Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, I am Paula Benett and welcome to my New
Zealand Herald podcast Ask Me Anything.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
One thing I've learned in life is it's never too
late to learn something new. So on this podcast, I've
talked to people from all walks of life to hear
about how they got to where they are and get
some advice and guidance on some of life's biggest questions.
On the podcast today, I'm joined by award winning journalist
and broadcaster Susie Ferguson. Susie has had a very interesting career.
(00:38):
Born in Scotland, trained in the UK, she has reported
and presented news all over the world. She became a
war correspondent, reporting from both Iraq and Afghanistan. Susie moved
to New Zealand in two thousand and nine and is
now best known as a host on Radio New Zealand.
Susie's written about her life and career in a book,
Bloody Minded, War, woman Hood and Finding My Voice.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
So sy welcome, Kyota, thank you. It's great to have
you here. It's lovely to meet you in person as well.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We were staging. We've only even talked.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
We've talked, we've talked, You've interviewed me, and then it's
so it's voice to voice, yeah, and meeting face to face.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Do you get recognized by your voice?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes. The good thing about radio is it's kind you're
kind of incognitive until you open your gob and say something,
and it's a very personal medium. Yes, and so I
guess you. You know, you talk to people like with podcasts,
you talk to people when they're in the bath or
in bed, or in the kitchen or on the toilet.
(01:42):
But you also talk to people in their cars. And
so that's usually the giveaway. If I get in a
cab and say something and you can just see the
way that someone's spine just slightly stiffens because they're listening.
You can see their ears slightly turned and they're how
many we listen to her? Is it's in the back
of the cab because recognize the voice.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
But it is as you say, you know, like like
I carry you, I carry you with me in my
ears on a Saturday morning.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Guys, I'm doing my chores walking your dog. Yeah, yeah,
quite literally.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay, quick fig questions if you could if you go
to the pub for a drink with any celebrity, who
would it be.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh see.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I find this so hard because partly because I'm spoiled
on Saturday morning, because I get to talk to all
sorts of amazing people all the time, but also because
some of the people who are the most interesting and
who are unexpectedly the people that I really want to
spend time to and talk to, are not people that
I would have picked. I wouldn't have guessed, But I
(02:48):
was thinking about this over the weekend and I kind
of have to say, damn, Maggie Smith.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, because she was.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
A power and for so long, I must have seen
so much.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And they say she was quite directed down the real
wet and that you could see it in her.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I think she would have been amazing to go to.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Imagine if you got her in Dame Judy d She's
got the sparkle in her eye on the wet as well, and.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
You wouldn't get a word in Edgeway. It's probably, but
that be all right. You just watch watch What would
your favorite drink? Bee? Ah?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I mean, you can't go past a glass of salve,
but you know, I'm not fussy.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, it's good to go. Okay, you swore you'd need.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
To write a book and never never write a book,
never climb everest, never on a marathon, and I'm not
doing the other two.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You are, I'm not doing the other two.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You could do a Kierie woem and decide didn't want
to a marathon at fifty I don't want to do
my knees.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Wouldn't know that's not going to happen. So why the book? Then?
Why the book? Why the book? Well?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I did a podcast interview, funnily enough, and it was
off the back of that that a couple of publishers
got in touch. So who knows what happens when you
do podcast interviews. Lots of people have said to me, oh,
you try that down for the years, I guess with
various bits and.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Pieces that have happened.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And when I kind of I began having the sort
of conversations with the publishers and I sort of thought,
you know, there's maybe something here around the health stuff.
But also there's maybe something here around war, because you
get sort of war memoirs which is all about the
(04:32):
gunfights or the rockets landing, or the mindes that go
off and all the kind of all the violence of war,
and there is plenty of violence in war, but also
I experienced war as a very young rookie war reporter
(04:52):
with three weeks notice and suspected entimetriosis, which I guess
most people at the frontline didn't have.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
No So it was a way I guess, of looking.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
At an experience that I think we kind of we
know about that in our public consciousness, it's in the movies,
it's in the books, but looking at it from a
different standpoint, I guess, three different lens.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So you had a story in you that you want
to that in the end, you thought this should be
written down and it might be read.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I guess so.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
And I've certainly I've had friends and family, and but
I kind of think family are just being nice when
they say, oh, you should write that down. But more
and more people had over the years said to me,
I think I think this maybe something here.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You maybe have a gul My family say, don't write
a box by.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I know I've been asked lots of times in my family.
