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July 21, 2024 136 mins

Sione Faumuina played 132 NRL matches for the Warriors, Cowboys and Raiders, had two stints in the UK Super League and played two times for the Kiwis.

But his career was a troubled one.

He had the potential to be one of the greatest sporting talents this country has produced, but was instead consumed by alcohol and erratic behaviour.

After retiring aged 28, Sione had almost nothing to show for a decade as a professional league player, estimating that he had earned more than a million dollars in that time.

In this episode we talk about hitting rock bottom and how he has rebuilt his life as a business owner and father of four, how he made the NRL 18 months after he started playing league, his relationship with alcohol and all his lowest moments at the Raiders and Warriors, going sober, unlocking his story by writing a book and how he’s now using his life lessons to help others.

Sione’s story is gripping and - he tells it really well. We go into a lot of detail about some really difficult times in his career, and at this stage of his life he’s an open book – his drive in sharing is to help others learn from his mistakes.

And his story is not finished yet.

We're also super stoked to have Sione on the books of B2B Speakers, so if you’d like him to share his story at your function or event, flick us a message by going to B2Bspeakers.co.nz. Also check out our epic lineup of former guests available for hire too.

This episode is brought to you by TAB, download the new app today and get your bet on!

Listen on iheart or wherever you get your podcasts from, or watch the video on Youtube. 

Enjoy.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Women. On this episode of Between Two Beers, we talked
to Sionette Famawena. Sionette played one hundred and thirty two
NRL matches for the Warriors, Cowboys and Raiders, had two
stints in the UK Super League, and played two times
for the Kiwis. But SI's league story was a troubled one.

(00:27):
He had the potential to be one of the greatest
sporting talents this country has produced, but was instead consumed
by alcohol and erratic behavior. After retiring age to twenty eight,
had almost nothing to show for a decade as a
professional league player, estimating that he'd earned more than a
million dollars in that time. In this episode, we talk
about hitting rock bottom and how he has rebuilt his

(00:49):
life as a business owner and father of four, how
he made the NRL eighteen months after he started playing league,
that pass against the Broncos, his relationship with alcohol and
all his lowest moments at the Raiders and Warriors going sober,
unlocking his story by writing a book, and what life
looked like after rugby league. SI's story is gripping and

(01:11):
he tells it really well. We go into a lot
of detail about some really difficult times in his life
and career, and his drive and sharing is to help
others learn from his mistakes. Is top company, thoughtful and engaging.
He's lived an incredible life and his story is not
finished yet. We're also super stoked have on the books
of B to B Speakers, so if you'd like him

(01:31):
to share his story at your function or event, flick
us a message by going to B to B speakers
dot co dot nz. Also check out our epic lineup
of former guests available for hire two. This episode is
brought to you by tab Download the new app today
and get your bed on. Listen on iHeart or where
to get your podcasts from, or watch the video on
YouTube Enjoy Funwina, Welcome to Between Two Beers.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thanks guys, it's yeah good to be here and congratulations
on what looks like a really successful podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Cheers. We're so excited to have you in our Hamilton
studio today to share your story. We caught up with
you recently in Where You Live. We were at a
big trade show and Seamus and I got talking to
you for about forty five minutes. I reckon and straight
away we knew we had to get you on the pod.
Like there was so much goal just in the in

(02:28):
the chat we had about your life, like you have
lived such a life. It's built for long form podcasting.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh yeah, I guess I have, not just obviously during
my footy career, but even before that and up until
this point. So yeah, I'm a bit nervous because I'm like, oh, man,
what are these guys going to ask me? But it's yeah,
you're right, and I'm just happy to be here and
sort of, you know, share share a bit about my

(02:55):
story and journey.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
The lasting impression we had was that you seemed both
in a really good place but also ready to share
your story. And I know you've written a book, and
I know you've you've had these sort of these media
tours almost but I just feel like it's different in
a long form podcast to really tell your story.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Right, Yeah, it's you know, you brought it up just then.
I did write an autobiography, and I've done a few
interviews and other podcasts, but there's still a lot of
stuff that I haven't shared. And like you said, Steve,
it's it is probably made for long form podcasting. So yeah, man,

(03:36):
I'm ready to get stuck in.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
And the nervousness. There, it's finally fine, fine, don't worry. Yeah,
before we do get stuck in, we didn't stick around
for the big party on the last night of the
trade show. The Brazilian think like a carnival theme. Yeah,
did you The question is I'd heard from one of
your sources that you've got an incredible robot dance. Did

(03:57):
you bring the robot dance out at the receipted a robot?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
No, Unfortunately the robot didn't make an appearance. It's been
a while since I've done the robot. It's actually funny
because the last time I did it, like everyone that's
seen me do the robot, they always say the same thing.
It's like, man, that's a big ass robe.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
That that's exactly what Stephen said. I said, no, no, no,
don't say that. It's like a he's a big guy.
Do the robot just it's just a robot. But I'm glad,
you're glad that it is a big ass robot. Yeah, Okay,
one day we'll get to see it.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
I wanted to start by reading out some words from
your best mate tour who you gave us says someone
to go to He says, I think the guy that
is today is a lot closer to the kid that
I met when I was five years old at Henderson
South Primary School. Just the way he interacts with people

(04:56):
now and his demeanor, he's come full circle. He's just
a good, genuine, caring, kind guy who always wants to
help other people. It's why he's my best friend. But
it's been a ride. At one point, when he was
drinking a lot, I cut him off for a whole year.
That was tough, a whole year not talking to your
best mate, but it had to be done. I knew

(05:17):
where I stood. I didn't want him running back to
me every time he stuffed up. My family actually set
up an intervention to get us talking again, and our
friendship went to another level. In the last decade, we've
been the strongest we've ever been. I should also say
that all my friends are competitors, but he's alpha competitor
number one. Whether it's ping pong, sales, whatever, he's that

(05:37):
guy who has to win. The man with you today
is a guy I'm really proud to call my best mate.
His story needs to be shared and he's a really
important voice in our Pacific Island community, but also his
story is not finished.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Oh yeah, you wanted to start with that. Oh yeah,
far out that That was really heartfelt for me listening. Listening,
you read that from my best mate. I've known him
ever since man five even four years old, and I'm

(06:20):
trying to sort of remember back to the time he
just spoke about where he cut me off. I don't
blame him, but to hear him sort of share those
words of encouragement, yeah, it really means a lot.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Picking up on the end of what he said there,
we both got the same feeling that you're kind of
just getting started and we're going to talk about you
do you need to get to where you are now? But
it feels like there's just a fire in you which
is about to go and get it, or you're already
in the process of getting it. Is it accurate?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, yeah, it is one hundred percent accurate. It's for me.
It's I've been on this journey that we call life
obviously for a long time, but I've always had this
inkling that I was This may sound a bit egotistical,

(07:20):
but I've always had this inkling that I was destined
for more. Moving back to altur Or after twelve thirteen
years in Brisbane. It just felt like, Okay, you know,
you've got unfinished business to do now that you're back.
So it's it's pretty crazy to hear s I say
that because he's obviously my best mate. He's the closest

(07:43):
person that I have for He's like my brother, so
obviously he can sort of sense it and see it.
But yeah, who knows this being on two beers could
be the catalyst for them.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
There's a line in there as well around being an
important voice in the Pacific Island community. How important is
that to you as somebody. We're of a similar generation
and maybe there weren't that many prominent male voices, really
positive ones coming up through that Pacific community.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh you know, for Sad to say that, it's almost
like the way that I'm hearing it from him, it's
like him telling me, bro, it's time. Because I've been
sitting on the fence for a long time since, especially
since I moved back to New Zealand. I didn't want
to be that guy to fly the flag for our

(08:38):
Pacific Island community because my I guess go to reason was, man,
there's enough Pacific Island leaders and alter it or to
fly that flag. But that's just me being like not
stepping into what I think is part of my purpose.
I've had numerous people ask me, obviously being on social

(08:58):
media and all of that, that'd say to me, man,
you know, you should really take a stand and promote
you know, Pacific Island culture and our community. And I've
always resisted because there's still a part of me that thinks, oh, man,
who am I to be that person? You know? Am
I even worthy enough? So? Yeah, who knows what might

(09:20):
happen now since it's been put on.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
All right, take us back to the beginning. Growing up
in West Aalkland. What was your family unit? Like, what
what do you recall of your early days?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
So growing up in Henderson, West Akland, Henderson Valley to
be exact, I've got nothing but awesome memories. So my
family unit at that time or was obviously mom and dad,
and there was me and my older sister, and then
we had my grandparents. So we lived in a three
bedroom house in the garage. We had about six other

(09:58):
people with us, my mum's brothers and her cousins. So
I grew up with a lot of family and ol
in my mom's family every Sunday, I think it was
the last Sunday of every month, would all get together
with her cousins and my grandma's siblings and their family.

(10:20):
So for me, for the first probably from five to
twelve years of age, I was just surrounded by a family.
That's all I knew, and it was awesome. Sport was
massive back in when I grew up, so played a
big part in that. So Sar's house was the mcg
eden park, Madison Square Square garden. You know, he had

(10:44):
a basketball who, he had folding tables that were put
in his back yard and play tennis. His front yard
was you know, the mcg cricket ground. He lived in
front of a horse paddock. So when we got a
bit older, we used to chuck the lawnmower over the
back and moa cricket pitch and then there was you

(11:04):
know where the horses practice on the sand and all
of that stuff that became our league ground. So sport
was massive growing up with signed our other friend Alu,
and a lot of the other boys and kids that
lived in that area.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
So this is a question I was getting excited about
asking you with Shaye this morning in our prep school
athletics day. Are you winning all of the events, all
of it? Credible throw javelin sprints, creckable throw shot, we
had credible throw it. Okay, yeah, sorry, So before you get.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, if I'm being totally honest, I wasn't winning all
those events because there were just kids that were way
more faster. Like you know, primary school we did sixty meters,
not the four hundred, and then long jump and throwing
games and all of that. I was coming fifth or
six because we had a whole heap of talented kids.

(11:58):
I'll mentioned his name grown up and Henderson. We went
to nocon South Primary. His name's ray A Sarah. So
he used to play for bad Plenty rugby. So he was.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
The kid everyone everyone remembers the kid at school, right.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
He was the kid that just won everything. He was fast,
he was just and there was like a whole heap
of other guys that I grew up with. They actually
went on and played a better rugby as well. And
then during because remember back in the day they had
the world of Dixon's and roller mills. Right, So me
and Sara we were like that was us two. We

(12:35):
could never make those teams because there were these other
two boys that ended up going to school with Si
Calston Boys, and one was his name was Patrick Singing.
The other guy was Henry Lawson. Yes, I remember so good.
I still remember because they they actually played in the
Calston I think first fifteen that won the World Chimes yea.

(12:56):
And so those two guys kept me inside out of
all these ripped like they teams. And I was like, man,
this is like you know, so growing up I was
never there the athlete. I was no one ever tuted like,
oh man, you watch out for He's going to be
the man that was never me?

Speaker 1 (13:12):
But did that change when you went to Wellington to
Domati sort of?

