September 25, 2024 • 32 mins
Musician and Shihad frontman Jon Toogood shares his best and worst money stories with Liam Dann.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Madam again. Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald's Business
editor at Large and welcome to this episode of Money Talks.
This is a podcast about money, but we're not going
to tell you how to get rich, and we're not
going to try and pick the next interest rate move.
In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders
(00:24):
about how money has shaped their lives and what they've
learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by
singer songwriter and she had frontman John too Good Cura John.
Welcome to Money.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Talks, Cureda. How are you good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thanks, I'm excited to have you here and excited to
hear you're about to go on tour again across the
country and first solo album. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It is the first solo album and which is weird
after thirty three years in the industry. But it just
it was circumstance, covid Lockdown's lots of personal family carnage,
lost my mum, lost my brother in law. Yeah, so
I just needed to I needed some gentle music, so
I picked up my accous guitar and started writing. That
was my way, like therapy. It was total therapy and
(01:08):
you know what it's like out of pain. You know,
I think some of the best words I've ever done,
because it's like I had to be brutally honest with myself,
you know. And I'm really proud of this record. It's
a beautiful thing. I mean, I made it to sort
of hold me, you know. It was supposed to be
comforting to me, and it seems to. When I play
(01:28):
the stuff live, there's always someone that comes up and says, well,
that happened to me, you know, And yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I mean we've been privileged enough to ends you me
to hear a couple of the songs and advance and
it's pretty heavy stuff like you're talking about, but it
doesn't come across that way musically. It's quite of uplifting.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, well, it is. It's supposed to be the way through.
It's a way through. It's a way through. I mean,
it's it's just life, you know. I mean I think,
you know, my mum would prefer to have it that
way than losing her children rather. You know, that's the
way of the world. If you stick around long enough
and to lose someone that you love, you know, but
Noine sort of prepares you for that. I think in
(02:04):
the West we sort of we're taught to sort of
live like we're always going to be here, and then
we're so shocked and surprised when someone dies. Yeah, and
it's like yeah, so I think, yeah, it's good to
break the stigma of that. I mean, it's just part
of life, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah. Well, look, let's jump into some of the money
talks questions, and some of that will be family and
growing up and things. You know, if we went right back,
do you what are your first memories of money in
your life, holding it in your hand, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we were I was basically brought
up by two British immigrants, ten pound poms, you know,
both given ten pounds to come and start a new
life on the other side of the planet. Dad was
a cabinetmaker, Mum was a receptionist at State Insurance. We
didn't have much growing up. Yeah, it was Wellington, right, Wellington.
(02:54):
All the people I grew up calling auntie and uncle
were all just the people that were on the boats
with my parents. Son't wasn't until I was seven and
we went back to London to before I met real
blood relatives or anything like that, so it was I
suppose an immigrant experience, British immigrant experience. I didn't realize
that we weren't very rich until I sort of went
(03:15):
to high school and started hanging out with people that
had more money than me, and then went, oh, okay, right,
I mean I remember some of the happiest memories from
childhood was like my parents to make it okay for
the kids that we didn't have much. We'd sit around
a gas heater with white bread on a big fork
and toast the toast the bread. You know. It was
(03:35):
like exciting, man, it was like and it was exciting.
It was like, yeah, I get to cook my own food.
But it was just one slice of bread. So yeah,
it didn't really have much going up. Yeah did you
get pocket money? Yeah? Once, yeah, I think once once
we started. Yeah, we did. Actually, we all took We
had a sort of a chart. You know. I had
(03:56):
an older brother and sister, so you know, someone was drying,
someone was washing, someone was looking after the car, and
you know the lawns and stuff, and yeah, yeah, I
used to do that for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah. One of the things that comes through all the
people I've talked on this podcast is that new Zealand
in those days. You know, there wasn't such a huge disparit.
You know, if you didn't have much money in the family,
the things that people were doing with money, there wasn't
as much going on, was it.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, not really. I never felt we were lacking anything like.
It was very loving, supportive family life and all my
friends who were you know. I went to Island Bay
Primary School in Wellington and everyone was from everywhere, you know,
like and went to a public school. It was great.
I loved it. I love my childhood in Island Bay.
(04:41):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean at school where it was music a
thing right off the bat.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Music was a thing even back in the family home.
Like my two earliest memories is one was the Lolli
jar because I really liked sugar. My parents loliger and
then the other one was my parents all in one
record player and had a speaker built into it, and
I used to just watch the Beatles Hard Day's Night
go around and be fascinated by this alchemy of putting
(05:06):
a needle down on a bit of plastic that was
going around and then the sound would be generated. And
I was like how it was alchemy, And I wanted
to know, how do you do that? What is the
process that they got there?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
The Beatles would have been huge, I guess apparance, but
what were the other bands that sort of influenced those early.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Early Okay, so early on I had an older brother
and sister. I think I mentioned I was very lucky
to have that because they'd go out and make all
those fashion mistakes, and some of those were great ideas,
you know. So I think with my brother, he introduced
me to things like the Jam I really liked, you
know that that's entertainment and all that sort of sort
(05:45):
of stuff. And my sister was more punk, so Stiff
Little Fingers, sex Pistols, Public Image Limited. She told me
when I was getting older, she said, just before I
hit high school, she said, you begin to heavy metal,
old disowner. So I think, because I've got a rebellious spirit,
I purposely went out and found a heavy metal record
(06:06):
and got into it. So yeah, but growing up, I
think my first album that I bought was Bob Marley Legend,
which I still listened to to this day. It's a
fantastic record. A Human League Dare, I think was my
second record, so it's pretty eclectic yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I mean there's a classic key we sort of vibe
around music at that age is and I mean you
discover led.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Zeppelin all that type of stuff totally.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I know that eighties, you know, it was all got
a bit glam for a while and you had to
sort of look back a bit to find the real metal.
I suppose.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I think leed Zeppelin was one of those ones
that where they metal. It was hard rock, you know,
but that it was one of those bands that if
you got it, you could go for a deep dive
into that band and all the different phases that they had.
My favorite is Houses of the Whole because it's got,
like you know, it's just got every single song on
(06:59):
that records, great danced, crunge, no quarter, no quarters.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Anyway. I have to catch myself here and not go
too deep and discussing ze Okay, so you're at school,
you know what about Korea was? You know, like, was
music a career option early on?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Originally I was the captain of the Wellington Primary School's
cricket team, So so I was being sort of you know,
conditioned to think that maybe I had a career in cricket.
ID that you made representative level. I was the captain
of the team and in my team was Mark Ellis,
you know, Charlie's juice guy and not an All Black,
(07:40):
and also Danny Himona was my opening bowler and my
best mate. And he ended up being another musician called
damn Native Guy. But we used to play against. You know,
Chris Ken's was the captain of the cantry boys around you.
He never got me out. I was scared shitless of
a no because he was he was like one of
those guys that school that was shaving before everybody else.
