

(07:56):
then they have subsequently terrorized members of the community. So
I think in this case, the judge has done absolutely
the right thing because because this is.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
A danger courit.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Remember there's labor government. I had a bail review after
that poor fellow was stabbed, and there was no change
to the law after the bail review, so they've had
an opportunity to review it. The government chose not to
make any changes to the bail and now were can
hear complaining and having to put up with these people
who are terrorizing the community because the government has failed
to act here to take a step back. This labor
government of being in powerful at ninety in our last

(08:27):
twenty years. This child probably even born when the labor
coming came into power. So when you talk about was
a generational thing, it's going to take time. How much
time do you need to give the labor government to
fix the community. They've had twenty years to do it.

Speaker 6 (08:38):
That's not true. Cat been in government for.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Only as here.

Speaker 7 (08:41):
I'll let you have a Goatie, Katie.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
My cnrent was going to be back towards the Daily
River yes only. Yesterday I was calling the shopping center
and a friend of mine from olden days, a original fellow,
he lives out there and his family and he's sort
of semi retired, and he took his family out of
Dahlia and they went bush and like he's got kids
and grandkids, all that sort of stuff, and he said
it's just not safe. He said there's young pills and

(09:05):
he was very adamant. He said they've got to get
into work. And he said the other problem that the
community broadly and the people in that area is that
one of the old ladies is close to dying and
she wants to die in her community, so they've got
to take her home, but they're a bit worried, and
that that car that ran into the house part of
his family group and he said it's just not right,

(09:25):
and he was very adamant. But so I think it's
it's one thing to get the law and order under control,
but there's some other fundamental problem out here in that community,
whether it's to do with the clans fighting each other
or tit for tat and all that sort of that's
what has to get sorted out. The community itself is dysfunctional,
and there's two components as I see. There's the young
people running breaking in law continuously and no consequences, and

(09:49):
I do believe that. But there's the other part of
that community would be what I and Daily River are
both dysfunctional, and that's what needs to be sought out.
And that's what's a whole of everyone, but particularly the community. Well,
they're like what structures do they have out there to
deal with these kind of things, Like clearly, if there's
a tick for tap because someone punched someone at the
foey match, there needs to be something to be a

(10:10):
circuit breaker, because otherwise today it's what I am daily
tomor it will be you'd move or Brute Island or wherever.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well, and we are seeing issues.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
We are certainly seeing issues right across the Northern Territory
when it comes to youth crime, youth concerns, crime right
across the board. But last week we spoke at length
about the situation with Tonguanjia Council Aboriginal Corporation, an organization
paid tens of millions of dollars in government grants each
year in Alice Springs. They came under fire for declining meetings,

(10:39):
allegedly failing to deliver services adequately, and allowing a convicted
domestic violence offender to sit on their board.

Speaker 5 (10:46):
Now, more importantly, they are not fielding annual reports an auditory.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (10:51):
So department has not chased it up.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
So according to according to the ABC, they are in
a situation where they've not released on your report since.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Two thousand and eighteen.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Now, earlier this week, the Northern Territory Chief Minister said
that Tongue Jeer's youth Hub service excuse me on town
camps will not be continuing. This was a two point
three million dollar pilot program that started in twenty twenty one,
Territory Families, Housing and Communities undertook an evaluation of the
hubs and found that they were not engaging the targeted

(11:24):
youths intended. She said, we tried something new, it didn't work.
This has come up due to our budget cycle and
seeing which programs are getting us the best outcomes.

Speaker 6 (11:34):
Correct And can I say, Katie, I was there. I
was the minister at the time.

Speaker 7 (11:37):
We worked very very hard with Tangier too Fun to
get those hubs off the ground. I have to say
it was really really tough work. I went down to
down there around the camps. They upskilled an awful lot
of local people to be in those jobs because there
was a minimum requirement. So that investment, I don't think
is a lost investment. There's people in there that have

(11:58):
good job ready skills that could go somewhere else. Visited
them on a number of occasions as a Territory Famili's minister.

Speaker 6 (12:04):
But our target for that program was older kids that
were out at night.

Speaker 7 (12:08):
It clearly wasn't discouraging kids, it wasn't keeping them on
And Langolant Reports said, you need to look at grants
and you need to make sure and evaluate them Tananjier.
For example, with the Men's Behavior Change Program, we've evaluated
that it's superb and in fact, it's setting the pathway
for others in the men's behavior change So it does
a lot of really good stuff in that space with us.

Speaker 6 (12:28):
But in this space they had failed to meet their KPIs.

Speaker 7 (12:32):
We evaluated it, and I think territories want to know
that as a government, you're brave enough to say, hey,
that's not working, We'll put that money somewhere else, because
that's where it needs to work.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
I mean, are you brave enough to ask them though?
Why haven't you filed an annual report so.

Speaker 6 (12:43):
That it doesn't matter? That is with ORIC as well,
so they're major funder.

Speaker 8 (12:48):
I think they get.

Speaker 6 (12:50):
Millions of dollars. So ORIC is the federal government.

Speaker 7 (12:52):
They get most of their funding is from the federal government,
and they're an aboriginal organization, so they sit under that
organization and I think that they're now asking that question
as well.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
The other question I think people are asking. Kate and
you talk about the Men's Behavioral Change Program, but that
ABC report last week also revealed that there is a
convicted domestic violence perpetrator who sits on Tongue in ju.

Speaker 8 (13:14):
A council's board.

Speaker 6 (13:15):
So that's been taken up with them, and.

Speaker 8 (13:17):
That has been taken up and it has been taken
by the NT government.

Speaker 7 (13:20):
Yes, so you'll know that Scott McConnell is currently working,
not Scott McConnell, So somebody there are other people working
in that space in Alice Springs to address that issue.

Speaker 8 (13:31):
Because believes that that's unacceptable.

Speaker 6 (13:33):
I absolutely believe it's totally unacceptable.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
I'm just worried. It's just a tip of the iceburg.
What other taxpayer funded programs are out there getting paid
for and not working. We know that Alice Springs is
a bit of a market case. You're going to say
the word at the moment, and we had that arm
that you know if you're the circuit breaker. But ultimately,
over the years, Alice Springs has gone from when I
was there, when I was a younger, there was a
great town. It was full of vibe. You'd go there

(13:56):
for motorbikes or fun or whatever, and it's just gone downhill.
You go there now. I went there just recently and
it's all boarded up. It's unsafe to walk around the
streets and ultimately, you know the sealp of call for
an order of all those aboriginal funds. This is the
clip of the Iceberg.

Speaker 8 (14:11):
Let this lab.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
We're going to let it happen. Since twenty nineteen, no reports,
and when you're talking about failed caper where.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
You're aware of the non compliance in terms of filing
those your reports when you are what.

Speaker 7 (14:21):
Happens with us is that you give them a grant
and then they have to come back and equit that grant,
and we do an approval. So we do an evaluation.
Every grant that goes out from government. Langlance said that
goes out with a evaluation component. So for example, if
I'm giving them money for domestic violence programs, there's an
evaluation piece, and that the work that we've done with
TANG and all the spaces that I've had to do

(14:43):
with them other than this one space that's now been
identified as not performing THO evaluation has come back as
saying they're doing a really good job in our space.
So we go through a grant process overall. Because they're
an aboriginal organization, they sit with ORIC, and it's it's
relevant that ORIC does that work. I wasn't aware that
they hadn't done those, So it's a revelation to me
as well. But it wouldn't be normal that I would.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Be able that it's a revelation.

Speaker 6 (15:07):
Though I don't chase down their annual reports each year.

Speaker 7 (15:13):
What I do is I understand, yes exactly, so I
know that when their grants go out that they get acquitted,
so you get rid as.

Speaker 8 (15:22):
Though it probably is an indication that we do need
to have a closer look.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
I mean, they've been the call for the audits and
it's like but like that that's something that we should
be across as both in the territory government and a
federal government. If this organization is getting tens of millions
at thirty million dollars I think it was between the
federal and territory government in the last financial year.

Speaker 8 (15:42):
If it's receiving that sort of money.

Speaker 7 (15:43):
And they are acquitting their money though, and they are
delivering the programs that we're asking them to deliver on
the ground, So that's.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
Annual report, which includes the financials that are in an
annual report.

Speaker 8 (15:53):
Should be a key part.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
You know, it should be an absolute bare minimum of
what's required if you're receiving.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
That song I actually thought it was to any organization
that receives that kind of funding.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
So that's whereon with.

Speaker 7 (16:06):
Money from lots of places, and their predominant funder is
the federal government.

Speaker 6 (16:10):
So we fund them and we give them grants and
they acquit them.

Speaker 7 (16:13):
That's their job, and we need to look at those
and we've been looking at all of those programs and
evaluating them and making sure that they're delivering. And what
we're exactly talking about today is an outcome of that
process that we've implemented with all our grants that go
out to organizations. Now they are registered as an organization
with ORIC, which is a federal government organization, and ORIC

(16:33):
manage all that governance stuff, so.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
So how much and territory government provide like you, guys,
So you're totally satisfied that they are reporting to you
in the way that is required and that they're delivering
the services that they're provider.

Speaker 6 (16:45):
Terms or that they're focuses that we give them grants for.

