October 20, 2024 • 9 mins
Former Prime Minister Helen Clark says it's politically viable for New Zealand to host the America's Cup as we've done it before, and if we don't step up, someone else will.
She says Kiwis love to see New Zealand doing well and winning – and says we know having the Cup at home comes with economic benefits.
Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown says the hosting decision is in the hands of Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton.
AUT Sailing Professor and former New Zealand world champion sailor Mark Orams joined Kerre Woodham.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Former Prime Minister Helen Clark says it's politically viable for
New Zealand to host the America's Cup as we've done
it before and if we don't step up, someone else will.
She says. Kiwis love to see New Zealand doing well
and winning and says we know having the Cup at
home comes with economic benefits. Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown says
the hosting decision is in the hands of Team New
(00:32):
Zealand boss Grunt Dalton. I'm joined now by aut sailing professor,
former New Zealand and world champion sailor Mark Orams and
a very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Good morning Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's always wonderful seeing you know, New Zealand is winning,
seeing New Zealand as winning out on the water using
technology and gutsiness and you know all the things that
we like to think New Zealand is a good at
do we have to win it at home for it
to matter.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well. It matters certainly for New Zealanders and the sailing
community and whoever passionate about Auckland has been the city
of sales and been able to derive the benefits from
both economically and I think just in terms of the
whole national psyche of having such an amazing event here
at home. That said, of course, there are benefits and
(01:22):
having the event, especially with Team New Zealand doing well
internationally in those big Northern Hemisphere markets. So I think
it really comes down if we're talking about just purely financials,
to where can you get the biggest return on investment?
And then I suppose there are some political aspects too
about whether tax power money has been appropriately on hosting
(01:45):
this kind of event.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
But there are reports and reports and reports, aren't there.
I mean, some reports you read saying oh, yes, San
Francisco did very well. Other reports you read saying no,
it didn't give anyone near the economic benefits that were promised.
The same with Bermuda.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, it's very difficult to calculate in really accurate terms
the economic benefit from these kinds of events because many
of those benefits are intangible. So it's very difficult, for example,
to measure things like what's the impact on the reputation
of New Zealand internationally? How does that potentially benefit business
(02:21):
deals that we might have in the future, How does
it impact tourism into New Zealand. So those things are
all wild estimates and have huge ranges, right, So has
one of the challenges is.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It even worth putting forward and economic cost benefit analysis
when there are so many intangibles, when there are so
many differing reports depending on who's commissioning the report. Do
we just look at it purely as a spectacle that
we want to invest in or we don't.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Oh, I think you do have to do both. I
think you have to try and say, well, what are
some of the things that we can say we would
know for sure as a benefit, even if we can't
put a specific number on it. So, in thinking about
hosting any major sporting event, what we know is that
the hospitality industry gets a big boost, and we know
the hospitality industry has been struggling here in New Zealand
(03:13):
since COVID times. We know that it has definite benefits
for tourism when it comes to things like hosting the
America's Cup. It certainly has benefits for the marine industry
when superyachts come down here and the money they spend
getting refits all those kinds of things. We also know
from previous hostings that when we have International America's Cup
teams base themselves here for many years that we get
(03:37):
an increased expenditure in the local economy and gst take
from them being here and spending money in the local economy.
So setting aside the sort of intangibles about reputation and feeling,
the national psyche and so on, there are some things
that we can have confidence on that there is a
return on the investment. The key thing becomes is it
(03:58):
worth it? Because the sort of money we're talking if
you want to get a ballpark. Barcelonas spent one hundred
and twelve million New Zealand dollars in securing the rights
to this last America's Cup, So that's not an insignificant
amount of money to find.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
That is quite true, especially in these tough and straightened times.
I mean, Grant Dalton too will go where he has
to go to keep his team together. And I think
we've all got past the black heart stage, or at
least I hope we have where we understand that you know,
these this technology, these designers, these sailors are on the
(04:36):
open market and there are a lot of very, very
wealthy men with deep pockets who will pay so that
sort of skill and expertise.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
You're absolutely right carry And you know I lived through
the Lingey raid that happened off the successful team in
two thousand and then what happened three years later in
two thousand and three, And yes we hosted both those
regattas in Auckland, but I can tell you from being
personally involved, the two thousand and three loss was devastating,
(05:04):
and of course that meant that we lost the cup
and any benefits that we might have had from future
potential defenses irrespective of the location, and it took us
until twenty sixteen to be able to win it back.
