Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Continuing our Great New Zealanders of Christmas series. Everyone Knows
Jude Dobson. She became a familiar television presence in the
nineteen nineties after Quiz Show Sale of the Century. She
went on Too How almost one thousand episodes of five
point thirty with Jude Wow and its follow up. For
the past six years she's been researching, writing, producing and
directing World War One and World War II content, and
this year she released a book, The Last Secret Agent.
(00:38):
My life is a Spy behind Nazi lines with the
last surviving World War II British spy. It's the real,
untold story of Pipolatour's time as a secret agent in
the deadly world of Nazi France. The book has been
a smash hit here in New Zealand, been reprinted four
times and in Australia, and has been released in the
UK and is coming out in the US A in
(00:59):
May next year. I believe, Jude, congratulations on your huge
success this year. Are you surprised at how well the
book was wenton was received?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I hadn't actually thought about how well it would go.
It was just such a birth. The pregnancy and birth
was quite painful. But Pippa's story is amazing, and I'm
so pleased for her. She's no longer with us, of course,
but I'm really pleased for her that I could help
her bring that to life.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, I I secretly thought it might go okay because
when I started talking to her olwer, Yeah, this is
quite amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, because it was a story that you know, when
you came across her and first started talking to her,
It's quite amazing that the story exists and exists here
in New Zealand. So the fact that it actually exists
was amazing. And then the execution of her story about
you was fantastic, but fantastic that you found it.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I was researching some World War II aviators in twenty
nineteen and she was introduced to me, and I said, oh,
gosh'd be great if you told your story one day,
and she sort of gave me that look like that's
never happening. But she did tell her story with not
a lot of runway left at one hundred and one. Yeah,
and I secured a publishing deal for her. So I
(02:07):
just want to make that clear. Roties, I go my way,
they all go to Hipper or her estate. So and
she didn't have a lot to her name.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah, and what was that first sit down with Piper?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Like, oh, well there before we got to that stage. Yeah,
the first sit down you mean when we sat down
to chat, you're no really good?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
She was up for it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, she had a task and she wanted to do it.
And it was a bit like once she'd decided, it
was all good.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
I mean I had some rules.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Around rules of engagement, yes, you know, not more than
sort of nineteen minutes. She was one hundred and one
hundred and one then, and I had to go between
the dove feeding times and one day I was late,
and of course she doesn't have as No, there's no
data there. I mean your phone goes to SOS WiFi,
no data. So if I'm late, I couldn't run, couldn't text.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So for people that don't know the situation, she's she's
set up very remotely.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yes, in Henderson Valley, Yeah, and very remote. Seventeen hectares no.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
No no, no, no WiFi, no five.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
No, none of that. Yeah, so it was quite it
was quite love and my phone would just sort of disappear.
And if I was if I got to travel a
couple of times last year with the World War One
museum I was working on in France, and so I
would the first time. Silly may I thought, oh, yes,
I'll show her all the videos and the photos. And
i'ment not It's all in the cloud. So before i'd visit,
I'd have to download everything to my laptop. And it
(03:29):
was so lovely to see her go, oh yep, no,
that's my village. Oh yeah, and I remember that it
was really visually it was beautiful for her, just to
watch her see it all and and remember and.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
When did her family find out about her clandestine life? Early?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, about twenty years ago. Wow, and she was in
the acies then, so something, you know, people knew of her.
I mean, she's I found a wonderful researcher in the UK.
He knew all about her. They knew of her, but
she didn't tell her family. And there were certainly the
essays and defense knew here her here. The essays were marvelous.
They go out and clean up her house every couple
(04:06):
of twice a year. Yeah, but didn't know, she's pretty.