(08:02):
You know. I was like, there's no way that that
guy's thirteen, but he was apparently he was frightening.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Do you a bowler a batsman?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I was an all rounder, so yeah, so I was
a good swing bowler and number three batsman. But around
that time I met Tom Larkin, the drummer of Shee Had,
and he said he played guitar, because I had had
guitar lessons from seven till eleven, and he said, join
my band I want to and gave me a copy
(08:30):
of a Cdc'shigway to Hell and Metallica's Ride the Lightning
and said I want a band like this, And I
was like, I've never touched an electric guitar. I haven't
even been in a room with an electric guitar. And
he said it's easy, and so he took me into Wellington.
I went to Wellington High School and we'd sort of
basically once we discovered the music room with all the
band gear, that's where we spent our whole high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(08:51):
And then my parents were really disappointed at first because
they really wanted me to be a black camp. But
then once they saw me when a music award on
Teley next to Coronation Street, they were and they became
the biggest supporters of GHAT.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
But there's a few years in between, right, so so
it must have been you know, I guess as parents,
they're probably just worried about about the stability of a
career in music. It can be a tough road.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It is most definitely a tough road. It's not it's
not for the slight of heart. You've got to really
believe in yourself and you've got to really want to
do it.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Said, making that leap between going oh this is great fun,
I'm in a band, and it's a it's a you know,
something we're doing for a laugh and actually going are
we going to try and take this yes?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And go yeah. Well so luckily I met like minded,
ambitious young men at high school that were willing to
take that journey with me. And we're just as driven,
if not more so, than I was. So I was
surrounded by a good team and you need that because
it's a team effort. And we always set off sites
(09:56):
much further afield than just New Zealand. We were like,
how does Metallica sound like it does? How does you
know led Zeppelins sound like they do? We were never
thinking about just the borders of New Zealand. We're thinking
about how does an international how do we sound like
an international band? How do we sound that huge sound
that we love? And so we just went on a
journey to try and find that the answers to those questions,
(10:19):
you know, And basically it comes down to putting in
the hours and rehearsing and playing shows and never taking
no for an answer. Being extremely a career focused.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
But when you say career, I mean that's absolutely focused
on the music, right, But did you think about the
business side much in those days? You know, how you
could make a living?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
At first, we knew that it was going to be tough,
you know, we knew that we were going to be
earning practically less than the doll But that day that
we did actually give our jobs away and went, okay,
we've got a record deal in Germany. It might might
not be the best thing, but it's still a record deal.
We were like, we are prepared to eat rubbish and
do what we need to do to get to that point.
(11:03):
And then it was like, you know, you know, ten
years of hard grind, just making enough money to feed
ourselves and travel to America, then travel to Europe, then
to Australia and just going never taking no for an answer,
and then finally publishing companies going yeah, we want what
(11:23):
you've got his big advance.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Because it was still fairly traditional, you know, in those days,
it was almost the way it had been for twenty
to thirty years in terms of how bands work. Do
you look at it now, I mean, how does it
compare now? But also when you look at young bands
the way that they're looking at Korea now, it's very different, right.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, it's really it's different on so many levels. It's
different on the fact, even right down to the fundamentals
of like having to learn how to play your instrument.
Nowadays you've got the resource of YouTube, which has got
all the best guitarists in the world. This is how
you play this. We did have that resource. We had
(12:01):
to hunt down the local guitar tutor who might not
be into the music that you like. But that's the
only person I could find. So there's a different skill
set going on. If someone's keen and passionate, they can
become very very good, really young, and you need to
be good young to compete basically, And so there's that.
(12:21):
Then there's also direct lines of communication between you and
your audience, which we didn't have, like the Internet, social media,
blah blah blah. I'm not very good with that because
I'm not part of that generation. I'm still of the
generation that I liked my rock stars to be mysterious,
like Prince. You know, I didn't want to know what
Prince was eating for dinner. I wanted to I just
(12:43):
wanted to be him, you know, like because he was
you know, he slept with Apollonia, which was really cool,
you know, and I liked that. I like that mystery,
and I'm quite a private person, so I'm still I
think a little bit like that, which is probably business
wise to my detriment.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean, it feels like young kids, you know, they're
really got a hustle now. They sell their own T
shirts and.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
They've bought a brand themselves. Basically, they've got to think
of themselves as a brand rather than as a person.
And that's people. There's some kids are so good at it.
But that's just the world that they're we're in, and
and all power to them. But I actually really love
going home after playing a show and being private. Yeah,
I actually really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You know, was there a point when the success started
to come with you thought, gee, there is some money here.
I need to think about this in a sort of
a practical way, you know, that personal finance stuff, in
vesting in a house.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Or absolutely, and I did do that, you know, first
big publishing payout we got. I that was used as
deposit on a house in Brooklyn and Wellington in my
first marriage, and yeah, that got us into the onto
the property letter, you know, and it was like after
years of renting or sleeping on couches, you know, pretty much,
(14:04):
you know, and that was from a publishing deal. Yeah,
and I mean, I've got to say, it wasn't until
I actually got out of that first marriage and had
to reassess my whole life that I actually worked out
where my income streams were, where I made money, what
I didn't even know what I was earning. Yeah, it
(14:24):
must have been.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And you hear there's a lot of bands, it just
must be like a will wind for a while minutes
all on them.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Because you're not late nineties early okay. So I was
the guy in the band that was the creative right,
I was the guy that was writing the words, writing
the songs, and you know, behaving like a performing demon
on stage, making sure that everyone walked out of that
venue going that was the best rock and roll band
I've seen. That was my That was the eyes on
(14:52):
the prize. I wasn't even looking at my bank account,
you know. I was just going, as long as people
want to see us, I'm happy. And it wasn't until
I grew up and went right, I've actually got to
pay I've got to pay for things here. And then
actually having my own children kids really focuses you. It's like, okay, cool.
(15:12):
Luckily I've by that point i'd made enough of a
sort of I had enough of a profile to be
able to actually say yes to things that I found
to be I was passionate about, you know, and I'd
never got into a situation I think where I was going, Well,
I'm going to do this, even though I find it echy,
because I just need to pay the rent, you know,
(15:32):
like I've always luckily gone what okay? Cool? Silo Theater.
Want me to do a Browll theater show. Keen Hodaki
want me to do a radio show where I just
play what I was brought up on. Great, I'm playing
a solo show where I'm playing in front of one
hundred and fifty people, but it's really intimate. But it's
(15:53):
also a real thrill to me to do Great. Next
day I'm playing She Had with ten thousand people in
front of me. I'm very fortunate to have this life
and actually be paid to do it because I'm pretty
much doing all these things that I do free.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
In a weird way, it's that, you know, it's making
that passion your job. Yes, yeah, I mean how much?
I mean, I guess you know, it's a question I asked,
and I'll ask it, but and it's pretty probably pretty
obvious with an artist or you know, but how much
is money ever a driver your output and what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's not. It's not a driver. I think it's it's
about learning how to value yourself. It's really important to
value yourself properly, you know, Like I think I used
to be such a people pleaser when I was younger.
