June 14, 2024 • 36 mins
It's a little over six months since the 54th New Zealand Parliament was sworn in, and there have been plenty of highs and lows from the different parties. So which MPs across the House have been performing the best? This week, Thomas is joined by Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls to discuss the best MPs from National, Labour, the Greens, ACT, NZ First and Te Pāti Māori.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to on the Tiles, the New Zealand
Heralds politics podcast. I'm your host Thomas Cocklin, the DPD
political editor of The Herald, and joining me today for
a long delayed podcast through long delayed as news tours politically.
That to Jason Wilf, Jason kia oh.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Kanetchiwa to you two.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
You're off to Japan.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I am off to Japan this week.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I am, yes, leaving on very early Sunday morning on
the Defense Force plane.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
If it decides to take off, I will say that
it did take.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Off when we're in Fiji and New A last week,
and I've taken it to Japan before, so it's good.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I think it's going to be okay, hope, Well, I
my fingers crossed for you and the giant Q for it. Oh.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I don't know if we're going to see them really yep.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I got from.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
The Prem's office the only time that we would see them.
We're actually leaving a little bit early. It's from some
sort of food and beverage thing and we're leaving media
or leaving just before that gets there, so you might
be out of luck.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Maybe that's that's probably worth a couple of points in
the pills.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's the only reason I'm going to well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
For joining us.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The only the only podcast recorded entirely from Parliament itself. Newsrooms,
politics podcasts are recorded here, but but I think it
comes in from Auckland. So there's a point of difference.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And that's what that's what people want, right, authenticity exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's you know, we trade deals. So we our plan
for this. We were going to do this a few
weeks ago, but I was ill. There's been a lot
of sickness going around. I'm about ready for a lockdown.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I have to say, would I'd be quite keen. I
could do a little level four sneak level.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
What's what's a lockdown? Between friends?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Little? A little week of live before?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, lovely, although it would in test from being able
to say this was the only podcast recorded entirely from
we We we planned to do this. We've got to
it's six months basically since since the government has formed,
Parliament returned, and we we want to look through MPs
who we think have done done well.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
What's what's the shape of the new parliament?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You know, we've been talking a lot, there's been a
lot of commentary about who's doing well? Who is the
government forming well? Is the opposition for performing well? You know,
we want to make it personal. And some MP's are
really who really equipped themselves.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
And I do know knowing MPs, that all one hundred
and twenty three of them are listening to this to
hear if their name is going to be mentioned. So
if you're listening to this, MPs, which I know you are,
wait with baited breath to see if Thomas and I
think that you're one of the goodes, I.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Would I would say that I in that in that spirit,
I think that the the A lot of this, I
think is issues based. I think some of the MP's
who really succeeded have succeeded because the particular issue has
come up. And I think that some of the MP's
who you know, it's sort of like that the dogs
that didn't bark because the particular issue has has not
(02:43):
you know, and are on it.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I saw on it.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'll actually this seems kind of mean because it makes
it sound like the MP is only good because their
issue has jumped up. There's no way of being nice.
I'm I'm going to I'm going to start with one
of mine. I think Aischaviro was was was one of my.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
My top piece.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
She was on my list as well.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, and I so, I mean this isn't just because
her particular issues has cropped up, but I think she
was probably first out of the box. I think people
had expected her, you know, gone straight into cabinet to
kind of failed to fire well just because of Vanish
into the mid bench after government, because you know, I
(03:22):
should only have one term. Obviously, she's the very longesting
the Labor Party. Going back to student politics new Crucipins,
I think.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Which is very unusual for a sitting member of the
Labor Party to be in student politics, isn't it. Thomas rare,
very very rare, very rare.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But I sort of thought, like that smoking policy pretty
undefendable apart from the law and order stuff, which then
the data around it's really bit ruby. So I think
she the way she absolutely prosecuted that gave Shane Ridleti
nightmare as you know, quickly delegated Stella. Yeah, you know,
it was just it was within a few weeks of
the government being formed, all those coalition agreements being signed.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
She was at it.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
She was on it, and I think What is made
it a lot easier for her is that she probably
sees a lot of herself in Casey Costello, who was
also a completely new member of Parliament who's coming into cabinet,
so she'll be she'll know sitting there in the House
what it feels like to be new into cabinet having
to defend government policies that you might not be one
hundred percent across. And she knows exactly how to make
(04:19):
her squirm. And that's what we've seen her doing, and
she's been ruthless about it. There's no kindness in Aishaverrol's approach,
and nor should there be.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You know, although I was around February when those guys
and expir stories were coming out of you know what
what Casey Costella had recommended, it had been advised on
whether she'd done this or all that. I think it
was the around the cigarette I mean, part of this
is the sort of Casey Costello's because it wasn't just
rolling back of the smoke free policy. It was the
decision to at least look at a different form at
(04:48):
a different level of excize and what what she'd ask
for advice on. So there were multiple issues at play
and and and viewer was sort of on top of
all of them. So I think I think, I think
points there she would do this by parties.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I'm as in, like, stay in labor for now, for now, Okay,
you go for one. I've got a not.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
An unconventional one. I think people that follow politics would
be thinking this as well. But I don't know Williams.
And I'll tell you why she isn't. She's not one
of the issues based that you talked about. She I
can't even I can't even tell you what her portfolios are,
if I'm honest. She's a relatively new MP. She came
here in twenty seventeen. I think of what was it,
twenty twenty, twenty.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Twenty was it? So she's still relatively new.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I have a lot of classes. Twenty twenty twenty was
a good year.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah. But what she does well and
it's she's good in the House and not sort of
question time house. She's good at the old filibustering, and
she's good at Committee of the whole House. She's very
good in select committees.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
And you can see the lawyer in her coming out
as she prosecutes things really well and what she does
exceedingly well is a point of annoyance for me as
a journalist, but it's a point of pride for MP's
is when it's in Committee of the Whole House and
when they are filibus. String uses a particular skill in
drawing out a question and the speaker will very quickly
(06:11):
come down on you if you're doing a sermon rather
than a question, and I think she does that very well.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And she's one of the.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
People that's exactly where the line.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Exactly where the line is. Every time I look up
to my TV screen when it's Committee of the Whole
seems to always be at Anna.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, I actually and answered, this is my people listening
to this basically during when the house is sitting during
question time, most journalists will be in the prist gallery
actually watching it in person. But after question time, like
most MPs will be back to our offices and put
the TV on and watch it whilst what's working. And
(06:45):
you're right when I whenever I look over my shoulder
and see he's speaking, Adam Williams is invariably like there.
She's part of the whips team for Labor. I've actually
put all the whips for Labor up, so Tanguay, Tikitty
and Camilla Ballech as well. I think the whipping team
in Labor has because obviously, like you know, history would
would suggest that when you go to opposition, it's a bit.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Of a tough job to be a whip.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Jamie Ross was a famously whip and very famously and
and and and you know, well but but I think, yeah,
Adam has done a really good job that I first
sort of thought, you know, there's some really good work
going on last at the end of last year, the
December urgency where government was getting through a few hundred
(07:31):
day playing things before the end of the year, I
think was the repeal of the clean car discount and
the repeal of their pay agreements, and Adam and Williams
was just smashing it. And I you know, she kind
of in coming in twenty twenty and that massive intake,
she was quite highly people want to watch. Obviously that
there was an issue around Lewisa wall and and and that.
But but that kind of made a one to watch
(07:52):
because you think, well, who's the Labor Party, you know,
who's so big that that the Labor Party would risk
a massive fight in that seat too and keep them
in and and and clearly this is this is the person.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
But she was sort of.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Lost, I thought, and in that mess of intake and
not being in the government obviously first hmm p.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But but yeah, pretty really work.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I hear the last December and then during the budget period,
and I've put all the whips on there for that reason.
