Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is an iHeartRadio New Zealand podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Women Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
This week on Between Two Beers, we talked to Murray.
Tom Murray is one of New Zealand's most successful and
creative entrepreneurs. He's the man behind some of our most
iconic and successful productions, including the Great New Zealand songbook,
Piano by Candlelight and the Great New Zealand Cookbook. On
the international front, he was executive producer on Celine Dion's
(00:47):
Miracle album, and two of his productions, Miracle and Together,
have both featured on the Oprah Winterfrey Show. In this episode,
we talk about why he left school at fifteen and
how he became the managing director of CBS Records at
twenty three, How he won a government tender for the
personalized plates business in nineteen eighty seven, which at its
peak had a turnover of thirty million and staff of sixty,
(01:10):
How we brought together Celine Dion and then get us,
How he manifested becoming a world champion sailor, his best
business hacks, and all the best stories in between. Murray's
life was made for a long form podcast, and there
are so many brilliant nuggets of business and life wisdom
in this one. It's a super entertaining chat. We also
stoked to tell you about the business we're built. If
(01:30):
you'd like to get one of our epic guests into
MC or speak at your function or event, flick us
a message by going to B to B Speakers dot
co dot nz. In this episode is brought to you
by tap download the new app today and get your
bed on. Listen on my heart or where you get
your podcasts from, or watch the video on YouTube. Enjoy
(01:50):
Murray Tom, Welcome to Between Two Beers. I could not
be happier to be here. We are so excited to
have you in. You came highly recommended to us by
a very trusted source, and my phone call with you
last week made me laugh. Do you remember what you said? No,
you said, ninety minutes seems like a bit long. Can
(02:11):
we make it shorter so the audience is more engaged?
And that was funny to me because your life story
has enough chapters to go six hours, and you may
be the most engaging bloke I think we've had on
here early days or even.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Before we record it. You've captured our imagination, so it's
it bodes well well.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Thanks guys, I'm thrilled to be here. We're going to
have a great time together.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Undoubtedly we're going to get into all the detail of
your life and career. But today aged sixty seven, Yes, yeah,
oh ages yeah, pretty.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Early on the ages remarks, it's terrible to out someone's age.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
You've got them. What is life like? I'd heard a
recent interview where you'd suggested you were just getting started.
Is that how you feel?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Definitely? I mean, my wife and I discuss.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Retirement only in the way that I'm never retiring, you know,
I really you know, life for all of us goes
very very fast, but there is so much wonderful work
still to be done. I feel highly energized. If ever
I want a happy thought, I think about my future.
That's where I get my inspiration from. That's the fuel
that keeps me going. So a lot of great work
(03:27):
still to be done, I hope.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So take us to current day, Murray, What is life?
What is your week? What does your weeks look like
at the moment?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, you know, I go to an office every day.
I don't work from home. It's not good for me
to work from home. I like to be around people,
and you know, I've still got projects which are very
very dear to my heart, which I'm pushing forward or
trying to push forward on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And do you feel energized? Is every day full of
We're going to bring in the family soon, they're going
to speak about this. But you know, where does your
energy come from?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think energy comes with inspiration, and I think if
you've got inspiration, then the energy will be there. And
I think when you lack inspiration, that's when you often
lack energy. And sometimes when we feel discouraged, you know,
people feel of course, we all feel discouraged from time
to time. But I think if you've got a strong
vision that it's dear to your heart.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
For me anyway, that's fuel.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That is the fuel that keeps me going in my
desire to do noble work that's going to not only
feed my own soul, but hopefully feed the soul of
the people that I'm presenting my work too.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, when I spoke to you on the phone, I
said that your life has been made for a long
form podcast, and this is the longest form podcast I
think you've been on. And I'm really looking forward to
getting into the detail. I want to start by bringing
in Haley and the way we do things as we
go around and we ask them of your friends and
family for their sort of interpretation or perception of our guest,
(04:57):
and strap in because there's a little bit to get
through here, but I think it paints a nice picture.
Hailey writes. The funny thing is that he's super our there,
the loudest one in the room, and always trying to
be the funniest and all that in public, but he's
actually the same at home. Like every time me and
my brother and sister would arrive home, it's like it's
the best thing that's ever happened to him. He'll open
(05:20):
the door and he's like, oh my gosh, this is
the best ever. Life's so great now you're here. There's
not really an off button. He's either fully on or
he's asleep, there's no in between. Always so positive. Every
single day of his life is like the best day
of his life. Everything is very exciting. He's always been
a really engaged dad, engaged with what we're saying, engaged
(05:41):
with what we're doing. He never pushed us, but was
always open for chats about what we wanted to do next.
I couldn't count the number of conference talks we've gone
to when he's been the motivational speaker, and he hates
that word. I sure do, but we've sat there and
listened to hundreds of those, and I've picked up so
many one liners and so much advice that I just
take as normalized. There's some very ingrained stuff that we
(06:04):
don't realize. Probably the biggest thing, which he probably doesn't
say explicitly, is that he doesn't think that any idea
is too big to achieve. No matter what your idea is.
He thinks there's a way to make that happen. There's
nothing that's out of bounds to talk about, or to
think about or to dream. And if we do have
an idea, he's like, yeah, let's make that happen.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Good old Hayley yay.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Does that sound right to you?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, Well that's her perspective, so you know, you've got
to honor her however she sees it. But I'm you know,
it's great. Yeah, I think that. You know, we talk
about the glass half full and the glass half empty,
don't we, And I'm I guess I'm grateful that I'm
my default position is a glass half full. I look
(06:50):
at things through a positive lens, and I'm very grateful
that I'm wired that way. Not everybody is.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Where did that again? Where did you first start to
notice that you have this different outlook on life to
other people?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
My mum is currently ninety four, still very much, you know,
vibrant and alive, and I think I got I've got
a lot of my personality.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
From my mum.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, she's a great people person, a great gatherer
of people. She wants people to be happy, she wants
to you know, you know, she's you know, she probably
reads one hundred books a year, even at a hundred
even a one hundred books at a hundred years old,
you know, but she's fully engaged. So I give my
(07:32):
mum with a lot of credit for how how my DNA?
Of course, are you still doing the daily walks? Is
she still for the up for the beach walk?
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Looks she's up for anything.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Mum and I often have a you know, between two wines,
you know, some evenings at around five o'clock. So yeah,
I see my mum both at most days. So yeah,
she's a real inspiration to me.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It's a recurring theme.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We had Jason Gunnan here a little while ago, who
recently unforetuately lost his mum, but spoke so beautifully about
her and her memory and the influence that she's had
on his life as his I guess biggest cheerleader hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Same for you, one hundred percent. And you know it's interesting.
You know I was, you know, I was just a
little bastard. You know, I really was, you know, And
my mum used to say, you know, if you can't
say anything nice, don't speak. So between the ages of
twelve and fifteen, I don't recall a saying a word
to me. But you know, but she was always very
much a cheerleader in my life and very much believed
(08:28):
in what I could do.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, because those early years, I mean, you're self confessed
you left school at fifteen. School, I think you've said
if you could have left school at twelve, you would have,
because you wasted three years of your life.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeh, we wasted the three of the best years of
my life. Left with my FSC, which stands for failed
school certificate.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Which a lot of people listening won't even know what
a school certificate is anyo.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, they'll know what any achievement is, and it was
none of that, so, you know, left with no qualifications.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
When you did leave.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Was it a big, wide world that you saw, not
just a world of opportunities.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Or was it no, it was a Look.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You know, I had so many jobs on the way through,
you know, I decided I wanted to be a brick
layer that lasted one day. I had all these little jobs.
But in fact, it was my mum who found an
ad in the paper at CBS Records for a sales
rep paid eight thousand dollars a year, came with a
company car, and I was interviewed by a guy called
John McCready. And that interview, that job and have you
(09:21):
completely changed my life and changed the course of my life.
So that was how I got into the music industry,
and that just set me off, you know, and life
was never the same after getting that job.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
We've had a chain of super successful people that have
left school early. You know, it's been a really common
theme with these high achievers. When you look back, is
there anything school could have done differently for you? Or
were you just just wasn't meant for you that part.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Look, look, let's take our hats off to the teachers
that have thirty different kids in the room and they're
trying to you know, look, they've got to just stick
to the syllabus.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Don't they.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm not going to make any commentary on education. I
didn't do well, but I did well in other areas
of my life, not just you know, outside of school,
and so life wasn't so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, And tell me about the influence of your dad,
because he was a builder, by.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Very very hard working builder.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
You know, Dad left school when he was twelve, and
you know, he went to work. You know, Dad was
raised during the Great Depression. Dad's father went to debts
prison during the Great Depression because he couldn't pay his bills.
So think about that. Think about what that does to
(10:43):
who he was and his upbringing. And so he just
worked incredibly, incredibly hard. He said that. You know, Dad
never put anything on hire purchase ever. I think probably
as a result of the experience that it had with
his own father. And so, you know, dad, debt was
a very bad thing for Dad, and so that was
how he was raised. So you had Mum gregarious and
(11:06):
our going and Dad who lived his life his way,
you know. But Dad taught me to sal I'm very
grateful for that and you know, you know, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
You have always had a love of the water, right, definitely?
