June 8, 2024 • 46 mins
This week, Paula's guest is Theresa Gattung, fresh off receiving her Dame Companion honour. They discuss the recognition and Theresa's long career in business, and why more progress is to be made on getting women a seat at the top table. And Theresa shares what she has learned about romance and dating in the modern era through her new venture, Compatico.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I am Paula Bennett and welcome to my New Zealand
Herald podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ask me anything.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
No one think I've learned in life is It's never
too late to learn something new. So on this podcast
I talk to people from all walks of life. Dear
how they got to where they are, get some advice
and guidance on life's biggest questions. My guest this week
is one of New Zealand's most well known and successful
business people. She is a CEO, board director, entrepreneur, philanthropist.
(00:40):
She was the first female CEO of a listed company,
appointed to the lead telecom at just thirty seven years old,
and has several times been named in Fortune magazine's fifty
most Powerful Woman in International Business. You of course know
who it is, and she was recognized this week as
a Dame Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit,
(01:03):
Dame Theresa Getting welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Good afternoon, Paula. Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's really nice to have you on a couple of
house keeping.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm allowed to ask you anything, but you don't, but
you don't have to answer. I know God, God, and
we call it the safe space, so we just do
the no judge, because women can be quite bad at that.
So we just thought, lay that, lay that roll out. Okay,
ease us in quite far. Questions. You love reading, don't you?
(01:34):
And I'm looking at you now and you've just got
a massive books behind you.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Do you do you mood read.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
A little bit?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
If I'm overseas, I quite like to read books sort
of set in that region.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
But I often have a fiction thing going a non.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Fiction thing going, so it depends what I feel like.
But you know, I've just been to the wonderful Aukland
Writer's face, so I'm stopped up on books. I want
to read some of the bad books and some of
the writers I've read the more recent books.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
And yeah, I've always got.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
A couple of books on the God, I've just actually
finished a book, so I write.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Between books at the moment, which is a bit unusual.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And do you always read from from cover to end
or are you someone that skips to the end sometimes?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
No, I always read from cover to the end, because
it just ruins it if you do it any other way.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
See, I'm a bit controversial here.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I have been known just to skip to the end,
so then I don't speed read if I'm actually really
enjoying it. I kind of, And they're a very clever writer.
I sometimes just kind of want to know what's going
to happen, so then I don't have to feel like
I'm racing to get to the end. Well, I know
it's controversial, controversial. What would your perfect day look like?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Four, It depends whether it's a week or a weekend.
A perfect day during the week would look like a
combination of physical exercise, walking my dogs, swimming, pilarates, one
or more of those things, and some work. I like
to make things happen. I like to having protects on
the go and a nice dinner with family or friends.
(03:15):
During the weekend, I don't like to work so much.
The weekend would evolve more a later start, not being scheduled.
You know, if I'm at the bench, I would like
to sort of want it to the shops or the
beach and meet people and just be a bit more relaxed.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, there's so much to talk to you about, but
let's start with the very big news.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
How is Dame Teresa settling in?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, sort of feel like I'm just getting off cloud
nine and coming back to planet Earth. It's just been
the most thrilling and the most wonderful few days.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, and it will be at the ceremony as well.
I've been fortunate enough to go along and attend quite
a few and for family, especially for the person being recognized.
I just know that all of them say it's far
more special than they probably thought in their heads that
it would be to get that level of recognition.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yes, I think it is really special.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I know there's people who say, look, you know, we
should be a republic, no need for this, but however
you do it.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's special to be recognized by your.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Fellow country people what you've done and as you say,
make your family and the people have worked with you supported.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You very proud. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I interviewed Dame Susan Devoy a wee while ago, and
I noticed you said something a little bit similar when
I was reading it on the King's birthday, and that
was that, and I think it is.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Susan would say, it's particularly with women.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We don't ask men if they want to be addressed
as sir, but we often start with asking women and
it's kind of the use of using dame. Do you
think you're just kind of settle in and go with
whatever people do.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I do, I do. But you know that Susan
de boy I went to the same small girls school
college in roch Rua.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
She was a year younger than May, a year behind
me and that and that must have been quite an
environment for feisty girls.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It was female role models, it was it was nuns,
but they were you know, they were not telling us
to be in our place.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
And so it's I've always I've always admired her and thought, you.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Know, she she's a bit like me.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
She sees it straight, she's still for the same things
all her life, etc. Interestingly, I hadn't thought about that
dame versus sir and across agender lens, although I usually
do think it's agenda lens. But for me, yeah, I mean,
I think it'll just be, you know, it'll just be
what emerges.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I'm not going to put any of the formality around
how I interact. It's for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I don't think it's the men themselves that are insisting
on I think it's that we perhaps and let's talk
about your you know, your business career. Perhaps we expect
women to be a little more relaxed if you like,
or you know, we're just more comfortable and naturally addressing
sir instead of naturally addressing dame. And I'm kind of
making that up as I say it, by the way.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
You could well be right, you know, I think we still.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Do have an image of leaders as tall, middle class,
perhaps middle aged or older men.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And we've shifted that, we've shifted it.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
But so only our mother's generation that had to stop
their job when they got married and had kids. And
if that wasn't a sue for my mum because she
just wanted a family, but for other women it was heartbreaking.
That is only our mums. You know, we've actually come
a long way quite fast, and sometimes, you know, you
(06:41):
have throwbacks to Yes, we know that we've had.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Three female Prime ministers. Yes, we know we've got to
female ministers.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Find it just we know we've got many female CEOs
and female chairs of the largest companies in New Zealand.
And yet and yet it's still sterll of the minority
of women and visible public leadership roles, and so it
does tend to default that the leader is going to
be male.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, and that's that classic though, isn't it Dame Teres.
It's that classic and that we mention those women because
they're exceptional and they shouldn't be. It should be if
you like the norm, and not something that's almost noteworthy.
And I don't mean that disrespectfully to them, but it
should be part of our norm as such.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Well, that's why this was a wonderful King's Birthday list
because it honored so many women for services to women,
to governance, to women to business. I mean look to
be honored alongside Dame John and that was special for me.
You know, she's one of the founder group of Global Women.
I've been cheering Global Women for the last few years.
Just the most wonderful who way together up North. She
(07:45):
wasn't at it, but the global woman I'm talking about,
and Andy Blee is on our board.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
She was on the Services to Jet Thermal and Woman.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
So it's wonderful that in this year there's actually been
a recognition that business and the let the complete can
walk hand in hand. They are not two separate things.
They coinsist in many of us and it's just wonderful
to see that acknowledgment of women supporting other women because
it's inspiring for younger women and girls coming through.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I mean, as you say, we have come a long way.
But because it wasn't that long ago really that you
were the CEO of you know, of Teallycommon at that time,
our biggest publicly listed company and you were only thirty seven.
Was it hard then and do you think it wouldn't
be as hard today?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yes, it was hard then, and obviously I owe a
lot to Sir Roderick Dean who was the chair who
led the board to put me in there on the
first place, and it was groundbreaking at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It is easier now, but it is still not easy.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You know what's good now though, is that you know
I didn't have any children, and that made it so
much easier. And I think there is more acknowledgement that
we want our leaders, men and women to be able
to have children, have families, and leave to look like,
to look like what most people look like, not to
have to sacrifice their personal life to succeed professionally. Although
(09:10):
parliamentarians work crazy hours, I don't know how you get
any any chopped family time with it sort of ours
that you used to work and they still work.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So yes, there are more women.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Now, both as chairs who are appointing CEOs and as CEOs,
and that makes it easier. There are more women and
executive teams, there are more women on boards. It's easier,
but still I think the penalties for women are higher.
You don't get a second chance, and it's not as
easy on the entrepreneurial space. Most of the funding still
(09:41):
goes to men, not to women who are running who
are setting up businesses.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
And if you make a mistake, which everybody does right,
or you don't quite get something right, it seems that
it's your gender that's blamed for it and not the
fact that you're You know that you're human and you're
in a big job and we're all going to slip
up occasionally.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
They genderize it really quickly.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, And I think social media's made that worse. Cauller.