I think Tongue was a kidding and Camilla Bellich possibly
not firing in portfolio areas.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I had done a column earlier in this year about
ones to watch within Labor and I did put tonguey
on there just because of how big immediate transport is
and I have been a bit disappointed not to see
more of him in the House prosecuting Simon Brown. I mean,
I know that Simon Brown is criminally, criminally underrated by
the political left in this country, but still like I
think that there is opportunity to take a couple of
(08:48):
excuse the pun.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Potshots at Yeah. I was so yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
In terms of portfolio areas, definitely like room areas of
you know, you could improvement, but but the whipping operation
and that has been really really also in labor, I've
put so here. So I've put Rachel Brooking like this,
I think partly portfolio based as well. The fast track
thing has been an absolute night yea the government. I
(09:14):
think it's one of those areas where National and Act
would probably prefer it looks a wee bit more like
what Labor had during COVID New Zealand, and thirst is
very keen to have it looked like it does now
and and and Rachel Brooking is picking out a part
uh and and you know it's all over the media.
It's it's it's going to be a massive issue that
(09:34):
will dog this government for for years. Even if you
think it's a good policy, they'll be controversial calls made
because of it. And and and therefore it will be
in the headlines for a long time.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
My other one, this is controversial.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Chris Sipkins, Okay, I no, no, I I I I'm
right there with you. I think he's I think he's done.
He's I think he's done well.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I think I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I don't look at him and think this is this
is the best thing since our turn in terms of
and opposition leader, although our demo wasn't only in oppositionally
different about fifteen minutes, but you know he's he's holding
it together relatively well. And I do think that he
is the best in the house for labor. I think
that he's quite good at those prosecuting questions during question time.
Although I will note, and Chris, if you're listening to this,
(10:17):
you need to stop doing this. Is when it's not
your question, you just your eyes glaze down to your
phone and you just sit there scrolling with your glasses on,
and everybody else is barracking and heckling, and you're just
on your phone scrolling.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's my criticism.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Ye have you noticed it? In the house?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I a weeper.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I mean, I do notice that if you basically we
impaid house is the house of the Christian Time is
like Twitter time, when you know, like whenever whenever Christian
Time starts, you get lots of sort of like you
look at your Twitter and lots of imps are liking
your tweets or retweeting you or messaging you about tweets
you like, focus people.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
The reason I've got.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Chriscepkins on is I agree in the house he like,
I think it's a really difficult It's it's a real
skill to have to be able to look at an issue,
see what the you know, and and pick the issue
apart into its constituent issues, it's constituent parts, and then
attack it prosecutorially or prosecute it, and and and and
(11:16):
and either reveal more or kind of show flaws and
the argument. And I think when you look at at
the trouble that Christopher Luckson's gotten into in the House,
I think that's largely because Chris Hopkins is really, you know, prosecuting.
I think Christopher Latsin is improving in the House, but
he is probably one of the weaker Prime ministers. Yeah,
(11:37):
I mean, you know, in essence, I don she was
probably not as good as Hopkins. You know, I wasn't
there personally, but you know what, watched Clark and keet
On telling you a lot and.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Just you know, it's.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
He realies even even I think when he could answer
the question, I think he has the ability to. I
think he's so nervous about that he he just gives
the Like what I'd say to you.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is, yes, he deflects. And I'll tell you what.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Question time has become a point of order time and
it's every single question time. And I understand why he's
doing this because it's not just the Prime Minister, it's
Winston as well. Is that they get up and they
just obvious gate to the point where, I mean, the
most ridiculous thing about question time is you do not
have to answer the question. You have to address the question.
And so politicians will lean on that little loophole and
(12:28):
nothing actually gets said. But Chris Luxon strays from it
so much to the point where Hipkins is able to
prosecute him every single time, and the Speaker has actually
started pulling up the Prime Minister a lot more on that.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And I do I think we're I mean just sindare
doing Obviously it was the new papin a lot longer
than Christophlason was before becoming Prime Minister, and so when
she when she was off the skating, she could do
it with a bit more detail. She would should pick
up a few details and push them back on the
opposition so that that it was a slightly more satisfying answer,
even though it just like Christopher and we'll do will
(13:01):
not address the question. I think Christopherlatson's answers are often
quite unsatisfying, and I think with Chris Epkins, where he
succeeds spill out with you know, the first year of
the I do in government, you see the opposition, the
National Opposition basically saying hey, look look, Labor, we're in
government for nine years. We know how this works. You
and and everyone watching us like, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
They actually do.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, they've got nine years of experience and you've got
a few months. And Chris Hipkins is like that, that
one person. Yeah, and it's basically like, you know, watch
out mate, because I know what I'm talking about here,
and I'd probably know more about it than you.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And I think that's where Christopher Luckson gets a wee bit.
You know, he's quite confident from the media now Christopher Luckson,
but he loses that confidence in the house. And I
think it's because he knows that there is a good
chance that if he doesn't watch himself, he'll come away
much worse off.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
And the other person, moving on to my next pick
from Labor, who is quite good in the house and
does pick up on the old point of order, you're
not answering the question very forensic is old.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Kieran mcinalty.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yes, I think he's been on quite well and that
I think that the thing is, he's got this sort
of and I hate to say it, he's got this
sort of rural charm that a lot of people like.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And here's the guts of it sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He famously said that everybody cotton on on, but you
can't just have the sort of the flashy sort of
rural stuff. You've got to have something to back it
up as well. And I think he's been quite good
at that. He's been one of the ones that's been
proactive on the various different things that he's prosecuting the
government on housing, for example, that's one of his new portfolios.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
He's been quite good on it.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I mean you need to be to go up against
his old mate Chris Bishop, who is very very good
in this, and he's extremely experienced parliamentary and in terms
of how long he's been a staffer for before he
became an MP, and I think he's Yeah, he's picked
up on that quite well.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Asteria.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's tough when there's so much approximately between the two,
when they're sorry, when there's so little proximate approximately between
the two and labor and nationals housing policies, with the
big exception of social housing so similar yeah, they're both
both now pro supply you know, cubles, you know, this
sort of stuff. I And also I think with Kieran,
(15:06):
obviously everyone's fingering him as a future leader. So I
think it's it's difficult, you know, you don't want to
be too fleshy because then it gets a weepit sort
of awkward, and the rumors start and you know, you
can see National trying to start this rumor, you know,
just like Laby used to do.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's totally fair enough.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Laby used to do it with great mirth, but it's
sort of not quite landing because it just doesn't appear
to have any leaks to it at the moment.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So, you know, Chris, you know, Kieren mcnomally sitting there
sharpenings land whatever, and it just doesn't land because I
think Karen's quite wisely just keeping his head down.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And where do we want to go? Do we want
to go keep on the left side or we want
to switch up together?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Government?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Oh, I got a couple of couple of government that
I could I'm going to start with the NATS and
I think mine is Jerry Browne, a speaker. I like
what he's done with the House I think that he has.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's very relaxed. I mean, anybody that knows Jerry and
has known him for a while I say that like
world mates. I know him professionally sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Would have thought that he might have been a little
bit grumpy, a little bit more Trevor Mallard about it,
kicking people out and having a bit of a short fuse.
But he actually hasn't.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
He hasn't.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
We're six months into this due government. He hasn't kicked
one person out of the house yet, he you know,
I mean, there are questions around how much he lets
Winston get away with with those insane supplementary questions that
seem to worry the government more than they do the opposition,
who are all leaning forward to see what will Winston
say to tie the Prime Minister in knots with his
own supplementary question. But Jerry lets the conversation that lets
(16:50):
the debate go. He intervenes when he needs to. He's
you know, he comes down on members that are taking
it too far. Sometimes you'll think back to a couple
of weeks ago with the more impuance and then in
terms of the Commathua that was doing the talk before
the wyat the and then the tea Party, Marty jumped
up and basically outrageously said that the speaker should apologize,
(17:13):
which is disorderly and Maureen obviously was.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Headlines. But Jerry came down put the issue to bed
straight away.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, I thought he. I thought he handled it quite
well and it might not have been I think it's
a call. You could definitely disagree with the call. I
mean it's probably one of the business community needs to
look at. Actually, like if this is a tea kang
ussue where where people are allowed to speak beforehand, then
I think there's something that Parliament could and should accommodate.
But the rule of of you know, no kind of
(17:42):
introducting from the gallery is there for a very good reason.