Is that where you draw a lot of.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Your inspiration from being out and about in nature?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Well, they say, you know, you know, they talk about
they joke about being in the shower.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
How it gives you. I think anything around water is
very good for inspiration.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, we'll be right back after this short break. So
link us up to CBS Records. Because you leave school early,
you don't get the qualifications, but then at nineteen you
get a job as a sales rep and this links
you up to becoming the managing director at twenty three. Yes,
(11:52):
so nineteen to twenty three take us to the beginning
of that path and how you made such a rise.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Interestingly enough, I answered an ad in the paper for
PolyGram Records, a different record company. It was through a
personnel company. You know, you go through personnel company. And
I had an interview and I never heard from them.
They didn't tell me if I was good, bad, or whatever.
Two weeks later I went for an interview at CBS
(12:19):
Records and John McCready employed me on the spot.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
By the way, on the spot, i'd be in.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
That job at CBS for two weeks when the recruitment
company wrung me back for my second interview at PolyGram.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
It was interesting though.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That affected me so much that I've hardly ever used
recruitment companies in my entire career because I decided that
they didn't they were spontaneous enough. They didn't give enough
encouragement to the person on the other side of the table.
John McCready changed my life. I started as a sales
rep at CBS. I then went through long story short,
(12:52):
went through.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
A long story long.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
No, no, we've got enough stories to make all a
long story short. And so you know, sales rep, then
promotions person. I went to the radio stations to get
records played, get videos played on the.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Likes of Ready to Row, all radio pictures, ask your parents.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
No, no, no, I was around on a Friday.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Oh really, Okay, okay, you sure? Good for you, Seamus
and so and so did well with that. Then ran
the marketing department. John McCready was going to run CBS
Australia and he put me forward to run CBS New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
But you're right, Steve.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
He gave me that opportunity when I was twenty three
years old with no qualifications. At twenty three years old,
I was running a major record company with thirty staff.
The staff hated that appointment like that was not good
news for them because I was about the youngest in
the company, and I don't think they I'm pretty sure
they thought I couldn't do the job. I'm pretty sure
(13:51):
they thought I was the wrong appointment. And there was
a lot of chat within the company themselves to say,
this isn't working, this is a disaster. I'd had no
management experience, had no HR experience. We didn't even have
HR back in the day. Bring it back, can bring
it back?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
The lack of h Yeah, yeah, those are the days
you could fire someone like that.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
One hundred come on down the road. They used to
call it. What do you walk?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Do you ever walk anybody out?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I got walked a few times.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I got the thirty staff in in my first week
on the job, to the boardroom and said, hey, most
of you think I can't do this job.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
I get that, but here's what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I'm going to give you the weekend to think about it,
and on Monday, you're either gonna give me your resignation
or you're going to give me your best.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
It's one or the other. And we fixed that problem.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like that, and we just and then we just that
was certainly some of the happiest days of my life.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Okay, stop there, Well twenty three I thought to pick
a part of this, so twenty three and to have
the balls to do that, to be in that position
in the first place, but then to have the balls
to say, right, I'm going to meeting him with everyone
and some of them are questioning the decision to put
you there and just to come out with you yes, Like,
(15:10):
where does that come from? Exactly?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And that's what I'm saying in this day and age
hr would be having meetings with small groups for six
months to try and get some unity. But it was like,
we're either doing it together or we're not, but let's
not talk about it forever.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And I'm thinking, I thought that showed a lot of wisdom.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You think you're right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I don't know where it came from, but boy, we
fixed a problem real quick and we got a united
team real quick.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And I'm proud of that.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And is that just you decided? Are you talking to
anyone about this is what I'm going to do?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Out of mine at twenty three years old, fixing a
problem that we've got and fixing it real quick.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
When you reflect back on that story, now, do you
think that's that's what sets you apart, that's why you've
gone on to have the sort of success you have.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well, I think it's just a matter of just doing
the right I don't know, just doing it the right thing,
just you know, making good decisions.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Is it a gut of course it is.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I can imagine when you when
you are I mean, I'm reflecting back on me at
twenty three, There's not a chance I'm having that conversation
or that meeting with people. Yes, So I wonder if
that's a reflection of the eighties and what the eighties
were like quite I don't know, Like my vision of
it is young go getters. There was kind of a
(16:21):
yuppy culture. I'm I'm not sure whether that where that
fits in the timeline. But if you want it, you've
got to go out and get it.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, I mean, look, it's it was free.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
You need to understand that the eighties was very long
lunches and all the things that nobody does anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, No, wonder, there's no inspiration?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Was it when you get into that position as well?
Was it I've got an idea and we're going to
do it.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Did you? Did you go to meetings of quorum decisions?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And the great news about running CBS Records the greatest
company in the world, was that every week you were
releasing the world's top artists, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen, you know,
Barbara Streis and you name it. We had the very
very best and what was like a kid in a
candy shop that we had a team of people taking
(17:12):
the world's greatest music to our local market, which was
New Zealand. So that was how I cut my teeth,
was just on sales and promotion and all that thing
in the music industry.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Which I love. I think for reference as well.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
CBS then became Sony, it did entertainment, so it's exactly
a huge deal even then.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Oh yeah, but you know, CBS was just the great
Bob Dylan, I mean, all the top artists were on CBS.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Amongst your peers. So part of this job you're mixing
with Michael Jackson, Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, George Michael Freddie Mercurys.
This is what are your friends saying. I thought, well
that you've got the most incredible job in the world.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
It was the most incredible job in the world.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know, it's you know, there's just no doubting that
it was, you know, and I have you know, we've
entertained and with all those people, so it's very very cool.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah, it's a different It's almost cyclic now, isn't it.
Where music was a live experience initially, and then it
became an album and you listen to it at home.
Then streaming came along and it sort of took away
the interaction you had, and then almost now to get
that feeling, you've got to go to live events again.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And also, you know, let's not do the economics of
the music industry, but you know live is where the
money is.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah, but in those days like acts, I mean, these
names that we've read it off, you're literally rubbing shoulders
with them while they're here in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Absolutary we were hosting them, which a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, there's a you send us your book, which I
can't recommend highly enough. I really enjoyed it. Eat Trink
can be Murray and there's a story in there about
when you were with Men at Work, and I was
wondering if you could do us a favor and retail
that one.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Best story ever. So Men at Work.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Australian band, as you know, come to New Zealand and
we're looking after them and they've got they've got their
album business as usual with the hits down Under and
who can it be now, and you know, all that
good stuff. I take them to a nightclub and you know,
they just made number one in America, number one, first
in New Zealand, second Australia. They're now number on America.
(19:13):
They're the biggest band in the world. And we're at
an Auckland nightclub and we go there. This is the eighties,
and we you know, we might have had a couple
of beers while we were there. And I am driving
them back to their hotel at two or three in
the morning and we get pulled and I've got the
whole band I'm driving, and the whole band is in
the car right and the colored lights come on behind
(19:35):
and the cop pulls me over. And as the cop
comes up behind, I say to the band, I'm sorry, guys,
but I have to go now. And I get out
of the car and climb over a fence at Auckland University.
And so now the cops on one side of the
fence and I'm on the other, and the cops like,
come over. And I left men at work in the car,
(19:56):
never went back, and the following day caught up with
them again. But you know, and then that's of course
story went round the world. And I said, you know,
and I think I said at the time, gets you
fired in a normal job, makes you famous in the
music industry.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
It's like, you know, that sort of behavior.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Was you know, you know, you did quite well to
be perfectly honest, because it sort of added to your reputation.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
But yeah, and the band loved it.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
They absolutely loved it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I love the detailed there of you on one side
of the sorry I'm not coming, I'm not coming good times, right,
there was a rock and roll lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, but listen, look, you know, just so you know,
like I've never been a heavy drinker at any time,
and I've never taken drugs, so yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Which which I imagine and when you're working in that field,
people probably think, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Murray, oh for god, you know, and because I'm a
little bit hype, I got asked for drugs, you know,
my whole life. You know.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Yeah, I just said I was into life sniffing.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That's a good one use. Okay, So take us to
twenty five because in your book you reflect on from
the outside things were look like you had it all,
but that wasn't how you were feeling inside.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah, that's that's very, very true. You know. When I
was around about that stage of my life, I.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You know, was going out with the best looking girl
in Auckland who I later married, by the way, living
on the cliff at Takapoona overlooking the water, and running
a multinational record company. But I just felt I felt
a leanness in my soul. That was all, you know,
Like I just thought, God, there's got to be more
to it. And that was actually at the time that
(21:36):
I renewed my faith.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I was brought up in the Sunday School at Koe Marram,
a Presbyterian, and I just felt that I had I
was lacking God in my life and I just wanted
to make my peace with God again. And you know
that that was important to me to do that. But
it was interesting I went around to my brother Barry's
house and just said, listen, I just want to sort
(21:59):
of just recalibrate with God, if you will, and had
a chat to Barry about it, and then I, you know,
I woke up the following day thinking, gee, I'm running
this record company. You know, obviously I'm going to have
to leave and become a missionary. You know, I just thought, well,
that's what you do. You don't run a record company.
And obviously, you know, God just had other plans and
(22:19):
kept me in that role, which I'm very happy about.
