Full Show Podcast: 12 May 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk said B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, you got New Zealand. This is this Matt and
Tyler Afternoon's Full Show Podcast number one to two. We
had some good chats, but I'm sick as a dog,
so I'm going to go home and sleep.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, look after yourself and it restart.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Not even up for talking for even another thirty seconds.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right, right, love you, We'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons, News
Talk sed B.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Good afternoon to you. Welcome into the show on this
Monday afternoon. Hope you're doing well. We're ive you're listening
in the country.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Get a Matt, get a Tyler, get your great New
Zealanders across the country. Excited about the next three hours
of radio.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Now, you had an event on on the weekend of
fantastic event.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, that's right. I was down in Phaston and I've
never been to Phiiston. I've never been to that area
before neither, so I was telling you, Tyler. I grew
up in Otago and then I moved to Auckland, and
so I know whole of the South Island very well,
and I know the Central Plateau and North very well,
and I know Wellington pretty well, but I've never been

(01:25):
over the hills before in that direction and it's very,
very very cool over there. Yeah, it's just such a
great area of New Zealand. And you keep finding new
areas of New Zealand, which is amazing that there are
places that you could live in New Zealand as long
as I have and not have discovered. But oh my god, Pheatherston,
what a great festival. The Phittston book Town was over
at Greytown. What an incredible village that is. That whole

(01:46):
area is really cool. Anyway, I was on a panel
on men's mental health with the focus on the rural
community and farmers my south Petty Gower, Phil Quinn, Wayne Langford,
a National President of Federation's Farmers and Yeah, as I said,
it was especially focused on the rural struggle and the
struggle that some men have to talk about their problems

(02:09):
and it's a serious problem.

Speaker 5 (02:10):
We have.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Serious trouble with mental health with farmers and rural people,
also city folk. But it's very very acute on the
farms and it was a great chat and I just
wanted to spend some more time on the show discussing it.
You know, we had a good one hundred people in
the hall and down there in Featherston, but I just thought,
let's take it to eight hundred eighty ten eighty and

(02:34):
the huge news Talk ZB audience discuss it, because I
was very touched when I was sitting on stage discussing
this stuff, and it just made me realize, you know,
talking to these farmers, what a difficult situation it is.
Because look, we know that when you're struggling, the best
thing you can do is reach out to other human beings.

(02:55):
Other human beings help a lot in these situations with
social beings. But the farmers have a unique set of
problems and that their job is very very hard. It's
very very complicated. It's isolated, and there's so many problems
to fix in any given day and you can just

(03:16):
work for days and days hardly seeing anyone, just getting
what you need to get done. And you know, the
advice you always give to people is reach out and
find time with your mates, but you know, you might
not have people close. It's very hard to set a
date because you know, farming happens outside, and the weather

(03:40):
changes and there's crises, and there's things that need to
be fixed up, and you know you've got to get
up the first thing the next morning to milk the cows.
No matter what happens, it never ends. So this this
could be a complicated discussion because it seems reasona little
chance that farmers won't want to talk about this because
the premise of the discussion is that farmers struggle to

(04:02):
talk about the situation. But I hope people and it
does you know, people that aren't farming and aren't rural
will have these solutions to how to work out these
problems when they're struggling mentally and how they did it,
and maybe that will help farmers. But also, do you
know someone who is struggling, and what do you think
the solution is to help these people? And you know,

(04:23):
how do we get people to reach out and look
for help, and how do we reach out to people
and offer them this help and be there for them
if we can, you know, with a slight focus on
the really complicated situation that rural people are in.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
If you've been in a funk and you've managed to
pull yourself out of it. How did it help, particularly
if you do live in these rural regions, or you've
been a farmer, or you currently are a farmer. I mean,
I think it is genuinely getting better, but there still
is that massive taboo. And I know that sounds like
a cliche, but it is there. It is genuinely there
for men that we get told it is okay to

(04:58):
share these things that are going on, but it is,
bloody heart. It is incredibly hard when you're going through
that space to say to anybody, let alone a mate,
I'm struggling. It is just really really tough.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, we come from that sort of attitude, the hard
and up attitude, and I think it's particularly difficult for
some men who, let's take farmers for example, who are fixers.
They fix problems and that's what they do. They go around,
they fix problems and they provide for their family, and
so it's very hard when they can't fix their own

(05:32):
problem and they're way down their list of things that
they need to do, and there's a bit of there
is shame in it, and there shouldn't be. But you
can't just say to people they shouldn't be shame in it,
because people do feel shame that they're struggling. And you know,
I was talking to a farmer who said, you know,
when he was having a really, really really tough time,
he would just look forward to the tanker turning up

(05:53):
so he could talk to the guy picking up his milk.
And you know that guy didn't know that he was
going through tough times. But you know, just that little
interaction because if you're living urbanly, you know you're going
to an office. He's talk to all these people in
the office every day and day, and there's people checking
in on you. And you know, dairy say a load
to the person that the dairy, see people on the street everywhere.

(06:15):
But you can be very very isolated. You can be
doing an incredible job and be very very isolated for
a very long period of time. So it's unique, so
unique sets of circumstances. And farmers arounder more pressure than
they've ever been.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, and women listening at the moment. You've got a
massive part to plan it, no doubt about it. But
I've got to say, you know a lot of this
can come down to that speaking with other men. You
know that being in those groups where it is just
primarily men having a chat about what is going on
in their lives and doing those things. Even if you're
not chatting it about it bluntly with each other, just

(06:51):
being in those groups with other men is massive. That
is a part of the equation. I mean the women
in men's life, they're actually absolutely play a massive part.
But it can't be that's not everything. You need to
have other men around you to to ten to those
things in your mental health that unfortunately women just can't
provide sometimes.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, and look, I've talked to a few people about
this over the time, and with men, there's a level
of friendship that we hit. And look, this is a
step down the track because you might be isolated and
you've only got the people that are in your area
that you can actually hang out with. So your pool
of people you can hang out with roally is quite small.
But there's a level of interaction that men have and

(07:36):
there's a lot of abuse in a good way. There's
a lot of banter, yep back and forth, and you know,
you know that a friend loves you if they're willing
to absolutely insult you, and vice versa. There's some logic
in it that because because someone can say so much
to you and you don't hit them, that means they

(07:57):
must know that you love them if you know it
back and forth, and there is banter that goes back
and forth, but there also needs to be and this
is the bit that I think a lot of us
struggle to get to, is the next level, deeper level
of conversation and having that deeper level of conversation of going, mate,
are you actually okay? You know you're out there on
your own, I know how tough everything is, are you

(08:18):
actually okay? That next level, after you've ripped tickle them
paint by ripping the crap out of every part of them,
there's another level of conversation that we struggle, I think,
as men in New Zealand to get to, and you
know we need to. I think we need to be
able to get better at doing that. And like sometimes
we'll get to that conversation after fifteen beers, but that's

(08:41):
not very helpful at that point generally speaking. And at
that point you're out the other side and you know
you can't remember it all. Whatever the story is, it
needs to be a bit quicker than that.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. Love to hear
your thoughts about this. If you were in a state
of funk and you managed to pull yourself out of it,
or you are involved in these men's men's groups which
are getting a bit of a revival at the moment.
Love to hear from you. Oh, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call. It is quarter
past one, Batty shortly here on news Talk z B.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons used
Talk zed B.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Good afternoon to you. It is eighteen past one and
we're talking about mental health for men in the regions
on the back of a important event you're part of
in the weekend and Featherston Man.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, at Featherston Booktown. What a great event that was
across the board.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
But it is I mean, look, it's a huge issue
and it has been talked about for many, many years,
trying to remove that taboo about men talking about what
is going on in their lives. But it still exists
out there, no doubt about it. It's a very difficult
thing to overcome for a lot of men. But love
to hear from you if you have been in a
situation where you felt that funk coming on and you

(10:04):
managed to pull yourself out of it, but also the
activity that most of your mental health.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, this is an interesting text. He came to your discussion. Thanks,
but you didn't get the dress code, Matt, flash suit,
flash watch, nice shoes, very city. Would have killed you
to have fin a Swandra or something. See that's the point. Yeah,
I mean I had this chat, but I was a
little bit out of my depth actually, and normally when
I do these speaking engagements, I have sort of what
I wear. But yeah, probably a pair of gun boats

(10:33):
might have helped.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
A heads up would have been good as well, but
that was the dress code. Mitchell, how are you this afternoon?

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Guys? Are you good?

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Thanks?

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Good to chat.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
Yeah, thanks for allowing me to join the conversation. I
think it's a really important topic and it's certainly one
that's not talked about enough, I don't think, so just
really appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Well, thanks for calling in. Mitchell. So you live in
a provincial town.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Yes, yes, I do.

Speaker 6 (11:00):
I've actually lived in a variety of provincial towns around
New Zealand in my long and illustrious career.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
But basically I.

Speaker 6 (11:08):
Fell into a thank as you call it, my wife
and I lost our fourth child, you have a miscarriage.
And it wasn't until about three or four years later
that the grief of that, if you like, actually snuck

(11:29):
up and hit me on the bump. And I remember
coming home from work one day and I was a senior,
a senior a manager with a large New Zealand retailer,
and I had issues going on at work and we
were trying to get pregnant again, and I just came
home one day and just got into bed and I

(11:50):
must have just stayed in bed for a couple of days,
just crying and just inconsolable. My grief had just overcome me.
And so the journey from there was to get some
professional support for a doctor. I was am involved in
the church, so where I was able to bring in
a couple of guys that knew me, the kid for me,

(12:13):
and you know, guys that you knew what I was
going through, and over time through some professional councilors as well,
we were out of sort of deal with the grief
side of things. But then the anxiety started to creep
in as well, and you find yourself on this we're
liking it to like a circular railway track. You'reek and

(12:35):
you're just.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
Going round and round and round and round, and.

Speaker 7 (12:37):
What you're looking for is you're looking for it.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
You're looking for a sighting.

Speaker 6 (12:41):
You're looking for a way to escape the monotony of
the self talk and the anxiety and the stuff that's
going on.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
And it just was really, really a difficult time.

Speaker 6 (12:52):
I've relapsed a couple of times, to be fair, over
the last probably fifteen years. And you talked about earlier
in your introduction about what are some of the things
and what are some of the tools that can help
you get out of that funk. And for me, one
of the things was was talking. I'm a natural talker,
and so talking to those group of people and talking
to those people that knew me a kid for me

(13:13):
and loved me was really important. And I didn't need
them to solve my problems. I just needed them to
listen to me for half an hour, and I felt
that incredibly valuable. And the other thing I did is
I started doing some some crafting, some woodwork crafting, and
just in the garage you know. And over time that

(13:35):
became my that became my free space, that became my
safe space. There was a space I could go and
lose myself and be really deliberate about that. And you know,
I was making projects and bits and pieces and and
that led me to be able to share that passion
with other people. And you know, I think, you know,
look to be I'm gonna be honest with every day's challenge.

(13:58):
And I don't think you get over depression, and I
don't think you and anxiety. I think you learned to
live with it. And like anything in life, you manage
the symptoms, you manage the all out. But as a
result of that, I lost my home, I lost my business.
I wasn't able to function at my worst. And you know,
at fifty years old, I've had to rebuild my life,

(14:21):
you know. And I remember that one of the thoughts
I used to have was from a Tom from a
Tom Hanks movie. And you'll probably know when I say
the next Castaway and at the end, he's talking to
his mate about how he got on, how did he survive,
how did he get up every day? And Tom Hanks
comes back with the line, you know, the only thing
I'm sure of is that tomorrow the sun will rise

(14:42):
and who knows what the tide may bring. And I
held on to that and still hold onto it every
day because even if I've had a bad day today
and I go to bed tonight, I know that tomorrow
the sun will rise and who knows what the tide
may bring.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, that's fantastic, Mitchell. So when you had that first,
you know, that real breakdown, when you found yourself in
bed for a couple of days inconsolable, did you make
the first step to reach out to people to come
and help or did someone else reach out for you.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah, it's really interesting.

Speaker 6 (15:13):
So obviously I'm married with children, and this is sort
of that whole twenty twenty hindsight vision. People could see
the cracks, people could see that I was starting to
not deal with stuff, and only after I had a
meltdown did it sort of become obvious that that's what

(15:33):
was going on. But now, look, we went and saw
our local GP and he was incredibly empathetic and supportive,
and we entered into a regime of medication. I was
able to have a meeting with my employers. At that time,
I'd negotiated an exit from my job, which was very generous,

(15:55):
and that allowed me to take time out of my
career which had obviously now come to an end in
that regard, and just gave me time to think, to
get some counseling, to get some support for things into perspective.
And then, you know, once once I was able to
move on from that a little bit, you know, we

(16:16):
started to do some new things, and you know, life
took a different turn, and we moved down again and
moved to another job and.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Started rebuilding our lives and.

