Full Show Podcast: 16 June 2025

On the Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons Full Show Podcast for the 16th of June, schools are feeling the pressure and are looking to solve their overcrowding issues while fielding increasing numbers of out of zone applications.

Then a great discussion prompted by Netflix's new documentary, Titan: The OceanGate Submersible Disaster - have you stood up to a boss that didn’t know what they were doing? Listen out for the call from someone who may or may not have worked at NASA, she would neither confirm nor deny. 

Get the Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons Podcast every weekday afternoon on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Helly you Great New Zealands. Welcome to Matt and Tyler
Full Show Podcast number one four six for Monday eighty
sixtheenths of jan twenty twenty five. June June. Is it
one four six?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (00:31):
I think it's one four six.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's Tevenie night. Jan. It's not. It might be one
four six, but it's not Jane. It's definitely. It's definitely June.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah, go back in time that much.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
But that's just because I was rocked to the core
by how good the show was today. Way for this
great call from Kira and we talked to her for
a long time, an American living in New Zealand that
had been through a very interesting situation with NASA and
this is all on the back out discussion about the
Ocean Gate the Titan Submersible Disasters documentary on Netflix. But

(01:04):
she took the disasters to space and it was a
very very good chat. Yeah, one of the best calls
with so she was incredible. We're going to get her
back as well.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
But you'll hear a when when you get to that,
and also great discussion about out of Zoner's School, some
controversial takes on that one. That was a good chat. Yeah,
absolutely all right, so download subscribe, give us a review
all that good stuff. You know, we love you.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Give them a taste of killing love the big stories,
the big issues, the big trends, and everything in between.
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talk said the.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Good afternoon to you. Welcome into the show on this Monday.
It is a short week for many people. We all
love that mup at Ikey on Friday, but great to
if your company is always get a map.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Get Ay, Tyler and all your great New Zealanders. We've
cobbled together a pretty fantastic three hours of radio for you.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
Certainly have no Just before we get to that, we
were talking about Sunday Roast last week and that went
off so many people wanted to chat about Sunday Roast
and I got a bit heated over pro or corn snips.
But you sent me a photo over the weekend for
Sunday Roast that you were doing, actually a lunchtime Sunday roast.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I always see this Sunday Roast at lunchtime? Do you
do it at night?

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Always at night?

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
We've always been lunch yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Sunday roast for tea, Oh wow, but I kind of
like the lunchtime roast.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah. So what do you think that we've got to
go the chicken. We have the chicken roast. You get
your potatoes in there, you got kumera, you got a
bit of pump You've got some Yorkshire puddings and and
a lentil roast.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Are they minted peas as well?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
These frozen peas. I just put a bit of peas
in there, just so there's some green. Otherwise it's all
brown and beigey kind of colors.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
So that was my initial thoughts. She's pretty brown, a.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Virtue signal with just boiling up some frozen peas at
the end.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Overall, probably a solid eight out of ten, except for
what I can't get over is the gravy. You've been
real stingy on the gravy and it is so thick,
that's like sludge.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
I'm a huge believer of just piling up that cornflower
into the fat and making the gravy as flack as possible.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Clearly looks like some mint.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I like it to be like a jelly.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
But you could have gone you could have is that
your plaid? I take it you could have been a
bit more generous. So to try and explain this, you've
got about two teaspoons of gravy on your piece of chicken.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
There none on the peas. Well, that's because my kids
got at the gravy bucket before I did. But you'll
notice here that I made my own mint sauce there,
and that is way too I just over minted. There
was too much mint in the mint sauce.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, you got too excited.
That's what happened here, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, other people that had Sunday roast over the weekend.
I only imagine that. Oh, hang on a minute, I've
got to think a textra. I don't know who they were.
Nine two, nine to two. They said, make your Yorkshire
puddings in the air fry, and never before. My son,
my son bears he made the Yorkshires, and they were
so fluffy and so tasty just by making them their

(04:01):
fry because you can ram it up to two hundred degrees. Well,
you're still roasting everything else at one eighty genius.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
They do look like supple Yorkshire plus soou flats well done.
Right on to today's show after three o'clock Have you
bought a crap property?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
So this is after a story. It's on the Herald now.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
It's a dilapidated in the cargo house and it is
a state So it was sold for one hundred and
fifty four thousand bucks. But the interesting part is that
there were so many people bidding for it, and most
of them, according to the agent, want to do up
the house. They don't want to bowl it. They actually
want to do this thing up.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah. Well, I love the idea of buying a rubbish
house and then doing it up myself, but I don't know.
I painted my house recently, one of my houses recently.
I shouldn't say that. Well, I painted my house recently.
That's out now and boy that was a lot of
hard work, replacing the weatherboards and stuff. But I loved it.
The feeling of satisfaction at the end of it was
just so good to have done something yourself. But there's

(04:59):
another situation with another house where I got people to
do it up and that didn'tel quite good. But it
was the first house was that. The other house was
an absolute rubbish house when I.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Bought it, and the one I've seen with the paint job,
that was a pretty good bank.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
No, that's another one.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Oh, that's another one here.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Anyway, that was what I did. The paint job was good.
That was a solid paint job on there. Anyway, Have
you bought a horribly run down house and done it
up that I want to hear the satisfaction of it.
Or have you bought what people might call the worst house,
lived in it and loved it? Yep, the oldest. Just
just just let it be, Just let it be.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
I've known some people that take years and years to
do a bit of diy. But anyway, that's after three o'clock.
After two o'clock. The documentary everybody is talking about it
launched on Netflix over the weekend. The title is Titan
the Ocean Gate Disaster. And we all remember that this
was this sub that went down to the Titanic and exploded.

(05:50):
But the documentary itself is incredibly compelling.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, it's the most what show in the country at
the moment. What are your thoughts on this whole Titan situation?
And look, I mean the wider Christian is how do
you deal with the boss who is going in the
wrong direction? Because that's what you get from it from
the Stockton Rush the CEO. Have you stood up to
a boss and how did that go? Have you taken
a stand and left a company because you thought what
was happening was not right? We'd love to hear from you.

(06:15):
Tony Nissan, the Ocean Gate head of engineering, said, I
thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you manage
a person like that who owns the company? A very
good question.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yeah that is after two o'clock, that's going to be
really interesting. But right now, let's have a chat about
growing concern over schools not having enough room to be
able to cope with growing demand and population growth. So
Auckland's biggest school, Funger Toto, has said over the weekend
they won't accept any more out of zone students from
next year as that role pressure has forced it to

(06:46):
close its books. But they're not the only ones are.
The principle of Mount Albert Grammar Patrick Drum says they're
in a similar position and building a new school or
schools in central Auckland must be a priority. But it's
a similar picture in christ Chuch Wellington. Many many of
the top schools are at capacity or over capacity already.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, so do we need to build in your small
schools before we allow any migration into the country. That
be an interesting question. But also to parents just need
to harden up and just to send their kids to
their local school. Is the problem that you have these
schools and fantastic schools like Mount Albert Grammar that which
is just a very well run school, Patrick Drum, the
principal's fantastic, whole thing's brilliant, but it is absolutely rammed.

(07:28):
They do not have space for any more people. So
do we just need parents to send their kids to
the local skill and not just be trying to shoehorn
their kids into these good skills, because you know, I'd
like to hear from people that did that and how
it turned out, Like, you know, did you send your
kids to an unfancy school and what happened? Was it
good or was it terrible? Is the problem just scared

(07:50):
parents as opposed to a lack of schools.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
Because when these top schools are over capacity, it kind
of defeats the purpose, right that if you are so
desperate to get them into these top schools.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
A part of that is that there's a bit.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
More hands on, hopefully for your kid, right, But when
they chock a block and over capacity and they've got
two many children, even if they are top of the
top of the pops in terms of school and education
and principles and teachers, you're still not going to get
that same hands on approach with your job.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, and there's no guarantee just because you move heaven
and Earth get your kids into the school that you
think is the perfect school, that they will turn out. Okay,
Sometimes it's the struggle that makes the kid.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
That's a good point.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah you know. I mean I went to an unfancied school.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yep, you went to a low socio No, what's the
system that they use this testyle?

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, Logan Park and Dunedin Grade school and look at you,
but not a fancied school.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah you know, and look how you turned out. Fantastic, terrible.
It's a disaster. Oh eight hundred eight ten eighty is
the number to call if your appearance. Have you been
butting your head up against the brick wall trying to
get your kid into your chosen school or does it
really matter?

Speaker 2 (08:53):
And can I just think Sharon. Sharon was the person
that suggested making the Yorkshire pods in the air fry.
Brilliant suggestion, Thank you Sharon, that worked at absolutely.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Good on your Sharon. It is fourteen past one, but
love to hear your thoughts. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is it to get your kid into a school
of your choosing or if you've just put them into
the local school in your zone, are you happy with that?

Speaker 6 (09:15):
Really?

Speaker 4 (09:15):
Tend to hear from you fourteen past one.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used
talks that'd be.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Very good afternoon seventeen past one. So Auckland's biggest school,
high School, won't accept out of zone students next year
as population growth and role pressure forces it to close
its books. This is of course throwing a Toto college.
And it's not alone. There are other top schools within Auckland,
christ Church jam Wellington that are over capacity and they're
now having to say they cannot accept any more out

(09:48):
of zone applications, even if their siblings go to the
same school. And that was traditionally a big thing wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
So why are you trying to send your kids to
out of zone schools? If you don't live in the zone,
then it's not your school. This text would disagree with
me on that everyone should be able to send their
kids to the good school. Where you live shouldn't come
into it. We all pay tax. Yeah, but how does
that work them in the school? You know, a bucket
can only take so much water if you've got it.
I mean, there's a point when some of these schools
are getting three and a half thousand people in them

(10:15):
and they're not built for that. You just can't keep
pumping more and more more kids in at some point, Exactly,
at some point it's got to break this, Texas said.
Some of the top CEOs went to public schools. The
teacher is what makes it. If your child can have
at least one who is both passionate and knowledgeable. Some
of the best teachers are at ordinary schools. Classroom management
as easier in a private school as they select their pupils. Yeah,
but I mean, I mean, private school's totally different, quis

(10:38):
and you can send your kids to a private school. Yeah,
that's not a zoning issue. Yeah, exactly, if you haven't
had the money.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
Oh e one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call love to hear your thoughts about whether
you are tried to get your kid into an outer
zone school, how did you go about that? Or if
they went to a school that wasn't traditionally popular, did
they succeed at that school despite it not being so
popular and people may have seen it as one of
the lower schools so to speak.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, as a parent, you really worry about your your
precious little children, don't you, And you really want them
to have the most amazing start, and you worry about
it constantly. And from the very first months of having
a child and going to daycare and talking to other parents,
they start talking about what school your kids are going
to get. It becomes ninety percent of the conversation we

(11:26):
have with other parents what schools your kid's going to
go to? But that's is that something we need to
fight as parents and just go look, we live in
the suburb. This is the school in the suburb, so
our kids should go to that school. It may be
a harder school, but maybe the toughness of that school
is what will make them Yeah, you know, and you
never know, as I was saying before that whether you
go out of your way to get them into another school,

(11:48):
whether that's going to be the making or breaking them,
you never can tell. But I'd like to hear from
did you go to a rough school and did it
make you or break you? Or did you just say
to your kids you're going to this local school, because
I think back in the day there was never a question.
You just went to the school.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I'm just thinking about my upbringing
in Nelson, and this is why, you know, it's difficult
because there wasn't such anything like a tough school in
Nelson at that point. But I didn't go to the
same school as my brothers, and my parents tried to
get me into it, but they were at capacity so
I couldn't go. And that had no bearing on how
I did as a kid. I didn't care that I
was at my older bro school. I just did not care.

(12:24):
But that's a big thing for.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Me, not crack heads to particular.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
I think he preferred I didn't go to the school.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Actually, now, Marris, you're gonna have a lot to say
on this, because if I remember rightly, you've got over
ten thousand kids, you've got.