As I said at the time, you know, the closest
thing I got to Africa was promoting Toto, you know,
so you know that was but yeah, so that was
you know, but I just carried on running that. But
I guess I just sort of found myself recalibrated my life,
and that was very very important to me.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Was it eventually that the role and you're feeling couldn't
coexist at the same time and you felt you needed
to do your own thing.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
No, No, not at all. I was actually very very
happy to do that job.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But I always had a strong desire to be self
employed and to run my own business, and so I
left the best job you could ever have to run
my own business. And you know you talked about Haley before,
and of course Hailey my first daughter. She was born
the night that I left CBS record. I went from
my farewell party at CBS to National Woman's Hospital and
(23:10):
I was self employed and a father on the very
same day. So you know, it was a massive change
of life.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, can we take into that a little bit more like, yeah,
why why are you going from such a high paying,
perfect job to try to start your own thing with
a child on the way.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I don't know, Steve, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I just.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I'd learned a lot running CBS and I wanted to
have a go. I guess that's a symbol. And and
I worked out that, you know, if we could earn
I think it was at that time, like fifteen or
twenty seven thousand. I think it was that we could
put food on the table, pay the mortgage at twenty
seven thousand, and if it didn't go, I could go
(23:57):
and get a job again. But at least we tried,
and I've got to say it, Ann was very very encouraging.
You know, who wants a husband to leave a good
job when you've just had your first child. But she
was very encouraging and we had to go. And you know,
I haven't had a job since, you know, or working
for somebody else anyway, from that day to this. So
I've been self employed for about thirty eight years.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Now.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Were there some scratchy times in years? Because yeah, of.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Course, but but also a lot of adventure, a lot
of adventure. You know, I think that that's really you know,
talk about better work stories. You know, you meet people
and what do you do and they're sort of like, hello,
nothing going on?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
You know. Yeah, you know, we've had.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
A huge amount of adventure and business adventure, which I'm
extremely excited about.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Where did cat Patrol fit in that sense of adventure?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Jeus, You've got that out of nowhere us shameless you
even listening to the interview.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Oh my god, I'm thinking I'm thinking of you dad
building that bond with my daughter.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Shameless.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I'm with you and good for you, brother, and welcome back.
So when I became self employed, I'm working from home
and I've got this new baby. So every day I
would put Haley into the chare into the pushchair, and
we would go on cat patrol and just walk around
the neighborhood looking for cats Andre and that was that.
But yeah, look, you know, you know, starting over was
(25:24):
really really interesting, you know, because you go from being
the CBS records guy with the mana that comes with
that to being nobody.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
You're really just starting again. So it's it's it's a
really interesting phase actually, but a very exciting one.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So this is where the story, from my opinion, gets
a little bit convoluted. And I'm going to link you
up to when you met Cayl doy and we talk
about Piano by Candlelight. But before then, there's a period
where you sign Dave Dobbyn, you produce the Loyal album,
you link up with Billy T. James on ten News,
you're an agent for John Kerwin and David Kirk. This
(26:02):
is all sort of happening around the same time, very.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Much the same time.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And so what how is? How are you? How is Steve?
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You half asked the question, you said, you know, you know,
like what are you? What are you?
Speaker 1 (26:16):
What are you?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
That's a good question. You know, I'm a person looking
for opportunities to provide for my family, and just you know,
that's what I am.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
And all those things.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
You know, Dave, Dobby and I got together for Loyal
I looked after David Kirk and John Kerwin during the
nineteen eighty seven when they won the World Cup for
the first time, working with Billy Ty James. All that
was happening all at the same time. And of course,
and of course I don't know where you want to
go next week, go anywhere, but wherever you are, well, no,
And of course you know I met Carl Dory at
roughly the same time, and roughly the same time. You know,
(26:51):
we we tended for the personalized plates bringing that into
New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
There's a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, there's some beautiful serendipity about all of those things, Yes,
happening happy accident or deliberate choices.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
No, there's no deliberate voices in that lot. I don't think.
I think, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I love the words serendipity, you know, rather than happy accidents.
It's serendipitous, you know. Anyway, That's how I look at.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It and my read on it, and correct me if
I'm wrong, and I'm sure you will correct me if
I am wrong. But it's not necessarily all out for
financial gain. It seems you just do you do things
because you want to and you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And to this day, look, I am not going to
be the richest guy in any room, probably even.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
You definitely are this one. I don't produce, Sam, don't.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I just want to do work that I love, you know,
And I know that's the old thing, but you know,
you know, money has not been my motivator.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, I think, sure, Yeah, I don't. I don't think
that's that's that's why we do what we do. Yeah,
this is the favorite, our favorite part of the week,
isn't it wonderful? And if you can, if you get
the opportunity to do it and to earn a living,
make lots of money, but it's really fulfilling.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Yeah. It was interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
When I left CBS.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I was reporting to the President of America, a guy
called Alan Davis, and I said him, I was going
to go. And because of course, the corporate life you're
in that forever, you know, I could still be in
the corporation now that I was in forty years ago,
and you know, and he received my resignation. He said,
good for you, Murray, and he said, and he paid
me a small amount of money. He said, I just
(28:34):
want to keep on the payer. I said, no, Alan,
I'm leaving, goes Murray, You're not listening. I want to
keep paying you money and I'm helping you get on
your way. And I thought that was incredibly generous of
him to do that, you know, Yeah, just fantastic.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I love that detail in the book. Yeah, just give
me someone a helping hand exactly, and they don't even
know what they need, because that's so true, so true
you need Yeah, before I get to Carl, So this
period where we talked about Dave Dobbin and Billy t
and John Kerman and David Kirk, have you made a
bit of a name for yourself. People know you as
a guy who can be trusted and as competent as that.
(29:06):
How you've you sort of linking all these relationships.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Together, Well, I think that you know, your work should
do all the talking, shouldn't it. You know, you know
you've either got a history of good work and good
relations as well. Some people, you know can not put
those two together, but good work has to go with
good relations So that you know, you've hopefully got a
whole lot of people who enjoyed their time with you
(29:29):
would be happy to work with you again. I think
that's very very important. Every day we need to draw
on our contacts and people that we've worked with or
that we would like to other people that we would
like to work with. And it's only our reputation that's
going to open doors for us, that's for sure. So
I think to build strong relationships is very very important.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I'm skipping ahead to kind of business hacks or lessons
from from Murray, but I've heard you say that the
work you do this year is what helps you get paid.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It absolutely, you know, you know the quality of this
year's work will determine next year's opportunities.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, it's such a great way to Yeah, such a
great outlook to have.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
It's it's so true, so true.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
We've got a big home straight of business hacks we're
going to make. I'm still minutes. Don't worry hugging out
of here any sooner. I just want to do you
have still still have relationships with with all those names,
not not Billy t obviously, but Dave, Dobbert, d Verry.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I mean, listen, Dave, David Kirk, you know wrang me.
Just three weeks ago we went to the All Blacks
Together to an all Blacks game together. So you know,
I'm you know, I'm very, very fond of David. I
think he's one of He should be on the show, by.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
The way, he's Yeah, we knows, we put out a
he He would be fantastic dream guest.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
You should get him.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Honestly, he's just one of life's great guys, so smart, unbelievable. Yes,
in touch with her, of course, Dave and I are
still great friends.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, we'll be right back after this short break. Okay,
I want to link us up to Carle at the Regent. Yes,
and this is such a cool story, but take us
to the very beginning. You're having dinner at the Regions.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
So Anne and I we go out for dinner. We
go to the Region for a cup of coffee.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
The Region.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
God, that's been renamed so many times that hotel to
Stanford Now, yeah, something like that.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I don't know, well, the courters, who knows?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Holiday in I I like the way you retail stories,
but you actually go back to where you were and
what the name was there.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
It's not like, yes, chilling in the holidays. So and
Anne and I walk in, We're having a cup of coffee.
There's only two of us there By the way, pianist
is playing in the corner, and I said to Anne
and I'm so this is interesting. I've only been out
of running my own record company for CBS for about
six months. I'm not in the music industry now, you
(31:55):
know who knows what business I'm in. And I'm listening
to Carl And I said to Anne, whoever's playing that piano,
I'm going to sign.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
So I went.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Across, introduced myself to Carl Dey said I'd like to
do something with you. Carl, by the way, has played
in lobbies his whole life. He's heard that so many times,
you know, and people never get back to him.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Interesting part about that story. I was very excited about that,
unusual And went back to the hotel the following night,
and as I was walking in, I was listening to
the piano. I'm thinking, oh, I've made a terrible mistake.
That doesn't sound so good. And it was a different pianist.
So Carl just had the touch, he had something very
special about him. Got hold of Carl and together we
(32:37):
worked it out in nineteen eighty seven and we did
an album called Piano by Candidate. Ask Your grandparents on
that one. We're going way back, and you know, meeting
Carl life highlight for me. He's just, you know, just
one of life's incredible people. We've had a working relationship
for nearly forty years now and we've just done some
(32:58):
amazing work together. But he is just incredible talent.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And at that time, Richard Claydman, I don't know, you
guys wouldn't He was a pianist in the day.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Look I read again, ask your nana.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
He was huge, sold lots of piano albums, and everybody said, look,
we don't need Carl because we've got Richard Klaytonman. Anyway,
it went to number one, huge hit, and then wherever
you want to go after.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
That, Yeah, I want to keep telling the story. So
what does that mean? You put this album together? It
goes really well, like what does it actually mean?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
It's interesting gate having left a major record company, I'm
now going with my own artist back to a record company.
And the word was, oh, Paul Murray, you know, he's
left and he's come back selling elevator music, you know,
and so there was a lot of negativity. But remen, look,
I used to be the man in the chair, and
(33:52):
now I'm the man with the staple gun, putting the
posters up and the shop windows and taking stock and
trying to get this artist called Carl doy established. That
was a great time of life. It really was talk
about roll your sleeves up and get it going. And then,
of course, you know, we just kept making. You know,
we did Piano by Candidate, and because I'm a marketing genius,
(34:13):
I called the next one Piano by Candilight two for
those of you making notes, and that actually outsold the
first one double over, and then we got it released
all around the world. So it was very very exciting.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Are you selling the vision at that stage?
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Very much so?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And how are you doing?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
But we're always selling.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We're always selling the vision, aren't we, see, Seamus, that's
possibly your best question so far.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Okay, if you want to make a note of it,
because life is all.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
About articulating your vision, whatever it is, whatever business or
service that you're in. Your ability to articulate your vision
is everything in business. So you're right, And with Carl,
I have to cast a vision to him for starters,
which I think was the basis of your question, and
then you've got to cast it to the record companies
(35:03):
and the record stores and the media outlets and new stories,
whatever it might be. We continually retell our story over
and over again.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
That's what we do. You know. Oh, there's so much
I'd like to go to from here.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But anyway, please please no? Well no, because I was
going to go to the Great New Zealan Cookbook from there.
But anyway, carry we don't have to go.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
No, we'll find it. We'll find it even without notes,
I can remember.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So how long after you say it's good? I'm trying
hard not to look at them now, because how long
after that first album comes out do you know it's
a success?
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Oh? Straight away?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
And what does that mean financially?
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Financially that's a different sort of success.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
But because you've got the top forty charts every week,
you know of something successful straight away, So you know
you're coming at number fifteen and next to you just
hang out every week for the top forty charts and
where am I? And you know when Carl and I
got our first number one record, that was very very exciting.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, did you celebrate?
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Possibly, But there's any reason to get too excited.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
No, But I've heard you say you've got to celebrate,
and we probably don't. As a we probably don't celebrate
our successes enough in general.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Look, look, why don't we just have a little chat
about that. We could do this in business hacks, but
let's bring it forward a little bit. You know, I
always say that, you know, you know, running a business
or starting a business is very much like having a baby.
You know, you have your baby and back in the
day you'd put the birth notice in the paper. Harry
and Sally have had Caleb rejoice with us and they're
telling the whole world that don't care, but they've had
(36:41):
a baby. And I think it's very important when you've
conceived something in your business, you've conceived it, you've labored
over it, and you've brought it to birth, as you
guys have done with your business. That's when you know,
when a baby is born, you talk about with the
baby's head the champagne. We've got to celebrate. And one
thing I think we do very well is we celebrate
(37:04):
whatever it is that we're bringing to the market. Why
we're incredibly proud of it. And I'm telling you this,
if you're not celebrating, it's because you're not proud of
what you're doing. It's as simple as that. The party
comes as a result of a job well done. And
I'm very much into.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That, Mike drop.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, And if you have those moments of inspiration, don't
wait for the lenear part of the story, just leap
into them, because that's sometimes when you're probably sitting, when
you're sitting on our side of it. I heard you
say that on another interview on the drive up, and
I thought, he's so so right. We get bogged down
in the detail of what do you want to do
next and how do we do this, versus just being
present in the moment and going wow, yes, look at
(37:44):
what we've done.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, And you know, you know it says, you know,
out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
In other words, if you've got something that's in your heart,
it'll come out time and time and time again, regardless
of what product but you're doing. But like you know,
if we're doing the Great New Zealand songbook, for instance,
I'm going to talk about that, talk about that, talk
about that Great New Zealan cookbook, talk about Miracle with
(38:06):
Celine Dion. I'm going to talk about that, talk about that.
You know that that's what it is. It's just in you.
You're so passionate about it because you've conceived it.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, and that's not scripted, right, that's just that's.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Just pouring hundred percent, one hundred percent head to mouth,
heart to mouth, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I mean, any you know, forget you're blooming What are
those terrible things that people doing meetings?
Speaker 4 (38:24):
They got the thing PowerPoint PowerPoint? Oh my god, don't
ever do.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
That, do you because you run a few keynotes as well.
Not as a motivational speaker.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
But it's not going to use PowerPoint as what I'm
gonna say.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's like, you know, you know, you know, my son
gave me a greatness says you know, if you're taking minutes,
you're wasting hours. You know, don't do meetings. Nobody should
ever be in a meeting ever for any reason.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah. I love that piano. But piano piano by Candle
Gold Candle Light enters the top forty chart. Michael Jackson's bad.
Oh yes, that's that's right. That is that's going to
be a celebration moment. Have a party for that.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
That's so true to forgot about that.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Carl Dory piano by can what is the head of
Michael Jackson's bad album I've Break?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Was that that is incredible? It is yeah, yeah, for
elevating music. Were you rubbing a few people's noses in
a nice way? That look the elevating music, sweetness.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Look's for starters. Let's stop talking about it referring to
it as elevated music. That was my joke that I
don't want to get to hijack I've done. But it's like,
I'm not trying to rub anybody's nose in it. We're
just so proud of what we've done and the fact
that the market has seen what we saw. You know,
when people you know, when you could see something and
(39:40):
then the market sees that.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
That's very, very satisfying.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So for the next decade, you release a new album
sort of every year or two, and I want you
to link us up together. But through that period, what's
the most interesting part of that? Is it just that
there was demand to keep churning them out.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Good one Steve, I think that.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It's like when we started, we had no budget to
make great music. Like it was like Carl was making
a little go a long way. As time went on,
we started recording with the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra and
our recordings became absolutely world class.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
That was a big moment for us. Over time.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Also, yes, we moved on and we did a product
called the Together ten CD Collection.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
It was very elaborate.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
It had photos from Jeff Blackwell's Milk photographic collection and
we put our music to go with it. It was great,
It was just phenomenal. And that is the product that
we sent to the Oprah Winfrey Show. And she only,
of course gets a thousand products a minute, so you know,
but that you know, we were just rung one day,
completely out of the blue to say that Oprah had
(40:48):
taken our Together collection and named it one of her
favorite things for the year. She put it on her
Favorite Things show, which was completely and utterly mind blowing.
When she held up the Together Collection, which wasn't in
store we had it, we were selling it online, she
held up and she said, this could be my favorite
of all the favorites, was a Together ten city collection,
(41:10):
And when she held it up, we took two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars worth of orders an hour.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
An hour.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
My mum always said you need to be in a
business that makes money while you sleep, and that was
a perfect example of that. But I wasn't sleeping, I
can tell you that was that was one of the
most exciting things of my whole life was to have that.
But you know, here's the thing. Circle back, because this
is really, really, I think, really interesting, is that, Yes,
we have a product on the Oprah Winfrey Show. But
(41:41):
come back with me to the you know, the hotel
where Karl is playing to just Anne and I and
you think, oh, somebody should record the pianist. And then
you go home and you have a cup of tea
and a ginger and you say to yourself, or if
he's that good, why isn't somebody already signed him? Or
if he's that good, why is he playing to no one?
Speaker 4 (41:58):
You know?
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I mean, you know, people don't do anything with that
first little idea they've got, you know, And now we're
on the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
So I'm just you know, it's completely.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
It's such a wild story.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's a wild story, but it's so But I've got
I've got a hundred of those stories.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
You actually do I do. I want to dig in
on this one because I watched back that clip of
Oprah talking about it, and she's like every time she
mentions and it's got these artists and it's this and
the crowd's law and holler. And I can't imagine that
as being broadcast on New Zealand TV. Right, that's just
an America and you're hearing about it. Yeah, so do
you hear that she's talked about your thing for ninety seconds?
(42:38):
The president of Sony Music America wrung me up. He said,
I've just seen together on the Oprah Winfrey Show. Strap
yourself in. Yeah, like it's going to be me And
it was massive. That was a whole life highlight. Could
you keep up with demand?
Speaker 4 (42:53):
We could not.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Yeah, what was the state of the internet in two
thousand and two?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
That it was terrible.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
But we had this little thing where we could where
if you press the button, it refreshed how many of
your sales you did? You know?
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And I just sat there for three days pressing refresh.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
You know, knowing that we'd made a few bucks off
each one, which is it was very, very exciting. But
you know, that just gives you a little look into
what life can be, you know, you know again, go back,
Hey there. I always had the staple gun at the
record store and people are saying, I'm selling elevator music and.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Fast forward we make it onto the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
But how many people are prepared to be take the
big chunk of humble pie and take a big step
backwards in the first place?
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Not many, if any, Thank you scribe.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
That's it from the Great New Zealand Songbook.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
So after that initial hit, what does the next like
year look like for Together? Are you having to bring
on more staff and chipping it out every week?
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Look?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
To be honest, it finishes as quickly as it starts.
On those shows, you know, you sell a ton and
then of course, but yeah, no it did. Sales have
always been very, very good. But you know, just that
rush was just exceptional. But then Karl and I did
continue to, you know, make and sell a number of
albums and we still are to this day after that time.