Speaker 6 (16:27):
Yeah, so but really absolutely getting getting some professional support
in the first instance, but then bringing those people in.
Like I said, I was involved in some men's groups
and stuff through my local church. And you know this
is not you don't get up in church and tell
everybody what's going on. But you've got a couple of
people you can cherry pick who you can know and

(16:49):
trust and go, hey, listen, I need I need it.
I need to let you into what's happening in my world.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Hey Mitchell, We've just got to quickly go to an
air break, but could you could you stay there for
a second and we'll continue this conversation when we get
back is loving what you've got to say, and thank
you for calling. So we're just going to go to
break and we'll come back with you if that's all right.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, just hold their Mitchell butt O one hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call if you
want to join this conversation. It's twenty five past one,
back with Mitchell again, very shortly.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 8 (17:26):
Christopher Luckxon Prime Minister is with US ree China and
the US if they cut some sort of deal and
the US and the UK have cut some sort of
deal and the UK gets some products into America terriff free.
We have been lumped with ten percent universal. Would we
change our mind on trying to do something about that
because we're materially then worse off than we were.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, we don't want to be any worse off than
anybody else.

Speaker 8 (17:48):
I mean, the reality is the Bret's actually had tariffs
that were.

Speaker 6 (17:51):
Above ten cent on cars as you know, and stealing.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
But they can get Rolls Royce in there for zero.

Speaker 8 (17:56):
So if they're getting other stuff in for zero and
we're not getting stuff in for zero, we're losing. Aren't
we back tomorrow at six am The Mic Hosking Breakfast
with Mayley's Real Estate News Talk.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
ZB News Talk ZEDB twenty eight past one. Mitchell, thanks
very much for holding over the break.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, so you're you're talking about our first reaching out
and talking to two people. We're talking about men's mental
mental health and particularly men, but rural people across across
the board and the struggle that happens in provincial towns
and for farmers and stuff to reach out. But yeah,
you were talking before before the break about how you

(18:32):
you know, you first started talking to and who the
people to talk to were the best people to talk to.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (18:37):
Absolutely, And it's you don't get up and like they
don't get up in front of a crowd and tell
everybody what's going on.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
You cherry pick a couple of people that.

Speaker 6 (18:46):
That that that are in your world, that can support you,
that can listen to you, but they can also speak
into your life in a positive way. And mental illness,
you know, depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses don't just
affect you know, me as a person. You know, it
affected my wife, that affected our relationship, that affected my children.
You know, they and you know children a lot older now,

(19:09):
but as you know, a young young teenagers and tweens
and stuff, you know, they got to they have to
watch now. They had to watch me navigate my way through.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
That space.

Speaker 6 (19:22):
And that was really that was really tough for them.
And and I'm sure it's tough for any child to watch,
but you know, they were old enough that they had
an awareness. By the younger one, the little one, but
they were old enough to have an awareness of that.
I was I was not in a you know, I'd
go miss. I just walk out of the house some
nights and go missing. You know, I just had to

(19:43):
get out of the house. You know, I was founded
down at the pub one night, you know, and you know,
I just I was making really bad choices.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
And so.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
You've got you've got to let those people in, but
let them speak into your life at the same time
and also into your family. And so I found that
really valuable. So you know, again, i'd encourage any one
that's going through some hard times. And look, sometimes you
go through, you go through tough times, and tough times

(20:15):
are okay because they can be a character building and
you've got to identify when are you just going through
a tough time and is it just a season you're
going through or is this something?

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Is there something more going on here? And that's when
you've got to seek some external support, now.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Mitchell, for a lot of men and women too, but
for a lot of men, the provided role is something
that is our identity and that we're proud of, and
you know, fixing problems for a family. And so when
you're going through this kind of debilitating mental health, is
there was there a guilt that came in that you

(20:54):
were struggling to play that role that would have been
so important to you as the provider.

Speaker 6 (20:59):
The condemnation and the self loathing, the self worth and
all of those things you described. And I remember, I
remember laying on that I was I was laying down
and I was heaving. I was just I was so
despondent and I just so I felt so helpless and
so lost. I remember laying on the floor and I

(21:21):
was laying face down on the carpet and I was
trying to claw my way through the carpet because.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
I just couldn't get low enough.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
I wanted to get as low as I could possibly go.
And I remember crying and screaming, and you know, I
just I was just so despondent. You know, I wanted
to end my life. I didn't want to carry on.
I didn't know how I was going to carry on,
and you know, and this was this wasn't I wasn't
alone when I did this, you know, I was, I was.

(21:52):
I was getting some support at the time, and I
just broke down and lost it. And I remember, the
self loathing was just so bad, and I just couldn't
believe that I ended up where it ended up. I'd
worked so hard to achieve what I'd achieved at that
stage and to do lose everything into you know, I
call it losing the plot, right, and I just lost

(22:12):
the plot.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
I don't know the person I became.

Speaker 6 (22:15):
And yeah, so absolutely those things, those things are real
and it's you know, and that that hackens back to
just you know, march our.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Men wanting to be the provider and stuff like that.
But you know what, I had an amazing wife, an
amazing family.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
My wife is my rock. And like I think I've
alluded to, and I get a church. I'm a Christian
and the conduct actually, but the self condemnation too, about
if I'm at Christian, How can this be happening to me?

Speaker 5 (22:45):
You know?

Speaker 4 (22:45):
How can this?

Speaker 9 (22:47):
You know?

Speaker 6 (22:47):
But actually you know, we're humans and we're made them perfectly,
and you know it happens. But my wife and my
family were my rock and you know, and my wife
had to go to work full time. She had been
a reasonably start home mum until that time, but she
had to get to work full time. She had young
and I had to I had to give myself permission

(23:08):
to be okay with that.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, thank you so much for you call. Mitchell really
really appreciate it. And I guess you know the moral
of that story is as far down as Mitchell felt
that he had gone that in time things did get better.
You get right, and there is there is hope that
in time, you know, and the condition you're in now

(23:30):
will not be forever.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah, make sure a good man. Thanks very much for
giving us a buzz and having a chat. Keen to
hear your stories as well.

Speaker 9 (23:36):
On O.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. If you've been in
a funk, odded you pull yourself out of it? What
helped for you? I love to hear your stories. It
is twenty six to two. You talks, it'd be headlines
with blue bubble taxis. It's no trouble with a blue bubble.

Speaker 10 (23:55):
Police have confirmed a fifteen year old killed in Napier
early yesterday was named Kaya Karodia and you're asking to
hear from anyone with information. Road depths with alcohol is
a contributing factor have decreased year on year, down to
fifty seven last year from ninety two in twenty twenty three.
Auckland's mayor says the government's holding the city back. Wayne

(24:19):
Brown says laws of forcing council to fund certain projects
and not letting it reduce road cones or impose traffic
congestion charges inland revenue as morning businesses. The cutoff times
near for repaying COVID small business cash flow loans. At
the end of April, eight hundred and fifty three million
dollars was still owed. A North Canterbury MP says t

(24:42):
two lanes on State Highway one meant to decrease congestion,
need to go. It's been revealed, done, not enforced or police.
What prison statistics get wrong on violent crime rates? Read
the full condiment. N Z Herald Premium Back to Matteth
and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Thank you very much, Raylean, and we're talking about men's
mental health, particularly in the rural sector. It was on
the back of an amazing ev think you were part
of Matt's in Featherston.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, that's right, and down at the Featherston Book Town
was on a men's panel with Wayne Langford, the National
president of Federated Farmers. Patty Gower was there, Phil Quinn.
It it was a fantastic chat, but it actually hit
me quite hard. And you know, I sort of done
a bit of preparation in advance of the speech, but
then just hearing the stories and the full magnitude of

(25:33):
how rough it is out there in rural communities when
it comes to mental health at the moment, actually, it
actually hit me pretty hard.

Speaker 4 (25:39):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
And we're getting some great stories on our eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty of those of you listening who
managed to pull yourself out of a funk. But on
the line right now is Federated Farmer Farmers Dairy Industry
chair person and a man who was also on the
panel in Featherston, Wayne Langford. Wayne, very good afternoon to you.

Speaker 11 (25:59):
Hey you guys, good to be here.

Speaker 12 (26:00):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
It was good chat yesterday. Wayne, was good to see you.
And as I said to you after the chat, I
love you. I love your boots and I've been looking
around for a similar heel. They're a good luck hey
you Wane. What are the distinct struggles that farmers face
when it comes when it comes to mental health?

Speaker 11 (26:21):
Yeah, I mean what's really challenging exactly from a farming circumstances.
The way that I describe it is the way that
the fog rolls.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
In so.

Speaker 11 (26:31):
In the way that you kind of it sneaks up
on you, and it keeps it up on you, like
like you don't even know.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Often.

Speaker 11 (26:37):
You know, you've got a lot of decisions that you're
making on farm every day with it bev your animals
or about the weather, or about the grass or that.
And then and then you bring that home. On top
of that, You've you know, you've got your wife and
your kids and everything else that's going on at home,
and in a lot of cases that home is also
on the farm as well. So every time you look
out the window, you've got you've got this gun on
at home, you got that going on and outside, and

(26:58):
sometimes it all just sneaks up on you. And when
I talk about the fog, obviously, you know, it's kind
of as you think about it from a mental picture,
where the fog rolls in and it just kind of
keeps you year a bit there and you get a
bit stuck and losters as a person in a way
to go forward.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
The isolation is a big part of it as well,
isn't it. Wayne, You said something yesterday that really hit
me and that you know, you've got the tanker driver
turning up to grab the milk and that might be
your only contact for quite a period of time, but
he doesn't know how you're feeling. You don't know how
he's feeling. So is that just the fact you're out

(27:35):
on the land by yourself for a lot of the
time part of the struggle.

Speaker 11 (27:39):
Yeah, So there's two sides of this, like so on
one side, it's got a whole lot better. We've got
social media now we can talk to each other. You know,
you've got your group chats with your mates, that sort
of thing you can engage. You know, most of the
rugby grounds now I've got sets of lights so we
train into the dark and sort of thing. So we're
set up to connect better. But the problem is that
when you are in a bit of a dark place,

(28:00):
when you're not feeling too well, it's also very easy
to go the other way and actually be isolated. So
when you know you got real newsilling can be can
be really good, we can be better connected, but at
the same time, it can be a real dark trap
if you do get isolated and do get stuck.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
How important are those male relationships, Wayne, if there are
men who get into that that space and it can
be hard to reach out to their to their male mates,
But how important are those relationships?

Speaker 9 (28:31):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (28:31):
Absolutely, absolutely critical.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
I mean.

Speaker 11 (28:35):
Ultimately, just just being able to tell anyone that that
you're battling and struggling all just something going on. As
really tough it is. It is literally probably one of
the hardest things I ever did.

Speaker 5 (28:47):
But but.

Speaker 11 (28:49):
You know, guys, well exactly myself, and it's not all guys,
but a lot of guys, you know, they just need
that mail camaraderie and they need to have a joke
and we we talk and laugh and we do things
differently as guys. Right, And I talked yesterday when I
was on the panel that you know, I joined back
up to the Senior b rugby club. And it wasn't
about It wasn't about playing rugby because I'm not the
best rugby player in the world. It was about you know,

(29:11):
you know, having having someone, having someone run at me,
feeling alive again, you know, but hanging out with the boys.
And there's nothing like you know, when you run out
on the field at the start of a rugby game
and you're in that huddle and you look around and
there's there's fifteen guys there and you and you kind
of look at the sideline. Is there anyone else coming here.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Or is it just us?

Speaker 11 (29:30):
You know, And that's that sense of belonging, like, hey,
you know, these boys have got my back and I've
got theirs. If you're you know, if you he's not
in the best place. Sometimes something like that is uh,
you know, just pick you up and makes you feel,
you know, like someone's got your back again.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
What did you say yesterday? You said you may not
have made an entire tackle in the entire season, but
you held up one side of the scrub and that
counted for something. When you talk about that, that banter
with you know, between blokes, this is this is kind
of banter and it's you need it, And that's where
you kind of wrap the crap out of each other
and you insult each other and there's the hard jokes

(30:09):
and that, and that feels good because it's as I
was saying before, that's like, if someone can insult you,
it kind of means that they love you because you
don't hit them, basically as the rationale of that. But
there needs to be another level to it, doesn't it
Because you've got the banter, But then can you take
it to a to a deeper level with a friend
that knows that that you know, you may think is struggling.

(30:31):
Is that an area that you managed to get to
with any of your friends to move it on? You're
playing rugby, you keep catching up, but actually moving that
band to you know, to that deeper level.