Speaker 7 (12:37):
A handful, maybe a handful in a bit. Hey, look,
if you're living in an area, your kids should go
to what he was zoned there own? You shouldn't, you know?
Is it because people who live in a better zone,
they pay more money for the house. That's the zone
and it shouldn't be taken up by a bunch of
nobbed who live on a budget and want to go
somewhere slightly better. Go to where you are and support

(12:58):
your local community. Isn't that what I saw about? And
if you don't want that, say it like your peenies
and put them in private schoo because that's what we did.
You know, our kids went to a desold Keens school
that teached it a lot more nic So we just
then paid thirty four grand year to send us some comforts.
The results went through the roof and we're very very
happy as parents.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, of course you're lucky and that you had the
money to do that, But what do you say to
parents that can only afford a to live in one
area and they just want the best, absolutely best for
their kids, and they see, you know, just a few
few kilometers away and far superior school and they're going like,
this is unfair. It's all public schools. How come my
schools rubbish and the one down the road's.

Speaker 7 (13:36):
Great, it's not unfear. What you do is you get
off your chutney and you go down and help that
school out because they clearly need a hand. And the community,
if you're a good person, you get them behind your
school and you get helping that school, the school will improve.
But what happened everyone is instead of sitting there helping
out with the issue, they just I will go over
here because it's easy, and what it is, are just lazy.
They genuinely don't contribute to the community. And the problem

(13:57):
with society. Now, when I went to school, I had
no choice because you opted on a bus and you
went to school and you got where the bus dropped
you off because that was your zone and it didn't
matter whether it's good or bad. You went there. But
all your family got in and helped out at the
school with Garla D's and all that stuff, and your
raised funds and you did all that stuff, sold the
raffle tickets and that's community is and that's what it's

(14:18):
all about. But people don't do that now, they sit
there with their hand out, they don't contribute.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
It's a very very good point. If everyone just went
to the school in their area and worked on making
that school better rather than just upping sticks and running
off and jumping on a school that's perceived to be better,
then those schools would get better, wouldn't they. Arguably, you know,
even incrementally.

Speaker 7 (14:41):
You know, and I look at it. What makes the
school kids come and go? What makes the school as
the parents, and what makes the parents good as the teachers,
and all of a sudden, you have interaction, you get
better results. And the only reason we left a decold
Tend school because we didn't agree with the teacher and
they weren't going to change the teacher, so we just
changed the school. But quite inteedy so did about as

(15:01):
other parents. Now they've changed teachers and the school's going ahead.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, there you go. Thank you for your cal Morris
appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
And that was I mean, that's part of the reason
of the zone system, right, is that arguably, when you
have people at a community, whether they come from wealthy
background or not so wealthy background, that the kids go
to the school and there's that good mix that is
part of the reason why they have those zoning laws
in place.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I've got a friend who's very, very wealthy and had
the money to send his kids to private school, but
he was like, I just wanted to go to the
local school so they can see what New Zealand is like,
so they grow up experiencing New Zealand, not some rarefied
version of it. Yeah. I like that and as kids
have done very well.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Oh eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call zones? Did you care that your child
went to the school in your particular zone or did
you try and get out of zone?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
And how did you go with that?

Speaker 4 (15:51):
Most of the good schools with an auckland rat capacity
and they're saying, I say no more. So really can
you get your thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah? And my question is the problem just scared parents
as opposed to a lack of schools And did you
go to a rough school? And did it make you
or did it break you? Nigel, see, it's not your zone,
out of it your mongrel it is. Thanks for your text, ma.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
Cheers Nigel twenty three past one.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers. The mic Hosking Breakfast.

Speaker 8 (16:18):
Time is whether twenty seven thousand people more are on
a benefit in May. That once again is not a
good read for the economy. What's happening?

Speaker 2 (16:24):
No, that's not good.

Speaker 8 (16:25):
We're trying to get spinning under control, which gets inflation down,
gets interest rates down, gets economy growing.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
It's good the last, but the leaguecus as the unemployment.

Speaker 8 (16:32):
But that part fell apart. Your theory was you've got
your spending under control to a agree. Where that point
now stuck? Well, no, we run out of party. I
don't see where the economy is growing. That theory that
April May was a problem, but hang on the latter
part of twenty five will be fine.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Doesn't seem as real as it once did.

Speaker 8 (16:47):
Yeah, I mean we always knew unemployments the last, but
that has to come right after those first four bits.
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
a Vida News Talk z B.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Very good afternoon to you. Many Auckland schools are closing
their books to out of zone children because they are
at capacity or over capacity. But love to chat with
you about what you did with your child. Did you
put them into the school that your zone four. Was
there any issue with that? And did you go to
a rough school yourself? And how did that go for you?
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call, Stuart.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
Hey, thanks, I'm going to be a bit careful here.
Somebody might recognize my story. But I'll tell you something
very quickly. I bought the worst house possible to ensure
we were in zone, and I signed the contract without
my wife knowing, almost cause of divorce. Well we haven't looked.
I think the moral of the story is, you know,

(17:43):
we can all live in nice houses and nice areas,
but you've got a plan for kids, and if you haven't,
then you end up in stripe. You're sort of thinking
do I go to the local school? I mean, look
at Grayland for example. If ninety of the people who
lived in Grayland upon somebly sent their kids to the
local schools, imagine the change that would have on that

(18:04):
local school. It wouldn't be a rundown, terrible school anymore.
It would be quite as sophistigated, well funded, you know,
community based school. But you know that's where I don't know.
It's one of those hard decisions which is you spend
twenty eight thousand dollars on a private school, or you
try and get into zone at sort of eight or
nine hundred dollars a year.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's a tough one, isn't it, Stu? Because you could
go you don't when we call it Steu, do you.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
I don't mind it? Or you can call me or
what either like I don't take offense soon anything.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Okay, I'll call you Bob, no Stue. Because the thing is,
you know, we may have these beliefs and parents do
we go, oh, we need to make the school better,
But when it comes to our own individual kids, you know,
we don't want them to be the sacrificial lamb for
our beliefs. So so we do everything we can to
get them into a good school. But do you think
it's always the right course in that? You know, have

(18:53):
you seen examples of where the toughness of the school
and the struggle that kids went through has made.

Speaker 5 (18:58):
Them I would put it down, I think not necessarily
the toughness. I mean, you know, we went to a
public publicmary school, but then a private school, and I
decided to see my kids to a public secondary school
simply because I looked at the cost of the private schools.
I didn't actually see the value out of it. I

(19:20):
think the indoctrination of some ideological nonsense which goes on
in some public schools and certainly more to the extreme
levels in certain areas, that is what and always parents,
if we just kept control and just taught them the
simple basics and core maths, English and sciences, I think
that's more the fear than what the you know, the

(19:42):
local drug dealers kid might be going to the same school.
I think it's more to do the ideological nonsense. Yeah,
to my own opinion, at least the conversations I've had
put it that way.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, that's that's an interesting one. And it is odd
that people believe that about public schools because you think
the public schools should be the most vanilla in terms
of politics, and that it should just be well basically
no politics. You know, you could select a private school
and know what it stands for and you're paying for that.
But if you have to go to the school, it
shouldn't be really running any kind of indoctrination or any

(20:13):
kind of message.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
Really, it should be vanilla is vanilla, And the reality is,
you know a lot of the private schools are very
religious and most people were not. But you know, we
put up with apple and the and the godly stuff
that you do at private schools and nobody's worse off
for it. But I think it's it's the basics and

(20:35):
the morals and the respect and you know, giving them
managed education. But it would be great if more, if
there was less ideological nonsense and more people actually sending
their kids to the local school, because it would improve
the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I'm just thinking, Stuart, and this would happen a
lot that parents would would want to get their kids
into a good school, but that means taking their kids
away from their friends and their friends circle. That's got
to be detrimental a lot of the time. When you
take your kids out of the school, the primary school,
and you put them in a high school that their
friends don't go to, then that quite can quite often
go badly, can't it.

Speaker 9 (21:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (21:13):
It can. But conversely, you know, I was one of
those that got taken out of the local community and
sent off to a school that was, you know, a
forty minute bus ride away. You still make connections, and
it's the kids and the parents, and it's the combination
of everything, So yes and no. I mean, if you've
got too much of a snowplake or too much cotton

(21:35):
will around your building or your kids, of course they're
going to be upset. But the reality is financially and
I think from an educational perspective, parents have to stand
up and make the right call for their kids, but
also realize they can't just live in the great suburb
and then expect the state to take them from out
of zone just because they want to.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah. I think if you call Stuart, yeah, I mean,
it's all interesting and it's the sort of saying about
the ideas you have. But like say, for example, if
your kid starts getting bullied and it's just absolutely horrible
for their kid, and the school that you're in zone
for with your kid isn't safe for your kid, yeah,
then you know it'd take a very very strong parent
to just battle through that and not to try and

(22:18):
do what they could to get their kid into another school. Yeah.
I mean that's a very fair point.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to
call Love to hear your thoughts about out of zone schools.
Did you try and get your children into one? Why
was it important or did you keep them in the
zone that's in your community and how did it work out? Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
And I'd like to hear from someone who went to
a tough school, rough situation and they believe it was
the making of them.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Ye twenty seven to two.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
You talks'd be headlines.

Speaker 10 (22:52):
With blue bubble taxis it's no trouble with a blue bubble.
A samo and fashion designer has been fatally shot at
a protest in Utah. Arthur for Larsa Alou was killed
at an anti Trump demonstration yesterday. A man has been arrested,
local describing are Lou as an innocent bystander. Concern possible

(23:13):
government cuts to sick leave would bring more sick people
into the office. Employment expert Jared Harse as cutting the
ten days of statutory leave wouldn't be in anyone's best interests,
including employers. Three property owners in Auckland's Mission Bay and
Northcote have been fined more than forty thousand dollars for
breaching the Resource Management and Building Acts. Farmac has an

(23:37):
art Stettle fun two patches of menopausal treatment Estra dial
from December following public consultation. Another strong showing it this
year's Field Days, with more than one hundred and ten
thousand people stopping by over the four days. Economists take
key roles in next phase of COVID inquiry. Find out

(23:58):
more at ENZID Herald Premium are back to Matt Eathan
Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Thank you very much, Raylean, And we're talking about supposed
good schools in Auckland Bean at capacity. They've closed their
books to out of his own students. So that's the
like so of Vunger Toto and also mounts Albert Grammar.
They are also in a similar position and the same
in Wellington and christ Chot schools as well. Seventeen percent
of New Zealand high schools are over capacity.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
The Sex says, what the heck is a good school?
It's a loaded term. It's a very good point. What
is a good school? I guess that's a perception. You
can tell what is thought to be a good school
because a lot of people from out of zone are
trying to get into it. Yeah, so people speak with
their feet or their attempts to move their feet to it. Hey, Matt,
it sounds like you're trying to write a script to
a Hallmark movie. Yeah, it is a good point. I'm

(24:45):
just trying to describe the idea of you went to
a hard school and that's what made you. You stood
up to the bully, and for the rest of your
life you go. Yeah, it was tough, but I wouldn't
be the man I am today with that school. And
I kind of think about that with when I think
about my school, because when I came from a different
zone because I wanted to play basketball and this was
the best basketball school in my town. So I went
to it and just got some horrific hidings for the

(25:08):
first a couple of years because I didn't know anywhere,
none of none of the intermediate schools from my area
fed into that school. I had a couple of mates,
one of the one of them went on to become
the coach of the New Zealand cricket team.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
Anyway, well that's successful.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, but absolute hidings at that school for a couple
of years. But then I got my own back, and
then then I got the gift of the gap to
deal with these guys. He's basketball diaries, and it was.
It was horrible, it was, and I was scared to
go to school nearly every day. It made you the
man you are today. There, which could be called you Up,
could be a cautionary tale city to a pretty punishing school.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
I one hundred and eighty ten eighty Z numbered call Greg,
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 11 (25:50):
Thanks guys, Then Tyler, I was listening with interest your
previous call talking about the vanilla approach to state schools
and a example we've got we're finding a very new
state school, not vanilla at all. We've actually sold and

(26:12):
moved so that we can get into a different school zone.
Because the difference between the two schools, one that children
were previously in is the new model. One of the
girls has ninety three in their plants, the other one
who's ninety four, takes about forty five minutes in the
morning to call the role wo And the lack of

(26:37):
traditional education has been our absolute biggest concern. And when
we've compared this to another state school in a similar area,
just completely different and there seems to be a huge
amount of autonomy that the schools are allowed to make
changes within the curriculum and some of the political just

(27:05):
seem to have very very little control from central government,
which is a real concern for us, and so much
so that we decided to sell our house to move.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Right and so hand on a minute, you sold your
house and moved and how did the new school turn out?