Speaker 2 (13:17):
It sort of changed. So when my family left Henderson,
we moved to Wellington and I went to Normatai College.
I actually played basketball, so I started playing basketball. I
actually I had a go at rugby, so I think
I played under fourteen b at Amati. And because I

(13:39):
was I was skinny a and my dad even used
to say, are you sure you want to I want
to play rugby, You're going to get hurt. But I
grew up in a rugby family. So my mum's brothers
and uncles, they all played for mongs A, More NBC Auckland,
so rugby it was in my blood. When when I
gave it a go at, Domati didn't work. I ended

(13:59):
up playing basketball, and that was because I grew up
in a housing I think it was called housing court
back then, apartments called Arlington and if anyone's watching from Wellington,
you know a town there's They had a massive unit
block and then just townhouses and units all over the place.
They had a basketball court there. So I would go

(14:21):
down there after school and just jam with the older
kids and then sort of started to fall in love
with it. Played at home the tide made the Wellington
under for the inside, and then just sort of kicked
on from there and made rep teams for Wellington. I
really enjoyed it. I used to get sort of a
bit down though, because when it started to get to
the reps season using under sixteens eighteen's and that I

(14:45):
could never make it. And there was two guys that
played in my position that kept me out all the time.
One was Kurt Penny and the other was Lindsay Tape.
So I was like, oh, ratsman, but yeah, and so
you know, I really wanted to try and go as

(15:06):
far as I could in basketball, like I wanted to
play in the NBL and all of that stuff. But
then when I finished high school because I did I
think four years at Amati went to Wellington College for
one year to play basketball, and then I moved back
to Auckland and reconnected Wilsa and we both did a

(15:28):
a business development or business administration course.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Just quickly when you reconnected with sa, how quickly did
you want to play him in basketball when you go
back to Auckland.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
So when I was sixteen, right, it's funny you break
down up because he used to smash me growing up
as a kid because he had a basketball hoop in
his backyard. So I used to just give up. I
was a coez growing up playing ball against him. When
I moved to Wellington, I used to come up to
Auckland to stay with my grandma, and I caught up.
I finally convinced my uncle, please can you take me
to my mate's house in Henderson? Yeah all right? So

(16:00):
reconnected Wilsa when I was about fifteen or sixteen, so
he still had the hoop. I was like, let's have
one one after that, he was like, hey, what do
you be doing. I was like, yeah, and I grew
up at taller so but that was funny you saw that.
I bring that up because that was the first thing
I wanted to do when I got back to Auckland
after what two or three years. I was like, oh, man,

(16:21):
I want to play this guy.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's not competitive nature coming through straight away, just quickly
before we move on. You mentioned you had a big
family unit and growing up in West Auckland. Did that
big family unit go to Wellington or were you Was
there a disconnect from that family unit that you grew
up with in those formative years.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
So it was just my immediate family, so Mum, you
know obviously Dad. By that time my brother, my little brother,
and my little sister were born, so we in like
two or three. So we moved to Wellington and then
my grandma ended up moving in with one of our
other kids. Every Christmas we would come back to Auckland

(17:02):
and spend Christmas at my grandparents' house with my auntie.
So that was pretty much how we stayed connected every
year because when I found out were moving to Wellington.
When we first got there, we stayed with my dad's
family in Portia. Canon's Creek. Yeah, we stayed at that creek.

(17:24):
But it was cool, man. I really enjoyed it. But
I missed Auckland, and so that's why when I finished
high school, I was like, I'm out of here, moving back.
So yeah, ended up staying with my dad's sister when
I moved back to Auckland.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
We'll be right back after this short break. So link
us up to the NRL because you have this growth
spurit and you're not a skinny kid anymore, and then
you are the guy. So how did it actually how
did you actually get into the NRL in the first place.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, so, as I you know I said before, me
and Sarah we reconnected when I moved back, and we
did a course at Best Training, which is in New Lynn.
Sar was playing league and I was waiting for the
REP season to start for basketball in Auckland, which didn't
start till the middle of the year. And then, you know,
one thing led to another. I followed Star down to

(18:17):
his league training, jumped in, and then ended up playing
my first first game since I was a kid with
the Glenora Bears under nineteen. We played the Marlins when
we were in Marlins at the end of that game.
I was like, oh, man, flip. That was tough. But
a man actually came up to me, and I don't

(18:41):
know who was at the time. He goes, hey, i've
never seen you around the league traps before. How long
you've been playing league? I said, mate, this is my
first game. I was like, this is my first game
since I was like eight. He was an Auckland selector
from what I was told. Six weeks late. I carried
on playing and then my coach came up to me

(19:02):
and goes, hey, you've been selected to trial for the
Auckland under eighteen side. And I was like, oh, oh okay.
And it was on a Sunday, so me and my
mate he also got selected. I guess to celebrate you
know that we've been selected to trial, we went out
on the Saturday because we didn't think anything. Well, we'll
just have some fun, but let's go out tonight. So

(19:25):
we turn up to the trial on Sunday. Our coach
picked us up and took us there. And if you've
ever played in a trial, everyone just wants the ball.
You never get the ball, especially in the league game,
and that's what happened to me. And I was like
oh man, Oh well, one thing happened in that trial
that sort of I think put me on the map.
So we were kicking off and there was there was

(19:49):
a guy. The prop got the ball off the kickoff
and he was straight like blining to me right from
that kickoff, greenhead get massive and I'll I was like, ah,
here we go. So he's running and running full steam
ahead and then I just dropped my shoulder last winnywhere
and he went flying back legs up in the air.

(20:10):
And I'll never forget it because when that happened, the
ref looked at me, looked at the guy, looked at me.
Little did I know that guy his name was Jason Williams.
He was probably touted as the number one rugby league
prospect in New Zealand at the time. He had already
played junior qyes while he was still at high school,

(20:31):
so I think he's still the youngest of a junior kiwi.
If I knew all of that, I would have just
said he run run straight through and then yeah, after that,
got selected for the Auckland under eighteen side and we
had a really good side at that time. Chantine Harpy
Ross Tussey Mouttorney and then we went to the National Tournament,

(20:55):
just obviously not far from here Matawahir. I made the
tournament team. At the end of that I got play
off the tournament for the tournament and then made the
New Zealand under eighteen. So I went over to the
Cook Islands, played in a Pacific Cup, came back and
then an agent got in touch with me and said, hey,
I've been following you for the last however many weeks.

(21:18):
There's a few NRL clubs in Australia that will be
keen to bring you over and have a look. So
I fly over. I spent a week at the Roosters.
I was staying with my cousin's husband, who's David Solomona.
He was there at the time, and so I trained
with the first grade squad for the first for about
five days. I I was deacit to sign right then

(21:41):
and there, but then I had to go down to
Canberra and spend three days down there. When I came home,
I haven't I hadn't even told my parents, so I'd
come home and then I ring my mom and I said, hey,
I'm fow these NRL clubs are interested in signing me.
You know I was, and I say, oh, rugby league

(22:02):
and she goes, when did you start playing rugby league?
And I was like oh, so anyway, when I told
her and dad, they wanted to speak to one person
from the Roosters and one person from the Raiders, just
to see, hey, you know, what's my son going to
walk into. And then after she spoke to the people

(22:23):
at the club, she goes to me. She goes, oh, Son,
you're going to sign with the Raiders. I was like hey,
and they had the worst offer financially, but she goes, no,
I don't want you to go to the Roosters because
they're going to put you in the house with no supervision.
The Raiders have got a hostel and they've got an
appearance there. They will look after you and oh what

(22:45):
So yeah, that's pretty much. I ended up signing a
two year deal with the Raiders. So well, April nineteen
ninety nine, I'm starting for Leonora Under. Nineteen November one,
I'm lining up for preseason training alongside Brett Mullins, Lorry
Daily mal Maninger.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah, okay, this is wild, so across that twelve months
so you're eighteen, right, this is so across that twelve
month from that first game where you get noticed. Did
you was there a point when you realized I'm fucking
really good at this game? Like did you did you
understand what all the hype was around really quickly? Like
did you have that self belief straight away? No?

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I didn't, and if I was probably pinpoint when that
happened to me was when I got all those awards
at the National Rugby League tournament. That's when it sort
of had home for me because after that tournament, man,
all the boys are coming out to man, you're a
far You're the man, Like I was like, yeah, ilum
the man. But I'm still not good enough for the

(23:47):
Warriors toward me. Because when I got all those awards,
I did say I thought, yeah, man, I'm going to
stay here and I want to try and get a
contract with the Warriors. They weren't interested, and that really
sort of peeved me off. So I was like, man,
based off these awards, I'm supposed to be the best
eighteen year old in the country and you guys are
telling me you're not interested. So and I held a

(24:08):
grudge for a while about that, But then when I
signed off the Raiders. I was like, Okay, this is
a pretty cool opportunity.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Now and then and then you sign a professional contract
at eighteen, does it change instantly? I don't know what
the size of a contract for an eighteen year old
is and in the NRL back in nineteen ninety nine,
but is that the first time that you're earning real money?

Speaker 2 (24:32):
So I didn't sign what they call a full time contract,
which is back then it was a top twenty five.
Now it's top thirty, I think. So I didn't sign
a top twenty five contract. I signed a development contract,
so that was for five grand and I had to
work in my first year. So here's here's a funny story.

(24:54):
So the whole of preseason, my first time at the Raiders,
I'm training with the first grades pretty much squad, and
the reserve grade squad, so there's about forty of us.
When the season starts, they put me back down to fleg,
which is under nineteens, and I'm like, hey, why am
I coming back here? So I ended up playing fleg

(25:17):
probably the first first half of the season, and I
was working hanging curtains and blinds.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
I noticed you checking out there. Yes, when you walked
in straight away.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I could probably make that highest, not nevill and then
and so when I carried on playing fleg halfway through
the year, I was just biding my time to get
caught up back to reserve grade and that didn't come.
So we had this mid year function for the club

(25:51):
and had a few few drinks and I approached the
reserve grade coach. Oh yeah, yep. Throughout the long form podcast,
you're going to see the moments, and I approached him.
I said, hey, man, like fu when you're gonna give
me a shot in reserve grade. Apparently I was along
those lines. The following week, we go to training and

(26:15):
we're training alongside the reserve grade squad and the coach
goes it run over and he goes to me. He goes, mate,
don't you ever come up to me like that again.
I was sorry. His name is Gary Grinky, so sorry coaching.
He goes, you're on the bench this weekend. And then

(26:38):
I played reserve grade and never got dropped. So I
ended up playing the rest of the year in reserve grade. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
So the decision was to go to Camber because you
thought they thought it would be more supervised. But the
hostel that you were in wasn't what they thought it
was gonna be, right, So it led to the start
of some some issues with alcohol and homesickness. Was that immediate?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, it was. I you know, I'd never been away
from family and then going into this whole hostel environment
where there's other footy boys trying to pursue a career.
But then the other half were students. And my room
was so smart. It just for a single bed and

(27:27):
there was a little desk and that was it, you know,
you had to it was communal showers, communal eating, and
I just got really homesick. And then I ended up
sort of yeah, partying a bit, you know, going out
because I went over with two other Qui boys and
one of them came up to me one day, guys, bro,

(27:49):
do you know You've got a massive opportunity and all
you want to do is just go out on the
on the piss And I'm like, yeah, what's wrong with that?
And and I didn't know how to, but I guess
it was my way of just trying to deal with
the homesickness. Only lasted three months at the hostel and
then I moved out. I got my own place. I

(28:12):
rung the club first and I said, hey, man, you're
paying for me to be here, can you cover my
rent if I move out? And they're like yeah, So
I moved into a one bedroom unit, had to grow
up pretty quickly and and sort of just try to
stick it out.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
What was your relationship with alcohol like before before you
went to Australia, Because if you're like the picture that
you're painting is quite a controlled environment. But even when
you talk about the night before that first trial, you've
gone out for a night out. So was it was
it always a case of that kind of classic key.
We go out and do as much as you drink

(28:49):
as much as you can.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah. Yeah, it was. When we went to Raratonga for
the New Zealand Onder eighteen side. We won the tournament
and then the Saturday night I drank all the way
through till like Sunday ten am and I'm riding on
the back of one of the locals. This is in
the Cook Islands. I'm riding on the back of his

(29:11):
motorbike holding a six pack on line red that we
had to go to the dairy and beg them because
you're not allowed to sell alcohol on a Sunday and
then I'm going back and the boys are just waking
up and they're like, hey, he's still Yeah. So I
don't if I'm being honest with you, guys, I don't
know why sometimes why I drank sort of that way.

(29:34):
It was just maybe it was like a badge of honor,
you know, in front of the boys. Man, I can drink,
you know, like, because I look back at that, I
was likely yet, but it's yeah that I guess that
Kiwi culture. What I can say is when I went
to the Raiders, specifically when I made first grade, Yeah,

(29:54):
that drinking sort of just elevated even more.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, there was an incident that happened at the Raiders,
which is kind of I'm not sure if this was
the first big blip, but it was certainly one that
caught our attention.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
And it was.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
You'd been drinking at a party and you had a
schoolboy as you were driving home. He walked away uninjured,
but it was obviously a horrific event. Did what impact
did that have at the time, was at a moment
where you were kind of like, oh shit, this is
getting out of hand, or did that just sort of
pass like shit will sort of sweep that under the covers.