Speaker 11 (30:40):
Yeah, I think it's really important. And having having a
language you can use as well, which is you know,
it's a rolling gown to a maintain saying hey mate,
you depressed or you know what's going on? You know
you really got off and say you know as you
hit all right at the moment, like you're doing all right?
You know that sort of stuff. You don't have to

(31:01):
go down the you know, the full path of what
you're thinking. More just just say, mate, you know how
you doing, what's going on? And then and then the
other thing I know, particularly in a rural space or
from a farming sense, is it is just just checking
on some of the decisions I'm making. And and that's
way often from again from a farming point of view,

(31:21):
we see like typically if we if we see any
animal welfare cases or anything like that, a lot of
the times there's some form of mental health involved in
those cases because the farmers just stopped making some critical
decisions there and they all just compound on top of
each other. So if you if you see your main

(31:42):
maybe you should have done something a bit different there.
You know, maybe he's not making that decision for a reason,
and it's just just a chance to ask.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, Well, thank you so much for talking to us. Wayne,
really really appreciate it was. It was great to meet
you yesterday. And I think what you do getting out
there and talking to people from that real experience you've
had is just as so fantastic. So you know, keep
up the good work. I really respect that.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
Cheers.

Speaker 12 (32:07):
I appreciate that too.

Speaker 11 (32:08):
A great chat.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Thanks very much, Wayne. That is Wayne A. Langford, and
we're keen to get your stories or situations on how
you pulled yourself out out of a funk, if you
got into that situation. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
And this rise of men's groups, and I know that
can be a lot harder in the rural setting, but
certainly that has been something that's had a bit of
a revival. And a men's group is effectively just a

(32:30):
bunch of men, don't have to know each other, just
sitting around having a yack.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Really, Yeah, well there is that, there's the having the yak.
But there's this thing about men liking to do things
shoulder to shoulder rather than face to face. It's very
difficult to get men to stand face to face. That
that is confronting. It is they need to be shouldered
to shoulder and doing things. So if you can find
something which involves you doing something and then the chat
comes that, that's incredibly That makes it a lot easier

(32:58):
to get to the actual chat that you might need
to have.

Speaker 13 (32:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to
call love to hear from you on this. It is
fourteen to two.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Your home of afternoon talk Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams afternoons
call oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty news talks.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
They'd be very good afternoon to you. We're talking about
men's mental health, particularly in the rural sector. After an
important event Matt was a part of on the weekend.
There's a lot of great teach coming.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Through Matt and Tyler. You mentioned this at one twelve
pm talking about mental health, about men talking to other
men about their problems. In my town and maybe in
others too, there is a group of six sometimes seven guys,
all ex army reservists, to keep in close contact with
a coffee afternoon one day each week and a couple
of beers in another session once a week. Two personal problems,

(33:47):
health issues, experiences in the medical system, life problems in general,
helping each other generally are all discussed in depth. All
our problems, each and every possible contingency has covered. Nothing
is skipped over. There is a saying when you join
the army or the services, that you leave your modesty
on the camp gate post. When you go into basic

(34:09):
the group of us, I can say still have the
same attitude and well modesty does apply in the civilian world.
The old military basic of always having your mates back
is alive and well in this group. There you go.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Love to hear that. Thank you very much for that
text and this one.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Hi guys. As a farm myself as battle mental health
issues in the past, I reckon the Royal Support Trust
should put on a few beers and a feed once
in a while at the local pub so farmers can
get off the farm and go and have a yarna two. Yeah,
I mean, I think getting off the farmers and going
and have a yannas is so important any any particular
way you can. Yeah, I mean, there is a saying

(34:46):
about humans. If you drop a human into the jungle,
that human will get eaten immediately. If you drop six
humans into the jungle, you've got an eight apex predator
that will kill everything there. True, we go so much better.
We're a social creature and we are just so much
better when we're around people than when we're trying to
deal with things on our own.

Speaker 9 (35:05):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Absolutely, one hundred and eighteen eighty is the number of
all were a little bit behind. So we're going to
play some messages and come back with your experiences. It
is ten to two.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Matt Heath, Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
News Talks' good afternoon, it is seven to two.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Mitch quoting Tom Hanks had me in tears. Reminded me
of my own struggle and journey day by day is
not such a bad way to live. Glad Mitch was
able to rebuild his life like I have also been doing. Yeah,
great call from Mitch earlier. Yeah, absolutely, AJ, How are
you this afternoon?

Speaker 9 (35:41):
Yeah, I'm good Fellers. Difficult topic, right, not one that
I'd pick up the phone to, but it struck.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
A chord very much.

Speaker 9 (35:50):
Not rural, however, but worked in an industry that stopped
quite isolating. So I'm drawing parallels there. And from my
point of view, I went down a pretty deep rabbit hole,
and I was lucky. I had, like match, a strong wife,
and she pushed and pushed and pushed and supported and

(36:12):
supported and supported and advocated for me to get the
right help. Now, my message would be to keep knocking
on doors, and that's very hard. It took a lot
to do that, but it wasn't until I turn across
the sixth mental health practitioner if you like psychologist therapist

(36:37):
GPS that lot. It took me six goes to find
someone who I drew a connection with, and I really
think for me, honestly, it was a difference.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
I mean, that would be easiest to being successful. And
I'm so glad you kept persevering AJ But yeah, as
you said, that would be incredibly difficult for many to
keep persevering like that when they're feeling in that sunken
feeling so down. And it sounds like luckily your wife
keep pushing you to to keep knocking on those doors.

Speaker 9 (37:10):
Yeah, keep keep pushing me and to make the first
call or send the first email, or turn up to
the first session. The first one is so very brave,
and you're confronting all sorts of things. But if you
can must have energy and fortitude to make that stone call,

(37:32):
to make that appointment. I was fortunate and I found
someone great that's helped me on the way back. Yeah,
keep pushing.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
It's a great message.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Thank you so much for your calls. This test says
once the Royal Pub's closed, especially in northern I've met
many an older farmer up there and they missed that
weekly catch up. Yeah. I mean when your local pub disappears,
then you're running low on places that actually catch up.

Speaker 5 (37:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Absolutely, Thank you to everybody text and phoned on that one. Look,
you know, it is a tough topic, but an important
one on the back of a very successful event, an
important event that you were a part over the weekend, Matt,
so it is good to keep talking.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
And for rural mental health Support in New Zealand, the
Rural Support Trust offers confidential and free chats eight hundred
seven eight seven two five four eight hundred seven eight
seven two five four and they'll connect you with the
professionals you need. You can also talk to your family
doctor Health Line eight hundred and six one one one
one six or call three one seven three seven for
a free twenty four hour councilor service.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Thank you once again to people who phoned and text
on that one really important discussion. So thank you once again. Right,
coming up very shortly, news, sport and weather, then we're
going to have a week chat about cash jobs in
New Zealand. It is great to have your company. As always,
you're listening to Matt and Tyler. We are with you
until four pm. News coming up. We will see you

(38:55):
on the other side.

Speaker 5 (38:56):
Of that.

Speaker 14 (39:09):
One talking with you all afternoon.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
It's Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons used talks.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
It'd be very good afternoon to you.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Welcome back into the show. Six past two and just
before we move on, it was a really good hour
last hour, So thank you to everybody who phoned up
and send us a text regarding men's mental health and
how to get out of the funk if you find
yourself in that situation. And just a reminder for Rural
Mental Health Support and New Zealand, the Rural Support Trust
offers confidential and free chats. That number is eight hundred

(39:54):
and seven eight seven two five four and can connect
you with professionals if needed. You can also talk to
your family doctor healthline oh eight hundred and six double one,
double one six or call one seven three seven for
a free twenty four hour account service.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, and I just want to thank because you know
I was down at the Featherston Booktown. I want to
thank them for putting that panel together and everyone involved,
Wayne Langford for talking to us and also a Farm
Focus put it on as well. So there's some great
people involved in that whole situation. Hey, here's a text
came through on nine two nine two. Hey, Matt and Tyler,
I'm a doing not so much a chatter. However, recently

(40:31):
I've had a couple of friends get a little close
to some life ending decisions. I've started to find ways
to help myself along with Men's Mental Health and general awareness.
I've started to fundraise for this. Along with Men's Mental
Health and general awareness. There is a motorcycle ride on
this weekend to highlight this very thing. I've been doing
it for a few years now. Search up Distinguished Gentleman's

(40:54):
Ride in Zed. It's a charity thing. Some big names
get involved, but it gets no real push in the
media for awareness. There you go, check that out. Yep,
bringing with Gentlemen's Ride in Zed Matt and Tyler afternoons
Home of the Free Plug. Yeah, absolutely sounds like you're
doing great stuff there.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yep, that sounds like a great event right now before
we have a cheednaback Cashi's Also, you stayed at a
majestic hotel.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
There is some so many fantastic places in New Zealand
that you just don't even know existed. So I was,
as I was saying, I was down at Featherston over
the weekend for this event. Fantastic event, fantastic place. Love
that area. Never been there before. I don't even know
I'd heard of Featherston, never been there, yep. So great greytown,
incredibly beautiful place. I could move there. But I was

(41:41):
staying at this place called the Longwood, a country lodge,
which is a nineteen twenties building that you would not
believe exists in New Zealand. It is huge and I'm
not sure if the word's gothic, but it feels gothic.
It feels like, you know, it feels like an Agatha
Christie murder should be committed in there. It feels like

(42:02):
you're in a movie. The whole thing is quite scary
when you're walking around. It's got a classic library situation.
It's basically the Cludo Board come to life. I was
enough up in a room up upstairs through these weird alleyways,
and the wonderful people that run it would appear every
now and then out of strange doors. I don't even
know where they came from. It was fantastic. There was

(42:23):
a giant rocking horse. That I was sure Poltergeist would rock.
At one point I sent about twenty five pictures to you,
didn't idyl. It was scary but incredibly awesome place. My
kids I sent them in the pictures and they said, Dad,
you're definitely going to be eaten by a Poulter ghost tonight.
I don't know why they thought of polar ghyst would
eat me, but such an incredibly cool place. The Longwood

(42:45):
a country lodge and scary, very cool. It's got a
tree in the backguard that's taken from Napoleon's original grave.
It's got a garden that has been rebuilt as a
replica of the gardens in Hampton Downs tennis courts. It's
got a croquet area. It's got this pool that looks
like it's a nineteen twenties pool there that just looks

(43:05):
so cool. The whole thing just absolutely blew my mind,
even though it was slightly terrified in my little room.
But yeah, I mean, there were so many places in
New Zealand that you can discover that you would just
never have any idea that they existed, and this place
is one of them. It's got a machine gun tower,
like a huge machine gun tower. At one point because
back in World War Two, you know, that area had

(43:27):
a lot of troops staying there, a lot of the
American troops staying there, and they had a prison camp there.
So there's the machine gun tower from that there. You know,
the building got taken over by the military in World
War One and World War Two. It's so freaking cool.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, But as you say, you know, you just don't
know these places exist in small town New Zealand. That
Overlook Hotel feel, I actually love. It's a little bit.
It's got that overlook feel about it. When you showed
me the carpet, I thought, hey, it's like the shining
but in a cool way. I mean, who doesn't like
the Overlook Hotel. What a majestic building. And looking at this,
so many.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Stag's heads on the wall, just thousands, so many thousand,
terrifying little Yeah, it's so good. So you know, you
may maybe want to go there with someone's hold hands
with but I go there. If you're in that area,
go and stay at Longwood.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Check it out. Right, let's have a chat about Cashi's
so story out today. And as we know, every economy
has an informal component, better known as the black market.
This is activity that is not taxed by the government.
So international estimates put our black market at eleven to
twelve percent of GDP in dollar terms, that is approximately
forty seven to fifty one billion dollars that goes untaxed

(44:41):
in this so called black market. So the black market
is quite broad in terms of gangs, drugs, but also
includes what is commonly known as Cashi's in New Zealand.
So that's what we want to have a chat about Cashi's.
Is there always going to be a place for cash
jobs in New Zealand. The IID have tried to come
down on this for some time, but I argue, I

(45:03):
think there's always going to be an element of cash
jobs in New Zealand because I would better call them
mates rates as. And you've got a mate who is
a chippy or a sparky. You need a little bit
of work done on the home, and you say, mate,
I will, I'll buy you a dozen beers if you
can sort that out for me. Is that really something
that the government needs to be involved in.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
So you want to risk being slapped around by the
r r D to talk up about the black market
and Cashi's and you believe personally, this is this is
this is just looking through what you're saying here, Tyler.
You you believe that for the economy to work, there
needs to be areas where things just happen, a little
bit of cash here, a little bit of cash there.

(45:45):
Maybe the government's not fully involved there, and you know,
maybe just for for things just to just happen, then
we need and then we need that and maybe for
people to get a hit. Yeah, spot, I mean, I'll
be interested to know where that where the line is
on that, like what you would and wouldn't pay for
and how often if it's a regular if it's a

(46:07):
regular gig. So let's take, for example, if someone's mowing
your lawns once a week, would would you pay a
cashi on that forever?

Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Well, if it's say it was a young lad in
the neighborhood, he was fourteen years old, and he had
done a few lawns around the neighborhood and I paid
I paid him twenty bucks for the lawn.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
No one's got a problem with that, not even the
dirty bussards that the id would be sniffing around that guy.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Well you think that, but I would assume that they
would be sniffing around that sort of behavioral.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
You about it, right, So I'd say, okay that for me.
For me, that's oh, we're off here.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Let's we're going to play a break. We're okay, we're
just having some issues with some mikes here. What we're
going to do, we're going to play some messages and
we're going to come back.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
We're going to hear from you because because the iod's
heard what you're saying, your supportive of the cash He's yeah,
and it's turned out and all the buttons are flashing
on and off, and.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yet they're trying to shut me down. It's not going
to happen. I idea, you can come for me no Eatually,
I'm not going to say that that or.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
It's a poltergeist got into my body. It looked longwood.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Oh eight, one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number
of cour the cash's Is there always going to be
a place for cash jobs in New Zealand? And you're
quite right, I mean to question where i'd draw the line.
So I'm not talking about if I knew a builder mate,
and I'd say, hey, can you just build me a
house and I'll pay you in cash. Of course not,
I'm never going to go that far. But if it's
I've got a problem with a power outlet and I've

(47:27):
got a sparky mate, so hey, make you just come
around and just check that for me and I'll pay
you some cash and a few beers on the site
as well. Anything wrong with that?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten out of Are you
like Tyler and you're all for the cashi's or do
you think that is essentially stealing money from hard working
people that follow the law and do what you're supposed
to do. We'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Yeah, let's get into this one. It is quarter past two.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Wow your home of afternoon talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams
afternoons call, Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth talk said, be.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Very good afternoon, and we're talking about cash jobs in
New Zealand. The ID and the government for that matter,
are pretty keen to crack down on what are called
cashe's in most parts of society, and not just tradinges.
They want to come down on drug dealers and the gangs.
And I'm all for that part of it. But what
I am arguing is the mates rates cashi. If you've
got a mate who's in the trade and it's a

(48:19):
small job, you can get them around and chuck them
some beers and a little bit of cash. Is that
really something the government needs their sticky mits into.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Well, here's either side of the argument coming through right now.
This person says informal component component Tyler, it's illegal. It's
not mates rates, it's thefts. Is this texta whereas this
textas says I'm doing a cashy right.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Now, right, sell us more, please, dear Texas. One hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Welcome to show Barry. See you're there, Barry Bear, really
get out, hey.

Speaker 7 (48:52):
Barry, Well, we just do it.

Speaker 13 (48:56):
And I mean, like from I go back on in
my sixties now and I go back to my father
who was doing it, swapping a pig for.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Whatever you know that's and yeah, sorry you're carrying would
be He was a.

Speaker 13 (49:15):
Veg grower and he swapped vegs for fish and stuff
like that.

Speaker 7 (49:19):
Just bartering.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, I mean, I mean that's an interesting part of it, Barry,
because bartering, bartering is fine. No one can stop you bartering,
right that the idea has no part of bartering. So, Tyler,
what was the job that you said it was?

Speaker 3 (49:32):
I was having some shoes with a PowerPoint. Yeah, so
I needed the spark you mate, to come around just
ever look at it, And I didn't want to keep
it off the books. This is you know, after hours,
and I paid him a little bit of cash and
some beers.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, right, so that the beers they can't they can't
take you know, fifteen percent of those beers can't they Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
But it also he can't pay the mortgage on beers. Okay,
so I've got to.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Give up a little bit. But what I'm saying, what
Barry's talking about is barter. Now, barter is no one's
going to have a problem with barter, right. So I
asked you to paint my fence. In return, I come
around and fix your toilet. Then that's fine. I mean,
in that case, the toilet will be folks, but the
fence will be disaster. But you know what I'm saying,
I mean, that's a very different thing, Barta, compared to

(50:15):
handing over money and purposely keeping it out of the
eyes of the r Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
But you know how I could get around that is,
I could go and buy some gold nuggets, for example,
and then I could barter that and say, hey, if
you come around and paint my fence, and I've got
these little, you know, gold nuggets that I've purchased, and
I'll give you those for painting the fence. I mean,
that would just be the way around it. When or
maybe a nice little piece of artwork that I've found
is that I've had appraised, and I mean, that's.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Fine, right if you pay someone in some taxics, but
it might be able to tell me this. But if
you swap, I mean, how far can it go? Yeah,
if I've got a Lamborghini and I swap it for
a you know, an on suite and you know, a.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
Pool, sounds like a good deal.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Does I ideally get involved in that? That's an interesting question.
But I would imagine across the board that Bart's Bart goes, well, yeah,
you know, I've got a peg you need, I don't know,
a grand piano. Let's swap.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Can you get your thoughts on this? Cash? He's within
New Zealand. When it comes to doing a bit of
work on your property. Is it always going to be
a part of New Zealand society? Is there anything wrong
with it? Love to hear your thoughts and.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
If you're listening, ID Tyler's a big fan of the cashi. Yeah,
he's just admitted to it on air.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Hey, it's a part of New Zealand society. Don't take
away the cashi whereas I would never admit to it.
Look into why ID of course he's going to say that.
It's twenty one past two.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Matt Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on News Talk ZIB.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Very good afternoon to you, and we're talking about Cashe's
in New Zealand. I think there is absolutely a place
for the cash job. The IID probably disagrees with me.
In fact, I know they disagree with me. They want
to clamp down on Cashey's across the board. But we
in this instance, I think are talking about tradey cashis
or arguably a form of bartering.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yeah, whereas I think that it's all disgusting then should
be shut down. And even if you flick five bucks
to a kid down the street from owing your loawn,
you should be tasing. Hey, this is interesting because bartering
is captured in the Income Tax Act of two thousand
and seven, So if you do barter, you still have
to declear the monetary value of that transaction to IID
legally is it still classes as a form of income.

(52:37):
So you're captured. So be careful what you're telling people.
Lowell says this text. I I had no idea about bartering,
because that seems unfair.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Look.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I can understand the cashy thing, because there's someone out
there that's trying to operate in a trade and they're
having to pay their tax and they're doing it the
right way, and then someone else comes up and just
rolls up and goes, hey, give me some money and
I'll do it. Yeah, and that we'll keep the taxman
out of it. That's an unfair advantage to the person
that's doing the right thing, you know. And obviously there's
levels of it, and I'm not too judgmental gartering. Get

(53:08):
the hell out of bartering, yeah, IID. If someone's got
something and they want to give it to someone else
for something, if they both own the thing, then that's theirs,
not yours. To get your freaking hands off it.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
And how are you How is the IRD to get
some of their money?

Speaker 2 (53:21):
What if I had a TV, Yeah, and I said,
hey mate, I'll give you that TV for ten beers,
your warcraft, collection of painted figurines and you know a
pair of sneakers? Does the the ID can't get involved in.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
That because what are they going to take. They're going
to take a third of you beers and then cut
your TV in half. I mean there's nothing there for
the IID to take.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah, once you own something, then surely you can swap it.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
I've just had a look on the IID website, so
that takes us quite right. So under barter, if the
exchanges for other goods and services, you must account for
three slash twenty third of the current market value. Oh
that's the year, So the current market value of what
you've got in return for your supply. When part of
the barter isn't money, you must account the both.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah, So that's when you're bartering something for work. So
if someone was going to pave your driveway and you
gave them the car parked in the driveway for it,
then then a loophole.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's very hard to get text loopholes. I'm not we're
not advocating for that.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
But anyway, let's try and let's try and get to
the bottom of that one, because that that seems that
get your hands off my bloody my my car. I've
already paid for that, Johnny, you're a trader. Your thoughts
on this?

Speaker 15 (54:36):
Yeah, mate, funny story. My wife works for ID and
we're there many discussions around the tail Cashi's and I
get off of them, you know, quite a bit, you know,
and they're a good earning money, you know, help you,
help you in this current climate, and it's almost forba.

Speaker 16 (55:00):
So yeah, yeah, right, And so.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
You know, how often would you say you would be
offered a Cashi Joe job? And if so, sort of
what kind of figures?

Speaker 15 (55:12):
Oh, you know, once a month, you know, it could
be anywhere range from twelve hundred dollars to five hundred
dollars but some good coin out there. But yeah, the
wife doesn't agree.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
So I can't do it.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Yeah, And so when it comes to your jobs that
you're doing cash's for, Johnny, is it is it?

Speaker 12 (55:33):
Mates?

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Primarily because I genuinely think it's a little bit different
if it's a stranger, if it's someone you don't know,
or do you think there's no line there a cashe's
a cashy, whether it's a mate or someone you don't know.

Speaker 15 (55:44):
Oh no, you just do it for mates really, you know,
you have a mate out and it's about it, or
if it's you know, a family friend of a friend
and you know, if it's a bit of it, you know,
because sometimes cashies can be you know, a bit of
paying the ass because you know you're doing work and
then you're doing you know, you might do the cash
in the weekend, so it tips of quite a bit

(56:04):
of time, so then you be bothered.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
But yeah, yeah, so what about have you ever been
gotten offered a bartering situation like do this work and
you can have this.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
I had I had heard of that.

Speaker 15 (56:20):
Like this guy I knew he was a diver and
he he one of the guys had a like ATV
and he gave it to.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Him for like twelve craze and ATV for twelve craze.
It's a good deal for the fellow that they've got
the ATV.

Speaker 15 (56:43):
Yeah, just because the guy couldn't die.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
From So it was like I just loved Cray Yeah
fair enough to Yeah, yeah, it does happen. Yeah, Johnny,
thank you very much for giving us a buzz. Really interesting,
particularly with your wife working for the IED.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
This person says, here you go, it's promoting and normalizing
undecleared casual cash jobs on national radio is likely a breach.
We're not on national radio. We're on newstalk c'd How
dare you accuse us of being on national radio? Is
he still a national radio Publicly admitting to such practices
could also expose individuals to investigation and prosecution by the IRD,

(57:20):
says this texter. So there you go, Tyler, you're in trouble.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Well, yeah, I already knew that. And this Texas says, guys,
I bet Johnny's wife quite happily takes a couple of
hundred cash out of his wallet to go shopping. AA. Yeah, potentially.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
The six is do you realize that tax pays for schools,
hospitals and roads. No, I had no idea that did that.
See where the money go go to Italy? The black
economy is so big that everyone else gets hammered with
very high taxes. Cheers David. Yeah, I mean god, look,
I'll tell you what I certainly do. My bit to
pay for hospitals and roads and schools.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
You do, and forty nine billion dollars a.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Huge amount of tax I had to pay on May seven.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
Yeah, it hurts though a bet. Look it's going I mean,
this whole thing Texas love is a little bit nonsense.
But when you pay as much text as you do,
Matt Heath, you know, then a couple of cash here
and there, anything wrong with it?

Speaker 5 (58:09):
Mate?

Speaker 3 (58:10):
It's nice starving.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
I thought I got you over the line now not
on So eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Tyler believes
a little cashi is okay, and he's been involved in
some I'm saying it's unfair on the people that are
doing it the right way because they get in, they
get you get You're coming around the side of people
that are doing it the right way, and you're not.
You're not contributing to society.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
What do you say, Oh, one hundred and eighty ten
eighty is the number to call headlines with railing coming up?

Speaker 1 (58:37):
You talk saavy headlines with blue bubble taxis.

Speaker 10 (58:41):
It's no trouble with a blue bubble Debity Police Commissioner JEVN.
Mick Skimming has resigned before he could be dismissed. Police
Minister Mark Mitchell says allegations of a very serious nature
recently came to light. It's separate to the investigation that
led to him being suspended since December. Police are asking

(59:01):
for any witnesses or videos from early yesterday morning in
Napier's or Nikaiwa after a fifteen year old died and
another was wounded. The Prime Minister says the Madi Development
Minister will work legislation to rescope the White Tonguey Tribunal
by next year. It's a major critic of parts of
the government's legislative agenda. A person's died after a crash

(59:24):
between a truck and a van on Levin State Highway
one Oxford Street this morning, with the road now open.
Inland Revenue was warning businesses with outstanding COVID small business
cash flow loans times running out for repayments. By late April,
eight hundred and fifty three million dollars was still owed.