Speaker 11 (27:22):
New school completely different, smaller classes one in the class
of twenty six under the class of twenty given the
curriculum would be more, I suppose classes a traditional curriculum,
certain subjects that we didn't agree with that we don't
think will be of much use to our children and

(27:42):
when they become to the international sussage and traveling, those
are optional. One important previous school, one of the curriculum
modules an hour a day, five days a week. We
didn't agree with that module. It's optional module one hour
a week in the new state school, so that's optional

(28:04):
and one school but one hour, one day a week compulsory.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's so interesting between between schools that are owned by
you know, the people. But Greg, how much did you
did it cost you to make this move? Was it?
Was it financially punishing?

Speaker 10 (28:20):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (28:20):
Yeah it was. I mean it's not a great housing market.
Would have rather sold than the peak or wait till
the next peak. But it's very costly. But it's just
one of those decisions you have to make in order
to It's amazing all you go private.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
It's amazing. What you'll if you love your kids, what
you'll do for them is you'll do anything for them.
I mean, that's that's basically the situation. Isn't it that
that people will financially ruin themselves. They will, they will
move their life, they will change anything if they're a
good parent. It sounds like you're a good parent.

Speaker 11 (28:49):
Career Well, we we're only one of twelve people we
know in the last twelve months and have moved within
the region to move away from that school that they
are at. It's a very modern school that would only
be six years old. All the latest technology, all the
latest buildings. It's the postcard school. I believe. I'm probably

(29:13):
created under the last government and a lot of the
curriculum that flows through it's very reflective in the last
government's thinking.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
I think so much for you called Greg hey boys,
all this big city talk, what about the choice in
a place like Gisbone, the rough co ed school or
the rough single sex school. Tough en up. But they
couldn't panic and suffer the dreaded collapse. Okay, I'm confusing that.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
When a little bit off pieced for that last part.
But yeah, you're right, I mean in the regions, I.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Think I think they might have been messed up by
either spell check or trying to do a voice to
text there. But thanks for your text mark.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Keep them coming through and can to hear from you
on our eight hundred eighty ten eighteen. Some very interesting
texts that have just come through. We'll get to those next.
It is eighteen to two.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
The Issues that affect You and a bit of fun
along the way. Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talk ZIB.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Very good afternoon to you, Robin. How are you hey.

Speaker 12 (30:10):
I've had three kids go through Glenfield College. It's a
fantastic school. When my old started there nine years ago,
I know people who sold houses to move to in
the zone for a so called better school because I
didn't want to send their kids to Glenfield, And we've
just had an amazing experience through their three kids. Is
when my old started there were four hundred and twenty

(30:33):
students at the high school. It was so small because
people just didn't want to send their kids there. I
don't know why.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Wow, and so so you won the lottery, really, didn't you?
By not having two do do any changes and upset
your life or try anything clever, and you're very happy
with education.

Speaker 12 (30:52):
Yeah, well, my three kids are all quite different, but
they've all had a great education. Like if they needed
extending in some subjects, they just do a year above
the year levels above and some subjects one of my
boys was the top academic student for his year. He
was extended in the subjects he needed extending hand like
during the year level above, but then he also got

(31:15):
learning support when he needed learning support.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Was there anything that they missed out on that you
can see from the supposedly Flasher school.

Speaker 12 (31:26):
No, I think they benefited from not going to the
Flasher schools. The boy that got larning support, for example,
I know students that they got Flasher schools that we've
denied learning support because they weren't dad enough, and he
got learning support even though he was still achieving academically.
And so many stories of his friends that got nothing

(31:48):
from other schools at all. So I think they benefited.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
And you've got one of your children who's now completing
a master's in biomedical engineering, is that right?

Speaker 12 (31:57):
Yes, that's my older Yes, fantastic. He's suddenly not been
held back by Tenfield at all. They've had a better
time at Glenfield think that they would have at the
other school.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, well, thank you so much that you go.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
That is brilliant to here.

Speaker 6 (32:13):
See.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
I mean as she said that she knew people that
had sold their homes to get out of his own,
but her kids absolutely excelled at Glenfield.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, I mean like Mount Roschool Grammar. I know a
lot of these people that have tried to move out
of that area. But I know some friends that have
sent their kids to Mount Roschool Grammar and others that
have moved away from Mount Rosill Grammar, and the kids
that we Demandment Roschool Grammar have done very well.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yep, very good, Dan. We'll get you in before we
get to play some messages. Get a very good and
what's your You went to a rough school?

Speaker 13 (32:46):
Yeah, I went to a school and Rhoda Rilla an
intermediate school. It's closed now. She she was pretty rugged.
But I think that that helped. You know what, I
don't help, but I think that it all starts at home,
like how to deal with people and some stuff. And yeah,
like I say, I went to Yeah, it was a

(33:07):
pretty rough school. And if you're a bit of a snowflake,
like you could have just folded, you know, and they
would have folded you like a t can you kind
of had to yeah, step up. And I think about
my kids now, and you know, like if we try
and wrap them up and not giving them the skills
to deal with people at school, and it just you
just set them up for failure.

Speaker 11 (33:28):
It's going to make it real hard for them.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Now, thank you so much for your call down. Yeah,
so it made you. A rough school, made you so
you have something to take into account. Exactly if you
make the run rays so smooth for your kids, then
do they become competent because eventually they're gonna they're going
to meet some tough circumstances in their life. Exactly worked
out for Dan.

Speaker 7 (33:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Coming up, we're gonna have a chet to Patrick Drum,
the headmaster of mounts Albert Grammar. He's keen for some
new schools in a city, christ Church, So that is
coming up very shortly eleven to two.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I'd be Auckland, wouldn't it.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
What did I say, christ Church? Yeah, yeah, of course Auckland.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, you might care about Christ which as well, but
it is an Auckland school.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Matties Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty. It's matt Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons News
Talks B.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
News Talks B. So what can be done about at
capacity high schools? Joining us now is Patrick Drumm. He's
the headmaster at Mount Albert Grammar School. Patrick, very good
afternoon to you.

Speaker 6 (34:25):
Yeah, good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
How are you very good? What is causing the overcrowding
of Auckland schools?

Speaker 6 (34:33):
Well, I think we're just a sort of function of
other challenges around infrastructure, aren't we in a rapidly growing
city and you know, you blink, drive around and blink,
and then suddenly there's another state house gone or another
house moved off, and three or four or five or
six other dwellings and that on that property within our

(34:54):
school zone. And they bring in families and those young
people need to go to school. So it's just simply
a growth is rapid and we're just having to cope
with that.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
How many kids that Mount Albert Grammar and how many
would you be comfortable with?

Speaker 6 (35:10):
There are two different different questions, aren't there. But I
mean we're in excess of three thousand, six hundred students
now and we've been growing and so in nine years
as headmaster here and we've grown a thousand students from
that time. So and that includes the COVID period where
things slowed down, But so we're looking at sort of
one hundred, one hundred and fifty students a year. And the

(35:34):
question about being comfortable is actually irrelevant because they're in
our zone. We've got to take students there that there's
no real choice about it. That's pretty clear under the
Education Act.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
There are some advantages in having a big school. I
think Mount Amragram is a fantastic school. I've got two
kids been there and everything they could want to do
is available to them, clubs, sports, whatever they want. That's
basically a city and whoever you are you can find
your think. So there is an advantage in being a
huge school, Petrick, I.

Speaker 6 (36:05):
Think there is. I mean, these other economies of scale
financially well, and you're exactly right about the ability to
embrace diversity within our Auckland community. It's reflected in the
Mount Albert Grammar community as well. But there is a
place for everyone there's something for everyone at the school,
so you know, there are some big advantages. You might

(36:26):
be not having the greatest day with your peer group,
you know, at a particular lunchtime, but there's another four
or five hundred students in your year level you can
go and kick a ball around with. So you know,
those sort of things, you know, are pretty important for
young people to say work their way through. And I
think it just gives a huge opportunity for people to
rub shoulders with lots of different types of people, and

(36:48):
I think it's a great preparation for the next step.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Do you take it as a compliment that so many
people want to come to your school from matazone?

Speaker 6 (36:56):
We always want to be I think hit masters always
want to be running a school which you know has
garners confidence within your own community, certainly. But I suppose
the bigger question there and it's the one that probably
can't unpack and five and it's is why parents say
from outside our zone not choosing their local schools. And
I think that's a really serious question about around the

(37:17):
type of school and we provided in different types of schools,
curriculum assessment and those sort of things. You know, it's
a big, big issue.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
How many applications out his own applications did you get
for next year? Not an exact number, but are we
talking in the hundreds?

Speaker 6 (37:30):
Yeah, so for this year because there still things are
still open at the moment for twenty twenty six. But
we had year we had six hundred year nine applications
we didn't accept last year, Oh my god, accepted. We
accepted six hundred and seventy. So you know, you actually
can almost double your school role overnight when you look
at that. And that's even with us sending a pretty

(37:51):
clear message that we would have a very limited, if
any out of his own enrollment this year, but we
still had I think it's shown that the concern that
many families have about this important process, which is finding
a school for your son and your daughter.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
What are the Ministry of Educationation's infrastructure plans to help
meet your demand, demand and sort of demand in general.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Yeah, well, we've been sort of advocating quite strongly. And
it's a group of schools around this area. Because if
I go to the periphery of our enrollment zone, I mean,
we've got Auckland Grammar, EPSOM Girls Aerolic capacity, you've got
your private schools pretty close on that boundary as well.
Western Springs at capacity. Evandale College is moving up in

(38:34):
terms of capacity as well, so it's quite obviously it
needs to be ExtraVision within the central area. At the moment,
we're just sort of dropping buildings onto existing site to
cope with. In other words, we opened a building for
six hundred students last year and that's a significant building.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
It certainly is. Patrick, We're out of time, wish we
had more time, but thank you very much for your
time this afternoon and all the best. That is Patrick Drum,
principle of Mount Albert Grammar.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
A fantastic school. Absolutely right.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Coming up after the news, we want to talk about
a documentary that every everybody is discussing news.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Next talking with you all afternoon, it's Matt Heathen, Taylor
Adams Afternoons News Talks. It'd be.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Very good afternoon to you. Welcome back into the show
on this Monday afternoon. Hope you're doing fantastic wherever you're
listening in the country. Great day of your company. As always,
this is going to be a very very interesting chat.
So Netflix has released a new documentary on the Titan
submersible disaster. So titan the Ocean Gate disaster is what
it's called. At premieres over the weekend, and it includes

(39:43):
an interview with Kiwi deep sea exploration expert Rob McCallum,
who had raised concerns about the sub But it is
a compelling documentary.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
I mean, we all remember at the time that the
horror when we first heard about it, and the countdown
as they were supposed to be running out of oxygen
or potentially were. But it is a very very very
shocking tale when you listen to it, and look, there's
only two ways you know, there's no two ways about it.
Stockton Rush, the CEO of Oceangate, made some terrible decisions

(40:14):
and the suggestion is this was a disaster that was
just only a matter of time until it til it happens.
Let's just have a listen to a bit of a
rundown of the show.

Speaker 14 (40:24):
Stockton saw an opportunity to three start tourist hysits to Titanic.
There was no way of knowing where titled It's going
to fail, but it was a mathematical certainty that it
would failed.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and that
it would work.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
He wanted to fare to fuel as eagle beam. I
have no desire to die.

Speaker 15 (40:45):
I understand this kind of risk that Stockton was a
borderline psychopath.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
How do you manage the person like that who owns
the company? Yes, one of the seeds things I will
ever do.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Nobody spoke up. He would ruin somebody's.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
Leaves stocked and said, Bonnie is going to be our
next lead pilot.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Are you nuts?