(30:34):
I'll tell you the actual story that led to that.
So the Warriors were in town and they were playing
the Raiders. I was playing reserve grade at the time
after the first grade game. Because Anthony Swan was at
the Raiders at the time, so obviously he knows all
the most of the Warriors boys, so he had a
lot of the Warriors boys get back to his place

(30:56):
for a drink. I was with a guy called Break
used to I used to play for Mandy. He was
at the Raiders at the time, so he had this
big club sport and we drove into a place called
Bobby McGee's, which is the spot on a Monday, because
the game was on a Monday, So we drove there
with him, and then he was going to catch a

(31:17):
cab home. So he goes to me, He goes, bro,
you hold onto my keys so I don't drive here,
So holdly God to his keys.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Where did you get Bobby McGee's. And then with the
Warriors boys, and then we'll all go back to Anthony
Swan's which was just around the corner. The party finished
and then I had no money. I didn't know how
I was going to get home, and then I remember
checking my pockets and I'm like, oh, bro, I got
Kittie's keys. So I jump in his club sport. I
didn't know this at the time, but Kittie was asleep

(31:48):
in front of his car. Oh hell yeah, man, he
told me. He goes later, he goes, bro, I was
didn't you see me? I was in front sleep in
front of my car, and I was like, oh nah.
So I just jumped in drove home and it was
I was literally probably fifteen meters away from from the hostel,
and I was like, I'm home and host and little

(32:10):
did I know, one of the hostel kids walks out
in front of a tree, right in front of a
hostel and I was almost home and then I slammed
on the brakes and had him. I jumped out and
I said, bro, you're okay. He says yeah, no, I'm right,
and I said, oh, please, don't tell anyone, and he goes, no, no,
I won't. So I park up, go back in and

(32:32):
go to sleep. About midday, I get a knock on
my door and it's the coppers. There was a teacher
across the road at his school that saw what happened.
And reported it. So that's that's sort of how I
got done. When the cops came, they couldn't get me
for UI because it'd been too long, but they got

(32:52):
me for driving reckless or something. And I remember after
I had the interview and that, and then I met
with the club and Robert Finch, who was the football
manager at the time, sort of gave me a stare
and talking to I go back and I'm lying in
bed and I'm like, man, far do I really want
to be here? I was like, oh, man, And for

(33:13):
anyone that's I guess if you've got a drinking problem
and incidents keep happening, you'll know exactly what I mean. Right.
You'll go into this state of depression for a few
days and maybe a couple of weeks, then you start
to come out of it, and then next thing you know,
you're drinking again and everything's fine. That was my process

(33:36):
throughout my whole career. Was an incident happened, state of depression.
I don't want to see anyone, hide in the house,
slowly work my way out and then everything's all good.
And that's where that's how that sort of happened. State
of depression. I was down. When I hit that kid
went back to training, things started to come back to normal,
and I'm like, yeah, I'm all good people will forget. Yeah,

(34:00):
yeah pretty much.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, you speak you like I know that pattern of
behavior because that was not to the same level, but
that was exactly it. You'd be sitting at home going
why did I why did.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
I do that?

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Or why did I say that? Or you know what
was it? In year? If the time, eventually it blows
over and then you I'm sweet to reintroduce myself and
were you quite a social person when you were drinking
as well?

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah? I like to think I was. You know, growing up,
I was surrounded like obviously by alcohol. My family had
parties and Christmas parties and never got out of hand.
But it was just you know, my dad used to
see my dad when I was young, and he was
the life of the party. Right, So that's how I

(34:43):
guess perceived just saved myself, right as soon as my
dad turns out, Oh yeah, everyone's got to have a
good time. And so for me, that's how, you know,
I sort of perceived myself like, man, this is boring.
Hey boys, he going you know, like, let's you know,
so That's how I started to drink. But then I

(35:03):
had this other side, which was, man, I don't know
anger or you know, all of this stuff that came
off the back of I guess, being in the public
profile or having a public profile.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Did you have a profile in camera when you first started.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
No, way, No, I didn't have a public profile at all,
which was awesome, And yeah, I guess once the first
time I started to realize that people recognized me, it
was pretty cool until I had an incident that became
public knowledge, and then it was just not cool.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
What did the Raiders do when this incident hitting the
school boy obviously got back to the to the club.
Did they wrap around? Did they offer you support? Were
they concerned? Hout them?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Want to throw them under the bus? But no, no,
they there was really nothing. It was basically I had
a meeting with Finchy. He gave me a, like I said,
a sterning talk, and it was like a slap on
the rest and don't do it again. So they dropped
me from playing Jersey fleag and I had to play
in the local comp for about two or three weeks.

(36:12):
And then like I said, you know, I was saying,
and then I was back up playing with the with
the Raiders.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
But I think contextually it's important that player development managers
and welfare officers. They didn't exist back in the late
nineties early two thousand.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yes, if you look back then to where we are
now in regards to player education and well being, the
NRL is probably one of the best organizations in the
whole world in that space. You know, every NRAL club
is an education and well being officer. Someday of two
the players have access to support. It's just it's so

(36:49):
important now for our elite athletes, especially NRL players, to
have that wrap around support.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
But I think unfortunately that that's the learnings from situations
in cases like yours. Yeah, yep, definitely, So link us
out to the Warriors. So how does it end with
the Raiders and how do you come back to New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
So in my first year at the Raiders, I played
Flag and Reggie's I still wasn't in the top twenty five.
When I started my second year, I got my money
at increased to fifteen grand because.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I must know that Stephen loves a money question, because
it's going to be some questionians. I was ready to
go with the follow up.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Because I had because I had played X amount of
reserve grade games, they up my money for the following year,
but it still wasn't a top twenty five. But I
was invited to train full time in pre season with
the first grade squad, and then I got asked to

(37:49):
trial in one of the first trials for first grade
last minute because one of the guys got injured at training,
and that was against Paramatta down in Biger. I played
center and I must have went all right. I thought
it was a trial because the Raiders didn't really put
a full strength side together, but when I saw the
teamless for power, it was like their full strength side.

(38:10):
I was like, what who are you marking? Oh man?
I can't remember, but what I do remember is David Sliwano.
That was he a para. Then I'm pretty sure he's
that power. By then he was playing Nathan heind Marsh
Ian heind Marsh, so they had, you know. And then
I must have went all right. I got asked to

(38:31):
trial in the second trial, and then I made the
seventeen to play in round one here and oh here
in New Zealand against the Warriors, and that's when I
made my debut.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
So when you played your major debut against the Warriors,
did you feel like you had a point to prove?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yep, I still had that chip on my shoulder around man,
you guys didn't want me. I want to, you know,
show you that he made a mistake. In two thousand
and one, that was Daniel Anderson's era, so that was
his first year as Warriors coach. So at the end
of two thousand I had made the junior Kiwi's and

(39:13):
we had played against the junior Kangaroos in Townsville. I
didn't know this, but Ando and mc watson were in
the stands. They actually went there to watch one of
the halves for the Junior Kangaroos, Luke Brannigan, and then
they saw me play. But then they found out that
I was still contracted to the Raiders. Two thousand and one,

(39:37):
bade my debut and then I can't remember what round
it was, but we ended up playing the Warriors again,
by this time over in Canberra and I've gone more too.
Tony gone in contact with me. He goes, bro come
catch up, have a feed. So we went down to
one of the walls in Camberan and we were just

(39:58):
having a feed and he goes, oh, after the game tomorrow,
come over. The club wants to talk to you. I
was like hey. I was like, oh yeah. So we
played the game on Saturday night and then I finish
we won, finished the game, and then I'll head over
to the hotel. As I'm walking in, Ando walks past

(40:23):
and sees me and carries on walking doesn't acknowledge me,
and I'm like hey. Then I turned down and look
at a lobby and there's Eric Watson, Mick Watson, and
Tony Kemp and they waive me to come down. So
I'll go down and I sit down, and then I
get introduced to obviously all of them, and they said,

(40:44):
you just have to excuse Daniel. He can't be here
because he's breaking downer, you know. Was like, man, I'm
not going to be in this meeting. And so mixt
sort of selling the club, telling me that they and
they wanted me to come back home. They watched me
play at the Junior Key was versus Junior Kangaroos, and

(41:06):
I said, oh, man, I've just activated a clause in
my Raiders contract that extended it another year. So if
I had played five first grade games, I got an
upgrade and a year extension. I just played my seventh
game and then I said, oh, I've still got another year.
And then Eric Watson sitting there like, mate, just get

(41:29):
it done, like he's talking to his guys. Mate, whatever
it takes, just bring him home. So we finished the
meeting and then I remember I was talking to my
agent and I said, man, I want out, because when
I left there, mentally, I was already got checked out
of the Raiders. Yeah, I sort of didn't really want
to be there anymore. By that time, Mal had left

(41:50):
and now Maddy Elliott was the new Raiders coach. He
had got wind and obviously I wanted to leave. And
he called me in and we had had a big
meeting and he was like, man, you know, we can see, uh,
you know, I can see us building a really good
team and you're a big part of that. You know,
we don't want to let you go. And I was like, oh, sorry, Maddie, Man,

(42:12):
I'm homesick. I just want to leave. And then I
ended up leaving. I was still contracted to the Raiders.
At the end of that year, I left still contract
to the Raiders, and the Warriors hadn't finalized my deal.
Yet I find out like years later when I was
speaking to Mick, he goes, man, remember how we got
you out of your contract at the Raiders. Do you

(42:34):
know what we had to do to get you back home?
So the Raiders, he will tell me. The Raiders were
like trying to throw everything at them. Yep, you can
take he can have, We're released them, but you've got
to take these two players with as a deal. And
they because like, no, we're not taking them. It's like, okay,
you got to pay us X amount and no, we're
not paying that. So it just dragged on. So I'm
sitting in Wellington because I'm back home with mom and Dad,

(42:57):
just twiddling my thumbs. I can't even preason had already
started at the Warriors and I'm still in Wellington. It
wasn't until the like mad to late November that I
finally got the quarters. Hey, it's all sorted, come up
to Auckland. And then yeah, went up to Auckland and
joined the boys.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
So this four years at the Warriors is like the
most Warriors four year cycle ever.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Right.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
So two thousand and two Grand Final, two thousand and three,
Top eight, two thousand and four is their worst year ever.
In two thousand and five is a rebuild. It's just
like a cycle that it's so Warriors. But we're going
to get into some nitty gritty stuff. But overall, what
is your reflection of your time at the Warriors. How
do you look back on it.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
There's a few probably key points when I look back
at my time at the Warriors. One is I'm grateful
that I was able to come back home and forge
some really good friendships that you know, I call it
the brotherhood. During my time at the club. These are,
you know, boys that I'm still with today. The experience

(44:02):
that I had always explain it to people is that
imagine you're with your best mates and every day you're
just having fun, like you know, training starts at eight
on there at like six thirty, you know, like I
just can't wait to be around the boys. That's what
That's what I really sort of remember. From a footy side,

(44:29):
we should have won a Grand Final, yet we made it.
We lost, but we had a squad that should have
built upon that, like and that's sort of, you know,
one of the things that I sort of regret because
when I look back at my time, I was just
along for the ride. I know, looking back now, I

(44:50):
had the potential and the talent to really make a
big impact, you know during my time. You know, there
was not one time during my whole NRL career that
I see to myself, I want to win an n
ERL Greend Final. That never entered my mind, you know.

(45:13):
And honestly, if he asked some of the boys at
the club, at the Warriors probably never entered their mind too.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
That's such a not crazy admission, but that's such a
real admission for a former player to make.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, I don't think. I don't think. It's not that
we we didn't believe we could win a camp. All
I was like, what I was trying to say was
that wasn't at the forefront of my mind. And probably
like I'll give you an example. So we're in the
team room. We've got table tennis and a big screen

(45:49):
projector and that, and so we're all just lounging out
there and Daniel Anderson walks in and he's like, oh, man,
what about that game last night Saint Georgian And the
boys look at each other like, yeah, man, far what
a game? And he goes they didn't even play last night.