You know, when it wasn't the.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Thing when I was CEO, and I still copped n
up abuse just in the mainstream media, So it would
be terrible now if you added social media on top
of that.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
How I mean, it feels like, you know, and I
suppose I wasn't in the business world back then, and
so but it feels like all of a sudden you
kind of burst into our awareness, you know, when you
got that role, and you know, and I suppose your
age would have played a part in that, because that
is young, right for such a big role, and of
course your gender, and then the fact that you are
(10:37):
full of color and you do call a spade a spade,
and so all of those Do you think all of
those different things kind of compounded the kind of attention
that you got.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yes, you know, at the time I thought, well, anyone
is a CEO telecom is going to get a lot
of attention. But then my successes didn't get really as
much attention. So I think the combination of all those things.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
But it wasn't all bad. It's been at a personal level.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
It's been a great platform for me to get attention
on things i've done since you know, whether they're commercial,
whether they're charitable, And of course girls.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Look up and they go, oh, mummy, I.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Could be a cel, Mummy, I could be Prime minister
or so that that visibility I think is important.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
There's no point being shrinking violence. You don't get Brady
points for that.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
If you have to lead men, which are those days
that the executeam was all.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Male, then you cannot be you know, you can't sit
entirely in your feminine energy.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You have to be able to be tough, and you
have to be able to look like you know what
you're doing, and so those things. Now, I think it's
a bit more nuanced, a bit more balanced. Some some
some more empathetic values are seen as important in leaders
So I think we've we've.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Shifted a bit. But still it's harder to get the
top of the woman, it's harder to stay there.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
There are more penalties for perceived failure, and it's it's
sort of it's still a more difficult balancing actor.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
What is tough enough and what is too tough? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, you've talked about your dad playing quite a big
role in you, I suppose having the courage to step
up into those sort of leadership, and he was sort
of the champion of all four daughters, is the way
that you've described it. I just I loved one of
his sayings, what she used to say when a door shuts,
find a window?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Was he ahead of his time?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Hi? Hell yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
He passed a few years ago, not of COVID, but
during the COVID times. But he had only five sisters,
no brothers, and he was a feminist. I mean, I
there can't be many eighty year old men who are feminists,
but my father was definitely one of those.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I often say that my husband was probably about the
first feminist I met, and he grew up with a
very strong mother and all sisters, and I just think
he looked through that lens of you know, literally a
woman can do anything, and probably better.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Let's talk a bit about what you've.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Done since then, because it's just been absolutely fascinating. I
mean your work and gender pay gaps, the work that
you've done for women's organizations, so perhaps more from that
professional lens as well. And I know that you and
I met probably properly when I was Minister for Women
and you helped me in that role a lot, and
we looked at how we could bring the corporates along,
(13:19):
in particular to look at the gender pay gaps.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Do you think we're still making progress?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah? I do.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
As you know, the sixty odd Champions for Change have
had gen pay gap reporting as a minimum membership standard
for over a year now. So I think governments of
both persuasions have been lacking courage. I think the previous
government had, as you know, the councilor on the councilor
pomative woman. We had been urging them to do this
(13:46):
the whole time they were in government and we've finished
the work. The bill was only introduced weeks before the election.
It was National Party policy to support pay transparency, but
was now a coalition so that isn't as on the
table at the moment, but it should be.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
But the private sector is well.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Ahead on this and so this would be well received
as long as the number of employees is no, it's
not too low. Australia have just reduced a number of
employees that companies must report on from two fifty to
one hundred. So if New Zealand brought a legislation that
was no less than one hundred employees.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Perhaps starting at two fifty, that would be well received.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
And there'll be people that are listening that don't understand
why it's important, but it's you know, if I stripped
it back, I'd go, well, you can't change what you
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Is that a good start, That's a really.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Good The reason I think politicians don't think it's important
it's because they have it. We would be horrified if
a woman Prime minister was paid less than.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
A male prime minister.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
That doesn't happen in New Zealand because what a prime
minister has paid is transparent, and so you know, that's
what it is. What a cabinet minister has paid is transparent.
That is not the case in very many other occupations.
It's not the case in journalism. Women journalists often are
horrified when they find out what their male contemporaries get.
(15:07):
And so if you, if you, if you have that
sort of opaqueness and that you women don't know and
so yes, of course, as the law, women must be
paid the same as men for doing exactly the same
job and what is it the same job?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And so what all this does really is.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Actually put the onus on employers to look to to report.
I don't think we need a whole registry and body
about it the way ever have in Australia.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
If employers have to monitor it and put it on.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Their website, then then we can all see and you
can and women will know which organizations are.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Working on this tast seriously and where it would be
a good place to work and where it wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. Absolutely, so we're still had a long way to
go do you think so, I mean, I mean, I
feel like we've made progress, but you know, we still
see those occupations that are predominantly female being you know,
not being paid the same and not being recognized the
same either as many of those I mean, you know,
if we sort of went to nursing. I've been with
(16:08):
my mum in the hospital quite a bit lately, and
what an amazing predominantly female workforce. And I just think, man,
I think a man that worked on my car would
be paid more than they are.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, that's back back into how you value jobs.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Have got different similar skills, but one with traditional male
work and one was traditional female work. So yes, all
those caring and all those caring areas traditionally underpaid because
women do it and women are expected to do it
for love, not even for money in some situation. So
it's extension of woman's unpaid labor in the home. And
(16:42):
Nolan Wearing has written a lot on this globally, you know,
is the way we measure GDP. Does it even make sense?
It doesn't count all woman's unpaid labor. So yes, I
think there is a long way to go, And I
think New Zealand still isn't a really good place.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I mean, go right back, woman, run the right to vote.
We all did. It wasn't just wealthy woman, it wasn't
just women who owned property.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
And that sense of women standing together still perbays this country.
We just had a wonderful who we are North Mari woman, Paki,
our woman just going okay, let's stand together for some
of the things that need to happen. So I actually
feel very positive, Paula. I think we matter more to
the world than we realize. And even though we're not
(17:27):
as great as the world thinks, and even though we
know we're not the feminist utopia, one of the good
things the last government did was put abortion rights into
the health back to get it out of the nudge nudge,
wink wink. And look what's happened in America, the rollback
of reproductive freedom.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So I think what's the verson's important for New.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Zealand woman is actually to acknowledge what is working and
what has been achieved and hang on to those games.
Do not let our sons and daughters just take.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
That for granted.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You've talked a bit about the forties been tough for you.
You know that was when you telecom You had a
relationship breakup. You know, it was you know, a leaky apartment.
You know taught me through that time.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And why you think.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's important to share it because you know, you seem
and you are formidable, intelligent and and you know and
just this fabulous person. But I think it's it's equally
important that we know that we all go through ups
and downs and we can get through them.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I should have done good research for it. Yeah, my
forties was a was a.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Was definitely an unhappy decade, and four years in particular
between about the age of forty two and forty six
with the most difficult time in my life.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So it was difficult because John and I had separated.
I was alone.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
It was difficult because I hadn't planned for life past telecom.
It was difficult because telecom ended not in the way
that I saw or what have planned for. And my
biggest financial asset was my lovely apartment in Wellington, which
was part of a leaky building. And so that was
difficult because I was unmoored and everyone else just carried
(19:04):
on with their life and so I felt really lonely and.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I didn't know what to do next. I went overseas
with a good friend.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I thought I might live overseas when I came back
to New Zealand and I thought, no, I really loved
this country. I really want my bones buried here. It's
mitering awai Wai. So I decided I had to create
a life that was a base around New Zealand, but
ability to go overseas.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Of course, I had some great friends. My dear friend Margaret.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Ducas subsequently passed away a few years ago. She was
an absolute stormwart and I got going again really.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
First and on the charitable side.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
She took me up to the SBCA and we took
on board the project to turn the old Fever Hospital,
which was derelict, into the new.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Especiation from Willington. That took me.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I was working hard on that for months and months,
which ended up being years and years, and that took
me out of myself and doing something for somebody else,
in this case animals, but also for the community really was.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
And then opportunities started to come and I started to
say yes, and some worked out and some did it.
But gradually I put a portfolio of life together. And
actually the time I was fifty, my fiftieth party, which
I had in Queenstown.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I felt very happy, but I started early.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Forties very stressed. I went through a very difficult period.
And then after fifty, like at fifty, I became an
entrepreneur because I met Celia Robinson. I shifted to Auckland,
I met Celia Robinson, and then the last thirteen years
have been fantastic, and they've all been about being an
entrepreneur and then becoming a philanthropist more generally because I've
(20:40):
given money to charities, directed of it from my pay
since I was twenty one, but doing that with my sister,
sitting up the Gang Foundation and helping women in you know,
systemic ways like funding the cheerbul entrepreneurip or on university,
but also on personal ways to investing in their businesses
or mentoring them, etc.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
We're going to take a break and then we're going
to talk about the new dating app, which I'm very
excited to talk about.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
But before I get.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
There, I just want to, you know, like, hey, I'm
not suret of good ideas. You know, my staff used
to say, you have fifteen a day, and one of
them might be something we.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Should keep talking about. But you you do more than that.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I mean my food bag, the people who've been around
you know, we'll get into the dating act more. But
I suppose it just impresses me so much that you
see a gap or you need something done the SPCA,
but then you actually have the forty two to make
a plan and then work towards it and do it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Are we teaching that enough?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
That a very good question.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Although I struggled in my forties, I think that builds resilience.
And I do believe that everybody is going to have
a tough time in life at some point, and so
some people it's early on. They can heartbreak early on.
For some people it's later.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
But no one goes through life unscathed, right, no one's life.
It's just a rose, a rose peals lad in their path.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
It's just that some people stuffer publicly and some people
suffer privately. And so some people's challenges are evident and
some people's are not. And if you want to live
in New Zealand, actually you have to be the same
person when you're on top of the well and you're
under the wheel, because you know it doesn't go too
well if you behave differently as a Dame than when
you were the Dame.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I can't remember the question you asked me.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, I just I suppose there's a question.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Really you did touch on it, but as are we
building that resilience in it or more? I don't know
if it's just resilience, because you're not just resilient.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That's a given.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
It's more that you've got that entrepreneur that you can
see a gap in the market. You can then actually
look at what the trends are. And I admire it greatly.