It was like I'd undervalue myself. You know, someone wanted
me to do something, I'd be like, oh, I don't
want to offend them, so I'll just I'll short change myself.
(16:49):
Then it was like I met my wife. She's like,
what the hell, man, you're Johnny facking too good? You
should be asking for this. And it was like, okay,
I'll ask for it. And then it was like yes,
sweet airs, okay, cool, let's go, you know. And then
I realized, okay, right, You've got a value what you do,
and then when you turn up to do it, you
nail the shit out of it, you know. You I
never do anything half fast, whether it's doing voiceovers for ads,
(17:11):
whether it's doing anything, I'm always one hundred percent on
and giving it my best shot. That's it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean, other jobs, you know, I guess you can
structure a career once you're a certain level where you
can do jobs at a commercial and you just do
it because it's going to fund doing something that's completely noncommercial.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Sure, but even say doing voiceovers, I'm only doing voiceovers
for ads for things that I actually have trying to.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Think of what I've what I've heard you and I
can't remember.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But you know, like, I mean, honestly, like I am
in a very privileged position of saying being able to
say no to things that I don't feel and saying
yes to things that I do, you know, And I
know that that's not the case for everybody. And I
and I'm thankful every day I wake up.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And also I guess, I mean, I guess I need
to ask. She had still a loose concept. You can
see she had come back and had another.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Twobsolutely and it's like we've all got our own things.
So Tom not at all. Tom Tomking the drummer, you know,
founding member with me. He manages other bands. He was
always passionate about the business. That was something that I
was so glad I had him around me because he
actually thrilled at the business, whereas I found it a
(18:21):
little bit as a sensitive sort of creative I need
to be protected from it a little bit. I'm a
bit better now. I can actually I can interface with
the business world a lot easier than when I was younger.
But but having that, you know, passionate guy that was
passionate about that side of things around me, it was
a godsend, you know, And so he's made a living
(18:42):
out of that. But we all you know, I think
Phil is he the guitarist, he does he tour managers
bands because he loves touring, and he knows.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
All the absolutely and but when we come together, we
still nail it, you know, we nail it.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And we know that we've got a name of being
a great live act, and so we can never you know,
disappoint people and not disappoint ourselves, you know, so we
always take it very seriously when we're together.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, I mean, I'm jumping around to it here. But
one of the things I wanted to ask is, you know,
you were very metal at the start, right, and then
of course it evolves and changes, and it's sort of
sometimes some ways. That's a bit of an analogy for
how life can be, especially if you're from a sort
of working class background. I'm sort of similar sort of boat.
Was there a point at which you remember just going,
I'm going to not be constrained by that, you know,
(19:35):
like there's there's sometimes it can be a little bit suffocating.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
If yeah, without a doubt, I mean, I think shee
Hard wouldn't be a thing if we just made the
same record over and over again.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And there's a lot of people who'd like to just
how you make kills.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Your ash absolutely and you know what it's like if
we if we stuck to that, we would have got bored.
Our shows would have it would have been law of
diminishing returns. We wouldn't have been passionate about it. We
needed to push ourselves, think artists, and I should imagine
people who've creative in the business industry need to push
themselves and step out of their comfort zone so they
(20:09):
can even get bigger than what they were. You know,
it's so important to keep pushing yourself otherwise you become
complacent and you start phoning it in. As soon as
you start phoning in art or rock and roll, people
can feel it. You can feel it. I've got to
feel it, you know, Like, so how do I feel it?
(20:29):
By taking a path that I've never walked down before.
And you know Fish album. Yes, we went from selling
two nights out at the Auckland Town Hall to down
to half of Auckland Town Hall in the space of
release a bad album. But now what twenty years later,
the first song on that record is a New Zealand
rock standard home Again.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
You know, it kind of defines how we remember day
I stood how.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
To deal it lately. But at the time our fans
were really unhappy with us doing that. Yeah, it was
too poppy for this, but we needed to do that
because that's what we were feeling in our hearts. That's
the song we wanted to write.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
In hindsight, when you look back, it was still pretty solid.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Rock and roll, yeah, but at the time, after going
coming from Kiljoy, people were like, what is this pop? Yeah,
I'm not into this, you know, like and it took us,
you know, two years to get back onto you know,
doing the numbers that we were doing before. And then
but it broadened and it changed, you know, all of
a sudden. It went from a sort of ninety ninety
(21:31):
sort of ten split between mostly boys and girls to
fifty to fifty almost because we changed and all of
a sudden, the boys started behaving better, less fine, the
kids better to look at, and it was great. I
loved her, you know, do you remember.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I mean around that time of that she had and
the Fish album that that blew up right and suddenly
you're dealing with fame in a pretty small place. It
did it change things for you? I mean? And it's weird,
as fame without wealth often means that you're sort.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Of Yeah, I think I think people people sort of
take for you know, they forget, Yes, okay, Johnny's a
rock star, but he's a New Zealand rock star. It's
it's a scale thing, you know, like I amn, okay money,
you know, like I am not complaining at all, but
it's not like being being golden or platinum in New Zealand.
(22:20):
It's not like selling platinum in America or Germany or
stuff like that. So so there's got to be some
reality to this, to that. But yeah, I mean, my
job satisfaction is extremely high and we're doing great, you know, Like,
so I've got no complaints at all, you know, I
find the fame thing a little bit weird still, But
at the same time, if someone comes up to me
(22:41):
and says, hey, man, I saw you when I was
at Union Hamilton, and that show just blew my mind.
It's like, well, I always give people the time of
day because that's like, that's great, what a great thing,
what a great thing that happened.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I mean, well, it's a weird position you're in. I
get it a little bit with older white men who
read business, But for you, this is why I'm nervous
interviewing you where I wouldn't be, whether a Reserve bank
governor or something. It's because because you it feels like
I feel like I sort of know you, because your
voice show you know, and you said some of those lines.
You know, it's not the it's not the clocks back
(23:15):
for winter. It's the day of tiny try sticks in my.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Hair like that line. And I'm pretty pretty proud of
that one. Yeah, I don't know, it's it's yeah, I'm
always the thing is for me, I always go at
it like I just happen to have a job that
I love. But all it is is just a job
at the end of the day. And it's a really
great job that I love and I'm very fortunate, but
it's no more important than the guy that drives the
bus that gets me to the gig. It's just the same.
(23:42):
I was brought up by working class parents, so I've
always I always bat for the underdog, you know, like
and so I. And also because we were the same
four guys from when we're seventeen years at school. We've
seen each other's worst haircuts, We've seen each other's worst clothes,
fashion choices. So there's no we can't fool each other about.