Speaker 7 (16:48):
I am very satisfied that we've given them those grants
and they have to They are being evaluated as we
go along with those grants, and they are hitting the
mark with those programs now, I've got them in the
men's behavior change program. So I've never met more dedicated
part people that They've got the Girls Boys Can program
that they roll out and we put some funding into that,

(17:08):
and I'm very pleased with all the resources that have
been fired across the schools all over the territory. So yes,
I am very satisfied with the work that Tang is
doing in the space that I'm responsible for.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
The only other thing I was going to raise was
the refusal, according to the Alice Springstown Council at least
and the mayor to get any engagement with Tongue in Gierra.

Speaker 7 (17:29):
That's what they should be reporting that to OURIC if
that's the case. I've been to Tang and I've had
plenty of meetings with Tang.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
But you don't think that they need to be meeting
with the city with They should deal with the Alice
Screee Council.

Speaker 7 (17:40):
Well, if Alice Springs Council is a funder of a service.
So another example of what TANG does is they run
the buses at nighttime to pick up the young people.

Speaker 6 (17:48):
Those buses are there all the time. It's a very
very good service, but they get a very big blend
of money.

Speaker 7 (17:53):
I'm not sure what money the town council might put in,
but certainly from my perspective, I go to Alice, if
I go next week and I want a meeting with Tang,
they show up.

Speaker 6 (18:01):
And we have a whole range of there or people in.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
We are going to have to wrap up for We're
going to have to take a very quick break. You
are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
If you've just joined us, Jared Maylee, Matt Cunningham, Keziapurican,
Kate Warden all in the studio with us this morning.
Now it's been a big week when you talk about gas,
and we know that the federal government yesterday came out
and said that gas is going to be a key
energy source through to twenty fifty and beyond and play
a critical role in helping Australia meet its net zero

(18:31):
target while providing cheap and reliable power. Now that's according
to the new blueprint aimed at cementing the gas's role.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
I guess in our future energy meetings.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
He's always supported the gas up here and bring it
on the cob government has only just stated what we're well,
I can't speak for everyone listening, but.

Speaker 5 (18:50):
What we've all known, you know, you cannot get away
from the fact that we are going to need this
gas as a country and particularly as a territory if
we want to move forward economically with major projects that
are big energy consumers, for example a petrochemical plant or
any other kind of manufacturing plant. So all I've done
is formalize what we've all known all along, and the
Betloo is the classic. And see the other thing too, Katie,

(19:12):
is this is what we know that we've got right now.
There is nothing to suggest geologically that there's not a
lot more underneath, right underneath, when.

Speaker 8 (19:22):
What we know is five hundred trillion cubic feet, which
is a hell of a lot of gas.

Speaker 5 (19:27):
Just to put a perspective for people listening, black tip,
which is where we've got our gas is or was
one trillion cubic feet? All right, And that's looked after
the territory for fifteen years. Territory give will take Beatloo
is the five hundred give take Trulli in cubic feet,
So wh to five hundred one service the whole of
the territory.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
As well, you know, So Los Resources and.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
Those those poor bastards on the Eastern seaboard who suffering,
who are running out and have development. Yeah, I mean
where those trendy places.

Speaker 8 (20:00):
Look at what's happened now.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
So you've got these inner city and labor and pas
in Melbourne, Josh Burns, Jed Carney. They're worried obviously about
the fact that the Greens are going to take their seats.
I think in Josh Burn's seat at the last election,
Label was thirty two on the primary and the Greens
were thirty So you can understand why they're worried.

Speaker 8 (20:19):
But they're coming out and saying no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Well that's you know, it's very easy if you live
in Melbourne and you know, in a nice affluent part
of Melbourne and everyone's got a well paid job, and
you know, you don't have any of the social issues
that we see here, and you can go and be
on this great and Victoria.

Speaker 6 (20:35):
But Victoria is now saying no more domestic connections.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
No more domestic it's just intasingly enough.

Speaker 7 (20:40):
Their number of connections is still going up outside of
domestic connections. So the era of gas, if you're like,
is you know, we can call it transitional. We are
going to need gas. It's a fact we're going to
need gas for quite a period of time to be
able to get to the renewable stage because it's a
very expensive exercise and the territory needs its own source revenue.

Speaker 6 (21:00):
And I've said this repeatedly.

Speaker 7 (21:02):
We have got those social problems and I've heard you
say that, Matt, and it's so very clear. Own source
revenue is an ability that enables us to have that
ability to address some of those longer standing issues. But
I've also been talking, you know, as the Energy Minister,
with a lot of prospective gas people here in the
territory and what they've been very very clear about is

(21:22):
that they actually really enjoy working with our government. They
enjoy working with the labor government here in the territory
because our rules and guidelines are really clear, whether they
like them or not. You know, Joel from tambour And
said to me extremely clearly, and I know he won't
mind me sharing. He said, it's just so clear in
the territory what we've got to do, what improvals we need,
what the processes are, and they're really enjoying working with us.