I mean, I've been in public service and then I've
worked for other people, and I've just I always think
that if I had my time again, I would even
be a bit more gutsy and do it myself.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I need to say that because someone today said to
me that I sit comfortably in the space of ambiguity,
and I do. I sit comptively in the space of ambiguity.
I trust that is going to work out, and I
just put one full of set in front of the other,
and I go, this looks like.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
The next thing to do.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
And I surround myself with people who are smarter than me,
who have skills.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
I don't have, and that that means I can.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Multiply my efforts and then I have my wonderful sisen
Chris Woodwicce, who's worked with me for thirty years. So
it's the work of two women you're seeing, not just
one woman the whole time. But yeah, I enroll other
people and then I trust I do not try and
control things at a detailed level. That is that is
a neathma to anything flourishing.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
You have to get great people.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
And you have to let them have their own agency
and then you and then you are navigating, charting, guiding,
but you are not the producer and the director. You
have to actually do this collaboratively because everything in an
entrepreneur you're going to pivot all the time. Everything is
(23:59):
changing all the time. None of us saw the pandemic.
None of us saw what would come after that. The
pandemic was helped with attend. We had already set up
a health business online, so it was fantastic for that.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
For one of to my other businesses, it was dire.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
So it's like, actually, Bill Gates is something I think
is also true, which is to make to generate wealth,
you've got to concentrate. But to keep wealth you have
to diversify and so that's I think that's also a thing.
I'm naturally curious about lots of things denutras subjects at school, so.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I'm never going to be someone who's only in one sector.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
I'm I'm you know, I've got I've got thinkers of
many pies because I'm interested in many different things.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, on that, we take a short break, and then
we need to talk about one of those things, which
is the new dating app, which I'm very excited about.
All right, Dame Teresa, let's talk about your latest venture,
(25:02):
a dating app. You launch Competico earlier this year, and
you've always been very entrepreneurial, as we've already said, so
it'll be no surprise that you found a problem and
you've decided to fix it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I mean, why is Competito different to what else is
out there? I mean, and was it based on personal experience?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
It's most of personal experience.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So a few years ago, I thought, look, I'd like
to try and find a partner again. I've been so
busy with work a long time, and I looked at
the alternatives and they were dire. I was never going
to go on Bumble or Tinder because I'm because I'm
well known. But you know, a lot of people don't
want to do it. It's not safe for women and
(25:46):
even men. It's like if you don't want to meet
your client on there, or your partner or you know,
it's like this UN's a very small place. So a
lot of people really don't want to do the apps.
There weren't for many other options. I went on to
another platform that said it was matching, and they said, oh,
we don't take from any woman over the age of
fifty five, but you know, we might make an exception
for you.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
So it was pretty dire. Anyway, I joined that service.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Did they take me in over fifty five?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
They do, of course they do. Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Anyway, it wasn't just wasn't elegant.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I knew nothing really bad happened to me, but all.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
The things that happened to aman getting as stored up
as I walked into the restaurant, hats hopping photos.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And then e were hearing from the person again, you know,
just all those things that you know.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
It's dating through apps in the last decade has become
so transactional.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
The whole shite culture.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
It's the antithesis of love it's like it's worse than
the second hand car and yet it's love and so
this is it actually isn't an app. It actually it
is optimized for mobile, so you can exits a rebel phone.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
But you go to the website, you can either.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Just book for a fifty minute friends Zoom call or
you can do the short questionnaire and you can sign
up and then there are two levels of service. But
it's a matchmaking agency at its essence, that where you
get a personalized matchmaker to actually work with you through
the journey, or you can join.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
As a gold you go in the singles community.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
You can invite it to the events that we have
and you're available for matching with the platinums.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
So we have had tremendous people coming in. It's like
it is and it's a lovely service. You can pay
to have.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Your photo, you don't have to have a photo, and
the only people who see the photo of the people
you're going to be matched whether it's not public. Your
profile's not public. After or with the matchmaker, they run
up your profile, you approve it and then it's used
only for matching people within the community.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's not public at all.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
You don't have to have a photo, but if you
have a photo, you haven't done with our photographer and
our style. So no photos of men and fish, no
heavily retached photos, no ten year old photos. An experience
of being with Lisa and having your hair and makeup
done and photaken.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
This wonderful.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
So we've got plenty of dating going on, no marriage
proposals yet, but it's it's a lovely experience. It's an
elegant experience. That's you know that the person I want
to achieve is actually do this properly, do this an
adult way.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Don't don't don't turn.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
It into a you know, yesday's fish and chip wrapper culture.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
That's what that's what's happened to dating on the apps.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And so the matching part, so as you say, I'm
either going to do an interview and or a survey,
and in that I might be telling you a bit
about me, and then equally kind of what I'm looking
for or what I think I'm looking for. And then
are you sort of are you are you tested a
bit in that?
Speaker 4 (28:44):
That depends, So yes, you fill out the competit code
of the questionnaire and it's an our zoom call and yes, it.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Is about you.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Some people cry with our matchmakers in that call Pauler,
you know, because they're processing whatever they've gone through.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
It was really important to me because I could see from.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
My own dating experience that we need to have psychologists involved.
Many of the matchmakers have a background as a psychologists,
and we have a psychologist as part of our partnership
as one of my equity partners, Tari Toks, So she's
available to be a psychologist, and we have other psychologists
as well, so people have a choice. But she's also
(29:22):
involved in the whole in the compart Cooda and the
questions and how they're asked. And she writes a column
in the paper. We share something, you know, we share it.
We're trying to actually improve the quality of relationships altogether really,
so she's sharing what she's learned. And so some people
do need a bit of We have had people who
have preferred people who want it too, psychologists within our
(29:45):
sort of fino, because some people do need a bit
of help processing what's happened in their first act.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And do you think do you think there's someone for everyone?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, I do think there's someone for everyone. I do
think there's.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Because I was thinking, you know, there must be the
odd ones so that the psychologists think, well, either you're
not ready or all you're sort of visiting crazy town
right now, and we might just need to slow it
all down a bit.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
We haven't had anyone like at that extreme.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Okay, if we failt honor if we failed on our
sort of a fifteen minute zoom call, which is free complimentary,
that someone actually just wasn't a good fit, we wouldn't
take their money.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
We would try not to put ourselves in a situation.
But everybody must.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Do a Ministry of Justice check, and we have had
some people fail the Ministry of Justice check.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And I do you have standards?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Like absolutely everyone has to do the MOJ check. So look,
I can't reach confidentiality, but yes we have. There have
been some people who haven't become members because of what's
surfaced in that process.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So then if the psychologists make a match, then do
you just start by talking corresponding that person? We would
do the two of you make the decision as to
whether or when you met face to face and things
like that.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
So say the matchmaker, which is ahead of matchmaking, say
she's got a platinum client could be man, could be
a woman, shows the profile of the other person.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Then other person has asked, you want to go on
back to this person? They say yes.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Then both parties have given each other's mobile numbers and
they decide.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's not all Aucklanders. With Aucklanders, we've got a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Of people from the Bay of Plenty, from Wellington, from
christ Church. The first date was a guy from christ
Church and a woman from Auckland. He flew to Auckland.
The first people who signed up were a woman from
Wellington and a man from toddron Us. So not all
actually all in Auckland, or the matchmakers are all in Auckland.
We've just got started with a Willington matchmaker in the
last couple of weeks and we've just expanded to Wellington
(31:50):
with a matchmaker and photographer. So and that differs too
because in some services it's the man mister Nisia, and
others it's the woman. Were basically people like adults. You
both said you want to go on a date with
this person. You've seen their profile. Usually the profile has
a photo. Most people do get a photo done and
so then.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
They go on a date and then we encourage them
to do two dates.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Not everyone sticks with that, but you know, people can
be nervous, can't always tell, you know, just.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
In one date. We don't really recommend twenty minute coffee dates.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
It's like a dinner date or and at the second
or third dates doing some activity, spending a bit more
time together.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
And Cindy will check in after that date and say,
how did it go.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Get both people's perspective, coach them, encourage.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Them, you know, no one want to know, but they're
acting like adults.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
They tell each other if it's not going to be
a thing, and or if they want to go on
a second date. And at some point we will drop
out of the process, but and carry on matching other people.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
But so far.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
We're you know, people are a few dates, but no
one no one has yet said, okay, right, I'm in
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Therefore I don't need you anymore interesting And so have
you been using the service yourself?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Aha, I've been expecting someone to ask me that all week?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, no, how can I put this?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Obviously, when I set this up, I thought there was
a psibility I might meet someone through it.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
That hasn't happened to date. That is not my highest priority.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I'm not in any other services. I told the world
that I'm single, so that has actually bought other things along,
and I don't really want to say more about that
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So yeah, I had some dreadful dates when I was
single as an MP because I was single for a
long time. I single for like about twenty five years,
and I kind of went through that stage and went,
you know, I think it would be nice to meet someone.
So I decided that what I do is and for
twelve months, I would say.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yes to a date, you know, like that.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Actually I was flee the problem because it kind of
got so independent and faccated and I had fun and
there was no terurable experiences, but there were some not
as good ones. Yes, it's harder when you've got a
public profile.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
It is harder when you've got a public profile. It
definitely is.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
But my experience of dating is that that puts some
then off, but equally.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
It makes something keener.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
And you know, you and I had to have a profile,
that's an issue, but someone else could have something else.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's like it's just you know, what is the perfect.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Anybody who was second or third time around is dealing
with a very different world than I first repartnered it,
you know, at twenty one in university, and so you're
dealing with your own baggage, as you say, and we fixated.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
That's definitely an issue as you get into your fifties
and sixties, are you as open as you once were?