So this is what Grant Dalton is very conscious of
and others within the team is Priority one is keeping
the team together to put the most competitive, potential successful
(05:28):
defense that you can because if you don't want it,
you have no options in the future, including the potential
of hosting it here in New Zealand, right, So that's
his number one priority.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Has it just got too big for us? You know,
while we could all buy our Red Sox back in
the day, and you know sort of kids raiding their
piggybanks to help you know, prop up the coffers of
Team New Zealand. Has it become a victim of its
own success in a way?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
See that's you know, that's a good question. I mean
here we and me says no, I think we could
do it if we really decided to invent and maximize,
to leverage that investment to maximize the return. I think
we could do it. But your observation is sort of
one that I think is applying more generally to mega
(06:18):
global sporting events, that the cost of running those is
so huge that especially when it requires taxpayer investment, we
have to look at that really carefully, because I don't know, hypothetically,
if we put one hundred million dollars of taxpayer money
into hosting the America's Cup, that's one hundred million dollars
we can't spend somewhere else. So we have to be
(06:41):
confident that in that sort of investment that we see
a three or fourfold return or that investment for the
benefit of New Zealanders. So that's the critical sort of
calculation that will need to be made. And perhaps the
emotional side is something that's really difficult to set to
one side and making those decisions. But there is a
(07:03):
financial reality, particularly in our current circumstance, is that we
have to be really aware of.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
When you look back, that marketing job with Sir Peter
Blake and selling the America's Cup to New Zealanders was
one of the more stupendously successful marketing campaigns New Zealand
has ever seen. People brought into it absolutely wholess bowlers.
And then of course when Blackheart happened, you know, that
(07:30):
was the backlash to that kind of jingleistic, patriotic marketing
success phenomenon. Juggernaut.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know, Sir Peter Blake. And
the reason that that worked is that it wasn't contrived, Carrie,
It was sort of serendipitous. I mean, Peter Blake didn't
deliberately wear red socks to try and create a fundraising campaign.
He did because he wore them because they were the
lucky socks given to him by his wife Pippa for
a Christmas present. Right, So that just sort of naturally
(08:03):
grew into something that And when things are serendipitous like that, key,
we understand the authentic, genuine nature of it that it's
not contrived, that they're not being manipulated to open their
wallets and so that was a very special time with
a very special New Zealand leader. Times are different now.
Sport has become far far more professional, far far more costly.
(08:26):
If you just look at on the international stage professional sport,
there is massive money that athletes and others have been paid.
It's just mind boggles, right, and we find it very
difficult to get a head around that. But international sport,
particularly in the Northern Hemisphere, it is a massive, multi
billion dollar business. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about
(08:48):
football leagues or the NBA or the Olympic Games. We
are going to find it increasingly difficult for us to
be competitive on that global stage, and especially to host
these kinds of global events. But if there's one that
we could do, and we know we can do it
well because we are such a strong sailing nation with
(09:10):
a great environment in a wonderful place to hold sailing
regattas it's Auckland, the city of Sales. So I haven't
given up hope, Kerry, but I am aware of the
reality of the international global sporting marketplace now.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Always lovely to hear insights. Thank you so much, Mark
Orm's aut sailing professor.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Former Prime Minister Helen Clark says it's politically viable for
New Zealand to host the America's Cup as we've done
it before and if we don't step up, someone else will.
She says. Kiwis love to see New Zealand doing well
and winning and says we know having the Cup at
home comes with economic benefits. Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown says
the hosting decision is in the hands of Team New
(00:32):
Zealand boss Grunt Dalton. I'm joined now by aut sailing professor,
former New Zealand and world champion sailor Mark Orams and
a very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Good morning Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's always wonderful seeing you know, New Zealand is winning,
seeing New Zealand as winning out on the water using
technology and gutsiness and you know all the things that
we like to think New Zealand is a good at
do we have to win it at home for it
to matter.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well. It matters certainly for New Zealanders and the sailing
community and whoever passionate about Auckland has been the city
of sales and been able to derive the benefits from
both economically and I think just in terms of the
whole national psyche of having such an amazing event here
at home. That said, of course, there are benefits and
(01:22):
having the event, especially with Team New Zealand doing well
internationally in those big Northern Hemisphere markets. So I think
it really comes down if we're talking about just purely financials,
to where can you get the biggest return on investment?
And then I suppose there are some political aspects too
about whether tax power money has been appropriately on hosting
(01:45):
this kind of event.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
But there are reports and reports and reports, aren't there.
I mean, some reports you read saying oh, yes, San
Francisco did very well. Other reports you read saying no,
it didn't give anyone near the economic benefits that were promised.
The same with Bermuda.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, it's very difficult to calculate in really accurate terms
the economic benefit from these kinds of events because many
of those benefits are intangible. So it's very difficult, for example,
to measure things like what's the impact on the reputation
of New Zealand internationally? How does that potentially benefit business
(02:21):
deals that we might have in the future, How does
it impact tourism into New Zealand. So those things are
all wild estimates and have huge ranges, right, So has
one of the challenges is.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It even worth putting forward and economic cost benefit analysis
when there are so many intangibles, when there are so
many differing reports depending on who's commissioning the report. Do
we just look at it purely as a spectacle that
we want to invest in or we don't.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Oh, I think you do have to do both. I
think you have to try and say, well, what are
some of the things that we can say we would
know for sure as a benefit, even if we can't
put a specific number on it. So, in thinking about
hosting any major sporting event, what we know is that
the hospitality industry gets a big boost, and we know
the hospitality industry has been struggling here in New Zealand
(03:13):
since COVID times. We know that it has definite benefits
for tourism when it comes to things like hosting the
America's Cup. It certainly has benefits for the marine industry
when superyachts come down here and the money they spend
getting refits all those kinds of things. We also know
from previous hostings that when we have International America's Cup
teams base themselves here for many years that we get
(03:37):
an increased expenditure in the local economy and gst take
from them being here and spending money in the local economy.
