John MacDonald: Timing of Lake Alice compo offer is wrong

Some people think the Government’s offer of a $150,000 rapid payment to Lake Alice torture survivors is an insult, but I think it’s a mistake.   

Not because I don’t think compensation should be paid. It’s just that I don’t think the Government should be offering it right now for people who went to Lake Alice between 1972 and 1977 and went through electric shock treatment or had paraldehyde injections. And here’s why.  

Remember last month when the Prime Minister formally apologised to the victims of abuse in state and religious care?  

On the day that happened, some survivors of that terrible time in our country’s history weren’t happy that the Government didn’t say anything at the same time about redress or compensation.  

As Christopher Luxon explained it, the Government needed to take the time to make sure it got the compensation scheme right and wouldn’t be making any announcement until early next year.   

Which I thought was perfectly reasonable. I acknowledged at the time that it was probably easy for me to say that, given I hadn’t been through the living nightmare that those 200,000 people went through.  

But I genuinely believed that the Government was taking the right approach. I still do for the simple reason that compensating people for horrific abuse isn’t something that can be rushed. Because, whatever the Government decides to do, it will be setting a precedent.  

There will be more survivors coming forward - as they should. So, this abuse in care compensation scheme isn’t going to be a one-off. It’s going to be something that will determine the scale of government compensation for abuse ongoing.  

Which is why I think it’s making a mistake offering money to the Lake Alice survivors right now. Even though some compensation has already been paid to some and that this money specifically relates to the torture that was done to them.   

Because, just as some of them are saying the $150,000 is pitiful, there’ll be others who think it sounds alright, they’ll take the money and get on with their lives.   

People like Robyn Dandy who is in the news today saying that she’s going to take the rapid payment of $150,000 because it will mean she can buy a house bus and travel around the South Island with her pets.   

She’s saying today: "I'm happy. I'm glad it's going to come to an end now and we can just all relax and concentrate on the rest of our lives and a bit of happiness which I really believe we deserve now.  

"I just think $150,000, why fight it? That's a lot of money for us now. We're all elderly. I can have my dream.”  

So I imagine that she’ll be taking up the Government’s invitation to register for the payment this week. The money should be in her bank by March.  

Whereas another survivor also in the news today, Malcolm Richards, feels very differently.  

He says: “It’s pathetic. I’ve spent more than that fighting to this point.”  

He says the compensation guidelines for wrongful imprisonment say someone could receive up to $150,000 per year of wrongful imprisonment. And he thinks the Government should be offering Lake Alice survivors millions of dollars each.  

Now, of course, different people will feel differently about whatever compensation offer is made - but, in this case, I think we need to see it as something of a canary in the mine.   

The government Minister responsible, Erica Standford, says this is completely different and separate from the abuse in care compensation and most of the victims have received compensation but this is a new offer because the State has acknowledged that they were tortured. 

Nevertheless, I still think the Government is jumping the gun making this offer to Lake Alice victims before it’s said anything about compensation or redress for abuse in care victims.  

Because, while Robyn Dandy —who I mentioned earlier— might think that $150,000 is perfectly fine right now - what if the abuse in care survivors are offered more?  

What if the likes of the guy who thinks $150,000 is pitiful manages to, eventually, get himself a better deal from the Government?  

See what I mean? What’s being offered now might sound good, but she may feel differently down the track when she sees what other people start getting. And that’s why I think the Government is making a mistake doing what it’s doing.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wood of morning's podcast from
news Talk said, be some people.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Think the government's offer, this offer of one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars rapid payment to Lake Alice torture survivors,
some think it's an insult that I think it's a mistake,
not because I don't think compensations should be paid, It's
just that I don't think the government should be offering
it right now for people who went to Lake Alice.
This is between seventy two, ninety seventy two and ninety

(00:34):
seventy seven and went through electric shock treatment or had
peri older hide injections. And here's why. Remember last month
when the Prime Minister formally apologized to the victims of
abuse in state and religious care. And on the day
that happened, there were some survivors of that appalling time
in our country's history. They weren't happy that the government

(00:57):
wasn't saying anything at the same time about redress or compensation.
But as Christopher Luxen explained it at the time, he
said the government needed to take the time to make
sure it got the compensation scheme right and wouldn't be
making any announcement until early next year, which I thought
was perfectly reasonable. I acknowledged at the time that was
probably easy for me to say that, given I hadn't

(01:18):
been through the living nightmare that those two hundred thousand
people went through. But I genuinely believed that the government
was taking the right approach. I still do for the
simple reason that compensating people for horrific stuff isn't something
that can be rushed because whatever the government decides to do,

(01:38):
it will be setting a precedent. There'll be more survivors
coming forward, as they should. So the abuse and care
compensation scheme it's never going to be a one off,
was never going to be a one off, won't be
a one off, and it's going to be something that
will determine the scale of government compensation for abuse ongoing.
Which is why I think it's making a mistake. This

(01:59):
is the government. I think it's making a mistake offering
money to the Lake Alice survivors right now, even though
some compensation has already been paid to some and that
this money specifically relates to the torture that was done
to them. It was just as some of them was saying,
the one hundred and fifty k is pitiful, But there

(02:22):
are others who think it sounds all right. They're going
to take the money and get on with their lives,
people like Robin Dandy, who's in the news today saying
that she's going to take the rapid payment of one
hundred and fifty thousand because what it'll mean will means
she can buy a house bus, she can travel around
the South Island with her pets. She'll be more than happy.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
He's a quiet she says.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'm happy. I'm glad it's going to come to an
end now and we can just all relax and concentrate
on the rest of our lives and a bit of happiness,
which I really believe we deserve now, she says. I
just think I think one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
wiy fight it. That's a lot of money for us
now we're all elderly. I can have my dream. So

(03:04):
I imagine she'll be taking up the government's invitation to
register for the payment this week. She should have the
money in her bank by March. Whereas another survivor, also
in the news today, Malcolm Richards, feels very differently. He
says quote it's pathetic, he says, I've spent more than
that fighting to this point. He says the compensation guidelines

(03:28):
for wrongful imprisonment say someone could receive up to one
hundred and fifty thousand dollars per year of wrongful imprisonment,
and he thinks the government should be offering like Alice
survivors millions of dollars each. But the minister responsible for
all the Seraha Stamford. She appreciates that there is a
range of views, but she says it just hasn't been

(03:49):
easy for the government to settle on a figure.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
This is really the first time this has happened. There
is no precedent around the world. There are some other
countries who have paid out for torture, but only a
couple and very very different circumstances, and they were adults
and so similar sort of amounts. But really it is
a tough call to make because it just isn't a

(04:11):
precedent at all.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
So of course different people will feel differently about whatever
compensation offers made, but in this case, I think we
need to see it as something of a canary in
the mind. Erica Stanford says this is completely different from
and separate from the abuse and care compensation, and that
most of the Lake Alice victims or survivors have received

(04:34):
some form of compensation already, but this is a new
offer because the state has acknowledged that they were tortured. Nevertheless,
I still think the government's jumping the gun making this
offer to Lake Alice victims before it's said anything about
compensation or or redress for abuse and care victims. Because
while Robin Dandy, who I mentioned earlier, while she might

(04:56):
think that one hundred and fifty k is perfectly fine, now,
what if the abuse and care survivors are offered more?
And what if the guy what the likes of the
guy who thinks one hundred and fifty k is pitiful?
What if he manages to eventually get himself a better
deal from the government. You see what I mean? They
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It might sound good now,

(05:20):
that Robin Dandy might feel very differently down the track
when she sees other people getting more, Which is why
I think the government's making a big mistake doing what
it's doing right now.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
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