Speaker 4 (34:52):
And also there are real things like busy lives, children, grandchildren,
There are real things to negotiate.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So people move with their own you know, there's no.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Pressure on the timing of this, but boy, there is
a need for the service.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
And of course it is just so disease.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Matchmaking agencies are really common elsewhere, they just have not
really been established a New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
So have you got any tips for people on the
dating scene if you like? I mean, you've said make
it longer than just to quit coffee, and I've taken
that on board.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Not that I'm single, but I.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Don't want what you said actually push yourself out of
your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
It's like so for example, for me, I found that
using another service, they were always like matching me with businessmen,
but that you know, my first partner was an artist,
and it's like, so I'm a very creative person and
you know, my partner might be an architect. Like it's
it's so be open, be open and give people a chance,
(35:55):
give people a chance, be open, trust the process.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
And if you think you might have baggage.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Book a social of the Psychologist's only a couple hundred
bucks and it might be life changing.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And maybe go in looking for the things that you've
got in common instead of going in looking for the
things that you don't and the things you don't like
about them, because I think we sometimes do that when
we've been single for a little while. It's like, well,
this is my criteria, and I'm just going to go
in there with my top five questions and you know,
and if you don't know, if you don't get four right,
(36:27):
then that's it.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Whereas we actually take some time like.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
A business project, this is non negotiable in there and there,
and there might be a few non negotiable things like
you know, smoking or whatever, but you chuck the checklist
and just see how you feel and.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You know, and give yourself a break, like you.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Don't want to be judged and people don't want to
be judged, and you know, just I always went on
a second date.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I thought there was any potential.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I never really only occasionally did I say no after
a first date.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, good on you.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Hey, It's just I want to take briefly if I can,
on your on the Getting foundation and the work that
you're do in giving back. And I mean you said
you've always done it, so do you just why because
actually that's not new Zealander's you know what I mean.
I think we do what we certainly do more now
and I know I do, but I wouldn't have thought
of it when I was twenty one. But you were
(37:18):
saying that, you know, I went right back for then
and you've now you foundations.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Two years in, right, So how's that going?
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Well, it's going brilliantly and most of them are hes
done by my wonderful sister Angela Getting.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
But it came from my Catholic background, our Catholic background.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
So although honestly I would cringe now, you know, at
school the boxes went round saying, you know, this is
for poor children Africa.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Like though, we would cringe the idea that actually.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Of giving, of actually sharing what you had, of first
of all appreciating what you have, Ralsia Rondelson have it
and then sharing.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
It in some way. So I think that let's start
with me. I've almost thought.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Energy needs to be in motion and money is just
so I've always been not tight about money. I've always
felt that it well. My father has gave us such
good money value. See, he always believed that you could
create more. There's plenty. I think some people think of
money as a scarce pot and if you have more,
I have less. I don't think about it like that.
(38:18):
I think there's.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Plenty of room for there to be enough for all
of us.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
So that's part of it that wanted to keep it
in circulation. But yes, so from the age of twenty one,
I support an SPCA and women's causes, and I still do.
In fact, I think I've been the same person all
my life.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
It's just that the world's caught up with me. So
during lockdown.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
I wanted to I thought about, Okay, I've got a
bit more time, and how can I make a bigger
contribution Because all my career I've just been giving money
but not had much time to make two and to
equal five. And I'd seen in my work over those
years with the SPA how powerful that could be, and
so I over time convinced my sister She took a
(39:05):
bit of convincing because she was the educational said a
bit of principle for many years, understood the education sector
really well, and she had helped set up to a
key papercuro a charity Pepercura, and grown that, so she.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Knew the other side of it.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
And so it's like I knew one side and she
knew the other side, and we shared some of the
same passions. So we basically set up the foundation around that.
It's just the two of us and Chris Wood was
our third trustee.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
We don't have a bit.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
We lay out clearly on the website the things that
the causes that we're about, and then she does all
the due diligence and then we decide quite quickly and
then we get on with it.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
And so we've done. We don't have any jurkle from boundaries.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
We support projects and people and things throughout New Zealand
and it's very varied. So it's everything from we started
to pay her salary for Sarah pay to the kindness collecting.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Two years we've been paying her apart salary. As you know,
that has grown.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
She's now got a you know, a big warehouse she's
grown from a small West Auckland charity to be throughout
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
So just enabling her to do what she.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Is doing in scale and scale up with some of
my physical things. We bought an ambulance for this area,
this western Bay Plenty area, because we wanted to honor
the fact that our father had been looked after by
the ambulance so many times and they needed another ambulance.
We bought a proper animal truck for that for the
far north because that's driving huge distances and so there
(40:41):
van had basically worn out. And so sometimes it's a
physical thing. Sometimes we simply sponsor things that are already happening,
like scholarships at Minimal Foundation on First Foundation, or we
set up scholarships with the First Foundation at our old
school in Rochal Ruur which got amalgamate with the boys school.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
We support female scholars.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Sometimes we co create programs, like with Toppy Tower, we
co created a program.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
To inspire.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Girls in their final years of school live who live
in South Auckland. They come for a day and they
get inspired about possibility. And one of the teachers told
me that the second time she bought girls, she said, well.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
The first time.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Only one of those cools was going to go to
university and after this one day they all decide to
go to US an exemple one and I said, wow,
just from this one day program, and she said, just
from the one day program. So someone is quite straightforward
things going a huge impact. More significant perhaps in terms
of the country is the work we've been doing and
she's been doing with Shannon on the East Coast, which
(41:42):
has started with one Kura girls in Terreo Immersion, who
is now many Kurra who are learning robotics.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
We're funding them to learn robotics and so can you imagine.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
How much better off this country would be if girls
from the economically challenged region, the generature region were world
class at robotics.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
It's like if we could harness all the talent.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
So look, I'm quite I'm quite unapologetic about.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
That we fund girls.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
We do sometimes fun boys as well, sort of incidentally,
but our focus is on girls. Is plenty of malcolik
there was you can fun boys, because we're trying to
actually give girls a little bit more of a legger,
you know for what we enjoyed, you know, the life
that we've been able to have.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, I think it's extraordinary and is making a difference.
You know, I've been lucky enough to see some of
the work that you've done over the years, and I
know firsthand when you hear those stories from those girls
and young women is to the difference because if they
can't see it, then they can't do it and they
can't dream it.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
And giving them that kind of hope.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
So I on behalf of New Zealand acknowledge you being
acknowledged this week in getting your dame hood because I
think it's very well deserved and this country is better
off for having you and your sister and all the
others that are around.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And you that support these causes. So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Well, now you get to ask me something, because that's
the way the podcast goes as it's you know, you
get one yet one shot at This isn't my least
favorite book because I just never know.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
What someone.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
I've been thinking about what I would ask you, And
I'm going to ask you, perhaps the obvious quistion because
I had not to ask for Petsy questions.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Because that wouldn't be me, it wouldn't be you.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
But it would be fantastic to have a woman there
of Auckland.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Are you considering it run?
Speaker 2 (43:40):
That's interesting and there is something in leadership and change
that still excites me, I think, and how you do
use the skills and talents that that you've that you've
acquired over a period of time. You know, I'm really
fortunate and that I put my hand up and have
just started in the role as chair, and I must
(44:01):
admit it's quite beautifully consuming me. So I still have
a lot of other things going on. I'm still doing
my work at Bailey's. So in the context of me
giving that one hundred percent, because man, I can make
a huge difference in that organization and for pretty much
all of all New Zealand, right because if we're not
actually needing medicines, then we know someone who is. And
(44:24):
when you're watching people do give a little page. There's
got to be a better way in this beautiful little
country of ours. So at the moment I'm kind of
really focused on that and it's taking a lot and
I think, just Park Well, you suld have said before
you can you know, you don't have to be in
every detail and you don't have to have made every decision.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
You can kind of let something breathe for a while
as well.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I agree, Look, farmac is so worthy.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
I'm just such a huge support of Rachel Smallies and
what she's done to bring this to light.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
And yeah, that you are doing noble work there for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Well, wasn't it great to see her recognized on Yeah,
on King's birth day?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Is weel Elena.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
I imagine it would have meant a lot to her
to have had that recognition from government on behalf of
New Zealanders.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
So I was very pleased for her, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Well, Dame Teresa Getting, thank you very much for taking
the time to chat to me today.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
If they want to find out more, they can go
and look at the website.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
If they want to get on the old dating.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
They can go to competito dot co dot in ze.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Good, or they can go to Getting Foundation dot in
z for the Getting Foundation, or they can go to
my own website, Teresa Getting dot com. There's many ways
to connect with some of the things that I'm working on.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Oh, well, go and do it, I say to everyone,
because that's it for another episode of Ask Me Anything.