We're bigger than what we actually are. We are who
(24:04):
we are. Everyone's egos are kept in check. And also
we're Kiwis, so our egos are naturally kicked in checks
because we're Kiwi's. You know, it's not cool to be
a rock star, you know, like, well, it's not cool
to flaunt.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
It's quite a balancing act.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
It's got to be humble, man, And I'm good with that,
you know, Like it's it's like I said, it's it's
a cool job, but it's no more important than any
other job, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Sure a bit of crack into some of our our
quip fire money sure questions. So one of them is
what's the poorest you've ever been?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I'd say borrowing money off the support act when we're
in New York on a bus and going I need
to borrow two bucks just so that I can eat
a piece of pizza and borrowing money off off the support.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
So what era would that have been?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
That would have be and kill joy?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, so really just really getting up there.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You're just like playing in front of nobody in Southern
States of America and then in New York and but
just just living it, you know, just having to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
And then when you finally got some money together, what
would be one of the most indulgent purchases you've ever
made or or where do you like to We would.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Just I think buying a house in Thomachi, Makoto nowadays
is pretty indulgent. And we've managed to do that. So
I'm really proud. We saved hard for fifteen years to
do that, and I'm really proud of me and my
wife because it's not easy, and I absolutely feel for
anybody who's doing it tough, you know, and because we're
(25:44):
not leaving living in very easy times financially.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Sure, do you do you buy a lotto tickets? And
do you still imagine winning lotto? And if so, you
know how much do you imagine winning.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well, part of my story is that I converted to Islam,
so we can't gamble, and so of you know, when
whenever we need to, you know, me and the family
need some money, we sort of have a joke about, oh,
when we win the halal, lot of rolling it, But
it's like we don't. We don't gamble. I never gambled though,
I mean, I think apart from if we ever went
(26:14):
to Vegas, I'd give myself two hundred and fifty bis
a second of blackjack table and I wouldn't I set
a rule. If I lose that money, I'm out. You know.
I never lost. I always walked out up, you know.
But yeah, I don't know. I think it was from
being a struggling artist for so many years that whatever
money I held had I held on type too. But
(26:38):
then meeting my wife, who is the daughter of a
UN diplomat. He's actually head economists, he was a head
economist at the Islamic Bank of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
When her so she knows how to organize the money.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
No she doesn't. Oh, well no not at all, because
he did pretty much everything for everybody. Yeah, and so
we've had to learn together and and you know what,
I think we're doing a great job considering neither of
us sort of were from that world, even though her
dad was. But he's now the advisor to the Kuwaiti
agricultur Cultural Ministry trying to divest from fossil fuels at
(27:14):
the moment, so that's his job. That's a big job.
So yeah, so it's pretty interesting marrying into that family
because yeah, I think I was a bit of an
outside context problem when he when my when my wife
turned up with a rock and roll star from New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's quite a shift. Does the Islamic thing
Does it change the way you look at money?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Absolutely, because we think of money as everything's a gift
from a loah. Everything's a gift from the universe, if
you want to put it that way. And when you die,
you're going to be asked, what did you do what
I gave What did you do with what I gave you?
So the idea is to pass that money on. When
I first met Dana, I was a staunch humanist atheist
(27:56):
that was like I was. I was like, talked a
good game about being generous, being kind. But because I
was a struggling artist. I held on tightly to any
money I ever got because I didn't have any faith
that I would ever get paid again, because I didn't
know if I would. But she would literally give her
last ten dollars to the person on the street who
needed it because it wasn't hers anyway, and she was
(28:16):
going to be asked that question when she dies. Wow.
So it's and you know what, without fail by the
end of the day she was getting comped in or
at some restaurant or some one to give it back.
It just comes back, and it's just going with the
flow of the universe, you know. Yeah, that's my attitude
towards money. It's like you give to people that are
in need. And also if you look at people rather
(28:37):
than in the West, where we're taught to look at
people who have more than us and always be on
the search for better car, better house, better neighborhood, better school,
you always got to be miserable. If you look the
other way and go, who is who needs something here?
Who is less than me? And you help them out,
you sleep like a baby because they're manifestations of us anyway,
you know. So that's how I look at it.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, absolutely, that's brilliant and a really interesting transformation for
a kid.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
From for sure. For sure.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
A bit of a lighter question, I guess, But because
it's money talks, I always like, especially you know anyone
musical do you have a favorite song about money? So
a song with the money lyric.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's money for Nothing, mate.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I always saying that's great until he starts singing the
riff's amazings are awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
No. I actually had to do it and the come
Together Die strates and I was like, do you really
have to give me that gig and that song because
I like diastrates but well, my favorite tunnel of love
in Romeo and Juliet. But but then getting inside it
and actually performing it live, it's a pretty rock and tune. Yeah,
there's a there's a live version from nearby Worth with
(29:45):
Eric Clapton playing the other guitar, and it's pretty cack.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's amazing and and actually kind of interesting lyrics.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
We better wrap this up shortly because I know you've
got to get downstairs and play some songs. But a
big one we ask is, as a few were Prime
Minister of the day, if we could magically make you
prime Minister for the Shay Is there something you would
like most like to change in New Zealand to try
and I guess deal with social inequality or deal with
some of the big issues out there. It's a huge question.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I know it's a it's a big question. I think
our society undervalues teachers, it undervalues people in service industry,
it undervalues people who work in hospitals and health. I
would try and even up what they get paid. I
think we on a whole, we tend to financially, we
(30:38):
tend to reward ruthlessness rather than a charity and generosity.
So I would turn that on its head. What are
the policies that make that happen? Who knows. I've had
conversations where people go, oh, you should be into politics.
It's like, no, man, what's great about being an artist
is you get to sit outside and you and you're
(30:58):
not you know, I can say things without having to
go Is this going to piss off someone from my team?
You know? And I do understand you need to be
a team when you're working in party politics. But I
think I like the freedom afforded me by being an artist.
Because our plays a role in culture and society because
we get to sort of sit outside and go actually
that's not fair and that's not right, you know, so,
(31:20):
but we don't have to have the argument with you know.
So it's an interesting thing. What would I change? Yeah,
I think yeah, valuing valuing our teachers and our people
in health. I think that would be good. First up,
making sure that we honor the Treaty of w Tongue
as well, because it is a joint thing. It's it's
for it's not just for Maori, it's for Puckyhart as well.
(31:42):
I think that would be great. And being really honest
about our history. That would be very important to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Sure. Now hey, look that's brilliant, John. I know we're
going to let you go. Can I just just just firstly,
good well, lastly, good luck with this tour and the
and the album. Right, so, Last of the Lonely Gods
early October October eleventh, October eleventh, is that when the
album comes out.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
It's when the album comes out, now, when you hit
the road. Yeah, very much. Yeah, it's the best record
I think I've made for ages. So it's good.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, that is great, Thanks for being here, and good
luck with it all. Cheers, John, Thank you thanks for
listening to this episode of Money Talks. If you want
to get in touch, drop me a line at Liam
dot Dan at inzme dot co dot nz and you
can read more from me at inzidherld dot co dot nz.
Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills and sound engineer Liam McDonald.