(59:45):
Phil Giffitt on the Super Rugby Pacific Final to put
your money on see the full column at NSAID Herald Premium.
Now back to matt Ethan Tyner Adams.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Thank you very much. Ray Lean, and we're talking about
cash jobs. The ID want to come down hard on
cash jobs. That I've said that for a long time
and fair enough to I understand why they want to
come down on it. At the black market costs the
New Zealand economy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
You're walking about it, don't you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Well you know, I mean, I still think there's a
place for cash's in New Zealand. Well, this is what
I asked you during the headline. So it's a mate
who has skills and being a builder, and I've got
some work that needs to be done on the property
in the weekend. So he's off the clock, right and
I say, Jimmy, can you come around and help me

(01:00:30):
with I want to put up a retainable? Can you
come around and help me. I've got Paulo and Mike
coming around as well. Not yeah, well you know he
comes with Mike. So you know, because some and Mike
are going golfing after and so Paulo has to come along.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Paulo make a terrible miss in the bathroom anyway, can.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Yeah, He's just going to sit there and tell jugs.
That's what Paulo does. But anyway, so they come around.
It's on the weekend and I chucked them a bit
of cash just to say, hey, thanks boys for helping
me out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Is that really a textable event?

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
At that point it's off the clock.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Well, it definitely sounds like the lower order of offending. Absolutely,
But I've got another question for you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
What happens if I do work for someone and then
they do work for me. So let's say you're a
plumber and your friends an electrician and you need some
plumbing done, they need some electrical work done. Instead of
paying each other, you just go around to each other's
house and done it and do it. The ird can't
can't get involved in that? Can they work for work?
That's for it? Work for work can't be taxed, can it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Well, there's no cash involved.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
I think work for work is how society started. Yeah,
you know, I think. I think I think that's how
it all began. It's interesting. One of this Texas says,
I've done a cash US for forty years, approximately ten
thousand dollars per year. I will never stop, I will
never alter, says that text. I don't understand because for
me example, every center that I spend I have to
talk to my accountant about so if I paid someone cash,

(01:01:51):
that account will be like, well, where's the receipt, where's
the so? And aren't you if you're if you're a
trade running a business, don't doesn't all you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
But I mean, look, I don't want to give of
I'm scared.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Of my accountant. On my accountant, she's she's tough on me. Yeah,
and it wouldn't be worth my time trying to explain
to her what had happened because I've paid seventy five
bucks for someone to I don't know clip my toails.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
But it is an honestly system, isn't it. And you've
got a good accountant there. But at the end of
the day, this is what the problem the ID has.
And it's not just in New Zealanders. World Wide you
can't trace cash.

Speaker 13 (01:02:28):
It's very difficult.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Peter. You want to talk about cash jobs.

Speaker 7 (01:02:35):
Yeah, as you can hit by my accent, I'm from
I came from Africa and the one year and the
early two thousands I did some work for a fellow,
some major work inside his home and he paid me

(01:02:57):
a fifty thousand odd in rolled up newspaper.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
What do you mean?

Speaker 12 (01:03:04):
And roll up?

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
What do you mean? And rolled up newspaper. Please explain.

Speaker 7 (01:03:08):
He put the cash into all up newspaper and put
into a bag.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
See, I thought you were going to say that he
just somehow he had like the briefcase and the top
row was newspaper chopped up and you know the top
row was dollars spottom anyway, Yeah, okay, So he had
the money and rolled up newspaper. Okay, sorry, Petty continued.

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
He gave it to me and I went back home
with it. And I was so uncomfortable with what was
going on with this volume of cash, and I put
it into my bank account.

Speaker 9 (01:03:42):
No, no, lie.

Speaker 7 (01:03:44):
Three weeks later, the scorpions in Africa raided his home
and unbeknown to me, he was a drug dealer.

Speaker 9 (01:03:54):
Ah And.

Speaker 7 (01:03:58):
Within two weeks because it landed up in the newspaper
and there wasn't much TV in those days, but it
landed up. They arrived at my offic us because I
was I was a contractor, and they they took my books,
they took everything to audit my books. Fortunately, I took

(01:04:21):
that money and I put it in the bank.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:04:25):
Honestly, I don't know how guys can do a cash business.
And then I wonder why they're they're in an overdraft
or why they their business is ailing? It seems silly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Now with that, with that, you know that fifty thousand
dollars that you had got from the drug dealer. How
did you feel about that money knowing where it had
come from, even though it was in your bank? And
it sounds like you got away with it.

Speaker 7 (01:04:51):
They didn't want it back from yet was legit. They
confiscated his home, they confiscated everything of his every last thing.
You spent thirty years in prison, right, wow? And they
didn't ask for that money back?

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Was that the last? Was that the last cash you
ever did?

Speaker 7 (01:05:12):
Non cash?

Speaker 9 (01:05:15):
Your cash?

Speaker 17 (01:05:15):
But I just put it in the bank.

Speaker 7 (01:05:16):
It's just way easier.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
But like if you do a cash job, like so Hannah,
but when you're talking about a cashy, you know this
is this is a situation where you're not involved in
the ir D?

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Is that right? Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Yeah, So when it's in your bank, how does that work?
Because surely once and it's once it's in your bank,
then there's a there's a pretty heavy trail for it.

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
If you ever got audited, then it's just kind of
follow the money. Yeah, my nose is keen. They've given
me cash, I put it in my bank account. They
asked me the questions, and now I need to answer, right, okay, all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
Right, thank you very much, Peter. I mean, yeah, I
suppose if you're a repeat offender, then the ir D
may see some anomalies within your bank accounts and chase
you up and do an audit. But for most people,
I mean, but when I've sold second hand cars, I
don't think you pay any GST or TEXT on a
second hand car. Right, So the times that I've sold that,
I've got cash, taken that down to the bank, put

(01:06:17):
that into my bank account. At that point, the IID
should probably ask questions and say, hey, we just need
to confirm where did this cash come from. Then I
can say, hey, I sold my car, here's the receipt,
here's who I sold it to. They can follow that up,
but it's never happened.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Yeah, because arguably that could be the story for the
Kesh job that I sold a vehicle.

Speaker 4 (01:06:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
If I get the feeling with advancements and AI and
efficiencies that and you know, as we move more and
more to a cashless society, I think audits are going
to be much easier for the government to do. Yeah,
and I think more and more people will get pained.
Oh yeah, so you know, I think you've got seven years. Yep,
you try to be straight for seven years from now on. Okay,

(01:07:01):
I'm clean as Oh. One hundred and eighty ten eighty
is the number to call love to hear your thoughts.
Cash's and mates rates anything wrong with it? Is it
theft or is it just part and parcel of society? Yes,
as Rob said, if it's in the bank, then the
accountant treats it like an income, you know. And so
if you don't have an accountant and you're doing yourself,
then maybe you can push it past. But if you've
got an accountant involved in any of your situations that

(01:07:21):
you're going to go, they're not just going to not
notice some cats in your bank and you can't say
to them that's a cash he where did they go from? No,
Now you pay tax on that, and so then you're
paying tax on it, and so it becomes your problem
as the person that's done the cashi instead of the
person that's paid you. Person that's paid you in cash
gets an advantage as opposed to you. If you see
what I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
Saying, Yep, exactly. Oh, one hundred and eighteen eighty is
the number to cour it is eighteen to three.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
The issues that affect you, and a bit of fun
along the way. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
Talks'd be very good afternoon to you. We are talking
about cash jobs in New Zealand, the iyidea. You're pretty
keen too clam down on cash jobs and under Cashe's
they say gangs are involved drug dealers but also tradees.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Yeah, this isn't what we're talking about, and so I
get it. Get concused. People a getting confused. This TEXTA
says anyone can pay in cash, it's legal tender. Yeah, absolutely,
you can pay in cash. But that's not what you
mean by a cashi. No, you can pay in tax.
You can pay in cash if the ID is involved
in the whole situation. Yeah. So if you put a
cash job in the bank, you're ever clearing it and

(01:08:26):
paying tax on it. Yeah, exactly legitimate. So the actual
paying in cash is fine.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Yeah, it's it's getting paid in cash and they're not
putting it in the bank or not declaring it is
what the idea you have a problem with.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
I think most people that do cashies are already paying
a good amount of tax, and if they had to
pay tax on those cashi's, they probably wouldn't bother. The
cashi's happened because people let like me ask for them
in order to save money, because everyone in the trade
is so expensive, shears Alex. So he's saying that that
money would never exist.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Yeah, yeah, I mean if it's someone you don't know.
See that's where I draw the line. If it's a
mate and we can do the mate's rates, yep, Okay,
I've done that in the past, but it's a trade
that I didn't know to go up and say, hey,
can I get a discount for giving your cash? I
wouldn't ever say that, never say.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
That really well to me. Just you got folded up,
you know, three hundred in your pocket and you just
when you're shaking hands, you just slip it to them.
You might you might get actually something else if you
do that. You just hands back a pack of eight
class strokes.

Speaker 9 (01:09:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
No, no, no, I just wanted you to fix the tap.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Just had a problem with the pound boards.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
You can come and start with cashes. If the work
avoids a warranty hasn't done properly, it can become a
nightmare of insurance claim gets involved.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Yeah, absolutely, a lot of little problems there.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Mike, what's your thoughts about?

Speaker 12 (01:09:49):
Yeah, a little story quite a few years ago. My uncle,
he's a very staunch question and he was self employed
selling door to door. He did it right, and one
time someone decided that he'd my uncle and I think

(01:10:09):
it was frozen meat. Might have been home to a meat,
frozen meat, and my uncle had a dilemma. So, being
so honest and being Christian, he need to try and
work out how he is workout the TAXI had to
pay on that inland revenue.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
Yeah, so how would you go about that? You'd have
to find the value of the meat, and you're quite.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
Complex, you calculate the twelve point you end up.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
To taking out of your own money to buy it
on them.

Speaker 12 (01:10:40):
Yeah, yeah, No, I thought that was quite a quite
a cute story. But in terms of you know babysitters,
you know seventeen year old babysitters and you're sixteen or
seventy year old kids that are among the lawn and
they might make five or six hundred dollars a week.
I mean, I'm sorry, per year doing that, well, that's
just ridiculous. I mean, the Ellen revenue aren't going to

(01:11:02):
be chasing that because I know for a fact that
if you had to do your tax return at the
end of the year women count, it's going to you're
five hundred. So that just negainst the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
So I mean, what's the point, Well, what's the good?
What's the going rate?

Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Have you got kids at the moment? Mike, at the moment?
Do you have kids?

Speaker 5 (01:11:23):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
I don't because I just want Yeah, I know what
you mean, but I'm just wondering someone will know. On
nineteen nineteen, this's the side topic. How much is the
going rate to pay a babysitter at the moment? So
I haven't needed a babysitter for a while with my kids.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
I did see on the local Facebook page twenty bucks
an hour, and I looked at that. Originally I thought, oh,
cheap at that's up there, But I suppose that would
be it would be about right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
The problem with you me, I come home from the
restaurant after having a few drinks and I just start
throwing cash at them, going, hey, you seem like you've
done a good job. Next thing, the next morning I
find I pay them three out of bucks. Yes, yeah,
And I get you were saying, though, Mike, because I mean, really, honestly,
does the ID have a problem if you've got like
a fifteen year old's come around to look after your
kids and you hand them a fifty you know, or

(01:12:05):
sixty buck.

Speaker 5 (01:12:06):
No, No, there's no way.

Speaker 12 (01:12:08):
They don't have the money or the you know, they
just don't have the resources or the time to chase
the small player like that. And so I mean, so, yeah,
if your buddy comes over on a Saturday and he
puts an electrical socket, I mean, and you give him
box of beers, I mean, you know, I mean it
comes I guess it comes down to risk and reward.
I mean, are you going to dive on him and

(01:12:31):
then revenue? And see I gave him a box of beers,
so and then revenue. Technically he owes you two beers
from their box. I mean, but if it's if it's
a stranger, well, risk and reward. If that stranger could
dib on you and say and then revenue, you got
to grab those two beers mate because you But I
think it comes down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
To you neighbor looking over the neighbor looking over the
fence and sees that a job's been done, but electrical
job has been done and is the leading The guy
gets paid a dozen beers saying I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
But no.

Speaker 12 (01:13:06):
I had a friend he developed two new houses on
a It was on a section in Auckland, and the
drain layer turned rocked up and said, oh yeah, okay,
old dig out, which is ill law your drains thirty
thousand dollars cash please as a as a big discount
and bomb you know, I mean, but and and that's

(01:13:30):
what and then revenue really needs to be looking out for.
But in terms of the problem itself, I think the
way you could change this is the government makes the law,
makes the law that a developer or someone that is
asking a contractor to come along, you make it illegal

(01:13:51):
to offer cash for discounts, so that you know, have
you got a painter that wants to paint a house,
he needs to work, he hasn't got any work on
that week, and if the if the if, the house
owner says, oh no, give us a twenty percent discount
and I'll pay you a tax, I'll pay you cash.

Speaker 9 (01:14:07):
Well, I mean, what else.