So setting aside the sort of intangibles about reputation and feeling,
the national psyche and so on, there are some things
that we can have confidence on that there is a
return on the investment. The key thing becomes is it
(03:58):
worth it? Because the sort of money we're talking if
you want to get a ballpark. Barcelonas spent one hundred
and twelve million New Zealand dollars in securing the rights
to this last America's Cup, So that's not an insignificant
amount of money to find.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
That is quite true, especially in these tough and straightened times.
I mean, Grant Dalton too will go where he has
to go to keep his team together. And I think
we've all got past the black heart stage, or at
least I hope we have where we understand that you know,
these this technology, these designers, these sailors are on the
(04:36):
open market and there are a lot of very, very
wealthy men with deep pockets who will pay so that
sort of skill and expertise.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
You're absolutely right carry And you know I lived through
the Lingey raid that happened off the successful team in
two thousand and then what happened three years later in
two thousand and three, And yes we hosted both those
regattas in Auckland, but I can tell you from being
personally involved, the two thousand and three loss was devastating,
(05:04):
and of course that meant that we lost the cup
and any benefits that we might have had from future
potential defenses irrespective of the location, and it took us
until twenty sixteen to be able to win it back.
So this is what Grant Dalton is very conscious of
and others within the team is Priority one is keeping
the team together to put the most competitive, potential successful
(05:28):
defense that you can because if you don't want it,
you have no options in the future, including the potential
of hosting it here in New Zealand, right, So that's
his number one priority.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Has it just got too big for us? You know,
while we could all buy our Red Sox back in
the day, and you know sort of kids raiding their
piggybanks to help you know, prop up the coffers of
Team New Zealand. Has it become a victim of its
own success in a way?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
See that's you know, that's a good question. I mean
here we and me says no, I think we could
do it if we really decided to invent and maximize,
to leverage that investment to maximize the return. I think
we could do it. But your observation is sort of
one that I think is applying more generally to mega
(06:18):
global sporting events, that the cost of running those is
so huge that especially when it requires taxpayer investment, we
have to look at that really carefully, because I don't know, hypothetically,
if we put one hundred million dollars of taxpayer money
into hosting the America's Cup, that's one hundred million dollars
we can't spend somewhere else. So we have to be
(06:41):
confident that in that sort of investment that we see
a three or fourfold return or that investment for the
benefit of New Zealanders. So that's the critical sort of
calculation that will need to be made. And perhaps the
emotional side is something that's really difficult to set to
one side and making those decisions. But there is a
(07:03):
financial reality, particularly in our current circumstance, is that we
have to be really aware of.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
When you look back, that marketing job with Sir Peter
Blake and selling the America's Cup to New Zealanders was
one of the more stupendously successful marketing campaigns New Zealand
has ever seen. People brought into it absolutely wholess bowlers.
And then of course when Blackheart happened, you know, that
(07:30):
was the backlash to that kind of jingleistic, patriotic marketing
success phenomenon. Juggernaut.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know, Sir Peter Blake. And
the reason that that worked is that it wasn't contrived, Carrie,
It was sort of serendipitous. I mean, Peter Blake didn't
deliberately wear red socks to try and create a fundraising campaign.
He did because he wore them because they were the
lucky socks given to him by his wife Pippa for
a Christmas present. Right, So that just sort of naturally
(08:03):
grew into something that And when things are serendipitous like that, key,
we understand the authentic, genuine nature of it that it's
not contrived, that they're not being manipulated to open their
wallets and so that was a very special time with
a very special New Zealand leader. Times are different now.
Sport has become far far more professional, far far more costly.
(08:26):
If you just look at on the international stage professional sport,
there is massive money that athletes and others have been paid.
It's just mind boggles, right, and we find it very
difficult to get a head around that. But international sport,
particularly in the Northern Hemisphere, it is a massive, multi
billion dollar business. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about
(08:48):
football leagues or the NBA or the Olympic Games. We
are going to find it increasingly difficult for us to
be competitive on that global stage, and especially to host
these kinds of global events. But if there's one that
we could do, and we know we can do it
well because we are such a strong sailing nation with
(09:10):
a great environment in a wonderful place to hold sailing
regattas it's Auckland, the city of Sales. So I haven't
given up hope, Kerry, but I am aware of the
reality of the international global sporting marketplace now.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Always lovely to hear insights. Thank you so much, Mark
Orm's aut sailing professor.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
For more from carry Wood and Mornings. Listen live to
news talks that'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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