(32:35):
Follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts,
with new episodes available every Thursday.
Madam again. Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald's Business
editor at Large and welcome to this episode of Money Talks.
This is a podcast about money, but we're not going
to tell you how to get rich, and we're not
going to try and pick the next interest rate move.
In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders
(00:24):
about how money has shaped their lives and what they've
learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by
singer songwriter and she had frontman John too Good Cura John.
Welcome to Money.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Talks, Cureda. How are you good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thanks, I'm excited to have you here and excited to
hear you're about to go on tour again across the
country and first solo album. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It is the first solo album and which is weird
after thirty three years in the industry. But it just
it was circumstance, covid Lockdown's lots of personal family carnage,
lost my mum, lost my brother in law. Yeah, so
I just needed to I needed some gentle music, so
I picked up my accous guitar and started writing. That
was my way, like therapy. It was total therapy and
(01:08):
you know what it's like out of pain. You know,
I think some of the best words I've ever done,
because it's like I had to be brutally honest with myself,
you know. And I'm really proud of this record. It's
a beautiful thing. I mean, I made it to sort
of hold me, you know. It was supposed to be
comforting to me, and it seems to. When I play
(01:28):
the stuff live, there's always someone that comes up and says, well,
that happened to me, you know, And yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I mean we've been privileged enough to ends you me
to hear a couple of the songs and advance and
it's pretty heavy stuff like you're talking about, but it
doesn't come across that way musically. It's quite of uplifting.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, well, it is. It's supposed to be the way through.
It's a way through. It's a way through. I mean,
it's it's just life, you know. I mean I think,
you know, my mum would prefer to have it that
way than losing her children rather. You know, that's the
way of the world. If you stick around long enough
and to lose someone that you love, you know, but
Noine sort of prepares you for that. I think in
(02:04):
the West we sort of we're taught to sort of
live like we're always going to be here, and then
we're so shocked and surprised when someone dies. Yeah, and
it's like yeah, so I think, yeah, it's good to
break the stigma of that. I mean, it's just part
of life, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah. Well, look, let's jump into some of the money
talks questions, and some of that will be family and
growing up and things. You know, if we went right back,
do you what are your first memories of money in
your life, holding it in your hand, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we were I was basically brought
up by two British immigrants, ten pound poms, you know,
both given ten pounds to come and start a new
life on the other side of the planet. Dad was
a cabinetmaker, Mum was a receptionist at State Insurance. We
didn't have much growing up. Yeah, it was Wellington, right, Wellington.
(02:54):
All the people I grew up calling auntie and uncle
were all just the people that were on the boats
with my parents. Son't wasn't until I was seven and
we went back to London to before I met real
blood relatives or anything like that, so it was I
suppose an immigrant experience, British immigrant experience. I didn't realize
that we weren't very rich until I sort of went
(03:15):
to high school and started hanging out with people that
had more money than me, and then went, oh, okay, right,
I mean I remember some of the happiest memories from
childhood was like my parents to make it okay for
the kids that we didn't have much. We'd sit around
a gas heater with white bread on a big fork
and toast the toast the bread. You know. It was
(03:35):
like exciting, man, it was like and it was exciting.
It was like, yeah, I get to cook my own food.
But it was just one slice of bread. So yeah,
it didn't really have much going up. Yeah did you
get pocket money? Yeah? Once, yeah, I think once once
we started. Yeah, we did. Actually, we all took We
had a sort of a chart. You know. I had
(03:56):
an older brother and sister, so you know, someone was drying,
someone was washing, someone was looking after the car, and
you know the lawns and stuff, and yeah, yeah, I
used to do that for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah. One of the things that comes through all the
people I've talked on this podcast is that new Zealand
in those days. You know, there wasn't such a huge disparit.
You know, if you didn't have much money in the family,
the things that people were doing with money, there wasn't
as much going on, was it.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
No, not really. I never felt we were lacking anything like.
It was very loving, supportive family life and all my
friends who were you know. I went to Island Bay
Primary School in Wellington and everyone was from everywhere, you know,
like and went to a public school. It was great.
I loved it. I love my childhood in Island Bay.
(04:41):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean at school where it was music a
thing right off the bat.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Music was a thing even back in the family home.
Like my two earliest memories is one was the Lolli
jar because I really liked sugar. My parents loliger and
then the other one was my parents all in one
record player and had a speaker built into it, and
I used to just watch the Beatles Hard Day's Night
go around and be fascinated by this alchemy of putting
(05:06):
a needle down on a bit of plastic that was
going around and then the sound would be generated. And
I was like how it was alchemy, And I wanted
to know, how do you do that? What is the
process that they got there?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
The Beatles would have been huge, I guess apparance, but
what were the other bands that sort of influenced those early.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Early Okay, so early on I had an older brother
and sister. I think I mentioned I was very lucky
to have that because they'd go out and make all
those fashion mistakes, and some of those were great ideas,
you know. So I think with my brother, he introduced
me to things like the Jam I really liked, you
know that that's entertainment and all that sort of sort
(05:45):
of stuff. And my sister was more punk, so Stiff
Little Fingers, sex Pistols, Public Image Limited. She told me
when I was getting older, she said, just before I
hit high school, she said, you begin to heavy metal,
old disowner. So I think, because I've got a rebellious spirit,
I purposely went out and found a heavy metal record
(06:06):
and got into it. So yeah, but growing up, I
think my first album that I bought was Bob Marley Legend,
which I still listened to to this day. It's a
fantastic record. A Human League Dare, I think was my
second record, so it's pretty eclectic yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I mean there's a classic key we sort of vibe
around music at that age is and I mean you
discover led.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Zeppelin all that type of stuff totally.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I know that eighties, you know, it was all got
a bit glam for a while and you had to
sort of look back a bit to find the real metal.
I suppose.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I think leed Zeppelin was one of those ones
that where they metal. It was hard rock, you know,
but that it was one of those bands that if
you got it, you could go for a deep dive
into that band and all the different phases that they had.
My favorite is Houses of the Whole because it's got,
like you know, it's just got every single song on
(06:59):
that records, great danced, crunge, no quarter, no quarters.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Anyway. I have to catch myself here and not go
too deep and discussing ze Okay, so you're at school,
you know what about Korea was? You know, like, was
music a career option early on?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Originally I was the captain of the Wellington Primary School's
cricket team, So so I was being sort of you know,
conditioned to think that maybe I had a career in cricket.
ID that you made representative level. I was the captain
of the team and in my team was Mark Ellis,
you know, Charlie's juice guy and not an All Black,
(07:40):
and also Danny Himona was my opening bowler and my
best mate. And he ended up being another musician called
damn Native Guy. But we used to play against. You know,
Chris Ken's was the captain of the cantry boys around you.
He never got me out. I was scared shitless of
a no because he was he was like one of
those guys that school that was shaving before everybody else.