You get in touch with me by emailing us Paula
at nzime dot co dot z.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Feel free to send me through your questions, your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I've always loved to hear from you, and you can
find me on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn. Just make sure
you follow. Ask Me Anything on radio or wherever you
get your podcasts. I'm Paula Benett. Ask me Anything.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Goodbye,
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I am Paula Bennett and welcome to my New Zealand
Herald podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ask me anything.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
No one think I've learned in life is It's never
too late to learn something new. So on this podcast
I talk to people from all walks of life. Dear
how they got to where they are, get some advice
and guidance on life's biggest questions. My guest this week
is one of New Zealand's most well known and successful
business people. She is a CEO, board director, entrepreneur, philanthropist.
(00:40):
She was the first female CEO of a listed company,
appointed to the lead telecom at just thirty seven years old,
and has several times been named in Fortune magazine's fifty
most Powerful Woman in International Business. You of course know
who it is, and she was recognized this week as
a Dame Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit,
(01:03):
Dame Theresa Getting welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Good afternoon, Paula. Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's really nice to have you on a couple of
house keeping.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm allowed to ask you anything, but you don't, but
you don't have to answer. I know God, God, and
we call it the safe space, so we just do
the no judge, because women can be quite bad at that.
So we just thought, lay that, lay that roll out. Okay,
ease us in quite far. Questions. You love reading, don't you?
(01:34):
And I'm looking at you now and you've just got
a massive books behind you.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Do you do you mood read.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
A little bit?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
If I'm overseas, I quite like to read books sort
of set in that region.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
But I often have a fiction thing going a non.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Fiction thing going, so it depends what I feel like.
But you know, I've just been to the wonderful Aukland
Writer's face, so I'm stopped up on books. I want
to read some of the bad books and some of
the writers I've read the more recent books.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
And yeah, I've always got.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
A couple of books on the God, I've just actually
finished a book, so I write.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Between books at the moment, which is a bit unusual.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And do you always read from from cover to end
or are you someone that skips to the end sometimes?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
No, I always read from cover to the end, because
it just ruins it if you do it any other way.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
See, I'm a bit controversial here.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I have been known just to skip to the end,
so then I don't speed read if I'm actually really
enjoying it. I kind of, And they're a very clever writer.
I sometimes just kind of want to know what's going
to happen, so then I don't have to feel like
I'm racing to get to the end. Well, I know
it's controversial, controversial. What would your perfect day look like?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Four, It depends whether it's a week or a weekend.
A perfect day during the week would look like a
combination of physical exercise, walking my dogs, swimming, pilarates, one
or more of those things, and some work. I like
to make things happen. I like to having protects on
the go and a nice dinner with family or friends.
(03:15):
During the weekend, I don't like to work so much.
The weekend would evolve more a later start, not being scheduled.
You know, if I'm at the bench, I would like
to sort of want it to the shops or the
beach and meet people and just be a bit more relaxed.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, there's so much to talk to you about, but
let's start with the very big news.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
How is Dame Teresa settling in?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, sort of feel like I'm just getting off cloud
nine and coming back to planet Earth. It's just been
the most thrilling and the most wonderful few days.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, and it will be at the ceremony as well.
I've been fortunate enough to go along and attend quite
a few and for family, especially for the person being recognized.
I just know that all of them say it's far
more special than they probably thought in their heads that
it would be to get that level of recognition.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yes, I think it is really special.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I know there's people who say, look, you know, we
should be a republic, no need for this, but however
you do it.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's special to be recognized by your.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Fellow country people what you've done and as you say,
make your family and the people have worked with you supported.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You very proud. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I interviewed Dame Susan Devoy a wee while ago, and
I noticed you said something a little bit similar when
I was reading it on the King's birthday, and that
was that, and I think it is.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Susan would say, it's particularly with women.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We don't ask men if they want to be addressed
as sir, but we often start with asking women and
it's kind of the use of using dame. Do you
think you're just kind of settle in and go with
whatever people do.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I do, I do. But you know that Susan
de boy I went to the same small girls school
college in roch Rua.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
She was a year younger than May, a year behind
me and that and that must have been quite an
environment for feisty girls.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It was female role models, it was it was nuns,
but they were you know, they were not telling us
to be in our place.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
And so it's I've always I've always admired her and thought, you.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Know, she she's a bit like me.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
She sees it straight, she's still for the same things
all her life, etc. Interestingly, I hadn't thought about that
dame versus sir and across agender lens, although I usually
do think it's agenda lens. But for me, yeah, I mean,
I think it'll just be, you know, it'll just be
what emerges.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I'm not going to put any of the formality around
how I interact. It's for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I don't think it's the men themselves that are insisting
on I think it's that we perhaps and let's talk
about your you know, your business career. Perhaps we expect
women to be a little more relaxed if you like,
or you know, we're just more comfortable and naturally addressing
sir instead of naturally addressing dame. And I'm kind of
making that up as I say it, by the way.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
You could well be right, you know, I think we still.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Do have an image of leaders as tall, middle class,
perhaps middle aged or older men.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And we've shifted that, we've shifted it.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
But so only our mother's generation that had to stop
their job when they got married and had kids. And
if that wasn't a sue for my mum because she
just wanted a family, but for other women it was heartbreaking.
That is only our mums. You know, we've actually come
a long way quite fast, and sometimes, you know, you
(06:41):
have throwbacks to Yes, we know that we've had.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Three female Prime ministers. Yes, we know we've got to
female ministers.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Find it just we know we've got many female CEOs
and female chairs of the largest companies in New Zealand.
And yet and yet it's still sterll of the minority
of women and visible public leadership roles, and so it
does tend to default that the leader is going to
be male.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, and that's that classic though, isn't it Dame Teres.
It's that classic and that we mention those women because
they're exceptional and they shouldn't be. It should be if
you like the norm, and not something that's almost noteworthy.
And I don't mean that disrespectfully to them, but it
should be part of our norm as such.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Well, that's why this was a wonderful King's Birthday list
because it honored so many women for services to women,
to governance, to women to business. I mean look to
be honored alongside Dame John and that was special for me.
You know, she's one of the founder group of Global Women.
I've been cheering Global Women for the last few years.
Just the most wonderful who way together up North. She
(07:45):
wasn't at it, but the global woman I'm talking about,
and Andy Blee is on our board.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
She was on the Services to Jet Thermal and Woman.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
So it's wonderful that in this year there's actually been
a recognition that business and the let the complete can
walk hand in hand. They are not two separate things.
They coinsist in many of us and it's just wonderful
to see that acknowledgment of women supporting other women because
it's inspiring for younger women and girls coming through.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I mean, as you say, we have come a long way.
But because it wasn't that long ago really that you
were the CEO of you know, of Teallycommon at that time,
our biggest publicly listed company and you were only thirty seven.
Was it hard then and do you think it wouldn't
be as hard today?
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yes, it was hard then, and obviously I owe a
lot to Sir Roderick Dean who was the chair who
led the board to put me in there on the
first place, and it was groundbreaking at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
It is easier now, but it is still not easy.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You know what's good now though, is that you know
I didn't have any children, and that made it so
much easier. And I think there is more acknowledgement that
we want our leaders, men and women to be able
to have children, have families, and leave to look like,
to look like what most people look like, not to
have to sacrifice their personal life to succeed professionally. Although
(09:10):
parliamentarians work crazy hours, I don't know how you get
any any chopped family time with it sort of ours
that you used to work and they still work.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So yes, there are more women.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Now, both as chairs who are appointing CEOs and as CEOs,
and that makes it easier. There are more women and
executive teams, there are more women on boards. It's easier,
but still I think the penalties for women are higher.
You don't get a second chance, and it's not as
easy on the entrepreneurial space. Most of the funding still
(09:41):
goes to men, not to women who are running who
are setting up businesses.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
And if you make a mistake, which everybody does right,
or you don't quite get something right, it seems that
it's your gender that's blamed for it and not the
fact that you're You know that you're human and you're
in a big job and we're all going to slip
up occasionally.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
They genderize it really quickly.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, And I think social media's made that worse. Cauller.