My gardner in front, oh maybe you do. I think
it sounds like you do. Cry. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So the book's called Bloody Minded, which I love, but
you and you are quite bloody minded. So do you
think that determination like you've got You talk about your
parents a lot only child, do you think that gets
you know, you were around adults a lot, and you
say it in the book, so that adult company, you know,
did that give you a sort of a sense of
(06:14):
determination as well?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I don't know. I don't know where the determination comes from.
I mean both my parents are very focused, determined people,
high achieving, high achieving, unquestionably, but that doesn't necessarily mean
that their kids would be. Yes, I wonder if I've
(06:39):
always not by everybody. But I think a lot of
people underestimate women, and I think that got my backup.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, very so.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Was there is there a sense that you wanted to
prove people wrong? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
There have definitely been times where you look back and
you think, Okay, I'm not going to come out on
top in this one.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yet, but I can wait. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
And you and as you've gotten older, do you still
feel that sense of having to prove yourself?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Probably a bit less so now, But I think a
lot of things. I think a lot of things change
with menopause. Right, you see a little monal crazy roller
coaster settles down a bit, You kind of You've got
a wealth of experience that no one can take away
(07:35):
from you. Yeah, and people probably know who you are,
what you're stand for, what you can do, which is
not to say that you then take your foot off
the gas and relax, but.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
You become more of a non quantity.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I don't have to prove myself anymore. I did it
for years and it drove me. It was a really
good driver. Yeah. I quite liked being underestimated. Yes, because
while you're under estimating me, I'm getting on with her exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
It's a little I think it's a bit of a
kind of secret superpower.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, in a way it can be. But now I
don't give a damn.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
For you, Deputy Prime Minister. I think in my head
when you're under estimates again or well, exactly, So I'm
moving to New Zealand. So you had what paternal green Yeah,
my dad's my dad was born here, yeah, and his
mother and grandfather.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, And so you came to visit and then moved.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I mean I wasn't quite that quick, I know, but
it's a massive I mean I've always had huge admiration
for people that sort of take that leap. I must
say as much for refugees and those people that are
just coming with nothing. My goodness, I just can't even
get feather in my head.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
But even with you six months old, baby, Yeah, it
was it wasn't a great decision looking back on it. Now,
do'll move to the other side of the world with
the six month or but then when is it a
good time?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I mean, it was quite a strange experience coming here
for the first time, which was on holiday and three
years before we actually moved, and walking into places where
lots of things were familiar to me, whether it was
voices or food or the way people talked, and my
(09:23):
husband not way it wasn't my husband then, but my
partner not guessing that at all, and me saying to him, oh, look,
looks ginger crunch, and they were like, what's ginger crunch?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, why how can you not know what ginger crunch is?
How can you not know what a melting moment is?
Did your granny not have them in your tins in
the pantry?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
No?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Oh, that's just me.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Oh And suddenly I had this thing fell into place
now like oh it's New Zealand. Yeah, that's what's been
that thing in the back of my mind, in the
back of my childhood and my growing up that I
just thought it was my granny.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
But it wasn't just my granny. It was New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
It was.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So totally Let's talk a bit about being a war
correspondent because you were Yang. I was young, yeah, early
twenty five, Yeah, twenty five, that is Yang, Particularly when
you look back at it, you know, at the time
you sort of thought you were, you know, a superwoman
and you knew everything.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You look back me and you just go, I was
a child.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, yeah, but terrifyingly gout. A lot of the fighting
men there were younger than me. Yeah, which looking back
now just feels, you know, there were eighteen year olds there.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So it wasn't you planning to be a war correspondent,
was it? Absolutely not?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
No, No, I went I went to drama school, and
then I went to do a postgrad in broadcast journalism.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
And the first day.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Doing the postgrad and the tutor said, right, who here
wants to be a war correspondent? And about half the
class put their hand up and I wasn't one of them.