As she said, this is nobody's business but my own,
my war, my story. I don't need to tell it
until she did.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, because for us we find the whole thing interesting
and exciting. But for a long time, for her, you know,
that was something she did, and then she came back
and had other parts of her life and had children
and then sort of kind of I don't know. There's
some people that just will want to talk about it
the whole time over drinks, and there's some people that
just want to pine them for a while.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Correct, she was the latter.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, Well, thank goodness that you that you got to
talk to her, and so close to the end, as
you say, because yeah, lucky me. It's fantastic that the
story got out there.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah. No, I feel extremely privileged, Matt. They have talked
to her. Pretty fortunate.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Just a little bit about the intro of Pippa parachuting
into the danger zone and obviously she put herself in
this immense danger and she was selected because she was
fluent in French and she had those coding skills. But
she had to come up with some pretty ingenious ways
to get the messages back to the Allies.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Didn't she. Are you talking about her coding? Yes, yeah, yeah,
well the way she her silk coat. She they're like
a size of a handkerchief really, and so she had
decided to put them into an old shoelace which was
flat in those days, and then stuffed them in with
a knitting needle and then use that as a hair
tie because of course, you know, you're not having pretty
ribbons back in the day, and she was her alias
(05:33):
was a schoolgirl, so it was quite normal to have
some knitting and you know that that is a hair tie. Yeah,
so that's how she had them. Yeah, surely only once
almost got them discovered when she got strip search, but
they didn't think to look at that.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
But yeah, incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
The bravery of it is what blows me away. And
you you know, you wonder who has that bravery in them.
I know I wouldn't have that bravery in me.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
A different time though, you know, although a world might
be changing, jets of it. I think I think we've
had a whole couple of generations. I mean, I look
at our children. You know, peace had peace for decades.
They haven't known Europe at war, have they? None of them?
So and that generation is just dying off that remember
(06:20):
it and.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
What was it like for you when you went over
there last year? I believe to go visit these locations
and find more information about Purple. What was that like
for you?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Extraordinary? Our schoolgirl French was utter rubbish, but I took
photos of her and managed her in this little village.
They remembered her. And the piece of gold for me
was going to the village they sent me. The chaps
on the batonk Court sent me five kilometers, So met
what if it was five kilometers a golf you know?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Left.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I got to this little library and there was a
book there that the man who has her touched on
the ground his her safe house. He had written a
memoir and written all the dates of exactly what happened,
and her name was in it. And so I went, hey, Peppa,
you know those stories you tell me and you don't
know what time they are bingo, I have it all.
(07:09):
So that was just I mean, I don't believe in
another force, but there was something there that went, yeah, hey,
I can help you out.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
We're talking to Jude Dobson, author of This Secret Agent.
My Life is a Spy behind Nazi Lines, the story
of Papola Tours. We're now for the book, so it's
coming out in the US and may we got further
plans for it.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Well, I have secured the option on film because I
would like to have a go at that. And I'm
learning how to do a screenplay, which is a different discipline.
And hey, look, we've all got to scare ourselves and
learn new things. But I've already visualized what I like
in this film. So I need to find a big
film fish. Yeah, yes, who wants to talk to me?
(07:55):
And yeah, get on with doing that. I'd love to
make that film with somebody that knows more than me
about film.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's interesting that you should say visualize that because I
was just listening to this podcast with Quentin Tarantino and
he said the difference between film executives and filmmakers is
that the film maker has already visualized the film. I sure,
so they can answer the questions because they've kind of
already seen it.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, I've already put a drone up, got the car
going through there, I've got the doves, I've got the
on the roof, I've got some things in my head.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh, brilliant news talk z B.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
We are talking to Juke Dobson is part of our
great New Zealanders of Christmas series. Jude, thanks again Fever
in a chat with us.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
So what does Christmas look like for you this year?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Well, our two big kids are flying back and from
the States, so that's my best present. I'm tracking them
on flat flight radar as we speak.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
You are and what part of the will there? And
they're in the American in America? Yeah, yeah, fantastic. You're beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
All right, this is a key question. Best Christmas song
and best Christmas movie?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Oh well, driving home for Christmas always makes me a
little bit teary.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, it's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I like songs that are beautiful to listen to lyrically
and also have some meaning. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, I was talking you about this yesterday. That piano
line than the chorus, so good.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
To play it.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And that last line he looks over at the guy
he goes, He's just the same.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
That's such a great life.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
This might be a hard question, Jude, but the best
piece of advice you think you've had this year?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Oh, I keep it. I have my mother in my head. Actually,
because I've lost my mum and her advice always rings
true on anything. It's this, too shall pass, which can
be a little bit of a hackneyed expression, but you know,
people often think about that as oh, it's hard moments,
you know it's going to pass. And I remember when
our kids were little, she'd often say that to me.