Speaker 6 (21:44):
So we've made it very clear that.

Speaker 8 (21:46):
The environment.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
You've put us at least two years behind otherwise clear that.

Speaker 8 (22:00):
A section of your own party on Monday holding up
their signs.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
You know.

Speaker 7 (22:13):
Have done everything by the Northern territory and we have
also made sure like even if you didn't like the moratorium,
we were very clear coming into government that that's one
of the things that we were going to do.

Speaker 6 (22:23):
We got elected on that we did the moratorium.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
But what we have now press Combs just before she
resigned whether she supported the Santos Barosso project and she
could not say yes.

Speaker 7 (22:39):
So can I also say we now have a three
year baseline study about what the territory is environmental actually
looks like.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Government You can say what you like because you know
how to see your peg.

Speaker 6 (22:51):
Government would have come every corner and.

Speaker 7 (22:53):
We want an environmental disaster on our hands and CELP
have said they will cut everything all the way through,
cut a look times, cut all the environmental But what
we now know.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Is a good thing.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
What is a good thing is that we know now
that Madeline King has said that really A key proposal
in the Future Strategy being released on Thursday urges the
government to consider tough use it or lose it powers
that would compel energy giants to more swiftly develop gas
assets or risk losing their title holdings.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
I mean, Katie that we've got it here ready to go.

Speaker 5 (23:26):
Well, that brings in the big issue of sovereign risk. Now,
the Queensland government did that many many moons ago when
Pinochet over their head leases and they weren't doing what
they said they do And so isn't it with it
there's another word for it. Yeah, it's basically that you
hold the land to lock everyone else out. Now it's

(23:49):
it's not a bad concept when they're storing or whatever
would you say, real estating, thank you, that's the word
land banking. So but it brings the big issue of
sovereign risk. And when the Annual Phrase Institute puts out
their report, that's one thing that this country doesn't suffer from.
So from a national government, they've got to be very careful.

(24:10):
It's like reservation policies. They've got to be very careful
not to put us in that position, otherwise investors will
not come to our country.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
One of the questions I'm getting from the listeners for
the COLP is is the CLP if you are elected
are you going to make sure that the Northern Territory
is put first when it comes to gas and keeping
gas for us those reservations here for us first rather
than going off to other states.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Look, what we want to do is we want to
make sure that these people and these companies come to
the territory to do their spend their money and bring
the employees, bring all their workers with them ava so
that we can get some benefit out of it. And
we definitely need to get the gas here and get
it flying. Unfortunately, I know Kate just had a great
spell of house. You supported gas, but we're in our
eight years behind because of the labor government. Remember we
were ready to go and if.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
That supports gas, But the rest of the.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
ASMAS Matt said, they're they're out there on the last
week with any gas and the Chief Minister and I
think a few others were out there with in front
of it.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
So so with the CLP, are you going to make
sure that there's reserves for the Northern Territory.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Look, we're going to change. We are in rationing to
have the taxing works because it's about own source revenue.
So we want to make sure that they that they
pay their taxes so we get their own source revenue.
And whether it's weather, it's so confused.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
So that does that mean that you're going to keep
some for the NT.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
We're going to make sure that we keep enough the
tax for us so we can spend it in hospitals
and we can spend it.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
You don't think that some of that gas, some of
the should stay here. There should be a requirement like
in w A. I think it's we probably don't need
that much now.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
We don't need that much of it some of it,
so will the CLP reserves.

Speaker 8 (25:45):
So guess for domestic consumption we are.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Going to we're going to make sure we get our
own source revenue out of the tax and then we
can spend that money here.

Speaker 6 (25:52):
No, but that that is what about terror manifact?

Speaker 3 (25:55):
So Katie, I think we want to make sure that
it comes into here and it's ready to go.

Speaker 6 (26:00):
Ready, it's our gas, it's our gas.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Reservation policies by a state or territory of which we're
one is always a controversial and a very difficult subject
to have with industry. Clearly industry doesn't want to have
a reservation policy, and they fought really hard in WA
way back whenever. It's not to use the gas necessarily,
it's the gas to be there if you need it. Yeah,
Like it's not that we're going to tap in Tambarin's gas.

(26:26):
We need fifteen percent of your gas to come into
our pipelines. That's not what it's about. It's about using
the gas if you need to have the gas and
enable future developments to go ahead that require a lot
of energy. As I said, But it's something I mean
if I was the COLP, I half support reservation policy
and half not because of an industry perspective. But you

(26:46):
would go and talk with the industry and then the
question would be, has the Anti government in all their
discussions with Tambran talked about a reservation policy and have
they got a percentage in mind?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Well, and I think it is an expectation of audience
and I get it, like I get that.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
You know, it needs to be commercially viable for for
any company to do business with us here in the
Northern Territory Territorians gas reserve right right.