And the woman sitting next to me wasn't one of
them either, and out of everyone in the class, I
know that we're two people who did end up producing
reporting presenting from from war zone.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
No.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I wanted to be an arts correspondent, but I wanted
to see stuff about theater and music and dance and
visual arts and all these kinds of things, and not
at all it ended up being the war choose me.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
But then, isn't that part of the wonderful advice that
you say of your mother, which is, and I'm probably
paraphrasing badly, but as you know, say yes and then
work it out, work it out later. Yeah, And so
when asked you just see yes and then walked away.
I hear, yeah, exactly, because you have to. So that
lots of things have taught me about my mum.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Absolutely never plan anything to stringently that you miss the
opportunity nice it falls into your lap. Because I'm not
a planner. I know lots of people are really big
on their five year plans, are ten year plans. I'm
just not one of those people. I kind of look
around and see what's happening. And her advice was always
just keep your eyes open because you don't know what's
(11:51):
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And if you do rigid, you won't see you riggid.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You'll be like, no, no, on my five year plan,
that's not what I meant to be doing. And so
that was I think that was really great advice. And
then also from mum, but also from drama school and
various other bits of my life. Always say yes, like
can you roller skates?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I mean right now today, No, but I can learn,
because that's the thing. You can always learn stuff. You
can always upscale. YouTube is there for a reason, and
it's not just to fall down a rabbit hole, you know.
It's like you can learn all sorts of amazing things
and be all sorts of different things and back yourself
because if you say yes, you can always say no
later if you really need to back out.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
But war zone is quite different, to be fear, And
so what year did you go in?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Because it's two.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Thousand and three, Yeah, it was the invasion. It was
very different twenty one years ago. Not many women no,
you know, like just I mean, I know it's obviously
completely different now, but even.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
The way that we thought was and what it looked like.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Was very different than what it was, and we weren't
seeing it on social media feeds the way that we
do now.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
No.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I mean you did see it obviously on news reports,
but not like scrolling through Instagram.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah you can know. Were you terrified?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
No, And I don't quite know why I wasn't terrified, because,
especially having written all down, I kind of think maybe
I should have been a little bit terrified. I wasn't terrified.
I was immensely curious. I was very interested in having
(13:27):
the experience of it and doing it and seeing what
it was like. It was something I never, in my
wildest dreams thought I would do, and sot to be offered.
It felt like it was too good an opportunity to
pass up. But then when you end up living out
the back of a tank for three guys in the
(13:48):
desert who you've never met before, and you're surrounded by men,
to say it's an austere environment is an understatement. It's
it's a pretty hard landing. But also it was an
enormously you know, everything about that experience was extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, But then isn't it fascinating?
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And that really you said you could cope with war,
but it was being back hoim a normal life that
you straggled most with.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, yeah, I could cope with bombs going off around me.
There was one time it's actually not I don't think
it's in the book, but there was one time I
went to Iraq and every night there were rockets being
fired that you could hear them landing all around where
we were sleeping. And at the time, there were these
things called Baghdad beds, which were sort of like a
bunk bed, except it wasn't a bed on the top.
(14:43):
It was just basically a ceiling to stop so that
there's something landed, it wouldn't land directly on you. And
most people had Baghdad beds, except I didn't have one
of them, and so I was just I was in
a like a porta cabin type thing that I was in,
but the the rockets were still kind of landing all around,
and so basically you were getting new sleep at all.
(15:05):
But then I would come home and get stuck in
traffic in London and be, you know, unconsolably trying just
in bits because I was going to be ten minutes.