(08:02):
You know. I was like, there's no way that that
guy's thirteen, but he was apparently he was frightening.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Do you a bowler a batsman?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I was an all rounder, so yeah, so I was
a good swing bowler and number three batsman. But around
that time I met Tom Larkin, the drummer of Shee Had,
and he said he played guitar, because I had had
guitar lessons from seven till eleven, and he said, join
my band I want to and gave me a copy
(08:30):
of a Cdc'shigway to Hell and Metallica's Ride the Lightning
and said I want a band like this, And I
was like, I've never touched an electric guitar. I haven't
even been in a room with an electric guitar. And
he said it's easy, and so he took me into Wellington.
I went to Wellington High School and we'd sort of
basically once we discovered the music room with all the
band gear, that's where we spent our whole high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(08:51):
And then my parents were really disappointed at first because
they really wanted me to be a black camp. But
then once they saw me when a music award on
Teley next to Coronation Street, they were and they became
the biggest supporters of GHAT.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
But there's a few years in between, right, so so
it must have been you know, I guess as parents,
they're probably just worried about about the stability of a
career in music. It can be a tough road.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It is most definitely a tough road. It's not it's
not for the slight of heart. You've got to really
believe in yourself and you've got to really want to
do it.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Said, making that leap between going oh this is great fun,
I'm in a band, and it's a it's a you know,
something we're doing for a laugh and actually going are
we going to try and take this yes?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And go yeah. Well so luckily I met like minded,
ambitious young men at high school that were willing to
take that journey with me. And we're just as driven,
if not more so, than I was. So I was
surrounded by a good team and you need that because
it's a team effort. And we always set off sites
(09:56):
much further afield than just New Zealand. We were like,
how does Metallica sound like it does? How does you
know led Zeppelins sound like they do? We were never
thinking about just the borders of New Zealand. We're thinking
about how does an international how do we sound like
an international band? How do we sound that huge sound
that we love? And so we just went on a
journey to try and find that the answers to those questions,
(10:19):
you know, And basically it comes down to putting in
the hours and rehearsing and playing shows and never taking
no for an answer. Being extremely a career focused.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
But when you say career, I mean that's absolutely focused
on the music, right, But did you think about the
business side much in those days? You know, how you
could make a living?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
At first, we knew that it was going to be tough,
you know, we knew that we were going to be
earning practically less than the doll But that day that
we did actually give our jobs away and went, okay,
we've got a record deal in Germany. It might might
not be the best thing, but it's still a record deal.
We were like, we are prepared to eat rubbish and
do what we need to do to get to that point.
(11:03):
And then it was like, you know, you know, ten
years of hard grind, just making enough money to feed
ourselves and travel to America, then travel to Europe, then
to Australia and just going never taking no for an answer,
and then finally publishing companies going yeah, we want what
(11:23):
you've got his big advance.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Because it was still fairly traditional, you know, in those days,
it was almost the way it had been for twenty
to thirty years in terms of how bands work. Do
you look at it now, I mean, how does it
compare now? But also when you look at young bands
the way that they're looking at Korea now, it's very different, right.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, it's really it's different on so many levels. It's
different on the fact, even right down to the fundamentals
of like having to learn how to play your instrument.
Nowadays you've got the resource of YouTube, which has got
all the best guitarists in the world. This is how
you play this. We did have that resource. We had
(12:01):
to hunt down the local guitar tutor who might not
be into the music that you like. But that's the
only person I could find. So there's a different skill
set going on. If someone's keen and passionate, they can
become very very good, really young, and you need to
be good young to compete basically, And so there's that.
(12:21):
Then there's also direct lines of communication between you and
your audience, which we didn't have, like the Internet, social media,
blah blah blah. I'm not very good with that because
I'm not part of that generation. I'm still of the
generation that I liked my rock stars to be mysterious,
like Prince. You know, I didn't want to know what
Prince was eating for dinner. I wanted to I just
(12:43):
wanted to be him, you know, like because he was
you know, he slept with Apollonia, which was really cool,
you know, and I liked that. I like that mystery,
and I'm quite a private person, so I'm still I
think a little bit like that, which is probably business
wise to my detriment.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean, it feels like young kids, you know, they're
really got a hustle now. They sell their own T
shirts and.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
They've bought a brand themselves. Basically, they've got to think
of themselves as a brand rather than as a person.
And that's people. There's some kids are so good at it.
But that's just the world that they're we're in, and
and all power to them. But I actually really love
going home after playing a show and being private. Yeah,
I actually really appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You know, was there a point when the success started
to come with you thought, gee, there is some money here.
I need to think about this in a sort of
a practical way, you know, that personal finance stuff, in
vesting in a house.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Or absolutely, and I did do that, you know, first
big publishing payout we got. I that was used as
deposit on a house in Brooklyn and Wellington in my
first marriage, and yeah, that got us into the onto
the property letter, you know, and it was like after
years of renting or sleeping on couches, you know, pretty much,
(14:04):
you know, and that was from a publishing deal. Yeah,
and I mean, I've got to say, it wasn't until
I actually got out of that first marriage and had
to reassess my whole life that I actually worked out
where my income streams were, where I made money, what
I didn't even know what I was earning. Yeah, it
(14:24):
must have been.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And you hear there's a lot of bands, it just
must be like a will wind for a while minutes
all on them.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Because you're not late nineties early okay. So I was
the guy in the band that was the creative right,
I was the guy that was writing the words, writing
the songs, and you know, behaving like a performing demon
on stage, making sure that everyone walked out of that
venue going that was the best rock and roll band
I've seen. That was my That was the eyes on
(14:52):
the prize. I wasn't even looking at my bank account,
you know. I was just going, as long as people
want to see us, I'm happy. And it wasn't until
I grew up and went right, I've actually got to
pay I've got to pay for things here. And then
actually having my own children kids really focuses you. It's like, okay, cool.
(15:12):
Luckily I've by that point i'd made enough of a
sort of I had enough of a profile to be
able to actually say yes to things that I found
to be I was passionate about, you know, and I'd
never got into a situation I think where I was going, Well,
I'm going to do this, even though I find it echy,
because I just need to pay the rent, you know,
(15:32):
like I've always luckily gone what okay? Cool? Silo Theater.
Want me to do a Browll theater show. Keen Hodaki
want me to do a radio show where I just
play what I was brought up on. Great, I'm playing
a solo show where I'm playing in front of one
hundred and fifty people, but it's really intimate. But it's
(15:53):
also a real thrill to me to do Great. Next
day I'm playing She Had with ten thousand people in
front of me. I'm very fortunate to have this life
and actually be paid to do it because I'm pretty
much doing all these things that I do free.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
In a weird way, it's that, you know, it's making
that passion your job. Yes, yeah, I mean how much?
I mean, I guess you know, it's a question I asked,
and I'll ask it, but and it's pretty probably pretty
obvious with an artist or you know, but how much
is money ever a driver your output and what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's not. It's not a driver. I think it's it's
about learning how to value yourself. It's really important to
value yourself properly, you know, Like I think I used
to be such a people pleaser when I was younger.