You know, when it wasn't the.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Thing when I was CEO, and I still copped n
up abuse just in the mainstream media, So it would
be terrible now if you added social media on top
of that.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
How I mean, it feels like, you know, and I
suppose I wasn't in the business world back then, and
so but it feels like all of a sudden you
kind of burst into our awareness, you know, when you
got that role, and you know, and I suppose your
age would have played a part in that, because that
is young, right for such a big role, and of
course your gender, and then the fact that you are
(10:37):
full of color and you do call a spade a spade,
and so all of those Do you think all of
those different things kind of compounded the kind of attention
that you got.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yes, you know, at the time I thought, well, anyone
is a CEO telecom is going to get a lot
of attention. But then my successes didn't get really as
much attention. So I think the combination of all those things.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
But it wasn't all bad. It's been at a personal level.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
It's been a great platform for me to get attention
on things i've done since you know, whether they're commercial,
whether they're charitable, And of course girls.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Look up and they go, oh, mummy, I.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Could be a cel, Mummy, I could be Prime minister
or so that that visibility I think is important.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
There's no point being shrinking violence. You don't get Brady
points for that.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
If you have to lead men, which are those days
that the executeam was all.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Male, then you cannot be you know, you can't sit
entirely in your feminine energy.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You have to be able to be tough, and you
have to be able to look like you know what
you're doing, and so those things. Now, I think it's
a bit more nuanced, a bit more balanced. Some some
some more empathetic values are seen as important in leaders
So I think we've we've.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Shifted a bit. But still it's harder to get the
top of the woman, it's harder to stay there.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
There are more penalties for perceived failure, and it's it's
sort of it's still a more difficult balancing actor.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
What is tough enough and what is too tough? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, you've talked about your dad playing quite a big
role in you, I suppose having the courage to step
up into those sort of leadership, and he was sort
of the champion of all four daughters, is the way
that you've described it. I just I loved one of
his sayings, what she used to say when a door shuts,
find a window?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Was he ahead of his time?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Hi? Hell yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
He passed a few years ago, not of COVID, but
during the COVID times. But he had only five sisters,
no brothers, and he was a feminist. I mean, I
there can't be many eighty year old men who are feminists,
but my father was definitely one of those.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I often say that my husband was probably about the
first feminist I met, and he grew up with a
very strong mother and all sisters, and I just think
he looked through that lens of you know, literally a
woman can do anything, and probably better.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Let's talk a bit about what you've.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Done since then, because it's just been absolutely fascinating. I
mean your work and gender pay gaps, the work that
you've done for women's organizations, so perhaps more from that
professional lens as well. And I know that you and
I met probably properly when I was Minister for Women
and you helped me in that role a lot, and
we looked at how we could bring the corporates along,
(13:19):
in particular to look at the gender pay gaps.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Do you think we're still making progress?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah? I do.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
As you know, the sixty odd Champions for Change have
had gen pay gap reporting as a minimum membership standard
for over a year now. So I think governments of
both persuasions have been lacking courage. I think the previous
government had, as you know, the councilor on the councilor
pomative woman. We had been urging them to do this
(13:46):
the whole time they were in government and we've finished
the work. The bill was only introduced weeks before the election.
It was National Party policy to support pay transparency, but
was now a coalition so that isn't as on the
table at the moment, but it should be.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
But the private sector is well.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Ahead on this and so this would be well received
as long as the number of employees is no, it's
not too low. Australia have just reduced a number of
employees that companies must report on from two fifty to
one hundred. So if New Zealand brought a legislation that
was no less than one hundred employees.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Perhaps starting at two fifty, that would be well received.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
And there'll be people that are listening that don't understand
why it's important, but it's you know, if I stripped
it back, I'd go, well, you can't change what you
don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Is that a good start, That's a really.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Good The reason I think politicians don't think it's important
it's because they have it. We would be horrified if
a woman Prime minister was paid less than.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
A male prime minister.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
That doesn't happen in New Zealand because what a prime
minister has paid is transparent, and so you know, that's
what it is. What a cabinet minister has paid is transparent.
That is not the case in very many other occupations.
It's not the case in journalism. Women journalists often are
horrified when they find out what their male contemporaries get.
(15:07):
And so if you, if you, if you have that
sort of opaqueness and that you women don't know and
so yes, of course, as the law, women must be
paid the same as men for doing exactly the same
job and what is it the same job?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And so what all this does really is.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Actually put the onus on employers to look to to report.
I don't think we need a whole registry and body
about it the way ever have in Australia.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
If employers have to monitor it and put it on.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Their website, then then we can all see and you
can and women will know which organizations are.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Working on this tast seriously and where it would be
a good place to work and where it wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. Absolutely, so we're still had a long way to
go do you think so, I mean, I mean, I
feel like we've made progress, but you know, we still
see those occupations that are predominantly female being you know,
not being paid the same and not being recognized the
same either as many of those I mean, you know,
if we sort of went to nursing. I've been with
(16:08):
my mum in the hospital quite a bit lately, and
what an amazing predominantly female workforce. And I just think, man,
I think a man that worked on my car would
be paid more than they are.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, that's back back into how you value jobs.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Have got different similar skills, but one with traditional male
work and one was traditional female work. So yes, all
those caring and all those caring areas traditionally underpaid because
women do it and women are expected to do it
for love, not even for money in some situation. So
it's extension of woman's unpaid labor in the home. And
(16:42):
Nolan Wearing has written a lot on this globally, you know,
is the way we measure GDP. Does it even make sense?
It doesn't count all woman's unpaid labor. So yes, I
think there is a long way to go, And I
think New Zealand still isn't a really good place.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I mean, go right back, woman, run the right to vote.
We all did. It wasn't just wealthy woman, it wasn't
just women who owned property.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
And that sense of women standing together still perbays this country.
We just had a wonderful who we are North Mari woman, Paki,
our woman just going okay, let's stand together for some
of the things that need to happen. So I actually
feel very positive, Paula. I think we matter more to
the world than we realize. And even though we're not
(17:27):
as great as the world thinks, and even though we
know we're not the feminist utopia, one of the good
things the last government did was put abortion rights into
the health back to get it out of the nudge nudge,
wink wink. And look what's happened in America, the rollback
of reproductive freedom.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So I think what's the verson's important for New.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Zealand woman is actually to acknowledge what is working and
what has been achieved and hang on to those games.
Do not let our sons and daughters just take.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
That for granted.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
You've talked a bit about the forties been tough for you.
You know that was when you telecom You had a
relationship breakup. You know, it was you know, a leaky apartment.
You know taught me through that time.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And why you think.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's important to share it because you know, you seem
and you are formidable, intelligent and and you know and
just this fabulous person. But I think it's it's equally
important that we know that we all go through ups
and downs and we can get through them.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I should have done good research for it. Yeah, my
forties was a was a.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Was definitely an unhappy decade, and four years in particular
between about the age of forty two and forty six
with the most difficult time in my life.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
So it was difficult because John and I had separated.
I was alone.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
It was difficult because I hadn't planned for life past telecom.
It was difficult because telecom ended not in the way
that I saw or what have planned for. And my
biggest financial asset was my lovely apartment in Wellington, which
was part of a leaky building. And so that was
difficult because I was unmoored and everyone else just carried
(19:04):
on with their life and so I felt really lonely and.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I didn't know what to do next. I went overseas
with a good friend.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I thought I might live overseas when I came back
to New Zealand and I thought, no, I really loved
this country. I really want my bones buried here. It's
mitering awai Wai. So I decided I had to create
a life that was a base around New Zealand, but
ability to go overseas.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Of course, I had some great friends. My dear friend Margaret.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Ducas subsequently passed away a few years ago. She was
an absolute stormwart and I got going again really.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
First and on the charitable side.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
She took me up to the SBCA and we took
on board the project to turn the old Fever Hospital,
which was derelict, into the new.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Especiation from Willington. That took me.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
I was working hard on that for months and months,
which ended up being years and years, and that took
me out of myself and doing something for somebody else,
in this case animals, but also for the community really was.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
And then opportunities started to come and I started to
say yes, and some worked out and some did it.
But gradually I put a portfolio of life together. And
actually the time I was fifty, my fiftieth party, which
I had in Queenstown.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I felt very happy, but I started early.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Forties very stressed. I went through a very difficult period.
And then after fifty, like at fifty, I became an
entrepreneur because I met Celia Robinson. I shifted to Auckland,
I met Celia Robinson, and then the last thirteen years
have been fantastic, and they've all been about being an
entrepreneur and then becoming a philanthropist more generally because I've
(20:40):
given money to charities, directed of it from my pay
since I was twenty one, but doing that with my sister,
sitting up the Gang Foundation and helping women in you know,
systemic ways like funding the cheerbul entrepreneurip or on university,
but also on personal ways to investing in their businesses
or mentoring them, etc.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
We're going to take a break and then we're going
to talk about the new dating app, which I'm very
excited to talk about.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
But before I get.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
There, I just want to, you know, like, hey, I'm
not suret of good ideas. You know, my staff used
to say, you have fifteen a day, and one of
them might be something we.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Should keep talking about. But you you do more than that.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I mean my food bag, the people who've been around
you know, we'll get into the dating act more. But
I suppose it just impresses me so much that you
see a gap or you need something done the SPCA,
but then you actually have the forty two to make
a plan and then work towards it and do it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Are we teaching that enough?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
That a very good question.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Although I struggled in my forties, I think that builds resilience.
And I do believe that everybody is going to have
a tough time in life at some point, and so
some people it's early on. They can heartbreak early on.
For some people it's later.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
But no one goes through life unscathed, right, no one's life.
It's just a rose, a rose peals lad in their path.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
It's just that some people stuffer publicly and some people
suffer privately. And so some people's challenges are evident and
some people's are not. And if you want to live
in New Zealand, actually you have to be the same
person when you're on top of the well and you're
under the wheel, because you know it doesn't go too
well if you behave differently as a Dame than when
you were the Dame.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I can't remember the question you asked me.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, I just I suppose there's a question.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Really you did touch on it, but as are we
building that resilience in it or more? I don't know
if it's just resilience, because you're not just resilient.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That's a given.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
It's more that you've got that entrepreneur that you can
see a gap in the market. You can then actually
look at what the trends are. And I admire it greatly.
I mean, I've been in public service and then I've
worked for other people, and I've just I always think
that if I had my time again, I would even
be a bit more gutsy and do it myself.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I need to say that because someone today said to
me that I sit comfortably in the space of ambiguity,
and I do. I sit comptively in the space of ambiguity.