Speaker 12 (01:14:09):
Can the contractor do? He just has to pocket the
cash and do the work because he needs the money.
And why would he want to pay text if he's
already given a twenty percent discount and you know, there
goes to GUCD, there goes part of the tax bill,
you know, so you're going to get rid of the temptation.
So it should be illegal to offer for big jobs,
maybe over a thousand dollars, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Yeah, right, I mean, it's definitely illegal to if your
intention is for neither party to pay tax on it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Yeah, I'm just thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
I mean, because I know this is slightly off topic,
but for a lot of trades and then someone might say, hey,
can I pay your cash? They'll still run it through
the books, but they still might benefit by getting that
money instantly rather than waiting fifteen days to get the invoice,
if you know what I mean. Because that's where a
lot of trades run into trouble, right, if they've got
people who owe them money and they don't get paid
on time and it takes ages to pay the invoice.

(01:15:03):
By being paid cash, it still gets run through the box,
but there is an incentive there to speak it up
because they get it instantly.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Yeah, right, when I was over shooting a documentary on
legalization of marijuana and Colorado when it first happened, and
at that point, because these medical rana salespeople and non
medical were making so much money, but their banks wouldn't
take the money. So these guys just had money absolutely everywhere.

(01:15:30):
But they also had the ID on their ass because
people were trying to crack down on them. So they
had an incredible amount of cash coming in and they
had to be exactly on point with every part of it.
And they were also expanding an incredible rate. So you know,
I was talking to the boss of this particular place
and he goes he was carrying suitcases of money to

(01:15:51):
play his builders. They were building the new facility to
grow more weed and the new shop, and he was
paying them just hundreds of thousands of dollars in briefcases,
which is a real problem for them. But they had
to get it exactly right with the tax plus because
they were taking the the business off the gangs, and
also people knew that they couldn't put their money in

(01:16:13):
the bank. They were real targets for armed robbery were
so everywhere I went in this organization there were guards
with AK forty seven, so it looked more dodgy than
an illegal outlet. So this guy was going to pay
this builder with his money in two big suitcases full
of cash, with two guys with AK forty seven's walking
beside him, just to be legit.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Yeah, what a crazy system, right, I've got to take
a break. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is
the number to call.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
It is seven to three, the issues that affect you,
and a bit of fun along the way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams afternoons used Talks'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
Very good afternoon to you. And we're talking about cash
jobs in New Zealand. Is there always going to be
a place for cash jobs, mates, rates, whatever you want
to call it. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. Some great techs have come through.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
I'd like some confirmation on this for mind. What I
understand that limit is two hundred dollars per year, after
which you need to declare it the giver and the
receiver that are libel. I have had some offer me
a discount if I paid cash. That's an interesting so
is it? Because I'm pretty sure there's some kind of
law and we should look into this. I'm pretty sure
if someone's fourteen years old and they're mowing the law
and there's some kind of dispensation where where you don't

(01:17:25):
have to get the ID involved and you can just
have from a fifty.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
There must be there must be a part of the
law that if you earn under a certain amount, you
know is that text? And as another caller set, if
you earn under five hundred bucks a year, are the
IID really going to come for you?

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
Well, the thing of the ID will get some of it.
So if you pay someone a hundred bucks to do
something and at least they'll get some of it when
they try and spend it in GST yeah, yeah, or
if they spent it on gas good points.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Oh wait, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number of four. We're going to carry this on after
three o'clock. Love to hear your thoughts on cash jobs
in New Zealand. Uses next.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
You're on New Home Are Insateful and Entertaining Talk. It's
Matty and Adam's Afternoons on news Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Sevvy very good afternoon to you. Welcome back into the program.
Six pass three. Great to have your company, and a
good discussion going on about cashes in New Zealand's the IID,
as you can imagine, it really wants to crack down
on cash's or cash jobs, part of the black market.
Every economy has it, but it is a costing according
to international studies, around forty seven fifty one billion dollars

(01:18:36):
per year. That's a lot of missing text.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
That's one of those great stats where some money we
don't know about is costing about this much.

Speaker 13 (01:18:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Yeah, you need to keep a record and declear, Like
this isn't talking about cash. So as the IOD says,
you need to keep a record and declear all your
income and sales, including any cash sales. If it's fine
to receive cash payments, so as long as you record
the sale and declare it as income earned in your
GST and income tax returns. So we're actually talking about
when someone pays you just in cash and it's off

(01:19:06):
the box. Yeah, off the box. I mean, I just
find that hard of it out. I mean, and there's
people are saying it might maybe off the books for
a while, but if it's if it's a huge amount
of work that can become a problem when it comes
to insurance claims, if there's a problem with it or warranties.
There are lots of different ways it can end up
on the box.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
Yeah, absolutely, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call.

Speaker 10 (01:19:29):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
We were also asking about three sholds when it comes
to Cashi's for the babysitter or the kid that mows
your lawn or those myriad of jobs that you might
want the neighborhood, you know, kid to do that is
putting up there their offer on a Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
And supplementary question for the audience on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty how much what's the going rate for
a babysitter at the moment? How much do they pay?
Because I've heard some big stories. I've heard people paying
twenty five bucks an hour for a babysitter.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
Someone came through before the news thirty bucks, forty bucks.
Someone was paying their babysitter per hour forty bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
That's good pay, that is good money, you know, and
under those circumstances, you wouldn't want to do what I
to do When I was babysitting, which was just go
to eat a whole lot of food out of the
fridge and then go to sleep on the couch.

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Do you want to do a good job for forty bucks?

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Yeah, yeah, it's good. You've want some cleaning on top
of that. Definitely want to make sure that the kids
are in bed on time. Kenny, you know about the threshold?

Speaker 5 (01:20:24):
Yes, indeed, I just caught the tail end of that
conversation and thought, well, yeah, I know a little bit
about this. So you can earn two thousand, three hundred
and forty dollars very unusual amount.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
Yeah, two three four.

Speaker 5 (01:20:38):
Oh. There is some conditions though. You've either got to
be fourteen years old or younger huh, or eighteen and
under if you're still a student.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Okay, so at a couple, yeah, yeah, well you can.

Speaker 5 (01:20:53):
You could presume you could be at a polytechnic as well.
Yeah yeah, but if you're a student or you're under
fourteen as a student, you need to be under eighteen. Yeah,
twenty three hundred and forty for babysitting, mowing lawns, odd jobs,
pit some pieces, and the tax man ain't going to
come and get you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Ye, that's pretty good. So twenty three hundred a year.

Speaker 5 (01:21:14):
Yeah, they change it every year. It goes up by
sort of an inflationary amount. I think it was one
thoy nine hundred and eighty the previous year, but you
know that's what it currently is. So you can send
your kids off babysitting, mowing lawns, delivering pamphlets, all those
sorts of things, and as long as it's sort of
under that threshold, no tax.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
I've just had a look, Kenny, and thank you for
you know, pointing us in this direction. But it turns
out I've just had a look at the legislation. If
you turned eighteen after one jan you've still got to
be at school, not a tertiary institution, which I suppose
makes sense. Yeah, but I mean that is fascinating. So
just reading out the legislation as you've told to us,

(01:21:55):
a child or young person can be any of these
age fourteen or younger as you said, age fifteen, sixteen,
or seventeen and still at school and turn eighteen on
or after the first of January, but still in school,
and you bang on.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
So if you get if you're gettingular power, sorry sorry, Kenny.
So if you're getting paid about twenty bucks an hour. Say,
let's just pull that number out. What that's one hundred
and twenty hours of work you can do a year
before the tax man gets involved. Anyways, Kenny, what we
you say?

Speaker 5 (01:22:23):
Well, I was going to say, there's another little sort
of area of the law, but this is slightly more gray.
If you're undertaking a hobby that's not a main form
of income or that you make a reasmal amount of
money from, that's also tax free. So let's say you're
crocheting some slippers and selling them to your neighbors and
your bridge club or something. So long as you're not

(01:22:46):
making too much and it's not a main form of income,
that's also tax free under legislation as a hobby. Right
up to what level, that's where it gets gray. They
won't tell you in black and white, right, They'll just
if they find you out, they will then look into
it and decide whether or not.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
I wonder how often the tax department goes under after
little Jimmy's you know, lawn mowing industry, when they come
down on a ton of bricks because he's done, you know,
he's made three thy five hundred dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
He's got a monopoly on half of Auckland, So they're
coming down on little Jimmy maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
And they confiscate his lego seats or whatever, you know,
the basket.

Speaker 5 (01:23:27):
At least we know that the kids can do a
few sort of odd jobs around the neighborhood and its
tax free.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
So yeah, I mean that's nice and it has to
be so. But it's funny with the hobby thing because
say you are trained sparky and then you get another job,
I don't know, so you become an accountant just to
grab that profession. Then you just say, look, now my
hobby is doing electronics. Yeah, you're going around the neighborhood

(01:23:54):
just getting making a little money from your hobby.

Speaker 10 (01:23:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
But look, if you're a spark here on account that
you're going to be invoicing people, you're clearly running a business.
You know. These are generally transactions where an invoice doesn't
change hands or receipt doesn't change hands, and often it's
where it's another key part of it is where that
expense is not tax deductible to the person paying it.

(01:24:18):
That's quite key too, right. Someone's where someone's claiming an expense,
you would expect that the person receiving that money, it's
going to be taxable too, So that's where you know
a babysitting is not a tax deductible expense. Getting your
house's lawns mode is not a tax deductible expense. So
I think that's where in Lanrevel would look closely at

(01:24:38):
it too.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
Yeah, makes sense. What about and this might be unfair
to put on you, Kenny, But if you're retired, you're
a retired sparky and you go and help him mate
out and he chucks you some cash on the side,
I suppose he would still look at that and say you.

Speaker 5 (01:24:51):
Can't do that, you would think, So another key would be,
is that sparky claiming you as an expense as a subcontractor?
For example, if he's whipping fifty bucks out of his
back pocket that he's paid GST and paid income tax
on and giving it to the retired sparky, then you think, okay,
maybe that's okay. Yeah, but you know, you'd have to

(01:25:14):
look at the dynamic of each transaction.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Get pretty interesting when you get into just the work
for work type situation where you know, you know a plumber,
you're a sparky. You do each other's jobs for each other,
because nothing has nothing really exists at that point.

Speaker 5 (01:25:29):
The contra economy is expected to be the same as
the cash economy from high Id's perspective. So it's fine
to do, and contras like that are common, but the
value of it should be declared in GST and income
tax paid on each side.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
Right, that would be That would be some quite honest
people that did that, though, wouldn't it, because you would
be quite hard to work out how many hours. But
then again, as soon as you have to buy some stuff,
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:25:54):
Yeah, And actually it's funny you mention that, because that's
another big of a part of the cash economy that
often isn't considered a lot of these traders are doing
these huge cash jobs, but they're still putting them a terror,
and the are the costs through their books. So not
only are they receiving cash income tax, they're all they're

(01:26:17):
then claiming the materials as tax deductible, So so it's
a double whammy for the for.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
The tax man. And not not to mention the air
points and the credit card spinning. Yeah, thanks thanks for that, Kenny.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
Yeah, that was very good. I mean, I mean, look,
it's good for the lawn mower, the law, male kids
out there on the babysitters. That's fantastic, but man, it
starts to get complex as you look at all the
other variables.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
I was just thinking about a vea. But it'll be
interested to see with what the what the idea, how
the ir D looks at this, right, So, you know,
the huge part of that's the primarily the biggest part.
If you're looking at how big this black market economy is, yeah,
a lot of that's got to be legal activities, right yep.
So it's got to be drug purchasing, right yep. And
so if you're always paying for drugs and cash, right,

(01:27:06):
surely the ir D, you know, would notice if someone
at a certain time always gets out the same amount
of cash that you need to buy the going rate
of the drugs they're buying.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
Right, Yeah, So it would be a telltale signs.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
So, say if the drugs are four hundred bucks, yep,
and someone's regularly getting out four hundred bucks from the ATM.
I mean, I don't know how much scope the ID
has to look into that kind of thing, but I
mean it were pretty easy to track that someone was
buying a bunch of stuff, wouldn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Well, when AI comes into it as well, they'll be
able to flag that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
Very just always getting out about because Kirk Bain famously
got out his drug habit was as big as the
amount of money he was allowed to get out of
this cash machine in any given day, which was like
at the time, about twelve hundred dollars.

Speaker 13 (01:27:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Yeah, oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. It is sixteen past three. Very good
afternoon to you, and we're talking about cash jobs in
New Zealand. The IID wants to come down hard on
the society. What's the black market society? And as you
mentioned before, met a big part of the black market

(01:28:13):
is money going through the gangs and also drug deals
as well. But they've highlighted cash's as part of the
problem as well.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
Yeah, and sometimes the banks get involved if they noticed
dodgy stuff going on. You had that experience John with
the bank thought something was up.

Speaker 17 (01:28:31):
Yeah, Hi, wasn't dodgy stuff. We're just in an area
in Auckland where there's a large immigrant population and we
sell large, large ticket items and we bank the cash.
I mean they come in and they say what's your
best deal for cash? And I just say, well, I
bank it, so that's that's the price.

Speaker 9 (01:28:47):
Yeah, And after a bit.

Speaker 17 (01:28:48):
The aim the bank seen email to us and said, hey,
you're banking too much cash. And I emailed back and said,
we'll shy bury it in my backyard. You know, it's
been handed across the cant I bank it and so
we sent off the cash crops which didn't get to
the right person, and we wake up when we when
to use the epost card didn't work. It was blocked

(01:29:11):
and that actually put a stop on our accounts. So
we got on the phone and we sorted it out.
But you know, it's what do you do? I mean,
we had a lady come in, she applied for finance,
she got turned down. She opened the purse and she
pulled out five thousand, five hundred cash and said, I'll
take it anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Wow, that's yeah. I mean, well, I mean you have you.
I mean, cash is legal tenders. So if someone wants
to buy something off with cash, that's that's there, that's
their decision. You have to take it, just like any
other payment. But that is interesting that the Z would
do that because sorry Z.

Speaker 17 (01:29:47):
Yeah, they put an actual stop on there. I mean,
I'll tell you we're a furniture business and we sell
large ticket items. And it is said, well, I think
you know, the black economy's growing substantially, and this isn't
a racial thing. These immigrants come from a country where
it's a common thing to deal in cash, right, and

(01:30:08):
can't break that cultural sort of tie back to it.
And I had that discussion. You said they was a
customer and you know, he was bartering away and he said,
you know, that's just part of my culture. And he
said that's why I've said to you, will you take cash?
And yeah, I think if you sort of drilled down
on it, I think, you know, there is a correlation
between the increase in the black economy and immigrants coming

(01:30:30):
from countries where you know, this is prevalent.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
We just if you're a number to go to the
country there, you'd be like, I'm using all the surfaces services.
So I would hope that they would that someone that
was coming to our country would go, well, it's great
to be here. I feel very privileged to be in
this country. I'm starting new life here. I should probably
pay my own way. You know, you'd think that would
be a basic.

Speaker 17 (01:30:54):
It's a nice thought, but what is the reality? Yeah,
come on, what is the reality?

Speaker 4 (01:31:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 17 (01:31:00):
You know, a customer said to me, you know, back
in India, they part pay for a house through the
bank and then the balance than cash to avoid the
stamp duty.

Speaker 4 (01:31:12):
Right, And I said, well, what happens?

Speaker 17 (01:31:14):
He said, oh, that just goes in the cycle. So
when you sell your house, you do the same and
this cash sort of floats around in this sort of
He sort of called it, you know, the dark economy
over there. And I don't know if that's correct or not,
but he was telling me the story, so it is.
You know, we pay our taxes, we enjoy the benefits

(01:31:34):
of medical and all those other things along roads, et cetera.
But people who do avoid paying taxes. Maybe that's something
you need to impress upon people. You know, if you
don't pay your taxes, you're not contributing to how their
country actually works.

Speaker 5 (01:31:48):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
Yeah, and it will eventually catch up on you if
you know, when you're trying to you know, if you
if you're going to sort of make a solid setup
of it will absolutely catch up on you. It must
be interesting, though, like people that expect you to haggle
for the price because because you're because in New Zealand,
generally speaking, the price on the item as the price,

(01:32:11):
and so someone comes in and says the price and
they'll go, oh, that is just an exaggerated price to
start the bargaining from a high point.

Speaker 17 (01:32:19):
No, No times have changed and any it's more so
a big ticket items. You know, the customer doesn't understand.
You know, fifteen percent off the top goes to the government.
There's your GST. Yeah, then you're got your wages, your power.

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
You know.

Speaker 17 (01:32:34):
I had to go and pick up that item in
a van, you know, road user chargers and so. But
they will they'll literally want you to sell it to
them for cost price if they could get away with it.
I've asked customers to leave the shop, right, I've just
said I'm not selling it to you. Go on the
road and I'll sell it to someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
Yeah, fair enough to John. But just on the cash thing,
because what you're doing, there's nothing illicit there. And it
goes back to the demonization of cash within New Zealand
society and I think that is a problem within itself, John,
is that cash is legal tender and we used to
be a society that dealt primarily in kesh. Now we don't,
and there's a lot of concerns out there on the

(01:33:13):
remover of cash from everyday society.

Speaker 17 (01:33:16):
Have a very quick one on the very first day
of lockdown. On that Wednesday, one of the nutrients shops
that very much supplies nutrients to the people who grow marijuana,
on that day they did one hundred and eighty thousand
dollars in cash sales.

Speaker 3 (01:33:33):
Wow, it's good trade.

Speaker 17 (01:33:34):
How would you you know you bank ten thousand and
you've got to notify the id.

Speaker 5 (01:33:41):
Woll.

Speaker 17 (01:33:42):
Yeah, it's a lot of cash to suddenly try and
get rid of. And you're talking with money laundering. So
people who do grab marijuana get enormous amounts of cash.
They've got to go and buy nutrients, lights, et cetera.
And they're paying cash. Of these shops have cash counting machines. Yeah,
but they get away with it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
Yeah, that's it, I mean, spot on, and it is
I mean, one hundred and eighty thousand dollars in one
day is a heak of a lot of money to
try and reason with the bank. But as you say,
there's levels of legality with that transaction. Isn't there, John,
that's the complex.

Speaker 4 (01:34:13):
But that's that's certain.

Speaker 17 (01:34:14):
And they're not growing tomatoes, you know, but tomatoes.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
But if you and how many people that are not
growing tomatoes have been taken down not by being caught
not growing tomatoes, but by dodgy tax dealing and too
much cash being floated around, you know that that that
cash becomes a huge problem in it and a pretty
good way to get caught. Yeah, John, Thanks, thanks you
for your call. Appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Fascinating. Just on the furniture side of things, clearly John
was selling brand new furniture. But when it comes to
the likes of trade me, I take it. Those guys
who are selling brand new furniture, this isn't secondhand. They've
got to pay tax up to a certain amount, don't
they selling cars? You can only sell so many secondhand
cars before you have to start paying tax on them.
I believe that's how.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
It works, when you know pay text on all of it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
No, No, I believe. Look, someone please see nine nine too.
If you're selling second nd vehicles, I believe you can
sell up to six per year before you have to
start paying text and then you have to declare yourself
as a as a car trader and then you become legitimate.
But I believe there's a threshold.

Speaker 5 (01:35:20):
There must be.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
Well I might look that up.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
Yeah, look it up. Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty
is the number to call. It is twenty six past
three back very surely you're on News Talks.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
AB Matt Heathan Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred
eighty ten eighty on News Talks V.

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
Very good afternoon to you. We're talking about cash's with
the New Zealand society, part of the black market and
part of the economy that the ID would like a
slice of or would like to crack down on. Anyway.
Keen to get your views though, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty. Where is the line between cash job mates, rates,
getting somebody to help you out? Love to get your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:35:59):
John, your experiences as an electrician.

Speaker 18 (01:36:03):
Yeah, you know, like when you've got to trade, everyone
wants you right and if you're their friend, if you're
a good friend, you're going to help them out that
There is no doubt, you know, Like my best mates
come around and say and look, I've done very few cashies,
and I just say look, tell you what, buy me
a bottle of whiskey, make me dinner and that'll do.

(01:36:28):
That's fine, you know. And if it's a big job,
it's like, oh, well, okay, you get the goods that
you get the parts at price whatever I pay for it,
and whatever you want to do for me. U see
fit When I was just struggling and apprentice, I used
to do a little bit. I don't do it now
because I'm tired at the end of the week. You know,
it's like, hell, I've worked, I've worked for type fifty hours.

Speaker 4 (01:36:51):
I don't want to do it.

Speaker 18 (01:36:52):
I don't want to do anymore. Some people are more
driven than others. But there was a time a few
years ago, and I guess it's still going on where
they would where the ird. You were checking accounts at
the electrical wholesalers and looking at what people bought versus
what was in and all this sort of thing. And
you know, I know some people who did very well

(01:37:13):
out of Cashe's because it was their way of making
money and supputting their family. And that's simply how it was.

Speaker 5 (01:37:19):
You know that.

Speaker 18 (01:37:22):
Most of them weren't greedy. You know, it was just
making a living. And this is a good way to
make a living as well as a normal job. With
a trade like ours, we have to certify every job,
so we have to put in what we call in
the s C or a CEC or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:37:40):
For every job.

Speaker 18 (01:37:41):
Now I would never go past that verification process. Some
guys might might, but I think that's more dangerous than
the than the IRD for me. So now I don't
know if it's going to get to that point. But
if I was the ID, that's where i'd be looking at,
looking at the certificates, the self the self certifying certificates

(01:38:03):
which are filed versus income, and you know that's that
should be easy enough to trace. I don't know, but
like if you're a if you're a builder, if you're
a paper or a plas or whatever, Gosh, it's so
easy to get.

Speaker 4 (01:38:20):
Away with it.

Speaker 18 (01:38:21):
And you know what, I've got some sympathy for those people,
not the greedy ones, but those who are just trying
to make a living. And as I said before, there's
a lot of people who ask you. There's always someone
knocking on your door, and it's difficult to say no
if you're a soft touch, and you know, because you
know they're your friends, and you just want to go yeah, okay,

(01:38:43):
you know, so to make it out more than it is,
I don't know. I think most people are probably like me,
just okay, I'll help you out, bro, you know, just
I'll help you out. So I'm not sure. I see
these figures banded about and they've made some I don't know,
some cosmic calculation that this is the economy. I don't
know how it works, you know, I don't know how

(01:39:04):
they get that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
Yeah, I don't know it does It does seem like
a huge number because because what they've done, the reson
the way they've got their number is they've compared it
with overseas. But I think New Zealand is a very
different place than a lot of other countries have compared
it internationally. I think it's harder to do dodgy stuff
in New Zealand than than then and a lot of
other other countries. Hey say, if you if you go

(01:39:28):
off and as an electrician and you do a job
John and you don't certify it and there's a fire
or there's a problem or something bad happens, is that
does that often come back to the electrician?

Speaker 18 (01:39:42):
Oh you you could possibly end up in court. You will,
you could possibly end up in jail. You will certainly
end up before the board, and the board could cancel
your license or put sanctions on you. You know, if
you're a good spark, that will never happen. And if
it's a good mate, and you say, look, bro, I'm
just not going to certify this because I don't want

(01:40:03):
this traced. It'll be fine, but you never know, you know,
it's like take insurance, right, do I take insurance or don't?

Speaker 9 (01:40:10):
Do I don't?

Speaker 18 (01:40:11):
And do you want your friend and kids to be safe?
And you know that you know well the year and
you know those people will do all the testing and
do all the things. They just might not sign the
piece of paper. And I don't know that that happens.
I don't know, but I'm trying to think about how
you might avoid being audited. But that only applies to

(01:40:31):
our trade. But if you're a mechanic or if you're
a builder, man, that's that's and you know we're talking
about trades on here. I think we're getting a bad
rap actually, because I think most of the deals are
the drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
Absolutely, you know, like the of this market that they
don't really know that you're just speculating about. I imagine
seeing as the entire drug market as a cashy market,
the entire business is casually that it's that it's going
to be a thing. I've just had a thought though.
So if you're doing it, do you have to pay
yourself a minimum wage? Because you could go to a mate. Look,

(01:41:07):
I'll do this job.

Speaker 5 (01:41:08):
You.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Um, I'm going to charge you two hundred bucks and
then you pay whatever it is to the tax and
it's all done. But you've just charged them ridiculously low
them out.

Speaker 13 (01:41:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
Yeah, anyway, thank you so much, John for your call.

Speaker 3 (01:41:19):
YEP, appreciate it. John, I have a good afternoon. Thanks
for giving us a buzz. Oh one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call headlines with railing
coming up. It's twenty six to four.