And yeah, I think he like that was a that
was a that was probably his toughest call so far,
where I think Jim Brownie could probably there's a there's
an ongoing issue around the interpretations of the standing Order
of using a pets question to just attack the former government. Yeah,
and he's trying to take a tough one, but the
(18:05):
nets are really pushing and it's driving labor.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
At the wall.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, and that's interesting to see. I say again, you
can come down either way, and you're like, you know, labor,
labor also like the number of times that you heard
nine years and neglig on your answers, and when they're
in governments are like.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, labor can really too much.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
And I do think what he does well or something
that he's trying to be pushing back on. I had
a good chat with him the other day about this,
is that if you watch Parliamentary TV in question time,
you'll hear the same question every day. Does the minister
stand by all his statements and comments or some iteration
of that, and so it basically it's a it's a
question designed to hide the follow ups because you have
to have your supplementary questions relate to the primary question.
(18:51):
And if your primary question is his everything that you've
ever said, is it correct?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
You know, it means that you can go anywhere.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
So what Jerry's doing is he's pushing back and saying
when the opposition says, well, hang on a second, you're
not allowed to do that. That's not within the realms
of what I was asking, Jerry pushes back and say,
you ask such a ridiculously broad question. So of course
they can say whatever they want. So I think he's
getting very slowly trying to change that rule, which I
have a lot of respect for because it'll make Parliament
a much better a place for information, not for ambushes.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I think, yeah, I think that's that's that's fair enough.
I think if you were to go down that route,
you'd need to be much stricter on the answers that
you you can't just address the question. It really needs
to be slightly more substantably answered than my understanding was
in the past speakers it's kind of had kind of
used that if you actually, if you have the guts
to put your primary, to put some detail, and you're
(19:40):
to answer specific primary question, then certainly the first answer
you have an expectation of some specificity because the person
has the ability to research, you know, to go back
and get the information for it, and also subsequent subs
as well. So you know, I think that that was
that was to my understanding. The trade off is that
if you do as a broad primary, then you know
you really be answer that you get is up to
(20:01):
you or sorry. You can't complain about the answer you get.
So I think if you if we're going to go
down that road, and I think I agree with you.
I think it's probably a good thing to look at
going down All the rules need to be kind of
enforced in that way. And this is one where I
do feel a wee bits I'm a wee bit bad
for labor On because obviously in reverse national and and
(20:24):
and asked very broad primary questions that does she stand
by all his statements? And you know, and and and
and labor you know was often forced him detailed answers,
but get a good pick. I'm going to head into
the beehive now, I'm going to speed things up. So
I'm gonna I'm going to do my three three executives
(20:44):
executive members from the NETS, Nicola Wilson, Christ Bishop hardly surprising.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
I've got them grouped as well, but you know it's
the and you just know they're listening as well.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And Simeon Brown, of course, I think is that he's
the sort of clobe saw break of the right and
the way that his mirror existence just insane.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
He's not being tested in the house though. That's the
thing he had.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
He had a good gambit a couple of weeks ago
where somebody I think was Willie Jackson really really messed
up a question and he stood up. He was like,
mister speaker, I I want to raise them. I have emotions,
so the minister or the member can ask the question again.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
And he was probably Penny Henna. Dat was like sit
down Simeon every time he stands up, like sit down, Siman.
But like Simeon is like number five in the Nationals
Party's ranking. He's in charge of a huge portfolio of work.
I think, Simmy, he's as he said, criminally underrated.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
He's he's very he's got a messive portfolios, no disasters.
And then yet I think the biggest, the biggest dish
I think was our colleague and friend of the podcast
Natives Train's incredible leak about the costings of those transport poblics. Yeah,
I but you know, other than other than that major
multi billion dollar issue performing you know, really well, Nicola
(22:10):
willis difficult budget to do, basically pulled it off with
the massive.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Exception of that can to disaster.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
God, but you know, in general, just dominant in the house.
Would you say those days, it's just incredible, it really dominant.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
It's just she so she obviously skates a lot better
than the PM does, So she can do what Jacinda
did in terms of she's not saying anything, but she's
obviously moving away from the point that the opposition wants
to get to, and she does it really well. At
the same time, she uses patsies very well, which is
something that not a lot of ministers do.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
She used it. Usually our eyes glaze over with patsy's
because they're just not important anymore, but she'll use them
to say things like the previous government left us with
so much debt that it's going to be eight billion
dollars a year to cover the interest and things like that,
which is technically not attacking the opposition or the pre
his government, is basically stating the fact of what is
happening in a way that frames the last guys as
(23:05):
the bad guys. And I think that she does that
was quite skill. Amount of skill.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, it was very and just like I mean, even
when the Barbara Edmans, I think it was Barbara Edmans.
Is that that classic thing of being a subject mattery
expert who's then become a politician. It's but like Andrew,
Andrew Bailey kind of struggled a wee bit in that trusural.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Role remember those days, and he you know it was.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I think when you come as a subject matter expert,
sometimes you struggle with the politic political side of things.
And and she will ask these questions in the house,
and Nicola Willis will kind of sometimes she'll give single
word answers just for shutting them down. And Barbaria, can
she rule out raising this.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
This?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And Nicola will just stand up and say yes. And
then you know, it's just it's and I think when
when when you're sort of building you up and getting
your confidence ready to.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Raise that issue, just it's it's it's really quite impressive
to watch. She's really I just think she's very, very dominant.
Uh And and I haven't really seen her under appreciate.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
She has not been yet been flapped. She is unflappable.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And and Chris Bushop the same kind of a bit
of a mix of I mean brand Nichola Willis like
massive potfolios, huge portfolios, and again like in the house,
haven't really he seems to be enjoying himself what she
would because obviously you know both what both of them
are the debates.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
He seems to be having fun, does doesn't he.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Right we've got we're we're we're on a clip.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So let's go back to the left. Probably the party
that is.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Polling incredibly well, but you'd have to say it's probably
had the worst year of all of them, the Greens.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
The Greens. Should we see our person at the same time.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I'm going to say, yeah, okay, one, two, three, close,
it has to be.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's got to be.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I was. I basically said, every MP who hasn't been
in trouble for the Greens, which is Chloe. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
But but Chloe's will break, you know, I mean, what
can you say become coly that doing a c retally
good jobs about that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Getting better as well.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
I remember she did this interview on Q and A
right at the beginning where she just talked like an
academic the whole time, and it was just so unrelatable
and it was very sort of I work at Victoria
University and only read newsroom. No offense to newsroom. I
love you guys, but that had that sort of vibe
it's my home. I mean, I'm describing you actually A no.
But she's she's gotten a lot better at the SoundBite,
(25:37):
She's got a lot better at getting to the numb
of issues, I think, and I think that she's the
most articulate MP and one of the best speakers in
the House, and I think that it'd be good to
see a little bit more of that.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
But she has been dogged by numerous various scandals.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I feel like she's her party is holding her back
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, I actually say my other one who has I
would say as a scutle, just a wee bit of
a flub, a bit of riccardom and in this March
good good quest.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, apart from the notable incident of.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
The bomb getting into hands hard, you know, and like
issued like the issue he was articulating was actually quite
a fear on his labor.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Was like just there was only one word to describe
what he was feeling, and he said it like it's
fair enough.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Labor was kicking up a stink about the piece of
legislation that that it had very much been backing while
in government. But but I you know, actually came into
Parliament obviously he was a sort of saying there was
an expectation that he'd participate in the kind of Green
Party civil war over James. Sure, but actually and pop
and it could have been a stabilizing force in the
(26:43):
twenty twenty twenty three year. Actually that completely didn't eventuate
and has actually been a very good issues based MP
who's prosecuted as issues very effectively.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Not Muster the leader of the House for them, he's
I think they just still call it. Is it shadow leader,
shadow leader or whatever it is. I think he's been great,
but it's.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Like he's prosecuted issues very very well. I thought the
ACT Party on New Zealand first.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Or I mean from ACT, I do think that Seymour
is doing a good job.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I think that what I like and it's sort of like,
and this is a bit of a cheating answer, but
I kind of grouped Seymour, Luxeon and Winston in in
one in so far as the fact that I think
Luxon has done well at letting them both be themselves.