Speaker 10 (41:05):
I'm an accountant.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
No, one's not under my wife period.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
That gives me gooseyes.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
And people did die under his own watch, including him,
but also sadly a teenage boy that was taken in
because he cut corners. It wasn't registered in any place,
it wasn't tested by any body that would look into
testing whether it was seaworthy or under sea worthy. And
like that that line there from Tony Neeson, the Ocean

(41:33):
gatehead of engineering, I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath.
How do you manage a person like that who owns
the company and you know you've got the kiwi Rob
McCallen saying, look, there was no way of knowing when
Titan was going to fail, but it was a mathematical
certainty that it would fail, and so there was this
there was this dream I've been able to make money

(41:55):
by charging people a lot of money to go down
and visit the Titanic, you know, look under, open up
the ocean to to tourism. But the dream never met
the reality. And you know, the way they were making
the submersible was just it was failing tests, making horrific noises,
creaking noises under the water. But they just kept going

(42:16):
and it became a cult like situation within the team
that were doing it, and anyone that called him out
stopped and rush out basically lost lost their job. I mean,
there's the sad, sad case. If you've seen the documentary
of David Lockridge, who was the Scottish whistleblower, former director
of Marine Operations, and when he called it out, not
only did they fire him there then and then he

(42:38):
tried to run a whistle blow sitch on there just
because he cared about saving some lives and he was
sure that things were going to go bad. You know,
Ocean Gates sued him, yeah, to shut him up.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Unreal the number of people, as you say, in high
positions that tried to speak up and were pushed aside,
But certainly there were people in the company that you
could argue were enighblers. They saw something was wrong, they
had concerns because of the personality Stockton Rush was and
as you mentioned, Tony Nielsen, one of the directors said
he was a borderline psychopath. They might have spoken up.

(43:10):
Then he said, no, we're going to do this and
I don't care what you think, and at that point
they didn't say anymore.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, well, Waite hundred and eighty ten eighty, what are
your thoughts on the whole tide in situation? And how
do you deal with the boss who is going in
the wrong direction in this case a very powerful and
charismatic CEO. Have you stood up to the boss and
how did it go? And have you taken a stand
and left a company because you thought it was what
was happening wasn't right, because a bunch of people did.

(43:35):
And I'll tell you what when you watch the documentary,
the people that did stand up and at the time,
it's a great personal cost and you know, incredible stress
to themselves. Yeah, they ended up looking very good in
the documentary.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Well they did.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
And the ones standing around and celebrating and clapping and
popping champagne over the later dives probably don't look so good.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
No, But the engineer you mentioned there, David Lockred, who's
the Scottish engineer. I thought he was incredibly brave. And
there was audio of him talking to Stopped and Rush
and meeting saying that this is going to implode. You
cannot go down in the sub you were going to die,
and Stockton basically said, I'm not going to die, and
I don't care what you think. One of us is
going to leave this company and it's not going to

(44:20):
be me. But just the fact that he stood up
to this particular guy stocked in rash you owned the company,
he had that vision incredibly brave thing to do.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, I mean, but you know, also having said that,
if you know people are going to be going down
in this thing and you know that it doesn't have
what it takes and to hold up, you know, and if,
as Rob McCallum said, there was no way of knowing
when Titan was going to fail, but if it was
a mathematical certainty that it would fail, I mean, surely,
if you know that, you have to do something. And

(44:53):
in the case of David Lockridge, he stood up stood
down and then went to court, but he just couldn't
afford him and his wife couldn't afford to keep going
to court on it, and they just had to withdraw
the charges because you know, they just they just were
going to destroy their entire life trying to stop it.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Yeah, but looking at the when they measured the stress
levels on the hull and you could see that graph
and when it was pinging every time it cracked, And
I think that was the point that David Lockridge is
in Engineers Say, is I can no longer be a
part of that but incredibly compelling documentary, but really keen
to hear from you.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
This Texas says, I come from mountain biking, and if
there's one thing I know about carbon fiber, it's not
it's not if it's going to break its wind and
it goes without warning. Yeah, I mean that's what a
lot of people people were saying, because because the reason
why they went with the carbon fiber was because of
the weight of the titanium was too heavy and they

(45:48):
needed a bigger boat to take it out, to take
the submersible out to drop people down to see the Titanic,
and so they were looking at a way to have
a lighter submersive submersible, and that was the dream. We
can do this. But at some point it became clear
that what their idea did not match reality. And it
kind of reminded me this this guy, you know, Stocked

(46:08):
and Rush, he really wanted to be the Elon Musk
of the ocean. Yeah, but it's similar to Elizabeth Holmes
wanting to be the Steve Jobs of you know, medicine
of diagnostics. Sometimes they just imagine who they are and
who they want to be, but their idea is not
up to scratch and it just needed to be tried

(46:29):
and then realized it was going to be fail and
next Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've seen the documentary,
what did you think? And also, is there ever been
a point that you've had to stand up to a
manager you saw something going wrong and you felt no
choice but to stand up and say something. Love to
hear from you. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. It's fourteen parts two.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Your home of afternoon Talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons call,
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty, Youth Talk said be.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Very good afternoon to you. We're talking about a documentary
that launched on Netflix over the weekend and it is
very quickly shot to number one by a country mile.
It's called Titan, the Ocean Gate disaster and an examined
CEO Stockton's rush quest to become the next billionaire innovator,
and of course the doomed underwater endeavor that called into
question the price of ambition in the depths of the ocean.

(47:23):
But we've also asked the question because what became apparent
during the documentary is the number of people who tried
to speak up on what was going wrong in the
concern over this particular submersible. Have you ever stood up
to a manager and how did you do that? Oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Mike says, I stood up to a boss once when
I was pumping gas for BP. I said, why is
the manager at the BP down the road paying staff
two dollars more an hour? And he told me to
shut up in mine own business. Well, it's not quite
the same safety issue, no, but you know, if it's wrong,
it's wrong.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
Yeah, exactly, you know, but you do risk, you do
risk a.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Bit standing up to management. But in this case the
CEO of the company, who by all accounts was a
bit of a psychopath.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Yeah, and I think I think it's fair to say
it probably is a bit of a key we trait
that we don't like to speak up so much that
we tend to like to keep our heads down rather
than be the person who puts the head above the parapet.
But if you have been that person and you decided
to speak up, love to hear from you. On eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Plenty of texts coming through
on nine two nine two.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
This sounds like a horror movie, a plot with the psychopathic,
sadistic murderer sending people to deep water implosion death. This
topic makes me mentally ill. One thing, one thing that
you would would say about Stockton Rush is he I mean,
he died in the disaster, and so he was willing
to put his life where his beliefs were. And in

(48:46):
fact he was very keen to pilot every trip to
the point where he was trying to pilot when David Lockwrich,
who was supposed to be piloting the submersible, you know,
instead of him going down. He had to argue to
be on there, so he was willing to risk his
own life, so he believed in it completely. As it
turned out, it was a fantasy, but he still still

(49:09):
believed it.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
If it was just him that was in that submersible
when it imploded, I think people would look at it
very differently. I soonaly would massively. It is only the
fact that they were paying customers hopoard at the time,
because there has been many people throughout history who many
would have labeled mad for what they were doing and
put their life on the line. But the fact that
other people were involved is where it becomes disturbing.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Stockton Rush's father, Stockton Rush the Second was behind the
construction of a retreat near Tiaraw. Wow. That's very interesting
because because Stockton Rush is the CEO of the whole
Ocean Gate thing, is a very very blue blooded individual
on both sides. He had ancestors at the signing of
the you know, the the what is it, the signing

(49:58):
of the Statute of Independence, whatever it was.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
Yeah, extra pressure there, quick text and then we'll get
to some of your phone calls.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
I work for a supermarket company. My job was to
help build markets and fixed problems. I was told not
to help an owner because my boss didn't like this owner.
She was struggling and overwhelmed. My boss wanted her to
quit and sell the shop. She dropped dead in the
shop and my boss said problem solved. I had a breakdown,
walked out to the company and had to retrain.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
They just don't care. Wow, interesting, welcome to show grig.

Speaker 16 (50:28):
Yeah, yeah, just I very well what you were saying there.
I contracted to a Manger carrier coming in the nineteen
nineties when I came back from overseas. I only lasted
three months and they terminated the contract. That when I
tried to take things further, like I went to the
homes program and feargo than others because it was a
very much a Master seven relationship. I got pasted on

(50:51):
the back at the pub by a lot of the
guys and they said, were right behind you. But when
it came to the crunch, there was no one to
be seen. There's only a few people were staunched. Most
of them look the other way and said, I don't
bid me into it. Trees are great. When I've had
two jokes about they're all contenders from the middleweight crown.

(51:13):
But when it comes to a trunch like a company
as that recently, I had a few issues and there's
a couple of guys there. All three of them were
really staunched, but others put their heads down because people
are frightened.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (51:28):
But the point I'm making, and I'll stand down in
the pub and say we'll do this, and we'll do that,
and got on there and we're right there around the
water corner that when it's time to draw a line
in the sand, you don't see them aithery suddenly say
I don't bring me into it, don't bring me into
your problems.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
And again, Greg, it is you know, it does take
he give a lot of courage in some of those
situations because and I'm not defending the fellows who didn't
come to beat you up in the end, but people
are thinking more about themselves. They're thinking about their families
and their mortgages and probably those around them. Rather than
being selfish, They're thinking, how do I provide my family
if this all goes belly up and they tarnished my

(52:08):
reputation and I can't get another job.

Speaker 16 (52:11):
Yeah, yeah, I understand that too, you know, because this
is the last episode I had. I actually caught up
three of the guys on Saturday morning for coffee and
they are really great storm spokes. But one of the
other guys who didn't want to bake me up. When
it came to the Crunch Center, I was worried. I
had a mortgage and my head worries, and I understand

(52:31):
that it's very much an imbalanced when you're up against
the big court for it and you're on your own
and you know it could be to get the DCM
if you don't toe the party line.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Basically, do you think you know, you say Greg, you
know keys up for a few beers will stick up.
Do you think it'd be a different a different situation
if like in this ocean Gate situation where it's life
and death, where with you know these people you're talking
about that you know, you discussed it in the pub
if it was people were going to die if they

(53:03):
didn't didn't speak up, because those stakes are a bit higher,
aren't they.

Speaker 16 (53:07):
Yeah, yeah, you would certainly hope, well, you would think
they'd do the right thing, and we will like to
think we would do But you just don't even know.
People are funny and you know I side, the same
people stand around the tub and support capital punishments and say, yeah,
I'd do it, I'd carry it out and off and
save the Well, yeah, I'm sure you would. This sea
of you got put in the situation, how much you

(53:30):
could do.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
I see some parallels with this situation Greg to Pike River,
and in that circumstances we now know there were employees
and managers who were trying to speak up when they
were putting plastic bags on the medthane sensors and all
of these shortcuts they were trying to make because the
company was losing money. And then, of course we know
what happened. But that again you've got employees and managers

(53:53):
trying to speak up and being threatened that if you
try and speak up, you're going to lose your job
and you'll never work in this town. Again. Clearly this
is something that repeats itself in many industries.

Speaker 16 (54:08):
Oh yeah, well, I mean, I from what I understand
to source about Pipe River, even some of the workers
were doing things and no mean to dis first the
memory of anyone who died there all pasters any black
marks on them. But the company offering bonuses and that
makes people you know you can they are what the

(54:29):
hell you know? Be a good bonus and the management
of promising bonuses and guys will turn a blind I
assume and nature we've all been guilty of it.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, thank of you. Cool Greg, This is an interesting text.
You have just respoiled the Titan doco. Now for all
the people who haven't had the privilege to watch it yet,
I think how many people in the world don't know
what happened with the Titan thing.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
It's not it's like something This is not fiction.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
It's like it's like someone going to the Titanic movie
and then coming out and going, it sunk, sink, It's
sunk at the end. So spoiler Yeah, come on, I
didn't know that it sunk. I think the fact that
the Titan and loaded, it's pretty well it was only
the biggest story of twenty twenty three, or one of

(55:17):
the biggest stories of twenty twenty three. I mean, why
are you watching that documentary if you don't know anything
about it?

Speaker 4 (55:22):
If you were in an Antarctica during that whole saga,
apologize to those people, But for everybody else, you know
what happened. It imploded?

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Come on, come on, MIBs. You can't have a spoiler
on it. That's a good text. Veryay, thank you, sorry
for spoiling what happened with the Ocean Gate Titan submissible?