Led to an appointment, Yeah, and that was the point
that I was like, oh, yeah, I think's the problem here,
something going on.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
We're going to talk more about the health because I
think that's the you know, that's really the advice part
of this podcast because we've I've got so many questions
and I know that we can help so many people,
so that's what we've got to do. But it's the humanity, right,
So not just the humanity of war, the Boxing Day tsunami,
you know, like seeing people at their most vulnerable just
(15:46):
must have been you know, and you do feel it, right, Yeah,
you're that person though you're supposed to be a hard
nosed journalist.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
And you are, and you have to try to view
it with impartiality. But at the same time, when you're seeing,
as you say, humanity when it has been ripped apart
and where your level of helping is by bringing the
(16:15):
world's attention to something, it's still very difficult because that's
not necessarily how you're seen by the people on the ground.
They see you as the way out for their children,
or they see you as someone who can they can
directly appeal to to specifically help them, and you're simply
not in a position to do that. I found some
(16:39):
of the disaster recovery incredibly hard to watch, both the
Boxing Day tsunami and the Pakistan earthquake, which happened almost
well within the same of a year, and it was very
hard to try to make sense of that and two
(17:03):
make it make sense.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But then you see the best of people, right, those
that come through, those that are rescuing, make shifting and
doing everything that's that it has to happen, right, And.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
That's what I will say to my kids whenever they
watch news and they see something upsetting, I will say
to them, look for the rescuers, Look for the helpers.
There are always people you can see who are doing
the helping. Yeah, because that's how recovery happens. Okay, so
you are you loving Saturday mornings? I am loving Saturday mornings.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
It sounds great and you just get to make such
interesting people.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Fabulous people, absolutely extraordinary people. And it's so nice to
not get up at four o'clock in the morning and
fight with politicians every morning.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Because it is it's a battle. It's a battle. Yeah,
it is a battle.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It's a battle and more ways than one though, but
it's you know, because it's a battle when you're on air,
and it's very as you know, adversarial, but it's a
battle against your own body, which is screaming at you, going,
what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Geting up before in the morning? Again? What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, yeah, this is great. It is crazy.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
The book is dedicated to the Lamases.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's an in joke with my kids. I like it.
I can't. They didn't.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
I didn't want them to be named, and so I
couldn't write it to them with their names.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Ah, so it's an in joke.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I did notice that you didn't name new children, and
I thought, why are you just taking it a little
bit of privacy for them?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Well, you know, they can decide what they want to
do when they're grown ups with my stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
But no, I agree with one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, but it's hard, isn't it when you've you know,
you know, I had one of my children to do
well just before I started on Morning Reports. So they've
kind of always been part of this journey. But so
they're allowed to have their privateg Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree,
one hundred percent. Yeah, hundred percent. My stepdaughter was in
so different name, you know, all of it. And when
she was an intermediate school, you know, another twelve year
(19:08):
old handed her a notion it was from his mother
to give to me to tell me how awful I am,
and I just went my twelve year old doesn't have
to put up with it. It's school that's horrible. It
was horrible, really horrible.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So we just seen her.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
We just gave her her privacy and yeah, send her
to a different school.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Do you handle something like that? I don't know how you.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I obviously am not still handling that one these I
don't care what people say own.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And think about me. It was just that's my girl,
you know. And she's twelve.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, you know, and that's such a vulnerable age, as
we know, because you know, and so it's like, yeah,
there's some weird things that.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Go on out.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, but no I admire Sure, well I quite like
the Lamas. Then I'll take it. I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I did wonder if and Woe would ask me about that,
but I was like, nah, I feel like this is
the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Got it on you.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Okay, Well, when we come back, we're going to chat
to end and living in a man's World.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I want to talk a little bit about that as well.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Okay, I am right back with Susie Ferguson, and we're
your book, Bloody Minded deals with a lot right. So first,
I mean, my goodness, your health from what about the
age of thirteen when your period started? And I know
I've read that it takes like seven years on average
for someone to get diagnosed with ENDO, and that's just staggering, right,
(20:39):
and this day and age, and it's still happening, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, And it's.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Still in your mind and you're fine, and it's womanly
problems and yes, you're gonna bleed and that's just the
way life is.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
It's all part of being a woman.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And your dad was a doctor toad, Yeah, yeah, it's
what to see. I mean, I think it's probably hard
when you're first getting a periods because you know, they're
a bit all over the show, and sometimes they're light,
sometimes they're heavy, and sometimes they're painful and sometimes they're not.