They haven't lost their political identities. The Winston is still
and we can report from the cold face very Winston,
(27:34):
especially when it comes to media stand ups and the
way that he talks to us and the way that
he replies to things. I mean, the man has two
separate Twitter accounts, one for foreign affairs, which is very
foreign and Fairsy and then he still has his Winston
Peter's one, which is still Winston Peters and then Seymour
at the same.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Time he's a world leader.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Got the wrong one.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's gonna happen. It has to happen, right, Like I
constantly look at the wrong one when I'm looking.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
At picking up her phone.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
This guys well.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
But I think the way that lux And has let
them both like maintain their individuality, their party positions at
the same time and being in the coalition. And I
think it just got speaks to the fact that the
Coalition agreement was written so well, so they can basically
as long as you're sticking to the nuts and bolts
of what was in it.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
God, So I found no problems with the Coalition agreement.
I think you know, there was like the ninety ninety
Sex Coalition agreement famously, like even the eighty pages long,
too long, too specific and too much reason to allow
the government to fall apart. That was criticized with them,
and I think they do agreements were possibly not specific
enough and left enough for him for to regular other things,
famously on things like light rail and this coalition agreement.
(28:37):
These Coalition agreement seem to.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Have struck Helocks Coalition agreement, the gold Locks collation agreement.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, I think David seem has done a really good job.
I think sometimes you probably like prosecute issues a week
too much. You can kind of I wouldn't say back
if we passing cart he does bark a lot of
cars though.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yeah, so still accessible though, I will say still some
ministers who I will not name that just stopped replying
to texts.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
David Seymour is still proactive in that regard.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So yeah, I do. I think he's quite good. Like
he comes it, does a lot of media and explains himself.
I think it's really you know, I think it's sort
of a laudable. A lot a lot of miss don't
really explain themselves. I'm going to go as well for
Brook van Velden and Karen Shure. I thought Karen Schaws
like I thought, I thought those a text from Departy
Mahrty were pretty disgusting.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, they were just I don't think if you've seen
anything like that, and it's.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
So reductionist, it's so yeah, she just reduced her to
her race and who she was, and she came out
swinging and firing and put them in their place to see,
you are not the party, you are not the voice
of Marty.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And she's sort of and she can define who she
wants to be and she's quite I mean, she's remarkably
open about her trials in state here when she was younger,
the difficult like the difficulty of that you know, background
and what she's had to go through to be who
she is, and and it's like justifiably be proud of it,
and you know, sort of that that backlash against to party.
Marty's attack I think was quite fair enough, because when
(30:06):
you go after someone for who they are.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
And and and in such as a personal.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Parliament usually doesn't get it can get it gets personal,
but not quite personal. I've never seen anyone stoop so low,
I think to laugh.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
About it as well.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
You ever, they didn't apologize, they didn't track back, they
just I mean, they're notably not on my list anybody
from Tipati Marti.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah she got I've got one, but I will get there.
So I thought.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Anyway, I thought she's done a good job and definite
a piece of legislation, anything involving I don't know. I
don't think it's pretty tough, but I thought she's handled
really well and broxvn Veld and I think it's done
a very good job. She was again like she's one
of ex youngest MP's. I think she possibly is. I
don't know everyone's ages, but and she probably had the
busiest work program prior to Christmas. So she was sworn
(31:00):
in you know, end of November and pre Christmas, got
through fair pay agreements and something else, and then the
minimum wage change earlier this year.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Uh like.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
No time to really get a fee under the desk
and really swung out too actions. So I thought, like,
you know, pretty impressive, you know, the second term MP
getting into government and getting through some massive some massive changes. Okay,
well you don't have anyone from Supparadi Marti, I'm going
to go for de Wi Nardi Repecker. I think she
thinks that she's it's a tough you know, like that
(31:33):
they're they're kind of going through hell at the moment
with these these allegations or strenuously denied by the party.
But I you know, this podcast quite enjoys issues based stuff,
and she is. I think Rabady White sort of can
(31:53):
get somewhat distracted by the performative aspects of politics. I
mean Debi Nadi Repacker. Obviously occasionally it is also quite performative.
All the difiance are, but but she is probably the
most kind of issue centric and I do think that
like the current sort of John and Tammaheaday iteration of party,
Maori has got a probably probably an issue with being
(32:16):
hopefully weighted towards the performative side of things and really
under resource in terms of policy.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Will they any even turn up to vote on the budget?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yes, well, stuff like that. It's it's and eventually, like
obviously they're going through a bit of a renaissance. It's
kind of the best of worse times of climes at
the moment, renaissance in terms of their polling, and obviously
a pretty bad time in terms of scandal. But I
think for longevity you need some policy because you can't
sort of perform your way into the BEI So I
(32:43):
like I think, and interestingly enough, you talk to anyone,
talk to people from across the chamber, who is the
person's party Mary, who they probably get on with the best.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
She's like the Tracy Martin of the old New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
First, It's true Okay, New Zealand first, Oh, yes, well,
I just I said, well, I mean, obviously Shane. I
think Shane's like unapologetically very sort of pro mining and
he's you know, we talk about the theater and the
performance side. He's very much, very much on that side
of things. But at the same time getting things through
with the turning the oil and gas exploration over, opening
(33:18):
up things for mining, and I think he's probably struck
a chord it happening at the same time as these.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Lack of gas and the threats of blackout. So I
think that he's doing quite well.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Yeah, Shane has I think been incredible, possibly his best term.
I think he feels.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Labor kind of constrained him slightly when he was in
government with him, and he feels sort of unconstrained, which
is possibly not too thick, no, no, but to his
I think, yeah, I think he's he's certainly on top
of the world at the moment and from court well actually,
and I think Winston Winston and Foreign Reviews is going
quite well.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Managing to get all those savings out of Foreign of hairs.
Though everybody else was six percent, he barely manages one.
It's why they love them.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I think he's he's performing quite well. Matt Penison's always
is a required achiever. I think are a quiet worker.
And actually I'm going we're nearly done, but I missed
off to to National that I got to my executive bespot,
didn't get to my bank bench.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Becks, are you going to talk about Mega.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I'm going to talk about James Katie Nemon. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And obviously they are the two. They were the two
first maiden speeches. Obviously that every party in government puts
up there. Two you know that there are two kind
of uh right, hopeful, bright young things. They're they're they're
great hopes of the future for the for the two
first maiden speeches. And these two were chosen by the
National Party. They were good choices by Christopher Luxan. I
think James Meaga is a good and and Kadie Nemen
(34:41):
actually both of them good foils for Adam and Williams
and the labeor whorping operation in general. Obviously they're not
that's not their role and and and and National, but
they are good. I think they they're quite good at well,
they're they're quite good anti filibusters, if you know what
I mean, they were in the House whereas labor was
was was really trying to grind the government down, and
(35:02):
they were in the House trying to grind labor down,
you know. And I think like there are some moments
that the last last year in the House rose, you know,
that the labor could have fill the busters the week
wore on some of those nights and and they slightly
gave up. Yeah, we didn't quite get up, but I
didn't quite go as hard as they could have done.
So I think I think those two have done a
(35:23):
really good job.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
And Select Committee were Injustice sharing that and Keati Nimen
that that's going to be.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, so so yeah, I would say I would say
those two and that would be my last.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Should we do the ones that we think of performing
the worst.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Another podcast to me? Yeah, it's tough because you don't
see what happens behind this scene. Just because someone's quiet,
it doesn't mean they're bad, you know. Yeah, we get
a hell of a lot more listens, though, I think.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
If we probably listen to the end for the worst all,
if we could pay all of Jason, thank you very much,
have a wonderful time Japan.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Thank you. I'll bring you one of those fun flavored.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Kokkats, a fun flavored KitKat.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Japan, they have like hundreds of flavors of kok cats.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Okay, I will.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
There's also a Supreme Coffee very close to the New
Zealand Embassy in Tokyo. Yah got the Supreme actual Supreme Coffee.
It's very close to the embassy. It's like a little
New Zealand store.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'll bring you back some KitKat and some coffee.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, bring me bring me some of the worst Carbon
Miles coffee, some Supreme coffee back to Wellington. Thank you
for listen listening. Thanks to Jason obviously for coming on.
Thanks that Ethan Stills, our producer that was on the tiles.