It was like I'd undervalue myself. You know, someone wanted
me to do something, I'd be like, oh, I don't
want to offend them, so I'll just I'll short change myself.
(16:49):
Then it was like I met my wife. She's like,
what the hell, man, you're Johnny facking too good? You
should be asking for this. And it was like, okay,
I'll ask for it. And then it was like yes,
sweet airs, okay, cool, let's go, you know. And then
I realized, okay, right, You've got a value what you do,
and then when you turn up to do it, you
nail the shit out of it, you know. You I
never do anything half fast, whether it's doing voiceovers for ads,
(17:11):
whether it's doing anything, I'm always one hundred percent on
and giving it my best shot. That's it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean, other jobs, you know, I guess you can
structure a career once you're a certain level where you
can do jobs at a commercial and you just do
it because it's going to fund doing something that's completely noncommercial.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Sure, but even say doing voiceovers, I'm only doing voiceovers
for ads for things that I actually have trying to.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Think of what I've what I've heard you and I
can't remember.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But you know, like, I mean, honestly, like I am
in a very privileged position of saying being able to
say no to things that I don't feel and saying
yes to things that I do, you know, And I
know that that's not the case for everybody. And I
and I'm thankful every day I wake up.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And also I guess, I mean, I guess I need
to ask. She had still a loose concept. You can
see she had come back and had another.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Twobsolutely and it's like we've all got our own things.
So Tom not at all. Tom Tomking the drummer, you know,
founding member with me. He manages other bands. He was
always passionate about the business. That was something that I
was so glad I had him around me because he
actually thrilled at the business, whereas I found it a
(18:21):
little bit as a sensitive sort of creative I need
to be protected from it a little bit. I'm a
bit better now. I can actually I can interface with
the business world a lot easier than when I was younger.
But but having that, you know, passionate guy that was
passionate about that side of things around me, it was
a godsend, you know, And so he's made a living
(18:42):
out of that. But we all you know, I think
Phil is he the guitarist, he does he tour managers
bands because he loves touring, and he knows.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
All the absolutely and but when we come together, we
still nail it, you know, we nail it.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And we know that we've got a name of being
a great live act, and so we can never you know,
disappoint people and not disappoint ourselves, you know, so we
always take it very seriously when we're together.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, I mean, I'm jumping around to it here. But
one of the things I wanted to ask is, you know,
you were very metal at the start, right, and then
of course it evolves and changes, and it's sort of
sometimes some ways. That's a bit of an analogy for
how life can be, especially if you're from a sort
of working class background. I'm sort of similar sort of boat.
Was there a point at which you remember just going,
I'm going to not be constrained by that, you know,
(19:35):
like there's there's sometimes it can be a little bit suffocating.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
If yeah, without a doubt, I mean, I think shee
Hard wouldn't be a thing if we just made the
same record over and over again.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And there's a lot of people who'd like to just
how you make kills.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Your ash absolutely and you know what it's like if
we if we stuck to that, we would have got bored.
Our shows would have it would have been law of
diminishing returns. We wouldn't have been passionate about it. We
needed to push ourselves, think artists, and I should imagine
people who've creative in the business industry need to push
themselves and step out of their comfort zone so they
(20:09):
can even get bigger than what they were. You know,
it's so important to keep pushing yourself otherwise you become
complacent and you start phoning it in. As soon as
you start phoning in art or rock and roll, people
can feel it. You can feel it. I've got to
feel it, you know, Like, so how do I feel it?
(20:29):
By taking a path that I've never walked down before.
And you know Fish album. Yes, we went from selling
two nights out at the Auckland Town Hall to down
to half of Auckland Town Hall in the space of
release a bad album. But now what twenty years later,
the first song on that record is a New Zealand
rock standard home Again.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
You know, it kind of defines how we remember day
I stood how.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
To deal it lately. But at the time our fans
were really unhappy with us doing that. Yeah, it was
too poppy for this, but we needed to do that
because that's what we were feeling in our hearts. That's
the song we wanted to write.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
In hindsight, when you look back, it was still pretty solid.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Rock and roll, yeah, but at the time, after going
coming from Kiljoy, people were like, what is this pop? Yeah,
I'm not into this, you know, like and it took us,
you know, two years to get back onto you know,
doing the numbers that we were doing before. And then
but it broadened and it changed, you know, all of
a sudden. It went from a sort of ninety ninety
(21:31):
sort of ten split between mostly boys and girls to
fifty to fifty almost because we changed and all of
a sudden, the boys started behaving better, less fine, the
kids better to look at, and it was great. I
loved her, you know, do you remember.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I mean around that time of that she had and
the Fish album that that blew up right and suddenly
you're dealing with fame in a pretty small place. It
did it change things for you? I mean? And it's weird,
as fame without wealth often means that you're sort.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Of Yeah, I think I think people people sort of
take for you know, they forget, Yes, okay, Johnny's a
rock star, but he's a New Zealand rock star. It's
it's a scale thing, you know, like I amn, okay money,
you know, like I am not complaining at all, but
it's not like being being golden or platinum in New Zealand.
(22:20):
It's not like selling platinum in America or Germany or
stuff like that. So so there's got to be some
reality to this, to that. But yeah, I mean, my
job satisfaction is extremely high and we're doing great, you know, Like,
so I've got no complaints at all, you know, I
find the fame thing a little bit weird still, But
at the same time, if someone comes up to me
(22:41):
and says, hey, man, I saw you when I was
at Union Hamilton, and that show just blew my mind.
It's like, well, I always give people the time of
day because that's like, that's great, what a great thing,
what a great thing that happened.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I mean, well, it's a weird position you're in. I
get it a little bit with older white men who
read business, But for you, this is why I'm nervous
interviewing you where I wouldn't be, whether a Reserve bank
governor or something. It's because because you it feels like
I feel like I sort of know you, because your
voice show you know, and you said some of those lines.
You know, it's not the it's not the clocks back
(23:15):
for winter. It's the day of tiny try sticks in my.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Hair like that line. And I'm pretty pretty proud of
that one. Yeah, I don't know, it's it's yeah, I'm
always the thing is for me, I always go at
it like I just happen to have a job that
I love. But all it is is just a job
at the end of the day. And it's a really
great job that I love and I'm very fortunate, but
it's no more important than the guy that drives the
bus that gets me to the gig. It's just the same.
(23:42):
I was brought up by working class parents, so I've
always I always bat for the underdog, you know, like
and so I. And also because we were the same
four guys from when we're seventeen years at school. We've
seen each other's worst haircuts, We've seen each other's worst clothes,
fashion choices. So there's no we can't fool each other about.