I trust that is going to work out, and I
just put one full of set in front of the other,
and I go, this looks like.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
The next thing to do.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
And I surround myself with people who are smarter than me,
who have skills.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
I don't have, and that that means I can.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Multiply my efforts and then I have my wonderful sisen
Chris Woodwicce, who's worked with me for thirty years. So
it's the work of two women you're seeing, not just
one woman the whole time. But yeah, I enroll other
people and then I trust I do not try and
control things at a detailed level. That is that is
a neathma to anything flourishing.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
You have to get great people.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
And you have to let them have their own agency
and then you and then you are navigating, charting, guiding,
but you are not the producer and the director. You
have to actually do this collaboratively because everything in an
entrepreneur you're going to pivot all the time. Everything is
(23:59):
changing all the time. None of us saw the pandemic.
None of us saw what would come after that. The
pandemic was helped with attend. We had already set up
a health business online, so it was fantastic for that.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
For one of to my other businesses, it was dire.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
So it's like, actually, Bill Gates is something I think
is also true, which is to make to generate wealth,
you've got to concentrate. But to keep wealth you have
to diversify and so that's I think that's also a thing.
I'm naturally curious about lots of things denutras subjects at school, so.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I'm never going to be someone who's only in one sector.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
I'm I'm you know, I've got I've got thinkers of
many pies because I'm interested in many different things.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, on that, we take a short break, and then
we need to talk about one of those things, which
is the new dating app, which I'm very excited about.
All right, Dame Teresa, let's talk about your latest venture,
(25:02):
a dating app. You launch Competico earlier this year, and
you've always been very entrepreneurial, as we've already said, so
it'll be no surprise that you found a problem and
you've decided to fix it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I mean, why is Competito different to what else is
out there? I mean, and was it based on personal experience?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
It's most of personal experience.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So a few years ago, I thought, look, I'd like
to try and find a partner again. I've been so
busy with work a long time, and I looked at
the alternatives and they were dire. I was never going
to go on Bumble or Tinder because I'm because I'm
well known. But you know, a lot of people don't
want to do it. It's not safe for women and
(25:46):
even men. It's like if you don't want to meet
your client on there, or your partner or you know,
it's like this UN's a very small place. So a
lot of people really don't want to do the apps.
There weren't for many other options. I went on to
another platform that said it was matching, and they said, oh,
we don't take from any woman over the age of
fifty five, but you know, we might make an exception
for you.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
So it was pretty dire. Anyway, I joined that service.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Did they take me in over fifty five?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
They do, of course they do. Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Anyway, it wasn't just wasn't elegant.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I knew nothing really bad happened to me, but all.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
The things that happened to aman getting as stored up
as I walked into the restaurant, hats hopping photos.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And then e were hearing from the person again, you know,
just all those things that you know.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
It's dating through apps in the last decade has become
so transactional.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
The whole shite culture.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
It's the antithesis of love it's like it's worse than
the second hand car and yet it's love and so
this is it actually isn't an app. It actually it
is optimized for mobile, so you can exits a rebel phone.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
But you go to the website, you can either.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Just book for a fifty minute friends Zoom call or
you can do the short questionnaire and you can sign
up and then there are two levels of service. But
it's a matchmaking agency at its essence, that where you
get a personalized matchmaker to actually work with you through
the journey, or you can join.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
As a gold you go in the singles community.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
You can invite it to the events that we have
and you're available for matching with the platinums.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
So we have had tremendous people coming in. It's like
it is and it's a lovely service. You can pay
to have.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Your photo, you don't have to have a photo, and
the only people who see the photo of the people
you're going to be matched whether it's not public. Your
profile's not public. After or with the matchmaker, they run
up your profile, you approve it and then it's used
only for matching people within the community.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's not public at all.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
You don't have to have a photo, but if you
have a photo, you haven't done with our photographer and
our style. So no photos of men and fish, no
heavily retached photos, no ten year old photos. An experience
of being with Lisa and having your hair and makeup
done and photaken.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
This wonderful.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
So we've got plenty of dating going on, no marriage
proposals yet, but it's it's a lovely experience. It's an
elegant experience. That's you know that the person I want
to achieve is actually do this properly, do this an
adult way.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Don't don't don't turn.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
It into a you know, yesday's fish and chip wrapper culture.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
That's what that's what's happened to dating on the apps.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And so the matching part, so as you say, I'm
either going to do an interview and or a survey,
and in that I might be telling you a bit
about me, and then equally kind of what I'm looking
for or what I think I'm looking for. And then
are you sort of are you are you tested a
bit in that?
Speaker 4 (28:44):
That depends, So yes, you fill out the competit code
of the questionnaire and it's an our zoom call and yes, it.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Is about you.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Some people cry with our matchmakers in that call Pauler,
you know, because they're processing whatever they've gone through.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
It was really important to me because I could see from.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
My own dating experience that we need to have psychologists involved.
Many of the matchmakers have a background as a psychologists,
and we have a psychologist as part of our partnership
as one of my equity partners, Tari Toks, So she's
available to be a psychologist, and we have other psychologists
as well, so people have a choice. But she's also
(29:22):
involved in the whole in the compart Cooda and the
questions and how they're asked. And she writes a column
in the paper. We share something, you know, we share it.
We're trying to actually improve the quality of relationships altogether really,
so she's sharing what she's learned. And so some people
do need a bit of We have had people who
have preferred people who want it too, psychologists within our
(29:45):
sort of fino, because some people do need a bit
of help processing what's happened in their first act.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
And do you think do you think there's someone for everyone?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, I do think there's someone for everyone. I do
think there's.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Because I was thinking, you know, there must be the
odd ones so that the psychologists think, well, either you're
not ready or all you're sort of visiting crazy town
right now, and we might just need to slow it
all down a bit.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
We haven't had anyone like at that extreme.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Okay, if we failt honor if we failed on our
sort of a fifteen minute zoom call, which is free complimentary,
that someone actually just wasn't a good fit, we wouldn't
take their money.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
We would try not to put ourselves in a situation.
But everybody must.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Do a Ministry of Justice check, and we have had
some people fail the Ministry of Justice check.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And I do you have standards?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Like absolutely everyone has to do the MOJ check. So look,
I can't reach confidentiality, but yes we have. There have
been some people who haven't become members because of what's
surfaced in that process.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So then if the psychologists make a match, then do
you just start by talking corresponding that person? We would
do the two of you make the decision as to
whether or when you met face to face and things
like that.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
So say the matchmaker, which is ahead of matchmaking, say
she's got a platinum client could be man, could be
a woman, shows the profile of the other person.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Then other person has asked, you want to go on
back to this person? They say yes.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Then both parties have given each other's mobile numbers and
they decide.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's not all Aucklanders. With Aucklanders, we've got a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Of people from the Bay of Plenty, from Wellington, from
christ Church. The first date was a guy from christ
Church and a woman from Auckland. He flew to Auckland.
The first people who signed up were a woman from
Wellington and a man from toddron Us. So not all
actually all in Auckland, or the matchmakers are all in Auckland.
We've just got started with a Willington matchmaker in the
last couple of weeks and we've just expanded to Wellington
(31:50):
with a matchmaker and photographer. So and that differs too
because in some services it's the man mister Nisia, and
others it's the woman. Were basically people like adults. You
both said you want to go on a date with
this person. You've seen their profile. Usually the profile has
a photo. Most people do get a photo done and
so then.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
They go on a date and then we encourage them
to do two dates.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Not everyone sticks with that, but you know, people can
be nervous, can't always tell, you know, just.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
In one date. We don't really recommend twenty minute coffee dates.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
It's like a dinner date or and at the second
or third dates doing some activity, spending a bit more
time together.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
And Cindy will check in after that date and say,
how did it go.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Get both people's perspective, coach them, encourage.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Them, you know, no one want to know, but they're
acting like adults.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
They tell each other if it's not going to be
a thing, and or if they want to go on
a second date. And at some point we will drop
out of the process, but and carry on matching other people.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
But so far.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
We're you know, people are a few dates, but no
one no one has yet said, okay, right, I'm in
a relationship.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Therefore I don't need you anymore interesting And so have
you been using the service yourself?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Aha, I've been expecting someone to ask me that all week?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, no, how can I put this?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Obviously, when I set this up, I thought there was
a psibility I might meet someone through it.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
That hasn't happened to date. That is not my highest priority.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I'm not in any other services. I told the world
that I'm single, so that has actually bought other things along,
and I don't really want to say more about that
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
So yeah, I had some dreadful dates when I was
single as an MP because I was single for a
long time. I single for like about twenty five years,
and I kind of went through that stage and went,
you know, I think it would be nice to meet someone.
So I decided that what I do is and for
twelve months, I would say.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yes to a date, you know, like that.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Actually I was flee the problem because it kind of
got so independent and faccated and I had fun and
there was no terurable experiences, but there were some not
as good ones. Yes, it's harder when you've got a
public profile.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
It is harder when you've got a public profile. It
definitely is.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
But my experience of dating is that that puts some
then off, but equally.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
It makes something keener.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
And you know, you and I had to have a profile,
that's an issue, but someone else could have something else.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's like it's just you know, what is the perfect.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Anybody who was second or third time around is dealing
with a very different world than I first repartnered it,
you know, at twenty one in university, and so you're
dealing with your own baggage, as you say, and we fixated.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
That's definitely an issue as you get into your fifties
and sixties, are you as open as you once were?