Speaker 4 (55:42):
Yeah, Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number
to call if you've ever stood up to a boss
rom manager. Love to hear from you how hard was
it and what was going on? And also if you've
seen this documentary, love to get your thoughts. It's gone
to number one on Netflix by a country miles, so
many people chatting about it. Can to hear from you.
It is twenty six past two.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons, call OH eighty on
news talk ZV.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Very good afternoon. We're talking about a new documentary that
has just been released about the Titan disaster. It's on Netflix,
shot to number one by a country mile. Many many
people are talking about it. Incredibly compelling and disturbing documentary.
The number of shortcuts and things that were going wrong,
and the number of staffers who tried to speak up

(56:31):
and either got put to one side or told to
shut up, and that's what they did. So keen to
hear from you. On oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
Have you ever stood up to a boss or a
manager and what happens?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
This text to here sort of sum things up quite
nicely that guy Stockton was an absolute plonker. Yeah, yeah,
I think he was a planker. But he was also
a deadly plonker.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
Yeah, he certainly was. The other question I've just been
thinking about while we're having this discussion is what do
you actually do about a bad boss? Like a boss
like that?

Speaker 17 (56:59):
Do you just.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Leave without saying anything? Because a lot of people would
do that if they're in a situation and maybe not
quite to the same a lot of what was going
on with the Titan sub of course, but many people
would be in a situation where their boss might be
doing something a little bit dodgy, might not be completely illegal,
but instead of speaking up or saying anything, they'll just

(57:20):
find another job. Is that the right thing to do?
If you know something is going wrong at your place
of work? Is it okay just to walk away without
saying anything?

Speaker 2 (57:28):
I see what you're saying, so you know, you wash
your hands of it, but you leave other people to
face the danger, or you know, the horrible environment, whatever
it is. Yeah, I don't know, but it's a lot
to ask some people that are just getting by day
to day to then fight the big fight. We're not
all Aaron Brockovich's you know. You know, some of us
are just getting through, and sometimes people just have to

(57:50):
jump on the lifeboat for themselves and get out of there. Yeah,
very good point. Hey, this person's still going on about
the spoilers. You have still advised some spoilers with the
characters involved. You can't go laughing at me, Yes I can,
because it's a documentary, so naming the people that are
in it. This is actually hurt in my head. But
I'm like, it's not a spoiler to talk about a

(58:13):
news event and what happened in it and the names
of the people and what they've said in the documentary.
You do not understand what the idea of a spoiler.
A spoiler is when you say what happened at the
end of the sixth sense, that's a spoiler exactly. Okay,
So you Texter, love you to death, but you don't
understand what a spoiler is, So I'd recommend you just

(58:35):
leave it.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
We played the trailer and for a documentary that's one
hundred and eleven minutes. We only spoke about what's in
the actual documentary for about three minutes, so plenty to
watch their Dear Texter. We're not spoiling anything, but as
you say, it was, it was an actual news event.
Then everybody knew what happened in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Sometimes I feel people are just searching around in the
dark for somebody to complain about, just desperately trying to
find something to feel offended and to lash out about.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Go watch it. It's a great doco, right, headlines coming up,
and then we've got plenty of people who want to
have a shed is twenty nine to three.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
That's right. It was a red flag that they were
using a PlayStation controller two two. Let's operate the titan.

Speaker 10 (59:12):
You talk said, be headlines with blue bubble taxis, it's
no trouble with a blue bubble. A prominent sarmo and
fashion designer who was fatally shot at an anti Trump
protest in Utah yesterday has died. Arthur for Laarsa Alou
is being described by local police as an innocent bystander.
The thirty nine year old's collections have been shown at

(59:34):
events like Fiji Fashion and Pacific Runway. Concerns are being
raised by one or two locals over a previously unheard
of radioactive waste facility. The facility has been storing old
uranium near Palmerston North, having been built and opened without
public consultation. The Prime Minister, Police Minister and Commissioner are

(59:55):
all confident body cameras would make a difference and should
be looked at. A decision on the tech was put
off last year. The maximum weekly parental leave rate is
going up by almost thirty four dollars. Eligible parents can
receive payments for up to twenty six weeks. How to
divorce Well a key we lawyer on how to avoid

(01:00:15):
mistakes many couples make. You can see the story at
inn said Herold Premium Back to matt Ethan Tyner Adams.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Thank you very much, Rayleen, And we're talking about a
documentary that landed over the weekend on Netflix and has
very quickly shot to the number one most watched on
the platform. It's called Titan, the Ocean Gate disaster and
analyzes what went so wrong when that submersible imploded in
twenty twenty three.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, and there was a whistleblowers and people that tried
to warn the CEO Stockton lockin rush. So we're just asking,
how do you stand up to it to a powerful
boss and have you done that? You have you attempted
to do what's right?

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Speaking of what's right and what's wrong, there's a way
to describe tragedies and there's a wrong way if you
want to get sympathy from people, and you can reveal
a bit about yourself when you're on one of these documentaries.
So there's a influencer, a YouTube influencer called Jake Kohler
who's a diving influencer, and he went along to to

(01:01:14):
you know, basically cover the Ocean, the Ocean Gate and
the Titan submersible. But his his in his situation, it
didn't go down on his time because the weather was wrong.
And so he's interviewed in the in the in the
documentary and he they show him turning up and following
it whatever. But but he said this about the tragedy.

Speaker 18 (01:01:34):
Playform because the condensation ontim say this submersible you see
it beat him. Later on, I remember they had the
cran holding out the dom after everyone had passed away,
and I just remembered my feet was literally on that dome,
you know, just a few days before, and I'm just
thinking like damn, you know, like, look that was me,
super tough.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
There's he's crying and he goes, damn. I thought, damn,
what what if that was me? As opposed to damn
a father and son died in this horrible incident all
he could fok about. I'm sure it was just misspoke,
but it just looked at the moment, it's like, Damn,
he's crying. You're thinking that he's thinking about the full

(01:02:18):
horror of the situation of those poor people that died.
But then he goes, damn, that could have been me.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
It was a bad log, but definitely when you've got
a camera in your face. But yeah, that stood out
for me as well. Oh one hundred and eighty ten
eightyen is then number?

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Call a John. You've pushed back on a bos before.

Speaker 11 (01:02:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (01:02:35):
Yeah. Working in a warehouse and at the end of
the working day, one of the young staff there brought
the van into the warehouse and he shouldn't have been
doing it, didn't have a license, was an author. I said,
drive it and he hit the door pillar.

Speaker 6 (01:02:55):
Right.

Speaker 19 (01:02:56):
Di's some damage to the van now, this van was
a beaten up, crappy old van worth very little. Anyway,
the senior manager decided he'd make an insurance claim, and
of course, you know he was going to falsify things.
He was going to get somebody else to say they
had been driving, that is a license driver, so we

(01:03:21):
could put a claim through, which was a total lie.

Speaker 20 (01:03:26):
You know.

Speaker 19 (01:03:27):
So I trotted off to a couple of other little
managers and said, you know this is not right. You know,
you asking somebody else to lie and say they were driving.
And if you, as a company get found out lying
about an insurance saying, you know, you could get a
black name for your company, that could affect your any

(01:03:51):
old any of your policies going forward, you know. And
that's not counting the fact that's just playing wrong on
the first pace.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
How was that received, John, Well, I.

Speaker 19 (01:04:03):
Never heard really much from the senior manager, but I
know he did change changes tech and and not go
down that false claim route, much to my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
How big was the company, John, Oh?

Speaker 19 (01:04:21):
You know, in the millions of dollars of turn You know,
it wasn't a tiny place.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
You know, that's incredibly risky because if you did it.

Speaker 19 (01:04:28):
Twenty and thirty stuff. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
If you get a bad name for you know, if
if you're caught forra you know, committing insurance for arauder
and yeah, and your company can't get insurance for anything
ever again that's the interview company.

Speaker 19 (01:04:40):
Yeah, well, I couldn't understand it. It was just it
was a wacky sort of a thing to even consider.
You know, the van was a crappy old van. It
was due for the scrap beep anyway, it'd been on
the had been on the schedule to be replaced for years.
It was it was partly a function of the place
you used to operate on, a on a bit of
a tight reign, a bit of a you know, miserly

(01:05:03):
and you know they were trying to chisel every extra
dollar they could everywhere they could find it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
And you certainly did them a favor, John. But were
you when you spoke up where you're worried about they
might try and give you the flick? Was there any
that of that consideration.

Speaker 19 (01:05:16):
Well, it's a little bit, yes, But you know, I
was really had up about it. It was so so
off the wall, such a ridiculous thing to be doing.
I was really I was like a steam train going mate.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Shut on you, John, the sticks it doesn't agree, he says,
who gives a crap about an insurance company? They're the
biggest crops of all. Yeah. But I don't think John
was trying to save the insurance company. No, necessarily, he
was doing it because the right thing, because telling lies
is wrong. But also the blowback if you get busted
for faking, you know, and you get done for trying
to scam an insurance company, no more insurance for your company.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Yeah, and everybody loses their job. Good on you, John,
Thanks for giving us a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Buzz so grant you're in the aviation industry.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Yeah, good afternoon, guys.

Speaker 20 (01:06:02):
I'm no spoiler.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Please don't tell me who wins the Moto GP this
weekend in aviation and on the engineering side and also
the flying side. And I did watch this the other night,
and it was one of those interesting things where we
have in the industry. As an old add is, there
are no new accidents. And I fully believe that because
this was pretty much just a combination of all the

(01:06:24):
different things that have happened before in different accidents as
well and ones that I can sort of allude to.

Speaker 6 (01:06:30):
We call them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Organizational accidents where there's a total lack of communication from
the top down within a company, there's no safety culture,
there's no company culture. And a good example I guess
of a company culture is when you have good staff retention. Well,
if you kept looking through that documentary the other night,
the staff for retention wasn't there.

Speaker 5 (01:06:49):
It was like a conveyor belt, so you know, and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
That's a good indicator on good company culture, just culture
where you can actually speak up with no form of
retribution coming your way. But you know, we're a heavily regulated,
if not the most regulated industry on the planet in aviation.
But then again, Tho's maritime, and that fell under maritime.
But I was stopped and his crew the other just
a blatant shunning of the certification process behind that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Yeah, I understand right on the ground what they did
was they sort of didn't set themselves in any particular
country though were between the US, Canada and the Bahamas,
I believe, so they didn't they didn't get any certification
at all, none at all.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
And you can put that down to what, you know,
what we can call drift or a normalization of defiance.
But organizational accidents, and you can probably argue that just
about every accident on the planet could be an organization
and one where it's top down driven. And you have
some key ones that I can think of, plank rivers one.
You could probably even go back to seventy nine, you know,
the DC ten that we lost down on Erebus organizational accident.

(01:07:50):
You might remember Peter Marn's favorite famous line on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
And orchestrated litany of lies was that it yeah, that
was the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
One oval yeah, cave creach and over on the Herald
of Free Enterprise, which was a a y roll on
roll off area that came out of Zebraga and Belgium
and rolled over because the balla doors were left open
on the thing. But usually when a CEO is blatantly,
you know, shunning safety, it's going to go down right

(01:08:19):
through the whole thing like a like a disease. And
this is why we have what we call safety management systems.
Within the aviation industry. Everything on an aircraft has a
finite life, and that thing might have been fine. Carbon
fiber might have been fine if it was certificated and
also had a finite life on the thing where it
was to do say x amount of die right post

(01:08:40):
was eighty two or something eighty two, I think it did.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
It was in the yearly eighties that had imploded. But yeah,
I mean that's reject I mean, I mean exactly. And
the thing with stopped and rush as he hired people
for their expertise, and when they use their expertise to
tell them that this isn't good, he then fired them
and hired new people. And what it seemed has the
money people with less expertise until they got the answer

(01:09:04):
he wanted, which is just, you know, and looking back,
a recipe for disaster.