(46:11):
So he couldn't and it could never get over that
we didn't watch footing. He couldn't get over that we
didn't live and breathe rugby league. You know, for a
lot of US Island boys, it's like we just happened
to play footy because we actually go all right at it.
But it wasn't our whole life. When I was at

(46:32):
the Raiders, dude, like some of those Aussie boys, that's
their twenty four to seven league. They know stants, they
know history, they know all of that stuff. Whereas me,
I'm like, I just play this game. You know. As
soon as I finish in training all the game, I'm
got other things to do, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
So you're going to question to ask to appeel that
how much time did the Raiders spend practicing or planning
their try celebrations versus the Warriors?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Very little, I know. So I played with Marty McClinton
and he did a post try celebration that even to
this day, I'm still scratching my head like what what
was that? You know? At the Warriors, obviously, Henry fark Peeley,
the try celebration king, he always practiced it. He would

(47:26):
come like it was just pop in his head sometimes
like oh what about this one? So we'll be there like, nah,
probably don't do that. Oh yeah, that's all right.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
So because our mole from within that squad said, you
guys maybe spend more time practicing your try celebrations on
the training field than maybe some of the runs.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
I'm trying to thank you that role. And I know
exactly who that bowl is is because they probably didn't
know how to do a post try celebration.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, we've got a few bullet points. We're going to
work through a few fun ones and then a few
more serious ones. But was there like a big pregame
chat that Daniel Anderson was giving and he started getting
pissed off because you guys weren't where you should be
and you were in the toilets doing something that could

(48:15):
be taken real color.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Oh man, that wasn't me. I'm happy to share who
those players were. There's Henry far Peeley and Clinton Torpy. Yes,
I remember that. This is where you're going to cut
to a snippet of Torps when he had his mohawk mullet.
Uh and uh yeah that and I look back at

(48:46):
things like that right, And it's just the way that
I used to view it, is like, man, this they're
just expressing themselves, right, That's just how you know, some
of the boys were during the early two thousands, you know,
when the club was going. Okay, if you drove into
the Mount Smart Stadium where we trained, you're to see

(49:07):
like Henry's jeap with twenty in spinners, You'll see Monty's
Lexus or you know. It's it was just that environment
that you know, it was just the boys just really
sort of embracing, you know, what what it was to
be a professional rugby.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Leiefler Mossi most sneakers and.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Undies. I'll tell you the funny story about these undies man.
So like it was cool to wear Calvin Kleine Undy's, right,
and like if you're professional NRL players, you try and
were it. So it sort of shows a little bit.
So Francis Billy he used to always like, I'm like, bro,

(49:49):
why are you training Calvin Kleine Undy's for men? Don't
worry about it, man, Little did I know. I finally
found out he used to buy them from this rip
off shop in Henderson and Lincoln Road for five dollars
each and then when he told when we finally figured
it out, but heaps of us went out there and
started playing these ripoffs an Clodes, I thought, even.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Real, we'll be right back after this short break. So
that the last bullet point is kind of leading into
a wider conversation around drinking and the realities of what
it looked like across your time at the Warriors. So
it was about breath testing and then breath testing after matches,

(50:32):
and you'd like suck in and not blow out so
you'd pass, which is kind of I think it was
suggested to us as a bit of a light hearted gag,
but I think it speaks to the wider theme of
those four years, like what what did life look like
for you on and off the field? How often were
you drinking? What what did weekends look like?

Speaker 2 (50:53):
It was a real roller coaster, Like you know, I
played eleven or twelve games for the Raiders, so I
wasn't a public I didn't have a public profile. My
first year at the Warriors, I think I only played
ten or eleven games, so I still didn't have a
public profile. People didn't know me, so I was still
going out and old would recognize me. Two thousand and three.

(51:15):
I think I played in round four or five. I
got caught in and then I ended up. I carried
on playing, and then the game that we played against
the Broncos over in Brisbane and I threw that pass
over my head that catapulted me into the public sphere

(51:40):
because before that pass I would go up, no one
would not know who I was. And it was literally
instantly overnight as soon as I did that pass, like
everyone's knowing, like knows who I am. And for me,
it was really hard to fathom because one day I
met at Z fulling up my car and no one
knows me. After that pass, I go and full up

(52:02):
and You're like John it, I'm like, god, do I
know you? Awesome game, bro? Good luck this weekend. I'm like, oh, thanks,
I'll go to a cafe. And you know, before that pass,
I had to pay. Now, after that pass, start up
broke aw good It's on us and I'm like, hey,

(52:24):
oh can I bring my family next time now? But
it was literally for me in two thousand and three,
after that pass, that's where the whole public profile everything
just took off. Man, it was crazy because I'll tell
you the story after that game, I got concust Andrew
g flipping got me good, and I knew that sitting

(52:45):
on the sideline when I walked off, all I was
thinking about was flip, Man, they're not going to let
me drink because I got concussed and behold at the
end of the game and it comes out to me,
you're off the piss tonight. But I've got all my
family that live in Brisbane. I'm like, oh yeah, all right. Then,
so we go to this bar and it's down on
the lake, down on the Brisbane River. I forgot the

(53:08):
name of it, and I go out of my uncle.
I'm not drinking. We walk in and they've got plasma
screens all around this bar, and I think it was
Fox Sport. They had this thing called Play of the Day, right,
and I got the number one play of the day
for that pass and it just kept replaying over and over,
like every fifteen minutes. So now people come up to

(53:31):
me looking at the big screen, going hey, that's you.
I'm like, oh yeah. And so we fly back in
after that game, and then there's media there at the
airport and they're all coming up, you know, asking for
interviews and questions. Where before that passed, it was they
were never there for me. It was they were there
for Stacey or Arwen. And then I just did interviews

(53:52):
that whole week after that pass and then bold I'm
just sort of everywhere. And that's when I was like, oh, man, father,
this is pretty cooy like, you know. I was like, fa,
this is so this is what it's like, you know.
So it took me a while to get used to it.
Be honest, my head got really, really, really big, and

(54:16):
then it was great until you make a mistake. So yeah,
that's sort of what it was like for me, especially
leading into the rest of my career after that.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
On the drinking stuff, though, I'd read some of the
media stuff and it would talk about you being out
until seven or eight in the morning and then turning
up for training.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Did that happen? Yep, Yes, yes it did. And my
thought process at the time was I was that guy
that could go out all night and turn up to
training and still come first in all our fitness drills.

(55:05):
That was me. I smoked, I drank, partied hard, but
I'd trained even harder. So that's how I used to
validate that right. And some of the boys used to
get real pissed off man, because they were like, man,
how can you are you still drunk? How can you
and come and beat us all in? Right? And so
for me, I was like, well, you know, I'm still

(55:28):
turning up to training, I'm still going hard and winning.
And so that's how I That's what I used to
validate me going out midweek and drinking hard the way
that I did, because I could still turn up and
train the house done.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
Did anyone try and have the opposite conversation? Imagine how
much bitter you would be if you didn't do this.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, I think it's it's hard to have that conversation
with a teammate, like I know. Years later, Yaina, he
messaged me. I think this is when I released my
book and I started to share a bit about my
story and he messaged me one time and he goes, oh, brother,

(56:11):
like me and the boys we knew you were you know,
they're going through some stuff and you're drinking, but we
just didn't know how to approach you. And he's it
was almost like he was apologizing. And I was like, oh, man,
thanks for thanks for your message. Bro. It's yeah, it
means a lot. But at the time. Yeah, I just

(56:31):
I think it was just a bit difficult to have
that conversation. One of the reasons why was because it's like,
if they did try and intervene, my response to them was,
but bro, I'm still killing at training, Like what I'm not?
You know? So I think that's maybe why it's like, man,
how can we tell you to stop when he's still
beating us and training still turns up? You know.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
So when you think back to that now, like, how
do you feel about it? Because you were still like,
you were still an incredible player, but you could have
been one of the best we ever had. Do you
think about that?

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yep, I do. I used to think about that a lot.
I guess one of the things that sort of stands
out of my mind was Peter Sterling once sort of
you know, said to me, and you know that, and
you know you could have been one of the greatest
to come out of New Zealand and not, you know.

(57:33):
I guess that's one of the I guess the downsides
to looking back on my career because I was so
naturally talented, but I didn't put in the hard work
to really amplify that talent. I only ever showed glimpses
of what I could do. So to answer your question, Steve, Yeah, man,

(57:53):
I used to think about that a lot. And I'll
be obviously opening up front here on this podcast to
say that if I had had the right mindset, I've
been in the right sort of environment socially and being
as more professional as I could, I probably could have
been one of the greatest.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
When you going out as much as you were, and
the social life, like a lot of it wouldn't have
been reported, but some of it would. And there's some
some sort of major ones that made the headlines. Punching
Ellen Bunting, the current Black Fans coach in two thousand
and four, that was one that obviously caught the headlines.

(58:37):
You when something like that happens, do you go into
like we spoke about before, that's a few days of
oh fuck, and then you sort of pull yourself out again.
Is that that same pattern repeating?

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Yep, it does, especially in two thousand and four, because
I had a number of incidents and that was exactly
the pattern. I'm driving home back from after that incident
and then I get the phone call from mc watson.
It's making there coming to my office tomorrow what happened
down there, and then my heart sank. I get home

(59:08):
and the last thing I wanted to do was go
see MC. I literally did not want to leave my house,
so I go. I have the meeting with Mick, had
to do this Sunday News interview, and then after that,
I just went straight home, stayed in my shell, you know.
But then you know, the sun comes up the next
day and slowed me very slowly. You start to sort

(59:31):
of get out of that state, and then everything's fine,
and then boom another incident. Apparently I abuse some guy
to atm and I'm like, oh, here we go again.
Back it down in the slumps, come back up, and
then boom another incident. You know, me and Tim Apotter
are reported to have a domestic you know, altercation. I

(59:53):
smashed their car up, back down again. Well, you know,
it's just like, man, how do I get myself out
of this?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
And at the time, because I know, context is really
important for you when you're retelling these things, because I
think for us as bystanders, we just see the headline
is in trouble again, what were the what was the
actual things that were happening in the background around two
thousand and four, it's hone in on that drove you

(01:00:24):
to drinking like that or drove you into those frames
of mind, if you're open to sharing it as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm open, But I also want to
be open enough to say that, you know, I didn't
take ownership for a lot of what happened during that time.
There were a few factors. My relationship at the time
was a big factor. You know, It's one thing being

(01:00:54):
a high profile person by yourself. It's another being in
a relationship with another high profile person. So you know,
when me and Timopatter got together, right, it was like, man,
it's the profile just went through the roof. And then

(01:01:17):
after that incident in forty, now I'm the bad boy
of league, dating the golden girl, musing on sport. And
then so that's going on in my mind, trying to
deal with that. And then two thousand and four, the Warriors,
we'd lose five from six start the season, Alie leaves

(01:01:39):
and over resigns. When for the last probably you know,
the last two years, all we've experienced as some form
of success. Now wh're you know, not doing great? And
I'm like, oh man, this sucks you know, so all
of that stuff's happening, and I'm twenty three years old,

(01:02:04):
and you know, I'm like, man, how do I deal
with this? So I got to the point where halfway
through that year, I went to my dad and I
told my dad I wanted to quit. And I said, Dad,
but I'm done. I don't want to play play anymore.
And then he goes, son, I'll support whatever decision you

(01:02:26):
want to make, but just remember, if you do stop
playing league, what are you going to do with your life?
That's a good question. I had no formal qualifications, you know.
The only job that I had was experienced was when
I was at the Raiders hanging up curtains and blinds,

(01:02:46):
and I was like, oh, man, what am I going
to do? I didn't care because basically the next day
I would go and drive into the club and I
walked into Ando's office and Andrews about to yell at
me because I just had another incident that he got
wind of. So I walk in and he's about to

(01:03:07):
yell at me, and I slammed the door and I
said and I quit, And his whole demeanor changed. He
was just like, oh, oh, what what I said? I've
had enough, and he goes, mate, come come sit down
and have a chat. And he goes, what's wrong? And
I said, and man, I just can't deal with the cinema.
I don't want to play, you know, I just want

(01:03:29):
to get out of here. And and he goes, oh,
what if I give you some time off, you know,
just let it, let it sim I have a think first,
and then if you still feel the same way, then
come back and tell me. And I was like, oh, man,
I'm not I don't know way like, I'm pretty set.
I want to finish. Then then and it proceeds to say,

(01:03:52):
he goes, how about this, We've got the anzac ki
we test. Yeah, man, he goes, I've got the Antact
key Wit test coming up. Make yourself just carry on.
It's next week. Carry on, play the test and then
you can let me know how you feel about that
if you still want to quit. And I was like, oh,

(01:04:15):
you're all right then. So we go to Newcastle for
the key test. We get hammered. What Ando doesn't know
is that obviously Ruben's and the team and we're all
drinking and I said to Ruben, I said, brow, I
want to come back to the Raiders. Is that what
I said, Bro, I want to come back to the Raiders.
So what does Reuben do rings Maddie Elliott then and

(01:04:37):
there so I'll get on the phone with Maddie and
I said, Brow, I want out of the Warriors. I'm done.
I don't want to be here anymore. And I was like,
all right, yep, yep, okay, look obviously on the drink.
Obviously on the drink. Let's chat about it more, you know,

(01:05:00):
when you get back to New Zealand. And then not
long after that and they left, and then Kempy became coach.
So me and Kempy we've got a good relationship. Kemp
He has always had a good relationship with the players
because he's the assistant coach, so here's job.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
He's good, he's a good guy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
So when kemp He became head coach, I was like, oh, no,
I'm not I don't want I'm not going to leave him,
you know. So I ended up sort of staying.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Just listening to what you're saying, like, that's such a
such a spiral of doom there. In twenty four, twenty three,
you're getting paid shitloads of money, You've got a drinking
problem which isn't being addressed. You're in a high profile relationship,
media is everywhere, and you don't want to be playing
the rug Like I can just see that Max, how destructive,

(01:05:48):
how where the destruction comes from. But and I know
that the point of talking through this is because what
we're going to get to on the other side of
how you're helping people. But at its lowest, when did
you did you see your way out? Did you know where?
Where did things get to at the bottom?