(44:17):
But then, you know, yeah, there's so many things I
could say, but yeah, carry on.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
There will be some people who don't know what the
Together ten actually was. It was a combination of music.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
It was ten CDs primarily where we did the music
of you know, the Beatles and Streis and Sinatra and
all that kind of thing, but it was presented in
a beautiful book.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, you do have one hundred of these stories, and
there's one that I've heard you kind of brush through,
almost like you don't like talking about it, which I
can understand, but for anyone else it would be like
the major chapter in the story, which is personalized plates. Yes,
and you won the government tender to market personalized number plates,
and you did it for a decade.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Is there a reason that you kind of would rather
talk about other things?
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Good questions, Steve.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Interesting that happened in nineteen eighty seven, and that was
also when I signed Carl Douy was in ninety eighty seven,
so I'm still in the music business. My friend Peter
Jordan told me there was an ad in the tender's
column to introduce personalized number plates into New Zealand and
we should have a go at it, you know, I mean,
who would I don't know, you know, so we had
(45:24):
to think about what would we tender for that. You know,
they'd never been in New Zealand where I heard we're
up against about sixty other tenders, including the three M
company like big businesses. M zip Post was one of
the tenders and we just put up some money. Long
story short, we started that business. And I've got to
say introducing personalized plates into New Zealand in nineties eighty
(45:48):
seven was another life highlight for me.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Incredible, incredible business. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
I think we turned over like I don't know, maybe
two hundred thousand in our first month. It was just
like a way it was, you know, and it was
just fantastic. But I didn't want to have written on
my tombstone. He sold lots of number plates, so yes,
I did have that for a decade. I loved that business.
(46:15):
I love the people that I brought onto that business.
But there is a thing called culture which is very
important in business, and over time, with a growing business,
our culture changed. If I had my time again, I
wouldn't have taken my fingerprints off that business like I
did with and had management take it over who were
(46:36):
not my people. That was the mistake that I made,
and that's why I don't give it a lot of airtime.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
Was for that reason.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
If I had my time again, I would have been
there longer, and other people would have been there for
a shorter time.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yes, and the last year or two were your worst
experiences it was in that business.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
In that business. Yeah, I look, here's the thing. I
lost my joy. And when you lose your joy, you
lose your strength because joy and strength go hand in hand.
And I just was lying on a beach tail at
our beach house at stan Will Bay, and I just thought, God,
what am I doing.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
I'm not enjoying this.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
And so I just thought, I've got to get out
of that business. And I've got a return to my
first love and business, which is the music business. And
that's when we carried on and have done all sorts
of other things.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, which links us up nicely with Miracle Oh yes
two thousand and four, so Celine Dion and and Gettis Yes.
How you how does this conception come along?
Speaker 4 (47:33):
See? Look at that time.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
When we release anything to the market, I give away
so many copies because what I'm wanting to do is
I want you to celebrate. I've created this, Please celebrate.
So I'm going to give At that time, we've just
done Margaret Urlich's Second Nature album. You guys may not
know who Margaret Relich is. She was with the band
Peaking Man. They had that track room that echoes. I
(47:59):
signed them at CBS. I love Margaret Urlich and I
signed her to her own album. That, by the way, Seamus,
is how you tell a short story. I'm taking notes, no,
but you need to really take it, need to really
take that in. Okay, I've now got the Margaret Elich
album and I'm sending it to everybody that I can
think of.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
One person that I thought of or to think.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
I sent it to Cal Gettis, who is the husband
of A Getty's famous baby photographer. He said, thanks for
sending me the Margarellach album. I'd love to do something
with and photos and music, he said. I said, who
would you like to use? He said, I'd think Selene Dion.
We send it to Selene Dion. Never heard back from them.
(48:41):
They you know, like it didn't happen. A year comes
and goes. We send it back to Selene Dion. Is
an idea to go with a Getties and they came
on board. So as executive producer of the Miracle album,
we saw two or three million copies. It also was
another production on Oprah, so we've had two of our
productions on Oprah.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
If I had number get ready to just have your
mind completely blown. If I had not given cal Getty's
a copy of the little CD of Margaret Urlich, we
wouldn't have a Selendi on release, you know, like it's
like that, you know, like and again, if we hadn't
signed Carl doy at the Lobby, we wouldn't have been
on the Oprah Woodfrey Show. I always say that opportunities
(49:25):
don't shout, they whisper, and that's a perfect example of that.
So that's how the Celeen Dion thing came about.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
And if you'd given up on that first approach and
not gone back at yes either, which is another common thing,
very much so knocking on that door very much.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
So.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yeah, there's a great story in the book around this
period when you're sort of traveling around and meeting Selene
and is a New York bar and Billy Joel's playing
the piano and I think you said it was one
of the highlights of your career or life at that point.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
And and I go to the Saint Regis Hotel in
New York and we go downstairs and the pianist is
Billy Joel, right, and he's just there, like there is
six people in this bar. I'm not kidding and so
and so, you know, and Billy is. I've met him
a number of times. I've hosted him in New Zealand
when he toured, so we knew each other. Oh you know,
(50:14):
I didn't expect him to see him there. His insurance
agent has told me he can't sing because he's got
to protect his voice. So he's just playing his tracks
and I go and I start singing. So I'm singing
piano man and up town girl. I've got the worst
voice in the whole world. But you know, an old
New York woman comes up to me.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
As she goes, Oh my god, you've got a beautiful voice.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
It's marveless. You've got to keep singing anyway. So that
was catching up with Billy Joel over there, which is
a bit of fun.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
It's a good story.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
It's a good story to have in your locker, isn't it.
You must have some heck of like the Tons, the
moments that just come runs.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Remember when that happened?
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Tons, that's why you got to write a book.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Miracle does two million albums and five hundred thousand books
sort of straight off the bat. Has that become normalized
at that point with your other success, So you kind
of like, oh, this is what is expected.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
No, No, that's at another level. That's at another level volume.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Wise, that's for sure, you know, because you know, we
were looking at I think the Amazon charts at that time,
and we were selling like I don't know, you know,
you know, maybe we might sell quarter of a million
copies in a day, you know, you know, that's such
as the American market.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
So yeah, that was a whole other level.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
What's it like being in the room with Celene Dion singing, like,
is it just a different level?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Well, we went to Sane and I went to Selene's
home for dinner. We just had dinner in a home,
and so we're there with her and her husband, Renee
at that time, and there was just six of us.
So it was just you know, you know, I've been
and spent time with a lot of artists in my
life at the very top of their game, so I'm
used to it. They're just normal people and often a
lot of them are really good people.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, we'll be right back after this short break. The
next chapter The Great New Zealand Song Book, Yes two
thousand and nine. Okay, talk us a bit.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
So my son Sam and I are at the what
was the Vector now the Spark Arena. We're at a
Splitian's concert. I'm walking out with Sam from the Splitians
concert and I turned to him after the show and
I said, Sam, you've just heard the Great New Zealan Songbook.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Never said that before in my life.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
And I was referring to Splitiens of course, because hey,
they could fill a thousand songbooks just on their own.
And as I said, I thought, all I read it
like the way that that sounds. And so that was
the seed for the Great New Zealan Songbook, was that
throwaway line. So as a result of that, we just
started thinking about what could it be, what could it become?
And at that time I thought, well, normally you do
(52:43):
an album, and I've done many of them, and you
do an album, then the covers the last, so like
you put the dress on the model at the end.
But for the songbook, we turned that on its head
and I did the artwork first, where we took Charlie
the four Square Man. I got Dick Frizalta paint him
holding a guitar, and then I started approaching the artist, Hey,
Dave Dobbin, would you handwrite the lyrics to Welcome Home.
(53:06):
You know, would Neil Finn, would you you know, you know,
handwrite the lyrics. We got Brooke Fraser, you name it,
shee had and we just invited forty of New Zealand's
top recording artists to handwrite the lyrics and could we
do something beautiful and historic? And that's what the Great
New Zealand Songbook was. And then talking about celebrating, we
(53:26):
then launched that at the Auckland Museum and it was
covered for an hour on Network News and they took
that live. It was just an incredible highlight, you know.
The Great New Zealan Songbook was just another life highlight,
huge life highlight.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah, it was a soundtrack to my Subaru legacy for
many media years.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Hundred percent. It's amazing how many of those CDs stuck
in the players.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
The cover is iconic, it really is. But did you
know Dick Frazell before? No, I did not know Dick Frazell.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
And I just had this idea of you know, because
he of course painted the four square man and various
iterations if you will, and I said, you know, I
just got whole him. And I said, Dick, you know,
it's it's Murray Tom and you don't know me, and
I'd like to do this, and he wasn't overly interested. Anyway,
I rung him back and after two or three conversations
we got him interested. We went down to visit him
(54:19):
at his house, and hal Moana and and Dick enthusiastically
came on board. And honestly, you're just a beautiful cover,
beautiful cover, as you say, totally iconic.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
There's the weight of putting that together once you've got
a few of them locked in and you're going, who
I've got Dave Dobbin and we got some so the
others kind of fall into line like is it you
just need it like five or six sort of big Yeah.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
I think I think that's true.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
You know, like you know, there's you know, you've got
to get the Statesman's, you've got to have your Don mcglashan's,
and then you know Fat Freddy's of course, and you know.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
It's it's there's just a there's a few that you've
got to have.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
If you're going to call it the Great New Zealand Songbook.