Speaker 7 (27:10):
We need gas here so that manufacturing and middle the
whole of Middle arm, those sorts of things need will
need gas here from the territory.

Speaker 6 (27:17):
This is our own resource.

Speaker 7 (27:19):
So you need to make sure that in any negotiations
that you have with gas companies, whether it's Empire, it's
tambourin any of those, that there's gas here for.

Speaker 6 (27:28):
That invites industry to come.

Speaker 7 (27:29):
So you want actually businesses into state to pick up,
pack up, come to the Northern Territory, base themselves here
because it's got cheaper energy.

Speaker 6 (27:36):
That's what's important.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Now.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Look, one of the other parts of the discussion throughout this.

Speaker 8 (27:39):
Week, do you support the gas industry?

Speaker 6 (27:44):
Absolutely?

Speaker 8 (27:45):
There just a highlight problem with your party because we
asked one of your colleagues.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Very different right, So what I'm saying is that.

Speaker 6 (27:57):
In the Labour Party you don't have everybody with the
same ideology.

Speaker 7 (28:00):
What matters is our positions that come out prior to elections,
positions that come out of cabinet.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
So but it does get like, it gets confusing for
voters then though, because they're getting told one thing when
they you know, when somebody knocks on their door or
they're getting.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Told, oh look, God don't.

Speaker 6 (28:15):
Really support it.

Speaker 7 (28:15):
But the policy actions is that in the recent deal
that we have done and negotiated with Tamboran that we
believe and that we've got gas here in the Northern
Territory and territory and should benefit. It provides us an
opportunity for an owned source revenue and that's so important
to us as a government. We need to be able
to step forward with that and have that courage in

(28:37):
partnership with the gas industry. But the bit that's really
missing here is what we've said is here are the guidelines.
And that's what the point You thought I was being
slicked before, but I'm going to say it again. Industry
like all of the parameters that we give them. They
like the guidelines they've got, they like the clarity, they
like the processes. They know that they've got to go
through the environmental processes and they're very very clear, and

(28:58):
that's why they like doing business of our labor government.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Matt.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
I'm just going to I guess, I guess the worry
for voters going into an election though, is that you
know is Will Will the Labor party that at the
moment has a chief Minute that's absolutely pro gas, pro resources.
But you know two years after the election, if Labour
won the election, is there going to be some factional
shift within Labor and suddenly they're going to be banning

(29:22):
every fossil new fossil fuel projects, shutting down Middle arm
you know, et cetera, et cetera. Because there are people
within your party, Kate, who are very much of that view.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Chief Minister in three in six months. So you're exactly
hitting the nail on the head because they changed quite
quick reguly with the c ORP.

Speaker 6 (29:40):
We are committee and one hundred your colleagues are, well,
we're doing right now. We're party gets locked in. You
can see the direction that we're going. Very clear.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
We'll keep moving because we're fast running out of time.
But Matt, I know that you have.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
You've got a story running I believe today that talks
about some of the situations that we've seen. I think
when you talk about the delays to some of these
major projects as well, and what feels like sometimes sort
of seagulls swooping in and you know, I guess, rejecting
some of the projects that we might be able to

(30:15):
get off the ground and having a huge impact then
to locals.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Yeah, there was a really interesting Darwin Mining Club lunch
yesterday that was hosted by Catherine Tillmouth, who is the
head of the Minerals Council of Australia here and we
heard from Ken Whyitet, the former Minister for Indigenous Australians,
Marian Scrimjer, the Labor MP and Wayne Bergman, who was
the CEO of the Kimberly Land Council Katie when the

(30:40):
James price Point development was put forward on the Kimberley coast,
and every one of those people spoke about their frustration
at activists coming in and basically hijacking Aboriginal people to
further their own cause.

Speaker 6 (30:57):
So for a long time, Matten definitely here in the two.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
And Wayne Bergman talked about the situation at James price Point.
He was the head of the Kimberly Land Council. He
had done six years of negotiation with the fifty four
different Aboriginal clan groups out there, fifty.

Speaker 8 (31:14):
Two of which had got on board with what they
were doing.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Negotiating with the WA government and with Woodside. He'd secured
a deal that was going to deliver one point four
billion dollars in benefits to those people.