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Um, yeah, I didn't. I didn't see your way out.
Only like there was one time where I was like
mentally and physically I was done. Like I don't even

(01:06:30):
know if I've ever shared this. I did contemplate ending
my life. And then because I was the club had
put me onto the psychologist and I just didn't get
on with for a and so our physio at the time,

(01:06:53):
his name Stude Spears, he became my my shining light.
He basically he said, Sjohnny, I'm going to be here
with you, man, I'm going to be here with you
whenever you need me, whatever you want, I'm here. So
I started going to AA meetings and even that sort

(01:07:15):
of wasn't really you know. I don't know whether I
was too much gone to see the benefits of seeing
a psychologist or going to AA, but I was like, man,
this is not helping. Waste of time. My first AA
meeting I go to, I won't say his name, but
there's a high profile journalist in my AA meeting and

(01:07:37):
I'm like, dude, like, are you serious, Like you know
my relationship with the media, and I'm like, what the
flip like? But then I heard his story and then
I was like, oh, man, foh, you know, I didn't
know that, but I stopped going to the AA meetings.
I stopped seeing a psychologist. And then I remember I

(01:07:59):
rung Jude, and I was like, bro, I just wanted
to ring it. Just let you know that far thing
this is that you know, they say when someone's contemplating
to do that, they do it in the hopes that
someone will come and save them. I think that was
what my phone call was because not long after that,

(01:08:19):
you know, and Jude and I was so embarrassed, and
I just had turned off thought the lights and just
hid and I was like wow, and he I could
tell he was really really upset. Liken Charny and it

(01:08:41):
was yeah, that was a That was a time. When
I look back at it now, I'm like, fah, man,
I just didn't know what else to do. After that,
I caught up with Jude and you know, he gave
me a big hug in there and we really talked

(01:09:05):
that out hard to heart. So yeah, I haven't seen
dude or spoken to Jude since I left the Warriors,
So I just obviously, you know, thank him for being
that guy, because he really did help me, man like
burg time to try and deal with some of the
stuff I was going through in two thousand and four.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
That's a theme that keeps coming up in these chats
is being there for someone in their time and need.
And is that what you're preaching on the other side now,
like just keep an eye on your friends, just be
there for them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yep. Hard It's there's so much power in that. There's
so much you know, good that comes out of just
checking in and being there for someone. For me, it
was just hard to reach out to us will help

(01:10:01):
because and Mike and and someone culture, especially with men, right,
It's it's not in their culture to ask for help, right,
It's almost like they're too embarrassed. So you know, when

(01:10:22):
you're a professional NRL player, everyone expects you to have
everything sorted. Everyone thinks that you've got everything sorted. But man, no,
that wasn't the case for me. So and I was just, yeah,
just grateful that dr happened to be that guy for me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
This kind of leads nicely into two thousand and five
because from what I understand after this, it sort of
turned around, Right, you quit drinking and it was your
best season. Yep, and those obviously two things looked together.
Is that how it happened. You stopped drinking at the
start of the season and had your best year.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Yeah. So when Kimpi started the two thousand and five campaign,
which started in pre season two thousand and four, he
had we had a chat and he put a drinking
band on me for the preseason. So seven days a

(01:11:16):
week I had to you know, we trained, and then
the days off, I still had to turn up the
training and I would either train or they'll just check
that I wasn't on the on the drink. For me.
When he first said that, I was like, man, that's
boat cramp, like, you know, but I could see he

(01:11:38):
was just trying to help. And so then I ended
up carrying that on, I started going back to church
with my mum, and yeah, you know, two thousand and
five was probably my best year. I remember before the start,
we had just moved into the new premises, which was

(01:11:59):
underneath the main and stand, the new training facility, and
they started putting up these photos of the player of
the year for the Warriors from inception through to prison
and I remember thinking to myself, man, you know what,
I'm going to get my photo up there this year,
Like that's that's going to be a personal goal of

(01:12:20):
mine because if I do that, I'm going to help
the team with how I perform. And so yeah, man,
it's you know, I went out there, I was off
the drink for ages and just playing some of my
best footy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Did you win the award?

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
No? No, no, I didn't win the award. So we
had our end of our end of season prize giving,
and you know, it's I don't know, it's funny just
talking about today with you guys, because it's really it
really is taking me back to the actual war dinner

(01:13:00):
because leading up to it, you know, a few of
the boys are coming up to me and they're like, oh, bro,
you got your you got your speech, what are you
going to say? And then even there were even like
some reports in the media like, oh, you know, farm
winners probably in line to get the Player of the year, And.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Did your appears know how important that was to you?
Had you spoken well, that was a goal? Was that
just an internal goal?

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
It's just my my own goal, And I know, you know,
looking back on it, I'm like, I'm like, man, was
that was that ego driven or was it really to
try and help the team? I think it was a
bit of both. I knew that if I got my
photo on the wall, it's going to be there forever.

(01:13:51):
So that's why, you know, that's probably the ego side.
From a team perspective, I knew that if I could
be Player of the Year, I'm playing my best footy
to help the team. So throughout that whole two thousand
and five season, every time we were behind in a game,

(01:14:11):
the message would come out from the runners to me
was from Kemp. He was like, Keep said you need
to get in the game. Keep said you need to
get your hands on the ball. Keep said you need
to do something. And I'm like, hey, I'm like yeah,
all right, then, you know so and there were games

(01:14:32):
that I did, you know, I was just in a
real good frame of mind to really focus on trying
to play good footy. And then I started to build
this confidence around how I was playing, and I just
every like So for example, the previous years, mate, I'll
just go into a game and just play, didn't do
much prep nothing before, you know, like, just go in

(01:14:54):
and play. Two thousand and five, i'd really mentally try
and prepare. And so people may view that says, oh, man,
this guy's a flipping up himself. But I used to
always tell myself in the warm up and lead up
before we run out, is that but no one can
stop me? Yeah, no one. They can't contain you, you know.

(01:15:15):
And I used to just keep repeating that over and
over to give me that confidence. So and that's where
I think why I probably did have my best season,
because there were times during games where I was I
was just like, Manna, they can't stop me, you know.
And so obviously get to the prize giving, you know,

(01:15:36):
I was unfortunate. I guess I didn't get Player of
the Year. I had a big sock because where they
announced it, I got up from my table left gave
the death stare to the management and coaches. As I
was walking out, went downstairs to the bar because we
had it at the Heritage. I ordered for tequila shots,

(01:16:00):
appealing them back. I got to about the fourth shot,
the last shot, and then I hear this this guy.
I go, hey, slow down, wait for me, like, here's
that And I turned around and it's it's Jerry Collins.
So the ABS were in town and Jerry was injured.
So I'd known Jerry from back in Wellington when he
was at Saint Pat's. So he come in and we started,

(01:16:24):
you know, drinking, and then we started bar hopping, and
I was, you know, just real my mind. I was like, man,
if this bro like stuff. And then I had an
incident that didn't make the papers, and that was pretty

(01:16:44):
much the catalyst of me spiring me back out, because
things then just progressed after that. So I had an incident.
McKay called me and told me something. You know, people
had got in contact with him about what I what
had happened that night. It was an altercation. Yeah, it

(01:17:10):
was a It was an altercation. And then it was
an altercation from what I can remember, because it happened
early the next morning, like mid morning, and I don't
know how I didn't make the papers, but it happened
in the middle of Monica, Monico, in the middle of
the street. That's what I remember, because then I remember

(01:17:36):
one of the boys who didn't play for the Warriors.
I was trying to drag me back in the car.
That's that's the flashbacks that I have. And then that
told me that a person's relative had run and and
you know, uh, you know, I had signed a short

(01:17:59):
term contract to go to play for HALIFC. So he goes, hey,
go and then deal with this when you come back, Okay,
but I'll be gone right. Mckett had already sort of
given us notice that he was leaving a CEO and
I was like, oh, yeah, okay, then so if we
go back a few weeks I Kempy had come up

(01:18:25):
to me and said, hey, for next year. This is
when we knew we weren't going to make that eight.
He goes, hey, next year, I want you to play
six full time, not just in and out during games.
I want you to play sex. And I said, yeah, man,
because I've really wanted to play six and for me to,
I guess be the best sex. I wanted to have
a really good preseason, so I run the Kiwis coach

(01:18:49):
and told him that I'll be making myself unavailable for
the try Nations and he goes, yeah, no, okay, then
thanks for letting me know. The reason I'm telling you
that is because when I come back from England, we've
got a new CEO, Wayne Scarra, We've got a new
head coach, Ivan Cleary. And I'm like, hey, what the hell?

(01:19:15):
All right? So I get back from England and they
called me into the office and they sit me down
and when he goes, hey, your my name's Wayne Scarra.
Obviously you know Ivan, he's the new head coach. I
just want to discuss this incident that happened before you left.
I was like, oh yeah, okay, and he goes, oh, yep,
so obviously you know we're uh dealt with it, but

(01:19:40):
we're going to find you. And I was like oh
yeah ak. He goes yeah, So we're going to find
you twenty grand, you're going to pay five or five grand,
and we're going to suspend the other fifteen so if
you have another incident, the fifteen is going to get activated.
I was like, oh yeah, okay, I joke about it

(01:20:00):
later because that's downstairs in the Warriors team room. All
of a sudden they had all these new computers and
I was like, boyse, you can thank me because I
bought these, and then and that and and then that's
when Ivan sort of had something to say as well.

(01:20:23):
And so, you know, one of the first things I
haven't said to because Ivan Ivan was assistant coach to
Kenpy and one of the first things I haven't said
to me. He goes, you know, you're a You're an enigma.
I was like, what the hell's enigma? And he goes,
you know, we don't know which is going to turn
up every weekend. I was like, oh, okay, and he goes, yeah, uh.

(01:20:48):
And I also believe that you're not worth the money
that you're on. When he said that to me, me
and him got off on the wrong foot straight away,
right because all they kept going through my is hell,
can you tell me I'm not worth the money that
I'm on? Like you were here for this whole two
thousand and five season. The messages weren't going out to

(01:21:09):
Pricey to win us the game. The messages weren't going
out to other players. The message was coming out to me,
and you're telling me I'm not worth the money I'm on.
That's what was going through my mind at the time.
So I leave that meeting and straight away I'm like, man,
if this prick bro like you know. And then when
I'm driving home after that meeting, I'm thinking, oh, this

(01:21:32):
guy better play me at six because I just gave
up a key we jersey for this club and to
play six. I played one trial at six, I played
round one at six, and then he put me back
to the secret row and I'm like, dude, right, So

(01:21:53):
I'm like just like stuff this and I'm drinking heavily now,
like really bad. Because Ivan's preseason training regime was no
no training on weekends. So we'll train five days straight
and have the weekend off. So Friday lunchtime, I'm straight
to Saint Luke's at the bar and I'm on it

(01:22:16):
the whole of preseason, getting on it hard, binging all
the way through sometimes till like early Sunday morning, and
then I'll sleep the whole day, turn up to training.
That was what was happening during that time, and then
Ansac tests Kiwis comes around two thousand and six. I
don't get picked, and I'm like, what. One of the

(01:22:41):
selectors is at the Warriors and he comes up to
me and he goes, oh, man, just want to tell
you that, you know, the coach, he's adamant that you're
probably never going to play for the Kiwis again. And
that really pissed me off. Man, And I'm like, what

(01:23:01):
are you serious? Because now I'm like, man, has he
really is he really going to do this to me?
You know, That's everything I'm sharing with you right now.
That's how I was at that time. Ask me now
to give you my thoughts. I was a man. I
was an absolutely prick. I'm like, borrow, you know. It's

(01:23:22):
just all I can do is just try and pull
the lessons out of how I was during that time
so that at least maybe a current player might be
going through the same thing. Right. If you're going through
the same thing right now, I'm telling you, take ownership, okay,
take ownership of the situation. Yep, you didn't get picked.
What can you do to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
We'll be right back after this short break. In a way,
you took ownership of the next chapter, right, because you
negotiated your own contract after leaving the Warriors? What was
the thinking there?

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
So I actually I actually didn't negotiate my own contract
after I left the Warriors. I negotiated my upgrades within
the Warriors. And so I think one of the things
why Ivan was said what he said was because Mac
upgraded me before he left. And I still think there

(01:24:23):
was warranted some people probably didn't. So and then yeah,
during that two thousand and six men, Ivan is just
you know, just not finging eye to eye, and I
wanted out. And then I actually got another agent to

(01:24:43):
try and look for for a deal for me, and
he come back and found a deal with Manly and
it was for quite a bit of money. And then
I found found out that the deal fell through because
someone at the Warriors has a really close relationship with

(01:25:07):
Bob Fulton Manly and and so yeah, basically that fell through.
I had asked for numerous releases, you know, from the club.
They didn't give it to me. And then obviously the
incident that happened that led to my sacking. There was

(01:25:27):
at that time that was just me like oh done,
like you know, I went out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
So yeah, which was that the last game at Mounts
Matt Stadium.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
Yep, yep, so I was. I was out injured. I
fractured my rests against Penrith, and so I was out
drinking Saturday night because you know, if you're injured and
part of the squad, you have to turn up to
the games. And I ended up turning up drunk. You know,
abused ivan down into changing rooms and you know, just

(01:25:58):
let it, let it sort of fly at a few people.
Because the agent that I had got to negotiate a
contract will find a contract for me. He was in
one of the corporate boxes for one of the games
and he overheard one of the senior management of the

(01:26:18):
Warriors talk about me. I'm not going to share the
agent's name because when he told me what he had heard,
he said, but if this gets out, I'm going to
deny ever telling you. Look, oh yeah, I gay that.
So he overheard a senior Warrior's management from that time say,

(01:26:39):
man has been asking for release numerous times. I'm going
to get him dropped from first grade so his value
will drop, and then we're going to give him a release.
The next weekend is the weekend that I got on.
The person got sacked so when people try and figure
out why did I abuse certain officials at the club, Yeah,

(01:27:03):
that's that's how that's sort of why that sort of
came about.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
And that's very difficult message to get out in the
media at that time. Yeah, like you've got no avenue
really to to control a narrative there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Yeah, because they when they sacked me. So when they
sacked me, they called me in for a meeting on
Tuesday and I sat down with Wayne and a few
other officials. So they gave me like even I don't
even Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could talk about it
now because they hit me with you know, India. Yeah,
they hit me with that. I wasn't allowed to speak

(01:27:37):
about it. So yeah, they gave me a payout.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Don't Yeah, and post I'm pretty sure it's like that
for us worries.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
But that was obviously under that different regime and management
back then, and so that's pretty much how all those
events transpired, especially me turning up to the game drunk
and having a go at certain officials.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
I'm keen to sort of move us along into post
rugby league, but first I want to visit North Queensland
because I'm wondering because that's where you ended up the
next But they obviously have done their due diligence and
they would know what's going on with you and off
field stuff that they've decided that you're the right fit

(01:28:28):
for their club.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Yeah. So before I went to North Queensland, I actually
signed a three year deal of London Broncos and it
was for a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (01:28:39):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
This is when I think the exchange erate was still
two point three two point four to the Kiwi dollar.
And because you did put a portion of your salary
UK salary offshore tax free, if I had completed that
whole three years, I could have walked away with like
a lot of money. I lasted six weeks in London,

(01:29:04):
got into an incident on the Saturday, got on the
plane the next day and came back. Shout out to
my awesome friends that took me to the airport. I
dropped the London Broncos car off and turned up and say, oh, hey,
we've got to see onest car. Oh where is he?

(01:29:24):
Oh he's gone back to some ceiling. And then that's
when I reached out to my old agent. I said, mate,
I'm back, Can you find me a club? But I
want to play in Queensland because my mum and my
family now had moved to Brisbane, so they sat. He
set me up a meeting with all three Queensland clubs, Broncos,

(01:29:45):
Titans and the Cowboys. I meet with the Broncos, first
meet with Wayne Bennett and Andrew g At the end
of my meeting with Wayne, I wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
To sign Is he as influential as everybody says that
he is when you're in his presence?

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Yeah, he is. He is charismatic, he's passionate. But my
d agent that got me the meetings. He prepped me
for this meeting of Wayne. He goes, mate, it'sake exactly.
I was going to go, he's going to sell you
the Broncos. Okay, just don't give it. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay.

(01:30:29):
But when I first get up there and sit down
with me, he doesn't even ask me questions about footy.
Like the first question he asked me is mate, what's
going on over there? And he was something about the
Warriors and I was like, oh, what do you mean.
He goes, what's going on over there at the Warriors
and and he goes, you know, if I had coached

(01:30:55):
that club, they would have won three premierships. And I
was like, oh, yeah, yeah, you probably could, and then
he was just yeah. I just kept on asking questions
like oh, you know, why did why did you want
to meet? Why do you want to come to Brisbane?
And I told him I said, my my my parents
are here, my family's here, and then he just carried
on like what does mom do for work? She okay,

(01:31:18):
where's your brother? It was just just to do and
it's just asking me all these questions, nothing about footy.
And then when I try to sell myself, he was like, mate,
I don't I don't need to know. I know you
can play footy. I want to know what you like.
So then I leave that meeting. I go to down
the road to the Titans meet with John cart Wright.

(01:31:41):
Totally different sort of vibe. All he's telling me is like, mate,
we want to play you at six. We think you
can play here. Love your you know, da la lad.
And so that's what that meeting went like. And then
had to fly go back to Brisbane, jumping the on
the plane and went up to North Queensland and they
really laid it off me a like put me up

(01:32:01):
in a hotel, booked me into these tourist attractions, and
I was with I was, I was being timoputter. So
they threw us both up and wined and dined us,
and so pretty much I'll tell this story. So David
Fai woman was there at the Cowboys, so they gave
him a company credit card and they told him birth

(01:32:23):
take them out to dinner and rest. This old Graham
Murray's passed on now, but he takes me out to
dinner and we're talking about it, and he goes, Bro,
I'm just gonna be honest with you, bro, like what

(01:32:44):
you guys. But the boys are awesome, That's what he said.
He goes, but by brother, the club's mean man, and
so yeah, but then I ended up signing with the Cowboys.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
We need a little JT interlude here, because Jonathan Thurston,
you know you're you're under the wing of greatness. What
did you learn from him? What did you see from him?
How different was he to other players?

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
His mindset, ah, just his approach and his vision, both
as a player but also as a leader. I think
people probably don't realize that JT wasn't naturally gifted, and

(01:33:27):
so he worked really hard and always was always trying
to perfect his craft passing, kicking, and that's something I'd
really never seen before. There was another player like luc O'Donnell.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Was he a grub as a just as a guy
For those that don't know, he was a really volatile character,
especially instead of origin because he played for New South
Wales that played club footy for Cowboys and he just
seemed to always purse people off. But was it the
kind of guy that you loved having as you teammate,
man that you would hate to play against.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Yep one, he was a beast. He was a beast
on and off the field. But the way that he trained,
I'd never seen anyone trained like that before. So a
lot of the stuff that I witnessed a special JT.
And obviously Luke I was just almost like just sitting

(01:34:24):
back and just admiring it. Didn't try and take on
board anything. But Yeah, other than that, JT was just
his footy. I QS is awesome. But I'll tell you
one thing with JT. Man, he's he's a dry He's
he's got dry jokes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
Is that laugh legit laughter? There's a legit laugh, like
that's his actual real laugh.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
His actual laugh. Man. But you get used to it
and then yeah, you just you just get used to
his laugh. But I was really watunate and I and
I always share that in my when I do my speaking,
especially to kids, I'll be like, oh, you may not
know who I am, but do you know Jonathan Thursday.

(01:35:13):
They're like yeah, and I'm like, yeah, well, I played.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
Alongside it was saying, yeah, there was one incident in
two thousand and eight. I think it was car crash.
Then I'd heard you were lucky to walk away from
the Florida Road three times.

Speaker 2 (01:35:26):
Yeah, what happened here? Yeah? I was out was out
on the piss again in Townsville, and it was just
one of those things man like I thought, oh man,
I'm actually I feel like, hey to drive right, And

(01:35:47):
it was just that I wasn't because I drove out
there to catch up with some some friends and I
wasn't supposed to drink. It was just supposed to be dinner.
What happened sometimes is you have one drink and then
next thing you know, it's you're having a few more.
So I was driving home back to back to my

(01:36:07):
house and a couple that with being on my phone,
so I'm texting and I'll drop my phone go down
to get it, and I missed that. I'm about to
come to a roundabout, so by the time I look up,
I've hit the roundabout and it's I've never actually shared this.

(01:36:31):
It's like you're in slow motion. So I've had the dukes,
I've hazard thing and I'm and then I'm holding onto
like this and it literally felt like it was slow
motion and I'm just going boom boom, and then I
was like fuck. I get out of the car and
all I've got is scratches, like just scratches, and I

(01:36:53):
look at the car and it's totally montage. And then
I end up stopping a car that was driving past,
and they're like, mane you all right? I said, yeah,
can you take me home? And he goes, oh, are
you sure? Do you need to go to the hospital.
I said no, no, no, just take me home. So

(01:37:14):
he takes me home and then I go to sleep,
like oh, and it's cops right. They're like, oh, see,
only needs to come down to police. They she needed
to ask you a few questions. And I'm like, hey,
I because they had found my wallet in the in
the wreckage, and so they take me down and they

(01:37:37):
asked me questions and and I'll never forget that interview
because they ended up charging me with reckless driving and
leaving the scene. But one of the cops there, but
he gave it to me, a like really gave it
to me. He told the other cop to leave the

(01:37:58):
room and he said to me, may what are you
if I'm doing? Man? Because obviously he must have been
a cowboy supporter, and he was like, mate, what are
you doing? Like he could have died? What were you thinking?
You know, you're a role model and you know, doing
all of this and he just kept going, keep going,
And I snapped and I said, mate, you know what
the if I'm going through? And that's how I sort

(01:38:21):
of responded back to him. And then we end up
having a really good chat because it's like, hey, you know,
I just I just want to make sure that you know,
you understand, like you know what you have people like
other guys would dream of being in your position. And
he was just throwing it away and I'm like, yeah,
what fuck man, It's just not working out for me,

(01:38:43):
is it? You know? And so yeah, that was that
incident there, and I'll share the story after that because
I was in that same place. I was done right.
I wanted to to quit, and the club was going
to cut They were going to cut my contract. So

(01:39:06):
here's what happened. I go in to have my meeting
with the club, expecting to be rip up my contract.
They had no halves, true story, man, They had no halves, man.
And so the assistant coach told the CEO, mate, we've

(01:39:32):
got no one to play in the halves. A few
sacks you on here, We've got no one. So what
they did is they put me on a drinking band
and made sure that if I even had a drop
that they were going to cut me. The only reason
I know that is because the coach came up and

(01:39:53):
told me why I didn't get sacked. He goes, mate,
you've got to play six? Oh yeah, okay, so and
that yeah man. So I ended up playing sex. I
was off the drink and I played my best footy
for the club. You know I was. I was playing
sex because I forgot that his name. He was out injured.

(01:40:17):
He came from Manly. JT was injured and then JT
came back. Todd Burn. I was a Todd Burn. No
forgot his name. But when he come back, he ended
up going to the bench and they kept me at six.
So you know, I was obviously playing good enough to
keep the incumbent six out.

Speaker 1 (01:40:33):
So, yeah, you retire at twenty eight? Do you retire?

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
No? I got sacked and then yeah, I got sacked
from Castleford over in the UK, and then that was
my undone moment.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Yeah, I want to read first of all I need
to say before we move on, like thank you for
all of that, because it's going to lay the platform
again for what we're about to talk about. But I
want to read a quote from an article that I saw,
and it's soon had the potential to be one of

(01:41:12):
the greatest sporting talents this country has produced, but was
instead consumed by alcohol and erratic behavior. Coaches, teammates, partners, friends,
no one could curb his wild ways. He has almost
nothing to show for a decade as a professional league player,
estimating that he had earned more than a million dollars
in that time. As we're going to talk about the

(01:41:33):
jobs you had to do after league, When you reflect
back on the lost earning potential, do you think about
that a lot?

Speaker 2 (01:41:41):
I used to Yeah, I used to think about it
a lot. Especially post forty. My wife jokes about it
now and then, especially when we move back to New Zealand.
Obviously a cost their living and everything's quite high. My
wife will sometimes throw in a couple of jabs like, man, imagine,

(01:42:05):
if you like really manage your money, I wouldn't need
to work like you know, it's like, and she's right,
you know, I look back at that time and all
the money that I had earned, I could have really
laid the platform for my kids, because you got to remember, man,
I didn't have kids during my career. Now I've got four.