But people came on board. It hadn't been done before
with great joy, great enthusiasm because of course, back in
the day albums the art work was a big part
and with CDs the artwork was lost very much, and
we with the songbook, we brought that back. So every
(55:15):
artist had their double page spread to handwrite their lyrics,
to do whatever they wanted with it, to give the
inspiration of where they were and how they wrote the song.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Again, a very very joyous production, and the duration from
idea to deliveries around a year?
Speaker 4 (55:32):
Is that one was probably about a year, which is
actually quite short.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
Yeah, all right, I was going to say that's quite
a labor of love though as well.
Speaker 4 (55:39):
Yeah, it is very much a labor of love.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
You are you working on that every day? Nungging it forward?
Speaker 2 (55:43):
And that was about when my producer Tim Harper came
on board and he did all the design did an
incredible job. Tim would have liaised with the artists, got
the designs, worked with their design. So yeah, Tim did
a fantastic job on that.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Is you another business lesson in there of how you
got Gottier into the album and why oh yeah, well
that was for the great astray and oh moved across? Yes, sorry, yeah,
you can't put go to on the Great New Zealand.
Yeah you could do Camera in Isolation, Yes you could, Yes,
you absolutely could. But so you've had such a success
(56:20):
with the Great New Zealand Songbooks, the obvious next step Australia.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, we did the Great Australian Songbook and again, you know,
I got hold of you know, talk about relationships and
building them. I got hold of Peter Garrett from Midnight Oil.
They were early adopters into the Great Australian Songbooks. So
we got the handwritten lyrics of Beds of Burning and
you know, and then you know, now we're talking about
all the incredible Australian artists like you know, Jimmy Barnes
(56:47):
and you know, like John Farnham and you know, they
all came on board with that.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (56:51):
So yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Did you get an excess question the songbook without it?
Were they receptive to your approach?
Speaker 4 (57:03):
They came straight on board?
Speaker 1 (57:06):
But is that a case I know they didn't, but
is that a case of that persistence again that.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
So we contacted an excess a number of years after
Michael Hutchins had passed away. We got extremely rude and
negative reaction. But you can't have the great Australian songbook
without an excess, so it's not like you can replace
them with somebody. So we just circled back and we
kept at and eventually they came on board, which I'm
extremely but yes, I'm in the persistence business.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
There's no question about that. You know, is that.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
There's there's a lot of people that will get dissuade
after getting a no. But to get two or three
or four nos, you must really I know you obviously
really believe in the project. But that's real tenacity to us.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
But I think if you're very strong on what the
finished thing needs to look like, that generally keeps you going.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:57):
Yeah, so you're not easily put.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Off, and you're not. There's no fixed timeline. It's we're
not going out until we've got It's true.
Speaker 2 (58:04):
That's very very true. It's like, because we are creating
this ourself, there is no release date. It's released when
it's done to our satisfaction and Tim and I work
very very hard to make it everything it could be.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yeah, we've got a few more chapters to go. But
just in the middle here when we're talking about this,
like this is so much stuff we've already covered and
we're kind of like even going through it quickly for
a long form pod. But do you reflect on it
and think, shit, I've done a lot.
Speaker 3 (58:31):
No.
Speaker 4 (58:32):
But but chats like this are fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah, because I've always got a you know, I'm always
very obsessed with what I'm currently working on and what
we're about to do rather than what we've done in
the past.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah, it is this space, and it's always the same
the guests we come in and we reflect on their
whole life and sometimes yeah, it does make you stop
and tex stock. I mean, writing a book would do
the same thing. But the next one is the Great
New Zealand Cookbook. So you've taken the idea of song
and you've gone cooking.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
So it was interesting because the CD business, The Great
News On Songbook was one of the last massive, massive
CDs ever to be released. Like we probably sold I
don't know, a couple hundred thousand of that in New Zealand.
You know, given platinum is fifteen, you do the maths
(59:19):
about twelve and so and so then we just sort
of thought, you know, I started to think about, you
know that the fact that chefs are then new rock
stars and instead of having an artist, a recording artist
handwrite their lyrics, why don't we get a chef to
handwrite their recipe? And we just started to think about
what the Great New Zealand Cookbook could look like. And so,
(59:43):
you know, again, Tim and I started working on that,
along with Jeff Blackwell and Ruth Hobday, and we just
wanted to make it magnificent. We just wanted to do
instead of forty recording artists, because of course with the
songbook we were restricted to the length of a CD.
We had no restriction with the cookbook. So instead of
having forty artists, we took eighty chefs.
Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
And we just started going around and see, we didn't
know any chefs.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
You know, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
See, in the in the music business, I knew pretty
much all the artists, worked with them, most of them
at one time or another.
Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
But now we're saying, but here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
How did we get eighty of New Zealand's top cooks,
chefs and bakers to come on board when we've never
done a cookbook?
Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
How did that happen? I can tell you how we
did it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
We sent them all a copy of the Great New
Zealand Songbook and we said, we're about to do the
great and again, the quality of this year's work opens
next year's opportunities. That's a perfect example. Every the songbook
was greatly loved and remains greatly loved. So therefore a
chef is going to go, oh, these guys, I've got
this opportunity. Well, that just really opened the way for us.
(01:00:58):
And that's why we had you know, Peter Gordon and
Peter Matthias and Josh Emmett and you know, you know
every you know, everybody came on board. But we did
eighty on location shoots. We went all around New Zealand
for that was another massive life highlight was the great
New Zealand Cork.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
But that speaks to why it's a success and why
everything you do is a success. Eighty shifts and you've
gone round to them. You could have just got them
to phone it in photos, but you've gone and spent
the time and people see it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
And we went we went to their place on their location,
sat down just like we're sitting down here, and just
got to the heart and then just got them to
pare a dish that with Lotty Headley photographed and my
daughter Hailey videoed and we just had a team of
four Lotty Term, Haley and I and we created something
incredibly special.
Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
And what a job you've created for yourself to go
and food from eighty of the greatest.
Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
It look everything about that project was just perfection.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
It's a hell of a category to break into as well. Cookbooks.
There's quite a few of them out there. I'm not
sure if you're aware, but there's a hell of a
lot of cookbooks come out every year.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
It was interesting I went, I knew I started to
appreciate how many cookbooks were out there when I went
to a retail chain, a book retail chain that we
were trying to sell it to, and I wasn't there
to see the book buyer. I was there to see
the cookbook buyer. And there was two of them and
all they did all day was buy or not buy cookbox.
(01:02:28):
And so you know, I remember sitting with them and
showed them the start of the Great New Zealand Cookbook
and they looked at it and it was unfortunately both
these ladies that had their personality removed at Berth and
you know, they sat there and I remember I was
received into a windowless office with yesterday's water on the table,
and they were quite underwhelmed by the whole thing. And
(01:02:50):
I remember I said, look, you know, this is what
we're doing, and how do you feel about this? And
what might you take? And they said, oh, look, we
might take maybe five hundred copies. I said, so what
are we going to do on the first day at
ten o'clock in the morning, when you've sold out of
those five hundred copies and you can't get any more.
I said, I think you think as business as usual,
just another cookbook. I said, you know, we were on
(01:03:10):
the oyster boat in Bluff at four am taking these shots.
We know, we were up the White with the White Baits,
you know, with the Curve seventh generation Curve family, White
Baiting family. Rather, you know, we've been on location everywhere
that you know. Anyway that eventually they took a lot more.
But you know, but again it comes back to what
we were talking about ages ago, the telling and retelling
(01:03:34):
of the story that you know, people have no idea
of what that takes, you know, like just take the
eighty chiefs.
Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
We've got a when over eighty all individually, one on one.
Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Before we can even get started, they have to come
on board, then the managers, the publicists, the media outlets,
the retail stores.
Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
Your ability to tell your story over and over and
over as if you've never told it before.
Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
You know that.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
But that's your genius zone. Isn't that genius?
Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
No, there's nothing genius about it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
No. The way that you can meet someone for the
first time and just sell them without selling them, and
just be so personable and get them buy into your vision.
Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
And you've done it across so many different things.
Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
We've done it so many times. But the reason we
do it so successfully is it's in us and we
believe in a million percent. So there's no trouble to
share that. It's so troubled to share what it is
that you love with one another.
Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Because often it can be a case of you you
pick up other people's energy, yes, in a meeting, in
a situation like that, So it's a it's almost an
unnatural thing maybe to feel just to keep pushing and
pushing when you're getting nothing back.
Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
Oh look, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Well, I mean, you know entertainers, they they're the best demonstrators,
you know, when they go out on a stage every night.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Well, I've heard you use the Rob Guest example of
should we talk about Rob, Yes, Rob Guest.
Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
So Rob Guest again for your listeners. That to us
in Nana about this.
Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Rob Guest performed in New Zealand in the leading role
in Lamor's way back in the day at the ATA Center.
Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
I go there.
Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
I thought he was amazing and I said to Ane,
I'm going to sign Rob. We got to do something together.
I love him, and again I signed him up. It
was crazy because it was at the closing stages of
the season. He was about to be unemployed, he was
about to go from lead of Lamor's to nothing. Anyway,
I just felt it was the right thing to do
(01:05:37):
sign him up. A month later, everybody says, oh god,
you're an idiot. You know, he's got nothing. A month
later he was signed up to be Phantom and Phantom
the opera. Oh my god, you're a genius. It's incredible,
you know. Anyway, but what I learned from Rob, Nobody's
taught me more about I guess selling something or the
vision than Rob. Think about that he goes on stage
(01:06:00):
every night and you know, in front of a couple
of thousand people and the curtain goes down.
Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
You know, certain comes up, let's go down and there
he is two thousand people. He's got to win them over.
Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
How many times has Rob Guest performed as the lead
of either Lamor's or phantom? How many performance has he done?
I can tell you how many, three thousand performances, three
thousand pomans. And he doesn't have the luxury of somebody
looking I'm not sure about this and have his an
al to his performance.
Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
He's got to give it everything.
Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
So when I go to a meeting and I've got
the Great New Zealand Songbook and the Great Usualan cookbook,
whatever I've got with me, and the person's got their
arms fold and they're not looking very enthusiastic. I think
about Rob Guest. He doesn't then dial his performance back.
He gives the same performance because at the end of
the night, those people rise, they give him a standing
ovation because of what he has delivered to them. And honestly,
(01:06:58):
I've just got so much out of observing world class.
You know, musicians, performers, they give it everything.
Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
It's I preserve ator, and you know they can't have
a sick day. I they're feeling a bit off. I've
still got to get out there and do it. It's like, yeah,
anytime I come in for a podcast, oh a bit
low energy or I feel a bit sick. Fucking yes,
pull your pants up exactly.
Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
Yeah, No, it's just really really important.
Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
It's just our our ability to just take what we
have to the market with the passion that it needs
every single day.
Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
And having those market advocates, I guess as well of
those people that are pushing your message on your behalf too,
that you've converted into people going you've got to get absolutely,
got to get the great New Zealand absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Absolutely, that's absolutely you know, making ambassadors of everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
So the next project is one of whod you describe
as perhaps you're your most important or the one you're
most proud of, which is the Offering Yes, which is
a huge, decades long project which came to Fruition in
twenty nineteen. Correct, take us back to the very start
of this week.
Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
And see it's interesting. You know, I'm a manic journaler.
I journal a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
We could talk about that or not, but I don't
know how many years ago, twenty odd years ago, I
wrote really the idea of the Offering project, and I said,
how amazing would it be if we took the gospel
hymns that were written centuries ago and we got the
artists of our time to perform them, and then all
the money could go to charity. And so you know,
(01:08:33):
at that time, I just said music to feed the soul,
proceeds to help the poor was the first thing I
wrote in my and look me being me, I expected
to have it out the following week. This was twenty
years ago, but it sort of still sat there, and
we did the Great New Zealand Songbook, We did the
Great New Zealand Cookbook.
Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
We did this right.
Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
We did all these projects and then finally in twenty
nineteen we launched the Great New Zealand the Offering Project,
you know, and that was the when just after the
Mosque shootings, we came out that week and just Sindra
a Dern spoke to the nation and then Holly Smith
Intiaks performed.
Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
For Kiamai from our Offering collection. That was a recording
that we did.
Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
So we got twelve of our top recording artists to
perform a gospel home and then we got twelve of
our visual artists to paint it. So Dave Dobbin sung
amazing grace and Dick Frizzelle painted it, and you know,
Carl Morn and all the top visual artists came on board.
Speaker 4 (01:09:33):
That remains an absolute life highlight for me.
Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
I didn't take a penny from that project, and all
the money went to the Salvation Army. And my goal
is to try and replicate the Offering Project around the world,
which is currently very much on the top of my
list of things to do.
Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
But again, it's the intricate detail and thought that goes
into it that makes it so special. And in the
book you write about why it took so long, and
sometimes you'd be going back and forth with artists for
years and just waiting. You know, Stan Walker was a
quod example of what happened there with Stan.
Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Came, Stan came on board and then much much later
changed him that he wanted to do and so you know,
you know, you've just got to flow with the artists,
I guess is what I'm saying. They've got to be
fully Artists aren't going to do something unless the heart
is fully into it, and particularly with the Offering Project,
there's no money.
Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
They were giving.
Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
They were bringing their creative gift as an offering incredibly
generous of them. None of those artists got any royalties
from the offering project. That was their personal offering. The
same with the visual artists. When they painted their works
of art, they then presented that as an offering. I
think there's something incredibly powerful about that, and I'm very
(01:10:49):
very proud of that project.
Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
You talk about the journal, and just to loop back
seventeen years before the idea came to truition, do you
pull your old journals out off the shelf and flick
through them?
Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Very very seldom, but you know, like I was journaling
this morning before I got here. It's just like you know,
I think that many years ago are made of mine.
Mark Holton gave me a blank exercise book and wrote, hey, mate,
you know, Merry Christmas.
Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
You know journaling is great. You could start.
Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I thought I didn't know what to do with that,
that do with it, But I find journaling just putting
down how I'm feeling. You know, they say a problem
shared is a problem halved. I find when I write
something in my journal, the thing or the weight of
something will be less as a result of me writing
into my journal. But anyway, you know, all the projects
I've written about in my journal and things that are
(01:11:39):
on my mind, et cetera, challenges that we're facing. Is
it a daily No, it's it's I don't ever do
it with it, Like it's not a calendar, it's not
a diary. So you know, I could go a month
without journaling. You know, nobody's got to market.
Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Yeh, is it is it?
Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Without getting into too much of the detail. Is it
is it musings on life all all of that?
Speaker 4 (01:12:01):
Very much so?
Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
And you know, I highly recommend because I think it's
a sign of an examined life, you know, like you know,
it's really shows you know how it is for you,
you know how you're feeling just you know, I guess
to just to express yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
It's like a timestamp right of how you do it
is very much so. Yeah, can tie us into the
charitable space because again in the book, you write about
how you've you've sort of built up wealth and you're
financially set and you like giving back.
Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
I don't think I would have said that I've built
up wealth, but carry.
Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
On, Okay, my words you're definitely your words, not mine,
very clear and I'm not sure if there's linked together,
but the Salvation army and the offering and your charity
and why you feel it important to give back? Are
they linked together?
Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
Definitely?
Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
I think that you know, Anne and I have you know,
we have you know, I think just to go through
life having a heart for others, that's what it's all about,
isn't it, you know, And and that's just how we
we have lived and continue to live. But what the
Offering Project does is that, like let's say in my life,
I've been able to give away one hundred dollars, then
(01:13:15):
if I really worked hard, I might be able to
give away another fifty dollars between now and when I die,
you know, if I really work hard. What the Offering
Project does is it allows us to give away ten
twenty thirty forty million dollars, maybe one hundred million dollars if.
Speaker 4 (01:13:32):
We get it right.
Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
So surely my efforts should be in that, you know,
because no job is going to pay me enough to
be able to give away what the Offering Project has
the potential. So you know, we're now trying to take
it to the world and hopefully help countless others as
a result of our efforts, but not only help them financially,
(01:13:53):
but help them emotionally help their own soul. So we
want the really the gospel hymns that have sustained the
weary from two three centuries ago to be able to
sustain us today and in the time ahead.
Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
That is my heart for the offering project.
Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
It's an incredibly noble outlook. Is that something which has
become stronger as you've gotten older? Well, that's always been,
always been, always been very strong.
Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
Yeah. I don't think it's it changed at all. Yeah. Yeah, generosity.
You know, generosity is just a mark of a person. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Yeah, that's so good. We'll be right back after this
short break. Okay, I'm ready to move into some business hacks.
Oh okay, yeah right, we've got a few here. So
are you an entrepreneur?
Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
Ah? Great question.
Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
You know, I've always said that entrepreneur is French for unemployed,
And you know, I've never once called myself an entrepreneur,
but I think that my behavior would suggest that I've
got entrepreneurial tendencies.
Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Yeah, what does your calendar look like? Do you have
a daily calendar?
Speaker 4 (01:15:06):
Empty?
Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (01:15:08):
Empty?
Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
So look, I try not to take any I try
not to fill my calendar at all with anything. So basically,
if we're going to have lunch, Oh, do you want
to have lunch on the twenty seventh or whatever. No,
let's talk on the morning of the twenty seventh, and
then let's have lunch that day. Like I don't I
like to live with a calendar that's got not got
(01:15:29):
anything in it. Look, if anybody that's got a job
is working for this listening to this, I'll think, oh my.
Speaker 4 (01:15:34):
God, my calendar is just full. But you're not that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
No, So I just want to I want I just
don't want to have anything in my calendar if I
can avoid it.
Speaker 4 (01:15:43):
Yeah, that's how I that's how I work.
Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
And you've already spoken about the no meetings.
Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Yeah, well if we can avoid it, you know. Look,
meetings should be held over coffee or lunch, you know,
and that way you can get to know the person
of it better at the same time, rather than just
in a terrible office situation where you're wasting everybody's time.
I think this, think about Look, if we're going to
respect people, let's not drag them into a room and
bore them rigid for an hour. That doesn't show any
(01:16:08):
respect to anybody. If you're going to have a meeting. Then, boy,
make sure it's respectful to everybody that's there and that
they're going to leave better off than when they walked in,
which is seldom the case.
Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
What's the phrase, never chase a dying breeze.
Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Never chase a dying breeze is I'm a yachtsman. I've
done a lot of sailing, had some success in sailing.
When you go out sailing on the harbor, you might
have a twenty not northerly, which becomes a ten not.