We'll be back with more on the tiles next week.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
It will be more. I'm not sure what it will be,
but it will be.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You know it will be.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
We will be back. Thank you as always for the stake.
Hello, and welcome to on the Tiles, the New Zealand
Heralds politics podcast. I'm your host Thomas Cocklin, the DPD
political editor of The Herald, and joining me today for
a long delayed podcast through long delayed as news tours politically.
That to Jason Wilf, Jason kia oh.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Kanetchiwa to you two.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
You're off to Japan.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I am off to Japan this week.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I am, yes, leaving on very early Sunday morning on
the Defense Force plane.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
If it decides to take off, I will say that
it did take.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Off when we're in Fiji and New A last week,
and I've taken it to Japan before, so it's good.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I think it's going to be okay, hope, Well, I
my fingers crossed for you and the giant Q for it. Oh.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I don't know if we're going to see them really yep.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I got from.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
The Prem's office the only time that we would see them.
We're actually leaving a little bit early. It's from some
sort of food and beverage thing and we're leaving media
or leaving just before that gets there, so you might
be out of luck.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Maybe that's that's probably worth a couple of points in
the pills.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's the only reason I'm going to well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
For joining us.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The only the only podcast recorded entirely from Parliament itself. Newsrooms,
politics podcasts are recorded here, but but I think it
comes in from Auckland. So there's a point of difference.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And that's what that's what people want, right, authenticity exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
It's you know, we trade deals. So we our plan
for this. We were going to do this a few
weeks ago, but I was ill. There's been a lot
of sickness going around. I'm about ready for a lockdown.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I have to say, would I'd be quite keen. I
could do a little level four sneak level.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
What's what's a lockdown? Between friends?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Little? A little week of live before?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, lovely, although it would in test from being able
to say this was the only podcast recorded entirely from
we We we planned to do this. We've got to
it's six months basically since since the government has formed,
Parliament returned, and we we want to look through MPs
who we think have done done well.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
What's what's the shape of the new parliament?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You know, we've been talking a lot, there's been a
lot of commentary about who's doing well? Who is the
government forming well? Is the opposition for performing well? You know,
we want to make it personal. And some MP's are
really who really equipped themselves.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
And I do know knowing MPs, that all one hundred
and twenty three of them are listening to this to
hear if their name is going to be mentioned. So
if you're listening to this, MPs, which I know you are,
wait with baited breath to see if Thomas and I
think that you're one of the goodes, I.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Would I would say that I in that in that spirit,
I think that the the A lot of this, I
think is issues based. I think some of the MP's
who really succeeded have succeeded because the particular issue has
come up. And I think that some of the MP's
who you know, it's sort of like that the dogs
that didn't bark because the particular issue has has not
(02:43):
you know, and are on it.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I saw on it.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'll actually this seems kind of mean because it makes
it sound like the MP is only good because their
issue has jumped up. There's no way of being nice.
I'm I'm going to I'm going to start with one
of mine. I think Aischaviro was was was one of my.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
My top piece.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
She was on my list as well.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, and I so, I mean this isn't just because
her particular issues has cropped up, but I think she
was probably first out of the box. I think people
had expected her, you know, gone straight into cabinet to
kind of failed to fire well just because of Vanish
into the mid bench after government, because you know, I
(03:22):
should only have one term. Obviously, she's the very longesting
the Labor Party. Going back to student politics new Crucipins,
I think.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Which is very unusual for a sitting member of the
Labor Party to be in student politics, isn't it. Thomas rare,
very very rare, very rare.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But I sort of thought, like that smoking policy pretty
undefendable apart from the law and order stuff, which then
the data around it's really bit ruby. So I think
she the way she absolutely prosecuted that gave Shane Ridleti
nightmare as you know, quickly delegated Stella. Yeah, you know,
it was just it was within a few weeks of
the government being formed, all those coalition agreements being signed.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
She was at it.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
She was on it, and I think What is made
it a lot easier for her is that she probably
sees a lot of herself in Casey Costello, who was
also a completely new member of Parliament who's coming into cabinet,
so she'll be she'll know sitting there in the House
what it feels like to be new into cabinet having
to defend government policies that you might not be one
hundred percent across. And she knows exactly how to make
(04:19):
her squirm. And that's what we've seen her doing, and
she's been ruthless about it. There's no kindness in Aishaverrol's approach,
and nor should there be.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You know, although I was around February when those guys
and expir stories were coming out of you know what
what Casey Costella had recommended, it had been advised on
whether she'd done this or all that. I think it
was the around the cigarette I mean, part of this
is the sort of Casey Costello's because it wasn't just
rolling back of the smoke free policy. It was the
decision to at least look at a different form at
(04:48):
a different level of excize and what what she'd ask
for advice on. So there were multiple issues at play
and and and viewer was sort of on top of
all of them. So I think I think, I think
points there she would do this by parties.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I'm as in, like, stay in labor for now, for now, Okay,
you go for one. I've got a not.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
An unconventional one. I think people that follow politics would
be thinking this as well. But I don't know Williams.
And I'll tell you why she isn't. She's not one
of the issues based that you talked about. She I
can't even I can't even tell you what her portfolios are,
if I'm honest. She's a relatively new MP. She came
here in twenty seventeen. I think of what was it,
twenty twenty, twenty.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Twenty was it? So she's still relatively new.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I have a lot of classes. Twenty twenty twenty was
a good year.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah. But what she does well and
it's she's good in the House and not sort of
question time house. She's good at the old filibustering, and
she's good at Committee of the whole House. She's very
good in select committees.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
And you can see the lawyer in her coming out
as she prosecutes things really well and what she does
exceedingly well is a point of annoyance for me as
a journalist, but it's a point of pride for MP's
is when it's in Committee of the Whole House and
when they are filibus. String uses a particular skill in
drawing out a question and the speaker will very quickly
(06:11):
come down on you if you're doing a sermon rather
than a question, and I think she does that very well.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And she's one of the.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
People that's exactly where the line.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Exactly where the line is. Every time I look up
to my TV screen when it's Committee of the Whole
seems to always be at Anna.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, I actually and answered, this is my people listening
to this basically during when the house is sitting during
question time, most journalists will be in the prist gallery
actually watching it in person. But after question time, like
most MPs will be back to our offices and put
the TV on and watch it whilst what's working. And
(06:45):
you're right when I whenever I look over my shoulder
and see he's speaking, Adam Williams is invariably like there.
She's part of the whips team for Labor. I've actually
put all the whips for Labor up, so Tanguay, Tikitty
and Camilla Ballech as well. I think the whipping team
in Labor has because obviously, like you know, history would
would suggest that when you go to opposition, it's a bit.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Of a tough job to be a whip.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Jamie Ross was a famously whip and very famously and
and and and you know, well but but I think, yeah,
Adam has done a really good job that I first
sort of thought, you know, there's some really good work
going on last at the end of last year, the
December urgency where government was getting through a few hundred
(07:31):
day playing things before the end of the year, I
think was the repeal of the clean car discount and
the repeal of their pay agreements, and Adam and Williams
was just smashing it. And I you know, she kind
of in coming in twenty twenty and that massive intake,
she was quite highly people want to watch. Obviously that
there was an issue around Lewisa wall and and and that.
But but that kind of made a one to watch
(07:52):
because you think, well, who's the Labor Party, you know,
who's so big that that the Labor Party would risk
a massive fight in that seat too and keep them
in and and and clearly this is this is the person.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
But she was sort of.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Lost, I thought, and in that mess of intake and
not being in the government obviously first hmm p.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But but yeah, pretty really work.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I hear the last December and then during the budget period,
and I've put all the whips on there for that reason.
I think Tongue was a kidding and Camilla Bellich possibly
not firing in portfolio areas.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I had done a column earlier in this year about
ones to watch within Labor and I did put tonguey
on there just because of how big immediate transport is
and I have been a bit disappointed not to see
more of him in the House prosecuting Simon Brown. I mean,
I know that Simon Brown is criminally, criminally underrated by
the political left in this country, but still like I
think that there is opportunity to take a couple of
(08:48):
excuse the pun.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Potshots at Yeah. I was so yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
In terms of portfolio areas, definitely like room areas of
you know, you could improvement, but but the whipping operation
and that has been really really also in labor, I've
put so here. So I've put Rachel Brooking like this,
I think partly portfolio based as well. The fast track
thing has been an absolute night yea the government. I
(09:14):
think it's one of those areas where National and Act
would probably prefer it looks a wee bit more like
what Labor had during COVID New Zealand, and thirst is
very keen to have it looked like it does now
and and and Rachel Brooking is picking out a part
uh and and you know it's all over the media.