Speaker 10 (01:41:30):
You talk, said the headlines the blue bubble taxis it's
no trouble with a blue bubble suspend. A Deputy Police
Commissioner Jeven mcskimming has resigned. At the same time processes
were under way to dismiss him. Police Minister Mark Mitchell
says allegations had been made of a very serious nature
and a criminal investigations taking place why go Thor Police

(01:41:54):
have confirmed a child died yesterday when an all terrain
vehicle crashed on a private property in cut Apule. Two
other children are in a stable condition. Police are asking
for any witness, accounts or video after the death of
a Napier Boys High student early yesterday in ORNICAUA are
reminder to stay up to date with measles, vaccinations and

(01:42:17):
infected follows. Three sixty fairies worker visited multiple sites in
Auckland last weekend and worked on fairies on Monday. No
illness has been reported. The Taxpayer's Union and the Public
Service Association are both slamming Health New Zealand's two point
seven million dollar consultants spend on restructures, concern patients will

(01:42:39):
suffer as practices with forty six thousand enrolled switch funder.
You can read more at ens at Herald Premium. Now
back to Matt Eath and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
Thank you very much, Rayleen, and we're talking about cash
jobs in New Zealand. Great article in the New Zealand
Herald about the black market in New Zealand and you've
raised this in the Caller Raisers Matt, and you're quite right.
How they survey that it's costing US around forty seven
to fifty one billion. It's a black market. They don't
know what is changing hands.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
Get those stats on crimes. They're like, crimes we know
about and crimes we don't know about. Crimes we don't
know about are going through the roof and you're like, oh, okay,
how do you know about those? But what they've done
reading into it is they've done an equation on what
what the black market and other countries is and said, well,
it might be similar to that in New Zealand. But
that's getting stats they don't know about from another country.
And if flying to this, you know exactly because if

(01:43:31):
the ID and knew a lot about it, they'd get
in there and they would ping more people six cars
per year before you get flagged on the system. However,
the the course states if you buy with the intention
of selling, then you are and a trader and need
to register as such. Even then you are a trader
and has to REGIERUS such. Oh right, even if you

(01:43:53):
do less than six cars.

Speaker 3 (01:43:54):
Okay, so you're still technically should be paying texts if
you sell a second head car but you'll get flagged
if you're sell more than six per year according to
that text.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
Right, so you should pay. You have to pay text
on all of them.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
It sounds like that what they're t but they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
They don't notice you till you've done six.

Speaker 9 (01:44:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:11):
Right, that sounds dodgy. It sounds very and so if
you do more than six, then you're classed as a dealer.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
Yeah, yeah, but there's just cars, you know. I asked
the question about the wider second hand selling on trade me.
I imagined there's a limit on what you can sell
and trade me before you're classified as a trader. Well,
that's a good text.

Speaker 2 (01:44:29):
The text says, I literally built my entire house extension
for free, minus materials because I labor swapped my tiling
skills to a painter, a builder, a sparky, and a plumber.
Took me a few years, but it was worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:41):
Well, that is at the upper end of the scale
of a catch job.

Speaker 2 (01:44:44):
But yeah, well that's what I was talking about before,
because no cash has changed hands, but hours of work
have changed hands. Yeah, and so then you if you
did want to do that legitimately and to the tax,
you know, to the id like you should do because
we've got schools to pay for and hospitals and such. Yes,
we'll got to do our bit.

Speaker 4 (01:45:05):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:45:06):
Then you could just go someone tell me the problem
with this idea. You go, okay, now we're doing it,
but we're only paying each other one dollar an hour? Yeah,
would you have to pay the minimum wage?

Speaker 3 (01:45:15):
Yeah, it's a great question. Oh, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty, it's a very complete situation. AJ, you're in
the Hawk's bay and you do cashes all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
One second there you go, AJ, even a little problem
with their phones? Then yes, how are we?

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
How are we very good? So no issue with it
is effectively a mates rate situation. Or you do cashes
even broader than that.

Speaker 13 (01:45:41):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm doing a cashy for
a guy at the moment. He's got a driving school
and he's got a baby on the lay and so
anys upstairs done, and I've got the time, so I
go and do it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
And when you say cashy, so you're making money from it?

Speaker 13 (01:45:57):
Yeah, yeah, he'll give me, you know, one hundred bucks here,
a hundred bucks there, we're going to have a beer.
He'll buy me a beer I might leave a fifty
buck tip. And that's the other thing, Like you're giving
them a tip, aren't they making cash of you? But
yet they don't. They don't claim on that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:12):
But stairs, Yeah, what do you mean giving giving who
a tip?

Speaker 13 (01:46:17):
Like you go, you're going to have a beer somewhere,
we go to a ristaurant, and you lived in the
tip for the bartender or the weight or whoever that
goes in their pocket.

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
Yeah, I'll be interested. Actually, I don't know what the
situation on tip tax in New Zealand. I know in
the States, Trump's about to remove tax off tips because
they started taxing tips, right, so you know, if you've
got if you got, you know, one hundred bucks, then
a certain amount of that had to go to the
i D. But they're they're removing that. But I'm sure,
I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure in New Zealand, knowing

(01:46:48):
the way our text works, that the I D would
would assume that they'd get a get a portion of
the tip.

Speaker 13 (01:46:56):
I mean, we can't do cashless anyway, It's not going
to work. Not for the fact of cash's for the
fact of the cyclone Gabriel that we had a few
years ago the picture stations that's going to have vitrol.
If you had hash, they would let you use fuel.
So we're not going to go cash. It's not going

(01:47:16):
to work.

Speaker 4 (01:47:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
So how do you feel about doing a cash job,
because you know the argument is that taxes pay for
all the all the things that we need in our country.
Do you feel any any guilt for just taking cash
and not involving the I D No.

Speaker 13 (01:47:36):
Not really Like with cash, Like if you says be
there at eight o'ld, come at you know, called an eight,
smile on my face. I'll do a lot nicer job
than I would in my paid job, if that makes sense,
because I want.

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
To go back and do more work for them.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
Right, Yeah, But hen a minute, If you're getting paid
in cash, it is a paid job.

Speaker 13 (01:47:56):
Yeah, yes, or no you're not. Yeah, you're not paying
your tax on it, So you're making more off them
than you would if you put them through your company. Right,
although you're we might charge you at ninety five an hour,
I'd only see twenty six an hour, but I'm charging
at forty one an hour.

Speaker 2 (01:48:17):
Do you are you ever worried that the IOD might
come knocking and do you over?

Speaker 13 (01:48:24):
Nah? Sleep wasn't under a pillow, mate, They'll never know.

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
Okay, thank you very much for giving us a buzz
aj Like the world has massively changed because at one
point not so justn't passed. A lot of people listening
will remember when everything was cash or checks. Yep, checks, Yeah,
but cash primarily. You know, checks always went through the bank.
But so much of the economy would have been cashed

(01:48:49):
for a very long time, and the ird would have
been seeing a lot less of a tax take back
then than they do now because because one of the
things that keeps people legal is that it all has
to go through a bank now pretty much. Yeah, and
so there's there's a pretty easy trail of what you've
been up to.

Speaker 3 (01:49:05):
Well, we talked about not too long ago getting your
pay in cash and the WE envelope, and that's how
I first got my first pay was just cash and
a WE brand envelope along with a WE docket. So
my employer was clearly paying tax. But what happened after
that would be hard to track. I've got some information
here about tipping, So this is from the Restaurant Association.

(01:49:26):
They say the law is silence on tipping in New Zealand.
This leaves us with the responsibility of determining how tips
are handled as income. But they said, with this in mind,
we are inclined to take the perspective that tip payments
are considered to be a gift to the employee and
therefore taxable income. However, Inland, Revenue defines these types of

(01:49:46):
payments is non taxable if less than two hundred percent
two hundred dollars rather is received in a single tax year. Right,
so complicated. So it's a gift, but also that's a
taxable income unless it's under two hundred bucks per year.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
Right now. The thing is in New Zealand, it isn't
a as big a thing in the States. I mean,
you tap, you, you tip every time you do anything
in the States. Yeah, you know, it's basically a you'd
basically be frog marched out of a restaurant if you
didn't pay your tip.

Speaker 3 (01:50:16):
Absolutely, yah, frog marched out of the United States if
you didn't tip. Big thing over there. But the gift
is interesting because, as I understand it, in the US
and other countries, the tax on gifting, you can gift
a sizeable portion of money to somebody when your life
one off and not get text for it, ah, right,

(01:50:38):
Whereas it's very different here in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
That was the story and the short shank redemption, wasn't it.
That's trade's doing. Cashies also need to keep in mind
all the states go through the IRD for auditing of
assets versus income. I know a builder that had this
happened and had a size sizable. That's not a word.
So I'll say that again, sizeable deduction by iod from
the state that's from as a state. That's an interesting one.

Speaker 3 (01:51:00):
Oh one hundred and eighteen eighty is the number to call.
It is fourteen to four.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
Back very shortly, Matty Taylor with you as your afternoon
rolls on Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams Afternoons news talks.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
They'd be good afternoon. And we've been chatting about Cashi's
in New Zealand society. Will there always be a place
for Cash's or is the IRD right to clamp down
hard on them? And do we need to start taking
some responsibility as well?

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
This Texas says, guys, the thing that winds me up
about Cashi's is, on the one hand, everyone says, yeah,
Cashi's are good and stuff. The text man but at
the same time scream at the government for not putting
more money into health services. That's from Steve.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41):
Thank you for your text, Carl, you want to have
a chat about Yeah, get it mate. You want to
have a chat about how things work in Thailand.

Speaker 10 (01:51:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:51:50):
So I've been over Thailand quite a bit and I
had the odd foot message there and they sort of
sit there in the item like how do their tech
systems work? And I guess, looking at it from our
point of view in New Zealand, what they do over
there as they would say, you got a hair cell

(01:52:12):
on or something with three three hairdressers and a manager.
So what they do is they'd work out a figure
and that's your projected earnings that you're going to earn
for the year. And then what they do is they say,
once you've paid that tax off for that projected figure,
whatever you do for the rest of that financial year,
that then is now going into your pocket without paying

(01:52:34):
the tax on it. So effectively you could you could
effectively pay your tax from January. Say you're in a
yearly twelve month and January right through to August if
you work, if you work your butts off January through
to August and you've got someone coming and say, oh
you want to take cash and go oh no, now,
I'd rather just pay it through the box because anything

(01:52:56):
after you've paid your projected tax, now that's effectively classed
as a cash and going into your pocket. So it's
actually rewarding the worker. So using that in a situation
in New Zealand, say you've got a one man band
that an electrician. He might earn somewhere between eighty and
one hundred grand a year. So for a one man
being an electrician, if you said to him, okay, you're

(01:53:18):
projected tax bill for this year is thirty five thousand.
Once you've paid your thirty five thousand off, anything after
that that just goes in your pocket. So the government
has got what they want out of that electrician. He's
telling the guy coming to you for a cash job no,
and then effectively anything after that is going in his

(01:53:40):
pocket because he's not having to pay the tax on
it at the end of the year. So the faster
you pay your you're required tax amount of anything over
that is technically classed as legal cashy if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:53:53):
And how do they just decide what you know tax
you have to pay for each year. How do they
calculate how much?

Speaker 16 (01:53:59):
Well, they they just work like I said, if they
if they've got a hassle on the three three head
dresses in it, they've just worked out. Because everything in
Thailand is all cash, there's no if possibly you've got
a credit card, So they just say three headdresses. We
predict that you're going to make x amount, and this
is the number that you pay. Once you pay that

(01:54:20):
anything in the in your till that's going to your
to yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:54:23):
You know.

Speaker 16 (01:54:24):
Well, I think, you know, looking at it from a
different angle, that there solves every problem.

Speaker 2 (01:54:32):
Yeah, I'm just trying to think that through. It might
be interesting if you got into the situation where people
only wanted to give business to the people that are
on the other side and are only doing the cash jobs,
if you know what I mean. Like, so the people
have already paid off their tax for the year and
going into the cashing part of it, then they might
find it easy to get work, and then that might

(01:54:53):
take work away from the people that are doing the
legitimate part of it, if you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:54:56):
Yeah, exactly interesting situation though, cal Thank you very much
for your phone call.

Speaker 1 (01:55:00):
It is seven to four, the big stories, the big issues,
to the big trends and everything in between. Mad Heathen,
afternoons used talks.

Speaker 3 (01:55:10):
It be news talks, it be that is almost us
for Monday afternoon. A couple of texts to wrap this up. Guys,
what happens in a bad year and you don't make
the projected amount? Do you get the tax back? Good question?
And you want an accountant on you on your side?
It's all that out.

Speaker 2 (01:55:28):
Do you want an account from Thailand to thought that
went out?

Speaker 9 (01:55:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
Yeah, let's not unpack the taie account of text system.
We don't even understand our own exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:55:37):
Thank you very much. I mean that has been a
good discussion, very interesting. On Cash's I don't know where
we ended up at the end of that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:44):
Well, you know you still think Cash's all right? I say,
pay your taxes, people, Yeah, pay your taxes.

Speaker 3 (01:55:50):
And if the IID comes after me, I'm clean as
a whistle, clean as a whistle. Thank you very much
for today. Really enjoyed them, and I'm sure they will
and we'll do it all again tomorrow. Until then.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
We even might taste a keywing.

Speaker 3 (01:56:06):
See here tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:56:20):
Maddeth and Tyler Adams. For more from News Talk st B,
listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Full Show Podcast: 12 May 2025

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

All Episodes

Full Show Podcast: 12 May 2025

Dateline NBC