(21:11):
And you know, it takes a while for all that
kind of stuff to sort of settle down. And lots
of people have funny periods or bad periods or sore periods,
but not everyone has ENDO. I guess maybe I don't
know the problem is that the main way I think
still for it to be diagnosed is not through scans
or tests, but it's about surgeon getting eyes on in
(21:34):
an operating theater when often it's a laparoscopy, So that's
where it's like keyhole surgery to have a look in
and it's a camera having a look at your insides,
and so that's not a first line of diagnosis for anybody.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I thought they might have seen it when you hit
that first surgery for the cyst.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, did you think that?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Because you know, and so you're desisted on ovary yeah,
right and variance yeah, and they have been causing a
lot of the pain that you'd been having. You describe
it as potentially twisting around, that sort of thing. So
when I read later on about the ENDO, I was like, oh, well, one,
they did look inside you. They did look inside me.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And it's kind of funny looking back on that and
having written the book, because I look back.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
On that now and think, was the end or not there?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Or did they not see it or were they not
looking for it or did they not look in the
right places. I don't know, because by the time I
was then back under the knife eight years later, it
was there. It was on my bowels, it was on
my bladder, it was on my ovary like it was
on the EXI it's on my filopian tube. But you know,
there was seemingly quite a lot of it. But this
(22:42):
is one of the other strange things about ENDO that
you can have lots of it that can be seen
and almost no pain, yeah, or lots of pain, or
you can have almost none and a huge amount of pain.
So I guess, you know, I don't know, maybe they
just missed it, maybe they weren't looking for it, but
it does seem odd that, yeah, they actually bothered opening
(23:03):
me up and didn't find anything.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
So if you had, you know, if we had a
teenager or you know, a young woman in a early
twenties and she is in pain and is then what
are her options now?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So is it really not a test that you can
take wellout them going in because it's a lining as
you described it, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So it's the stuff that's similar to the lining of
your uterus that grows outside your uterus, Okay, often in
the pelvic area, so like your lower abdomen. But also
I've been told by ENDO specialists that they've found endometriosis
in people's lungs, in people's brains, but they don't really
know how it gets there. So I think it's an
(23:48):
awful lot not known short answer in terms of advocacy
and what to do. There are some really good resources
out there and demetriosis New Zealand is a really good
one stop shop that's got a bunch of resources there.
Keep going to your doctor, try to get in front
of a gynecologist. There are things that can be done
to lessen the pain. Things like marina IUDs can be
(24:13):
pretty useful in that sort of route. So there are
definitely things that can be done before you actually get
seen by a surgeon. I think there are some or
I've heard of some new ultrasound machines and specialists that can, Okay,
begin they're beginning to go down that route. I don't
(24:33):
know if we can do that in New Zealand. I
do have a friend who's been diagnosed that way in London.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
But I think you just have to.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Keep banging your head against the brick wall and someone
like you talking about it. You have to keep talking
about it because there's so many people that this affects. Yeahs,
you know one and ten and we don't you'll know,
you know, you'll know people who have that.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, absolute sisters or or you know, cousins or friends whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Not very much.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
So yeah, yeah, and watch that pain and thought it
was in the head. But when you're a war correspond
you're saying you're taking up to fifteen painkillers a day.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, And was it just to get through? Yeah? I
took that every day. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
It was a kind of opioid that I think you
don't get now, which probably isn't a good Yeah. I
was prescribed to take that for years on end because
there was nothing else.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And do they believe you were in pain? I as
seem so.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Yeah, And I guess you don't prescribe people opioids for
years on end without thinking that, but not enough I
guess to actually prioritize me being diagnosed.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, so you know in the end, it's not the
end end, but when And as part of it as well,
you try to have a hysterectomy, big decision, it's a
big operation, and you tried to go public about it, Yes,
I yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
It was about seven years ago now, seems amazing. I
chose to go public about it for a bunch of reasons,
partly because I didn't feel had ending to be ashamed
about just a bit of mine, asked me that was
not working desperately well, and it takes six weeks to recover.