Speaker 8 (31:27):
And then at the eleventh hour the.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
Activists got on board, sided with a couple of disgruntled
people and had that development stopped and just to quote him.
He said, the environmental groups and the media picked individual
people who were not happy and galvanized their views about
quote traditional owners say no, Well we had a vote.
There was three hundred traditional owners who turned up to

(31:51):
vote and sixty four percent voted yes. Marion Scrimser also
talked about the recent situation on the Tiwi Islands with
Santos and the Barossa project. She said it was with
some crankiness that I was watching certain people being called
tee wee elders and traditional owners and they had very
little connection to the Tiwi Islands. She went on and
said that she criticized the Greens and other environmental groups,

(32:13):
who she says, for their own means, will use Aboriginal
people to be able to run a narrative that for
the Eastern Seaboard feeds in really well, that Aboriginal people
don't want development and that Aboriginal people are.

Speaker 8 (32:25):
Against all of this. She said, that's just simply not true.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
How do you ever get to the point where where
this isn't an issue, because you know the majority of
Indigenous people if they're saying that they do want something,
but then it's getting hijacked by activists. That's a really
difficult scenario for any government or any organizations.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Discussed today as well was the process that has to
be done before any of these projects gets off the ground,
which is.

Speaker 8 (32:49):
A real consult.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
But Katie, this is not new. When the Jabaluka project
was trying to get developed, there were busloads of people
come up from down south and I am girlfriend down
there and her kids at university, and the notices went
up around the university at that time saying it's winter,
do you want to come to the Northern Territory for
a holiday. We need some protesters out at Jabluka and

(33:11):
her daughter took a photo and send it to the mum,
all that sort of stuff, So I know that's what happened.
Though those protesters out that Jabluka were not from the territory,
and the SAME's happened with, you know, some of the
people out at the Lee Point thing. When we've got
our own protesters, you know, we don't need your bloody help,
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
And that's I've got no issue with nothing with actual territory.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
They should be called out in the.

Speaker 8 (33:33):
Fraud that they are.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
And in the Santos case, you had a lawyer from
the Environmental Defender's Office and an academic from the University
of Western Australia who, according to the Federal Court judge,
manipulated and distorted the views of the Aboriginal people out there.
Marian Scrimmager called that out yesterday too. She said, to
have a university external to the Northern Territory mislead and
to provide information into the court about that has certainly

(33:57):
hurt a lot of the Tea we elders and my
mob and they come in and do this and then
there's been absolutely no consequence.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Kadi.

Speaker 8 (34:04):
That's for that university or that academic and it's.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
A uniform right, which is you know, university. They have
to be called out, that's the first things, for being
the frauds that they are. And also US territory people
getting fed up with these people from the Eastern Seaboard
who come up and want to protect the noble savages
because we can't do it. I'm using that as a quote.
That's what's been using a quote previously, like why are
they using Aboriginal people, as you said, Matt, for their

(34:29):
own cause, as if the original people don't have voices
of their own. Of course, they've got bloody voices of
their own.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
And one of the things that we want to make
sure they're for some certainty for business. So if you
get an approval, you've got an approval, it's done and
it's ready to go legal approval. And we're not saying
cut any corners with making sure you've got to follow
all the steps. But once you've got that approval, we
want to make sure because what happens to because they
don't do it and get that approval, then they go
and look for their final investment, then they get the investors.

(34:55):
Nothing worse than getting the approvals going and getting the
money to do it, and then coming back and have
to say, well what about this about that?

Speaker 6 (35:00):
Have you got executive that happened? Jaredy, you're just saying
that that you know you need.

Speaker 8 (35:04):
That that could happen.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Well, look at Santai. So we're giving approve, what about
the point that was approved and now hasn't. So there's
two examples. You see, there's two examples up and it
really goes to show that we're talking about Katie about
business certainty. Unfortunately they have a government they seem to
not have that. We need to make sure that business
keep We really need to make sure that businesses have

(35:26):
certainly in duty to do business, and we need to
make sure crime is under control, which.

Speaker 8 (35:30):
Is not whole it does.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
So the CLP is trying to sort of try, you know,
with you, with you policies that are now being announced
and leading to an election that business is front of mind.
I know that it was announced earlier in the week
tax cuts for small businesses as part of a major
election pitch ahead of territories heading to the polls. So intellected,
the CLP is going to raise the payroll tax free

(35:55):
threshold for the first time in thirteen years, from the
current rate of one point five to two point five
million dollars.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
What do we make of this announcement?