Speaker 4 (34:52):
And also there are real things like busy lives, children, grandchildren,
There are real things to negotiate.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So people move with their own you know, there's no.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Pressure on the timing of this, but boy, there is
a need for the service.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
And of course it is just so disease.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Matchmaking agencies are really common elsewhere, they just have not
really been established a New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
So have you got any tips for people on the
dating scene if you like? I mean, you've said make
it longer than just to quit coffee, and I've taken
that on board.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Not that I'm single, but I.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Don't want what you said actually push yourself out of
your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
It's like so for example, for me, I found that
using another service, they were always like matching me with businessmen,
but that you know, my first partner was an artist,
and it's like, so I'm a very creative person and
you know, my partner might be an architect. Like it's
it's so be open, be open and give people a chance,
(35:55):
give people a chance, be open, trust the process.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
And if you think you might have baggage.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Book a social of the Psychologist's only a couple hundred
bucks and it might be life changing.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
And maybe go in looking for the things that you've
got in common instead of going in looking for the
things that you don't and the things you don't like
about them, because I think we sometimes do that when
we've been single for a little while. It's like, well,
this is my criteria, and I'm just going to go
in there with my top five questions and you know,
and if you don't know, if you don't get four right,
(36:27):
then that's it.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Whereas we actually take some time like.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
A business project, this is non negotiable in there and there,
and there might be a few non negotiable things like
you know, smoking or whatever, but you chuck the checklist
and just see how you feel and.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You know, and give yourself a break, like you.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Don't want to be judged and people don't want to
be judged, and you know, just I always went on
a second date.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I thought there was any potential.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
I never really only occasionally did I say no after
a first date.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, good on you.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Hey, It's just I want to take briefly if I can,
on your on the Getting foundation and the work that
you're do in giving back. And I mean you said
you've always done it, so do you just why because
actually that's not new Zealander's you know what I mean.
I think we do what we certainly do more now
and I know I do, but I wouldn't have thought
of it when I was twenty one. But you were
(37:18):
saying that, you know, I went right back for then
and you've now you foundations.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Two years in, right, So how's that going?
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Well, it's going brilliantly and most of them are hes
done by my wonderful sister Angela Getting.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
But it came from my Catholic background, our Catholic background.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
So although honestly I would cringe now, you know, at
school the boxes went round saying, you know, this is
for poor children Africa.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Like though, we would cringe the idea that actually.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Of giving, of actually sharing what you had, of first
of all appreciating what you have, Ralsia Rondelson have it
and then sharing.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
It in some way. So I think that let's start
with me. I've almost thought.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Energy needs to be in motion and money is just
so I've always been not tight about money. I've always
felt that it well. My father has gave us such
good money value. See, he always believed that you could
create more. There's plenty. I think some people think of
money as a scarce pot and if you have more,
I have less. I don't think about it like that.
(38:18):
I think there's.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Plenty of room for there to be enough for all
of us.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
So that's part of it that wanted to keep it
in circulation. But yes, so from the age of twenty one,
I support an SPCA and women's causes, and I still do.
In fact, I think I've been the same person all
my life.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
It's just that the world's caught up with me. So
during lockdown.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
I wanted to I thought about, Okay, I've got a
bit more time, and how can I make a bigger
contribution Because all my career I've just been giving money
but not had much time to make two and to
equal five. And I'd seen in my work over those
years with the SPA how powerful that could be, and
so I over time convinced my sister She took a
(39:05):
bit of convincing because she was the educational said a
bit of principle for many years, understood the education sector
really well, and she had helped set up to a
key papercuro a charity Pepercura, and grown that, so she.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Knew the other side of it.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
And so it's like I knew one side and she
knew the other side, and we shared some of the
same passions. So we basically set up the foundation around that.
It's just the two of us and Chris Wood was
our third trustee.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
We don't have a bit.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
We lay out clearly on the website the things that
the causes that we're about, and then she does all
the due diligence and then we decide quite quickly and
then we get on with it.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
And so we've done. We don't have any jurkle from boundaries.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
We support projects and people and things throughout New Zealand
and it's very varied. So it's everything from we started
to pay her salary for Sarah pay to the kindness collecting.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Two years we've been paying her apart salary. As you know,
that has grown.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
She's now got a you know, a big warehouse she's
grown from a small West Auckland charity to be throughout
New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
So just enabling her to do what she.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Is doing in scale and scale up with some of
my physical things. We bought an ambulance for this area,
this western Bay Plenty area, because we wanted to honor
the fact that our father had been looked after by
the ambulance so many times and they needed another ambulance.
We bought a proper animal truck for that for the
far north because that's driving huge distances and so there
(40:41):
van had basically worn out. And so sometimes it's a
physical thing. Sometimes we simply sponsor things that are already happening,
like scholarships at Minimal Foundation on First Foundation, or we
set up scholarships with the First Foundation at our old
school in Rochal Ruur which got amalgamate with the boys school.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
We support female scholars.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Sometimes we co create programs, like with Toppy Tower, we
co created a program.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
To inspire.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Girls in their final years of school live who live
in South Auckland. They come for a day and they
get inspired about possibility. And one of the teachers told
me that the second time she bought girls, she said, well.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
The first time.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Only one of those cools was going to go to
university and after this one day they all decide to
go to US an exemple one and I said, wow,
just from this one day program, and she said, just
from the one day program. So someone is quite straightforward
things going a huge impact. More significant perhaps in terms
of the country is the work we've been doing and
she's been doing with Shannon on the East Coast, which
(41:42):
has started with one Kura girls in Terreo Immersion, who
is now many Kurra who are learning robotics.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
We're funding them to learn robotics and so can you imagine.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
How much better off this country would be if girls
from the economically challenged region, the generature region were world
class at robotics.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
It's like if we could harness all the talent.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
So look, I'm quite I'm quite unapologetic about.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
That we fund girls.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
We do sometimes fun boys as well, sort of incidentally,
but our focus is on girls. Is plenty of malcolik
there was you can fun boys, because we're trying to
actually give girls a little bit more of a legger,
you know for what we enjoyed, you know, the life
that we've been able to have.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, I think it's extraordinary and is making a difference.
You know, I've been lucky enough to see some of
the work that you've done over the years, and I
know firsthand when you hear those stories from those girls
and young women is to the difference because if they
can't see it, then they can't do it and they
can't dream it.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
And giving them that kind of hope.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
So I on behalf of New Zealand acknowledge you being
acknowledged this week in getting your dame hood because I
think it's very well deserved and this country is better
off for having you and your sister and all the
others that are around.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And you that support these causes. So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Well, now you get to ask me something, because that's
the way the podcast goes as it's you know, you
get one yet one shot at This isn't my least
favorite book because I just never know.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
What someone.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
I've been thinking about what I would ask you, And
I'm going to ask you, perhaps the obvious quistion because
I had not to ask for Petsy questions.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Because that wouldn't be me, it wouldn't be you.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
But it would be fantastic to have a woman there
of Auckland.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Are you considering it run?
Speaker 2 (43:40):
That's interesting and there is something in leadership and change
that still excites me, I think, and how you do
use the skills and talents that that you've that you've
acquired over a period of time. You know, I'm really
fortunate and that I put my hand up and have
just started in the role as chair, and I must
(44:01):
admit it's quite beautifully consuming me. So I still have
a lot of other things going on. I'm still doing
my work at Bailey's. So in the context of me
giving that one hundred percent, because man, I can make
a huge difference in that organization and for pretty much
all of all New Zealand, right because if we're not
actually needing medicines, then we know someone who is. And
(44:24):
when you're watching people do give a little page. There's
got to be a better way in this beautiful little
country of ours. So at the moment I'm kind of
really focused on that and it's taking a lot and
I think, just Park Well, you suld have said before
you can you know, you don't have to be in
every detail and you don't have to have made every decision.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
You can kind of let something breathe for a while
as well.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I agree, Look, farmac is so worthy.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
I'm just such a huge support of Rachel Smallies and
what she's done to bring this to light.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
And yeah, that you are doing noble work there for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Well, wasn't it great to see her recognized on Yeah,
on King's birth day?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Is weel Elena.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
I imagine it would have meant a lot to her
to have had that recognition from government on behalf of
New Zealanders.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
So I was very pleased for her, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Well, Dame Teresa Getting, thank you very much for taking
the time to chat to me today.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
If they want to find out more, they can go
and look at the website.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
If they want to get on the old dating.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
They can go to competito dot co dot in ze.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Good, or they can go to Getting Foundation dot in
z for the Getting Foundation, or they can go to
my own website, Teresa Getting dot com. There's many ways
to connect with some of the things that I'm working on.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Oh, well, go and do it, I say to everyone,
because that's it for another episode of Ask Me Anything.
You get in touch with me by emailing us Paula
at nzime dot co dot z.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Feel free to send me through your questions, your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I've always loved to hear from you, and you can
find me on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn. Just make sure
you follow. Ask Me Anything on radio or wherever you
get your podcasts. I'm Paula Benett. Ask me Anything.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Goodbye,
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