It's it's it's going to be a massive issue that
(09:34):
will dog this government for for years. Even if you
think it's a good policy, they'll be controversial calls made
because of it. And and and therefore it will be
in the headlines for a long time.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
My other one, this is controversial.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Chris Sipkins, Okay, I no, no, I I I I'm
right there with you. I think he's I think he's done.
He's I think he's done well.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I think I don't.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I don't look at him and think this is this
is the best thing since our turn in terms of
and opposition leader, although our demo wasn't only in oppositionally
different about fifteen minutes, but you know he's he's holding
it together relatively well. And I do think that he
is the best in the house for labor. I think
that he's quite good at those prosecuting questions during question time.
Although I will note, and Chris, if you're listening to this,
(10:17):
you need to stop doing this. Is when it's not
your question, you just your eyes glaze down to your
phone and you just sit there scrolling with your glasses on,
and everybody else is barracking and heckling, and you're just
on your phone scrolling.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's my criticism.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Ye have you noticed it? In the house?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I a weeper.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I mean, I do notice that if you basically we
impaid house is the house of the Christian Time is
like Twitter time, when you know, like whenever whenever Christian
Time starts, you get lots of sort of like you
look at your Twitter and lots of imps are liking
your tweets or retweeting you or messaging you about tweets
you like, focus people.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
The reason I've got.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Chriscepkins on is I agree in the house he like,
I think it's a really difficult It's it's a real
skill to have to be able to look at an issue,
see what the you know, and and pick the issue
apart into its constituent issues, it's constituent parts, and then
attack it prosecutorially or prosecute it, and and and and
(11:16):
and either reveal more or kind of show flaws and
the argument. And I think when you look at at
the trouble that Christopher Luckson's gotten into in the House,
I think that's largely because Chris Hopkins is really, you know, prosecuting.
I think Christopher Latsin is improving in the House, but
he is probably one of the weaker Prime ministers. Yeah,
(11:37):
I mean, you know, in essence, I don she was
probably not as good as Hopkins. You know, I wasn't
there personally, but you know what, watched Clark and keet
On telling you a lot and.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Just you know, it's.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
He realies even even I think when he could answer
the question, I think he has the ability to. I
think he's so nervous about that he he just gives
the Like what I'd say to you.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Is, yes, he deflects. And I'll tell you what.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Question time has become a point of order time and
it's every single question time. And I understand why he's
doing this because it's not just the Prime Minister, it's
Winston as well. Is that they get up and they
just obvious gate to the point where, I mean, the
most ridiculous thing about question time is you do not
have to answer the question. You have to address the question.
And so politicians will lean on that little loophole and
(12:28):
nothing actually gets said. But Chris Luxon strays from it
so much to the point where Hipkins is able to
prosecute him every single time, and the Speaker has actually
started pulling up the Prime Minister a lot more on that.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And I do I think we're I mean just sindare
doing Obviously it was the new papin a lot longer
than Christophlason was before becoming Prime Minister, and so when
she when she was off the skating, she could do
it with a bit more detail. She would should pick
up a few details and push them back on the
opposition so that that it was a slightly more satisfying answer,
even though it just like Christopher and we'll do will
(13:01):
not address the question. I think Christopherlatson's answers are often
quite unsatisfying, and I think with Chris Epkins, where he
succeeds spill out with you know, the first year of
the I do in government, you see the opposition, the
National Opposition basically saying hey, look look, Labor, we're in
government for nine years. We know how this works. You
and and everyone watching us like, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
They actually do.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, they've got nine years of experience and you've got
a few months. And Chris Hipkins is like that, that
one person. Yeah, and it's basically like, you know, watch
out mate, because I know what I'm talking about here,
and I'd probably know more about it than you.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And I think that's where Christopher Luckson gets a wee bit.
You know, he's quite confident from the media now Christopher Luckson,
but he loses that confidence in the house. And I
think it's because he knows that there is a good
chance that if he doesn't watch himself, he'll come away
much worse off.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
And the other person, moving on to my next pick
from Labor, who is quite good in the house and
does pick up on the old point of order, you're
not answering the question very forensic is old.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Kieran mcinalty.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yes, I think he's been on quite well and that
I think that the thing is, he's got this sort
of and I hate to say it, he's got this
sort of rural charm that a lot of people like.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And here's the guts of it sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He famously said that everybody cotton on on, but you
can't just have the sort of the flashy sort of
rural stuff. You've got to have something to back it
up as well. And I think he's been quite good
at that. He's been one of the ones that's been
proactive on the various different things that he's prosecuting the
government on housing, for example, that's one of his new portfolios.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
He's been quite good on it.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I mean you need to be to go up against
his old mate Chris Bishop, who is very very good
in this, and he's extremely experienced parliamentary and in terms
of how long he's been a staffer for before he
became an MP, and I think he's Yeah, he's picked
up on that quite well.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Asteria.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's tough when there's so much approximately between the two,
when they're sorry, when there's so little proximate approximately between
the two and labor and nationals housing policies, with the
big exception of social housing so similar yeah, they're both
both now pro supply you know, cubles, you know, this
sort of stuff. I And also I think with Kieran,
(15:06):
obviously everyone's fingering him as a future leader. So I
think it's it's difficult, you know, you don't want to
be too fleshy because then it gets a weepit sort
of awkward, and the rumors start and you know, you
can see National trying to start this rumor, you know,
just like Laby used to do.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's totally fair enough.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Laby used to do it with great mirth, but it's
sort of not quite landing because it just doesn't appear
to have any leaks to it at the moment.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So, you know, Chris, you know, Kieren mcnomally sitting there
sharpenings land whatever, and it just doesn't land because I
think Karen's quite wisely just keeping his head down.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And where do we want to go? Do we want
to go keep on the left side or we want
to switch up together?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Government?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Oh, I got a couple of couple of government that
I could I'm going to start with the NATS and
I think mine is Jerry Browne, a speaker. I like
what he's done with the House I think that he has.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's very relaxed. I mean, anybody that knows Jerry and
has known him for a while I say that like
world mates. I know him professionally sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Would have thought that he might have been a little
bit grumpy, a little bit more Trevor Mallard about it,
kicking people out and having a bit of a short fuse.
But he actually hasn't.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
He hasn't.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
We're six months into this due government. He hasn't kicked
one person out of the house yet, he you know,
I mean, there are questions around how much he lets
Winston get away with with those insane supplementary questions that
seem to worry the government more than they do the opposition,
who are all leaning forward to see what will Winston
say to tie the Prime Minister in knots with his
own supplementary question. But Jerry lets the conversation that lets
(16:50):
the debate go. He intervenes when he needs to. He's
you know, he comes down on members that are taking
it too far. Sometimes you'll think back to a couple
of weeks ago with the more impuance and then in
terms of the Commathua that was doing the talk before
the wyat the and then the tea Party, Marty jumped
up and basically outrageously said that the speaker should apologize,
(17:13):
which is disorderly and Maureen obviously was.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Headlines. But Jerry came down put the issue to bed
straight away.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, I thought he. I thought he handled it quite
well and it might not have been I think it's
a call. You could definitely disagree with the call. I
mean it's probably one of the business community needs to
look at. Actually, like if this is a tea kang
ussue where where people are allowed to speak beforehand, then
I think there's something that Parliament could and should accommodate.
But the rule of of you know, no kind of
(17:42):
introducting from the gallery is there for a very good reason.