Speaker 17 (01:09:10):
It certainly is.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
And you're very right about his father's Stockton Rush too.
In fact, this is downe I'm down in the Southland
area and have flown over that lodge many many times.
It's called to Carro Lodge and it's upper river called
the upuck Aora River which flows back into Lake Peano,
and I believe the building's still there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
He's long gone.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
He died away back in sixty nine, I think, but
he started up and it was a unique luxury retreat
down there that had solid gold taps and all sorts
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
It's in a beautiful area of the world. But that
was his dad. Yeah again, he sounds like a better
stocked and rush. Yeah, then the ocean gates stocked and rush.
Just on the carbon hull.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
You reminded me when he called it it's seasoning. We're
seasoning the carbon hull, and they said that's not how
it works. You don't season carbon.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
Well, when it was going down and they had a
bunch of recording devices on it to listen to, you know,
what was happening with the hull, and it was making
these big spikes when you looked at it of sound.
His response was to get rid of the recording device.
If we don't hear it, it's not mad dog. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
We're going to say more of your phone calls very shortly.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call if you've stood up to a manager or boss.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
What happened and how did you go about it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
It's quarter to three.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Matt Heath Taylor Adams with you as your afternoon rolls
on Mad Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons news Talks.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
That'd be very good afternoon cheer. We're talking about a
new documentary that is out on Netflix. That is quickly
shot to number one. It's about the Titan. It's called Titan,
the Ocean Gate disaster. But we've asked you the question
when did you have to stand up to a boss
or manager? Because in this documentary it is very clear
that many people tried to stand up to the CEO
Stockton Rush.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Oh sorry, I forgotten what what our last call is
said described it as institutional God, damn it, institutional grant
from the Asia aviation industry. What did he say? Ah?
God God.

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
Anyways, the top down decision making that is that is he.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Had a word for it was like interstitutional just deficiency
or something. Maybe maybe we can get that back. But anyway,
you've got a lock. As a lot of people are
texting through, you might you might ask some questions about
that with the Manawanui because you know the court rulings
and the final Court of Inquiry report made public. The
court found twelve factors that contributed to the grounding sinking,
making it all more more likely to occur, and presenting

(01:11:25):
the Finance Court and Corey present Blah Blah Blah said
the court found efficiencies and the training the qualification of
key ships personnel involved in the incident risk related to
the survey task were not sufficiently identified, discussed and mitigated,
and instructions or procedures were lacking. The court also found
leadership was inadequate in some area's supervision was not as expected.
Levels and time pressure influenced the way the survey task

(01:11:46):
was conducted. You know, he could be describing Ocean Gate there.

Speaker 4 (01:11:49):
Yeah, that's pretty much everything that could go wrong went wrong,
isn't it? Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number
to call?

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Mark, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 21 (01:11:57):
Good after man, How are you very good?

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
You've watched this documentary?

Speaker 7 (01:12:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (01:12:02):
Yeah, that was mind boggling, I owning and very disturbing.
You how some of these very wealthy, intelligent people. And
he wasn't a silly man. He was very intelligent, but
he was dangerously intelligent. And the simple factors, like you've
already covered the things that I was going to say,
but you could sit in there and listen to strings

(01:12:23):
of carbon fire, the breaking and those noises, and it
was something. The simple factors was that people still got
on there with regardless of the alarm bells ringing, And
he just basically blatantly said that he was going to
destroy anyone that went against him or or spoke up.
And you know, the unclassification, the simple fact that he

(01:12:44):
did it, the armors and even the American Coast Guard,
the man that was investigating it was simple factors that
any ship that he used he didn't register. So very dangerous.

Speaker 7 (01:12:58):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 21 (01:12:59):
It was shocking. But I've also been unemployment and took
on took on a CEO. I worked for a well
known New Zealand company. I can't name them due to
ever reasons, but they happened up a new business and
as they do around New Zealand, over employed and within

(01:13:23):
two weeks dumped a lot of people off. And it
was just in the mannerism of how they did it,
and the CEO did it expectations, false KPIs, standards that
he had to meet, and in the end, people were
leaving this business and droves, which put me from until

(01:13:46):
what I see to now running the running the store.
And I was doing a big weeks. I was doing
seventy plus our day. Some days I was working seven
days a week because and I'd be on the phone
asking you know that the people that were in charge
of the CEO, and in the end I wasn't getting
anywhere the treatment that I was given the person it

(01:14:07):
was that you can by the franchise of the store
ended up leaving. The way workers were treated when managers
and even the CEO would come down was appalling, and
the way you'd speak about people. In the end, I
burent out and that cost me six weeks in hospital
due to you know, just health and mental health and
stuff like that. I was given a leader of termination

(01:14:31):
after being promised that my job was fine and all
that some of the stuff, so I thought, stuff you.
So I was lucky enough to Contactable who had already
previously had three cases against this company, and he did
it for free. And they turned around and said that
they're going to destroy me and destroy my life and
they've got millions of dollars. Well, let's to say I

(01:14:55):
had the gratification after two years of fighting them. Didn't
cost me a single cent, and they got found out
big time, and sadly, a lot of people you know,
did lose jobs because you know, they they thought we're
going to get too fast and stores closed down.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Yeah, well good on you, Mark stanning up and fighting
the good fight again.

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
That's all of a hard thing Mark did but got
on and it's the right thing to do, but very
brave and very hard for a lot of people to do.

Speaker 17 (01:15:21):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
We've got to the words I.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Was looking for was organizational Ah right, organizational discrepancies.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
Grant takes back, so, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
What Grant was saying was that it was the whole
organization led to the disaster the way it was set up.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. Plenty of great texts coming through as well.
We'll get to a few of those very shortly. It
is seven to three, the issues.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
That affect you, and a bit of fun along the way.
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons news talks.

Speaker 4 (01:15:50):
It'd be news talks, but we're going to carry this
conversation on. We are talking about, loosely the documentary that
has been seen by thousands and thousands of kiwis called Titan,
the Ocean Gate Disaster. We've asked the question when did
you stand up to a boss or manager? In the documentary,
you'll see pretty clearly that a lot of people trying
to stand up to the boss Stockton Rush and will

(01:16:11):
either put to one side or silence.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
You know what I want to think on a supplementary
issue being screwed in. You know when you watch the documentary,
so you get into this tube and they bolt you in.
They don't close the doors and shut it. It's just like, yeah,
I mean, if you've got any kinds of claustrophobia at all,
that is your worst nightmare before it even implodes. Yeah,
exactly right.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
Oh, eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call, love to hear your thoughts on this one.
If you want to send a teach you more than welcome.
Nine to ninety two is that number. New Sport and
weather on its way. Great to have your company, airs always.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Your new homes are instateful and entertaining. Talk It's Matty
and Taylor Adams afternoons on News Talk.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
Sebby, Very good afternoon. Do you welcome back into the program.
Great to have your company, and having a great discussion
about a documentary that's just been launched on Netflix about
the Titan desig so incredibly compelling watch.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Yeah, So we're asking what are your thoughts on the
whole Titan situation and the CEO Stockton rushed and what
it means to the wider world of organizational failure term
that I've learned today that I think is fantastic, great
to him from Grant that rang through and you know,
we just want to know how do you deal with

(01:17:31):
the boss who's going in the wrong direction. I mean
not just when it's life or death like it was
in the situation. But what Stockton Rush did was basically
fire anyone that told him that he was wrong and
replaced them with people that would say that he was right.
And the result was he died as long with along
with his passengers, which was a very very very grim situation.

(01:17:55):
Hey this stixer says, Hey, can you please let me
know which documentary you're talking about on the radio? At
the moment that Adrian, it's this one here.

Speaker 14 (01:18:03):
Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist visits to Titanic.
There was no way of knowing where titled It's going
to fail, but it was a mathematical certainty that it
would fail.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
Stockton fully believed in what he was doing that it
would work.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
He wanted to fame. It's a fuel's ego theme. I
have no desire to die.

Speaker 15 (01:18:24):
I understand this kind of risk that Stockton was a
borderline psychopath.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
How do you manage the person like that who owns
the company?

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Yes, one of the same, the zame Day will ever
do nobody spoke up? He would ruin somebody's lives.

Speaker 10 (01:18:39):
Stockton said, Bonnie is going to be our next lead pilot.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Are you nuts?

Speaker 10 (01:18:44):
I'm an accountant.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
No one's sign under my wife from the period. Yeah,
and they did, including yourself. So it's Titaned the Ocean
Gate submersible Disaster. It's on Netflix. It's the biggest show
in the country right now.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
And you might have heard a Kiwi accent in there.
We spoke about him last hour. But his name is
Rob McCallum and he is a very talented individual. We
currently he's a company called EOS Expeditions. But this guy
has been around Antarctica. He's had a lot of experience
with engineering and submercibles. And we've put in a request
to chat to Rob, so hopefully we get him on
the show this week.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Was that in the documentary that you just heard in
the trailer there from Bonnie Carl who was the HR
finance and finance director And you know, after David Lockridge
left because he had seen the problems and he didn't
want to pilot the situation before and when you see it,
they pilot with a PlayStation four controller. But he said,
you know. He then goes stopped and rushed. The CEO goes, well,

(01:19:44):
Bonnie is going to be our next lead pilot. And
Bonnie's like, I'm the account I'm the the accountant. But
he liked the pr He was like, oh, you know,
we've got you know. And the other thing that they did,
which was crazy to try and circumvent even though they
were circumventing laws all over the place by not getting
any certification and not basing themselves in any particular country

(01:20:05):
to be locked at, which has been part of what's
been so complicated with them investigation afterwards who actually leads
the investigation. But part of the thing that they were
doing was saying that the passengers that paid to be
on was giving them sort of small jobs like videographers,
so they could say they were crewe as opposed to
passengers to move them into a different legal sort of positions.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
Yeah, insane. One hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call, though, keen to hear from you if
you've stood up to a boss or manager.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
How did you do it?

Speaker 4 (01:20:34):
And what happens?

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Kira?

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
How are you?

Speaker 20 (01:20:38):
Hey, guys, I'm fine, Thanks.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
Now you're yeah, good to talk to you. So what's
your story.

Speaker 20 (01:20:44):
So you can tell from my accent, I'm not originally
from around these parts. Back in the States. I worked
in an industry that is also kind of like maritime
and aviation, extremely hazardous. And I was part of the
medical team.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Fine, do you mind telling what industry that was, Kira, aerospace? Aerospace, Okay?

Speaker 20 (01:21:08):
And so my view as being part of the medical
team and do a medical system design was that I
was supposed to explain how our risk tolerance for missions
and crew safety and so on aligned with our actual capabilities.
And very early in my tenure it was made clear

(01:21:31):
that a significant proportion of our group, and particularly a
lot of the managers, were of the opinion that no, no,
we were to provide just what you were saying about
the videographers.

Speaker 22 (01:21:41):
We were there to.

Speaker 20 (01:21:42):
Provide plausible deniability. And you know, for example, if there's
a piece of equipment that's supposed to fly and for
whatever reason it's broken or whatever, the standard is that
you're supposed to file a waiver to say this thing
is not going to work in the event of an emergency,
and then they come up with a workaround or a
way to mitigate or remediate. And I was told very early, no, no,

(01:22:07):
team players don't file waivers, oh, which you know, I
was really quite antithetical to my view, and I was
supported by my boss to the extent that he could.
But a little later on in my tenure there the

(01:22:28):
not just his boss or his bosses, but his boss's
boss called me up personally and said, oh, I've got
this task for you. I need you to evaluate the situation.
And he made it sound as if some of our
international partners were going to raise a concern about something,
and they made it sound like, oh, you know, they're
just trying to be disruptive and they're being overly cautious,

(01:22:50):
and you know, we just need you to give us
the data to show that you know, this is not
something to worry about. So I did what I was asked,
and I researched it, and I confirmed that actually, if anything,
these folks are not being overly cautious. They're not being
cautious enough. This is a significant issue and they have
the right of it, and I submitted my report and

(01:23:12):
I got a call from this guy and he said, Kira,
I haven't actually read your report now, but I'm going
to tell you what i'd like it to say, and
then I want you to tell me what you think
it should say real, which was about as close.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
And I that's an email form. So that's that's documented.

Speaker 20 (01:23:34):
There was phone. Yeah, I remember like literally sitting at
my desk with my head in my hands on with
the phone to my ear because those were in the
days of handsets and things. And I remember, you know,
literally seeing my career flash before my eyes, and my
and my officemate that we shared the room came in,

(01:23:55):
took one look at me and then just crept out
like I had just received, you know, a bereavement notice
or something. And uh and yeah, and I mean, I
I to my credit or my idiocy, I'm not sure
which I stood my ground, and I said, well, I
understand what you want, sir, but these are the reasons
that I don't think that that's appropriate. And you know whether, well,

(01:24:19):
let's just say that there's a reason that I'm now
here in New Zealands.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
So was because you couldn't get work there, it was
because you were being threatened.