(26:11):
So I was going to be off Morning Report for
quite a long time. And so I thought, rather than
it just being this void, why not tell the story,
you know arn Zz's storytelling organization, why not tell our
own story. But also because it was the last chance
saloon for me. I'd had previous surgery for endo. I'd
(26:32):
gone into you know, I could feel it coming back,
and I'd ended up back in Wellington Hospital and had
an examination which I have to say was one of
them was painful, unexpectedly painful examinations in my life.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Nothing to do with the doctor.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
She was fantastic, but it was just, yeah, my uterus
was past it. And you know, I was told at
that point, you know, you'll have a we'd like to
offer you a hysterrite to me on the public service.
It'll happen within four months. It actually happened within two
(27:11):
and it was a big decision in some ways, but
also in others it wasn't at all, you know, I
I it was only after I'd signed the consent form
that I said to the doctor. Oh, actually I don't
want any more children. But I think it was just
for me. It was just I had to I had
(27:31):
to make it stop. Like I couldn't do it anymore.
I couldn't, you know. I was Bill English, I think
was the I think bl English was the Prime Minister
at that point. And you know, it's like, I can't
I can't keep interviewing Bill English while I've got sweat
breaking out on me because I'm in so much pain.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, this is ridiculous. You're screaming with pain and yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And and so I actually made it was a very
easy decision in the end, but in some respects it's
an empowering operation and empowering decision because you're you're claiming
your body. Absolutely, you're claiming your future. Yeah, because I mean,
it wasn't going to get better on the zone. No,
it wasn't going to get better by itself. I had
(28:15):
to do something. I could have had laparoscopy. There were
other complications going on as well though that we didn't
know about until it was out, so probably it was
going to have to come out anyway, And being able
to make that decision was.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Possibly for the first time in.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
This whole soaka of having endo, which I've probably had
ever since I was a teenager. It was really the
first time that I was able to, hopefully in a
permanent way, put an end to it. And I mean
a hysterectomy is not necessarily a cure. It is for
some people. It I think it was for me, probably thankfully,
(28:58):
and it was life changing, life changing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Can I also like just so much respect.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
For you talking about, you know, having your first child
and what we're expected it to be and everything else
in the reality of it being kind of frunny and
you had health problems then as well.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But it's not all.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
It's not all bows and sunshines and you know, yeah,
I mean I was young. But whether that's relevant or not,
but I hated breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I was that's terrible. I hated it. I just got.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I well, I felt like I couldn't do it. And
I don't know whether I don't know how much was
that I couldn't do it and that I was in
so much pain doing it, and how much was that
my milk wasn't coming in because as you say, you know,
there were various health complications. But the thing that the
thing that I really hated more than anything else, was
(29:55):
that there was no kind of There was no line
of help, There was no WHO.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Safety net to catch you.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
This is in the UK that there was no There
were breastfeeding counselors, but if you couldn't get an appointment
with one, then too bad. And there was no assumption
that you were trying to do your best. The automatic
assumption was you were neglecting your child. And so I
was basically accused of neglecting my child twice before he
(30:26):
was ten days old.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
And you talk about it, which nearly destroyed You talk
about and it really resonated with me. Was I just
kept expecting this knock on the door and then taking
my baby?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I was. I gene you up for years.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Really, I assumed that my child was going to be
taken away from you, which is why I didn't say
anything about the fact that I then kind of broke
and nearly fell apart, because if I told them that,
then they really would take my kid away.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
When when my daughter was three months old she had
to go to hospital respiratory, I thank account she's really
see one for growing up now. Sorry, I think it
was you, but I just I was a mess, like
beside myself a mess.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
No, I knew she was going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I just thought it was neglect and that this is
when they're gonna pull me up and take the baby. Yeah,
it's frightening. So yeah, I just thought it was a nice,
real account. And I don't think we'd give that enough.