(01:42:27):
That's where like everything sort of sometimes heads home for
me because like, man, I couldn't really you know, set
my kids up. But that's all part of the learning process,
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
So what does that first twelve months look like after
you're done?

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
Yeah, man, that was probably one of the hardest moments
of my life. That post footy. The first twelve months
I was drinking. I was drinking heavily because when I
got sacked from Castleford, I had about five pounds in

(01:43:07):
an account that they put aside like an offshore. So
when I finished, I came home and I had that money,
and so I was basically pissing that away. And then
I think it was my sister, my little sister, because
I moved back home with mom and my sister and brother,
and I think it was Yeah. My little sister was

(01:43:29):
like like two months or three months in, she's like,
you gotta do anything. I'm like, oh man, I didn't
because I didn't know what to do. I had no qualifications,
no nothing. And then she was working as an admin
person at the Jubilee Hotel and Fortitude Valley and she goes,

(01:43:51):
do I mean to ask my boss for a job?
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay, So she
asked her boss. And then I got a job working
at a drive through bottle shop and that's attached to
the Jubilee Hotel. And that was really hard for me.
Not the work, it's just people just still recognized me

(01:44:14):
coming in to buy their piss, and so they would
see me serve them and they were like, should have wait?
I was like, yeah, what are you doing? And I
used to make up these lines like hey, yeah, I'm
looking at them purchasing a bar. I'm just trying to
get some work experience, like oh man, good on you.
I'm like, yeah, forty dollars off. But the actual guy

(01:44:37):
that owned the Jubilee Hotel, his name's Tony. I'm pretty
sure his name's Tony, but he's what I'm pretty sure
he's at the Broncos. They have this thing called the Thoroughbreds,
which is a group of high profile and high profile,
high net worth individuals, and he was one of them,
and so he knew who I was and and he

(01:45:01):
tried to, I guess, build a pathway for me. So
he was like, sure, you're going to start at the bottom,
but I promise you stay with it. I'm going to
teach you this game. He probably didn't read my articles
because that probably wasn't the best industry for me to
to pursue, the hospitality. And then I only lasted there

(01:45:23):
three months and then I quit, and then I did
a couple of like concreting jobs, and then yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:34):
I got a list here. I got a list of
jobs that we've found that you did. The drive through,
bottle shop attendant, self employed cleaner, concrete laborer, trades assistant,
electrical apprentice, laundromat attendant, slash cleaner, insurance consultant, youth facilitator.
And these were only some of them.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:52):
Yeah, My question was how did you go from earning
such big sort of six bigger contracts to these what
I'm assuming were quite low paying jobs, Like, how does
that mentality work?

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
It's man, Yeah, I guess the hardest thing for me
was not being able to purchase and do what I
wanted to do like I did when I was a
professional athlete.

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
It was almost like you've just got money for days.
So then going from earning six figures to earning forty
seven to fifty thousand a year, that was hard. That
was a massive wake up cour But you know, I
remember I was working when I was at the Raiders

(01:46:49):
and earning two four hundred dollars a week. You know,
I grew up seeing my parents earning not that much.
So but it was in that post twelve months I
just got into that mindset like, man, I'm not a
professional footing any play anymore. I don't care. You know,

(01:47:10):
this is my life now. I'm just going to live
to what my earning potential and capacity allows me to do.

Speaker 1 (01:47:16):
So while you made your peace with that, there's a
whole fan base that know you as this person, this
rugby league personality. Did you ever feel when you were
doing those roles or out in the public, a little
bit of I don't want to say shame because that's
not the right word, but like a little bit of

(01:47:37):
like your ego had been dented a little.

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
Bit, yeap that probably that didn't come on till I
guess much later. For me, I just really try to
keep a low profile. Like there were some jobs and
job applications that I would in my CV and I

(01:48:00):
wouldn't even mention I played in the NRL, you know,
And so I just tried to go on and just
be farm now the person, like, you know, not the
former NRL player. And so even if you ask my wife,
she understands why I was like that. Like when I

(01:48:23):
finished playing, I was like, don't don't tell people that
I used to play. I didn't want to leverage that.
I don't want to you know, hand out until I, yeah,
until I found an opportunity to earn some good money.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
So to sort of summarize the next I don't know,
sixteen years you finished at twenty eight year helld you
now forty three? Forty three? Now there's obviously a lot
of twist and turn. Still, it's not all like smooth
sailing from here, but you do go on the journey
of sobriety. What was the catalyst and how did you
decide to stop drinking? Because you were so over for

(01:49:00):
seven stop drinking for seven years? So what happened there?

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
So my ex partner in Brisbane, we were about to
have our first child together and so I was still drinking,
still sort of going out, and then things didn't work

(01:49:25):
out between her and I and so one of the
things that that happened to me was I guess I was.
I started to go in and out of family court
because now it's we're talking about visitation. My daughter was born,
I wasn't there for birth, and a lot of my

(01:49:51):
money that I had earned working in the mining industry
and that was just getting smashed by lawyer fees. And and
then what was happening was her I don't want to
say defense, but one of her things she would utilize
was all my past headlines and then my drinking. I

(01:50:18):
was still drinking at the time, so she was it
was building a really good reason why, you know, I
shouldn't be around my daughter. I went out one night
and got into got into a fight at a at
a bar in Brisbane and We're about probably two and

(01:50:39):
a half years into our family court battle, and I'm
still sort of drinking. I got into a fight and
one of her friends happened to see it and told her,
I saw, you know, blah blah. The next day, my
family lawyer calls me and he said, and he's come
and see me. So I go and sit down with her,
and this is the first time I'd ever heard her

(01:51:01):
really like, mate, do you want to see your daughter?
Like she gave me that speech. And then so my
daughter's mother's lawyer had contacted him and said, maybe we've
got a witness, that witness fighting in the town. Blah
blah blah. That's just going to you know. And then

(01:51:22):
that's when you said, you need to make a choice.
You either want to carry on partying and drinking or
you want to see your daughter. What's it going to be?
And then that was the catalyst behind my sobriety because
that when I had that fight and that drink, that
was the last time I had a drink for seven years.
So I basically went on this journey of sobriety to

(01:51:46):
try and I guess, see my daughter. And that's one
of the reasons why and how I actually.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
Stopped and see yourself. So what did sober look like?
How different is this guy who doesn't drink.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
Everyone that knew me around drinking, they couldn't. They thought
it was a big lie. They all thought, no, no way,
there's no way she is sober. You're kidding. Even my
own family and the that doesn't drink. Man, it was

(01:52:28):
I was just I didn't see a difference, to be honest,
the only big difference was I just don't drink. But
the guy that I'm now is like, oh man, there's
no more hangovers, there's no more bouts of depression. You know.
It's and it was, Yeah, it was really good. I
know it had home for me. When my wife goes, babe,

(01:52:53):
do you know what today is? And I was like,
it's been six months since you've had a drink. I
was like what, because I was counting down weeks, four weeks,
eight weeks, and then yeah, next thing I know, I
had seven seven years sober.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
At what point of that journey did you decide to start? Well,
how did the book come about? Because I feel like,
without putting words in your mouth, the book almost unlocks
who you are now.

Speaker 2 (01:53:23):
Yeah, the book comes out, I think about two years
into my sobriety, and then my best mate Sar, was like, man,
you should write a book. You know will be called
for people to sort of see where you've come from.
And so that that's how it all started. So so
what I did was I'll write chapters and then I'll

(01:53:46):
send it off to sign he'll rewrite it so it
doesn't sound like a twelve year old wrote a book,
because I has always been quite a wordsmith. Quick story
on Sar, I used to get them to write my
love letters.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
That that process though, of it's journaling, essentially taking yourself
back into some of the more difficult times in various
you know, I don't imagine it was very quick, Yeah,
very quick a process. Did you start to make sense
of the world or what had been and did you

(01:54:29):
then start to make other changes in your life?

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
Yeah, it's it's great that you bring that up, because
it is exactly that. It was just like journaling, because
I didn't think of it at the time when I
was writing my book. But now that you've brought it up, like,
actually it was because as I'm writing and then I
reread it, I'm like, man, I actually did achieved some
good stuff, you know, And that's how I start That's

(01:54:55):
how it all started to play out for me, is
every chapter that I wrote and then I'll go back
and reread it. It was like, oh, man, that's pretty cool.
Oh that was quite sad, you know, And there was
a lot of self reflection. So I actually encourage everyone,
if you're not going to write a book, just write
one just for the process of it, you know, and

(01:55:19):
like journaling is obviously one way. And then that's when
everything started to sort of take shape writing my book.
And then now I'm starting to see a shift in
how I'm perceiving the world, especially after I released it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
Yeah, what was the reaction like from the rugby league
community in particular when you did release it?

Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
It was real positive, a, it was really positive. The
Warriors actually brought two hundred books. That was a massive
surprise for me because I came back to promote it
and to have the club purchase books. I had all
this anxiety around, you know, because I'm like, man, I

(01:56:00):
was sacked by this club. Dated I'm sure they don't
want anything to do with me and all of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:56:05):
But was that a story that was you were telling
yourself was there any evidence to suggest it or had
you just gone I don't even want to think or
look or connect to that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
Yep, that was a story I was telling myself. But
to see them yeah, embrace me. And was it almost
like closed the chapter of you know for that because
after that I started turning up to old boys days
and you know, because before that, I was like, man,
I'm now going back to that club. And that's only

(01:56:35):
because my own narrative was, Man, they don't want anything
to do with me.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
We'll be right back after this short break. There's real
power in owning that story and letting people know that,
you know, you're so uniquely placed now and helping other
athletes transition out of a professional sporting career into what
comes next. So and there's so much stuff you're doing
now right like you're an entrepreneur us through your business owner,

(01:57:04):
but is helping people at the heart of it now
but based on the stuff that you have been going through.

Speaker 2 (01:57:10):
Yep, yep it is. And I think that's driven by
me not utilizing my profile when I was a current
NRL player to do positive things in the community and
especially for my Pacific Island community. So I guess you
could say it's like I'm making up for lost time
now because I guess I still have some form of

(01:57:33):
a profile even though I'm not current. But what I
really try and do is to let a lot of
our professional athletes know that, hey man, just because you're retired,
actually there's a lot of opportunity and for you to
really make an impact and also maybe generate an income

(01:57:56):
off the back of doing some cool things.

Speaker 1 (01:58:00):
Yeah, cool things. Tell us about Athlete Empire was the
vision for athlete Empire.

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
So Athlete Empire was born really off the back of
my book, because when I released my book, things started
to happen. I started to get asked to come and
do some speaking, and then I was like, oh yeah, cool.
So I started speaking, I started getting paid to speak,

(01:58:27):
and then I started doing a lot of interviews, and
then that's when I was like, oh man, this is
pretty cool. So I started to post content on social media,
and then I started to create some workshops, doing seminars,
and so that's when I had this thing around, hey man,
far there's something here. So I created Athlete Empire was

(01:58:53):
basically to work with athletes either current or recently retired,
to help them build a brand that they could leverage
and generate an income off of. So I worked with
some pretty cool athletes, Stacey Waker's the She's My Favorite,

(01:59:15):
Jordan coh the Hemel Scadder, and it was basically just
trying to get them say, hey, man, you know what
we can You can create something and generate an income.
I used to say to the man, you can make
an impact and make an income at the same time.
Stacy is probably the epitomisers that you know where she's from,

(01:59:35):
where she's come from to where she is now. Her
earning capacity is probably on par with what she earns
as a as a professional athlete. Now outside you know
it's and she's she's inspiring other athletes to do the same.
So that's why Athlete Empire was born, was to was
to help athletes be able to leverage that. It didn't

(01:59:59):
sort of take off because obviously what I learned and
I should have known this being a former athlete, is
not every athlete wants to do that, and so there's
only a small percentage. Even if you look across social media.
Now let's say I've all NRL players, you'll probably have
less than two percent that actually content creators or building something.

(02:00:20):
The rest aren't really interested, which is cool. But what
I've figured out is that actually you don't need that.
That's one avenue. The other avenue which I've experienced since
moving back, especially over the last two years, it's just
building relationships. Like the amount of relationships that I've built

(02:00:41):
over the last two years purely off the back of
them being a Warrior's supporter has been amazing. So, you know,
me coming to meetings and meeting you guys, I bumped
into about three people who knew me from my Warriors'
days and they were just heking me to meet everyone.