Speaker 20 (01:24:31):
It was made clear to me that, I mean, my
part of the reason I could do what I did
was because my boss was even more of a catalyst
for change than I was, and he was a lot
less polite about saying it. And so at a certain point,
the entire branch of us that we're obviously seeing as
troublemakers because we we kept trying to align ourselves with

(01:24:55):
the Safety Directorate and point out things that where we
felt that, you know, we were like, look, we're perfectly
happy if you want our medical system to be you know,
a rosary in a box and so morphing to you know,
euthanize the person, that's fine. We just want everybody to
be on the same page about it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:15):
Kierra, We're loving to have a chat with you, but
we've just got to place some messages. So if you're okay,
can you just hold there for a couple of minutes
and we'll come back come back to you with some
more questions. Perfect, thank you, Just hold there. It is
quarterbas three News talk ed been just when we went
to the break. We're having a very interesting discussion with
Kira and she's done us the great service of hanging

(01:25:37):
over those messages and she's back with us. Kiera, thank
you very much for hanging through that. So, just picking
up where we left off, you were working for an
unnamed aero space agency in the US and there was
a report that you were asked to deliver to your bosses,
and your boss came back and said, I would like
you to change that report.

Speaker 20 (01:25:56):
Yeah, pretty much, pretty much, And to be fair, it
was it was not my boss, it was my boss's
boss's boss, which puts the pressure even higher. And yeah,
and you know, for a a report of this nature,
which is intended to address a safety concern. I mean again,
I think it's just like you were saying about the documentary.

(01:26:18):
You know, when you have a culture like you guys
were talking about before, that, you know, makes it clear
that you're expected to say what the boss wants to hear,
as opposed to what your expertise might like dictate, or
what your own personal opinion informed opinion might be. You know,
it is indeed a recipe for disaster.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
And realizational failure. Hey, so with your situation, was it
life a life and death? Would you say it was
a life and death situation? With these waivers.

Speaker 20 (01:26:49):
Well, I think what I can say is that, you know,
I was in medicine and medical systems design, so I
was not you know, well, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm
dealing with crue safety. I mean, and again we have
a safety director at the agency that is responsible for
that as well. But of course it's it's an engineering group, right.

(01:27:10):
The most of the decision makers in the agency have
an engineering background, and you know, many of them might
have had their last biology class when they were in like,
you know, seventh grade or something, and they it's a
very different mindset. You know. Engineers are like, if this
power bus sales, I can tell you exactly what's going
to happen. Why can't you tell me if this guy

(01:27:31):
has appendicite, it's exactly what resources he might need. I said, Well,
it depends the appendix burst, does he have any ongoing
chronic illnesses? You know, get what else?

Speaker 16 (01:27:40):
Did it get?

Speaker 20 (01:27:41):
Does get infected? Does he develop an abcess? And you know,
for engineers, that's often a very foreign kind of method
of thinking for them, and so that's why theoretically they
had us around. But as I say, even within our group,
not my specific group of medical system design but the
larger group there was very much this decision made at

(01:28:05):
a high level that you know, we were almost there
to provide plausible deniability rather than try to explain to
people who didn't understand our context what that was like.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
Wow, were you and you mentioned they're isolated from those
other groups, but within your own group, the medical group,
were you alone at having to make the decision whether
to take a stand on this was that, you know,
difficult for you without potentially any support around you.

Speaker 20 (01:28:33):
I was very fortunate in that my direct boss and
his boss were part of a kind of different generation
from a lot of the others they had been around
during Apollo, and they had a kind of different culture
and mindset compared to the folks who were mostly of
a Shuttle era vintage, and so I felt generally very

(01:28:58):
I felt very well supported by my direct boss, relatively
supported by his boss. But his boss was also wrangling
these other groups who had a very very different take,
as I say, on what the what the corporate culture
was supposed to be, and that made it extremely challenging
at times, and it made different parts of the same

(01:29:21):
group kind of you know, having these internes scene battles
and then it was made even more complicated because, of course,
thanks to Lyndon Johnson, the agency is very geographically.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
NASA are we talking about here.

Speaker 20 (01:29:35):
I can neither confirm nor deny, but let's just say
that as a result, there's a headquarters which is based
in one part of the world, one part of the country,
and an astronaut base which is set in a different
part and whatever mas to show on papers who's in
charge of whom. There's a pretty far distance between the two,

(01:29:58):
and so it was it was very, very difficult to
put it mildly.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
Yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing. Now
interesting though you say that. So let's just say, let's
talk about NASA as an example of an organization, so
with the whole as just an example, just just picking
plucking that out of the era, so you know, to
get to the Moon, a lot of risks were taken
and because they pulled it off. I mean, although Apollo one,

(01:30:24):
three lives were lost in that situation, terrible situation in
nineteen sixty seven, I believe. So there were huge risks
that needed to be taken or no, I'm not saying needed.
Huge risks were taken.

Speaker 20 (01:30:36):
And because agreed to be taken, agreed to.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
Be taken, and because they pulled it off and they
went to the Moon, it was considered heroic and amazing.
But equally, things are on a knife edge and it
could have gone the other way. And then you get
to the Challenger situation with the shuttle, and a lot
of people are saying, look, these tiles aren't going to work.
They don't work at this temperature freezing. You've got to stop.
You got to stop. But the attitude and NASA at

(01:31:01):
that point was we made it to the Moon and
we pushed the limits here, and we can do this
with the with the shut up. So you just see
what I'm saying. No, there was one of the greatest things.

Speaker 20 (01:31:11):
I would disagree a little bit. I would disagree a
little bit because you're quite right, there was Challenger and
subsequently Colombia. And one of the things that really frustrated
me was I saw that the reason the Columbia that
we lost Columbia and I lost friends on Columbia was
the same reason we lost Challenger a generation earlier. And
the issue there, which was disparate from the issues with

(01:31:33):
Apollo one and Apollo thirteen, was that Apollo was at
the time of the Vietnam era. It was at the
time when it was seen as a military imperative to
get to the Moon before the Soviets, and there was
already you know, young men, boys really were dying on

(01:31:54):
the evening news in the footage from Vietnam. So the
level of risk, the tolerance for risk in the late
sixties around this was completely different. And this is the
point I think you're getting at from the Shuttle in
a six moth Challenger or a generation later with Columbia,

(01:32:14):
because then it was we don't want to have any risk,
you know. And this is the point that I kept
trying to raise to my colleagues, which was, if we
had somebody, for example, on the shuttle who eats a
peanut and develops an anaphylactic reaction or gets chest pain
and suffer as a minor heart attack. Is at that
time the average age of the American Astronaut Corp. Was

(01:32:36):
forty six, it's going to be a disaster because on
CNN they're going to be like, well, you know, my
little Susie got bitten by a bee and she is
just fine. What do you mean this guy died? Or
you know, grandpa had a heart attack and he's doing fine.
Why would why would you know, the space program not
have the equipment they needed. And that was what we
were trying to express to the powers that be around

(01:33:01):
the medical system that we had at the time on
the various aircraft, on the spacecraft, Shuttle, and station. And
you know, because I think that what it comes down
to is just what you say, what's going to pass
the CNN test and the CNN test if such a
thing had had existed in nineteen sixty nine when Armstrong

(01:33:22):
and Aldron and Collins were going up and the CNN
you know test and the risk tolerance that was acceptable
in the eighties and nineties and two thousands were absolutely
leagues apart. And again, my problem was never that you
have to have this very expensive medical system or this

(01:33:42):
very elaborate whatever. I just wanted everybody, including the astronauts,
to be on the same page. I mean, I think that,
you know, going back to this terrible tragedy with the
submersible and half a family being lost in one one
fell swoop, if they had said to the family this
father and son, hey listen, this is the risk you're taking,

(01:34:07):
but you want to take it, well, well, we'll take
your money. You know, I don't think they would have
gone along with this, but they never even got that opportunity.
And that's what I think is so is so.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
Wrong and and interesting though, And you know, through to
your point with Krista was it Krista Mchaelis I can't
remember her name? The teacher, Yes, teacher. So as soon
as you're putting like a civilian on on the absolutely
as they did in the challenge, because that was trying
to prove the point, and the challenge was just routine
to go to, so safe it's safe, yeah, and that

(01:34:38):
was neither the case. It was still just a crazy
thing to be doing. And so as soon as you
put a teacher on there, that the risk profile is
totally totally different from you know, it's fired a you know,
test pilots and military personnel.

Speaker 20 (01:34:52):
And I can say we need a public affairs office
to rebrand it, to stop going for the oh, this
is so safe we should be doing it, and make
it a oh this is really dangerous, but it's worth it.
And that the problem was that that message was really
hard to do and all we were doing was going
up and coming down and going up and coming down
in the exploration and the you know, colonization and the

(01:35:15):
utilization of extraterrestrial resources was no longer on the on
the in the book in the works.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
Yeah, well, thanks so much. I could talk to you
forever about this. That's one of my favorite topics. But
of getting pressure from all angles to go to sands.

Speaker 4 (01:35:28):
Well, I'm going to say, their loss, whoever it is,
is our gain. Well, you know, it's fantasticating here in
New Zealand. It is twenty eight to three.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
Bag very shortly, Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZV afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
It is twenty nine to four, and we're.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
Talking about the ocean Gate documentary the titan you know,
the horrible situation with the submersible that was being sent
down to the Titanic that imploded, killing five people in
twenty twenty three. There's documentary on Netflix about it right now,
and it sort of raised this interesting question. Talking to
care of a for as well about risk and doing

(01:36:10):
great things. This text here says, I think people should
be allowed to take risks and do brave things against
popular opinions and safety experts. Sure they will be wrong
sometimes like in this case, but this is where all
great discoveries come from. As long as everyone involved knows
the risks and they prepay for rescue, then go for it. Jeremy, Yeah,
I mean absolutely, And that's definitely the case in you know,

(01:36:31):
the Apollo missions, when you had astronauts, there had been
test pilots that knew knew the risks, and in a
lot of ways they were military personnel. They're right trying
to get to the moon. But when you're selling tickets
as they were in this in the Titan submersible, two
people that didn't know the risks, you know, a billionaire

(01:36:53):
is not going to take his son. The Pakistani billionaire
that took his son along, he's not going to take
a son along if he knew the risks. And that's
where the problem was. You were bringing civilians into the situation.
You weren't people that were all on the same page
of let's try and do something amazing for the good
of humans. You were bringing people in that thought they
were going on an amusement park ride. Yeah, it's very

(01:37:15):
different in this case, I'd say it, but I would
agree with you that we have to take risks to
do amazing things. And you know we lost people trying
to go to the moon. When when I say we,
NASA did, America did. But you've got to say it's
one of the greatest things that the humans have ever accomplished.

Speaker 4 (01:37:29):
Yeah, and again, if it was just stocked and rush
in that submersible rather than those other people, his legacy
would be very different. He would be a maverick doing
great things rather than a mad dog loose unit who
didn't listen to anyone around him.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
Matt, you need to get that caller on for an
hour fantastic chat while I could listen to Cara all
day while your current caller is amazing. Yeah, I could
have just kept talking to her, but bloody ads.

Speaker 4 (01:37:49):
Bloody and we are going to try and get her
back because she was a fascinating person to chat too.
But right now itays twenty seven or four.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
We love the ads. They pay our way the mortgage.
Take that about it. I'll take that back.

Speaker 10 (01:38:04):
Us talk said the headlines with Blue Bubble taxis it's
no trouble with a blue bubble. An activist group says
the deaths of three greyhounds in three days shows the
practice needs to end now, save as urgent Greyhound racing
New Zealand to accept the government's gradual ban. The suspect
in the shootings of two Democratic lawmakers and their sparses

(01:38:26):
in the US has been arrested. Fifty seven year old
Vance Bolter is suspected to have fatally shot Democrat Melissa
Hortman and her husband in their home, as well as
injuring two others. The trio on board a boat that
capsized off the coast of Sar Taranaki a thought to
have all been wearing life jackets. Two people died after

(01:38:47):
the boat got into trouble about ten am yesterday, about
two hundred meters off Parterre. One is believed to be
a child. Fundraising efforts have already raised about eight thousand
dollars for those affected by the Littleton landslide last week
and the fire the following day. Oil prices saw and
local shares fall on fares of sas escalating Middle East conflict.