We've got a soldier on and we've got a cope,
and we are the mums, and you know, and next
where it's ends just like, well sometimes we're not.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
And we talk about how it takes a village to
raise a child, but where's the village?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, and if you.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Pay to have the village come to you, then society
will judge you in another way.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
It's like the the I don't even think it's a
double bind. It's like a triple bind. And the assumption that,
you know, when I was doing everything I could think
of and it still wasn't good enough, and the assumption
(32:02):
that you're neglecting your child was I mean, I felt
under siege in a way that I don't think I
ever have before or since.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And then there's that guilt as well.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I mean, you talk about having miscarriages and then you're
blessed with this pregnancy and this baby, and it's just like, well,
shouldn't I be you know, the heaviest. And women talk
about that with abortion as well, you know, like it's
years later they then go on having childbyuth and it's
just like, well, there's women out there that want more
than anything in life, and I've made these other decisions
(32:31):
and so we just keept a bit wrapped with it
all in our own heads if we let.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Us Yeah, yeah, And I think that's really it's really valid,
because you do you do think that you should be
grateful and you should be loving every minute. Yeah, and
when you're hating every minute, it's a it's a very
hard sort of circled square.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Look, you start the book talking about going to the
toilet in a war zone, and I just want to
touch you know, briefly before we get to the end.
But you know, on that being in such a male
dominated environment as a woman, and you would have been
treated differently as a woman, and sometimes bitter, I imagine
as well. You know, it's not necessarily I'm not saying
(33:17):
everyone was, you know, because sometimes you talk about some
of the respect that you were showing, and it sounds
to me like good men. Yeah, you know, genuinely good
men that were looking out for you.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
But was it and I don't know if it's intimidating
the right word, but it just must have been.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
There was a lot of testosterone around.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
You. Oh, there's a lot of testosterone around And there
are people who, uh, you know, you say to them, so,
you know, what do you reckon to being an Iraq?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
You know?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
And these are even from my twenty five year old
eyes at the time, children, yeah, who are just like, oh, yeah,
I can't waits fire are my gun?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Which you're like, oh, that's quite confronting.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, And there were some incredibly good men and the
vast majority see if them were incredibly good men. But
also they were men who were amped up to fight
a war, because that's that's how you get people to
fight a war is by a mop. And so inevitably
it was a pretty matchal as you say, testosterone and
(34:14):
fueled environment that you're living in and bleeding in. It's
a circumstance which you're trying not to be a burden,
because you kind of are a burden when you're you know,
they don't need to be watching their back as well.
But suddenly they've put someone else to look after, which
is not what they need. Someone else to feed, someone
else to find somewhere to you know, have bed down
(34:34):
for the night.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So you are a pain, but you don't want to
be too much of a pain. But at the same time,
it is it is a complex set of relationships that
you end up having in that circumstance, and very intense.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Do you think it will have changed now?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
With more women, there'd be more women journalists, the reporters,
there'd be more, there'd be a woman fighting.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
There are women fighting now, I believe in the infantry,
which yeah, there absolutely weren't at the time that I
was there in Iraq, and actually right across my time
as a war reporter. I'm sure it will have changed
the bits. But then, you know, I went through a
medical before I was sent and I was told to
take the pill back to back because would stop me bleeding,
(35:18):
and so so I guess that's that's the fix, right,
But then if the fix doesn't work and you only
find that out when you're in the desert on the
makeshift toilet, it's kind of too late by then.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, you just have to get on with that. Yeah,
there's no sanitary items that any know. You've got rid
of nome.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Yeah, you've thrown them away because you didn't have room
to carry them, so you prioritize taking your painkillers instead.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
So you just have to I do and get on.
Would you So, would you advise a woman to go absolutely? Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (35:50):
What an experience? What an experience? But also why would
you want to Why would you want to curtail yourself?