(02:01:02):
They're like, should it come for me? And I'm like, man,
And so those sorts of relationships are really helpful. And
my wife always says, like shares, babe. You know you've
never had to apply for a job. You know, you
never have. So my first job here when I moved
back to New Zealand, I was a client manager for

(02:01:23):
a company called Alsco. They're a global company. And I
applied and then I had an interview with the sales
manager and the branch manager and tour the sales manager.
Like I said, I didn't really I didn't put my
NRL stuff down, so he saw my name, but they
know I was. We walk in and the branch manager
looks at me, looks at the sales manager and mate,

(02:01:48):
do you know who that is? And he goes, yes,
that's our next interview his name. We spent forty weathers
talking about forty and my poor sales managers like, okay,
let's rain it back. So you know what made you
apply for this job? And then it's just things like that,
since you know. And so for me now, I'm really

(02:02:08):
just trying to spread that message to a lot of
our athletes, say, hey, just because you're retired, man, you
can still make an impact. You know, you can still
be proud of what you have achieved and carry that on.

Speaker 1 (02:02:20):
Did you realize the power of the of that networking
when you were actually in it? Did you actively go
to like you do it leaning towards things yea, in
sponsors functions and those that like did you were you
were pressing flesh, sinking piss.

Speaker 2 (02:02:34):
I was sinking piss in the back corner man. And
I'll be honest, I'm going to name the guys that
were the kings of doing that. It was you know,
we had our and logan Monty, But that's you know,
that's their personality. You know, that's it's natural for them.
But for me, it was like, nah, man, I wish,

(02:02:56):
I wish I did it when I was playing, right,
because it's a now I'm doing that. Now, I'm pressing
the flesh, building relationships, networking and leveraging. I guess my
profile from my playing days.

Speaker 1 (02:03:10):
But the question does the negative headlines from your playing
days still follow you around to this day?

Speaker 2 (02:03:18):
I don't think so. If it does, it's brought up
in a way that hey man, you used to be
that this I've followed your journey and it's great to
see where you are now. So that's sort of how
that would come up. But yeah, I had a real, real,

(02:03:39):
big anxiety problem, especially when I moved back to New
Zealand around what had happened. And it wasn't until I
moved back home and then my wife finally realized, oh shucks,
now I know why you are the way you are
sometimes in the public because she couldn't really grasp it
when we were in Brisbane, but when we moved back

(02:04:01):
home she she could finally understand sort of why.

Speaker 1 (02:04:05):
You popped up on our rader. I don't know, six
months or so ago when you did the interview with
Money the Unspoken and I thought that was really cool
and it's you interviewing him. I mean, you've got this
incredible backstory of your own, but he's another guy who's
had his troubles and he's coming out the other side.
Got a huge response like that's his first big interview, right,

(02:04:25):
Like tell us about Unspoken and how that came to
be and what you got from that interview and where
it's at now.

Speaker 2 (02:04:31):
Yeah. So the idea come about because one of the
guys that and he's a big sports fan. He said
to me one day he goes, man, you know, like
you're somebody here in not to like, man, what are
you doing? Like you should be doing this? You should

(02:04:54):
you know, like really trying to encourage me and inspire
me to leverage and do something. And one of the
ideas he mentioned was a podcast, and I said, oh yeah,
And I'd been thinking about it but not giving it
too much thought. So when he said that, I was like,
oh yeah, cool. So we started to do some brainstorming
on a whiteboard and he was like, man, if you

(02:05:15):
had to do a podcast, what would it be? And
I would be like, cool, I'd love to interview possibly
for my athletes. What would you call it? And I said,
I'll call it unspoken and he gaes, are why? And
he goes because there's a lot of unspoken stuff that
athletes don't talk about, and so that's sort of the
catalyst behind it. I didn't have I had a list

(02:05:40):
of people I wanted to interview first, and Money was
not on that list. And that's because when I felt like,
you know, it is at the right time and too,
I was just too scared to reach out to, like
god man. But then I made the decision to reach

(02:06:00):
out to Money because I'm like, oh, you know what,
I'm gonna have a chat with him and I'll never
forget it. I gave him a messenger call on Instagram
and I sort of pitched him what it was. If
I could record that into that chat for ten like
the ten minutes that we chatted, that was gold because

(02:06:21):
I was like, bro, literally what we just spoke about,
Now that's it? You know? He goes, oh, and I
said yeah, man. So we filmed it and then I
chucked a production behind it because I wanted to pitch
it to Linear because this is my I want to

(02:06:43):
be entrepreneurial mind right was everyone's coming digital, but no
one's going back the other way. So my pitch was, well,
I'm going to try and take this to linear and
I've got four kids. I didn't have time to build
an audience, right, So I know I didn't know for
at the time. Yeah, yeah, right. So because one of

(02:07:07):
the advice, one of the pieces of advice I got
from a person I really respect, said buildia audience, man,
builder audience, and I was like, third, I've got bills
to pay. I don't have time to play the long game.
So that's why I took Unspoken and patched it to
a few other networks. One of the networks was interested

(02:07:27):
backed us. We went for the funding through New Zealand Air.
Weren't successful, but the network told us, hey, let's make
some changes and put it in again because we really
really want to see it. So that's where we're at
right now. I think the next rounders in a few weeks.
So we've made some tweaks to the prop and we're
going to chuck it back in and go from there.

Speaker 1 (02:07:49):
Because you popped up on our small screens with match fit. Yeah,
but they produces are probably twenty five kg's too late
because you'd already embarked on a health journey, right.

Speaker 2 (02:07:58):
Yeah. I first heard about match Fit League Legends after
one of the Warriors Old boys, but they didn't mention
that I was if I was interested in being And
all they mentioned was, Hey, there's a game at the end.
Do you want to play in? And I was like yeah, man,
cool because they were like, oh, you've really lost your weight.

(02:08:18):
But two weeks before filming, I get a call from
one of the producers. They're like, hey, actually, are you
free to be part of this? I was like, oh, yeah,
all right then. So yeah, that's pretty much how how
it all started. I jumped on and I guess the
narrative around that was someone that's already gone through the
journey to possibly assistant and give some tips to the boys.

(02:08:38):
And at a different element.

Speaker 1 (02:08:40):
Had you connected with some of those former players at
all before filming the show? I mean, obviously you're friends
with some of them, but were there some people that
you saw that you hadn't seen for years and years?

Speaker 2 (02:08:52):
Tarbot I hadn't seen for years. Paul No, but I
guess the rest, oh Tops, Clinton Torpy, I hadn't seen
for a couple of years, but the majority of the
other boys I had seen since I had moved back,
so Francis Alien and Henry who lives in Tadoma.

Speaker 1 (02:09:15):
Now, I told you your life was built for a
long form podcast day. There's so much I kind of
getting towards the end, but I kind of want us
to reflect on everything with some sort of bigger questions.
So I guess the first one is do you do
you harbor any anger or regret about your mistreatment in

(02:09:38):
your playing days that you should have been better managed
or do you think that was just you?

Speaker 2 (02:09:46):
Yeah? I don't harbor any ill feeling towards any of
the clubs that sacked me. Yeah, I don't have any
anger towards them. By what I am great for is
at least they tried, if that makes sense. What I
mean by that is when I got sacked from the Warriors, Uh,

(02:10:10):
one of the staff members reached out and said, oh, hey,
we just want to let you know that you've You've
got support financially here if you need to seek some
help in assistance. But I'm grateful for the friends that
I made, But in regards to that, any anger towards them.
I don't harbor anything. If you ask my mum that question,

(02:10:33):
she'll probably tell you a different answer.

Speaker 1 (02:10:34):
What are some of the lessons you've learned from from
your sporting career that you've taken and have helped you
in your business world?

Speaker 2 (02:10:41):
Oh man, there's so many. Where do I start consistency?
I guess having that consistency as a professional athlete, you know,
that's a big thing for me in business is just
being consistent high performance. So trying to for example, with

(02:11:05):
sales in my business, I'm just KPI driven a like,
it's just give me a target, because if I don't
have a target, you've lost me. Like I'm a terrible employee.
That's why I get bored easily. But what I picked
up from professional sport is, you know, I'm quite target driven.
And then if I was to pick one thing that

(02:11:29):
I've taken away from my professional sports career into business,
probably in my life really is resiliency. You know, being
knocked down coming back, being knockdown coming back, and each
comeback you're just growing that much more. So, you guys

(02:11:51):
know as well as I do. In business, we've got
heaps of setbacks, but every time we come back from those,
we just seem that little bit stronger, that little bit smarter,
that little bit better. Yeah, which is definitely what happens
as a professional athlete. You ride the highs and you're
down in the lows, but you just keep bouncing back.

Speaker 1 (02:12:09):
Do you have when you talk? Do you have a
message for people who are in that place that you
were in two thousand and four and they perhaps can't
see the light out because I think you're I mean,
this is the whole point of this. You're such a
good representation of things will get better, even when you're
at your darkest moment. Like, look where you are now,

(02:12:30):
Look at the person in front of us, Like, what
do you have a message for?

Speaker 2 (02:12:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. This message is that where you
are right now is you're meant to be there. You
are meant to be where you are right now because
coming out of that, that's where the magic will happen
for you. And so I want people to understand that
when we hit rock bottom, we're supposed to be there

(02:12:54):
to take the lesson for us to grow into what
we're meant to be and become right. I always share
with people, you know, Simon Cinig wrote a book called
Start with Why, right, you know, and there's a message
that goes around social media to find your why, find
your purpose. But for me, I'm always about who do
you want to be?

Speaker 3 (02:13:16):
Like?

Speaker 2 (02:13:17):
Who do you want to become? Right? Because when you
can answer that, then you can figure out what your
purpose is. And that's something that I learned because when
I look back on my journey, it's the person that
I've become now that what I'm most sort of really
proud of. And so that's the message I would give

(02:13:38):
to those that that who feel like they're at that
rock bottom. You're you're meant to be there because you're
supposed to bounce back, and when you bounce back, you're
going to be even even greater. You're you're going to
start being the person that you were meant to become
and step into that purpose once you understand that.

Speaker 1 (02:13:58):
No notes, man, I think some people are gonna really
appreciate hearing that and just the the openness that you
shared with us today. Man, it's been a hell of
a life, but like I say, I think it's only
just beginning. Like this, this next chapter is there's so
much to conquerate.

Speaker 2 (02:14:18):
Yeah, No, it is, and I guess being here with
you guys, man, it's it's almost like a validation for
me to like, hey man, that thing that's as spoken about,
the thing that you know, Steve just said, the next
chapter it's got to start now. So yeah, thanks guys.

Speaker 1 (02:14:39):
That's like, yeah, amazing, amazing summary. You should probably do
all of our outros because way been a job than
I've ever done on any any of those ones. That
was incredible. Thank you so much for sharing it. I
think there will be a lot of people out there,
myself included, that you have to go through some of
that ship yep to get to where you are right

(02:15:00):
at this very moment, because you just learn so much
from that shit, and it would be easy for you
to look back on this stuff and be I don't know, regretful,
be angry, be disappointed, and I'm sure there's emotions pop
up from time to time that's just the natural part
of the journey. But to then zoom out and look
at them and realize what are the lessons, what is

(02:15:20):
the context, what is you know, what is the outcome
from that is pretty awesome and I'm glad we put
it on record. Some of the stuff Yeah, that greatness
that you're going to move in towards now is going
to be something to behold.

Speaker 2 (02:15:34):
Ah Man, and look, I just want to say thank
you as well, but also congratulations. You know. I saw
a post that you guys put up of your first
podcast to then heading three million downloads. That's amazing, you know,
and I guess you both can not only be proud

(02:15:57):
but also understand that from that first time to where
you are now, the people that you've become, you're just
getting You're just getting started, I believe as well. So awesome,
love it, cheersy on, Thanks Chris.

Speaker 1 (02:16:11):
Hey guys, quick one from me before you go. We're
so stoked to tell you about B to B Speakers,
which is our business that brings the guests you here
on between two beers to your event as EMCs or speakers.
You can choose from well known champions like Siona Matt Heath,
Karen Reid, Railing, Castle, Leehart, Zion Armstrong and Hailey Holt,
to Loki legends like Dave Would, Dave Letelle, Mere Mooto,
Chelsea Lane, and a whole lot more. If you've been

(02:16:33):
blown away by any of the stories you've heard here,
you can now share that inspiration with those you work with,
or you might just want a funny bugger for your
rewards night. No matter what you need, B too Be
can help you out. We're adding you guests each week.
We're really excited about this, so come check us out
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