(01:39:10):
You can see more at ZID Herald Premium and back
to Matt Eath and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (01:39:16):
Thank you very much, Rayleen, and we are talking about
the documentary Titan the Ocean Gate disaster, and we all
remember that particular news story it was or anything was
talking about in twenty twenty three when it imploded trying
to take its CEO, Stockton Rush and tourists down to
see the Titanic. And now the documentary that's just been

(01:39:39):
released is rocketed up to number one by a country
mile on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
It's the number one what show in the country at
the moment. It's a very very interesting documentary. But the
bit that really really got me, I'd like to hear
people's thoughts on this and their fears and any one
with claustrophobia. But when they so, you've basically got a
tube and maybe at a carbon fiber not strong enough.

(01:40:02):
Obviously has proven yep, as it imploded. And then it's
not a door that's been closed as are saying before,
not like in a plane where you go a lever
or even a even like a hatch in a normal
submarine where you get and you close it and you
turn that wheel to close it. They bolted it in
and at one point when they're bolting it in and
one of the experiments, the woman that's bolted the men

(01:40:24):
drops one of the bolts and goes, oh no, don't worry,
We've got plenty of those. I just want to know
if who would be willing to go down in that,
you'd have to be you'd have to be running zero claustrophobia. Yeah,
I mean, there's some people that are very claustrophobic, can't
even go in elevators, and there's those people that are
mildly claustrophobic, which are most of us. But boy, boy,

(01:40:46):
to be bolted into that tiny little tube with some
absolute nutcase of a billionaire called Stockton controlling the thing
with a PlayStation controller, boy boy, boy, oh boy. And
I feel for that nineteen year old boy because apparently,
you know, this hasn't been one hundred scent confirmed, I
don't think, but he was terrified. I didn't even want
to go in it. One of the people that died.

(01:41:07):
He didn't want to be on there. Yeah, Well, his
dad was making him. His dad thought he was giving
Hi an amazing experience to his nineteen year old son.
And you know, can you just imagine what he was
going through when he was bolted in.

Speaker 4 (01:41:19):
Oh frightening. I mean, remember when it was all unfolding.
And I think most of us, I certainly thought before
we knew it had imploded, that they'd be sitting somewhere
down on the bottom of the ocean, six of those
people inside that tiny little tin can. Of course it
did implode, but terrifying, terrifying to get into that thing.
And now what we know, and this documentary talks to

(01:41:40):
a lot of formstaffers that Stockton Rush was an absolute
mad doc. There were several concerns and safety issues and
unscientific methods used, and many staff members tried to call
him out and he either gave them a flick or
completely silenced them.

Speaker 2 (01:41:55):
Yeah, that's right, Shadzada Dahwood and Solomon Darwood. So the
nineteen year old, the Sun Boy, just being bolted in
there when he didn't really want.

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
To go, incredibly sad.

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
Incredibly So it's one thing for Stockton Rush to die.
But the people that he took down there, and there
was the Titanic expert, a very famous Titanic expert that
was on there. He kind of knew what he was
in for. He was at least an expert on it.
But people that were paying for a joy ride, they
had no idea, especially teenage boy yep.

Speaker 4 (01:42:27):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to
call if you've seen the documentary Love your Thoughts. But
also when you've had to stand up to a manager
or a boss and what happened? How did you do it?

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
Yeah, because people tried to stand up to Stockton Rush,
the CEO of Ocean Gate. But what they did, what
happened was they'd get fired and then sometimes taken to court. Lee.
You have to fight a manager on something improper, Yes,
and what.

Speaker 17 (01:42:51):
Had come down from high tech mercy ball and path
to decrepit old land Rover.

Speaker 4 (01:43:00):
I certainly fell out of my depth talking to Canner.
She was a pretty pretty incredible woman.

Speaker 17 (01:43:05):
Yes, so what it's worth. After twenty three years from
the Navy, my first civilion job was managing a fish
factory on the Chatham Islands. Twelve fishermen, three divers, and
they were joined by a fresh water eel fisherman who
came down, shipped his family down his ute and his

(01:43:26):
failure and all his gear, and then found that he
had a problem getting his catch away from boggy river
edges and lakes edges. And he approached the company, the
main New Zealand company for whom I worked, and asked

(01:43:49):
for a de preparate old land rover which my engineer
was using the pirates for part to keep our land
rover going. They gave him a small budget and he
got the thing functioning and was able to get his
catch away, and then out of the blue, as the

(01:44:12):
locals the ship which served the island the home down
was actually at White Hagy discharging and loading. The company
rang up and told me to tell Shortmen. Oh, his
name wasn't Shortman. That was the nickname he earned because
he was very short and his wife was quite tall,

(01:44:35):
and they were catching shortman eels and long finiels. They
nickname shortmen and long thin short. When I told him
what they demanded, and they were demanding an our outrageous sun.
I spoke to the local garage proprietor who had a

(01:44:59):
fleet of land rovers, because he advised me as to
what he would buy the thing for and what the
bride that I would buy it, And neither of those
prices even matched the putting it on the ship and
shipping it to New Zealand. It wasn't worth stipping out.

(01:45:19):
The company would have lost money. So I defied them,
and of course it meant that Shortman would be unable
to continue fishing after all the expense of shipping everything
down to the chatter, and so the company and I
argued over it. I went home that evening hires the

(01:45:44):
kite because after twenty three years in the Navy, I
had submitted an act of willful disobedience or civilian employer.
The ridiculous thing about the whole drama was, as we
were arguing and as I was coming down off, the

(01:46:05):
vehicle was so rusted that its chassy had broken. It
was sitting thirty kilometers away until Chalttam tould get assistance
to get it and weld it all up again. That's
how little it was worked. And the whole thing died
an actual death, and I was waiting for the heavens

(01:46:27):
to fall on me, and the company kept me on
and buy me. A few months later a similar event,
not quite so dramatic or drastic, came up. Again. I
refuse to to deal with the fishermen involved in the

(01:46:49):
way they wanted, and eventually, after about a year and
a half, I resigned and we went our separate ways.
But it's just an illustration of how uncaring a company
can be for the people to whom they from whom
they make a living.

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
Nikki Lee, you're a good guy.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
That's a heck of a thing to stand up to
that company when they put that much money on the line.
And as Lee say is as a former navy man,
he's been told what to do all his life and
he never said no. But good on you, Lee, that
is taken a stance. So I wait, hundred eighty ten
eighty is the number to call. It's quarter to four.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
Have a chat with the lads on eight eighty ten eighty.
Matt Heathan Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talk said be afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:47:35):
It is thirteen two four.

Speaker 2 (01:47:37):
So apparently yeah, according to Grantee, James Cameron does a
great debroof on this whole situation on YouTube on the
Ocean Gate Titan disaster. James Camera reveals new information about
Titanic's sub disaster. Very very interesting. And James Cameron, of course,
the director of Titanic and who has done a number

(01:47:58):
of documentaries, who has gone down on proper safe subs
and had a look, he certainly knows what he's talking
about in this era area. But I mean, the thing
with the Titan submersible was they wanted it to be
light enough, so it was cheaper or cheap enough to
take out on the ship to put it under. Whereas

(01:48:22):
you know the ones that James Camera is going down
on on very expensive ships, and they're very expensive boats.

Speaker 4 (01:48:27):
And millions and millions and millions.

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
So to make it a commercial venture, to make it
like a sort of a you know, a tourist ride, yeah,
that was that was the idea of ocean Gate, but
probably not something that was even possible.

Speaker 4 (01:48:42):
Exactly, Steve. You took on a big company, Yes.

Speaker 17 (01:48:46):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 22 (01:48:47):
Hey, first time, Polly. He is so shaking all we
bit Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:48:51):
Thank you for listening, Thank you for calling. Appreciate it.

Speaker 21 (01:48:54):
That's good.

Speaker 22 (01:48:54):
Hey, I took on a New Zealand company about seven
years ago, and I'm.

Speaker 9 (01:49:02):
Pleased I did.

Speaker 22 (01:49:04):
There was a hell of a lot of streets and
doing it because as you never know whether you're going
to get the right ant or the answer that you're
looking for. But it was great.

Speaker 9 (01:49:14):
I came out.

Speaker 16 (01:49:16):
Basically what the story is, I.

Speaker 9 (01:49:17):
Won, but in seeing I won and walk away smiling.
The years after are still very hard for you.

Speaker 22 (01:49:30):
One you've got to start again in your employments. One
that it's also a something that hangs on that you've
left a job for that reason. But your health is
another biggie. I suffered after doing all this or before

(01:49:51):
end during with anxiety and what have you now? Seven
years later, I still suffer from anxiety and still get
the same symptoms even just thinking about things, even though
I've tried the hardest to try and put it behind me,
and I'm in a brilliant new employment now. But you

(01:50:12):
still have doctor's appointments and medication to purchase.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Do you still think you still think? I believe that
it was the right thing to do. So what the
company was doing was so wrong that even all you've
gone through you think it was the right thing to do.

Speaker 22 (01:50:29):
Definitely the right thing to do. But just even though
you come out on top, there's still I've still got
the expenses I've had since.

Speaker 2 (01:50:39):
Really, what can you give any details of what what
the what the company was doing wrong? Well, I mean,
obviously you can't give too many details.

Speaker 22 (01:50:47):
Understand, I was actually literally being bullied by a second
from the top, like it was New Zealand wide, so
it was second from the top in a sort of
like a satellite branch, and I accepted it for a

(01:51:07):
long time thinking, oh, you know, it's just the person,
and you know, maybe I was doing something wrong. And
Tom got to the stage where it was actually affecting
my health, that was making me sick and even and
then I got the stage where I see help from
the doctor and a lawyer and I had to actually

(01:51:31):
resign from the place.

Speaker 2 (01:51:33):
Yeah, well, thank you so much. Care sorry to hear that, Steve,
but it sounds like you did the right thing.

Speaker 4 (01:51:37):
Yep, and glad you've got a good job now apart
from the trauma as well. Thank you very much. It
is eight minutes to fall back very shortly.

Speaker 1 (01:51:45):
The big stories, the big issues, to the big trends
and everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons
used talks. They'd be coming up at fourth. It's Heather Duplessy, Alan.

Speaker 23 (01:51:57):
Drive returning Kiwi's in Israel and in Iran to get
out of there as fighting in both countries escalates. Foreign
Minister Winston Peters is with us after five. What's the
event really doing with sick Leaf? When to get to
the bottom of who's getting their lead cut? Plus can
I replace a therapist? We're going to talk to a
clinical psychologist about therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:52:15):
Chat, asking the questions, getting the information you need. Heather
duplessy Ellen Drive with One New Zealand Next on news
Dog zebby five to four.

Speaker 4 (01:52:25):
We've been talking, obviously about the Titan Ocean Gate disaster
documentary that has been launched on Netflix, wildly popular. Quick
text from Lindy here she's watched it. Giday. Guys, I'm
biased because I'm Scottish, but the Scottish guy, David Lockridge,
was the hero of all this. He was the only
one brave enough to whistle blow, even though he was
ignored by authorities and threatened to be ruined by the boss.

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
Yeah, he's definitely the hero of the show. Hey, thank
you all your great New zealanderts for listening to the
show today. Thanks so much for all your calls and texts.
We've had a great time chatting. Hope you have two
Matt Tayler. Afternoon's podcast will be out in about an hour,
So if you missed any of our chats on overcrowded
schools in New Zealand and where the parents should be
braver and just seeing their children to the nearest school,
and that good old chat we had about the Ocean

(01:53:06):
Gate Titanic Disaster. Download and follow our podcast where we
get your pods. The Sir Paul Holmes broadcast of The
Hair That Duplus the Island is up next. But right now, Tyler,
why am I playing this song?

Speaker 4 (01:53:20):
Because we're all just bricks in the wall. No matter
what school you go to, Pink Floyd, great chunk.

Speaker 2 (01:53:25):
There you go, wherever you are, what are you doing
until tomorrow afternoon? Give him a taste of keiw from
us Love here you don't get me.

Speaker 1 (01:53:49):
Shut For more from News Talks b listen live on
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