Why would you not want to give yourself every opportunity
live the biggest life you can?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Absolutely? Okay to finish this segment.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Then, because you've got some pillars in the book, I
must say I'm quite love with them. But I would
like to know what was the best advice you've been given?
And it doesn't sem to be the best, but you've
had some good advice. Well you had a good Ma'm right, Yeah,
I've got a good mom. I've got a good mom.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, always say yes, Always back yourself, look for the opportunity,
and that might just pass you by if you're not
careful enough to catch all of it as it goes.
One that's actually not in the book, but I think
it's a great piece of advice. You know, we're always
(36:43):
juggling all the time, juggling all the balls in the
airwork and family and career and life and your dog
and all the things. And sometimes it feels like there
are too many balls. Decide what the balls are made of,
because some of them are made of gold ass and
you've got to catch those ones. But some of them
are made of rubber, and they'll bounce and somebody else
(37:06):
will catch them.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Oh, I'm gonna like that one. So and they can change.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Sometimes you got to catch work and it's someone made
of glass, but other times it's going to be family
mm hmm. But you can decide what your balls are
made of m m, and how seriously you have to
make sure you get hands on them or not.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And it changes so great, and it changes. I like it.
I like it a lot.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Okay, So it's called ask me anything, and I'm asking
you everything, so you now get to ask me something.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I have so many questions. But I love stories, and
I know you love fishing. So what's the story of
the one that got away? What's your rest fishing story?
Speaker 1 (38:04):
I must have lots of them, but I love fishing.
I don't know, I just I love fishing. I loved
I used to fly fish and so that was always serene.
It was generally at dusk and you're you know, you're
in cold water and you know, and it was beautiful
and just absolutely beautiful. And then I got into sea fishing,
(38:25):
and so I it's for me.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It's escapism.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I mean I always say I'm my happiest on in
or under the water. So that is definitely my happy space,
you know. I mean I can fall asleep in it.
I can fall asleep in the water like quite easily,
because I just love you know, that block your ears
and you just go into your own head. And so
then fishing one of those floor tanks, yeah, oh my god,
(38:49):
I love them. And then and so then just a
fishing aspect brings in a bit of competition.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
You just don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
It's fun, it's for I've taken a lot of a
lot of fostage kids and misplaced youth, I call them,
you know, and it's a fantastic activity to do with
them because you've got something to talk about. You're actually
quite physically close, yes, right, because you're in a boat
and it's not it's not a huge boat and most
(39:18):
of them have never been fishing before in their lives.
You know. Somebody of them have never even been to
a beach right and they live in Auckland. It's just incredible.
And so you get them on a boat and so
you've got a physical a safe physical closeness, which is
I'm a grandmother, so I always think I'm allowed to
have safe physical closeness because some of these kids have
not been touched in a in a safe and loving way,
(39:41):
and so and then you're teaching them to facially, you're
literally touching their hands, You're you know, it's just it's
really amazing because then they get a bite.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
And it's just like what the heck is the start?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Like when you when you've when you've cast or whatever,
and you I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
What's on the end, and then you've got to try
and hook it up and then you've got to and
then it is it's a battle. So yeah, I've want
to Woman's Malon fishing competition.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Before I beg was the marlin.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
But I'm not that big about one hundred and ten
kgs I think, which isn't that big for a marlin
to be really honest, a little one. Yeah, anyway, happy place.
I don't have to fish. I could just sit and
have a glass of wine, which I do. Sometimes the
husband does all the work, you know, He's the one
that has to get the boat in and drive the car.
So sometimes I'm just go I've had enough. Yeah, put
(40:33):
my scarf on. Thank you so much for your honesty,
thank you for coming in, thank you for I think
just being so war in the book and telling real stories.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
That people need to here.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
And I think you're going to help a lot of people.
So Susie's book, Bloody Minded is in stores now. It's
a rollicking read. And that's it for another episode. I've
Asked Me Anything. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow
Ask Me Anything on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
Make sure you check out some of my past fabulous guests,
and I'll be back next Sunday.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I'm Paula Bennet. Ask Me Anything. Goodbye,