And yeah, I think he like that was a that
was a that was probably his toughest call so far,
where I think Jim Brownie could probably there's a there's
an ongoing issue around the interpretations of the standing Order
of using a pets question to just attack the former government. Yeah,
and he's trying to take a tough one, but the
(18:05):
nets are really pushing and it's driving labor.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
At the wall.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, and that's interesting to see. I say again, you
can come down either way, and you're like, you know, labor,
labor also like the number of times that you heard
nine years and neglig on your answers, and when they're
in governments are like.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, labor can really too much.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
And I do think what he does well or something
that he's trying to be pushing back on. I had
a good chat with him the other day about this,
is that if you watch Parliamentary TV in question time,
you'll hear the same question every day. Does the minister
stand by all his statements and comments or some iteration
of that, and so it basically it's a it's a
question designed to hide the follow ups because you have
to have your supplementary questions relate to the primary question.
(18:51):
And if your primary question is his everything that you've
ever said, is it correct?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
You know, it means that you can go anywhere.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
So what Jerry's doing is he's pushing back and saying
when the opposition says, well, hang on a second, you're
not allowed to do that. That's not within the realms
of what I was asking, Jerry pushes back and say,
you ask such a ridiculously broad question. So of course
they can say whatever they want. So I think he's
getting very slowly trying to change that rule, which I
have a lot of respect for because it'll make Parliament
a much better a place for information, not for ambushes.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I think, yeah, I think that's that's that's fair enough.
I think if you were to go down that route,
you'd need to be much stricter on the answers that
you you can't just address the question. It really needs
to be slightly more substantably answered than my understanding was
in the past speakers it's kind of had kind of
used that if you actually, if you have the guts
to put your primary, to put some detail, and you're
(19:40):
to answer specific primary question, then certainly the first answer
you have an expectation of some specificity because the person
has the ability to research, you know, to go back
and get the information for it, and also subsequent subs
as well. So you know, I think that that was
that was to my understanding. The trade off is that
if you do as a broad primary, then you know
you really be answer that you get is up to
(20:01):
you or sorry. You can't complain about the answer you get.
So I think if you if we're going to go
down that road, and I think I agree with you.
I think it's probably a good thing to look at
going down All the rules need to be kind of
enforced in that way. And this is one where I
do feel a wee bits I'm a wee bit bad
for labor On because obviously in reverse national and and
(20:24):
and asked very broad primary questions that does she stand
by all his statements? And you know, and and and
and labor you know was often forced him detailed answers,
but get a good pick. I'm going to head into
the beehive now, I'm going to speed things up. So
I'm gonna I'm going to do my three three executives
(20:44):
executive members from the NETS, Nicola Wilson, Christ Bishop hardly surprising.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
I've got them grouped as well, but you know it's
the and you just know they're listening as well.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And Simeon Brown, of course, I think is that he's
the sort of clobe saw break of the right and
the way that his mirror existence just insane.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
He's not being tested in the house though. That's the
thing he had.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
He had a good gambit a couple of weeks ago
where somebody I think was Willie Jackson really really messed
up a question and he stood up. He was like,
mister speaker, I I want to raise them. I have emotions,
so the minister or the member can ask the question again.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
And he was probably Penny Henna. Dat was like sit
down Simeon every time he stands up, like sit down, Siman.
But like Simeon is like number five in the Nationals
Party's ranking. He's in charge of a huge portfolio of work.
I think, Simmy, he's as he said, criminally underrated.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
He's he's very he's got a messive portfolios, no disasters.
And then yet I think the biggest, the biggest dish
I think was our colleague and friend of the podcast
Natives Train's incredible leak about the costings of those transport poblics. Yeah,
I but you know, other than other than that major
multi billion dollar issue performing you know, really well, Nicola
(22:10):
willis difficult budget to do, basically pulled it off with
the massive.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Exception of that can to disaster.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
God, but you know, in general, just dominant in the house.
Would you say those days, it's just incredible, it really dominant.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
It's just she so she obviously skates a lot better
than the PM does, So she can do what Jacinda
did in terms of she's not saying anything, but she's
obviously moving away from the point that the opposition wants
to get to, and she does it really well. At
the same time, she uses patsies very well, which is
something that not a lot of ministers do.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
She used it. Usually our eyes glaze over with patsy's
because they're just not important anymore, but she'll use them
to say things like the previous government left us with
so much debt that it's going to be eight billion
dollars a year to cover the interest and things like that,
which is technically not attacking the opposition or the pre
his government, is basically stating the fact of what is
happening in a way that frames the last guys as
(23:05):
the bad guys. And I think that she does that
was quite skill. Amount of skill.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, it was very and just like I mean, even
when the Barbara Edmans, I think it was Barbara Edmans.
Is that that classic thing of being a subject mattery
expert who's then become a politician. It's but like Andrew,
Andrew Bailey kind of struggled a wee bit in that trusural.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Role remember those days, and he you know it was.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I think when you come as a subject matter expert,
sometimes you struggle with the politic political side of things.
And and she will ask these questions in the house,
and Nicola Willis will kind of sometimes she'll give single
word answers just for shutting them down. And Barbaria, can
she rule out raising this.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
This?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And Nicola will just stand up and say yes. And
then you know, it's just it's and I think when
when when you're sort of building you up and getting
your confidence ready to.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Raise that issue, just it's it's it's really quite impressive
to watch. She's really I just think she's very, very dominant.
Uh And and I haven't really seen her under appreciate.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
She has not been yet been flapped. She is unflappable.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And and Chris Bushop the same kind of a bit
of a mix of I mean brand Nichola Willis like
massive potfolios, huge portfolios, and again like in the house,
haven't really he seems to be enjoying himself what she
would because obviously you know both what both of them
are the debates.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
He seems to be having fun, does doesn't he.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Right we've got we're we're we're on a clip.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So let's go back to the left. Probably the party
that is.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Polling incredibly well, but you'd have to say it's probably
had the worst year of all of them, the Greens.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
The Greens. Should we see our person at the same time.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I'm going to say, yeah, okay, one, two, three, close,
it has to be.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's got to be.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I was. I basically said, every MP who hasn't been
in trouble for the Greens, which is Chloe. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
But but Chloe's will break, you know, I mean, what
can you say become coly that doing a c retally
good jobs about that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Getting better as well.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
I remember she did this interview on Q and A
right at the beginning where she just talked like an
academic the whole time, and it was just so unrelatable
and it was very sort of I work at Victoria
University and only read newsroom. No offense to newsroom. I
love you guys, but that had that sort of vibe
it's my home. I mean, I'm describing you actually A no.
But she's she's gotten a lot better at the SoundBite,
(25:37):
She's got a lot better at getting to the numb
of issues, I think, and I think that she's the
most articulate MP and one of the best speakers in
the House, and I think that it'd be good to
see a little bit more of that.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
But she has been dogged by numerous various scandals.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I feel like she's her party is holding her back
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, I actually say my other one who has I
would say as a scutle, just a wee bit of
a flub, a bit of riccardom and in this March
good good quest.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, apart from the notable incident of.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
The bomb getting into hands hard, you know, and like
issued like the issue he was articulating was actually quite
a fear on his labor.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Was like just there was only one word to describe
what he was feeling, and he said it like it's
fair enough.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Labor was kicking up a stink about the piece of
legislation that that it had very much been backing while
in government. But but I you know, actually came into
Parliament obviously he was a sort of saying there was
an expectation that he'd participate in the kind of Green
Party civil war over James. Sure, but actually and pop
and it could have been a stabilizing force in the
(26:43):
twenty twenty twenty three year. Actually that completely didn't eventuate
and has actually been a very good issues based MP
who's prosecuted as issues very effectively.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Not Muster the leader of the House for them, he's
I think they just still call it. Is it shadow leader,
shadow leader or whatever it is. I think he's been great,
but it's.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Like he's prosecuted issues very very well. I thought the
ACT Party on New Zealand first.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Or I mean from ACT, I do think that Seymour
is doing a good job.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I think that what I like and it's sort of like,
and this is a bit of a cheating answer, but
I kind of grouped Seymour, Luxeon and Winston in in
one in so far as the fact that I think
Luxon has done well at letting them both be themselves.