We're bigger than what we actually are. We are who
(24:04):
we are. Everyone's egos are kept in check. And also
we're Kiwis, so our egos are naturally kicked in checks
because we're Kiwi's. You know, it's not cool to be
a rock star, you know, like, well, it's not cool
to flaunt.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
It's quite a balancing act.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
It's got to be humble, man, And I'm good with that,
you know, Like it's it's like I said, it's it's
a cool job, but it's no more important than any
other job, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Sure a bit of crack into some of our our
quip fire money sure questions. So one of them is
what's the poorest you've ever been?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I'd say borrowing money off the support act when we're
in New York on a bus and going I need
to borrow two bucks just so that I can eat
a piece of pizza and borrowing money off off the support.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
So what era would that have been?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
That would have be and kill joy?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, so really just really getting up there.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You're just like playing in front of nobody in Southern
States of America and then in New York and but
just just living it, you know, just having to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
And then when you finally got some money together, what
would be one of the most indulgent purchases you've ever
made or or where do you like to We would.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Just I think buying a house in Thomachi, Makoto nowadays
is pretty indulgent. And we've managed to do that. So
I'm really proud. We saved hard for fifteen years to
do that, and I'm really proud of me and my
wife because it's not easy, and I absolutely feel for
anybody who's doing it tough, you know, and because we're
(25:44):
not leaving living in very easy times financially.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Sure, do you do you buy a lotto tickets? And
do you still imagine winning lotto? And if so, you
know how much do you imagine winning.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well, part of my story is that I converted to Islam,
so we can't gamble, and so of you know, when
whenever we need to, you know, me and the family
need some money, we sort of have a joke about, oh,
when we win the halal, lot of rolling it, But
it's like we don't. We don't gamble. I never gambled though,
I mean, I think apart from if we ever went
(26:14):
to Vegas, I'd give myself two hundred and fifty bis
a second of blackjack table and I wouldn't I set
a rule. If I lose that money, I'm out. You know.
I never lost. I always walked out up, you know.
But yeah, I don't know. I think it was from
being a struggling artist for so many years that whatever
money I held had I held on type too. But
(26:38):
then meeting my wife, who is the daughter of a
UN diplomat. He's actually head economists, he was a head
economist at the Islamic Bank of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
When her so she knows how to organize the money.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
No she doesn't. Oh, well no not at all, because
he did pretty much everything for everybody. Yeah, and so
we've had to learn together and and you know what,
I think we're doing a great job considering neither of
us sort of were from that world, even though her
dad was. But he's now the advisor to the Kuwaiti
agricultur Cultural Ministry trying to divest from fossil fuels at
(27:14):
the moment, so that's his job. That's a big job.
So yeah, so it's pretty interesting marrying into that family
because yeah, I think I was a bit of an
outside context problem when he when my when my wife
turned up with a rock and roll star from New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's quite a shift. Does the Islamic thing
Does it change the way you look at money?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Absolutely, because we think of money as everything's a gift
from a loah. Everything's a gift from the universe, if
you want to put it that way. And when you die,
you're going to be asked, what did you do what
I gave What did you do with what I gave you?
So the idea is to pass that money on. When
I first met Dana, I was a staunch humanist atheist
(27:56):
that was like I was. I was like, talked a
good game about being generous, being kind. But because I
was a struggling artist. I held on tightly to any
money I ever got because I didn't have any faith
that I would ever get paid again, because I didn't
know if I would. But she would literally give her
last ten dollars to the person on the street who
needed it because it wasn't hers anyway, and she was
(28:16):
going to be asked that question when she dies. Wow.
So it's and you know what, without fail by the
end of the day she was getting comped in or
at some restaurant or some one to give it back.
It just comes back, and it's just going with the
flow of the universe, you know. Yeah, that's my attitude
towards money. It's like you give to people that are
in need. And also if you look at people rather
(28:37):
than in the West, where we're taught to look at
people who have more than us and always be on
the search for better car, better house, better neighborhood, better school,
you always got to be miserable. If you look the
other way and go, who is who needs something here?
Who is less than me? And you help them out,
you sleep like a baby because they're manifestations of us anyway,
you know. So that's how I look at it.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, absolutely, that's brilliant and a really interesting transformation for
a kid.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
From for sure. For sure.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
A bit of a lighter question, I guess, But because
it's money talks, I always like, especially you know anyone
musical do you have a favorite song about money? So
a song with the money lyric.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's money for Nothing, mate.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I always saying that's great until he starts singing the
riff's amazings are awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
No. I actually had to do it and the come
Together Die strates and I was like, do you really
have to give me that gig and that song because
I like diastrates but well, my favorite tunnel of love
in Romeo and Juliet. But but then getting inside it
and actually performing it live, it's a pretty rock and tune. Yeah,
there's a there's a live version from nearby Worth with
(29:45):
Eric Clapton playing the other guitar, and it's pretty cack.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
It's amazing and and actually kind of interesting lyrics.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
We better wrap this up shortly because I know you've
got to get downstairs and play some songs. But a
big one we ask is, as a few were Prime
Minister of the day, if we could magically make you
prime Minister for the Shay Is there something you would
like most like to change in New Zealand to try
and I guess deal with social inequality or deal with
some of the big issues out there. It's a huge question.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I know it's a it's a big question. I think
our society undervalues teachers, it undervalues people in service industry,
it undervalues people who work in hospitals and health. I
would try and even up what they get paid. I
think we on a whole, we tend to financially, we
(30:38):
tend to reward ruthlessness rather than a charity and generosity.
So I would turn that on its head. What are
the policies that make that happen? Who knows. I've had
conversations where people go, oh, you should be into politics.
It's like, no, man, what's great about being an artist
is you get to sit outside and you and you're
(30:58):
not you know, I can say things without having to
go Is this going to piss off someone from my team?
You know? And I do understand you need to be
a team when you're working in party politics. But I
think I like the freedom afforded me by being an artist.
Because our plays a role in culture and society because
we get to sort of sit outside and go actually
that's not fair and that's not right, you know, so,
(31:20):
but we don't have to have the argument with you know.
So it's an interesting thing. What would I change? Yeah,
I think yeah, valuing valuing our teachers and our people
in health. I think that would be good. First up,
making sure that we honor the Treaty of w Tongue
as well, because it is a joint thing. It's it's
for it's not just for Maori, it's for Puckyhart as well.
(31:42):
I think that would be great. And being really honest
about our history. That would be very important to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Sure. Now hey, look that's brilliant, John. I know we're
going to let you go. Can I just just just firstly,
good well, lastly, good luck with this tour and the
and the album. Right, so, Last of the Lonely Gods
early October October eleventh, October eleventh, is that when the
album comes out.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
It's when the album comes out, now, when you hit
the road. Yeah, very much. Yeah, it's the best record
I think I've made for ages. So it's good.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, that is great, Thanks for being here, and good
luck with it all. Cheers, John, Thank you thanks for
listening to this episode of Money Talks. If you want
to get in touch, drop me a line at Liam
dot Dan at inzme dot co dot nz and you
can read more from me at inzidherld dot co dot nz.
Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills and sound engineer Liam McDonald.
(32:35):
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