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Ultimately, it's a great dollars, a great an, It's a
great announcement for this business. Your opportunity, So this is
a great going.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
To let everybody calm down and give each other an
opportunity to speak, all right, Jared.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Okay, thank you. So that this is a great opportunity
for businesses in the Northern Territory to be able to
grow the business and expand the business. Because right now
we know that at one point five you've got to
start paying payroll tax, which is basically a tax on progress.
You can't get your business anymore than that because you
have to start paying. And that's a big impact on
business to what we want to do. And I don't
think it's been raised for some thirteen years. Labor government

(36:40):
has been in power for nineteen to that and they
haven't done anything. So we want to make sure years
we need this government to fail the business. So we
want to make sure that you can grow your business
here in Northern Territory. Because remember, the first thing I
want to do is get the crime on and control.
We want need the people to come here. We need
those workers to come here. But we also want to

(37:02):
make sure that these businesses have got an opportunity to
grow their businesses. And remember trainees and apprentices are exempt
because we want to make sure that they grow their
own trainees here in our own apprentices. So if you're
a young fellow or a young lady and you want
to get in there, you can go and go and
get a job. It's not going to affect the tax
that these businesses.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
It is going to be I mean it is going
to be costly, like fifty odd million times to be
able to do it.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Forty three is it?

Speaker 2 (37:24):
But well, let's you know, forty three fifty two, I
mean there's quite a big however, holding the is it
actually a move in the right direction in terms of
business confidence? I mean we spoke to the to the
Chamber of Commerce yesterday. This is something that they said
was on their wish list.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
So let's be really clear.

Speaker 7 (37:41):
If it's been in for thirteen years, then the Coop
government were in for four of those years. The last
time around they didn't change it, So Rich what were
you doing in that four years that you didn't change
it then. But the other thing is that one point
five we are equal second highest in terms of threshold
in the nation, so we've already got a high threshold
and this will create a fifty two million dollar hole

(38:02):
in the budget. So my question to Jared is what
are you going to do to fill the hole in
the budget of fifty two million dollars? And we saw
before let me finish because you made me question, so yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
We do know.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
I'll tell you what you can do.

Speaker 7 (38:16):
Your sack teacher, sacked nurses, You'll sack all the frontline
officers that you did last time, because we know that.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
When they have a hole in their budget what they
do with sack people.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
What about the ad there's a whole.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
They don't even have a very.

Speaker 6 (38:33):
Big hole in their bucket, and they're going to sack
people in.

Speaker 4 (38:36):
Order to Anybody's a really relevant point here though, right,
because if you're talking about the budget situation, like the
biggest train on the budget, the public is the public service,
and the only way we can fix it long term
is to move people out of public sector jobs and
into private sector jobs, and not nurses and teachers and police.
That's because of the public service that works in administration

(39:01):
and management roles, according to the Langolant.

Speaker 8 (39:03):
Report, and it's a massive problem that no one wants
to deal with.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
The way the only way to deal with the long
term structural problem is to move people out of public
sector work and into private sector work. And to do
that you need well paid private sector jobs. So the
payroll tax change is perhaps one way of doing it.
I see all of the opposition that's come out straight
away about the plan for the stadium with the AFL team,

(39:29):
but you think about what's being spent here, seven hundred
million bucks or whatever that they're talking about with the stadium,
with which the NT would probably pay a third in
a deal with the federal government and the a f L.
So you're talking about maybe two hundred and fifty million bucks. Well,
we spent that much money on the Palmerston Hospital, which
has just delivered us an ongoing cost burden.

Speaker 8 (39:47):
That continues and continues and continues and gets worse every year.
We needed.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
We need.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
To make sure we are not going to at any
public jobs. What we're going to do is make it
attrack them in private enterprise to be able to those
people come across. We're going to generate so there is
going to be an opportunity for these people who are
enterprise if they choose to to come across it. And
we're going to make sure business has got Certainly we're
going to grow the private enterprise to be able to
bring these people. We want to empower the public service.

(40:18):
We want to make sure they do a great job.
We want to make sure they're going to do they've
got some no to we want to make sure they've
got you, they've got the power, they've got the decision,
they've got the support to make decisions and move forward. Look,
you want to make sure that there's some business were today.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Get cut a very quick break because I cannot end
the morning without you guys talking about Holts. So we're
going to have to take a very quick break. You
are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
But I tell you what, we can't wrap up this
morning without talking about the situation with the Northern Territory government.
Obviously some of the budget commitments flowing through this week
ahead of next week's budget being handed down, and two
hundred million dollars is going to be invested in the
budget to get more land ready for new.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Housing and developments.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
So Darwin's next residential land release has reached another milestone.
The Chief Minister sees announcing the developer for the Holts
and land release is Holtz Land Company Pty Ltd. So
that's the developer for Holts. I mean five hundred and
fifty lots is what we're being told is going to
be established within the first tranch of the development, with

(41:24):
the wider urban development known as the Greater Holtz Area,
having the potential to service eleven thousand.