Speaker 4 (01:16:38):
Northerally a five not northy, and now we're becalmed.
Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Never chase a dying breeze means it's probably not going
to come in from the north next time. You need
to look for evidence of new breeze. If you're driving
over the harbor bridge in Auckland, the flag might be
flying and you see there's a westerly fall filling in,
or there might be a bonfire somewhere and you see
there's a southerly. We're looking for evidence of new breeze
when you go sailing, and so it is with business
(01:17:04):
and the case of the songbook. With the CD we
could see we were chasing a dying breeze that business
was over, so we're looking for new breeze. And the
new breeze in that case was the Great New Zealand Cookbook.
So I think for anybody in business, you've got to
make sure you're not chasing a dying breeze. You've got
to keep looking for where the next where the next
(01:17:24):
breeze is coming from? Where should where should we we
be positioning ourselves going forward?
Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Yeah, he's a good murray. Keep them coming, and that's
why they that's why you pay me. Don't eat at
your desk. That's my only rule in business.
Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
I've only got one rule, don't eat at your desk
because you know, look at the moment, I'm working in
a big shared office workplace and you got these people
hunched over their postures, terrible looking at their computer and
not even knowing what they're putting in their mouth.
Speaker 4 (01:17:58):
They're not even enjoying.
Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
I always get my people to eat together. We sit
round the table, we eat our lunch together. And that's
how culture is built. It's not built at laser strike
or tenpin bowling. It's built by sitting around the desk
and eating with one another. So I just think it's
really important.
Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
Yeah, we know, that's a trait that's Mainfreid of adopted
as well, or their shared lunch rooms for everyone from
the managing director right through to you know, the loaders
and the foot lift operators.
Speaker 4 (01:18:27):
So good.
Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Yeah, tell us about honking cards.
Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
And that's the honking cards goes way back. But basically
that was I think Sachi and SARChI did an advertisement
way back in the day where they showed a group
of geese I think, flying together in a V formation
and basically the ones that the bank would honk encouragement
so that the ones at the front.
Speaker 4 (01:18:50):
Would keep breaking through. That's where that came from.
Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
So I decided that I'd give my people honking cards,
meaning if you saw somebody around the office doing something good,
you'd fill out a little honking card. Hey, Shamus, I thought,
you know what you did yesterday was awesome or well
done with that customer.
Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
So you know, I stn't do it now.
Speaker 4 (01:19:06):
But for a time that was a bit of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Is that the same as you would actively sort of
send a message to three people a day just to
let them know they were doing a good job.
Speaker 4 (01:19:17):
Often I would have done that.
Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
If I've seen an ad on television, I would write
to companies I didn't even know and just encourage them
for the work that they were doing. I just think
it's great just to appreciate the work that's been done
around you. You know, people are doing some great work,
but not a lot of people get a lot of
encouragement on the way through.
Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Yeah, that's something that we had Matt Heath on and
that's something that's stuck with me from him is how
often you read something or you watch something someone's done
and you think, shit, that was pretty cool. Just flip
them a like, send the message it means because when
you get at the other side, it makes you feel so,
it really does.
Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
And the whole thing about encouragement, of course, you know,
encouragement is the ability to give courage to somebody else.
A lot of people are living discouraged lives. In other words,
they are not feeling courageous. Any word can give somebody courage.
It's so important to be an courager for another person.
Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
You mentioned sailing. Yep, we've just finished the Olympics. Time
stamping this.
Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
You had an opportunity in nineteen eighty to go, but
that was the Olympics which was boycotted by the Western World.
Fast forward, you win a masters competition and Hailey retold
a story of you almost visualizing that.
Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Yeah, like at the dinner table. That was funny, and
now the world champion. Yeah yeah yeah Tom.
Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
So what happened was, well, it's going to this World
Championship in Brazil. And every night months before, as we
family would sit at the table and before I ate,
I would stand up and say and representing New Zealand
and the new world champion, Murray Tom, and then I
would bow my head as if they were putting the
(01:20:53):
medal around my head. And then I would sit down
and we would start eating. And of course the family,
oh my god, you're serious, Like they would just be eating,
they're not even listening anymore. But I did it every
single night. Of course I was just doing it as
a joke.
Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Well I wanted to know. I wanted to know that
was it visualization or was it a gag? Here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
It was definitely a gag. But it definitely has weight
as well, because you're just talking to yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
But it was just very very funny, very very funny.
Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
So to pull that back when you're putting a project together,
like one of these do you then visualize it going
as amazing as they have.
Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
I don't really think about that.
Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
I think about the work that we're doing each day
with each artist that we might be working and how
and just making that as amazing as what it can be,
you know. Just yeah, just if we do great work
every day, then we're gonna have a great production at
the end of it to take to the market.
Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Great work with people you love, right.
Speaker 4 (01:21:48):
Absolutely, yeah, don't work with idiots. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
I think it's a great example of the Murray Tom
story that being a world champion sailor. It's kind of
just a footnote, you know, we just mentioned it to
move on. But the thing is, I'm not actually a
great sailor.
Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
I have had some success at sailing, but listen, I'm
not a professional sailor.
Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Not there. Yeah, all right, I'm going to land the plane.
But I want to talk a bit of family stuff.
And in the book you talk about how Haley taught
you about determination, yep, and what you've learned from from
your family.
Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
And you know, I'm married to Anne and I've got
three kids. I've got Hailey, Sam and Sarah or all incredible.
They're incredible kids. But I went to one of Haley's
cross countries when she was very young and watched her
you know, yeah, you've got this and all that sort
of thing. And I think she came about thirtieth or
whatever it might be, not a great performance.
Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
Like, oh that was amazing, hun.
Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
And she goes, yeah, next year, Dad, I'm going to
get on the podium. Yes, of course you are, darling.
You know, of course you are. Let's go and have dinner,
and she goes, well, I'm going to start training for
it tomorrow, you go. So anyway, I'm thinking, well, hopefully
we'll get over that.
Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
Tomorrow. Morning's got to shoes on runs. We and you know,
wants me to go for a run with her. We
go for a run.
Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
She runs almost every day, and next year she's on
the podium of the cross country. It's just like crazy.
So what I'm saying is I find that very inspiring
where the kids like lead the way and they go
and they set their mind to something, you know, as
it's turned out. You know, I've got three kids who
are incredible on their own fields. I would if I
had one word to describe all of them, it would
(01:23:25):
be grit. They've got a lot of grit. These guys
they set goals and they've gone after them, whether it
be multi sport or you know Sarah with in the
medical profession. They've got a lot of grit and I
really admire them for what they've done.
Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
Huge And you're sorry. Your relationship with Anna has stood
the test of time as well. We're still married. What's
what's the secret behind that?
Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
Six?
Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
Oh my god, if you could give aspiring romeos out
there a little bit of advice.
Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Look, you know and I of course have different personalities,
but she's just incredibly you know, she's been an incredible
mum to the three kids, but she's also an incredibly
kind person.
Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
She's just you know, she's very warm.
Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
She creates an incredible home environment. She creates a home
which has got a lot of peace. She's a very
contented person. She's not a drama. She doesn't create drama.
Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
So you know, we've been fortunate that we've got peace
in our home and I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Sounds like complimentary personalities, yeah, I think so. You know, Yeah, Mary,
it's been such a cool shaw have we gone? We
have we missed anything? There's I'm not going to mention it. Yeah,
I just want to wrap up by just saying thanks
for coming in. It's I feel really honored when we
(01:24:47):
get to share the space with someone who has so
much wisdom to give because we are starting out as
business owners. There's so much advice that we can take
from every step of your journey and your story and
the way that your family speaks of you.
Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
Oh, that's very kind.
Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
But also you know, just to finish on you, you know,
just to take this passion project and turn it into
what you're turning. I wanted to congratulate you on that.
I know what it takes to take an idea and
try and make it fly, so you know, that's great.
And also with the incredible guests that you get on
and therefore the lives that are being changed as a
result of the vehicle that you're providing.
Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
Oh man, that's so nice. Yeah, thank you to who
recommended Murray, because it's, like I said at the start,
as a life design for a long form pod. Read
the book, Eat, Drink, and Be Murray. It's an incredible read.
I can't recommend it highly enough. Shay, you got an outro,
and we're trying and come up with something but I
mentioned earlier I listened to go back.
Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
To a Sabarak when I was in my sabara and
I was driving up here. Now, when I was driving
up I was thinking exactly what Steven said about starting
out on a journey of taking an idea and turning
it into something and someone with so much, so many
miles on the tread, and all of the little nuggets
(01:26:05):
and bits of wisdom along the way, which I say
their wisdom, but they seem like such simple ideas, but
you actually have to live them, and I feel like
you've lived them, and you talk about them so passionately
as well. It's really inspiring to to kind of follow
that track. And the one thing which really stood out
to me and I had to write it down so
I didn't forget it. I think it's with espresso guitar
(01:26:26):
on the inside of the cover.
Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Which is to never mention espresso guitar.
Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
Life is short. We must treasure the memories we have
of evenings spent with great friends, great food, and great music.
And I think that's just a fantastic way to live
your life. I've already sent it to three people today
as something that i'd seen and thought this is so
this is so cool. So yeah, if I can come
away with that little mantra, I think, yeah, life is
(01:26:51):
going to be pretty good and I'm excited about what
we've got in the future. Good jobs, very that's fos guys.
Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
Hey, team quick one before you go. If you've got
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(01:27:22):
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