They haven't lost their political identities. The Winston is still
and we can report from the cold face very Winston,
(27:34):
especially when it comes to media stand ups and the
way that he talks to us and the way that
he replies to things. I mean, the man has two
separate Twitter accounts, one for foreign affairs, which is very
foreign and Fairsy and then he still has his Winston
Peter's one, which is still Winston Peters and then Seymour
at the same.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Time he's a world leader.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Got the wrong one.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's gonna happen. It has to happen, right, Like I
constantly look at the wrong one when I'm looking.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
At picking up her phone.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
This guys well.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
But I think the way that lux And has let
them both like maintain their individuality, their party positions at
the same time and being in the coalition. And I
think it just got speaks to the fact that the
Coalition agreement was written so well, so they can basically
as long as you're sticking to the nuts and bolts
of what was in it.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
God, So I found no problems with the Coalition agreement.
I think you know, there was like the ninety ninety
Sex Coalition agreement famously, like even the eighty pages long,
too long, too specific and too much reason to allow
the government to fall apart. That was criticized with them,
and I think they do agreements were possibly not specific
enough and left enough for him for to regular other things,
famously on things like light rail and this coalition agreement.
(28:37):
These Coalition agreement seem to.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Have struck Helocks Coalition agreement, the gold Locks collation agreement.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, I think David seem has done a really good job.
I think sometimes you probably like prosecute issues a week
too much. You can kind of I wouldn't say back
if we passing cart he does bark a lot of
cars though.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yeah, so still accessible though, I will say still some
ministers who I will not name that just stopped replying
to texts.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
David Seymour is still proactive in that regard.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So yeah, I do. I think he's quite good. Like
he comes it, does a lot of media and explains himself.
I think it's really you know, I think it's sort
of a laudable. A lot a lot of miss don't
really explain themselves. I'm going to go as well for
Brook van Velden and Karen Shure. I thought Karen Schaws
like I thought, I thought those a text from Departy
Mahrty were pretty disgusting.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, they were just I don't think if you've seen
anything like that, and it's.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
So reductionist, it's so yeah, she just reduced her to
her race and who she was, and she came out
swinging and firing and put them in their place to see,
you are not the party, you are not the voice
of Marty.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And she's sort of and she can define who she
wants to be and she's quite I mean, she's remarkably
open about her trials in state here when she was younger,
the difficult like the difficulty of that you know, background
and what she's had to go through to be who
she is, and and it's like justifiably be proud of it,
and you know, sort of that that backlash against to party.
Marty's attack I think was quite fair enough, because when
(30:06):
you go after someone for who they are.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
And and and in such as a personal.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Parliament usually doesn't get it can get it gets personal,
but not quite personal. I've never seen anyone stoop so low,
I think to laugh.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
About it as well.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
You ever, they didn't apologize, they didn't track back, they
just I mean, they're notably not on my list anybody
from Tipati Marti.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah she got I've got one, but I will get there.
So I thought.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Anyway, I thought she's done a good job and definite
a piece of legislation, anything involving I don't know. I
don't think it's pretty tough, but I thought she's handled
really well and broxvn Veld and I think it's done
a very good job. She was again like she's one
of ex youngest MP's. I think she possibly is. I
don't know everyone's ages, but and she probably had the
busiest work program prior to Christmas. So she was sworn
(31:00):
in you know, end of November and pre Christmas, got
through fair pay agreements and something else, and then the
minimum wage change earlier this year.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Uh like.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
No time to really get a fee under the desk
and really swung out too actions. So I thought, like,
you know, pretty impressive, you know, the second term MP
getting into government and getting through some massive some massive changes. Okay,
well you don't have anyone from Supparadi Marti, I'm going
to go for de Wi Nardi Repecker. I think she
thinks that she's it's a tough you know, like that
(31:33):
they're they're kind of going through hell at the moment
with these these allegations or strenuously denied by the party.
But I you know, this podcast quite enjoys issues based stuff,
and she is. I think Rabady White sort of can
(31:53):
get somewhat distracted by the performative aspects of politics. I
mean Debi Nadi Repacker. Obviously occasionally it is also quite performative.
All the difiance are, but but she is probably the
most kind of issue centric and I do think that
like the current sort of John and Tammaheaday iteration of party,
Maori has got a probably probably an issue with being
(32:16):
hopefully weighted towards the performative side of things and really
under resource in terms of policy.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Will they any even turn up to vote on the budget?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yes, well, stuff like that. It's it's and eventually, like
obviously they're going through a bit of a renaissance. It's
kind of the best of worse times of climes at
the moment, renaissance in terms of their polling, and obviously
a pretty bad time in terms of scandal. But I
think for longevity you need some policy because you can't
sort of perform your way into the BEI So I
(32:43):
like I think, and interestingly enough, you talk to anyone,
talk to people from across the chamber, who is the
person's party Mary, who they probably get on with the best.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
She's like the Tracy Martin of the old New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
First, It's true Okay, New Zealand first, Oh, yes, well,
I just I said, well, I mean, obviously Shane. I
think Shane's like unapologetically very sort of pro mining and
he's you know, we talk about the theater and the
performance side. He's very much, very much on that side
of things. But at the same time getting things through
with the turning the oil and gas exploration over, opening
(33:18):
up things for mining, and I think he's probably struck
a chord it happening at the same time as these.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Lack of gas and the threats of blackout. So I
think that he's doing quite well.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Yeah, Shane has I think been incredible, possibly his best term.
I think he feels.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Labor kind of constrained him slightly when he was in
government with him, and he feels sort of unconstrained, which
is possibly not too thick, no, no, but to his
I think, yeah, I think he's he's certainly on top
of the world at the moment and from court well actually,
and I think Winston Winston and Foreign Reviews is going
quite well.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Managing to get all those savings out of Foreign of hairs.
Though everybody else was six percent, he barely manages one.
It's why they love them.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I think he's he's performing quite well. Matt Penison's always
is a required achiever. I think are a quiet worker.
And actually I'm going we're nearly done, but I missed
off to to National that I got to my executive bespot,
didn't get to my bank bench.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Becks, are you going to talk about Mega.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I'm going to talk about James Katie Nemon. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And obviously they are the two. They were the two
first maiden speeches. Obviously that every party in government puts
up there. Two you know that there are two kind
of uh right, hopeful, bright young things. They're they're they're
great hopes of the future for the for the two
first maiden speeches. And these two were chosen by the
National Party. They were good choices by Christopher Luxan. I
think James Meaga is a good and and Kadie Nemen
(34:41):
actually both of them good foils for Adam and Williams
and the labeor whorping operation in general. Obviously they're not
that's not their role and and and and National, but
they are good. I think they they're quite good at well,
they're they're quite good anti filibusters, if you know what
I mean, they were in the House whereas labor was
was was really trying to grind the government down, and
(35:02):
they were in the House trying to grind labor down,
you know. And I think like there are some moments
that the last last year in the House rose, you know,
that the labor could have fill the busters the week
wore on some of those nights and and they slightly
gave up. Yeah, we didn't quite get up, but I
didn't quite go as hard as they could have done.
So I think I think those two have done a
(35:23):
really good job.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
And Select Committee were Injustice sharing that and Keati Nimen
that that's going to be.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, so so yeah, I would say I would say
those two and that would be my last.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Should we do the ones that we think of performing
the worst.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Another podcast to me? Yeah, it's tough because you don't
see what happens behind this scene. Just because someone's quiet,
it doesn't mean they're bad, you know. Yeah, we get
a hell of a lot more listens, though, I think.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
If we probably listen to the end for the worst all,
if we could pay all of Jason, thank you very much,
have a wonderful time Japan.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Thank you. I'll bring you one of those fun flavored.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Kokkats, a fun flavored KitKat.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Japan, they have like hundreds of flavors of kok cats.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Okay, I will.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
There's also a Supreme Coffee very close to the New
Zealand Embassy in Tokyo. Yah got the Supreme actual Supreme Coffee.
It's very close to the embassy. It's like a little
New Zealand store.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'll bring you back some KitKat and some coffee.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, bring me bring me some of the worst Carbon
Miles coffee, some Supreme coffee back to Wellington. Thank you
for listen listening. Thanks to Jason obviously for coming on.
Thanks that Ethan Stills, our producer that was on the tiles.
We'll be back with more on the tiles next week.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
It will be more. I'm not sure what it will be,
but it will be.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You know it will be.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
We will be back. Thank you as always for the stake.
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