Speaker 5 (41:30):
And that's where people they get interviewed. They got people
thought in Finnish it wasn't explained properly. The eleven thousand
is proposed for Holts and co Ownder, which as you
go down the Howd Springs Road, it's the land on
the left that Defense still owns. And the government knows
this because I've done questions on notice and it's not
Department of Defense owns now, it's Department of Finance at
the Commonwealth level and the government if they want that land,

(41:53):
we'll have to buy it. And it's about two in
old terms two thousand acres, having many hectares, that is,
it's a big chunk of land and a big land
that needs servicing. But the Holtz land is the land
behind and around the Lichfield Hospital, which is located in
the Litchfield Council Litchfield Hospital.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
The Palmerston region.

Speaker 8 (42:14):
It's the Palmestan campus of the Royal Darland Hospital Spinatie.

Speaker 5 (42:20):
The problem, the problem, I mean, I mean it's going
to happen one way or the other's going to happen.
But what my concern has been as a resident nearby,
and clearly I've got a vested interest, is every time
we have had a meeting with the public servants and
the consultants who are meant to communicate things to us
in this case very badly. Uh is they keep changing?
First of all, it was going to be one hectare lots.

(42:41):
Then there was going to be a two hundred meter
buffer between any development and my neighbors. And now we
find out there's a bit big bloody transmission line going
through that buffer which is shrunk. Then we also find
out that there's going to be major sewerage lines going
down the Taylor Road residents, which means land clearing, which
means disturbance. And I get it those kind of things
that needed. These are needed, but the transmission line is

(43:02):
going nowhere. And we asked them, they said, it's just
therefore now we'll take it away in seven years time.
Who's going to remember in seven years time that they
should take away a transmission line on my neighbour's back door.
And that's what they said at the community.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
I think I agree with it's going to go ahead,
but it needs to make sure it's in line with
community expectation, and community expectation is not another little so
coldly you know, one road down. We need to make
sure that it's in the rural area. I need to
stay in the rural areas. I want to get that clear.
But it needs to be a development which has got
to rural feel to it.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
So the other thing is there's there's an escarpment that
runs through that land and it's also a creek. Now
they cannot be developed upon. That's the first thing. There's
also those titanium plants and they did say they've set
aside a piece of land. I said, well, why don't
you build, why don't you commit to adell? I know
this Titanian it's a little plant thingy that's rare and endangered.
I know we're not doing adell because of the plant,

(43:55):
but we'll develop holes. We don't care about the plant
it holes, So you know, it just doesn't make sense.
So ad a piece of land to protect it, but
couldn't tell us how they're going to protect these little
precious plants. And they are special, you know, And so.

Speaker 7 (44:07):
We are.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
We're going to have to We're gonna have to get
ready to take a break, but very quickly before I do.
And should I mean should it fall under this development
under the Palmerston City Council or set up with.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
This bloody discussion. Just piss off Palmerston.

Speaker 7 (44:23):
This is.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Wonderful parliston listeners that list to.

Speaker 5 (44:29):
The field Council has the land in its boundaries. They're
quite capable of servicing it. We've got small blocks at Coolinger,
we've got units at Coolinger, we've got small blocks at
Howard Springs, small blocks and developments that humpt you do.
They are very capable. The fact that they might be
a flat rate system, that's what annoys Parmesan Council because
they are on unimproved capital value and flat rate is
what literal councils want.

Speaker 8 (44:50):
We should stay.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
I'm just backing that up. I agree completely.

Speaker 7 (44:52):
Yeah cause you do, Jared, because your candidate for that
area is on the council.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
The Literal Council.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Declared that the contact of interest divisions.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Let's take a really quick break for before we wrap
up for the morning. You are listening to Mix one
O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Well, i'll tell you what.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
We've run out of time in this hour and it's
been a busy morning it always is in here. We've
got in the studio on a big thank you to
Jered Mayley, the Deputy Opposition leader for joining us today.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Thanks, thank you listeners.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you as always for
your time this morning. Thanks Wolfe and Kesier Puric, the
Member for Goida, the Independence Member for Goida.

Speaker 6 (45:30):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
And Happy Mother's Day on Sunday. You're a mother, You're
a mother.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Happy Mother's Day to all the wonderful moms.

Speaker 5 (45:36):
Happy Mother's Day to yess. Happy matter's lightly.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Absolutely yes.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
And Kate Warden, thank you so much for your time
this morning. Minister for Various Portfolios.

Speaker 7 (45:49):
And Kate Warden this morning and my own identity yes,
I would also say the same about Mother's Day.

Speaker 6 (45:55):
Also, get people get don't forget the Mother's Day classics. Yeah,
go out. That's for a really good cause.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Jesus.

Speaker 6 (46:01):
Every day should be Mother's Day commercial every day it
should be Mother's Day Wedday.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
I love Father's Day as well. Thank you all so
very much for your time this morning. You are listening
to three six. It is the week that was