(09:47):
But actually is the flip side of that, which is
when times are really good, they passed too. So just
trying to stay in the moment with what you're doing
and being in it because it doesn't last. Nothing lasts,
and the only constant and that's the only constant in
life has changed. And often say that to our young
adult children, you know, just at all of us. I mean,
I've got nothing like and up in the wave of
(10:09):
media next year, so I have to go, oh, that's right,
my own advice. Life constantly change.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
It's really nice.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So true though. If you're going through a difficult time,
it will pass. But if you're going through a good time,
that'll pass, So enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And I think our role as fellow human beings is
to be cognizant of that, and especially at this time
that you just reach out to people you know, it's
a bit but I get a bit over the think, oh, family,
friends have a lovely Christmas. A lot of people don't
have a lovely Christmas because they don't have family or friends.
So we often have We've often had waives and strays,
which are really fun Christmas. It's divorces whatever, you know,
(10:47):
people on their own.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It's lovely.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, and it's a huge thing. I was just watching
the Christmas Carol, you know that, and yeah, great, and
you know, one of the best moments of that book.
I love the book, but as when you know, when
Scrooge goes around to his nephew's house and there's that
moment whether they're going to accept it, and then they
just go, yeah, bring in because even though he's been
a deck, he's on his own. And then so they
welcome them into that house. There's a great moment.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Oh, I didn't say. My movie Polar Express and there's
little lots of little lovely moments in the you know,
like little Billy, the kid who's a bit shy, and
the other kids sort of bring them on board.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Also also a motion capture Christmas movie by the same
as the Christmas Carol movie. I was just talking about.
So yeah, there you go, Yeah, you're goe. And look,
here's a difficult, difficult question, isn't it. You've got a
message for New Zealand for twenty twenty five because everyone's
doing and survived to twenty twenty five. There's a lot
of grimness going around, but you've got a message for
(11:43):
us in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well, I think it probably goes with the one I
was just saying about, you know, thinking about Christmas, because
Christmas is just one day. But I do think that
thing of well, actually, resilience is the thing. But in
looking out for your fellow man. I know it sounds
a bit ridiculous and a bit cheesy, you know, great
some cheese on top of that, But I learned this
from Pepper actually, and I've learnt it in some of
(12:06):
this child development stuff I've don Resilience is it also
a bit of a thing? People go, oh, that means
hard enough, get them out there, life's tough enough. Actually,
if you're resilient, that means you have people in your corner,
and actually that's what makes you resilient. You've got someone
that you can always talk to and say things are
a bit tough, and that actually gives you enough confidence
to give things a crack. So I'd say just think
(12:30):
about the people around you and what can you do?
Service is a funny, old fashioned expression, but what service
can you be to other people?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And when you think about your life and how hard
it may be, and for some people is very hard,
and others of us make it harder than it needs
to be. But you might want to think about Pippa
behind the behind enemy lines, are risking your life for
something that she believed in and needed to be done,
and not all of us have to do that. So
maybe we should do little bits of that if we can,
(12:58):
and whatever way it manifests in our lives, can I need.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
A lot of that next year? Ye fantastic or Jude,
lovely chatting with you and thank you very much. Have
a great Christmas, you two, and we'll see again.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So for more from Newstalk st B, listen live on
air or online and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio